November 2, 2025 • 40 mins
Are you feeling disconnected? In a world struggling with an epidemic of loneliness, building a strong social network is no longer a "nice-to-have"—it's essential for your health. Science shows that deep social bonds can lower stress, improve your immune system, and even help you live longer. But how do you build friendships that last, especially when life gets busy?
In this powerful episode, I sit down with Shawn Blankenship, Joe Gorley, and Che Jansen—three men who have nurtured a deep brotherhood for nearly 40 years. Forged in their college days as members of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc., their bond provides a practical, inspiring blueprint for anyone looking to build deeper connections. This isn't just theory; it's a real-life masterclass in loyalty, vulnerability, and showing up.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- The practical, intentional habits that hold a 35+ year friendship together
- How support evolves: from 20-something fun to 50-something men's health accountability
- Why vulnerability, authenticity, and "accountability through love" are the non-negotiable glue
- The "hidden" wellness benefits of true friendship: genuine joy, deep comfort, and feeling truly re-energized
- The single most important, practical step you can take this week to start building your own network
This conversation is a powerful reminder that our best life is not built alone.
Get exclusive listener discounts at mydeals.page/jhrt Click any deal, and the code LIFEPODCAST applies automatically at checkout to save you money and support the show.
Thank you for listening! We'd love to hear from you!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr C (00:02):
Hola, and welcome back to the Life Podcast where we
explore how to learn, inspire,flourish, and evolve into our
best, most authentic selves.
I'm your host, Dr.
Steve, and today we're talkingabout emotional and social
wellness.
I want you to think about aquestion.
Who do you call at 3 a.m.?
Not just when things somethingis wrong, but when something is
(00:22):
amazing.
Who in your life has seen youat your worst and still
celebrates you at your best?
In our hyper-connected,digitally saturated world, many
of us are feeling profoundlydisconnected.
The Surgeon General has evendeclared loneliness a public
health epidemic, citing researchthat chronic loneliness can be
(00:43):
detrimental to our health assmoking 15 cigarettes a day.
But today, today, we're talkingabout the antidote.
We're exploring the profoundwellness benefits of a strong,
lifelong social network.
And I'm not just talking abouttheory.
I have brought on threeincredible graphs who are living
the living embodiment of thisprinciple.
Today, we're joined by SeanBlinkenship, Joe Gorley, and
(01:06):
Shay Jansen.
These three men areaccomplished professionals,
husbands, and fathers.
But they are also brothers.
They formed their bond over 35years ago at the University of
Dayton as they were becomingmembers of the Gamma Theta
chapter of Alpha by AlphaFraternity Incorporated.
And today they're going toshare what it takes to build a
(01:30):
brotherhood that lasts of like alifetime.
Sean, Joe, and Shay, welcome tothe Life Podcast.
Thank you, Doc Lady.
Thanks for having us.
Yes, you're welcome.
So 35 years of friendship is anincredible milestone.
So let's set the stage for ourlisteners.
And Shay, I'll start with you.
How would you describe thefeeling of this brotherhood in
(01:52):
one word or one phrase?
Che Jansen (01:54):
One word is tough, but I would say in in probably
the most boring fashionpossible, unique.
And when I say unique, it'sbecause it's, you know, probably
not the most descriptive word,but we understand that we share
something that not everybodyhas, right?
We've talked about it atlength, about the fact that, you
(02:17):
know, there are other people inour same or similar situation,
fraternity brothers, but theydon't necessarily have what it
is that we've cultivated overmore than three decades, which
is an everyday type ofrelationship that we benefit
from on a daily basis.
(02:38):
And so that's what I believe wefind to be unique.
And I know just in our youknow, our conversation prior to
this, that we'll get into someof the details of why that is,
but we certainly cultivate it.
We understand that it'ssomething we need to feed.
Uh, and so we've developed ituh over the years.
Dr C (02:55):
Yeah.
So that's the intentionality ofmaking sure that you're
building as you go.
So Joe and Sean, what what whatdo you think about what Shay
just described?
