November 4, 2023 • 30 mins
In this episode, we explore the emotional turmoil of a cancer diagnosis intertwined with the complexities of parenthood. Join us as we journey from hospital beds to home, navigating guilt and embracing raw emotions. We share the strength found in connecting with others who understand our struggles. Your feedback and ratings are invaluable.
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Episode Transcript
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Caitlin (00:00):
Something to note.
We are not healthcare providersor professionals.
We are, however, two people whohave lived through a monumental
medical event and find comfortin sharing what worked for us
two others.
These are our experiences andare in no way meant to treat or
diagnose the general public.
Always listen to your body andalways listen to your doctor's
(00:22):
for guidance.
Alright, let's get into it.
Kevin (00:30):
I'm Caitlin Rouse and I'm Kevin Adams and we're going
through it.
Caitlin (00:44):
Hello podcast listeners .
I'm Caitlin Rouse and he isKevin Adams.
Welcome back to going throughit.
This is a podcast dedicated tohow we are unpacking a very
chaotic year together.
We are talking about cancerdiagnosis while pregnant, cancer
treatments, surgeries and nownew parenthood.
(01:05):
Something I found myselfthinking when listening to our
last episode and even the timein between then and now, was how
long does each stage of grieflast?
I want to share that grief isdifferent for every single
person.
There's no exact timeline toadhere to.
You may remain in one of thesestages of grief for months on
(01:28):
end, but maybe skip othersentirely.
That is completely fine, normaland absolutely typical.
It takes time to go through thegrieving process and, as I said
before, it looks different forevery person.
And, just to be as open andhonest as I possibly can be
right now sort of off script andraw and in this moment, just
(01:53):
talking about this is opening alot of wounds that I'm trying
desperately to close.
This was an incrediblytraumatic event to have lived
through and, although I'mgrateful to have lived through
it, it's hard to sit here andrelive and recount some of the
(02:15):
worst times of my life the worsttime.
So thank you for listening andthank you for remaining open and
gentle with me, regardless ofwhether you know me outside of
this podcast or not.
Knowing that this is a safespace and it's someplace that I
(02:36):
can come and talk and just beunapologetically myself is
really freeing.
So thank you.
Getting back into it now, I wasalso thinking is it possible to
repeat the stages of grief?
Not every single person canprocess these stages in a linear
(02:59):
way.
Somebody may have ups and downsand go from one stage to
another and then even circleback.
Not everyone will experienceall the stages of grief and you
may not go through them in order.
I, for example, feel like Ihopped around from shock and
(03:19):
denial to anger, to acceptanceand then back to denial Again.
There's no clear cut way thatthis is defined, but it's
important to recognize each oneso that when it comes up for you
(03:41):
and when it comes up for me,I'm able to recognize it, I'm
able to name it and call it, soI don't fall too deep down the
rabbit hole.
So here we are talking aboutcancer while pregnant, and pain
and guilt Feels kind of heavyright, and once that shock
(04:08):
started to fade, I think Ireally started to notice the
pain of this loss, a loss of somany fundamentals and factors of
my life.
The pain felt physical as wellas emotional.
(04:30):
I also started to feel guiltyabout some things I could have
done or should have donedifferently in my life, even
though now in retrospect I knowthat was a completely irrational
way to look at it Again, it wasa way for me to cope.
(04:52):
After my first treatment, thereality I was in.
My reality still hadn't quitesucked in.
The first treatment didn'tcause an immediate physical
effect on me, and it wasn'tuntil a couple of weeks
afterwards where I started tosee the physical deterioration
(05:14):
of my body that it finallystarted to sink in.
But before I go really deepinto that, I do want to
highlight what that firsttreatment was like for me.
So we hadn't received all ofour boxes and furniture yet from
the moving company, so we wereunable to move into our new
(05:35):
place.
When I went to sleep I feltrelatively fine after that first
treatment, but I woke up withone of the worst headaches I
think I've ever had in my life.
It felt like somebody orsomething had stripped every
last drop of water out of mybody and I was just this dry,
(05:58):
empty shell.
On top of that, I noticed a lotof wet in my underwear and
outside my leggings.
My first thought was Leo, okay,you weren't close by.
So I tried calling you for help, and I called you on the phone
over and over again, but I gotno response.
(06:20):
I finally peeled myself out ofbed and as soon as my feet hit
the floor, it felt like a ton ofbricks had been released onto
my head.
I tried to hold onto anythingaround me for support.
I managed to hold onto therailing of the steps for support
, while the other hand stayedfirmly pressed upon my belly.
As I got down the stairs, I sawyou outside unpacking some
(06:44):
stuff from the car.
You had just gotten there onlythe night before.
I just remember waddlingoutside down the path in front
of the house towards you, cryingbecause I was in so much pain,
holding my head and stillcradling my belly always holding
my belly.
Do you remember that?
Kevin (07:06):
I woke up before you did and I don't really sleep much
anyway, especially now and sothe car I had ridden up in was
literally packed full front toback and there was even a few
(07:30):
things on top, and I thought tomyself this looks ridiculous.
We're going to be here for awhile, and I know that the time
your father still had peoplecoming by going to the store.
