February 22, 2024 • 21 mins
In this episode, we’re once again diving into The 5th Annual Media Sales Report by The Center for Sales Strategy.
Today, we’re exploring why sales managers are experiencing such increased difficulty in achieving organizational goals.
Joining Matt to discuss that and so much more is Stephanie Downs, SVP/Senior Consultant here at CSS.
Stephanie provides such valuable insights, like:
- How a sales manager’s calendar should reflect a strategy of developing and coaching their people
- Why we often make recruitment harder on ourselves by not having a firm plan in place
- And, finally, why adding more people to your sales team is not always the solution
Links:
The 5th Annual Media Sales Report
Stephanie Downs
Matt Sunshine
The Center for Sales Strategy
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt Sunshine (00:15):
Welcome to Improving Sales Performance, a
podcast highlighting tips andinsights aimed at helping sales
organizations realize, and maybeeven exceed, their goals.
Here we chat with thoughtleaders, experts and gurus who
have years of sales experiencefrom a wide range of industries.
I'm your host, matt Sunshine,ceo at the Center for Sales
Strategy, a sales performanceconsulting company.
(00:37):
In this episode, we're onceagain diving into the fifth
annual media sales report by theCenter for Sales Strategy.
Today we're exploring why salesmanagers are experiencing such
increased difficulty inachieving organizational goals.
(00:59):
Joining me to discuss that andso much more is Stephanie Downs,
svp, senior Consultant here atCSS.
Stephanie provides suchvaluable insights like how a
sales manager's calendar shouldreflect the strategy of
developing and coaching theirpeople, why we often make
recruitment harder on ourselvesby not having a firm plan in
(01:23):
place and, finally, why addingpeople to your sales team is not
always the solution.
With that, let's get theconversation started.
So in the most recent mediasales report the fifth annual
(01:46):
media sales report we learnedthat 81% or the data suggested
that 81% of sales managers saythat achieving their company,
their organizational goals isbecoming even more difficult.
So here are the questions foryou what are you seeing that
(02:09):
might be causing that and whatadvice do you have for the sales
managers that might belistening to this, who are those
81% that are struggling to meettheir organizational goals?
Stephanie Downs (02:25):
Yeah.
So a couple of conversationsthat I'm having pretty
frequently related to this topic, because it's coming up a lot
recently is Coach the Coach andI'll come back to that in a
second and what's being tracked,just from a leading indicator
standpoint and from anaccountability standpoint.
And also structure hearing lotsof things about is my structure
(02:49):
working today and are changesneeded?
So, from an advice standpoint,I'm going to start with the
Coach the Coach piece of that,because that seems to be coming
up a lot lately.
If I was a sales leader, I wouldpay attention to my calendar.
Here's what I mean by that.
I would look at my calendar andsay does my calendar reflect
(03:13):
the strategy of developing andcoaching people or does my
calendar reflect something verydifferent from that?
My guess is that it may notreflect the strategy of coaching
and developing people, and ourpeople are our biggest asset.
They should be where we'reinvesting the majority of our
time.
So that would be one thing.
(03:35):
Something else that I wouldrecommend on that is from a
structure standpoint, becausethere's a lot of conversations
about changing of structures.
I would just ask yourself a fewsimple questions of is your
current structure doing what itwas designed to do?
And, if not, think about yourthree KPIs, your paying
(03:55):
attention to your performancemetrics, whatever those are,
thank you.
What of those threes are notbeing achieved and what in the
structure is not supporting that?
And so, whether that's thenumber of people or new
positions needed, or a leadgeneration strategy, I mean
there could be a number ofdifferent things, but I would
(04:16):
start with that calendarstrategy and asking yourself a
couple simple questions aboutstructure.
Matt Sunshine (04:23):
Yeah, I it's.
It's interesting conversationand and we certainly hear this
again and again and again andthe coaching mindset, yeah, it's
becoming increasingly moreimportant.
The I read.
I'm a big fan of John Gordonand John Posted something on
(04:48):
LinkedIn yesterday where he saidhe is having a conversation
with John Maxwell, the author,and he said to John Maxwell how
do you do it Like you're, you'rebrilliant, right.
