May 1, 2025 • 51 mins
Ayo Haynes shares her transformative journey from successful real estate professional to single mother through open adoption. Her story challenges societal expectations and offers a blueprint for women who desire motherhood despite not following traditional paths.
• Ayo pursued motherhood in her 40s after unsuccessful fertility treatments
• She discovered open adoption as her path to creating a family on her own terms
• Open adoption creates respectful relationships between adoptive and birth families
• The concept of "life non-negotiables" helped her overcome limiting beliefs
• The adoption process typically costs $25,000-$60,000 with various funding options
• She traveled to five countries with her daughter before her second birthday
• Cultural expectations and family opinions often prevent women from living authentically
• Adoption agencies have varying criteria; thorough research is essential
• As an "adoption doula," Ayo now coaches other women through this journey
Visit openadoptionsuccess.com to access Ayo's guided self-reflection questionnaire and other adoption resources. Her coaching services help women navigate both the practical and emotional aspects of becoming a mother through open adoption.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cassandra (00:00):
Good day out there to all of my listeners and I'd
like to welcome you to Is yourWay In your Way podcast and I'm
your host, cassandraCrawley-Mayo, and for those new
listeners out there, that'sactually the name of my book.
My podcast is Is your Way Inyour Way and my number one
bestselling book is titled Isyour Way In your Way.
(00:23):
It's a self-discovery guide forwomen on how to restore
yourself, learn from yourexperiences and be your true
self again.
And this podcast is for womenwho are stuck, and I mean really
stuck.
For example, you know how, inyour soul, it's like something
(00:44):
is calling you to do something,if it's to write a book, get a
promotion, get out of a toxicrelationship, perhaps, or
forgive somebody, or you alwayswanted a family and you're not
even able to for some reason,but yet maybe adoption's been
calling you, maybe you shouldadopt, but yet you're reluctant
(01:06):
about that.
In other words, it's justsomething that you have not yet
made that step or executed.
So we talk about topics relatedto personal improvement, maybe
business improvement, personalgrowth and I also say that I'm
always prayerful that one ofthese podcasts will touch you
(01:27):
and all of a sudden, you willsay you know what?
There it is.
I'm going to pivot and I'mgoing to make that move and I'm
going to start living my bestlife on my terms.
And today we're going to talkabout topics.
Well, there is a topic we'regoing to talk about that's
called breaking barriers.
It's from real estate to openadoption coaching.
(01:53):
That's going to be the name ofthis podcast and I like the
welcome to two.
I'm telling her she's in theorange room and I'm going to
take her out and have her comeinto the another orange room.
And I'd like to welcome AyoHaynes to the podcast and, ayo,
what a pleasure it is to haveyou and I am just so like I
(02:15):
shared with you before.
I'm just I'm just out of thisworld about this topic because
I've never even thought aboutthere could be individuals that
want children and not maybe evenconsidered adoption.
So welcome to Is your Way Inyour Way podcast.
Ayo (02:31):
Thank you so much.
I loved your opening because itresonates with me so very much
and I was stuck, in fact, in mylife and we can explore how that
came to me being a coach butabsolutely can testify to say
(02:53):
yes to what you have talkedabout with your listeners.
Cassandra (02:57):
Awesome, Awesome.
Before I get started, I justwant to read a little bit of
your bio so that my listenerswill understand what qualifies
you to do what you're currentlydoing, and also about other
things you've done throughoutyour life as well, which I'm
going to call your journey.
Ayo Haynes is a dynamic speakerand an advocate who proves that
(03:20):
when you courageously pursueyour passion, you don't just
change your own life, you ignitepossibilities in others.
After leaving a high-profile TVcareer and real estate and
embracing single motherhoodthrough open adoption, she has
discovered that the redefiningsocietal expectations can create
(03:42):
a ripple effect of empowermentand growth, From challenging
traditional views on motherhoodto guiding women toward
financial independence andpersonal freedom.
Her story shows that by livingauthentically and I say
authentically, and you know,guys, that's what I
wholeheartedly believe in andchampion your dreams, you
(04:04):
inspire others to do the same.
Her insight on open adoption,debunking myths about single
parenting and designing a lifeon your own terms will resonate
with anyone that's eager to turnself-doubt into
self-determination.
One other thing she alsoco-authored a best-selling book
(04:27):
through Amazon called Ready Set,Live Empowered Strategies for
an Enlightened Life.
That sounds like a great book,guys.
Right, You're ready, get set,it's time to live, Wow.
So Ayo, tell us about yourselfbefore you embarked on your
(04:48):
mission.
Now listen, this is her mission.
Her mission is to empowersingle women to pursue their
dreams of motherhood throughadoption.
And even though perhaps you maynot be single, you know you
have friends that are single, sojust know, and perhaps you're
(05:08):
the one that may want to thinkabout this as we move forward
and go through this interview.
So, yes, please tell, tell yourbackstory.
Well, first of all, before yourmission, tell us a little bit
about yourself before thismission came about.
Ayo (05:30):
Yes, before this mission came about, I was an actress, I
was also a realtor.
I was doing both of them at thesame time.
When one was down, the otherone was up, and so it was a
really nice flow of income.
And, just you know, being ableto travel.
I was still in my 30s, 20s, 30s, 40s, still in my 30s, 20s, 30s
, 40s doing that before I becamean open adoption success coach.
And I have traveled all overthe world.
(05:56):
I've been to all 50 states.
I am someone who sees somethingthat interests them and I go do
it.
And that was my life, you know,before deciding to become a
mother Although being a motherwas always in the back of my
mind as a child even I as achild I envisioned my life with
being married, with four kids, adog, cat, car, picket, fence,
(06:17):
all of that.
And I had, at different times,relationships that seemed like
they would go to marriage.
At different times,relationships that seem like
they would go to marriage.
But by the time a crucial timein my fertility window I wasn't
in a relationship.
I had built the career Great,and I had been nationally
recognized by real estate boardsand been on HGTV selling New
(06:38):
York.
I'd been all done, all theseincredible things, but I didn't
have the husband and I didn'thave the baby.
And part of the backstory is isI'm a PK, I'm a preacher's kid.
My mother was the firstAfrican-American woman ordained
in New York city for thePresbyterian church, so you know
(06:58):
I'm someone who goes to church.
There's an expectation of howyour life should be and I had to
have a really hard conversationwith her.
What I thought was going to behard.
It was actually easier than Iimagined and I I I'm not in a
place where I'm finding ahusband so that I can have a
(07:18):
family as it's supposed tohappen, supposed to in quotes
and I said I think I'm going todo this on my own and she was
supportive and so on my ownmeant that I started with
fertility treatments going toget IUI treatments, ivf
treatments.
None of them worked.
They depleted my bank account.
(07:40):
Thankfully, in real estate Ihad built up enough money to be
able to do this.
But if you look at the long-termeffect, you're like, okay, this
is not sustainable.
I can't be doing IVF treatmentsfor 15 K a pop and.
Iui treatments for 2,500 to5,000 a pop right.
It's not sustainable and it'sreally hard on your body
(08:02):
physically.
With the hormones there's theup and down of whether you're
pregnant or not taking apregnancy test and seeing the
negative.
And eventually, I just said,okay, I have to go a different
route, and adoption was notnecessarily something I
considered.
I had seen it modeled in myfamily with different family
(08:24):
members.
And then, with a particularcousin, I had a chance to hold a
little baby who changed my lifein that moment.
And I said if she can do it, Ican do it and that's what I'm
doing.
If I can do it, you can do it.
Cassandra (08:42):
Oh, what a great story.
I love that story, you know,because I know I have a lot of
listeners that want to bemarried.
I'm not sure why I mean and Isay that I'm not saying it's a
bad thing, a good thing but I'mjust saying why do you want to
get married, you know, is it tohave a family or just to have
companionship?
(09:02):
Or is it because that's what wewere told?
We were told when we finishedhigh school and had the
opportunity to go to college?
We get a job, we get a husband,we get the house with the white
picket fence, we have thechildren and all of that.
And when those expectationswhich are their expectation,
(09:24):
some of my listeners'expectations, when that doesn't
happen, they don't feel good.
I mean, emotionally, they arenot in a good place.
And I can say that for myselfbecause I was one that wanted
the family and the kids and themarriage and the picket fence.
And what happened with me is Iwas a career girl, I worked in
(09:47):
corporate, as many of mylisteners are aware, and I was a
bit bothered that, wow, I can't, I'm not having any.
I don't want to say luck, butthere was no one out there that
I felt that be comfortable inmarrying and I wanted to
(10:07):
reiterate my story with yourstory because you still had a
passion and, for those that arelistening, still have a passion.
If you've not married yet,there's still some things that
you have a heart's desire to do.
And just listen to Ayo that washer heart's desire is to have
that husband have that fence.
(10:28):
She doesn't have that, but lifegoes on.
She sounds like that.
She had some limiting beliefsthat she has overcome and also
so now I would say she is atrailblazer in open adoption.
And what could you explain?
(10:49):
I know what a trailblazer is,but a trailblazer in open
adoption.
