October 11, 2021 • 31 mins
When it comes to payments, it’s no secret that digital is dominating the ecosystem. This, we know. But what about Americans that are either unbanked or underbanked… those that don’t have access to the technology or have the resources required to take advantage of the perks digital disruption provides?
In today’s podcast, Paysafecash VP of Strategic Business Development Jan Marc Kuelper and RentMoola’s Chief Product Officer Jean-Francois Brissot come together to speak about the current landscape of the underbanked demographic and the strides they are proactively making to support this population.
The ultimate goal? To make the life of the cash consumer as easy as possible.
A creative thinker with 25 years of thinking about all things Fintech, Jean-Francois Brissot is the Chief Product Officer for RentMoola. RentMoola simplifies property payments into one efficient, secure platform. Jean-Francois oversees product innovation, engineering and customer success.
Also, a big player in the Fintech space and my other guest on this podcast, Jan Marc Kuelper oversees the eCash business (both Paysafecard and Paysafecash) in the United States, with the responsibility of pursuing strategic partnerships to accelerate international expansion.
Together, they provide some much-needed insight into our lingering dependency on cash, the financial challenges caused by the global pandemic and the impact this has on some of their target verticals (specifically, the rental market).
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the leaders in payments podcast,
where we talk to C-level leadersfrom across the payments
landscape, we'll be discussingthe products and services that
impact the payment space today,as well as trends and
predictions for the future ofpayments.
We will also hear stories fromour guests about their journeys
to the top.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
This is episode 124, and is our second episode in our
special series on financialinclusion.
When it comes to payments, it'sno secret that digital is
dominating that ecosystem.
This we know, but what aboutAmericans that are either
unbanked or underbanked, thosethat don't have access to the
technology or have the resourcesrequired to take advantage of
(00:39):
the perks digital disruptionprovides and today's podcast,
Paysafe Cassius VP of strategicbusiness development, Yon, mark
helper, and rent Mulas chiefproduct officer John friends'
Whopper said come together tospeak about the current
landscape of the under-bankeddemographic and the strides they
are proactively making tosupport this population.
(01:01):
The ultimate goal to make thelife of the cash consumer as
easy as possible, a creativethinker with 25 years of
thinking about all thingsFinTech Jean-Francois or set is
the chief product officer ofrent Moolah rent Mulla
simplifies property paymentsinto one efficient secure
platform.
(01:22):
Jean-Francois oversees, productinnovation, engineering and
customer success.
Also a big player in the FinTechspace.
And my other guests on thispodcast, Yanmar helper oversees
the E cash business, bothPaysafe card and Paysafe cash in
the United States with theresponsibility of pursuing
strategic partnerships toaccelerate international
(01:43):
expansion together, they providesome much needed insight into
our lingering dependency oncash.
The financial challenges causedby the global pandemic and the
impact this has on some of theirtarget verticals, specifically
the rental market.
We've got a great episode today,so let's jump right in
Speaker 3 (02:05):
[inaudible].
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Hi, John mark, and John Francois.
Thank you so much for being onthe show today.
This is the leaders in paymentspodcast, and I'm your host, Greg
Meyers.
We've got a great episode today,focused on financial inclusion.
So thank you both so much forbeing on the show today.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
It's really a pleasure to sharethe stage with you and Jean-Marc
today.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Okay, well, let's just dive into the questions,
Yon mark, to set the scene.
Can you provide us with anoverview of how significant of
an issue financial collusion isin the United States and maybe
in terms of sheer numbers ofunder-banked and un-banked
Americans?
Speaker 5 (02:42):
Yes, absolutely.
If we talk about financialinclusion, we're talking about
twenty-five percent or in otherwords, one out of four Americans
who do not either have a bankaccount or only have very
limited exit to online financialservices.
If we talk for example abouthouseholds, it's more than 35
(03:03):
million households in the us,which are being either under or
unbanked, this alone is a prettylarge number of people who are
being financially excluded inthe U S right now.
But if you deep a little bitdeeper and talk about, for
example, ethnic minorities,disproportionality is even
higher.
(03:23):
So on average, 42% of theAmericans of an ethnic minority
are either under or unbanked.
And to give you some concreteexamples of cities or counties,
I just looked up a few counties.
So one is a consequence Starrcounty in Texas, where we have
more than 60% of the populationbeing under unbanked.
(03:47):
But even if you go into thelargest cities, for example, to
New York and to the Bronx, weare still talking about 48% on
Miami date, 25% of the peoplewho are living there are either
on a banked or unbanked.
So in our meaning, this is ahuge challenge for the rental
market.
The question is how can thesepeople pay their rent?
(04:10):
What kind of services on themarket to simplify rent
payments, and fact is that cashor checks that the handling of
this is very time time-consumingrisky for both for the renters
as well as for the landlords.
So there's clearly a need forinnovative solutions to solve
this kind of challenge.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So those are some pretty astounding numbers when
you think about it, percentagesand pure numbers.
So in addition to that question,I wanted to have you address the
COVID-19 situation and has thissituation and issue of financial
inclusion or financial exclusiongotten actually worse with these
(04:52):
low income consumers.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Yes, for sure.
We do see basically two maintopics on the one side, the
health issue, and on the otherside, the number of cash
customers or people who need topay in cash.
So on the one hand side, thehealth issue cash payments have
become extremely risky,independent.
They are complicated and arestill a burden to do for many
(05:17):
people talking about the cashaspect of this because of COVID
more and more tenants live frompaycheck to paycheck at the
moment, going back to somethinglike a year from today, the
unemployment rate skyrocketed inearly 2020 from four to 14%.
Now it's back at 5.2%, but thisshows that over the last year,
(05:39):
basically there are many, manypeople who live from paycheck to
paycheck or really had seriouschallenges and pay their rent.
And additionally, many of theso-called gig economy workers
who are being paid veryirregularly and very often in
cash.
So meaning basically, sometimespeople do have bank accounts,
(06:01):
but they do not have availablefunds in the bank account to pay
their rent.
And in many, many cases, cash isbasically the ultimate and last
means of payment for these kindsof people.
In other words, the challengesof following on the one hand
side, you have chaplains whowant or need to pay in cash, and
then you have property managersor landlords who don't want to
(06:24):
handle cash anymore because it'srisky, risky for their health
and so on and so forth.
