An AI-Powered Ring Designer That Actually Works ft. StoneAlgo

StoneAlgo's new Jeweler OS product is revolutionizing how jewelers convert website traffic into sales by generating real, manufacturable CAD files for custom engagement rings. The AI-powered tool creates a seamless path from online browsing to in-store purchasing while allowing jewelers to set their own markups.

Learn more about JewelerOS: https://getjeweleros.com/

Learn more about our sponsor, Jewel-Craft: jewel-craft.com

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to In the Loop and got a demonstration of
their new Jeweler OS product,which is this AI-powered ring
builder, and it really blew meaway.
It was super cool.
I think what really stands outto me about it is the fact that
it actually produces a realeditable CAD file and that is
different than all of the otherAI-powered engagement ring

(00:42):
conceptual tools and the factthat this actually puts you on
the last leg and maybe evenorder.
It is kind of really stands outto me.
And they also have a greatpartnership with Jewelcraft, who
is sponsoring this episode, andtheir partnership allows these
things to be fulfilled, theseengagement rings to be fulfilled
very easily and quickly, and Ithought it was just one of those

(01:06):
standout products.
That is really kind ofleveraging the current state of
technology to push jewelryforward, and I had a really
great time talking with him andI hope you enjoy listening.
Cheers.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the
jewelry industry's favoritewebsite platform and digital
growth agency.
Our mission reaches way beyondtechnology.
With decades of experience andlong-lasting industry
relationships, punchmark enablesjewelry businesses to flourish
in any marketplace.
We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have

(01:41):
been friends way before becomingclients.
Punchmark's own success comesfrom the fact that we have a
much deeper need and obligationto help our friends succeed.
Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
business growth or campaignsthat drive traffic and sales,
punchmark's website andmarketing services were made
just for you.
It's never too late totransform your business and

(02:02):
stitch together your digital andphysical worlds in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmarkcom.
Slash go.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
And now back to the show.
What is up everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening toIn the Loop this week.
I'm joined by Devin Jones.
How are you doing today, devin?
I'm doing great.
How are you doing Michael?
I'm doing so well.
We got a chance to meet at JCKand you and your company, stone

(02:38):
Algo, really was one of thestandout ones for me.
It was real.
I loved your guys' new tool andthe demo that you guys did was
really tight, really kind offelt like you guys had all the
answers.
Can you talk to me about StoneAlgo and how you guys kind of
built it in time for JCK thisyear?

Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yeah, man, thank you.
We've worked really really hardto build that product.
Obviously, I think it showswhen you get into the details
really really hard to build thatproduct.
Obviously, I think it showswhen you get into the details.
Just my quick backstory is Iactually started out on Wall
Street, so I worked in sales andtrading in New York and when I
was looking at getting my wifean engagement ring, I just felt
like I was totally underpreparedfor having that conversation

(03:21):
around, like what does a diamondcost and what are the styles I
should be selecting from?
And so I brought in another guyfrom Bank of America and the
two of us built out aspreadsheet that ultimately
looked at a huge inventory ofdiamonds that were available
online and tried to reverseengineer, like what should the
fair price of a specific diamondbe, based on all the other

(03:43):
diamonds that are in the market?
And it's kind of like whatRapnet has done for the B2B side
, but we did that for consumerand we ended up building a
really great spreadsheet.
But we needed to make thissomething that was going to be
able to live and breathe on theinternet for it to be useful to
other people.
And so eight years ago, wecreated Stonehawkcom and we grew

(04:05):
that over the last eight yearsto being a website that gets 2
million website visitors a year.
It's a very popular researchplatform for people who are
buying diamonds online, but alsopeople who are researching
diamonds that they find instores.
I'm sure some of your listenerswho are local jewelers have run
into us because they've beenshown inventory on our website

(04:26):
or what have you, and we builtsome really cool tools on that
website, and what we learnedover the last eight years was
how to build a product which isa website, but how to build an
interactive product that is bothSEO friendly so meaning people
can find it on Google, um, andthat's how we've gotten 2
million website visitors a yearbut also it's engaging, so

(04:49):
people can use it.
It's functional and I think, asyou look at what's going on
with AI I'm sure you guys talkabout this at punch mark all the
time it's like the value of ablog is going away.
Um, what is it's going to bereplaced with is the source of
truth, and so what that means is, like Google, reviews are
becoming more important becausean AI is going to have to

(05:11):
reference them right.
It has to reference the coredata that lives somewhere.
So something like Googlereviews is not going anywhere,
but like a blog post about like14 karat gold is not going to be
as useful as it used to be inhelping you rank in Google.
What our thesis has been is thatif you build a functional
product into the website, that'ssomething an LLM can't just

(05:31):
respond with an answer to.
Like somebody searching diamondprice calculator wants something
functional, and so StoneAugacomis where those functional
products live, and what you sawat JCK Vegas, which we can dive
into, is the functional productwe built that we could give to
local jewelers that make theirwebsites more future-proof, more
engaging and ultimately solvethe number one problem that we

(05:53):
were hearing when we werespeaking to local jewelers,
which is I'm getting websitetraffic.
I've got a beautiful websitewhether it's from Punchmark or I
built it on Shopify or mycousin helped me out but I'm not
doing any e-commerce salesright, because I'm a local
jeweler, and when people visitmy website, they are doing so
because they want to learn moreabout me, to come in store,
right.
And so what we identified asbeing the big hiccup between

(06:16):
people getting website trafficand then being able to do
something with it was having anonline to offline sales funnel,
and what we built was afunctional tool that
accomplished that.
But, as you saw in Vegas, it'sjust so much more than that.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Man, it's, first of all, the most high achiever of
all things is building aspreadsheet of referencing
diamond prices and then turningit into a business venture.
I mean A plus to you.
That is so cool.
It's like like someone built a.
I think that's how RottenTomatoes got created.
It's like they wanted to havelike an index on like good

(06:50):
movies and like what otherpeople thought about them, and
then eventually turns into acompany.
You're totally right, though,when it comes to like a source
of truth.
I think you are right on tosomething.
I think it almost is a delicatesubject, because, at its core,
the jewelry has this handshakeagreement, and the agreement is

(07:10):
that we're not going to like godirect to consumer ever, and
that's.
It seems to be like this bigtalk, and there've been certain
vendors that have jumped theshark, and they, you know, get,
you know, a lot of hairyeyeballs at them For you.
It sounds like you guys havestarted on the outside and now

(07:31):
are moving in.
Have you felt any pushback whenit comes to like?
Oh, I knew about you guysbecause a client came in and you
were showing them all thediamond prices.
Have you ever had like aretailer?
Be like, yeah, I'm not a bigfan, kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (07:44):
I've heard everything in between man Like I there's
one, my, my co-founder when helistens to this podcast.
We'll, we'll remember this day,um, so I'm married and I've got
a.
I've got a one-year olddaughter, um, and I remember
there was a time where a jewelercalled us or sent us a, send us
a message through like theintercom chat bubble on our

(08:05):
website on stonealgacom.
Yeah, it was like call me, youguys are illegally listing this
diamond that we just sold to acustomer.
This diamond inventory iscoming from an online jeweler
who's getting it from awholesaler somewhere.
Right, it's listed through adiamond feed and that online
jeweler hadn't, you know,removed it from their inventory,
or the dealer hadn't removed itfrom their inventory.