Shawn Blankenship (03:03):
You know, I I think to build upon cultivation
and intentionality is exactlythe right word.
There's also a lot of the wordthat comes to mind is
accountability.
And we look at each other notonly just as black men, we look
at each other as fathers, youknow, uh husbands, you name it.
And with that isaccountability.
So I we talk family.
(03:24):
This is family.
It's like you feel you'reaccountable to your parents,
your your siblings, whatever itmay be.
I'm accountable to Shane andJoe as well.
And so I that's always the backof my mind.
With the actions, with thesetwo look at me and say, damn,
why are you doing that?
Dr C (03:37):
Yes.
Joe, what do you think aboutthat?
Joe Gorley (03:39):
You know, when I think about these brothers, and
I do call them brothers in therealistic portion of it, is you
know, we've grown together.
We don't it's just nurture arelationship that we had in
college.
Our relationship has grown.
So I know Sean's daughter, Iknow Shay's family, and and we
spent time to this family.
And I think that's important.
A relationship can't staystagnant, it can't be 1990 again
(03:59):
forever, right?
Where are we now?
And I think that accountabilityhas to do with it.
Yeah, I think it's alsorespectability, just enjoying
being around each other, Ithink, is very critical.
Dr C (04:08):
I love that.
I love that.
And so we all face intensestress, right?
So we know that no matter whatyou do, there are going to be
challenges in life, whether it'sfrom our career, our families,
or just life life.
So, Sean, can you share aspecific time where knowing this
brotherhood had your backdirectly lowered your stress or
helped you through a major lifechallenge?
Shawn Blankenship (04:30):
Oh yeah.
Joe Silavino's my daughter,like, you know, in the
traditional sense of the word, II uh have a child at the time,
I have a lot, right?
Uh, and it wasn't necessarilyplanned, per se, right?
And as I look at that in thatsituation, you know, there's a
level of disappointment.
You know, you feel it becauseit wasn't planned.
(04:50):
And how do I go with my parentsand talked about it?
These two were were a sound onthe board for me before my
parents knew I had a baby on theway they knew, because I had,
you know, we may depend on howfar the conversation was, we may
talk about our different rolesin this relationship, this
friendship, and we we all havedifferent roles in this
friendship.
And Shay's like the mature one.
(05:11):
So I was like, I gotta go tothis guy.
Shea's, you know, whatever agehe was at that time, 30, but the
maturity of a 50-year-old.
So I think he helps me set thestage in my concerns, my my
fears, and says, Well, at theend of the day, Joe says, You
got me accountable.
You know, so that made me feellike it's gonna be okay, you
(05:32):
know.
My parents are gonna love meany less.
I'm not a bad person for makinga decision or something
happened to like that happenedto me.
It gave me the confidence to gobe the best father I can be.
Dr C (05:41):
Wow, that's amazing.
Accountability through love,right?
Shawn Blankenship (05:46):
Through love.
It's never a judgment zone withus.
Like I don't I'll never look toJoe and judge him for something
or shade and judge, and I don'tthink they've ever looked at me
that way.
And we or maybe little things.
Che Jansen (05:58):
Yeah, we'll talk for a bad choice on that shirt.
Dr C (06:02):
You gotta hold people accountable for a bad shirt.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I mean, look at yeah, statements.
We'll talk later.
Shawn Blankenship (06:09):
Yeah, it's and even when you do get
critical love from us, it comesfrom a place of love, it's not
of wanting to make you feelbetter to put you down.
So when you get that trust andconfidence, it gives you the
courage to feel like it's gonnabe okay.
So these guys are doing thatfor me.
Yeah, that's a strong supportsystem.
Dr C (06:26):
Yeah, for sure.
And so they've known yourdaughter Shannon for for since
she was born, right?
Or in the belly, as they say.
Yeah, in the belly.
Shawn Blankenship (06:32):
That was the first one of us that had kids.
So yeah.
Wow, wow.
Dr C (06:35):
And then were you at the hospital?
I mean, like, how did how whenShannon was born?
How did you, Joe, and and Shaykind of uh experience that with
Sean?
