A Conversation with Daryl Watson

Ian and Jim have a conversation with Ian's old friend Daryl Watson, who, along with his wife, recently served as a mission leader of the Belgium/Netherlands Mission for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_02 (00:14):
Hello and welcome to the latest episode of Inside
Out.
I'm Ian Wilkes and I'm here withthe most distinguished Mr.
Jim Bennett.

SPEAKER_00 (00:25):
Hello.
I'm feeling distinguished, sothey can't see me, so they don't
know how undistinguished Iactually look.
So I can sound distinguished nomatter how I look.

SPEAKER_02 (00:37):
Yes, and with where we are on, you know, getting a
little bit older here, we'recertainly looking distinguished.
Jim, I'm really excited aboutthis week's podcast.
I've been looking forward to itfor a while.
We've been trying to coordinateour schedules.
And I feel honoured, actually,to introduce this very special
guest on the podcast, DarylWatson from Scotland.

(01:00):
Daryl, welcome to Inside Out.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03):
Well, thank you very much, Ian.
It's a delight to be here withyou all the way from Bonny,
Scotland.
Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12):
But wonderful.
And as I say, it's a real honor.
Just as an extension to myintroduction, just for a couple
of minutes, I just want to sharebriefly just my experience with
you going back now to 87, 1987.
Because my experience withyourself and certainly your

(01:33):
parents had a very profound,quite extraordinary impact on my
life.
And I think I speak for ElderJacobs as well.
And so...
For those who are listening, youwill know that Jim Bennett and I
served our missions together inScotland.
We never served as companions.
I don't know if I was worthyenough to serve with Jim

(01:54):
Bennett, or if he was worthyenough to serve with me.
I don't know.
And so I came out in the early1987 at President Dunn.
Darrell, you remember him?
Joel Dunn was the missionpresident at the time.
And I served in Dumfries.
And then I fell in love with theDumfries people and didn't want

(02:15):
to leave.
I got quite emotional leavingthat day.
I didn't understand the conceptof transfers, by the way.
Having not grown up in thechurch and joining when I was
16, I'd heard about it, but itwas very difficult to...
disconnect myself fromrelationships that I'd grown
very fond of.
And they all said in Dumfries,where are you going?
I said, I'm going toDunfermline.

(02:37):
Oh, you love Dunfermline.
It's amazing.
I don't want to go toDunfermline.
I want to stay in Dumfries.
I was just so in love with thepeople there.
Anyway, so we arrived inDunfermline, I think in May 87.
And Ella Jacobs and I hadbeen...
When we arrived there, we werebrand new.
The other missionaries, ElderSpencer and Elder Blazard, who

(02:58):
you know, Daryl.
And Jim, you know these twomissionaries.
We love them.
We're lifelong friends.
We keep in touch, of course.
And we saw them at the reunion,Daryl.
We went to a reunion about a fewmonths ago, Jim.
at President Banks' home.
Carol, we went there.

SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
Ben Banks.

SPEAKER_02 (03:17):
Ben Banks' home.
We had a big mission reunion.
Spencer was there.
Elder Blaser was there.
Jamie, you came along.
It was a wonderful experience.
And so we replaced Ella Spencerand Blaser.
They were shipped to havesomewhere else.
And Jacobs and I arrivedwhitewashed, you know, cranny to
the area.
And so we found, you know, thefirst week was getting to know

(03:37):
the members, getting to know thearea.
And the two individuals that wemet very quickly, there's two.
First of all, we met the BrigCafe people.
You remember those?

SPEAKER_01 (03:50):
But it's still there.

SPEAKER_02 (03:52):
It's still there.
So, Jim, this is a fish and chipshop and a kebab shop and a King
Ribs shop.
This is still King Ribs.
I remember that.
And they used to feed themissionaries and they just loved
the missionaries.
And the missionaries used to goto this fish and chip shop for
years.
And we arrived and introducedourselves.
So we had this immediatefriendship at the...

(04:12):
Brig Cafe, I remember that, justdown the road from where we were
staying as missionaries there.
And the other two people that wemet was your mom and dad.
Your dad was the bishop, JackieWatson.
That's his first name.
I don't know if that's hisofficial first name, but I think
his first name was Jackie.

(04:33):
And Bishop Watson, I rememberthe first time meeting him, he
was just...
Adorable.
He was the kindest.
Both your parents were thekindest, most loving, most
spiritual, most humble peopleI've ever met.
In fact, I wasn't alwaysdiligent on my journal.

(04:54):
Did pretty good.
Didn't always fill it in.
But I've got almost two pages inmy mission journal on your mom
and dad.
And the time I was there withJacobs, Jim, and I think we've
talked, I've mentioned these twoindividuals on previous
podcasts.

(05:15):
Ella Jacobs and I absolutelyfell in love with Daryl's
parents.
We couldn't meet a kinder,nicer, more humble, more
helpful, more caring couple.
The respect for your dad in thatward was extraordinary.
And I don't want to go too longon this, but your dad in

(05:42):
particular had a very personalimpact on me and Jacob's as
well.
We had dinner at your mom anddad's place a few times.
And Jim, he was one of thefinest bishops I've ever met.
And I actually, I was overseasin Europe and I heard that,
Daryl, your dad passed away.

SPEAKER_01 (06:03):
And

SPEAKER_02 (06:04):
I flew back.
And I don't do this, Jim, veryoften.
I flew back especially.
And I went to the funeral.
I could not miss that.
I was there.
Brendan Swanee was there.
I met with Brendan Swaneebriefly.
Elder Kerr was there at thetime.
And there was almost no standingroom.
This man had impacted so many.

(06:27):
who had traveled far and wide toshow their respect.
And I think I'd learned for thefirst time during that, I think
you spoke, Daryl, at thefuneral, I think.
And I think you conducted, ifI'm not mistaken.
And I learned that he was arailway man for the first time.
I think he worked on therailways going back.

(06:47):
But he is, out of the manypeople I met on my mission, I
met many, he is one that stoodout most I thought about him so
much and think about him attimes more than most, frankly.
That's my introduction.
You and I, when we moved intothe area, I'd forgotten that

(07:10):
you'd been back from yourmission two years.
Paul, your friend, I think mayhave just got back.
I can't remember.
And then we went, Jacobs and Iwent tracting with you, I think
within a few weeks of yougetting back.
And Jim, I thought I was good onthe door, but Daryl and Paul,
Paul Bishop, a wonderful guy.
I mean, these were seasonedreturn missionaries and we

(07:31):
learned a thing or two aboutfrom Daryl and Paul about, you
know, knocking on doors, which Ialways struggled with that.
So that's my introduction.
You come from an amazing family,Daryl.
I absolutely adore your family.
I was honored to work with youat the time.
And that is my way ofintroducing you.

(07:54):
We would be delighted to hearmore about you and your story.
You know, growing up in thechurch, There's a lot about you
that are still yet to learn.
Your experience of the church,youth growing up.
You served a mission.
We'd love to hear about that.
You got married.
You have a family.
You're still in the temple.
You've served in some of themost significant leadership

(08:15):
callings in the church.
And we'd love you to share yourexperience on that.
And I know we have, Jim and Ihave got a few questions.
when you share your experience.
So could you, enough of metalking, could you just take us
through a bit of your experiencegrowing up in the church, what
that was like, your family,mission, etc.

