September 8, 2025 • 21 mins
What happens when you give ambitious entrepreneurs around the world the financial tools previously reserved for multinational corporations? John Caplan, CEO of Payoneer, reveals the transformative impact of enabling truly global commerce for small businesses on this episode of the Leaders in Payments Podcast.
Celebrating its 20th anniversary, Payoneer serves as a "foreign bank alternative" for 2 million active customers in virtually every country worldwide. With $80 billion in payment volume flowing through their platform annually and $7 billion in customer funds held in balance, Payoneer has established itself as a trusted financial partner for global entrepreneurs. Caplan explains how their multi-currency accounts and payment solutions help businesses receive international payments and manage global operations without the delays and excessive fees of traditional banking.
The diversity of Payoneer's customer base highlights the universal need for better cross-border financial services. From goods exporters in China selling on Amazon to business process outsourcers in the Philippines, software developers in Argentina, and marketing firms in Dubai – Payoneer empowers businesses across sectors to participate in the global economy.
Caplan's own journey to Payoneer reflects the value of fresh perspectives in payments. With an entrepreneurial background spanning Arizona Iced Tea, Starbucks, Ford Models, and transforming Alibaba.com from $800M to $3.5B in revenue, he brings cross-industry experience to financial services. He emphasizes that payments should evolve beyond mere "pipes and plumbing" to become truly value-accretive services, and encourages career-switchers to question industry conventions with persistent "why" questions that drive innovation.
Looking ahead, Payoneer is expanding further into B2B payments, exploring stablecoins and blockchain for treasury operations, and developing workforce management tools – all aimed at making global business operations seamless for ambitious entrepreneurs. For listeners interested in financial innovation that empowers global commerce, this episode offers valuable insights into how technology is democratizing access to the world economy.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Leaders in Payments podcast,
where we talk to C-level leadersfrom across the payments
landscape.
We'll be discussing theproducts and services that
impact the payment space today,as well as trends and
predictions for the future ofpayments.
We will also hear stories fromour guests about their journeys
to the top.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Leaders in
Payments podcast.
I'm your host, greg Myers, andon today's show we have a very
special guest, john Kaplan, theCEO of Payoneer.
So, john, thank you so much forbeing here and welcome to the
show.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
It's really great to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah, why don't we start out by having you tell our
audience a little bit aboutyourself, maybe where you're
born, where you grew up, whereyou went to school, a few things
like that?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Awesome.
So, born and raised in Green,here in New York City, I've been
an insatiable entrepreneursince childhood.
You know love buildingcompanies, learning about
customers.
So, born and raised in New York, joined Payoneer in May of 2022
.
And I live here in New Yorkwith my wife.
I have two kids, a 20-year-oldand a 24-year-old, and we have
(01:00):
3,700 Payoneer colleagues aroundthe globe.
So I spend most of my timetraveling internationally to
meet with our teams and see ourcustomers and our partners
around the globe.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Okay.
Well, for those in the audiencethat may not know what Payoneer
does, can you just kind of giveus that overview?
We?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
are an awesome company.
We just celebrated our 20thanniversary, actually, which is
an extraordinary accomplishmentfor our fintech.
Payne is a really interestingbusiness.
We solve a problem for globalsmall business owners, which is
we're a foreign bank alternativefor them.
We give them a multi-currencyaccount where they receive their
international accountsreceivable and they use our
(01:39):
accounts payable tools to managetheir operations, and so we
have 2 million active customersin just about every country and
territory on the planet.
We are $80 billion of volumeflowing into paying your
accounts.
So we're a big scaledcross-border payment solution
for small business owners, andthe sort of heartbeat or the
(02:01):
mission of the company is thisidea that ambitious
entrepreneurs don't have all theadvantages that multinational
corporates do.
And if we could give theambitious entrepreneurs of the
world a financial servicessolution with great technology,
ease of use, fast speed andinnovation, as well as lots of
(02:23):
service.
We're on the ground in 30markets, countries around the
globe, in places like Lahore,pakistan, or in Medellin,
colombia, where we're helpingcross-border entrepreneurs
really participate in the globaleconomy.
Payoneer has gone through apretty extraordinary pivot over
the last three years.
We really were the innovatorsand pioneers of the marketplace
(02:46):
payout space right Someoneselling on Amazon or a
freelancer on Fiverr or Upworkneeded to get paid and pay near
solve that problem and thatbuilt the company and took the
company public and when I joinedwe solidified that business and
continue to grow it reallynicely.
And now we're very focused onour B2B business, which is
(03:07):
helping cross-border as you know, cross-border payments between
businesses, and that's one thatthe TAM and SAM are so big.
There's not enough zeros on mycalculator, certainly on my
iPhone, to capture the size ofthe market and we're the market
leader there, providing value inVietnam and in Turkey and in
Australia and Japan and justabout every place you could name
(03:29):
on the planet to helpcross-border SMBs participate in
the global economy.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Okay, are there certain verticals within small
business that you focus more on?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
We have both goods and services companies, right.