I thought I had the greatestSean story ever.
Joe Gorley (06:47):
Tell me.
So we came, me and my wife, wecame to see Sean and meet
Shannon, right?
And Shannon was in the uh ahigh chair, that's what you call
it, eating.
And so she's eating and she hasall the stuff on her shirt.
So, like the good dad does,instead of the wife with the
shirt, I mean she took her shirtoff.
Dr C (07:06):
Right, just take the shirt off.
Joe Gorley (07:09):
So that's what I remember the most.
You know, today I still I lookat the woman that Shannon become
father that Sean is and all histhing.
I I snit her at that.
It just shows you how uh howmen handle men's stuff.
Right.
Dr C (07:22):
And and Shannon is an amazing young woman.
And so great job with her.
And I know that Shay and Joe,she she sees them as their
uncles, and she talks veryhighly about her relationship
with Shay and Joe.
And the relationship that thethree of you have has also
impacted her.
I'm not speaking for her, Icould just conversation that me
and her have had, it's impactedher positively, right?
(07:44):
And so that's always great tosee.
Che Jansen (07:45):
Yeah, it's exposed her to a level of crazy that I'm
sure it needs to be your three.
Dr C (07:53):
Everybody needs that in their little bit younger.
So, Joe, you mentioned earlierthat you can't stay in 1990,
right?
You can't be a 19, 20-year-oldforever.
So I'm curious how the supporthas changed and the challenges
of a 20-year-old is totallydifferent than the challenges of
a 50-year-old.
(08:14):
Right?
So, how has the way you supporteach other's well-being evolved
over, you know, since yourcollege days?
Gotcha.
Joe Gorley (08:22):
That's a great question.
And I think part of it is wedon't like to see each other
every day, uh, but we alwaysknow when to call.
I don't know what that is, kindof mystical about that.
You always get a call and Ineed that.
And I think it starts withrespect, right?
And when you have someone thatyou respect immensely, you love
that crook out of me.
You want it, right?
I want to, I want to make theseguys proud.
And so as we've got older, Iuse these guys as sounding
(08:44):
boards, and not just, you know,uh politics and those types of
things, but you know, fan thingsand this man stuff and you know
how you're feeling, and thatwe're not afraid to talk about
those feelings and things.
So I guess it changed frombasically having fun to not
gonna be around each otherplaying sports or those types of
things, to really being asupport network about the
holistic self, our entire self,right?
(09:04):
And if if you don't share yourentire soap with somebody,
you're not gonna get somebody'sentire soul back.
So if you really want that typeof intimacy, I guess if you
will, in regards to friendship,project, brotherhood, you're
gonna have to share it and get.
And I think that's important.
Dr C (09:18):
That is important.
Can I build another one?
Shawn Blankenship (09:20):
Absolutely.
Then I'm gonna give you aspecific example that you know
where I'm probably going withthis joke.
I was I it's crazy.
Joe is of the three of us, hasbeen the biggest proponent of
men's health.
Joe is of the three of us.
Like, I tend to, and I don'twant to stare that, don't be
talking shit about this, but wetend to have aches and pains
with one off.
Joe was on, like, his men'shealth, all those things.
(09:43):
And he and I had a conversationone day, and the
accountability, I keep startingback to that work.
We had a conversation, andyou're on board, right?
And he was like, he was talkingabout his phone out.
I said, Oh man, I'm not tryingto do all that, blah blah blah
blah, whatever.
Yeah, you were saying, Sean, uhhuh.
He said, You owe it toyourself, your daughter, your
family.
It's what men do.
Oh he told me it's counting,and it's so funny.
(10:05):
After I got done having it, mymind tell me first person I
call, didn't call my mom, youdidn't call Shan, I called Joe.
I was so friggin' proud.
I said, Joe, I got no phoneasking me.
Wow.
He was so proud of me.
I was super happy.
Yeah, yeah, it was.
I won't go to a funeral, right?
Dr C (10:22):
You're right, you're right, absolutely.