SPEAKER_01 (08:37):
Sure, thanks Ian.
So thank you for being sogracious about my parents.
Dad, yeah, he passed away 2005.
Mum's still alive.
She's nearly 90 in July.
Well, she'll be 90 in July.
I grew up in church.
My dad joined the church in1961.

(08:59):
Mum took another couple of yearsto come along and join in 1963.
A couple of missionaries knockedon their door in Trondheim
Parkway.
The key one was Royce CliftonYoung from Kanab, Utah.
Shortly after my dad joined thechurch in 1961, it was only a

(09:20):
few months later, he was calledto serve as the branch president
in Dunfermline.
And he served as a branchpresident from 1962 all the way
through to 1975 when Dunfermlinebranch, as it was, became a
ward.
He had a little bit of abreather.
They gave him a little bit of abreather for maybe, I think it

(09:41):
was seven years.
And then he was called back asthe bishop and he served for
another.
And so he did 13 years and thenhe did another 13 years as a
bishop.
So when you were serving, Ian,he was already five years in on
his second term.
So in total, he served as theshepherd in Dunfermline for 26

(10:03):
years.
We love him.
His name was John Watson, but hewas called Giant Jackie, and you
know he was just a small manphysically, but spiritually he
was a giant, and he touchedmany, many people's lives,
including us children and mymother.
I think my mother had a lot toendure over the years because he

(10:24):
was constantly away, but she wasvery supportive.
I grew up in church, had a fewexperiences growing up, one of
which was pretty significant andI think it impacted me in a big
way.
First year at high school, youmight remember Woodmill High
School, Ian and Dunfermline.
I don't know if you rememberWoodmill.

(10:45):
But in the English class, I wasonly a member of the church in
the high school at that time.
So I was in a high school ofabout 1,600 kids and I was only
one member of the church.
But in English, the Englishteacher said one thing morning
early in the new year he says doany of you go to church and I

(11:10):
thought well I do and put yourhands up if you go to church so
Kenny Gingerly I put my hand upand then Kenny looked around and
was then you know I was sittingon the front row and realised oh

(11:31):
my goodness I'm the only foolwho's put their hand up and I
And so from that day onwards, Ibecame the religious
correspondent in the Englishclass.
So any religious topical thingthat came up about faith,
Darrell here got to speak on thetopic.

(11:52):
And of course, it would comewith an LDS slant at the same
time because that's all I knew.
I didn't know anything else.
But that had a big impact on mebecause from a young age, talk
and share about my faith infront of a class of kids.

(12:12):
Grew up through church, wasalways active, I was called as
a, I was a ward clerk when I was16, I don't know how my dad did
that because you know you're notto be a ward clerk until you're
a Melchizedek priesthood holderbut anyway, I was a ward clerk
and then I was a I was called ona mission in 1983.

(12:33):
I served an England-Londonmission with A.
Harold Goodman.
I was only the 18-month missionsat that time.
I went out and I came back andjust at the very end, it was
changing back to two years.
But I was already heading tocollege and stuff.

(12:55):
So I came home May of 1985.
That's when I got back from theEngland-London mission.
And I loved it.
It was tremendous.
I served in Shepherd's Bush.
I served out in Chelmsford,Whittam area.
Served in Luton and Watford.
And finally, I served up inCambridge.

(13:17):
And I loved my time and mymission.
I've been over to Utah a fewtimes now.
I was over actually in Decemberand I got to meet up with three
of my companions actually.
Well, I stayed with one whomarried a Scottish girl.
I stayed with him.
That wasn't getting handy.
Kelly Gray.
And then I visited with MartyAndrews and Clark Christensen.

(13:38):
So it was just great.
I hadn't seen Clark in 40 years.
And you guys know what it's likewhen you meet up with your old
companions you haven't seen inyears and years and years.
So very fortunate to have a goodrelationship with them.
Came back off my mission, datedfor a few years, graduated from
university.
No one was willing to have me.

(14:00):
I was, I don't know, just thatwas it.
I must have been a pricklycharacter.
And then a certain Dutch girlcame to Scotland and served in
Scotland and she ended uptowards the end of her mission
here in Dunfermline by that timeI was serving as a ward mission
leader but I yeah I was actuallyengaged to another girl at the

(14:25):
time but anyway she worked hermagic on me and she went home
Nothing happened on the mission.
She went home and then we got intouch.
And frankly, a year later, youknow, the rest is history.
I was married a year later.
We lived in the Netherlands fora little while and then came

(14:47):
back to Dunfermline so I couldfinish all my studies in
Edinburgh, actually.
I've settled in Dunfermline, gota job.
I was called as bishop and wehad our first marriage.
child, Kyle.
He's studying for his PhD downin Liverpool now.
It's in his third year.
He's getting married thisSeptember.
His fiancée has just joined andshe's a lovely girl.

(15:12):
And then I've got a daughter,Megan.
She's married in Glasgow andwe've just had a little
grandson.
And then our youngest daughter,Christy, is studying in
Edinburgh.
So we've three kids.
I served as bishop for six yearsand then released and I was
called the stake president and Iserved as stake president in the

(15:33):
Dundee stake and for nine and ahalf years or so.
Then I served as the UKCommunication Director of Public
Affairs.
I got involved with lots ofstuff, radio, TV, government
relations, interfaith.
Wow, I just had a great time.
And then Monique and I have justrecently come back from the

(15:53):
Belgian Netherlands mission,where she and I were the mission
leaders.
And we had 332 missionaries.
We went out at the end of COVIDtimes.
None of this kind of fancy bigvisits to America for us.
No, no, just straight into thefield.
And then we've had a fantasticthree years.

(16:14):
Coming home has been a bit toughpicking up my business again.
They give you a little bit ofwarning.
They say after three years ofbeing really busy, which you
are, You're on the go 365, 24-7.
You come back and you're like,whoa, the fourth year is the
hardest year.
And quite frankly, Ian and Jim,this fourth year's been pretty

(16:37):
tough to come back and kick thebusiness off again and trying to
get it going.
So that's in a nutshell aboutme.
I've got lots of stories I cantell you and I'm interested in
any questions you've got and I'mhappy to share some specific
stories if you like.
But yeah, there you go.
I feel very fortunate to havehad such an opportunity to be

(16:58):
blessed and to serve in so manydifferent responsibilities.

SPEAKER_00 (17:04):
Well, I'm very curious.
So about your mission presidencyexperience.

UNKNOWN (17:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (17:11):
Particularly in Belgium, because, well, first of
all, what language did youspeak?
Did you have to learn alanguage?
And

SPEAKER_01 (17:19):
I speak Netherlands.
I speak Dutch.
My wife's Dutch.
And so we were responsible foreverything above Brussels,
north.
So if you can think of ahorizontal line, just kind of
the middle of Brussels, which iskind of Dutch and French
speaking.
We were speaking Flemish, whichis a variation of Dutch.

