October 10, 2023 • 22 mins
We’re so proud to be celebrating Women in Sales Month once again.
For each week in October, we have an amazing slate of women sales leaders who will be sharing their unique insights.
From offering advice for sales managers new and more experienced to surveying the anticipated landscape of sales in the years ahead, when it comes to Improving Sales Performance, these ladies know how it's done.
Today, we are joined by Giovanna Savorgnan, Director of Sales at WFAA.
Gio shares so many amazing observations, such as:
- Why it’s important for everyone, from the top down, to fully believe in the mission of the organization.
- How the best managers are as good at coaching as they are teaching.
- And, lastly, why really great sales leaders have to lean into the unknown.
LINKS:
Giovanna Savorgnan
Stephanie Downs
Matt Sunshine
The Center for Sales Strategy
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt Sunshine (00:15):
Welcome to Improving Sales Performance, a
podcast highlighting tips andinsights aimed at helping sales
organizations realize, and maybeeven exceed, their goals.
Here we chat with thoughtleaders, experts and gurus who
have years of sales experiencefrom a wide range of industries.
I'm your host, matt Sunshine,ceo at the Center for Sales
Strategy, a sales performanceconsulting company.
Stephanie Downs (00:43):
We're so proud to be celebrating Women in Sales
Month once again.
For each week in October, wehave an amazing slate of women
sales leaders who will besharing their unique insights
From offering advice for salesmanagers, new and more
experience, to surveying theanticipated landscape of sales
in the years ahead.
When it comes to improvingsales performance, these ladies
(01:06):
know how it's done.
I'm Stephanie Downs, seniorVice President and Senior
Consultant at the Center forSales Strategy.
I'll be joining Matt Sunshineon the show for the entire month
of October.
Today, we are joined by GioSavorgnan, director of Sales at
WFAA.
Gio shares so many amazingobservations, such as why it's
(01:29):
important for everyone, from thetop down, to fully believe in
the mission of the organization,how the best managers are as
good at coaching as they areteaching and, lastly, by really
great sales leaders have to leaninto the unknown.
Matt Sunshine (01:52):
All right, Gio, thank you for being here.
This is going to be a greatconversation.
We've known each other a longtime and these questions are
right in your wheelhouse, and soI'm excited, excited for us to
dive in.
So, with that, from your pointof view, what are the things
that you look at in a salesdepartment that lets you know
(02:16):
that things are on track?
In other words, or said anotherway, are there some KPIs, some
key performance indicators maybethree, four, five that you tend
to really zero in on to helpyou drive performance?
Giovanna Savorgnan (02:34):
Sure, first, thanks for having me here today
.
I think that what I look at formy team is, first and foremost,
do I have alignment?
And that starts with themanagement team.
Everyone needs to believe inthe mission and believe in what
we're doing.
We don't need robots, buteveryone needs to understand
(02:54):
what we're trying to accomplish.
So it starts there and thenfunnels down to everybody else
in the department, from sellersto account managers, you name it
.
They all need to understand andbe aligned as well, because if
we have fractures in the system,it will get in the way of us
succeeding.
(03:14):
It'll certainly slow thingsdown.
I think the second thing isclearly defined strategy and
what we're trying to accomplish.
So it's one thing to tell themAEs I'm using them as an example
but it's one of the things totell them that this is our
strategy, so let's go do it.
(03:35):
And it's another thing to saythis is our strategy.
This is why we built thestrategy the way we want it.
And then these are the tacticalsteps that we can take to get
there.
Does everybody agree?
And so if you can get those twothings, then you're really
going in the right direction.
And the last thing is APIsmeasurement.
Are we doing the number ofactivities we need to be doing?
(03:58):
Are we hitting our revenuegoals?
If we aren't, what's holding usback?
So to me, those are like thethree big ones.
Matt Sunshine (04:08):
Yeah, diving just in on that a second, is there a
particular hack that you use todetermine or to know if there
is alignment?
Is there a specific activitymetric that you look at?
I know you look at all of them,but is there one that you kind
(04:29):
of lean on a little bit more?
Just your comments on that.
Giovanna Savorgnan (04:34):
So I think that people I don't care what
you do everybody has so muchcoming at them and so repetition
is a big piece of it.
We try to do that throughvisuals throughout the
department, through our salesmeetings.
We try to anytime we seesuccess associated with our
(04:58):
strategic plan, we are going tocelebrate that.
And it's not a sale, necessarilyit can be, but it can be
anything in the department thatreflects what we're trying to
accomplish.