Then I give you an example.
I personally, I lived in NewYork a couple of years ago, and
what I did is I paid my propertymanager every month with a
check.
So he was sitting in thebasement of the building and
every single month I visited himin the basement and paid in
(06:46):
cash.
And I guess I was one of thelucky ones because other people
need to go to a single paymentlocation across town queue up
between 10:00 AM and noon.
These people are being put onrisk because they are forced to
go there to queue up, to wait inline with other people,
especially in the pandemic.
So again, there is a need forpayment solutions in the market
(07:08):
that address exactly these kindsof challenges and have these
people towards financialinclusion last but not least.
Another point is the so-calledstimulus check.
People have been paid and the US in cash or with this checks.
And again, this is a huge numberof additional people who
basically, who are forced to paytheir bills and rents and so on
(07:30):
and cash.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Great.
Well, thank you for that.
So John Francoise, let's turn toyou.
Let's zoom in on the rentalspace that your platform rent
Moolah serves.
How do those issues that werejust described for the unbanked
and underbanked in Americans?
How does that impact theirpayment of rent?
Like how serious of an issue isit for them when making these
monthly payments?
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Well, obviously it's a very serious issue.
First of all, rent Moolah is oneof the leading platform for
collecting rent.
And we cover us and Canadamarkets for rents that represent
one of the largest, if not thelargest recurring payments and
can represent up to 50% of thetenant household income in the U
S all platform, any paymentplatform are reconsidered as
(08:15):
mission critical for alternate,for paying their rent on time.
And on time is critical righthere and for the landlord to
collect their revenue.
So if you look at the 25% of theunbanked or underbanked
population versus 48 million ofrenters in this population,
certainly represent median oftenants who are unbanked and
(08:37):
underbanked.
And these people, while theystill need to put a roof over
their head, they need to paytheir rent on time, like, like,
and renters, and just, we callwhat Jean-Marc was saying.
COVID has made it worse for afew reasons.
Obviously, as soon as the COVIDstarted lots of landlords, if
(08:58):
not all the landlords and lastproperty manager, or they had to
shut up.
So they were no longer offeringthe possibility for tenants to
just show up in the office andpay their rent in cash.
That's has been a real criticalissue.
In addition to the trend, thedigital or digitization trends
with payment that has reaccelerated with the COVID and
(09:23):
Joseph appointees, as Yanmarpointed out, we at 75% of the us
population who lives frompaycheck to paycheck, and for
them one day matters, meaningthat a large part of the
population we cannot afford tosend money ahead of time to
ensure that if you have moneyorder, for example, to ensure
(09:43):
that the payment will arrive ontime, they have rehab to make
the payment at the last minutewhen they cash their check, or
when they receive the payment.
This is where it's very criticalfor them to show consistency and
visibility on their payment.
And it is important to have asolution with a payment platform
(10:03):
that would consolidate all typeof payment that would offer that
visibility to the landlord thatthe tenant is paying.
Even if it's in cash, in aconsistent and predicted.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Are there any other challenges that you feel the
unbanked or underbanked havewhen they need to pay their
rent?
Well,
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Gritty is definitely one of the challenge for the
tenant to have to carry somecash and go to a place as though
it's a dicey to the landlordplace.
And that can only be at certaintime during the day when the
office is open and they have todo their job most of the time
during the same hours, and alsofor the landlord to carry money
(10:45):
for the rent that they collect.
So secret is definitely achallenge that has to be
addressed as,
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So y'all mark back to you.
We hear a lot about the death ofcash and obviously the dominance
of digital payments.
Do you feel like cash is stillking for the un-banked and
under-banked Americans,including when they pay their
rent?
Speaker 5 (11:06):
I would call this kind of a payment dilemma, which
is rising in the U S on the onehand side, you have great
innovations, new digital paymentoptions, new technologies, and
everything to simplify payments.
But on the other hand, you havethis massive challenge.
What we just discussed for theundone underbanked.
(11:26):
Their biggest problem is not tomake a payment as convenient as
possible to make it even withoutany interaction.
That biggest problem is how canI pay my daily bills, my rent,
and how can I do it efficientlyand most important safely.
So we need to be extremelycareful not to forget these
(11:47):
kinds of people.
When we talk about digitalpayments, I would even go one
step further and say, we need tobe careful not to discriminate
them because in the end, again,these are the 25% who have a
massive, massive problem.
They need to have new ways to,to simplify the payment needs
(12:07):
based on their abilities, whatthey can do.
And to be honest, it's not onlyabout the underbanked in the U S
it's still the 31% of alltransactions in the U S that are
still in cash.
So to give another example ofthe importance of this topic,
this topic is also addressed onthe political level where the
(12:28):
discussion is about keeping cashas a mandatory payment option
for offline businesses.
So I'm talking here about thepayment choice act, which is
actually done by both artists,that cities, and there are
states basically, which by lawfor bit to abandon cash in
stores and putting all thistogether or putting a long story
(12:50):
short for sure cash is and willcontinue to be a very, very
important payment method in theU S the only question for the
rental market is, is there asolution to solve this payment
dilemma?
And in my mind that two steps,so on the first step is
basically, are there anyofferings in the market that
allow payments in cash?
(13:11):
So in other words, can tenantsuse cash, pay their rent an easy
and convenient way?
Is it possible that cash will beautomatically converted into
electronic cash?
Because the landlords want tosee electronic cash and want to
have the rent automatic B'sbeing settled into that bank at
cons.
In other words, are there anyother solutions which are either
(13:34):
then checks money orders, cashpayments itself?
And then the second step isbasically how can you combine
these cash or cash payments withthe newest trends and audit to
give the tenants a possibilityto make even IE cash payments as
convenient as possible?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I think that's a great segue into the next
question.
Obviously, your companies paysafe cash product is an easy
cash or online cash solution.
So can you tell us more aboutthat in a second part of the
question is, can you tell usabout the value of promoting
financial inclusion in both theU S for consumers and merchants?
Speaker 5 (14:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
Knowing basically the challengesfor the banks in the U S we
developed a solution to solveexactly the problems we just
discussed before and to drivefinancial inclusion.
Not every one has basically thetechnical equipment to do
electronic payments.
So therefore solutions should beas easy and straightforward as
(14:35):
possible, and should also beaccessible to people who don't
have a smartphone, a computer,and so on.
