November 15, 2025 • 37 mins
What if a childhood built on criticism and distance teaches your nervous system to disappear? We sit with author and advocate Blair Sorell to uncover how schizoid personality disorder can form as a learned defense—and how clarity, therapy, and the right environment can turn fog into focus. Blair opens up about growing up between a terminally ill mother and an absent father, the slow drift from daydreaming to dysfunction, and the way school and work punish traits that once kept a child safe. Her story shows why labels can liberate when they finally explain the pain.
We dive into the hidden costs of misreading SPD: missed promotions, HR write-ups, social dread, and in the worst cases, homelessness when family scaffolding falls away. Blair shares practical, compassionate strategies—remote-friendly roles, life-skills scaffolding, and stepwise social exposure—that give room to recover without forcing anyone into a mold. She also draws a bright line between schizoid personality and schizophrenia, removing stigma by restoring nuance. The goal isn’t to make every introvert outgoing; it’s to make every person safe, housed, and healthy.
Threaded through it all is classic rock as an emotional lifeline. The Doors, Hendrix, and Lennon became proxies for feelings Blair couldn’t voice, proof that art can carry what speech can’t. That soundtrack helped her write a memoir during the pandemic, one chapter at a time, transforming isolation into momentum and memory into meaning. If you’ve ever been called lazy when you were really overwhelmed, or if you’re parenting a child who’s starting to pull away, this conversation offers language, tools, and hope.
If this resonates, follow and share the show, leave a review so others can find it, and tell us: what song says what you can’t say yet?
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SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andtoday we've got a very special
guest.
Her name is Blair Sorell, andshe's an author, an innovator,
and an animal lover.
And she was free timesdollar-wise dilettante com
columnist.
And uh together, dating servicesmatchmaker, and New York Blood
(00:25):
Services, Aphoresis Recruiter.
She founded Street Zaps toprotect dogs and people from
stray voltage, and was the firstcommunity representative invited
by Conn Edison to their annualJody S.
Lane Stray Voltage Detection,Mitigation and Prevention
National Conference.
(00:45):
She's got a memoir that we'regoing to get into called A
Schizoid at Smith (00:48):
How Overparenting Leads to
Underachieving.
And Blair, welcome to the show.
How are you doing today?
Fine, thank you for having me.
This is um kind of neat becauseI've got more of a background
since we already had sort of aconversation before, and um
(01:09):
really interested in learningmore about your book.
And I have a copy of your book.
I've read through a decentamount of it.
I haven't finished it, but I geta lot of books to read, so I I
do the best I can.
But it's your book is veryinteresting.
So for anybody who uh decides toget this, um, it'll it'll call
(01:29):
you in and keep you there.
Um I I really want to kind ofjump into usually I I I'll ask a
guest, you know, what broughtyou to this, but your book
really kind of tells that story.
And you know, why don't youexplain a little bit just about
the premise of the book?
(01:51):
Um, and I think that will reallytell the story about you know
you and how how you're how youmade it here to this
conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
Um, my life was at crossroads for a long time.
Uh, because of my schizoidcondition, I was unable to form
goals, make decisions, and so Ihad a quote unquote aimless, uh,
non-trajectory.
And I was living in New YorkCity, which is very careerist
(02:21):
and commercial, conservative.
I really felt out of sync, butout of sync wherever I was,
because the problem wasn't withNew York so much as with me
being anywhere and not beingable to focus, relate or relate
well to other people, um, beingin a chronic kind of fog that
(02:44):
undermined my ability tofunction, be it in a job or in
living circumstances, sustainingfriendships, and of course,
romantically.
I had a character disorderwithout realizing it.
And I suspect most schizoidsdon't know what they're dealing
(03:08):
with, except that they're in alot of pain and they don't have
any insight as to why.
Um, my circumstancesdownspiraled so much that I
eventually sought therapeuticintervention, but of course, not
for being schizoid.
I was depressed and anxious,which I had been long term, and
(03:28):
then I just had to get a handleon things.
And of course, my father wasvery relieved because you know
he had hoped, but you can'tforce anyone to do anything,
especially when it's so vitaland overdue.
SPEAKER_00 (03:49):
Well, you're your the title of your book tells a
lot, and it, you know, it talksabout how overparenting leads to
underachieving.
Um, you write about you know thechallenges of living with a
mother who you know withheldaffection and a father who was
hardly there.
Uh, why don't you share a littlebit about that experience and
(04:11):
and how that had such an impacton you, both with this uh you
know, schizoid personalitydisorder and just your your
adult life in general?
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
Well, if you don't feel loved as a child, it will
taint absolutely everything.
And my parents, there was a lotof strife between them.
Um, my mother had emotional andshe was also terminally ill
throughout my childhood.
I think my father absented a lotof the time because of her,
(04:47):
because he was avoiding uh theinteraction, her demands, but
also because um he didn't reallyknow how to deal with her.
I believe both of them were insituations they didn't want to
be in.
My mother was careerist and myfather wanted companionship, but
not the trappings of a family.
(05:08):
The truth of the matter is thatwe really didn't know him.
And um, as her illness andcancer worsened, we found
ourselves as children ultimatelywith a guardian we didn't really
know.
So um, very often with schizoid,the parents are neglectful or
(05:31):
abusive, and my parents wereboth.
They're not malicious, they werenot malicious people.
None of this was done toundermine, they were poor
parents.
But the net result was that Icouldn't focus because I had
been so demeaned and uh the uhwhen a child is met with
(05:54):
overwhelming criticism, the onlydefense he or she would have is
not to listen.
So they tuned out, and thatbecame a defense, a coping
mechanism from about the time Iwas five on.
It became problematic in school,and then with employers, they're
not going to pay you todaydream.
(06:14):
I want to be careful to note,however, that not every schizoid
is impaired, but I was veryimpaired.
And the more people around, thegreater the impairment.
It gave me a dread of authorityfigures, be they teachers or
bosses, terrible self-esteem, noconfidence, uh inability to, as
(06:36):
I said before, form any kind ofgoal or make any kind of
decision.
And um that would be lesssalient in school or college,
but of course, if somebody'spaying you, the demands are
greater.
So I I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
I said I I suspect that these symptoms or you know
just your experience ofstruggling came out pretty early
on in school.
When when did you when did yourealize that you were having a
hard time of things?
SPEAKER_01 (07:13):
Well, I was always aware that I was different and I
was bullied and ostracizedbecause people, and particularly
children, strike at somethingthey don't understand.
SPEAKER_00 (07:24):
Kids are brutal.
SPEAKER_01 (07:25):
They're they're um you know, and they would make
callous dismissive remarks thatI had a brain but didn't use it
because I was impaired.
They didn't have a problemfocusing, and they didn't
understand that that lack offocus was a defense I learned,
that I would go into fantasy.