Che Jansen (10:23):
I I echo that a thousand percent, and I think
that when you respect people,and we definitely respect one
another, it allows you to seethat you don't have to, I don't
have to live through somethingfirsthand in order to learn from
it.
I'm definitely gonna take Joe'sknowledge because I respect him
(10:43):
so much.
I'm gonna take Sean'sexperiences and knowledge, and
I'm gonna incorporate that intothe way that I live.
So, you know, Joe uh called meone day, as Joe calls.
We'll talk about that.
What you doing, Joe?
I'm out here walking.
You know you gotta walk, right?
Dr C (11:02):
You gotta walk, man.
That's right.
Che Jansen (11:05):
Now, it may have been 10 o'clock at night.
Dr C (11:07):
Joe walks a lot of times.
Che Jansen (11:12):
But you know, so I have in and not to the level
that he does, but I'veincorporated that into my game.
Like, okay, you know, he'sright.
And I can make time.
I mean, the something that Joeis really good at is saying, I'm
gonna do something, and thenmaking, setting aside the time
to do it.
And I so I think I I believe weall listen to one another, hear
(11:35):
what is going on, and and like,okay, how can I learn from
that?
How can I improve myself basedon you know what my brother is
doing because it's making animprovement in his life?
Dr C (11:45):
Yeah.
So it's like birds of a featherflock together, right?
I think growing up, it's yourparents telling you, you become
who you hang out with, right?
And so I I see We talked aboutthat last night.
You had this conversation lastnight.
Interesting.
So you become who you, youknow, your environment is very
important, and who you bringinto that environment is very
(12:07):
important as well.
So what I'm seeing is thislevel of accountability that
comes out of love, that comesout of you all being vulnerable
and transparent enough to say, Itrust you, and I'm gonna trust
you with everything that I have,everything that I am, so that
you can then continue to pourinto me.
And and I every time I've beenaround the three of you, I've
(12:27):
always felt a sense ofauthenticity, serious, serious
love, and accountability to likethe highest power, right?
And and that's always beenvery, it's always left an
impression on me.
And me and Rod always talkabout it when we leave.
I'm like, man, they're they'resome crazy guys, fun, you know,
but I love the brotherhood.
I love the authenticity thatyou all share with each other.
(12:51):
Can I make a comment aboutthat?
Absolutely.
Che Jansen (12:54):
And I apologize for cutting you off before your
question, but when you describeto us what the health benefit
that you wanted to get from thisconversation, something that
struck me is that authenticity,right?
You cannot receive the benefitof friendship if you're hiding
(13:14):
something, if you're not beingyour true self.
I would say the one thing thathas sustained us for, you know,
we have been friends close to 30or close to 40 years in total
now, is that we come to theparty as us.
You know.
Dr C (13:36):
It's not coming.
Che Jansen (13:43):
But what's great is that we, you know, we don't have
to dress up.
We don't have to put anythingon.
Whenever we talk, whenever weshare it, if something's
hurting, we let them know it'shurting.
If we're not happy aboutsomething, we let them know
that.
If if something hasn't goneright, you know, we've we've
(14:06):
gone through job losses,businesses not going right, all
that stuff.
But I know I could just say it.
You know, why why hide it?
And they're gonna not onlyaccept whatever it is for what
it is, but they're gonna try anddo their best to help me with
it.
And I think we all feel thatway.
Dr C (14:28):
We'll see.
Che Jansen (14:28):
Yeah, we'll see.
Dr C (14:30):
Okay, great.
Thank you for that.
So beyond the obvious supportduring a crisis, I'm curious to
know what's a hidden wellnessbenefit you get from this bond?
So let's start with you, Shay.
I know you you started talkingabout that, but is there a
tangible wellness benefit thatyou get from your brothers from
being in these relationships?
Che Jansen (14:51):
Well, the obvious one for me is joy.
So invariably, we laugh a lot.
Hopefully, it will come throughin this podcast.
Um we love to laugh and have agood time.
So very few conversations thatare I don't want to say serious,
because we have serious uhdiscussions, but we treat things
(15:15):
with humor.
