In this episode of the Instant Payments podcast, host Tal Clark, CEO of Instant Financial, interviews Dr. Martin Armstrong, Vice President of Payroll Shared Services at a Fortune 100 telecommunications company. They discuss Martin's extensive career in payroll, his journey from the Navy to becoming a recognized leader in the industry, and the technological advancements that have transformed payroll practices. They also touch on the benefits of modern payroll solutions like earned wage access and robotic process automation. Martin shares his insights on the future of payroll and offers advice for payroll practitioners looking to advance their careers.
00:00 Welcome to the Instant Payments Podcast
00:43 Introducing Dr. Martin Armstrong
02:13 Martin's Journey into Payroll
03:29 Martin's Military and Business Career
10:15 The Evolution of Payroll
13:47 The Importance of Earned Wage Access
21:51 Future of Payroll Technology
25:49 Advice for Payroll Practitioners
27:41 Closing Remarks and Farewell
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tal Clark (00:06):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Instant Payments podcast.
I'm your host, Tal Clark.
I'm the CEO of Instant Financial, afintech company that's modernizing
payments and payroll for hourlyworkers and their employers.
I've worked in the payments industryfor 30 years at companies like
Fiserv and Money Network, andI'm glad you're tuning in today.
If you like what you hear, pleasedo us a favor and subscribe, leave
(00:28):
a review or suggest a future guest.
Our journey continues todaywith our fourth episode.
This podcast features payments andpayroll leaders to discuss some of
their challenges and what technologiesthey've used to improve their workplace
and the lives of their workforce.
Today's episode is a special one.
We're joined by a recognizedleader in the payroll world, Dr.
(00:49):
Martin Armstrong, Vice President ofPayroll Shared Services at a Fortune
100 telecommunications company.
Martin brings decades of experiencein payroll, HR and operations.
Having worked for large, respectedbrands, including Time Warner and Caesar's
Entertainment, he is not only responsiblefor overseeing payroll for one of the
nation's largest telecommunicationcompanies, but he is also a retired US
(01:12):
Navy Supply Corps Officer, a publishedauthor, educator, and frequent speaker
in the payroll and HR community.
He's been recognized as a thoughtleader on payroll strategy,
compliance, and the future of work.
Martin, welcome to the show.
Where are we catching you today?
Martin Armstrong (01:29):
Oh, well thank you for having me, Tal, and you're
catching me from the great stateof North Carolina in the city of
Charlotte where I live and work at.
Tal Clark (01:36):
There you go.
That's great, man.
And you and I have knowneach other for quite a while.
It's one of the things I love aboutbusiness is building relationships
that have lasted a long time.
So, lemme just start with I thinkwe met when you were in Memphis
working for Harrah's at the time.
Is that right?
Martin Armstrong (01:55):
That's exactly right.
It's been, gosh, I know we've knowneach other over 20 years now, it seems.
Tal Clark (01:59):
Yeah, it probably was 23, 24 years, something like that, because
we were starting Money Network at thetime and you were being innovative at
the time and one of the first users ofa payroll card of any sort back then.
So that was great.
Martin Armstrong (02:11):
That's right.
Yeah.
Tal Clark (02:12):
Look, tell me.
So, so I gave a little bit of introductionon Martin Armstrong, but kinda gimme
your own words, just your background,history, how you got into payroll, and
then we can circle back from there.
Martin Armstrong (02:24):
Sure.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I get that question often just 'cause ofmy background and the different areas that
I'm in, like, how'd you get into payroll?
And the simple answer is, I gotinto payroll because I'm colorblind.
So I was I went into theNavy right after high school.
My mom had to sign me in.
I was only 17.
I got a job that I qualified for asecond, a telephone repair person.
(02:45):
And so I had to use color-codedwires in the course of my job.
And before they sent me to schoolfor this job, they gave me a color
perception test, which I failed miserably.
I didn't even know ascolorblind at the time.
I was 17.
And so the Navy told me that I hadto either go home or I can select
14 jobs that didn't require colorperception that the Navy had.
(03:08):
And one of those jobs wascalled dispersing clerk.
And dispersing clerks, they paidpeople, they did accounts payable and
they also did financial statements forthe Navy and it was an enlisted job.
And so, I took that job and almost40 years later, I'm still doing the
same thing, just at a different level.
Tal Clark (03:27):
Wow.
Well, that's crazy.
And so, remind me, I know you andI were in about the same time.
We've talked about that before.
But remind me your active duty period,how long were you in active duty?
Martin Armstrong (03:38):
Well, I was only on active duty from 1984 to 1988, so I was
doing my dispersing clerk duties then.
But when I got out in 1988, Ijoined the reserves, and I was
a weekend warrior for 20 years.
So altogether I got 24 years.
And I have to tell you,when I was a reservist.
I made it up to E 7, which was adispersing clerk chief, and then
(03:59):
I got my commission and endedup being a supply officer, and I
retired as a supply officer in 2008.
After a stint, I may add, in Afghanistan.
I got recalled to active dutywhile I was minding my own
business in Memphis, actually.
And, and DC called me up 'cause I wasI was a reservist at the Pentagon and I
thought, well, why are they calling me?
(04:20):
Probably some paperwork or something.
It was some paperwork all right.
It was 15 month recall paperwork.
So I found myself in Afghanistan in 2006and 2007, but that's that's what happened.
Tal Clark (04:31):
Well, and I think I remember that.
I think that's, at that time we wereworking together, doing business together.
And I think I remember you havingto leave and telling me that.
So, again, that's a great service career.
And well walk us thenthrough your business career.
So I, I met you when youwere at Harrah's at the time.
I would say, but I'm not sure where itstarted before that, but certainly bring
(04:51):
everybody up to date if you don't mind.
Martin Armstrong (04:53):
Sure.
You bet.
So when I got outta active dutyin 1988, I was in Los Angeles.
I was stationed at the Long BeachNaval Shipyard, so I decided to stay
there and I got a job downtown LosAngeles at a company called Dial
Communications, and that was my first job.
I got that job three days after Igot out of active duty, three days.
And so I was a bookkeeper there andI also did payroll, I did accounts
(05:16):
payable, what I was doing in the Navy.
And after two years at DialCommunications, then I got my first big
job, I'd say at at Caesar's Entertainment.
That was my first gaming job and I stayedin that industry for 12 some odd years.
And I worked at the corporateoffice in, Century City, California.
And, I moved from thecorporate office to Las Vegas.
(05:37):
I wanna say that was in, Idon't know, 92 or something.
I can't remember now.
But anyway, I moved to Las Vegas andI stayed there for 12 years and that's
when I got into the gaming industryand I worked for Caesars, of course.
I work for Harrah's.
I work for the MGM.
I work for another companycalled oh, I've forgot now.