(08:27):
So, honest mistake somewherealong the chain.
And that information wasgetting sent to Stone Algo and
then it was getting displayed,along with millions of other
diamonds, in Stone Algo's feedthat consumers could visit and
check it out.
And so somebody had keyed inthe GIA ID, looked it up on our
website, seen like here's ourfair price estimate, here's the

(08:49):
information about where you canbuy this diamond online, cause
it hadn't been pulled off.
And and this guy was pissed andso I called.
I called him and justimmediately like 10 out of 10
aggression towards me and likeI'm a very I'm like a very nice,
calm person in general, and soI tried to diffuse.
But he was like he the.
The end of it shook me, whichis he taught.
He was like I know where youlive and he sent my address to

(09:10):
me and I was like I'm at theoffice, my wife's at home, right
, and so like and so like.
That's the extreme of it and Ithink that, like you know, in
that situation I also feel forthat guy because his livelihood
depends on making that sale.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
I don't want to get in the way of that.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
Ultimately, he didn't understand that this data is
flowing through multipledifferent steps before it gets
to us and we're not the sourceof truth.
The source of truth isultimately the dealer listing it
somewhere, that getting listedsomewhere, and you've got this
whole chain.
And I think this chain hasgotten more and more complicated
and there's not completecontrol over where inventory is

(09:51):
listed all the time.
Even so, there's a number ofproblems there.
So, yeah, there was bigpushback from within the
industry and I think wheneveryou're shaking things up and
doing something new, you'regoing to experience that
friction, and I think sometimesthat's a good sign.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Sometimes it makes you fearful for the life of your
wife and your child Uh when.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
When it was, it was a weird experience.
But, dude, I interact withjewelers every single day.
I mean, we interact with a lotof punchmark uh clients and I'm.
I'm on emails with your team ona regular basis, like getting
them set up for jeweler OS,which I'm just meeting like some
of the best people I've evermet.
So I think I just want to makeit clear that, like, that was an
outlier, but that is theextreme.

(10:33):
And yeah, we took attacks fromall sides in the early days.
I think over time, people sawthat we handle those attacks by
diffusing and understanding andsolving rather than, you know,
fighting back, and that that ledto a good reputation within the
industry.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
So just discussing, for example, before we get into
Jules Roles and actually talkingabout this product that I was
so excited about, I want, like,transparency.
So transparency is one of thosethings that some people don't
actually want.
Transparency, because inside ofthe transparency is where you
can actually have a lack oftransparency for kind of a

(11:27):
substantial amount of time.
You know all the way, you knowthrough the 1900s, before you
know, these very complicatedmethods for you know
accountability and things likethat were actually discovered
and implemented discovered andimplemented.
One thing I think about all thetime is, for example, cars.
Buying a car, it's one of thelast vestiges of bartering.

(11:53):
It doesn't seem like it existsanywhere else and, as a result,
personally I hate that.
I want to walk in, I want youto tell me what the price of the
car is and I want to be like isthat the lowest?
And then to be like that iswhat the price of the car is and
for me to buy it and then walkout.
There should be no difference mebuying you know some bananas
versus buying a you know a truck, and I think that diamonds were

(12:13):
kind of in that realm wherethere was like the bartering if
you knew a guy, if you, you know, had this kind of relationship,
that they would give you thisdeal and even still there is
still a lot of deal and likekind of like you know, working
through because Julie doesexperience this a lot of time
Keystone markup at every level.
Do you think that that's kindof where the core of pushback

(12:37):
was coming from?
Is people felt like you wereeroding their markups and their
ability to actually run abusiness the way that they have
been for the last you know, 100plus years?
Or was it something more alongthe lines of like you were
divulging trade secrets, kind ofthing?

Speaker 3 (12:55):
I think you kind of hit the nail on the head.
So we have a fair priceestimate which is like a
Zillow's estimate for diamonds,and it doesn't take in all
information to be clear, Likeit's not perfect.
Uh, as well as estimate, it'snot perfect either.
I think everybody knows thatright, Like it's taking in
whatever information it can getbut it doesn't know necessarily
that the countertops in thekitchen are Carrara marble.

(13:17):
And it's not going to price thatin uh versus, like you know,
some uh lookalike countertopthat's not as expensive.
And so, like everyone ineveryone listening to this
podcast probably knows that two,two diamonds that are graded
the same by the GIA could bepriced completely different.
And it's rational becausethey're very different items.
Where it gets irrational iswhere two items that are very,

(13:39):
very similar or identical arelisted at totally different
prices because one guy is, youknow, baking in more markup than
the other.
And then it's like, like you'repointing out, um, you're, if
you're going to, if you're goingto give transparent information
to the consumer, you're goingto be eroding the ability for
somebody to add extra markup.