So I was like, let me go takesome stuff down and also get
some things that I brought upfor you and I can unpack some
(07:50):
things and get settled beforeyou wake up.
I was trying to be quiet.
I left rather quickly and Iwent downstairs and went to the
car and started unhooking thingsfrom the roof.
I did not bring my phone.
I remember pulling some thingsout of the back of the car after
(08:11):
being out there for a while andthen looking up and now always,
always remember like this istattooed on my mind's eye and
we're looking up and seeing youand just the expression of so
(08:36):
much despair it broke my heartto the point where it just
scared the hell out of me.
I just wanted to pick you up andjust carry you and just hold
you out in the cold that morning, seven months pregnant, just to
(09:06):
spare, knowing that I couldn'thelp you.
And I remember just holding youand apologizing for leaving you
without telling you I was goingoutside and just letting you
know that I'm here and I'm notgoing anywhere.
And it's moments like that thatroute you in the ground, I
(09:33):
think, as someone who's I don'teven know if there's a term for
it, but just someone who's doingthis with you as a partner.
It's moments like that thatharden your resolve.
It's also moments like that,like I said, that scare the hell
out of you, because you realizehow much you live for this
(09:57):
person and if you lose them,there's no way to recover.
Caitlin (10:10):
It turns out, saying that ac chemo treatment takes a
hell of a lot out of you issaying it lightly.
This is the drug that will robyou of pretty much everything
that outwardly makes you you.
The side effects of this druginclude bladder irritation, red
or pink urine, diarrhea orconstipation, hair loss and when
(10:35):
I say hair loss I mean fullbody hair loss, low red and
white blood cell counts,menopausal state, mouth sores,
nail changes, nausea andvomiting, tiredness, skin
changes.
What are the long term sideeffects, you ask?
Well, those includecardiotoxicity, secondary
(10:59):
cancers, gastrointestinalproblems, neurological problems.
On this particular day, however, I learned that it truly does
strip you of any hydration.
But because my treatment wasexpedited to the same day of my
poor installation remember Isaid in that last episode I
(11:19):
missed the chemo class so cut tome, cry sobbing and so much
pain and really freaked out thatmy baby was also in as much
pain as I was in.
We called the doctor right awayand they wanted me to come in
to the oncology urgent care unit.
I would get to know this placeand its staff very well over the
(11:39):
course of this journey, but fornow I was in such a horrible
state I honestly didn't think Icould make it there.
Turns out, leo was fine.
My water hadn't broken, he wasstill moving and doing okay.
I, on the other hand, wasseverely dehydrated and just
needed a lot of rest.
We got back to the house and Iwas just completely exhausted.
(12:03):
This experience, doing thiswithout the comfort of our own
home and having to go back andforth from the hospital to my
dad's house, the house I grew upin it felt very hard.
Don't get me wrong.
My father and his partner weremore than wonderful, especially
(12:25):
to have a staying there duringsuch a crisis.
Having Leo now, I can't imaginehim growing up and having to
watch him suffer throughsomething like this, like my dad
watched me.
But there was a moment where Ithink it got very uncomfortable.
We were struggling because amoving company kept delaying
(12:48):
when our stuff would get there.
I had already gone through myfirst treatment and I really
didn't wanna have to go throughanother and not have my own
space or even time to set upLeo's space.
It was really frustrating.
I know that was weighing on youtoo, right?
Kevin (13:09):
Everything that I was witnessing was weighing on me.
To see you in that state and,at the same time, concerned
about just like you normally are, about everyone around you.
It really broke my heart andaway, specifically because I
(13:29):
knew it was necessary.
I remember thinking that I wishI could do more, when all I
could do in the moment was justhelp you through it.
But you are a constant.
You are the best diplomat I'veever met in my life, and so it
(13:53):
seemed like you were able tomake it work.
Caitlin (13:56):
I had to right, and I think that's it's so funny.
It's again, it's very kind ofyou to say that, but it's like
what's the alternative?
The alternative is to just turninto a cat and crawl under the
(14:17):
porch and just die, and I wasn'tgonna do that.
At one point my dad sat us downfor that very formal talk about
what could be done and what weshould do, and I know it was
more of a fact-findingbrainstorm talk, but I could see
(14:38):
how hurt you were after that.
That's when a big shift startedthere, because at the end of
the day, I know we were all inthis together, but it did start
to feel like fingers beingpointed and you messed up during
a time that you shouldn't have.
How can we fix it?
(15:00):
And that was not very positive.
Cut to about two or three weekslater, right after we had moved
in, and it finally happened.
I was running a couple fingersthrough my hair just to get a
small tangle out and the wholehandful of hair came out in my
(15:22):
hand.
That was a major moment for me.
It was this moment of holdingthe physical loss of what I was
enduring in my hands.
I pulled gently at other smallsections of my hair and I felt
every single hair detach fromthe follicle of my scalp
(15:46):
simultaneously.
I repeated this process overand over until I had a small
pile, really like a small stack,of my own hair on the armrest
of the couch.
I couldn't believe it Again,remember.
(16:08):
My denial was very strong.
So in my back pocket I washolding on hope that I was a
special case and that I wouldn'tbe affected by some of these
side effects.