But anyway, I work for like four or fivedifferent casinos and and that is what
(06:00):
brought me out to Memphis from Las Vegas'cause I was there to stand up a a payroll
share services center there in Memphis.
And that's where I met you.
And then I left Memphis to take mycurrent job, my telecommunications job
which I've been now there for 16 years.
Tal Clark (06:17):
Wow.
Martin Armstrong (06:17):
I will say I, I had, I owe a debt of gratitude to
the gaming industry because quitehonestly, that's where I grew up.
I got my skill sets, I did everyjob possible in that span of time.
And it made me, coupled with the Navy,of course, made me to who I am today.
So, that's a little bit of my journey andhow I got from really the Navy all the
way to, where I work at now in Charlotte.
Tal Clark (06:39):
Yeah.
Well, that's great man.
And you're probably one of the fewpeople that might recognize over my right
shoulder there is the Memphis Grizzliesand, the Pyramid and that was that
was the first game at the Pyramid, thefirst game for the Memphis Grizzlies.
Martin, you might have beenaround for that same game.
And so I saved some of that up there.
So, that's really good.
And I just know that you havesuch a deep background in payroll
(07:00):
and the things that you've done.
So it's a great opportunity to talk.
I know we used to runinto each other a lot too.
It was APA Congress, butnow Payroll Congress.
And are you still active with the PayrollCongress and on the board there, as well?
Martin Armstrong (07:14):
Yeah.
Yep.
I was, I've been probably in everydifferent role with PAYO now,
formerly American Payroll Association,as you mentioned I've not been
a director or nor president, butI've been doing everything else.
I'm currently on the NationalSpeakers Bureau and a number of
different task forces that I serve on.
So I'm totally in PAYO.
PAYO is the industry leaderin payroll education.
(07:34):
So, I'm not going anywherethere as long as I'm in payroll.
I mean, that's a great sourcealong with other affiliations
that I have with other companies.
So, yeah, I'm still doing my thing there.
I teach mergers and acquisitions.
I teach leadership classes.
And whatever else they ask me to do, I'mhappy to do it because, it gives me an
opportunity to sharpen my skill sets.
And if I'm gonna train someone and teachsomeone, you gotta know what you're doing.
(07:55):
And so, we bring that back towhere I work at now and and we
share with payroll practitioners sothey could be as efficient as they
possibly can for their employers.
Tal Clark (08:02):
Well, that's great.
I think you're one of the leaders.
You've done a great job of makingyourself impactful in the organizations
that you've been a part of.
How have you taken the payroll leadershiprole and turned that into more than
maybe it is in some organizations?
Martin Armstrong (08:19):
Well, I found out that most people just don't know
what payroll practitioners do, andI made it my business to tell them.
Payroll is, in my opinion, because I'man accountant by trade, so I fell into
being a payroll person by way of the Navy.
But I do have formal training, I havedegrees in and in business administration
and most of it in accounting.
So the bottom line is it's one of themost important functions in my opinion,
(08:43):
that accounting has, even thoughwhen you go to school, whether it's
business administration or accountingor finance or econ, there's very
little on the payroll journal entry.
That might be your exposure to payroll.
And that's it.
But the bottom line is the average payrollpractitioner needs to know accounting.
It's the largest expense, orat least the top three largest
expenses in most companies.
So you have to know where, what you'redoing that's gonna impact the balance
(09:06):
sheet and the income statement.
So that's a necessary evil to knowaccounting, then you have to know
benefits and taxables --what's taxable andwhat's, not as far as tax compensation.
And then garnishments and technology,workforce management systems.
And the most important thing, in myopinion, that a payroll practitioner
does is employment taxation: federal, state, and local taxation. (09:25):
undefined
It is why that payroll, the payrollindustry is 70%, makes up 70% of the U.S.
Teasury's annual budget.
Because all the aggregate employers,when they withhold federal, state,
local income tax and they pay thoseemployer taxes for like FICA and
(09:46):
unemployment, and they send that overto these tax agencies for the U.S.
Treasury on the Fed side, it makesup 70% of their entire budget.
So it is an important,it's an important role.
And most people, if they don't knowabout payroll, it's only because
hopefully, because maybe thingswere working correctly, right?
Tal Clark (10:04):
Right.
Martin Armstrong (10:05):
Yeah, in a perfect world, no one would know
who I am at, where I work at.
Tal Clark (10:10):
Well, that's good.
You've done a, you've done a great jobof raising visibility of the role itself.
Let's talk about a little bit aboutwhat you and I have both seen and
you, especially as far as the historyof payroll and where we've been.
I don't think either of us have beenin organizations where we were still
paying cash to a large number of people.
You may have been but certainly checks.
(10:30):
Right.
And then start there, talk abouthow you've seen the the payments to
of employees evolve over the lastreally 20 something years, 30 years.
Martin Armstrong (10:41):
Yeah, I will say the payment industry even
starting back from direct deposit.
I remember in the early eighties,direct deposit was being introduced
and people would say no way wouldI put my routing number and my
account number on the internet perse, for someone to then steal it.
And then for me, noteven receive my payment.
After all, they just thought it wasso many security risk and everything.
(11:03):
And over time I will say that wehave evolved from a pay distribution
standpoint to now very few peopleactually have a paper paycheck.
Where I work at now, we haveless than 400 people there that
have direct or that have a paperpaycheck out of a 100,000 employees.
And I'm not, that's not an anomaly.
I think if you go to mostemployers, I mean, our participation
(11:23):
rate for direct deposit, 99.6
right now percent.
Yeah.
And we don't even makeit, mandatory, we don't.
Some states that youcan't make it mandatory.
But all that to say, now in the 21stcentury, you ask somebody if you don't
have direct deposit, some electronicmeans, and we're like, are you crazy?
Why would you even go in a bank?
I know some Gen Z people who havenever set foot in a bank or even used
(11:44):
any type of deposit, type of ATM . SoI, I say the industry has changed
and the paycards, got introduced.
That's how you and I met whenyou were at your other company.
And paycards here.
And now we have earned wage access.
Right?
So just things are evolving over time.
It's been a while.
When technology catches up tothe workplace, then you know,
(12:05):
things change in the workplace.
Like employee subservice, that'sall changed now: AI machine
learning, robotic processautomation, it's technology driven.
Now I will say that is what leadsthe charge 99% of the time is things
have evolved from a technologystandpoint and it forces us to change
our behaviors on how we pay peoplein the payroll space or how we manage
(12:26):
employees or whatever the case is.
All driven by technology, in my opinion.
Tal Clark (12:31):
Yeah, that's a great point.
That's a great point.
Yeah, I can I can remember all ofthose times, and it seems like each
time, you mentioned the friction alittle bit, when you first went to
direct deposit, why would I put myrouting and account number somewhere?
I can remember when we were firstlaunching paycards is like, why would
I want to give a, there was frictionthere with some people, not you were
one of the first, first to use it, buta lot of people were like, why would I
(12:53):
want to give them, my employees, a card?
