November 9, 2025 • 43 mins
A tumor melting on camera, a radiology scan to match, and a paper that moved from submission to PubMed faster than we expected—this is the story of how careful documentation turned a personal win into shared evidence. We walk through the case report step by step: how we assembled photos, methods, results, and discussion without overstating what a single case can prove, and why that restraint makes it more valuable to patients and clinicians deciding what to try next.
The heart of our conversation is strategy and sequence. Facing an aggressive head and neck cancer, we chose chemo first and paired it with a low methionine approach and methioninase, aiming to weaken the tumor before considering radiation or extensive surgery. That choice wasn’t about rejecting standards; it was about minimizing irreversible harm while monitoring labs tightly to stay safe. We also dig into the science that sets methionine targeting apart from the hype around cysteine restriction and ferroptosis, highlighting early evidence that cysteine restriction can harm healthy cells as much as tumors—exactly the tradeoff we work to avoid.
We also pull back the curtain on PubMed: how journal credibility works, why impact factors don’t tell the whole story, and how to read beyond headlines to find methods and outcomes that actually apply to you. Along the way, we spotlight real patient wins from our community and the power of weekly check-ins, detailed bloodwork, and a diet that’s practical, sustainable, and supportive through treatment. This is a field note from the front lines of evidence-based hope: honest about limits, focused on safety, and relentless about results.
If this resonates, follow the show, share it with someone weighing cancer decisions, and leave a review to help others find it. Your questions and stories shape what we dig into next.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andtoday we have back Dr.
Robert Hoffman.
And uh we're always excited totalk to you, Robert.
Welcome to the show.
Nice to be here, Joe, always.
So we had a big week this week.
We had a kind of a milestonethat we hit, and um, you know,
(00:27):
we talk a lot about informationand um you know where you're
getting it from.
And I don't know how many timesI've heard people present
something to you, and yourresponse is usually show me the
published paper.
And um, well, uh now I can say,here you go.
So um you've been working onthis case study of my case for a
(00:53):
couple of months now, gatheringall the intel, the pictures, the
reports.
SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
Well, that's all you you sent that wonderful set of
photos that showed your tumormelting away day by day, and you
sent the very nice um uh MRI orCT.
SPEAKER_00 (01:12):
Right.
And and you you and your wholeteam was able to uh put that
together and uh create anarrative of what we did, the
protocol, and um just the thewhole the whole strategy that we
had.
Why don't you kind of walk usthrough how you guys assemble
(01:37):
all that?
You know, I mean it seems likewhen when you read the thing, it
looks like wow, that'd be easyto do, but I know it has to be
done in a particular way with aparticular format and a
particular uh type ofinformation put in a specific
way, and you guys know how to dothat pretty well.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
Yeah, uh it wasn't very hard, Joe, because the
results were so good.
Basically, uh with the kind ofresults that you gave us, it was
a piece of cake.
Um it's hard to write somethingup when you have a marginal
result.
You know, what am I talkingabout?
Yeah, maybe hedge here, hedgethere.
(02:24):
No hedge in here.
So we had two figures, themulti-paneled figure of about 30
of your pictures.
SPEAKER_00 (02:35):
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
It's you took.
Thank God you did that.
SPEAKER_00 (02:39):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:40):
And the tumor just melting away.
It's just unbelievable.
And uh then you got the you wewe you helped me and you gave to
me the the beautiful scan.
We put that in, and everythingjust fell in pace.
You know, basically a paper hasa title, an abstract, an intro,
(03:04):
the methods, the results, and adiscussion and references.
And in this case, it was it waseasy.
Um we had to wait a little whilebecause you get in line.
You know, we send it in, they reit was re peer reviewed, okay,
(03:26):
accepted, and finally they theysend some proofs, you look at
them, you check them, and I'm areal stickler.
I went through about five proofuh rounds with them.
They they hate me for it, but Itry to get things you know best
I can.
(03:47):
And uh then uh you were lined upfor uh the November issue, and
here we are.
So and it's out, it's out, andthat journal has a really good
path to PubMed.
Not all journals do, right?
Right, and they were on almostimmediately, even in the
(04:08):
shutdown.
There's some angel taking careof PubMed.
It's a government website.
I don't know who's taking careof it, but somebody's taking
care of it.
SPEAKER_00 (04:18):
I was surprised because I know when you uh sent
me the article from the journal,uh, we talked about PubMed, and
you were saying, well, it mightbe a while because you know the
and it went on that veryevening, right?
Right, and the next morning,boom, here we are.
So we are, yeah.
In this case, like the wholeworld sees it now, Joe.
(04:39):
I love it, I love it.
Well, I've already shared itwith a number of physicians and
um um and a number of peoplethat you know I I I know that
they're kind of watching what Ido, but you know, I'm just a
layman.
I don't have that that degree ofof you know expertise to say,
(05:02):
well, this nobody does show.
SPEAKER_01 (05:04):
We can't all we can know from this paper is that you
got better, right?
Uh was it the chemo itself orwas it the chemo along with the
methionase?
Well, our hypothesis is it wasthe combo, but we can't prove
it, and we don't care, yeah.
And we're not even trying to.
Uh in in some cases, even if wetried, we couldn't do it.
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (05:27):
It's not a clinical trial, it's a case report.
And in the journal's table ofcontents, it was listed under
case reports right about that.
And um, so that's what it is,it's a case report, right?
People can say whatever theywant, I don't care.
Right.
Well, what we care about is thatyou're all better.
SPEAKER_00 (05:47):
Oh, yeah.
That's and that is uh objectivenumber one.
You know, that was what this wasall about to meet.
And it it was a reallyunexpected result, right?
SPEAKER_01 (05:59):
And that lends you to think your hypothesis that it
was the combination, it may havea good chance of being correct.
Um, we'll never know.
Well, I don't want to go backand find out a second time.
I'll tell you that we don't getthose kind of responses very
often.
SPEAKER_00 (06:16):
Well, especially with this cancer that I had,
it's uh generally a veryaggressive irradiate you to
hell, yeah.
Yeah, and and I would have been,you know, I went back and I
looked at the um at the originaluh records of the uh radio
(06:36):
oncologist, and his notes werevery clear about how he had
discussed with me all of thepotential negative side effects,
and you know, including gettinga G2 put in and uh you know
losing weight and not being ableto eat, not being able to
swallow, um, salivary glandsfalling apart, um, vertebrae
(07:02):
collapsing, um, teeth fallingout.
I mean, and the list goes on andon and on of not just potential
but likely side effects.
Because, you know, your neck isa is a high traffic area.
There's everything going on inyour neck.
You got bones, you got muscle,you got nerves, you got
(07:23):
arteries, you got veins, yougot, I mean, everything is going
through there.
You got your lymphatic.
SPEAKER_01 (07:32):
I mean, just and all your food goes down it, and all
the air goes down it.
SPEAKER_00 (07:36):
Right, everything you need, and yeah, not only
that, but stones throw away fromyour brain, a stones throw away
from your lungs, like yeah, it'sreally not the place you want to
be blowing up with radiation.
No, and they were more than gladto do it, and um well that's
their that's their mainguideline, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:58):
That's what they've been taught to do, that's what
they're paid to do, right?
Uh that they think that's thebest, and um we just went with
logic.
Well, can't we try the chemofirst?
Right.
Can we see that if we need theradiation, we'll get it?
SPEAKER_00 (08:20):
Can we try the chemo, please?
It just makes sense.
Like, you know, the HippocraticOath is supposed to include this
sort of, I don't know, prettyimportant phrase about harming
none, right?
SPEAKER_01 (08:36):
Isn't that the the the first rule the Hippocratic
oath is do no harm?
SPEAKER_00 (08:41):
Right, that's the first principle, and and and you
would think that would be prettyhigh on the list of like, well,
you know, we have this choice ofthings we could do.
