November 13, 2025 • 27 mins
Sleepless nights don’t just steal your energy; they tax your memory, your mood, and the way every system in your body repairs itself. We sit down with Lori Oliver, a former executive who turned years of burnout into a mission to make better sleep achievable with simple, science-backed habits and a surprising piece of performance gear: a reengineered sleep mask designed for true blackout and cooling comfort.
We start with the fundamentals—why sleep governs cognition, decision-making, immune strength, and muscle recovery—and map how cortisol and melatonin should trade places across the day. From there, we dig into practical, low-friction changes that pay off fast: morning sunlight to set your circadian clock, evening light dimming to cue melatonin, device cutoffs that tame mental churn, and bedroom temperatures in the 64–67 degree range. Lori explains how her team rebuilt a century-old tool to solve two big blockers—light leaks and heat—with molded eye pockets for zero pressure and an ultrathin temperature-regulating layer. Tested with college and pro athletes and veterans navigating PTSD, the mask becomes both a functional blackout and a cue your brain learns to trust.
If you’re tired of chasing hacks and want a routine that travels, you’ll appreciate the Sleep Seven playbook—Lori’s free CBT‑I–inspired guide that turns better nights into a repeatable system. We talk behavior over pills, cues over quick fixes, and the small inputs that compound into clearer mornings and steadier days. Whether you’re a parent, a shift worker, or a high performer on the edge of burnout, these steps meet you where you are and help you take back the night, one consistent habit at a time.
If this conversation helps you, share it with a friend who needs better sleep, subscribe for more science-backed health insights, and leave a review to tell us which habit you’re adopting tonight.
use the code SLEEP25 for a 25% discount on our Inactivators Sleep Mask on our website inactiveco.com
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SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andtoday we got a very special
guest.
Her name is Lori Oliver.
And Lori is part of a companythat is the inactive company, a
sleep performance brand rootedin scientific research.
(00:22):
And uh Jill, I'm sorry, Loriworks with Jill McRae, who was
originally scheduled to do thispodcast, and it's scrambled my
brand just a little bit.
But they have worked togetherand developed some simple
actionable strategies forsustainable sleep health.
And as you know, health is oneof the primary pillars.
(00:44):
I mean, sleep is one of theprimary pillars of health.
And Lori, let me stop talkingand bring you in.
And welcome to the show.
It's so good to have you here.
Thank you, Joe.
It's great to be on.
And, you know, I always like tostart the show with a new guest
and kind of figure out, youknow, how did you come to this
(01:05):
space?
You know, not everybody um findsthemselves running a company
that's involved with sleeppractices.
In fact, probably not a lot ofpeople at all.
So why don't you tell us alittle bit about your journey
that brought you to all this?
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
Sure, I'd be happy to.
I spent 25 plus years in avariety of a career of uh
corporate consulting andentrepreneurial roles.
You know, I kind of did thewhole work mother thing for a
long time.
And but I worked in differentcompanies, um, not only in Los
(01:41):
Angeles, but also in Atlanta,Georgia, where we're currently
based.
Um, worked in New York, eventhough I was based in Atlanta,
traveled to New York for a NewYork-based company, and raised
three children along with myhusband of 33 years.
And I was always exhausted.
I was the insomniac, you know,and I'm of the age and
(02:06):
generation of we'll sleep whenwe're dead.
SPEAKER_02 (02:09):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
You know, it was I just thought it came with the
territory, right?
Like, you know, it's like, allright, well, I'm hard charging,
I'm um, you know, uh highclimbing professional.
I was at a senior level on theexecutive leadership team of a
company based in Atlanta calledSpanks that you may or may not
have heard of.
SPEAKER_02 (02:29):
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (02:29):
The founder Sarah Blakely is one of the youngest
self-made billionaires.
Um, so it wasn't like I couldshow up at 8 a.m.
and be exhausted, but that'skind of how I felt.
So I was really tired of fakingmy way through a workday um and
trying to present myself as notbeing exhausted when I actually
(02:52):
was.
Fortunately for me, Jill McRae,my co-founder, was also on the
leadership team at Spanx, and wehad been friends and had, you
know, commiserated over ourshared exhaust and exhaust
between the two of us.
Yeah, with our separatefamilies.
We drank a lot of coffee, but wealso um talked, you know, we had
(03:15):
seven kids.
I have three, she has four.
Um, and so we talked a lot aboutthe overseas trips we were
making and how we were going tosurvive them and then get back
home and you know, get the kidsto all the activities and manage
and help manage schoolwork andthose kinds of things.
So we just related overstrategies for how we could get
(03:37):
better sleep or just survive astired moms.
We're doing so.
SPEAKER_00 (03:43):
This is very organic in its origin.
You guys were just trying tofigure out a personal problem.
SPEAKER_01 (03:48):
100%.
And you know, what better way tostart a company than to come
from a problem you personallyexperienced?
And and most what we found outwhen we dug into it was um a lot
of people share it's really anepidemic.
Insomnia in itself is uhepidemic proportions, uh,
(04:09):
pre-COVID, post-COVID, you nameit.
So 60 million Americans sufferfrom sleep disorders and don't
get the required seven to ninehours of sleep per night.
And once we started digging intothe science around sleep, it was
really amazing to find out abouthow sleep really could be with
(04:32):
some science packed, if youwill, um without prescription
drugs, you know, and withoutnecessarily super expensive
mattresses and things like that,but it could be behaviorally
relearned and improved, andpeople could see significant um
(04:52):
improvement in their health aswell.