So pretty much in our Chinafranchise it's primarily goods
exporters, right?
People who are selling onWalmart or Amazon or eBay or
Etsy or TikTok or Timu or one ofthe big marketplace platforms.
They're goods exporters to theworld, right, china is the
largest manufacturer of exporterof physical goods.
(04:00):
We're the leader in China.
So that's one side of ourbusiness.
The other side, in the services,it's business process
outsourcers in the Philippines,companies that are the call
center for an American business.
Those businesses use Payoneerto receive their payments, get
paid into their Payoneer accountand they use Payoneer to pay
their contractors andfreelancers around the globe.
(04:23):
And companies here in theUnited States.
You know there was one that wasat our 20th anniversary, bo
Pilgrim.
That runs a business inLouisiana that helps insurance
companies in the US outsourcesome of their operations around
the world, and Bo's team usesPayne here to manage their
payments to all theircontractors globally and they
(04:44):
help other insurance agentsaround the US do just the same.
There isn't one size of SMB,there isn't one industry.
It's marketing servicescompanies in Dubai, it's
software developers in Argentinaand BPOs in the Philippines.
And what I think is prettypowerful about that, greg, for
us is because we're so globaland so diverse.
(05:06):
In the last couple of yearsthere's been lots of macro
shocks to the industry and we'vehad which is really frigging
awesome, we've had 16% compoundannual growth since I became CEO
each quarter and that is reallyimpressive when you think about
the size of the global economyand all the shocks that have
happened that we've been able tojust steady our deliver.
(05:28):
That's really a testament tothe pain in your team around the
world.
That's the best people I'veever had a privilege to
collaborate with.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
I want to make sure I understand.
When you're a small business,you set up an account, but it's
not like a checking account, butyou do have money flowing in
and out.
Can maybe you explain that alittle bit Sure?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
So every one of our customers has what I think of as
their analog bank relationshipin their home market, and they
use that to pay their local rent, to buy their local supplies
what have you?
But in most parts of the globeyou're a global company from day
one.
When you get started, you'reeither sourcing supplies or
(06:05):
talent or capability outside ofyour borders, or you're a global
company from day one when youget started.
You're either sourcing suppliesor talent or capability outside
of your borders, or you'reselling your capability outside
of your borders, and when you dothat, you might be getting paid
in dollars or yen or euro orwhat have you.
And your local bank certainlyisn't the solution for that.
So our customers use Payoneeras their international account
to get paid into for theirinternational accounts
(06:25):
receivable, and then those samecustomers have international
accounts payable and what theydo is use Payoneer's credit
cards and debit cards andpayment products to manage those
international expenses.
And, as I said a moment ago, wehave about $80 billion or so
over that coming into thePayoneer accounts and, at last
earnings, we had $7 billion ofcustomer funds held in balance,
(06:49):
and so it just indicates thetrust our 2 million active
customers have in the Payoneerplatform is they're receiving
their funds, they're using it tomanage their accounts payable
and they're holding the fundswith us.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Well, what would you say differentiates you from your
competitors?
Or maybe explain what do peopledo that don't use Payoneer?
How would they accomplish whatyou're talking about?
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yeah, so it's interesting.
It's a great question becausereally we are a seartaker from
local banks at the last mile.
So the network we've built islicenses around the globe,
critically important bankrelationships around the globe,
critically important bankrelationships around the globe
to deliver funds last mile.
A technology stack that enablesrapid, exceptionally fast
(07:33):
movement of funds and moneyaround the globe and a suite of
software products that wraparound that, that make doing
business easy.
And I think you probably wouldagree, the payments market is
big enough that there's enoughat the buffet that everybody can
eat.
So it's not really awinner-take-all market.
It's a focus on segments ofcustomers super serve the hell
(07:55):
out of them, give them what theyneed and they reward you with
their volumes and loyalty, whichobviously delivers for our
shareholders.
We largely take share fromlocal banks.
The alternatives would be touse, frankly, the technology
that existed when our parentswere running businesses 1970s
level, wait three weeks, hope toget paid and pay exorbitant
(08:16):
fees in the process.
We're innovative, at the frontof the market, bringing speed
and convenience to customersaround the globe, and really
really good at doing that.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
And you mentioned earlier that you made a pivot
from the original business.
What drove that decision?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I think pivot it maybe is not exactly the right
word, Chris.
We have this great marketplacepayouts business, which is a
$300 billion market where wehave 20% share, but it's a $300
billion market when you look atthe multi-trillion dollar B2B
payment space, where we havesingle digit share in a few
markets but less than 1% sort ofglobally.
(08:54):
The opportunity for the nextdecade of growth is so
substantial and what we see inour customers is that, as we've
moved up market and what I meanby that is, instead of customers
who are a million dollar a yearturnover businesses to $30
million a year turnoverbusinesses they actually need
more and more of our productsand services.