Let's start with the thing thatwill harm the least and work our
way up.
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
They don't I think they don't think that way.
Their guidelines say this is thebest chance, right?
And they say if we don't giveyou the best chance, we're not
doing right by you.
Right.
That's what they think.
Yeah, that's what they'retaught.
Maybe that's their experience.
I don't know.
Um it it's they don't want toharm you.
(09:17):
No, no, they don't they theywant you to get better, um, but
that's all they know, right?
That's all they know, and you'rea chemo doc.
Uh thank god she was open-mindedenough to just give you chemo.
SPEAKER_00 (09:33):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
Um, and then you kind of use that up and and went
to Dr.
Song and got one of the greatestin the world.
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
Oh my goodness, I I I am just so tickled that um,
you know, there's just in myopinion, there's been a series
of miracles that have takenplace through this.
And you know, a miracle isgenerally the result of a lot of
hard work and and you know,doing everything you can and
(10:03):
thinking the right thoughts andeverything put together, but
call it whatever you want.
But just the fact that you know,when this thing was growing and
I I couldn't get the dentalclearance because I didn't know
better.
Remember, in the beginning, Iwas gonna go forward with
everything they were requestingbecause I had to do something.
(10:24):
And when I couldn't get thedental clearance, that was the
first sort of I don't know, thatwas that was good luck.
It was the best thing could havehappened because it it slowed
down my ability to get anythingdone.
And at that point, the tumor wasgrowing pretty dramatically, in
spite of the diet, themethionase, all the other things
(10:46):
I was doing.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
It was they just weren't powerful enough for that
kind of tumor.
SPEAKER_00 (10:50):
It had it has to be the combination.
It had already dug in and and uhit had already built a
superhighway, it had its uh youknow, blood system in place, it
was it knew what knew what itwas doing, and it was growing
like crazy.
I remember when they stuck thatcamera down my nose, and I
(11:11):
looked at that thing in the backof my tongue, and I saw it.
I still can close my eyes andand see that thing, and it was
like uh, if you could describeit, it looked scaly, but the
scales were slimy, and it wasjust like I could see the thing
almost breathing, you know.
It was like it was it wasstaying alive, it was growing,
(11:35):
it was it was probably the mostlively tissue in your body.
Oh man, yeah, you could justlook at it, it almost like
breathed at me, you know, andthat just got my attention like
nobody's business.
I mean, it wasn't bad enough.
I had a grapefruit sticking outof my neck, but when you look
that thing in the eye, whoo! Itell you what, it it it really
(11:59):
um it focused my attention tothe point that you know we
started talking more and more,and um, you know, you you
suggested this neo-adjuvantsolution, and you know, it it
kind of blows me away that thedoctors don't always go after a
(12:20):
neo-adjuvant solution.
Like the more research is nottheir guidelines, I know, but
the more research you do onsurgery, it's the most likely
route to cause you problems inthe future because the
likelihood of them gettingeverything, even if they do like
uh it's almost zero, no matterwhat they say, right?
(12:44):
Because they can't see it, theycan only see the part they can
see, and yeah, you know, theythey go after like sometimes on
a skinned one where they keepcutting off a piece and then
they look at it under themicroscope and they cut off
another piece.
SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
I guess they have a chance of taking that out that
way because you can yeah, I hadthat on my ear 21 years ago and
it never came back, right?
And that's exactly what theydid, right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
And and but you can't do that inside.
Nope.
You can only do that on theoutside.
SPEAKER_01 (13:16):
So when you got it, I was in the doctor's chair and
we'd go to the microscopetogether, see how we're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (13:22):
Yeah, and I can I can understand that to me.
That surgery is a viablesolution, and you know, for
anybody who has a skin lesion orsome type of uh precancerous
growth.
SPEAKER_01 (13:37):
Oh Joe, they would have taken out part of your jaw,
they would have taken out theback of your tongue.
SPEAKER_00 (13:43):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
Oh my god, what they would have done.
SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
Well, and I've seen so many images of people that
have had surgery that was noteven nearly as bad as mine to
start with.
You know, they showed a tumorthat was like how mine was a
year and a half ago, and and youknow, a fraction of the size,
and they still leave thesegaping holes and taking out
(14:08):
pieces of bone and taking out,you know, it would take out a
part of your tongue, noquestion.
Yeah.
And you know, for me, I a bigpart of my life is talking, you
know.
I do this podcast, I teachpeople, I I I am I'm I use my
voice as part of my way of lifeand my living.
(14:30):
It would have probably affectedmy voice to the point where I
would not have been able to dothe thing.
SPEAKER_01 (14:37):
You couldn't use your mouth properly, probably
for months.
I can't imagine how you wouldeat.
SPEAKER_00 (14:42):
Right, exactly.
And and and that's not evengetting into the the salivary
glands, and you know, I I keeplooking at these um, you know,
this group that I'm in, and theconstant complaints of you know,
the my my saliva is like paste,and I can't even swallow at all.
(15:05):
Um, you know, I'm I'm I'm I'velost you know 40 pounds and and
I I can't, you know, I can'tkeep any weight on, even with
the you know, the G tube.
And and and and then people comeback, and here's the part that
really gets me.
I don't know how many times I'veseen, you know, six months, a
(15:28):
year, two years after a surgery,and even the radiation, and then
they'll come back and say, itshowed up in my lungs, it showed
up in my lymph nodes, it showedup somewhere else, and now we
got to start all over again.
And they already went throughthis grueling hell of weeks or
months of of this torturoustreatment, and then they're
(15:52):
looking at maybe doing it allover again.
I couldn't even imagine.
So when when it comes topublishing an article on a
peer-reviewed periodical andthen submitting it to PubMed,
where it's like a clearinghouseof all these different articles,
(16:14):
there are different categoriesof of papers that are that are
published.
And I've seen clinical trials,I've seen um, you know, case
studies, I've seen, why don'tyou tell us a little bit about
the types of information that'spublished and maybe the
standards that are held, youknow, to this.
(16:37):
Because when you look atsomething in a in a site like
PubMed, you go, well, I I givethat way more credence than I do
the guys' you know website orthe blog or whatever else things
are published on.
SPEAKER_01 (16:54):
Well, PubMed has really democratized science.
Uh it's a free website.
It's got over 41 millionscientific publications on it.
Um the abstract of all of themare free.
The full paper of a goodpercentage of them are free.
(17:17):
Um every kind of study you canimagine is there.
They don't there's no criteriafor the type of study.
They don't let every journal on.
They have to the journal has topass some credibility tests to
get listed by PubMed.
(17:38):
There's some journals that arenot listed by PubMed, and I
avoid them.
Some of them I maybe like alittle bit, but no way.
And some of the fancy journalshave these what so-called very
big impact factor numbers.
Uh that means how often they getcited.
(18:00):
And some of the journals onPubMed have a very small impact
number, but you can't tell thaton PubMed.
It's very democratic.
So the fanciest nature paper islisted right alongside the r the
you know, the journals that arenot so fancy.
And um I'm very grateful for thejournal we published in.
(18:24):
We published there a lot.
It's so open-minded.
Um they want to publish thingsthat are good for science and
not to promote their journal,get more citations, whatever,
whatever.
No, they want to have goodscience.
So PubMed is very democratic.
(18:48):
Um, you can't by the list, youdon't know which is the high
impact journal, fancy fancy,cost ten thousand dollars to
publish in.
SPEAKER_00 (18:57):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (18:58):
Or the little guy that publishes a lot of good
stuff.
All on the same list.
SPEAKER_00 (19:07):
You have been very prolific with your uh articles
that have been published, and umI have looked at a number of
them, but there's you publishedtwenty-three papers just this
(19:30):
year alone, according to whatI'm looking at.
And there's a a a wide varietyof of papers that you're
publishing, and they go, itlooks like a lot of them are um
experiments, and you've got thisamazing team of people, and it
(19:54):
it's not always the same team onevery no, some of it's
collaboration, Joe.