And um, john Maxwell said tohim you know, it's consistency,
consistency and and consistencycompounds.
(05:09):
That's right.
Yeah, I love that right.
And so I read that as aconsistent compound, saying, oh,
that's so Careful thing.
Coaching someone one time,don't, don't bother.
I mean, okay, I gave himcoaching check.
No, it's a, it's a constantcommitment, that's right.
(05:30):
Coaching, yeah, consistencycompounds, coaching.
Stephanie Downs (05:35):
Frequency yeah, yeah all right.
Matt Sunshine (05:39):
so digging deeper into the media sales report Um,
recruitment always going to bea topic, yeah, we find ourselves
talking about, and in someyears it's it's, uh, easier, in
some years it's harder.
Some years you're needing tohire more people, other years
(06:01):
You're not needing to hire asmany people.
But, yeah, 43% of salesmanagers still say it is the
hardest part of their job.
Um, whether it is hard outthere, whatever it, 43 percent
just under half are saying it'sthe hardest part of the job.
(06:22):
So what can managers do to makethis part of their job a little
easier?
And how can managers Betterrecruit while keeping uh and I
on achieving thoseorganizational goals?
Stephanie Downs (06:37):
Yeah, yeah, um.
So I agree it is hard out there.
I don't want to minimize thefact that it's hard out there,
but I think we also make thatharder on ourselves too, because
we don't have Um a plan inplace for it, right?
Or we do it when we have openpositions and not all year round
.
We should be doing that all thetime and building our talent
(07:01):
bank, right, um, and I thinkthat sales leaders also fill the
pressure that they have to doit all themselves.
Don't do it in a vacuum.
Get people to help you, right.
Have a team.
Ask your employees, createemployee incentive plans to to
get referrals from them.
Ask clients for referrals.
(07:22):
Use nominator questions to makethe efforts when you are
recruiting Better.
Don't just say who are the bestsales people.
You know that.
Call on you, um.
Who are those that Problemsolve on a regular basis.
Who has the best ideas?
Who, um are naturallyinquisitive, you know.
(07:43):
Think about what that Outboundeffort looks and sounds like.
But you know it goes back toeven what we were saying earlier
about your strategy on thecalendar.
You have to put 60 minutes onthe calendar every week that you
are actively having candidateconversations or that you're
searching on social media orreaching out to clients,
(08:06):
whatever that is, but you got tohave a strategy to support it.
Matt Sunshine (08:10):
Yeah, absolutely, um, yeah, absolutely, and and I
know you're getting ready to,uh, to lead talent focus
management, like this week today, and that'll be, uh, this will
be one of the things that I knowyou're gonna focus on and I
think that every one of thebiggest takeaways that that is,
(08:34):
that is shared at the end ofevery talent focus management
workshop that CSS has ever doneand I don't know how many CSS
has done.
I would imagine that we'veprobably run that workshop a
couple of hundred times.
Yeah, over the years, rightover the last 40 years.
Um, I Would say 100% of thetime at the end of that workshop
(08:59):
when we go around the room andsay biggest takeaways Talent
Bank.
Stephanie Downs (09:04):
Talent Bank every single time.
Yeah, and and I think that'swhen I was saying they make it
harder on themselves.
They know they need to be doingit, they just don't always do
it.
This falls into the category ofjust doing.
Matt Sunshine (09:20):
Right, just do it , make it a priority.
Stephanie Downs (09:23):
Make it a priority and 60 minutes on your
calendar every week do it.
Yeah.
Matt Sunshine (09:29):
I do know of one general manager in in the
broadcast broadcast arena thatEvery single one of his sales
manager, or their sales managers, is required to spend 60
(09:49):
minutes a week on recruitmentrequired and required to report
Outcomes and you know with thattoo, more senior leaders and
organizations, general manager,etc.
Stephanie Downs (10:05):
Make that part of your weekly one-on-one with
your sales leaders.
Have them bring to thosemeetings when you think about
the agenda for those meetings,have that as part of the regular
conversation.
How many candidateconversations Did you have this
week?