(17:40):
And then in the Netherlands,it's Dutch, of course.
And I'm pretty fluent in Dutchnow, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (17:46):
So were your missionaries all trained in
Dutch?
to come to your missions?

SPEAKER_01 (17:52):
They had a few weeks in the MTC and they came in with
very basic Dutch.
But over the course of theirtime there, most of them became
fairly proficient.
Some excelled.
There were some who wereabsolutely hopeless.
But, you know, the Dutch, unlikesome other missions where they

(18:15):
don't speak English very well,there's not too many Dutch that
don't speak Really good English.
So

SPEAKER_00 (18:22):
there you go.
I would think that that wouldprobably be the case.
I'm very interested, though, interms of the kind of reception
that you got.
Because all the reports that Ihear are that all of Europe is
really sort of struggling interms of church growth, in terms

(18:42):
of church retention.
And so...
I'd be very interested to hearyour firsthand report from the
front lines.
Is that a very seriouschallenge?
Did you see any success as amission?

SPEAKER_01 (18:59):
So, Jim, I would stand you corrected, my friend.
I think you've been being fedsome pretty much nonsensical
rubbish over a long period oftime.
The church is actually startingto really flourish and grow in
Europe again.
In fact, I would say, quitehonestly, we are living in a
golden age of growth in Europeonce more.

(19:21):
Really?
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Let me tell you why.
So during COVID times, we wentout right at the end of COVID.
So we arrived in the missionin...
June of 2021.
And unquestionably, those weredifficult times.
You know, everybody kind ofbecame reclusive.
There was lots of challenges.

(19:43):
Services were cancelled.
Everything was on Zoom.
And then over these, certainlyin the last three years that we
have seen quite exceptionalgrowth in areas that were
formerly very difficult topreach the gospel in.
So all across Europe.
And I think it's probably anumber of factors.

(20:06):
One number factor is the numberof immigrants coming into Europe
now.
It's huge.
I mean, Europe is a place wherewe have seen massive amounts of
movement of people.
all across the nations ofEurope, resulting in a lot of
curiosity about faith, a lot ofpeople looking to actually

(20:31):
recover faith.
And fascinating, the thing thatI always found fascinating, Jim,
was the number of Muslim peoplewho are having dreams, about
Jesus Christ and coming toChrist.
They're not just our Christianfaith, but they'll want to join
many a Christian faith.

(20:51):
And so there's a number ofpeople moving from the Muslim
world into the Christian world.
That's causing a lot of problemsfor them should they return
home.
The church has got pretty strictguidelines and policies on that
because if you join a Christianfaith and you go home, you're
likely to be killed, frankly.
It's quite serious, quite aserious thing.

(21:12):
So we saw, in our time, we sawgrowth after growth after
growth, year on year.
And since we've come home, it'scontinued.
In fact, we're running at doublethe growth we had the year we
left.
So in the Belgian Netherlandsmission.
Yes, it's hard.
Yes, it's tough.
No, we are not South America orAfrica in terms of where that is

(21:36):
just, you know, crazy growth allthe time.
But yeah, we are returning to aposition of strength across
Europe.
And that's the way I see it.
And I think the second reasonwould be, quite frankly, the
church has now figured out howto utilize social media.
Period.

(21:57):
And the social media, the wayit's utilized across...
So Ian, you were talking aboutgoing knocking doors.
So when the missionaries cameinto the Belgium Netherlands
mission at their orientationmeeting, I would say something
like this.
I would become the best socialmedia individual in this

(22:18):
mission.
If you choose to waste your timeand go knocking on doors, you
will do just that.
You will waste your time.
And it's very unlikely thatyou'll ever find anybody.
So you'd be far better becominga social media expert, finding
people online and finding peopleon the street next to working

(22:40):
with your members.
Because the members, 50% of ournew converts in Belgium and
Netherlands came through memberwork.
45% came through social media.
And the remaining 5% was all theother ways combined.
So social media and themigration of people has been a

(23:04):
big impact across Europe and theway the church is growing.

SPEAKER_00 (23:08):
That's actually very exciting to hear because my
sons, I have twin boys, and theyserved missions in Argentina
right before COVID or rightduring COVID.
So they were out for sevenmonths.
The church recalled all theirmissionaries.
And so they came home afterseven months, and then they were
reassigned to missions in theUnited States.

(23:34):
But they reported sort of thesame thing in terms of what was
effective.
And from their perspective, thechurch was just really sort of
starting to figure out how touse social media.
And it sounds like that thatprocess has accelerated and that

(23:55):
that's working a whole lotbetter, particularly under your
leadership while you were there.

SPEAKER_01 (24:00):
Yeah.
I'm a bit of a, as Ian probablyknows, I'm a bit of a social
media fan myself.
I'm a bit of a regular bloggerand poster.
And so I actively encouraged allof our missionaries to blog and
to share their thoughts andfeelings.
But now, not only that, but themissionary department has

(24:22):
really, they have a reallystrong presence with,
specifically on Facebook.
So Facebook has been a, andInstagram to some degree not
TikTok or anything like that orSnapchat or you know X as it is
now but certainly Facebookthere's a huge way to find

(24:46):
people and people are veryreceptive you can have really
good conversations online andyeah I think there's a sea
change in the way that we dothings I was on BBC Radio 4
recently for the church and theywere asking me about our
experience in evangelism andthere was an Anglican minister

(25:09):
and a muslim lady and they weretalking to me about you know
what's the most effective way tofind people and i was saying
well you know your friends butthen it was really social media,
and it was an eye-opener for theother two.
They really hadn't cottoned onto it.
I think the church is reallynow, in a big way, leading the

(25:30):
way in using social media toactually express themselves, and
they're not frightened aboutputting everything out there.
I mean, everything's out therenow in terms of online.
So it's made a big difference.

SPEAKER_02 (25:45):
Yeah.
The...
from the time that we also hadour missions you came back in 85
Jim you and I came back in 89 Ithink it was and we spent as you
know Daryl in London in Scotlandwe spent every waking hour
knocking on doors we got a fewreferrals when we got referrals
it was you know manna fromheaven that We didn't always get

(26:09):
referrals from members.
That was always a challenge.
We had that Year My Friendsprogram.
Oh, yeah.
Elder Bower did, if you rememberthat.
But we spent most of the day, 10hours a day knocking on doors,
and we didn't get very far.
And so the church has come along way, very sophisticated in
regards to social media.

(26:30):
You said that it's found itsway, become very efficient at
that.
Very different experience fromJim when you and I, well, we're
all three were serving missions.
In terms of the physicaloperations, the mechanics, what
does that look like?
Is it missionaries sat in frontof a computer, literally, going
on a Facebook, for example, andfinding people that they don't

(26:53):
know?
What's that process look like?
I mean, you've got the referralprogram with the members.
So that, you know, you mentionedthe percentage of...
Success came from them, which itsounds amazing.
By the way, the comment you madeearlier about Europe, the
resurgence of growth in Europe,for reasons that have explained,
I never really fully understoodthat, Jim, until now that

(27:15):
Daryl's talking about that.
Because there's big parts ofEurope, as far as I understand,
that are quite secular.
But with those people coming in,it's kind of a renewal from what
Daryl's saying, which is great.

