July 24, 2025 • 24 mins
In this episode, we’re diving into how identifying and leveraging innate talent (rather than just experience) can help leaders build stronger, higher-performing sales teams.
And helping Matt unpack it all is Trey Morris, VP/Senior Consultant/Director of Training Innovation at The Center for Sales Strategy. Trey’s article in the 2025 Talent Magazine explores how smart hiring decisions can transform team performance, and, here, he brings those insights to life with practical strategies and real-world examples.
Trey shares so many eye-opening tips, like:
- Why hiring for raw potential often yields better results than hiring for polish or experience alone
- How to spot innate talent during the interview process using tools like structured assessments
- And, finally, why, every time you interact with anyone, you should ask yourself: “Is this someone that I could I add to my Talent Bank?”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt Sunshine (00:05):
Welcome to Improving Sales Performance, a
podcast highlighting tips andinsights aimed at helping sales
organizations realize, and maybeeven exceed, their goals.
Here we chat with thoughtleaders, experts and gurus who
have years of sales experiencefrom a wide range of industries.
I'm your host, matt Sunshine,ceo at the Center for Sales
Strategy, a sales performanceconsulting company.
(00:27):
In this episode, we're divinginto how identifying and
leveraging innate talent, ratherthan just experience, can help
leaders build stronger,higher-performing sales teams.
And helping me unpack it all isTrey Morris, vice President,
(00:48):
senior Consultant, director ofTraining Innovation at the
Center for Sales Strategy.
Trey's article in the 2025Talent Magazine explores how
smart hiring decisions cantransform team performance, and
Trey shares so many eye-openingtips like why hiring for raw
potential often yields betterresults than hiring for polish
(01:10):
or experience alone, how to spotinnate talent during the
interview process using toolslike a structured assessment.
And, finally, why, every timeyou interact with anyone, you
should ask yourself is thissomeone that I could add to my
talent bank?
All right, trey, let's jumpright in.
(01:37):
So in your article which, bythe way, was a great article In
your article, you made a reallystrong case for hiring based on
innate talent rather than justover past experiences, thinking
like a sales leader or think inthe mind of a sales leader.
(01:59):
Can you walk us through whatthat really looks like when a
sales leader is making thathiring decision?
Trey Morris (02:07):
Yeah.
So I think that anyone who'sbeen in management more than 15
minutes has made bad hires.
And usually that happensbecause we get excited about the
opportunity to bring on aexperienced salesperson from
another competitor across thestreet, down the road, wherever
(02:32):
and those people turn out to behorrible hires and what we find
out quickly is that experiencedoesn't necessarily mean that
they're going to be successful.
I think that, as an industry,sales is really bad at confusing
success with talent, that wethink that if they're successful
(02:54):
, oh, they must be talented, butthe reality is is, if you're at
the right company at the righttime, with the right region or
account list, you can be reallysuccessful and actually not be
very good, not be very talented,and so when you pick that
person up and you move them toyour organization, they don't
(03:16):
have everything that made themsuccessful and they fail.
And so when you're hiring, whatyou want to look for is natural
ability, natural talent, and I'mgoing to say it over and over
again today you need anassessment that's going to
scientifically measure naturalability and natural talent that
(03:40):
you can use to build on, to makesure that they have the skills
and the training and the,eventually, the experience to do
the job properly.
And if you do that, if you hiretalent and then you build on
that, you train them, you helpthem grow, they're going to be
good, maybe great, possibly thebest ever salespeople that
(04:03):
you've hired, rather than justhoping that experience
translates to the new place.
Matt Sunshine (04:09):
Yeah, well said, that's good.
That's a lot of really goodinformation in that response.
So I want to think about againfrom the sales leader's point of
view and specifically thinkingabout the interview and
selection process, like notafter that, but in the interview
(04:32):
and selection process.
When you think about thedifference between potential and
performance right, there's theperformance aspect, but there's
also the potential aspect.
How should a sales leader orsales manager balance those two
factors as they're going throughthe interview process and as
(04:54):
they're going through the finalselection?
Trey Morris (04:56):
process and a perfect opportunity.
You would want someone that haspotential or talent and they
have performance right, so youhave a successful salesperson
that's also naturally talented.
But the reality is is those arereally hard to find, and if you
(05:18):
do, they're probably reallyhappy where they are and so,
unless something bad hashappened at that other
organization, it's going to behard to recruit them to your
place.
And so really what happens isyou have the choice of
experienced salesperson orsomeone without experience that
hasn't been selling, and you'rehoping that they have potential
(05:43):
to be great because they'renaturally talented.