How much time did you spend?
How many people do you have inyour talent bank?
Make that part of the weeklyagenda 20 years ago.
Matt Sunshine (10:26):
20 years ago, when I worked at a Radio
broadcaster I worked atSusquehanna radio I had an MBO
that was paid monthly, monthly,and all I had to do to earn that
monthly MBO is Show my updatedtalent bank and highlight, put
(10:48):
in yellow, the new people thathad been added to it.
As long as there was it, therewere at least a minimum number
of people that I would earn myMBO.
Stephanie Downs (10:59):
I like it, it, it's not, and there's nothing
new but it truly falls into thewhat gets measured gets done.
Matt Sunshine (11:09):
Hey, you want that MBO, here you go.
All you have you can keep anupdated talent bank.
Yeah, love that.
Yeah, all right.
So Size of sales teams here'sthe question.
So 53% just over half 53% ofsales managers say they are
(11:31):
Disatisfied with the size oftheir sales team.
Okay, so that could mean thatthey think they're too big or
too small, they're justDisatisfied with the size.
So do you think the size of thesales team can determine the
overall whether or not youachieve your goals, or is it
more of a talent issue?
It's not that you need morepeople, you just need more
(11:53):
talented people.
Which one?
Both?
How does that work?
Stephanie Downs (11:58):
Can I say yes, no, and both Can.
The size of the sales teamimpact performance for sure.
I mean if you have too fewpeople, like genuinely, you have
an open position and you havemore?
Yes, of course that can impactit right.
If you have too many people,that can impact it as well.
And it's not easy to find theperfect number.
(12:21):
Let's be honest, it's a hardplace to find the exact right
number.
Let's be honest, it's a hardplace to find the exact right
number.
But adding people to the teamis not always the solution.
It's not, and I think a lot ofsales leaders default to that.
I need more people.
I need more people in thestreet.
I need more people calling onpeople.
It's not always the solution.
(12:44):
Couple of thoughts on it From atalent standpoint, a little bit
of a twist on that.
I would think more about thestamp, more about do you have
non-performers on the team?
Are there people that are notconsistently performing?
And I know, matt, you and I'vehad this conversation a number
of times, but think how oftenwe've heard not everybody on the
(13:05):
team can be an A player.
That that drives me crazy.
It's like, yes, it's likefingers on it, nails on a
chalkboard, right?
My immediate response is why not?
It doesn't mean that it's easyto have all A players on the
team, but we should have themindset that we should have all
A players on the team and striveto get there.
(13:26):
So, with your really thinkingabout the size of your sales
team, I would start with reallydoing some performance analysis
over a period of time of lookingat everybody and how they're
contributing to the overallorganization.
And if you have C players, getthem to be a, b or an A player,
or consider moving them out ofthe organization, et cetera.
(13:49):
B to A have the mindset of allA players.
Matt Sunshine (13:54):
Yeah, you know the other.
You're exactly right, it drivesme absolutely, that's that is
nails on a chalkboard.
The other thing that strikes meabout this is sometimes sales
teams.
What I've seen is sales teams,sales.
There might be fewer salespeople, but sales teams have
(14:15):
expanded right.
So so we're in the.
In the old days, five years ago, you had seven sales people and
two assistants, so you had ninepeople.
Today maybe you have five salespeople, but you have two
account managers, a specialistand a sales manager yeah.
Stephanie Downs (14:40):
Well, it goes back to what we were saying
earlier in the conversationabout structure.
Right, the, the siloed salesstructure, is not working.
It hasn't worked for years, butit is definitely not working
today.
And I think that's really whereyou have to step back and say
you know, do you need a leadgeneration strategy?
Do you have the right strategyfor growing key accounts and
(15:05):
super serving key accounts?
Do you have the right strategyto support solution selling or a
strategy structure?
When I say strategy, I meanstructure.
The and if you're not thinkingabout structure changes, even
the number of people reportingto a sales leader.
It probably should be.
Matt Sunshine (15:25):
So years ago I don't remember what year Jim
hopes the full-time presidentfor sales strategy wrote a white
paper.
Stephanie Downs (15:33):
That was a lot of years ago.