SPEAKER_00 (04:55):
So you've opened up a bunch of doors here that I
want to start exploring.
So I've done a couple ofepisodes just specifically on
sleep and just really itsimportance.
Um as you said, insomnia isreally an epidemic, and the
consequences are prettydramatic.
(05:15):
You want to get into a littlebit about some of the problems
that people face when they'renot getting enough sleep.
I mean, you know, even things solike maybe obscure as you know,
your brain has a system thatcleans itself at night that if
it doesn't get into a deep rimsleep, it doesn't do it.
SPEAKER_01 (05:38):
That's exactly right.
That's and that and it clearlysleep, you're exactly right.
And sleep really affects everysingle system in your body.
And people think that they'rejust laying there, so it can't
be productive, but it iscleansing your entire brain
while you sleep, whichstabilizes your mood, it
(05:59):
consolidates memories, it helpsyou learn, it helps you make
better decisions, it really isregulating your brain while you
sleep.
It also sleeps every one of yourother systems, your digestive
system is working.
You are regenerating muscleswhile you sleep, your body is
recovering while you sleep.
(06:20):
So everything is literally goingthrough a cleansing and recovery
and rejuvenation process justwhile you're sleeping.
SPEAKER_00 (06:28):
Yeah, yeah.
It's like your body has twoshifts.
When it's awake, it functions ona you know, prefrontal cortex
level where you're you'retelling you're telling your body
what to do and it's doing thebest it can.
But when you're sleeping, you'renot thinking about anything.
Um, well, you're dreaming,whatever, if you are really
(06:49):
sleeping, but your body goesinto automatic mode and really
just starts reorganizing,putting itself back together.
Um, you know, autophagy takesplace where your body clears out
sick and dying cells, and yourtelomeres are affected, which is
um really the the end of thegenetic code that says you're
(07:12):
gonna live longer or you'regonna live less long.
And uh all of these things, youknow, like you said, your
digestive system.
Um, I'm I'm certain dietprobably has something to do
with this, and when you eat andwhat you're eating when you eat
it, and um, you know, so therereally could be it would be
(07:33):
difficult for there to be a moreimportant pillar of health than
sleep.
You know, we talk about diet,exercise, motion, stress, but
sleep is right there in that,you know, top five.
SPEAKER_01 (07:47):
You could argue it is the foundation of health.
I mean, it really it truly is,um, because nothing else does
affect absolutely every singlesystem.
And also, sleep is the one thingthat you can't cheat.
You know, you can't, yeah, youcan't fake sleep, right?
You can't find a quick fix cheatfor it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:09):
You can't just lay there with your eyes closed.
No.
While your mind is racing, andyou know, you can rest your
body, rest your muscles, Iguess.
I mean, it's not it's notwithout any merit, but it
certainly is not going to giveyou the things that you need
from sleep.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
To really optimize, you have to allow your body to
go through the cycles of thecircadian rhythm, as I'm sure
you know, to get all thedifferent levels of sleep,
because it is things like deepsleep or REM sleep that really
truly start to affect some ofthe factors I suggested earlier,
like consolidation of memoriesand stabilization of mood.
(08:47):
So, you know, these are thereasons we call ourselves a
sleep performance company, totell you the truth, Joe, because
we want people to focus on thefact that sleep is foundational
not only for long-term health,but also your health the next
day.
How you know it's it's we'retalking about tomorrow, next
(09:10):
week, and the next decade ofyour lives are impacted by the
way you sleep every singlenight.
SPEAKER_00 (09:16):
And and I think that I'd I'd like to get into kind of
the fundamentals before we getinto like your protocols,
because it's important forpeople to understand really
what's at stake here.
Um, you know, you talk about thedifferent levels of sleep, and
you know, some people um theysleep, but they wake up every 10
(09:38):
minutes, or everything wakesthem up, or you know, they sleep
with one eye open, they're like,you know, sort of asleep, or
they're asleep, but never reallylike I know lots of people say,
I don't dream.
And I'm like, well, you probablydo, you don't remember it.
But you know, there's all thesedifferent sort of categories of
(09:58):
sleepers, and the reality islike you need to go through all
of these levels.
Um, I always think that likewhen you're going into sleep,
there's that I don't know that Idon't know the terminology of
everything.
Like I said, my brain's a littlescrambled, but just as you're
falling asleep, there's thatreally um sublime, blissful
(10:25):
state that you just sort offloat away in and you want to
stay there like forever, youknow?
It's like a meditative state,and and then you drift off and
you go into wherever.
Um, what's what why don't youexplain the levels of sleep and
and maybe their importance alittle bit?
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
Well, there's there's four levels, and
basically I think two, and youknow, we always say we are not
sleep doctors, and you probablyhave had sleep doctors on your
show.
Um, so I don't want to parade asa doctor, but uh you know, we
all know that there are fourlevels, and two are lighter
levels of sleep and two aredeeper sleep.
And really, as you're, you know,you're beginning to when you let
(11:08):
me start at the morning.
When you wake up in the morning,your level of a hormone called
cortisol increases.
And that's really what gets youkind of excited and and
stimulated to address everythingthat happens during the waking
hours, during the day.
What's happening, especially inour society now, is rather than
(11:28):
at night, automatically, whenespecially when it begins to get
dark outside, evolutionarily,that is when the body, that was
the signal for the body to winddown and go to sleep.