SPEAKER_01 (20:00):
Right, right.
We have groups with our groupwith another group.
We have that too.
SPEAKER_00 (20:08):
And and so tell me about, you know, a lot of these,
I I they look like they'rethey're an experiment or a study
on a um, you know, not notsomebody's case study, but um
and but in some cases they are.
(20:28):
I mean, you're looking at umbreast cancer, you're looking at
pancreatic cancer, but some ofthese are in animals.
You've got micro.
SPEAKER_01 (20:39):
Some of them are just in the dish.
So, what we've been trying to dothe last couple years is try to
find the best synergy of chemoand methioninase, and we've done
this in a number of differentways to show what especially we
want to see what's synergisticwith methioninase and different
(21:02):
kinds of chemo that affect thecancer cell but are not
synergistic and have a minimaleffect on the normal cell.
And a lot of people don't dothat, I don't understand it.
Oh, this kills the cancer, andthat kills the cancer, and
here's the best way to kill thecancer.
Well, did you try it on thenormal cells?
SPEAKER_00 (21:23):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (21:24):
Exactly.
I mean, you know, I think thekid in fourth grade might ask
that question.
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
Right.
Maybe third grade.
You can kill a cancer cellpretty easy, just put a little
bleach on it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:36):
That's all you need to do.
It'll die, but put that I meanthe during the COVID, the
president was ready to injecthimself with Clorox.
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
Uh, I remember.
SPEAKER_01 (21:46):
I remember.
Um, so uh yeah, the the idea is,and the difficulty is how do you
kill the cancer cell withoutkilling the patient?
This is what it's all about.
SPEAKER_00 (22:02):
Well, and just recently you did a study um with
uh what was it, cysteine and ummethionine kind of side by side,
and you restricted the cysteineand we haven't published that.
That's gonna come out soon, Joe.
I'll I'll keep quiet on that onethen.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
Yeah, no, you don't have to keep quiet on it.
It it turns out when yourestrict cysteine, it's not a
cancer-specific vulnerability.
SPEAKER_00 (22:31):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (22:32):
You zap the normal cells the same as you zap the
cancer cells.
When you restrict methionine,you zap the cancer cells, and
the normal cells hang in there.
SPEAKER_00 (22:40):
And and I mean, like you said, I can't think of a
more important factor.
And and there are people outthere talking about cysteine
restriction.
SPEAKER_01 (22:52):
Oh, up the yin yang, cysteine, cysteine, cysteine,
feroptosis, cysteine, cysteine.
Uh it it the that's one of themost popular things now.
And I say, hey fellas, whathappens on the normal cells?
Right.
And that's uh our our youngscientist, uh, Utah from he said
(23:14):
he hasn't even been here a yearfrom Japan yet.
Right.
About and did it.
Yep.
You this you take away cysteine,you zap the cancer cells, yay!
You take away cysteine, you zapthe can the normal cells, boo
right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:30):
And so the reality is, and I think we have one of
the members of our group thatmaybe has been a victim of this
to some degree, probably it'smore complicated than that, but
um, when you're going after, youknow, this cysteine restriction
by whatever means, maybe it'susing a selenium compound or or
(23:52):
going after this feroptosis umreaction, and the goal of that
in large amount is to remove thecysteine from your diet um and
and remove it just likemethioninase does, takes out the
methionine.
Well, when you have somebodylike Gabriella who who is
(24:18):
compromised already, and she'sgoing through trying to solve
her problem, and she's workingwith this system of compounds
and diet and all the differentthings she was doing to try to
you know remove the cysteine.
I can't help but wonder with thecomplications she's had, that
(24:42):
maybe that didn't make thingsworse for her.
SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
It may have.
The thing I worry most, it mayhave.
The thing I worry most abouther, she's not getting chemo.
The doctor said, Oh, the windowof treatment is closed.
Can you imagine a doctor sayingthat?
No, I would say give it to meanyways.
Let's find out.
Um, she needs another doctor,and yeah, it seems like she's
(25:07):
all by herself.
There's nobody kind of advisingher or what I don't, I don't I
don't really know her situation.
And Dr.
Xame keeps giving her goodadvice on the Zoom meeting, and
she doesn't seem to understandit.
I don't know.
I I it I feel it it's hersituation, she needs help.
SPEAKER_00 (25:32):
Yeah, no, I agree.
I think I've talked to her onthe side several times, and uh,
you know, I told her anytime shecan get a word with Dr.
Exame that you know she shouldtake heed.
I mean, he's been between youand him, um, before Dr.
Sung, I was getting a lot ofgood guidance that helped me in
(25:55):
in my own research, and youknow, spending time in here and
not over there, because you guysalready had experience with some
of the things I was looking at,and it was instrumental and not
wasting my time.
You know, Dr.
Exume's and yours, both of yourthought is well, you you've got
(26:19):
always many choices, but you canrule out some things pretty
quickly, and you can decidewhere to spend your time pretty
quickly as far as what's mostlikely to do the most good and
the least amount of harm.
I think if you start weighingoptions out that way prior to
just you know trying things, butyou know, when you have cancer,
(26:43):
most people that I run into arejust almost frantic.
And and you know, they get hit,we get we get hit with this
information that says this thingthat you now are aware of,
you've had it probably for along time, but you're now aware
of it.
And if you don't take somepretty dramatic uh action, it's
(27:06):
gonna get worse and eventuallyovercome you.
And so when you have to reckonwith that, a lot of times, and
then we live in this crazy worldwhere information's everywhere,
and a lot of it's terribleinformation, and some of it's
good.
Well, Dr.
SPEAKER_01 (27:23):
Xame always says, What's what's the evidence base?
Right, you know, it one degreeof evidence, two degrees, three
degrees.
He g he rates the the evidence.
Yes, you know, I mean that'swhat helped me uh you know, a
five-degree uh he rates theevidence, and then you should be
(27:44):
able to make a decision based onthe rating of of how much
evidence you got.
You know, when you're in thecourt of law and the jury's in
there, uh you hit you get you'retrying to convict somebody on
hearsay, right?
It's pretty tough.
Yeah, but when you got thesmoking gun, right, you know,
the jury can vote.
And so the same with the cancertreatment.
(28:07):
If you have a high degree ofevidence to what you should try
to do, there's a good chancethat that might help you.
SPEAKER_00 (28:16):
And at least start there and put your energy to
there until you've exhaustedthat or have you.
SPEAKER_01 (28:23):
Yeah, and people it it it Dr.
X-May put it to me.
He comes, visits us about onceor twice a month.
It's always a great educationfor me.
Sit down with him.
SPEAKER_00 (28:34):
Yeah, um, I'm looking forward to sitting with
him one time, but every time.
SPEAKER_01 (28:38):
Oh boy, it's always things no school could be like
that.
Yeah, and uh he's saying, youknow, some people just get so
hooked on one uh anecdotalresult.
Oh, somebody took divermectinand they're cancer free.
Right, even if that's true,which I doubt, I I say, yeah,
(29:02):
there's a guy that fell out theseventh floor and he survived
too.
You want to try?
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (29:07):
Exactly.
And and you know, correlationand causation are seldom real
connected, like there's a lot ofthings that happen, and another
thing happens, and another thinghappens, and this other thing
happened that those other firstthings didn't cause.
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
But well, it's hard to know.
It's hard to know, and incancer, nothing's nothing's
absolute, nothing at all.
Right.
Um so we need to make informeddecisions.
I couldn't think of a better waythan being on our Zoom, right?
SPEAKER_00 (29:47):
Um we need to for the listeners that are new to
this podcast, every Sunday at 4p.m.
Pacific time, we have A Zoommeeting, and this is a group of
people from around the world whohave used these principles of a
(30:11):
low methionine diet andmethionine A's and some other
form of therapy.
