February 29, 2024 • 26 mins
In this episode, we’re continuing our season-long deep dive into the latest Media Sales Report from The Center for Sales Strategy.
And today, Trey Morris, VP/ Senior Consultant here at CSS, is joining Matt to help answer the question, “Why is it getting harder to convert prospects and renew clients?”
Trey brings so many great points to the table, such as:
- How too many salespeople are pitching products instead of solutions
- Why sellers need to do a better job of helping existing clients figure out what’s working and what’s not working early on in their business relationship
- And, finally, why it’s so important for every seller to give the best reason possible for prospects to want to meet with them
Links:
The 5th Annual Media Sales Report
Trey Morris
Matt Sunshine
The Center for Sales Strategy
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt Sunshine (00:15):
Welcome to Improving Sales Performance, a
podcast highlighting tips andinsights aimed at helping sales
organizations realize, and maybeeven exceed, their goals.
Here we chat with thoughtleaders, experts and gurus who
have years of sales experiencefrom a wide range of industries.
I'm your host, matt Sunshine,ceo at the Center for Sales
Strategy, a sales performanceconsulting company.
(00:37):
In this episode we'recontinuing our season-long deep
dive into the latest media salesreport from the Center for
Sales Strategy, and today TreyMorris, vp Senior Consultant
here at CSS, is joining me tohelp answer the question why is
(00:58):
it getting harder to convertprospects and renew clients?
Trey brings so many greatpoints to the table, such as how
too many salespeople arepitching products instead of
solutions, why sellers need todo a better job of helping
existing clients figure outwhat's working and what's not
working early on in theirbusiness relationship and,
(01:20):
finally, why is it so importantfor every seller to give the
best reason possible forprospects to want to meet with
them.
With that, let's get theconversation going.
So, trey, in the just recentlypublished fifth annual, can you
(01:44):
believe it's already been thefifth annual?
It's hard to believe.
That's very cool the fifthannual media sales report.
I found this interesting.
I thought we'd kick it off withthis 57% of salespeople tell us
that converting prospects isbecoming more difficult.
Not that we're shocked by that,but that is what the data shows
(02:09):
57% of salespeople tell usconverting prospects has become
more difficult.
So here are my questions.
It's kind of a two-partquestion what are you hearing
firsthand?
What are you hearing and why doyou think this is the case?
And then the second one is whatadvice do you have for
(02:29):
salespeople that are frustratedby this?
What advice do you?
Trey Morris (02:35):
have.
So what I'm hearing and I'msurprised that it's only 57%
Based on anecdotal data of justpeople I talked to, it would be
108% of people think it's hardertoday.
That's all I hear In everyclient that we work with.
(02:56):
It's how do we get moremeetings?
How do we get more meetings?
How do we convert a prospectinto a client?
And the reality is it is harder.
All of this really cooltechnology has made it super
easy for us to ignore people,and so that's what's happened.
I mean especially with workingremote.
(03:18):
So many of the people thatwe're trying to get in front of,
they're not in the office,they're not in the store,
they're somewhere else, and sogetting a hold of them is tough.
Also, you're seeing a lot ofproblems with people that are
kind of putting their toes inthe water.
(03:38):
If they do get a meeting andthere is a presentation, they're
not really that serious aboutit because they just don't know
about visibility.
No one knows what the economy isgoing to be like in two months,
six months, a year, tomorrow ina lot of cases.
(04:00):
So people are nervous.
Cash flow is an issue.
We get mixed signals on theeconomy, so there's a lot of
reasons that people aren'tmoving forward, but I think the
biggest reason is that so manysalespeople are still relying on
pitching product and they'renot providing solutions, they're
(04:20):
not demonstrating how they aregoing to add value and they're
going to be able to solve thatprospect's problems or help them
achieve a goal.
And so the reality is is thatif you're just pitching product
and they're already nervousabout the economy and they don't
really want to spend the moneyand they don't necessarily
believe what you're talkingabout is going to help them,
(04:44):
they're not going to make adecision, they're not going to
say yes, they're not going toconvert and become a customer,
and that's just the reality ofSales, no matter what you're
selling.
Yeah, folks, on what?
Matt Sunshine (04:55):
you saw not what you sell?
Yeah, all right.
So sales people are alsoReporting, based on our survey,
that it's more difficult when itcomes to renewing clients.
It's hard enough to get to geta client.
It's becoming more challengingnow to renew.
Actually, 42% Say that renewalsare getting tougher than before
(05:19):
.
So why, what contributingfactors are making are causing
this and what advice do you have?
What can sellers do to setthemselves up for success To
renew their clients?
Trey Morris (05:34):
Yeah, this is something that I am seeing more
of today than, honestly, I thinkI've ever seen before, and so I
think that a lot of it is thatPart of it is on the sales
person's Issue not doing whatthey should be doing.