(14:00):
Uh, ultimately you're going toconverge to like what is the
fair markup?
And I think what this industryis missing on the diamond side
is MSRP, and I don't think it'san easy thing to solve With
diamonds specifically, it's, youknow, on the dealer side it's,
I think, a little morestraightforward because you have
professional versusprofessional, and even then

(14:20):
you'll look on wrap net andyou'll see like there's
discrepancy in inventory pricing.
And you'll look on wrap net andyou'll see like there's
discrepancy in inventory pricingand you'll be like you know,
it's a bad make or you know,it's just it's grainy, it's not,
it's not good material, likewhatever, whatever it is, and
there's a reason why the pricingis different at the consumer
level.
You have all thosediscrepancies, plus markup

(14:41):
differences, and the markupdifferences can be really
significant across retailers,plus markup differences and the
markup differences can be reallysignificant across retailers.
And so, yeah, I think that abig issue is that there's not
some sort of a concept of MSRP.
We actually are very directlytackling this within our new
products and not on the diamondside, although that is something

(15:01):
we've talked about solutionsfor and I think we can get
closer to that over time, but itis complicated.
But I do think, like when youlook at like, for example,
there's an MSRP, like you haveto sell at a certain price, you
can't sell a new online, likethere's all these decisions that
have been made about how youcreate a premium experience for

(15:24):
the consumer and you protect thebrand Right.
And I think the jewelry industrysome jewelers are very
cutthroat.
Some jewelers are trying tobake in as big a margin as they
can and most are somewhere inbetween, and there does need to
be a fair amount of markup,because there is a fair amount
of overhead and labor and allsorts and returns are a huge

(15:46):
issue now, especially with, youknow, lab and natural people are
ordering multiple times.
That time sometimes and likecreates a lot of additional
overhead costs for everybody,and so I think that there are
reasons why markups should behealthy, and I think that some
jewelers really shoot themselvesin the foot by having too lean

(16:07):
of margins, especially some ofthese online guys who don't
really understand that whenyou're doing an online, if
you're building an onlinebusiness and you're going direct
to consumer, everybody thinksthey can charge lower prices,
but in reality you have thismassive customer acquisition
cost of going out and spendingon Google ads, facebook ads.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Any jeweler who's tried to run advertising knows
it's super expensive to drive asale and you gotta, you gotta,
start taking those things andthen slicing it up by the number
of sales that you have, orattempted sales, and as a result
, you don't realize but yeah,like you almost can't even like
discount that, like you have tohave a margin, otherwise you're

(16:47):
just doing this as a charity andwe're not in this for charity.
This is a luxury business.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
So and that's and that's why wholesaler or like.
That's why these brands thatyou know will like just to name
a brand that comes to mind thatI know a lot of jewelers carry
like they're willing to sell ata wholesale cost to a retailer
who then marks it up and sellsit to the customer, as opposed
to going direct to consumer,because they're taking advantage

(17:12):
of the network that that localjeweler has.
And then they build a networkof jewelers and instead of going
out and spending millions ofdollars on advertising that they
would have to do to sell directto consumer, they're happier
doing it that way and I knowthey've got like.
You know there's a number ofthings they do there that are
smart, but I think that localjewelers have really struggled

(17:33):
to do digital marketing.
That's worked, and it's not thatthere's bad agencies out there
who don't know what they'redoing.
There's a lot of good agenciesthat do know what they're doing.
But it's like it's verydifficult to convert website
traffic into sales because youdon't have a good funnel for it,
because most people who areworking like I said earlier
working with a local jeweler,they want to come in store.
They don't want to convertthrough the website.

(17:54):
That kind of defeats thepurpose of working with a local
jeweler.
They want to know what you got,they want to validate you, but
then they want to come in and beconcierge.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yeah, and you know we always say luxury or just
jewelry in general, is sorelationship building, that
having the ability to buildrelationships online, it's it's.
It's not easy.
It takes, you know, concertedeffort.
But let's talk about this newproduct that you have, so a
jeweler OS.
Um, I thought it was reallyfascinating.
It seemed like you had all ofthe answers so far and it seemed
like it was built on a lot ofexperience and just user

(18:32):
interviews.
Can you, when you start thepitch for DrillerOS, how do you
start this conversation?

Speaker 3 (18:40):
So I think the conversation starts with
addressing the problem, andwe've kind of already talked
about that, right?
So the problem is you've got awebsite, you get traffic, but
you're not doing any sales.
So one of our partners, forexample, ton of website traffic,
spends a ton in marketing andthey were getting five

(19:00):
engagement ring requests a monththrough their website, which is
actually like decent, you know,and that might be through
podium or through a contact usform.
They're collecting five peoplea month who say I want to buy an
engagement ring and maybe itturns into a sale or not.
Yes, Without changing theamount of money they were
spending on marketing, withoutchanging how much traffic they

(19:21):
were getting, month one of usingour new system they went from
five to 150 verified engagementleads.
Now they get a lot of traffic,but it just goes to show that
like there's untapped potentialon the website that by
installing a better system tocapture that traffic and turn it
into an in-store appointment orlead um, you can open up a ton

(19:42):
of value.
And so the conversation alwaysfor us starts with like, do you
have this problem?
And 10 out of 10 times theanswer is yes, because it's a
very consistent problem.
And then it's like okay, here'show we think about solving it,
and basically we think throughthe lens of a funnel.
At the top of the funnel youhave website traffic and at the

(20:03):
bottom of the funnel you have asale, and the goal is to build a
system that moves people downand qualifies them and
understand that the top of thefunnel is always going to have
way more people than the bottomright.
Hence the funnel.
Yes, it gets smaller and morenarrow at the bottom, and the
way that this has been tackledso far is by listing inventory

(20:24):
on a website and giving acatalog for people to search
through.
But most people are coming intoa jewelry store with
screenshots or images that havebeen shared by their significant
other via Instagram or, youknow, by text, and trying to
show them every possible ringdesign on their website so that
you capture what they're lookingfor as an option is very

(20:47):
difficult to do and becomes thisreally difficult search problem
as the person's looking throughyour website at all of your
inventory, trying to find thatspecific cathedral engagement
ring that they received apicture of.
So the way that we'veapproached it is to say, let's
build an actual ring design toolthat is powerful enough that a

(21:07):
jeweler can manufacture a ringdirectly from the tool.
So every ring that's designedwithin our, within our tool is a
manufacturable CAD file.
And we worked with one of thebest manufacturers in the
country to make that possible,which is Jewelcraft, as you know
.
Shout out to Jewelcraft.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
Wait, paul, run the ad.
This episode is brought to youin part by Jewelcraft.
Running a jewelry store is nosmall feat.
That's where Jewelcraft comesin.
They're a fourth generationfamily-owned business based in
Kentucky that's built theirreputation on being the reliable

(21:45):
behind the scenes partner thatjewelers across the country
trust, whether it's jewelryrepair, manufacturing, custom
design or appraisals.
They can handle anything thatyour jewelers don't have the
time for and help scale yourprojects.
And because their work is doneright here in the USA, you avoid
the hassle of overseasproduction delays or tariffs.
That means faster turnarounds,consistent quality and peace of

(22:07):
mind.
With a team of seasoned expertsand decades of experience,
jewelcraft is your one-stop shopfor everything you need to keep
your jewelry business runningsmoothly, so you can stay
focused on what matters mostyour customers.
Learn more at Jewelcraftcom.
That's Jewel-Craftcom.
Learn more about them in theshow notes below.
And now back to the show.