(09:16):
Our net revenue retention isstronger and stronger with our
larger cohort of customers, andso, by moving into the B2B space
, not only is the addressablesize of the pie bigger, but our
net revenue retention isstronger, Our revenue per
customer is greater and thenumber of products those
customers are using is more andmore, and that really feels like
(09:38):
the powerful part of our valueprop is to support businesses
that are underserved by themultinational banks but have all
the complexity of multinationalcompanies.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Okay, banks, but have all the complexity of
multinational companies.
Okay, and you mentioned earlieryou talked a little bit about,
like, the macro events and howyou guys have been able to push
through those and continue togrow.
But you know, you know, and, asa payments person, one of the
things we always worry about isthe regulatory environment,
compliance, licensing, all ofthose things.
And you guys are not doing thatjust in one country, you're
doing it in all these countries.
(10:12):
So curious is your thoughts onthat how do you manage that big
of an effort?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
You know, we operate in difficult to operate parts of
the globe and do so with a veryintense focus on doing it as
well as we possibly can andimproving.
But we believe our relationshipto regulators and banks is part
of the moat that helps to buildthe brand and trust of Payoneer
, and so we announced that wehad acquired a PSP in China.
(10:39):
That's a strategic move We'veshared that we've applied for
the appropriate licenses andrelationships to continue to
build a regulatory shell aroundPayoneer that our customers and
the partners we do business withcan trust.
And that is a super priority ofours, because I think people
(11:05):
look at the volumes of moneymoving around the globe and
think, oh wow, I want to getmyself a piece of that, but
don't understand theresponsibility that comes with
it.
And we take thoseresponsibilities as deeply
important.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
And you recently had an announcement about your
relationship or partnership withStripe.
Can you talk about that for aminute?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yeah, so this came out of our, if you think, sort
of in a big picture.
We are helping customers whosell on marketplaces Amazon,
ebay, etsy, what have you.
We're helping customers sellB2B, wholesale orders around the
globe, and lots of our globalcustomers actually sell direct
to consumers and we built adirect to consumer checkout
(11:46):
business that got to a billiondollars of volume.
So we saw the product marketfit and the opportunity and the
team leading that effortrecognized that we wanted to
accelerate our capabilitiesreally quickly and the fastest
way to do that was to partnerwith Stripe and leverage their
best-in-class technology withour global distribution and
(12:06):
incredible service model.
And so we've announced that andwe're excited about the
prospect there, which is, youknow, we want 100% of someone's
accounts receivable in theirPayoneer account and 100% of
their accounts payable usingPayoneer tools.
And if building our ecosystemof partnerships with Stripe or
MasterCard or fill in the blankpotential partner, we think
(12:27):
that's a better way to servecustomers.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Well, let's switch gears a little bit and talk
about you.
So, if you don't mind, walk usthrough your career journey how
you got to Payoneer, maybe whereyou started and how you even
got here.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Well, I started on 9th Street in Branch Village in
Washington Square Park, so I wasan English major.
This is a dream come true towork at Payoneer.
It's an extraordinary group ofpeople.
I've been an entrepreneur mywhole life.
I was on the team that helpedcreate Arizona Iced Tea, the
beverage company.
I led marketing for theexpansion of Starbucks across
(12:59):
east of Chicago.
When that was happening.
I was on the team that reallyhelped build and think about
what the first wave of theinternet was.
When I was at Aboutcom in 98, 99, and 2000, which was an
extraordinary journey.
Then went to Ford Models, thefashion talent firm, and
modernized that business, whichwas a really interesting
(13:20):
experience and taught me thevalue of platforms Both.
About was a platform to empowercontent creators.
Ford Models was a platform toempower people in the fashion
industry and then started a firmcalled OpenSky to help small
businesses sell on the internetand ultimately sold that to
Alibaba Group, where I went tolead the modernization
(13:41):
transformation of Alibabacom,which is, you know, when I got
there was $800 million ofrevenue and $200 of EBITDA.
When I left it was $3.5 billionof revenue and $800 of EBITDA.
When I left it was three and ahalf billion of revenue and 800
of EBITDA, really the fastestgrowing, most global part of the
Alibaba franchise.
And that's when I met ScottGallat, who was my predecessor
here, and we were taking a walkin Central Park during COVID,
(14:04):
like two middle-aged dads whoare obsessed with cross-border
trade and small businesses, andwe're taking a walk in the park.
I was like, hey, Scott, youknow, I think I'm leaving
Alibaba.
I'm not sure what I'm going todo next.
And he said, well, why don'tyou take my job?
And I was like that sounds likethe best job in the world.
I'd love it.
And said yes, on the spot.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
That's awesome.
So what was it about?
Payoneer, you so much.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Well, the culture of Painter is extraordinary, right
Like this.
This is a company ofentrepreneurs for entrepreneurs,
and so we are.
You know we have 2 millioncustomers in every, who speak
every language, sleep in everycountry, have grew up in every
tradition you can imagine, sothere's something very
empowering about being inservice of other people who are
(14:48):
trying to make the world abetter place for themselves and
their families.