Right?
And then and then, most people don'trealize that earned wage access
was, the earliest I can remembertalking to somebody about earn
wage access, and I knew most of theones that started these businesses
early on, was probably 2014 and 15.
Right.
And I was still involved with withFirst Data, Money Network at the time.
(13:16):
And then the founders of some ofthese businesses would come see us
because of course they wanted togo talk to our book of business.
Right.
And we would go talk toclients and introduce it.
And at that time it was like, no, whywould I wanna pay my employees early?
Right.
It was like so I would say that wasthe reaction you got in 2015 and 16.
Probably really up until, I don'tknow, maybe traction started
(13:36):
to begin happening in 2018.
It took some of these businesses fouror five years to start getting traction.
And then we saw what happened in 2020 andin 2021 and now it's really taken off.
Let me give you a conversation, a pieceof a conversation I had yesterday.
Not yesterday, it was recently though,with a I'm gonna try to be as vague as
I can, but I also wanna make the point.
(13:57):
It's, say it's a Fortune 500CEO of a very reputable brand.
And I had the opportunity to visitwith him about earned wage access.
And the response was that, I don'tbelieve, why would I wanna, if
they're already having troubleliving paycheck to paycheck, right?
(14:20):
If, because 66% of Americans areliving paycheck to paycheck, if they're
already having trouble living paycheckto paycheck, why would I want to give
them their wages on a daily basis.
Right.
And to me, and then I'll give youmy perspective, and I want your
perspective, but the way I lookat this, Martin, is these are
truly wages that they have earned.
(14:41):
Like me as an employer shouldn'tshould give the employee who has
earned that wage the opportunity todecide when they want to access it.
They don't have to, but the opportunity,and I also should put the trust in my
employees to manage their financialaffairs, even though I know that
many of them don't in the way thatwe would all recommend that they
(15:03):
do, it's still not up to me to tryto set that discipline for them.
How do you see sort of the commentthat I received from a CEO, that's well
removed from most of the people we'retalking about, and then my perspective
on that, how do you see it yourself?
Martin Armstrong (15:19):
Well, I would say, I, maybe I can get from one
point of view, his point of view.
Why would we do that?
They can't manage their exp- theirbudgets, why would I make it worse?
Because they're gonna have to paythat back at some point in time.
And I think the simple answer is thatbased on employee demand and competitive
markets for employee talent, the more andmore employers that are gonna offer this
(15:40):
the more and more they're gonna separateworking there, where they offer EWA and
some other kind of financial wellnesstype of opportunities for employees.
Then working somewherethat doesn't have it.
Right now it's all about, environmentsand choices and opportunities
and I will say, life happens.
I don't know anybody that hasn'tworked, a day in their life and hasn't
(16:00):
been like a paycheck to paycheckperson at some point in their career.
And so they understand that things happen.
You may have a budget, but thatbudget is blown as soon as you have an
unpredictable expense that comes out,whether it's your car or something
in your house or whatever it is.
And the bottom line is that will need tobe taken care of, especially if it's your
car or some other mandatory type of thing.
(16:22):
So I'm just gonna say, as a, as ifI was a CEO and I was looking at the
marketplace, I wanna retain talent.
Especially talent that is, ishaving a hard time staying.
I don't know what their, turnoverrate might be, but I would look at
that and say, how do I retain talent?
And if EWA is a small fraction of doingso and it doesn't even cost the employer
(16:43):
any money, I think they really shouldlook twice at that because, look at
what we're talking about just over time.
And your organization right now,Instant Financial, your marketing
materials is just so spot on.
When you, I looked at some marketingmaterials you had, and you guys have
this slide that simply says (16:58):
we don't wait for anything like, for Prime, like
we don't wait 'til the weekend to shop.
We can use Amazon Prime and getit the same day in some cases, or
we don't plan rides in advance.
We just call Uber or Lyft.
We don't schedule time in to grocery shop.
We just call Instacart and certainlywe don't carry cash anymore.
Who does that?
We just Cash App or Venmo someone.
(17:20):
The bottom line is people don'twait to do various things.
And one of 'em is to this dayand time, some people just
don't wait anymore to get paid.
And so if they're gonna go toanother employer that has that
option, why wouldn't they go?
Just from a leadership standpoint, Iwould just think, listen, I know our
employees, the backbone of our company.
Nobody does this alone.
(17:42):
And if that is one small piece to retainthem because replacing an employee
is expensive and it usually generallytakes three to four months to do so.
Why wouldn't I do this?
And, just reduce the turnover rateand increase employee experience with
their satisfaction of working there.
That would be my argument.
I mean, there's so many different ways youcan take this, but at the end of the day.
(18:04):
We're talking about retaining employeesand this is an employee benefit.
So I'm gonna say, yeahthat's the reality today.
Tal Clark (18:11):
I think that's a, I think that's a great summary of it, Martin.
And it is, 'cause again, the way I justgo back to it is their money, right?
They have earned that money.
We should give them the optionof managing that money as
they need to manage it, right?
Because now, five years agowe didn't have this option.
(18:33):
Now we have this option.
So let's allow them to have the optionto manage their money as they see fit.
So, great.
I gave you an example of of a CEO thatI had the opportunity to visit with.
But I've seen this oftentimes wherewhen we start talking about executive
suites, we at Instant and I thinkin general the our businesses or our
(18:56):
competitors, we probably all are missingthe mark a little bit in regards to
communicating at the executive level,both the benefit that we provide and the
need of the benefit by their employees.
Do you see that?
And how do you, how can weas Instant improve and maybe
enhancing those communications?
Martin Armstrong (19:19):
Well, I will say as far as the supply and demand of the need,
I mean, you hit the nail on the head.
I would say, listen, if you work at aworkplace and you're one of the leaders
there, ask people what they think.
And they'll tell you, I guaranteeyou, if an employee survey was sent
out and it asked about employee orearned wage access, it gave 'em a
little high high level summary ofwhat it is and the benefits of it.
(19:42):
I doubt very seriously that most employeesto say, nah, this is a crazy idea.
humor me with something else.
So I would say go to the source.
These are for employees.
This benefit is for employee.
Ask 'em what they think and youknow what, if it comes back to
said, nah, just a waste of time,then fine, you have your answer.
But my sense would say thatmost employees would say.
(20:03):
Why didn't we have this, some time ago?
And here's another rationale for it too.
We talked about theadvent of direct deposit.
Now how popular it is.
Like it'd be crazy notto have direct deposit.
I have to tell you, I predict thatthe employee demand for competitive
markets, for, and talent and all thisthings, we talked about this, that
EWA is really just gonna catch up.
Just like, the supply chain did whenwe talked about e-commerce, right?
(20:29):
And how to enhance the service anddistribution of products and service
offerings that might someone maypurchase and say, hey, I want it now.
