May 10, 2023 • 58 mins
Carol hones in on the critically important parent-teacher relationship this week. She talks with expert educator and Co-CEO of Excellence Community Schools, Dr. Charlene Reid, about how teachers have fared over the past few years of educational tumult, and what teachers want parents to know to help children recover from the pandemic slide. They discuss the importance of having educators who represent, affirm, and uplift Black students, and the need to teach children not to view any low grades in school as an indication of their abilities, but as just useful information as they strive to master the material. Charlene draws upon her own experience as a teacher, principal, and mom to offer insights on how parents can strengthen the parent teacher relationship in order for all to work together for the best interests of the students. Follow us at @GroundControlParenting and on groundcontrolparenting.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to Ground Control Parenting, a blog and
now a podcast creative of parents raising black and brown children.
I'm the creator and your host, Carol Sutton Lewis. In
this podcast series, I talk with some really interesting people
about the job and the joy of parenting. So in
this podcast and on my blog, I've consistently talked about
the importance of parents connecting with and communicating well with
(00:26):
teachers throughout the school year. Today, I'm thrilled to continue
this conversation with an expert who spent years and years
helping students excel. Doctor Charlene Read Charlene Reid is the
co chief executive officer and founder of Excellence Community Schools,
also known as ECS, a charter school management organization overseeing
a high performing portfolio of kindergarten through eighth grade public
(00:49):
charter schools here in New York in the Bronx and
at Stamford, Connecticut. The ECS network currently serves over three
thousand students in twelve schools and will grow to fourteen
school over the next five years. Before her ECS role,
Doctor Reid was the principal and executive director at Bronx Excellence,
where she spearheaded the school's turnaround from the brink of closure.
(01:10):
She transformed Bronx Excellence from two thousand and eight to
twenty eleven, and in twenty twelve, the US Department of
Education distinguished the school with National Blue Ribbon recognition. Prior
to joining Bronx Excellence, Charlene serves as a teacher, assistant principal,
and principal in the Bronx Haarlem and South Los Angeles.
She earned a bachelor's degree in political science and a
(01:30):
master's degree in elementary education from UCLA, a master's degree
in educational leadership from Columbia University, and a doctorate in
Educational and organizational leadership from the University of Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Your penn Mayamamada.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Charlene lives in New Jersey with her husband, Dennison Junior,
and two children, Kennedy and Dennis. In the third Welcome
to Ground Control Parenting, Charlene.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I'm so happy to be here, so.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Happy to have you with us. I'm looking forward to
getting your perspective as a teacher and a minister straight
out a parent about how parents can best support their
children and help them thrive. So let's get started. So
I'd love to start with you your childhood.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Now.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I know that you grew up in northern California, Yes,
and where exactly?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
So I was born in Oakland, California, and also from
kindergarten through I'm using terms of schooling because that's how
I think. So from kindergarten through fifth grade, lived in Oakland,
and then my mother decided that we needed to move
(02:35):
to a suburb outside of Oakland. So we moved to
a town called Union City, and from there from twelve
years old, sixth grade through twelfth grade. And I have
a sister a younger, I'm the oldest. I have a
sister who's four years younger than I am, and my
brother is seven years oldest of three.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yes, yes, So tell me you're growing up there in Oakland.
How are your parents talking to you about education? How
are you feeling on the home front in terms of
what's expected of you?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
So I would say parents and my grandparents. So my
grandparents are from the South. My grandfather is from Arkansas,
and my grandmother was from New Orleans, from Louisiana, and
my great grandmother as well, and I kind of grew
up in that old school household where education is super important.
(03:35):
All my grandparents were HBCU graduates. My grandfather went to
Xavier in New Orleans and my grandmother went to Southern University,
and so it was super important all the time. It
was just an expectation that you're going to do well
in school, you're going to go to college, and you
are going to be a successful adult and also make
(03:57):
a difference in the world. And the same for my mother.
So when things weren't going the way that she wanted
them to go in Oakland, she chose a Blue Ribbon
school district and it was a challenge going from Oakland,
where majority of my teachers were black, to a suburb
where they were not and had to fight stereotypes. I
(04:22):
was placed in a remedial class, and when my mother
found out, she of course went ballistic and I had
to be tested. She was like, you didn't even look
at her her file to see that she's gifted and talented,
and have you talked to my child? Have you done anything?
You immediately just and they said this is what we
(04:42):
do when kids come from Oakland. Oh, we put them
in remedial classes.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
And they actually out loud, yeah, huh.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
I was sitting right in the office when they said it,
and they said, okay, we'll take her out remedial, we'll
put her in regular classes, but she has to test
into the Gifted and Talented program. So at the end
of the year in the library, I sat with three
people circling around me. Well, I took the test, and
(05:10):
then following year, for seventh grade, I was placed into
the G and T program, and then from seventh through
twelfth grade I was, as I know now, on that
track as an educator.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Wow, I just have to stop for a quick second
and say, this is not the first time that I
have heard of someone who was placed in a remedial
education classroom in elementary school incorrectly, who because of their parents' advocacy,
was able to get out and go on to hav
a top notch education. It's tragic. That's just a side
(05:42):
note to parents. This is just so much. The conversation
begins about how important it is to have parents focused
on what's happening.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Oh, well, I'm thank god your mother who got in there.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
And to switch that up, I want to dive a
little bit more into not only the teacher make up
for yours, but the student body makeup. I'm guessing that
your Oakland public school was predominantly black and brown.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Or predominantly black and brown and Asian specifically Chinese, and
Union City was majority white and Asian and a small
pocket of I guess Latino and Black students that were
kind of transplants from the city.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So, you know, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I noted that the first reference you made with respect
to makeup was the teaching population, that the teachers were
black in Oakland and they weren't as many black teachers
in Union City. How much of an impact do you
think that had on you versus how many people were
in the classroom with you.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Oh, it totally is the reason I am who I am.
My teachers were, I mean, they made us proud. We
would come to like my first grade teacher, we would
come into class, we would we would sing the Negro
National anthem, which I know by heart.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Everyone listening should all.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
And we would chant that we were queens and kings
and we could do anything and we can be anybody
we wanted to be. And it was kind of like
our kind of affirmation chant like as a six year old,
as a seven year old. So by the time I
moved to Union City, and I was being told that
(07:31):
I wasn't that person. There was no way that. I mean,
you can say it, but I don't believe it. I
felt like I can compete with anyone in the classroom,
like I'm gonna do well, and so everything else is
noise because I've already been brainwashed.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I don't know. I mean, I always say brainwash, but
it was.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
It was definitely an affirming, uplifting I remember my teachers
spending time with us during lunchtime and talking to us
about how great we were. And I remember, specifically in
fourth grade, my teachers saying our history did not start
with slavery. That was the first time I heard that
(08:13):
when I was when I was like eight years old,
and it always kind of stuck with me.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I'm thinking I had similar I grew up in New
York City public schools, went to public elementary school, predominantly
black student body and mostly black teaching body, and there
was so much about that experience I took for granted.
But now that you're saying this, I had teachers that
looked like me and that I.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Knew were rooting for me.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
I mean, I just knew it, and that's something that unfortunately,
a lot of students don't experience.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Independent of the.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Color of the teacher, a lot of the students don't
experience that. But more importantly, everything that you said a
parent could say to their child every day. I mean,
the affirmations can come from.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Home as well.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
But I have to smile as I listened to your
description and that you remember it so clearly that you
know that it made you.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Who you are today. I mean, that's that's powerful.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah. Now I know that you had a sports career
in there you so my question about that, I mean,
I'm sure you will try to be modest, but I'm
sure in order to have a sports career in college,
you were very good and kind of come on, come on,
you were king, you're a queen.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
You were told you're queen. You can say you were good. Yeah,
you were recruited U C l A. I mean, come on,
you're a track star.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
So my question about that is, at what point did
that become an important part of your educational experience and
how did you have to balance the sports work with
the school work.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
When we when we moved to Union City. You know,
typically when you're in those suburbs, sports are a big deal.
Parents get involved in recreation teams, and the schools have
all the resources in the world. And so I just
started playing sports in middle school volleyball, basketball, basketball actually
is my was my favorite sport. And started running track
(10:07):
in middle school, started running club track. And then when
I went to high school, it came down to are
you going to continue to play basketball? Are you going
to run track? By the ninth grade or tenth grade
running track, I got to travel a lot, so that
kind of helped me make the decision. And so how
did I balance it? My teachers in high school were
(10:28):
really supportive. I guess I can say this here. Athletes
sometime are considered protected in schools.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Protected class. Yeah, they're protected bringing glory to the school.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
So you know, my coaches were really involved making sure
that I was, you know, doing my work. I mean
I was motivated anyway, Like I didn't need it, but
it was just you know, I don't know, it was
just part of you were part of a group.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Were there any lessons of that?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
I mean, age, you managed to be very serious about
something that was not academic and clearly managed your academics
such that you could go on to academic glory beyond sports.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
It was an expectation in our home. Right, student, You're
a student first. My mom would be like, I could
care less about the sports. I want straight a's right.
When I didn't. One time I made a b it
was like the world was going to end, and.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
They said, we're not. We don't have tiger moms.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
We got our own brand of Tiger Mommy's exactly.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
It was, I don't know, like I've always been busy.
I mean to this day, I only get about four
or five hours of sleep and secret and so I
would go to practice, I would come home, I would eat,
and then I would study, and I would probably go
to bed at around between twelve and two, and then
(11:56):
I would wake up at five and I would run
and then I would get on a bus that would
take me to the other side of town because I
had to take the AP classes were the first period
before all the other students came to school, and so
I would get there at seven twenty and go to
first period, take the class, and then second period is
(12:19):
when everyone else came to school, and then school all
day and then practice and then go home. So it
was a very predictable routine. And I never broke my routine,
very similar to what I do now. You know, in
my world it was I'm an athlete. It was like
it's a job. This is my job, and I also
(12:39):
have a job to get good grades and do well
in school. I didn't do anything else. So in middle
school I was in student government and doing all these
other things. But by the time I got to high school,
it was just practice, track meets studying, study groups. If
I could, you know, make it, yeah, and that was it.