Matt Sunshine (15:35):
Right about the lone wolf sales model and I
don't remember.
I bet that's 15 years ago.
Stephanie Downs (15:41):
Yeah, he was right then.
Matt Sunshine (15:43):
And it was that's right.
He was right then, it's stillright.
So if you're listening to this,you should go to our website,
or I bet, if you just Googlelone wolf, I bet, if you Google
it, yeah.
Lone wolf sales approach by thecenter for sales strategy.
I bet you find it.
I bet it comes up.
All right.
Next question 90% ofsalespeople and 74% of sales
(16:09):
managers are looking for hybridwork in one form or another.
Most people are not saying thatthey want to be remote and most
people are also saying theydon't want to be in office.
Most people 90% of salespeople,74% of sales managers hybrid in
(16:31):
one form or another.
What do you think of this, anddo you think where people are
working has an impact on theirability to achieve their goals?
Stephanie Downs (16:40):
Yeah, so the first part of that it's not
surprising.
Really, there's lots ofresearch out there.
I mean, this is one data pointof it, but there's a lot of
research to say that.
So it's not surprising.
But as I was thinking aboutthis question coming in today, I
really had a little bit of atwist of a takeaway on this one.
It's more of what you do withthat information, and here's
(17:01):
what I mean by that.
We've experienced this with anumber of our clients.
It's the inconsistency inhaving a plan for your
organization, meaning don't saywe're gonna be back in the
office full time and then allowsome people not to be back in
the office full time.
Don't say we're gonna be acompletely work from home
(17:24):
organization and then say, well,we really need everybody in a
day or two and wait.
Have a plan and stick to it.
The inconsistency of your plandoes more harm in just saying
this is the way that it's goingto be.
So that's one thing.
But also consider it when youare recruiting Full disclosure
(17:46):
to the candidates that you'rerecruiting, right when you're
looking.
But there's different peoplewho want different things.
Just know what yours is andknow what's important to the
candidate.
So just full disclosure fromthat standpoint.
And back to the second part ofyour question about does it
impact the ability to achievegoals.
(18:06):
It shouldn't.
It can but it shouldn't.
And here's a couple of thingswith that.
You may need differentprocesses in place.
You may need different talentsfor some salespeople.
We learned through the earlyyears of COVID, when everything
(18:29):
was worked from home.
We learned that discipline froma talent standpoint was way
more important than it's alwaysimportant, let's be honest.
But it came to life more.
How's that?
Because if people aren't in theoffice, so you may need some
talents may be more mandatorythan they needed to be before,
(18:51):
processes may look a littledifferently, but it shouldn't
impact organizational goals.
If you're paying attention tothe right things, tracking the
right things, the performanceshould still follow, and if it's
not, then other things need tochange.
Matt Sunshine (19:05):
Yeah, and I think that you're right.
The number one, or one of themost important things is
certainly to be very transparenton this.
Is what we do here.
Right, yeah, and leaving itvague.
Stephanie Downs (19:23):
It's not good.
Matt Sunshine (19:24):
It's not good and I understand why leadership
sometimes wants to be vague,because they don't want to seem
heavy-handed and they don't wantto feel like they're mandating
things, and I get that.
But all you're doing isfrustrating everybody else by
doing that.
Stephanie Downs (19:40):
That's right yeah.
Matt Sunshine (19:42):
Right, Because everyone is waiting for someone
to say here are the rules.
Stephanie Downs (19:47):
Yeah.
Matt Sunshine (19:48):
And just give us the rules.
Let us play.
Stephanie Downs (19:52):
Transparency, transparency, transparency.
Matt Sunshine (19:56):
Yeah, all right.
So, stephanie, thank you somuch for joining the podcast
today, really appreciate yourinsights.
You are so valuable and soappreciated.
So thank you for joining us andthank you everyone for
listening or watching.
We really appreciate you.
Please tune in for the net.
(20:16):
We are going through the entireMedia Sales Report and
producing several of thesepodcasts that are specifically
on the Media Sales Report.