I mean, just think aboutthat infrastructure.
That's a whole supply chain system.
It's crazy that you can order somethingonline and get it the same day or even the
next day without having to go anywhere.
It's put a lot of companies outof business right now because they
(20:50):
have brick and mortars where youcan get the same thing for a lesser,
cheaper price and more convenient.
I do believe that EWAis gonna have its place.
When you think about it, as you mentionedearlier, EWA hasn't been around that long.
I mean, we populated the ideaof EWA back in 2016 or so, and
everyone else has caught up.
(21:11):
But when you think about it today inthis, September 2025, earned wage access
has its presence in transportation,retail, hospitality, restaurant,
and now almost every industry.
Didn't started out that way, but nowit's reached every industry and it's not
because, they were just slow to market.
It's because of demand of what employeessay they want and how to retain people.
(21:35):
That at the end of the day, thatis the only thing that matters at
this point is what people want.
And the price point to get EWA is zero.
So that's the main thing that peopleall, who are in leadership positions,
think about that it costs nothing.
Tal Clark (21:49):
That's great.
That's great.
Well, let's talk a little bit about,Martin, what else is on your agenda
as a payroll leader of a largeorganization, what else are you looking
at in considering for your employeesin your organization over the next,
let's just say year to two years?
Martin Armstrong (22:10):
Yeah, I'll have to say just looking over the landscape and
for any payroll practitioner, not justme, it is really how do we implement
certain technologies that's gonna help us.
Be more efficient in the workplacefrom an employee standpoint.
Technologies I'm most excited aboutright now with within the next one or
two years is our implementation andmore efficient use of RPA processes.
(22:33):
Payroll practitioners, a lot of thetransactions and we're a transactional
industry, so make no mistake about that.
We do a lot of transactions and with thosetransactions, you have to have processes.
And that's what RPA is all about.
Robotic process automation.
You think about certain things likepaying a deceased employee, when
you pay, when someone passes awayin your workplace, you gotta go back
(22:54):
and say, okay, which state was it in?
And then find out what state they're inand figure out from that state, who's
the next of kin legally to figure outwho's gonna get that person's wages.
Oftentimes you'll have to get a W9, which is a request for taxpayer
identification number because that otherperson obviously is not your employee.
It could be their spouseor whomever it is.
(23:15):
And we have to set thatup on accounts payable.
So, that W 9 is required.
Somebody has to go out and reach outto the the next and kin to get that.
And bottom line is, and most payrollpractitioners know this, when you pay
someone who's deceased after theirdeath that same wage payment is gonna
find its way on a W2 and a 1099.
Tal Clark (23:34):
Oh wow.
Martin Armstrong (23:35):
It's a lot of parts to do that, and a lot of communication
so we can automate that process, even ifit's just sending out notifications on
an automated basis, that would be great.
Even something like missing punchesright now, for an employer that has a
lot of non-exempt employees, the reasonwhy missing punches is an, is important,
is because obviously if they're usinga workforce management system and
(23:55):
if they've missed a punch, they'renot gonna have a perfect paycheck.
And wouldn't it be nice though, ifthere was a robotic process automation
or some type of automation that says,oh, Martin missed a punch yesterday,
and it automatically sends an emailto my people leader, my manager, so
they can go and correct the punch oreven allow me to correct the punch.
So at the end of the day, atthe end of the pay period,
(24:17):
I'm not only having 64 hours whenI should have had 80 hours 'cause
I've missed two days of punchingin and out, which sacrificed,
two days or 16 hours of my pay.
Overpayments, it's another one.
Monthly payroll.
All this stuff that we can automategetting somewhere that we physically
have to do can be automated.
So, to answer your questionfor the next one or two years.
(24:38):
We have we actually identified24 different case studies where
I work at right now where roboticprocess automation could help us.
So, I am very excited about thatbecause someone has to do it.
Why not automation?
Why not technology?
Because they don't call in sick,they don't complain about work hours.
They're so more efficient and somuch quicker and more accurate.
It's just a matter of time.
Tal Clark (24:58):
No, that's great and I'd love, I look forward to
talking to you more about that.
Maybe we get together over dinneror something that's interesting.
I haven't heard those comments aboutautomation before, so it sounds like
you're ahead of the curve there.
One thing I will say, as far as youmentioned punch clock we do know now
that earned wage programs enforcepunch clock discipline because if
you don't punch in and punch out onschedule, you don't get your offer.
(25:21):
Right.
So.
We've got a number of clients thathave elected it for that reason.
It was one of the driving reasons, so,
Martin Armstrong (25:27):
I think I read a statistic where I said it increased by
15 to even 20% in some cases, which ishuge because we're just talking about
reinforcing behavior that should alreadyhave been there in the first place, so
Tal Clark (25:38):
Yeah.
Martin Armstrong (25:39):
We can use that.
That's even better.
Tal Clark (25:42):
Absolutely.
Well, look, we're about ready to wrap up.
Martin, any, anything that wehave not touched on that you'd
like to touch on before we do?
Martin Armstrong (25:49):
Well, I will say just from a payroll practitioner
standpoint, you know the face oftoday's practitioner is much different
from 20 years ago, even 15 years ago.
So I would say that today if youwanna be really successful, whether
you're an individual contributor ora people leader, I did some research
some time ago about how do you justadvance your job into a career?
(26:11):
And I came up with five different things.
And I remember them by twoC's, two E's, and one F.
And the two C's iscommunication and competency.
You just have to be competentin what you do if you wanna
get your marketplace salary.
And communication is the key,especially in payroll, where we have
all these moving parts and we havea lot of cross-functional partners.
You gotta be really good, and not onlyjust communicating cross-functional
(26:33):
partners, but also to employees ifyou're gonna be a people leader.
So those two things, two Cs arecompetency and communication.
The two E's are embracing technology.
We've talked about technology today.
Nothing moves without technology, soyou just gotta be comfortable with that.
Then emotional intelligenceis the other one.
If you're a people leader inany, I don't care what job you're
(26:53):
in or what role or industry.
Having emotional intelligence iswhere you're gonna get the most
out of people that you dependon for your success or failure.
Listening about selfishly in that regard.
And then the one E is having financialacumen, again, if you're a people
leader individual contributor, yougotta know what you do and how that
contributes to your company's bottom line.
(27:13):
And I would say for today's practitioner,if you had those five skill sets,
communication, competency, emotionalintelligence, embracing technology,
and having some financial acumen, youare gonna last in today's environment
and and set the future for the nextgeneration above and beyond you.
So you wanna transition yourjob into a career, get those
(27:34):
five skill sets under your belt.
So that's my parting step.
Tal Clark (27:37):
That's great, Martin.
Those are great wordsand I appreciate that.
And so let's, we'll wrap up.
Martin, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
Your leadership and payrolland commitment to advance the
profession are truly inspiring.
