October 14, 2025 • 43 mins
We trace Malo Bands’ journey from handwoven artistry to a tech-enabled, service-first business, and how listening to retailers turned beautiful showpieces into scalable, profitable designs. Tony shares candid lessons on customization, B2B tools, tariffs, and why yellow gold is surging.
Learn more about Malo Bands here: https://www.intro.malobands.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:01):
Welcome to In the Loop.
What is up, everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
This week I have on Tony fromMalo Bands.
And Malo is one of those jewelrybrands that I've been taking a
look at because of their uniquestyle, and I feel like their
(00:21):
design really stands out and isvery different than a lot of the
work that's on the market rightnow.
And I think that's reallyexciting.
They have these like wovenbands, and I think that they are
really pretty cool.
And I speak with Tony about thehistory of their brand, what
they're working on, and how theydevelop relationships with uh
new retailers.
It's a cool conversation.
(00:42):
I hope you enjoy.
SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the
jewelry industry's favoritewebsite platform and digital
growth agency.
Our mission reaches way beyondtechnology.
With decades of experience andlong-lasting industry
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(01:10):
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(01:32):
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Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmark.com slash go.
And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_02 (01:58):
How about you?
So well.
I'm really excited to get achance to speak with you.
You're one of our premiumvendors, and uh your work really
stands out to me.
I think it's really uh somebeautiful work.
What in my eyes, when I think ofMalo, I think of uh these woven
bands.
And I was doing some researchabout you guys and trying to
find out like some history andand and things like that.
(02:19):
When you talk about uh yourcompany, how do you sort of set
the scene and introduce it inwhat you do?
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
Um so the way we see ourselves is uh see ourselves.
So obviously, we got startedwith the uh with the handhoven
bands.
That was really the uh how wegot our foot in the door in
terms of wedding bands, right?
So that really set us up uh withsuccess off right off the gate,
(02:47):
and it allowed us to work with alot of customers that uh taught
us a lot in the meantime, right?
Like big volume users.
So we were much less uh at thetime we used to be uh
distributing our products mostlythrough uh big majors or uh
distributors, so we had less ofa working relationship with
(03:09):
independent jewelry stores wasthrough major change stores, so
across North America, right?
So that was that was thebeginning, right?
So and then the company evolved.
Obviously, uh handholds on bandshad a great run, like we had a
good uh decade to maybe uh 15years of those bands being super
(03:29):
super uh uh popular.
Obviously, with uh CNCs andtechnology coming into play, uh
things evolved.
And uh in the mid-90s,technology in terms of wedding
my production was still at theearly stage, right?
Everything was done much more ina manual manner, you know.
So the auto the full automateduh technology came, was
(03:52):
available early 2000s, late 90s,and then until that becomes
implemented and uh andavailable, right?
It takes some time.
So when dot technology came in,Michael, that's when like we uh
started off with the first basicCNC's basic CNCs, then we uh
started working with thoselearning how to use technology.
(04:12):
So we went from being fullcraft, like what everything was
done completely manually, to uhtransitioning into uh machinery,
and it's not like we knew muchabout it, to be quite honest.
It was really this is where thefuture is.
Like uh we see uh laborshortages and all those things,
right?
Yeah, scaling problems.
(04:33):
So uh my father, Habib, whichfounded the company, uh uh like
in terms of passion, uhmachinery was always like his uh
um his thing, you know, whetherwhether it meant that it's stuff
that works for us or not.
Like anytime we went to tradeshows when I was a kid, because
(04:54):
he brought me around uh like asbasically his bag man to carry
his bags and stuff too, and wewould like spend more time on
the machinery section than thethe actual uh jewelry section,
right?
Yeah, so kind of like we havethat uh like he transferred that
to me and to my brother,obviously, always having the eye
open on evolving and getting thenewest technology in, right?
(05:16):
But at that time, he was one ofthe first ones that really
understood where the marketcould be.
And in North America, basicallyjewelry manufacturing has hit uh
like it's nothing close to whatit was, right?
So if we hadn't evolved quicklyenough at that time, we wouldn't
be nowhere near where we aretoday as a company.
(05:37):
So we're definitely a companythat believes in technology and
in uh being able to adaptyourself to the trends, you
know, to the market trends, andcontinuously uh bring to the
customers, to our customers, andto the consumers, what we
believe uh the latest trendsshould be.
So it's not necessarily about uhwhat's available in the market,
(05:59):
it's looking at outside theindustry, what works, what do
you see in the fashion industry,what colors are being used in
terms of materials, you know,which materials are available in
our type of production that wecan like get inspired from and
then apply it to wedding bands.
So it's really uh definitely uhmore than a full-time job, let's
(06:22):
put it that way.
So it's like it's likedesigning, uh, consulting, uh, a
lot of research.
That's and it's it's really fun.
It's like it's like there's noboring moment, or there's no
moment where like it there'salways something to do, there's
always preparation, learning,uh, trial and error, RD.
(06:43):
So I can't complain.
I've got a great job, I have agreat passion for it, and uh
from the customer's point ofview, I think we're doing pretty
good.
SPEAKER_02 (06:53):
So yeah, sounds amazing.
And I've definitely been reallyimpressed by uh by the work that
you guys have produced.
It's really fascinating thatswitch from the handmade and
handcrafted aspect to usingmachinery and and and kind of
catching up because that's theone thing that I've found to be
increasingly uh prominent andpre and um important for a
(07:16):
company is like if you are youonly have a limit to how fast
your hands can move, and ifyou're doing everything by hand,
suddenly it's just a matter ofselling your time and and having
a one-to-one value for yourtime, and you just have to
assign the dollar amount to it.
But when you start introducingmachinery, it sounds like your
your father Habib was uh yeah,uh is it a machinist?
(07:39):
Yeah, really ahead of his team.
SPEAKER_00 (07:40):
He was far from being a machinist, he was far
from being a machinist, far fromit.
More uh understandingopportunity, right?
Understanding the value ofopportunity, and that uh if you
don't uh look at different waysof doing things, you're always
stuck within a certain limit ofwhat you're capable of uh of
(08:01):
delivering.
And uh it was a passion, likeit's a true passion, like it's
there's no other way to describeit.
Like you really have to be therein those times to see uh the
investments made and the waythat uh uh whether you
understand it or not, the beliefin yourself that you'll find the
right people uh that willunderstand it.
(08:22):
So, like you know, there's adifference between being a
visionary and being like anexecutionary, right?
Yeah, completely two differentroles, right?
First, you gotta like understandthat this is the direction I'm
going, and then somehow you findthe people that uh can help you
get there.
So um it's big shoes to fail,but we're trying to do our best.
SPEAKER_02 (08:41):
Yeah, and if you don't mind me asking, is is your
father still involved with thecompany or has he uh fully
stepped away?
SPEAKER_00 (08:49):
You can't fully step away.
Fully stepping away is like uhuh what does that really mean,
right?
Like when you've been doing thisas your whole life, right?
What you want is uh number one,the moment he realized that he
had given us everything heneeded to give us, and that
after this after this moment onwe had to fly under our wings to
(09:14):
learn and to grow as a person,he established that very early
on that uh he gave us thetraining necessary, and after
that it was upon us to take itto the next level because uh he
did what he did.
Yeah, you understand?
I dare now he's at a point whereit's more a mentorship role
where we pick and choose when togo to see him on various topics
(09:35):
to see.
SPEAKER_02 (09:36):
I can only imagine, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (09:38):
You have a uh you have the best mentor you can
ever ask for, you have somethingsomebody that people would pay
big money to have access to,right?
Yeah, so and even at then youmight not even find somebody
that has that experience.
So for me and my brothers reallyuh doing what we think is best,
and uh, but whenever you havethat internal uh lack of clarity
(10:03):
and you just want somebody toguide you in the right
direction, that's what that'swhere he steps in and tells us
great, bad, don't even thinkabout it.
Uh we've done this X amount ofyears ago, it didn't work
because XYZ reason.
So uh it's it's something thatuh we're grateful to be in a
position to have uh to guide usin the right direction.
(10:25):
That's really where he is rightnow.
And obviously, uh he lovesVegas.
Vegas is like uh the only showhe'll attend almost, right?
Yeah, he'll definitely be there.
So a lot of his friends arethere, you know, on the vendor
side, people that he worked withfor years and years and years.
So when I see them together ateither our boot or their boot,
(10:47):
just hearing the stories, youknow, just hearing the stories,
yeah, on how it was back in theday, and uh how our generation
doesn't understand anything.
SPEAKER_02 (10:55):
I don't understand it all.
But that's a really cool it'scool that you uh still keep that
relationship open with him, butalso seem to be fully in the
driver's seat.