That's what a clinician wouldcall withdrawal, as the only way
(07:49):
I could survive the overload ofnegativity.
Um, I remember going forpsychological testing.
I know that I had interactionswith teachers and it would come
back to me through my mother,that I had behavioral, that I
was disruptive in class, that Iwasn't all there.
So throughout my life, you know,I was in my own world.
SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
So what age did this begin?
Like were you in, you know,first grade or third grade or
you know?
SPEAKER_01 (08:19):
Well, my clinician said that this was probably
imprinted in me by the time Iwas five.
Quote, mother had gone to workon me.
SPEAKER_00 (08:29):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (08:29):
Now, what we have to consider is that if a parent
goes to work in a child, someyears later the child may not be
able to work.
SPEAKER_00 (08:37):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (08:38):
And that's why it's important to discuss this
because SPD, schizoidpersonality disorder, accounts
for very high levels ofhomelessness.
My clinician told me that nearly40 years ago, and it is borne
out if you look at Wikipedia.
65% of a New York City drop-incenter were zoids.
(09:00):
Uh, I suspect those schizoidonly showed up out of terrible
weather conditions becausethey're patterned to keep their
distance.
And that kind of pattern ontheir part is why they seldom
present clinically.
Somebody who's blocked fromintimacy is very unlikely to
seek help.
But that help may save theirlives or at least stabilize
(09:23):
their life, help them manage.
And that's my concern, andthat's why I wrote this.
To break the cycle and at thevery least to go earlier
intervention, because I don'twant people to have the kind of
marginal, harsh life I had.
SPEAKER_00 (09:41):
So before you get into high school, you know,
you're you go through thatreally, I mean, it's a difficult
time of any child is goingthrough uh, you know, puberty,
going through, you know, thegrowth of social um experiences
and also, you know, the pressureof more and more work that you
(10:05):
need to focus for as you getinto junior high and then
ultimately into high school.
How did how did you deal withthat?
I mean, did you realize that youknow it was just getting worse
and worse or harder to copewith, or were you finding ways
to to manage it a little bit?
SPEAKER_01 (10:22):
Uh, I would say it was worse and worse because
although I had a conflictedrelationship with my mother, I
was aware that she was, youknow, in her final stages, and
that impacted severely.
My father certainly didn'tpresent nurture or support.
(10:44):
Um, so and I the teachers, someof them confronted me like what
was wrong.
They knew that, you know, I wasslipping.
And of course, I was in acommunity.
Belmont High School is inproximity to Harvard and MIT.
A lot of academicians' childrenwere my classmates.
(11:05):
So they were very goal-oriented,very academic and
achievement-minded.
You know, our valedictorian hadfive eight hundreds on his uh
SATs.
You know, they were brilliant uhprogeny.
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (11:22):
Um, and you know, so that made me feel increasingly,
I felt bad about myself to beginwith.
You know, you feel like you'reoperating in the inferior mode.
And in my mind, I equatedacademic achievement with
intelligence.
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
Got it.
SPEAKER_01 (11:40):
In the book, I talk about John Lennon's report
cards, which were mediocrebecause he was also very
distracted.
Right.
No one would question hisintelligence.
SPEAKER_00 (11:52):
Exactly.
Albert Einstein did terrible inschool, but you know, one of the
most brilliant minds there everwas.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (11:59):
But I think a child is impressionable, and look, and
I looked at it moreconventionally.
There are people who rejectthat, you know, there is school
homeschooling, but for the mostpart, grades and academic and um
social participation in clubsand athletics, it that weighs
(12:25):
heavily.
And it also weighs heavily inthe employment world.
Social skills outweigh jobskills because the latter can be
taught.
Social skills really can't.
SPEAKER_00 (12:36):
Right.
So you can talk about practice,yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
Yeah.
So you consider an individuallike me who can't be anywhere on
time, who can't focus, um, who'snot up the back slapping,
convivial schmoozer.
SPEAKER_00 (12:52):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (12:53):
I mean, you're dead meat if you go into a
corporation.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:56):
You know, so they would give me a number of
chances.
They didn't understand it.
I had an exit interview with JimHorton, who was the publisher of
Working Woman, and he told methat my colleagues noted that I
was either very sharp or I wasin a fog.
Wow.
You know, I don't mean thatimmodestly, but that's where it
(13:18):
left me.
They had high expectations, andI was not able to sustain it.
I couldn't work, and thesecompanies simply didn't
understand why I couldn't work.
And it's really not theirmission to figure that out.
SPEAKER_00 (13:32):
Yeah, yeah, they're a company.
They're just trying to operateand bring the right people in
and do their job.
Yeah, no, I get it.
I get it.
Wow.
So at one point you gotdiagnosed.
Yes.
They were, you know, theyrecognized a problem, but at one
point they put their finger onthe problem, gave it a name.
(13:54):
What happened there?
Like, how did you feel when youlike said, oh, okay, now now I
at least I know what this thingis that I'm dealing with?
SPEAKER_01 (14:02):
Well, in a way I felt credentialed.
I was never gonna be a J D, anMD, an MPA, but now I was an
SPD.
So I felt like I had some sortof cache.
SPEAKER_00 (14:15):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (14:16):
You know, I was schizoid.
Emily Dickinson was thought tobe schizoid, uh-huh.
You know, so I was in goodcompany, so to speak.
Um, it was a bummer because shetold me that it would take years
to get through this, and Icouldn't stand living with it.
SPEAKER_00 (14:34):
You know, if it took years, I didn't want to be
around to get that.
On that note, though, I knowlike like I was a year ago
diagnosed with cancer, and theybasically told me that this is
really aggressive, and you'reeither gonna go through this
horrifying protocol or you'renot gonna make it.
(14:56):
And you know, I was faced with adecision that said, well, screw
you, or I'll do what you say.
And I chose screw you, I'm gonnafind my way through this.
And today I'm in remission and Ididn't have to go through their
things because I I pushedthrough and found my answers.
Uh how did you react?
Like, you know, it sounds likeyou've got a little bit of a
(15:17):
rebellious spirit to you.
So, you know, not not everybodyjust rolls over and says, okay,
whatever you say.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
Well, I my clinician goaded me to keep going into
companies.
SPEAKER_00 (15:32):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (15:33):
Uh, the New York State Department of Disability,
the staffer, was very clear instating that I was better off
out of a company and to get helpwith concentration.
And for anybody who's strugglingwith this, that the remote work
is a far better option.
I mean, I don't want to seepeople go into companies and be
(15:56):
dismissed in a day, a week, ayear, whatever it is, or to be
pulled into human resources.
It's painful.
Um I don't want people to beharassed.
Why you're always late, youcan't focus, you don't think,
you don't listen, you're weird,and that's the kind of stuff.
(16:16):
So if you fast forward forsomebody who's living with the
symptomology, the parents couldeasily find themselves
supporting their kid down theline.