(13:02):
And it was I mean, the lessons that come out
of athletics for me also makes me who I am.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I always want to win.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
I'm super competitive, perseverance, the resistance. Like you lose a
race and then you're just like, okay, why did I
lose this race? What can I do better? And then
you go back and you train differently, you live weights,
you know, I need to eat differently. I wasn't hydrated,
you know, like you pick apart all the reasons why
you lost a race or why it didn't run a
(13:31):
certain time. And so it was that even in high school,
being able to just analyze, like my running and even
in school, if I got a ninety on a test,
I'm like, why did I miss these two questions like
why didn't I get this? And going back to my
teacher and saying, help me understand this. And so this
is constant cycle of reflection, but you know, continuing to
(13:54):
push yourself is kind of how I do things now
hasn't changed at all.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Okay, so this so I gotta just stop for a
minute and repeat this. I was not I mean, I
was not at all sports as my sports focused. But
what really resonates with what you just said is that
the beauty of being involved in highly competitive sports are
relatively early age is that, like you said, you have
to fail because of the volume, the amount of time
that you're doing this. Nobody wins every single race. I
(14:21):
mean you wouldn't, you'd stop trying. I mean, if there's
no motivation to do better, so you know how to fail,
and you do it enough time so that failing is
not traumatic, it's sort of part of the practice. And
then the immediate response to that, I mean, sure it's
not great. You want to win, you don't want to lose,
but you shake that off fairly quickly because you know
(14:42):
what you have to do next, and what you have
to do next, is sort of recalibrate, figure out. It
becomes not your failing, your internal something wrong. It's just
something that needs fixing. And that is such a I
say that because personally, because I excelled at school at
an early age and I was very motivated to do
(15:03):
very well. And it took me well into my school
experience to feel failure really strongly. And by that time
I personalized it. I was I felt like I was
something wrong with me because I had failed this test.
And so it's a big different. I mean, it's a
(15:23):
really I'm just saying this out loud because parents, the
importance of distinguishing that for.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Your kids as early as possible.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Like you, you know, because you fail at something or
don't do well, you got to do something about there's
something like your mother said, you got to come home
with AA.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I mean, that's the important thing.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
But figuring out how to do that is not some
soul searching thing that requires you to be different than
you are. It's just it's flying principles.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Figuring out what went wrong? Man, how old am I
having revelations?
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Anyway?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Sorry, I just had to take a minute.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
They're like, that's genius.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
With sports, you get immediate feedback.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yes, yes, which is.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Unlike I mean, well, I guess with school, you know,
you can take a test and write a grade, or
with sports.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
The difference is there, it is, And the difference is
it's sports. You have a momentous failure professional amateur, and
then you can come back next week and have a
momentous win and everybody remembers the win and it is
more impressed because you came back. The testing thing in
school is not that we should have that same perspective,
(16:28):
and we really don't.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
It's like a little bit in my school, a little.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Bit yeah, right, with you in charge, I'm sure they too.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Again, I mean with track and field too. You can
make a change in the next race. Absolutely in that
same meat. I love sports as a backdrop for education
and make sure the schools have athletics. My kids are athletes,
of course, but it does help, Like you learn fairly
early how to deal with success and failure. And as
(17:00):
my grandmother or my great grandmother, you used to say,
you can't win all the time. You know you're going
to lose some time. Yeah, and just and that's life.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
The sooner you get that that you are now see
now I'm thinking, shoot every parent and make sure their
child has some sports beginnings. It's very important. But anyway,
this is it just it certainly drives home the point
that teaching your kids about being comfortable in failure.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
You know, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I've talked with other guests about I'm not comfortable with
this sort of generic we should allow our children to
fail because to me, that means if your child is struggling,
you should let them struggle and figure out on their
own how to help themselves out of it. Now, there's
some value to that, but I also think as parents
we have a role in getting them in the position
(17:46):
where they can do better. But this definition of failing,
I mean, I like that. So I want to talk
to about teachers in twenty twenty three. Okay, so, as
we all know the pandemic, for parents to step into
the shoes of teachers during the pandemic, when they had
to in ways that they hadn't ever anticipated and couldn't
(18:07):
even imagine, it was making their heads explode. And I've
spent time on the podcast talking about how parents have coped,
but now to focus on how teachers coped because and
are still trying to cope. I mean, they are, in
many instances their first responders, because some of them had
to stay in school with the kids when individual school
districts decided to keep going, Can you just sort of
(18:29):
talk with me about how you led your schools through
this and help the teachers cope with all of the
changes that the pandemic required.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
So when the pandemic broke, you know, of course, none
of us knew it would be what it became, and
so we thought we would be out about two or
three weeks. We also had a spring break embedded in
that time, and so we're like, Okay, send the kids
home with some work, we'll come back. When we discovered
that that wasn't going to happen, we had to figure out, okay,
(19:03):
how are we going to educate the kids, And so
that first that spring we did something different kind of
we we met with all the staff and we said, okay,
that have families who are sick, I have kids who are sick.
I have family members who are passing away. EMS won't
come and pick them up and bring them the hospital.
(19:24):
The hospitals are overcrowded. I have families who work in
the hospitals. I was like, things are so crazy the
last thing I want to do is pretend like we're
teaching on a virtual screen right now. And the last
thing I want to do is try to pass out
thousands of laptops when most of my most of my
(19:45):
staff are they are from the community. So they were
going through it at the same time, like I didn't
have a staff that's outside. So some of them live
down the street from their schools. They know the families,
they know the kids, and so we were kind of
in this all together, and we I'm going.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
To interrupt just one second just to explain that your
school head of ninety nine percent or has a ninety
nine percent minority enrollment.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I mean it's a neighborhood school in the Bronx, Yes,
and so.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
We're talking about black and brown and Asian as well. Yeah,
students in the neighborhood. So so I wanted just to
say that because the teachers everyone is there are many
people that come from the community. So whatever is happening
to the student body community is also happening to the teachers.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Yes, yes, And so we decided that we were going
to give students assignments that they could do some asynchronous
kind of work. They could do it on their phones
and they.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Could benefit asynchronous for those of us who are.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Not that they're they're not.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
It's not live teaching, right what people experience when we
open schools back up and everybody was on zoom and
the teachers are lecturing and you have the little boxes
where kids are listening, and you know there are slide shows.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
And things like that. So you gave it to homework,
I mean we're.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Yeah, yeah, it was wor they could do handouts, they
could log into a software to complete assignments, but what
was most important. Students and families were divided in groups,
and we assigned every single staff member to a small
group to where they would check in every single day
(21:19):
and they were called well, we were doing wellness checks.
So they would get on the phone and talk to
the families, talk to the students. If the kids needed help,
they would tutor them. And so we took our entire staff,
so that meant everybody, even our custodians.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Even cafeteria workers.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Everybody had either you know, some people had maybe one
or two kids, some people had five or six or eight,
and it was their job every day to check in.
And this is how we discovered we could actually support
the families. So there was a tracker. It would come
back to us this particular family family member is really ill,
(22:04):
they can't leave, they don't have any food. So we
set up Groery, a grocery store initiative where families could
go and with and just going to the store get
groceries and it would be charged to us on a
credit account. We found out that families needed health care,
so we were It just turned into this big family
(22:27):
oriented education but social wellness kind of ecosystem to kind
of get us through the rest of the school year.
So March, April, May June, that's what we were doing
the entire time, and then once we got to the summer,
we had virtual arts programming for the kids. And then
(22:51):
that's when we got back. We came back in September
and our teachers went back and then we had the
hybrid instruction. We made it through and we took care
of staff members, we took care of families, and I
mean that time period, it was sixteen eighteen hour workdays.
I mean every single day, I mean seven days a week.
(23:14):
It was NonStop. It did not stop. I didn't take
a break.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
And you had a family, I mean all the people
that were doing those workdays.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Family. Yeah, my daughter stepped up to the plate. She
was in sixth grade and she kind of just took
care of her brother. They were fully remote and they
took care of each other because they knew we were working.
And then we were all I mean, our entire house
was four screens on all day and theirs would go
(23:47):
off at four, and you know, we would stay on
probably it depended eight nine o'clock. We were you know,
we were managing, working with doctors and hospitals and insurance.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Come.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
I mean, it was I remind people constantly because no
one wants to go back and remember how bad it was.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
It was.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
It was, it was, It was tough.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
You know, it's really important to remember how bad it
was for many reasons, and not the least of which
is what I want to talk about next, which is
the what people are calling the pandemic slide. I mean,
people are now up in arms about the loss of learning,
but if you remember how bad it was when there
was no vaccine, we were less focused on how our
children were being educated day to day, but really the
(24:33):
the wellness, the desire to stay well and both physically
and mentally had to be prioritized over the amount of
education of being poured into our children daily. So, yeah,
there's a gap, there's a slide, but it's sort of
like the winding and the I mean, you have to
acknowledge that it happened, You've analyzed that, you know why
(24:53):
it happened. It's not like everybody just stopped caring, but
it exists. I mean there's a there's a loss of learning.
Do you think that's generally and yours specifically are are
have had to sort of make new approaches to kind
of help help kids get back on track.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
I Mean the first thing that I think this entire year,
I've been having this conversation different with different constituents, different
groups of folks, and I've shared that we haven't allowed
ourselves ourselves any grace to kind of just sit and say, Okay,
let's think about what happened. Now, let's look at where
(25:33):
we are now, and let's deal with recovery and the
reality of what we have to do. And in terms
of parenting, I've had to tell parents there are gaps everywhere,
and so we know that they exist, and so let's
address the gaps, like, let's not pretend that they're not there.
(25:56):
So that's the first thing. Allow yourself grace, take a
breather and say, it's going to take at least three
years to fix some some it might not be, but
it's going to take some time. And know that it's
going to take time. And during that time you actually
have to be more vigilant and hands on, and you're
(26:19):
going to have to pull resources that you probably never had.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
To do before and are used before.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
And just understand that that's the reality and don't ignore
that it. You know, like, let's not pretend. So it's
difficult because it's completely different for every single child. There
are some kids who academically are like, are fine, like
a pandemic never happened. And then there are some kids
(26:49):
where you can actually see, you can see gaps like, Okay,
when the pandemic broke, you were a kindergartener. Now you're
a third grader, and in March, this curriculum is taught.
This curriculum is taught in April, and so now I
can even see as a third grader there's a gap.
But then this weird thing because you came back to
(27:10):
school in first grade, it kind of covered up a
little bit. But now that we're building in second and third,
now it's coming out again that you don't know this information,
that you didn't master it. So let's step back and say, okay,
I need to fill these things in from K. Once
I do that, then I can build the little parts
that are missing from first, and then I can build
(27:32):
on second, and then we're here at third. It's very difficult.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
It is.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
It is, But it goes back to again this sports analogy,
which I'm now obsessed with, in the sense that you
have a loss, you have this gap. But if your
focus is take the L, it's an L. Can't turn
make it a W.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
It's an L.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
But we are now putting steps into place. We're going
to figure out what we do to get ourselves in
the position of ultimately winning what you know, for some
people it's going to be you need to relearn how
to do this. And so many guests have talked about
the importance of mastery at an early age and how
much time has to be put in if parents can
(28:14):
let go of that sense of indignance that you sort
of it is. It shouldn't be. We all can admit
it shouldn't be. But it's no one's fault that it is,
and so we all have to be working together and
not pointing fingers. We have to sort of it's it's
going to be a challenge for everybody. So with all
(28:35):
that as the backdrop, again I said at the intro,
I always think about what parents need to do, what
parents wish teachers would say, and what they need to
do with teachers. But here we have for thinking about
the teachers. The teachers who like you, have their own
families that they are. Everybody's the same during the pandemic,
and they're dealing with their own families. They also have
their school families that they're working with. And now we're
(28:58):
all back. What kinds of things have you heard from
your teachers that they are that they find helpful for
parents to do in terms of engagement and in helping
their individual little kids, helping teachers figure out what their
particular child might need. I mean, is I always talk
(29:20):
about communication. I don't mean you can't speak for every teacher,
but I mean generally, is it a good idea for
parents to try to talk to teachers about where they
think their children are?