But I also sounds like uhthere's this decision that has
to be made by every um vendor,is that you have to decide are
you going to are you gonna gofor take over the world?
(11:17):
Are you gonna try to have asmany retailer uh carrying your
product as possible?
Or is it about dominating for acouple of retailers and really
deepening those connections?
Is that something you've had tokind of decide amongst yourself?
Because in the end, you are likeyou said, a two-person
operation.
Is it oh, we need to scale andexpand and bring on more people
(11:40):
and and uh and and have ahundred or five hundred more
retailers carrying our products,or is it like okay, we're going
to we have our base, we need tojust expand our offerings, and
then the rest will follow?
SPEAKER_00 (11:54):
So, you know, that's like such a good question
because uh that's a questionthat uh kind of time, a question
that you can only answer withtime.
Okay, so initially, uh there's alot of figuring out at the early
stages of growth, right?
Where what's your valueproposition?
(12:14):
How many uh what's the bestmarket segment that uh uh that
can really can benefit from thetype of product and services you
offer, right?
So initially it was uh we didn'treally know.
So I'm not gonna lie, initiallyit was really uh the uh ambition
to go forward and that the theconfidence that we'll figure it
(12:37):
out as we uh have conversations,right?
So the first few years when wereally expanded in the US, I
would say it was tough, really,really tough, okay, because uh
we're coming with a certainattitude in terms of we're
really successful in Canada.
Now the question is uh how doesthat translate to a new market,
(12:58):
right?
Yes, we're neighbors, you'reyes, everything is very similar,
but I mean there's a lot morecompetition, and things are a
little different, expectationsare different, uh, like you
know, like it's around theclock, answers today.
There's not so there was alittle uh moment where we had to
reinfind ourselves, right?
So the plan that we started offwith uh 10 years ago is far from
(13:22):
being where we are today.
So initially I thought thatgoing super narrow, super niche,
yes, would be uh the way to go.
Uh, because I felt that like alot of the categories that uh we
could do well was already donewell uh with other companies in
the US.
So I'm like, why fight a battlewhere it's it's it's like you're
(13:44):
fighting for a better price, oryou can't really bring enough
innovation to the to thepicture, right?
So yeah, that was the initialmindset.
So at that moment, we led withour more unique products.
That was the products that we wefelt that uh our passion for
creating uh spectacular pieceswould translate into sales.
(14:08):
We learned real quick that yes,we had a lot of attention given
to those lines.
We were relatively successful inplacing products within the
limitations we had in terms ofuh salespeople and uh people
that know us.
So in the beginning, nobodyknows you, so the first few
years is just like showing yourface and grinding, right?
(14:30):
Until they recognize you andthey give you an opportunity.
But then what we realized waswhich is really the key, the key
is what looks great doesn'tnecessarily translate in sales.
So when you really createsomething beautiful and unique,
the amount of people that willappreciate that piece, you
(14:50):
really narrow down thatcustomer, right?
So so that's not what that werealize.
That's on like we spent so manyyears developing that, pushing
that, selling that to come to arealization that those are great
conversation starters, butthey're not what's gonna make
you uh scale your business,yeah.
Okay, so that took us like fouror five years to realize, to be
(15:13):
honest.
Then what we realized was uhwhen you're when you want to
scale in terms of production,all the challenges that come
with scaling, right?
So the way orders are processed,how many people can have the
skill set necessary to createthose art pieces, right?
So there was kind of a wholetransformation that needed to
(15:34):
happen within our company toreally understand that, like,
it's not about what we can do,is what is the smartest decision
to take on long-term.
Uh, like if I look at it longterm, how do I predict problems
that I know I will have and howdo I eliminate that problem
before I even have it, right?
So that's when we made thecomplete shift in uh
(15:57):
understanding few points, whichthe only way to understand what
we would the decisions we tookwas uh listening to customers.
So you know when you're not whenyou're going to shows, when
you're doing all these things,right?
What happens is uh you have theopportunity to live to to face
(16:18):
customers, yes.
So even though you don't comehome with sales in the early
years, what you did have wasrejection, which made you uh ask
yourself serious questions, yes.
Why I'm not doing why what I'mnot succeeding in all the
things, why didn't they wantthis?
SPEAKER_02 (16:33):
Why didn't they like it?
SPEAKER_00 (16:34):
Yeah, so you have your notes.
Then over the years, uh, whenyou hear the same pain points
from the customers, and yourealize it's not like singular
to one person, it's like theseis these are the majority of the
problems that business ownersare facing at the retail side,
right?
I agree.
So when we had heard enough ofthose, it was pretty evident
(16:56):
that uh you we had to number oneoffer extreme levels of
customization.
So customization is reallylacking in the marketplace at
the time.
Now it evolved, it had no choiceto evolve, right?
Yes, but if I go back a decade,people weren't really offering
that because it created a lot ofmanufacturing complications,
(17:17):
right?
Which for us it was more problembecause we were used to working
in a very uh high-paced,high-paced environment in terms
so for each it was just aboutlike how do we just make this
happen?
Like, we're used to chaos, howdo we make organized chaos?
You know, so how do we just makebetter work orders?
(17:39):
So, my I have to give it mystaff was very good at adapting,
like they were very good atadapting on the fly, on the fly,
and we had to improve quickmeanings, and then it got things
got implemented real quick,right?
So, customization was key.
Second thing was how do youcreate tools?
So we understood the pinpoint ofthe retailers, which was much
(18:00):
more service-driven than productdriven.
So, what we learned was yes, youneed to innovate, yes, we need
to come with better product anduh and basically be ahead of the
curve in terms of where thetrends will go, which you have
do your ways of identifyingthose things, you know.
(18:21):
It's not like it's not rocketscience, like we're not
launching satellites, yeah.
So, uh, by just watching uhmen's fashion, by just watching
other industries, uh uh what doyou see on athletes one day uh
doing interviews, what type ofjewelry they're wearing, you
just have to have the eye, youknow.
(18:42):
You have to have the eye toidentify like where things are
going, right?
Uh, so that wasn't the hardpart.
The hard part was reallyunderstanding the customer.
So it was about customation,service, uh, as many tools as
they can get to do their jobwith minimal uh waste of time.
(19:03):
So, you know, we realize that uhif the salesperson has a
problem, they have to go see themanager, the manager has to call
the factory.
Then the factory and customerservice agent might not know the
answer, so they have to go see amanager.
So we look at the process ofgetting the right answer to the
to the decision to the personthat needs it, and we realize
(19:24):
there's so many layers thatbasically it's impossible to
scale, and there's no way thatyou can keep your customer happy
with those methods because ifyou have a customer in front of
you and you're working with acustomer, you need the answer
right now.
Yeah, like 10 minutes is alreadytoo late, maybe.
Because if the guy left thestore, good luck calling him,
(19:44):
good luck bringing him back.
Like, you know, you gotta beatthe iron when it's hot, right?
So then we put all our energy inbuilding a B2B tool where 90% of
the bulk, the daily demands canjust be available, automated,
and a click of a button, right?
And that's when everythingchanged.
(20:05):
That's really when everythingchanged, is when we were able to
uh showcase how uh what you havecurrently, you're not stuck with
that.
There's a better way, you know.
There's a better way where yourstaff uh will be much more
motivated to uh to work with thejewelry store owners to sell
(20:27):
more when they have the tools.
So and we're still figuring itout, but right now it's all
about service, it's all aboutlike just it's not very hard,
Michael.
We add the question we askourselves is the following if I
was a jewelry store, what wouldI want as a tool?
And if I was a jewelry store,what would I need as as support?
(20:51):
So those are the questions weask ourselves, and if you can
answer that, you kind of likehow do I want to be treated?
What's what would I accept?
How so that's our basis ofcoming to a decision?
If I want to accept this, thisas whatever it is, it can never
be presented to a customerbasically.
(21:12):
So uh, and we're figuring it outright now as well.
Like it's it's a not it's acontinuous improvement,
continuous improvement.
SPEAKER_02 (21:18):
It sounds really interesting to like a conundrum
to kind of wrap your headaround, and it's cool that
you're taking a uh the approachof listening to your clients.
It's something that I do userexperience uh punchmark, and
user experience is all about umyeah, finding out exactly all
those things that you just said.
What is it that the customerwants?
(21:39):
What is it that a client woulduh accept without you know being
a turnoff to them or send themaway?
And I'm totally with you.
I part of the reason why I go tojewelry shows is not because of
my you know amazing skills atselling, that's not why they do
have salespeople for that.
What it actually is is I go andI hear what are the pain points
(22:03):
and what is it that we're notoffering?