Nope, here's the sign that I'mjust like everybody else and my
body is starting to fall apart.
(16:28):
It's starting to fall apartwith a small, tiny baby growing
inside me every day.
Enter pain, enter guilt.
Betterhelpcom goes on to definethe pain and guilt stage by
stating, quote during the stage,it is normal to seek reason and
(16:50):
wonder if you could have donesomething that would have
prevented the loss, or feelremorse for not being able to
make peace with a loved one ormaintain a healthy relationship.
Although these feelings canseem overwhelming, they are
natural emotions related togrief and part of the grief
model.
It is crucial to acknowledgethese emotions.
(17:12):
End quote.
I did often feel an immenseamount of why me, especially in
the first few months ofbeginning treatment and this
process, because no one in myfamily had ever experienced this
before.
I felt like my life and myexperiences were completely
(17:36):
excluded.
I started to wonder what couldhave caused this.
The problem was obviously me.
So what did I do so wrong?
I smoked when I was younger, butso did my mom and my dad, and
even my sister.
They don't have cancer.
So that wasn't it when I firststruck out on my own when I was
(18:02):
17 or 18,.
I was very poor.
I ate terrible food because itwas the cheapest option, but so
do a lot of Americans, and mostdon't develop breast cancer
while pregnant.
So it wasn't that I evenstarted to think.
Okay, I never wanted to bepregnant, maybe because of
(18:22):
living my entire life neverentertaining the idea and
somewhat shunning the ideaaltogether.
My body is now punishing me foractually becoming pregnant.
It turns out there never wasand there never will be a single
thing I can point to.
But the acceptance of that isvery hard because, as it turns
(18:45):
out, it's a lot easier to acceptwhen there is a tangible reason
you can point to and say it'sbecause of this.
When that doesn't appear, it'sa hell of a lot harder to accept
.
Hell, there are even still somepeople in my family that to this
day feel compelled to sharewith me their theories or their
ideologies on why this happenedto me.
Although none of these peopleare medical professionals in any
(19:09):
way, most of them lack verybasic, fundamental pieces of
evidence to substantiate theirclaims on these thoughts and
feelings, because, at the end ofthe day, that's exactly what
they are thoughts and feelings.
I am not responsible for thosethoughts and feelings.
I am definitely not beholden tolisten to those thoughts and
(19:29):
feelings.
Again, it's all looking forsomething to blame which,
ironically, some of thosetheories tend to almost always
center around me as theperpetrator.
You want to talk about some realpain and guilt to unpack there,
but that's another story foranother day.
(19:50):
More love.
The story is it's a lot easierto digest when there's something
to blame, when I'm asking andevery doctor on the cancer board
at Hopkins essentially isshrugging their shoulders saying
we don't know yet at whatencourageancy sells to divide an
alarming rate, it's easy toblame myself in the moment,
(20:17):
pivot a little bit and to give abrief glimmer of hope.
And all of this pain and guilt.
I would be remissed if I didn'tshare the night that Kevin
helped me shave my head.
Here I am.
I guess I was seven or eightmonths pregnant at that point.
Kevin (20:42):
You're magnificent.
Caitlin (20:50):
Here I am Magnificent, I guess he says, and having to
shave my head almost down to thescalp, I don't know, I would
say past shoulder length hair.
I guess I did everything thatyou're not supposed to do to
(21:15):
your hair I bleached it, Icolored it, I would flat iron it
, I blow dried it, I curled it,I did extensions.
I did everything.
Kevin (21:29):
I have extensions hanging up.
Caitlin (21:33):
That's not it Okay.
I always saw myself with hair,so already feeling enormous
because I'm pregnant and havingto shave my head just shaving my
head in general, I mean, itdoesn't matter if I'm pregnant
(21:53):
or not.
That makes it worse.
But that was a hard time.
That was not a fun night.
I think we laid down a bunch ofTrader Joe shopping bags that
we had cut open and just linedthem all over the bathroom floor
.
You came in to help me do theback of my head and it was
emotional.
I don't think I was emotionalin the moment, but later on I
(22:17):
definitely was Probably still inshock and denial.
Kevin (22:21):
I remember yeah, I would agree with that last comment,
because from the first littlestack of hairs that you pulled
out till the time when you wereready to actually cut it, I
remember talking to you abouteventually cutting it and you're
like, no, it's fine, just leaveit alone, it's fine.
And I think a day went by andthen I thought it was just going
(22:46):
to be two, three days, but Ithink the following day, like
that night, you were just in thebathroom and you just came into
the studio and you were like,okay, can you help me with this?
And I was like, oh, you went toit.
Now it's okay.
It was just, I don't know.
Through every one of thesestages, the only thing I can
relate to now is watching ourson learn words and learn to
(23:07):
communicate with us and learnhow to walk.
It's this thing that you knowis coming, and then suddenly
it's there and she just grabs on.
And I did my best to make surethat you had the space to go at
your own pace and to go with theflow, much like we do with Leo.
But it was always amazing tosee you grab on and just go on
(23:29):
the ride.
Caitlin (23:30):
Yeah, it's a fucking tower of terror.
Get on the ride.
Kevin (23:36):
It's like yeah it was like green dots.