UNKNOWN (27:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (27:27):
But from the mystery mechanics, getting up in the
morning, could you walk usthrough the day of a mystery?
I mean, you get up at 6.30.
You have your prayers and yourcompanion inventory, as we call
it in Scotland, personal study.
There's breakfast.
There's half an hour planningthe day.
Leave the flat at 9.30.

(27:48):
Or do they stay in the flat?
Or do they go to an office andsit in front of a laptop?
A laptop, right, would you nowgo?
I'm completely different to whatyou and I experienced, Jim, and
you, Daryl.
And so it goes through all thesenames or whatever on Facebook.
Could you walk us through thatprocess?
What's that look like?
sure

SPEAKER_01 (28:06):
so it's yeah very similar to our day in the field
so up at 6 30 structured day 630 back in the apartment at
night by 9 9 30 okay um but inbetween it has changed
significantly um so preach mygospel uh the you know the new

(28:26):
edition second edition you'llfind all the information in
there but effectively morningroutines is different they might
they're probably now mostmissions won't get them out
their mission till around noonuh lunchtime so a lot of study
companion study personal studyin the morning they'll do

(28:47):
language study in our mission ofcourse because that was a big
part um they would dopreparatory stuff in the morning
so really mornings are arereally a lot of time spent just
getting organized and planningeverything In their apartment
then?
In their apartment, yeah.
So that would generally take,unless you've got a, district

(29:09):
council or uh used to call themdistrict meetings we call it
they were called districtcouncils now or you've got zone
conference or something likethat or the pd the preparation
day so but it's all driven nowby their their phones okay so
very few of them will havelaptops um for a social media

(29:30):
they'll have they'll have ineach mission you'll have social
media missionaries and i'llexplain that if you like but on
the phones they all havesomething called a PMG app okay
so the PMG app is preach mygospel app and that is really
the that controls everything soso for instance typically I was

(29:53):
just back over actually in themission I was with a
professionally with a client inBrussels and I met up with a few
of the missionaries in Antwerpand And I was asking them, how
many referrals are they gettingnow?
And so when I left, they weregetting around about six to 800
a month or so.

(30:14):
Now they're getting well over athousand referrals.
So there's lots of things goingon all the time in terms of
that.
But So if there's a Facebook ad,so there'll be a Facebook ad,
someone somewhere in Belgium orthe Netherlands will click on
that ad and literally as soon asthey've clicked on that ad,
within less than 30 seconds,that referral will pop up on

(30:39):
their phone in PMG.
And then they can respond tothat individual and there's
usually at any one time at leastthree campaigns running on
Facebook.
social media or Instagram.
So the missionaries willrespond.
They tend to respond within twominutes.
If you get a response within twominutes, you're going to have a

(30:59):
much more chance of success intalking with them.
And so then they'll then go andphysically see that person or
they will have a call with thatindividual online.
So that is a big part of whatthey do.
Yes, they still go streetcontacting a lot.
Yes, they'll go to members'houses for dinner appointments.
But another part of social mediais that they'll actively...

(31:21):
probably contact people in aspecific area.
So if they were serving in...
Utrecht.
And if they were in Utrecht,they would join little Facebook
groups in Utrecht or they wouldlook for people.
They're all pretty good onsocial media so they can look
online, find people and thenbasically just try and befriend

(31:42):
them or share a message withthem.
And that accounts for a fairnumber of new convert baptisms
as well.
So there's that constantly goingon.
And I think, yeah, that's how itworks.
It's pretty slick now.
Then they'll have their usualother activities through the day
and they'll probably do a bit ofstreet contact and they may do
some street meetings they'll dosome other kind of work but

(32:04):
social media will generally takeup a big part now that said not
all of the missionaries likesocial media and are quite
hesitant to use it and franklyit's created a few challenges as
well in terms of the behaviorsonline and you've got to be
pretty strict with that but yeahthe results frankly guys speaks

(32:25):
for themselves

SPEAKER_00 (32:28):
So what kind, well, maybe this is too loaded a
question, but as a missionpresident, what kind of
behaviors online did you have toworry about?
How did missionaries get intotrouble?

SPEAKER_01 (32:40):
Yeah, so you can read about that in the standards
for missionaries, thediscipleship of Christ.
But the kind of things that wewould encourage them to do was
always to have, you know,working on their phones side by
side so that they can see eachother's screens.
One of the things that we teachsome is they don't take their

(33:03):
phones into the toilet or intothe bathroom, so they leave them
outside.
There were some of them whostruggled with their behaviours
from pre-mission.
and bringing those behavioursinto the mission.
So they could be scrolling forhours on end or watching things

(33:27):
that they shouldn't be.
But the missionary devices arefairly well controlled.
So there's a piece of softwarecalled Mass on your device,
which really just limits themfrom what they can actually do.
So there's a bit of...
and a bit of a protection builtin there.
But some of the challenges werethe kind of typical things that

(33:49):
you would imagine.
Some of them were able to bypassthose things and then you'd find
out or others would accessthings that they shouldn't have
done.
And yeah, although I was able towork with them in that challenge
and just loving them and helpingthem and encouraging them to
keep their minds focused, itmade a difference.

SPEAKER_02 (34:12):
This is fascinating.
In Scotland, you know, and themissionaries, I'm sure today,
very strict standards, Jim, inScotland, in missions.
You know, we had President Dunnewas hyper strict.
We even had to work B-days.
And very strict rules andregulations about missionary
conduct.
You know, the White Handbook,you had to really keep your mind

(34:36):
in check, right?

UNKNOWN (34:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (34:38):
And there is an interview before you go on a
mission, the bishop interviews,you've got to be morally clean
and worthy.
And those standards haven'tchanged.
Or have they slightly changed,Daryl?
Is there...
How do I phrase this?
Is there...
Again, on my mission, myexperience, very strict in terms

(34:59):
of maintaining the standards,living with exactness, being
morally pure.
And the message is that if youare not...
with your thoughts and any otheraction behavior, you lose the
spirit.
And the teaching there has notchanged.
Has, from your perspective, is alittle bit more, what's the
word, patience maybe orunderstanding dealing with young

(35:22):
missionaries with those kind ofchallenges?
Or is it still as strict fromwhen all three of us were
serving on our missions in theU.K.?

UNKNOWN (00:00):
?

SPEAKER_01 (35:34):
So that's a great question, Ian.
So let me answer that.
This may be a littlelong-winded, but you think about
this, what we've just beenthrough.
So we've been through threeyears of missionary leadership.
So three years, translating thatinto mission speak, is 27

(35:55):
transfers of six weeks of 42days of transfer, okay?
So we've repeated that cycle 27times and in that cycle we
inherited a whole bunch ofmissionaries when we went in
then we had our own missionariesfor a period and then we passed
them on that's how it worksthat's the operational mechanism

(36:16):
of a mission so the missionariesgenerally will go through a few
weeks in the mtc we have one ofthe mtcs in the world they will
to get to the mtc you have to bemindful to be a missionary
There's more expected of you.
There's certain standards andobligations and procedures that

(36:38):
they will have had to havereached in order to come on the
mission, whether it's aproselyting mission now or a
service mission, because manynow are going on service
missions rather than going onproselyting missions.
Today, we have 450 missionsglobally.
That's how many there are.