What are they asking about thatwe don't have an answer to yet?
And when you start listening forthat kind of way, it's almost
like a sieve.
Instead of uh catching thewater, you're trying to catch
what is not in the water, andsuddenly it just turns the the
problem on its head, andsuddenly you're finding the the
things you don't have the answerto.
It's very interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (22:24):
It's the only way, Michael, because look, uh when
you realize that makingdecisions in an office with
people that are not connected toreality is gonna mostly uh omit
huge portions of the things thatactually matter.
So decisions mean in a in aboardroom is gonna be
(22:47):
profit-driven, it's gonna becost cutting driven, it's gonna
be this driven, that driven,right?
So that's what the role of thosepeople are.
But when when it comes to thepoint of making an impact in the
in in in in jewelry stores livesor day-to-day activities, that
will never work.
(23:08):
Never work because the theintangibles that you can't think
about, you can never figure itout if you're not either living
in.
(23:50):
So he might only have X amountthat's available for your
category, right?
So, how do I serve thatcustomer?
You know, then you have thecomplete opposite.
You have a store that has sixthousand square foot.
No, it's like, how do I how canI offer something to this guy
that have a completely differentneed than this guy?
The six thousand square footjewelry store doesn't need uh uh
(24:12):
every single skew, every singlecategory, it might only need
best sellers, right?
Just best sellers, withoffering.
This guy might need every singlething that exists, right?
So, how do you know that bybeing in the jewelry store?
Even the shows aren't goodenough for that.
You gotta be at the shows, yougotta be in the jewelry stores,
you gotta do your analysis athome.
(24:34):
It's a combination of things,and uh, that's the beauty,
that's the beauty of uh beinghands-on.
SPEAKER_02 (24:40):
That's so cool that you're doing that.
It's really uh I don't hearenough about vendors making
those those trips, but the factthat you're you're investing in
uh actually attending and likegoing into a uh a jewelry store
is so cool.
Um, I wonder I wonder if morevendors should be doing that.
It sounds like hearing, youknow, experiencing firsthand
(25:04):
what we in the UX world we callthem user interviews, and we
also call them um in situationaluser interviews.
Sometimes you when you do theseinterviews, a lot of times we
were instructed in school thathey, you should try to go to
their uh place of use.
And so it'd be like, hey, ifthey're using this tool in their
commute, you should go andcontact someone and ask if you
(25:27):
could ride with them on theircommute and see how often are
they picking it up, how oftenare they doing it.
But hearing that you're you'reseeing the differences in, for
example, uh you know, a smallstore versus a big store versus
maybe like a city store versusan uh a different one.
That sounds really quite cool.
SPEAKER_00 (25:47):
Well, Mike, it's it's about uh broadening your
under your overallunderstanding.
It's not about like one thing orit's everything, it's being in
the environment, you know, andwhat and the environment, like
there you're always gonna comeup a better person.
Whether something went wrong,it's good.
Whether something went well,it's good, everything is good,
you know.
(26:08):
Like whether your flat gotdelayed, it teaches you patience
and don't uh stress over thingsyou can't control.
You understand?
So when you look at it, it it'sthe whole everything that comes
with is great, you know.
It you get to uh see what thesales rep does, you know what I
mean?
You get to see their job.
SPEAKER_02 (26:26):
How are they pitching it?
SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
Five hours between stores, and you understand that
there's a certain respect togive to that uh job as well, you
know.
Absolutely.
So it's it's a whole package,it's a whole package, and um I'm
sure a lot of successful jewelrycompanies do it, you know.
Like I'm definitely not the onlyone.
Uh I thought maybe thedifference is I enjoy doing it,
(26:48):
you know.
Maybe I can say for sure.
Yeah, if I can if I can do showsand do only shows, I'd be a very
happy person.
Just like that.
Come yeah, the time you spendwith the customers, with the
vendors, it's just a great time.
Great time.
SPEAKER_02 (27:02):
What about this, Tony?
So you guys are based out of outof Canada.
Um, I'm actually just right, uh,I'm about 45 minutes from the
border um from Montreal.
Uh what is the the difference?
Do you are you doing you werementioning how you were
primarily heavily invested indoing business in in Canada and
and primarily serving there?
(27:23):
And then you opened up to uhdealing with with the US.
Um, I imagine that it's hard tostay in just one of the
businesses or one one of the uhthe countries, because I mean
Punchmark, we do we we serviceretailers in in Canada as well.
Uh are you finding that you haveto create different products
(27:44):
that cater to you know Canadaversus the US?
Or is it more about the serviceaspect of things?
SPEAKER_00 (27:50):
Well, the key is the service.
So the um so let's say uh theNorth Star, let's put it that
way, is always about customerexperience, customer service,
customer experience, uh makingthe customer happy on 99% of any
touch point.
Okay, that's the key.
(28:12):
Now, the difference is Canadaand yours is two different
markets, right?
Now, yes, we're neighbors andall that stuff, right?
But like we're 40 millionpopulation, you guys are 350
million population, right?
So there's a humongousdifference in um in business
potential, right?
We're very successful in Canada,we've been in business for 45
(28:34):
years in Canada, right?
Versus about 10 years in the US.
So we had no choice to expand tothe US because at some point you
basically plateau in Canada,right?
So we plateaued, and uhpersonally for me was a
challenge to the US because it'ssomething that we weren't doing
before, right?
So it allowed me to make my ownmark, for example, you know, so
(28:56):
it gave me that opportunity tosay that hey, yes, uh, you
succeeded, you create a greatcompany, but you didn't get into
the US.
So now this is how I'm gonnacreate my room and my let's say
reputation and my everythingthat comes with uh the things
that you want to prove toyourself and to the people
around you almost, right?
(29:16):
Yeah, there's a lot of that.
So right now I would say that myUS business represents more than
50% of my Canadian business.
So it's very fast and doesn'tstop, it's like it's not
stopping, like, and there's noreason to stop.
Like we want to take it to asfar as we can while we're
enjoying the process, so I willnot burn myself or people around
(29:40):
me for the sake of growing mycompany as long as the process
is enjoyable, and we the stressthat comes with the job is a
stress we're willing to acceptand pay, then we're gonna go,
you know, and we still have alot left in us, right?
Yeah, but I mean, there's also afine line that, like, it's Not
the pursuit of money, it's morea pursuit of the opportunity
(30:03):
we're given.
And let's just see how far wecan go.
SPEAKER_02 (30:06):
Absolutely.
And but I also, I mean, you'reyou're saying it's a price we're
willing to pay just on thenotion of price.
Um, how are the changing tariffsuh impacting you, especially for
Canada?
Because, for example, uh my mytown relies a lot on Canadian um
visitors, and this year we arevery much hurting.
(30:28):
Uh, the population was or uh thethe count of visitors was way
down.
We were seeing at some points umlike a 60% uh decrease in
visitors from Canada.
And there's one that we have arugby tournament uh that is
called Can Am.
And this year it was just Am.
(30:50):
There was not a single Canadianuh team, and it is partially
because of the raise risingcosts in in visas and rising
costs in uh just like notfeeling as as welcome to come
across.
Are you feeling any of that?
Because if America isrepresenting more than 50% of
your business, but you are basedout of Canada, are you finding
(31:14):
that this these in these tariffsare actually or I guess changing
relationships between the US andCanada are going to impact more
than 50% of your business aswell?
SPEAKER_00 (31:25):
So uh to begin with, uh, the way this whole tariff
started early in the year,right, uh was very alarming,
okay, because there was noclarity to the situation.
So it was very like vague, anduh nobody really knew uh what
the hell was being discussed oruh what was the path forward,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (31:44):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (31:45):
So uh in our particular category, not
necessarily because we're inwedding bands, but 100% of what
we produce is made in Canada,right?
Uh we fall within the FuzumaAgreement, which is what
replaced the NAFTA.
Okay, so that agreement is isstill in place until uh next
(32:09):
year, which uh the US and Canadastarted the renegotiation
process very like not too longago.
So they identified points thatneed to be uh renegotiated on
both parts, whatever.
But for the current moment, Iwas not hit with any tariffs.
So my product category that uh Iknow that the US uh imposed
(32:33):
tariffs on a lot of uh othercountries, Canada included,
right?
But the difference between usand those other countries is we
still have that narrow freetrade agreement where certain
things are fall within line,right?
And those are tariff free.
So that kind of saved us.
It would have been a disaster.
I'm not gonna lie to you.
(32:54):
I would have definitely gave uhwhether a company or your
customers love you, whether theyuh respect the work you do.
I can never expect anybody topay more just because I they
think I'm a nice guy, you know.
So you understand?