So I think it goes back to justconstantly reminding people and
then you know, and when you seesomething that's not what you
want, addressing it immediatelyand trying to figure out what's
(05:19):
at the root.
So to me it's just keeping theyou know, watching your
guardrails and making sure thatyou're always staying in your
lane.
Stephanie Downs (05:27):
Yeah, so you're already starting to touch on
some of this, especiallythinking about alignment across
the organization and mission andvision, or you know, kind of
the value of the organizationand getting everybody aligned on
that.
What should salespeople, salesmanagers, really be focused on?
Think about it in terms of bigrocks or the highest priorities.
(05:51):
Where should they really bepaying attention?
Giovanna Savorgnan (05:55):
There's a whole bunch of them.
I really think that the salesmanagers, particularly local
sales managers, have one of thehardest jobs in the building.
They're managing up, they'remanaging down and they're
managing across, so and thenthey've got clients, of course,
and all the problems.
That not necessarily problemssome good or bad, but you know,
a lot of times they're dealingwith things that they need to
fix.
(06:15):
So you know, I think I, youknow, the successful sales
manager is really good atproblem solving.
They're also good teachers andmotivators.
You know, we often say that youshouldn't have to motivate
people, that they should have itwithin themselves.
But everybody has a bad day.
Everybody has a bad day, so youdo have to be there to help them
(06:37):
through.
I also think that the job ofthe sellers has become much more
complicated and there has to beempathy number one, because a
lot of people have been herewhen we sell one product and now
we're selling a whole bunchmore, and so you need to have
empathy with your sellers but atthe same time, push and push,
because their future isdependent on change.
(06:59):
They have to if they want to besuccessful.
So a manager has to be able toconvey that and also know.
You know it's one thing to beempathetic, but it's another
thing to, you know, hold peopleup and let's go, let's push that
big rock together, yeah, yeah.
And then I think the other oneis just learning.
You know, I think a salesmanager has to be a coach and a
(07:23):
teacher, and the teaching partthey need to know just as good
as the AEs or all thosecredibility, really quick, yeah.
Stephanie Downs (07:34):
So you already you said the sales people that
their job has really changedbecause of the complexity of the
job and the number of products.
Well, sales managers jobs havealso changed a lot over the last
you know, pick a year, threeyears, four years, five years.
It's really changed, right?
Give us some comparison of whatit was like to be a sales
(07:55):
leader in an organization fouror five years ago compared to
what it's like now.
Giovanna Savorgnan (08:01):
Well, the big is that.
You know they have those COVIDobviously, but COVID really did
was accelerate the change.
The change was already coming,yeah.
So I think that, as leaders andas sellers, you know you can't.
You can't just stick your headin the sand and hope that it'll
all go away.
It's not going away.
So, you know adapting to thatis critical, and so you're
(08:26):
looking for people that are veryadaptable and open to change.
Stephanie Downs (08:30):
Yeah and yeah.
That goes back to the role ofthe local sales manager and how
hard that role is, because,you're right, they have
everything kind of comes at themin a variety of different ways,
but they also have to be reallygood at leading their team
through that change managementand through all of those pieces,
in addition to everything elseyou described Exactly.
Giovanna Savorgnan (08:53):
Exactly.
Matt Sunshine (08:54):
You know one of the things you know, Stephanie
and I are fortunate that we getto do these podcasts with so
many exceptional leaders justlike yourself, and one of the
things that keeps coming upagain and again, whether
prompted or not prompted in yourcase, not prompted is that
these really effective managersare really more coaches and
(09:16):
teachers and they are managers.
And you know there's lots ofreasons for that.
Technology is probably thebiggest reason for that.
A lot of the reporting stuff isbeing carried, yeah, but as you
look and in your role, you havethe opportunity to see lots of
(09:38):
managers, lots of leaders inlots of different positions.
So I'm asking you to lean onyour experience and what you
have access to, seeing whatmakes a great sales leader Like
what are those, when you thinkof the really good ones.
If you could design one, whatwould you steal?
(10:00):
What would you?
How would you do it?
Giovanna Savorgnan (10:03):
Yes.
Well, I think that a reallygood sales leader has to really
lean in to the unknown, becausewe don't know where things are
going no business does at alland so the ability to just lean
in and go for the ride, I thinkit's first and foremost.
I think we all, you know, weall have a tendency, like it or
(10:24):
not, to go well, we've neverdone it that way or carry, or
whatever it is.
But you know, I look for salesmanagers that are just like hey,
I got this, no matter what.