(22:28):
And we're back.
That's so cool that it'sactually manufacturable, because
I think a lot of times thesethings almost go into the realm
of like inspo.
You know just like.
This is the kind of thing Iwant, and I think nowadays
people are so good at jewelryring uh design, like engaging

(22:51):
ring design that it's almostlike.
When you start to look at themit's like man, this is a really
hard ring to build, or like Idon't even know if this is even
feasible, especially with likeyou punch in into, like chat,
gpt, and have an image, createuh engagement ring for you, man,
it's going to be the mostinsane thing possible, but this
is not that for you correct?

Speaker 3 (23:10):
No, it's completely the opposite really.
So what you said is true.
Like the AI, the way thatpeople are approaching
integrating AI into theengagement ring design process
right now is basically likedescribe a ring design and we'll
spin up an image and then we'regoing to send that image image
off to be manufactured, but somehuman beings going to have to
sit down and build the CAD file.
Right, we've said no, we'regoing to spend years developing

(23:33):
proprietary software wheresomebody can design a ring.
Have you ever, have you everbuilt a car online just to see
what it looks like?

Speaker 1 (23:41):
All those things.
I've built sneakers.
I've built t-shirts.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah, Nike ID right.
Oh, I'm way into it, I love it,so, so, like I'm the same way,
Like I love tinkering, I lovebuilding things and like, if you
design a car online, you canadd a convertible roof and you
can see how much that costs.
You can change the wheels to be20 inches or 19 inches and you
can see the change.
And we wanted to build thatexperience for consumers and we

(24:06):
were going to launch it onstonealgacom.
But once we built thatexperience, which is you design
a custom engagement ring and itfeels like you're building a car
on Mercedes Benz, but you'rebuilding a custom ring and in
real time you're seeing theprice change thanks to a formula
that we worked out withJewelcraft, where we can show
real consumer facing MSRP andeach jeweler gets to set their
markup on wholesale.
So each jeweler gets tocustomize price and they can

(24:28):
control it in their dashboardand update at any time.
And then, from the consumer'sperspective, there's 20 billion
different rings they can design.
So like, imagine trying to puta catalog of 20 billion rings on
your website and then navigateit like not possible.
So the consumer gets to designa ring in this 3D engaged ring
builder.
It looks like a full-on 3D ringbecause it is actually a CAD

(24:49):
file.
And then in the backgroundthere is an actual CAD file
that's being generated thatlooks very similar to the
consumer-facing render.
But the consumer-facing renderlooks sleek and polished.
The prongs are holding thediamond down.
In the background, hidden away,is a manufacturing file where
the prongs are sticking straightup, there's extra metal in all
the right places to be polishedaway by the manufacturer.

(25:11):
And then you know, whensomebody's built this ring,
we're using the ring as like aworm on the end of a fishing
hook is the analogy I use.
It's the thing that hooks thecustomer and gets them to hand
over their personal informationbecause we're earning it.
We're not just giving a contactus form and saying fill this
out and we're going to get backto you, and the customer's like
well, maybe that's going intothe void.
I don't know where this contactus form leads.

(25:32):
Instead, we're like if you giveus your phone number and verify
that phone number so there's nospammy phone numbers being put
in, we'll let you into the 3Dring builder where you can build
this amazing ring and customizeit to the nth degree.
And then the jeweler is gettingthat information with the ring

(25:53):
they designed so they can reachout to the customer and they
know how to concierge thembefore the customer has even
given them any informationverbally, Like they see exactly
what the customer wants.
The customer is happy becausethey were able to go through
this interactive process andthen the two ideally meet
through an appointment in thestore and either the jeweler can
run them through their fullcustom process from there or, if

(26:14):
the customer designed exactlywhat they want, the jeweler can
either download the CAD ahundred percent free because
we're automatically generatingCAD files, so we don't charge
for it.
All of our partners getunlimited free CAD files, which
is crazy or they can place anorder through Jewelcraft and
it's as easy as ordering a pairof socks on Amazon.
Like imagine, instead ofemailing back and forth a

(26:34):
hundred times with the guy whodoes CAD design at your local
menu, at your manufacturer ofchoice, you're just clicking
send and the CAD design'salready done.
Just go straight to productionand then in two to three weeks
but usually closer to two weeksthe ring shows up on your
doorstep at your jewelry storeand it's ready to be handed over

(26:54):
to the customer.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
That's really it's a really cool process.
I think the idea of thisbusiness of free is I mean, it's
what we founded this podcast onis that our idea was, if we
educate and we provide somethingfor free, you know there's what
we founded this podcast on.
Is that our idea was, if weeducate and we provide something
for free, you know there's nota lot of strings behind it.
A lot of times it's just like,in the end, people know why do
we do this podcast?
It's like like you're talkingabout with a worm on a hook.

(27:15):
So why do we do this podcast?
It is advertisement forPunchmark, but people are okay
with you know, swallowing thatbecause hopefully the podcast is
good enough.
Swallowing that becausehopefully the podcast is good
enough.
And with you, it's like peopleare okay with providing their
phone number and then verifyingit because the builder is
exactly what they're looking for, exactly.
It's the right thing at theright time.

(27:37):
Therefore, they're okay withthat trade, right, exactly With
that relationship withJewelcraft.
Talk to me a little bit moreabout that, Because it's
generating this CAD file.
And what I'm curious about isit does sound in a perfect world
.
It sounds perfect.
Man, take it, you send it overto Jewelcraft.

(27:57):
They create it and the ring'sready.
But what if there's just asmall tweak that they want to do
?
There's just a small tweak thatthey want to do and the client,
this shopper, is, like you know, this ring, except I just want
to like loft the ring a littlebit more.
I can't figure out how to do itin the, in the, in the builder?
Is that something?

(28:17):
Is that flexibility exist, oris it a little more constrained?