I think that is our lovelanguage among each other.
You know, whether it is thecolonoscopy thing or somebody's
having a health issue.
I was just telling you beforewe started about me having back
pain uh and going for a massage,and it becomes a comedy
routine.
Sean is doing his best not tocrack it.
(15:35):
But uh, but that's how we roll.
It is, you know, we laugh, jokecalls, and if I'm in the car
with my son, my son startscracking up because he knows
something funny is about and andI love that, you know.
(15:56):
If nothing else, sometimes, youknow, I I wonder, could I what
would life be without Sean John?
Like if I'm the one that livesoutside of the city of
Cleveland, so I don't get to seethem as often as they might see
each other, but we talk all thetime.
But the one thing that I I needis that levity that they bring
(16:21):
to my life and to everysituation.
I know if if something's heavy,all I gotta do is get on the
phone with them, and soon I'mgonna be laughing about it.
Dr C (16:28):
Wow, that's amazing.
That laughter is the bestmedicine, right?
So, Joe, what are your thoughtson your hidden benefit,
wellness benefit that you getout of this relationship?
Joe Gorley (16:38):
That's a good question.
I and I was trying to changefor your chicken because he's
older.
And I was like, Works that Iuse some fancy words and
whatever.
But what I what I think aboutis at the end of it, like when I
wake up on Monday and I'm gonnago to work and do the
professional joke, I'mrefreshed.
For lack of a better word.
Feels like I just, you know,it's like refreshed.
(16:58):
It's like if I don't sound likepart of your medicine routine.
Like every now and then we meetthis kind of de-stressor and
Mr.
Fun and the unabridgedconversations and those types of
things.
So to me, it it's like arefresher.
It's like a little uh hospicealmost like you can get away,
relax a little bit and I can goback to the room.
Dr C (17:17):
Wow.
So you're re-energized everytime you're with your brothers.
Joe Gorley (17:22):
Rededicated, actually.
A lot of uh other things thathappen that Monday.
It's like, you know what?
They're doing good, I gotta dobetter.
Cool.
Have fun, you know, but hey,this is what I want to do.
And they talk about aretirement plan.
Let's say my retirement plan.
It's not just a competitionthing, but again, it's that
accountability to the point ofat the end of it, I I can
imagine us, you know, 10 yearsfrom now being retired, still
(17:43):
doing the same type of things.
And yeah, and then you can stepthat game up a little bit,
hopefully.
So those are the I just there-energy is really key for me.
Dr C (17:51):
I love that.
What about you, Sean?
Shawn Blankenship (17:54):
Comfort.
You know, it's it's maybe a manthing.
I'll be a little bit morespecific to say a black male
thing.
The weight of the world is onyour shoulders, and sometimes
men internalize and distress atthe point of the podcast.
When you have folks that youcan talk to, and you know,
especially guys, I know we haveyou know significant others in
(18:16):
our lives, our wives, whatever,they they they get are still
support, right?
And it can be the the theshoulder.
But sometimes those man thingsand sometimes you're afraid to
talk to a man about it.
And when you have two guys thatyou can talk to, and it's like
again, zone, I can becomfortable, I can be
vulnerable, and and reallyturning you struggle with the
weak, you know, quote unquote,and you know there's gonna be no
(18:39):
bullback.
Oh man, this guy's on oh man,you got shot, Jesus Christ.
What's up?
No, I love you.
This is what you should do.
And this stuff Joe just talkedabout, like that comfort of like
I'm good.
I can I almost recalibrate alittle bit and I can't do it
because not only are we beholdento ourselves, but not almost
crazy old guys.
Uh but we have the youngergeneration.
(18:59):
How do we help them?
So as we go to form ourrelationships, then we start
trying to teach the youngerfolks coming behind us, be our
cousins, our sons, our nephews,close friends, whatever.
Like a lot of us mentor youngmen, young black men.
We get to be the model for themand the comfort that I can
continue to do in with thesefolks and be vulnerable, and
then they accept me for who Iam, and vice versa, gives me the
(19:21):
energy to keep going, A, andthen B, you know, share that
with the folks who behind.