Yeah, I like it, I want to gobe the first on the roller
coaster, if you want to call itthat.
So I'm always looking forsomeone like that.
But then I also want someonethat really cares about their
(10:47):
people, particularly this nextgeneration.
They don't want a boss, theywant a partner.
And there's a balancing act,but it's real and it's not going
away.
So looking for someone that'sgoing to really partner with
their sellers and celebratetheir successes.
I think those are the two mainlines.
(11:07):
The other one I would bring upand it hasn't really changed but
it's still important is thatyou know our job often is to
roll rocks uphill and to solveproblems and you've got to like
that.
You know it's like.
You know people that like doingpuzzles.
Stephanie Downs (11:25):
You have to enjoy doing that and figuring
out the solution, because Ithink AEs will move the world
for you if you can help themmake their life easier, that is
so true, and I think as leaders,the better they do at really
conveying the mission back tosome of the things you said at
(11:45):
the very top of the conversation, the better they are at sharing
the vision of the directionwe're going, how we're going to
get there.
It doesn't mean it's alwaysgoing to be seamless and it's
always going to be perfect, butwhen they really can get that,
buy-in sellers will push therocks uphill If you really help
(12:08):
bring them along and they knowwhere they're going they'll do
it and they know they have yourback.
Giovanna Savorgnan (12:14):
You have their back.
Stephanie Downs (12:15):
Yeah, that's right For sure.
Yeah, all right.
So think about if you werespeaking to a group of brand new
managers, brand new salesmanagers.
What advice would you give them?
You know, what would you tellthem that they should really be
paying attention to from alearning standpoint, or what
(12:37):
they should know early on intheir positions?
What would you recommend tothem?
So?
Giovanna Savorgnan (12:44):
you know I've seen them all, but I think
you have to come in.
I always tell people that thatleadership isn't learned.
I mean, isn't it?
You know you're not born withit, it is something that you
learn, and so you have to go inwith a mindset that you're
learning this new role andsomewhat humble about it and
with that, ask a lot ofquestions.
(13:04):
Yeah, so I always tell peoplebe honest about what you don't
know, ask the question, askquestions.
Ask questions, don't be afraidto try something and make a
mistake, and that's how youlearn.
So I always just try.
I'm looking for independenceand I'm looking for people that
are just, you know, willing totake a change, willing to learn,
willing to adapt.
(13:27):
Yeah, and you know, sometimesyou might not agree with a
strategy or something, but havean open mind and give it a try.
Stephanie Downs (13:34):
Yeah, there really is something to the whole
leadership mindset concept.
When you really think abouthaving that leadership mindset,
it is a combination of talent,but it's also, you know, it is
also mindset.
Think about it in the sense ofyou know, the innate talent is
what helps you really besuccessful when you practice an
area of talent.
(13:54):
But that mindset that really isit's about the instructions
that you give yourself in thosedifferent scenarios.
Because, back to what we saidearlier, there's always
something coming at them, right,right.
What instructions do they givethemselves in that moment to
tackle that scenario so theyhave a better outcome or they're
more successful, whatever thescenario is?
Giovanna Savorgnan (14:18):
One thing I tell people managers often is
that usually they're coming upfrom the ranks, yeah, so they
know everything and theytypically, you know, when they
move into this seat they wantpeople to do everything exactly
like they did it and perfect.
And I always say be happy with80%.
Someday you'll get them to 100or they'll get themselves there.
(14:40):
But first start, just be happywith 80%, yeah, yeah.
Matt Sunshine (14:44):
But yeah, what I think that we've seen over and
over is, first of all, sometimesthere's a right way and a wrong
way to do something, and whenthere is a right way and a wrong
way, we should.
Managers need to be extremelyclear, and if someone's doing it
wrong, they need to becorrected, and if they're being
right, you need to be told thattoo.
(15:05):
Sometimes there's differentways to do things, and just
because somebody doesn't do itthe same way you did it doesn't
mean it's the wrong way, it'sjust a different way.
Now I say to managers hey,somebody, let you become you.
You need to let them becomethem Right, and it's being
(15:29):
authentic and being real and notbeing afraid to put yourself
under control.
Giovanna Savorgnan (15:34):
And the other thing I always tell
managers is give yourself somespace to learn, because you're
not going to be great, you'renot going to be perfect your
first year.
It's going to take you sixmonths just to get your feet on
the ground, so give yourselfsome grace.
Matt Sunshine (15:50):
Yeah, we used to have a client that would always
say it takes four seasons.
It does.
We can try to speed it up.