And the only way that you canreally know that is if you hire
using an assessment and then youfind out if that talent is
going to translate into the rolethat you're hiring for the
culture of the organization and,honestly, if you think you're
(06:04):
going to work well with thosepeople.
I personally I would ratherhire on potential when I know
that they're talented, becausethen I can train them in my ways
in how I want them to be.
They're not going to bring alot of baggage or bad habits
that experienced salespeopleoften have, and so potential is
(06:30):
better in the long run thanperformance if you're truly
hiring a talented person thatyou can build into that
long-term performance leader.
Matt Sunshine (06:43):
Makes me think about.
You know, like, when you we seea commercial or you get a, you
get an email about an investmentpossibility and they tell you
about what this type ofinvestment has done in the past,
and then there's always theasterisk.
You know, past performance notindicative of of of future
(07:03):
performance.
It's like salespeople shouldcome with that too.
Yes, past performance is not.
Trey Morris (07:11):
We both know people we've hired that should have
had that disclaimer.
Matt Sunshine (07:15):
Right, you were great.
I know you were great.
What happened to that person?
I had the right product withthe right, all the things All
right.
So you've mentioned assessmenta couple of times.
I think we both agree thathaving a validated assessment to
help you make a decision as onepiece of the puzzle in making a
(07:36):
decision is extremely valuable.
Obviously, there are lots ofgood assessments out there.
We're going to be biased to theone that we have.
Trey Morris (07:44):
Ours is the best strategy.
Let's just be honest Ours isthe best.
Matt Sunshine (07:49):
But if you can't use ours, you use something.
Okay, yes, something's betterthan nothing.
Something's better than nothing, all right, so not talking
about assessments for a second.
What are some of your go-tostrategies for identifying
innate talent in an interview,especially if you're
interviewing someone thatdoesn't have a long track record
(08:11):
?
What sort of questions or whatdo you look for?
Kind of give us some insight.
Trey Morris (08:17):
So I'm going to look for past performance, even
if that performance and thatexperience isn't related to
sales, because I want to seesomeone who has a strong work
ethic.
Well, how do I know that?
When did you start working?
What did you do?
How many jobs have you had?
(08:38):
How did you do in those jobs?
And you're going to see workethic bubble up of.
Oh, I started working when I was15 and I was a caddy at a
country club or I worked atChick-fil-A and I worked, you
know, 30 hours a week, while Ialso was a leader of the you
know whatever club in highschool and I played football and
(09:00):
they're really involved andreally active.
I'm looking for that, thatlittle bit of grit I'm looking
for.
I'm looking for someone whowants to work hard.
I want someone that hasexperience doing that.
I want people that are, thatare outgoing, that are easily
are able to talk to people, thatare not afraid to have a
(09:21):
conversation.
I was known and you know betterthan anybody I like to hire
little mini trays.
They're a little loud, theywere a little obnoxious, they
were a little aggressive,because to me, that's what I was
looking for and one of thethings the talent assessment has
shown me is there are a lot ofreally great salespeople that
(09:44):
aren't like me, and I need tolook in all of the areas, and so
some of the things that I lookfor is are they competitive,
like, did they play sports?
Did they work?
Did they have multiple jobs?
Did they put in long hours?
Are they smart?
Right, because you smart andpicks up things.
They're going to understand ourproducts or our services.
(10:06):
I'm looking for people thatthat are inquisitive, people
that that love to solve problems, people that love to ask
questions.
Those are the things that Ilook for in an interview and,
ironically, the salesassessments has those same
(10:30):
characteristics and naturaltalents that we're looking for
as well.
Matt Sunshine (10:34):
Yeah, you know, as you were talking, I was kind
of going through my mind whatare the things I, what are some
of the things I would look at?
A lot of them are very similar,but some other ones that came
up is I look at how do theyfollow up after the meeting.
Is I look at how do they followup after the meeting?
That's a great one.
Or, how do they show up?
Do they show up on time or arethey late?
(10:56):
Or, if it's a virtual meeting,what's their background look
like?
Right, I mean, how serious arethey An unmade bed.
Trey Morris (11:03):
Right, that's a deal breaker for me.
Right, that's a deal breaker.
Matt Sunshine (11:08):
Blur your back First of all.
Make your bed.
Second, blur your background.
It's not that hard.
I mean, when they tell stories Ialways look for do they say we
or I?
And if they say we, I wonderhow involved they really were.
Or are they taking credit forthings that other people did?