So thanks for listening to thisone, but make sure you listen
to the others as well, and we'llsee you again on another
Improving Sales Performancepodcast.
(20:36):
This has been Improving SalesPerformance.
Thanks for listening.
If you like what you heard,join us every week by clicking
the Subscribe button For more onthe topics covered in the show.
Visit our website,thecenterforsalesstrategycom.
There you can find helpfulresources and content aimed at
(20:57):
improving your sales performance.
Welcome to Improving Sales Performance, a
podcast highlighting tips andinsights aimed at helping sales
organizations realize, and maybeeven exceed, their goals.
Here we chat with thoughtleaders, experts and gurus who
have years of sales experiencefrom a wide range of industries.
I'm your host, matt Sunshine,ceo at the Center for Sales
Strategy, a sales performanceconsulting company.
(00:37):
In this episode, we're onceagain diving into the fifth
annual media sales report by theCenter for Sales Strategy.
Today we're exploring why salesmanagers are experiencing such
increased difficulty inachieving organizational goals.
(00:59):
Joining me to discuss that andso much more is Stephanie Downs,
svp, senior Consultant here atCSS.
Stephanie provides suchvaluable insights like how a
sales manager's calendar shouldreflect the strategy of
developing and coaching theirpeople, why we often make
recruitment harder on ourselvesby not having a firm plan in
(01:23):
place and, finally, why addingpeople to your sales team is not
always the solution.
With that, let's get theconversation started.
So in the most recent mediasales report the fifth annual
(01:46):
media sales report we learnedthat 81% or the data suggested
that 81% of sales managers saythat achieving their company,
their organizational goals isbecoming even more difficult.
So here are the questions foryou what are you seeing that
(02:09):
might be causing that and whatadvice do you have for the sales
managers that might belistening to this, who are those
81% that are struggling to meettheir organizational goals?
Stephanie Downs (02:25):
Yeah.
So a couple of conversationsthat I'm having pretty
frequently related to this topic, because it's coming up a lot
recently is Coach the Coach andI'll come back to that in a
second and what's being tracked,just from a leading indicator
standpoint and from anaccountability standpoint.
And also structure hearing lotsof things about is my structure
(02:49):
working today and are changesneeded?
So, from an advice standpoint,I'm going to start with the
Coach the Coach piece of that,because that seems to be coming
up a lot lately.
If I was a sales leader, I wouldpay attention to my calendar.
Here's what I mean by that.
I would look at my calendar andsay does my calendar reflect
(03:13):
the strategy of developing andcoaching people or does my
calendar reflect something verydifferent from that?
My guess is that it may notreflect the strategy of coaching
and developing people, and ourpeople are our biggest asset.
They should be where we'reinvesting the majority of our
time.
So that would be one thing.
(03:35):
Something else that I wouldrecommend on that is from a
structure standpoint, becausethere's a lot of conversations
about changing of structures.
I would just ask yourself a fewsimple questions of is your
current structure doing what itwas designed to do?
And, if not, think about yourthree KPIs, your paying
(03:55):
attention to your performancemetrics, whatever those are,
thank you.
What of those threes are notbeing achieved and what in the
structure is not supporting that?
And so, whether that's thenumber of people or new
positions needed, or a leadgeneration strategy, I mean
there could be a number ofdifferent things, but I would
(04:16):
start with that calendarstrategy and asking yourself a
couple simple questions aboutstructure.
Matt Sunshine (04:23):
Yeah, I it's.
It's interesting conversationand and we certainly hear this
again and again and again andthe coaching mindset, yeah, it's
becoming increasingly moreimportant.
The I read.
I'm a big fan of John Gordonand John Posted something on
(04:48):
LinkedIn yesterday where he saidhe is having a conversation
with John Maxwell, the author,and he said to John Maxwell how
do you do it Like you're, you'rebrilliant, right.
And um, john Maxwell said tohim you know, it's consistency,
consistency and and consistencycompounds.
(05:09):
That's right.
Yeah, I love that right.
And so I read that as aconsistent compound, saying, oh,
that's so Careful thing.
Coaching someone one time,don't, don't bother.
I mean, okay, I gave himcoaching check.