I've enjoyed knowing you and gettingto know you better over the years.
It's been an honor havingyou on the podcast.
For our audience, you can find Martinon LinkedIn by searching for Dr.
(27:58):
Martin Armstrong.
To our listeners, you can followalong with new episodes at instant.co
/podcast and subscribewherever you get your podcast.
And as always, share the episode, leavea review and suggest a future guest.
Thanks for tuning in to theInstant Payments podcast.
Hello everyone and welcome to the Instant Payments podcast.
I'm your host, Tal Clark.
I'm the CEO of Instant Financial, afintech company that's modernizing
payments and payroll for hourlyworkers and their employers.
I've worked in the payments industryfor 30 years at companies like
Fiserv and Money Network, andI'm glad you're tuning in today.
If you like what you hear, pleasedo us a favor and subscribe, leave
(00:28):
a review or suggest a future guest.
Our journey continues todaywith our fourth episode.
This podcast features payments andpayroll leaders to discuss some of
their challenges and what technologiesthey've used to improve their workplace
and the lives of their workforce.
Today's episode is a special one.
We're joined by a recognizedleader in the payroll world, Dr.
(00:49):
Martin Armstrong, Vice President ofPayroll Shared Services at a Fortune
100 telecommunications company.
Martin brings decades of experiencein payroll, HR and operations.
Having worked for large, respectedbrands, including Time Warner and Caesar's
Entertainment, he is not only responsiblefor overseeing payroll for one of the
nation's largest telecommunicationcompanies, but he is also a retired US
(01:12):
Navy Supply Corps Officer, a publishedauthor, educator, and frequent speaker
in the payroll and HR community.
He's been recognized as a thoughtleader on payroll strategy,
compliance, and the future of work.
Martin, welcome to the show.
Where are we catching you today?
Martin Armstrong (01:29):
Oh, well thank you for having me, Tal, and you're
catching me from the great stateof North Carolina in the city of
Charlotte where I live and work at.
Tal Clark (01:36):
There you go.
That's great, man.
And you and I have knowneach other for quite a while.
It's one of the things I love aboutbusiness is building relationships
that have lasted a long time.
So, lemme just start with I thinkwe met when you were in Memphis
working for Harrah's at the time.
Is that right?
Martin Armstrong (01:55):
That's exactly right.
It's been, gosh, I know we've knowneach other over 20 years now, it seems.
Tal Clark (01:59):
Yeah, it probably was 23, 24 years, something like that, because
we were starting Money Network at thetime and you were being innovative at
the time and one of the first users ofa payroll card of any sort back then.
So that was great.
Martin Armstrong (02:11):
That's right.
Yeah.
Tal Clark (02:12):
Look, tell me.
So, so I gave a little bit of introductionon Martin Armstrong, but kinda gimme
your own words, just your background,history, how you got into payroll, and
then we can circle back from there.
Martin Armstrong (02:24):
Sure.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I get that question often just 'cause ofmy background and the different areas that
I'm in, like, how'd you get into payroll?
And the simple answer is, I gotinto payroll because I'm colorblind.
So I was I went into theNavy right after high school.
My mom had to sign me in.
I was only 17.
I got a job that I qualified for asecond, a telephone repair person.
(02:45):
And so I had to use color-codedwires in the course of my job.
And before they sent me to schoolfor this job, they gave me a color
perception test, which I failed miserably.
I didn't even know ascolorblind at the time.
I was 17.
And so the Navy told me that I hadto either go home or I can select
14 jobs that didn't require colorperception that the Navy had.
(03:08):
And one of those jobs wascalled dispersing clerk.
And dispersing clerks, they paidpeople, they did accounts payable and
they also did financial statements forthe Navy and it was an enlisted job.
And so, I took that job and almost40 years later, I'm still doing the
same thing, just at a different level.
Tal Clark (03:27):
Wow.
Well, that's crazy.
And so, remind me, I know you andI were in about the same time.
We've talked about that before.
But remind me your active duty period,how long were you in active duty?
Martin Armstrong (03:38):
Well, I was only on active duty from 1984 to 1988, so I was
doing my dispersing clerk duties then.
But when I got out in 1988, Ijoined the reserves, and I was
a weekend warrior for 20 years.
So altogether I got 24 years.
And I have to tell you,when I was a reservist.
I made it up to E 7, which was adispersing clerk chief, and then
(03:59):
I got my commission and endedup being a supply officer, and I
retired as a supply officer in 2008.
After a stint, I may add, in Afghanistan.
I got recalled to active dutywhile I was minding my own
business in Memphis, actually.
And, and DC called me up 'cause I wasI was a reservist at the Pentagon and I
thought, well, why are they calling me?
(04:20):
Probably some paperwork or something.
It was some paperwork all right.
It was 15 month recall paperwork.
So I found myself in Afghanistan in 2006and 2007, but that's that's what happened.
Tal Clark (04:31):
Well, and I think I remember that.
I think that's, at that time we wereworking together, doing business together.
And I think I remember you havingto leave and telling me that.
So, again, that's a great service career.
And well walk us thenthrough your business career.
So I, I met you when youwere at Harrah's at the time.
I would say, but I'm not sure where itstarted before that, but certainly bring
(04:51):
everybody up to date if you don't mind.
Martin Armstrong (04:53):
Sure.
You bet.
So when I got outta active dutyin 1988, I was in Los Angeles.
I was stationed at the Long BeachNaval Shipyard, so I decided to stay
there and I got a job downtown LosAngeles at a company called Dial
Communications, and that was my first job.
I got that job three days after Igot out of active duty, three days.
And so I was a bookkeeper there andI also did payroll, I did accounts
(05:16):
payable, what I was doing in the Navy.
And after two years at DialCommunications, then I got my first big
job, I'd say at at Caesar's Entertainment.
That was my first gaming job and I stayedin that industry for 12 some odd years.
And I worked at the corporateoffice in, Century City, California.
And, I moved from thecorporate office to Las Vegas.
(05:37):
I wanna say that was in, Idon't know, 92 or something.
I can't remember now.
But anyway, I moved to Las Vegas andI stayed there for 12 years and that's
when I got into the gaming industryand I worked for Caesars, of course.
I work for Harrah's.
I work for the MGM.
I work for another companycalled oh, I've forgot now.
But anyway, I work for like four or fivedifferent casinos and and that is what
(06:00):
brought me out to Memphis from Las Vegas'cause I was there to stand up a a payroll
share services center there in Memphis.
And that's where I met you.
And then I left Memphis to take mycurrent job, my telecommunications job
which I've been now there for 16 years.
Tal Clark (06:17):
Wow.
Martin Armstrong (06:17):
I will say I, I had, I owe a debt of gratitude to
the gaming industry because quitehonestly, that's where I grew up.
I got my skill sets, I did everyjob possible in that span of time.