What is open adoption?
What is that?
Ayo (10:59):
Yes, well, first I want to go back to what you said about
your lifelong dream.
So that lifelong dream that Ihad as a older person in my
forties and actually I didn'tcome to the term until I was
coaching and explaining how Igot to this place to clients and
I realized I termed this thingcalled my life non-negotiable
(11:22):
right, not just a lifelong dream.
But what is it that I'm notwilling to leave this earth
without having experienced andfor me it was motherhood.
So it's not just a dream.
It was a yearning that I haveto do this in order to feel
fulfilled, and I know that Goddidn't put me on this earth with
this great dream and urge tonot have that fulfilled.
(11:52):
So I had to go through theprocess, as you said, of
changing mindset.
Am I going to be limited bysocietal norms?
Or looking at the reality of mylife, the desires of my heart,
and say, okay, what is it thatyou can do to achieve this?
And so, 10 years later, mydaughter's now 10, her story,
our story, is amazing.
It's a miracle in itself.
(12:12):
I didn't have a lot of help innavigating the open adoption
journey period and then the openadoption journey.
So adoption has you goingthrough the path to become a
mother, through someone placingtheir child with you to raise,
and that's adoption.
Cassandra (12:34):
One thing I'm sorry to cut you off, but I have a
question Were you coachingbefore you start pursuing this
adoption or you started coachingas you were pursuing?
You realize that was something,a gift you had that could help
others, because I understand youwere in real estate.
You did a phenomenal job inreal estate.
(12:56):
You were on television and allof that.
So did the coaching start withyou pursuing the adoption, open
adoption?
Ayo (13:05):
Well, actually, the coaching actually started when I
became a certified mentor inreal estate.
So I was coaching in realestate, but not not in adoption
at all.
Cassandra (13:16):
You know when I was in it.
Ayo (13:17):
it was so very new there, I was experiencing it, I.
There was no way for me to lookback and say, oh yeah, I could
help somebody else.
Not at that point.
I was still trying to figureeverything out myself.
Um, but now, 10 years later,and looking at what I have been
able to create with the birthfamily, what I've been able to
(13:39):
establish within therelationship with my daughter,
um, I realized, oh, you do havea lot to share, and this is this
experience has not been for youto go through, to keep it to
yourself.
You've gone through this inorder to share with others who
are in the same position, havethe same desire and are either
(14:00):
considering never becoming amother because they can't do it
in the normal way, or they justneed to find the right person,
the right coach, to say yes, youcan do this, and I'm going to
show you how.
Cassandra (14:14):
Okay, okay, so you found someone that helped you.
Ayo (14:20):
No, I didn't, so everything was on your own Everything Okay
.
For the most part, yes, yes, Ihad to.
I had to figure it out and anextended amount of time because
I was operating from a recordplaying that wasn't my record,
(14:49):
that I had heard from society.
Oh the birth family is going tobe jealous of you or angry, or
they're the enemy, and so youhave that playing in your mind
and that's not necessarily thetruth.
The truth is that when birthparents are putting a child,
placing a child for adoption,they want the best for that
(15:11):
child.
They want to know that thedecision that they're making and
putting their child with you isgoing to result in their child
having the best possible lifethat they possibly could have
and that they could not givethem themselves.
So the relationship.
If you start with that, if youstart with a place of grace,
(15:33):
then you understand that there'sno need for fear or one party
against the other.
We're a team because we have agenuine desire for the well
being of that child that we havein common.
Cassandra (15:49):
So, when you were okay because I know there are
different reasons why people puttheir children up for adoption
Like, one of them indicated thatit's for the child's best
interest that they do that, andthen there's some they have to,
you know, and there are perhapssome other reasons, but when you
(16:13):
were pursuing that, was it aprerequisite for you to adopt
someone whose parents wanted toput them up for adoption because
they wanted better for them, ordid you know the reason that
you want to know what the reasonwas why a child was put up for
(16:35):
adoption?
And these are newborns, right?
You wanted to adopt a newborn,right?
Ayo (16:42):
For me, yes, that was always my dream.
I always had a dream of beingpregnant, so I wanted to know
what that felt like, and if Ididn't have that opportunity to
be pregnant, I certainly wantedthe experience of mothering a
newborn domestically, through aprivate adoption or through a
(17:09):
birth family right?
If you're talking about someone, or the child has been taken
out of the home or you knowthere's some kind of safety
concern, then that means thatthe city or state has stepped in
and that child is now probablyunder guardianship of the county
or the city.
That's a little different.
That means that child welfareis involved.
And then that also is a littlebit difficult to not impossible,
(17:35):
but it's going to take a lotmore effort to create an open
and friendly relationship withthe birth parent, because in the
situation where a child isremoved, their parental rights
are generally, generally, um,terminated, okay, and that, that
, and if you're terminatingrights that are not wanting to
(17:58):
be terminated, then that canlead to contention.
But people going to birthparents and birth mothers going
through the adoption processthey have already decided that
this is best for the child andfor them and they're not going
to protest termination of therights, which means then the
adoptive parent can take overthe parental rights and be
(18:18):
issued those rights.
Cassandra (18:20):
Good Thanks for the clarification.
So is there a like what agency?
I'm sure there are a number ofthem that you can go to when
you're ready to adopt, andwhat's the criteria that the
agency is looking for for you todo that?
Ayo (18:50):
Well, each agency has their own criteria.
You would have to go online andjust go through, look on the
internet and see which ones havewhich criteria.
I actually have a list on mywebsite that people can go to
openadoptionsuccesscom, and youcan go there and there's a link
to a download that will show youwhat the bigger agencies are
looking for.
You can also adopt through aprivate adoption.
It could be someone you know atyour church or your work and
(19:11):
they know a young woman who'swanting to place their child for
adoption.
You don't have to go through anadoption agency and you can also
obviously go abroad overseas,but that generally is you're
going to be looking at an olderchild and a lot more paperwork
and a lot more waiting.
Cassandra (19:32):
So what?
You decided to go to a certainagency, and if so, why?
Ayo (19:42):
Initially, I went to a Christian agency, but I didn't
finish at the Christian agencyand I would say that if you're
looking at an agency, don'tlimit yourself to a denomination
.
You want to choose an agencythat has good staffing, that
(20:03):
understands what you are lookingfor, that listens to you, that
doesn't impose their wishes uponyou, because we each have a
mindset Not, I shouldn't say,mindset.
We each have a way ofenvisioning ourselves as mothers
.
Right, I envisioned myself as amother who traveled all over
(20:23):
the world with my baby.
My motto was have baby willtravel, and I was going to
continue my lifestyle of travel.
So that meant that I needed achild who could keep up with me,
right, basically, physically.
So taking a child that hadphysical ailments or that was
(20:45):
neurodivergent or something likethat, wasn't going to work for
the lifestyle that.
I envisioned for myself, butthat doesn't mean that there are
single women or couples outthere who are graced by God to
be able to take on a baby thathas neurodivergency or has some
(21:07):
kind of physical ailment.
There are parents out there forevery kind of child out there.
That's the beautiful part aboutit and that's the beautiful
part of adoption, and so don'tlimit yourself that way.
Do your homework, find out ifthey are they listening to what
(21:27):
it is that you want.
Cassandra (21:28):
How much?
Ayo (21:29):
do they cost?
What's their process like?
Are you as a single woman puton the back burner, or are you
presented to birth parents in anequal measure to couples?
You know there's all of thosetype of things.
Do they give you any kind oftraining?
They give you any kind oftraining?
(21:50):
Do they offer classes?
Do you want one that's local toyou, or are you able to travel
across the country at the dropof a dime because you have to
get there?
So there are all sorts ofreasons to choose and look at a
particular agency.
Cassandra (22:01):
Right, so what you're saying is, depending on the
agency, they all some asked.
They all perhaps asked similarquestions, but some of them can
be very different, differentquestions.
Ayo (22:11):
Oh yeah, absolutely, and you want to also make sure that
you are happy with that agencybefore you give your money.
Because, I was with that agencyand another opportunity for a
child came about and I hadliterally just paid my money, my
(22:31):
down payment, the first payment, when I got the call to be
considered for another agencythat was local to me.
Cassandra (22:39):
And.
Ayo (22:39):
I called them all happy.
I was like hey, guess what Igot chosen by a birth mother, so
can you refund my money?
They're like sorry, no, I hadalready given it.
Yeah, per our rules.
So you want to be sure whichagency you're going with and I
would not.
I would say I would notrecommend going with an agency
(23:02):
until your paperwork iscompleted.
You know that means that yourhome study is done, that you
have done all your fingerprints,that you have the AOK to be
able to take a child home fromthe hospital.
I would recommend, you know,going about six months or so and
looking for yourself to see youmight be able to avoid some
(23:26):
costly payments going byyourself.
But then if going by yourselfand going that route does not
feel good to you or it's noteasy enough, then go with an
agency but just make sure thatonce you pay your money, you're
okay with losing it If a babycomes another way and not
through that agency.
Cassandra (23:46):
Yeah, and of course, cost is a factor and it can
range from what to what, basedon your research.