And therefore, basically wedeveloped a product called pace
of cash by SF cash is extremelysimple from the use case, under
case of rent Moola, you simplylock into your payment portal
from rent Mueller.
You say, Hey, I want to pay withcash.
(14:57):
You click on Paysafe cash, andthen a barcode will be
generated.
And you simply take this barcode to any one of our more than
65,000 point of sales in the U Slike seven 11, CVS dollar
general and so on.
And you simply show the barcodethere and say, I want to make a
cash payment at this conveniencestores.
(15:19):
The backup will be skinned.
You pay in cash, and then thetransaction is completed.
In other words, we get informedin real time about the payment.
We will inform rent Mueller orMueller can inform the property
manager that the payment hasbeen made.
So it's basically as easy it'stheirs.
And what we say, it's basicallya way for the landlord to accept
(15:40):
cash without the hassle tohandle cash.
So pace of cash is not acompetition to any other payment
methods like credit or debitcards is simply an addition to
give a completely differenttarget group, the possibility to
make electronic payments again,the cash customers,
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Hey, everyone.
This is your host, Greg Myers.
And as many of you already know,October is financial inclusion
month.
And we're going to be talkingabout all of the products,
services, and ways that thepayments and FinTech industry
helps support the under-bankedand unbanked a special thanks to
our title sponsors, the clearinghouse and Paysafe cash, as well
as our principal sponsor instantfinancial.
(16:25):
Now, back to the show, Startingto use Jean-Francois your
platform added Paysafe cash asan easy cash payment method for
rental payments earlier thisyear.
So from your perspective, canyou explain the benefits of cash
to first the renters?
(16:46):
So the un-banked andunder-banked that we've been
talking about.
And then secondly, the value ofit to the landlords or the
property owners
Speaker 4 (16:55):
At Franklin, our vision and our mission is to
help people pay their rent.
We cannot leave anyone behind.
So we are dealing with a veryloud diversity of tenants,
whether it's in term of cultureor generation tech savviness,
and we really endeavor to allowalternatives to make a payment
with their preferred payment,and definitely cash is the
(17:18):
solution for Southern part ofthe population.
Whereas there is the populationwe mentioned for the under back
on bank, but also some people,even if they have bank account,
this still prefer to makepayment in cash.
So cash is really the solutionthat offer the flexibility for
all these people to make thepayment.
They have the flexibility interm of location, because as
(17:42):
Matt mentioned, there are 65,000different places or point of
sales in the us where they canmake a payment, the flexible of
timing.
They can make the paymentsoutside of their working hour of
during the weekend, where it'sreally convenient for them, the
flexibility to make the paymentwhen they can make the payment,
meaning when they have receivedtheir salary.
(18:02):
It also offer the visibility forthe landlord because as you and
Matt mentioned, as soon as thepayment is done at the point of
sales, we know, and we caninform the landlord, the
landlord doesn't need to wait tosee the payment on their bank
account immediately.
Even first, they see if alandlord has requested a
(18:23):
backward, which is the firstaction in the workflow, then
they can see when the paymenthas been done.
And finally, obviously they willsee when they have received and
being able to make payment ontime and receiving payment on
time is critical for the tenantsso that they don't incur any
late fee, but the propertymanager or the landlord, they
have an obligation on theirside.
(18:44):
They have financial obligationon their site as well.
They have to pay expenses, theyhave to pay mortgages and they
need to have the visibility onwhen the payment, in addition to
the security that we talk aboutbefore that, uh, it provides
where people no longer, at leastfor their lender, they not only
have to carry a pretty largeamount of cash, but as well for
(19:07):
the tenant because of theflexibility to make the payment
whenever and wherever they want.
And also believe that despitethe digitization trends and the
acceleration during the COVID inreality, the us has a long way
from a cashless society and precash has a long life ahead as
well.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah.
As a host of a show whointerviews, payments companies,
we've been talking about thisdigital dominance and cash going
away.
And the other one that we talkabout are the writing of checks.
That's going to go away.
I don't know, maybe I'm anaysayer, but I think that cash
and check writing as much as wemay want it to go away.
It's still going to be aroundfor a long, long time.
(19:47):
So Jamar back to you, if he cashsolve certain problems for the
un-banked and under-banked inrelation to rent payments, what
challenges remain for both therenter and the landlord or
property management from theirperspective.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
So I think we just talked about challenges from the
customer perspective, but cashin general is also solving
problem for the landlord or theproperty manager in general,
talking about the increase ofefficiency due to automatic
electronic payments, or ingeneral, that there is no cost
for cash handling anymore.
No need to keep a physicaloffice open.
(20:23):
What SWAT just said thatbasically they're these kinds of
offices from the propertymanager were closed due to
COVID.
So we can basically massivelyreduce, or each cash can
massively reduce the operationalcosts on this side as well.
Also, one extremely importantpoint about EKG in general, and
the characteristic of each cashis at the second, you are doing
(20:45):
a payment at a convenience storeand pay for your barcode.
These funds are guaranteed.
So by definition, they are nochargebacks possible in contrast
to other means of payments.
This also gives the propertymanager or the landlord an
additional level of security,because again, we are talking
about cash payments, which arevery often done on the very,
(21:08):
very last day.
And then if you have on topchargeback risk, then this could
be an issue.
And cash is basically alsosolving this kind of risk.
So in short, besides all thetopics we discussed from an
customer perspective or thelandlords, there are increases
of efficiency, less cost on ouroperational side.
(21:30):
And these kinds of payments arealso safe compared to other
payments.
When we talk about chargebacks,
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Okay, John Francois, anything you'd like to add to
that?
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Yeah.
We talk about the payment makingthe payment for the rent, but
there isn't as a challenge forthis population as well is
supposed to be able to beapproved by your landlord or
property manager.
This is the whole process of thetenant screening, and we have
the old fashioned credit scorebackground shake it's still
happening, but there is a trainnow for the landlord that they
(22:01):
found to be more reliable is thebank account analysis.
It's really being able to lookat the tenant bank accounts or
asking when the tenant willsubmit an application for
property, or you need to linktheir bank account so that we
can put information onhistorical information.
And obviously this is notpossible for people who are
paying in cash and cash could becertainly one of those potential
(22:26):
solution for that, because thereis traceability.