(11:30):
Versus I, I always like to saywhy are you interested in this
job?
Because I think it sorts to thepart of the job I listen for.
Is what they're describing moreof an account management role
or is what they're describingmore of a sales role?
(11:50):
Do they own the word sales?
Are they comfortable with thoseword sales?
I think, between what you justsaid and what I just said, we
probably have a really good listof ways to identify.
Start to identify if someonehas the talent.
All right.
So let's dive into this talentassessment thing.
You talked about the power ofusing talent assessments in the
(12:13):
article.
You've talked about it here.
How can managers use thosetools without making the process
feel robotic or impersonal?
How, how, how do you bringthose things to like, like?
So someone takes the assessmentand they're like boy.
(12:33):
I'm glad I took that assessmenttype of thing yeah.
Trey Morris (12:37):
so I think it depends on who you're
interviewing is how you set upthe assessment.
So if it's someone that doesn'thave a lot of experience and
and we and we recommend to toour clients that they should
have anyone they meet that looksremotely interesting, take the
assessment, because you neverknow where you can find a
(12:59):
diamond in the rough, someonewho's naturally talented.
When you talk to bartenders andwaiters and the guy that's
selling you your car or sellingsomething at Dillard's right, I
mean, that's where you do it,and for those people I always
say you know, have you everthought about going into sales?
We have this really coolassessment that takes about 35
minutes and you'll know.
(13:21):
And we'll know if you arenaturally gifted in sales and
you could have a whole newcareer to take that, I think,
for that.
It's an opportunity to see ifthey're good at it and you would
share that top talent reportwith them.
Matt Sunshine (13:35):
So that they can actually see.
Hey, I took this assessment.
This is what I have.
Trey Morris (13:42):
Now, if you're talking to someone who's
experienced they've been selling, and it doesn't matter if
they're selling in your industryor another industry, but they
have experience I always say wehave everyone who applies for a
position here take our salestalent assessment so that we
understand your natural talents,so that, when you are here, we
(14:02):
know what talents to coach, sothat you are the best version of
yourself.
Yeah, and then they're like ohokay, that makes sense, because
you know, you kind of assumethat when you start, when you're
here, well, they may not behere, but I'm not going to tell
them that.
But if they are talented, thisis very helpful for us.
Matt Sunshine (14:21):
I've heard you say this.
I've heard our talent analystsat CSS say this.
I've heard lots of theconsultants say this Everyone
has talents, right, anassessment is just measuring a
few of them, right, but everyonehas talents and all that we're
all trying to do on both sidesof this equation is say do the
(14:45):
talents that you have fit withthe job that we have?
Like, is it going to be asquare peg in a square hole?
I mean, that's what we're goingfor.
But the other thing that I'veheard people say and I know I've
heard you say this too is themore real that you can make this
(15:07):
.
You know, we're trying to allowpeople to soar with their
strengths right and really setpeople up for success and the
very best.
Never refer to it as a test,because it's not a test, it's
not a pass fail.
It is is.
It is just an identification ofwhat talents that you have.
(15:32):
It's not doesn't mean like, oh,I mean, I know lots of people
that are not talented to be insales, but they are talented to
run organizations.
Trey Morris (15:43):
Oh, yes, they're different talents.
Matt Sunshine (15:46):
Right, and they'd be the first to say, oh, you
know what?
I am not, I don't have what ittakes to do that, but I know how
to do this.
Everyone can't do everything.
No, no, all right.
So I'm going to ask you aquestion and I need you to think
about how you're going toanswer.
Okay, without giving away namesor locations Uh-oh, Because I
(16:14):
know the story.
Can you share a story wherehiring for talent raw talent
over maybe polish and experiencereally paid off?
Maybe it was someone thatsurprised you or maybe they
outperformed expectations, but Iknow in your role you get the
(16:35):
opportunity, because some of ourclients are heavily invested in
hiring people with little to noexperience, just with talent,
and you get to work with some ofthose clients.
I bet you have an example thatyou can think of of someone who
didn't have the polish orexperience.
They had a ton of talent.
(16:57):
Tell us the story.
Trey Morris (17:00):
So I have two stories that I want to bring up.
One is the positive use of itand one is the I didn't use it
properly.
The one where I didn't use itproperly I had a gentleman that
interviewed with me long ago andhe came in and within five
(17:20):
minutes I was bored to death,like he wasn't engaging, he
wasn't exciting, he didn't talka lot, he wasn't salesy, he
wasn't like me at all.
