February 26, 2024 • 32 mins
As the first light of February 24, 2023, painted the horizon, Olga's world was abruptly shattered by the haunting echo of her father's words: "the war has started." Feel the weight of her heavy heart as she, a compassionate nurse with Health Tech Without Borders, recounts the visceral emotions that gripped her en route to the airport, learning of the invasion that would change her life forever.
Picture yourself standing amidst the ruins of your ancestral home, grappling with the irrevocable change that war has etched into your life. Through Olga's eyes, peer into this world, where bittersweet relief contrasts with the relentless march of daily survival.
Amidst the chaos, Ukraine finds a glimmer of hope as digital health innovations become literal lifelines. Explore the seamless integration of digital health tools in a land where technology meets the urgent needs of medical care, with HTWB leading the charge of ingenuity.
From psychological trauma programs to the creation of a tactical medical chatbot in partnership with Microsoft, delve into the cutting-edge solutions offering a sliver of solace. Olga's narrative serves as a stark reminder that, even in the midst of chaos, hope endures in the comfort of family bonds, the warmth of daily coffee chats over WhatsApp, and the shared determination to savor life's simplest joys.
Join us for an episode that is as harrowing as it is hopeful, a testament to the fortitude that defines the human spirit. As we navigate through Olga's journey, the flicker of hope remains, resilient in the face of adversity.
To learn more about Health Tech Without Borders: https://www.htwb.org/
Connect with Jen:
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YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp1q8SfA_hEXRJ4EaizlW8Q
Website: https://ineedblue.net/
The background music is written, performed and produced exclusively by Char Good.
https://chargood.com/home
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Everyone has a story.
They just don't always have aplace to share it.
Music.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to the I Need Blue podcast.
This is Shar Good and I amhonored to introduce Jennifer
Lee, author, life coach and hostof today's show on the I Need
Blue podcast MUSIC.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Thank you for that warm introduction, shar, and
welcome to I Need Blue, thepodcast about to take you on an
extraordinary journey whereprofound narratives come to life
, one captivating episode at atime.
I'm your host, jennifer Lee,and I founded this podcast
(01:02):
because I know there is healingand sharing.
Each story you will hear sharedon this podcast is a testament
to our collective strength,innate ability to transform in
the incredible power of healing.
Please remember you are neveralone.
Please visit and share mywebsite with those seeking
(01:23):
connection and inspirationwwwineedbluenet.
Thank you, shar Good, forcomposing and performing the
introduction medley for I NeedBlue.
You can find information aboutShar on her website,
wwwshargoodcom.
(01:43):
Before starting today's episode,I must provide a trigger
warning.
I need Blue features graphicthemes, including, but not
limited to, violence, abuse andmurder, and may not be suitable
for all listeners.
Please take care of yourselfand don't hesitate to ask for
help if you need it.
It's time.
(02:03):
I have the honor of introducingmy next guest, olga.
The CEO, jerome Lee ofHealthTech Without Borders, htwb
, connected us.
I wanted to put a spotlight onthe trauma experienced from
witnessing a war zone.
That is what we will talk abouttoday in how HTWB is helping
(02:28):
our first responders in Ukraine.
Olga was born in Kiev and nowresides in the Netherlands.
Her parents still live in Kievand witnessed their home
destroyed on February 24, 2023,as Ukraine was being invaded.
As you can imagine, olgasometimes could not contact her
(02:51):
parents.
Losing their home and losingtouch with their daughter left
her parents traumatized Shortlyafter they reconnected and
managed to escape the war zone.
Since the beginning of the war,olga has visited Kiev twice to
see her parents, who decided tomove back to the only country,
(03:12):
the only home they knew.
The devastation Olga witnessedwas heartbreaking.
She will share her findingswith us today.
Olga has a nursing backgroundand is involved with HealthTech
Without Borders.
Htwb invests its time focusingon the mental health of first
(03:32):
responders attending to those inUkraine.
They invest in education andoffer several programs that
focus on how to help the helperheal.
It's pretty impressive and I'mexcited for Olga to share more
details with us.
So, without further ado, Iextend my heartfelt gratitude to
(03:54):
Olga for being my special gueston the I Need Blue podcast.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Thank you so much, jennifer.
It's my great pleasure to behere and to speak to you about
my experience, and I am happy toshare my knowledge and my
understanding about what thesituation is, about the current
states, but also the programsthat we're having within
(04:22):
HealthTech Without Borders.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
So thank you, you're so welcome.
I'm really glad we connectedand I'm really excited you
accepted my invitation to comeand speak with me today.
Now you are in the Netherlands,I'm in Florida, so tell me a
little bit about what theweather is like today in the
Netherlands.
I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Well, I believe it's way colder than in Florida right
now.
So it's raining today, so itfeels like a real autumn, and
it's quite dark as well, as wehave several hours time
difference, so it's quite cold,I would say.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yes, anything below 70 is cold to me.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Okay, in Fahrenheit, right, because I'm used to
working Celsius.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
So, yes, that is, 70 is high and I like to have
humidity as well.
I found that's.
What keeps me warm is thehumidity.
Anyway, thank you for sharingthat with me.
I'd like to jump right in andask you to share the moment you
(05:32):
heard about the invasion inUkraine, in the country where
you grew up.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yes, yes, I do remember this day and this
morning very well.