(05:54):
Part of it is not Helpingclients do a better job of
understanding, tracking andseeing what's working and what's
not working.
Clients are so busy today thatthey are not focused on Tracking
what works and what doesn'twork right, and if you're not
(06:19):
working with them and Helpingthem do that giving them a
system, providing information,providing data, being part of
their team to educate Everyonewithin the organization of what
they're doing, what adds they'rerunning, what specials they're
offering there's just not a lotof information and people are
(06:40):
too busy to necessarily askeveryone.
They're too busy to check tosee what they came in on an ad
or if they mentioned somethingspecific, and so there's
probably a lot of People thatare coming in buying products
and services because of anadvertisement they saw or they
heard, or an email that they got, or a display ad that triggered
(07:00):
them, and so, but they're notgetting credit for it, and so
part of that is our fault fornot helping the client and
Getting better at making surethey understand what's working
and what's not working, andmaking sure we're educating
everyone and being Involved withthem, being a partner with them
.
I think the other part of it isthat they're so busy that they
(07:22):
don't even know how to do it,and they're so busy they're not
even noticing it.
And also, let's be honest, thereare so many more ads that we
come into on a regular basisthan ever before.
I mean, I know that when Istarted Back in, you know, 1872,
(07:42):
they said that there were 3000ads a day.
Remember as well as you saw3000 ads a day.
What is it today?
30,000 is it?
I mean, it could be 30,000.
It literally could be 30,000ads.
Which one am I gonna notice?
Which one am I gonna respond to?
(08:02):
Right, and so I think you'reseeing that that deluded Number
of ads results are coming areharder than they've ever been
before.
Matt Sunshine (08:13):
Yeah, and and getting renewals is is oh so
important, right?
I mean that's name the game.
You know it's a lot easier tofill the bucket when it's not,
when it's not leaking from thebottom.
Trey Morris (08:28):
Yeah so.
So if you're not, if they'renot getting good results, you're
not gonna get renewals, right,is you come back in there and go
, hey, you ready to renew?
And they're like I didn't work.
Right well, if this is the firsttime that you're finding out
that something's not working andit's time for a renewal, you're
dead.
You're dead, there's.
(08:48):
There's no way you are gonnasave that.
So Part of that problem of usnot communicating is also not
staying in touch with knowingwhat's working and what's not
working.
And so if things aren't goinglike you want them to go, I
wanna know in week one, not week12 or 26 or 52.
(09:11):
Because in week one or two, Ican help them fix that.
Maybe it's a copy issue.
Maybe it's a creative issue.
Maybe it's what we're runningthe campaign that we're doing.
Maybe it's that we're just nottracking it right and so
nobody's gonna renew if you'renot getting results.
It's all about ROI.
Matt Sunshine (09:29):
And if dollars are less.
Trey Morris (09:32):
I'm not gonna renew the things that aren't working.
Matt Sunshine (09:34):
It's interesting.
Just going back to what yousaid before, it kind of ties
together If, whether you claimto be a product salesperson or
not because nobody claims to bea product salesperson nobody.
Everyone says they're customerfocused.
But you show what you are byyour actions, right by behavior.
(09:56):
So if you claim to be asolutions focused seller, then
what you care about is makingsure that your customer gets
results.
It gets the solution.
So if to you, the service stopswith the sale because you need
(10:18):
to move on to get the next one,you're truly you're focused on
selling the product and thenselling the product again and
selling the product again.
You're focused on the solution.
Well, the selling, the sale isyou're at the 10 yard line.
You've still got 90 yards to goright, you're just getting
(10:41):
started.
So they really do tie togethernicely.
From what you said in yourresponse to getting pro, it's
all about being solving theproblem, not just selling.
Yeah, 100%, all right.
So first question teach you upon salespeople getting new
(11:06):
business.
Second question was reallyabout salespeople getting
renewal business.
This next question has to dowith something that I know is
near and dear to our heartsgetting appointments and let's
just throw it.
It's never been easy.
It's not like it used to be soeasy, but maybe it used to be
(11:29):
easy, or but it was never easy.
So here's what the data saysand I'll ask you a question.
Over half of the salespeoplesurvey 57% say it takes five or
more attempts to secure a salesappointment.
Five or more, I think we agreewith that.
87% of salespeople say thatsecuring appointments is harder
(11:55):
today than it was five years ago.
So again, it takes it.
57% say it takes five or moreattempts.
Almost 90% 87% to be exact sayit's harder than it was five
years ago.
Here are my questions for youwhy are sales appointments
becoming harder?
And you got any tips?
What do salespeople do?
Trey Morris (12:16):
Yeah, I kind of answered that in your first
question, because gettingappointments leads to
conversions, right, they're tiedtogether.
Part of it is we just have alot of technology that it's easy
to ignore people.
They're not in the office andthere are so many salespeople
that are reaching out todecision makers on a regular
(12:39):
basis, and not just media andadvertising sales.