The kid may now be a seniorcitizen, and I know firsthand,
of a schizoid MBA who's now in ahomeless shelter because he was
(16:37):
living in his parents' home,which he could not afford, and
was so adverse to intimacy thathe wouldn't seek any kind of
help or professional guidance,financial planning?
How is it possible for somebodywho was in a he was in a federal
job, which was below hiscapabilities?
(16:58):
He was a data entry analyzer,but he held it for many years.
So to his credit.
So he saved money.
Did he save money?
Did he what happened to hispension?
What happened to his socialsecurity, his inheritance?
How is it possible to blowthrough those amounts of money?
(17:18):
You know, there was easy problemsolution in that he and his
sister and their two cats couldhave moved into an apartment,
which was more within theirmeans.
And because he was in an MBAprogram, their financial
planners are people who couldhave helped him.
I would have helped him.
He would not open up to anybodyabout this predicament, and his
(17:39):
situation went from bad toworse.
He had no life skills.
My father was paying my rent, myrent-stabilized apartment in New
York City because I couldn'twork from his social security,
so I could go out and volunteer.
I don't know what happened withthe homeless people.
I probably saw them sleeping onthe steps of Blessed Sacrament
(18:02):
as I went home at night.
But these are scenarios.
These are people who fallthrough the cracks because they
were never diagnosed, they werenever treated.
So this is underreported.
But if this MBA and the Smithgraduate can't function, I'm
trying to give you an idea.
Now there are yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:22):
I mean, how's anybody that that doesn't?
I mean, this guy obviously had alot of raw resources that most
people don't have.
And if he ends up down in thathole, what what's the likelihood
of most other people?
SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
Right, right.
Now there are schizoids who havemore insight and will take
isolated work as labtechnicians, janitors, cleaning
ladies, truck drivers, whateverit is that gives them very
peripheral.
And they may function a lotbetter in those.
They're underemployed, butthey're employed and they're
(18:57):
like this man, able to sustainthemselves in that, and that's
fine.
A clinician, however, would saythere's more potential for
happiness and that man is madeto be social.
My concern, aside from managingfinancially, is you can you were
diagnosed with cancer.
(19:17):
What if you never went to aprimary or saw an oncologist?
SPEAKER_00 (19:22):
I'd probably be dead by now.
SPEAKER_01 (19:24):
So you can see that if somebody who's blocked,
totally blocked, never seeksguidance, intervention, has
severe intimacy problems, yeah,never what's the scenario?
It's going to be prematuremortality.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
Yeah, yeah.
These things don't get better ontheir own, generally.
SPEAKER_01 (19:42):
You know, as they, you know, it's fine.
No man is an island.
SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (19:48):
You know, you get older, and that's why it's
called assisted living.
SPEAKER_00 (19:52):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (19:53):
That's my concern about that.
I don't, you know, that mostpeople are underemployed,
underachieved.
I'm not even concerned that theydon't date or marry, but I am
concerned that they can manage.
SPEAKER_00 (20:05):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (20:06):
And and that's why this when this becomes serious
and potentially deadly.
SPEAKER_00 (20:13):
Well, I I want to get to the book a little bit
because it's it's a it's a veryriveting book, and and the way
that you've approached it uminvolves a lot of references to
music and artists and songs.
And um you you you write aboutthe the comfort and solace that
(20:34):
you got from listening topopular music.
And um, I had the the the Iguess the the advantage of
already having a conversationwith you a little bit about
this.
Um and it's really a huge partof your story is music and the
(20:55):
songs and the lyrics and themusicians and the the the depth
of all of that and how it ittouched you and and you
connected to it.
Why don't you uh tell us alittle bit about that whole
experience and about you knowmaybe a few songs that really
affected you?
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
I was very blessed to live during the era of
classic rock.
And I would have to say that inmy opinion, and maybe many of my
generation, the music hasn'tbeen as good.
The artists then were reallytalented and they blazed trails.
Their music is still heard oncampuses, which should give you
(21:35):
an indication of how enduring itis.
In the book, um, the songs andthe are emotional proxies
because they communicate or whatI can't communicate emotionally.
So they address whatever I wasreally feeling or wish to
(21:55):
express what would have beenunintelligible or ineffable for
me to do so.
The icons, just as I mentionedLenin before, uh Jim Morrison's
estrangement from his family wasrelatable.
Uh they are presented in a waythat's approachable, they're not
(22:16):
glamorized.
Uh, they're people that Iadmired, and of course, I
admired their lifestyle, it wasquite different from mine.
You know, a shy, retiring,reclusive is not the swagger
that one thinks of as a rockstar.
Um it's the music that I reallyloved and which was it's cliche,
(22:38):
but soothe the savage beast.
And I think that music is thatfor people.
It could be their own, it maynot be classic rock for
everybody, but where I couldfind myself and you know, find
my own melody and harmony withinthose songs and feel felt more
understood.
(22:58):
The messages that they werecommunicating and the way that
they interacted with meemotionally allowed me to
interact emotionally withoutinteracting with people, if that
makes sense.
SPEAKER_00 (23:12):
Oh, completely.
I I agree with you, especiallywith the genre um and the age.
I'm I'm a little younger thanyou, but I I I lived in that
same musical era.
I wasn't able to see a lot ofthese guys live for that reason,
but um, because a lot of themdied young.
But um, at the end of the day,like some of these musicians and
(23:34):
songs, when you hear them, andyou know, not only does the
music take you away into anotherplace, you know, the doors music
would just transfer you off toanother place.
You didn't have to do any drugs,you could just listen to the
music or Iron Butterfly or LedZeppelin and or The Who, or you
know, so many of these are, youknow, obviously John Lennon, the
(23:57):
Beatles.
It goes on and on and on.
And and and there's elements ofsome of these iconic songs that
just like literally you can justlike let go and just like whew,
go off into this magical place.
But not only that, though thethe lyrics, so many times, like
you'll listen to a song andyou'll go, Wow, that's exactly
(24:20):
what I was feeling or thinking.
And somehow they they said it ina way that I never could think
to say.
Did you have that kind ofexperience?
And if so, what were some of thesongs that you connected with
that way?
SPEAKER_01 (24:36):
I would say I connected a lot with uh Jamaris
and the Doors because he writesfrom the position of being a
lonely, alienated person.
Uh in the first album, he wrotethat his family was dead.
That was not the case.
SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
Um, his father said that he had no talent and should
have no connection with theband.
He wrote this in a letter tohim.
And from that point on, Morrisonsevered ties with his family.
They did attempt to see him inconcert and he rebuffed them.
SPEAKER_00 (25:13):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:14):
That was that hurtful to him.
So there was a lot ofidentification with him.
And as I mentioned, uh, themediocre Lenin report cards that
he wasn't into the schoolcurriculum and what they were um
what he should be studying, thathe was more attuned to his
(25:35):
music.