Ayo (23:56):
It can range from $25,000 to $60,000.
It really depends.
If you're going overseas, thereare more costs involved.
It depends on the agency, howsmall the agency is or how large
it is, how much staff they have.
Right, it's like any otherthing.
They have overhead and so theyhave to build in costs based on
(24:17):
what it means to have afunctioning agency.
So, you know women in their 40sand 50s who are professional.
Like you and I.
We generally have money savedaway or we have access to money.
We have a 401k, we havesomething, we have disposable
income, so that age groupgenerally is able to afford
(24:43):
adoption.
You will have to put money down, payments, and they can break
it up.
You're not paying the $60,000cost or $25,000 cost all at once
.
It's by, you know,incrementally.
But you also get a tax credit.
So I forget the amount for thisyear, I want to say 14,000, but
(25:04):
whatever the, you can easilysearch the number.
Just go online and find outwhat the adoption tax credit is
for 2024.
And it hasn't really changedover the last couple of years,
but that's a huge benefit, right?
If you're thinking about, youknow, a $35,000 fee from an
agency knocking $14,000 off.
(25:26):
You're not getting anything incash, but you're getting it off
of your taxes and you know thereare many scholarships out there
.
There are agencies and some ofthe agencies have their own
scholarship programs.
There are foundations out therethat give money to people who
are looking to adopt.
Yeah, and you can docrowdfunding if you wanted to.
(25:49):
You know, get your family andfriends involved in your dream
of motherhood.
So it shouldn't, don't letmoney be the factor that stops
you either.
Cassandra (25:58):
Okay, okay, wow.
That's some great, greatinformation.
You talked about a holisticapproach to adoption, right?
Tell us about that holisticapproach.
Ayo (26:17):
So I think of the adoption process as an ongoing journey.
It's not just one thing right,it's a series of minor miracles
that leads up to a major miracle, and so I like to take care of
my clients mentally Like whereare you?
(26:37):
Is this something that youreally feel like you are called
to?
Is this something that you wantor that you feel there's an
expectation from family, or viceversa?
So, dealing with mindset, whatI'm working with with one client
who's just starting theiradoption journey, and a client
that's already doing theirpaperwork and a client that is
(27:00):
bringing baby home and a clientthat's had a baby home for a
year is completely different,but it all involves remembering
to honor what it is that youwant for your life.
What is your truth?
How is it that you would wantsomeone to treat and interact
with you?
(27:21):
So, there's no.
When I talk about working withbirth families, they're not the
enemy.
They're not the enemy.
When I say open adoption, Imean not only are you having a
conversation or in conversationwith them.
It could be through a socialworker, through the agency.
Mine happens to be directcontact.
(27:41):
And we decided that in thehospital it's all individualized
, but it also means open in thatin your, within your home, your
child understands how yourfamily came to be, because of
how they were brought into yourlife.
There's no secrets, there's nofear.
We don't operate in fear.
And holistically, if we canerase fear from the whole
(28:06):
process.
you breathe, and I say that witha lot of looking back, because
I when I say, cassandra, I hadmy hands on the wheel trying to
direct traffic and make thisprocess go faster because, as a
single woman, I was told, yeah,you can adopt, but it's going to
take you about a year and ahalf before you find a birth
(28:26):
parent that's going to be giveto, to have you be their child's
parent, because you're single.
That turned out not to be true.
Again, we can't listen to whateveryone tells us, right,
because what God has for us isfor us and his timing is beyond
anything that man can ever canconstruct.
So we can't go with whatnormally happens, because every
(28:51):
single adoption story isslightly different in some way.
I mean, there's no two waysthat it all happened right.
And so holistically.
We deal with the whole person,the whole you.
Making sure you're confident inwho you are, confident in your
decisions, confident in yourjudgment, confident in includes
(29:13):
changing how you are nowemployed, because you now want
to be home with your childinstead of being away nine to
(29:33):
five and having a babysitter.
Like you didn't go through allof that to become a mother, to
then spend all these hoursoutside of the house.
So I find a lot of women thendecide to become entrepreneurs
or work from home so they canstill have that experience of
being able to be a full-time mom.
Cassandra (29:52):
What do you think?
What is the benefit for thebirth mother, from your opinion,
to know where?
I know there are advantages anddisadvantages for the birth
mother to know where their childis, because I know people who
have adopted someone and theydidn't want the mother to know
(30:16):
because they thought when thechild got older they want to go
see their mom, they want to findtheir mother or whatever.
Right, so what?
I guess I said that thebenefits or advantages maybe, or
disadvantages, because itsounds like for you what you
wanted was to know the birthmother.
You want to be involved in that.
(30:37):
Were you hesitant or did youwant to know?
Did you?
You wanted your child to knowthe birth mother?
Uh huh, and so I Right, so I'ma very inquisitive person.
Ayo (30:48):
Did you want to know?
Did you?
You wanted your child to knowthe birth mother, right?
So I'm a very inquisitiveperson.
I probably could have been aprivate detector.
Like I have questions.
That's why I'm good withinterviews.
I have questions.
I want to.
I want to know what the answeris Right.
And so, like all of us, when wedon't have the answer, answer
(31:09):
is Right.
And so, like all of us, when wedon't have the answer, usually
the worst thing that can happenis that we create the answer in
our head and the answer isprobably so far away from the
truth that it either stops us inour place from moving forward
or we're we're working off ofwrong assumption.
So I didn't want to do that.
I don't like to to live my lifethat way.
(31:29):
I like to have direct talkswith people, right and I.
Sometimes it's very difficult,right?
It's not easy to have a heartto heart.
So, yes, I definitely wanted toknow who she was.
I did not have that privilegein the pregnancy.
It wasn't until the day she wasgiving birth that I met her and
(31:51):
we connected in the deliveryroom and that was where the open
adoption, the openness, cameabout, because we said, oh,
you're human, I'm human, all wedo, all we want, is for the best
for this child.
Do you want to keep in touch?
Okay, and it's been respectful.
It hasn't been like I wantpictures, give me pictures.
(32:13):
Who's the?
No, none of that.
It's very respectful on theirside.
I'm very easily giving thempictures to say, hey, you
probably want to see thispicture, you know and and be
able to say this is your child.
Imagine if you placed a childup for adoption and you never
(32:36):
saw them again, and perhaps younever even saw them when you
when you birth them.
What kind of stories are youcreating in your head?
You're you in this place of, Iwonder, I wonder is this child
walking past me, my daughter ormy son?
What would she look like now?
(32:56):
That's wasted energy.
When you can easily have accessto that, when I can say, hey,
here's her first birthday,here's this, here's that.
By the way, who in your familyis tall?
Um, can you, would you mindshowing me what the rest of your
family looks like?
And these are things that happenover time.
But it's just like a, a basicfriendship, right?
(33:21):
We're not asking you to be bestbuds.
If you become best buds overtime, amazing but it's about
having a respectful relationshipwith the family.
That graced you with the thingthat you said you wanted most
and you asked God for it and hedelivered.
So that means that I can only,and I should only, consider my
(33:45):
interaction with her with graceand love, as long as there's no
reason for me to put separation.
If there's a reason for me to befearful about my child's
well-being, okay, that's a wholedifferent story.
But that's not the reality, andthat's not the reality for most
people, in fact.
People, birth parents, birthmothers who do not see their
(34:08):
children, who do not say goodbyein the hospital, are the ones
who will cancel the adoption.
So why would you not I let mydaughter's birth mother spend
time with her at the hospital,say goodbye, mourn her.
(34:28):
There's joy on one side in myroom, right.
Everybody's like, oh my gosh,we're so happy for you, and then
you have a mourning.
It's almost like a death rightyou have to appreciate the grief
that's going on on the otherside.
That's going on on the otherside, and so how much better is
(34:54):
it that you do not have adoption?
That is being reversed becausethey have the answers, they have
the relationship.
And everyone I talk to says it'sthe best thing.
It makes their lives on bothsides so much better.
And imagine I'm raising a childwho doesn't have to wonder,
well, why, why wasn't I kept?
(35:16):
And for people say she'll goback to her mother.
No, that's not her mother.
I'm her mother, that's herbirth mother, that's her birth
parent, the person who broughther into the world.
But she doesn't know her as amother.
I'm the mother.
So why would she, why would Ihave a fear that she'd want to,
(35:36):
you know, leave my home to go toher?
Does she have a desire to getto know her?
Absolutely, and that's normal.
Cassandra (35:43):
So that's what we work with and that's normal.
So that's what we work with,wow, wow.
And your coaching definitelysupports that whole thing,
because you've probably seen itall as it relates to that.
And, as I indicated, I do knowpeople who have adopted and as
they get what they say, whenthey become teenagers they say
(36:06):
they start smelling themselvesand they'll say well, I'll go
find my mother.
You know, it's just part of,you know, I guess, adolescence
or whatever Right, so I meanthere are people who will say
that yeah, yeah, but there areother kids who you know, it's
not even a thought to them.
Ayo (36:25):
OK.
Cassandra (36:27):
OK, ok, ok, great, could, ok.