Yes, everybody's there to dowhat's best for them as a
company.
(33:14):
Business is business, look,because if they pay more to me,
the their customers paying more,they're still more expensive,
and they're losing theircompetitor advantage, right?
So not that would have missedlike there's a reality that
people will do what's in theirbest interest, and that's the
reality we're in.
Now it came close.
Thank god.
(33:34):
Uh nothing was really affectedinto in terms of my business.
Now, is there stuff that wedon't know about in terms of uh
maybe there's certain customersthat prefer to work with
American companies?
Perfectly fine.
I can't blame anybody for makingthat decision if they want to
support their economy, great.
I know that's a sentiment thatthat some Canadians have, but I
(33:59):
don't think that's somethingthat's gonna reunite our
countries because we've had agreat relationship for uh very
long time.
Very long time, you know.
A lot of Canadians uh go to theUS all the time for their
vacation destinations, and sameas much as Americans come to
Canada, right?
So hopefully it's something thatcan be resolved in the near
future where there can be commonground found where things can go
(34:23):
back to as much of a normal aspossible, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (34:28):
I agree.
It's something that it's um Ifound it very troubling because,
like I said, you know, aboutthis this rugby tournament or
even just in general, we are soclose to the Canadian border
that I find that we have like uma flavor of of Canada here all
the time.
And it we're so s so close thatthe relationship was always uh
(34:50):
feeling like it was going bothways.
And to see that they're not heredefinitely um very saddening.
But at the same time, I guess Ialso wanted to ask about um, and
also I always mention thiswhenever we would discuss
tariffs, they're very much opento changing.
We're recording this on October7th, 2025.
So make sure you stamp that.
(35:12):
But the one thing I'll ask aboutis the other big change that's
happening in the jewelryindustry is the price of gold is
still going up.
I've I've done this uh episodeso many times where I'm like,
hey, the price of gold is theall-time high, and then it's
like the next time I do it, oh,it's still the all-time high.
How is this affecting yourbusiness?
(35:32):
Being woven, uh woven bandsprimarily, and just uh you guys
do um weave with different typesof metals.
Is the price of gold increasinginterest in non-gold uh alloys,
or are you finding that gold isbeing seen as like an investment
metal and you're just people areyou know getting into it
(35:53):
regardless of the cost?
SPEAKER_00 (35:55):
A little bit of everything, Michael.
It's there's a lot of differentthings going on, right?
So so uh obviously for anymanufacturer, any manufacturer,
uh when your cost of um materialgoes up, it's never a positive
thing, you know, never, never,never because uh you uh you you
want stability, whatever theprice is, as long as it's stable
(36:16):
or as stable as it can be.
So definitely what we've seenthis year, like roughly 50% more
expensive than last year, or ina year-to-year comparison, uh,
is uh you have to be much morecareful, like you gotta control
your loss in terms ofmanufacturing.
You want to get paid uh quickerto basically uh so like you
(36:38):
don't have to rely on thefinancing continuously, right?
Yes, and the risk, you're takingbigger risks in terms of uh an
average order is more expensiveand all those things, right?
So it a little order costs muchmore for your customer, right?
But the reality is this thereality, the real reality, yes,
(36:58):
there's concerns, yes, there'sthings we need to do to adapt,
but what are you gonna do aboutit?
What are you gonna do about it?
Like it's going up, it's goingup.
It's like do I it's going up foreverybody, too.
SPEAKER_02 (37:08):
It's not like it's just going up for you.
SPEAKER_00 (37:10):
Do I want to go back to more reasonable pricing?
Absolutely.
But while we're here, we'regonna do what we have to do.
So, which is like no, no, notmake excuses and uh and go
forward.
So do we sell a lot of mixedmetals, we sell a lot of
products where we use less goldand more other types of
materials like carbon fiber,tantalum, and so on.
(37:34):
So the customer still is able toget that uh precious metal, and
while getting the innovative,the different black, gray look,
which they like a lot, right?
So that's one way of looking atit.
The surprising way of looking atit is since gold went up and is
going up, uh, the shift toyellow gold.
(37:54):
So since like now it's become aprestige, uh like some sort of a
like it's like a statementalmost when you're wanting
yellow gold right now.
It's not like it's it's it'sgold.
If you're wearing white, itcould be what silver, it could
be anything, it could bealternative.
It's hard to identify for theon-trained eye, but like uh the
yellow gold is skyrocketing,skyrocketing skyrocketing as a
(38:16):
status symbol or like a uh Ithink so.
I think it's a status symbol.
I think uh if you look at allthe fashion brands, uh yes,
yeah, yellow is you're gonna seeyellow, yellow, yellow.
So it started this like fiveyears ago.
You can notice the big brandspushing yellow, right?
And that's the time it takes tofor it to kind of do the switch
(38:37):
in other areas.
Look, it's concerning, Michael,but it hasn't slowed us down in
any way, shape, or form.
SPEAKER_02 (38:44):
Well, I love that.
I'm glad that you guys are stillpushing on.
And like I was saying, the priceof gold is up for literally
everybody, and what are yougonna do?
But I love to hear that you guysare still finding ways to adapt.
SPEAKER_00 (38:56):
The moment you accept any excuse, then
everything is an excuse.
You understand?
So like it is what it is, youjust do what you have to do.
Yeah, that's it.
SPEAKER_02 (39:06):
Now, Tony, as we wrap this thing up, uh, I wanted
to ask, I always ask vendors,can you tease anything that you
guys are working on?
Are you able to like a little inthe loop exclusive?
Are you able to people thatmight have your products
already?
Are you able to um uh you knowsay what you might be working on
or coming out with for next yearif that's how far out you're
(39:29):
planning?
SPEAKER_00 (39:30):
Well, definitely right now, everything is that we
do is for next year.
Okay, so uh, you know, where weare in the year right now,
October 7th, like you mentioned,it's not the time to uh uh to do
anything short term, it's reallythe long term we're looking at.
So obviously, uh I can see a fewthings.
Yeah, number one, we're reallylooking at uh uh big uh leaps in
(39:51):
technology on how we can assistour customers.
So we believe that with with AI,with everything that's going on
in the world right now, it'slike we're questioning how do we
incorporate more of that inserving our customers.
So that's like an area of uhfocus, right?
And uh we definitely have acouple uh big launches coming
next year for products, but thatI'll keep uh in the back pocket
(40:16):
for the moment, you know, forsure.
And announce it when it's reallyuh when I won't put anybody in
too much trouble announcing it.
So, but I mean, and we neverstop, we never stop with the
ideas, uh and uh that's a goodthing.
That's a good thing, that's whywe're having so much fun.
SPEAKER_02 (40:33):
Awesome.
I love hearing that you guys arestill innovating.
I mean, your guys' company hasbeen around for uh for a fair
amount of time, and the fact youguys are still finding ways to
uh to come out with new productsis super cool.
You guys do seem to be makingsomething that is very uh very
different than what's on themarket, and I find that very
inspiring and something that Ithat caught my eye, and one of
the reasons why I wanted toreach out to you guys for uh for
(40:54):
an interview.
So I really appreciate yourtime, Tony.
Um, if people are interested inin learning more about Malo
Bands, uh, where should they goto learn more?
SPEAKER_00 (41:03):
Well, uh they can go to uh www.mallowbands.com.
So that will give them a good uhoverview of what we do and what
we offer, right?
And if uh there's anything uhelse than that, obviously we do
12 shows a year, we're not hardto find.
Yeah, uh, you might you can youwill see us as many places as
(41:26):
possible.
We try to put ourselves uh inthe right places, and uh we're
if anything, we're very open tohave any conversation.
You know, it's not really aboutuh we can even if we realize
that we're not a good partner, agood fit in terms of business.
Uh for me, just talking topeople and learning about them
and their uh what's important tothem.
(41:47):
So we're easy to talk to.
You can find us on our websiteat the shows.
Easy to find.
SPEAKER_02 (41:52):
Amazing.
And everybody, if you do that,make sure you let them know that
in the loop sent you.
It definitely makes us lookgood.
And uh, I really appreciate yourtime, Tony.
This has been super cool.
I love hearing that you guys arealways innovating.
Uh, I appreciate your time.
Thank you, Michael.
All right, thanks, everybody.
We'll be back next week,Tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers, bye.
(42:17):
All right, everybody.
That's another show.
Thanks so much for listening.
This week, my guest was Tonyfrom Malo Bands.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, Michael Burpo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cochran.
Don't forget to leave thepodcast a five-star rating on
Spotify and Apple Podcasts, andleave us feedback on
(42:39):
punchmark.com slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks, and we'll be back nextweek Tuesday with another
episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
Welcome to In the Loop.