SPEAKER_01 (30:20):
And most of the successful patients have taken
first-line chemo as well.
The standard is great therapythat we try to make work better.
SPEAKER_00 (30:32):
And it's it's always a combination of things, and
everybody's cancers are unique.
And that's a big part of themessage with this podcast is
don't do what I did, but learnthe way I learned.
Yeah, that's where very wellput, Joe.
Yeah, and and find out foryourself what you need.
And my guess is that the thingsthat I did will probably help
(30:57):
you, but you might need to dosome things different.
You might need a different chemodrug, or you might need to add
more of something or less ofsomething.
But but learn your own problemand learn it as well as you can,
and then take the time to startwith the beginning.
That lumathion diet, as far as Iknow, will help everybody who
(31:24):
has cancer.
Like, unless everybody should beon it.
SPEAKER_01 (31:28):
That's a basic.
Yes, surely a basic.
I mean, that's basically knownsince 1959.
Um that's a no-brainer.
Then you start from there andthen you go to the next step and
the next and the next.
Exactly.
But being on a low methioninediet, there's no downside as
(31:48):
long as you just concentrate alittle bit and keep your
calories okay.
SPEAKER_00 (31:52):
Um and frankly, even if you that's a that's a basic,
it would be a good healthy diet.
I think most people oh, it's areal life-lengthening diet,
right?
Right.
And it and it takes some things,some principles that people, you
know, think about, even vegans,you know, they're everybody's so
(32:14):
concerned about protein,protein, protein.
But unless you're a majorbodybuilder or a fireman or
somebody that is just workingout like hardcore all the time,
you probably are consuming waymore protein than you need.
SPEAKER_01 (32:30):
And Joe, it's not better for you.
You've probably seen some bulls,haven't you?
Sure.
That's all from grass, right?
SPEAKER_00 (32:41):
Or a gorilla.
Or a gorilla.
You know, you want to thinkabout a strong animal, you know,
they talk about the strength ofa gorilla, you know, and they
eat fruit.
They eat fruit, you know, fruitand leaves, and and you know,
like you said, a bull, a horse.
You know, you ever ridden ahorse and the power and the the
(33:03):
strength and the muscles in thathorse?
And that horse eats what?
Alfalfa and hay and grass.
And yeah, it's got a digestivesystem that processes it a
little better than what we do.
But we don't have to eat hay andgrass.
We can eat fruits and vegetablesand and all sorts of more
complex foods that don'tnecessarily have a ton of
(33:25):
protein in them.
And we can build the samemuscles, the same organs, the
same everything, and and havethis level of health that, you
know, in my opinion, for me, themost important piece was that it
weakened the cancer and it madeit susceptible.
(33:46):
You bet.
SPEAKER_01 (33:46):
And Joe, you know, this you're worried about your
protein?
Okay.
Ask in your blood test totalprotein, albumin, pre-albumin,
you can measure all that stuff.
Oh, yeah.
And mine's checking.
It's not working, you know,we're not flying blind here.
Oh, yeah, what was your number?
What's your blood test say?
SPEAKER_00 (34:07):
And generally mine shows up low, but it's just a
little bit low.
Yeah.
I look at the threshold, and youknow, as long as my uh immune
system is responding andeverything else.
Yeah, and and you're not gettingyou're not getting anemic.
Right.
And I'm not having you know,side effects that are because of
(34:30):
the low protein and low albumin,then I'm okay.
Like the the markers that theyhave, even that is a range.
Like you they don't know whatyour idea is.
It's a range, it's a range.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:48):
And you know, get your numbers every month.
What what the heck?
SPEAKER_00 (34:57):
It's so logical.
That has been one of Dr.
Song's most um notable actionsis that every time I see him,
even if I go just for a checkup,he pulls blood and he evaluates
it every single time.
(35:19):
And I have probably I don'tknow, 20 sets of blood panels
that I can go back and look at,and I can see, you know, this
sort of cycle of where I was, Iknow what I've been doing with
my diet, with my appetite, withthe chemo effects, and I can
(35:40):
say, well, even in the worst,worst, worst, or when I was
fasting prior to the chemo, Istill maintained a level that
was acceptable.
And, you know, the hominex, thethe medical food, that's been
instrumental in that because Iknow I can take that and I can
get all these amino hominx isjust great.
(36:01):
Yeah, it's been a big part of myjourney in that yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:05):
I mean, it's got 19 amino acids, everything except
methionine, right?
SPEAKER_00 (36:11):
Um, tons of calories, right?
SPEAKER_01 (36:16):
And vitamins, minerals, all of it.
Um, the kids, the kids who havethose gen genetic diseases where
they uh build up thehomocysteine to enormous levels
because they can't processmethionine, right?
Right.
(36:37):
They they have to eat that alltheir life.
SPEAKER_00 (36:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:41):
And and they can do it.
SPEAKER_00 (36:42):
Yeah.
No, I totally agree.
I I I just know, and it's it'sfunny because I sent that
article to a couple of doctorsand a couple of people that work
with doctors on a pretty highlevel.
And the insight that thesepeople had, they said, Wow,
(37:04):
you're able to help a lot ofpeople with this information.
And they understood the value ofthis work.
All these papers that youpublish, it's not just to
whatever, get your name outthere, it's not just to say,
look what I did, but we'redeveloping an understanding of a
(37:26):
thing that's going to savelives, that does save lives.
And eventually, I believe thatwith the people like me and
Scott and you and Dave and allthese people that are and
Shahiro and and and people thatare sharing our stories and and
and living it and anddemonstrating the value, I think
(37:49):
it's going to keep growing.
That that the it's growing, Joe.
There's no question it'sgrowing.
Yeah.
And and that's good.
And and that paradigm isshifting.
It's not shifting fast.
It's not but it's shifting, butit is shifting.
And every time one more doctortakes a look at that and and and
(38:12):
reads it over a second time, youknow that they're starting to
see this thing that's real.
But they wouldn't never see itif they didn't have this
peer-reviewed evidence-basedreport that validates it.
And that is so critical.
And for that, Dr.
(38:33):
Hoffman, I'm so grateful thatyou and your team were able to
um compile this.
And you know, I was more thanglad to give you anything you
needed, and I would have done itagain.
SPEAKER_01 (38:43):
I couldn't have written it without your your you
supplied all the data, Joe.
Well, we we just put it, we justformatted it.
You did the part I didn't knowhow to do, and I did the part it
was, you know, it was just kindof almost automated because your
data are so fantastic.
And and the beauty of it, Imean, they're just out of this
(39:06):
world data, right?
SPEAKER_00 (39:08):
And and and the beauty is we know exactly what
we did, and the evidence showsexactly what happened.
And again, we're not making aconclusion about it other than
we did this and we got that, andthat's it.
SPEAKER_01 (39:23):
Exactly.
That that's exactly right.
We did this and we got that,right?
SPEAKER_00 (39:27):
And and every time that we're able to do that, now
we have a Scott and a Shahiro,and we have more, you know, that
there's there's people on theZoom that don't talk much like
Joanne.
SPEAKER_01 (39:39):
She's got a complete response to her uh chronic
lymphocytic leukemia.
Uh, I don't know if uh Wanda'sstill on.
She's got looks like she wentinto remission on her on her
rectal cancer, little girl withbrain cancer.
She's alive years more thanshe's predicted to be.
SPEAKER_00 (40:03):
And it's got some fantastic people.
One of these case studies, andyou start to put it up on the
wall, it's like the detectivetrying to solve a murder
mystery, and they put all thesepieces up on the wall, and
eventually it starts showing apicture.
And I think that's what we'restarting to do here.
That's right.
(40:24):
So, well, Robert, as always,it's been a pleasure for me too,
Joe.
I hope a million people watchthis podcast.