(36:59):
And typically, you'll transitionout a new mission leader or
leaders 140, 150 every year.
Every June, it's transitioningout.
So there's a lot of change.
And missionaries are constantlychanging in field.
Now, how do you know what'shappening with your
missionaries?
It's really easy.

(37:20):
In our mission, we had acomplement of 130 missionaries.
So every transfer, Monique andI, visited with a little
coaching session with everysingle missionary.
You guys probably had it withPrez at Dunn.
Now, those interviews or thosecoaching interviews, I would see
them and Monique would see them.

(37:42):
And we spoke about differentthings.
Those were critical inunderstanding where a missionary
was.
Now, they would come in and Icould guarantee you that if you
were getting an Americanmissionary coming in in October,
November, December, coming in adark and dreary, cold, weary,
wet Netherlands for a dark, longwinter season, they'd be pretty

(38:05):
depressed on general, okay?
So you'd have to work with themand help them through that
winter period.
The expectations we have of themis very high.
High love, high expectations.
And Monique and I, from theoutset, quite frankly, we
couldn't have cared two hootsabout how many people they

(38:26):
taught and baptized.
But what we did care about wasthen, one by one, we loved them.
And all 332 of thosemissionaries are now our very,
very, very best friends.
They're like our kids.
We just love them.

(38:46):
And we came to know thempersonally, individually.
And when you've got that lovefor them, you can really empower
them.
So we had our missionaries, wegave them a really long leash
and some of them failed and someof them got themselves into
trouble.
But let me tell you that whenthey did fail, we never had any

(39:08):
more rules other than what wasexpected in the discipleship.
We'd call it the white handbecause it's no longer white
because it's all in line.
You know, when you love them,and help them to recognize that
they're a child of God, then,you know, they just, they became
empowered.
And when they became empowered,they went out and taught with

(39:29):
great love and passion.
And we found that way a reallypowerful way to help every
missionary raise their ownstandard.
That was a long-winded answer.
I hope it answers the question.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (39:42):
that's an amazing answer.
You know, the great motivator inthe gospel is love.
You know, look at Christ, love.
You know, I think Prison Bankstaught us that, you know,
different reasons.
Remember those trainingsessions, Jim, where there was a
session on, you know, whatmotivates a missionary?
Well, obedience, guilt, exceptif you went through a different,

(40:03):
I think it was a pyramid modelhe showed.
Prison Banks was more of abusiness kind of leader model.
President Dunne was more like aSergeant Major.
I thought I'd join the army withPresident Dunne, but anyway.
So, and President Banks said theultimate motivator is love,
right?
Is love.
And so if people feel driven andmotivated by love and you

(40:24):
clearly, it's absolutelyabundantly clear that you led
your missionaries with love.
And that is the ultimate goaland level that I think Jesus
Christ, wants people to serveand to live their lives.
And I think when you feel that,you feel you want to be your

(40:44):
best.
I remember I did three minormistakes on my mission.
I slept in twice by accident,felt very guilty.
And another time I took themissionaries inadvertently
outside of the zone.
Inadvertently?

(41:05):
Are you really going to tell methat

SPEAKER_00 (41:07):
that was inadvertent?

SPEAKER_02 (41:08):
Well, there was a big question.
You were on that trip, and therewas a question matter.
It was not that trip, but I cameinto the zone right after that
trip.
That's right.
Well, there was a question, andI got a different opinion from
different missionaries.
There was an older Casper thatwas saying, Elder Wilkes, you're
good.
You can go to, you know, thisfar.
And so, you know, differentviews on that.

(41:28):
Anyway, long story short, Daryl,I took the mission outside of
the zone.
you know, with good intention onthe P-Day.
And I spoke to President Banksand his words were, Elder
Wilkes, I expected more.
I'm disappointed.
And that just crushed me.
And so I just, I said, I'm sosorry.
I felt so terrible.

(41:50):
And just that, just because Ihad so much love and respect for
him and he'd spent so much timewith me in the missionaries,
just like what you did,investing, you know, I didn't
feel President Dunne wasinterested in me.
But President Banks wasinterested in me.
He took the time to get to knowme personally.
And he was really interested inme and caring.

(42:10):
And I just felt motivated bylove and driven by love.
And clearly, you were aPresident Banks.
Jim, you and I have absolutelyultimate respect for President
Banks.
And you know President Banks,Daryl, as well, right?
So you were a President Banksmissionary.
And I think that's the bestmissions to be in.

(42:31):
Instead of leading by, you know,we had all these tick boxes with
President Dunne and tick thisand tick this and tick that, et
cetera.
And, you know, pressure toconfess if, you know, under
duress at times.
Very different approach,leadership style with President
Banks.
And you felt that you wanted tobe your best and lead your best

(42:51):
because you felt loved.
And clearly you had thatexperience on your mission.
Jim, did you, when you wereserving, did you feel...
motivated by love as well.
That came through PresidentBanks too, did it?

SPEAKER_00 (43:05):
Well, it did come through President Banks.
I think my personal motivationswere really kind of mixed.
I think that in a lot of cases,there's a lot more guilt,
there's a lot more fear, there'sa lot more shame than I think
was healthy or is healthy.

(43:27):
And Daryl, as I listen to youtalk, I hope every single one of
your missionaries recognizedjust how wonderful and unique,
maybe not unique, I mean, Idon't want to denigrate anybody,
other mission presidents outthere, but just how blessed they

(43:49):
were to have a missionpresident.
that was able to say somethinglike, I didn't care two hoots
about how many people theybaptized.
I cared about them.
I mean, that is so absolutelythe right priority.
It's just, you know, so I'm inthe Tabernacle Choir and we just
got back a couple of weeks agofrom a tour in Peru.

(44:13):
And we were in Lima, Peru, andit was just absolutely
wonderful.
And I got an opportunity tovisit I was in an elevator with
two sister missionaries in thehotel we were staying in.
And I said, oh, your sistermissionary's in Peru.
Do you know Neil Manley?
Because Neil Manley is a missionpresident in Lima, Peru.

(44:36):
He's my wife's first cousin, andwe know him and his wife quite
well.
And I went, oh, good, here aresome of Neil's missionaries.
And they said, I have no ideawho that is.
And I went, what?
And they said, there are sevenmissions in Lima, just in the
one city.
I mean, Lima and Peru, it's justexploding.
And we saw that.

(44:58):
We did a concert in the bigsoccer stadium in the center of
the city.
And it was just jammed.
It was like a rock concert.
It was amazing.
But afterwards, somehow, out ofthe tens of thousands of people
that were there, I was able tofind Neil Manley as well.
and had a wonderful conversationwith him about his experience.