Um there were just ways that Ifelt that they were humanized
for me.
And that really came aboutbecause I was in a head shop and
I bought a Jimi Hendrix t-shirtand a Jim Morrison placard from
his New Haven arrest.
And the proprietor, who was acontemporary, remarked, that's
(25:59):
another one I'd like to bringback to life.
So I thought in writing this,wouldn't it be fun?
And how many people wouldn'twant Hendricks, Lennon, Morrison
still around and performing andavailable?
That's a collective fantasy.
I mean, I had my own, you know,I was in my own world, but that
(26:22):
world is a world that I'm suremost boomers or any classic rock
lovers would want to inhabit,even momentarily.
SPEAKER_00 (26:32):
You know, absolutely, 100%.
Um, you know, uh, you have twothings going on.
You have the the condition ofschizoid personality disorder,
and you have your journey of ofovercoming and uh normalizing
(26:53):
your life, finding ways to cope.
Um, and then you know what whatwhere did you go from that to
I'm gonna write a book?
SPEAKER_01 (27:01):
Well, you know, sometimes the worst thing turns
out to be the best thing.
We I was talking to my friendswho appear in the book, Jared
and Elvin, and they had beenprevailing on me to write a book
for years, and then the pandemicstruck.
And I thought this is theopportunity because let's face
it, social distancing camenaturally to me.
SPEAKER_00 (27:23):
Yeah, and hunkering.
SPEAKER_01 (27:25):
I didn't need any training in hunkering in.
And I was a bit daunted becauseI'd never written that much.
So I hired a writing coach, theauthor Harry Friedman, and I
would write a chapter a month.
Everything was shuttered, somost of my research was done
online.
And uh I was apprehensive, Istill didn't have a lot of
(27:49):
confidence.
But by the third month ofwriting, he wrote to me, the
book's looking really good.
I hope you're enjoying writingit.
SPEAKER_00 (27:59):
Nice.
SPEAKER_01 (27:59):
So, you know, it just fell into place, and I was
happy with it.
It didn't, it seemed like to itwrote itself in some ways.
And of course, it was fun for meto uh time travel and watch old
movies and songs.
I think everybody enjoys it.
The people, not necessarilyboomers, it can be younger
(28:21):
people.
A lot of people, it's anenshrined error and they enjoy
reading the social history,particularly since it's skewed
to classic rock.
It's shown that's pretty muchthe vantage for it.
Um, like Morrison's Indecencybattle, uh Altamont, you know,
what happened in that in 1969,which was uh there, of course,
(28:46):
other more uh emblematic, likeThe Moonwalk, right?
Is in there, the candidate, theBoston Strangler.
SPEAKER_00 (28:54):
It's actually a lot of social history, and I don't
know if that's very typical ofmemoirs, so it's it's a great
way to weave uh excitement uhinto your personal experience,
and I think it it it added uh anamazing layer of depth to the
(29:16):
story, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (29:18):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (29:20):
So uh you have a position that uh schizoid
personality disorder ispreventable.
What what what brings you tothat thought?
SPEAKER_01 (29:31):
Well, no child is born with a defense.
There's no reason a child wouldanticipate rejection or tune out
another human being.
That's a learned response.
So uh had I been in acircumstances that were more
favorable or more normative,where there were equal amounts
(29:53):
of acceptance and rejection,where there was love, caring,
patience, and tolerance.
I would have been a differentperson.
And I have noticed when I'vegone into situations where they
were surrogate mothers or verywarm, doting families that, you
know, invited me the orphan forthe holidays.
(30:15):
And I was really made to feelwelcome and treasured, that the
symptoms subsided, that I wasmore focused, I was more
punctual, I was more confident.
This is an adaptation, amaladaptation.
And Park Deets had said thisabout Robert Bowers.
(30:36):
I don't know if you recall in2018, the Tree of Life Shooter
in Pittsburgh.
At first, the reportage claimedthat he was schizophrenic, and
Dr.
Deets said no, he was schizoid,that he had a maladaptation.
So I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (30:52):
And I don't think most people even realize there's
a difference between schizoidand schizophrenic.
I didn't initially.
I didn't, you know, you hearsomebody say schizoid, and to
me, my mind was like, oh,they're schizophrenic, they're
they're having hallucinations orwhatever that, you know, the the
experience of that might be.
So this is enlightening torealize that they're two totally
(31:14):
different things.
SPEAKER_01 (31:15):
Yeah, they are.
They just share a prefix as toschizo effective, and those are
much more serious disorders.
Of course, schizophrenia is apsychosis.
Right.
Um, schizoid can know thedifference between reality and
fantasy.
We just may daydream more thanthe average person has a learned
(31:37):
disorder.
SPEAKER_00 (31:38):
Turn the mind a little bit, but you know where
they are.
SPEAKER_01 (31:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:42):
So what advice would you have to somebody who
suspects they might be livingwith schizoid personality
disorder?
SPEAKER_01 (31:51):
I'd say go see a clinician.
That's the best possible thingyou can do.
And do not assume that theclinician is going to demean
you, fold, spindle, or mutilateyou.
They're on your side.
Now, they may tell you certainthings you don't want to hear,
but ultimately it's better foryour welfare to navigate
(32:13):
whatever those issues are orhave those discussions.
It won't be hurtful.
It's just in the way that myclinician would tell me to go to
this or that, that it won't beso bad.
She literally had to coach me togo to there are going to be
people there and to go to socialgatherings.
That's how phobic I was.
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (32:33):
Well, let's um get to your book a little bit.
How how how do we find yourbook?
SPEAKER_01 (32:40):
My book is online, it's on Amazon.
You can order from AtmospherePress, Thrift Books, a number of
links where it's available.
It's even in other languages.
I give you the reader thepossibility of petting your own
soundtrack of your life.
There's a template that lets youput your song and the flashback
(33:04):
as a gift with purchase, theplaylist.
My site is rocking tributes.
If you'd like to write to me, ifyou suspect you have SPD or know
somebody who does or whatever, Ithe whole point of this is to
help people and prevent it.
SPEAKER_00 (33:21):
Well, that's fantastic.
And Blair, do you have like aparting thought for our
listeners that, you know, if youcould consolidate all of this
information into, you know, justone thing to leave leave the
audience with, what would thatbe?
SPEAKER_01 (33:37):
To weigh your words a little more carefully,
parents, because they can causelifelong damage.
And remember, a child isn't anadult.
We can't impose perfectionisticstandards on children.
They're allowed to grapple, makemistakes, do let them do their
own homework, which is by theway, something my mother did
(33:59):
when I wasn't doing my homework.
Uh, if you can't handle a child,seek intervention.
Um, know your limitations andthe limitations of your kid as a
child.
And remember, you may end upsupporting a child lifelong if
that child develops thisdefense.
(34:21):
It becomes a character disorderand a disability.