SPEAKER_00 (11:40):
When it goes down, we go to sleep.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (11:41):
That's right.
Well, now with this fast-pacedsociety, you know, our cortisol
just continues to rage even asit gets dark.
So we have to really focus moreon stimulating melatonin or this
parasympathetic kind of state toum get the melatonin part of the
(12:03):
cycle started.
So if you can get your body, getrid of all of the uh raging
thoughts through your mind, um,and really begin to calm your
body into, like you said, themeditative state that really
does induce sleep, your bodywill naturally begin to produce
(12:24):
melatonin.
Don't have to take a supplementnecessarily, and and it's
probably, you know, it when youhave if you have to, you have
to, but it's probably notsomething you want to do over
time.
In fact, there's new researchthat shows that you know,
habitual melatoninsupplementation.
SPEAKER_00 (12:44):
That uh takes the place of a naturally intestine
created hormone or or or enzymeor substance, your body is like,
oh, I guess I don't have to makethat anymore because it's always
here.
Exactly.
You always I always tell people,you know, that supplements can
be great for a purpose, youknow, for a reason or a season,
(13:06):
but certainly not a lifetime.
We agree, we totally agree.
SPEAKER_01 (13:09):
So I guess my point is that to get into the first um
part of sleep, you really, ifyou do have a high cortisol, if
you're prone to high cortisollifestyle, like Jill and I both
were, you know, if you're sortof addicted to that run, that
race of the day, then you reallydo need to um do some things
(13:32):
consistently to calm your bodydown so that you can get into a
light stage of sleep.
Um, and and there are a lot ofways that you can do that.
SPEAKER_00 (13:43):
So your company, uh why don't you tell us a little
bit about it and how it works?
I I'm sort of visualizing a lotof different possible models,
but I don't have any idea reallyhow it works.
So if I'm curious, I'm sure allthe listeners are as well.
Um, so somebody comes to you,what what what do they knock on
(14:03):
a door?
Do they come to a website?
What how do they how do theyfind you and what do they, you
know, how does it work?
SPEAKER_01 (14:10):
We built a website, it's inactiveco.com, and that is
how most consumers uh reach us.
We had a lot, so we started bydeveloping a product that we
thought would be science-backed,it would be um, it would address
kind of the um most importantfactors that you need to help
(14:32):
you get more sleep.
The first being completedarkness, which is what your
body and brain need to signalthis mellow beginning of the
melatonin production, and alsopretty uh difficult for a lot of
people.
SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
I mean, you know, there's all these habits we
have, and most of them involvelights, and a lot of them
involve blue light, which isapparently not real good.
And you know, dark blackoutcurtains aren't something that
you know you see in a lot ofhomes.
So, so how does somebody comeabout you know a dark place?
SPEAKER_01 (15:07):
Well, so enter the sleep mask, which sounds so
simple, it is a 100-year-oldproduct, right?
And that is what where westarted.
I mean, and what was interestingabout it, it wasn't too
dissimilar from what the founderof Spanx, Sarah Blakely, did
with the girdle, an old dopeyproduct that she reinvented.
SPEAKER_00 (15:30):
So we decided we would take the sleep mask and we
would innovate it, giveneverything we know in product
development, textiles,innovation, etc., and address
the problems for number one,allowing any wearer to achieve
100% darkness, no matter theshape of their head, the size
and shape of their features, youknow, giving them an ergonomic,
(15:54):
easily accessible solution toachieve that critical complete
darkness no matter where theywork, with a home, travel,
wherever, hospital, generallynot super expensive, they're not
technologically bound, so you'renot gonna have to worry about
batteries and and uh you knowrebooting the darn thing or
(16:16):
whatever.
You know, it's just a devicethat helps you get dark.
SPEAKER_01 (16:20):
And guess what?
It works.
Yeah, and we we started, wetested it uh initially.
We thought who is our bestaudience to really um adopt this
as an actual piece ofperformance equipment, if you
will.
And so we went to umprofessional and college
athletes to start, and we testedwith them and got their
feedback, and then we went toEmory University in Atlanta, has
(16:44):
an association with the WoundedWarriors Veterans Program.
Oh, nice, and we participated inan IRB study, research study
with them and had um reactionsand input from military veterans
around does this really helpyou?
And you know, what we did was wemolded our mask slightly.
We have soft foam, so it's not astiff mask, okay, not a flimsy
(17:10):
mask that just doesn't provideany darkness.
So it's a molded foam, and weactually curved the eye pockets
and and made them concave sothat you can open and close your
eyes underneath.
All right.
Does a lot of things formilitary veterans, what we found
out is especially those thatsuffer from PTSD, they were more
likely to adopt a sleep mask ifthey could kind of find
(17:33):
themselves in time and space,even if their eyes are covered.
So if they can open and closetheir eyes, and then of course,
you have a lot of uh people withlong eyelashes or lots of uh
beauty-related reasons to havebut so we we just built a mask
that could address thosefactors, so it simply was a tool
(17:54):
that not only functionally couldfit to achieve this um complete
darkness, it also addressed thesecond most important factor,
which was temperatureregulation.
We we added a very thin layer ofinternal temperature regulation
material that's used at NASA anda lot of um high-end sports
equipment that kind of helps tokeep your face temperature
(18:16):
slightly regulated or cooler asyou go through your circadian
rhythm and it begins to rise andget hotter.
This can help keep you cooler.