And when the payment is done onthe platform like rent Mueller,
we have the history of all thecash payment, and we can
retrieve all this history anduse that, or the tenant can use
it when they apply for the unitand demonstrate that they have
been able to pay their rent in aconsistent manner, even if it's
(22:48):
with cash.
So I think IE cash and thetransparency and traceability
will also super the under-bankedpopulation to have better access
to rain.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
So during the application process, the
landlord could see if they'veused any cash to pay rent maybe
to another landlord.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Yes, exactly.
Okay.
We will start with thisinformation on our platform.
So we are able to pull thishistory irrespective of the
payment.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Okay.
I'm sure that's very valuable tothe landlord to be able to do
that.
Cause I was sort of thinking aswe were talking, is that a
challenge?
And obviously you guys haveaddressed that.
So we've talked about financialinclusion in the rental space
and how it can be addressedtoday and some of the
challenges, but this question isfor both of you, but beyond
mark, we'll start with you.
(23:36):
What about the future?
Do you think that a sizeableamount of these un-banked and
under-banked will be assimilatedinto digital payments mainstream
over the next few years?
I mean, that's sort of the firstpart of the question.
And then the second part is whatwill the future be for rental
payments via online methods likerent Moola or even in person?
Speaker 5 (23:56):
I think it's always the customer and their needs
need to stay in focus,especially at the one who has
been forgotten by the otherindustries who digitalized,
without thinking of cash or linecustomers, meaning we need to
know what exactly are theproblems or the cash customers.
And then basically we need tobuild solutions which are
(24:17):
exactly addressing these kindsof needs or the customer
segments.
So I'm talking on the one handside on the really high
technical gen Z generation, butalso on the other hand to
elderly people who perhaps whodon't have a smartphone or a
computer, what kind of servicescan we offer them in order to
pay in cash?
(24:39):
It's not only about thequestion, is it cash or is it
credit card or whatsoever?
It's also a question.
How can you bring basically eachcash to the different target
group, the highly technical onesto the ones who don't have
access to any technologies.
And then obviously the secondquestion is how can you develop
solutions from people who havethe fixed salary, the fixed
(25:02):
income to people who arebasically paid based on the
hours they're working andperhaps also in the gig economy
also paying them cash.
And I think if you are able todesign new products around
exactly these skills, and if youcan answer exactly these kinds
of questions, then we will comeinto two scenarios on the one
(25:23):
hand side.
What we discussed earlier todaythat cash is and will stay
dominant in the U S for a very,very long time.
But on the other hand, thesecond question is how can we
use the evolving technologies tomake life of the cash customer
as easy as possible.
And rent Mueller is doing agreat job with innovative
(25:44):
products for them, where we arebasically acknowledged trying to
combine cash customers withvery, very easy technical means
of
Speaker 2 (25:55):
John Francoise.
Same questions for you.
Do you think that a sizeableamount of unbanked or
underbanked will be assimilatedinto this digital payments
mainstream over the next five or10 years?
And then second part is whatwill the future of rental
payments be like both for onlineplatforms like rent, Moolah and
in person
Speaker 4 (26:15):
After 10 years is a pretty long time horizon,
especially in the space wheretechnology is evolving very,
very fast, the way we've seenthe evolution over the past
five, 10 years, it's justamazing in the, in the payment
space.
So it's easy to predict how it'sgoing to be in 10 years from
now.
But yeah, definitely.
I think that the trend we gointo are the payment
(26:37):
digitization, and that willinclude also the unbanked or
underbanked population as youand Mac mentioned.
There are ways for us to improvethe workflow for us and takes
two pays.
One of the option that we haveimplemented.
We have more than 95% of the U Spopulation.
I think it's an 87% of the uspopulation.
(26:58):
We have some sort of mobilephone.
So we've been working to exposethe cash to text messages so
that it's improving the workflowand people, we just receive a
text message with a code whentheir rent is due.
That's going to make theworkflow and their user
experience much more ser andeasier for all type of
population, whether they aretech savvy on that.
(27:20):
I think also that there are preevolution that we come with, the
URL, the solution for financialinclusion and the way to
transform cash into cash, atenant or individual would be
able to charge their wallet withcash and pay their rent, any
type of payment, like securitydeposit also, for example.
(27:42):
So yeah, we will definitely see,see evolution in the market.
We can see that they will alsobe options for transfer rent.
Now, Bellator, there is a boomnow in the market with the buy.
Now pay later that is translatedinto the right now pay later
real-time payment.
Definitely also we see thathappening not only for the
(28:04):
business to business or peer topeer, but for being the right as
well, it will come and peoplewill be able to pay their rent
real time with the benefit ofyour sleeve for the landlord to
collect immediate payment.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Well, Hey, we've covered a lot of ground about
financial inclusion in generaland related to the rental space.
Just wanted to see if there wasanything else, John mark, that
maybe you wanted to add that wehaven't touched on.
Speaker 5 (28:32):
And this is about financial inclusion and we set a
lot of things about rentpayments, but in general, if you
take basically a wider approach,absolutely the same challenges
apply.
If you need to pay your bills,your utility bills, your
healthcare booze and yourgovernment of booths and so on.
(28:53):
So if you take this on anotherlevel, the importance of each
cash towards financial inclusionis in many, many verticals with
nearly the same argumentationand the same number of people
who really have challenges to dothis.
And as we also said to you onthe rent payment space on the
one hand side, the question ishow can I pay my bills rent at
(29:18):
all, but also to use each cashas basically as a mechanism to
make the last minute payment.
So this is what we just saidbefore.
If I'm not paying my rent untilI don't know, Friday off this
week, I get really seriouschallenges from my landlord, but
I don't have any funds on mycredit card or my bank account
(29:39):
left.
So taking this as very, veryimportant point, if you are
talking about governmentpayments, loan service providing
or whatsoever.
So in short cash and the abilityto offer electronic cash to this
huge population is a massiveopportunity for many, many
verticals beyond
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Rent payments, anything you'd like to add?
Speaker 4 (30:03):
Well, I think we cover almost all the topics.
Cash is a way to supportpopulation who are Acer in the
need, or we don't have access tothe same technology of cannot
just open a bank account formany different reasons.
So we see cash as a way tosupport all communities of
renters.