Speaker 3 (29:31):
And sort of yeah, yes, So the two way communication
is so important now than ever teachers. So parents need
to understand the teachers are frustrated too. They're exhausted. Some
(29:51):
might not even know where to begin. If they have
a large classroom, it can be difficult if they have
students that have challenges or gaps, and they don't know
where to begin. And then they're being driven by maybe
a prescribed kind of pacing calendar curriculum that they need
(30:11):
to to use to teach. And I mean, I could
just use an example of my schools. I've always said
I want teachers to teach. That hasn't changed. So we've
built in supports everywhere, Like we have a Family and
Community and Engagement team. Each campus has a family care aid. Yes,
(30:32):
I want you to communicate with the families, but I
don't want you to be the.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Person to try to figure out why a.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Child is homeless, or why a child it's food and secure,
or why this child doesn't have a school uniform on. Like, Yes,
raise the you know, bring it to someone's attention, but
I want.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
You just to teach, right.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
I want you to build relationships with scholars, and I
want you to teach like your hair is on fire,
because the work is actually harder than it's ever been before.
Like it's tough. And so what we've done is we've
hired more supports. We've tried our best to hire more
instructional staff. But I started to notice that if there
(31:14):
are things that we can take away administratively from teachers,
that that actually helps them focus with instruction. So we
created the Community Learning Partners, where again through those wellness checks,
I was hearing that I'm looking at the spreadsheets and
I see that everyone is losing their jobs. So I'm like,
(31:35):
come work in schools, like we need you here. We
have a job for you. And so all these I
guess transitional spaces I call them. We have folks there
to make copies, to take students to the bathroom, or
(31:56):
to participate in lunch do or to help grade a document,
or to upload something in the digital platform that we
use scan you know, documents. Uh, all the things that
teachers have done in the past. I said, let me
take this off your plate, because your teaching responsibility has
(32:20):
multiplied now like it's it's intensified. And so we have
over I think we have over sixty we call them
clps throughout all of our schools. That kind of help
in those spaces interesting to alleviate the pressure because I can't.
I can't alleviate the pressure of the reality that you
(32:40):
have to teach your.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Butt off right right right, You're going to have.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Different more differently able than normal.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
You've got gaps. Yeah, you want to close gaps.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Everybody wants the gaps to be closed.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
And yes, no, yeah, let's let's I mean something as
simple as you know, when teachers have to do you know,
they step out theirroom during transitions and they're doing hall monitoring,
something simple.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
It's just part of the job. You don't have to
do that.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Now, stay in your classroom, get things set up. Now
your time is actually spent on your craft. Not to
take it completely off your plate, but you know that
there's someone in that hallway. Now, there's someone in that space.
So we've just hired more folks to help because I
can't take away that the job is harder than it's
(33:28):
ever been before.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
We'll be right back after these messages. Welcome back to
the show. You know, this is a really interesting perspective
for parents to hear because parents are focused on first
the fact that they were with their kids a lot,
and so they didn't think about what teachers were doing
while they were with their kids a lot, and so
now that their kids are back in school, parents are
(33:52):
focused on what the teachers can do to help their children,
which is understandable. But I do think this conversation should
encourage parents to think about what teachers are dealing with
generally speaking.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
And that's not to say.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
That therefore you shouldn't try to communicate with a teacher,
or you shouldn't do anything that you need to do
for your child, that's right, but just not only think
about what the teacher is doing, but what the school
is doing.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
And if this actually.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Points more to how parents can get involved in the school.
I mean, you fortunately had a budget where you could
hire people, but there may be instances where parents can
through an association or just figure out how they can
be more helpful. I always encourage parents to get involved
in the school, and this is across the board, a
district school, a charter school, and independent school.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
I mean, you need to.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Be in there, part of the community, but maybe you're
in there now thinking a little bit about how to
make it a more supportive community for everybody. I mean,
not just to get your child through.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Well.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
I think teachers will now I'm going to get on
my soapbox.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
So the pandemic brought in technology in a way that
we've never had before in education, and now it has
become a nuisance. So for every scholar received two laptops,
(35:21):
they have one in school and they have one at home.
And you know, during the pandemic, it was so efficient
to communicate through Google classroom and to place you know,
upload the homework assignments and put the classroom lesson plans
and parents could you know, like everything was just we
were so connected. We're still kind of relying on that,
(35:46):
and it's in conflict with what's happening in reality in
the classroom. And so what I would encourage families is
to kind of take away the technology. What would help
us in schools and what would help teachers is to
kind of decrease this reliance on social media, cell phones,
(36:09):
the video games. And I would even say that I'm
guilty of it myself as a parent. I've gone cold
turkey with my kids. They don't have access to any technology.
You're guilty of it, meaning that it was so easy.
And what I started to observe in my own schools
(36:30):
is that the laptop has became babysitters. So it's like
I'm going to teach this lesson maybe for about fifteen minutes,
and then you're going to open up your laptop and
do independent work. That's not how it was before pre pandemic.
It was very much hands on instruction and guided instruction
and then we're going to do independent We're going to
(36:50):
do group work. Now everyone has a laptop sitting in
front of them, and then when they go home, they
have a laptop sitting in front of them. So what
has happened? We have less conversations. Kids don't even want
to pick up a book and actually read it like
a interesting because during the pandemic we had digital books, right,
(37:11):
so now it's just easier to have a digital book.
So like I got rid of all of our digital books.
I was like, nope, nope, We're going back to a
good old book. You on turn and flip some pages.
And I want to push families to do that at home.
Like how we're going to alleviate or erase these gaps.
(37:35):
We have to do double in triple time. Like so
I bring back the sports analogy. We would our coaches
would say, you're going to win because you're going to
outwork the next person. You're going to run an extra mile,
you are going to lift more weights, You're going to
(37:57):
do this, and because you worked harder, this is how
that's the formula. So for me, the way we're going
to get out of this is that parents have to
read with their kids every single day, like you just
you have to when they're younger, and then when they're
older they have to pick up. Like I tell my kids,
(38:19):
no a chapter, I want this book, complete it. But
then I also we have you know, I call our
nerdy family literature circles where we read classics.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Together, you and your husband and your kid.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Yeah, we're we We did to Kill a mocking Bird before.
I mean, we've done so many different and so now
we're I'm gearing them up for Tom Sawyer, which no
one's looking forward to that, but I'm gonna make it
exciting and you.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Will have very lots of interesting discussions about language, get
them ready for those college discussions about language and the
high school and college.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
And so like.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Our kids, not only they just need us more, they
need us in our life, in their lives. They when
they're on their phones and they're online they're in a
virtual world. They're in a space that's unregulated, it's unsupervised.
I remember my mom saying, you're not going to take
(39:21):
the advice of your stupid friends that are the same
age as you, that don't know anything just like you.
So like you have to, like, I know your peers matter.
She's like, I know your friends matter, but you guys
are the same. You're the blind leading to blind, right,
And like now I laugh because I'm.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Like, yes, that's exactly.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Like and so, but now we've allowed them to go
into a virtual space that's worse than your group of
friends that are in school. Now you can be in
a space where you think you're talking to a kid
and it's not. It's an avatar of an adult or
a teenager or a bot is unsupervised and they're just
(40:00):
out there to try to figure it out on their own, right, right, Like, yes,
there's some aspect or point where they are going to
be exposed to that, but we can control some of that.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
And to your point, I mean, these issues about the
potential dangers of tech existed pre pandemic, for sure, but
the combination of the required focus on technology during the
pandemic and its continuation. To your point, we have to
look at it in the context of.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
The bigger picture. And the bigger picture is we've.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Had a gap, everybody's had a loss, and we have
to do something different. So while the advice to step
away from all this stuff is advice that's been given before,
I think parents.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Should hear it a little differently now.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
It's sort of it's not like because there have been
some studies that shown that children's focus on social media
while they were in the midst of the pandemic was
helpful because they found outlets and they found social groups
and so. But now things are different. Now we can
interact with one another. And for younger family with younger kids,
they're finding the challenges of encouraging their children to interact
upon another since they even have that in the early
(41:06):
years of socialization were thrown out the window. But the
point is that we have to think about things that
we do almost instinctively differently now and we do have
to step away from the things, even though it's hard.
I mean it's hard, it's hard as a parent.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
It's hard.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Oh my god, it's challenging.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
It's hard.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
You feel guilty you're like, these are their friend groups.
I don't know what to do, but we need to
get our children back and we have to support the schools.
So if you're let's just say a kindergartener, first grade parent,
you come home, you've worked all day and you know
your child has homework they can do kind of do
(41:47):
on their own, and before they go to bed or
while you're making dinner or whatever it is, they're on
an iPad until they go to bed, Like take away
that time just fifteen ten or fifteen minutes and let's
just have a discussion, even if you're exhausted, talk about
(42:07):
current events. Talk, you know, pull out a book let
the child read.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
To you, I mean your five year six year old,
whatever you're doing to like get ready for the rest
of the evening.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
They can help. They can help you.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
They can and this is where and it is super
it's super important in middle and high school as well.
The kids want to talk and they're going to find
that space when they can talk to you. But if
everyone's online and so what it does too it also
requires the adults to get off right right because we're
just as kind of addicted to our phones and to
(42:40):
our laptops and everything, and so there's a huge shift,
and we can make that shift. It's going to help
in the schools, you know, like make sure your child
is doing their homework, because that's helpful if you know,
it's nothing like for a teacher to plan and work
so hard and then the kids come back the next
day and only half of the class has completed their homework.