At that day, 24th of February,I was heading to the airport
because I have a meeting inIndia and I was sitting in the
train and it was quite early Ithink it was 6 am in the morning
(06:00):
.
I was checking my phone and Isaw that my father had been seen
.
I mean, I appreciate that somuch that digital, the social
media, has this function lostscene, because I will tell you
later this, especially thismessage, meant a lot to me, to
my sister and, I think, to manypeople, those days when you can
(06:23):
at least track what was the lasttime the person was seen online
.
So of course, we knew thatsomething good happened.
Obviously, I could not thinkthat the war would really happen
.
So I've seen my father, lastseen online like one minute ago.
So I thought, well, that's ifhe's not sleeping and he's an
(06:43):
early bird.
And they just called him.
He picked up the phone and hesaid well, the war has started.
And I remember it was a reallychilly feeling that I had.
I say I was sitting in thetrain, having the bag with me,
the trolley, happy to go toanother continent, because I was
(07:04):
looking forward to this trip.
And there it was.
The war has started, my parentsare in the middle of there and
I'm going to another continent.
It was awful.
It was awful feeling and,frankly, I didn't know what to
say, what to do.
Did I go back home and drive toUkraine, because probably all
(07:24):
the airports were closed at thattime?
I didn't know what to do.
That was awful uncertainty, Iwould say.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
For sure, and I can't imagine your dad Was he like I
don't know what to do?
What were they told to do atthat time?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
They didn't have any information at that time, as far
as I know.
As I remember, they were toldon the radio and the media that
the war has started.
You know, ukraine is a highlydigital country.
We can get the resource and theinformation from anywhere
online.
So there was lots and tons ofinformation available online and
(08:05):
obviously everybody wasscrolling through this
information.
Of course there was someinformation on the radio, on the
national television.
Of course people were trying tocomfort the population, even
though the war has started.
They tried to comfort them andask them not to, you know, not
(08:25):
to make a sudden move or not tomove immediately, because that
could be still potentiallydangerous for them as well.
As I remember, they didn'treceive any guidance the first
hours.
I don't think it were possible.
Of course, it was heartbreakingto see that and to hear that,
(08:47):
and I remember he said that,well, mom is still sleeping.
So I don't know whether Ishould wake her up.
And you know, with this news,you know what to do because,
well, my mom can get a littlebit grumpy if she would be
waking up too early.
I mean, what would you do inthese circumstances?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I don't know what I would do.
I hope that I am never in thatsituation.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I hope so too, yes.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
When was the last time you were able to talk to
your dad?
Because, within the war zone,obviously, things were being
destroyed.
Being able to use ourtechnology to communicate was
shut off.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yes, especially in February, the end of the
February, beginning of the March.
That's when at least my familywere impacted by the war.
The funny thing is thateverybody using well Internet,
of course mobile data andunfortunately it seems like the
(09:51):
Internet connection in theprivate area, where only two
storage houses there, therecould be some difficulties.
If you're not high enough,let's just say so your router
would not reach out to thesignal.
And that's actually whathappened to my parents, because
they're living in a bungalowhouse and they were just not
(10:14):
high enough to reach out to thesignal.
So everything they didn't haveconnection at that time and
that's when me and my sister hadmost of the problems to reach
out to them.
Because I tried several times toreach out to the volunteers who
were active at that area justto go and check on my parents.
But they say, yeah, just sendthem a link to where together.
(10:37):
And I was shocked because Icouldn't send any link.
Even the SMS were not goingthrough.
We're not even using this typeof messaging anymore.
So in the beginning, inFebruary, late February, in the
beginning of the March, we hadmajor problems with the
connection.
Yes, so, from the beginning ofthe war to when it had finally
(11:02):
then reached where your parentslive and they lost their home,
how long had the war been goingon before it directly impacted
your parents, I think one or twoweeks, because the area where
they live it was really adangerous area because the
invaders were actually there,like physically present in there
(11:25):
, and that's why it was awful,especially because we knew that
something awful was happening inthat area and they didn't,
because they were cut off ofthat information and the
neighbors were not there as well, because they fled earlier.
I think it's about two weeks,and after two weeks they have
(11:48):
been evacuated and they went toNetherlands.
At the time when they were atmy place in the Netherlands, the
house has been hit again.
Well, basically, when they leftthe place it was still quite
okay, but when they got back inMay last year they saw the
destruction.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yes, looking back now , is there a oh my gosh.
My parents are lucky to bealive.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
The buildings, the houses, the streets,
infrastructure.
It's awful when it's damaged,but it's nothing to compare with
the human life.
So, basically, when we'relooking back and, honestly, the
war is not yet over.
My parents are, of course,repairing the house, but still
(12:39):
we're so lucky.
Obviously would you hope thatthat would be the last time it
would be restored.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
And then did you go back.
When your parents decided to goback, did you make that trip
with them?
No, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
So they went on their own and we were constantly in
touch with them.
But I do regret that I wasn'table to go with them at that
time.
But I think what they saw, Ican't imagine the feeling,
especially of my mother, becausethat's the house where she was
(13:15):
born, that's real her place.
So I think for her it wasabsolutely painful just to go
there to see those windows, tosee that roof, to see those
walls.
But again, jennifer, it's justthe building, that's the thing.