Speaker 3 (28:20):
Yeah, so it is a little bit more constrained
within the builder.
Now, like I said, there's 20million different ring designs,
so it's like prettycomprehensive and, as you saw,
everything works together.
So I think you know you and Iwere talking about this earlier
like one of the things thatreally struck you at Vegas when
you saw the demo was you can addPave to the band and then you

(28:41):
can resize the band and thenumber of Pave diamonds, the
melee on the band changes inreal time and the spacing of it
is constantly adapting, so thatif you stacked an eternity band
right next to it, all thediamonds would be equally spaced
on the eternity band and on theengagement setting, even if you
have a cathedral.
Like all of this was math.
It took us years to build thisout and perfect it and AI is

(29:05):
just not there.
Like, ai is not going togenerate an image that can do
that and it's not able togenerate CAD files, obviously.
So you give up a little bit offlexibility on being able to
design anything because you'redesigning things that are
actually, you know, producible.
Now all of our files areeditable, so in certain

(29:28):
situations, jewelcraft can editthe file and any any designer
who has access to software canedit these files.
Um, we use an OBJ format forthe file that it can be
converted to STL.
This might be going overpeople's heads, but STL is what
most manufacturers use forproducing the wax printout of

(29:50):
the ring.
But OBJ files are convertibleto STL and they're also editable
.
And then there's thealternative, which is like if it
gets too custom, you just runit through your normal custom
process.
You just have a human beingdesign it.
But yeah, I mean, the littletweaks are what make the
products, I think, really sing.

(30:10):
I think one of the things thatI always mention is the number
one button people click on whenthey're designing a ring on one
of our partner's websites ischanging the prong tips.
So not adding pave, not.
The number one thing theychange is changing prong tip.
And one of the most, the mostclicks, I think, is is petite
claw, which is like a tiny clawtip.

(30:32):
It's like I remember, I remembermy wife wanting something like
that and that's why we put it inthere and then it ended up
being a hit.
And I think that you you askedme about, like before the call,
before the pod today you werelike, you know, it really seemed
like you had a lot of you hadall the answers and like you've
done a ton of customer researchright.
It was actually very much theopposite, like we took more of

(30:55):
like an Apple, like a Steve jobsapproach, where we had a real
um, we had a real opinion aboutwhat the product should be and
we followed that all the way towhere it led us and we really
kept it at a high level and whenwe got there we had something
that I think a lot of peoplewouldn't have asked for but it
really resonates with theconsumer and the performance has

(31:16):
been just like off the charts.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
What a really interesting kind of route
because, like, I went to schoolfor user experience design and
what I find interesting about UXis they sometimes talk about,
for example, um, you know,customer research and and and
these experiential research uh,so I did some of that, when
that's one of the best reasonswhy I like going to shows is I

(31:38):
talk to people and just likewatching them click around is
really interesting.
Also, like if you go in, youtry to buy something yourself,
just like.
The number one piece of adviceI always give listeners is like
hey, when's the last time youbought something off your own
website?
You don't have to actually goto the last, actually like
confirm it, but when's the lasttime you put something in your
shopping cart and like got tothe last step and just seen what

(32:01):
that looks like?
Well, maybe you should do ittoday.
But what's really interesting isI saw you doing these demos and
I could see that you guys hadflown through this so many times
and I guess I want to hear,like, what have you learned from
both it being live and alsodoing these, these demos?

(32:22):
What are you like?
For example, I'm always worried, I have anxiety and I am
anxious about, for example,losing a large stone?
Have you ever had like?
Do you have conversations withjewelers about a?
This thing that your buildercould do would make a liability

(32:42):
Like.
Are those the type ofconversations you've had with
with jewelers?
What have you learned fromspeaking with customers now?

Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yeah, there, there had been so many of those
conversations where we've we'vekind of peeled back the, the, uh
, the layer of like, what is thejeweler concerned about, what
is the jeweler value?
And, um, we do a lot of thingsto address.
The reason we have so manyanswers is, yeah, we've've,
we've onboarded a lot ofcustomers very quickly.
We've grown very, very fast andthrough those conversations

(33:10):
we've learned what the pushbackis and address those problems.
Um, things that have come upare like, you know well, uh, if
I'm like, how do I know that Ican honor this price, for
example?
So we're like, okay, well, ifwe want to show an msrp to a
customer, which I felt wascrucial to the product being
useful, I agree.

(33:30):
Um, we needed to have amanufacturing partner who could
deliver, and so that's why wechose jewelcraft is we I had a
conversation with you, metbradley at vegas.
He's the best, he's, he's ourhead of sales guy could, like
you know, sell this in his sleep.
He knows the product inside out, forward and backward.
Um, and he had worked for adiamond wholesaler on 47th

(33:56):
street Manhattan for a decadebefore I hired him over here and
took him away, and, um, his jobwas to sell natural diamonds to
local jewelers.
So he knew a ton of localjewelers and he had tried to get
in with Jewelcraft for years.
But Jewelcraft kept turning himdown and he like bought the
whole facility ice cream at onepoint and like they remembered
him because he's like the icecream guy Right.

(34:17):
Um, and so when I asked him Iwas like if you could choose any
manufacturer in the countrythat you believe is going to
deliver a consistently greatproduct and they're going to
have a fair price, um, who wouldthat person be?
And he was like my number onewould be Jewelcraft.
And I was like can you make anintro?
He was like I don't know ifthey'll talk to you.
I was like fine, he puts us intouch with Stephanie over there

(34:37):
and we get in touch with them.
And flew over there, met withthem, did like we flew, we were,
we were we're a startup, likewe're not trying to spend money.
We didn't have money for likehotels, right.
So we flew in in the morning,flew out at night.
We had like four hours atJewelcraft.
Uh, you know, flew in and out ofCincinnati and they saw the
passion, they saw the vision andthey loved it.

(34:59):
And they, they were willing towork with us to make sure that
all of our stuff wasmanufacturable and then give us
a formula so we could price thisstuff in real time.
So, like that solved thatproblem, which was how do I know
I can fulfill this ring andmake the spread, the three X or
two and a half X markup that I'mguaranteeing.
It's like, okay, it's not aneasy problem to solve, but like

(35:20):
we listened, we solved it.
Um, there's definitely, there'sdefinitely a ton of questions
and jewelers have a lot of goodfeedback.
I think that you know everybusiness is a series of
constraints and you're alwaysconstrained in one area or
another.
So for us right now, theconstraints on fulfillment.
We don't have enough capacityto fulfill everybody we could

(35:41):
sell to, and so that constraintssales like we could increase
sales, but the throughput offulfilling and making sure
everyone's successful is theconstraint.
So we just brought on acustomer success person today
who's phenomenal and like that,will alleviate the constraint
over the next few weeks, andthen the constraint will be
maybe on marketing or sales.
Right, and jewelers are thesame way.