Dr C (19:27):
Wow.
I and I didn't even think abouteach one's each one, right?
How how this brotherhood andhow your relationship and and
all the benefits of it, how itcan really be an example to
younger individuals and how theyform relationships and how
intentional they are whenthey're choosing their social
(19:48):
network, right?
Choosing their brothers orchoosing their support network.
So we know friendships fade,and and Shay, you kind of
touched on this.
And it's one of life's hardtruths.
We know that people get busy,they move away, they drift,
life, life, life is lifing, andby the time you know it, six
months have passed, or maybe ayear.
(20:09):
So you three have activelyprevented that over the last
three decades, right?
Show uh, sorry, Joe and Sean,you both live in the same city,
as you said, Shay, and and youdon't.
So, Shay, what are thepractical, intentional things
you do to maintain thisconnection?
What's the glue?
Che Jansen (20:29):
Short answer to the glue is Joe.
Oh, okay.
Because Joe is always, youknow, Joe's not gonna let but so
much time go by before you'regonna get a call.
Okay.
And and and then his Joe voice.
Hey, what's the but the otherthing is that the three of us
together, you know, we at whenwe were in our 20s, we didn't
(20:52):
really keep score, but at somepoint we said, you know, we've
gotten together at least once ayear, every year since we've
known each other.
Dr C (21:00):
That was intentional or not intentional?
Che Jansen (21:02):
Before you Well, before we came to before we had
that discussion, it wasn'tintentional.
Just, you know, we somehow justmade sure we had that
connection.
Since that time, we'vedefinitely made sure at some
point we're gonna see eachother.
And then as life has gone onand we've had families and
stuff, you know, there's stufffor the kids that happens.
(21:25):
Hey, gotta be there.
You know, we make sure thatwe're intentional about hitting
those milestones with oneanother.
You know, one of the greatthings about our relationship is
that so I have two sons, eachof them has one daughter.
My oldest son happens to beSean's daughter's age, my
(21:47):
younger son happens to be Joe'sdaughter's age.
Oh wow.
And they have their ownseparate relationships.
Dr C (21:53):
They grew up like cousins, right?
Because I I hear I hear Shannonsaying my cousins, I hear, you
know, so exactly.
Che Jansen (21:59):
And so, you know, my son's birthday is tomorrow, but
he's having his his 16thbirthday party in a couple
weeks.
Joe's daughter will be there.
Um and you know, just a week orso ago, Shannon was traveling,
Sean's daughter was travelingfor work uh and was in the city
where my son currently lives.
And we both asked them to takepictures each other, and neither
(22:21):
one of them sent pictures.
But they do their own thing,and that's an amazing legacy.
I love it.
And but to answer your questionsuccinctly, it's connection.
You you you must be intentionalabout that connection.
Like you said, if you're notintentional, then time goes by
and you're like, wow, you know,I haven't seen such and such in
(22:42):
so long.
But in order to get thosehealth benefits of relationship,
I believe there has to befrequency.
Right?
You know, you you can't takemedicine once every other year
and expect it to look things upeasy.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Che Jansen (22:59):
You know, you gotta you gotta, you know, invest that
time to get the benefit.
Dr C (23:04):
Yeah, yeah.
Wow.
So let's move into navigatingconflict because there's no
perfect bond, right?
And healthy relationshipsrequire navigating conflicts.
So, Sean, can you share a timeor a general rule how you handle
disagreements or hold eachother accountable?
Shawn Blankenship (23:23):
Hmm.
I think, you know, in alltransparency, we've never had a
knockdown like rides was upseteither, right?
We'll have a role of littlethings.
But what I do think to answerthe question would be that
anything I ever would agreedisagree with them or give them
(23:43):
feedback on, they know that itcomes from a place of love and
concern and honesty.
It's not from a place of anyhidden agendas, it's uh we're
pretty direct, like you know,like any direct but with love.
Like, you know, Shay's I goingback, we all have like we have
(24:05):
about the glue in the previousquestion.