(13:35):
It's traumatizing, but I thinkit's less traumatizing when you
can compare it to human loss.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yes, when your parents went back, did they have
to experience that human lossof a neighbor or someone nearby,
someone they were close to?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yes, maybe not direct relatives, because we do have a
very small family.
My mother she's the only child.
Her parents are not with usanymore.
It's quite an awful thing tosay, but her mother died 10 days
before the war started.
(14:17):
It's awful, but we were solucky that she made it to be
buried on time properly buried,because after the horrible
events it was quite difficult tobury people because that was
not a priority anymore.
My mother she's still sayingthat she's grateful that her
(14:39):
mother passed away on timewithout seeing the war again,
because she was already a warchild.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
That would have just been horrific for her.
So it's sometimes out oftragedy we can look back and now
realize that that actually wasa blessing.
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Exactly Some of my neighbors, yes, unfortunately,
but nobody from my family,luckily.
So I'm blessed that it didn'thappen to my family.
But of course, many people thatthey knew were hit by the war
(15:19):
either lost their loved ones orthey were heavily hit by the war
itself.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
How do they deal with the fear?
There's got to be fear thatthey could relive this all over
again.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I don't know, and that's the thing I'm still
trying to discover.
I'm still trying to because wetalk to my parents daily.
I'm still trying to understand.
How are they coping with that,day in, day out, although I have
been visiting them for, let'sjust say, in total four weeks I
(15:55):
was in Ukraine in the period ofthe past two years but still I
don't understand how do theycope with that.
So there is a coping mechanismthat they have discovered or
they have created, which is, Ihave to say, very different.
My mother and my father'scoping mechanism are not
comparable.
(16:16):
I see them doing that, copingwith the tragedy in their own
way.
So for me, for my mother atleast, I know that she is really
, she belonged there.
So that's her lens, I mean eventhe house and the property.
For her, it's a temple.
This is how I would describe it.
(16:37):
For my father, he is justreally a carpenter, a handyman,
not by the profession, by just agreat hobby of his.
So he is coping with that byactually doing stuff, by
rebuilding, by decorating, bycreating something new, and,
(17:02):
yeah, this is how they find it,I guess, and they are happy to
be there and to be able tocontribute in a way.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
When they first got home, did they send you pictures
?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yes, I do have those pictures, wow, I can share that
with you as well.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, because I probably I have no comprehension
of what they went home to.
I have none, as I'm sure youwere probably just as shocked.
Wow, this is what it looks like.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yes, the awful part, that the part which was hit the
most, it was the part of thehouse where my mother used to
make clothes, because she hasseveral machines there to
upcycle this stuff and this areawas totally destroyed.
(17:56):
So and I can imagine if she wasthere at home it would be the
end Right.
Looking back and seeing thosepictures, you know, I just saw
the money can that I brought herlast time and it was just there
, the parts.
You know there was the moneycan that she put all the stuff
she's designing.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
So for me it was just incredible picture of something
, of this strategy in a way,something you know so fragile
yes, you know we have talked alittle bit about coping, a
little bit about loss and thatkind of segues us into.
You have a nursing backgroundand you know work for health
(18:42):
tech without borders, helping tohelp the first responders.
So my first question for you isthe first time you went back to
Ukraine to visit your parentsas a as a first responder, with
that nursing background, whatwas it like for you it?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
was a very unique feeling because whatever I
learned before was, in a way,hardly applicable to the war
zone, because those skills thatwe learn at school, at the
college, at the university, arenormally Not based on the
(19:23):
disaster.
So this disaster response anddisaster management skills Seem
like do not have them in thebeginning, because why would you
?
You are not prepared to thatwhatever.
I seen her from the colleaguesthere, from my ex classmates.
(19:43):
It was a very unique feeling ofhow people were coping with the
war, how they were well trainedand how strong they were.
This is, this is the feelingthat I immediately sensed,
because I was expecting peoplein total chaos, but the people
(20:09):
who state, the healthcareprofessionals or any other
people who thought that theircontribution would be available
for the society, for thepopulation, they showed amazing
subset of skills which werereally great.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, great, sometimes we have abilities that
we don't really realize untilwe're forced into a situation
where we have to thinkdifferently, we have to react
differently.
You just kind of figure it out,don't you?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yes, exactly, exactly .
And also quite important tonotice is that, as I already
told you, ukrainian populationare really highly digital
population, so introducing thedigital health or tools or
technology was quitesurprisingly easy, because you
(21:10):
know, you can imagine when thehealthcare infrastructure is
destroyed and you still need tosee a clinician in any way,
whether it's a chronic or acutedisease, you need to have the
opportunity or the alternativeto see them.
You know the clinician, so thatwas quite amazing to see how
(21:33):
healthcare professionals weredealing with this new piece of
technology that they were notusing on professional level that
much.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I'd like to create a visual after what you just said.
Here is what I'm saying.
Hospitals have been bombed,medical facilities no longer
exist, so y'all had to come upwith a way of how do we provide
the medical care that thesepeople need without having that
(22:07):
brick and mortar building forthem to go to.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yes, exactly, that's basically what's what happens,
because obviously you would needto have internet to provide any
any kind of digital healthinterventions.
So if you have the internetconnection, lots of
possibilities arise, which isactually great because there
were so many people, and we'reso grateful for all those
(22:33):
clinicians, supporters,volunteers, who just volunteer
their time and their expertise.