(43:02):
And so now now I got two different groups. So
now I'm working with the kids who did it and
had questions or mastered it, and now working with the
kids it didn't even do it and don't even know
where to begin with them. So I'm gonna so now
you've created a different type of instructional kind of model
in that classroom because now that assignment wasn't completed.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
So and that's where the communication really helps, because certainly
you know your five or six year old is doing
the homework or not doing their homework, but you're middle
school or you're a high schooler, you.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Send them off.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
They're sitting by themselves with tech or without doing the stuff,
and you don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
The communication helps because say.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
You think your child's doing their homework and they're not
turning anything in either because they actually aren't doing it,
or they're being absent minded and they left at home
or whatever. If you're talking, if you're communicating with the
teacher or someone in the classroom setting, you at least know,
I mean, you have to. Parents have to pay a
little bit closer attention to the process.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
Well, one of the good byproducts of the pandemic is
like now everyone well it seems everyone that I know,
they're grades, Like we all have these now systems and
portals where parents can log in and teachers are still
assigning their assignments or in these systems, so you can
go in and see if your child, you know, you
can ask your child you're doing your homework? Yes, the
(44:27):
next day you can go into the portal and see
no you didn't, or yes you did, right.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
And so, and parents have access to the portal yes.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Yeah, so, and again I'm referring to my schools and
some of my colleagues that I know have these systems
in place where you actually can go in and check,
like you have a password, you can go in and
see you're following your kids' grades.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
That's really important. And if your school parents check right now,
because you definitely need. You don't need to share that
information with your kid how often you're checking, but you
should definitely have access to that. That's really helpful. Two
reasons why that's helpful. First of all, most import and
you can see if your child's doing the work. And secondly,
you can have whatever emotional experience that you're having with
this not if it's not going where you want.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
On your own.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
And then you can focus on talking to your child
in a more productive way as opposed to just sort
of losing it when you find out that they're not.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Doing what they want. So, yeah, that's really helpful. So good.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
So parents do have a way of staying involved and
I mean staying connected to what's.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Going on in school.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Yes, yeah, that was one good thing from the pandemic,
being able to communicate that way. But then you have
just the old fashioned way of sending an email, some
teachers texting old old fashioned ways to show up right
and be there and arrival, dismissal, schedule a.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Meeting and in that meeting early on if you can
schedule earl on, which is a good idea. It's good.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
I did find out from the.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Teacher what is their method of prefering communication, because you
could be a texter and they could be an emailer.
And since they are, all these options get on the
same page. Page gets in the same part of cyberspace,
so that you because you want to start out as allies,
I mean you want to remain allies.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
I mean you partners, real partners, you really are, and
now more so than ever.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
And it's it's good for everybody to begin with that
perspective because you know, sometimes things get tough. Sometimes parents
don't want to hear what the teacher is saying and
or or or lose their patience with the teacher. It
could get rocky. You want to start from a perspective
of we're all on the same page, so that you
can return to that if things get you know, if
(46:36):
you're feeling frustrated on both sides, if the parents be helpful,
I imagine for the teachers to know, here's somebody who
really cares. Oh it's fraught, but so so okay. So
now I'm asking you to sort of and of course
you're not referring to your school specifically, but just generally speaking,
are there any kind of parent behaviors that teachers would
(46:58):
like parents to know are not effective? At all, Like,
what is it that doesn't work?
Speaker 3 (47:05):
Probably what drives I think all educators crazy is like
the immediate escalation. So it's like, I'm not going to
talk to you about the problem that took place with you.
I'm just gonna immediately go.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
To your supervisor.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
I'm gonna go to the person above, which I always
tell folks that's just gonna take more time because now
the person that you went to has to go and
do an investigation and find out what's going on and
talk to that person. And so first address the concern
with the party that you have a problem with, like
it's a pet peeve of mine as well. I think
(47:45):
also this work is so hard, like it's a social
justice issue for me, and I'm gonna do everything I
can to fight for children that are not my own
children that I gave for like, but I'm going to
treat them as such. They are my children from the
first day I stepped in the classroom till today. Any
(48:07):
child that has cross my pathway as a teacher, as
an assistant principal, a leader, as a systems leader, all
the children are my children. I never other the kids.
And so let's talk first and don't blame and don't like,
let's give benefit of the doubt. I think everyone's like
(48:29):
you know, like concerned about their children and their lives
and the trajectory that the children are going to take.
And some families have like said, you know, my kids
are behind and I really need help. But immediately they
go to accuse and you're not doing this and I
didn't get this from you, and why is this happening
when it's just like, can we talk first, like everything
(48:52):
doesn't have to be so stressful, like everything doesn't have
to be like a five alarm fire, Like let's talk, right,
and then I can tell you why I made this decision,
or I can tell you no, that's not true, like
let's let's let's let's talk because I'm here for you.
We have a we have family chats when families enter
(49:14):
the schools and we say parents are the first teachers, right,
we're number two. So this is your child and we're
going to do this together. And I'm committed to that.
That's a guarantee. And so remember that even when you're upset, right,
even when you have concerns like I'm here because I
(49:35):
want to be here and I love your child. I
want them to win. So let's let's let's let's figure
this out. Even if you know, because that's what families do.
We don't always agree, but we're family, right, and so
we got to get through this because we have to
keep our eye on the prize exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
All the more reason for parents to connect with the
teacher in person, preferentially early days, because what you've described
requires a trust factor between the parent and the teacher.
You have to believe that this teacher has your child's
best interest. I mean, generally speaking, you would think that
they would, but you need to have that feeling. I mean,
because Goodness knows, you have teachers that you connect with,
(50:16):
your teachers you don't connect with. And it's even more
important if it's a teacher you don't connect with, because
you need to understand how you're going to make that
connection and if for whatever reason you can't do that, how.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
You're going to manage around that.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
And I don't mean by going to a superior, but
I mean just understanding how are you going to become
allies because you have to to help your child. While
optimally every parent's going to have that experience with a
teacher who really does care. They're going to be disconnects
and so you know, you have to figure out how
to make it work. The most important thing is that
it's to your points a family. Not everybody has to
(50:49):
get along with everybody, but they all have to. They
have to be together and they have to make things happen.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Wow, respectful too, right, right? Like if you start off
as respect is your base and the communication is gonna
it's gonna work. But if you start off where it's
it's my job and also helping parents understand advocacy and
what that looks like. You know, like I tell I've
(51:14):
told parents before, you're not gonna yell and curse at me.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
Right.
Speaker 3 (51:19):
I understand that you are very excited and you're upset
about this, but I'm talking this way because I need
for you to calm down. You know, do we need
to talk at another time? Do you you know, whatever
the situation is, it's it's a level of respect. Like
I'm going to respect you, You're gonna respect me. And
(51:40):
I think if if you start off there, you can
solve any.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Problem absolutely well.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
You know, this has been so great, I thought i'd
have to start this conversation about what teachers and parents
should know, and that there'd be this laundry list of things.
But what has come out of this is even better.
It's organic, and hopefully parents listening will understand that how
complicated this all is and how it can't be reduced
to sort of do this, this and this for the
(52:09):
magic formula. But the biggest takeaways are I love that
you started out by saying we should give each other grace,
because I think we forget that grace is so important
across the board.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
I'm so happy.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
I could continue so many different conversations with you, but
I'm going to stop right now for this podcast episode.
But before we go, I'm going to ask you to
play the GCP Lightning Round. Yay. So now take off
your School Administrative Principles Extraordinary hat and put on your
(52:44):
mom hat, because that's what the four questions of the
DCP Lightning Round are, and the first question is well, first,
before I even died in the questions, I'm sorry. I
should have thanked you profusely because I thank you so
much joining me, and I really really appreciate all that
you all the wisdom that you've imparted. I mean, shoot,
(53:05):
I've been educated. I was like the light bulbs going
off at my head. And I don't have any more
children to educate. So if I feel this way, people
listening must really be excited. But okay, so I thank you,
and now let's play the game. And the first question
is what is your favorite poem or saying?
Speaker 3 (53:24):
So, my favorite poem is Ego Tripping by Nikki Giovanni.
A teacher played that for me in a black history
class that I had in high school, and of course
we had a copy of the poem written and I
just thought it was so powerful. I mean, each stanza
(53:48):
ended with you know, I am a beautiful woman. I'm black,
and it was just the metaphors and just the connection
to who we are. It just connected to you know,
those classes where I was told I was a queen
and you can do anything. So always love that poem.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
Tell me now your favorite two children's books, And I'm
asking for two because you can give me one that
you loved growing up and one that your kids loved,
or two that two of in either category.
Speaker 3 (54:19):
So my favorite books growing up. I know everyone says this,
but I love the Doctor Seuss books.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
Well there's a reason everybody says it, because they're amazing.
Speaker 3 (54:32):
Yes, and I which brings conflict now that I know more, right,
But I had these little board books and by the
time I was three, I was like, I can read,
But now I know I was just memorizing words. But
because of the the phonics patterns, you are learning blending
(54:56):
and sounds. And now that I know as an educator
what was happening, it's just amazing. And I did the
same thing with my children. But my favorite, favorite, actual
favorite book growing up was the Story of My Life
Helen Keller, and I have actually have a first edition
copy of the book. Love it, love it, love it.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
It's an amazing story. So wow, that's a great answer.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
That's a first.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
Many people said doctor Seuss, but no one has said
Ellen Keller. And then two mom questions. First a mom
moment that you'd love to do over, and then one
where you nailed it as a mom, meaning like you
did it the best way possible.
Speaker 3 (55:37):
Let's see, I kept I probably kept my daughter in
the public school where we lived probably a year or
two long. It's always a regret that I have because
I was just trying to figure out what it's like
to be part of a public school community. And I
(55:58):
want to be involved, and it's what we do in
this town. And I'm going to like, I'm an educator,
I'm going to i'm going to be on the board,
I'm going to help, I'm going to do this. And
it was in direct conflict with what my kids were
doing in my own schools. Interesting, and once in Charlow
was changed and I was able to have preference to
(56:18):
bring my child into the school. I always look back
and say, I waited a year too.
Speaker 1 (56:25):
Long, Okay, so give me a nailed it moment, and.
Speaker 2 (56:29):
I nailed it moment.
Speaker 3 (56:33):
So my husband and I are both in education, and
you know, we've given so much to, like I said,
other people's children, and it's just our life work and
our passion that we always say, are we doing the
right things with our kids? And I'm always happy when
I hear from other people about how our kids describe
(56:55):
us and what we do. And so hearing my son say,
you know, yeah, they didn't do this with us, because
I know that they were working really hard with this
other family. Interesting and my daughter sharing during an interview
we're going through the independent school process that she she
(57:20):
knows we're really busy, but she gets that the work
we're doing is driven by something bigger than all of us,
but we still manage to make her and a brother
our priority. I have my parent interview and for them
to tell me that we need for you to know
what she said, Wow, And I'm like, oh my god,
they're actually really looking at us all the time and
(57:42):
seeing what we're doing. And so I just feel like
I'm in this space and I never want my kids
to grow up and say you cared about those other
kids than me. But I think they get it, and
so that that's a win for amazing.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
It is an absolute wins, a great story. So I
thank you again so much for coming and sharing with us.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
Thank you so much, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (58:08):
I hope everyone listening enjoyed this conversation and that you'll
come back for more. Please rate, review, and subscribe wherever
you listen to podcasts and tell your friends. For more
parenting info and advice, please check out the Ground Control
Parenting blog at groundcontrolparenting dot com. You can also find
us on Instagram and Facebook at ground Control Parenting and
(58:28):
on LinkedIn under Carol Sutton Lewis The ground Control Parenting
with Carol Sutton Lewis Podcast is a part of the
Seneca Women Podcast Network in partnership with iHeartMedia. Until the
next time, take care and thanks for listening.