What is up, everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
This week I have on Tony fromMalo Bands.
And Malo is one of those jewelrybrands that I've been taking a
look at because of their uniquestyle, and I feel like their
(00:21):
design really stands out and isvery different than a lot of the
work that's on the market rightnow.
And I think that's reallyexciting.
They have these like wovenbands, and I think that they are
really pretty cool.
And I speak with Tony about thehistory of their brand, what
they're working on, and how theydevelop relationships with uh
new retailers.
It's a cool conversation.
(00:42):
I hope you enjoy.
SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the
jewelry industry's favoritewebsite platform and digital
growth agency.
Our mission reaches way beyondtechnology.
With decades of experience andlong-lasting industry
relationships, Punchmark enablesjewelry businesses to flourish
in any marketplace.
We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have
(01:10):
been friends way before becomingclients.
Punchmark's own success comesfrom the fact that we have a
much deeper need and obligationto help our friends succeed.
Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
business growth, or campaignsthat drive traffic and sales,
Punchmark's website andmarketing services were made
just for you.
It's never too late to transformyour business and stitch
(01:32):
together your digital andphysical worlds in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmark.com slash go.
And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_02 (01:58):
How about you?
So well.
I'm really excited to get achance to speak with you.
You're one of our premiumvendors, and uh your work really
stands out to me.
I think it's really uh somebeautiful work.
What in my eyes, when I think ofMalo, I think of uh these woven
bands.
And I was doing some researchabout you guys and trying to
find out like some history andand and things like that.
(02:19):
When you talk about uh yourcompany, how do you sort of set
the scene and introduce it inwhat you do?
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
Um so the way we see ourselves is uh see ourselves.
So obviously, we got startedwith the uh with the handhoven
bands.
That was really the uh how wegot our foot in the door in
terms of wedding bands, right?
So that really set us up uh withsuccess off right off the gate,
(02:47):
and it allowed us to work with alot of customers that uh taught
us a lot in the meantime, right?
Like big volume users.
So we were much less uh at thetime we used to be uh
distributing our products mostlythrough uh big majors or uh
distributors, so we had less ofa working relationship with
(03:09):
independent jewelry stores wasthrough major change stores, so
across North America, right?
So that was that was thebeginning, right?
So and then the company evolved.
Obviously, uh handholds on bandshad a great run, like we had a
good uh decade to maybe uh 15years of those bands being super
(03:29):
super uh uh popular.
Obviously, with uh CNCs andtechnology coming into play, uh
things evolved.
And uh in the mid-90s,technology in terms of wedding
my production was still at theearly stage, right?
Everything was done much more ina manual manner, you know.
So the auto the full automateduh technology came, was
(03:52):
available early 2000s, late 90s,and then until that becomes
implemented and uh andavailable, right?
It takes some time.
So when dot technology came in,Michael, that's when like we uh
started off with the first basicCNC's basic CNCs, then we uh
started working with thoselearning how to use technology.
(04:12):
So we went from being fullcraft, like what everything was
done completely manually, to uhtransitioning into uh machinery,
and it's not like we knew muchabout it, to be quite honest.
It was really this is where thefuture is.
Like uh we see uh laborshortages and all those things,
right?
Yeah, scaling problems.
(04:33):
So uh my father, Habib, whichfounded the company, uh uh like
in terms of passion, uhmachinery was always like his uh
um his thing, you know, whetherwhether it meant that it's stuff
that works for us or not.
Like anytime we went to tradeshows when I was a kid, because
(04:54):
he brought me around uh like asbasically his bag man to carry
his bags and stuff too, and wewould like spend more time on
the machinery section than thethe actual uh jewelry section,
right?
Yeah, so kind of like we havethat uh like he transferred that
to me and to my brother,obviously, always having the eye
open on evolving and getting thenewest technology in, right?
(05:16):
But at that time, he was one ofthe first ones that really
understood where the marketcould be.
And in North America, basicallyjewelry manufacturing has hit uh
like it's nothing close to whatit was, right?
So if we hadn't evolved quicklyenough at that time, we wouldn't
be nowhere near where we aretoday as a company.
(05:37):
So we're definitely a companythat believes in technology and
in uh being able to adaptyourself to the trends, you
know, to the market trends, andcontinuously uh bring to the
customers, to our customers, andto the consumers, what we
believe uh the latest trendsshould be.
So it's not necessarily about uhwhat's available in the market,
(05:59):
it's looking at outside theindustry, what works, what do
you see in the fashion industry,what colors are being used in
terms of materials, you know,which materials are available in
our type of production that wecan like get inspired from and
then apply it to wedding bands.
So it's really uh definitely uhmore than a full-time job, let's
(06:22):
put it that way.
So it's like it's likedesigning, uh, consulting, uh, a
lot of research.
That's and it's it's really fun.
It's like it's like there's noboring moment, or there's no
moment where like it there'salways something to do, there's
always preparation, learning,uh, trial and error, RD.
(06:43):
So I can't complain.
I've got a great job, I have agreat passion for it, and uh
from the customer's point ofview, I think we're doing pretty
good.
SPEAKER_02 (06:53):
So yeah, sounds amazing.
And I've definitely been reallyimpressed by uh by the work that
you guys have produced.
It's really fascinating thatswitch from the handmade and
handcrafted aspect to usingmachinery and and and kind of
catching up because that's theone thing that I've found to be
increasingly uh prominent andpre and um important for a
(07:16):
company is like if you are youonly have a limit to how fast
your hands can move, and ifyou're doing everything by hand,
suddenly it's just a matter ofselling your time and and having
a one-to-one value for yourtime, and you just have to
assign the dollar amount to it.
But when you start introducingmachinery, it sounds like your
your father Habib was uh yeah,uh is it a machinist?
(07:39):
Yeah, really ahead of his team.
SPEAKER_00 (07:40):
He was far from being a machinist, he was far
from being a machinist, far fromit.
More uh understandingopportunity, right?
Understanding the value ofopportunity, and that uh if you
don't uh look at different waysof doing things, you're always
stuck within a certain limit ofwhat you're capable of uh of
(08:01):
delivering.
And uh it was a passion, likeit's a true passion, like it's
there's no other way to describeit.
Like you really have to be therein those times to see uh the
investments made and the waythat uh uh whether you
understand it or not, the beliefin yourself that you'll find the
right people uh that willunderstand it.
(08:22):
So, like you know, there's adifference between being a
visionary and being like anexecutionary, right?
Yeah, completely two differentroles, right?
First, you gotta like understandthat this is the direction I'm
going, and then somehow you findthe people that uh can help you
get there.
So um it's big shoes to fail,but we're trying to do our best.
SPEAKER_02 (08:41):
Yeah, and if you don't mind me asking, is is your
father still involved with thecompany or has he uh fully
stepped away?
SPEAKER_00 (08:49):
You can't fully step away.
Fully stepping away is like uhuh what does that really mean,
right?
Like when you've been doing thisas your whole life, right?
What you want is uh number one,the moment he realized that he
had given us everything heneeded to give us, and that
after this after this moment onwe had to fly under our wings to
(09:14):
learn and to grow as a person,he established that very early
on that uh he gave us thetraining necessary, and after
that it was upon us to take itto the next level because uh he
did what he did.
Yeah, you understand?
I dare now he's at a point whereit's more a mentorship role
where we pick and choose when togo to see him on various topics
(09:35):
to see.
SPEAKER_02 (09:36):
I can only imagine, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (09:38):
You have a uh you have the best mentor you can
ever ask for, you have somethingsomebody that people would pay
big money to have access to,right?
Yeah, so and even at then youmight not even find somebody
that has that experience.
So for me and my brothers reallyuh doing what we think is best,
and uh, but whenever you havethat internal uh lack of clarity
(10:03):
and you just want somebody toguide you in the right
direction, that's what that'swhere he steps in and tells us
great, bad, don't even thinkabout it.
Uh we've done this X amount ofyears ago, it didn't work
because XYZ reason.
So uh it's it's something thatuh we're grateful to be in a
position to have uh to guide usin the right direction.
(10:25):
That's really where he is rightnow.
And obviously, uh he lovesVegas.
Vegas is like uh the only showhe'll attend almost, right?
Yeah, he'll definitely be there.
So a lot of his friends arethere, you know, on the vendor
side, people that he worked withfor years and years and years.
So when I see them together ateither our boot or their boot,
(10:47):
just hearing the stories, youknow, just hearing the stories,
yeah, on how it was back in theday, and uh how our generation
doesn't understand anything.
SPEAKER_02 (10:55):
I don't understand it all.
But that's a really cool it'scool that you uh still keep that
relationship open with him, butalso seem to be fully in the
driver's seat.