There's some tricks to that, allright.
So maybe the last question Ialways say maybe the last
question is the big one, and soyou never know where it's going
(16:11):
to go.
Stephanie, I want to reservethe right task follow up
questions.
So this is kind of a futurethinking question and before we
jump ahead, we shouldacknowledge the fact that the
job, that the sales departmentsof today look very different
(16:35):
than the sales departments ofthree years ago or five years
ago, whether that's because ofsales enablement tools or lead
generation tools, or a divisionof labor strategy, or the impact
that AI has started to have, orusing screens, using video, it
has changed.
But looking ahead three to fiveyears, what are some of the
(17:01):
changes that you think we'll seein sales departments?
Giovanna Savorgnan (17:05):
That's a tough one because none of us
have a crystal ball, but wecan't see patterns.
We can read through the tradesand kind of make some
assumptions.
Being in media and goingthrough what we're going through
right now, which is is TV dying, is it not?
It depends on what article youread.
(17:26):
There's definitely a place forit, in my opinion, forever, but
I do think that the role ofdigital and the role of
streaming will continue to gainin popularity, and how we fit
into that ecosystem isn'tcompletely.
You know, we don't really knowthe future yet.
We've got ideas, but I thinkthat the department you know, if
(17:48):
you think back to even I mean,I'll say from what I got here in
2018, we had five, I believe,people inputting orders.
Today we have one.
So you know, and you thinkthat's impossible, but it was
because of technology.
So I think technology is goingto continue to play a role.
(18:08):
It'll never substituteface-to-face and relationships
that we have with our clientsever, ever, ever impossible.
But it will continue to bethere and, and you know, it's
our job to figure out how to useit efficiently so that we can
ideally, have more people on thefront line versus less.
I also think the job isbecoming, particularly for a
(18:29):
seller, continues to become moresophisticated, and so, you know
, our sellers need to get moresophisticated, if they already
aren't.
And certainly people that moveinto our business will probably
be coming from different areas.
It might not necessarily becoming from a television station
in another market.
So you know, that's.
(18:49):
Those are some of the things Isee, I can see.
I believe that localparticularly local advertisers
we will continue to play acritical role in their growth,
in their future.
There's a lot of confusion outthere.
Our businesses are struggling,they don't know what to do, and
we have the knowledge and theskill set to provide that.
(19:11):
So we've always been aconsultant, we've always been
passionate about growingbusinesses, but it takes on.
It'll take on a different lookas we move forward, and so why
don't we say better together?
You know all our products workbetter when they're together,
and that, I think, is wherewe're headed In terms of
structure.
You know, I can see I can seemore field managers helping our
(19:33):
sellers on the streets, and Ithink that's important because I
think, as as local grows andimportance in terms of revenue,
that'll be needed yeah.
Matt Sunshine (19:44):
Yeah, there's some consistency in what we're
hearing again and again andagain when we ask this question,
which is, which is really thestrength of doing these right?
You're, you're not trying to alot of smart people all saying
the same thing Things liketechnology is going to continue
(20:06):
to be a big part of what we do.
It is and can lean in andembrace it, and it's our friend.
Also, more feet on the more,more time in front of people At
the same time that there'stechnology, more time in front
of people face to face, andmanagers that are more in the
(20:28):
field, because the recordingaspect of the job is so
important, taking care ofsomewhere else.
More time, yes, yes, literallyliterally at your fingertips,
versus spending half a dayfinding it or preparing it
(20:49):
forever.
Stephanie Downs (20:49):
Right, yeah, stephanie, we're going to say
something I was just leaningback to the technology as our
friend.
Yeah, yeah it does make ourjobs easier in a lot of ways.
Matt Sunshine (20:59):
Absolutely, I think.
I think that my recommendationwould be that anyone that
listens to any of these podcaststhat we're doing is that they
should listen to them all inlike the same day.
Stephanie Downs (21:11):
It really is amazing.
Matt Sunshine (21:12):
Wow, you hear it once you hear it three times,
you hear it five times, you'relike, okay, all these smart
people are saying something verysimilar.
They must learn something.
Yeah, hey, attention, Gio,thank you so much for joining us
.
We really really appreciateyour expertise as a successful
(21:34):
leader is so valuable and soappreciated, so thank you so
much.
We will make sure that anyonethat wants to reach out to you
will make sure your LinkedIninformation is all in the show
notes, and so people will beable to connect with you that
way and for everyone listening.
Thank you so much for joiningus and we look forward to
(21:55):
hearing and seeing you onanother podcast in the future.