It has a positive impact, apositive social impact.
(30:26):
And as we said before, we don'tanticipate that cash.
We go away in a very near,
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Well, thank you both for being on the show today.
I really appreciate you spendingthe time to discuss this very
important topic.
So thanks again for being hereand for being on the show.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Thank you.
Great.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
And to all you listeners out there, I thank you
for your time as well, and untilthe next store.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Thank you for joining us this week on the leaders in
payments podcast, make sure youvisit our
website@leadersinpayments.com,where you can subscribe to the
show and where you'll find ourshow notes.
If you enjoyed listening, pleaseshare on your social channels as
well.
Welcome to the leaders in payments podcast,
where we talk to C-level leadersfrom across the payments
landscape, we'll be discussingthe products and services that
impact the payment space today,as well as trends and
predictions for the future ofpayments.
We will also hear stories fromour guests about their journeys
to the top.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
This is episode 124, and is our second episode in our
special series on financialinclusion.
When it comes to payments, it'sno secret that digital is
dominating that ecosystem.
This we know, but what aboutAmericans that are either
unbanked or underbanked, thosethat don't have access to the
technology or have the resourcesrequired to take advantage of
(00:39):
the perks digital disruptionprovides and today's podcast,
Paysafe Cassius VP of strategicbusiness development, Yon, mark
helper, and rent Mulas chiefproduct officer John friends'
Whopper said come together tospeak about the current
landscape of the under-bankeddemographic and the strides they
are proactively making tosupport this population.
(01:01):
The ultimate goal to make thelife of the cash consumer as
easy as possible, a creativethinker with 25 years of
thinking about all thingsFinTech Jean-Francois or set is
the chief product officer ofrent Moolah rent Mulla
simplifies property paymentsinto one efficient secure
platform.
(01:22):
Jean-Francois oversees, productinnovation, engineering and
customer success.
Also a big player in the FinTechspace.
And my other guests on thispodcast, Yanmar helper oversees
the E cash business, bothPaysafe card and Paysafe cash in
the United States with theresponsibility of pursuing
strategic partnerships toaccelerate international
(01:43):
expansion together, they providesome much needed insight into
our lingering dependency oncash.
The financial challenges causedby the global pandemic and the
impact this has on some of theirtarget verticals, specifically
the rental market.
We've got a great episode today,so let's jump right in
Speaker 3 (02:05):
[inaudible].
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Hi, John mark, and John Francois.
Thank you so much for being onthe show today.
This is the leaders in paymentspodcast, and I'm your host, Greg
Meyers.
We've got a great episode today,focused on financial inclusion.
So thank you both so much forbeing on the show today.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
It's really a pleasure to sharethe stage with you and Jean-Marc
today.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Okay, well, let's just dive into the questions,
Yon mark, to set the scene.
Can you provide us with anoverview of how significant of
an issue financial collusion isin the United States and maybe
in terms of sheer numbers ofunder-banked and un-banked
Americans?
Speaker 5 (02:42):
Yes, absolutely.
If we talk about financialinclusion, we're talking about
twenty-five percent or in otherwords, one out of four Americans
who do not either have a bankaccount or only have very
limited exit to online financialservices.
If we talk for example abouthouseholds, it's more than 35
(03:03):
million households in the us,which are being either under or
unbanked, this alone is a prettylarge number of people who are
being financially excluded inthe U S right now.
But if you deep a little bitdeeper and talk about, for
example, ethnic minorities,disproportionality is even
higher.
(03:23):
So on average, 42% of theAmericans of an ethnic minority
are either under or unbanked.
And to give you some concreteexamples of cities or counties,
I just looked up a few counties.
So one is a consequence Starrcounty in Texas, where we have
more than 60% of the populationbeing under unbanked.
(03:47):
But even if you go into thelargest cities, for example, to
New York and to the Bronx, weare still talking about 48% on
Miami date, 25% of the peoplewho are living there are either
on a banked or unbanked.
So in our meaning, this is ahuge challenge for the rental
market.
The question is how can thesepeople pay their rent?
(04:10):
What kind of services on themarket to simplify rent
payments, and fact is that cashor checks that the handling of
this is very time time-consumingrisky for both for the renters
as well as for the landlords.
So there's clearly a need forinnovative solutions to solve
this kind of challenge.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So those are some pretty astounding numbers when
you think about it, percentagesand pure numbers.
So in addition to that question,I wanted to have you address the
COVID-19 situation and has thissituation and issue of financial
inclusion or financial exclusiongotten actually worse with these
(04:52):
low income consumers.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Yes, for sure.
We do see basically two maintopics on the one side, the
health issue, and on the otherside, the number of cash
customers or people who need topay in cash.
So on the one hand side, thehealth issue cash payments have
become extremely risky,independent.
They are complicated and arestill a burden to do for many
(05:17):
people talking about the cashaspect of this because of COVID
more and more tenants live frompaycheck to paycheck at the
moment, going back to somethinglike a year from today, the
unemployment rate skyrocketed inearly 2020 from four to 14%.
Now it's back at 5.2%, but thisshows that over the last year,
(05:39):
basically there are many, manypeople who live from paycheck to
paycheck or really had seriouschallenges and pay their rent.
And additionally, many of theso-called gig economy workers
who are being paid veryirregularly and very often in
cash.
So meaning basically, sometimespeople do have bank accounts,
(06:01):
but they do not have availablefunds in the bank account to pay
their rent.
And in many, many cases, cash isbasically the ultimate and last
means of payment for these kindsof people.
In other words, the challengesof following on the one hand
side, you have chaplains whowant or need to pay in cash, and
then you have property managersor landlords who don't want to
(06:24):
handle cash anymore because it'srisky, risky for their health
and so on and so forth.
Then I give you an example.
I personally, I lived in NewYork a couple of years ago, and
what I did is I paid my propertymanager every month with a
check.
So he was sitting in thebasement of the building and
every single month I visited himin the basement and paid in
(06:46):
cash.
And I guess I was one of thelucky ones because other people
need to go to a single paymentlocation across town queue up
between 10:00 AM and noon.
These people are being put onrisk because they are forced to
go there to queue up, to wait inline with other people,
especially in the pandemic.
So again, there is a need forpayment solutions in the market
(07:08):
that address exactly these kindsof challenges and have these
people towards financialinclusion last but not least.