And it made me, coupled with the Navy,of course, made me to who I am today.
So, that's a little bit of my journey andhow I got from really the Navy all the
way to, where I work at now in Charlotte.
Tal Clark (06:39):
Yeah.
Well, that's great man.
And you're probably one of the fewpeople that might recognize over my right
shoulder there is the Memphis Grizzliesand, the Pyramid and that was that
was the first game at the Pyramid, thefirst game for the Memphis Grizzlies.
Martin, you might have beenaround for that same game.
And so I saved some of that up there.
So, that's really good.
And I just know that you havesuch a deep background in payroll
(07:00):
and the things that you've done.
So it's a great opportunity to talk.
I know we used to runinto each other a lot too.
It was APA Congress, butnow Payroll Congress.
And are you still active with the PayrollCongress and on the board there, as well?
Martin Armstrong (07:14):
Yeah.
Yep.
I was, I've been probably in everydifferent role with PAYO now,
formerly American Payroll Association,as you mentioned I've not been
a director or nor president, butI've been doing everything else.
I'm currently on the NationalSpeakers Bureau and a number of
different task forces that I serve on.
So I'm totally in PAYO.
PAYO is the industry leaderin payroll education.
(07:34):
So, I'm not going anywherethere as long as I'm in payroll.
I mean, that's a great sourcealong with other affiliations
that I have with other companies.
So, yeah, I'm still doing my thing there.
I teach mergers and acquisitions.
I teach leadership classes.
And whatever else they ask me to do, I'mhappy to do it because, it gives me an
opportunity to sharpen my skill sets.
And if I'm gonna train someone and teachsomeone, you gotta know what you're doing.
(07:55):
And so, we bring that back towhere I work at now and and we
share with payroll practitioners sothey could be as efficient as they
possibly can for their employers.
Tal Clark (08:02):
Well, that's great.
I think you're one of the leaders.
You've done a great job of makingyourself impactful in the organizations
that you've been a part of.
How have you taken the payroll leadershiprole and turned that into more than
maybe it is in some organizations?
Martin Armstrong (08:19):
Well, I found out that most people just don't know
what payroll practitioners do, andI made it my business to tell them.
Payroll is, in my opinion, because I'man accountant by trade, so I fell into
being a payroll person by way of the Navy.
But I do have formal training, I havedegrees in and in business administration
and most of it in accounting.
So the bottom line is it's one of themost important functions in my opinion,
(08:43):
that accounting has, even thoughwhen you go to school, whether it's
business administration or accountingor finance or econ, there's very
little on the payroll journal entry.
That might be your exposure to payroll.
And that's it.
But the bottom line is the average payrollpractitioner needs to know accounting.
It's the largest expense, orat least the top three largest
expenses in most companies.
So you have to know where, what you'redoing that's gonna impact the balance
(09:06):
sheet and the income statement.
So that's a necessary evil to knowaccounting, then you have to know
benefits and taxables --what's taxable andwhat's, not as far as tax compensation.
And then garnishments and technology,workforce management systems.
And the most important thing, in myopinion, that a payroll practitioner
does is employment taxation: federal, state, and local taxation. (09:25):
undefined
It is why that payroll, the payrollindustry is 70%, makes up 70% of the U.S.
Teasury's annual budget.
Because all the aggregate employers,when they withhold federal, state,
local income tax and they pay thoseemployer taxes for like FICA and
(09:46):
unemployment, and they send that overto these tax agencies for the U.S.
Treasury on the Fed side, it makesup 70% of their entire budget.
So it is an important,it's an important role.
And most people, if they don't knowabout payroll, it's only because
hopefully, because maybe thingswere working correctly, right?
Tal Clark (10:04):
Right.
Martin Armstrong (10:05):
Yeah, in a perfect world, no one would know
who I am at, where I work at.
Tal Clark (10:10):
Well, that's good.
You've done a, you've done a great jobof raising visibility of the role itself.
Let's talk about a little bit aboutwhat you and I have both seen and
you, especially as far as the historyof payroll and where we've been.
I don't think either of us have beenin organizations where we were still
paying cash to a large number of people.
You may have been but certainly checks.
(10:30):
Right.
And then start there, talk abouthow you've seen the the payments to
of employees evolve over the lastreally 20 something years, 30 years.
Martin Armstrong (10:41):
Yeah, I will say the payment industry even
starting back from direct deposit.
I remember in the early eighties,direct deposit was being introduced
and people would say no way wouldI put my routing number and my
account number on the internet perse, for someone to then steal it.
And then for me, noteven receive my payment.
After all, they just thought it wasso many security risk and everything.
(11:03):
And over time I will say that wehave evolved from a pay distribution
standpoint to now very few peopleactually have a paper paycheck.
Where I work at now, we haveless than 400 people there that
have direct or that have a paperpaycheck out of a 100,000 employees.
And I'm not, that's not an anomaly.
I think if you go to mostemployers, I mean, our participation
(11:23):
rate for direct deposit, 99.6
right now percent.
Yeah.
And we don't even makeit, mandatory, we don't.
Some states that youcan't make it mandatory.
But all that to say, now in the 21stcentury, you ask somebody if you don't
have direct deposit, some electronicmeans, and we're like, are you crazy?
Why would you even go in a bank?
I know some Gen Z people who havenever set foot in a bank or even used
(11:44):
any type of deposit, type of ATM . SoI, I say the industry has changed
and the paycards, got introduced.
That's how you and I met whenyou were at your other company.
And paycards here.
And now we have earned wage access.
Right?
So just things are evolving over time.
It's been a while.
When technology catches up tothe workplace, then you know,
(12:05):
things change in the workplace.
Like employee subservice, that'sall changed now: AI machine
learning, robotic processautomation, it's technology driven.
Now I will say that is what leadsthe charge 99% of the time is things
have evolved from a technologystandpoint and it forces us to change
our behaviors on how we pay peoplein the payroll space or how we manage
(12:26):
employees or whatever the case is.
All driven by technology, in my opinion.
Tal Clark (12:31):
Yeah, that's a great point.
That's a great point.
Yeah, I can I can remember all ofthose times, and it seems like each
time, you mentioned the friction alittle bit, when you first went to
direct deposit, why would I put myrouting and account number somewhere?
I can remember when we were firstlaunching paycards is like, why would
I want to give a, there was frictionthere with some people, not you were
one of the first, first to use it, buta lot of people were like, why would I
(12:53):
want to give them, my employees, a card?
Right?
And then and then, most people don'trealize that earned wage access
was, the earliest I can remembertalking to somebody about earn
wage access, and I knew most of theones that started these businesses
early on, was probably 2014 and 15.
Right.
And I was still involved with withFirst Data, Money Network at the time.
(13:16):
And then the founders of some ofthese businesses would come see us
because of course they wanted togo talk to our book of business.
Right.