Using even simple GoogleTranslate would help a lot, and
one of our partners, the companyDr Online, did provide the
digital health consultations andthere was the possibility to
(22:55):
translate their message.
So it was either synchronous orasynchronous support, but it
was all possible.
So it was.
It was amazing result how thishumanitarian disaster could
still be supported by by meansof the digital health
intervention from from many,many colleagues and clinicians
(23:21):
overall in the world.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
So when you first went back to Ukraine, what was
the immediate need?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I would say it was still mental health.
So those are, you know, unseentraumas, those cars that's that
are still.
It's quite scary to imaginewhat it would be.
I'm not even talking about thePTSD, I'm just, you know, I'm
just scratching the surface andjust talking about the low moods
(23:49):
or the depression.
You know the anxiety that lotsof people has developed already.
So I would say that, for meespecially, I'm thinking that we
should be investing more forinto, especially, mental health
support.
It is possible to invest more,but we still need to resources
(24:14):
obviously to do that.
There is a lot of stigma aroundmental health.
So how do you, how would youbreak it?
You know, many people would saywell, as long as I'm alive, as
long as my family is OK, as longas my son is still all right
and he's serving on thefrontline, all is fine.
(24:34):
You know I don't need support,but obviously we know that
that's not true.
Those hidden scars are, youknow, masked under some kind of
I don't know the feeling of,sometimes maybe even feeling of
guilt survival skills could be.
So, yes, I would say I'mstrongly insisting that mental
(24:59):
health should be, and still is,the area that's have to receive
way more support.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yes, and are you finding when you are working
there that the first respondersare open about their mental
health needs?
Or is the stigma kind ofcreating that quietness of I'm
the helper?
I don't want to be the help.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yes, Well, it's getting better, which is which
is actually great.
I have to say that in Ukraine,we do have a lot of mental
health practitioners.
It was highly popular to be apsychologist back in the normal
days, obviously, and of course,now, when we are dealing with
(25:49):
the war trauma, not manypsychologists are prepared for
that.
Also, as you know, jennifer,the war in Ukraine has actually
started in 2014.
So there are already expertswho are working in the field
with war trauma.
However, of course, there is ahuge scarcity in those resources
(26:10):
as well.
So our primary idea would be tosupport those healthcare
providers, mental healthcareproviders who are providing the
mental health support to thepopulation.
I would say that their mentalhealth providers are open to
that.
Regarding the clinicians, whoare not necessarily working
(26:32):
mental health fields, I think itwas more challenging to get
them so far to you know, just toaddress their needs.
So we do not particularly callit as mental health.
You know, treatment.
It's just a support.
It just appears support so youcan talk to someone who
understands.
(26:53):
You do not need to counselanyone, so it's just an open
conversation.
So we do not want to treatthose clinicians as patients
because they're not.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
So, yeah, it's really providing that ear to listen
and have support.
Yes, I love that.
Let's dig into a little bitmore about health tech without
borders.
H, t, w, b yes it would beamazing.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
I would share the details, of course.
So health tech without bordersis a global and nonprofit
organization, and we're tryingto support people experiencing
healthcare crisis by investingor leveraging the digital tools
and technology.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Wonderful, and you have different programs.
Yes, so we do have severalprograms.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
One of them is, of course, on mental health and the
disaster that's associated withpsychological trauma.
Then we another project that'salso easily found to be found on
the our website was thePakistan flu response, the flood
in Pakistan that that has been,you know, in June 2022.
(28:09):
We also had the program on that.
Then there is an amazingproject which is actually
tactical medical chatbot that wehave delivered.
We worked on that together withMicrosoft disaster response
team.
Through these chatbots, peoplecivilians, but also also
(28:30):
professionals would be able tosee the protocols based on the
stop the bleeds program, care onthe fire, tactical combat,
causality care so those would bemore appropriate for the front,
for the frontline firstresponders.
We are actually using it tosupport our healthcare
(28:51):
professionals, students, so theyoung healthcare professionals,
just to train them, just to gothrough the chatbot, to train
their skills when it comes to,you know, to care on the fire or
stop the bleeds.
We are not limited to onecountry.
For example, right now there isalso one project towards the
(29:12):
African support, so it's calledVital Africa.
Yeah, we definitely thinkingand expanding our focus and
we're active in severalcountries.
As I already told you was alsoPakistan.
There are possibilities toexpand our knowledge even
further than that.
(29:32):
I would also share theinformation with you Probably it
could be edits, as I don't know, as some kind of description
where we're active, andobviously lots of information
can be found online Right now.
We would like to expand ouractivities even further than
that because we're global NGO,so we're not limited to Ukraine
(29:56):
whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Awesome.
Before we end the interviewtoday, what are some words of
hope that you have for peoplelike your parents who are living
in an active war zone, and forthe first responders who are
helping?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Well, I would say that's a tough question.
You know, be mindful about yoursurrounding.
In a way, that's theappreciation of small things
around you, like.
I love this example, like asmell of a fresh coffee, for
(30:35):
example, every morning.
Or just going outside, having,you know, feeling this breeze on
your face or in your hair, justwalking with your dog, be able
to watch the movie and just havefun, you know, because I think
personally that the strength canbe seen in people who are
(30:57):
really enjoying life instead ofpeople who are struggling every
day and not finding any comfortin good things as well, because
it's a ray of light to me justhaving fun, just enjoying being
together with your familymembers.