It also helps the problem thatwe heard from our testers, and
that was they're so hot whenthey sleep, you know.
So this mask keeps you nice andcool.
And um, so you know, it was, andthen on a physical level level,
(18:40):
you know, kind of like Pavlov'sdog, you begin to make an
association psychologically withthe mask and sleep.
Okay, your brain is saying, it'sI'm putting on a mask.
Not only can you not see to geton your phone or have another
getting distraction, right?
(19:01):
Just that association of maskon, sleep, time to sleep, yeah.
Yeah, so so we can and it wasyou know, we could we charge$45
for it.
So most people can't afford it,yeah, yeah.
And take it with them whereverthey go.
SPEAKER_00 (19:16):
So somebody goes and gets your mask, and I don't
know.
Um, they're still struggling tosleep because of I don't know,
maybe they eat donuts beforethey go to sleep, or maybe they
live in a place where there's atrain that keeps going by, or
you know, there's other otherfactors at play beyond just the
darkness.
SPEAKER_01 (19:36):
Absolutely.
So we're not trying to say thesleep mask is the silver bullet,
the one solution.
We think that the it's kind ofthe centerpiece of a routine
that really the wearer has toestablish on their own.
Sleep routines, sleep warmups,as we call them, sleep hygiene,
is very individualized.
And so just like you cancustomize the mask to your face,
(20:00):
we encourage people to customizetheir routine to what works for
them.
Now, there are a few tips thatwork for everybody that
everybody should beincorporating into their day,
such as getting morning sunlightinto your eyes as you wake up in
the morning.
You can actually start settingyourself up for a great night's
sleep first thing in the morningby getting natural sunlight in
(20:22):
your eyes.
Um, in the evening, again, tolight before you go to total
darkness, you know, with orwithout a sleep mask, you should
start lowering the level oflights in your house.
You know, even if you'rewatching TV at night to kind of
calm down, turn your lamps offor your lights off, like just
begin to sit in a little bitdarker environment, which will
(20:44):
help just relax your body, beginto turn off your brain, and then
obviously 30 minutes to an hourbefore you actually go to sleep,
all devices should be off.
There should be no blue lightcoming into your eyes, which
will help you get a betternight's sleep.
Besides that, you know, creatinga sleep cave, a place where
(21:06):
you're comfortable, your yourbed is really used only for
sleeping and not for eating orwrestling with you know your
pets.
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
Oh brain rotting days, right?
SPEAKER_01 (21:18):
Yes, yes.
So, so just keeping that sacredspace so that it is also in
association with sleep.
And then temperature, you know,if your your sleeping
environment should be 67 degreesor even slightly cooler, 64 to
67.
Um, and and that will help yousleep better as well.
(21:39):
And then if it's a a cup of teaor hot water, or if it's
meditation, or if it's listeningto a podcast that tells bedtime
stories, you know, other thingspeople kind of find helpful,
great, but consistency isimportant.
Trying one thing at a time ishelpful.
(22:01):
And going to bed and waking upat the same times every day and
every night is also helpful.
SPEAKER_00 (22:08):
So, do you have a resource for people, whether
it's um consulting or some sortof a book or video or, you know,
like you're gonna run into allthese different people with all
these different sleep problems.
And like you said, it'sindividual, you know, just like
cancer or any other injury.
(22:30):
You gotta find your way to yourhealth.
It's not like the same thingworks for everybody, that maybe
the same things work for a lotof people, but there are groups
of people and and differentresources, and there's a lot of
tools in the box that couldwork.
SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
We provide a sleep seven playbook for free on our
website, um, which is our takeon developing a sleep routine.
It's based on cognitivebehavioral therapy for insomnia,
which is the most effective umprocess and tool for getting
better sleep.
Um, it's based on also habitforming, so adopting a positive
(23:12):
habit.
We incorporated things likethat.
So, what you'll see are sevensteps ranging from visual
visualizing um good sleep toaffirmations, etc.
So we've consolidated that intoseven easy steps.
So I encourage people,listeners, to go to our website
inactivecode.com and check outthe sleep seven playbook um to
(23:35):
begin with.
SPEAKER_00 (23:36):
Fantastic.
Um so is there anything elsethat you want to share about
your company beyond the sleepmask and the advice?
SPEAKER_01 (23:44):
We're women-owned.
We are on a mission to solveproblems that actually need
solving.
We think that um sleep iscritical.
And we also come toorganizations.
We work with um the NFL, forexample, and the NFL Players
Association, and we go to teamsum, or we've gone, we'll go to
(24:08):
the first responders, tofirefighters, to police
officers, and give sleepbriefings that really kind of
help coach people to a bettersleep understanding and
lifestyle.
So we're available to do that,and please reach out to us
through our website.
We'd love to hear from anybody.
SPEAKER_00 (24:25):
Fantastic.
Well, Lori, we're running low ontime, but um, I always like to
give our guests a chance to sortof wrap their thoughts up.
And is there a sort of a partingshot that you'd like to leave
our listeners with?
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
I think every life is important, but we, like you
said, have to take control ofour health best we can.
And sleep is the one criticalplace where we can control our
sleep.
We were all born knowing how tosleep, and we can reteach
ourselves to do so.
So make sure you get thoseseven, at least a minimum of
(25:02):
seven hours of sleep everysingle night.
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
Beautiful.
And once again, how doessomebody get a hold of you or
find your company?
SPEAKER_01 (25:09):
Please come to inactiveco.com and check us out
and or email us at sleep atinactiveco.com.