Like that's just like jump outof bed in the morning stuff.
So that was one.
The second is it's a bigchallenge to join a firm in its
16th, 17th year, responsible formodernizing, transforming it
and re-energizing growth andprofitability in an industry you
haven't worked in before.
(15:10):
It requires an equalcombination of chutzpah, which
is Yiddish for courage, and justcuriosity, and I love helping
other businesses be successful,and at Payoneer we get to touch
lots of companies and help themachieve what they're trying to
achieve, and it's working, whichis really nice.
The team we've assembled hereis a combination of insurgent
(15:34):
entrepreneurs you knowextraordinary payments people,
great deal, makers andinnovators, and the orchestra is
playing pretty nicely togetherthese days, and so I feel like
this next decade for Payne isgoing to be a great one.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
So what are some things you'repassionate about?
Maybe one work-related passionand one personal passion.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
So the work passion for me is I like to champion the
underdogs.
So what we did at Payoneer iswe created a top talent program
where, when I first joined,we're in our third or fourth
cohort, where we take highpotential, high impact people
who are the future leaders ofthe company, that maybelong
(16:16):
curriculum about the company andopportunity to inflect and
influence the business we'rebuilding.
And it's cross-functional, it'sglobal.
So your people from Vietnam andBrazil and China and Israel and
the US all coming together as acohort to grow and I love that
and I think it's awesome andit's customer-centric and
employee-centric and it's, Ithink, showing really great
(16:37):
progress for us.
Centric and employee centricand it's, I think, showing
really great progress for us.
And outside of work, besides myfamily and my kids, which I
adore, I'm someone who likes tospend a lot of time in museums
and explore art and creativityand understand the creative
process and where people seekinspiration and how they take
that inspiration to createthings.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
So when you travel, do you take extra time to visit
places like that?
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I do.
I actually do.
If I'm lucky, I try to get anhour in whatever museum,
wherever I am in the world Inthe next couple of weeks.
I'll be in Boston, london, TelAviv and San Francisco in the
next three weeks, and so I'mhoping that there'll be a
45-minute pit stop along the wayin each of those destinations.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Nice, nice.
Well, john, if someone comes toyou and they're interested in
maybe a career change intopayments or maybe they've just
graduated from college, theylook at fintech as an exciting
industry and they want to builda career there what kind of
advice would you give them tohelp them be successful?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
I think the first thing is there is no substitute
for really studying and learningand being curious, right.
So I think the paymentsindustry is, in a funny way,
kind of insular, where paymentspeople only talk to payments
people, and I actually think theindustry benefits when career
switchers come in and learn andthen ask why.
(17:57):
Career switchers come in andlearn and then ask why, keep
asking why, why do we do it thisway, why is the firm set, why
were these the rules?
And that's one of the reasons Ithink the stable coin
innovation is pretty excitingbecause some of those innovators
now in the context of theGenius Act have been asking why
and talking about innovativesolutions that may bring value
to customers.
In the past that hasn't beenthere and those why questions, I
(18:20):
think, lead to breakthroughs.
So everyone I think I wouldsuggest is you know and then
listen more than you speak inthe beginning.
It's always you save yourpowder for when you know what
you're talking about, not forwhen you're, you know, shooting
from the hip.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Well, one final question before we go.
Let's talk about the future alittle bit.
Where do you see paymentsheaded?
Where do you see Payoneerheaded?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Just curious about your outlook on the future
thinks about the pipes and theplumbing until they stop working
, and I actually think paymentscan be a lot more than pipes and
plumbing.
It can be value accretive tocustomers and we're certainly
(19:03):
seeing that in our business whenwe see our net revenue.
Retention numbers for our bestcohorts of customers are really
strong, and they're strongbecause they're using both
payment rails and softwaretogether, and so I think the
sort of narrow definition ofwhat a payments firm is, I think
, is probably long-term going toexpand more broadly.
(19:23):
So that'd be one area.
Another is certainly in theinnovation in stable coins and
blockchain technology fortreasury.
Work, I think, is we've sharedin our last earnings.
We're leveraging our massivescale and incredible last mile
to begin to explore ways todeploy things in a pragmatic way
, and that's underway.
I think that's exciting.
We've added a workforcemanagement component to our
(19:46):
offering, which is fantastic,where we're actually helping
people manage the employees andcontractors outside of their
home market in a way that showsyou can do business globally
with your payments and youremployees in one platform at
Payoneer.
I think that's pretty excitingfor us.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Okay, all right.
Well, john, before we wrap up,just want to open the floor, see
if there's anything we may havemissed, anything else you
wanted to cover before we closedup the show?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yeah, I think one of the things about Payoneer and
certainly my approach and ourapproach at Payoneer has been
this sort of innovation agendais in full swing here and taking
a business like Payoneer thathad experienced hyper growth
through the pandemic and then 5%growth right after we
re-accelerated that 24 or 20%growth business, we were solidly
(20:37):
a mid-teens grower in the firsthalf of this year and, given
all the macro dynamics that havegone on with tariffs and the
like, we feel really great aboutour execution and performance
and for the young people who arepaying attention out there, the
water is warm up into payments.