I do too, and and I'm just soexcited that it's finally, you
know, not only is the tumorfinally gone, but the report is
out there now, and it'll it'snow a beacon that people can see
(40:47):
and uh learn from and start toexplore similar case studies.
So again, can't share enoughgratitude with you and your
team.
SPEAKER_01 (40:57):
And uh we say we the we have the same gratitude to
you for the I love it for thefantastic result you got.
SPEAKER_00 (41:06):
And that's what the being a part of a team is all
about.
Well, folks, this has beenanother episode of the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grombine, andI want to thank everybody that
has made this show possible.
And Dr.
Hoffman, always we're gratefulfor you.
Always, Joe.
SPEAKER_01 (41:23):
I'm grateful to be on.
Looking forward to the next one.
And I hope we've reached morecancer patients every week.
I love it, and we'll see you allnext time.
Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andtoday we have back Dr.
Robert Hoffman.
And uh we're always excited totalk to you, Robert.
Welcome to the show.
Nice to be here, Joe, always.
So we had a big week this week.
We had a kind of a milestonethat we hit, and um, you know,
(00:27):
we talk a lot about informationand um you know where you're
getting it from.
And I don't know how many timesI've heard people present
something to you, and yourresponse is usually show me the
published paper.
And um, well, uh now I can say,here you go.
So um you've been working onthis case study of my case for a
(00:53):
couple of months now, gatheringall the intel, the pictures, the
reports.
SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
Well, that's all you you sent that wonderful set of
photos that showed your tumormelting away day by day, and you
sent the very nice um uh MRI orCT.
SPEAKER_00 (01:12):
Right.
And and you you and your wholeteam was able to uh put that
together and uh create anarrative of what we did, the
protocol, and um just the thewhole the whole strategy that we
had.
Why don't you kind of walk usthrough how you guys assemble
(01:37):
all that?
You know, I mean it seems likewhen when you read the thing, it
looks like wow, that'd be easyto do, but I know it has to be
done in a particular way with aparticular format and a
particular uh type ofinformation put in a specific
way, and you guys know how to dothat pretty well.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
Yeah, uh it wasn't very hard, Joe, because the
results were so good.
Basically, uh with the kind ofresults that you gave us, it was
a piece of cake.
Um it's hard to write somethingup when you have a marginal
result.
You know, what am I talkingabout?
Yeah, maybe hedge here, hedgethere.
(02:24):
No hedge in here.
So we had two figures, themulti-paneled figure of about 30
of your pictures.
SPEAKER_00 (02:35):
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
It's you took.
Thank God you did that.
SPEAKER_00 (02:39):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:40):
And the tumor just melting away.
It's just unbelievable.
And uh then you got the you wewe you helped me and you gave to
me the the beautiful scan.
We put that in, and everythingjust fell in pace.
You know, basically a paper hasa title, an abstract, an intro,
(03:04):
the methods, the results, and adiscussion and references.
And in this case, it was it waseasy.
Um we had to wait a little whilebecause you get in line.
You know, we send it in, they reit was re peer reviewed, okay,
(03:26):
accepted, and finally they theysend some proofs, you look at
them, you check them, and I'm areal stickler.
I went through about five proofuh rounds with them.
They they hate me for it, but Itry to get things you know best
I can.
(03:47):
And uh then uh you were lined upfor uh the November issue, and
here we are.
So and it's out, it's out, andthat journal has a really good
path to PubMed.
Not all journals do, right?
Right, and they were on almostimmediately, even in the
(04:08):
shutdown.
There's some angel taking careof PubMed.
It's a government website.
I don't know who's taking careof it, but somebody's taking
care of it.
SPEAKER_00 (04:18):
I was surprised because I know when you uh sent
me the article from the journal,uh, we talked about PubMed, and
you were saying, well, it mightbe a while because you know the
and it went on that veryevening, right?
Right, and the next morning,boom, here we are.
So we are, yeah.
In this case, like the wholeworld sees it now, Joe.
(04:39):
I love it, I love it.
Well, I've already shared itwith a number of physicians and
um um and a number of peoplethat you know I I I know that
they're kind of watching what Ido, but you know, I'm just a
layman.
I don't have that that degree ofof you know expertise to say,
(05:02):
well, this nobody does show.
SPEAKER_01 (05:04):
We can't all we can know from this paper is that you
got better, right?
Uh was it the chemo itself orwas it the chemo along with the
methionase?
Well, our hypothesis is it wasthe combo, but we can't prove
it, and we don't care, yeah.
And we're not even trying to.
Uh in in some cases, even if wetried, we couldn't do it.
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (05:27):
It's not a clinical trial, it's a case report.
And in the journal's table ofcontents, it was listed under
case reports right about that.
And um, so that's what it is,it's a case report, right?
People can say whatever theywant, I don't care.
Right.
Well, what we care about is thatyou're all better.
SPEAKER_00 (05:47):
Oh, yeah.
That's and that is uh objectivenumber one.
You know, that was what this wasall about to meet.
And it it was a reallyunexpected result, right?
SPEAKER_01 (05:59):
And that lends you to think your hypothesis that it
was the combination, it may havea good chance of being correct.
Um, we'll never know.
Well, I don't want to go backand find out a second time.
I'll tell you that we don't getthose kind of responses very
often.
SPEAKER_00 (06:16):
Well, especially with this cancer that I had,
it's uh generally a veryaggressive irradiate you to
hell, yeah.
Yeah, and and I would have been,you know, I went back and I
looked at the um at the originaluh records of the uh radio
(06:36):
oncologist, and his notes werevery clear about how he had
discussed with me all of thepotential negative side effects,
and you know, including gettinga G2 put in and uh you know
losing weight and not being ableto eat, not being able to
swallow, um, salivary glandsfalling apart, um, vertebrae
(07:02):
collapsing, um, teeth fallingout.
I mean, and the list goes on andon and on of not just potential
but likely side effects.
Because, you know, your neck isa is a high traffic area.
There's everything going on inyour neck.
You got bones, you got muscle,you got nerves, you got
(07:23):
arteries, you got veins, yougot, I mean, everything is going
through there.
You got your lymphatic.
SPEAKER_01 (07:32):
I mean, just and all your food goes down it, and all
the air goes down it.
SPEAKER_00 (07:36):
Right, everything you need, and yeah, not only
that, but stones throw away fromyour brain, a stones throw away
from your lungs, like yeah, it'sreally not the place you want to
be blowing up with radiation.
No, and they were more than gladto do it, and um well that's
their that's their mainguideline, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:58):
That's what they've been taught to do, that's what
they're paid to do, right?
Uh that they think that's thebest, and um we just went with
logic.
Well, can't we try the chemofirst?
Right.
Can we see that if we need theradiation, we'll get it?
SPEAKER_00 (08:20):
Can we try the chemo, please?
It just makes sense.
Like, you know, the HippocraticOath is supposed to include this
sort of, I don't know, prettyimportant phrase about harming
none, right?
SPEAKER_01 (08:36):
Isn't that the the the first rule the Hippocratic
oath is do no harm?
SPEAKER_00 (08:41):
Right, that's the first principle, and and and you
would think that would be prettyhigh on the list of like, well,
you know, we have this choice ofthings we could do.
Let's start with the thing thatwill harm the least and work our
way up.
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
They don't I think they don't think that way.
Their guidelines say this is thebest chance, right?
And they say if we don't giveyou the best chance, we're not
doing right by you.
Right.
That's what they think.
Yeah, that's what they'retaught.
Maybe that's their experience.
I don't know.
Um it it's they don't want toharm you.
(09:17):
No, no, they don't they theywant you to get better, um, but
that's all they know, right?
That's all they know, and you'rea chemo doc.
Uh thank god she was open-mindedenough to just give you chemo.
SPEAKER_00 (09:33):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
Um, and then you kind of use that up and and went
to Dr.
Song and got one of the greatestin the world.
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
Oh my goodness, I I I am just so tickled that um,
you know, there's just in myopinion, there's been a series
of miracles that have takenplace through this.