Right, and with after fiveminutes I was like, hey, do you
wanna take a tour of the studio?
And then you take him and showhim around.
I'm like, okay, good to see you, thanks, bye, he goes.
Well.
(17:41):
He interviewed with our sisterstation and they hired him and
he became an absolute rock starand was such a great salesperson
and it was a real eye-openingmoment for me that I need to
look past my bias against quietpeople and people that aren't
(18:04):
loud and people that aren'tsalesy and like super outgoing
and I was like, oh, okay, that'sa good, that's a really good
lesson.
Now, on the positive side, I hadI never hired anyone officially
using the talent assessmentbecause it didn't exist when I
was hiring hiring salespeople.
So now I get to do it throughmy clients and I have an example
(18:26):
of a client that was lookingfor a salesperson and they found
a woman, probably in herthirties, who had no experience.
She had been a stay-at-home momand she had taken the
assessment and the assessmentwas off the charts, super talent
(18:50):
.
I mean super talent, likeacross the board talented.
And I had one manager was likewe have to hire this woman.
Did you see how talented shewas?
And we had the other person waslike she's a stay-at-home mom,
she's never sold, she's not thatdynamic.
I mean, her interview was okaybut it wasn't great.
(19:10):
And I sat down and I told himthe story about this other guy
that I didn't hire and I waslike, based on this talent and
based on my conversation withher, I think she's going to be
really, really good.
She may not do it the way thatyou and I would do it, but she's
going to do it.
They ended up hiring her andshe has been their top
salesperson for six straightyears.
(19:34):
She's never missed a budget.
She is their top biller by amile and she's one of those reps
that if you need new businessand you need something to come
in so that you can hit budget,you can call her and she will
find it and she will close it?
Matt Sunshine (19:51):
Yeah, pretty impressive, all right.
So what are some of the earlyindicators, early performance
indicators that a sales manager,sales leader, should be looking
for, watching for to know thatthey made the right hire.
Trey Morris (20:11):
So for me, it's those initial days and weeks
where I'm looking for someonewho is just all in.
They're passionate about it,they jump in, they're eating up
every bit of training, they'retalking to everybody, they're
asking questions, they'rechomping at the bit to get
(20:32):
started.
They're using all of theirconnections and relationships,
they're building out targetaccount lists and they're ready
to go.
They're doing all the thingsthat we ask them to do.
And then, once they start withthe outbound activity and trying
to get meetings, it's all aboutactivity how many people
they're calling, how manymeetings they're getting, how
(20:54):
many proposals they're doing.
Now they may not necessarilyclose everything initially,
because they're still learning,they don't know everything, but
there's activity, there's volume, there's excitement, there's
passion.
To me, that is the best signthat you've made a good hire,
because you have activity, youhave desire, you have effort.
(21:17):
All you have to do now is finetune and train the skill to be
successful.
All right.
Matt Sunshine (21:25):
Last, question For sales leaders looking to
improve or evolve their hiringapproach right now, right now
this year, this month.
What's one simple kind of amind shift this month?
(21:46):
What's one simple kind of amind shift mindset shift that
they can do or what's one simplehabit that they can start to
use that could make a bigdifference?
Trey Morris (21:53):
Look for talent everywhere.
Every time you interact withanyone, you should have your
radar up, as could this besomeone that I could add to my
talent bank.
And if you have the talentassessment, take the talent
assessment to know if they'retalented to do the job and fill
(22:17):
that talent bank all day, everyday, because if you've got a
strong talent bank, you have alot of people in that from a lot
of different walks of life,with a lot of different
experiences, and they'retalented.
We know they're talented.
You will be set and you willhave a bench that you're going
to fill out, a sales team thatis going to be good, talented
(22:37):
and ready to go, and that's whatyou need to hit budgets today.
Matt Sunshine (22:42):
Yeah, I think you're exactly right.
I've said it before we dotalent-focused management.
We make this point at TFM everysingle time we run that
workshop that having a robusttalent bank, making deposits to
your talent bank every singleweek, is the best habit that you
(23:02):
can imagine.
If, 52 a year, you made adeposit to talent bank, the
greatest feeling in the worldwe've said it before the
greatest feeling in the world isto have someone that you
believe in so much that you wantto hire and not have room to
hire them on your team when thathappens.
(23:22):
That's the greatest feeling inthe world as a sales leader.
Trey, thank you so much forjoining us.
As always, you've been aplethora of information.
I'm sure that people are goingto listen to this multiple times
because you loaded in so manygreat key takeaways.