Hello, and welcome to Ground Control Parenting, a blog and
now a podcast creative of parents raising black and brown children.
I'm the creator and your host, Carol Sutton Lewis. In
this podcast series, I talk with some really interesting people
about the job and the joy of parenting. So in
this podcast and on my blog, I've consistently talked about
the importance of parents connecting with and communicating well with
(00:26):
teachers throughout the school year. Today, I'm thrilled to continue
this conversation with an expert who spent years and years
helping students excel. Doctor Charlene Read Charlene Reid is the
co chief executive officer and founder of Excellence Community Schools,
also known as ECS, a charter school management organization overseeing
a high performing portfolio of kindergarten through eighth grade public
(00:49):
charter schools here in New York in the Bronx and
at Stamford, Connecticut. The ECS network currently serves over three
thousand students in twelve schools and will grow to fourteen
school over the next five years. Before her ECS role,
Doctor Reid was the principal and executive director at Bronx Excellence,
where she spearheaded the school's turnaround from the brink of closure.
(01:10):
She transformed Bronx Excellence from two thousand and eight to
twenty eleven, and in twenty twelve, the US Department of
Education distinguished the school with National Blue Ribbon recognition. Prior
to joining Bronx Excellence, Charlene serves as a teacher, assistant principal,
and principal in the Bronx Haarlem and South Los Angeles.
She earned a bachelor's degree in political science and a
(01:30):
master's degree in elementary education from UCLA, a master's degree
in educational leadership from Columbia University, and a doctorate in
Educational and organizational leadership from the University of Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Your penn Mayamamada.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Charlene lives in New Jersey with her husband, Dennison Junior,
and two children, Kennedy and Dennis. In the third Welcome
to Ground Control Parenting, Charlene.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I'm so happy to be here, so.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Happy to have you with us. I'm looking forward to
getting your perspective as a teacher and a minister straight
out a parent about how parents can best support their
children and help them thrive. So let's get started. So
I'd love to start with you your childhood.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Now.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I know that you grew up in northern California, Yes,
and where exactly?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
So I was born in Oakland, California, and also from
kindergarten through I'm using terms of schooling because that's how
I think. So from kindergarten through fifth grade, lived in Oakland,
and then my mother decided that we needed to move
(02:35):
to a suburb outside of Oakland. So we moved to
a town called Union City, and from there from twelve
years old, sixth grade through twelfth grade. And I have
a sister a younger, I'm the oldest. I have a
sister who's four years younger than I am, and my
brother is seven years oldest of three.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yes, yes, So tell me you're growing up there in Oakland.
How are your parents talking to you about education? How
are you feeling on the home front in terms of
what's expected of you?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
So I would say parents and my grandparents. So my
grandparents are from the South. My grandfather is from Arkansas,
and my grandmother was from New Orleans, from Louisiana, and
my great grandmother as well, and I kind of grew
up in that old school household where education is super important.
(03:35):
All my grandparents were HBCU graduates. My grandfather went to
Xavier in New Orleans and my grandmother went to Southern University,
and so it was super important all the time. It
was just an expectation that you're going to do well
in school, you're going to go to college, and you
are going to be a successful adult and also make
(03:57):
a difference in the world. And the same for my mother.
So when things weren't going the way that she wanted
them to go in Oakland, she chose a Blue Ribbon
school district and it was a challenge going from Oakland,
where majority of my teachers were black, to a suburb
where they were not and had to fight stereotypes. I
(04:22):
was placed in a remedial class, and when my mother
found out, she of course went ballistic and I had
to be tested. She was like, you didn't even look
at her her file to see that she's gifted and talented,
and have you talked to my child? Have you done anything?
You immediately just and they said this is what we
(04:42):
do when kids come from Oakland. Oh, we put them
in remedial classes.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
And they actually out loud, yeah, huh.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
I was sitting right in the office when they said it,
and they said, okay, we'll take her out remedial, we'll
put her in regular classes, but she has to test
into the Gifted and Talented program. So at the end
of the year in the library, I sat with three
people circling around me. Well, I took the test, and
(05:10):
then following year, for seventh grade, I was placed into
the G and T program, and then from seventh through
twelfth grade I was, as I know now, on that
track as an educator.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Wow, I just have to stop for a quick second
and say, this is not the first time that I
have heard of someone who was placed in a remedial
education classroom in elementary school incorrectly, who because of their parents' advocacy,
was able to get out and go on to hav
a top notch education. It's tragic. That's just a side
(05:42):
note to parents. This is just so much. The conversation
begins about how important it is to have parents focused
on what's happening.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Oh, well, I'm thank god your mother who got in there.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
And to switch that up, I want to dive a
little bit more into not only the teacher make up
for yours, but the student body makeup. I'm guessing that
your Oakland public school was predominantly black and brown.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Or predominantly black and brown and Asian specifically Chinese, and
Union City was majority white and Asian and a small
pocket of I guess Latino and Black students that were
kind of transplants from the city.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So, you know, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I noted that the first reference you made with respect
to makeup was the teaching population, that the teachers were
black in Oakland and they weren't as many black teachers
in Union City. How much of an impact do you
think that had on you versus how many people were
in the classroom with you.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Oh, it totally is the reason I am who I am.
My teachers were, I mean, they made us proud. We
would come to like my first grade teacher, we would
come into class, we would we would sing the Negro
National anthem, which I know by heart.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Everyone listening should all.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
And we would chant that we were queens and kings
and we could do anything and we can be anybody
we wanted to be. And it was kind of like
our kind of affirmation chant like as a six year old,
as a seven year old. So by the time I
moved to Union City, and I was being told that
(07:31):
I wasn't that person. There was no way that. I mean,
you can say it, but I don't believe it. I
felt like I can compete with anyone in the classroom,
like I'm gonna do well, and so everything else is
noise because I've already been brainwashed.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I don't know. I mean, I always say brainwash, but
it was.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
It was definitely an affirming, uplifting I remember my teachers
spending time with us during lunchtime and talking to us
about how great we were. And I remember, specifically in
fourth grade, my teachers saying our history did not start
with slavery. That was the first time I heard that
(08:13):
when I was when I was like eight years old,
and it always kind of stuck with me.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I'm thinking I had similar I grew up in New
York City public schools, went to public elementary school, predominantly
black student body and mostly black teaching body, and there
was so much about that experience I took for granted.
But now that you're saying this, I had teachers that
looked like me and that I.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Knew were rooting for me.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
I mean, I just knew it, and that's something that unfortunately,
a lot of students don't experience.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Independent of the.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Color of the teacher, a lot of the students don't
experience that. But more importantly, everything that you said a
parent could say to their child every day. I mean,
the affirmations can come from.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Home as well.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
But I have to smile as I listened to your
description and that you remember it so clearly that you
know that it made you.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Who you are today. I mean, that's that's powerful.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah. Now I know that you had a sports career
in there you so my question about that, I mean,
I'm sure you will try to be modest, but I'm
sure in order to have a sports career in college,
you were very good and kind of come on, come on,
you were king, you're a queen.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
You were told you're queen. You can say you were good. Yeah,
you were recruited U C l A. I mean, come on,
you're a track star.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
So my question about that is, at what point did
that become an important part of your educational experience and
how did you have to balance the sports work with
the school work.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
When we when we moved to Union City. You know,
typically when you're in those suburbs, sports are a big deal.
Parents get involved in recreation teams, and the schools have
all the resources in the world. And so I just
started playing sports in middle school volleyball, basketball, basketball actually
is my was my favorite sport. And started running track
(10:07):
in middle school, started running club track. And then when
I went to high school, it came down to are
you going to continue to play basketball? Are you going
to run track? By the ninth grade or tenth grade
running track, I got to travel a lot, so that
kind of helped me make the decision. And so how
did I balance it? My teachers in high school were
(10:28):
really supportive. I guess I can say this here. Athletes
sometime are considered protected in schools.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Protected class. Yeah, they're protected bringing glory to the school.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
So you know, my coaches were really involved making sure
that I was, you know, doing my work. I mean
I was motivated anyway, Like I didn't need it, but
it was just you know, I don't know, it was
just part of you were part of a group.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Were there any lessons of that?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
I mean, age, you managed to be very serious about
something that was not academic and clearly managed your academics
such that you could go on to academic glory beyond sports.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
It was an expectation in our home. Right, student, You're
a student first. My mom would be like, I could
care less about the sports. I want straight a's right.
When I didn't. One time I made a b it
was like the world was going to end, and.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
They said, we're not. We don't have tiger moms.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
We got our own brand of Tiger Mommy's exactly.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
It was, I don't know, like I've always been busy.
I mean to this day, I only get about four
or five hours of sleep and secret and so I
would go to practice, I would come home, I would eat,
and then I would study, and I would probably go
to bed at around between twelve and two, and then
(11:56):
I would wake up at five and I would run
and then I would get on a bus that would
take me to the other side of town because I
had to take the AP classes were the first period
before all the other students came to school, and so
I would get there at seven twenty and go to
first period, take the class, and then second period is
(12:19):
when everyone else came to school, and then school all
day and then practice and then go home. So it
was a very predictable routine. And I never broke my routine,
very similar to what I do now. You know, in
my world it was I'm an athlete. It was like
it's a job. This is my job, and I also
(12:39):
have a job to get good grades and do well
in school. I didn't do anything else. So in middle
school I was in student government and doing all these
other things. But by the time I got to high school,
it was just practice, track meets studying, study groups. If
I could, you know, make it, yeah, and that was it.
(13:02):
And it was I mean, the lessons that come out
of athletics for me also makes me who I am.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I always want to win.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
I'm super competitive, perseverance, the resistance. Like you lose a
race and then you're just like, okay, why did I
lose this race? What can I do better? And then
you go back and you train differently, you live weights,
you know, I need to eat differently. I wasn't hydrated,
you know, like you pick apart all the reasons why
you lost a race or why it didn't run a
(13:31):
certain time. And so it was that even in high school,
being able to just analyze, like my running and even
in school, if I got a ninety on a test,
I'm like, why did I miss these two questions like
why didn't I get this? And going back to my
teacher and saying, help me understand this. And so this
is constant cycle of reflection, but you know, continuing to
(13:54):
push yourself is kind of how I do things now
hasn't changed at all.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Okay, so this so I gotta just stop for a
minute and repeat this. I was not I mean, I
was not at all sports as my sports focused. But
what really resonates with what you just said is that
the beauty of being involved in highly competitive sports are
relatively early age is that, like you said, you have
to fail because of the volume, the amount of time
that you're doing this. Nobody wins every single race. I
(14:21):
mean you wouldn't, you'd stop trying. I mean, if there's
no motivation to do better, so you know how to fail,
and you do it enough time so that failing is
not traumatic, it's sort of part of the practice. And
then the immediate response to that, I mean, sure it's
not great. You want to win, you don't want to lose,
but you shake that off fairly quickly because you know
(14:42):
what you have to do next, and what you have
to do next, is sort of recalibrate, figure out. It
becomes not your failing, your internal something wrong. It's just
something that needs fixing. And that is such a I
say that because personally, because I excelled at school at
an early age and I was very motivated to do
(15:03):
very well. And it took me well into my school
experience to feel failure really strongly. And by that time
I personalized it. I was I felt like I was
something wrong with me because I had failed this test.