And you know, a miracle isgenerally the result of a lot of
hard work and and you know,doing everything you can and
(10:03):
thinking the right thoughts andeverything put together, but
call it whatever you want.
But just the fact that you know,when this thing was growing and
I I couldn't get the dentalclearance because I didn't know
better.
Remember, in the beginning, Iwas gonna go forward with
everything they were requestingbecause I had to do something.
(10:24):
And when I couldn't get thedental clearance, that was the
first sort of I don't know, thatwas that was good luck.
It was the best thing could havehappened because it it slowed
down my ability to get anythingdone.
And at that point, the tumor wasgrowing pretty dramatically, in
spite of the diet, themethionase, all the other things
(10:46):
I was doing.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
It was they just weren't powerful enough for that
kind of tumor.
SPEAKER_00 (10:50):
It had it has to be the combination.
It had already dug in and and uhit had already built a
superhighway, it had its uh youknow, blood system in place, it
was it knew what knew what itwas doing, and it was growing
like crazy.
I remember when they stuck thatcamera down my nose, and I
(11:11):
looked at that thing in the backof my tongue, and I saw it.
I still can close my eyes andand see that thing, and it was
like uh, if you could describeit, it looked scaly, but the
scales were slimy, and it wasjust like I could see the thing
almost breathing, you know.
It was like it was it wasstaying alive, it was growing,
(11:35):
it was it was probably the mostlively tissue in your body.
Oh man, yeah, you could justlook at it, it almost like
breathed at me, you know, andthat just got my attention like
nobody's business.
I mean, it wasn't bad enough.
I had a grapefruit sticking outof my neck, but when you look
that thing in the eye, whoo! Itell you what, it it it really
(11:59):
um it focused my attention tothe point that you know we
started talking more and more,and um, you know, you you
suggested this neo-adjuvantsolution, and you know, it it
kind of blows me away that thedoctors don't always go after a
(12:20):
neo-adjuvant solution.
Like the more research is nottheir guidelines, I know, but
the more research you do onsurgery, it's the most likely
route to cause you problems inthe future because the
likelihood of them gettingeverything, even if they do like
uh it's almost zero, no matterwhat they say, right?
(12:44):
Because they can't see it, theycan only see the part they can
see, and yeah, you know, theythey go after like sometimes on
a skinned one where they keepcutting off a piece and then
they look at it under themicroscope and they cut off
another piece.
SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
I guess they have a chance of taking that out that
way because you can yeah, I hadthat on my ear 21 years ago and
it never came back, right?
And that's exactly what theydid, right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
And and but you can't do that inside.
Nope.
You can only do that on theoutside.
SPEAKER_01 (13:16):
So when you got it, I was in the doctor's chair and
we'd go to the microscopetogether, see how we're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (13:22):
Yeah, and I can I can understand that to me.
That surgery is a viablesolution, and you know, for
anybody who has a skin lesion orsome type of uh precancerous
growth.
SPEAKER_01 (13:37):
Oh Joe, they would have taken out part of your jaw,
they would have taken out theback of your tongue.
SPEAKER_00 (13:43):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
Oh my god, what they would have done.
SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
Well, and I've seen so many images of people that
have had surgery that was noteven nearly as bad as mine to
start with.
You know, they showed a tumorthat was like how mine was a
year and a half ago, and and youknow, a fraction of the size,
and they still leave thesegaping holes and taking out
(14:08):
pieces of bone and taking out,you know, it would take out a
part of your tongue, noquestion.
Yeah.
And you know, for me, I a bigpart of my life is talking, you
know.
I do this podcast, I teachpeople, I I I am I'm I use my
voice as part of my way of lifeand my living.
(14:30):
It would have probably affectedmy voice to the point where I
would not have been able to dothe thing.
SPEAKER_01 (14:37):
You couldn't use your mouth properly, probably
for months.
I can't imagine how you wouldeat.
SPEAKER_00 (14:42):
Right, exactly.
And and and that's not evengetting into the the salivary
glands, and you know, I I keeplooking at these um, you know,
this group that I'm in, and theconstant complaints of you know,
the my my saliva is like paste,and I can't even swallow at all.
(15:05):
Um, you know, I'm I'm I'm I'velost you know 40 pounds and and
I I can't, you know, I can'tkeep any weight on, even with
the you know, the G tube.
And and and and then people comeback, and here's the part that
really gets me.
I don't know how many times I'veseen, you know, six months, a
(15:28):
year, two years after a surgery,and even the radiation, and then
they'll come back and say, itshowed up in my lungs, it showed
up in my lymph nodes, it showedup somewhere else, and now we
got to start all over again.
And they already went throughthis grueling hell of weeks or
months of of this torturoustreatment, and then they're
(15:52):
looking at maybe doing it allover again.
I couldn't even imagine.
So when when it comes topublishing an article on a
peer-reviewed periodical andthen submitting it to PubMed,
where it's like a clearinghouseof all these different articles,
(16:14):
there are different categoriesof of papers that are that are
published.
And I've seen clinical trials,I've seen um, you know, case
studies, I've seen, why don'tyou tell us a little bit about
the types of information that'spublished and maybe the
standards that are held, youknow, to this.
(16:37):
Because when you look atsomething in a in a site like
PubMed, you go, well, I I givethat way more credence than I do
the guys' you know website orthe blog or whatever else things
are published on.
SPEAKER_01 (16:54):
Well, PubMed has really democratized science.
Uh it's a free website.
It's got over 41 millionscientific publications on it.
Um the abstract of all of themare free.
The full paper of a goodpercentage of them are free.
(17:17):
Um every kind of study you canimagine is there.
They don't there's no criteriafor the type of study.
They don't let every journal on.
They have to the journal has topass some credibility tests to
get listed by PubMed.
(17:38):
There's some journals that arenot listed by PubMed, and I
avoid them.
Some of them I maybe like alittle bit, but no way.
And some of the fancy journalshave these what so-called very
big impact factor numbers.
Uh that means how often they getcited.
(18:00):
And some of the journals onPubMed have a very small impact
number, but you can't tell thaton PubMed.
It's very democratic.
So the fanciest nature paper islisted right alongside the r the
you know, the journals that arenot so fancy.
And um I'm very grateful for thejournal we published in.
(18:24):
We published there a lot.
It's so open-minded.
Um they want to publish thingsthat are good for science and
not to promote their journal,get more citations, whatever,
whatever.
No, they want to have goodscience.
So PubMed is very democratic.
(18:48):
Um, you can't by the list, youdon't know which is the high
impact journal, fancy fancy,cost ten thousand dollars to
publish in.
SPEAKER_00 (18:57):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (18:58):
Or the little guy that publishes a lot of good
stuff.
All on the same list.
SPEAKER_00 (19:07):
You have been very prolific with your uh articles
that have been published, and umI have looked at a number of
them, but there's you publishedtwenty-three papers just this
(19:30):
year alone, according to whatI'm looking at.
And there's a a a wide varietyof of papers that you're
publishing, and they go, itlooks like a lot of them are um
experiments, and you've got thisamazing team of people, and it
(19:54):
it's not always the same team onevery no, some of it's
collaboration, Joe.
SPEAKER_01 (20:00):
Right, right.
We have groups with our groupwith another group.
We have that too.
SPEAKER_00 (20:08):
And and so tell me about, you know, a lot of these,
I I they look like they'rethey're an experiment or a study
on a um, you know, not notsomebody's case study, but um
and but in some cases they are.
(20:28):
I mean, you're looking at umbreast cancer, you're looking at
pancreatic cancer, but some ofthese are in animals.
You've got micro.
SPEAKER_01 (20:39):
Some of them are just in the dish.