SPEAKER_00 (25:18):
Beautiful.
Well, Lori, I always like tooffer our guests, you know, we
had a great conversation.
Um, as things develop oranything changes, and you'd like
to come back and share some moreinformation.
I always leave that door open.
I thought that this was very uhinteresting and insightful.
So I'd certainly like to keepthat door open for you.
SPEAKER_01 (25:40):
I appreciate that.
Definitely would love to dothat.
SPEAKER_00 (25:42):
Beautiful.
Well, I want to thank you forjoining us today, and I'm
looking forward to checking yoursite out a little bit myself.
All right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:50):
Thanks so much, Joe.
You take care.
SPEAKER_00 (25:52):
All right.
Well, this has been anotherepisode of the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andI want to thank all of our
listeners for making the showpossible.
And we will see you next time.
Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andtoday we got a very special
guest.
Her name is Lori Oliver.
And Lori is part of a companythat is the inactive company, a
sleep performance brand rootedin scientific research.
(00:22):
And uh Jill, I'm sorry, Loriworks with Jill McRae, who was
originally scheduled to do thispodcast, and it's scrambled my
brand just a little bit.
But they have worked togetherand developed some simple
actionable strategies forsustainable sleep health.
And as you know, health is oneof the primary pillars.
(00:44):
I mean, sleep is one of theprimary pillars of health.
And Lori, let me stop talkingand bring you in.
And welcome to the show.
It's so good to have you here.
Thank you, Joe.
It's great to be on.
And, you know, I always like tostart the show with a new guest
and kind of figure out, youknow, how did you come to this
(01:05):
space?
You know, not everybody um findsthemselves running a company
that's involved with sleeppractices.
In fact, probably not a lot ofpeople at all.
So why don't you tell us alittle bit about your journey
that brought you to all this?
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
Sure, I'd be happy to.
I spent 25 plus years in avariety of a career of uh
corporate consulting andentrepreneurial roles.
You know, I kind of did thewhole work mother thing for a
long time.
And but I worked in differentcompanies, um, not only in Los
(01:41):
Angeles, but also in Atlanta,Georgia, where we're currently
based.
Um, worked in New York, eventhough I was based in Atlanta,
traveled to New York for a NewYork-based company, and raised
three children along with myhusband of 33 years.
And I was always exhausted.
I was the insomniac, you know,and I'm of the age and
(02:06):
generation of we'll sleep whenwe're dead.
SPEAKER_02 (02:09):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
You know, it was I just thought it came with the
territory, right?
Like, you know, it's like, allright, well, I'm hard charging,
I'm um, you know, uh highclimbing professional.
I was at a senior level on theexecutive leadership team of a
company based in Atlanta calledSpanks that you may or may not
have heard of.
SPEAKER_02 (02:29):
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (02:29):
The founder Sarah Blakely is one of the youngest
self-made billionaires.
Um, so it wasn't like I couldshow up at 8 a.m.
and be exhausted, but that'skind of how I felt.
So I was really tired of fakingmy way through a workday um and
trying to present myself as notbeing exhausted when I actually
(02:52):
was.
Fortunately for me, Jill McRae,my co-founder, was also on the
leadership team at Spanx, and wehad been friends and had, you
know, commiserated over ourshared exhaust and exhaust
between the two of us.
Yeah, with our separatefamilies.
We drank a lot of coffee, but wealso um talked, you know, we had
(03:15):
seven kids.
I have three, she has four.
Um, and so we talked a lot aboutthe overseas trips we were
making and how we were going tosurvive them and then get back
home and you know, get the kidsto all the activities and manage
and help manage schoolwork andthose kinds of things.
So we just related overstrategies for how we could get
(03:37):
better sleep or just survive astired moms.
We're doing so.
SPEAKER_00 (03:43):
This is very organic in its origin.
You guys were just trying tofigure out a personal problem.
SPEAKER_01 (03:48):
100%.
And you know, what better way tostart a company than to come
from a problem you personallyexperienced?
And and most what we found outwhen we dug into it was um a lot
of people share it's really anepidemic.
Insomnia in itself is uhepidemic proportions, uh,
(04:09):
pre-COVID, post-COVID, you nameit.
So 60 million Americans sufferfrom sleep disorders and don't
get the required seven to ninehours of sleep per night.
And once we started digging intothe science around sleep, it was
really amazing to find out abouthow sleep really could be with
(04:32):
some science packed, if youwill, um without prescription
drugs, you know, and withoutnecessarily super expensive
mattresses and things like that,but it could be behaviorally
relearned and improved, andpeople could see significant um
(04:52):
improvement in their health aswell.
SPEAKER_00 (04:55):
So you've opened up a bunch of doors here that I
want to start exploring.
So I've done a couple ofepisodes just specifically on
sleep and just really itsimportance.
Um as you said, insomnia isreally an epidemic, and the
consequences are prettydramatic.
(05:15):
You want to get into a littlebit about some of the problems
that people face when they'renot getting enough sleep.
I mean, you know, even things solike maybe obscure as you know,
your brain has a system thatcleans itself at night that if
it doesn't get into a deep rimsleep, it doesn't do it.
SPEAKER_01 (05:38):
That's exactly right.
That's and that and it clearlysleep, you're exactly right.
And sleep really affects everysingle system in your body.