I mean every vendor is gonnahave what 10, 20 different
companies that are all pitchingfor that same business.
I mean a business owner couldhave a hundred different people
reach out to him on any givenday.
One you get a meeting with them.
(12:59):
You can't meet with a hundredpeople.
You don't meet.
You're not gonna meet with twopeople, right.
So that's what makes it so muchharder today than ever before.
And it's good that 57% ofpeople know.
Hey, I've gotta be persistent,I've gotta keep reaching out,
because that is part of thesolution of getting more
(13:23):
meetings is having moreoutreaches.
So they need to reach out to aprospect.
We say seven to nine times I'vejust simplified it and said
nine times.
Now it's nine times You've gota plan In two weeks?
Yeah, in two weeks, exactly.
It's not over a year, it's twoweeks.
Reach out nine times in twoweeks that's a lot.
(13:44):
That's almost every single day.
Right, but you have to have areally good reason for them to
meet with you, right, and wecall it the valid business
reason.
It's why would they want tomeet with me?
What do I have to offer thathas value?
That's gonna help them.
Whether it's gonna be solve aproblem, achieve a goal, meet a
(14:08):
need, whatever that is, you haveto have a really good hook as
to why they would want to meetwith you.
And then you've gotta hammer itnine times in two weeks to get
their attention before theyrespond.
So that's the foundationalelement of getting more meetings
(14:29):
.
What are the tips to make itmore successful, for you to be
better at it?
My thing is you've got to bedifferent.
You have got to stand out fromthe crowd.
You've got to break through theclutter.
I know you get tons of peopletrying to sell you stuff,
(14:50):
because I get tons of peoplethat are trying to sell me stuff
because my title makes it seemlike I might buy something.
I don't buy anything at CSS.
I have no authority whatsoever.
It's the biggest waste of timein the world to email me.
If you're thinking about emailme, don't If you're trying to
sell me something.
So I know I get tons of themand they're all the same.
(15:12):
They're so boring, they're sosimple.
All I see is emails.
Nobody is sending videos, noone is calling me.
Obviously you can't knock on mydoor, but if I was a business
owner and I had a storefront boy, I would, old school, go door
to door and try and meet withpeople face to face.
(15:33):
I would use the phone more thanI would use email.
I would send letters.
I would send something unique.
I would.
You just have to be creative tobreak through the clutter,
because there are literallythousands of salespeople doing
the exact same thing.
They're super boring and it'sso easy to delete email after
(15:54):
email after email and neverrespond.
Matt Sunshine (15:57):
Yeah, so I'm gonna circle back to this whole
conversation on different waysof communicating in one second,
but I wanna go back to somethingthat you were talking about,
the don't give up strategy, andthere's that old quote in like
(16:18):
when luck is when preparationmeets opportunity right, luck is
when preparation meetsopportunity.
So appointments are whenpersistence meets
professionalism right.
When it's not enough just to bereally professional and have a
VBR.
It's not.
I mean, you could have the best, most well-written, most
(16:41):
researched email, talk track,whatever, but if you reach out
to someone and your email getsput in the junk folder for some
reason, or bounces, or theperson is off that day and comes
back to 350 emails and deletesall of them, you're well-written
(17:01):
, well-researched email nevergot seen.
On the flip side, though, if allyou are is persistent and
you're not professional, you'regonna look foolish and you're
gonna get a please do not.
You're gonna get an unsubscribeback and say leave me alone, I
don't want your spam.
So I like what you're sayingand I agree, and I think the
(17:24):
biggest thing that I've heardyou say not here today, but just
again and again and again whatI've been with you over the
years is the biggest thing youcan do is commit to doing it
right Knowing what to do anddoing what you need to do
sometimes is where the chasm is.
If you know you need to havereally good VBRs and you know
(17:47):
you need to reach out nine timesin two weeks, then do that.
Trey Morris (17:53):
And yeah, I hear that all the time when I'm in
markets with clients and I'll gothrough the don't give up plan
and we'll talk about VBRs andthe sales people that are honest
, come up and go.
I don't do this all the time.
I need to do this all the time.
If I did this all the time, Iwould have as many meetings as I
(18:14):
wanted.
Matt Sunshine (18:15):
Right.
I mean, the challenge is thiswe all have our stories of well,
I only called this guy one timeand I got the greatest
appointment in the world.
I didn't have to call nine.
But, by the way, great Highfive congrats.
That's awesome.
You don't have to.
By the way, if you get anappointment on the first call,
you do not have to keep doingthe other one.
(18:36):
You do not.
No, you can stop that, allright.
Last question for you.
So a big part of all of this iscommunicating with prospects.
You touched on it in youranswer to your last question.
How we choose to communicatewith them is kind of what
differentiates us.
(18:57):
Most salespeople 72% rely onemail and 55% rely on phone.