I'm sure parents don't wantthat.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00 (34:33):
No, no, no, no.
I I took a pause as as you werefinishing your thought.
SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
No, no.
SPEAKER_00 (34:38):
It's a very powerful message.
Well, Blair, it's been anabsolute pleasure to walk with
the walk through this with you.
And I want to thank yousincerely for uh being a guest
on the show.
And uh, you know, I would alwayswelcome you to come back as as
you're developing and and havemore messaging um to share with
(34:59):
the listeners.
SPEAKER_01 (35:00):
Thank you so much.
I look forward to that, and Iwish you all happy holidays and
loving ones as families.
SPEAKER_00 (35:08):
Beautiful.
Well, this has been anotherepisode of the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andI want to thank all of our
listeners for making the showpossible.
And we will see you next time.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andtoday we've got a very special
guest.
Her name is Blair Sorell, andshe's an author, an innovator,
and an animal lover.
And she was free timesdollar-wise dilettante com
columnist.
And uh together, dating servicesmatchmaker, and New York Blood
(00:25):
Services, Aphoresis Recruiter.
She founded Street Zaps toprotect dogs and people from
stray voltage, and was the firstcommunity representative invited
by Conn Edison to their annualJody S.
Lane Stray Voltage Detection,Mitigation and Prevention
National Conference.
(00:45):
She's got a memoir that we'regoing to get into called A
Schizoid at Smith (00:48):
How Overparenting Leads to
Underachieving.
And Blair, welcome to the show.
How are you doing today?
Fine, thank you for having me.
This is um kind of neat becauseI've got more of a background
since we already had sort of aconversation before, and um
(01:09):
really interested in learningmore about your book.
And I have a copy of your book.
I've read through a decentamount of it.
I haven't finished it, but I geta lot of books to read, so I I
do the best I can.
But it's your book is veryinteresting.
So for anybody who uh decides toget this, um, it'll it'll call
(01:29):
you in and keep you there.
Um I I really want to kind ofjump into usually I I I'll ask a
guest, you know, what broughtyou to this, but your book
really kind of tells that story.
And you know, why don't youexplain a little bit just about
the premise of the book?
(01:51):
Um, and I think that will reallytell the story about you know
you and how how you're how youmade it here to this
conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
Um, my life was at crossroads for a long time.
Uh, because of my schizoidcondition, I was unable to form
goals, make decisions, and so Ihad a quote unquote aimless, uh,
non-trajectory.
And I was living in New YorkCity, which is very careerist
(02:21):
and commercial, conservative.
I really felt out of sync, butout of sync wherever I was,
because the problem wasn't withNew York so much as with me
being anywhere and not beingable to focus, relate or relate
well to other people, um, beingin a chronic kind of fog that
(02:44):
undermined my ability tofunction, be it in a job or in
living circumstances, sustainingfriendships, and of course,
romantically.
I had a character disorderwithout realizing it.
And I suspect most schizoidsdon't know what they're dealing
(03:08):
with, except that they're in alot of pain and they don't have
any insight as to why.
Um, my circumstancesdownspiraled so much that I
eventually sought therapeuticintervention, but of course, not
for being schizoid.
I was depressed and anxious,which I had been long term, and
(03:28):
then I just had to get a handleon things.
And of course, my father wasvery relieved because you know
he had hoped, but you can'tforce anyone to do anything,
especially when it's so vitaland overdue.
SPEAKER_00 (03:49):
Well, you're your the title of your book tells a
lot, and it, you know, it talksabout how overparenting leads to
underachieving.
Um, you write about you know thechallenges of living with a
mother who you know withheldaffection and a father who was
hardly there.
Uh, why don't you share a littlebit about that experience and
(04:11):
and how that had such an impacton you, both with this uh you
know, schizoid personalitydisorder and just your your
adult life in general?
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
Well, if you don't feel loved as a child, it will
taint absolutely everything.
And my parents, there was a lotof strife between them.
Um, my mother had emotional andshe was also terminally ill
throughout my childhood.
I think my father absented a lotof the time because of her,
(04:47):
because he was avoiding uh theinteraction, her demands, but
also because um he didn't reallyknow how to deal with her.
I believe both of them were insituations they didn't want to
be in.
My mother was careerist and myfather wanted companionship, but
not the trappings of a family.
(05:08):
The truth of the matter is thatwe really didn't know him.
And um, as her illness andcancer worsened, we found
ourselves as children ultimatelywith a guardian we didn't really
know.
So um, very often with schizoid,the parents are neglectful or
(05:31):
abusive, and my parents wereboth.
They're not malicious, they werenot malicious people.
None of this was done toundermine, they were poor
parents.
But the net result was that Icouldn't focus because I had
been so demeaned and uh the uhwhen a child is met with
(05:54):
overwhelming criticism, the onlydefense he or she would have is
not to listen.
So they tuned out, and thatbecame a defense, a coping
mechanism from about the time Iwas five on.
It became problematic in school,and then with employers, they're
not going to pay you todaydream.
(06:14):
I want to be careful to note,however, that not every schizoid
is impaired, but I was veryimpaired.
And the more people around, thegreater the impairment.
It gave me a dread of authorityfigures, be they teachers or
bosses, terrible self-esteem, noconfidence, uh inability to, as
(06:36):
I said before, form any kind ofgoal or make any kind of
decision.
And um that would be lesssalient in school or college,
but of course, if somebody'spaying you, the demands are
greater.
So I I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
I said I I suspect that these symptoms or you know
just your experience ofstruggling came out pretty early
on in school.
When when did you when did yourealize that you were having a
hard time of things?
SPEAKER_01 (07:13):
Well, I was always aware that I was different and I
was bullied and ostracizedbecause people, and particularly
children, strike at somethingthey don't understand.
SPEAKER_00 (07:24):
Kids are brutal.
SPEAKER_01 (07:25):
They're they're um you know, and they would make
callous dismissive remarks thatI had a brain but didn't use it
because I was impaired.
They didn't have a problemfocusing, and they didn't
understand that that lack offocus was a defense I learned,
that I would go into fantasy.
That's what a clinician wouldcall withdrawal, as the only way
(07:49):
I could survive the overload ofnegativity.
Um, I remember going forpsychological testing.
I know that I had interactionswith teachers and it would come
back to me through my mother,that I had behavioral, that I
was disruptive in class, that Iwasn't all there.
So throughout my life, you know,I was in my own world.
SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
So what age did this begin?
Like were you in, you know,first grade or third grade or
you know?
SPEAKER_01 (08:19):
Well, my clinician said that this was probably
imprinted in me by the time Iwas five.
Quote, mother had gone to workon me.
SPEAKER_00 (08:29):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (08:29):
Now, what we have to consider is that if a parent
goes to work in a child, someyears later the child may not be
able to work.
SPEAKER_00 (08:37):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (08:38):
And that's why it's important to discuss this
because SPD, schizoidpersonality disorder, accounts
for very high levels ofhomelessness.