(31:18):
So, for example, my parents areappreciating every morning
coffee with me, me and my sister.
So we're there on WhatsApphaving coffee all together, and
sometimes there are also mysister, children and my dog is
next to me and my parents' dog,the small dog, is there.
(31:38):
So we're kind of united andthat's a great moment.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
I love that and I love that you said united so
important.
We could do another wholeepisode on the importance of
being united.
Olga, I am going to thank youfor being my guest on the I Need
Lou podcast.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Thank you so much, jennifer.
It's been amazing.
You know your podcast and thework you're doing is truly
inspiring, so I am grateful forbeing invited and, obviously, to
get to know you, jennifer.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Absolutely, and we'll continue to communicate on
WhatsApp.
Again, technology is amazingand it brings people together,
so thank you again, olga.
Thank you so much.
Everyone has a story.
They just don't always have aplace to share it.
Music.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to the I Need Blue podcast.
This is Shar Good and I amhonored to introduce Jennifer
Lee, author, life coach and hostof today's show on the I Need
Blue podcast MUSIC.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Thank you for that warm introduction, shar, and
welcome to I Need Blue, thepodcast about to take you on an
extraordinary journey whereprofound narratives come to life
, one captivating episode at atime.
I'm your host, jennifer Lee,and I founded this podcast
(01:02):
because I know there is healingand sharing.
Each story you will hear sharedon this podcast is a testament
to our collective strength,innate ability to transform in
the incredible power of healing.
Please remember you are neveralone.
Please visit and share mywebsite with those seeking
(01:23):
connection and inspirationwwwineedbluenet.
Thank you, shar Good, forcomposing and performing the
introduction medley for I NeedBlue.
You can find information aboutShar on her website,
wwwshargoodcom.
(01:43):
Before starting today's episode,I must provide a trigger
warning.
I need Blue features graphicthemes, including, but not
limited to, violence, abuse andmurder, and may not be suitable
for all listeners.
Please take care of yourselfand don't hesitate to ask for
help if you need it.
It's time.
(02:03):
I have the honor of introducingmy next guest, olga.
The CEO, jerome Lee ofHealthTech Without Borders, htwb
, connected us.
I wanted to put a spotlight onthe trauma experienced from
witnessing a war zone.
That is what we will talk abouttoday in how HTWB is helping
(02:28):
our first responders in Ukraine.
Olga was born in Kiev and nowresides in the Netherlands.
Her parents still live in Kievand witnessed their home
destroyed on February 24, 2023,as Ukraine was being invaded.
As you can imagine, olgasometimes could not contact her
(02:51):
parents.
Losing their home and losingtouch with their daughter left
her parents traumatized Shortlyafter they reconnected and
managed to escape the war zone.
Since the beginning of the war,olga has visited Kiev twice to
see her parents, who decided tomove back to the only country,
(03:12):
the only home they knew.
The devastation Olga witnessedwas heartbreaking.
She will share her findingswith us today.
Olga has a nursing backgroundand is involved with HealthTech
Without Borders.
Htwb invests its time focusingon the mental health of first
(03:32):
responders attending to those inUkraine.
They invest in education andoffer several programs that
focus on how to help the helperheal.
It's pretty impressive and I'mexcited for Olga to share more
details with us.
So, without further ado, Iextend my heartfelt gratitude to
(03:54):
Olga for being my special gueston the I Need Blue podcast.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Thank you so much, jennifer.
It's my great pleasure to behere and to speak to you about
my experience, and I am happy toshare my knowledge and my
understanding about what thesituation is, about the current
states, but also the programsthat we're having within
(04:22):
HealthTech Without Borders.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
So thank you, you're so welcome.
I'm really glad we connectedand I'm really excited you
accepted my invitation to comeand speak with me today.
Now you are in the Netherlands,I'm in Florida, so tell me a
little bit about what theweather is like today in the
Netherlands.
I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Well, I believe it's way colder than in Florida right
now.
So it's raining today, so itfeels like a real autumn, and
it's quite dark as well, as wehave several hours time
difference, so it's quite cold,I would say.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yes, anything below 70 is cold to me.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Okay, in Fahrenheit, right, because I'm used to
working Celsius.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
So, yes, that is, 70 is high and I like to have
humidity as well.
I found that's.
What keeps me warm is thehumidity.
Anyway, thank you for sharingthat with me.
I'd like to jump right in andask you to share the moment you
(05:32):
heard about the invasion inUkraine, in the country where
you grew up.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yes, yes, I do remember this day and this
morning very well.
At that day, 24th of February,I was heading to the airport
because I have a meeting inIndia and I was sitting in the
train and it was quite early Ithink it was 6 am in the morning
(06:00):
.
I was checking my phone and Isaw that my father had been seen
.
I mean, I appreciate that somuch that digital, the social
media, has this function lostscene, because I will tell you
later this, especially thismessage, meant a lot to me, to
my sister and, I think, to manypeople, those days when you can
(06:23):
at least track what was the lasttime the person was seen online
.
So of course, we knew thatsomething good happened.
Obviously, I could not thinkthat the war would really happen
.
So I've seen my father, lastseen online like one minute ago.
So I thought, well, that's ifhe's not sleeping and he's an
(06:43):
early bird.
And they just called him.
He picked up the phone and hesaid well, the war has started.
And I remember it was a reallychilly feeling that I had.