In your opinion, do the legacychannels like email and phone
calls, do they still prevail?
In other words, are they stillthe best to use, or are there
newer channels and kind of hiton them?
(19:18):
So maybe touch on those again.
And are there any communicationtactics that you would
recommend and maybe you can talkabout when you run your don't
give ups strategies?
Maybe you can talk about whatyour last outreach is sometimes
(19:40):
like.
Trey Morris (19:41):
Yeah, so I did talk about it.
I think that email is lesseffective today than it's ever
been.
I still see salespeople usingit more than anything else.
I think that's a mistake.
Phone, for the longest time,wasn't effective at all.
I think since 2020, phone callshave become way more successful
(20:06):
.
I think people are more willingto talk to someone on the phone
today because they may not bein the office and maybe they
aren't talking to people, so Ithink phone has probably
exceeded email.
I'm hearing a lot of successfrom salespeople who will go in
canvas, a neighborhood, likethey find a group of three, four
(20:28):
, five businesses all relativelyclose to each other and they
literally and this is crazy someof these people are not gonna
believe this it's true they walkinto a business and they speak
to a human being in person.
I know crazy, right, but itworks.
Like people are excited youwalked in and they're more
(20:51):
willing to help you and oh, I'mnot the person, but this is the
person to call and this is hiscard, and that seems to work
really well.
I think video is another reallygood way of using ways to
communicate, especially ifyou're more outgoing, and all of
video is a video of a voicemail.
That's it.
(21:12):
That's all it is.
I mean, I don't understand whypeople get nervous, but they get
nervous.
But we are on video calls everysingle day of the week.
What's it matter?
If it's being recorded, it'sthe same thing, right?
Just do that.
I think leaving things behind,mailing things are different.
(21:32):
I mean mailing someone a card.
Nobody mails anything.
So if I got something in themail that would stand out right,
I'd be interested to read that,especially if it's handwritten.
I'm gonna open that.
I wanna see who wrote me aletter or wrote me a note.
I think that's really importantand I think those are the
(21:54):
things that I would do.
Matt Sunshine (21:56):
Tell everyone about your outreach.
When you run a, don't give upplan for yourself, for when
you're in sales mode, I'm givingup.
Trey Morris (22:08):
Yeah, it's the one, two, three email and I think I
stole it from you but I takefull ownership of it.
Matt Sunshine (22:16):
Yeah, you say it's yours now.
Trey Morris (22:19):
Yeah, so it's.
The title of the email isplease respond with a one, two
or three.
Dot dot dot.
By the way, I tested that onsubjectlinecom and it scored 100
, so yay me and it's dear Matt,I've been trying to get in touch
with you for the last couple ofweeks.
We haven't been able to connect.
(22:41):
Before I give up, I wanted togive you one last chance to make
sure that we didn't miss anopportunity.
So do me a favor and reply witha one, a two or a three to this
email.
Number one yes, I'm interested,I've just been really busy.
Send me some times you'reavailable and we'll schedule
something.
Number two no, I'm sure you'rea great guy, but I'm not
(23:03):
interested.
Please leave me alone.
Or number three I've fallen andI can't get up.
Please call for help.
And then I say let me knowwhich one it is, because I'm
starting to worry.
Thanks, trey.
And I would say that I probablyget 70 or 80% of the time will
(23:24):
get a response, and half thetime I get yeses and half the
time I get no's, or ones andtwos, and then occasionally
people will be funny and they'llput down a number three, and
then one time someone put downnumber four.
And then they said for me to dosomething to myself, which is
not appropriate for this kind ofcontent.
(23:44):
And if I get a two, a three ora four, I reply thanks for
letting me know.
You'll never hear from me again.
And what's funny is if thethree and the fours every time
they've replied.
Oh, I was just kidding, Ithought you would think this was
funny.
I actually am interested andI'll end up getting meetings.
Matt Sunshine (24:07):
Yeah, and then for anyone listening or watching
this podcast, if you don't knowwhat I fall in and can't get up
, is you just should Google Ifall in, get it up and you'll
see that that was a very cleveradvertising campaign Way back
when you.
Trey Morris (24:25):
You're making me feel really old.
May you go really old.
There are people watching thisall right.
Matt Sunshine (24:32):
So, trey, thank you so much.
Your, your insight and yourexpertise on these Specific
topics is is incredibly valuable.
There is there's so much.
You've unpacked and shared somuch wisdom Today that if
(25:00):
someone just would, would simplydo what you tell them to do, if
they would just simply take theadvice and give it a try, I
absolutely know that they wouldget results.
So, thank you, thank you, thankyou for joining us, sharing
your wisdom with everyone thatis watching or listening.
If you want to get ahold of Trey, his information will be in the
(25:23):
show notes or you can go toLinkedIn and look up Trey Morris
at the Center for SalesStrategy.