(23:42):
If anyone wants to get a holdof Trey, the best thing that you
can do is connect with him onLinkedIn and message him.
That way.
I know he's highly responsive.
That way, we'll also put allthe information in the show
notes, and thank you everyonefor joining and listening, and
(24:20):
we look forward to seeing you onthe next episode
ofalesstrategycom.
There you can find helpfulresources and content aimed at
improving your sales performance.
Welcome to Improving Sales Performance, a
podcast highlighting tips andinsights aimed at helping sales
organizations realize, and maybeeven exceed, their goals.
Here we chat with thoughtleaders, experts and gurus who
have years of sales experiencefrom a wide range of industries.
I'm your host, matt Sunshine,ceo at the Center for Sales
Strategy, a sales performanceconsulting company.
(00:27):
In this episode, we're divinginto how identifying and
leveraging innate talent, ratherthan just experience, can help
leaders build stronger,higher-performing sales teams.
And helping me unpack it all isTrey Morris, vice President,
(00:48):
senior Consultant, director ofTraining Innovation at the
Center for Sales Strategy.
Trey's article in the 2025Talent Magazine explores how
smart hiring decisions cantransform team performance, and
Trey shares so many eye-openingtips like why hiring for raw
potential often yields betterresults than hiring for polish
(01:10):
or experience alone, how to spotinnate talent during the
interview process using toolslike a structured assessment.
And, finally, why, every timeyou interact with anyone, you
should ask yourself is thissomeone that I could add to my
talent bank?
All right, trey, let's jumpright in.
(01:37):
So in your article which, bythe way, was a great article In
your article, you made a reallystrong case for hiring based on
innate talent rather than justover past experiences, thinking
like a sales leader or think inthe mind of a sales leader.
(01:59):
Can you walk us through whatthat really looks like when a
sales leader is making thathiring decision?
Trey Morris (02:07):
Yeah.
So I think that anyone who'sbeen in management more than 15
minutes has made bad hires.
And usually that happensbecause we get excited about the
opportunity to bring on aexperienced salesperson from
another competitor across thestreet, down the road, wherever
(02:32):
and those people turn out to behorrible hires and what we find
out quickly is that experiencedoesn't necessarily mean that
they're going to be successful.
I think that, as an industry,sales is really bad at confusing
success with talent, that wethink that if they're successful
(02:54):
, oh, they must be talented, butthe reality is is, if you're at
the right company at the righttime, with the right region or
account list, you can be reallysuccessful and actually not be
very good, not be very talented,and so when you pick that
person up and you move them toyour organization, they don't
(03:16):
have everything that made themsuccessful and they fail.
And so when you're hiring, whatyou want to look for is natural
ability, natural talent, and I'mgoing to say it over and over
again today you need anassessment that's going to
scientifically measure naturalability and natural talent that
(03:40):
you can use to build on, to makesure that they have the skills
and the training and the,eventually, the experience to do
the job properly.
And if you do that, if you hiretalent and then you build on
that, you train them, you helpthem grow, they're going to be
good, maybe great, possibly thebest ever salespeople that
(04:03):
you've hired, rather than justhoping that experience
translates to the new place.
Matt Sunshine (04:09):
Yeah, well said, that's good.
That's a lot of really goodinformation in that response.
So I want to think about againfrom the sales leader's point of
view and specifically thinkingabout the interview and
selection process, like notafter that, but in the interview
(04:32):
and selection process.
When you think about thedifference between potential and
performance right, there's theperformance aspect, but there's
also the potential aspect.
How should a sales leader orsales manager balance those two
factors as they're going throughthe interview process and as
(04:54):
they're going through the finalselection?
Trey Morris (04:56):
process and a perfect opportunity.
You would want someone that haspotential or talent and they
have performance right, so youhave a successful salesperson
that's also naturally talented.
But the reality is is those arereally hard to find, and if you
(05:18):
do, they're probably reallyhappy where they are and so,
unless something bad hashappened at that other
organization, it's going to behard to recruit them to your
place.
And so really what happens isyou have the choice of
experienced salesperson orsomeone without experience that
hasn't been selling, and you'rehoping that they have potential
(05:43):
to be great because they'renaturally talented.
And the only way that you canreally know that is if you hire
using an assessment and then youfind out if that talent is
going to translate into the rolethat you're hiring for the
culture of the organization and,honestly, if you think you're
(06:04):
going to work well with thosepeople.
I personally I would ratherhire on potential when I know
that they're talented, becausethen I can train them in my ways
in how I want them to be.