It's a lot of fun here, even ifyou come from outside the
industry, because they're smartpeople looking for creativity
(20:59):
and we certainly are.
So we have open jobs Apply.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Awesome, awesome.
Well, john, thank you so muchfor being on the show today.
I know your time is veryvaluable, so, again, thank you
so much for being here today.
Greg, thanks for having me Allright, and to all you listeners
out there, I thank you for yourtime as well, and until the next
story.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Thank you for joining us this week on the Leaders in
Payments podcast.
Make sure you visit our websiteat leadersinpaymentscom, where
you can subscribe to the showand where you'll find our show
notes.
If you enjoyed listening,please share on your social
channels as well.
Welcome to the Leaders in Payments podcast,
where we talk to C-level leadersfrom across the payments
landscape.
We'll be discussing theproducts and services that
impact the payment space today,as well as trends and
predictions for the future ofpayments.
We will also hear stories fromour guests about their journeys
to the top.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Leaders in
Payments podcast.
I'm your host, greg Myers, andon today's show we have a very
special guest, john Kaplan, theCEO of Payoneer.
So, john, thank you so much forbeing here and welcome to the
show.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
It's really great to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah, why don't we start out by having you tell our
audience a little bit aboutyourself, maybe where you're
born, where you grew up, whereyou went to school, a few things
like that?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Awesome.
So, born and raised in Green,here in New York City, I've been
an insatiable entrepreneursince childhood.
You know love buildingcompanies, learning about
customers.
So, born and raised in New York, joined Payoneer in May of 2022
.
And I live here in New Yorkwith my wife.
I have two kids, a 20-year-oldand a 24-year-old, and we have
(01:00):
3,700 Payoneer colleagues aroundthe globe.
So I spend most of my timetraveling internationally to
meet with our teams and see ourcustomers and our partners
around the globe.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Okay.
Well, for those in the audiencethat may not know what Payoneer
does, can you just kind of giveus that overview?
We?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
are an awesome company.
We just celebrated our 20thanniversary, actually, which is
an extraordinary accomplishmentfor our fintech.
Payne is a really interestingbusiness.
We solve a problem for globalsmall business owners, which is
we're a foreign bank alternativefor them.
We give them a multi-currencyaccount where they receive their
international accountsreceivable and they use our
(01:39):
accounts payable tools to managetheir operations, and so we
have 2 million active customersin just about every country and
territory on the planet.
We are $80 billion of volumeflowing into paying your
accounts.
So we're a big scaledcross-border payment solution
for small business owners, andthe sort of heartbeat or the
(02:01):
mission of the company is thisidea that ambitious
entrepreneurs don't have all theadvantages that multinational
corporates do.
And if we could give theambitious entrepreneurs of the
world a financial servicessolution with great technology,
ease of use, fast speed andinnovation, as well as lots of
(02:23):
service.
We're on the ground in 30markets, countries around the
globe, in places like Lahore,pakistan, or in Medellin,
colombia, where we're helpingcross-border entrepreneurs
really participate in the globaleconomy.
Payoneer has gone through apretty extraordinary pivot over
the last three years.
We really were the innovatorsand pioneers of the marketplace
(02:46):
payout space right Someoneselling on Amazon or a
freelancer on Fiverr or Upworkneeded to get paid and pay near
solve that problem and thatbuilt the company and took the
company public and when I joinedwe solidified that business and
continue to grow it reallynicely.
And now we're very focused onour B2B business, which is
(03:07):
helping cross-border as you know, cross-border payments between
businesses, and that's one thatthe TAM and SAM are so big.
There's not enough zeros on mycalculator, certainly on my
iPhone, to capture the size ofthe market and we're the market
leader there, providing value inVietnam and in Turkey and in
Australia and Japan and justabout every place you could name
(03:29):
on the planet to helpcross-border SMBs participate in
the global economy.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Okay, are there certain verticals within small
business that you focus more on?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
We have both goods and services companies, right.
So pretty much in our Chinafranchise it's primarily goods
exporters, right?
People who are selling onWalmart or Amazon or eBay or
Etsy or TikTok or Timu or one ofthe big marketplace platforms.
They're goods exporters to theworld, right, china is the
largest manufacturer of exporterof physical goods.
(04:00):
We're the leader in China.
So that's one side of ourbusiness.
The other side, in the services,it's business process
outsourcers in the Philippines,companies that are the call
center for an American business.
Those businesses use Payoneerto receive their payments, get
paid into their Payoneer accountand they use Payoneer to pay
their contractors andfreelancers around the globe.
(04:23):
And companies here in theUnited States.
You know there was one that wasat our 20th anniversary, bo
Pilgrim.