Caitlin (23:39):
This is like dragging me, kicking and screaming the
entire time.
Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm not tryingto shove your analogy into the
dirt, but it's like.
Kevin (23:52):
It reminds me of when we went to Disney World and we went
on green dots like that for ayear and that was pretty awful.
Caitlin (23:59):
For all the listeners out there that don't know, I
have always had a lot of panicand anxiety in my life,
especially in things that I haveno control over.
Being on a ride, you think, oh,this is going to be fun, and
then it's just a two minute longpanic attack.
Kevin (24:18):
The most intense parts from what I saw.
I remember seeing you get offof that ride now that I think
about it, after we've gonethrough both of these things,
and being like yeah, that'sactually pretty accurate,
because you were crying andvomiting and I felt so awful for
even like just being in thevicinity, because you already
(24:40):
said that.
I mean, we both knew you gotmotion sick from time to time
and we didn't think it was goingto be that bad.
But it's green dots for gonesix.
It was awful, it was sohorrible.
I'm sorry.
I'm just sorry you had to gothrough that.
Caitlin (24:58):
The ride or the cancer.
Kevin (25:00):
Do you have to ask?
All right, we're getting offtrack.
Sorry, Track green guts Hold onto your butts.
Caitlin (25:12):
I was shaking my head.
It was traumatic, regardless ofwhat I was showing, how
traumatic it was in the moment,and so I think I had a good
shower cry once I got in theshower.
At that point you were niceenough to sweep up all the hair
and put away all the bags,whatever it was that we laid
down, and I took my time and gotout and I have my out of the
(25:36):
shower ritual.
So lots of coconut oil wasgoing through all of that, and
I'm trying to avoid looking atmy own reflection because I'm
just going to say it out loud.
I mean, I didn't think I lookedthat bad.
I actually can pull off a shavedhead pretty well.
I don't have any weird shapesor anything like that, but at
the time I got in traumatic so Iwas trying to avoid it.
(25:57):
So I get all dressed and I'mwalking out of the room and I'm
going to go tell you somethingand I hear you're in the other
bathroom.
So I'm walking to the bathroomand I turn the corner and your
head is shaved Like pretty muchalmost bald.
(26:18):
I didn't know that you weregoing to do that.
And just to really illustratethis for anybody else, Anybody
that doesn't know us.
Kevin (26:29):
Can you get some context?
Caitlin (26:30):
At that point you had grown your hair out for a long
time, like 15 years, right?
Kevin (26:38):
Just 13 years, yeah.
Caitlin (26:39):
You had locks down.
The longest ones were likepasture butt, yeah.
But to see you completely baldwhen the whole time that we've
been together, I mean I onlyknew you with longer hair.
So it was just a gesture that II mean I hadn't even asked to
(27:00):
make or I wasn't even thinkingabout that, and so just to see
that happen.
It was like this just a sign ofsupport that I wasn't prepared
for.
But it was like you didn't evenneed to say anything, right?
Just saying that was like thatwas huge.
Kevin (27:19):
Ask me if I miss my hair, please.
Caitlin (27:24):
Do you miss your hair?
Kevin (27:26):
All the time.
It helps me in a lot of wayskeep perspective on why I'm here
and really how unfathomablewhat you're going through is.
Yeah, my hair was an importantthing to me, but even in that
moment, I could still shrug andsay it's just hair, it'll grow
(27:47):
back, knowing that at some pointthey were going to take things
from you that you will never getback time, security, any kind
of peace of mind, parts of yourown identity, just being able to
live in the ignorant bliss thatis I'm going to wake up in the
morning.
(28:08):
So many things I miss.
Yeah, I miss my hair sometimes,but that thought also just helps
me, help me feel like I was animposter, like I wasn't just
some spectator that was livingnext door just trying to help
out, or somebody that is goingto be like it's going to be okay
(28:29):
, it's going to be fine.
It's just hair, it'll grow back.
It's just skin, it'll grow back.
You can't do that and it wassomething really, honestly, not
just for you, but it was for me.
It was me putting my armor onto let you know we're fighting
(28:50):
together, turns out, one of therequirements is you don't have
hair.
Check, check.
We're fighting together thedaily reminder for me and for
you, that we're fightingtogether.
Caitlin (29:09):
I love you very much.
Thank you so much for sayingthat.
I'll lighten the mood a littlebit, I will say turns out we
both look good, we're shavedheads.
So who knew?
As always, I really want totake a moment and acknowledge if
there are any listeners who arefacing anything remotely
(29:32):
similar to what I have, whatwe've gone through, please know
you are strong, you're graceful,you're so, so beautiful, even
when you don't feel like it,even when you look in that
(29:52):
mirror and you don't evenrecognize the person that's
staring back at you.
You are capable of fighting andbeating this and so much more.
If I can do this, you canabsolutely do this.
Thank you so much for listeningto Going Through it.
(30:14):
We will be back the week afternext to unpack a third stage of
grief, anger and bargaining.
If you've come across thispodcast and you know someone
else that could benefit from ourexperiences, please share it
with them.
If you'd also like to followour journey even more, subscribe
to our mailing list atwearegoingthroughitcom.