They're not going to bring alot of baggage or bad habits
that experienced salespeopleoften have, and so potential is
(06:30):
better in the long run thanperformance if you're truly
hiring a talented person thatyou can build into that
long-term performance leader.
Matt Sunshine (06:43):
Makes me think about.
You know, like, when you we seea commercial or you get a, you
get an email about an investmentpossibility and they tell you
about what this type ofinvestment has done in the past,
and then there's always theasterisk.
You know, past performance notindicative of of of future
(07:03):
performance.
It's like salespeople shouldcome with that too.
Yes, past performance is not.
Trey Morris (07:11):
We both know people we've hired that should have
had that disclaimer.
Matt Sunshine (07:15):
Right, you were great.
I know you were great.
What happened to that person?
I had the right product withthe right, all the things All
right.
So you've mentioned assessmenta couple of times.
I think we both agree thathaving a validated assessment to
help you make a decision as onepiece of the puzzle in making a
(07:36):
decision is extremely valuable.
Obviously, there are lots ofgood assessments out there.
We're going to be biased to theone that we have.
Trey Morris (07:44):
Ours is the best strategy.
Let's just be honest Ours isthe best.
Matt Sunshine (07:49):
But if you can't use ours, you use something.
Okay, yes, something's betterthan nothing.
Something's better than nothing, all right, so not talking
about assessments for a second.
What are some of your go-tostrategies for identifying
innate talent in an interview,especially if you're
interviewing someone thatdoesn't have a long track record
(08:11):
?
What sort of questions or whatdo you look for?
Kind of give us some insight.
Trey Morris (08:17):
So I'm going to look for past performance, even
if that performance and thatexperience isn't related to
sales, because I want to seesomeone who has a strong work
ethic.
Well, how do I know that?
When did you start working?
What did you do?
How many jobs have you had?
(08:38):
How did you do in those jobs?
And you're going to see workethic bubble up of.
Oh, I started working when I was15 and I was a caddy at a
country club or I worked atChick-fil-A and I worked, you
know, 30 hours a week, while Ialso was a leader of the you
know whatever club in highschool and I played football and
(09:00):
they're really involved andreally active.
I'm looking for that, thatlittle bit of grit I'm looking
for.
I'm looking for someone whowants to work hard.
I want someone that hasexperience doing that.
I want people that are, thatare outgoing, that are easily
are able to talk to people, thatare not afraid to have a
(09:21):
conversation.
I was known and you know betterthan anybody I like to hire
little mini trays.
They're a little loud, theywere a little obnoxious, they
were a little aggressive,because to me, that's what I was
looking for and one of thethings the talent assessment has
shown me is there are a lot ofreally great salespeople that
(09:44):
aren't like me, and I need tolook in all of the areas, and so
some of the things that I lookfor is are they competitive,
like, did they play sports?
Did they work?
Did they have multiple jobs?
Did they put in long hours?
Are they smart?
Right, because you smart andpicks up things.
They're going to understand ourproducts or our services.
(10:06):
I'm looking for people thatthat are inquisitive, people
that that love to solve problems, people that love to ask
questions.
Those are the things that Ilook for in an interview and,
ironically, the salesassessments has those same
(10:30):
characteristics and naturaltalents that we're looking for
as well.
Matt Sunshine (10:34):
Yeah, you know, as you were talking, I was kind
of going through my mind whatare the things I, what are some
of the things I would look at?
A lot of them are very similar,but some other ones that came
up is I look at how do theyfollow up after the meeting.
Is I look at how do they followup after the meeting?
That's a great one.
Or, how do they show up?
Do they show up on time or arethey late?
(10:56):
Or, if it's a virtual meeting,what's their background look
like?
Right, I mean, how serious arethey An unmade bed.
Trey Morris (11:03):
Right, that's a deal breaker for me.
Right, that's a deal breaker.
Matt Sunshine (11:08):
Blur your back First of all.
Make your bed.
Second, blur your background.
It's not that hard.
I mean, when they tell stories Ialways look for do they say we
or I?
And if they say we, I wonderhow involved they really were.
Or are they taking credit forthings that other people did?
(11:30):
Versus I, I always like to saywhy are you interested in this
job?
Because I think it sorts to thepart of the job I listen for.
Is what they're describing moreof an account management role
or is what they're describingmore of a sales role?
(11:50):
Do they own the word sales?
Are they comfortable with thoseword sales?
I think, between what you justsaid and what I just said, we
probably have a really good listof ways to identify.