And so it's a big different. I mean, it's a
(15:23):
really I'm just saying this out loud because parents, the
importance of distinguishing that for.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Your kids as early as possible.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Like you, you know, because you fail at something or
don't do well, you got to do something about there's
something like your mother said, you got to come home
with AA.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I mean, that's the important thing.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
But figuring out how to do that is not some
soul searching thing that requires you to be different than
you are. It's just it's flying principles.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Figuring out what went wrong? Man, how old am I
having revelations?
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Anyway?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Sorry, I just had to take a minute.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
They're like, that's genius.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
With sports, you get immediate feedback.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yes, yes, which is.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Unlike I mean, well, I guess with school, you know,
you can take a test and write a grade, or
with sports.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
The difference is there, it is, And the difference is
it's sports. You have a momentous failure professional amateur, and
then you can come back next week and have a
momentous win and everybody remembers the win and it is
more impressed because you came back. The testing thing in
school is not that we should have that same perspective,
(16:28):
and we really don't.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
It's like a little bit in my school, a little.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Bit yeah, right, with you in charge, I'm sure they too.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Again, I mean with track and field too. You can
make a change in the next race. Absolutely in that
same meat. I love sports as a backdrop for education
and make sure the schools have athletics. My kids are athletes,
of course, but it does help, Like you learn fairly
early how to deal with success and failure. And as
(17:00):
my grandmother or my great grandmother, you used to say,
you can't win all the time. You know you're going
to lose some time. Yeah, and just and that's life.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
The sooner you get that that you are now see
now I'm thinking, shoot every parent and make sure their
child has some sports beginnings. It's very important. But anyway,
this is it just it certainly drives home the point
that teaching your kids about being comfortable in failure.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
You know, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I've talked with other guests about I'm not comfortable with
this sort of generic we should allow our children to
fail because to me, that means if your child is struggling,
you should let them struggle and figure out on their
own how to help themselves out of it. Now, there's
some value to that, but I also think as parents
we have a role in getting them in the position
(17:46):
where they can do better. But this definition of failing,
I mean, I like that. So I want to talk
to about teachers in twenty twenty three. Okay, so, as
we all know the pandemic, for parents to step into
the shoes of teachers during the pandemic, when they had
to in ways that they hadn't ever anticipated and couldn't
(18:07):
even imagine, it was making their heads explode. And I've
spent time on the podcast talking about how parents have coped,
but now to focus on how teachers coped because and
are still trying to cope. I mean, they are, in
many instances their first responders, because some of them had
to stay in school with the kids when individual school
districts decided to keep going, Can you just sort of
(18:29):
talk with me about how you led your schools through
this and help the teachers cope with all of the
changes that the pandemic required.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
So when the pandemic broke, you know, of course, none
of us knew it would be what it became, and
so we thought we would be out about two or
three weeks. We also had a spring break embedded in
that time, and so we're like, Okay, send the kids
home with some work, we'll come back. When we discovered
that that wasn't going to happen, we had to figure out, okay,
(19:03):
how are we going to educate the kids, And so
that first that spring we did something different kind of
we we met with all the staff and we said, okay,
that have families who are sick, I have kids who are sick.
I have family members who are passing away. EMS won't
come and pick them up and bring them the hospital.
(19:24):
The hospitals are overcrowded. I have families who work in
the hospitals. I was like, things are so crazy the
last thing I want to do is pretend like we're
teaching on a virtual screen right now. And the last
thing I want to do is try to pass out
thousands of laptops when most of my most of my
(19:45):
staff are they are from the community. So they were
going through it at the same time, like I didn't
have a staff that's outside. So some of them live
down the street from their schools. They know the families,
they know the kids, and so we were kind of
in this all together, and we I'm going.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
To interrupt just one second just to explain that your
school head of ninety nine percent or has a ninety
nine percent minority enrollment.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I mean it's a neighborhood school in the Bronx, Yes,
and so.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
We're talking about black and brown and Asian as well. Yeah,
students in the neighborhood. So so I wanted just to
say that because the teachers everyone is there are many
people that come from the community. So whatever is happening
to the student body community is also happening to the teachers.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Yes, yes, And so we decided that we were going
to give students assignments that they could do some asynchronous
kind of work. They could do it on their phones
and they.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Could benefit asynchronous for those of us who are.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Not that they're they're not.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
It's not live teaching, right what people experience when we
open schools back up and everybody was on zoom and
the teachers are lecturing and you have the little boxes
where kids are listening, and you know there are slide shows.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
And things like that. So you gave it to homework,
I mean we're.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Yeah, yeah, it was wor they could do handouts, they
could log into a software to complete assignments, but what
was most important. Students and families were divided in groups,
and we assigned every single staff member to a small
group to where they would check in every single day
(21:19):
and they were called well, we were doing wellness checks.
So they would get on the phone and talk to
the families, talk to the students. If the kids needed help,
they would tutor them. And so we took our entire staff,
so that meant everybody, even our custodians.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Even cafeteria workers.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Everybody had either you know, some people had maybe one
or two kids, some people had five or six or eight,
and it was their job every day to check in.
And this is how we discovered we could actually support
the families. So there was a tracker. It would come
back to us this particular family family member is really ill,
(22:04):
they can't leave, they don't have any food. So we
set up Groery, a grocery store initiative where families could
go and with and just going to the store get
groceries and it would be charged to us on a
credit account. We found out that families needed health care,
so we were It just turned into this big family
(22:27):
oriented education but social wellness kind of ecosystem to kind
of get us through the rest of the school year.
So March, April, May June, that's what we were doing
the entire time, and then once we got to the summer,
we had virtual arts programming for the kids. And then
(22:51):
that's when we got back. We came back in September
and our teachers went back and then we had the
hybrid instruction. We made it through and we took care
of staff members, we took care of families, and I
mean that time period, it was sixteen eighteen hour workdays.
I mean every single day, I mean seven days a week.
(23:14):
It was NonStop. It did not stop. I didn't take
a break.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
And you had a family, I mean all the people
that were doing those workdays.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Family. Yeah, my daughter stepped up to the plate. She
was in sixth grade and she kind of just took
care of her brother. They were fully remote and they
took care of each other because they knew we were working.
And then we were all I mean, our entire house
was four screens on all day and theirs would go
(23:47):
off at four, and you know, we would stay on
probably it depended eight nine o'clock. We were you know,
we were managing, working with doctors and hospitals and insurance.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Come.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
I mean, it was I remind people constantly because no
one wants to go back and remember how bad it was.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
It was.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
It was, it was, It was tough.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
You know, it's really important to remember how bad it
was for many reasons, and not the least of which
is what I want to talk about next, which is
the what people are calling the pandemic slide. I mean,
people are now up in arms about the loss of learning,
but if you remember how bad it was when there
was no vaccine, we were less focused on how our
children were being educated day to day, but really the
(24:33):
the wellness, the desire to stay well and both physically
and mentally had to be prioritized over the amount of
education of being poured into our children daily. So, yeah,
there's a gap, there's a slide, but it's sort of
like the winding and the I mean, you have to
acknowledge that it happened, You've analyzed that, you know why
(24:53):
it happened. It's not like everybody just stopped caring, but
it exists. I mean there's a there's a loss of learning.
Do you think that's generally and yours specifically are are
have had to sort of make new approaches to kind
of help help kids get back on track.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
I Mean the first thing that I think this entire year,
I've been having this conversation different with different constituents, different
groups of folks, and I've shared that we haven't allowed
ourselves ourselves any grace to kind of just sit and say, Okay,
let's think about what happened. Now, let's look at where
(25:33):
we are now, and let's deal with recovery and the
reality of what we have to do. And in terms
of parenting, I've had to tell parents there are gaps everywhere,
and so we know that they exist, and so let's
address the gaps, like, let's not pretend that they're not there.
(25:56):
So that's the first thing. Allow yourself grace, take a
breather and say, it's going to take at least three
years to fix some some it might not be, but
it's going to take some time. And know that it's
going to take time. And during that time you actually
have to be more vigilant and hands on, and you're
(26:19):
going to have to pull resources that you probably never had.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
To do before and are used before.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
And just understand that that's the reality and don't ignore
that it. You know, like, let's not pretend. So it's
difficult because it's completely different for every single child. There
are some kids who academically are like, are fine, like
a pandemic never happened. And then there are some kids
(26:49):
where you can actually see, you can see gaps like, Okay,
when the pandemic broke, you were a kindergartener. Now you're
a third grader, and in March, this curriculum is taught.
This curriculum is taught in April, and so now I
can even see as a third grader there's a gap.
But then this weird thing because you came back to
(27:10):
school in first grade, it kind of covered up a
little bit. But now that we're building in second and third,
now it's coming out again that you don't know this information,
that you didn't master it. So let's step back and say, okay,
I need to fill these things in from K. Once
I do that, then I can build the little parts
that are missing from first, and then I can build
(27:32):
on second, and then we're here at third. It's very difficult.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
It is.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
It is, But it goes back to again this sports analogy,
which I'm now obsessed with, in the sense that you
have a loss, you have this gap. But if your
focus is take the L, it's an L. Can't turn
make it a W.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
It's an L.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
But we are now putting steps into place. We're going
to figure out what we do to get ourselves in
the position of ultimately winning what you know, for some
people it's going to be you need to relearn how
to do this. And so many guests have talked about
the importance of mastery at an early age and how
much time has to be put in if parents can
(28:14):
let go of that sense of indignance that you sort
of it is. It shouldn't be. We all can admit
it shouldn't be. But it's no one's fault that it is,
and so we all have to be working together and
not pointing fingers. We have to sort of it's it's
going to be a challenge for everybody. So with all
(28:35):
that as the backdrop, again I said at the intro,
I always think about what parents need to do, what
parents wish teachers would say, and what they need to
do with teachers. But here we have for thinking about
the teachers. The teachers who like you, have their own
families that they are. Everybody's the same during the pandemic,
and they're dealing with their own families. They also have
their school families that they're working with. And now we're
(28:58):
all back. What kinds of things have you heard from
your teachers that they are that they find helpful for
parents to do in terms of engagement and in helping
their individual little kids, helping teachers figure out what their
particular child might need. I mean, is I always talk
(29:20):
about communication. I don't mean you can't speak for every teacher,
but I mean generally, is it a good idea for
parents to try to talk to teachers about where they
think their children are?