I say I was sitting in thetrain, having the bag with me,
the trolley, happy to go toanother continent, because I was
(07:04):
looking forward to this trip.
And there it was.
The war has started, my parentsare in the middle of there and
I'm going to another continent.
It was awful.
It was awful feeling and,frankly, I didn't know what to
say, what to do.
Did I go back home and drive toUkraine, because probably all
(07:24):
the airports were closed at thattime?
I didn't know what to do.
That was awful uncertainty, Iwould say.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
For sure, and I can't imagine your dad Was he like I
don't know what to do?
What were they told to do atthat time?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
They didn't have any information at that time, as far
as I know.
As I remember, they were toldon the radio and the media that
the war has started.
You know, ukraine is a highlydigital country.
We can get the resource and theinformation from anywhere
online.
So there was lots and tons ofinformation available online and
(08:05):
obviously everybody wasscrolling through this
information.
Of course there was someinformation on the radio, on the
national television.
Of course people were trying tocomfort the population, even
though the war has started.
They tried to comfort them andask them not to, you know, not
(08:25):
to make a sudden move or not tomove immediately, because that
could be still potentiallydangerous for them as well.
As I remember, they didn'treceive any guidance the first
hours.
I don't think it were possible.
Of course, it was heartbreakingto see that and to hear that,
(08:47):
and I remember he said that,well, mom is still sleeping.
So I don't know whether Ishould wake her up.
And you know, with this news,you know what to do because,
well, my mom can get a littlebit grumpy if she would be
waking up too early.
I mean, what would you do inthese circumstances?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I don't know what I would do.
I hope that I am never in thatsituation.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I hope so too, yes.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
When was the last time you were able to talk to
your dad?
Because, within the war zone,obviously, things were being
destroyed.
Being able to use ourtechnology to communicate was
shut off.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yes, especially in February, the end of the
February, beginning of the March.
That's when at least my familywere impacted by the war.
The funny thing is thateverybody using well Internet,
of course mobile data andunfortunately it seems like the
(09:51):
Internet connection in theprivate area, where only two
storage houses there, therecould be some difficulties.
If you're not high enough,let's just say so your router
would not reach out to thesignal.
And that's actually whathappened to my parents, because
they're living in a bungalowhouse and they were just not
(10:14):
high enough to reach out to thesignal.
So everything they didn't haveconnection at that time and
that's when me and my sister hadmost of the problems to reach
out to them.
Because I tried several times toreach out to the volunteers who
were active at that area justto go and check on my parents.
But they say, yeah, just sendthem a link to where together.
(10:37):
And I was shocked because Icouldn't send any link.
Even the SMS were not goingthrough.
We're not even using this typeof messaging anymore.
So in the beginning, inFebruary, late February, in the
beginning of the March, we hadmajor problems with the
connection.
Yes, so, from the beginning ofthe war to when it had finally
(11:02):
then reached where your parentslive and they lost their home,
how long had the war been goingon before it directly impacted
your parents, I think one or twoweeks, because the area where
they live it was really adangerous area because the
invaders were actually there,like physically present in there
(11:25):
, and that's why it was awful,especially because we knew that
something awful was happening inthat area and they didn't,
because they were cut off ofthat information and the
neighbors were not there as well, because they fled earlier.
I think it's about two weeks,and after two weeks they have
(11:48):
been evacuated and they went toNetherlands.
At the time when they were atmy place in the Netherlands, the
house has been hit again.
Well, basically, when they leftthe place it was still quite
okay, but when they got back inMay last year they saw the
destruction.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yes, looking back now , is there a oh my gosh.
My parents are lucky to bealive.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
The buildings, the houses, the streets,
infrastructure.
It's awful when it's damaged,but it's nothing to compare with
the human life.
So, basically, when we'relooking back and, honestly, the
war is not yet over.
My parents are, of course,repairing the house, but still
(12:39):
we're so lucky.
Obviously would you hope thatthat would be the last time it
would be restored.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
And then did you go back.
When your parents decided to goback, did you make that trip
with them?
No, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
So they went on their own and we were constantly in
touch with them.
But I do regret that I wasn'table to go with them at that
time.
But I think what they saw, Ican't imagine the feeling,
especially of my mother, becausethat's the house where she was
(13:15):
born, that's real her place.
So I think for her it wasabsolutely painful just to go
there to see those windows, tosee that roof, to see those
walls.
But again, jennifer, it's justthe building, that's the thing.
(13:35):
It's traumatizing, but I thinkit's less traumatizing when you
can compare it to human loss.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yes, when your parents went back, did they have
to experience that human lossof a neighbor or someone nearby,
someone they were close to?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yes, maybe not direct relatives, because we do have a
very small family.
My mother she's the only child.
Her parents are not with usanymore.
It's quite an awful thing tosay, but her mother died 10 days
before the war started.
(14:17):
It's awful, but we were solucky that she made it to be
buried on time properly buried,because after the horrible
events it was quite difficult tobury people because that was
not a priority anymore.
My mother she's still sayingthat she's grateful that her
(14:39):
mother passed away on timewithout seeing the war again,
because she was already a warchild.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
That would have just been horrific for her.
So it's sometimes out oftragedy we can look back and now
realize that that actually wasa blessing.
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Exactly Some of my neighbors, yes, unfortunately,
but nobody from my family,luckily.