Giovanna Savorgnan (21:59):
Fantastic.
Thank you for the opportunity.
Matt Sunshine (22:05):
This has been improving sales performance.
Thanks for listening.
If you like what you heard,join us every week by clicking
the subscribe button For more onthe topics covered in the show.
Visit our website, the centerfor sales strategycom.
There you can find helpfulresources and content aimed at
improving your sales performance.
Welcome to Improving Sales Performance, a
podcast highlighting tips andinsights aimed at helping sales
organizations realize, and maybeeven exceed, their goals.
Here we chat with thoughtleaders, experts and gurus who
have years of sales experiencefrom a wide range of industries.
I'm your host, matt Sunshine,ceo at the Center for Sales
Strategy, a sales performanceconsulting company.
Stephanie Downs (00:43):
We're so proud to be celebrating Women in Sales
Month once again.
For each week in October, wehave an amazing slate of women
sales leaders who will besharing their unique insights
From offering advice for salesmanagers, new and more
experience, to surveying theanticipated landscape of sales
in the years ahead.
When it comes to improvingsales performance, these ladies
(01:06):
know how it's done.
I'm Stephanie Downs, seniorVice President and Senior
Consultant at the Center forSales Strategy.
I'll be joining Matt Sunshineon the show for the entire month
of October.
Today, we are joined by GioSavorgnan, director of Sales at
WFAA.
Gio shares so many amazingobservations, such as why it's
(01:29):
important for everyone, from thetop down, to fully believe in
the mission of the organization,how the best managers are as
good at coaching as they areteaching and, lastly, by really
great sales leaders have to leaninto the unknown.
Matt Sunshine (01:52):
All right, Gio, thank you for being here.
This is going to be a greatconversation.
We've known each other a longtime and these questions are
right in your wheelhouse, and soI'm excited, excited for us to
dive in.
So, with that, from your pointof view, what are the things
that you look at in a salesdepartment that lets you know
(02:16):
that things are on track?
In other words, or said anotherway, are there some KPIs, some
key performance indicators maybethree, four, five that you tend
to really zero in on to helpyou drive performance?
Giovanna Savorgnan (02:34):
Sure, first, thanks for having me here today
.
I think that what I look at formy team is, first and foremost,
do I have alignment?
And that starts with themanagement team.
Everyone needs to believe inthe mission and believe in what
we're doing.
We don't need robots, buteveryone needs to understand
(02:54):
what we're trying to accomplish.
So it starts there and thenfunnels down to everybody else
in the department, from sellersto account managers, you name it
.
They all need to understand andbe aligned as well, because if
we have fractures in the system,it will get in the way of us
succeeding.
(03:14):
It'll certainly slow thingsdown.
I think the second thing isclearly defined strategy and
what we're trying to accomplish.
So it's one thing to tell themAEs I'm using them as an example
but it's one of the things totell them that this is our
strategy, so let's go do it.
(03:35):
And it's another thing to saythis is our strategy.
This is why we built thestrategy the way we want it.
And then these are the tacticalsteps that we can take to get
there.
Does everybody agree?
And so if you can get those twothings, then you're really
going in the right direction.
And the last thing is APIsmeasurement.
Are we doing the number ofactivities we need to be doing?
(03:58):
Are we hitting our revenuegoals?
If we aren't, what's holding usback?
So to me, those are like thethree big ones.
Matt Sunshine (04:08):
Yeah, diving just in on that a second, is there a
particular hack that you use todetermine or to know if there
is alignment?
Is there a specific activitymetric that you look at?
I know you look at all of them,but is there one that you kind
(04:29):
of lean on a little bit more?
Just your comments on that.
Giovanna Savorgnan (04:34):
So I think that people I don't care what
you do everybody has so muchcoming at them and so repetition
is a big piece of it.
We try to do that throughvisuals throughout the
department, through our salesmeetings.
We try to anytime we seesuccess associated with our
(04:58):
strategic plan, we are going tocelebrate that.
And it's not a sale, necessarilyit can be, but it can be
anything in the department thatreflects what we're trying to
accomplish.
So I think it goes back to justconstantly reminding people and
then you know, and when you seesomething that's not what you
want, addressing it immediatelyand trying to figure out what's
(05:19):
at the root.
So to me it's just keeping theyou know, watching your
guardrails and making sure thatyou're always staying in your
lane.
Stephanie Downs (05:27):
Yeah, so you're already starting to touch on
some of this, especiallythinking about alignment across
the organization and mission andvision, or you know, kind of
the value of the organizationand getting everybody aligned on
that.