(45:21):
And I asked him some kind ofsimilar questions.
And his reaction was exactly thesame as what you're saying, is
that the most important thing isto love the missionaries and to
show and demonstrate that lovefor missionaries.
And, you know, I look at mysons.
who had very different missionexperiences.

(45:43):
One of them had a reallywonderful experience and the
other one, frankly, did not.
And the key difference was themission president and the
attitude of the missionpresident, the attitude of the
mission president toward themissionaries.
So I just, as I hear you talkingabout this, I just think, you

(46:05):
know, this is exactly...
This gives me faith and hope inthe future of the church to know
that people like you have yourpriorities in line and are, I
think, responding to the exampleof Christ in terms of how you
deal with your missionaries andhow you're preaching the gospel.

(46:29):
I am very curious now, when youtalk about the fourth year,
you've now come home, you're nowrestarting your business.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
I mean, cause I talked to likebishops who get released and
they're so involved and they'redoing great.
And then they're released andthey come to church and they
just sit there and they just,it's like, what do I do with

(46:52):
myself?
I I'm going three 65, 24 seven,like you're saying.
And now all of a sudden here Iam.
And I I'm not like, And you'vebeen a bishop, you've been a
stake president, and now you'vebeen a mission president.
That transition's got to beawfully...
What do they have you doing inthe church right now?
Anything?

(47:12):
You in the nursery?

SPEAKER_01 (47:13):
I've just been called as Elder's Quorum
President, but I've also got anadvisor role on several UK
committees.
Let me answer a couple ofquestions.
You've made a few points.
Let me rewind a little bit, andthen I'll answer your question,
Jim.
So, Ian...
you knew my dad very well I'm myfather's son and tried very hard

(47:48):
really hard to to live up tothat example and you know what I
mean and So that's beensomething that's been with me
all my life.
And when I see him, and I will,I'll say, Dad, I did Orchid.

(48:17):
And you know what I mean bythat, Ian.
I do.
So that was a big thing for me,Jim, to...
And importantly, I want to justcorrect both of you a little
bit.
As mission leaders, this wasn'tjust about me as the mission

(48:40):
president.
This was about my wife and I,who equally yoked, led that
mission for three years witheverything that we had and gave
it our all.
And she had as valuable a partand a role to play um together
we we led that mission and wehad we had different

(49:00):
responsibilities there but itwas it was us not me and not her
it was together we led And yourcousin, Jim, they'll be the same
down in Lima, Peru.
Now, the differences in Lima,Peru to Belgium, Netherlands are
vast.
It's a chasm because you've gota vastly different group and

(49:22):
culture there as opposed to asecular nation in the
Netherlands and Belgium who,frankly, if it hadn't been for
these immigrants, would haveprobably been in decline because
there's not a great deal oflocals joining church.
It's much more immigrantsjoining church.
But since returning home, Ithink to your last question,

(49:46):
yeah, I mean, I don't think, andit's hard, I mean, you two will
reflect on your missionary dayspassionately, with great love,
with great emotion, with greatexperiences, highlighting your
life.
Now, Having just been in servefor those three years, I've had,

(50:11):
there wasn't a day that would goby that there wouldn't be some
kind of spiritual confirmationthat we were on the Lord's
errand.
That happened daily.
And then if those things werehappening daily for us as

(50:33):
mission leaders, they werehappening frequently for the
missionaries.
If you look at Elder Cook'srecent talk, Quentin L.
Cook, and he prioritized wherewe should focus our efforts on
the missionaries.
It's the shepherds well beforebaptisms.
It's looking at these youngpeople, these shepherds, because
we were losing far too many ofthem.

(50:54):
They were coming home, fallinginto activity and just leaving
the church.
But by focusing on them in loveis frankly changing the culture
of the way that thesemissionaries are serving in the
mission.
Now, I've come from aleadership, my home-owned
company, leadership,development, training, coaching,

(51:15):
facilitation.
I've been doing that for years.
Others And coming from missionleaders who are coming from big
corporates where they're focusedon, you know, really running a
business.
That's, I think, it brings adifferent culture.
But together, we're trying to doit and build the kingdom.
To your last question, cominghome has been really hard

(51:38):
because all of a sudden, it'sdifficult to slow down.
It's difficult to change thatpace.
So I spoke to two or threereturn mission leaders and asked
their counsel and advice and hesays, you've got to keep
yourself busy.
So those first three or fourmonths back, I've written a

(52:00):
book.
It's in its final edits now.
That kept me busy.
I was immediately, notimmediately, I was about two
months home and they gave mesomething to do back as a
national advisor on UKcommunications.
So I've been involved withgovernment things.
I'm part of the temple committeefor the new temple coming in
Scotland.

(52:20):
And then a couple of weeks ago,a month ago, I was called as
Elder's Quorum President.
But it's hard.
it's been difficult for meprofessionally to build my
business again I mean it's beenreally tough I've been thankful
for savings to be honest becausewe've lived over savings for a
while now and yeah just andyou've got this you know feeling

(52:46):
of your heart is passionatelyback there in the Netherlands
and with the people and you wereliving at a much higher purpose
you were on the Lord's errandand then you're released and
you're kind of like how am Igoing to match that and you
never will We never will.
We'll never have thatopportunity again to do it.

(53:10):
And so I coach all 332 of mymissionaries.
I give them free sessions.
I constantly, today I've had twosessions already.
And every day I'm speaking withthem about the future to try and
try and help them but to keepthat feeling going and it's it's
it's difficult because i need toplace that that happened i need

(53:32):
to move on in my life um and andi think yeah all of those things
come in so it's just reallytough really tough jim

SPEAKER_00 (53:42):
so so two questions what is your business that
you're rebuilding and what isyour book about So the

SPEAKER_01 (53:49):
business, I have my own.
So primarily coaching.
I do a lot of coachingone-on-one.
So I work with senior leadersand I coach them to become
better leaders and deal with allthe issues that they're dealing
with as a senior leader.
Or I'll work with seniormanagement teams and coach them
in team coaching sessions.
I build leadership programs.

(54:11):
I design them.
I facilitate them, you know,pretty much UK, Europe.
I've done it globally for awhile.
And I'm doing a bit recently,it's much more around
neurodivergent stuff, mentalhealth, autism, and I'm working
with one or two other companiesand in the coaching.
So I'm a fellow with theAssociation for Coaching here in

(54:33):
the UK and so I spend a lot oftime doing that.
My book, I've been a blogger for12 years now and so I've written
some over a thousand blogs.
In the mission field, I wrote alot and I've written a I've
taken those blogs and made itinto a daily devotional book.

(54:53):
So it's a 365 daily devotionalbook, taking an everyday kind of
experience in the mission andactually then sharing a
spiritual message from it.
So yeah, it's in final editsnow.
I've got a BYU intern here inScotland helping me finish off
the final edits and I hope toget it to Deseret by the end of
this month.