No, it's a, it's a constantcommitment, that's right.
(05:30):
Coaching, yeah, consistencycompounds, coaching.
Stephanie Downs (05:35):
Frequency yeah, yeah all right.
Matt Sunshine (05:39):
so digging deeper into the media sales report Um,
recruitment always going to bea topic, yeah, we find ourselves
talking about, and in someyears it's it's, uh, easier, in
some years it's harder.
Some years you're needing tohire more people, other years
(06:01):
You're not needing to hire asmany people.
But, yeah, 43% of salesmanagers still say it is the
hardest part of their job.
Um, whether it is hard outthere, whatever it, 43 percent
just under half are saying it'sthe hardest part of the job.
(06:22):
So what can managers do to makethis part of their job a little
easier?
And how can managers Betterrecruit while keeping uh and I
on achieving thoseorganizational goals?
Stephanie Downs (06:37):
Yeah, yeah, um.
So I agree it is hard out there.
I don't want to minimize thefact that it's hard out there,
but I think we also make thatharder on ourselves too, because
we don't have Um a plan inplace for it, right?
Or we do it when we have openpositions and not all year round
.
We should be doing that all thetime and building our talent
(07:01):
bank, right, um, and I thinkthat sales leaders also fill the
pressure that they have to doit all themselves.
Don't do it in a vacuum.
Get people to help you, right.
Have a team.
Ask your employees, createemployee incentive plans to to
get referrals from them.
Ask clients for referrals.
(07:22):
Use nominator questions to makethe efforts when you are
recruiting Better.
Don't just say who are the bestsales people.
You know that.
Call on you, um.
Who are those that Problemsolve on a regular basis.
Who has the best ideas?
Who, um are naturallyinquisitive, you know.
(07:43):
Think about what that Outboundeffort looks and sounds like.
But you know it goes back toeven what we were saying earlier
about your strategy on thecalendar.
You have to put 60 minutes onthe calendar every week that you
are actively having candidateconversations or that you're
searching on social media orreaching out to clients,
(08:06):
whatever that is, but you got tohave a strategy to support it.
Matt Sunshine (08:10):
Yeah, absolutely, um, yeah, absolutely, and and I
know you're getting ready to,uh, to lead talent focus
management, like this week today, and that'll be, uh, this will
be one of the things that I knowyou're gonna focus on and I
think that every one of thebiggest takeaways that that is,
(08:34):
that is shared at the end ofevery talent focus management
workshop that CSS has ever doneand I don't know how many CSS
has done.
I would imagine that we'veprobably run that workshop a
couple of hundred times.
Yeah, over the years, rightover the last 40 years.
Um, I Would say 100% of thetime at the end of that workshop
(08:59):
when we go around the room andsay biggest takeaways Talent
Bank.
Stephanie Downs (09:04):
Talent Bank every single time.
Yeah, and and I think that'swhen I was saying they make it
harder on themselves.
They know they need to be doingit, they just don't always do
it.
This falls into the category ofjust doing.
Matt Sunshine (09:20):
Right, just do it , make it a priority.
Stephanie Downs (09:23):
Make it a priority and 60 minutes on your
calendar every week do it.
Yeah.
Matt Sunshine (09:29):
I do know of one general manager in in the
broadcast broadcast arena thatEvery single one of his sales
manager, or their sales managers, is required to spend 60
(09:49):
minutes a week on recruitmentrequired and required to report
Outcomes and you know with thattoo, more senior leaders and
organizations, general manager,etc.
Stephanie Downs (10:05):
Make that part of your weekly one-on-one with
your sales leaders.
Have them bring to thosemeetings when you think about
the agenda for those meetings,have that as part of the regular
conversation.
How many candidateconversations Did you have this
week?
How much time did you spend?
How many people do you have inyour talent bank?
Make that part of the weeklyagenda 20 years ago.
Matt Sunshine (10:26):
20 years ago, when I worked at a Radio
broadcaster I worked atSusquehanna radio I had an MBO
that was paid monthly, monthly,and all I had to do to earn that
monthly MBO is Show my updatedtalent bank and highlight, put
(10:48):
in yellow, the new people thathad been added to it.