So I was going to ask you aboutliving on your terms.
So that journey you went on,that transformative journey that
you went on, that that was onyour terms.
Right, you were like I stillwant to work, you travel, you
(36:49):
indicated when you had her andum, and she's how old now Nine?
Ayo (36:55):
Yeah, she'll be, she'll be 10.
And before her second birthdayand before the pandemic happened
, we had visited five countries.
Um, I brought her with meeverywhere you know.
Cassandra (37:06):
it was like let's go Wow, okay, that's that's.
That's a great story.
That's awesome.
Did you have being single?
Was that a barrier?
Initially because the agenciesthink that the child should have
(37:28):
a mother and a dad.
Like, what was your experiencewith that?
I think it's more.
Ayo (37:36):
I don't think it's necessarily.
The agencies think that thechild should have a mother and a
dad that the birth parents orthe birth mother more than
likely will want a double, youknow, a husband and wife for
their child, as opposed to asingle family household.
But a lot of birth mothers whoare, you know, in the adoption
(37:58):
process or considering adoptioncome from single family homes,
so it's not unusual for them togo.
This makes sense to me.
This having her, a singlemother, raise a child makes
sense.
It's okay.
And, you know, in my case thebirth mother said she's single
but she won't be for long andforever.
And it's true.
I mean, I haven't found myhusband yet, but I have every
(38:21):
desire and intention to find himand I know at the right time it
will happen.
Cassandra (38:28):
Yeah, exactly, exactly Wow.
Ayo (38:33):
Talk about Sandra.
Oh, sorry, I was going to say Iactually have a client who is
still dating and she has a newbaby that she just adopted.
So if you are on that track ofdating, you don't have to stop
it as long as you have a greatsupport system you can still go
ahead and date because you stillhave that dream of finding a
(38:55):
husband, of being a wife, ofhaving your child have a father.
So you can't sit home for therest of your life expecting to
find a man.
If that is your desire, youhave to get out, you have to
still date, you still have tohave a life.
Cassandra (39:12):
Right, I love yourself.
I think it's theself-reflection questionnaire
you know for individuals who arethinking so you will provide
that information for them andthen you will talk through it
because you want to make surethat the rationale behind
wanting to adopt is not selfishRight.
Ayo (39:35):
Well, it's not necessarily selfish.
It's more that you know what itis that you want.
Because you want to create anadoption plan I, like I've been
using the term adoption doularight, if you are a woman who's
pregnant and you want to set abirth plan about how you're
going to deliver and all of that, you work with someone, a doula
(39:57):
, to record that.
The same thing with me, right?
I want you to say do you want aboy?
Do you want a girl?
Does it matter?
Do they, um, can, can they haveany kind of physical ailments?
Do you want a black child, awhite child, a mixed child?
This, I want you to be so clear, because in being clear, you
(40:17):
will also call into God, willmake it very happen that you
will find the child that you arevery clear about, and so you
don't have to worry that whenpresented by the agency with
another child that's outside ofwhat you said you can go back
and say, hmm, I did say this,but does this really pertain to
(40:41):
me right now?
Would I be okay with a girl,even though I said I wanted a
boy, you know.
So it's a conversation piece,so it's not about selfishness.
It's more about being selfishfor yourself and not being
pulled here and there by otherpeople's opinion about how you
(41:01):
should live your life, based onyour marital status, if you want
to have a child.
Cassandra (41:09):
Right, okay, yeah, because I do remember I had a
I'm not saying any names, but anindividual who wanted to adopt
and the parents were against itbecause she was single.
So therefore, because herparents were against it, she
never did, but by the grace ofGod she got married and he had
(41:35):
children.
So that helped in a great way.
And then after that, then hehad a child, so then she had a
baby, a grandchild baby, so itall it all worked out, yeah.
Ayo (41:49):
Well, there's a.
I will say that she stilldidn't get the child that she
wanted but, yes, it's you knowyou, your spouse's kids are
yours, but you still wanted thatlittle baby of yours that you
couldn't say.
I raised from from the cradleand I will say that it is not
(42:09):
fair for other people in thefamily, including parents, to
impose upon their adult childrenwhat it is that they want for
their child how to live theirlife when they've already had
the chance to live their ownlife.
And when they are gone, whodoes your child have, literally,
I mean?
(42:32):
I was raised in a single familyhousehold.
My dad passed away 10 yearsbefore my daughter came along
and then my mom passed away 10months before my daughter came
to be, before my daughter cameto be, came to, was born.
So if I had listened if that'snot the case, right, neither
(42:57):
said anything about my situation.
But if that had been the case,where am I when I don't have a
mother, a father, brothers orsisters?
And but I have this huge desire?
But because I felt it was moreimportant to live up to their
expectations of me rather thanmy desire for my own happiness,
what will make me happy?
I'm left holding an empty bag?
No, no, they live their life.
(43:19):
You say thank you so very much.
I appreciate and respect youropinion, but I have to do what's
in my heart and I pray that youwill come around and support me
when I bring your grandchildhome.
Well, said well said, right,right, that's it, yeah, and I'm
(43:39):
not going to say that.
Cassandra (43:40):
Right, and that's why I was talking about people are
stuck.
They're stuck because of whatsomebody else wants them to do,
not being their true self andnot living on their terms, and
it's not a bad thing.
It's what you want.
It's not what other people want, but yet you can share that
with respect to the parent orwhomever thinks that it's not a
(44:01):
great idea, and for them tostate it, as you did and I think
that was well said and I thinkit definitely needed to be said
on on is your way, in your way,because that's one way you get
in your way by doing and wantingto do to please other people.
So thanks so much for sayingthat.
Ayo (44:22):
And you said something earlier about, you know, being a
career woman.
We know that, statistically,people who have higher degrees
tend to not have as manychildren and they have them
later.
Now add a layer of black womenor minority women.
Right, there are lesscounterparts on that same
educational level.
(44:43):
There's the mismatch of numbershappens right.
So you have to then decide okay,how am I going to proceed
forward?
And we then couple all of thatwith the cultural normalities of
in our culture, black culture,you are told to be respectful of
(45:06):
your elders, you listen to whatthey say, you speak when you're
spoken to, only and not any.
And all those layers makesthere a record playing in the
background that keeps us fromliving our authentic lives.
And so at some point we have tobreak that record.
(45:27):
We have to say I have to goagainst the norm and live
according to what God has placedin my heart.
And I'm a reasonable woman, I'ma smart woman, I'm an educated
woman, I know a few things aboutlife, so I know what's best for
me and trust that.
Cassandra (45:48):
Exactly, exactly, well said, ayo, I love that.
So call to action Because, as Iindicated, even if my listeners
have this desire to think whatyou're talking about is
something that they alwayswanted but didn't because of
(46:10):
those limiting, those roadblocksthat you just talked about, um,
I wanted you to, um, tell themhow to get to your what I your
guided self-reflectionquestionnaire In this way.
It'll help them to understandwhat they truly want and how to
(46:32):
prepare and I am challengingthose who are have this desire
or this urge, or somethingyou've always wanted to make a
move and do that call to actionplan with the questionnaire.
So, again, share with them, mylisteners, how can they get to
(46:54):
that questionnaire and what theycan expect after they complete
it.
Ayo (47:02):
So there are no right or wrong answers to the
questionnaire.
It's really for us to one, foryou to have a conversation with
yourself, write it down and thenwe'll have a conversation, and
you can find that questionnaireand other resources regarding
adoption on my website calledopenadoptionsuccesscom.
(47:25):
You can also find me throughadoptionduelacom It'll go
straight there.
I'm working on other resources.
I'm almost finished with ablueprint the single woman's
blueprint for adopting, andthat'll take them through a
webinar and then there'll be alonger course, a four-week
course.
So stay in touch with me.
(47:47):
New things are developing allthe time.
I have group coaching.
I have a Facebook group alsothat they can find.
I'm easily found on socialmedia and I'm excited to be able
to work with any woman and anycouple actually, couples are
coming now too, who are have aheart to have a child and they
(48:10):
just need to know how tonavigate that path to to
adoption and then to establish arelationship with the birth
mother or birth family thatleads to openness and and a
child who will feel very lovedfrom both sides.
Cassandra (48:29):
So listeners take this as a confirmation of
something that you perhaps beenthinking Maybe you're not able
to have you to be the birthmother, but you can still be the
mother, the birth mother, butyou can still be the mother.
(48:50):
So I just encourage you and Iwant to thank Ayo for her time.
This has opened up my eyes.
This is something that I'm notfamiliar with at all, but,
thanks to Ms Haynes, she'sopened my eyes and increased my
understanding.
Ms Haynes, she's opened my eyesand increased my understanding
(49:12):
and as I come across individualswhich I'm certain that I will I
will certainly refer them toyou, ayo, and I just want to
thank you for being the person,the doula, the advocate,
something unique, something I'venot heard of before, advocate
something unique, something I'venot heard of before, and I know
from this, because my listenersare going to share this.