And people think that they'rejust laying there, so it can't
be productive, but it iscleansing your entire brain
while you sleep, whichstabilizes your mood, it
(05:59):
consolidates memories, it helpsyou learn, it helps you make
better decisions, it really isregulating your brain while you
sleep.
It also sleeps every one of yourother systems, your digestive
system is working.
You are regenerating muscleswhile you sleep, your body is
recovering while you sleep.
(06:20):
So everything is literally goingthrough a cleansing and recovery
and rejuvenation process justwhile you're sleeping.
SPEAKER_00 (06:28):
Yeah, yeah.
It's like your body has twoshifts.
When it's awake, it functions ona you know, prefrontal cortex
level where you're you'retelling you're telling your body
what to do and it's doing thebest it can.
But when you're sleeping, you'renot thinking about anything.
Um, well, you're dreaming,whatever, if you are really
(06:49):
sleeping, but your body goesinto automatic mode and really
just starts reorganizing,putting itself back together.
Um, you know, autophagy takesplace where your body clears out
sick and dying cells, and yourtelomeres are affected, which is
um really the the end of thegenetic code that says you're
(07:12):
gonna live longer or you'regonna live less long.
And uh all of these things, youknow, like you said, your
digestive system.
Um, I'm I'm certain dietprobably has something to do
with this, and when you eat andwhat you're eating when you eat
it, and um, you know, so therereally could be it would be
(07:33):
difficult for there to be a moreimportant pillar of health than
sleep.
You know, we talk about diet,exercise, motion, stress, but
sleep is right there in that,you know, top five.
SPEAKER_01 (07:47):
You could argue it is the foundation of health.
I mean, it really it truly is,um, because nothing else does
affect absolutely every singlesystem.
And also, sleep is the one thingthat you can't cheat.
You know, you can't, yeah, youcan't fake sleep, right?
You can't find a quick fix cheatfor it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:09):
You can't just lay there with your eyes closed.
No.
While your mind is racing, andyou know, you can rest your
body, rest your muscles, Iguess.
I mean, it's not it's notwithout any merit, but it
certainly is not going to giveyou the things that you need
from sleep.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
To really optimize, you have to allow your body to
go through the cycles of thecircadian rhythm, as I'm sure
you know, to get all thedifferent levels of sleep,
because it is things like deepsleep or REM sleep that really
truly start to affect some ofthe factors I suggested earlier,
like consolidation of memoriesand stabilization of mood.
(08:47):
So, you know, these are thereasons we call ourselves a
sleep performance company, totell you the truth, Joe, because
we want people to focus on thefact that sleep is foundational
not only for long-term health,but also your health the next
day.
How you know it's it's we'retalking about tomorrow, next
(09:10):
week, and the next decade ofyour lives are impacted by the
way you sleep every singlenight.
SPEAKER_00 (09:16):
And and I think that I'd I'd like to get into kind of
the fundamentals before we getinto like your protocols,
because it's important forpeople to understand really
what's at stake here.
Um, you know, you talk about thedifferent levels of sleep, and
you know, some people um theysleep, but they wake up every 10
(09:38):
minutes, or everything wakesthem up, or you know, they sleep
with one eye open, they're like,you know, sort of asleep, or
they're asleep, but never reallylike I know lots of people say,
I don't dream.
And I'm like, well, you probablydo, you don't remember it.
But you know, there's all thesedifferent sort of categories of
(09:58):
sleepers, and the reality islike you need to go through all
of these levels.
Um, I always think that likewhen you're going into sleep,
there's that I don't know that Idon't know the terminology of
everything.
Like I said, my brain's a littlescrambled, but just as you're
falling asleep, there's thatreally um sublime, blissful
(10:25):
state that you just sort offloat away in and you want to
stay there like forever, youknow?
It's like a meditative state,and and then you drift off and
you go into wherever.
Um, what's what why don't youexplain the levels of sleep and
and maybe their importance alittle bit?
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
Well, there's there's four levels, and
basically I think two, and youknow, we always say we are not
sleep doctors, and you probablyhave had sleep doctors on your
show.
Um, so I don't want to parade asa doctor, but uh you know, we
all know that there are fourlevels, and two are lighter
levels of sleep and two aredeeper sleep.
And really, as you're, you know,you're beginning to when you let
(11:08):
me start at the morning.
When you wake up in the morning,your level of a hormone called
cortisol increases.
And that's really what gets youkind of excited and and
stimulated to address everythingthat happens during the waking
hours, during the day.
What's happening, especially inour society now, is rather than
(11:28):
at night, automatically, whenespecially when it begins to get
dark outside, evolutionarily,that is when the body, that was
the signal for the body to winddown and go to sleep.
SPEAKER_00 (11:40):
When it goes down, we go to sleep.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (11:41):
That's right.
Well, now with this fast-pacedsociety, you know, our cortisol
just continues to rage even asit gets dark.
So we have to really focus moreon stimulating melatonin or this
parasympathetic kind of state toum get the melatonin part of the
(12:03):
cycle started.
So if you can get your body, getrid of all of the uh raging
thoughts through your mind, um,and really begin to calm your
body into, like you said, themeditative state that really
does induce sleep, your bodywill naturally begin to produce
(12:24):
melatonin.
Don't have to take a supplementnecessarily, and and it's
probably, you know, it when youhave if you have to, you have
to, but it's probably notsomething you want to do over
time.
In fact, there's new researchthat shows that you know,
habitual melatoninsupplementation.