That runs a business inLouisiana that helps insurance
companies in the US outsourcesome of their operations around
the world, and Bo's team usesPayne here to manage their
payments to all theircontractors globally and they
(04:44):
help other insurance agentsaround the US do just the same.
There isn't one size of SMB,there isn't one industry.
It's marketing servicescompanies in Dubai, it's
software developers in Argentinaand BPOs in the Philippines.
And what I think is prettypowerful about that, greg, for
us is because we're so globaland so diverse.
(05:06):
In the last couple of yearsthere's been lots of macro
shocks to the industry and we'vehad which is really frigging
awesome, we've had 16% compoundannual growth since I became CEO
each quarter and that is reallyimpressive when you think about
the size of the global economyand all the shocks that have
happened that we've been able tojust steady our deliver.
(05:28):
That's really a testament tothe pain in your team around the
world.
That's the best people I'veever had a privilege to
collaborate with.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
I want to make sure I understand.
When you're a small business,you set up an account, but it's
not like a checking account, butyou do have money flowing in
and out.
Can maybe you explain that alittle bit Sure?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
So every one of our customers has what I think of as
their analog bank relationshipin their home market, and they
use that to pay their local rent, to buy their local supplies
what have you?
But in most parts of the globeyou're a global company from day
one.
When you get started, you'reeither sourcing supplies or
(06:05):
talent or capability outside ofyour borders, or you're a global
company from day one when youget started.
You're either sourcing suppliesor talent or capability outside
of your borders, or you'reselling your capability outside
of your borders, and when you dothat, you might be getting paid
in dollars or yen or euro orwhat have you.
And your local bank certainlyisn't the solution for that.
So our customers use Payoneeras their international account
to get paid into for theirinternational accounts
(06:25):
receivable, and then those samecustomers have international
accounts payable and what theydo is use Payoneer's credit
cards and debit cards andpayment products to manage those
international expenses.
And, as I said a moment ago, wehave about $80 billion or so
over that coming into thePayoneer accounts and, at last
earnings, we had $7 billion ofcustomer funds held in balance,
(06:49):
and so it just indicates thetrust our 2 million active
customers have in the Payoneerplatform is they're receiving
their funds, they're using it tomanage their accounts payable
and they're holding the fundswith us.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Well, what would you say differentiates you from your
competitors?
Or maybe explain what do peopledo that don't use Payoneer?
How would they accomplish whatyou're talking about?
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yeah, so it's interesting.
It's a great question becausereally we are a seartaker from
local banks at the last mile.
So the network we've built islicenses around the globe,
critically important bankrelationships around the globe,
critically important bankrelationships around the globe
to deliver funds last mile.
A technology stack that enablesrapid, exceptionally fast
(07:33):
movement of funds and moneyaround the globe and a suite of
software products that wraparound that, that make doing
business easy.
And I think you probably wouldagree, the payments market is
big enough that there's enoughat the buffet that everybody can
eat.
So it's not really awinner-take-all market.
It's a focus on segments ofcustomers super serve the hell
(07:55):
out of them, give them what theyneed and they reward you with
their volumes and loyalty, whichobviously delivers for our
shareholders.
We largely take share fromlocal banks.
The alternatives would be touse, frankly, the technology
that existed when our parentswere running businesses 1970s
level, wait three weeks, hope toget paid and pay exorbitant
(08:16):
fees in the process.
We're innovative, at the frontof the market, bringing speed
and convenience to customersaround the globe, and really
really good at doing that.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
And you mentioned earlier that you made a pivot
from the original business.
What drove that decision?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I think pivot it maybe is not exactly the right
word, Chris.
We have this great marketplacepayouts business, which is a
$300 billion market where wehave 20% share, but it's a $300
billion market when you look atthe multi-trillion dollar B2B
payment space, where we havesingle digit share in a few
markets but less than 1% sort ofglobally.
(08:54):
The opportunity for the nextdecade of growth is so
substantial and what we see inour customers is that, as we've
moved up market and what I meanby that is, instead of customers
who are a million dollar a yearturnover businesses to $30
million a year turnoverbusinesses they actually need
more and more of our productsand services.
(09:16):
Our net revenue retention isstronger and stronger with our
larger cohort of customers, andso, by moving into the B2B space
, not only is the addressablesize of the pie bigger, but our
net revenue retention isstronger, Our revenue per
customer is greater and thenumber of products those
customers are using is more andmore, and that really feels like
(09:38):
the powerful part of our valueprop is to support businesses
that are underserved by themultinational banks but have all
the complexity of multinationalcompanies.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Okay, banks, but have all the complexity of
multinational companies.
Okay, and you mentioned earlieryou talked a little bit about,
like, the macro events and howyou guys have been able to push
through those and continue togrow.
But you know, you know, and, asa payments person, one of the
things we always worry about isthe regulatory environment,
compliance, licensing, all ofthose things.
And you guys are not doing thatjust in one country, you're
doing it in all these countries.
(10:12):
So curious is your thoughts onthat how do you manage that big
of an effort?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
You know, we operate in difficult to operate parts of
the globe and do so with a veryintense focus on doing it as
well as we possibly can andimproving.