It's going to be on all podcastplatforms and I ask if you'd
(49:37):
like this podcast or love thepodcast, please click subscribe
to it and also feel free toshare it with anybody that you
know.
This will be a blessing to.
So, again, I could talk.
I have more questions becauseI'm a curious person, but we can
(49:59):
go on and on, but my listeners,they know how to get in touch
with you and I just want tothank you very, very much for
what you're offering the world.
God bless you.
Bye, for now.
Ayo (50:11):
Thank you so much.
Cassandra (50:12):
Yeah, and my listeners.
I say to you bye for now aswell, God bless.
Good day out there to all of my listeners and I'd
like to welcome you to Is yourWay In your Way podcast and I'm
your host, cassandraCrawley-Mayo, and for those new
listeners out there, that'sactually the name of my book.
My podcast is Is your Way Inyour Way and my number one
bestselling book is titled Isyour Way In your Way.
(00:23):
It's a self-discovery guide forwomen on how to restore
yourself, learn from yourexperiences and be your true
self again.
And this podcast is for womenwho are stuck, and I mean really
stuck.
For example, you know how, inyour soul, it's like something
(00:44):
is calling you to do something,if it's to write a book, get a
promotion, get out of a toxicrelationship, perhaps, or
forgive somebody, or you alwayswanted a family and you're not
even able to for some reason,but yet maybe adoption's been
calling you, maybe you shouldadopt, but yet you're reluctant
(01:06):
about that.
In other words, it's justsomething that you have not yet
made that step or executed.
So we talk about topics relatedto personal improvement, maybe
business improvement, personalgrowth and I also say that I'm
always prayerful that one ofthese podcasts will touch you
(01:27):
and all of a sudden, you willsay you know what?
There it is.
I'm going to pivot and I'mgoing to make that move and I'm
going to start living my bestlife on my terms.
And today we're going to talkabout topics.
Well, there is a topic we'regoing to talk about that's
called breaking barriers.
It's from real estate to openadoption coaching.
(01:53):
That's going to be the name ofthis podcast and I like the
welcome to two.
I'm telling her she's in theorange room and I'm going to
take her out and have her comeinto the another orange room.
And I'd like to welcome AyoHaynes to the podcast and, ayo,
what a pleasure it is to haveyou and I am just so like I
(02:15):
shared with you before.
I'm just I'm just out of thisworld about this topic because
I've never even thought aboutthere could be individuals that
want children and not maybe evenconsidered adoption.
So welcome to Is your Way Inyour Way podcast.
Ayo (02:31):
Thank you so much.
I loved your opening because itresonates with me so very much
and I was stuck, in fact, in mylife and we can explore how that
came to me being a coach butabsolutely can testify to say
(02:53):
yes to what you have talkedabout with your listeners.
Cassandra (02:57):
Awesome, Awesome.
Before I get started, I justwant to read a little bit of
your bio so that my listenerswill understand what qualifies
you to do what you're currentlydoing, and also about other
things you've done throughoutyour life as well, which I'm
going to call your journey.
Ayo Haynes is a dynamic speakerand an advocate who proves that
(03:20):
when you courageously pursueyour passion, you don't just
change your own life, you ignitepossibilities in others.
After leaving a high-profile TVcareer and real estate and
embracing single motherhoodthrough open adoption, she has
discovered that the redefiningsocietal expectations can create
(03:42):
a ripple effect of empowermentand growth, From challenging
traditional views on motherhoodto guiding women toward
financial independence andpersonal freedom.
Her story shows that by livingauthentically and I say
authentically, and you know,guys, that's what I
wholeheartedly believe in andchampion your dreams, you
(04:04):
inspire others to do the same.
Her insight on open adoption,debunking myths about single
parenting and designing a lifeon your own terms will resonate
with anyone that's eager to turnself-doubt into
self-determination.
One other thing she alsoco-authored a best-selling book
(04:27):
through Amazon called Ready Set,Live Empowered Strategies for
an Enlightened Life.
That sounds like a great book,guys.
Right, You're ready, get set,it's time to live, Wow.
So Ayo, tell us about yourselfbefore you embarked on your
(04:48):
mission.
Now listen, this is her mission.
Her mission is to empowersingle women to pursue their
dreams of motherhood throughadoption.
And even though perhaps you maynot be single, you know you
have friends that are single, sojust know, and perhaps you're
(05:08):
the one that may want to thinkabout this as we move forward
and go through this interview.
So, yes, please tell, tell yourbackstory.
Well, first of all, before yourmission, tell us a little bit
about yourself before thismission came about.
Ayo (05:30):
Yes, before this mission came about, I was an actress, I
was also a realtor.
I was doing both of them at thesame time.
When one was down, the otherone was up, and so it was a
really nice flow of income.
And, just you know, being ableto travel.
I was still in my 30s, 20s, 30s, 40s, still in my 30s, 20s, 30s
, 40s doing that before I becamean open adoption success coach.
And I have traveled all overthe world.
(05:56):
I've been to all 50 states.
I am someone who sees somethingthat interests them and I go do
it.
And that was my life, you know,before deciding to become a
mother Although being a motherwas always in the back of my
mind as a child even I as achild I envisioned my life with
being married, with four kids, adog, cat, car, picket, fence,
(06:17):
all of that.
And I had, at different times,relationships that seemed like
they would go to marriage.
At different times,relationships that seem like
they would go to marriage.
But by the time a crucial timein my fertility window I wasn't
in a relationship.
I had built the career Great,and I had been nationally
recognized by real estate boardsand been on HGTV selling New
(06:38):
York.
I'd been all done, all theseincredible things, but I didn't
have the husband and I didn'thave the baby.
And part of the backstory is isI'm a PK, I'm a preacher's kid.
My mother was the firstAfrican-American woman ordained
in New York city for thePresbyterian church, so you know
(06:58):
I'm someone who goes to church.
There's an expectation of howyour life should be and I had to
have a really hard conversationwith her.
What I thought was going to behard.
It was actually easier than Iimagined and I I I'm not in a
place where I'm finding ahusband so that I can have a
(07:18):
family as it's supposed tohappen, supposed to in quotes
and I said I think I'm going todo this on my own and she was
supportive and so on my ownmeant that I started with
fertility treatments going toget IUI treatments, ivf
treatments.
None of them worked.
They depleted my bank account.
(07:40):
Thankfully, in real estate Ihad built up enough money to be
able to do this.
But if you look at the long-termeffect, you're like, okay, this
is not sustainable.
I can't be doing IVF treatmentsfor 15 K a pop and.
Iui treatments for 2,500 to5,000 a pop right.
It's not sustainable and it'sreally hard on your body
(08:02):
physically.
With the hormones there's theup and down of whether you're
pregnant or not taking apregnancy test and seeing the
negative.
And eventually, I just said,okay, I have to go a different
route, and adoption was notnecessarily something I
considered.
I had seen it modeled in myfamily with different family
(08:24):
members.
And then, with a particularcousin, I had a chance to hold a
little baby who changed my lifein that moment.
And I said if she can do it, Ican do it and that's what I'm
doing.
If I can do it, you can do it.
Cassandra (08:42):
Oh, what a great story.
I love that story, you know,because I know I have a lot of
listeners that want to bemarried.
I'm not sure why I mean and Isay that I'm not saying it's a
bad thing, a good thing but I'mjust saying why do you want to
get married, you know, is it tohave a family or just to have
companionship?
(09:02):
Or is it because that's what wewere told?
We were told when we finishedhigh school and had the
opportunity to go to college?
We get a job, we get a husband,we get the house with the white
picket fence, we have thechildren and all of that.
And when those expectationswhich are their expectation,
(09:24):
some of my listeners'expectations, when that doesn't
happen, they don't feel good.
I mean, emotionally, they arenot in a good place.
And I can say that for myselfbecause I was one that wanted
the family and the kids and themarriage and the picket fence.
And what happened with me is Iwas a career girl, I worked in
(09:47):
corporate, as many of mylisteners are aware, and I was a
bit bothered that, wow, I can't, I'm not having any.
I don't want to say luck, butthere was no one out there that
I felt that be comfortable inmarrying and I wanted to
(10:07):
reiterate my story with yourstory because you still had a
passion and, for those that arelistening, still have a passion.
If you've not married yet,there's still some things that
you have a heart's desire to do.
And just listen to Ayo that washer heart's desire is to have
that husband have that fence.
(10:28):
She doesn't have that, but lifegoes on.
She sounds like that.
She had some limiting beliefsthat she has overcome and also
so now I would say she is atrailblazer in open adoption.
And what could you explain?
(10:49):
I know what a trailblazer is,but a trailblazer in open
adoption.
What is open adoption?
What is that?
Ayo (10:59):
Yes, well, first I want to go back to what you said about
your lifelong dream.
So that lifelong dream that Ihad as a older person in my
forties and actually I didn'tcome to the term until I was
coaching and explaining how Igot to this place to clients and
I realized I termed this thingcalled my life non-negotiable
(11:22):
right, not just a lifelong dream.
But what is it that I'm notwilling to leave this earth
without having experienced andfor me it was motherhood.
So it's not just a dream.