Speaker 3 (29:31):
And sort of yeah, yes, So the two way communication
is so important now than ever teachers. So parents need
to understand the teachers are frustrated too. They're exhausted. Some
(29:51):
might not even know where to begin. If they have
a large classroom, it can be difficult if they have
students that have challenges or gaps, and they don't know
where to begin. And then they're being driven by maybe
a prescribed kind of pacing calendar curriculum that they need
(30:11):
to to use to teach. And I mean, I could
just use an example of my schools. I've always said
I want teachers to teach. That hasn't changed. So we've
built in supports everywhere, Like we have a Family and
Community and Engagement team. Each campus has a family care aid. Yes,
(30:32):
I want you to communicate with the families, but I
don't want you to be the.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Person to try to figure out why a.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Child is homeless, or why a child it's food and secure,
or why this child doesn't have a school uniform on. Like, Yes,
raise the you know, bring it to someone's attention, but
I want.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
You just to teach, right.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
I want you to build relationships with scholars, and I
want you to teach like your hair is on fire,
because the work is actually harder than it's ever been before.
Like it's tough. And so what we've done is we've
hired more supports. We've tried our best to hire more
instructional staff. But I started to notice that if there
(31:14):
are things that we can take away administratively from teachers,
that that actually helps them focus with instruction. So we
created the Community Learning Partners, where again through those wellness checks,
I was hearing that I'm looking at the spreadsheets and
I see that everyone is losing their jobs. So I'm like,
(31:35):
come work in schools, like we need you here. We
have a job for you. And so all these I
guess transitional spaces I call them. We have folks there
to make copies, to take students to the bathroom, or
(31:56):
to participate in lunch do or to help grade a document,
or to upload something in the digital platform that we
use scan you know, documents. Uh, all the things that
teachers have done in the past. I said, let me
take this off your plate, because your teaching responsibility has
(32:20):
multiplied now like it's it's intensified. And so we have
over I think we have over sixty we call them
clps throughout all of our schools. That kind of help
in those spaces interesting to alleviate the pressure because I can't.
I can't alleviate the pressure of the reality that you
(32:40):
have to teach your.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Butt off right right right, You're going to have.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Different more differently able than normal.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
You've got gaps. Yeah, you want to close gaps.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Everybody wants the gaps to be closed.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
And yes, no, yeah, let's let's I mean something as
simple as you know, when teachers have to do you know,
they step out theirroom during transitions and they're doing hall monitoring,
something simple.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
It's just part of the job. You don't have to
do that.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Now, stay in your classroom, get things set up. Now
your time is actually spent on your craft. Not to
take it completely off your plate, but you know that
there's someone in that hallway. Now, there's someone in that space.
So we've just hired more folks to help because I
can't take away that the job is harder than it's
(33:28):
ever been before.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
We'll be right back after these messages. Welcome back to
the show. You know, this is a really interesting perspective
for parents to hear because parents are focused on first
the fact that they were with their kids a lot,
and so they didn't think about what teachers were doing
while they were with their kids a lot, and so
now that their kids are back in school, parents are
(33:52):
focused on what the teachers can do to help their children,
which is understandable. But I do think this conversation should
encourage parents to think about what teachers are dealing with
generally speaking.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
And that's not to say.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
That therefore you shouldn't try to communicate with a teacher,
or you shouldn't do anything that you need to do
for your child, that's right, but just not only think
about what the teacher is doing, but what the school
is doing.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
And if this actually.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Points more to how parents can get involved in the school.
I mean, you fortunately had a budget where you could
hire people, but there may be instances where parents can
through an association or just figure out how they can
be more helpful. I always encourage parents to get involved
in the school, and this is across the board, a
district school, a charter school, and independent school.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
I mean, you need to.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Be in there, part of the community, but maybe you're
in there now thinking a little bit about how to
make it a more supportive community for everybody. I mean,
not just to get your child through.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Well.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
I think teachers will now I'm going to get on
my soapbox.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
So the pandemic brought in technology in a way that
we've never had before in education, and now it has
become a nuisance. So for every scholar received two laptops,
(35:21):
they have one in school and they have one at home.
And you know, during the pandemic, it was so efficient
to communicate through Google classroom and to place you know,
upload the homework assignments and put the classroom lesson plans
and parents could you know, like everything was just we
were so connected. We're still kind of relying on that,
(35:46):
and it's in conflict with what's happening in reality in
the classroom. And so what I would encourage families is
to kind of take away the technology. What would help
us in schools and what would help teachers is to
kind of decrease this reliance on social media, cell phones,
(36:09):
the video games. And I would even say that I'm
guilty of it myself as a parent. I've gone cold
turkey with my kids. They don't have access to any technology.
You're guilty of it, meaning that it was so easy.
And what I started to observe in my own schools
(36:30):
is that the laptop has became babysitters. So it's like
I'm going to teach this lesson maybe for about fifteen minutes,
and then you're going to open up your laptop and
do independent work. That's not how it was before pre pandemic.
It was very much hands on instruction and guided instruction
and then we're going to do independent We're going to
(36:50):
do group work. Now everyone has a laptop sitting in
front of them, and then when they go home, they
have a laptop sitting in front of them. So what
has happened? We have less conversations. Kids don't even want
to pick up a book and actually read it like
a interesting because during the pandemic we had digital books, right,
(37:11):
so now it's just easier to have a digital book.
So like I got rid of all of our digital books.
I was like, nope, nope, We're going back to a
good old book. You on turn and flip some pages.
And I want to push families to do that at home.
Like how we're going to alleviate or erase these gaps.
(37:35):
We have to do double in triple time. Like so
I bring back the sports analogy. We would our coaches
would say, you're going to win because you're going to
outwork the next person. You're going to run an extra mile,
you are going to lift more weights, You're going to
(37:57):
do this, and because you worked harder, this is how
that's the formula. So for me, the way we're going
to get out of this is that parents have to
read with their kids every single day, like you just
you have to when they're younger, and then when they're
older they have to pick up. Like I tell my kids,
(38:19):
no a chapter, I want this book, complete it. But
then I also we have you know, I call our
nerdy family literature circles where we read classics.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Together, you and your husband and your kid.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Yeah, we're we We did to Kill a mocking Bird before.
I mean, we've done so many different and so now
we're I'm gearing them up for Tom Sawyer, which no
one's looking forward to that, but I'm gonna make it
exciting and you.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Will have very lots of interesting discussions about language, get
them ready for those college discussions about language and the
high school and college.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
And so like.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Our kids, not only they just need us more, they
need us in our life, in their lives. They when
they're on their phones and they're online they're in a
virtual world. They're in a space that's unregulated, it's unsupervised.
I remember my mom saying, you're not going to take
(39:21):
the advice of your stupid friends that are the same
age as you, that don't know anything just like you.
So like you have to, like, I know your peers matter.
She's like, I know your friends matter, but you guys
are the same. You're the blind leading to blind, right,
And like now I laugh because I'm.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Like, yes, that's exactly.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Like and so, but now we've allowed them to go
into a virtual space that's worse than your group of
friends that are in school. Now you can be in
a space where you think you're talking to a kid
and it's not. It's an avatar of an adult or
a teenager or a bot is unsupervised and they're just
(40:00):
out there to try to figure it out on their own, right, right, Like, yes,
there's some aspect or point where they are going to
be exposed to that, but we can control some of that.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
And to your point, I mean, these issues about the
potential dangers of tech existed pre pandemic, for sure, but
the combination of the required focus on technology during the
pandemic and its continuation. To your point, we have to
look at it in the context of.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
The bigger picture. And the bigger picture is we've.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Had a gap, everybody's had a loss, and we have
to do something different. So while the advice to step
away from all this stuff is advice that's been given before,
I think parents.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Should hear it a little differently now.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
It's sort of it's not like because there have been
some studies that shown that children's focus on social media
while they were in the midst of the pandemic was
helpful because they found outlets and they found social groups
and so. But now things are different. Now we can
interact with one another. And for younger family with younger kids,
they're finding the challenges of encouraging their children to interact
upon another since they even have that in the early
(41:06):
years of socialization were thrown out the window. But the
point is that we have to think about things that
we do almost instinctively differently now and we do have
to step away from the things, even though it's hard.
I mean it's hard, it's hard as a parent.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
It's hard.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Oh my god, it's challenging.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
It's hard.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
You feel guilty you're like, these are their friend groups.
I don't know what to do, but we need to
get our children back and we have to support the schools.
So if you're let's just say a kindergartener, first grade parent,
you come home, you've worked all day and you know
your child has homework they can do kind of do
(41:47):
on their own, and before they go to bed or
while you're making dinner or whatever it is, they're on
an iPad until they go to bed, Like take away
that time just fifteen ten or fifteen minutes and let's
just have a discussion, even if you're exhausted, talk about
(42:07):
current events. Talk, you know, pull out a book let
the child read.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
To you, I mean your five year six year old,
whatever you're doing to like get ready for the rest
of the evening.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
They can help. They can help you.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
They can and this is where and it is super
it's super important in middle and high school as well.
The kids want to talk and they're going to find
that space when they can talk to you. But if
everyone's online and so what it does too it also
requires the adults to get off right right because we're
just as kind of addicted to our phones and to
(42:40):
our laptops and everything, and so there's a huge shift,
and we can make that shift. It's going to help
in the schools, you know, like make sure your child
is doing their homework, because that's helpful if you know,
it's nothing like for a teacher to plan and work
so hard and then the kids come back the next
day and only half of the class has completed their homework.