It'll come up first and becausehe's very active on social
media and we look forward toseeing all of you on the next
episode of the improving salesperformance.
This has been improving salesperformance.
(25:47):
Thanks for listening.
If you like what you heard,join us every week by clicking
the subscribe button For more onthe topics covered in the show.
Visit our website, the Centerfor Sales Strategycom.
There you can find helpfulresources and content aimed at
improving your sales performance.
Welcome to Improving Sales Performance, a
podcast highlighting tips andinsights aimed at helping sales
organizations realize, and maybeeven exceed, their goals.
Here we chat with thoughtleaders, experts and gurus who
have years of sales experiencefrom a wide range of industries.
I'm your host, matt Sunshine,ceo at the Center for Sales
Strategy, a sales performanceconsulting company.
(00:37):
In this episode we'recontinuing our season-long deep
dive into the latest media salesreport from the Center for
Sales Strategy, and today TreyMorris, vp Senior Consultant
here at CSS, is joining me tohelp answer the question why is
(00:58):
it getting harder to convertprospects and renew clients?
Trey brings so many greatpoints to the table, such as how
too many salespeople arepitching products instead of
solutions, why sellers need todo a better job of helping
existing clients figure outwhat's working and what's not
working early on in theirbusiness relationship and,
(01:20):
finally, why is it so importantfor every seller to give the
best reason possible forprospects to want to meet with
them.
With that, let's get theconversation going.
So, trey, in the just recentlypublished fifth annual, can you
(01:44):
believe it's already been thefifth annual?
It's hard to believe.
That's very cool the fifthannual media sales report.
I found this interesting.
I thought we'd kick it off withthis 57% of salespeople tell us
that converting prospects isbecoming more difficult.
Not that we're shocked by that,but that is what the data shows
(02:09):
57% of salespeople tell usconverting prospects has become
more difficult.
So here are my questions.
It's kind of a two-partquestion what are you hearing
firsthand?
What are you hearing and why doyou think this is the case?
And then the second one is whatadvice do you have for
(02:29):
salespeople that are frustratedby this?
What advice do you?
Trey Morris (02:35):
have.
So what I'm hearing and I'msurprised that it's only 57%
Based on anecdotal data of justpeople I talked to, it would be
108% of people think it's hardertoday.
That's all I hear In everyclient that we work with.
(02:56):
It's how do we get moremeetings?
How do we get more meetings?
How do we convert a prospectinto a client?
And the reality is it is harder.
All of this really cooltechnology has made it super
easy for us to ignore people,and so that's what's happened.
I mean especially with workingremote.
(03:18):
So many of the people thatwe're trying to get in front of,
they're not in the office,they're not in the store,
they're somewhere else, and sogetting a hold of them is tough.
Also, you're seeing a lot ofproblems with people that are
kind of putting their toes inthe water.
(03:38):
If they do get a meeting andthere is a presentation, they're
not really that serious aboutit because they just don't know
about visibility.
No one knows what the economy isgoing to be like in two months,
six months, a year, tomorrow ina lot of cases.
(04:00):
So people are nervous.
Cash flow is an issue.
We get mixed signals on theeconomy, so there's a lot of
reasons that people aren'tmoving forward, but I think the
biggest reason is that so manysalespeople are still relying on
pitching product and they'renot providing solutions, they're
(04:20):
not demonstrating how they aregoing to add value and they're
going to be able to solve thatprospect's problems or help them
achieve a goal.
And so the reality is is thatif you're just pitching product
and they're already nervousabout the economy and they don't
really want to spend the moneyand they don't necessarily
believe what you're talkingabout is going to help them,
(04:44):
they're not going to make adecision, they're not going to
say yes, they're not going toconvert and become a customer,
and that's just the reality ofSales, no matter what you're
selling.
Yeah, folks, on what?
Matt Sunshine (04:55):
you saw not what you sell?
Yeah, all right.
So sales people are alsoReporting, based on our survey,
that it's more difficult when itcomes to renewing clients.
It's hard enough to get to geta client.
It's becoming more challengingnow to renew.
Actually, 42% Say that renewalsare getting tougher than before
(05:19):
.
So why, what contributingfactors are making are causing
this and what advice do you have?
What can sellers do to setthemselves up for success To
renew their clients?
Trey Morris (05:34):
Yeah, this is something that I am seeing more
of today than, honestly, I thinkI've ever seen before, and so I
think that a lot of it is thatPart of it is on the sales
person's Issue not doing whatthey should be doing.
(05:54):
Part of it is not Helpingclients do a better job of
understanding, tracking andseeing what's working and what's
not working.
Clients are so busy today thatthey are not focused on Tracking
what works and what doesn'twork right, and if you're not
(06:19):
working with them and Helpingthem do that giving them a
system, providing information,providing data, being part of
their team to educate Everyonewithin the organization of what
they're doing, what adds they'rerunning, what specials they're
offering there's just not a lotof information and people are
(06:40):
too busy to necessarily askeveryone.