What should salespeople, salesmanagers, really be focused on?
Think about it in terms of bigrocks or the highest priorities.
(05:51):
Where should they really bepaying attention?
Giovanna Savorgnan (05:55):
There's a whole bunch of them.
I really think that the salesmanagers, particularly local
sales managers, have one of thehardest jobs in the building.
They're managing up, they'remanaging down and they're
managing across, so and thenthey've got clients, of course,
and all the problems.
That not necessarily problemssome good or bad, but you know,
a lot of times they're dealingwith things that they need to
fix.
(06:15):
So you know, I think I, youknow, the successful sales
manager is really good atproblem solving.
They're also good teachers andmotivators.
You know, we often say that youshouldn't have to motivate
people, that they should have itwithin themselves.
But everybody has a bad day.
Everybody has a bad day, so youdo have to be there to help them
(06:37):
through.
I also think that the job ofthe sellers has become much more
complicated and there has to beempathy number one, because a
lot of people have been herewhen we sell one product and now
we're selling a whole bunchmore, and so you need to have
empathy with your sellers but atthe same time, push and push,
because their future isdependent on change.
(06:59):
They have to if they want to besuccessful.
So a manager has to be able toconvey that and also know.
You know it's one thing to beempathetic, but it's another
thing to, you know, hold peopleup and let's go, let's push that
big rock together, yeah, yeah.
And then I think the other oneis just learning.
You know, I think a salesmanager has to be a coach and a
(07:23):
teacher, and the teaching partthey need to know just as good
as the AEs or all thosecredibility, really quick, yeah.
Stephanie Downs (07:34):
So you already you said the sales people that
their job has really changedbecause of the complexity of the
job and the number of products.
Well, sales managers jobs havealso changed a lot over the last
you know, pick a year, threeyears, four years, five years.
It's really changed, right?
Give us some comparison of whatit was like to be a sales
(07:55):
leader in an organization fouror five years ago compared to
what it's like now.
Giovanna Savorgnan (08:01):
Well, the big is that.
You know they have those COVIDobviously, but COVID really did
was accelerate the change.
The change was already coming,yeah.
So I think that, as leaders andas sellers, you know you can't.
You can't just stick your headin the sand and hope that it'll
all go away.
It's not going away.
So, you know adapting to thatis critical, and so you're
(08:26):
looking for people that are veryadaptable and open to change.
Stephanie Downs (08:30):
Yeah and yeah.
That goes back to the role ofthe local sales manager and how
hard that role is, because,you're right, they have
everything kind of comes at themin a variety of different ways,
but they also have to be reallygood at leading their team
through that change managementand through all of those pieces,
in addition to everything elseyou described Exactly.
Giovanna Savorgnan (08:53):
Exactly.
Matt Sunshine (08:54):
You know one of the things you know, Stephanie
and I are fortunate that we getto do these podcasts with so
many exceptional leaders justlike yourself, and one of the
things that keeps coming upagain and again, whether
prompted or not prompted in yourcase, not prompted is that
these really effective managersare really more coaches and
(09:16):
teachers and they are managers.
And you know there's lots ofreasons for that.
Technology is probably thebiggest reason for that.
A lot of the reporting stuff isbeing carried, yeah, but as you
look and in your role, you havethe opportunity to see lots of
(09:38):
managers, lots of leaders inlots of different positions.
So I'm asking you to lean onyour experience and what you
have access to, seeing whatmakes a great sales leader Like
what are those, when you thinkof the really good ones.
If you could design one, whatwould you steal?
(10:00):
What would you?
How would you do it?
Giovanna Savorgnan (10:03):
Yes.
Well, I think that a reallygood sales leader has to really
lean in to the unknown, becausewe don't know where things are
going no business does at alland so the ability to just lean
in and go for the ride, I thinkit's first and foremost.
I think we all, you know, weall have a tendency, like it or
(10:24):
not, to go well, we've neverdone it that way or carry, or
whatever it is.
But you know, I look for salesmanagers that are just like hey,
I got this, no matter what.
Yeah, I like it, I want to gobe the first on the roller
coaster, if you want to call itthat.
So I'm always looking forsomeone like that.
But then I also want someonethat really cares about their
(10:47):
people, particularly this nextgeneration.
They don't want a boss, theywant a partner.
And there's a balancing act,but it's real and it's not going
away.
So looking for someone that'sgoing to really partner with
their sellers and celebratetheir successes.
I think those are the two mainlines.