But we believe our relationshipto regulators and banks is part
of the moat that helps to buildthe brand and trust of Payoneer
, and so we announced that wehad acquired a PSP in China.
(10:39):
That's a strategic move We'veshared that we've applied for
the appropriate licenses andrelationships to continue to
build a regulatory shell aroundPayoneer that our customers and
the partners we do business withcan trust.
And that is a super priority ofours, because I think people
(11:05):
look at the volumes of moneymoving around the globe and
think, oh wow, I want to getmyself a piece of that, but
don't understand theresponsibility that comes with
it.
And we take thoseresponsibilities as deeply
important.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
And you recently had an announcement about your
relationship or partnership withStripe.
Can you talk about that for aminute?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yeah, so this came out of our, if you think, sort
of in a big picture.
We are helping customers whosell on marketplaces Amazon,
ebay, etsy, what have you.
We're helping customers sellB2B, wholesale orders around the
globe, and lots of our globalcustomers actually sell direct
to consumers and we built adirect to consumer checkout
(11:46):
business that got to a billiondollars of volume.
So we saw the product marketfit and the opportunity and the
team leading that effortrecognized that we wanted to
accelerate our capabilitiesreally quickly and the fastest
way to do that was to partnerwith Stripe and leverage their
best-in-class technology withour global distribution and
(12:06):
incredible service model.
And so we've announced that andwe're excited about the
prospect there, which is, youknow, we want 100% of someone's
accounts receivable in theirPayoneer account and 100% of
their accounts payable usingPayoneer tools.
And if building our ecosystemof partnerships with Stripe or
MasterCard or fill in the blankpotential partner, we think
(12:27):
that's a better way to servecustomers.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Well, let's switch gears a little bit and talk
about you.
So, if you don't mind, walk usthrough your career journey how
you got to Payoneer, maybe whereyou started and how you even
got here.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Well, I started on 9th Street in Branch Village in
Washington Square Park, so I wasan English major.
This is a dream come true towork at Payoneer.
It's an extraordinary group ofpeople.
I've been an entrepreneur mywhole life.
I was on the team that helpedcreate Arizona Iced Tea, the
beverage company.
I led marketing for theexpansion of Starbucks across
(12:59):
east of Chicago.
When that was happening.
I was on the team that reallyhelped build and think about
what the first wave of theinternet was.
When I was at Aboutcom in 98, 99, and 2000, which was an
extraordinary journey.
Then went to Ford Models, thefashion talent firm, and
modernized that business, whichwas a really interesting
(13:20):
experience and taught me thevalue of platforms Both.
About was a platform to empowercontent creators.
Ford Models was a platform toempower people in the fashion
industry and then started a firmcalled OpenSky to help small
businesses sell on the internetand ultimately sold that to
Alibaba Group, where I went tolead the modernization
(13:41):
transformation of Alibabacom,which is, you know, when I got
there was $800 million ofrevenue and $200 of EBITDA.
When I left it was $3.5 billionof revenue and $800 of EBITDA.
When I left it was three and ahalf billion of revenue and 800
of EBITDA, really the fastestgrowing, most global part of the
Alibaba franchise.
And that's when I met ScottGallat, who was my predecessor
here, and we were taking a walkin Central Park during COVID,
(14:04):
like two middle-aged dads whoare obsessed with cross-border
trade and small businesses, andwe're taking a walk in the park.
I was like, hey, Scott, youknow, I think I'm leaving
Alibaba.
I'm not sure what I'm going todo next.
And he said, well, why don'tyou take my job?
And I was like that sounds likethe best job in the world.
I'd love it.
And said yes, on the spot.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
That's awesome.
So what was it about?
Payoneer, you so much.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Well, the culture of Painter is extraordinary, right
Like this.
This is a company ofentrepreneurs for entrepreneurs,
and so we are.
You know we have 2 millioncustomers in every, who speak
every language, sleep in everycountry, have grew up in every
tradition you can imagine, sothere's something very
empowering about being inservice of other people who are
(14:48):
trying to make the world abetter place for themselves and
their families.
Like that's just like jump outof bed in the morning stuff.
So that was one.
The second is it's a bigchallenge to join a firm in its
16th, 17th year, responsible formodernizing, transforming it
and re-energizing growth andprofitability in an industry you
haven't worked in before.
(15:10):
It requires an equalcombination of chutzpah, which
is Yiddish for courage, and justcuriosity, and I love helping
other businesses be successful,and at Payoneer we get to touch
lots of companies and help themachieve what they're trying to
achieve, and it's working, whichis really nice.
The team we've assembled hereis a combination of insurgent
(15:34):
entrepreneurs you knowextraordinary payments people,
great deal, makers andinnovators, and the orchestra is
playing pretty nicely togetherthese days, and so I feel like
this next decade for Payne isgoing to be a great one.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
So what are some things you'repassionate about?