They're too busy to check tosee what they came in on an ad
or if they mentioned somethingspecific, and so there's
probably a lot of People thatare coming in buying products
and services because of anadvertisement they saw or they
heard, or an email that they got, or a display ad that triggered
(07:00):
them, and so, but they're notgetting credit for it, and so
part of that is our fault fornot helping the client and
Getting better at making surethey understand what's working
and what's not working, andmaking sure we're educating
everyone and being Involved withthem, being a partner with them
.
I think the other part of it isthat they're so busy that they
(07:22):
don't even know how to do it,and they're so busy they're not
even noticing it.
And also, let's be honest, thereare so many more ads that we
come into on a regular basisthan ever before.
I mean, I know that when Istarted Back in, you know, 1872,
(07:42):
they said that there were 3000ads a day.
Remember as well as you saw3000 ads a day.
What is it today?
30,000 is it?
I mean, it could be 30,000.
It literally could be 30,000ads.
Which one am I gonna notice?
Which one am I gonna respond to?
(08:02):
Right, and so I think you'reseeing that that deluded Number
of ads results are coming areharder than they've ever been
before.
Matt Sunshine (08:13):
Yeah, and and getting renewals is is oh so
important, right?
I mean that's name the game.
You know it's a lot easier tofill the bucket when it's not,
when it's not leaking from thebottom.
Trey Morris (08:28):
Yeah so.
So if you're not, if they'renot getting good results, you're
not gonna get renewals, right,is you come back in there and go
, hey, you ready to renew?
And they're like I didn't work.
Right well, if this is the firsttime that you're finding out
that something's not working andit's time for a renewal, you're
dead.
You're dead, there's.
(08:48):
There's no way you are gonnasave that.
So Part of that problem of usnot communicating is also not
staying in touch with knowingwhat's working and what's not
working.
And so if things aren't goinglike you want them to go, I
wanna know in week one, not week12 or 26 or 52.
(09:11):
Because in week one or two, Ican help them fix that.
Maybe it's a copy issue.
Maybe it's a creative issue.
Maybe it's what we're runningthe campaign that we're doing.
Maybe it's that we're just nottracking it right and so
nobody's gonna renew if you'renot getting results.
It's all about ROI.
Matt Sunshine (09:29):
And if dollars are less.
Trey Morris (09:32):
I'm not gonna renew the things that aren't working.
Matt Sunshine (09:34):
It's interesting.
Just going back to what yousaid before, it kind of ties
together If, whether you claimto be a product salesperson or
not because nobody claims to bea product salesperson nobody.
Everyone says they're customerfocused.
But you show what you are byyour actions, right by behavior.
(09:56):
So if you claim to be asolutions focused seller, then
what you care about is makingsure that your customer gets
results.
It gets the solution.
So if to you, the service stopswith the sale because you need
(10:18):
to move on to get the next one,you're truly you're focused on
selling the product and thenselling the product again and
selling the product again.
You're focused on the solution.
Well, the selling, the sale isyou're at the 10 yard line.
You've still got 90 yards to goright, you're just getting
(10:41):
started.
So they really do tie togethernicely.
From what you said in yourresponse to getting pro, it's
all about being solving theproblem, not just selling.
Yeah, 100%, all right.
So first question teach you upon salespeople getting new
(11:06):
business.
Second question was reallyabout salespeople getting
renewal business.
This next question has to dowith something that I know is
near and dear to our heartsgetting appointments and let's
just throw it.
It's never been easy.
It's not like it used to be soeasy, but maybe it used to be
(11:29):
easy, or but it was never easy.
So here's what the data saysand I'll ask you a question.
Over half of the salespeoplesurvey 57% say it takes five or
more attempts to secure a salesappointment.
Five or more, I think we agreewith that.
87% of salespeople say thatsecuring appointments is harder
(11:55):
today than it was five years ago.
So again, it takes it.
57% say it takes five or moreattempts.
Almost 90% 87% to be exact sayit's harder than it was five
years ago.
Here are my questions for youwhy are sales appointments
becoming harder?
And you got any tips?
What do salespeople do?
Trey Morris (12:16):
Yeah, I kind of answered that in your first
question, because gettingappointments leads to
conversions, right, they're tiedtogether.
Part of it is we just have alot of technology that it's easy
to ignore people.
They're not in the office andthere are so many salespeople
that are reaching out todecision makers on a regular
(12:39):
basis, and not just media andadvertising sales.
I mean every vendor is gonnahave what 10, 20 different
companies that are all pitchingfor that same business.
I mean a business owner couldhave a hundred different people
reach out to him on any givenday.
One you get a meeting with them.
(12:59):
You can't meet with a hundredpeople.
You don't meet.
You're not gonna meet with twopeople, right.