(11:07):
The other one I would bring upand it hasn't really changed but
it's still important is thatyou know our job often is to
roll rocks uphill and to solveproblems and you've got to like
that.
You know it's like.
You know people that like doingpuzzles.
Stephanie Downs (11:25):
You have to enjoy doing that and figuring
out the solution, because Ithink AEs will move the world
for you if you can help themmake their life easier, that is
so true, and I think as leaders,the better they do at really
conveying the mission back tosome of the things you said at
(11:45):
the very top of the conversation, the better they are at sharing
the vision of the directionwe're going, how we're going to
get there.
It doesn't mean it's alwaysgoing to be seamless and it's
always going to be perfect, butwhen they really can get that,
buy-in sellers will push therocks uphill If you really help
(12:08):
bring them along and they knowwhere they're going they'll do
it and they know they have yourback.
Giovanna Savorgnan (12:14):
You have their back.
Stephanie Downs (12:15):
Yeah, that's right For sure.
Yeah, all right.
So think about if you werespeaking to a group of brand new
managers, brand new salesmanagers.
What advice would you give them?
You know, what would you tellthem that they should really be
paying attention to from alearning standpoint, or what
(12:37):
they should know early on intheir positions?
What would you recommend tothem?
So?
Giovanna Savorgnan (12:44):
you know I've seen them all, but I think
you have to come in.
I always tell people that thatleadership isn't learned.
I mean, isn't it?
You know you're not born withit, it is something that you
learn, and so you have to go inwith a mindset that you're
learning this new role andsomewhat humble about it and
with that, ask a lot ofquestions.
(13:04):
Yeah, so I always tell peoplebe honest about what you don't
know, ask the question, askquestions.
Ask questions, don't be afraidto try something and make a
mistake, and that's how youlearn.
So I always just try.
I'm looking for independenceand I'm looking for people that
are just, you know, willing totake a change, willing to learn,
willing to adapt.
(13:27):
Yeah, and you know, sometimesyou might not agree with a
strategy or something, but havean open mind and give it a try.
Stephanie Downs (13:34):
Yeah, there really is something to the whole
leadership mindset concept.
When you really think abouthaving that leadership mindset,
it is a combination of talent,but it's also, you know, it is
also mindset.
Think about it in the sense ofyou know, the innate talent is
what helps you really besuccessful when you practice an
area of talent.
(13:54):
But that mindset that really isit's about the instructions
that you give yourself in thosedifferent scenarios.
Because, back to what we saidearlier, there's always
something coming at them, right,right.
What instructions do they givethemselves in that moment to
tackle that scenario so theyhave a better outcome or they're
more successful, whatever thescenario is?
Giovanna Savorgnan (14:18):
One thing I tell people managers often is
that usually they're coming upfrom the ranks, yeah, so they
know everything and theytypically, you know, when they
move into this seat they wantpeople to do everything exactly
like they did it and perfect.
And I always say be happy with80%.
Someday you'll get them to 100or they'll get themselves there.
(14:40):
But first start, just be happywith 80%, yeah, yeah.
Matt Sunshine (14:44):
But yeah, what I think that we've seen over and
over is, first of all, sometimesthere's a right way and a wrong
way to do something, and whenthere is a right way and a wrong
way, we should.
Managers need to be extremelyclear, and if someone's doing it
wrong, they need to becorrected, and if they're being
right, you need to be told thattoo.
(15:05):
Sometimes there's differentways to do things, and just
because somebody doesn't do itthe same way you did it doesn't
mean it's the wrong way, it'sjust a different way.
Now I say to managers hey,somebody, let you become you.
You need to let them becomethem Right, and it's being
(15:29):
authentic and being real and notbeing afraid to put yourself
under control.
Giovanna Savorgnan (15:34):
And the other thing I always tell
managers is give yourself somespace to learn, because you're
not going to be great, you'renot going to be perfect your
first year.
It's going to take you sixmonths just to get your feet on
the ground, so give yourselfsome grace.
Matt Sunshine (15:50):
Yeah, we used to have a client that would always
say it takes four seasons.
It does.
We can try to speed it up.
There's some tricks to that, allright.
So maybe the last question Ialways say maybe the last
question is the big one, and soyou never know where it's going
(16:11):
to go.
Stephanie, I want to reservethe right task follow up
questions.
So this is kind of a futurethinking question and before we
jump ahead, we shouldacknowledge the fact that the
job, that the sales departmentsof today look very different
(16:35):
than the sales departments ofthree years ago or five years
ago, whether that's because ofsales enablement tools or lead
generation tools, or a divisionof labor strategy, or the impact
that AI has started to have, orusing screens, using video, it
has changed.