Maybe one work-related passionand one personal passion.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
So the work passion for me is I like to champion the
underdogs.
So what we did at Payoneer iswe created a top talent program
where, when I first joined,we're in our third or fourth
cohort, where we take highpotential, high impact people
who are the future leaders ofthe company, that maybelong
(16:16):
curriculum about the company andopportunity to inflect and
influence the business we'rebuilding.
And it's cross-functional, it'sglobal.
So your people from Vietnam andBrazil and China and Israel and
the US all coming together as acohort to grow and I love that
and I think it's awesome andit's customer-centric and
employee-centric and it's, Ithink, showing really great
(16:37):
progress for us.
Centric and employee centricand it's, I think, showing
really great progress for us.
And outside of work, besides myfamily and my kids, which I
adore, I'm someone who likes tospend a lot of time in museums
and explore art and creativityand understand the creative
process and where people seekinspiration and how they take
that inspiration to createthings.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
So when you travel, do you take extra time to visit
places like that?
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I do.
I actually do.
If I'm lucky, I try to get anhour in whatever museum,
wherever I am in the world Inthe next couple of weeks.
I'll be in Boston, london, TelAviv and San Francisco in the
next three weeks, and so I'mhoping that there'll be a
45-minute pit stop along the wayin each of those destinations.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Nice, nice.
Well, john, if someone comes toyou and they're interested in
maybe a career change intopayments or maybe they've just
graduated from college, theylook at fintech as an exciting
industry and they want to builda career there what kind of
advice would you give them tohelp them be successful?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
I think the first thing is there is no substitute
for really studying and learningand being curious, right.
So I think the paymentsindustry is, in a funny way,
kind of insular, where paymentspeople only talk to payments
people, and I actually think theindustry benefits when career
switchers come in and learn andthen ask why.
(17:57):
Career switchers come in andlearn and then ask why, keep
asking why, why do we do it thisway, why is the firm set, why
were these the rules?
And that's one of the reasons Ithink the stable coin
innovation is pretty excitingbecause some of those innovators
now in the context of theGenius Act have been asking why
and talking about innovativesolutions that may bring value
to customers.
In the past that hasn't beenthere and those why questions, I
(18:20):
think, lead to breakthroughs.
So everyone I think I wouldsuggest is you know and then
listen more than you speak inthe beginning.
It's always you save yourpowder for when you know what
you're talking about, not forwhen you're, you know, shooting
from the hip.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Well, one final question before we go.
Let's talk about the future alittle bit.
Where do you see paymentsheaded?
Where do you see Payoneerheaded?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Just curious about your outlook on the future
thinks about the pipes and theplumbing until they stop working
, and I actually think paymentscan be a lot more than pipes and
plumbing.
It can be value accretive tocustomers and we're certainly
(19:03):
seeing that in our business whenwe see our net revenue.
Retention numbers for our bestcohorts of customers are really
strong, and they're strongbecause they're using both
payment rails and softwaretogether, and so I think the
sort of narrow definition ofwhat a payments firm is, I think
, is probably long-term going toexpand more broadly.
(19:23):
So that'd be one area.
Another is certainly in theinnovation in stable coins and
blockchain technology fortreasury.
Work, I think, is we've sharedin our last earnings.
We're leveraging our massivescale and incredible last mile
to begin to explore ways todeploy things in a pragmatic way
, and that's underway.
I think that's exciting.
We've added a workforcemanagement component to our
(19:46):
offering, which is fantastic,where we're actually helping
people manage the employees andcontractors outside of their
home market in a way that showsyou can do business globally
with your payments and youremployees in one platform at
Payoneer.
I think that's pretty excitingfor us.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Okay, all right.
Well, john, before we wrap up,just want to open the floor, see
if there's anything we may havemissed, anything else you
wanted to cover before we closedup the show?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yeah, I think one of the things about Payoneer and
certainly my approach and ourapproach at Payoneer has been
this sort of innovation agendais in full swing here and taking
a business like Payoneer thathad experienced hyper growth
through the pandemic and then 5%growth right after we
re-accelerated that 24 or 20%growth business, we were solidly
(20:37):
a mid-teens grower in the firsthalf of this year and, given
all the macro dynamics that havegone on with tariffs and the
like, we feel really great aboutour execution and performance
and for the young people who arepaying attention out there, the
water is warm up into payments.
It's a lot of fun here, even ifyou come from outside the
industry, because they're smartpeople looking for creativity
(20:59):
and we certainly are.
So we have open jobs Apply.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Awesome, awesome.
Well, john, thank you so muchfor being on the show today.
I know your time is veryvaluable, so, again, thank you
so much for being here today.
Greg, thanks for having me Allright, and to all you listeners
out there, I thank you for yourtime as well, and until the next
story.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Thank you for joining us this week on the Leaders in
Payments podcast.
Make sure you visit our websiteat leadersinpaymentscom, where
you can subscribe to the showand where you'll find our show
notes.
If you enjoyed listening,please share on your social
channels as well.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.