So I'm blessed that it didn'thappen to my family.
But of course, many people thatthey knew were hit by the war
(15:19):
either lost their loved ones orthey were heavily hit by the war
itself.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
How do they deal with the fear?
There's got to be fear thatthey could relive this all over
again.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I don't know, and that's the thing I'm still
trying to discover.
I'm still trying to because wetalk to my parents daily.
I'm still trying to understand.
How are they coping with that,day in, day out, although I have
been visiting them for, let'sjust say, in total four weeks I
(15:55):
was in Ukraine in the period ofthe past two years but still I
don't understand how do theycope with that.
So there is a coping mechanismthat they have discovered or
they have created, which is, Ihave to say, very different.
My mother and my father'scoping mechanism are not
comparable.
(16:16):
I see them doing that, copingwith the tragedy in their own
way.
So for me, for my mother atleast, I know that she is really
, she belonged there.
So that's her lens, I mean eventhe house and the property.
For her, it's a temple.
This is how I would describe it.
(16:37):
For my father, he is justreally a carpenter, a handyman,
not by the profession, by just agreat hobby of his.
So he is coping with that byactually doing stuff, by
rebuilding, by decorating, bycreating something new, and,
(17:02):
yeah, this is how they find it,I guess, and they are happy to
be there and to be able tocontribute in a way.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
When they first got home, did they send you pictures
?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yes, I do have those pictures, wow, I can share that
with you as well.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, because I probably I have no comprehension
of what they went home to.
I have none, as I'm sure youwere probably just as shocked.
Wow, this is what it looks like.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yes, the awful part, that the part which was hit the
most, it was the part of thehouse where my mother used to
make clothes, because she hasseveral machines there to
upcycle this stuff and this areawas totally destroyed.
(17:56):
So and I can imagine if she wasthere at home it would be the
end Right.
Looking back and seeing thosepictures, you know, I just saw
the money can that I brought herlast time and it was just there
, the parts.
You know there was the moneycan that she put all the stuff
she's designing.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
So for me it was just incredible picture of something
, of this strategy in a way,something you know so fragile
yes, you know we have talked alittle bit about coping, a
little bit about loss and thatkind of segues us into.
You have a nursing backgroundand you know work for health
(18:42):
tech without borders, helping tohelp the first responders.
So my first question for you isthe first time you went back to
Ukraine to visit your parentsas a as a first responder, with
that nursing background, whatwas it like for you it?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
was a very unique feeling because whatever I
learned before was, in a way,hardly applicable to the war
zone, because those skills thatwe learn at school, at the
college, at the university, arenormally Not based on the
(19:23):
disaster.
So this disaster response anddisaster management skills Seem
like do not have them in thebeginning, because why would you
?
You are not prepared to thatwhatever.
I seen her from the colleaguesthere, from my ex classmates.
(19:43):
It was a very unique feeling ofhow people were coping with the
war, how they were well trainedand how strong they were.
This is, this is the feelingthat I immediately sensed,
because I was expecting peoplein total chaos, but the people
(20:09):
who state, the healthcareprofessionals or any other
people who thought that theircontribution would be available
for the society, for thepopulation, they showed amazing
subset of skills which werereally great.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, great, sometimes we have abilities that
we don't really realize untilwe're forced into a situation
where we have to thinkdifferently, we have to react
differently.
You just kind of figure it out,don't you?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yes, exactly, exactly .
And also quite important tonotice is that, as I already
told you, ukrainian populationare really highly digital
population, so introducing thedigital health or tools or
technology was quitesurprisingly easy, because you
(21:10):
know, you can imagine when thehealthcare infrastructure is
destroyed and you still need tosee a clinician in any way,
whether it's a chronic or acutedisease, you need to have the
opportunity or the alternativeto see them.
You know the clinician, so thatwas quite amazing to see how
(21:33):
healthcare professionals weredealing with this new piece of
technology that they were notusing on professional level that
much.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I'd like to create a visual after what you just said.
Here is what I'm saying.
Hospitals have been bombed,medical facilities no longer
exist, so y'all had to come upwith a way of how do we provide
the medical care that thesepeople need without having that
(22:07):
brick and mortar building forthem to go to.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yes, exactly, that's basically what's what happens,
because obviously you would needto have internet to provide any
any kind of digital healthinterventions.
So if you have the internetconnection, lots of
possibilities arise, which isactually great because there
were so many people, and we'reso grateful for all those
(22:33):
clinicians, supporters,volunteers, who just volunteer
their time and their expertise.
Using even simple GoogleTranslate would help a lot, and
one of our partners, the companyDr Online, did provide the
digital health consultations andthere was the possibility to
(22:55):
translate their message.
So it was either synchronous orasynchronous support, but it
was all possible.
So it was.
It was amazing result how thishumanitarian disaster could
still be supported by by meansof the digital health
intervention from from many,many colleagues and clinicians
(23:21):
overall in the world.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
So when you first went back to Ukraine, what was
the immediate need?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I would say it was still mental health.
So those are, you know, unseentraumas, those cars that's that
are still.
It's quite scary to imaginewhat it would be.
I'm not even talking about thePTSD, I'm just, you know, I'm
just scratching the surface andjust talking about the low moods
(23:49):
or the depression.
You know the anxiety that lotsof people has developed already.
So I would say that, for meespecially, I'm thinking that we
should be investing more forinto, especially, mental health
support.