Start to identify if someonehas the talent.
All right.
So let's dive into this talentassessment thing.
You talked about the power ofusing talent assessments in the
(12:13):
article.
You've talked about it here.
How can managers use thosetools without making the process
feel robotic or impersonal?
How, how, how do you bringthose things to like, like?
So someone takes the assessmentand they're like boy.
(12:33):
I'm glad I took that assessmenttype of thing yeah.
Trey Morris (12:37):
so I think it depends on who you're
interviewing is how you set upthe assessment.
So if it's someone that doesn'thave a lot of experience and
and we and we recommend to toour clients that they should
have anyone they meet that looksremotely interesting, take the
assessment, because you neverknow where you can find a
(12:59):
diamond in the rough, someonewho's naturally talented.
When you talk to bartenders andwaiters and the guy that's
selling you your car or sellingsomething at Dillard's right, I
mean, that's where you do it,and for those people I always
say you know, have you everthought about going into sales?
We have this really coolassessment that takes about 35
minutes and you'll know.
(13:21):
And we'll know if you arenaturally gifted in sales and
you could have a whole newcareer to take that, I think,
for that.
It's an opportunity to see ifthey're good at it and you would
share that top talent reportwith them.
Matt Sunshine (13:35):
So that they can actually see.
Hey, I took this assessment.
This is what I have.
Trey Morris (13:42):
Now, if you're talking to someone who's
experienced they've been selling, and it doesn't matter if
they're selling in your industryor another industry, but they
have experience I always say wehave everyone who applies for a
position here take our salestalent assessment so that we
understand your natural talents,so that, when you are here, we
(14:02):
know what talents to coach, sothat you are the best version of
yourself.
Yeah, and then they're like ohokay, that makes sense, because
you know, you kind of assumethat when you start, when you're
here, well, they may not behere, but I'm not going to tell
them that.
But if they are talented, thisis very helpful for us.
Matt Sunshine (14:21):
I've heard you say this.
I've heard our talent analystsat CSS say this.
I've heard lots of theconsultants say this Everyone
has talents, right, anassessment is just measuring a
few of them, right, but everyonehas talents and all that we're
all trying to do on both sidesof this equation is say do the
(14:45):
talents that you have fit withthe job that we have?
Like, is it going to be asquare peg in a square hole?
I mean, that's what we're goingfor.
But the other thing that I'veheard people say and I know I've
heard you say this too is themore real that you can make this
(15:07):
.
You know, we're trying to allowpeople to soar with their
strengths right and really setpeople up for success and the
very best.
Never refer to it as a test,because it's not a test, it's
not a pass fail.
It is is.
It is just an identification ofwhat talents that you have.
(15:32):
It's not doesn't mean like, oh,I mean, I know lots of people
that are not talented to be insales, but they are talented to
run organizations.
Trey Morris (15:43):
Oh, yes, they're different talents.
Matt Sunshine (15:46):
Right, and they'd be the first to say, oh, you
know what?
I am not, I don't have what ittakes to do that, but I know how
to do this.
Everyone can't do everything.
No, no, all right.
So I'm going to ask you aquestion and I need you to think
about how you're going toanswer.
Okay, without giving away namesor locations Uh-oh, Because I
(16:14):
know the story.
Can you share a story wherehiring for talent raw talent
over maybe polish and experiencereally paid off?
Maybe it was someone thatsurprised you or maybe they
outperformed expectations, but Iknow in your role you get the
(16:35):
opportunity, because some of ourclients are heavily invested in
hiring people with little to noexperience, just with talent,
and you get to work with some ofthose clients.
I bet you have an example thatyou can think of of someone who
didn't have the polish orexperience.
They had a ton of talent.
(16:57):
Tell us the story.
Trey Morris (17:00):
So I have two stories that I want to bring up.
One is the positive use of itand one is the I didn't use it
properly.
The one where I didn't use itproperly I had a gentleman that
interviewed with me long ago andhe came in and within five
(17:20):
minutes I was bored to death,like he wasn't engaging, he
wasn't exciting, he didn't talka lot, he wasn't salesy, he
wasn't like me at all.
Right, and with after fiveminutes I was like, hey, do you
wanna take a tour of the studio?
And then you take him and showhim around.
I'm like, okay, good to see you, thanks, bye, he goes.
Well.
(17:41):
He interviewed with our sisterstation and they hired him and
he became an absolute rock starand was such a great salesperson
and it was a real eye-openingmoment for me that I need to
look past my bias against quietpeople and people that aren't
(18:04):
loud and people that aren'tsalesy and like super outgoing
and I was like, oh, okay, that'sa good, that's a really good
lesson.