Another point is the so-calledstimulus check.
People have been paid and the US in cash or with this checks.
And again, this is a huge numberof additional people who
basically, who are forced to paytheir bills and rents and so on
(07:30):
and cash.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Great.
Well, thank you for that.
So John Francoise, let's turn toyou.
Let's zoom in on the rentalspace that your platform rent
Moolah serves.
How do those issues that werejust described for the unbanked
and underbanked in Americans?
How does that impact theirpayment of rent?
Like how serious of an issue isit for them when making these
monthly payments?
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Well, obviously it's a very serious issue.
First of all, rent Moolah is oneof the leading platform for
collecting rent.
And we cover us and Canadamarkets for rents that represent
one of the largest, if not thelargest recurring payments and
can represent up to 50% of thetenant household income in the U
S all platform, any paymentplatform are reconsidered as
(08:15):
mission critical for alternate,for paying their rent on time.
And on time is critical righthere and for the landlord to
collect their revenue.
So if you look at the 25% of theunbanked or underbanked
population versus 48 million ofrenters in this population,
certainly represent median oftenants who are unbanked and
(08:37):
underbanked.
And these people, while theystill need to put a roof over
their head, they need to paytheir rent on time, like, like,
and renters, and just, we callwhat Jean-Marc was saying.
COVID has made it worse for afew reasons.
Obviously, as soon as the COVIDstarted lots of landlords, if
(08:58):
not all the landlords and lastproperty manager, or they had to
shut up.
So they were no longer offeringthe possibility for tenants to
just show up in the office andpay their rent in cash.
That's has been a real criticalissue.
In addition to the trend, thedigital or digitization trends
with payment that has reaccelerated with the COVID and
(09:23):
Joseph appointees, as Yanmarpointed out, we at 75% of the us
population who lives frompaycheck to paycheck, and for
them one day matters, meaningthat a large part of the
population we cannot afford tosend money ahead of time to
ensure that if you have moneyorder, for example, to ensure
(09:43):
that the payment will arrive ontime, they have rehab to make
the payment at the last minutewhen they cash their check, or
when they receive the payment.
This is where it's very criticalfor them to show consistency and
visibility on their payment.
And it is important to have asolution with a payment platform
(10:03):
that would consolidate all typeof payment that would offer that
visibility to the landlord thatthe tenant is paying.
Even if it's in cash, in aconsistent and predicted.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Are there any other challenges that you feel the
unbanked or underbanked havewhen they need to pay their
rent?
Well,
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Gritty is definitely one of the challenge for the
tenant to have to carry somecash and go to a place as though
it's a dicey to the landlordplace.
And that can only be at certaintime during the day when the
office is open and they have todo their job most of the time
during the same hours, and alsofor the landlord to carry money
(10:45):
for the rent that they collect.
So secret is definitely achallenge that has to be
addressed as,
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So y'all mark back to you.
We hear a lot about the death ofcash and obviously the dominance
of digital payments.
Do you feel like cash is stillking for the un-banked and
under-banked Americans,including when they pay their
rent?
Speaker 5 (11:06):
I would call this kind of a payment dilemma, which
is rising in the U S on the onehand side, you have great
innovations, new digital paymentoptions, new technologies, and
everything to simplify payments.
But on the other hand, you havethis massive challenge.
What we just discussed for theundone underbanked.
(11:26):
Their biggest problem is not tomake a payment as convenient as
possible to make it even withoutany interaction.
That biggest problem is how canI pay my daily bills, my rent,
and how can I do it efficientlyand most important safely.
So we need to be extremelycareful not to forget these
(11:47):
kinds of people.
When we talk about digitalpayments, I would even go one
step further and say, we need tobe careful not to discriminate
them because in the end, again,these are the 25% who have a
massive, massive problem.
They need to have new ways to,to simplify the payment needs
(12:07):
based on their abilities, whatthey can do.
And to be honest, it's not onlyabout the underbanked in the U S
it's still the 31% of alltransactions in the U S that are
still in cash.
So to give another example ofthe importance of this topic,
this topic is also addressed onthe political level where the
(12:28):
discussion is about keeping cashas a mandatory payment option
for offline businesses.
So I'm talking here about thepayment choice act, which is
actually done by both artists,that cities, and there are
states basically, which by lawfor bit to abandon cash in
stores and putting all thistogether or putting a long story
(12:50):
short for sure cash is and willcontinue to be a very, very
important payment method in theU S the only question for the
rental market is, is there asolution to solve this payment
dilemma?
And in my mind that two steps,so on the first step is
basically, are there anyofferings in the market that
allow payments in cash?
(13:11):
So in other words, can tenantsuse cash, pay their rent an easy
and convenient way?
Is it possible that cash will beautomatically converted into
electronic cash?
Because the landlords want tosee electronic cash and want to
have the rent automatic B'sbeing settled into that bank at
cons.
In other words, are there anyother solutions which are either
(13:34):
then checks money orders, cashpayments itself?
And then the second step isbasically how can you combine
these cash or cash payments withthe newest trends and audit to
give the tenants a possibilityto make even IE cash payments as
convenient as possible?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I think that's a great segue into the next
question.
Obviously, your companies paysafe cash product is an easy
cash or online cash solution.
So can you tell us more aboutthat in a second part of the
question is, can you tell usabout the value of promoting
financial inclusion in both theU S for consumers and merchants?
Speaker 5 (14:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
Knowing basically the challengesfor the banks in the U S we
developed a solution to solveexactly the problems we just
discussed before and to drivefinancial inclusion.
Not every one has basically thetechnical equipment to do
electronic payments.
So therefore solutions should beas easy and straightforward as
(14:35):
possible, and should also beaccessible to people who don't
have a smartphone, a computer,and so on.
And therefore, basically wedeveloped a product called pace
of cash by SF cash is extremelysimple from the use case, under
case of rent Moola, you simplylock into your payment portal
from rent Mueller.
You say, Hey, I want to pay withcash.
(14:57):
You click on Paysafe cash, andthen a barcode will be
generated.
And you simply take this barcode to any one of our more than
65,000 point of sales in the U Slike seven 11, CVS dollar
general and so on.
And you simply show the barcodethere and say, I want to make a
cash payment at this conveniencestores.
(15:19):
The backup will be skinned.