SPEAKER_00 (12:44):
That uh takes the place of a naturally intestine
created hormone or or or enzymeor substance, your body is like,
oh, I guess I don't have to makethat anymore because it's always
here.
Exactly.
You always I always tell people,you know, that supplements can
be great for a purpose, youknow, for a reason or a season,
(13:06):
but certainly not a lifetime.
We agree, we totally agree.
SPEAKER_01 (13:09):
So I guess my point is that to get into the first um
part of sleep, you really, ifyou do have a high cortisol, if
you're prone to high cortisollifestyle, like Jill and I both
were, you know, if you're sortof addicted to that run, that
race of the day, then you reallydo need to um do some things
(13:32):
consistently to calm your bodydown so that you can get into a
light stage of sleep.
Um, and and there are a lot ofways that you can do that.
SPEAKER_00 (13:43):
So your company, uh why don't you tell us a little
bit about it and how it works?
I I'm sort of visualizing a lotof different possible models,
but I don't have any idea reallyhow it works.
So if I'm curious, I'm sure allthe listeners are as well.
Um, so somebody comes to you,what what what do they knock on
(14:03):
a door?
Do they come to a website?
What how do they how do theyfind you and what do they, you
know, how does it work?
SPEAKER_01 (14:10):
We built a website, it's inactiveco.com, and that is
how most consumers uh reach us.
We had a lot, so we started bydeveloping a product that we
thought would be science-backed,it would be um, it would address
kind of the um most importantfactors that you need to help
(14:32):
you get more sleep.
The first being completedarkness, which is what your
body and brain need to signalthis mellow beginning of the
melatonin production, and alsopretty uh difficult for a lot of
people.
SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
I mean, you know, there's all these habits we
have, and most of them involvelights, and a lot of them
involve blue light, which isapparently not real good.
And you know, dark blackoutcurtains aren't something that
you know you see in a lot ofhomes.
So, so how does somebody comeabout you know a dark place?
SPEAKER_01 (15:07):
Well, so enter the sleep mask, which sounds so
simple, it is a 100-year-oldproduct, right?
And that is what where westarted.
I mean, and what was interestingabout it, it wasn't too
dissimilar from what the founderof Spanx, Sarah Blakely, did
with the girdle, an old dopeyproduct that she reinvented.
SPEAKER_00 (15:30):
So we decided we would take the sleep mask and we
would innovate it, giveneverything we know in product
development, textiles,innovation, etc., and address
the problems for number one,allowing any wearer to achieve
100% darkness, no matter theshape of their head, the size
and shape of their features, youknow, giving them an ergonomic,
(15:54):
easily accessible solution toachieve that critical complete
darkness no matter where theywork, with a home, travel,
wherever, hospital, generallynot super expensive, they're not
technologically bound, so you'renot gonna have to worry about
batteries and and uh you knowrebooting the darn thing or
(16:16):
whatever.
You know, it's just a devicethat helps you get dark.
SPEAKER_01 (16:20):
And guess what?
It works.
Yeah, and we we started, wetested it uh initially.
We thought who is our bestaudience to really um adopt this
as an actual piece ofperformance equipment, if you
will.
And so we went to umprofessional and college
athletes to start, and we testedwith them and got their
feedback, and then we went toEmory University in Atlanta, has
(16:44):
an association with the WoundedWarriors Veterans Program.
Oh, nice, and we participated inan IRB study, research study
with them and had um reactionsand input from military veterans
around does this really helpyou?
And you know, what we did was wemolded our mask slightly.
We have soft foam, so it's not astiff mask, okay, not a flimsy
(17:10):
mask that just doesn't provideany darkness.
So it's a molded foam, and weactually curved the eye pockets
and and made them concave sothat you can open and close your
eyes underneath.
All right.
Does a lot of things formilitary veterans, what we found
out is especially those thatsuffer from PTSD, they were more
likely to adopt a sleep mask ifthey could kind of find
(17:33):
themselves in time and space,even if their eyes are covered.
So if they can open and closetheir eyes, and then of course,
you have a lot of uh people withlong eyelashes or lots of uh
beauty-related reasons to havebut so we we just built a mask
that could address thosefactors, so it simply was a tool
(17:54):
that not only functionally couldfit to achieve this um complete
darkness, it also addressed thesecond most important factor,
which was temperatureregulation.
We we added a very thin layer ofinternal temperature regulation
material that's used at NASA anda lot of um high-end sports
equipment that kind of helps tokeep your face temperature
(18:16):
slightly regulated or cooler asyou go through your circadian
rhythm and it begins to rise andget hotter.
This can help keep you cooler.
It also helps the problem thatwe heard from our testers, and
that was they're so hot whenthey sleep, you know.
So this mask keeps you nice andcool.
And um, so you know, it was, andthen on a physical level level,
(18:40):
you know, kind of like Pavlov'sdog, you begin to make an
association psychologically withthe mask and sleep.
Okay, your brain is saying, it'sI'm putting on a mask.
Not only can you not see to geton your phone or have another
getting distraction, right?
(19:01):
Just that association of maskon, sleep, time to sleep, yeah.
Yeah, so so we can and it wasyou know, we could we charge$45
for it.
So most people can't afford it,yeah, yeah.
And take it with them whereverthey go.
SPEAKER_00 (19:16):
So somebody goes and gets your mask, and I don't
know.
Um, they're still struggling tosleep because of I don't know,
maybe they eat donuts beforethey go to sleep, or maybe they
live in a place where there's atrain that keeps going by, or
you know, there's other otherfactors at play beyond just the
darkness.