You can find us on Spotify,apple Podcast, amazon Music or
(30:37):
wherever it is you listen topodcast While you're there.
Please leave us your feedbackwith a comment and give us a
five-star review.
It really will help us.
We'll see you next Friday.
Something to note.
We are not healthcare providersor professionals.
We are, however, two people whohave lived through a monumental
medical event and find comfortin sharing what worked for us
two others.
These are our experiences andare in no way meant to treat or
diagnose the general public.
Always listen to your body andalways listen to your doctor's
(00:22):
for guidance.
Alright, let's get into it.
Kevin (00:30):
I'm Caitlin Rouse and I'm Kevin Adams and we're going
through it.
Caitlin (00:44):
Hello podcast listeners .
I'm Caitlin Rouse and he isKevin Adams.
Welcome back to going throughit.
This is a podcast dedicated tohow we are unpacking a very
chaotic year together.
We are talking about cancerdiagnosis while pregnant, cancer
treatments, surgeries and nownew parenthood.
(01:05):
Something I found myselfthinking when listening to our
last episode and even the timein between then and now, was how
long does each stage of grieflast?
I want to share that grief isdifferent for every single
person.
There's no exact timeline toadhere to.
You may remain in one of thesestages of grief for months on
(01:28):
end, but maybe skip othersentirely.
That is completely fine, normaland absolutely typical.
It takes time to go through thegrieving process and, as I said
before, it looks different forevery person.
And, just to be as open andhonest as I possibly can be
right now sort of off script andraw and in this moment, just
(01:53):
talking about this is opening alot of wounds that I'm trying
desperately to close.
This was an incrediblytraumatic event to have lived
through and, although I'mgrateful to have lived through
it, it's hard to sit here andrelive and recount some of the
(02:15):
worst times of my life the worsttime.
So thank you for listening andthank you for remaining open and
gentle with me, regardless ofwhether you know me outside of
this podcast or not.
Knowing that this is a safespace and it's someplace that I
(02:36):
can come and talk and just beunapologetically myself is
really freeing.
So thank you.
Getting back into it now, I wasalso thinking is it possible to
repeat the stages of grief?
Not every single person canprocess these stages in a linear
(02:59):
way.
Somebody may have ups and downsand go from one stage to
another and then even circleback.
Not everyone will experienceall the stages of grief and you
may not go through them in order.
I, for example, feel like Ihopped around from shock and
(03:19):
denial to anger, to acceptanceand then back to denial Again.
There's no clear cut way thatthis is defined, but it's
important to recognize each oneso that when it comes up for you
(03:41):
and when it comes up for me,I'm able to recognize it, I'm
able to name it and call it, soI don't fall too deep down the
rabbit hole.
So here we are talking aboutcancer while pregnant, and pain
and guilt Feels kind of heavyright, and once that shock
(04:08):
started to fade, I think Ireally started to notice the
pain of this loss, a loss of somany fundamentals and factors of
my life.
The pain felt physical as wellas emotional.
(04:30):
I also started to feel guiltyabout some things I could have
done or should have donedifferently in my life, even
though now in retrospect I knowthat was a completely irrational
way to look at it Again, it wasa way for me to cope.
(04:52):
After my first treatment, thereality I was in.
My reality still hadn't quitesucked in.
The first treatment didn'tcause an immediate physical
effect on me, and it wasn'tuntil a couple of weeks
afterwards where I started tosee the physical deterioration
(05:14):
of my body that it finallystarted to sink in.
But before I go really deepinto that, I do want to
highlight what that firsttreatment was like for me.
So we hadn't received all ofour boxes and furniture yet from
the moving company, so we wereunable to move into our new
(05:35):
place.
When I went to sleep I feltrelatively fine after that first
treatment, but I woke up withone of the worst headaches I
think I've ever had in my life.
It felt like somebody orsomething had stripped every
last drop of water out of mybody and I was just this dry,
(05:58):
empty shell.
On top of that, I noticed a lotof wet in my underwear and
outside my leggings.
My first thought was Leo, okay,you weren't close by.
So I tried calling you for help, and I called you on the phone
over and over again, but I gotno response.
(06:20):
I finally peeled myself out ofbed and as soon as my feet hit
the floor, it felt like a ton ofbricks had been released onto
my head.
I tried to hold onto anythingaround me for support.
I managed to hold onto therailing of the steps for support
, while the other hand stayedfirmly pressed upon my belly.
As I got down the stairs, I sawyou outside unpacking some
(06:44):
stuff from the car.
You had just gotten there onlythe night before.
I just remember waddlingoutside down the path in front
of the house towards you, cryingbecause I was in so much pain,
holding my head and stillcradling my belly always holding
my belly.
Do you remember that?
Kevin (07:06):
I woke up before you did and I don't really sleep much
anyway, especially now and sothe car I had ridden up in was
literally packed full front toback and there was even a few
(07:30):
things on top, and I thought tomyself this looks ridiculous.
We're going to be here for awhile, and I know that the time
your father still had peoplecoming by going to the store.
So I was like, let me go takesome stuff down and also get
some things that I brought upfor you and I can unpack some
(07:50):
things and get settled beforeyou wake up.
I was trying to be quiet.