So that's what makes it so muchharder today than ever before.
And it's good that 57% ofpeople know.
Hey, I've gotta be persistent,I've gotta keep reaching out,
because that is part of thesolution of getting more
(13:23):
meetings is having moreoutreaches.
So they need to reach out to aprospect.
We say seven to nine times I'vejust simplified it and said
nine times.
Now it's nine times You've gota plan In two weeks?
Yeah, in two weeks, exactly.
It's not over a year, it's twoweeks.
Reach out nine times in twoweeks that's a lot.
(13:44):
That's almost every single day.
Right, but you have to have areally good reason for them to
meet with you, right, and wecall it the valid business
reason.
It's why would they want tomeet with me?
What do I have to offer thathas value?
That's gonna help them.
Whether it's gonna be solve aproblem, achieve a goal, meet a
(14:08):
need, whatever that is, you haveto have a really good hook as
to why they would want to meetwith you.
And then you've gotta hammer itnine times in two weeks to get
their attention before theyrespond.
So that's the foundationalelement of getting more meetings
(14:29):
.
What are the tips to make itmore successful, for you to be
better at it?
My thing is you've got to bedifferent.
You have got to stand out fromthe crowd.
You've got to break through theclutter.
I know you get tons of peopletrying to sell you stuff,
(14:50):
because I get tons of peoplethat are trying to sell me stuff
because my title makes it seemlike I might buy something.
I don't buy anything at CSS.
I have no authority whatsoever.
It's the biggest waste of timein the world to email me.
If you're thinking about emailme, don't If you're trying to
sell me something.
So I know I get tons of themand they're all the same.
(15:12):
They're so boring, they're sosimple.
All I see is emails.
Nobody is sending videos, noone is calling me.
Obviously you can't knock on mydoor, but if I was a business
owner and I had a storefront boy, I would, old school, go door
to door and try and meet withpeople face to face.
(15:33):
I would use the phone more thanI would use email.
I would send letters.
I would send something unique.
I would.
You just have to be creative tobreak through the clutter,
because there are literallythousands of salespeople doing
the exact same thing.
They're super boring and it'sso easy to delete email after
(15:54):
email after email and neverrespond.
Matt Sunshine (15:57):
Yeah, so I'm gonna circle back to this whole
conversation on different waysof communicating in one second,
but I wanna go back to somethingthat you were talking about,
the don't give up strategy, andthere's that old quote in like
(16:18):
when luck is when preparationmeets opportunity right, luck is
when preparation meetsopportunity.
So appointments are whenpersistence meets
professionalism right.
When it's not enough just to bereally professional and have a
VBR.
It's not.
I mean, you could have the best, most well-written, most
(16:41):
researched email, talk track,whatever, but if you reach out
to someone and your email getsput in the junk folder for some
reason, or bounces, or theperson is off that day and comes
back to 350 emails and deletesall of them, you're well-written
(17:01):
, well-researched email nevergot seen.
On the flip side, though, if allyou are is persistent and
you're not professional, you'regonna look foolish and you're
gonna get a please do not.
You're gonna get an unsubscribeback and say leave me alone, I
don't want your spam.
So I like what you're sayingand I agree, and I think the
(17:24):
biggest thing that I've heardyou say not here today, but just
again and again and again whatI've been with you over the
years is the biggest thing youcan do is commit to doing it
right Knowing what to do anddoing what you need to do
sometimes is where the chasm is.
If you know you need to havereally good VBRs and you know
(17:47):
you need to reach out nine timesin two weeks, then do that.
Trey Morris (17:53):
And yeah, I hear that all the time when I'm in
markets with clients and I'll gothrough the don't give up plan
and we'll talk about VBRs andthe sales people that are honest
, come up and go.
I don't do this all the time.
I need to do this all the time.
If I did this all the time, Iwould have as many meetings as I
(18:14):
wanted.
Matt Sunshine (18:15):
Right.
I mean, the challenge is thiswe all have our stories of well,
I only called this guy one timeand I got the greatest
appointment in the world.
I didn't have to call nine.
But, by the way, great Highfive congrats.
That's awesome.
You don't have to.
By the way, if you get anappointment on the first call,
you do not have to keep doingthe other one.
(18:36):
You do not.
No, you can stop that, allright.
Last question for you.
So a big part of all of this iscommunicating with prospects.
You touched on it in youranswer to your last question.
How we choose to communicatewith them is kind of what
differentiates us.
(18:57):
Most salespeople 72% rely onemail and 55% rely on phone.
In your opinion, do the legacychannels like email and phone
calls, do they still prevail?
In other words, are they stillthe best to use, or are there
newer channels and kind of hiton them?
(19:18):
So maybe touch on those again.
And are there any communicationtactics that you would
recommend and maybe you can talkabout when you run your don't
give ups strategies?
Maybe you can talk about whatyour last outreach is sometimes
(19:40):
like.