And we would go talk toclients and introduce it.
And at that time it was like, no, whywould I wanna pay my employees early?
Right.
It was like so I would say that wasthe reaction you got in 2015 and 16.
Probably really up until, I don'tknow, maybe traction started
(13:36):
to begin happening in 2018.
It took some of these businesses fouror five years to start getting traction.
And then we saw what happened in 2020 andin 2021 and now it's really taken off.
Let me give you a conversation, a pieceof a conversation I had yesterday.
Not yesterday, it was recently though,with a I'm gonna try to be as vague as
I can, but I also wanna make the point.
(13:57):
It's, say it's a Fortune 500CEO of a very reputable brand.
And I had the opportunity to visitwith him about earned wage access.
And the response was that, I don'tbelieve, why would I wanna, if
they're already having troubleliving paycheck to paycheck, right?
(14:20):
If, because 66% of Americans areliving paycheck to paycheck, if they're
already having trouble living paycheckto paycheck, why would I want to give
them their wages on a daily basis.
Right.
And to me, and then I'll give youmy perspective, and I want your
perspective, but the way I lookat this, Martin, is these are
truly wages that they have earned.
(14:41):
Like me as an employer shouldn'tshould give the employee who has
earned that wage the opportunity todecide when they want to access it.
They don't have to, but the opportunity,and I also should put the trust in my
employees to manage their financialaffairs, even though I know that
many of them don't in the way thatwe would all recommend that they
(15:03):
do, it's still not up to me to tryto set that discipline for them.
How do you see sort of the commentthat I received from a CEO, that's well
removed from most of the people we'retalking about, and then my perspective
on that, how do you see it yourself?
Martin Armstrong (15:19):
Well, I would say, I, maybe I can get from one
point of view, his point of view.
Why would we do that?
They can't manage their exp- theirbudgets, why would I make it worse?
Because they're gonna have to paythat back at some point in time.
And I think the simple answer is thatbased on employee demand and competitive
markets for employee talent, the more andmore employers that are gonna offer this
(15:40):
the more and more they're gonna separateworking there, where they offer EWA and
some other kind of financial wellnesstype of opportunities for employees.
Then working somewherethat doesn't have it.
Right now it's all about, environmentsand choices and opportunities
and I will say, life happens.
I don't know anybody that hasn'tworked, a day in their life and hasn't
(16:00):
been like a paycheck to paycheckperson at some point in their career.
And so they understand that things happen.
You may have a budget, but thatbudget is blown as soon as you have an
unpredictable expense that comes out,whether it's your car or something
in your house or whatever it is.
And the bottom line is that will need tobe taken care of, especially if it's your
car or some other mandatory type of thing.
(16:22):
So I'm just gonna say, as a, as ifI was a CEO and I was looking at the
marketplace, I wanna retain talent.
Especially talent that is, ishaving a hard time staying.
I don't know what their, turnoverrate might be, but I would look at
that and say, how do I retain talent?
And if EWA is a small fraction of doingso and it doesn't even cost the employer
(16:43):
any money, I think they really shouldlook twice at that because, look at
what we're talking about just over time.
And your organization right now,Instant Financial, your marketing
materials is just so spot on.
When you, I looked at some marketingmaterials you had, and you guys have
this slide that simply says (16:58):
we don't wait for anything like, for Prime, like
we don't wait 'til the weekend to shop.
We can use Amazon Prime and getit the same day in some cases, or
we don't plan rides in advance.
We just call Uber or Lyft.
We don't schedule time in to grocery shop.
We just call Instacart and certainlywe don't carry cash anymore.
Who does that?
We just Cash App or Venmo someone.
(17:20):
The bottom line is people don'twait to do various things.
And one of 'em is to this dayand time, some people just
don't wait anymore to get paid.
And so if they're gonna go toanother employer that has that
option, why wouldn't they go?
Just from a leadership standpoint, Iwould just think, listen, I know our
employees, the backbone of our company.
Nobody does this alone.
(17:42):
And if that is one small piece to retainthem because replacing an employee
is expensive and it usually generallytakes three to four months to do so.
Why wouldn't I do this?
And, just reduce the turnover rateand increase employee experience with
their satisfaction of working there.
That would be my argument.
I mean, there's so many different ways youcan take this, but at the end of the day.
(18:04):
We're talking about retaining employeesand this is an employee benefit.
So I'm gonna say, yeahthat's the reality today.
Tal Clark (18:11):
I think that's a, I think that's a great summary of it, Martin.
And it is, 'cause again, the way I justgo back to it is their money, right?
They have earned that money.
We should give them the optionof managing that money as
they need to manage it, right?
Because now, five years agowe didn't have this option.
(18:33):
Now we have this option.
So let's allow them to have the optionto manage their money as they see fit.
So, great.
I gave you an example of of a CEO thatI had the opportunity to visit with.
But I've seen this oftentimes wherewhen we start talking about executive
suites, we at Instant and I thinkin general the our businesses or our
(18:56):
competitors, we probably all are missingthe mark a little bit in regards to
communicating at the executive level,both the benefit that we provide and the
need of the benefit by their employees.
Do you see that?
And how do you, how can weas Instant improve and maybe
enhancing those communications?
Martin Armstrong (19:19):
Well, I will say as far as the supply and demand of the need,
I mean, you hit the nail on the head.
I would say, listen, if you work at aworkplace and you're one of the leaders
there, ask people what they think.
And they'll tell you, I guaranteeyou, if an employee survey was sent
out and it asked about employee orearned wage access, it gave 'em a
little high high level summary ofwhat it is and the benefits of it.
(19:42):
I doubt very seriously that most employeesto say, nah, this is a crazy idea.
humor me with something else.
So I would say go to the source.
These are for employees.
This benefit is for employee.
Ask 'em what they think and youknow what, if it comes back to
said, nah, just a waste of time,then fine, you have your answer.
But my sense would say thatmost employees would say.
(20:03):
Why didn't we have this, some time ago?
And here's another rationale for it too.
We talked about theadvent of direct deposit.
Now how popular it is.
Like it'd be crazy notto have direct deposit.
I have to tell you, I predict thatthe employee demand for competitive
markets, for, and talent and all thisthings, we talked about this, that
EWA is really just gonna catch up.
Just like, the supply chain did whenwe talked about e-commerce, right?
(20:29):
And how to enhance the service anddistribution of products and service
offerings that might someone maypurchase and say, hey, I want it now.
I mean, just think aboutthat infrastructure.
That's a whole supply chain system.
It's crazy that you can order somethingonline and get it the same day or even the
next day without having to go anywhere.
It's put a lot of companies outof business right now because they
(20:50):
have brick and mortars where youcan get the same thing for a lesser,
cheaper price and more convenient.
I do believe that EWAis gonna have its place.
When you think about it, as you mentionedearlier, EWA hasn't been around that long.