But I also sounds like uhthere's this decision that has
to be made by every um vendor,is that you have to decide are
you going to are you gonna gofor take over the world?
(11:17):
Are you gonna try to have asmany retailer uh carrying your
product as possible?
Or is it about dominating for acouple of retailers and really
deepening those connections?
Is that something you've had tokind of decide amongst yourself?
Because in the end, you are likeyou said, a two-person
operation.
Is it oh, we need to scale andexpand and bring on more people
(11:40):
and and uh and and have ahundred or five hundred more
retailers carrying our products,or is it like okay, we're going
to we have our base, we need tojust expand our offerings, and
then the rest will follow?
SPEAKER_00 (11:54):
So, you know, that's like such a good question
because uh that's a questionthat uh kind of time, a question
that you can only answer withtime.
Okay, so initially, uh there's alot of figuring out at the early
stages of growth, right?
Where what's your valueproposition?
(12:14):
How many uh what's the bestmarket segment that uh uh that
can really can benefit from thetype of product and services you
offer, right?
So initially it was uh we didn'treally know.
So I'm not gonna lie, initiallyit was really uh the uh ambition
to go forward and that the theconfidence that we'll figure it
(12:37):
out as we uh have conversations,right?
So the first few years when wereally expanded in the US, I
would say it was tough, really,really tough, okay, because uh
we're coming with a certainattitude in terms of we're
really successful in Canada.
Now the question is uh how doesthat translate to a new market,
(12:58):
right?
Yes, we're neighbors, you'reyes, everything is very similar,
but I mean there's a lot morecompetition, and things are a
little different, expectationsare different, uh, like you
know, like it's around theclock, answers today.
There's not so there was alittle uh moment where we had to
reinfind ourselves, right?
So the plan that we started offwith uh 10 years ago is far from
(13:22):
being where we are today.
So initially I thought thatgoing super narrow, super niche,
yes, would be uh the way to go.
Uh, because I felt that like alot of the categories that uh we
could do well was already donewell uh with other companies in
the US.
So I'm like, why fight a battlewhere it's it's it's like you're
(13:44):
fighting for a better price, oryou can't really bring enough
innovation to the to thepicture, right?
So yeah, that was the initialmindset.
So at that moment, we led withour more unique products.
That was the products that we wefelt that uh our passion for
creating uh spectacular pieceswould translate into sales.
(14:08):
We learned real quick that yes,we had a lot of attention given
to those lines.
We were relatively successful inplacing products within the
limitations we had in terms ofuh salespeople and uh people
that know us.
So in the beginning, nobodyknows you, so the first few
years is just like showing yourface and grinding, right?
(14:30):
Until they recognize you andthey give you an opportunity.
But then what we realized waswhich is really the key, the key
is what looks great doesn'tnecessarily translate in sales.
So when you really createsomething beautiful and unique,
the amount of people that willappreciate that piece, you
(14:50):
really narrow down thatcustomer, right?
So so that's not what that werealize.
That's on like we spent so manyyears developing that, pushing
that, selling that to come to arealization that those are great
conversation starters, butthey're not what's gonna make
you uh scale your business,yeah.
Okay, so that took us like fouror five years to realize, to be
(15:13):
honest.
Then what we realized was uhwhen you're when you want to
scale in terms of production,all the challenges that come
with scaling, right?
So the way orders are processed,how many people can have the
skill set necessary to createthose art pieces, right?
So there was kind of a wholetransformation that needed to
(15:34):
happen within our company toreally understand that, like,
it's not about what we can do,is what is the smartest decision
to take on long-term.
Uh, like if I look at it longterm, how do I predict problems
that I know I will have and howdo I eliminate that problem
before I even have it, right?
So that's when we made thecomplete shift in uh
(15:57):
understanding few points, whichthe only way to understand what
we would the decisions we tookwas uh listening to customers.
So you know when you're not whenyou're going to shows, when
you're doing all these things,right?
What happens is uh you have theopportunity to live to to face
(16:18):
customers, yes.
So even though you don't comehome with sales in the early
years, what you did have wasrejection, which made you uh ask
yourself serious questions, yes.
Why I'm not doing why what I'mnot succeeding in all the
things, why didn't they wantthis?
SPEAKER_02 (16:33):
Why didn't they like it?
SPEAKER_00 (16:34):
Yeah, so you have your notes.
Then over the years, uh, whenyou hear the same pain points
from the customers, and yourealize it's not like singular
to one person, it's like theseis these are the majority of the
problems that business ownersare facing at the retail side,
right?
I agree.
So when we had heard enough ofthose, it was pretty evident
(16:56):
that uh you we had to number oneoffer extreme levels of
customization.
So customization is reallylacking in the marketplace at
the time.
Now it evolved, it had no choiceto evolve, right?
Yes, but if I go back a decade,people weren't really offering
that because it created a lot ofmanufacturing complications,
(17:17):
right?
Which for us it was more problembecause we were used to working
in a very uh high-paced,high-paced environment in terms
so for each it was just aboutlike how do we just make this
happen?
Like, we're used to chaos, howdo we make organized chaos?
You know, so how do we just makebetter work orders?
(17:39):
So, my I have to give it mystaff was very good at adapting,
like they were very good atadapting on the fly, on the fly,
and we had to improve quickmeanings, and then it got things
got implemented real quick,right?
So, customization was key.
Second thing was how do youcreate tools?
So we understood the pinpoint ofthe retailers, which was much
(18:00):
more service-driven than productdriven.
So, what we learned was yes, youneed to innovate, yes, we need
to come with better product anduh and basically be ahead of the
curve in terms of where thetrends will go, which you have
do your ways of identifyingthose things, you know.
(18:21):
It's not like it's not rocketscience, like we're not
launching satellites, yeah.
So, uh, by just watching uhmen's fashion, by just watching
other industries, uh uh what doyou see on athletes one day uh
doing interviews, what type ofjewelry they're wearing, you
just have to have the eye, youknow.
(18:42):
You have to have the eye toidentify like where things are
going, right?
Uh, so that wasn't the hardpart.
The hard part was reallyunderstanding the customer.
So it was about customation,service, uh, as many tools as
they can get to do their jobwith minimal uh waste of time.
(19:03):
So, you know, we realize that uhif the salesperson has a
problem, they have to go see themanager, the manager has to call
the factory.
Then the factory and customerservice agent might not know the
answer, so they have to go see amanager.
So we look at the process ofgetting the right answer to the
to the decision to the personthat needs it, and we realize
(19:24):
there's so many layers thatbasically it's impossible to
scale, and there's no way thatyou can keep your customer happy
with those methods because ifyou have a customer in front of
you and you're working with acustomer, you need the answer
right now.
Yeah, like 10 minutes is alreadytoo late, maybe.
Because if the guy left thestore, good luck calling him,
(19:44):
good luck bringing him back.
Like, you know, you gotta beatthe iron when it's hot, right?
So then we put all our energy inbuilding a B2B tool where 90% of
the bulk, the daily demands canjust be available, automated,
and a click of a button, right?
And that's when everythingchanged.
(20:05):
That's really when everythingchanged, is when we were able to
uh showcase how uh what you havecurrently, you're not stuck with
that.
There's a better way, you know.
There's a better way where yourstaff uh will be much more
motivated to uh to work with thejewelry store owners to sell
(20:27):
more when they have the tools.
So and we're still figuring itout, but right now it's all
about service, it's all aboutlike just it's not very hard,
Michael.
We add the question we askourselves is the following if I
was a jewelry store, what wouldI want as a tool?
And if I was a jewelry store,what would I need as as support?
(20:51):
So those are the questions weask ourselves, and if you can
answer that, you kind of likehow do I want to be treated?
What's what would I accept?
How so that's our basis ofcoming to a decision?
If I want to accept this, thisas whatever it is, it can never
be presented to a customerbasically.
(21:12):
So uh, and we're figuring it outright now as well.
Like it's it's a not it's acontinuous improvement,
continuous improvement.
SPEAKER_02 (21:18):
It sounds really interesting to like a conundrum
to kind of wrap your headaround, and it's cool that
you're taking a uh the approachof listening to your clients.
It's something that I do userexperience uh punchmark, and
user experience is all about umyeah, finding out exactly all
those things that you just said.
What is it that the customerwants?
(21:39):
What is it that a client woulduh accept without you know being
a turnoff to them or send themaway?
And I'm totally with you.
I part of the reason why I go tojewelry shows is not because of
my you know amazing skills atselling, that's not why they do
have salespeople for that.
What it actually is is I go andI hear what are the pain points
(22:03):
and what is it that we're notoffering?