(36:02):
And so what we're focused on is, when you look at this as like
a funnel of getting customers atthe top and then producing
sales at the bottom, which partof that funnel is currently
broken?
And for our jewelers right now,where we're focused on is not on
generating more leads, becausethe leads we're generating a ton

(36:25):
of.
The focus is now on how do wemake sure that those leads turn
into appointments, thoseappointments turn into sales and
that's happening at a good rate, but we want to ramp that up to
like an amazing rate becausewhat that'll do for us.
It doesn't make us any moremoney because we only charge per
lead.
Uh, we don't get to earn moreif you make more sales per lead.

(36:45):
But what it solves as abusiness owner on my end is
getting to have thoserelationships forever because
our jewelers are happy with theproduct, they're not going to
leave and we've never lost acustomer so we have.
Every single jeweler we've eversigned up is on the program
currently At some point it'sgoing to happen.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
It's happened for Punchmark and you guys are
phenomenal, so like it happensat some point.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
but I'd like to keep that record intact as long as I
can, and the way to do that isto make sure that if your
customers are making money usingyour product, then they can
always afford to pay for it.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Wow, that's a really great way to look at it.
We have that same conversationwith our clients, is?
You know, I think it's rathershort-sighted to just take a
client on, even if it's not agreat fit, and I think that
there was a certain point withPunchmark where we just we had
to look some people in the eyesand be like, hey, this is not

(37:39):
for you.
You know, I always joke about,like, sometimes you don't need,
you know, a muscle car or aFerrari or something like that,
not that I'm trying to call apunch mark a Ferrari, but it's
more like a utility, uh, vehicle.
Sometimes you just need, like,a bike, and if that's the case,
maybe you don't need a, you know, a utility car.

(37:59):
I wanted to ask, though, aboutthis nurturing these leads that
come through.
So you were talking about howyou guys get.
You get paid when a customerverifies their, their phone
number.
That sounds great.
So what about, like, thisprocess afterwards?
So I mean, it sounds great.
You know, hey, I want to buythis ring, and they actually buy

(38:21):
the ring and they go from there.
But what is the actual processlook like behind the scenes
between they design something toactually, you know, having an
appointment, or placing theactual order and coming in and
actually picking it up.
What is?
Those actual steps look like.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
Yeah, we're a little bit crazy in this regard, like I
think we're very abnormal, uh.
So I love the way that ourprice structure is set up, where
we only benefit if the clientis benefiting because they're
generating leads, but the leadis not going to pay the bills,
like what pays the bills ofsales?
So what we actually we, weimplemented this four or five

(39:04):
months ago and it's completelycomplimentary is we have a
concierge team that will act asyour salesperson when you get a
lead.
We send out a text message fiveminutes after the lead comes in
on a phone number we buy inyour local area code.
It's got to be separate from,like, your podium number or
whatever your store number is,because you can only assign that
number to one sort of thirdparty and you know.

(39:26):
So if Podium is using it, like,we can't use it, um, or
whichever service you're usinguses it, um.
So we buy a phone number foryou and then we, we set it up,
so we send out a text messagefive minutes after somebody
becomes a lead, and it feelsvery human and we don't have to
say text stop, uh, because weask, we ask for that permission
when they're verifying theirphone number, I see, and so

(39:48):
we're able to make it feelreally human.
And that first message is atemplate, but every message
after that, if the customerresponds, is an actual human
being in the United States,texting back and forth, having a
conversation, and the goal ofthat conversation is to book an
appointment or to get thecustomer warmed up and then put
them in touch with thesalesperson.
So what we saw as the biggestbottleneck for our jewelers,

(40:12):
like I said, series ofconstraints.
The constraint was when wefigured out how to generate a
lot of very qualified leads.
It was then holy shit, we'resending so many leads to some of
these partners that their salesteam can't just drop everything
and just be managing this.
We need to basically handlethat so that they don't have to
worry about it and they can justfocus on selling, because

(40:32):
that's what the jeweler isactually good at, not texting,
and so we handle the texting forthem and we offer that
completely complimentary.
It's optional.
Over 90% of our partners chooseto use it because it's, it's
awesome, it's free.
Why wouldn't you?
Um, some of them are like I'mthe face of my brand and I'm a
solo uh, you know person and I Ineed to be great like less work

(40:55):
for us, take it off our platesand and that's that's phenomenal
we're we're launching somethingmassive in the next few weeks
that directly addresses all ofthis and takes it up another
notch, which is within thedashboards.
You're going to have a fullsuite of of little tools that

(41:16):
help you re-engage those leadsnot just send out one text and
then see if they respond, butactually send out one text and
then wait an appropriate amountof time to send a nudge.
And then do it in a way that'snot over-communicating with the
customer because you don't wantto annoy them.
You just want to make sure thatif they're busy, you get in

(41:36):
front of them at the right timeand establish some rapport and
hopefully get a conversationgoing, because one of the most
interesting things we've seen isthat we built an entire
appointment booking system intothe product.
But of all the appointmentsthat get booked, I would say 90%
are through text message and10% are somebody booking it

(41:57):
themselves after designing aring.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
Wow, yeah, it's crazy .
It would be the other wayaround.
That's 100%.
When it comes to theseconversations, I hate to ask you
to pull metrics on the fly, butwhat's like the ballpark range
for?
Like the number of back andforths on average before an
appointment is actually booked?
Are you looking at like threeor are you looking at like 20?

Speaker 3 (42:20):
It's closer to, I would say that it's, it's in the
middle of that.
It's definitely not 20.
Just think off the top of myhead, like the conversations,
like you can.
You can kind of like if youwere to script a conversation,
as if you were like writing likea screenplay, like what that
conversation would go like.
It's like the initial textmessage where we're like hey,
you designed this gorgeous ring.

(42:41):
Did you want to share inspopics of what you were hoping to
do, or was this exactly what youwanted?
We asked them a question to getthem to engage with us and then
their response and we've ABtested the snot out of that.
And one of the advantages I'msure like punchmark doesn't may
be testing across clients andstuff.
When you work with so manydifferent clients or partners,
you can run a B test at scaleand then everybody benefits from

(43:03):
the winners.
So it's like you know,evolution or data science, um,
and that's what's.
I'm a data nerd, I came fromwall street, so like that's the
stuff that like really gets meexcited.
Um, but we're able to send atext message that gets good
engagement and then, if theyrespond, they're either sharing
images and then we're uploadingthem into the dashboard so the
jeweler can see all those thingsDid.