You pay in cash, and then thetransaction is completed.
In other words, we get informedin real time about the payment.
We will inform rent Mueller orMueller can inform the property
manager that the payment hasbeen made.
So it's basically as easy it'stheirs.
And what we say, it's basicallya way for the landlord to accept
(15:40):
cash without the hassle tohandle cash.
So pace of cash is not acompetition to any other payment
methods like credit or debitcards is simply an addition to
give a completely differenttarget group, the possibility to
make electronic payments again,the cash customers,
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Hey, everyone.
This is your host, Greg Myers.
And as many of you already know,October is financial inclusion
month.
And we're going to be talkingabout all of the products,
services, and ways that thepayments and FinTech industry
helps support the under-bankedand unbanked a special thanks to
our title sponsors, the clearinghouse and Paysafe cash, as well
as our principal sponsor instantfinancial.
(16:25):
Now, back to the show, Startingto use Jean-Francois your
platform added Paysafe cash asan easy cash payment method for
rental payments earlier thisyear.
So from your perspective, canyou explain the benefits of cash
to first the renters?
(16:46):
So the un-banked andunder-banked that we've been
talking about.
And then secondly, the value ofit to the landlords or the
property owners
Speaker 4 (16:55):
At Franklin, our vision and our mission is to
help people pay their rent.
We cannot leave anyone behind.
So we are dealing with a veryloud diversity of tenants,
whether it's in term of cultureor generation tech savviness,
and we really endeavor to allowalternatives to make a payment
with their preferred payment,and definitely cash is the
(17:18):
solution for Southern part ofthe population.
Whereas there is the populationwe mentioned for the under back
on bank, but also some people,even if they have bank account,
this still prefer to makepayment in cash.
So cash is really the solutionthat offer the flexibility for
all these people to make thepayment.
They have the flexibility interm of location, because as
(17:42):
Matt mentioned, there are 65,000different places or point of
sales in the us where they canmake a payment, the flexible of
timing.
They can make the paymentsoutside of their working hour of
during the weekend, where it'sreally convenient for them, the
flexibility to make the paymentwhen they can make the payment,
meaning when they have receivedtheir salary.
(18:02):
It also offer the visibility forthe landlord because as you and
Matt mentioned, as soon as thepayment is done at the point of
sales, we know, and we caninform the landlord, the
landlord doesn't need to wait tosee the payment on their bank
account immediately.
Even first, they see if alandlord has requested a
(18:23):
backward, which is the firstaction in the workflow, then
they can see when the paymenthas been done.
And finally, obviously they willsee when they have received and
being able to make payment ontime and receiving payment on
time is critical for the tenantsso that they don't incur any
late fee, but the propertymanager or the landlord, they
have an obligation on theirside.
(18:44):
They have financial obligationon their site as well.
They have to pay expenses, theyhave to pay mortgages and they
need to have the visibility onwhen the payment, in addition to
the security that we talk aboutbefore that, uh, it provides
where people no longer, at leastfor their lender, they not only
have to carry a pretty largeamount of cash, but as well for
(19:07):
the tenant because of theflexibility to make the payment
whenever and wherever they want.
And also believe that despitethe digitization trends and the
acceleration during the COVID inreality, the us has a long way
from a cashless society and precash has a long life ahead as
well.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah.
As a host of a show whointerviews, payments companies,
we've been talking about thisdigital dominance and cash going
away.
And the other one that we talkabout are the writing of checks.
That's going to go away.
I don't know, maybe I'm anaysayer, but I think that cash
and check writing as much as wemay want it to go away.
It's still going to be aroundfor a long, long time.
(19:47):
So Jamar back to you, if he cashsolve certain problems for the
un-banked and under-banked inrelation to rent payments, what
challenges remain for both therenter and the landlord or
property management from theirperspective.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
So I think we just talked about challenges from the
customer perspective, but cashin general is also solving
problem for the landlord or theproperty manager in general,
talking about the increase ofefficiency due to automatic
electronic payments, or ingeneral, that there is no cost
for cash handling anymore.
No need to keep a physicaloffice open.
(20:23):
What SWAT just said thatbasically they're these kinds of
offices from the propertymanager were closed due to
COVID.
So we can basically massivelyreduce, or each cash can
massively reduce the operationalcosts on this side as well.
Also, one extremely importantpoint about EKG in general, and
the characteristic of each cashis at the second, you are doing
(20:45):
a payment at a convenience storeand pay for your barcode.
These funds are guaranteed.
So by definition, they are nochargebacks possible in contrast
to other means of payments.
This also gives the propertymanager or the landlord an
additional level of security,because again, we are talking
about cash payments, which arevery often done on the very,
(21:08):
very last day.
And then if you have on topchargeback risk, then this could
be an issue.
And cash is basically alsosolving this kind of risk.
So in short, besides all thetopics we discussed from an
customer perspective or thelandlords, there are increases
of efficiency, less cost on ouroperational side.
(21:30):
And these kinds of payments arealso safe compared to other
payments.
When we talk about chargebacks,
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Okay, John Francois, anything you'd like to add to
that?
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Yeah.
We talk about the payment makingthe payment for the rent, but
there isn't as a challenge forthis population as well is
supposed to be able to beapproved by your landlord or
property manager.
This is the whole process of thetenant screening, and we have
the old fashioned credit scorebackground shake it's still
happening, but there is a trainnow for the landlord that they
(22:01):
found to be more reliable is thebank account analysis.
It's really being able to lookat the tenant bank accounts or
asking when the tenant willsubmit an application for
property, or you need to linktheir bank account so that we
can put information onhistorical information.
And obviously this is notpossible for people who are
paying in cash and cash could becertainly one of those potential
(22:26):
solution for that, because thereis traceability.
And when the payment is done onthe platform like rent Mueller,
we have the history of all thecash payment, and we can
retrieve all this history anduse that, or the tenant can use
it when they apply for the unitand demonstrate that they have
been able to pay their rent in aconsistent manner, even if it's
(22:48):
with cash.
So I think IE cash and thetransparency and traceability
will also super the under-bankedpopulation to have better access
to rain.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
So during the application process, the
landlord could see if they'veused any cash to pay rent maybe
to another landlord.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Yes, exactly.
Okay.
We will start with thisinformation on our platform.