I left rather quickly and Iwent downstairs and went to the
car and started unhooking thingsfrom the roof.
I did not bring my phone.
I remember pulling some thingsout of the back of the car after
(08:11):
being out there for a while andthen looking up and now always,
always remember like this istattooed on my mind's eye and
we're looking up and seeing youand just the expression of so
(08:36):
much despair it broke my heartto the point where it just
scared the hell out of me.
I just wanted to pick you up andjust carry you and just hold
you out in the cold that morning, seven months pregnant, just to
(09:06):
spare, knowing that I couldn'thelp you.
And I remember just holding youand apologizing for leaving you
without telling you I was goingoutside and just letting you
know that I'm here and I'm notgoing anywhere.
And it's moments like that thatroute you in the ground, I
(09:33):
think, as someone who's I don'teven know if there's a term for
it, but just someone who's doingthis with you as a partner.
It's moments like that thatharden your resolve.
It's also moments like that,like I said, that scare the hell
out of you, because you realizehow much you live for this
(09:57):
person and if you lose them,there's no way to recover.
Caitlin (10:10):
It turns out, saying that ac chemo treatment takes a
hell of a lot out of you issaying it lightly.
This is the drug that will robyou of pretty much everything
that outwardly makes you you.
The side effects of this druginclude bladder irritation, red
or pink urine, diarrhea orconstipation, hair loss and when
(10:35):
I say hair loss I mean fullbody hair loss, low red and
white blood cell counts,menopausal state, mouth sores,
nail changes, nausea andvomiting, tiredness, skin
changes.
What are the long term sideeffects, you ask?
Well, those includecardiotoxicity, secondary
(10:59):
cancers, gastrointestinalproblems, neurological problems.
On this particular day, however, I learned that it truly does
strip you of any hydration.
But because my treatment wasexpedited to the same day of my
poor installation remember Isaid in that last episode I
(11:19):
missed the chemo class so cut tome, cry sobbing and so much
pain and really freaked out thatmy baby was also in as much
pain as I was in.
We called the doctor right awayand they wanted me to come in
to the oncology urgent care unit.
I would get to know this placeand its staff very well over the
(11:39):
course of this journey, but fornow I was in such a horrible
state I honestly didn't think Icould make it there.
Turns out, leo was fine.
My water hadn't broken, he wasstill moving and doing okay.
I, on the other hand, wasseverely dehydrated and just
needed a lot of rest.
We got back to the house and Iwas just completely exhausted.
(12:03):
This experience, doing thiswithout the comfort of our own
home and having to go back andforth from the hospital to my
dad's house, the house I grew upin it felt very hard.
Don't get me wrong.
My father and his partner weremore than wonderful, especially
(12:25):
to have a staying there duringsuch a crisis.
Having Leo now, I can't imaginehim growing up and having to
watch him suffer throughsomething like this, like my dad
watched me.
But there was a moment where Ithink it got very uncomfortable.
We were struggling because amoving company kept delaying
(12:48):
when our stuff would get there.
I had already gone through myfirst treatment and I really
didn't wanna have to go throughanother and not have my own
space or even time to set upLeo's space.
It was really frustrating.
I know that was weighing on youtoo, right?
Kevin (13:09):
Everything that I was witnessing was weighing on me.
To see you in that state and,at the same time, concerned
about just like you normally are, about everyone around you.
It really broke my heart andaway, specifically because I
(13:29):
knew it was necessary.
I remember thinking that I wishI could do more, when all I
could do in the moment was justhelp you through it.
But you are a constant.
You are the best diplomat I'veever met in my life, and so it
(13:53):
seemed like you were able tomake it work.
Caitlin (13:56):
I had to right, and I think that's it's so funny.
It's again, it's very kind ofyou to say that, but it's like
what's the alternative?
The alternative is to just turninto a cat and crawl under the
(14:17):
porch and just die, and I wasn'tgonna do that.
At one point my dad sat us downfor that very formal talk about
what could be done and what weshould do, and I know it was
more of a fact-findingbrainstorm talk, but I could see
(14:38):
how hurt you were after that.
That's when a big shift startedthere, because at the end of
the day, I know we were all inthis together, but it did start
to feel like fingers beingpointed and you messed up during
a time that you shouldn't have.
How can we fix it?
(15:00):
And that was not very positive.
Cut to about two or three weekslater, right after we had moved
in, and it finally happened.
I was running a couple fingersthrough my hair just to get a
small tangle out and the wholehandful of hair came out in my
(15:22):
hand.
That was a major moment for me.
It was this moment of holdingthe physical loss of what I was
enduring in my hands.
I pulled gently at other smallsections of my hair and I felt
every single hair detach fromthe follicle of my scalp
(15:46):
simultaneously.
I repeated this process overand over until I had a small
pile, really like a small stack,of my own hair on the armrest
of the couch.
I couldn't believe it Again,remember.
(16:08):
My denial was very strong.
So in my back pocket I washolding on hope that I was a
special case and that I wouldn'tbe affected by some of these
side effects.
Nope, here's the sign that I'mjust like everybody else and my
body is starting to fall apart.
(16:28):
It's starting to fall apartwith a small, tiny baby growing
inside me every day.
Enter pain, enter guilt.