(43:24):
We show you the image to 3Dring generation.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
I think you did at one point and I was very blown
away by it.
It's very cool.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
That is.
I think it's the craziest thingwe can do.
And can you explain it for thepeople that are listening?
Yeah, yeah, it's wild.
So it's a very visual product.
I feel like nothing that I'vesaid on this podcast is doing a
good job.
No, it makes it.
No, you're setting the scene.
But to give you an idea of thepower of what we can do and how
we use AI and we're thinkingabout the future of AI in ring

(43:57):
design AI and we're thinkingabout the future of AI in ring
design we built a machine thering builder that takes a series
of inputs that are like buttonsthat a consumer can click and
then it constructs a ring in 3Din real time out of those inputs
.
And it's a more simplifiedversion of, like, full-blown
design software that aprofessional would use right,
it's got training wheels on itblown design software that a

(44:18):
professional would use right,it's got training wheels on it.
We are able to connect thatmachine to ChatGPT and let
ChatGPT control the inputs, andChatGPT has this thing that's
called a vision API.
And so, long story short, toput this in plain English, you
can upload an image into thedashboard.

(44:38):
So customer walks in the store,they show you the screenshot
from Instagram and you say couldyou email that to me?
Cool, I'm going to upload it toyour, to your account on our
dashboard and then, with asingle click of a button, after
you've uploaded the image, weread the image using chat GPT
and then let chat GPT build thering for you.

(45:00):
So, literally, you click abutton and then, like you see,
like a loading uh circle, andthen the ring just materializes.
So you go from image to ringand, by the way the ring is,
there's a CAD file.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
So, you've gone from a.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
you've gone from an Instagram image to a CAD file
with a single click.
Wow, Like very cool.
It's mind blowing.
Um, it's, it's my favoritething to show off and it's not
consumer facing.
Yet it's only available to thejewelers in their dashboard, but
that's going to be a consumerfacing product at some point
soon.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
So I've got a couple of questions related to that.
One of them and I hate to makeyou defend your own product is
supposed to highlight yourproduct.
Let's have this discussion.
I have concerns sometimes withthose related tools in that
someone spent a lot of timedesigning that ring.
A jewelry designer spent a lotof time, especially if it's from

(45:51):
a brand that I consider aprotected brand.
You know the ones, but some ofthese brands, they have
protection around their designsand whose responsibility is it
to make it so that there isenough difference in this newly
designed quote unquote newlydesigned ring if it was based on

(46:13):
a protected design, if you knowwhat I mean.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
Yeah.
So I think, at the end of theday, what's great about our tool
is that we've built it in a waythat it can create
manufacturable rings.
In doing that, we've had to,we've had to constrain things.
You cannot design somethingwith a quilted pattern on the
inside of the band, like acertain brand that I'm not going
to name, so you don't have todub it so that certain brand has

(46:38):
quilting along the inside ofthe band the certain brand that
I'm not going to name, so youdon't have to dub it.
Um, so that certain brand hasquilting along the inside of the
band, the shank, um, thattouches the finger, and we don't
offer that because, well, thatwould be wrong.
Right, and so there are thingsthat we do offer and things that
we don't offer, and when, ifsomebody uploaded an image of a
ring from that brand, our ringbuilder cannot construct it so
what?
it does is it constructs thenearest thing to it, and in that

(46:59):
way it's sort of built toprotect the copyright, or
whatever you want to call it.
Yes, yeah, so basically, likewe would never bake in design
elements that were proprietaryin some way.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
I understand.
Well, that's good to know, andI guess on the same topic and
again not making you defend thisproduct, but it's more when I
think of the moving forward withtechnology.
Unfortunately, there are peoplethat were expert, you know,
horse riders and then when thecar came around, well, suddenly

(47:36):
their profession was not in asmuch demand.
So I sometimes think aboutcustom ring designers especially
.
You know, with all thesebuilders or just like custom
jewelry designers in general, wehave a bunch that listen to
this show, that are that that'stheir niche and they are,
they're good at this, they'regood at this.
Does this occupy a differentvertical than custom jewelry

(48:12):
design?
In that sometimes I think ofcustom jewelry design as a
bespoke, hand-holdy sort ofcollaboration, and this is
almost like a fast pass what iseven the right word Like more of
like a seamless experience.
Semi-custom?
Exactly.
That's a great term.
Is this occupying a differentvertical?
Or is it just like if yourexpertise is custom jewelry
design, then this product mightnot be for you?

Speaker 3 (48:34):
Yeah, I'll be very.
I'll share some of my long-termthinking on this Cause I've
thought a lot about this.
Um, I wish we had talked aboutthis earlier in the show, so
hopefully we didn't lose thejewelry designers who are just
off looking at my home addressso they can curse me off.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
Um don't do that, don't do that.
So I like Devin.

Speaker 3 (48:53):
So, look, I think that our product is going to
generate more custom work thanever for the industry as a whole
because it gets people thinkingcustom, and our ring builder
will never be able to handle100% of custom design.
And the people who've wantedcustom design for years and
years.
Why do they want it?
They want it because it'scustom, because it's unique,

(49:14):
because nobody else can have it.
Because it's unique becausenobody else can have it, and so
we are not going to be theproduct for that person who
wants a full custom ring.
What we are is a great startingpoint.
So, in the same way thatsomebody would use an inspo
image their girlfriend sent themon Instagram, we are the inspo
image now, and so we're.
We're what somebody is walkinginto a store with as a starting

(49:37):
point for a full custom ring.
Then you have the person whowas buying something more
conventional off the shelf, outof the case, as they say and, uh
, that person that was buyingthat, that ring that was out of
the case before but was oh, Iwant the prongs to be petite
claw right, and so now it's likean existing design with a tweak

(50:01):
.
That's our end customer.
Now, when you look at thenumbers, the numbers, the stats
and I believe this is from asurvey by the Knot say that 85%
of consumers want a custom orsemi-custom engagement ring.
Now how many of them actuallybuy it?
Like if you, if I asked you,like, what percent of guys do

(50:21):
you think prefer a bespoke suitfrom Savile Row off of a suit
off the rack from Macy's?
All of them, yeah, all of them.
Like every single.
Obviously Right.
And then you're like, okay, butit costs 10 grand and the other
one costs 500 bucks and they'relike oh, actually, you know
what?
Actually, I think I'm going tostep back.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
Great analogy, yep.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
Yeah, and so for us, when you look at that breakdown
of 85% want customer semi-custom, the breakdown is 50% want
semi-custom.
They want tweaks on an existingdesign and I bet if you ask
jewelers, who see customersevery single day, what
percentage of their customerswant just tweaks on an existing
design, that number is going toline up relatively closely to