My clinician told me that nearly40 years ago, and it is borne
out if you look at Wikipedia.
65% of a New York City drop-incenter were zoids.
(09:00):
Uh, I suspect those schizoidonly showed up out of terrible
weather conditions becausethey're patterned to keep their
distance.
And that kind of pattern ontheir part is why they seldom
present clinically.
Somebody who's blocked fromintimacy is very unlikely to
seek help.
But that help may save theirlives or at least stabilize
(09:23):
their life, help them manage.
And that's my concern, andthat's why I wrote this.
To break the cycle and at thevery least to go earlier
intervention, because I don'twant people to have the kind of
marginal, harsh life I had.
SPEAKER_00 (09:41):
So before you get into high school, you know,
you're you go through thatreally, I mean, it's a difficult
time of any child is goingthrough uh, you know, puberty,
going through, you know, thegrowth of social um experiences
and also, you know, the pressureof more and more work that you
(10:05):
need to focus for as you getinto junior high and then
ultimately into high school.
How did how did you deal withthat?
I mean, did you realize that youknow it was just getting worse
and worse or harder to copewith, or were you finding ways
to to manage it a little bit?
SPEAKER_01 (10:22):
Uh, I would say it was worse and worse because
although I had a conflictedrelationship with my mother, I
was aware that she was, youknow, in her final stages, and
that impacted severely.
My father certainly didn'tpresent nurture or support.
(10:44):
Um, so and I the teachers, someof them confronted me like what
was wrong.
They knew that, you know, I wasslipping.
And of course, I was in acommunity.
Belmont High School is inproximity to Harvard and MIT.
A lot of academicians' childrenwere my classmates.
(11:05):
So they were very goal-oriented,very academic and
achievement-minded.
You know, our valedictorian hadfive eight hundreds on his uh
SATs.
You know, they were brilliant uhprogeny.
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (11:22):
Um, and you know, so that made me feel increasingly,
I felt bad about myself to beginwith.
You know, you feel like you'reoperating in the inferior mode.
And in my mind, I equatedacademic achievement with
intelligence.
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
Got it.
SPEAKER_01 (11:40):
In the book, I talk about John Lennon's report
cards, which were mediocrebecause he was also very
distracted.
Right.
No one would question hisintelligence.
SPEAKER_00 (11:52):
Exactly.
Albert Einstein did terrible inschool, but you know, one of the
most brilliant minds there everwas.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (11:59):
But I think a child is impressionable, and look, and
I looked at it moreconventionally.
There are people who rejectthat, you know, there is school
homeschooling, but for the mostpart, grades and academic and um
social participation in clubsand athletics, it that weighs
(12:25):
heavily.
And it also weighs heavily inthe employment world.
Social skills outweigh jobskills because the latter can be
taught.
Social skills really can't.
SPEAKER_00 (12:36):
Right.
So you can talk about practice,yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
Yeah.
So you consider an individuallike me who can't be anywhere on
time, who can't focus, um, who'snot up the back slapping,
convivial schmoozer.
SPEAKER_00 (12:52):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (12:53):
I mean, you're dead meat if you go into a
corporation.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:56):
You know, so they would give me a number of
chances.
They didn't understand it.
I had an exit interview with JimHorton, who was the publisher of
Working Woman, and he told methat my colleagues noted that I
was either very sharp or I wasin a fog.
Wow.
You know, I don't mean thatimmodestly, but that's where it
(13:18):
left me.
They had high expectations, andI was not able to sustain it.
I couldn't work, and thesecompanies simply didn't
understand why I couldn't work.
And it's really not theirmission to figure that out.
SPEAKER_00 (13:32):
Yeah, yeah, they're a company.
They're just trying to operateand bring the right people in
and do their job.
Yeah, no, I get it.
I get it.
Wow.
So at one point you gotdiagnosed.
Yes.
They were, you know, theyrecognized a problem, but at one
point they put their finger onthe problem, gave it a name.
(13:54):
What happened there?
Like, how did you feel when youlike said, oh, okay, now now I
at least I know what this thingis that I'm dealing with?
SPEAKER_01 (14:02):
Well, in a way I felt credentialed.
I was never gonna be a J D, anMD, an MPA, but now I was an
SPD.
So I felt like I had some sortof cache.
SPEAKER_00 (14:15):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (14:16):
You know, I was schizoid.
Emily Dickinson was thought tobe schizoid, uh-huh.
You know, so I was in goodcompany, so to speak.
Um, it was a bummer because shetold me that it would take years
to get through this, and Icouldn't stand living with it.
SPEAKER_00 (14:34):
You know, if it took years, I didn't want to be
around to get that.
On that note, though, I knowlike like I was a year ago
diagnosed with cancer, and theybasically told me that this is
really aggressive, and you'reeither gonna go through this
horrifying protocol or you'renot gonna make it.
(14:56):
And you know, I was faced with adecision that said, well, screw
you, or I'll do what you say.
And I chose screw you, I'm gonnafind my way through this.
And today I'm in remission and Ididn't have to go through their
things because I I pushedthrough and found my answers.
Uh how did you react?
Like, you know, it sounds likeyou've got a little bit of a
(15:17):
rebellious spirit to you.
So, you know, not not everybodyjust rolls over and says, okay,
whatever you say.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
Well, I my clinician goaded me to keep going into
companies.
SPEAKER_00 (15:32):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (15:33):
Uh, the New York State Department of Disability,
the staffer, was very clear instating that I was better off
out of a company and to get helpwith concentration.
And for anybody who's strugglingwith this, that the remote work
is a far better option.
I mean, I don't want to seepeople go into companies and be
(15:56):
dismissed in a day, a week, ayear, whatever it is, or to be
pulled into human resources.
It's painful.
Um I don't want people to beharassed.
Why you're always late, youcan't focus, you don't think,
you don't listen, you're weird,and that's the kind of stuff.
(16:16):
So if you fast forward forsomebody who's living with the
symptomology, the parents couldeasily find themselves
supporting their kid down theline.
The kid may now be a seniorcitizen, and I know firsthand,
of a schizoid MBA who's now in ahomeless shelter because he was
(16:37):
living in his parents' home,which he could not afford, and
was so adverse to intimacy thathe wouldn't seek any kind of
help or professional guidance,financial planning?
How is it possible for somebodywho was in a he was in a federal
job, which was below hiscapabilities?
(16:58):
He was a data entry analyzer,but he held it for many years.
So to his credit.
So he saved money.
Did he save money?
Did he what happened to hispension?
What happened to his socialsecurity, his inheritance?
How is it possible to blowthrough those amounts of money?
(17:18):
You know, there was easy problemsolution in that he and his
sister and their two cats couldhave moved into an apartment,
which was more within theirmeans.