Betterhelpcom goes on to definethe pain and guilt stage by
stating, quote during the stage,it is normal to seek reason and
(16:50):
wonder if you could have donesomething that would have
prevented the loss, or feelremorse for not being able to
make peace with a loved one ormaintain a healthy relationship.
Although these feelings canseem overwhelming, they are
natural emotions related togrief and part of the grief
model.
It is crucial to acknowledgethese emotions.
(17:12):
End quote.
I did often feel an immenseamount of why me, especially in
the first few months ofbeginning treatment and this
process, because no one in myfamily had ever experienced this
before.
I felt like my life and myexperiences were completely
(17:36):
excluded.
I started to wonder what couldhave caused this.
The problem was obviously me.
So what did I do so wrong?
I smoked when I was younger, butso did my mom and my dad, and
even my sister.
They don't have cancer.
So that wasn't it when I firststruck out on my own when I was
(18:02):
17 or 18,.
I was very poor.
I ate terrible food because itwas the cheapest option, but so
do a lot of Americans, and mostdon't develop breast cancer
while pregnant.
So it wasn't that I evenstarted to think.
Okay, I never wanted to bepregnant, maybe because of
(18:22):
living my entire life neverentertaining the idea and
somewhat shunning the ideaaltogether.
My body is now punishing me foractually becoming pregnant.
It turns out there never wasand there never will be a single
thing I can point to.
But the acceptance of that isvery hard because, as it turns
(18:45):
out, it's a lot easier to acceptwhen there is a tangible reason
you can point to and say it'sbecause of this.
When that doesn't appear, it'sa hell of a lot harder to accept
.
Hell, there are even still somepeople in my family that to this
day feel compelled to sharewith me their theories or their
ideologies on why this happenedto me.
Although none of these peopleare medical professionals in any
(19:09):
way, most of them lack verybasic, fundamental pieces of
evidence to substantiate theirclaims on these thoughts and
feelings, because, at the end ofthe day, that's exactly what
they are thoughts and feelings.
I am not responsible for thosethoughts and feelings.
I am definitely not beholden tolisten to those thoughts and
(19:29):
feelings.
Again, it's all looking forsomething to blame which,
ironically, some of thosetheories tend to almost always
center around me as theperpetrator.
You want to talk about some realpain and guilt to unpack there,
but that's another story foranother day.
(19:50):
More love.
The story is it's a lot easierto digest when there's something
to blame, when I'm asking andevery doctor on the cancer board
at Hopkins essentially isshrugging their shoulders saying
we don't know yet at whatencourageancy sells to divide an
alarming rate, it's easy toblame myself in the moment,
(20:17):
pivot a little bit and to give abrief glimmer of hope.
And all of this pain and guilt.
I would be remissed if I didn'tshare the night that Kevin
helped me shave my head.
Here I am.
I guess I was seven or eightmonths pregnant at that point.
Kevin (20:42):
You're magnificent.
Caitlin (20:50):
Here I am Magnificent, I guess he says, and having to
shave my head almost down to thescalp, I don't know, I would
say past shoulder length hair.
I guess I did everything thatyou're not supposed to do to
(21:15):
your hair I bleached it, Icolored it, I would flat iron it
, I blow dried it, I curled it,I did extensions.
I did everything.
Kevin (21:29):
I have extensions hanging up.
Caitlin (21:33):
That's not it Okay.
I always saw myself with hair,so already feeling enormous
because I'm pregnant and havingto shave my head just shaving my
head in general, I mean, itdoesn't matter if I'm pregnant
(21:53):
or not.
That makes it worse.
But that was a hard time.
That was not a fun night.
I think we laid down a bunch ofTrader Joe shopping bags that
we had cut open and just linedthem all over the bathroom floor
.
You came in to help me do theback of my head and it was
emotional.
I don't think I was emotionalin the moment, but later on I
(22:17):
definitely was Probably still inshock and denial.
Kevin (22:21):
I remember yeah, I would agree with that last comment,
because from the first littlestack of hairs that you pulled
out till the time when you wereready to actually cut it, I
remember talking to you abouteventually cutting it and you're
like, no, it's fine, just leaveit alone, it's fine.
And I think a day went by andthen I thought it was just going
(22:46):
to be two, three days, but Ithink the following day, like
that night, you were just in thebathroom and you just came into
the studio and you were like,okay, can you help me with this?
And I was like, oh, you went toit.
Now it's okay.
It was just, I don't know.
Through every one of thesestages, the only thing I can
relate to now is watching ourson learn words and learn to
(23:07):
communicate with us and learnhow to walk.
It's this thing that you knowis coming, and then suddenly
it's there and she just grabs on.
And I did my best to make surethat you had the space to go at
your own pace and to go with theflow, much like we do with Leo.
But it was always amazing tosee you grab on and just go on
(23:29):
the ride.
Caitlin (23:30):
Yeah, it's a fucking tower of terror.
Get on the ride.
Kevin (23:36):
It's like yeah it was like green dots.
Caitlin (23:39):
This is like dragging me, kicking and screaming the
entire time.
Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm not tryingto shove your analogy into the
dirt, but it's like.