Trey Morris (19:41):
Yeah, so I did talk about it.
I think that email is lesseffective today than it's ever
been.
I still see salespeople usingit more than anything else.
I think that's a mistake.
Phone, for the longest time,wasn't effective at all.
I think since 2020, phone callshave become way more successful
(20:06):
.
I think people are more willingto talk to someone on the phone
today because they may not bein the office and maybe they
aren't talking to people, so Ithink phone has probably
exceeded email.
I'm hearing a lot of successfrom salespeople who will go in
canvas, a neighborhood, likethey find a group of three, four
(20:28):
, five businesses all relativelyclose to each other and they
literally and this is crazy someof these people are not gonna
believe this it's true they walkinto a business and they speak
to a human being in person.
I know crazy, right, but itworks.
Like people are excited youwalked in and they're more
(20:51):
willing to help you and oh, I'mnot the person, but this is the
person to call and this is hiscard, and that seems to work
really well.
I think video is another reallygood way of using ways to
communicate, especially ifyou're more outgoing, and all of
video is a video of a voicemail.
That's it.
(21:12):
That's all it is.
I mean, I don't understand whypeople get nervous, but they get
nervous.
But we are on video calls everysingle day of the week.
What's it matter?
If it's being recorded, it'sthe same thing, right?
Just do that.
I think leaving things behind,mailing things are different.
(21:32):
I mean mailing someone a card.
Nobody mails anything.
So if I got something in themail that would stand out right,
I'd be interested to read that,especially if it's handwritten.
I'm gonna open that.
I wanna see who wrote me aletter or wrote me a note.
I think that's really importantand I think those are the
(21:54):
things that I would do.
Matt Sunshine (21:56):
Tell everyone about your outreach.
When you run a, don't give upplan for yourself, for when
you're in sales mode, I'm givingup.
Trey Morris (22:08):
Yeah, it's the one, two, three email and I think I
stole it from you but I takefull ownership of it.
Matt Sunshine (22:16):
Yeah, you say it's yours now.
Trey Morris (22:19):
Yeah, so it's.
The title of the email isplease respond with a one, two
or three.
Dot dot dot.
By the way, I tested that onsubjectlinecom and it scored 100
, so yay me and it's dear Matt,I've been trying to get in touch
with you for the last couple ofweeks.
We haven't been able to connect.
(22:41):
Before I give up, I wanted togive you one last chance to make
sure that we didn't miss anopportunity.
So do me a favor and reply witha one, a two or a three to this
email.
Number one yes, I'm interested,I've just been really busy.
Send me some times you'reavailable and we'll schedule
something.
Number two no, I'm sure you'rea great guy, but I'm not
(23:03):
interested.
Please leave me alone.
Or number three I've fallen andI can't get up.
Please call for help.
And then I say let me knowwhich one it is, because I'm
starting to worry.
Thanks, trey.
And I would say that I probablyget 70 or 80% of the time will
(23:24):
get a response, and half thetime I get yeses and half the
time I get no's, or ones andtwos, and then occasionally
people will be funny and they'llput down a number three, and
then one time someone put downnumber four.
And then they said for me to dosomething to myself, which is
not appropriate for this kind ofcontent.
(23:44):
And if I get a two, a three ora four, I reply thanks for
letting me know.
You'll never hear from me again.
And what's funny is if thethree and the fours every time
they've replied.
Oh, I was just kidding, Ithought you would think this was
funny.
I actually am interested andI'll end up getting meetings.
Matt Sunshine (24:07):
Yeah, and then for anyone listening or watching
this podcast, if you don't knowwhat I fall in and can't get up
, is you just should Google Ifall in, get it up and you'll
see that that was a very cleveradvertising campaign Way back
when you.
Trey Morris (24:25):
You're making me feel really old.
May you go really old.
There are people watching thisall right.
Matt Sunshine (24:32):
So, trey, thank you so much.
Your, your insight and yourexpertise on these Specific
topics is is incredibly valuable.
There is there's so much.
You've unpacked and shared somuch wisdom Today that if
(25:00):
someone just would, would simplydo what you tell them to do, if
they would just simply take theadvice and give it a try, I
absolutely know that they wouldget results.
So, thank you, thank you, thankyou for joining us, sharing
your wisdom with everyone thatis watching or listening.
If you want to get ahold of Trey, his information will be in the
(25:23):
show notes or you can go toLinkedIn and look up Trey Morris
at the Center for SalesStrategy.
It'll come up first and becausehe's very active on social
media and we look forward toseeing all of you on the next
episode of the improving salesperformance.
This has been improving salesperformance.
(25:47):
Thanks for listening.
If you like what you heard,join us every week by clicking
the subscribe button For more onthe topics covered in the show.
Visit our website, the Centerfor Sales Strategycom.
There you can find helpfulresources and content aimed at
improving your sales performance.
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