And because he was in an MBAprogram, their financial
planners are people who couldhave helped him.
I would have helped him.
He would not open up to anybodyabout this predicament, and his
(17:39):
situation went from bad toworse.
He had no life skills.
My father was paying my rent, myrent-stabilized apartment in New
York City because I couldn'twork from his social security,
so I could go out and volunteer.
I don't know what happened withthe homeless people.
I probably saw them sleeping onthe steps of Blessed Sacrament
(18:02):
as I went home at night.
But these are scenarios.
These are people who fallthrough the cracks because they
were never diagnosed, they werenever treated.
So this is underreported.
But if this MBA and the Smithgraduate can't function, I'm
trying to give you an idea.
Now there are yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:22):
I mean, how's anybody that that doesn't?
I mean, this guy obviously had alot of raw resources that most
people don't have.
And if he ends up down in thathole, what what's the likelihood
of most other people?
SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
Right, right.
Now there are schizoids who havemore insight and will take
isolated work as labtechnicians, janitors, cleaning
ladies, truck drivers, whateverit is that gives them very
peripheral.
And they may function a lotbetter in those.
They're underemployed, butthey're employed and they're
(18:57):
like this man, able to sustainthemselves in that, and that's
fine.
A clinician, however, would saythere's more potential for
happiness and that man is madeto be social.
My concern, aside from managingfinancially, is you can you were
diagnosed with cancer.
(19:17):
What if you never went to aprimary or saw an oncologist?
SPEAKER_00 (19:22):
I'd probably be dead by now.
SPEAKER_01 (19:24):
So you can see that if somebody who's blocked,
totally blocked, never seeksguidance, intervention, has
severe intimacy problems, yeah,never what's the scenario?
It's going to be prematuremortality.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
Yeah, yeah.
These things don't get better ontheir own, generally.
SPEAKER_01 (19:42):
You know, as they, you know, it's fine.
No man is an island.
SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (19:48):
You know, you get older, and that's why it's
called assisted living.
SPEAKER_00 (19:52):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (19:53):
That's my concern about that.
I don't, you know, that mostpeople are underemployed,
underachieved.
I'm not even concerned that theydon't date or marry, but I am
concerned that they can manage.
SPEAKER_00 (20:05):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (20:06):
And and that's why this when this becomes serious
and potentially deadly.
SPEAKER_00 (20:13):
Well, I I want to get to the book a little bit
because it's it's a it's a veryriveting book, and and the way
that you've approached it uminvolves a lot of references to
music and artists and songs.
And um you you you write aboutthe the comfort and solace that
(20:34):
you got from listening topopular music.
And um, I had the the the Iguess the the advantage of
already having a conversationwith you a little bit about
this.
Um and it's really a huge partof your story is music and the
(20:55):
songs and the lyrics and themusicians and the the the depth
of all of that and how it ittouched you and and you
connected to it.
Why don't you uh tell us alittle bit about that whole
experience and about you knowmaybe a few songs that really
affected you?
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
I was very blessed to live during the era of
classic rock.
And I would have to say that inmy opinion, and maybe many of my
generation, the music hasn'tbeen as good.
The artists then were reallytalented and they blazed trails.
Their music is still heard oncampuses, which should give you
(21:35):
an indication of how enduring itis.
In the book, um, the songs andthe are emotional proxies
because they communicate or whatI can't communicate emotionally.
So they address whatever I wasreally feeling or wish to
(21:55):
express what would have beenunintelligible or ineffable for
me to do so.
The icons, just as I mentionedLenin before, uh Jim Morrison's
estrangement from his family wasrelatable.
Uh they are presented in a waythat's approachable, they're not
(22:16):
glamorized.
Uh, they're people that Iadmired, and of course, I
admired their lifestyle, it wasquite different from mine.
You know, a shy, retiring,reclusive is not the swagger
that one thinks of as a rockstar.
Um it's the music that I reallyloved and which was it's cliche,
(22:38):
but soothe the savage beast.
And I think that music is thatfor people.
It could be their own, it maynot be classic rock for
everybody, but where I couldfind myself and you know, find
my own melody and harmony withinthose songs and feel felt more
understood.
(22:58):
The messages that they werecommunicating and the way that
they interacted with meemotionally allowed me to
interact emotionally withoutinteracting with people, if that
makes sense.
SPEAKER_00 (23:12):
Oh, completely.
I I agree with you, especiallywith the genre um and the age.
I'm I'm a little younger thanyou, but I I I lived in that
same musical era.
I wasn't able to see a lot ofthese guys live for that reason,
but um, because a lot of themdied young.
But um, at the end of the day,like some of these musicians and
(23:34):
songs, when you hear them, andyou know, not only does the
music take you away into anotherplace, you know, the doors music
would just transfer you off toanother place.
You didn't have to do any drugs,you could just listen to the
music or Iron Butterfly or LedZeppelin and or The Who, or you
know, so many of these are, youknow, obviously John Lennon, the
(23:57):
Beatles.
It goes on and on and on.
And and and there's elements ofsome of these iconic songs that
just like literally you can justlike let go and just like whew,
go off into this magical place.
But not only that, though thethe lyrics, so many times, like
you'll listen to a song andyou'll go, Wow, that's exactly
(24:20):
what I was feeling or thinking.
And somehow they they said it ina way that I never could think
to say.
Did you have that kind ofexperience?
And if so, what were some of thesongs that you connected with
that way?
SPEAKER_01 (24:36):
I would say I connected a lot with uh Jamaris
and the Doors because he writesfrom the position of being a
lonely, alienated person.
Uh in the first album, he wrotethat his family was dead.
That was not the case.
SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
Um, his father said that he had no talent and should
have no connection with theband.
He wrote this in a letter tohim.
And from that point on, Morrisonsevered ties with his family.
They did attempt to see him inconcert and he rebuffed them.
SPEAKER_00 (25:13):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:14):
That was that hurtful to him.
So there was a lot ofidentification with him.
And as I mentioned, uh, themediocre Lenin report cards that
he wasn't into the schoolcurriculum and what they were um
what he should be studying, thathe was more attuned to his
(25:35):
music.
Um there were just ways that Ifelt that they were humanized
for me.
And that really came aboutbecause I was in a head shop and
I bought a Jimi Hendrix t-shirtand a Jim Morrison placard from
his New Haven arrest.
And the proprietor, who was acontemporary, remarked, that's
(25:59):
another one I'd like to bringback to life.
So I thought in writing this,wouldn't it be fun?
And how many people wouldn'twant Hendricks, Lennon, Morrison
still around and performing andavailable?
That's a collective fantasy.
I mean, I had my own, you know,I was in my own world, but that
(26:22):
world is a world that I'm suremost boomers or any classic rock
lovers would want to inhabit,even momentarily.
SPEAKER_00 (26:32):
You know, absolutely, 100%.
Um, you know, uh, you have twothings going on.