Kevin (23:52):
It reminds me of when we went to Disney World and we went
on green dots like that for ayear and that was pretty awful.
Caitlin (23:59):
For all the listeners out there that don't know, I
have always had a lot of panicand anxiety in my life,
especially in things that I haveno control over.
Being on a ride, you think, oh,this is going to be fun, and
then it's just a two minute longpanic attack.
Kevin (24:18):
The most intense parts from what I saw.
I remember seeing you get offof that ride now that I think
about it, after we've gonethrough both of these things,
and being like yeah, that'sactually pretty accurate,
because you were crying andvomiting and I felt so awful for
even like just being in thevicinity, because you already
(24:40):
said that.
I mean, we both knew you gotmotion sick from time to time
and we didn't think it was goingto be that bad.
But it's green dots for gonesix.
It was awful, it was sohorrible.
I'm sorry.
I'm just sorry you had to gothrough that.
Caitlin (24:58):
The ride or the cancer.
Kevin (25:00):
Do you have to ask?
All right, we're getting offtrack.
Sorry, Track green guts Hold onto your butts.
Caitlin (25:12):
I was shaking my head.
It was traumatic, regardless ofwhat I was showing, how
traumatic it was in the moment,and so I think I had a good
shower cry once I got in theshower.
At that point you were niceenough to sweep up all the hair
and put away all the bags,whatever it was that we laid
down, and I took my time and gotout and I have my out of the
(25:36):
shower ritual.
So lots of coconut oil wasgoing through all of that, and
I'm trying to avoid looking atmy own reflection because I'm
just going to say it out loud.
I mean, I didn't think I lookedthat bad.
I actually can pull off a shavedhead pretty well.
I don't have any weird shapesor anything like that, but at
the time I got in traumatic so Iwas trying to avoid it.
(25:57):
So I get all dressed and I'mwalking out of the room and I'm
going to go tell you somethingand I hear you're in the other
bathroom.
So I'm walking to the bathroomand I turn the corner and your
head is shaved Like pretty muchalmost bald.
(26:18):
I didn't know that you weregoing to do that.
And just to really illustratethis for anybody else, Anybody
that doesn't know us.
Kevin (26:29):
Can you get some context?
Caitlin (26:30):
At that point you had grown your hair out for a long
time, like 15 years, right?
Kevin (26:38):
Just 13 years, yeah.
Caitlin (26:39):
You had locks down.
The longest ones were likepasture butt, yeah.
But to see you completely baldwhen the whole time that we've
been together, I mean I onlyknew you with longer hair.
So it was just a gesture that II mean I hadn't even asked to
(27:00):
make or I wasn't even thinkingabout that, and so just to see
that happen.
It was like this just a sign ofsupport that I wasn't prepared
for.
But it was like you didn't evenneed to say anything, right?
Just saying that was like thatwas huge.
Kevin (27:19):
Ask me if I miss my hair, please.
Caitlin (27:24):
Do you miss your hair?
Kevin (27:26):
All the time.
It helps me in a lot of wayskeep perspective on why I'm here
and really how unfathomablewhat you're going through is.
Yeah, my hair was an importantthing to me, but even in that
moment, I could still shrug andsay it's just hair, it'll grow
(27:47):
back, knowing that at some pointthey were going to take things
from you that you will never getback time, security, any kind
of peace of mind, parts of yourown identity, just being able to
live in the ignorant bliss thatis I'm going to wake up in the
morning.
(28:08):
So many things I miss.
Yeah, I miss my hair sometimes,but that thought also just helps
me, help me feel like I was animposter, like I wasn't just
some spectator that was livingnext door just trying to help
out, or somebody that is goingto be like it's going to be okay
(28:29):
, it's going to be fine.
It's just hair, it'll grow back.
It's just skin, it'll grow back.
You can't do that and it wassomething really, honestly, not
just for you, but it was for me.
It was me putting my armor onto let you know we're fighting
(28:50):
together, turns out, one of therequirements is you don't have
hair.
Check, check.
We're fighting together thedaily reminder for me and for
you, that we're fightingtogether.
Caitlin (29:09):
I love you very much.
Thank you so much for sayingthat.
I'll lighten the mood a littlebit, I will say turns out we
both look good, we're shavedheads.
So who knew?
As always, I really want totake a moment and acknowledge if
there are any listeners who arefacing anything remotely
(29:32):
similar to what I have, whatwe've gone through, please know
you are strong, you're graceful,you're so, so beautiful, even
when you don't feel like it,even when you look in that
(29:52):
mirror and you don't evenrecognize the person that's
staring back at you.
You are capable of fighting andbeating this and so much more.
If I can do this, you canabsolutely do this.
Thank you so much for listeningto Going Through it.
(30:14):
We will be back the week afternext to unpack a third stage of
grief, anger and bargaining.
If you've come across thispodcast and you know someone
else that could benefit from ourexperiences, please share it
with them.
If you'd also like to followour journey even more, subscribe
to our mailing list atwearegoingthroughitcom.
You can find us on Spotify,apple Podcast, amazon Music or
(30:37):
wherever it is you listen topodcast While you're there.
Please leave us your feedbackwith a comment and give us a
five-star review.
It really will help us.
We'll see you next Friday.
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