As long as there was it, therewere at least a minimum number
of people that I would earn myMBO.
Stephanie Downs (10:59):
I like it, it, it's not, and there's nothing
new but it truly falls into thewhat gets measured gets done.
Matt Sunshine (11:09):
Hey, you want that MBO, here you go.
All you have you can keep anupdated talent bank.
Yeah, love that.
Yeah, all right.
So Size of sales teams here'sthe question.
So 53% just over half 53% ofsales managers say they are
(11:31):
Disatisfied with the size oftheir sales team.
Okay, so that could mean thatthey think they're too big or
too small, they're justDisatisfied with the size.
So do you think the size of thesales team can determine the
overall whether or not youachieve your goals, or is it
more of a talent issue?
It's not that you need morepeople, you just need more
(11:53):
talented people.
Which one?
Both?
How does that work?
Stephanie Downs (11:58):
Can I say yes, no, and both Can.
The size of the sales teamimpact performance for sure.
I mean if you have too fewpeople, like genuinely, you have
an open position and you havemore?
Yes, of course that can impactit right.
If you have too many people,that can impact it as well.
And it's not easy to find theperfect number.
(12:21):
Let's be honest, it's a hardplace to find the exact right
number.
Let's be honest, it's a hardplace to find the exact right
number.
But adding people to the teamis not always the solution.
It's not, and I think a lot ofsales leaders default to that.
I need more people.
I need more people in thestreet.
I need more people calling onpeople.
It's not always the solution.
(12:44):
Couple of thoughts on it From atalent standpoint, a little bit
of a twist on that.
I would think more about thestamp, more about do you have
non-performers on the team?
Are there people that are notconsistently performing?
And I know, matt, you and I'vehad this conversation a number
of times, but think how oftenwe've heard not everybody on the
(13:05):
team can be an A player.
That that drives me crazy.
It's like, yes, it's likefingers on it, nails on a
chalkboard, right?
My immediate response is why not?
It doesn't mean that it's easyto have all A players on the
team, but we should have themindset that we should have all
A players on the team and striveto get there.
(13:26):
So, with your really thinkingabout the size of your sales
team, I would start with reallydoing some performance analysis
over a period of time of lookingat everybody and how they're
contributing to the overallorganization.
And if you have C players, getthem to be a, b or an A player,
or consider moving them out ofthe organization, et cetera.
(13:49):
B to A have the mindset of allA players.
Matt Sunshine (13:54):
Yeah, you know the other.
You're exactly right, it drivesme absolutely, that's that is
nails on a chalkboard.
The other thing that strikes meabout this is sometimes sales
teams.
What I've seen is sales teams,sales.
There might be fewer salespeople, but sales teams have
(14:15):
expanded right.
So so we're in the.
In the old days, five years ago, you had seven sales people and
two assistants, so you had ninepeople.
Today maybe you have five salespeople, but you have two
account managers, a specialistand a sales manager yeah.
Stephanie Downs (14:40):
Well, it goes back to what we were saying
earlier in the conversationabout structure.
Right, the, the siloed salesstructure, is not working.
It hasn't worked for years, butit is definitely not working
today.
And I think that's really whereyou have to step back and say
you know, do you need a leadgeneration strategy?
Do you have the right strategyfor growing key accounts and
(15:05):
super serving key accounts?
Do you have the right strategyto support solution selling or a
strategy structure?
When I say strategy, I meanstructure.
The and if you're not thinkingabout structure changes, even
the number of people reportingto a sales leader.
It probably should be.
Matt Sunshine (15:25):
So years ago I don't remember what year Jim
hopes the full-time presidentfor sales strategy wrote a white
paper.
Stephanie Downs (15:33):
That was a lot of years ago.
Matt Sunshine (15:35):
Right about the lone wolf sales model and I
don't remember.
I bet that's 15 years ago.
Stephanie Downs (15:41):
Yeah, he was right then.
Matt Sunshine (15:43):
And it was that's right.
He was right then, it's stillright.
So if you're listening to this,you should go to our website,
or I bet, if you just Googlelone wolf, I bet, if you Google
it, yeah.