(43:02):
And so now now I got two different groups. So
now I'm working with the kids who did it and
had questions or mastered it, and now working with the
kids it didn't even do it and don't even know
where to begin with them. So I'm gonna so now
you've created a different type of instructional kind of model
in that classroom because now that assignment wasn't completed.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
So and that's where the communication really helps, because certainly
you know your five or six year old is doing
the homework or not doing their homework, but you're middle
school or you're a high schooler, you.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Send them off.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
They're sitting by themselves with tech or without doing the stuff,
and you don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
The communication helps because say.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
You think your child's doing their homework and they're not
turning anything in either because they actually aren't doing it,
or they're being absent minded and they left at home
or whatever. If you're talking, if you're communicating with the
teacher or someone in the classroom setting, you at least know,
I mean, you have to. Parents have to pay a
little bit closer attention to the process.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
Well, one of the good byproducts of the pandemic is
like now everyone well it seems everyone that I know,
they're grades, Like we all have these now systems and
portals where parents can log in and teachers are still
assigning their assignments or in these systems, so you can
go in and see if your child, you know, you
can ask your child you're doing your homework? Yes, the
(44:27):
next day you can go into the portal and see
no you didn't, or yes you did, right.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
And so, and parents have access to the portal yes.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Yeah, so, and again I'm referring to my schools and
some of my colleagues that I know have these systems
in place where you actually can go in and check,
like you have a password, you can go in and
see you're following your kids' grades.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
That's really important. And if your school parents check right now,
because you definitely need. You don't need to share that
information with your kid how often you're checking, but you
should definitely have access to that. That's really helpful. Two
reasons why that's helpful. First of all, most import and
you can see if your child's doing the work. And secondly,
you can have whatever emotional experience that you're having with
this not if it's not going where you want.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
On your own.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
And then you can focus on talking to your child
in a more productive way as opposed to just sort
of losing it when you find out that they're not.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Doing what they want. So, yeah, that's really helpful. So good.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
So parents do have a way of staying involved and
I mean staying connected to what's.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Going on in school.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Yes, yeah, that was one good thing from the pandemic,
being able to communicate that way. But then you have
just the old fashioned way of sending an email, some
teachers texting old old fashioned ways to show up right
and be there and arrival, dismissal, schedule a.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Meeting and in that meeting early on if you can
schedule earl on, which is a good idea. It's good.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
I did find out from the.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Teacher what is their method of prefering communication, because you
could be a texter and they could be an emailer.
And since they are, all these options get on the
same page. Page gets in the same part of cyberspace,
so that you because you want to start out as allies,
I mean you want to remain allies.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
I mean you partners, real partners, you really are, and
now more so than ever.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
And it's it's good for everybody to begin with that
perspective because you know, sometimes things get tough. Sometimes parents
don't want to hear what the teacher is saying and
or or or lose their patience with the teacher. It
could get rocky. You want to start from a perspective
of we're all on the same page, so that you
can return to that if things get you know, if
(46:36):
you're feeling frustrated on both sides, if the parents be helpful,
I imagine for the teachers to know, here's somebody who
really cares. Oh it's fraught, but so so okay. So
now I'm asking you to sort of and of course
you're not referring to your school specifically, but just generally speaking,
are there any kind of parent behaviors that teachers would
(46:58):
like parents to know are not effective? At all, Like,
what is it that doesn't work?
Speaker 3 (47:05):
Probably what drives I think all educators crazy is like
the immediate escalation. So it's like, I'm not going to
talk to you about the problem that took place with you.
I'm just gonna immediately go.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
To your supervisor.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
I'm gonna go to the person above, which I always
tell folks that's just gonna take more time because now
the person that you went to has to go and
do an investigation and find out what's going on and
talk to that person. And so first address the concern
with the party that you have a problem with, like
it's a pet peeve of mine as well. I think
(47:45):
also this work is so hard, like it's a social
justice issue for me, and I'm gonna do everything I
can to fight for children that are not my own
children that I gave for like, but I'm going to
treat them as such. They are my children from the
first day I stepped in the classroom till today. Any
(48:07):
child that has cross my pathway as a teacher, as
an assistant principal, a leader, as a systems leader, all
the children are my children. I never other the kids.
And so let's talk first and don't blame and don't like,
let's give benefit of the doubt. I think everyone's like
(48:29):
you know, like concerned about their children and their lives
and the trajectory that the children are going to take.
And some families have like said, you know, my kids
are behind and I really need help. But immediately they
go to accuse and you're not doing this and I
didn't get this from you, and why is this happening
when it's just like, can we talk first, like everything
(48:52):
doesn't have to be so stressful, like everything doesn't have
to be like a five alarm fire, Like let's talk, right,
and then I can tell you why I made this decision,
or I can tell you no, that's not true, like
let's let's let's let's talk because I'm here for you.
We have a we have family chats when families enter
(49:14):
the schools and we say parents are the first teachers, right,
we're number two. So this is your child and we're
going to do this together. And I'm committed to that.
That's a guarantee. And so remember that even when you're upset, right,
even when you have concerns like I'm here because I
(49:35):
want to be here and I love your child. I
want them to win. So let's let's let's let's figure
this out. Even if you know, because that's what families do.
We don't always agree, but we're family, right, and so
we got to get through this because we have to
keep our eye on the prize exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
All the more reason for parents to connect with the
teacher in person, preferentially early days, because what you've described
requires a trust factor between the parent and the teacher.
You have to believe that this teacher has your child's
best interest. I mean, generally speaking, you would think that
they would, but you need to have that feeling. I mean,
because Goodness knows, you have teachers that you connect with,
(50:16):
your teachers you don't connect with. And it's even more
important if it's a teacher you don't connect with, because
you need to understand how you're going to make that
connection and if for whatever reason you can't do that, how.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
You're going to manage around that.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
And I don't mean by going to a superior, but
I mean just understanding how are you going to become
allies because you have to to help your child. While
optimally every parent's going to have that experience with a
teacher who really does care. They're going to be disconnects
and so you know, you have to figure out how
to make it work. The most important thing is that
it's to your points a family. Not everybody has to
(50:49):
get along with everybody, but they all have to. They
have to be together and they have to make things happen.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Wow, respectful too, right, right? Like if you start off
as respect is your base and the communication is gonna
it's gonna work. But if you start off where it's
it's my job and also helping parents understand advocacy and
what that looks like. You know, like I tell I've
(51:14):
told parents before, you're not gonna yell and curse at me.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
Right.
Speaker 3 (51:19):
I understand that you are very excited and you're upset
about this, but I'm talking this way because I need
for you to calm down. You know, do we need
to talk at another time? Do you you know, whatever
the situation is, it's it's a level of respect. Like
I'm going to respect you, You're gonna respect me. And
(51:40):
I think if if you start off there, you can
solve any.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Problem absolutely well.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
You know, this has been so great, I thought i'd
have to start this conversation about what teachers and parents
should know, and that there'd be this laundry list of things.
But what has come out of this is even better.
It's organic, and hopefully parents listening will understand that how
complicated this all is and how it can't be reduced
to sort of do this, this and this for the
(52:09):
magic formula. But the biggest takeaways are I love that
you started out by saying we should give each other grace,
because I think we forget that grace is so important
across the board.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
I'm so happy.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
I could continue so many different conversations with you, but
I'm going to stop right now for this podcast episode.
But before we go, I'm going to ask you to
play the GCP Lightning Round. Yay. So now take off
your School Administrative Principles Extraordinary hat and put on your
(52:44):
mom hat, because that's what the four questions of the
DCP Lightning Round are, and the first question is well, first,
before I even died in the questions, I'm sorry. I
should have thanked you profusely because I thank you so
much joining me, and I really really appreciate all that
you all the wisdom that you've imparted. I mean, shoot,
(53:05):
I've been educated. I was like the light bulbs going
off at my head. And I don't have any more
children to educate. So if I feel this way, people
listening must really be excited. But okay, so I thank you,
and now let's play the game. And the first question
is what is your favorite poem or saying?
Speaker 3 (53:24):
So, my favorite poem is Ego Tripping by Nikki Giovanni.
A teacher played that for me in a black history
class that I had in high school, and of course
we had a copy of the poem written and I
just thought it was so powerful. I mean, each stanza
(53:48):
ended with you know, I am a beautiful woman. I'm black,
and it was just the metaphors and just the connection
to who we are. It just connected to you know,
those classes where I was told I was a queen
and you can do anything. So always love that poem.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
Tell me now your favorite two children's books, And I'm
asking for two because you can give me one that
you loved growing up and one that your kids loved,
or two that two of in either category.
Speaker 3 (54:19):
So my favorite books growing up. I know everyone says this,
but I love the Doctor Seuss books.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
Well there's a reason everybody says it, because they're amazing.
Speaker 3 (54:32):
Yes, and I which brings conflict now that I know more, right,
But I had these little board books and by the
time I was three, I was like, I can read,
But now I know I was just memorizing words. But
because of the the phonics patterns, you are learning blending
(54:56):
and sounds. And now that I know as an educator
what was happening, it's just amazing. And I did the
same thing with my children. But my favorite, favorite, actual
favorite book growing up was the Story of My Life
Helen Keller, and I have actually have a first edition
copy of the book. Love it, love it, love it.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
It's an amazing story. So wow, that's a great answer.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
That's a first.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
Many people said doctor Seuss, but no one has said
Ellen Keller. And then two mom questions. First a mom
moment that you'd love to do over, and then one
where you nailed it as a mom, meaning like you
did it the best way possible.
Speaker 3 (55:37):
Let's see, I kept I probably kept my daughter in
the public school where we lived probably a year or
two long. It's always a regret that I have because
I was just trying to figure out what it's like
to be part of a public school community. And I
(55:58):
want to be involved, and it's what we do in
this town. And I'm going to like, I'm an educator,
I'm going to i'm going to be on the board,
I'm going to help, I'm going to do this. And
it was in direct conflict with what my kids were
doing in my own schools. Interesting, and once in Charlow
was changed and I was able to have preference to
(56:18):
bring my child into the school. I always look back
and say, I waited a year too.
Speaker 1 (56:25):
Long, Okay, so give me a nailed it moment, and.
Speaker 2 (56:29):
I nailed it moment.
Speaker 3 (56:33):
So my husband and I are both in education, and
you know, we've given so much to, like I said,
other people's children, and it's just our life work and
our passion that we always say, are we doing the
right things with our kids? And I'm always happy when
I hear from other people about how our kids describe
(56:55):
us and what we do. And so hearing my son say,
you know, yeah, they didn't do this with us, because
I know that they were working really hard with this
other family. Interesting and my daughter sharing during an interview
we're going through the independent school process that she she
(57:20):
knows we're really busy, but she gets that the work
we're doing is driven by something bigger than all of us,
but we still manage to make her and a brother
our priority. I have my parent interview and for them
to tell me that we need for you to know
what she said, Wow, And I'm like, oh my god,
they're actually really looking at us all the time and
(57:42):
seeing what we're doing. And so I just feel like
I'm in this space and I never want my kids
to grow up and say you cared about those other
kids than me. But I think they get it, and
so that that's a win for amazing.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
It is an absolute wins, a great story. So I
thank you again so much for coming and sharing with us.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
Thank you so much, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (58:08):
I hope everyone listening enjoyed this conversation and that you'll
come back for more. Please rate, review, and subscribe wherever
you listen to podcasts and tell your friends. For more
parenting info and advice, please check out the Ground Control
Parenting blog at groundcontrolparenting dot com. You can also find
us on Instagram and Facebook at ground Control Parenting and
(58:28):
on LinkedIn under Carol Sutton Lewis The ground Control Parenting
with Carol Sutton Lewis Podcast is a part of the
Seneca Women Podcast Network in partnership with iHeartMedia. Until the
next time, take care and thanks for listening.
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