So we are able to pull thishistory irrespective of the
payment.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Okay.
I'm sure that's very valuable tothe landlord to be able to do
that.
Cause I was sort of thinking aswe were talking, is that a
challenge?
And obviously you guys haveaddressed that.
So we've talked about financialinclusion in the rental space
and how it can be addressedtoday and some of the
challenges, but this question isfor both of you, but beyond
mark, we'll start with you.
(23:36):
What about the future?
Do you think that a sizeableamount of these un-banked and
under-banked will be assimilatedinto digital payments mainstream
over the next few years?
I mean, that's sort of the firstpart of the question.
And then the second part is whatwill the future be for rental
payments via online methods likerent Moola or even in person?
Speaker 5 (23:56):
I think it's always the customer and their needs
need to stay in focus,especially at the one who has
been forgotten by the otherindustries who digitalized,
without thinking of cash or linecustomers, meaning we need to
know what exactly are theproblems or the cash customers.
And then basically we need tobuild solutions which are
(24:17):
exactly addressing these kindsof needs or the customer
segments.
So I'm talking on the one handside on the really high
technical gen Z generation, butalso on the other hand to
elderly people who perhaps whodon't have a smartphone or a
computer, what kind of servicescan we offer them in order to
pay in cash?
(24:39):
It's not only about thequestion, is it cash or is it
credit card or whatsoever?
It's also a question.
How can you bring basically eachcash to the different target
group, the highly technical onesto the ones who don't have
access to any technologies.
And then obviously the secondquestion is how can you develop
solutions from people who havethe fixed salary, the fixed
(25:02):
income to people who arebasically paid based on the
hours they're working andperhaps also in the gig economy
also paying them cash.
And I think if you are able todesign new products around
exactly these skills, and if youcan answer exactly these kinds
of questions, then we will comeinto two scenarios on the one
(25:23):
hand side.
What we discussed earlier todaythat cash is and will stay
dominant in the U S for a very,very long time.
But on the other hand, thesecond question is how can we
use the evolving technologies tomake life of the cash customer
as easy as possible.
And rent Mueller is doing agreat job with innovative
(25:44):
products for them, where we arebasically acknowledged trying to
combine cash customers withvery, very easy technical means
of
Speaker 2 (25:55):
John Francoise.
Same questions for you.
Do you think that a sizeableamount of unbanked or
underbanked will be assimilatedinto this digital payments
mainstream over the next five or10 years?
And then second part is whatwill the future of rental
payments be like both for onlineplatforms like rent, Moolah and
in person
Speaker 4 (26:15):
After 10 years is a pretty long time horizon,
especially in the space wheretechnology is evolving very,
very fast, the way we've seenthe evolution over the past
five, 10 years, it's justamazing in the, in the payment
space.
So it's easy to predict how it'sgoing to be in 10 years from
now.
But yeah, definitely.
I think that the trend we gointo are the payment
(26:37):
digitization, and that willinclude also the unbanked or
underbanked population as youand Mac mentioned.
There are ways for us to improvethe workflow for us and takes
two pays.
One of the option that we haveimplemented.
We have more than 95% of the U Spopulation.
I think it's an 87% of the uspopulation.
(26:58):
We have some sort of mobilephone.
So we've been working to exposethe cash to text messages so
that it's improving the workflowand people, we just receive a
text message with a code whentheir rent is due.
That's going to make theworkflow and their user
experience much more ser andeasier for all type of
population, whether they aretech savvy on that.
(27:20):
I think also that there are preevolution that we come with, the
URL, the solution for financialinclusion and the way to
transform cash into cash, atenant or individual would be
able to charge their wallet withcash and pay their rent, any
type of payment, like securitydeposit also, for example.
(27:42):
So yeah, we will definitely see,see evolution in the market.
We can see that they will alsobe options for transfer rent.
Now, Bellator, there is a boomnow in the market with the buy.
Now pay later that is translatedinto the right now pay later
real-time payment.
Definitely also we see thathappening not only for the
(28:04):
business to business or peer topeer, but for being the right as
well, it will come and peoplewill be able to pay their rent
real time with the benefit ofyour sleeve for the landlord to
collect immediate payment.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Well, Hey, we've covered a lot of ground about
financial inclusion in generaland related to the rental space.
Just wanted to see if there wasanything else, John mark, that
maybe you wanted to add that wehaven't touched on.
Speaker 5 (28:32):
And this is about financial inclusion and we set a
lot of things about rentpayments, but in general, if you
take basically a wider approach,absolutely the same challenges
apply.
If you need to pay your bills,your utility bills, your
healthcare booze and yourgovernment of booths and so on.
(28:53):
So if you take this on anotherlevel, the importance of each
cash towards financial inclusionis in many, many verticals with
nearly the same argumentationand the same number of people
who really have challenges to dothis.
And as we also said to you onthe rent payment space on the
one hand side, the question ishow can I pay my bills rent at
(29:18):
all, but also to use each cashas basically as a mechanism to
make the last minute payment.
So this is what we just saidbefore.
If I'm not paying my rent untilI don't know, Friday off this
week, I get really seriouschallenges from my landlord, but
I don't have any funds on mycredit card or my bank account
(29:39):
left.
So taking this as very, veryimportant point, if you are
talking about governmentpayments, loan service providing
or whatsoever.
So in short cash and the abilityto offer electronic cash to this
huge population is a massiveopportunity for many, many
verticals beyond
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Rent payments, anything you'd like to add?
Speaker 4 (30:03):
Well, I think we cover almost all the topics.
Cash is a way to supportpopulation who are Acer in the
need, or we don't have access tothe same technology of cannot
just open a bank account formany different reasons.
So we see cash as a way tosupport all communities of
renters.
It has a positive impact, apositive social impact.
(30:26):
And as we said before, we don'tanticipate that cash.
We go away in a very near,
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Well, thank you both for being on the show today.
I really appreciate you spendingthe time to discuss this very
important topic.
So thanks again for being hereand for being on the show.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Thank you.
Great.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
And to all you listeners out there, I thank you
for your time as well, and untilthe next store.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Thank you for joining us this week on the leaders in
payments podcast, make sure youvisit our
website@leadersinpayments.com,where you can subscribe to the
show and where you'll find ourshow notes.
If you enjoyed listening, pleaseshare on your social channels as
well.
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