(55:14):
And I want to see it on theshelves at Christmas time.
I

SPEAKER_00 (55:19):
used to have a contact at Deseret book.
My cousin was the head editor,but she has now retired.
So I can't help you there.
Cause I've got a book I want toget published too.
And I'm just, I'm not quite surehow to do that.

SPEAKER_01 (55:37):
Oh, well, I tell you, it's a lot harder than you
think, Jim, honestly.
You know, you always want to tryand make little improvements
right as you get to the end, andI was out getting read by a few
people in final edits, and thenthere'll probably be a few other
things I need to change, youknow, but hopefully by, I've
nails there, so that's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 (55:59):
Yeah, I think, you know, Jim, I know quite a bit
about your life, that would be afascinating book, and I'll
definitely would buy it.
And of course, Daryl, you know,packing all of your experience
into the end of that, it'll be,you know, I'm sure these books
will do well.
Just one other question I'mlistening to, Daryl, and just

(56:20):
going a little bit back to yourmission leadership experience
with you and your wife and, youknow, as a partnership.
We talked earlier about, youknow, love and motivating
mysteries, some of thechallenges.
When I was in my mission, andactually in Dunfermline, we came

(56:41):
across individuals who were invery strong opposition to the
church.
I think even we had thegodmakers that were showing up
as the Dunfermline or Jambal atone time.
I remember speaking to PresidentDunn and your dad and like, you
know, what the heck's going on,et cetera.
There was a lot of...
And of course, on the doorstep,we'd get questions.

(57:01):
And I struggled with some of thequestions.
What was your...
what was the experience likewhen you had a mystery who were
was asked a tough question ormaybe a doctrinal or historical
question polygamy you know iused to get that a lot on the
doorsteps you know polygamy waswas the uh probably the most
common one um you know uhthere's a few of the ones but

(57:25):
that was quite uh a commonquestion what was your what was
the experience with themysteries what some of the
questions were getting and thenwhen they had maybe tough
questions, maybe historical ordoctrinal.
How did you support themissionaries through perhaps
some of those difficultquestions that no doubt they
would get from time to time?

SPEAKER_01 (57:45):
Well, I think, Ian, I don't know if we're just very
fortunate or the missionaries'ability is they're coming more
prepared.
So I...
If there were doctrinal issues,and there were, they come up

(58:07):
every now and again, it wasn't avery frequent thing.
So the missionaries, we had avery close relationship with all
of them.
So they would generally speak tome in their transfer coaching
interview if there were anyspecific issues.
If there was a difficult onethat occurred, Then we would

(58:36):
call through the mission,through the transfer, and they
would speak to me one-on-oneabout it at a call at night.
The kind of typical things thatwould come up might have been
around transgender issues, mayhave came up once or twice.
Intersex was an interesting onethat came up once, but that

(58:56):
turned out to be one of the mostamazing spiritual experiences
I've ever had in my life, to behonest.
Other than that, Frank, Ian,you're going to think I can't
believe you, but honestly, therewere very, very few questions
that were coming to me as amission president.

(59:18):
There were questions that theycame across from people.
I remember there was onesituation where a guy was...
was very interested in joiningthe church, but he was coming
from the church of Satan, whichwas an interesting church to
belong to, quite openly.
And that created some doctrinalissues for the missionaries who

(59:38):
were teaching this guy from thechurch of Satan.
But Ian, you can see how I'meven answering this question to
come up with some real answersfor you.
I can hardly think of too manyexamples where there were
difficulties One, I think nowthe missionaries that are coming

(59:58):
in are better prepared.
They're more able.
They're more doctrinallyprepared, maybe through their
seminary and institute.
And so if they were coming tome, it would be a real bobby
dazzler.
And then we'd talk through it incouncil together.
And that was never an issue.
Now, saying that, in our time,we...

(01:00:23):
we never had any missionaryreturn home for a doctrinal
issue.
There were some issues thatneeded, there were maybe some
mental health issues thatoccurred or things that had
happened before the mission thatcame into the mission and they
hadn't confessed that took themback home.

(01:00:45):
But doctrinally wise, and I knowthat might sound, I know that in
the church today, there are manythat are struggling with
doctrines and historical factsand things like that.
But my experience in the missionwas it wasn't much of a concern
for our missionaries.
And maybe that was down to therelationship we had with them

(01:01:07):
because they could talk to meabout anything.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:11):
Sorry if that sounds like a bit of a cough.
Oh, it's a very honest and veryaccurate, very reliable
experience.
And it comes back to what you'resaying.
If you love someone and youtrust someone, you can open up
and share your thoughts.
You know, there's so much, youknow, we have a, you know, and
the church is a very long and attimes complex history, right?
And you're not going to knoweverything.

(01:01:32):
You're not going to know everyanswer to every question.
You know, we went through thewhole experience, all three of
us, you know, we had thisknowledge and and your knowledge
grows, and you might have someanswers, and you might not have
some answers, and you servethrough faith.
So, no, I appreciate that answervery much.
We're coming to the end of ourconversation here, and so I just
want to, Jim, ask you, do youhave any other thoughts or

(01:01:56):
questions for Daryl?
And then Daryl, I want to giveyou the final word and share
anything else, a story,anecdote, an experience, a
comment, anything, piece ofadvice, et cetera, so you can
have the closing words.
And then following that, we'llwrap up and close it.

(01:02:16):
Jim, any thoughts,

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:17):
questions from you?
Well, I have some thoughts.
I don't know that I have anymore questions other than to say
how grateful I am to hear goodnews from Europe.
I mean, right at the outset, myfirst question, you said you've
been fed a load of rubbish, andI'm actually very happy to hear
that because...
You hear dire things.
You hear, okay, well, the churchis growing in Africa, but it's

(01:02:40):
not, and it's growing in SouthAmerica, and it's growing in the
Philippines, and everywhere elseit's collapsing.
And, you know, I have heard thatfrom a number of sources, and to
hear somebody who has served amission, and I would believe may
be one of the most difficultproselyting areas in the world.

(01:03:01):
I mean...
the secular societies of Europeare very real.
I mean, there aren't sevenmissions in Belgium the way
there are in Lima, Peru.
And to hear you from the frontlines come back and saying,
there's a new resurgence and thechurch has figured out how to
use social media and all ofthese things.