Lone wolf sales approach by thecenter for sales strategy.
I bet you find it.
I bet it comes up.
All right.
Next question 90% ofsalespeople and 74% of sales
(16:09):
managers are looking for hybridwork in one form or another.
Most people are not saying thatthey want to be remote and most
people are also saying theydon't want to be in office.
Most people 90% of salespeople,74% of sales managers hybrid in
(16:31):
one form or another.
What do you think of this, anddo you think where people are
working has an impact on theirability to achieve their goals?
Stephanie Downs (16:40):
Yeah, so the first part of that it's not
surprising.
Really, there's lots ofresearch out there.
I mean, this is one data pointof it, but there's a lot of
research to say that.
So it's not surprising.
But as I was thinking aboutthis question coming in today, I
really had a little bit of atwist of a takeaway on this one.
It's more of what you do withthat information, and here's
(17:01):
what I mean by that.
We've experienced this with anumber of our clients.
It's the inconsistency inhaving a plan for your
organization, meaning don't saywe're gonna be back in the
office full time and then allowsome people not to be back in
the office full time.
Don't say we're gonna be acompletely work from home
(17:24):
organization and then say, well,we really need everybody in a
day or two and wait.
Have a plan and stick to it.
The inconsistency of your plandoes more harm in just saying
this is the way that it's goingto be.
So that's one thing.
But also consider it when youare recruiting Full disclosure
(17:46):
to the candidates that you'rerecruiting, right when you're
looking.
But there's different peoplewho want different things.
Just know what yours is andknow what's important to the
candidate.
So just full disclosure fromthat standpoint.
And back to the second part ofyour question about does it
impact the ability to achievegoals.
(18:06):
It shouldn't.
It can but it shouldn't.
And here's a couple of thingswith that.
You may need differentprocesses in place.
You may need different talentsfor some salespeople.
We learned through the earlyyears of COVID, when everything
(18:29):
was worked from home.
We learned that discipline froma talent standpoint was way
more important than it's alwaysimportant, let's be honest.
But it came to life more.
How's that?
Because if people aren't in theoffice, so you may need some
talents may be more mandatorythan they needed to be before,
(18:51):
processes may look a littledifferently, but it shouldn't
impact organizational goals.
If you're paying attention tothe right things, tracking the
right things, the performanceshould still follow, and if it's
not, then other things need tochange.
Matt Sunshine (19:05):
Yeah, and I think that you're right.
The number one, or one of themost important things is
certainly to be very transparenton this.
Is what we do here.
Right, yeah, and leaving itvague.
Stephanie Downs (19:23):
It's not good.
Matt Sunshine (19:24):
It's not good and I understand why leadership
sometimes wants to be vague,because they don't want to seem
heavy-handed and they don't wantto feel like they're mandating
things, and I get that.
But all you're doing isfrustrating everybody else by
doing that.
Stephanie Downs (19:40):
That's right yeah.
Matt Sunshine (19:42):
Right, Because everyone is waiting for someone
to say here are the rules.
Stephanie Downs (19:47):
Yeah.
Matt Sunshine (19:48):
And just give us the rules.
Let us play.
Stephanie Downs (19:52):
Transparency, transparency, transparency.
Matt Sunshine (19:56):
Yeah, all right.
So, stephanie, thank you somuch for joining the podcast
today, really appreciate yourinsights.
You are so valuable and soappreciated.
So thank you for joining us andthank you everyone for
listening or watching.
We really appreciate you.
Please tune in for the net.
(20:16):
We are going through the entireMedia Sales Report and
producing several of thesepodcasts that are specifically
on the Media Sales Report.
So thanks for listening to thisone, but make sure you listen
to the others as well, and we'llsee you again on another
Improving Sales Performancepodcast.
(20:36):
This has been Improving SalesPerformance.
Thanks for listening.
If you like what you heard,join us every week by clicking
the Subscribe button For more onthe topics covered in the show.
Visit our website,thecenterforsalesstrategycom.
There you can find helpfulresources and content aimed at
(20:57):
improving your sales performance.
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