It is possible to invest more,but we still need to resources
(24:14):
obviously to do that.
There is a lot of stigma aroundmental health.
So how do you, how would youbreak it?
You know, many people would saywell, as long as I'm alive, as
long as my family is OK, as longas my son is still all right
and he's serving on thefrontline, all is fine.
(24:34):
You know I don't need support,but obviously we know that
that's not true.
Those hidden scars are, youknow, masked under some kind of
I don't know the feeling of,sometimes maybe even feeling of
guilt survival skills could be.
So, yes, I would say I'mstrongly insisting that mental
(24:59):
health should be, and still is,the area that's have to receive
way more support.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yes, and are you finding when you are working
there that the first respondersare open about their mental
health needs?
Or is the stigma kind ofcreating that quietness of I'm
the helper?
I don't want to be the help.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yes, Well, it's getting better, which is which
is actually great.
I have to say that in Ukraine,we do have a lot of mental
health practitioners.
It was highly popular to be apsychologist back in the normal
days, obviously, and of course,now, when we are dealing with
(25:49):
the war trauma, not manypsychologists are prepared for
that.
Also, as you know, jennifer,the war in Ukraine has actually
started in 2014.
So there are already expertswho are working in the field
with war trauma.
However, of course, there is ahuge scarcity in those resources
(26:10):
as well.
So our primary idea would be tosupport those healthcare
providers, mental healthcareproviders who are providing the
mental health support to thepopulation.
I would say that their mentalhealth providers are open to
that.
Regarding the clinicians, whoare not necessarily working
(26:32):
mental health fields, I think itwas more challenging to get
them so far to you know, just toaddress their needs.
So we do not particularly callit as mental health.
You know, treatment.
It's just a support.
It just appears support so youcan talk to someone who
understands.
(26:53):
You do not need to counselanyone, so it's just an open
conversation.
So we do not want to treatthose clinicians as patients
because they're not.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
So, yeah, it's really providing that ear to listen
and have support.
Yes, I love that.
Let's dig into a little bitmore about health tech without
borders.
H, t, w, b yes it would beamazing.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
I would share the details, of course.
So health tech without bordersis a global and nonprofit
organization, and we're tryingto support people experiencing
healthcare crisis by investingor leveraging the digital tools
and technology.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Wonderful, and you have different programs.
Yes, so we do have severalprograms.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
One of them is, of course, on mental health and the
disaster that's associated withpsychological trauma.
Then we another project that'salso easily found to be found on
the our website was thePakistan flu response, the flood
in Pakistan that that has been,you know, in June 2022.
(28:09):
We also had the program on that.
Then there is an amazingproject which is actually
tactical medical chatbot that wehave delivered.
We worked on that together withMicrosoft disaster response
team.
Through these chatbots, peoplecivilians, but also also
(28:30):
professionals would be able tosee the protocols based on the
stop the bleeds program, care onthe fire, tactical combat,
causality care so those would bemore appropriate for the front,
for the frontline firstresponders.
We are actually using it tosupport our healthcare
(28:51):
professionals, students, so theyoung healthcare professionals,
just to train them, just to gothrough the chatbot, to train
their skills when it comes to,you know, to care on the fire or
stop the bleeds.
We are not limited to onecountry.
For example, right now there isalso one project towards the
(29:12):
African support, so it's calledVital Africa.
Yeah, we definitely thinkingand expanding our focus and
we're active in severalcountries.
As I already told you was alsoPakistan.
There are possibilities toexpand our knowledge even
further than that.
(29:32):
I would also share theinformation with you Probably it
could be edits, as I don't know, as some kind of description
where we're active, andobviously lots of information
can be found online Right now.
We would like to expand ouractivities even further than
that because we're global NGO,so we're not limited to Ukraine
(29:56):
whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Awesome.
Before we end the interviewtoday, what are some words of
hope that you have for peoplelike your parents who are living
in an active war zone, and forthe first responders who are
helping?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Well, I would say that's a tough question.
You know, be mindful about yoursurrounding.
In a way, that's theappreciation of small things
around you, like.
I love this example, like asmell of a fresh coffee, for
(30:35):
example, every morning.
Or just going outside, having,you know, feeling this breeze on
your face or in your hair, justwalking with your dog, be able
to watch the movie and just havefun, you know, because I think
personally that the strength canbe seen in people who are
(30:57):
really enjoying life instead ofpeople who are struggling every
day and not finding any comfortin good things as well, because
it's a ray of light to me justhaving fun, just enjoying being
together with your familymembers.
(31:18):
So, for example, my parents areappreciating every morning
coffee with me, me and my sister.
So we're there on WhatsApphaving coffee all together, and
sometimes there are also mysister, children and my dog is
next to me and my parents' dog,the small dog, is there.
(31:38):
So we're kind of united andthat's a great moment.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
I love that and I love that you said united so
important.
We could do another wholeepisode on the importance of
being united.
Olga, I am going to thank youfor being my guest on the I Need
Lou podcast.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Thank you so much, jennifer.
It's been amazing.
You know your podcast and thework you're doing is truly
inspiring, so I am grateful forbeing invited and, obviously, to
get to know you, jennifer.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Absolutely, and we'll continue to communicate on
WhatsApp.
Again, technology is amazingand it brings people together,
so thank you again, olga.
Thank you so much.
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