(51:00):
what they're seeing in real life.
People want what they are like.
People aren't inventing newrings.
There's some people that aredoing some interesting tweaks on
existing design but ultimatelythey're referencing inspiration
they've seen somewhere else.
They're not creating somethingcompletely novel that's never
been done before.
Very rarely.
Most people are seeing like,okay, there's 10 main styles or

(51:22):
categories and within thosethere's 10 sub styles within
each and I'm choosing from thisgrid of 100.
And then I want to tweak theprong tips or I want, you know,
the band to be slightly wider.
And that's where our productthrives, because our product can
make the band whatever 0.1millimeter you want and it
updates in.
Our product thrives because ourproduct can make the band
whatever 0.1 millimeter you wantand it updates in real time and
you can add pave to it and yousee the price update and you can

(51:44):
resize the ring and you canactually see what it's going to
look like.
Not like a size seven rendering.
It's your size 4.25 or size 13,whatever you want it to be, and
it's manufacturable.
So long way of saying to allthe jewelry designers who were
upset in the first 90% of thepod you know, I think we're

(52:05):
going to generate more businessfor you than ever because we're
getting people thinking customand those people who want full
custom are not going toultimately buy a product from
the ring builder.
They're going to use it asinspo and then they're going to
upgrade themselves to that fullprocess.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
What a really interesting and very well put
way to kind of handle that andI'm so sorry to put you on the
spot, but it is something Ithink about is that like
creativity?
I mean, my semi-professionalkind of job is I'm a watercolor
painter and I sometimes think islike, will AI come for me?
And I sometimes think it's likeit could, if you want it for

(52:44):
just the image, but if you wantthe product, well then suddenly
you want like the paper, and thepaper has, you know, this kind
of tactile feel to it and it'sslightly different.
And when you start to talkabout, yeah, suits are, that's a
great one.
Another object luxury clothing.
Um, it's occupies the sameniche as as jewelry.
And you're right, I do want acustom suit.

(53:06):
I don't really want to pay fora custom suit, but I do kind of.
I, the best suit I own is aslightly custom suit.
I got, yeah, from you know,like you pick from seven
different things and like 15different things, and the way
that, uh, um, variations work isthat, yeah, you multiply them

(53:26):
against each other and thensuddenly there's, you know, the
combinatorics are crazy yeah,where'd you get?
where'd you get the?

Speaker 3 (53:31):
suit, by the way just a bank just a yeah, yeah, so
yeah, I mean, it's the samething, like there's, um, there's
a company called Charles to wit.
I don't know if you're familiarwith it, but they had a store
right around the corner from ouroffice in New York and every
day on my way into work at StoneAlgo I would see the Charles to
wit store and they had a designyour own suit thing on their

(53:54):
website and it was the samething it was you choose the
lining and you choose the colorof the exterior, and you choose
whether it's two or threebuttons and they'd render it and
then you could order it andit's like man, this, this
concept applies in so manydifferent industries and I think
that, like you just said, likeyou didn't go full custom but

(54:14):
you went semi-custom and youdidn't go off the rack either.
Right, like that middle, thatmiddle territory is where most
people are gonna fall, becauseit scratches the itch enough,
but it doesn't cost $10,000.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
And.
But it also does spark thatessence of um in UX.
I always talk about the lightUm, it sparks the the it's.
It is mine, it's my suit, it'swhen I go to a wedding I know no
one's going to have the samesuit as me because I customized
my suit.
But at the same time, like didI go to you know Italy and have
them take my measurements and,like you know, hand cut all the

(54:51):
cloth.
It's like no, that's beyondthat.
But I do think that there is amarket for that still.
But I do think that there is amarket for that still.
And it's almost like you'rejust offering more of a spectrum
, a visible spectrum, as opposedto more of like kind of a
sliver, if you will.
So I think that's really wellput, Devin.
I think that that's great.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
Yeah, definitely.
And I think, the last thing Iwould say.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
There is like did you design the suit online or did
you go in and design it.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
I went in and designed it with them.
So for somebody who's who'sinteracting online like charles,
to wit, or if you're designinga car and you're actually in the
market for that car you're notjust having fun um, you grow
more attached to something thatyou've put time into and you've
customized for yourself.
Right, you now only can havethat special thing like nothing

(55:43):
else is going to be as specialto you.
And so if those if buyingsomething out of the case is the
same price as buying a customring, like you said, everyone
would buy the custom ring.
Um, and we can make semi-customcomparable in price to out of
the case and obviously, on thespectrum, semi-custom is closer

(56:04):
to custom.
So semi-custom should cost moreif it's priced comparable and
the jeweler's in control oftheir markup here, so they can
price it higher if they want,but people are going to opt for
it and the conversion rate isgoing to be higher.
You're going to lose lesscustomers who keep exploring and
end up going to an onlineretailer from some huge
conglomerate I'm not going toname names because I don't want

(56:26):
to get blurred out but somebodyis more likely to continue with
the local retailer who they'realready interacting with,
because they've designedsomething special to them and
that lives on that website.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
I definitely agree.
I think custom stuff, man, itreally just scratches that itch
in it and it becomes yours.
I think you're totally right on.
But, devin, if these people arelistening and they're
interested in trying this newtool out, where can they go to
learn more and maybe starttalking with you about this?

Speaker 3 (56:55):
Yeah, they can go to get jeweler, oscom.
So that's get g e, t, jeweler,the American spelling, and then
OS, which stands for operatingsystemcom.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Awesome and I'll have all that information in the
show notes below, and thanks somuch for talking with me.
I really, when I went to, whenI went to JCK, your guys's booth
was, you know, the one, thevendor that that was really
standing out to me and I thoughtit was a really interesting and
novel kind of way ofapproaching things.
I think you're totally right onwith the semi-custom route
being one of the ways forward,so I think it was a really cool

(57:31):
conversation.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Yeah, thanks for having me and, yeah, I hope we
talk again soon.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Thanks everybody.
We'll be back next week,Tuesday, with another episode.
Check them out.
Bye, all right, everybody.
That's the end of the show.
Thanks so much for listening.
My guest this week was DevinJones of Stone Algo.
Check them out in the shownotes below.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and

(58:00):
hosted by me, michael Burpo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cockrum.
Don't forget to rate thepodcast on Spotify and Apple
Podcasts and leave us feedbackon punchmarkcom slash loop.
It's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks, and we'll be back nextweek, tuesday, with another
episode.
Cheers, thanks, and we'll beback next week, tuesday, with

(58:20):
another episode cheers bye.