Now, on the positive side, I hadI never hired anyone officially
using the talent assessmentbecause it didn't exist when I
was hiring hiring salespeople.
So now I get to do it throughmy clients and I have an example
(18:26):
of a client that was lookingfor a salesperson and they found
a woman, probably in herthirties, who had no experience.
She had been a stay-at-home momand she had taken the
assessment and the assessmentwas off the charts, super talent
(18:50):
.
I mean super talent, likeacross the board talented.
And I had one manager was likewe have to hire this woman.
Did you see how talented shewas?
And we had the other person waslike she's a stay-at-home mom,
she's never sold, she's not thatdynamic.
I mean, her interview was okaybut it wasn't great.
(19:10):
And I sat down and I told himthe story about this other guy
that I didn't hire and I waslike, based on this talent and
based on my conversation withher, I think she's going to be
really, really good.
She may not do it the way thatyou and I would do it, but she's
going to do it.
They ended up hiring her andshe has been their top
salesperson for six straightyears.
(19:34):
She's never missed a budget.
She is their top biller by amile and she's one of those reps
that if you need new businessand you need something to come
in so that you can hit budget,you can call her and she will
find it and she will close it?
Matt Sunshine (19:51):
Yeah, pretty impressive, all right.
So what are some of the earlyindicators, early performance
indicators that a sales manager,sales leader, should be looking
for, watching for to know thatthey made the right hire.
Trey Morris (20:11):
So for me, it's those initial days and weeks
where I'm looking for someonewho is just all in.
They're passionate about it,they jump in, they're eating up
every bit of training, they'retalking to everybody, they're
asking questions, they'rechomping at the bit to get
(20:32):
started.
They're using all of theirconnections and relationships,
they're building out targetaccount lists and they're ready
to go.
They're doing all the thingsthat we ask them to do.
And then, once they start withthe outbound activity and trying
to get meetings, it's all aboutactivity how many people
they're calling, how manymeetings they're getting, how
(20:54):
many proposals they're doing.
Now they may not necessarilyclose everything initially,
because they're still learning,they don't know everything, but
there's activity, there's volume, there's excitement, there's
passion.
To me, that is the best signthat you've made a good hire,
because you have activity, youhave desire, you have effort.
(21:17):
All you have to do now is finetune and train the skill to be
successful.
All right.
Matt Sunshine (21:25):
Last, question For sales leaders looking to
improve or evolve their hiringapproach right now, right now
this year, this month.
What's one simple kind of amind shift this month?
(21:46):
What's one simple kind of amind shift mindset shift that
they can do or what's one simplehabit that they can start to
use that could make a bigdifference?
Trey Morris (21:53):
Look for talent everywhere.
Every time you interact withanyone, you should have your
radar up, as could this besomeone that I could add to my
talent bank.
And if you have the talentassessment, take the talent
assessment to know if they'retalented to do the job and fill
(22:17):
that talent bank all day, everyday, because if you've got a
strong talent bank, you have alot of people in that from a lot
of different walks of life,with a lot of different
experiences, and they'retalented.
We know they're talented.
You will be set and you willhave a bench that you're going
to fill out, a sales team thatis going to be good, talented
(22:37):
and ready to go, and that's whatyou need to hit budgets today.
Matt Sunshine (22:42):
Yeah, I think you're exactly right.
I've said it before we dotalent-focused management.
We make this point at TFM everysingle time we run that
workshop that having a robusttalent bank, making deposits to
your talent bank every singleweek, is the best habit that you
(23:02):
can imagine.
If, 52 a year, you made adeposit to talent bank, the
greatest feeling in the worldwe've said it before the
greatest feeling in the world isto have someone that you
believe in so much that you wantto hire and not have room to
hire them on your team when thathappens.
(23:22):
That's the greatest feeling inthe world as a sales leader.
Trey, thank you so much forjoining us.
As always, you've been aplethora of information.
I'm sure that people are goingto listen to this multiple times
because you loaded in so manygreat key takeaways.
(23:42):
If anyone wants to get a holdof Trey, the best thing that you
can do is connect with him onLinkedIn and message him.
That way.
I know he's highly responsive.
That way, we'll also put allthe information in the show
notes, and thank you everyonefor joining and listening, and
(24:20):
we look forward to seeing you onthe next episode
ofalesstrategycom.
There you can find helpfulresources and content aimed at
improving your sales performance.
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