It was a yearning that I haveto do this in order to feel
fulfilled, and I know that Goddidn't put me on this earth with
this great dream and urge tonot have that fulfilled.
(11:52):
So I had to go through theprocess, as you said, of
changing mindset.
Am I going to be limited bysocietal norms?
Or looking at the reality of mylife, the desires of my heart,
and say, okay, what is it thatyou can do to achieve this?
And so, 10 years later, mydaughter's now 10, her story,
our story, is amazing.
It's a miracle in itself.
(12:12):
I didn't have a lot of help innavigating the open adoption
journey period and then the openadoption journey.
So adoption has you goingthrough the path to become a
mother, through someone placingtheir child with you to raise,
and that's adoption.
Cassandra (12:34):
One thing I'm sorry to cut you off, but I have a
question Were you coachingbefore you start pursuing this
adoption or you started coachingas you were pursuing?
You realize that was something,a gift you had that could help
others, because I understand youwere in real estate.
You did a phenomenal job inreal estate.
(12:56):
You were on television and allof that.
So did the coaching start withyou pursuing the adoption, open
adoption?
Ayo (13:05):
Well, actually, the coaching actually started when I
became a certified mentor inreal estate.
So I was coaching in realestate, but not not in adoption
at all.
Cassandra (13:16):
You know when I was in it.
Ayo (13:17):
it was so very new there, I was experiencing it, I.
There was no way for me to lookback and say, oh yeah, I could
help somebody else.
Not at that point.
I was still trying to figureeverything out myself.
Um, but now, 10 years later,and looking at what I have been
able to create with the birthfamily, what I've been able to
(13:39):
establish within therelationship with my daughter,
um, I realized, oh, you do havea lot to share, and this is this
experience has not been for youto go through, to keep it to
yourself.
You've gone through this inorder to share with others who
are in the same position, havethe same desire and are either
(14:00):
considering never becoming amother because they can't do it
in the normal way, or they justneed to find the right person,
the right coach, to say yes, youcan do this, and I'm going to
show you how.
Cassandra (14:14):
Okay, okay, so you found someone that helped you.
Ayo (14:20):
No, I didn't, so everything was on your own Everything Okay
.
For the most part, yes, yes, Ihad to.
I had to figure it out and anextended amount of time because
I was operating from a recordplaying that wasn't my record,
(14:49):
that I had heard from society.
Oh the birth family is going tobe jealous of you or angry, or
they're the enemy, and so youhave that playing in your mind
and that's not necessarily thetruth.
The truth is that when birthparents are putting a child,
placing a child for adoption,they want the best for that
(15:11):
child.
They want to know that thedecision that they're making and
putting their child with you isgoing to result in their child
having the best possible lifethat they possibly could have
and that they could not givethem themselves.
So the relationship.
If you start with that, if youstart with a place of grace,
(15:33):
then you understand that there'sno need for fear or one party
against the other.
We're a team because we have agenuine desire for the well
being of that child that we havein common.
Cassandra (15:49):
So, when you were okay because I know there are
different reasons why people puttheir children up for adoption
Like, one of them indicated thatit's for the child's best
interest that they do that, andthen there's some they have to,
you know, and there are perhapssome other reasons, but when you
(16:13):
were pursuing that, was it aprerequisite for you to adopt
someone whose parents wanted toput them up for adoption because
they wanted better for them, ordid you know the reason that
you want to know what the reasonwas why a child was put up for
(16:35):
adoption?
And these are newborns, right?
You wanted to adopt a newborn,right?
Ayo (16:42):
For me, yes, that was always my dream.
I always had a dream of beingpregnant, so I wanted to know
what that felt like, and if Ididn't have that opportunity to
be pregnant, I certainly wantedthe experience of mothering a
newborn domestically, through aprivate adoption or through a
(17:09):
birth family right?
If you're talking about someone, or the child has been taken
out of the home or you knowthere's some kind of safety
concern, then that means thatthe city or state has stepped in
and that child is now probablyunder guardianship of the county
or the city.
That's a little different.
That means that child welfareis involved.
And then that also is a littlebit difficult to not impossible,
(17:35):
but it's going to take a lotmore effort to create an open
and friendly relationship withthe birth parent, because in the
situation where a child isremoved, their parental rights
are generally, generally, um,terminated, okay, and that, that
, and if you're terminatingrights that are not wanting to
(17:58):
be terminated, then that canlead to contention.
But people going to birthparents and birth mothers going
through the adoption processthey have already decided that
this is best for the child andfor them and they're not going
to protest termination of therights, which means then the
adoptive parent can take overthe parental rights and be
(18:18):
issued those rights.
Cassandra (18:20):
Good Thanks for the clarification.
So is there a like what agency?
I'm sure there are a number ofthem that you can go to when
you're ready to adopt, andwhat's the criteria that the
agency is looking for for you todo that?
Ayo (18:50):
Well, each agency has their own criteria.
You would have to go online andjust go through, look on the
internet and see which ones havewhich criteria.
I actually have a list on mywebsite that people can go to
openadoptionsuccesscom, and youcan go there and there's a link
to a download that will show youwhat the bigger agencies are
looking for.
You can also adopt through aprivate adoption.
It could be someone you know atyour church or your work and
(19:11):
they know a young woman who'swanting to place their child for
adoption.
You don't have to go through anadoption agency and you can also
obviously go abroad overseas,but that generally is you're
going to be looking at an olderchild and a lot more paperwork
and a lot more waiting.
Cassandra (19:32):
So what?
You decided to go to a certainagency, and if so, why?
Ayo (19:42):
Initially, I went to a Christian agency, but I didn't
finish at the Christian agencyand I would say that if you're
looking at an agency, don'tlimit yourself to a denomination
.
You want to choose an agencythat has good staffing, that
(20:03):
understands what you are lookingfor, that listens to you, that
doesn't impose their wishes uponyou, because we each have a
mindset Not, I shouldn't say,mindset.
We each have a way ofenvisioning ourselves as mothers
.
Right, I envisioned myself as amother who traveled all over
(20:23):
the world with my baby.
My motto was have baby willtravel, and I was going to
continue my lifestyle of travel.
So that meant that I needed achild who could keep up with me,
right, basically, physically.
So taking a child that hadphysical ailments or that was
(20:45):
neurodivergent or something likethat, wasn't going to work for
the lifestyle that.
I envisioned for myself, butthat doesn't mean that there are
single women or couples outthere who are graced by God to
be able to take on a baby thathas neurodivergency or has some
(21:07):
kind of physical ailment.
There are parents out there forevery kind of child out there.
That's the beautiful part aboutit and that's the beautiful
part of adoption, and so don'tlimit yourself that way.
Do your homework, find out ifthey are they listening to what
(21:27):
it is that you want.
Cassandra (21:28):
How much?
Ayo (21:29):
do they cost?
What's their process like?
Are you as a single woman puton the back burner, or are you
presented to birth parents in anequal measure to couples?
You know there's all of thosetype of things.
Do they give you any kind oftraining?
They give you any kind oftraining?
(21:50):
Do they offer classes?
Do you want one that's local toyou, or are you able to travel
across the country at the dropof a dime because you have to
get there?
So there are all sorts ofreasons to choose and look at a
particular agency.
Cassandra (22:01):
Right, so what you're saying is, depending on the
agency, they all some asked.
They all perhaps asked similarquestions, but some of them can
be very different, differentquestions.
Ayo (22:11):
Oh yeah, absolutely, and you want to also make sure that
you are happy with that agencybefore you give your money.
Because, I was with that agencyand another opportunity for a
child came about and I hadliterally just paid my money, my
(22:31):
down payment, the first payment, when I got the call to be
considered for another agencythat was local to me.
Cassandra (22:39):
And.
Ayo (22:39):
I called them all happy.
I was like hey, guess what Igot chosen by a birth mother, so
can you refund my money?
They're like sorry, no, I hadalready given it.
Yeah, per our rules.
So you want to be sure whichagency you're going with and I
would not.
I would say I would notrecommend going with an agency
(23:02):
until your paperwork iscompleted.
You know that means that yourhome study is done, that you
have done all your fingerprints,that you have the AOK to be
able to take a child home fromthe hospital.
I would recommend, you know,going about six months or so and
looking for yourself to see youmight be able to avoid some
(23:26):
costly payments going byyourself.
But then if going by yourselfand going that route does not
feel good to you or it's noteasy enough, then go with an
agency but just make sure thatonce you pay your money, you're
okay with losing it If a babycomes another way and not
through that agency.
Cassandra (23:46):
Yeah, and of course, cost is a factor and it can
range from what to what, basedon your research.
Ayo (23:56):
It can range from $25,000 to $60,000.
It really depends.
If you're going overseas, thereare more costs involved.
It depends on the agency, howsmall the agency is or how large
it is, how much staff they have.
Right, it's like any otherthing.
They have overhead and so theyhave to build in costs based on
(24:17):
what it means to have afunctioning agency.
So, you know women in their 40sand 50s who are professional.
Like you and I.
We generally have money savedaway or we have access to money.