What are they asking about thatwe don't have an answer to yet?
And when you start listening forthat kind of way, it's almost
like a sieve.
Instead of uh catching thewater, you're trying to catch
what is not in the water, andsuddenly it just turns the the
problem on its head, andsuddenly you're finding the the
things you don't have the answerto.
It's very interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (22:24):
It's the only way, Michael, because look, uh when
you realize that makingdecisions in an office with
people that are not connected toreality is gonna mostly uh omit
huge portions of the things thatactually matter.
So decisions mean in a in aboardroom is gonna be
(22:47):
profit-driven, it's gonna becost cutting driven, it's gonna
be this driven, that driven,right?
So that's what the role of thosepeople are.
But when when it comes to thepoint of making an impact in the
in in in in jewelry stores livesor day-to-day activities, that
will never work.
(23:08):
Never work because the theintangibles that you can't think
about, you can never figure itout if you're not either living
in.
(23:50):
So he might only have X amountthat's available for your
category, right?
So, how do I serve thatcustomer?
You know, then you have thecomplete opposite.
You have a store that has sixthousand square foot.
No, it's like, how do I how canI offer something to this guy
that have a completely differentneed than this guy?
The six thousand square footjewelry store doesn't need uh uh
(24:12):
every single skew, every singlecategory, it might only need
best sellers, right?
Just best sellers, withoffering.
This guy might need every singlething that exists, right?
So, how do you know that bybeing in the jewelry store?
Even the shows aren't goodenough for that.
You gotta be at the shows, yougotta be in the jewelry stores,
you gotta do your analysis athome.
(24:34):
It's a combination of things,and uh, that's the beauty,
that's the beauty of uh beinghands-on.
SPEAKER_02 (24:40):
That's so cool that you're doing that.
It's really uh I don't hearenough about vendors making
those those trips, but the factthat you're you're investing in
uh actually attending and likegoing into a uh a jewelry store
is so cool.
Um, I wonder I wonder if morevendors should be doing that.
It sounds like hearing, youknow, experiencing firsthand
(25:04):
what we in the UX world we callthem user interviews, and we
also call them um in situationaluser interviews.
Sometimes you when you do theseinterviews, a lot of times we
were instructed in school thathey, you should try to go to
their uh place of use.
And so it'd be like, hey, ifthey're using this tool in their
commute, you should go andcontact someone and ask if you
(25:27):
could ride with them on theircommute and see how often are
they picking it up, how oftenare they doing it.
But hearing that you're you'reseeing the differences in, for
example, uh you know, a smallstore versus a big store versus
maybe like a city store versusan uh a different one.
That sounds really quite cool.
SPEAKER_00 (25:47):
Well, Mike, it's it's about uh broadening your
under your overallunderstanding.
It's not about like one thing orit's everything, it's being in
the environment, you know, andwhat and the environment, like
there you're always gonna comeup a better person.
Whether something went wrong,it's good.
Whether something went well,it's good, everything is good,
you know.
(26:08):
Like whether your flat gotdelayed, it teaches you patience
and don't uh stress over thingsyou can't control.
You understand?
So when you look at it, it it'sthe whole everything that comes
with is great, you know.
It you get to uh see what thesales rep does, you know what I
mean?
You get to see their job.
SPEAKER_02 (26:26):
How are they pitching it?
SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
Five hours between stores, and you understand that
there's a certain respect togive to that uh job as well, you
know.
Absolutely.
So it's it's a whole package,it's a whole package, and um I'm
sure a lot of successful jewelrycompanies do it, you know.
Like I'm definitely not the onlyone.
Uh I thought maybe thedifference is I enjoy doing it,
(26:48):
you know.
Maybe I can say for sure.
Yeah, if I can if I can do showsand do only shows, I'd be a very
happy person.
Just like that.
Come yeah, the time you spendwith the customers, with the
vendors, it's just a great time.
Great time.
SPEAKER_02 (27:02):
What about this, Tony?
So you guys are based out of outof Canada.
Um, I'm actually just right, uh,I'm about 45 minutes from the
border um from Montreal.
Uh what is the the difference?
Do you are you doing you werementioning how you were
primarily heavily invested indoing business in in Canada and
and primarily serving there?
(27:23):
And then you opened up to uhdealing with with the US.
Um, I imagine that it's hard tostay in just one of the
businesses or one one of the uhthe countries, because I mean
Punchmark, we do we we serviceretailers in in Canada as well.
Uh are you finding that you haveto create different products
(27:44):
that cater to you know Canadaversus the US?
Or is it more about the serviceaspect of things?
SPEAKER_00 (27:50):
Well, the key is the service.
So the um so let's say uh theNorth Star, let's put it that
way, is always about customerexperience, customer service,
customer experience, uh makingthe customer happy on 99% of any
touch point.
Okay, that's the key.
(28:12):
Now, the difference is Canadaand yours is two different
markets, right?
Now, yes, we're neighbors andall that stuff, right?
But like we're 40 millionpopulation, you guys are 350
million population, right?
So there's a humongousdifference in um in business
potential, right?
We're very successful in Canada,we've been in business for 45
(28:34):
years in Canada, right?
Versus about 10 years in the US.
So we had no choice to expand tothe US because at some point you
basically plateau in Canada,right?
So we plateaued, and uhpersonally for me was a
challenge to the US because it'ssomething that we weren't doing
before, right?
So it allowed me to make my ownmark, for example, you know, so
(28:56):
it gave me that opportunity tosay that hey, yes, uh, you
succeeded, you create a greatcompany, but you didn't get into
the US.
So now this is how I'm gonnacreate my room and my let's say
reputation and my everythingthat comes with uh the things
that you want to prove toyourself and to the people
around you almost, right?
(29:16):
Yeah, there's a lot of that.
So right now I would say that myUS business represents more than
50% of my Canadian business.
So it's very fast and doesn'tstop, it's like it's not
stopping, like, and there's noreason to stop.
Like we want to take it to asfar as we can while we're
enjoying the process, so I willnot burn myself or people around
(29:40):
me for the sake of growing mycompany as long as the process
is enjoyable, and we the stressthat comes with the job is a
stress we're willing to acceptand pay, then we're gonna go,
you know, and we still have alot left in us, right?
Yeah, but I mean, there's also afine line that, like, it's Not
the pursuit of money, it's morea pursuit of the opportunity
(30:03):
we're given.
And let's just see how far wecan go.
SPEAKER_02 (30:06):
Absolutely.
And but I also, I mean, you'reyou're saying it's a price we're
willing to pay just on thenotion of price.
Um, how are the changing tariffsuh impacting you, especially for
Canada?
Because, for example, uh my mytown relies a lot on Canadian um
visitors, and this year we arevery much hurting.
(30:28):
Uh, the population was or uh thethe count of visitors was way
down.
We were seeing at some points umlike a 60% uh decrease in
visitors from Canada.
And there's one that we have arugby tournament uh that is
called Can Am.
And this year it was just Am.
(30:50):
There was not a single Canadianuh team, and it is partially
because of the raise risingcosts in in visas and rising
costs in uh just like notfeeling as as welcome to come
across.
Are you feeling any of that?
Because if America isrepresenting more than 50% of
your business, but you are basedout of Canada, are you finding
(31:14):
that this these in these tariffsare actually or I guess changing
relationships between the US andCanada are going to impact more
than 50% of your business aswell?
SPEAKER_00 (31:25):
So uh to begin with, uh, the way this whole tariff
started early in the year,right, uh was very alarming,
okay, because there was noclarity to the situation.
So it was very like vague, anduh nobody really knew uh what
the hell was being discussed oruh what was the path forward,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (31:44):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (31:45):
So uh in our particular category, not
necessarily because we're inwedding bands, but 100% of what
we produce is made in Canada,right?
Uh we fall within the FuzumaAgreement, which is what
replaced the NAFTA.
Okay, so that agreement is isstill in place until uh next
(32:09):
year, which uh the US and Canadastarted the renegotiation
process very like not too longago.
So they identified points thatneed to be uh renegotiated on
both parts, whatever.
But for the current moment, Iwas not hit with any tariffs.
So my product category that uh Iknow that the US uh imposed
(32:33):
tariffs on a lot of uh othercountries, Canada included,
right?
But the difference between usand those other countries is we
still have that narrow freetrade agreement where certain
things are fall within line,right?
And those are tariff free.
So that kind of saved us.
It would have been a disaster.
I'm not gonna lie to you.
(32:54):
I would have definitely gave uhwhether a company or your
customers love you, whether theyuh respect the work you do.
I can never expect anybody topay more just because I they
think I'm a nice guy, you know.
So you understand?