You have the the condition ofschizoid personality disorder,
and you have your journey of ofovercoming and uh normalizing
(26:53):
your life, finding ways to cope.
Um, and then you know what whatwhere did you go from that to
I'm gonna write a book?
SPEAKER_01 (27:01):
Well, you know, sometimes the worst thing turns
out to be the best thing.
We I was talking to my friendswho appear in the book, Jared
and Elvin, and they had beenprevailing on me to write a book
for years, and then the pandemicstruck.
And I thought this is theopportunity because let's face
it, social distancing camenaturally to me.
SPEAKER_00 (27:23):
Yeah, and hunkering.
SPEAKER_01 (27:25):
I didn't need any training in hunkering in.
And I was a bit daunted becauseI'd never written that much.
So I hired a writing coach, theauthor Harry Friedman, and I
would write a chapter a month.
Everything was shuttered, somost of my research was done
online.
And uh I was apprehensive, Istill didn't have a lot of
(27:49):
confidence.
But by the third month ofwriting, he wrote to me, the
book's looking really good.
I hope you're enjoying writingit.
SPEAKER_00 (27:59):
Nice.
SPEAKER_01 (27:59):
So, you know, it just fell into place, and I was
happy with it.
It didn't, it seemed like to itwrote itself in some ways.
And of course, it was fun for meto uh time travel and watch old
movies and songs.
I think everybody enjoys it.
The people, not necessarilyboomers, it can be younger
(28:21):
people.
A lot of people, it's anenshrined error and they enjoy
reading the social history,particularly since it's skewed
to classic rock.
It's shown that's pretty muchthe vantage for it.
Um, like Morrison's Indecencybattle, uh Altamont, you know,
what happened in that in 1969,which was uh there, of course,
(28:46):
other more uh emblematic, likeThe Moonwalk, right?
Is in there, the candidate, theBoston Strangler.
SPEAKER_00 (28:54):
It's actually a lot of social history, and I don't
know if that's very typical ofmemoirs, so it's it's a great
way to weave uh excitement uhinto your personal experience,
and I think it it it added uh anamazing layer of depth to the
(29:16):
story, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (29:18):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (29:20):
So uh you have a position that uh schizoid
personality disorder ispreventable.
What what what brings you tothat thought?
SPEAKER_01 (29:31):
Well, no child is born with a defense.
There's no reason a child wouldanticipate rejection or tune out
another human being.
That's a learned response.
So uh had I been in acircumstances that were more
favorable or more normative,where there were equal amounts
(29:53):
of acceptance and rejection,where there was love, caring,
patience, and tolerance.
I would have been a differentperson.
And I have noticed when I'vegone into situations where they
were surrogate mothers or verywarm, doting families that, you
know, invited me the orphan forthe holidays.
(30:15):
And I was really made to feelwelcome and treasured, that the
symptoms subsided, that I wasmore focused, I was more
punctual, I was more confident.
This is an adaptation, amaladaptation.
And Park Deets had said thisabout Robert Bowers.
(30:36):
I don't know if you recall in2018, the Tree of Life Shooter
in Pittsburgh.
At first, the reportage claimedthat he was schizophrenic, and
Dr.
Deets said no, he was schizoid,that he had a maladaptation.
So I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (30:52):
And I don't think most people even realize there's
a difference between schizoidand schizophrenic.
I didn't initially.
I didn't, you know, you hearsomebody say schizoid, and to
me, my mind was like, oh,they're schizophrenic, they're
they're having hallucinations orwhatever that, you know, the the
experience of that might be.
So this is enlightening torealize that they're two totally
(31:14):
different things.
SPEAKER_01 (31:15):
Yeah, they are.
They just share a prefix as toschizo effective, and those are
much more serious disorders.
Of course, schizophrenia is apsychosis.
Right.
Um, schizoid can know thedifference between reality and
fantasy.
We just may daydream more thanthe average person has a learned
(31:37):
disorder.
SPEAKER_00 (31:38):
Turn the mind a little bit, but you know where
they are.
SPEAKER_01 (31:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:42):
So what advice would you have to somebody who
suspects they might be livingwith schizoid personality
disorder?
SPEAKER_01 (31:51):
I'd say go see a clinician.
That's the best possible thingyou can do.
And do not assume that theclinician is going to demean
you, fold, spindle, or mutilateyou.
They're on your side.
Now, they may tell you certainthings you don't want to hear,
but ultimately it's better foryour welfare to navigate
(32:13):
whatever those issues are orhave those discussions.
It won't be hurtful.
It's just in the way that myclinician would tell me to go to
this or that, that it won't beso bad.
She literally had to coach me togo to there are going to be
people there and to go to socialgatherings.
That's how phobic I was.
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (32:33):
Well, let's um get to your book a little bit.
How how how do we find yourbook?
SPEAKER_01 (32:40):
My book is online, it's on Amazon.
You can order from AtmospherePress, Thrift Books, a number of
links where it's available.
It's even in other languages.
I give you the reader thepossibility of petting your own
soundtrack of your life.
There's a template that lets youput your song and the flashback
(33:04):
as a gift with purchase, theplaylist.
My site is rocking tributes.
If you'd like to write to me, ifyou suspect you have SPD or know
somebody who does or whatever, Ithe whole point of this is to
help people and prevent it.
SPEAKER_00 (33:21):
Well, that's fantastic.
And Blair, do you have like aparting thought for our
listeners that, you know, if youcould consolidate all of this
information into, you know, justone thing to leave leave the
audience with, what would thatbe?
SPEAKER_01 (33:37):
To weigh your words a little more carefully,
parents, because they can causelifelong damage.
And remember, a child isn't anadult.
We can't impose perfectionisticstandards on children.
They're allowed to grapple, makemistakes, do let them do their
own homework, which is by theway, something my mother did
(33:59):
when I wasn't doing my homework.
Uh, if you can't handle a child,seek intervention.
Um, know your limitations andthe limitations of your kid as a
child.
And remember, you may end upsupporting a child lifelong if
that child develops thisdefense.
(34:21):
It becomes a character disorderand a disability.
I'm sure parents don't wantthat.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00 (34:33):
No, no, no, no.
I I took a pause as as you werefinishing your thought.
SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
No, no.
SPEAKER_00 (34:38):
It's a very powerful message.
Well, Blair, it's been anabsolute pleasure to walk with
the walk through this with you.
And I want to thank yousincerely for uh being a guest
on the show.
And uh, you know, I would alwayswelcome you to come back as as
you're developing and and havemore messaging um to share with
(34:59):
the listeners.
SPEAKER_01 (35:00):
Thank you so much.
I look forward to that, and Iwish you all happy holidays and
loving ones as families.
SPEAKER_00 (35:08):
Beautiful.
Well, this has been anotherepisode of the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andI want to thank all of our
listeners for making the showpossible.
And we will see you next time.
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