I mean, we populated the ideaof EWA back in 2016 or so, and
everyone else has caught up.
(21:11):
But when you think about it today inthis, September 2025, earned wage access
has its presence in transportation,retail, hospitality, restaurant,
and now almost every industry.
Didn't started out that way, but nowit's reached every industry and it's not
because, they were just slow to market.
It's because of demand of what employeessay they want and how to retain people.
(21:35):
That at the end of the day, thatis the only thing that matters at
this point is what people want.
And the price point to get EWA is zero.
So that's the main thing that peopleall, who are in leadership positions,
think about that it costs nothing.
Tal Clark (21:49):
That's great.
That's great.
Well, let's talk a little bit about,Martin, what else is on your agenda
as a payroll leader of a largeorganization, what else are you looking
at in considering for your employeesin your organization over the next,
let's just say year to two years?
Martin Armstrong (22:10):
Yeah, I'll have to say just looking over the landscape and
for any payroll practitioner, not justme, it is really how do we implement
certain technologies that's gonna help us.
Be more efficient in the workplacefrom an employee standpoint.
Technologies I'm most excited aboutright now with within the next one or
two years is our implementation andmore efficient use of RPA processes.
(22:33):
Payroll practitioners, a lot of thetransactions and we're a transactional
industry, so make no mistake about that.
We do a lot of transactions and with thosetransactions, you have to have processes.
And that's what RPA is all about.
Robotic process automation.
You think about certain things likepaying a deceased employee, when
you pay, when someone passes awayin your workplace, you gotta go back
(22:54):
and say, okay, which state was it in?
And then find out what state they're inand figure out from that state, who's
the next of kin legally to figure outwho's gonna get that person's wages.
Oftentimes you'll have to get a W9, which is a request for taxpayer
identification number because that otherperson obviously is not your employee.
It could be their spouseor whomever it is.
(23:15):
And we have to set thatup on accounts payable.
So, that W 9 is required.
Somebody has to go out and reach outto the the next and kin to get that.
And bottom line is, and most payrollpractitioners know this, when you pay
someone who's deceased after theirdeath that same wage payment is gonna
find its way on a W2 and a 1099.
Tal Clark (23:34):
Oh wow.
Martin Armstrong (23:35):
It's a lot of parts to do that, and a lot of communication
so we can automate that process, even ifit's just sending out notifications on
an automated basis, that would be great.
Even something like missing punchesright now, for an employer that has a
lot of non-exempt employees, the reasonwhy missing punches is an, is important,
is because obviously if they're usinga workforce management system and
(23:55):
if they've missed a punch, they'renot gonna have a perfect paycheck.
And wouldn't it be nice though, ifthere was a robotic process automation
or some type of automation that says,oh, Martin missed a punch yesterday,
and it automatically sends an emailto my people leader, my manager, so
they can go and correct the punch oreven allow me to correct the punch.
So at the end of the day, atthe end of the pay period,
(24:17):
I'm not only having 64 hours whenI should have had 80 hours 'cause
I've missed two days of punchingin and out, which sacrificed,
two days or 16 hours of my pay.
Overpayments, it's another one.
Monthly payroll.
All this stuff that we can automategetting somewhere that we physically
have to do can be automated.
So, to answer your questionfor the next one or two years.
(24:38):
We have we actually identified24 different case studies where
I work at right now where roboticprocess automation could help us.
So, I am very excited about thatbecause someone has to do it.
Why not automation?
Why not technology?
Because they don't call in sick,they don't complain about work hours.
They're so more efficient and somuch quicker and more accurate.
It's just a matter of time.
Tal Clark (24:58):
No, that's great and I'd love, I look forward to
talking to you more about that.
Maybe we get together over dinneror something that's interesting.
I haven't heard those comments aboutautomation before, so it sounds like
you're ahead of the curve there.
One thing I will say, as far as youmentioned punch clock we do know now
that earned wage programs enforcepunch clock discipline because if
you don't punch in and punch out onschedule, you don't get your offer.
(25:21):
Right.
So.
We've got a number of clients thathave elected it for that reason.
It was one of the driving reasons, so,
Martin Armstrong (25:27):
I think I read a statistic where I said it increased by
15 to even 20% in some cases, which ishuge because we're just talking about
reinforcing behavior that should alreadyhave been there in the first place, so
Tal Clark (25:38):
Yeah.
Martin Armstrong (25:39):
We can use that.
That's even better.
Tal Clark (25:42):
Absolutely.
Well, look, we're about ready to wrap up.
Martin, any, anything that wehave not touched on that you'd
like to touch on before we do?
Martin Armstrong (25:49):
Well, I will say just from a payroll practitioner
standpoint, you know the face oftoday's practitioner is much different
from 20 years ago, even 15 years ago.
So I would say that today if youwanna be really successful, whether
you're an individual contributor ora people leader, I did some research
some time ago about how do you justadvance your job into a career?
(26:11):
And I came up with five different things.
And I remember them by twoC's, two E's, and one F.
And the two C's iscommunication and competency.
You just have to be competentin what you do if you wanna
get your marketplace salary.
And communication is the key,especially in payroll, where we have
all these moving parts and we havea lot of cross-functional partners.
You gotta be really good, and not onlyjust communicating cross-functional
(26:33):
partners, but also to employees ifyou're gonna be a people leader.
So those two things, two Cs arecompetency and communication.
The two E's are embracing technology.
We've talked about technology today.
Nothing moves without technology, soyou just gotta be comfortable with that.
Then emotional intelligenceis the other one.
If you're a people leader inany, I don't care what job you're
(26:53):
in or what role or industry.
Having emotional intelligence iswhere you're gonna get the most
out of people that you dependon for your success or failure.
Listening about selfishly in that regard.
And then the one E is having financialacumen, again, if you're a people
leader individual contributor, yougotta know what you do and how that
contributes to your company's bottom line.
(27:13):
And I would say for today's practitioner,if you had those five skill sets,
communication, competency, emotionalintelligence, embracing technology,
and having some financial acumen, youare gonna last in today's environment
and and set the future for the nextgeneration above and beyond you.
So you wanna transition yourjob into a career, get those
(27:34):
five skill sets under your belt.
So that's my parting step.
Tal Clark (27:37):
That's great, Martin.
Those are great wordsand I appreciate that.
And so let's, we'll wrap up.
Martin, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
Your leadership and payrolland commitment to advance the
profession are truly inspiring.
I've enjoyed knowing you and gettingto know you better over the years.
It's been an honor havingyou on the podcast.
For our audience, you can find Martinon LinkedIn by searching for Dr.
(27:58):
Martin Armstrong.
To our listeners, you can followalong with new episodes at instant.co
/podcast and subscribewherever you get your podcast.
And as always, share the episode, leavea review and suggest a future guest.
Thanks for tuning in to theInstant Payments podcast.
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