SPEAKER_01 (19:36):
Absolutely.
So we're not trying to say thesleep mask is the silver bullet,
the one solution.
We think that the it's kind ofthe centerpiece of a routine
that really the wearer has toestablish on their own.
Sleep routines, sleep warmups,as we call them, sleep hygiene,
is very individualized.
And so just like you cancustomize the mask to your face,
(20:00):
we encourage people to customizetheir routine to what works for
them.
Now, there are a few tips thatwork for everybody that
everybody should beincorporating into their day,
such as getting morning sunlightinto your eyes as you wake up in
the morning.
You can actually start settingyourself up for a great night's
sleep first thing in the morningby getting natural sunlight in
(20:22):
your eyes.
Um, in the evening, again, tolight before you go to total
darkness, you know, with orwithout a sleep mask, you should
start lowering the level oflights in your house.
You know, even if you'rewatching TV at night to kind of
calm down, turn your lamps offor your lights off, like just
begin to sit in a little bitdarker environment, which will
(20:44):
help just relax your body, beginto turn off your brain, and then
obviously 30 minutes to an hourbefore you actually go to sleep,
all devices should be off.
There should be no blue lightcoming into your eyes, which
will help you get a betternight's sleep.
Besides that, you know, creatinga sleep cave, a place where
(21:06):
you're comfortable, your yourbed is really used only for
sleeping and not for eating orwrestling with you know your
pets.
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
Oh brain rotting days, right?
SPEAKER_01 (21:18):
Yes, yes.
So, so just keeping that sacredspace so that it is also in
association with sleep.
And then temperature, you know,if your your sleeping
environment should be 67 degreesor even slightly cooler, 64 to
67.
Um, and and that will help yousleep better as well.
(21:39):
And then if it's a a cup of teaor hot water, or if it's
meditation, or if it's listeningto a podcast that tells bedtime
stories, you know, other thingspeople kind of find helpful,
great, but consistency isimportant.
Trying one thing at a time ishelpful.
(22:01):
And going to bed and waking upat the same times every day and
every night is also helpful.
SPEAKER_00 (22:08):
So, do you have a resource for people, whether
it's um consulting or some sortof a book or video or, you know,
like you're gonna run into allthese different people with all
these different sleep problems.
And like you said, it'sindividual, you know, just like
cancer or any other injury.
(22:30):
You gotta find your way to yourhealth.
It's not like the same thingworks for everybody, that maybe
the same things work for a lotof people, but there are groups
of people and and differentresources, and there's a lot of
tools in the box that couldwork.
SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
We provide a sleep seven playbook for free on our
website, um, which is our takeon developing a sleep routine.
It's based on cognitivebehavioral therapy for insomnia,
which is the most effective umprocess and tool for getting
better sleep.
Um, it's based on also habitforming, so adopting a positive
(23:12):
habit.
We incorporated things likethat.
So, what you'll see are sevensteps ranging from visual
visualizing um good sleep toaffirmations, etc.
So we've consolidated that intoseven easy steps.
So I encourage people,listeners, to go to our website
inactivecode.com and check outthe sleep seven playbook um to
(23:35):
begin with.
SPEAKER_00 (23:36):
Fantastic.
Um so is there anything elsethat you want to share about
your company beyond the sleepmask and the advice?
SPEAKER_01 (23:44):
We're women-owned.
We are on a mission to solveproblems that actually need
solving.
We think that um sleep iscritical.
And we also come toorganizations.
We work with um the NFL, forexample, and the NFL Players
Association, and we go to teamsum, or we've gone, we'll go to
(24:08):
the first responders, tofirefighters, to police
officers, and give sleepbriefings that really kind of
help coach people to a bettersleep understanding and
lifestyle.
So we're available to do that,and please reach out to us
through our website.
We'd love to hear from anybody.
SPEAKER_00 (24:25):
Fantastic.
Well, Lori, we're running low ontime, but um, I always like to
give our guests a chance to sortof wrap their thoughts up.
And is there a sort of a partingshot that you'd like to leave
our listeners with?
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
I think every life is important, but we, like you
said, have to take control ofour health best we can.
And sleep is the one criticalplace where we can control our
sleep.
We were all born knowing how tosleep, and we can reteach
ourselves to do so.
So make sure you get thoseseven, at least a minimum of
(25:02):
seven hours of sleep everysingle night.
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
Beautiful.
And once again, how doessomebody get a hold of you or
find your company?
SPEAKER_01 (25:09):
Please come to inactiveco.com and check us out
and or email us at sleep atinactiveco.com.
SPEAKER_00 (25:18):
Beautiful.
Well, Lori, I always like tooffer our guests, you know, we
had a great conversation.
Um, as things develop oranything changes, and you'd like
to come back and share some moreinformation.
I always leave that door open.
I thought that this was very uhinteresting and insightful.
So I'd certainly like to keepthat door open for you.
SPEAKER_01 (25:40):
I appreciate that.
Definitely would love to dothat.
SPEAKER_00 (25:42):
Beautiful.
Well, I want to thank you forjoining us today, and I'm
looking forward to checking yoursite out a little bit myself.
All right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:50):
Thanks so much, Joe.
You take care.
SPEAKER_00 (25:52):
All right.
Well, this has been anotherepisode of the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andI want to thank all of our
listeners for making the showpossible.
And we will see you next time.
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