But looking ahead three to fiveyears, what are some of the
(17:01):
changes that you think we'll seein sales departments?
Giovanna Savorgnan (17:05):
That's a tough one because none of us
have a crystal ball, but wecan't see patterns.
We can read through the tradesand kind of make some
assumptions.
Being in media and goingthrough what we're going through
right now, which is is TV dying, is it not?
It depends on what article youread.
(17:26):
There's definitely a place forit, in my opinion, forever, but
I do think that the role ofdigital and the role of
streaming will continue to gainin popularity, and how we fit
into that ecosystem isn'tcompletely.
You know, we don't really knowthe future yet.
We've got ideas, but I thinkthat the department you know, if
(17:48):
you think back to even I mean,I'll say from what I got here in
2018, we had five, I believe,people inputting orders.
Today we have one.
So you know, and you thinkthat's impossible, but it was
because of technology.
So I think technology is goingto continue to play a role.
(18:08):
It'll never substituteface-to-face and relationships
that we have with our clientsever, ever, ever impossible.
But it will continue to bethere and, and you know, it's
our job to figure out how to useit efficiently so that we can
ideally, have more people on thefront line versus less.
I also think the job isbecoming, particularly for a
(18:29):
seller, continues to become moresophisticated, and so, you know
, our sellers need to get moresophisticated, if they already
aren't.
And certainly people that moveinto our business will probably
be coming from different areas.
It might not necessarily becoming from a television station
in another market.
So you know, that's.
(18:49):
Those are some of the things Isee, I can see.
I believe that localparticularly local advertisers
we will continue to play acritical role in their growth,
in their future.
There's a lot of confusion outthere.
Our businesses are struggling,they don't know what to do, and
we have the knowledge and theskill set to provide that.
(19:11):
So we've always been aconsultant, we've always been
passionate about growingbusinesses, but it takes on.
It'll take on a different lookas we move forward, and so why
don't we say better together?
You know all our products workbetter when they're together,
and that, I think, is wherewe're headed In terms of
structure.
You know, I can see I can seemore field managers helping our
(19:33):
sellers on the streets, and Ithink that's important because I
think, as as local grows andimportance in terms of revenue,
that'll be needed yeah.
Matt Sunshine (19:44):
Yeah, there's some consistency in what we're
hearing again and again andagain when we ask this question,
which is, which is really thestrength of doing these right?
You're, you're not trying to alot of smart people all saying
the same thing Things liketechnology is going to continue
(20:06):
to be a big part of what we do.
It is and can lean in andembrace it, and it's our friend.
Also, more feet on the more,more time in front of people At
the same time that there'stechnology, more time in front
of people face to face, andmanagers that are more in the
(20:28):
field, because the recordingaspect of the job is so
important, taking care ofsomewhere else.
More time, yes, yes, literallyliterally at your fingertips,
versus spending half a dayfinding it or preparing it
(20:49):
forever.
Stephanie Downs (20:49):
Right, yeah, stephanie, we're going to say
something I was just leaningback to the technology as our
friend.
Yeah, yeah it does make ourjobs easier in a lot of ways.
Matt Sunshine (20:59):
Absolutely, I think.
I think that my recommendationwould be that anyone that
listens to any of these podcaststhat we're doing is that they
should listen to them all inlike the same day.
Stephanie Downs (21:11):
It really is amazing.
Matt Sunshine (21:12):
Wow, you hear it once you hear it three times,
you hear it five times, you'relike, okay, all these smart
people are saying something verysimilar.
They must learn something.
Yeah, hey, attention, Gio,thank you so much for joining us
.
We really really appreciateyour expertise as a successful
(21:34):
leader is so valuable and soappreciated, so thank you so
much.
We will make sure that anyonethat wants to reach out to you
will make sure your LinkedIninformation is all in the show
notes, and so people will beable to connect with you that
way and for everyone listening.
Thank you so much for joiningus and we look forward to
(21:55):
hearing and seeing you onanother podcast in the future.
Giovanna Savorgnan (21:59):
Fantastic.
Thank you for the opportunity.
Matt Sunshine (22:05):
This has been improving sales performance.
Thanks for listening.
If you like what you heard,join us every week by clicking
the subscribe button For more onthe topics covered in the show.
Visit our website, the centerfor sales strategycom.
There you can find helpfulresources and content aimed at
improving your sales performance.
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