(01:03:23):
I mean, Ian and I have talked anawful lot about, you know, the
church and the missionaryprogram.
And I've said for years that,The church was in the middle of
a transition that it didn'trecognize it was in, which was
this sort of transition to usingtechnology, to using social
media.
And when my sons were servingmissions, the church really

(01:03:48):
hadn't quite figured it out tothe point where it sounds like
they have, or at least themission in Belgium has, because
it had a great mission leader.
But it sounds like this issomething that the church is
getting a handle on.
And if the church is growingagain in Europe, then that's

(01:04:08):
tremendous news and that'swonderful.
And so I just very muchappreciate that.
I very much appreciate getting achance to visit with you and to
get to know you a little bit andthe feel of your spirit, because
I really think there will bepeople of missionary age who are

(01:04:28):
just, or people who've just comeback from missions or even not
missionary age, who will listenand go, geez, I wish my mission
president was like that.
I wish I'd had a missionpresident that had his
priorities in line and thatreally was in touch with what a
mission president ought to be.
So I just very grateful to visitwith you and very much

(01:04:50):
appreciate everything you do andhave done and will continue to
do.
And I'm going to be the first inline to buy your devotional book
as soon as Deseret Book puts iton the shelves.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:01):
Thanks, Jim.
Well, thank you, guys.
I appreciate it.
Let me just, I think, a coupleof things to finish off.
One is that the church isdefinitely, you know, the church
is no longer a Wasatch Frontchurch.
It's grown from that kind ofWestern United States to an

(01:05:23):
international faith.
And now it's really, where I seethe church now is it's really
kind of struggling to grow fromthe international stage to being
a global organization and aglobal faith.
And I think right now as we sitin the last of the last days and

(01:05:45):
preparing for the Savior'ssecond coming, we are seeing how
the church is up in its game tostarting to be on the global
stage.
And it's still struggling withgetting those things right.
And there'll be many morechanges to come as the church
becomes a player from theinternational stage to a global

(01:06:05):
player.
One little story I'll finishwith.
I've shared this story before onanother podcast thing I did a
little while ago, but it reallytypifies how I felt about the
mission.
oftentimes I'd be asked, how didyou do transfers?
How does that work?
And so we went through that 27times.

(01:06:28):
And towards the 24th or 25thtime, we'd meet with our
assistants.
My wife was there.
And through the whole transfer,we'd be thinking about where
people were going to go.
And it was dependent on how manymissionaries were coming in and
how many were going home and whowas moving into leadership, who
was moving out of leadership.
But there was one transfer.

(01:06:49):
It was about the 24th or 25thone.
We'd gone through this wholeusual scenario.
And it's all online now.
It's all virtual.
There's no more pictures onwalls.
It's all online.
You can move them around.
It's all changed.
And we went through the usualcycle, got to the end of the
cycle.

(01:07:10):
And boy, oh, boy, we just couldnot finish it off.
couldn't finish it it was likeand we went on till late at 9
9.30 and we needed to finish itthat night because we needed to
announce the transfers the nextmorning and it would not settle
on us and we tried everyvariation and couldn't get it to

(01:07:32):
match and we were one sister wewere one sister short basically
and anyway my wife went to bed Iwas getting late the AP's went
away and I thought what am Igoing to do So I thought, you
know what I'm going to have todo?
I couldn't get it to match.
I thought, I'm going to have tocall some of these sisters who

(01:07:54):
are going home and ask them tostay another transfer.
And it was really weird.
I thought, that's strange.
How is this not working out?
So I was just about 10, 15.
So I get on the phone with thisone sister, first of all.
President, what are you doingphoning me at this time of
night?
I says, well, what are you doingwhen you go home?

(01:08:20):
What are you doing right away?
And she proceeded to share anumber of things present.
You want me to stay?
You want me to stay?
I says, well, maybe.
I says, well, maybe I'll have toget you to stay.
I'll give up all of that.
I'm happy to stay.
Okay.

(01:08:40):
So I thought, right, okay.
Then I found another one.
And...
She says, well, I've got acruise booked.
I'm going away with my family ona cruise when I get home.
As soon as I get home, we'regoing away on a cruise.
President, are you wanting me tostay?
I says, well, I might.
Well, I'll give the cruise up.
I'm not going on the cruise.

(01:09:00):
I'm happy to stay.
And then I just listened tothese two sisters who were
amazing.
who would just give upeverything to have another one
transfer in the mission field.
You know, I'd have to pull a fewstrings because they were
duty-goers, both of them.

(01:09:22):
But anyway, I says, look, Idon't know what's going to
happen.
I'm going to sleep on it now,and I'll let you know first
thing in the morning.
So I go to my bed.
I plead with my Heavenly Father.
I say, look, I've doneeverything.
I don't know what it is.
I'm going to sleep.
Help.
Please help.
What's thy will?
And in the wee small hours, 2.57to be precise, I turn to the

(01:09:48):
clock, I wake up, and as clearas I'm talking to you two this
afternoon, I get this strongimpression about someone that
was completely not even in myrealms of thinking.
It meant several changes, quitea complex change, and the entire

(01:10:08):
thing that we'd set up And wehad just never even contemplated
that.
And as I went through thatchange,

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:19):
and as I went through that next transfer,

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:25):
I know that that particular transfer, more than
any other, was inspired by theLord Jesus Christ himself, by
what transpired that transfer.
Now, Ian, you know that I'm justa wee laddie from Abbey View in

(01:10:47):
Dunfermline.
I've never forgotten that.
And if he can use me and useeither of you guys in figuring
out his will, then he will.
And I testify to you as we closethis session that God lives...

(01:11:08):
that Jesus is the Christ, thatwe are involved in a work that
is far beyond the realms of ourown mortal understanding.
We are on, those missionariesare on his errand and literally
they are placed in places thathe needs them to be.

(01:11:29):
Ian, you came to Dunfermline,maybe just for this.
Years later, you came all thatway back They come to my dad's
funeral because you love him andyou honour him.
And I've had the privilege tohonour his name all of my life.
I've had the privilege to servein fairly senior roles in the

(01:11:51):
church.
And time and time and timeagain, I've seen his will
manifest beyond the puny littlemind of this wee lad from
Abbeyview in Dunfermline.
Because...
It happens and it happens whenyou're on his errand.
And I testify to that fact inthe name of Jesus Christ.

(01:12:12):
Amen.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:18):
Darrell, I want to thank you so much for taking
time to meet with us and shareyour thoughts and feelings.
I feel the spirit of yourfather.
I loved him, still love him.
and feel grateful that I'mtalking to his son.

(01:12:38):
You're an individual, of course.
And to Jim's point, I thinkit's, I think the missionaries
that served with you and yourmission are immensely blessed by
having someone like you wholoves and cares and will go
above and beyond and do whateverit takes during the mission,
after the mission.

(01:12:59):
And those missionaries thatresponded the way they did
during that transfer did thatbecause they love you and they
love the Lord.
So I want to thank you for youramazing experiences.
I also feel confident I canspeak on behalf of all the
listeners.
We have many who I know willlisten to this and will feel

(01:13:19):
just a wonderful spirit.
So on behalf of all thelisteners, to everyone who
listens to the Inside Outpodcast, we have a growing
number of people there who get alot from these podcasts.
Dal, I want to thank you againsincerely for just being just
wonderful.
And also extend our gratitude toyour lovely wife, who is an

(01:13:43):
equal partner.
And I'm grateful that youhighlighted that.
You're a partnership.
You're a leadership.
And so thank you, Thibault.
Love to you and your family andall of you for just being
wonderful partners.
extraordinary people.
And so, Jim, I want to thank youas well for always making an
extraordinary, valuablecontribution to the

(01:14:04):
conversations.
So, Daryl, Jim, to you both,thank you so much.
To all the listeners, thank youfor taking time to listen.
We will look forward to beingwith you next week on the latest
episode of Inside Out.
Daryl, thank you.
Jim, thank you.
Thank

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:20):
you.