We have a 401k, we havesomething, we have disposable
income, so that age groupgenerally is able to afford
(24:43):
adoption.
You will have to put money down, payments, and they can break
it up.
You're not paying the $60,000cost or $25,000 cost all at once
.
It's by, you know,incrementally.
But you also get a tax credit.
So I forget the amount for thisyear, I want to say 14,000, but
(25:04):
whatever the, you can easilysearch the number.
Just go online and find outwhat the adoption tax credit is
for 2024.
And it hasn't really changedover the last couple of years,
but that's a huge benefit, right?
If you're thinking about, youknow, a $35,000 fee from an
agency knocking $14,000 off.
(25:26):
You're not getting anything incash, but you're getting it off
of your taxes and you know thereare many scholarships out there
.
There are agencies and some ofthe agencies have their own
scholarship programs.
There are foundations out therethat give money to people who
are looking to adopt.
Yeah, and you can docrowdfunding if you wanted to.
(25:49):
You know, get your family andfriends involved in your dream
of motherhood.
So it shouldn't, don't letmoney be the factor that stops
you either.
Cassandra (25:58):
Okay, okay, wow.
That's some great, greatinformation.
You talked about a holisticapproach to adoption, right?
Tell us about that holisticapproach.
Ayo (26:17):
So I think of the adoption process as an ongoing journey.
It's not just one thing right,it's a series of minor miracles
that leads up to a major miracle, and so I like to take care of
my clients mentally Like whereare you?
(26:37):
Is this something that youreally feel like you are called
to?
Is this something that you wantor that you feel there's an
expectation from family, or viceversa?
So, dealing with mindset, whatI'm working with with one client
who's just starting theiradoption journey, and a client
that's already doing theirpaperwork and a client that is
(27:00):
bringing baby home and a clientthat's had a baby home for a
year is completely different,but it all involves remembering
to honor what it is that youwant for your life.
What is your truth?
How is it that you would wantsomeone to treat and interact
with you?
(27:21):
So, there's no.
When I talk about working withbirth families, they're not the
enemy.
They're not the enemy.
When I say open adoption, Imean not only are you having a
conversation or in conversationwith them.
It could be through a socialworker, through the agency.
Mine happens to be directcontact.
(27:41):
And we decided that in thehospital it's all individualized
, but it also means open in thatin your, within your home, your
child understands how yourfamily came to be, because of
how they were brought into yourlife.
There's no secrets, there's nofear.
We don't operate in fear.
And holistically, if we canerase fear from the whole
(28:06):
process.
you breathe, and I say that witha lot of looking back, because
I when I say, cassandra, I hadmy hands on the wheel trying to
direct traffic and make thisprocess go faster because, as a
single woman, I was told, yeah,you can adopt, but it's going to
take you about a year and ahalf before you find a birth
(28:26):
parent that's going to be giveto, to have you be their child's
parent, because you're single.
That turned out not to be true.
Again, we can't listen to whateveryone tells us, right,
because what God has for us isfor us and his timing is beyond
anything that man can ever canconstruct.
So we can't go with whatnormally happens, because every
(28:51):
single adoption story isslightly different in some way.
I mean, there's no two waysthat it all happened right.
And so holistically.
We deal with the whole person,the whole you.
Making sure you're confident inwho you are, confident in your
decisions, confident in yourjudgment, confident in includes
(29:13):
changing how you are nowemployed, because you now want
to be home with your childinstead of being away nine to
(29:33):
five and having a babysitter.
Like you didn't go through allof that to become a mother, to
then spend all these hoursoutside of the house.
So I find a lot of women thendecide to become entrepreneurs
or work from home so they canstill have that experience of
being able to be a full-time mom.
Cassandra (29:52):
What do you think?
What is the benefit for thebirth mother, from your opinion,
to know where?
I know there are advantages anddisadvantages for the birth
mother to know where their childis, because I know people who
have adopted someone and theydidn't want the mother to know
(30:16):
because they thought when thechild got older they want to go
see their mom, they want to findtheir mother or whatever.
Right, so what?
I guess I said that thebenefits or advantages maybe, or
disadvantages, because itsounds like for you what you
wanted was to know the birthmother.
You want to be involved in that.
(30:37):
Were you hesitant or did youwant to know?
Did you?
You wanted your child to knowthe birth mother?
Uh huh, and so I Right, so I'ma very inquisitive person.
Ayo (30:48):
Did you want to know?
Did you?
You wanted your child to knowthe birth mother, right?
So I'm a very inquisitiveperson.
I probably could have been aprivate detector.
Like I have questions.
That's why I'm good withinterviews.
I have questions.
I want to.
I want to know what the answeris Right.
And so, like all of us, when wedon't have the answer, answer
(31:09):
is Right.
And so, like all of us, when wedon't have the answer, usually
the worst thing that can happenis that we create the answer in
our head and the answer isprobably so far away from the
truth that it either stops us inour place from moving forward
or we're we're working off ofwrong assumption.
So I didn't want to do that.
I don't like to to live my lifethat way.
(31:29):
I like to have direct talkswith people, right and I.
Sometimes it's very difficult,right?
It's not easy to have a heartto heart.
So, yes, I definitely wanted toknow who she was.
I did not have that privilegein the pregnancy.
It wasn't until the day she wasgiving birth that I met her and
(31:51):
we connected in the deliveryroom and that was where the open
adoption, the openness, cameabout, because we said, oh,
you're human, I'm human, all wedo, all we want, is for the best
for this child.
Do you want to keep in touch?
Okay, and it's been respectful.
It hasn't been like I wantpictures, give me pictures.
(32:13):
Who's the?
No, none of that.
It's very respectful on theirside.
I'm very easily giving thempictures to say, hey, you
probably want to see thispicture, you know and and be
able to say this is your child.
Imagine if you placed a childup for adoption and you never
(32:36):
saw them again, and perhaps younever even saw them when you
when you birth them.
What kind of stories are youcreating in your head?
You're you in this place of, Iwonder, I wonder is this child
walking past me, my daughter ormy son?
What would she look like now?
(32:56):
That's wasted energy.
When you can easily have accessto that, when I can say, hey,
here's her first birthday,here's this, here's that.
By the way, who in your familyis tall?
Um, can you, would you mindshowing me what the rest of your
family looks like?
And these are things that happenover time.
But it's just like a, a basicfriendship, right?
(33:21):
We're not asking you to be bestbuds.
If you become best buds overtime, amazing but it's about
having a respectful relationshipwith the family.
That graced you with the thingthat you said you wanted most
and you asked God for it and hedelivered.
So that means that I can only,and I should only, consider my
(33:45):
interaction with her with graceand love, as long as there's no
reason for me to put separation.
If there's a reason for me to befearful about my child's
well-being, okay, that's a wholedifferent story.
But that's not the reality, andthat's not the reality for most
people, in fact.
People, birth parents, birthmothers who do not see their
(34:08):
children, who do not say goodbyein the hospital, are the ones
who will cancel the adoption.
So why would you not I let mydaughter's birth mother spend
time with her at the hospital,say goodbye, mourn her.
(34:28):
There's joy on one side in myroom, right.
Everybody's like, oh my gosh,we're so happy for you, and then
you have a mourning.
It's almost like a death rightyou have to appreciate the grief
that's going on on the otherside.
That's going on on the otherside, and so how much better is
(34:54):
it that you do not have adoption?
That is being reversed becausethey have the answers, they have
the relationship.
And everyone I talk to says it'sthe best thing.
It makes their lives on bothsides so much better.
And imagine I'm raising a childwho doesn't have to wonder,
well, why, why wasn't I kept?
(35:16):
And for people say she'll goback to her mother.
No, that's not her mother.
I'm her mother, that's herbirth mother, that's her birth
parent, the person who broughther into the world.
But she doesn't know her as amother.
I'm the mother.
So why would she, why would Ihave a fear that she'd want to,
(35:36):
you know, leave my home to go toher?
Does she have a desire to getto know her?
Absolutely, and that's normal.
Cassandra (35:43):
So that's what we work with and that's normal.
So that's what we work with,wow, wow.
And your coaching definitelysupports that whole thing,
because you've probably seen itall as it relates to that.
And, as I indicated, I do knowpeople who have adopted and as
they get what they say, whenthey become teenagers they say
(36:06):
they start smelling themselvesand they'll say well, I'll go
find my mother.
You know, it's just part of,you know, I guess, adolescence
or whatever Right, so I meanthere are people who will say
that yeah, yeah, but there areother kids who you know, it's
not even a thought to them.
Ayo (36:25):
OK.
Cassandra (36:27):
OK, ok, ok, great, could, ok.
So I was going to ask you aboutliving on your terms.
So that journey you went on,that transformative journey that
you went on, that that was onyour terms.
Right, you were like I stillwant to work, you travel, you
(36:49):
indicated when you had her andum, and she's how old now Nine?
Ayo (36:55):
Yeah, she'll be, she'll be 10.
And before her second birthdayand before the pandemic happened
, we had visited five countries.
Um, I brought her with meeverywhere you know.
Cassandra (37:06):
it was like let's go Wow, okay, that's that's.