So, what we've been trying to dothe last couple years is try to
find the best synergy of chemoand methioninase, and we've done
this in a number of differentways to show what especially we
want to see what's synergisticwith methioninase and different
(21:02):
kinds of chemo that affect thecancer cell but are not
synergistic and have a minimaleffect on the normal cell.
And a lot of people don't dothat, I don't understand it.
Oh, this kills the cancer, andthat kills the cancer, and
here's the best way to kill thecancer.
Well, did you try it on thenormal cells?
SPEAKER_00 (21:23):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (21:24):
Exactly.
I mean, you know, I think thekid in fourth grade might ask
that question.
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
Right.
Maybe third grade.
You can kill a cancer cellpretty easy, just put a little
bleach on it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:36):
That's all you need to do.
It'll die, but put that I meanthe during the COVID, the
president was ready to injecthimself with Clorox.
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
Uh, I remember.
SPEAKER_01 (21:46):
I remember.
Um, so uh yeah, the the idea is,and the difficulty is how do you
kill the cancer cell withoutkilling the patient?
This is what it's all about.
SPEAKER_00 (22:02):
Well, and just recently you did a study um with
uh what was it, cysteine and ummethionine kind of side by side,
and you restricted the cysteineand we haven't published that.
That's gonna come out soon, Joe.
I'll I'll keep quiet on that onethen.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
Yeah, no, you don't have to keep quiet on it.
It it turns out when yourestrict cysteine, it's not a
cancer-specific vulnerability.
SPEAKER_00 (22:31):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (22:32):
You zap the normal cells the same as you zap the
cancer cells.
When you restrict methionine,you zap the cancer cells, and
the normal cells hang in there.
SPEAKER_00 (22:40):
And and I mean, like you said, I can't think of a
more important factor.
And and there are people outthere talking about cysteine
restriction.
SPEAKER_01 (22:52):
Oh, up the yin yang, cysteine, cysteine, cysteine,
feroptosis, cysteine, cysteine.
Uh it it the that's one of themost popular things now.
And I say, hey fellas, whathappens on the normal cells?
Right.
And that's uh our our youngscientist, uh, Utah from he said
(23:14):
he hasn't even been here a yearfrom Japan yet.
Right.
About and did it.
Yep.
You this you take away cysteine,you zap the cancer cells, yay!
You take away cysteine, you zapthe can the normal cells, boo
right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:30):
And so the reality is, and I think we have one of
the members of our group thatmaybe has been a victim of this
to some degree, probably it'smore complicated than that, but
um, when you're going after, youknow, this cysteine restriction
by whatever means, maybe it'susing a selenium compound or or
(23:52):
going after this feroptosis umreaction, and the goal of that
in large amount is to remove thecysteine from your diet um and
and remove it just likemethioninase does, takes out the
methionine.
Well, when you have somebodylike Gabriella who who is
(24:18):
compromised already, and she'sgoing through trying to solve
her problem, and she's workingwith this system of compounds
and diet and all the differentthings she was doing to try to
you know remove the cysteine.
I can't help but wonder with thecomplications she's had, that
(24:42):
maybe that didn't make thingsworse for her.
SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
It may have.
The thing I worry most, it mayhave.
The thing I worry most abouther, she's not getting chemo.
The doctor said, Oh, the windowof treatment is closed.
Can you imagine a doctor sayingthat?
No, I would say give it to meanyways.
Let's find out.
Um, she needs another doctor,and yeah, it seems like she's
(25:07):
all by herself.
There's nobody kind of advisingher or what I don't, I don't I
don't really know her situation.
And Dr.
Xame keeps giving her goodadvice on the Zoom meeting, and
she doesn't seem to understandit.
I don't know.
I I it I feel it it's hersituation, she needs help.
SPEAKER_00 (25:32):
Yeah, no, I agree.
I think I've talked to her onthe side several times, and uh,
you know, I told her anytime shecan get a word with Dr.
Exame that you know she shouldtake heed.
I mean, he's been between youand him, um, before Dr.
Sung, I was getting a lot ofgood guidance that helped me in
(25:55):
in my own research, and youknow, spending time in here and
not over there, because you guysalready had experience with some
of the things I was looking at,and it was instrumental and not
wasting my time.
You know, Dr.
Exume's and yours, both of yourthought is well, you you've got
(26:19):
always many choices, but you canrule out some things pretty
quickly, and you can decidewhere to spend your time pretty
quickly as far as what's mostlikely to do the most good and
the least amount of harm.
I think if you start weighingoptions out that way prior to
just you know trying things, butyou know, when you have cancer,
(26:43):
most people that I run into arejust almost frantic.
And and you know, they get hit,we get we get hit with this
information that says this thingthat you now are aware of,
you've had it probably for along time, but you're now aware
of it.
And if you don't take somepretty dramatic uh action, it's
(27:06):
gonna get worse and eventuallyovercome you.
And so when you have to reckonwith that, a lot of times, and
then we live in this crazy worldwhere information's everywhere,
and a lot of it's terribleinformation, and some of it's
good.
Well, Dr.
SPEAKER_01 (27:23):
Xame always says, What's what's the evidence base?
Right, you know, it one degreeof evidence, two degrees, three
degrees.
He g he rates the the evidence.
Yes, you know, I mean that'swhat helped me uh you know, a
five-degree uh he rates theevidence, and then you should be
(27:44):
able to make a decision based onthe rating of of how much
evidence you got.
You know, when you're in thecourt of law and the jury's in
there, uh you hit you get you'retrying to convict somebody on
hearsay, right?
It's pretty tough.
Yeah, but when you got thesmoking gun, right, you know,
the jury can vote.
And so the same with the cancertreatment.
(28:07):
If you have a high degree ofevidence to what you should try
to do, there's a good chancethat that might help you.
SPEAKER_00 (28:16):
And at least start there and put your energy to
there until you've exhaustedthat or have you.
SPEAKER_01 (28:23):
Yeah, and people it it it Dr.
X-May put it to me.
He comes, visits us about onceor twice a month.
It's always a great educationfor me.
Sit down with him.
SPEAKER_00 (28:34):
Yeah, um, I'm looking forward to sitting with
him one time, but every time.
SPEAKER_01 (28:38):
Oh boy, it's always things no school could be like
that.
Yeah, and uh he's saying, youknow, some people just get so
hooked on one uh anecdotalresult.
Oh, somebody took divermectinand they're cancer free.
Right, even if that's true,which I doubt, I I say, yeah,
(29:02):
there's a guy that fell out theseventh floor and he survived
too.
You want to try?
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (29:07):
Exactly.
And and you know, correlationand causation are seldom real
connected, like there's a lot ofthings that happen, and another
thing happens, and another thinghappens, and this other thing
happened that those other firstthings didn't cause.
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
But well, it's hard to know.
It's hard to know, and incancer, nothing's nothing's
absolute, nothing at all.
Right.
Um so we need to make informeddecisions.
I couldn't think of a better waythan being on our Zoom, right?
SPEAKER_00 (29:47):
Um we need to for the listeners that are new to
this podcast, every Sunday at 4p.m.
Pacific time, we have A Zoommeeting, and this is a group of
people from around the world whohave used these principles of a
(30:11):
low methionine diet andmethionine A's and some other
form of therapy.
SPEAKER_01 (30:20):
And most of the successful patients have taken
first-line chemo as well.
The standard is great therapythat we try to make work better.
SPEAKER_00 (30:32):
And it's it's always a combination of things, and
everybody's cancers are unique.
And that's a big part of themessage with this podcast is
don't do what I did, but learnthe way I learned.
Yeah, that's where very wellput, Joe.
Yeah, and and find out foryourself what you need.
And my guess is that the thingsthat I did will probably help
(30:57):
you, but you might need to dosome things different.
You might need a different chemodrug, or you might need to add
more of something or less ofsomething.
But but learn your own problemand learn it as well as you can,
and then take the time to startwith the beginning.
That lumathion diet, as far as Iknow, will help everybody who
(31:24):
has cancer.