Yes, everybody's there to dowhat's best for them as a
company.
(33:14):
Business is business, look,because if they pay more to me,
the their customers paying more,they're still more expensive,
and they're losing theircompetitor advantage, right?
So not that would have missedlike there's a reality that
people will do what's in theirbest interest, and that's the
reality we're in.
Now it came close.
Thank god.
(33:34):
Uh nothing was really affectedinto in terms of my business.
Now, is there stuff that wedon't know about in terms of uh
maybe there's certain customersthat prefer to work with
American companies?
Perfectly fine.
I can't blame anybody for makingthat decision if they want to
support their economy, great.
I know that's a sentiment thatthat some Canadians have, but I
(33:59):
don't think that's somethingthat's gonna reunite our
countries because we've had agreat relationship for uh very
long time.
Very long time, you know.
A lot of Canadians uh go to theUS all the time for their
vacation destinations, and sameas much as Americans come to
Canada, right?
So hopefully it's something thatcan be resolved in the near
future where there can be commonground found where things can go
(34:23):
back to as much of a normal aspossible, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (34:28):
I agree.
It's something that it's um Ifound it very troubling because,
like I said, you know, aboutthis this rugby tournament or
even just in general, we are soclose to the Canadian border
that I find that we have like uma flavor of of Canada here all
the time.
And it we're so s so close thatthe relationship was always uh
(34:50):
feeling like it was going bothways.
And to see that they're not heredefinitely um very saddening.
But at the same time, I guess Ialso wanted to ask about um, and
also I always mention thiswhenever we would discuss
tariffs, they're very much opento changing.
We're recording this on October7th, 2025.
So make sure you stamp that.
(35:12):
But the one thing I'll ask aboutis the other big change that's
happening in the jewelryindustry is the price of gold is
still going up.
I've I've done this uh episodeso many times where I'm like,
hey, the price of gold is theall-time high, and then it's
like the next time I do it, oh,it's still the all-time high.
How is this affecting yourbusiness?
(35:32):
Being woven, uh woven bandsprimarily, and just uh you guys
do um weave with different typesof metals.
Is the price of gold increasinginterest in non-gold uh alloys,
or are you finding that gold isbeing seen as like an investment
metal and you're just people areyou know getting into it
(35:53):
regardless of the cost?
SPEAKER_00 (35:55):
A little bit of everything, Michael.
It's there's a lot of differentthings going on, right?
So so uh obviously for anymanufacturer, any manufacturer,
uh when your cost of um materialgoes up, it's never a positive
thing, you know, never, never,never because uh you uh you you
want stability, whatever theprice is, as long as it's stable
(36:16):
or as stable as it can be.
So definitely what we've seenthis year, like roughly 50% more
expensive than last year, or ina year-to-year comparison, uh,
is uh you have to be much morecareful, like you gotta control
your loss in terms ofmanufacturing.
You want to get paid uh quickerto basically uh so like you
(36:38):
don't have to rely on thefinancing continuously, right?
Yes, and the risk, you're takingbigger risks in terms of uh an
average order is more expensiveand all those things, right?
So it a little order costs muchmore for your customer, right?
But the reality is this thereality, the real reality, yes,
(36:58):
there's concerns, yes, there'sthings we need to do to adapt,
but what are you gonna do aboutit?
What are you gonna do about it?
Like it's going up, it's goingup.
It's like do I it's going up foreverybody, too.
SPEAKER_02 (37:08):
It's not like it's just going up for you.
SPEAKER_00 (37:10):
Do I want to go back to more reasonable pricing?
Absolutely.
But while we're here, we'regonna do what we have to do.
So, which is like no, no, notmake excuses and uh and go
forward.
So do we sell a lot of mixedmetals, we sell a lot of
products where we use less goldand more other types of
materials like carbon fiber,tantalum, and so on.
(37:34):
So the customer still is able toget that uh precious metal, and
while getting the innovative,the different black, gray look,
which they like a lot, right?
So that's one way of looking atit.
The surprising way of looking atit is since gold went up and is
going up, uh, the shift toyellow gold.
(37:54):
So since like now it's become aprestige, uh like some sort of a
like it's like a statementalmost when you're wanting
yellow gold right now.
It's not like it's it's it'sgold.
If you're wearing white, itcould be what silver, it could
be anything, it could bealternative.
It's hard to identify for theon-trained eye, but like uh the
yellow gold is skyrocketing,skyrocketing skyrocketing as a
(38:16):
status symbol or like a uh Ithink so.
I think it's a status symbol.
I think uh if you look at allthe fashion brands, uh yes,
yeah, yellow is you're gonna seeyellow, yellow, yellow.
So it started this like fiveyears ago.
You can notice the big brandspushing yellow, right?
And that's the time it takes tofor it to kind of do the switch
(38:37):
in other areas.
Look, it's concerning, Michael,but it hasn't slowed us down in
any way, shape, or form.
SPEAKER_02 (38:44):
Well, I love that.
I'm glad that you guys are stillpushing on.
And like I was saying, the priceof gold is up for literally
everybody, and what are yougonna do?
But I love to hear that you guysare still finding ways to adapt.
SPEAKER_00 (38:56):
The moment you accept any excuse, then
everything is an excuse.
You understand?
So like it is what it is, youjust do what you have to do.
Yeah, that's it.
SPEAKER_02 (39:06):
Now, Tony, as we wrap this thing up, uh, I wanted
to ask, I always ask vendors,can you tease anything that you
guys are working on?
Are you able to like a little inthe loop exclusive?
Are you able to people thatmight have your products
already?
Are you able to um uh you knowsay what you might be working on
or coming out with for next yearif that's how far out you're
(39:29):
planning?
SPEAKER_00 (39:30):
Well, definitely right now, everything is that we
do is for next year.
Okay, so uh, you know, where weare in the year right now,
October 7th, like you mentioned,it's not the time to uh uh to do
anything short term, it's reallythe long term we're looking at.
So obviously, uh I can see a fewthings.
Yeah, number one, we're reallylooking at uh uh big uh leaps in
(39:51):
technology on how we can assistour customers.
So we believe that with with AI,with everything that's going on
in the world right now, it'slike we're questioning how do we
incorporate more of that inserving our customers.
So that's like an area of uhfocus, right?
And uh we definitely have acouple uh big launches coming
next year for products, but thatI'll keep uh in the back pocket
(40:16):
for the moment, you know, forsure.
And announce it when it's reallyuh when I won't put anybody in
too much trouble announcing it.
So, but I mean, and we neverstop, we never stop with the
ideas, uh and uh that's a goodthing.
That's a good thing, that's whywe're having so much fun.
SPEAKER_02 (40:33):
Awesome.
I love hearing that you guys arestill innovating.
I mean, your guys' company hasbeen around for uh for a fair
amount of time, and the fact youguys are still finding ways to
uh to come out with new productsis super cool.
You guys do seem to be makingsomething that is very uh very
different than what's on themarket, and I find that very
inspiring and something that Ithat caught my eye, and one of
the reasons why I wanted toreach out to you guys for uh for
(40:54):
an interview.
So I really appreciate yourtime, Tony.
Um, if people are interested inin learning more about Malo
Bands, uh, where should they goto learn more?
SPEAKER_00 (41:03):
Well, uh they can go to uh www.mallowbands.com.
So that will give them a good uhoverview of what we do and what
we offer, right?
And if uh there's anything uhelse than that, obviously we do
12 shows a year, we're not hardto find.
Yeah, uh, you might you can youwill see us as many places as
(41:26):
possible.
We try to put ourselves uh inthe right places, and uh we're
if anything, we're very open tohave any conversation.
You know, it's not really aboutuh we can even if we realize
that we're not a good partner, agood fit in terms of business.
Uh for me, just talking topeople and learning about them
and their uh what's important tothem.
(41:47):
So we're easy to talk to.
You can find us on our websiteat the shows.
Easy to find.
SPEAKER_02 (41:52):
Amazing.
And everybody, if you do that,make sure you let them know that
in the loop sent you.
It definitely makes us lookgood.
And uh, I really appreciate yourtime, Tony.
This has been super cool.
I love hearing that you guys arealways innovating.
Uh, I appreciate your time.
Thank you, Michael.
All right, thanks, everybody.
We'll be back next week,Tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers, bye.
(42:17):
All right, everybody.
That's another show.
Thanks so much for listening.
This week, my guest was Tonyfrom Malo Bands.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, Michael Burpo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cochran.
Don't forget to leave thepodcast a five-star rating on
Spotify and Apple Podcasts, andleave us feedback on
(42:39):
punchmark.com slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks, and we'll be back nextweek Tuesday with another
episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
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