That's a great story.
That's awesome.
Did you have being single?
Was that a barrier?
Initially because the agenciesthink that the child should have
(37:28):
a mother and a dad.
Like, what was your experiencewith that?
I think it's more.
Ayo (37:36):
I don't think it's necessarily.
The agencies think that thechild should have a mother and a
dad that the birth parents orthe birth mother more than
likely will want a double, youknow, a husband and wife for
their child, as opposed to asingle family household.
But a lot of birth mothers whoare, you know, in the adoption
(37:58):
process or considering adoptioncome from single family homes,
so it's not unusual for them togo.
This makes sense to me.
This having her, a singlemother, raise a child makes
sense.
It's okay.
And, you know, in my case thebirth mother said she's single
but she won't be for long andforever.
And it's true.
I mean, I haven't found myhusband yet, but I have every
(38:21):
desire and intention to find himand I know at the right time it
will happen.
Cassandra (38:28):
Yeah, exactly, exactly Wow.
Ayo (38:33):
Talk about Sandra.
Oh, sorry, I was going to say Iactually have a client who is
still dating and she has a newbaby that she just adopted.
So if you are on that track ofdating, you don't have to stop
it as long as you have a greatsupport system you can still go
ahead and date because you stillhave that dream of finding a
(38:55):
husband, of being a wife, ofhaving your child have a father.
So you can't sit home for therest of your life expecting to
find a man.
If that is your desire, youhave to get out, you have to
still date, you still have tohave a life.
Cassandra (39:12):
Right, I love yourself.
I think it's theself-reflection questionnaire
you know for individuals who arethinking so you will provide
that information for them andthen you will talk through it
because you want to make surethat the rationale behind
wanting to adopt is not selfishRight.
Ayo (39:35):
Well, it's not necessarily selfish.
It's more that you know what itis that you want.
Because you want to create anadoption plan I, like I've been
using the term adoption doularight, if you are a woman who's
pregnant and you want to set abirth plan about how you're
going to deliver and all of that, you work with someone, a doula
(39:57):
, to record that.
The same thing with me, right?
I want you to say do you want aboy?
Do you want a girl?
Does it matter?
Do they, um, can, can they haveany kind of physical ailments?
Do you want a black child, awhite child, a mixed child?
This, I want you to be so clear, because in being clear, you
(40:17):
will also call into God, willmake it very happen that you
will find the child that you arevery clear about, and so you
don't have to worry that whenpresented by the agency with
another child that's outside ofwhat you said you can go back
and say, hmm, I did say this,but does this really pertain to
(40:41):
me right now?
Would I be okay with a girl,even though I said I wanted a
boy, you know.
So it's a conversation piece,so it's not about selfishness.
It's more about being selfishfor yourself and not being
pulled here and there by otherpeople's opinion about how you
(41:01):
should live your life, based onyour marital status, if you want
to have a child.
Cassandra (41:09):
Right, okay, yeah, because I do remember I had a
I'm not saying any names, but anindividual who wanted to adopt
and the parents were against itbecause she was single.
So therefore, because herparents were against it, she
never did, but by the grace ofGod she got married and he had
(41:35):
children.
So that helped in a great way.
And then after that, then hehad a child, so then she had a
baby, a grandchild baby, so itall it all worked out, yeah.
Ayo (41:49):
Well, there's a.
I will say that she stilldidn't get the child that she
wanted but, yes, it's you knowyou, your spouse's kids are
yours, but you still wanted thatlittle baby of yours that you
couldn't say.
I raised from from the cradleand I will say that it is not
(42:09):
fair for other people in thefamily, including parents, to
impose upon their adult childrenwhat it is that they want for
their child how to live theirlife when they've already had
the chance to live their ownlife.
And when they are gone, whodoes your child have, literally,
I mean?
(42:32):
I was raised in a single familyhousehold.
My dad passed away 10 yearsbefore my daughter came along
and then my mom passed away 10months before my daughter came
to be, before my daughter cameto be, came to, was born.
So if I had listened if that'snot the case, right, neither
(42:57):
said anything about my situation.
But if that had been the case,where am I when I don't have a
mother, a father, brothers orsisters?
And but I have this huge desire?
But because I felt it was moreimportant to live up to their
expectations of me rather thanmy desire for my own happiness,
what will make me happy?
I'm left holding an empty bag?
No, no, they live their life.
(43:19):
You say thank you so very much.
I appreciate and respect youropinion, but I have to do what's
in my heart and I pray that youwill come around and support me
when I bring your grandchildhome.
Well, said well said, right,right, that's it, yeah, and I'm
(43:39):
not going to say that.
Cassandra (43:40):
Right, and that's why I was talking about people are
stuck.
They're stuck because of whatsomebody else wants them to do,
not being their true self andnot living on their terms, and
it's not a bad thing.
It's what you want.
It's not what other people want, but yet you can share that
with respect to the parent orwhomever thinks that it's not a
(44:01):
great idea, and for them tostate it, as you did and I think
that was well said and I thinkit definitely needed to be said
on on is your way, in your way,because that's one way you get
in your way by doing and wantingto do to please other people.
So thanks so much for sayingthat.
Ayo (44:22):
And you said something earlier about, you know, being a
career woman.
We know that, statistically,people who have higher degrees
tend to not have as manychildren and they have them
later.
Now add a layer of black womenor minority women.
Right, there are lesscounterparts on that same
educational level.
(44:43):
There's the mismatch of numbershappens right.
So you have to then decide okay,how am I going to proceed
forward?
And we then couple all of thatwith the cultural normalities of
in our culture, black culture,you are told to be respectful of
(45:06):
your elders, you listen to whatthey say, you speak when you're
spoken to, only and not any.
And all those layers makesthere a record playing in the
background that keeps us fromliving our authentic lives.
And so at some point we have tobreak that record.
(45:27):
We have to say I have to goagainst the norm and live
according to what God has placedin my heart.
And I'm a reasonable woman, I'ma smart woman, I'm an educated
woman, I know a few things aboutlife, so I know what's best for
me and trust that.
Cassandra (45:48):
Exactly, exactly, well said, ayo, I love that.
So call to action Because, as Iindicated, even if my listeners
have this desire to think whatyou're talking about is
something that they alwayswanted but didn't because of
(46:10):
those limiting, those roadblocksthat you just talked about, um,
I wanted you to, um, tell themhow to get to your what I your
guided self-reflectionquestionnaire In this way.
It'll help them to understandwhat they truly want and how to
(46:32):
prepare and I am challengingthose who are have this desire
or this urge, or somethingyou've always wanted to make a
move and do that call to actionplan with the questionnaire.
So, again, share with them, mylisteners, how can they get to
(46:54):
that questionnaire and what theycan expect after they complete
it.
Ayo (47:02):
So there are no right or wrong answers to the
questionnaire.
It's really for us to one, foryou to have a conversation with
yourself, write it down and thenwe'll have a conversation, and
you can find that questionnaireand other resources regarding
adoption on my website calledopenadoptionsuccesscom.
(47:25):
You can also find me throughadoptionduelacom It'll go
straight there.
I'm working on other resources.
I'm almost finished with ablueprint the single woman's
blueprint for adopting, andthat'll take them through a
webinar and then there'll be alonger course, a four-week
course.
So stay in touch with me.
(47:47):
New things are developing allthe time.
I have group coaching.
I have a Facebook group alsothat they can find.
I'm easily found on socialmedia and I'm excited to be able
to work with any woman and anycouple actually, couples are
coming now too, who are have aheart to have a child and they
(48:10):
just need to know how tonavigate that path to to
adoption and then to establish arelationship with the birth
mother or birth family thatleads to openness and and a
child who will feel very lovedfrom both sides.
Cassandra (48:29):
So listeners take this as a confirmation of
something that you perhaps beenthinking Maybe you're not able
to have you to be the birthmother, but you can still be the
mother, the birth mother, butyou can still be the mother.
(48:50):
So I just encourage you and Iwant to thank Ayo for her time.
This has opened up my eyes.
This is something that I'm notfamiliar with at all, but,
thanks to Ms Haynes, she'sopened my eyes and increased my
understanding.
Ms Haynes, she's opened my eyesand increased my understanding
(49:12):
and as I come across individualswhich I'm certain that I will I
will certainly refer them toyou, ayo, and I just want to
thank you for being the person,the doula, the advocate,
something unique, something I'venot heard of before, advocate
something unique, something I'venot heard of before, and I know
from this, because my listenersare going to share this.
It's going to be on all podcastplatforms and I ask if you'd
(49:37):
like this podcast or love thepodcast, please click subscribe
to it and also feel free toshare it with anybody that you
know.
This will be a blessing to.
So, again, I could talk.
I have more questions becauseI'm a curious person, but we can
(49:59):
go on and on, but my listeners,they know how to get in touch
with you and I just want tothank you very, very much for
what you're offering the world.
God bless you.
Bye, for now.
Ayo (50:11):
Thank you so much.
Cassandra (50:12):
Yeah, and my listeners.
I say to you bye for now aswell, God bless.
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