Like, unless everybody should beon it.
SPEAKER_01 (31:28):
That's a basic.
Yes, surely a basic.
I mean, that's basically knownsince 1959.
Um that's a no-brainer.
Then you start from there andthen you go to the next step and
the next and the next.
Exactly.
But being on a low methioninediet, there's no downside as
(31:48):
long as you just concentrate alittle bit and keep your
calories okay.
SPEAKER_00 (31:52):
Um and frankly, even if you that's a that's a basic,
it would be a good healthy diet.
I think most people oh, it's areal life-lengthening diet,
right?
Right.
And it and it takes some things,some principles that people, you
know, think about, even vegans,you know, they're everybody's so
(32:14):
concerned about protein,protein, protein.
But unless you're a majorbodybuilder or a fireman or
somebody that is just workingout like hardcore all the time,
you probably are consuming waymore protein than you need.
SPEAKER_01 (32:30):
And Joe, it's not better for you.
You've probably seen some bulls,haven't you?
Sure.
That's all from grass, right?
SPEAKER_00 (32:41):
Or a gorilla.
Or a gorilla.
You know, you want to thinkabout a strong animal, you know,
they talk about the strength ofa gorilla, you know, and they
eat fruit.
They eat fruit, you know, fruitand leaves, and and you know,
like you said, a bull, a horse.
You know, you ever ridden ahorse and the power and the the
(33:03):
strength and the muscles in thathorse?
And that horse eats what?
Alfalfa and hay and grass.
And yeah, it's got a digestivesystem that processes it a
little better than what we do.
But we don't have to eat hay andgrass.
We can eat fruits and vegetablesand and all sorts of more
complex foods that don'tnecessarily have a ton of
(33:25):
protein in them.
And we can build the samemuscles, the same organs, the
same everything, and and havethis level of health that, you
know, in my opinion, for me, themost important piece was that it
weakened the cancer and it madeit susceptible.
(33:46):
You bet.
SPEAKER_01 (33:46):
And Joe, you know, this you're worried about your
protein?
Okay.
Ask in your blood test totalprotein, albumin, pre-albumin,
you can measure all that stuff.
Oh, yeah.
And mine's checking.
It's not working, you know,we're not flying blind here.
Oh, yeah, what was your number?
What's your blood test say?
SPEAKER_00 (34:07):
And generally mine shows up low, but it's just a
little bit low.
Yeah.
I look at the threshold, and youknow, as long as my uh immune
system is responding andeverything else.
Yeah, and and you're not gettingyou're not getting anemic.
Right.
And I'm not having you know,side effects that are because of
(34:30):
the low protein and low albumin,then I'm okay.
Like the the markers that theyhave, even that is a range.
Like you they don't know whatyour idea is.
It's a range, it's a range.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:48):
And you know, get your numbers every month.
What what the heck?
SPEAKER_00 (34:57):
It's so logical.
That has been one of Dr.
Song's most um notable actionsis that every time I see him,
even if I go just for a checkup,he pulls blood and he evaluates
it every single time.
(35:19):
And I have probably I don'tknow, 20 sets of blood panels
that I can go back and look at,and I can see, you know, this
sort of cycle of where I was, Iknow what I've been doing with
my diet, with my appetite, withthe chemo effects, and I can
(35:40):
say, well, even in the worst,worst, worst, or when I was
fasting prior to the chemo, Istill maintained a level that
was acceptable.
And, you know, the hominex, thethe medical food, that's been
instrumental in that because Iknow I can take that and I can
get all these amino hominx isjust great.
(36:01):
Yeah, it's been a big part of myjourney in that yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:05):
I mean, it's got 19 amino acids, everything except
methionine, right?
SPEAKER_00 (36:11):
Um, tons of calories, right?
SPEAKER_01 (36:16):
And vitamins, minerals, all of it.
Um, the kids, the kids who havethose gen genetic diseases where
they uh build up thehomocysteine to enormous levels
because they can't processmethionine, right?
Right.
(36:37):
They they have to eat that alltheir life.
SPEAKER_00 (36:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:41):
And and they can do it.
SPEAKER_00 (36:42):
Yeah.
No, I totally agree.
I I I just know, and it's it'sfunny because I sent that
article to a couple of doctorsand a couple of people that work
with doctors on a pretty highlevel.
And the insight that thesepeople had, they said, Wow,
(37:04):
you're able to help a lot ofpeople with this information.
And they understood the value ofthis work.
All these papers that youpublish, it's not just to
whatever, get your name outthere, it's not just to say,
look what I did, but we'redeveloping an understanding of a
(37:26):
thing that's going to savelives, that does save lives.
And eventually, I believe thatwith the people like me and
Scott and you and Dave and allthese people that are and
Shahiro and and and people thatare sharing our stories and and
and living it and anddemonstrating the value, I think
(37:49):
it's going to keep growing.
That that the it's growing, Joe.
There's no question it'sgrowing.
Yeah.
And and that's good.
And and that paradigm isshifting.
It's not shifting fast.
It's not but it's shifting, butit is shifting.
And every time one more doctortakes a look at that and and and
(38:12):
reads it over a second time, youknow that they're starting to
see this thing that's real.
But they wouldn't never see itif they didn't have this
peer-reviewed evidence-basedreport that validates it.
And that is so critical.
And for that, Dr.
(38:33):
Hoffman, I'm so grateful thatyou and your team were able to
um compile this.
And you know, I was more thanglad to give you anything you
needed, and I would have done itagain.
SPEAKER_01 (38:43):
I couldn't have written it without your your you
supplied all the data, Joe.
Well, we we just put it, we justformatted it.
You did the part I didn't knowhow to do, and I did the part it
was, you know, it was just kindof almost automated because your
data are so fantastic.
And and the beauty of it, Imean, they're just out of this
(39:06):
world data, right?
SPEAKER_00 (39:08):
And and and the beauty is we know exactly what
we did, and the evidence showsexactly what happened.
And again, we're not making aconclusion about it other than
we did this and we got that, andthat's it.
SPEAKER_01 (39:23):
Exactly.
That that's exactly right.
We did this and we got that,right?
SPEAKER_00 (39:27):
And and every time that we're able to do that, now
we have a Scott and a Shahiro,and we have more, you know, that
there's there's people on theZoom that don't talk much like
Joanne.
SPEAKER_01 (39:39):
She's got a complete response to her uh chronic
lymphocytic leukemia.
Uh, I don't know if uh Wanda'sstill on.
She's got looks like she wentinto remission on her on her
rectal cancer, little girl withbrain cancer.
She's alive years more thanshe's predicted to be.
SPEAKER_00 (40:03):
And it's got some fantastic people.
One of these case studies, andyou start to put it up on the
wall, it's like the detectivetrying to solve a murder
mystery, and they put all thesepieces up on the wall, and
eventually it starts showing apicture.
And I think that's what we'restarting to do here.
That's right.
(40:24):
So, well, Robert, as always,it's been a pleasure for me too,
Joe.
I hope a million people watchthis podcast.
I do too, and and I'm just soexcited that it's finally, you
know, not only is the tumorfinally gone, but the report is
out there now, and it'll it'snow a beacon that people can see
(40:47):
and uh learn from and start toexplore similar case studies.
So again, can't share enoughgratitude with you and your
team.
SPEAKER_01 (40:57):
And uh we say we the we have the same gratitude to
you for the I love it for thefantastic result you got.
SPEAKER_00 (41:06):
And that's what the being a part of a team is all
about.
Well, folks, this has beenanother episode of the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grombine, andI want to thank everybody that
has made this show possible.
And Dr.
Hoffman, always we're gratefulfor you.
Always, Joe.
SPEAKER_01 (41:23):
I'm grateful to be on.
Looking forward to the next one.
And I hope we've reached morecancer patients every week.
I love it, and we'll see you allnext time.
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