Joe is the glue.
And I as I mentioned I kind ofhinted earlier, we all have
roles, and like Shay's like thesage.
I I you know, I think we kindof go to Shay because he just uh
me and Joe will tend to be alittle more, a little more
silly, a little more sophomore.
Yeah, we're an album energyguy, he's the glue, he he's the
(24:25):
the he's the voice for reason.
And to go to him and getfeedback and and he's always
comes from a good place.
And when I it's not justfeedback, because I it can be
something if if I'm you knowfrustrated with you know, we
don't get frustrated with eachother because again, we don't
probably go, we're not in eachother's lives enough to be on
(24:46):
each other's nerves.
So it's more about the ideologybecause over the course of our
30 plus years together, have wehad some things, of course, we
have brought you right and beatJoe up and Tim on his way.
Dr C (24:58):
Um Joe the glue who gets beat up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shawn Blankenship (25:06):
Um when it comes down to giving that
feedback, it is always from aplace of because I love you and
I care about you.
It's never of you're wrong,you're bad, it's how you're it's
impacting me.
And I'm doing this because Ilove you.
And you know, I think because Iit goes back to that kind of
(25:27):
building, I keep it's gonna be aconcurrent theme in this
podcast, right?
I'm afraid to let them down.
So shit, shit to be pissed atme.
I don't.
I'll feel bad.
Or if Joe's mad at me, like Joeand I talk a lot, like Joe, he
and I, Joe takes these damn 11p.m.
walks uh to his neighborhood,and he'll call you.
And it's like if he's takingthe time to do that, he lets him
down.
Yeah.
So I avoid conflict by tryingto make sure I'm super
(25:51):
accountable to him.
But if there is one, it justcomes from a place of love.
You just say, listen, this isunacceptable.
You're better than this.
We have a brand that hasZagawa, our line name, as Gamma
Theta, our chapter name, and asMyth, our last name.
Dr C (26:06):
Thank you for that.
Joe Gorley (26:07):
Yeah, I yeah, I was thinking about that, reflecting
here, because it sounds kind ofwhack and authentic.
Right.
But I don't think you've everhad a drawn out, I'm not talking
to you out of anger, thing.
Which is odd.
I know it's odd, and it soundslike you know, not authentic,
but I'm trying to reflect on itbecause I think I owe you the
(26:27):
the authenticity here.
I can't I can't remember it.
That's been frustrations andwe'll have a a knop-out debate
about the Browns or you know,we'll do all that stuff and
we'll we'll talk politics andand those types of things.
But it's um it's can bepassionate, but I've never gone
away and say, man, that I don'tthat guy that made me feel bad
or I just I just never had that.
(26:48):
Yeah I don't know.
I think that is unique, butI've never not talked to these
guys intentions because I wasmad.
I just can't, I just I justhaven't had it just haven't
happened.
Dr C (26:57):
So I wonder if that storming, right, happened when
you guys were in maybe incollege, maybe during your your
process, and then after you uhentered Alpha Phi Alpha, I
wonder if that was already kindof done, right?
The the whole competition, theconflict, the the feeling like,
oh, he's saying that because ofsomething else, or feeling
(27:19):
jealousy or anything like that.
Maybe all that was kind ofworked out as you guys your bond
grew while you were, you know,going through your college days
and maybe through your processof becoming brothers.
Maybe what do you think?
Joe Gorley (27:37):
Maybe.
You know, I have to look I Iwant to noodle that a little
bit.
I think I have to noodle thatto give it a the fair
assessment.
I think at the end of the day,or when I think about um upset
about these guys, if if I'mupset with them, I'm gonna be
thinking when I do it wrong.
Because I think it's it'slegitimate from a place of love
(28:01):
and those types of things.
So if I can imagine these guys,like when I think about
friends, and I have friends likewell, or you know, you have
associates, but then you dothings with and you have
associates because you do thesame activity or that's golf and
it's cars or whatever.
But you know, when you havereal friends, and that friend
can that friend will come from aplace and say, hey man, you
know what?
I think you shouldn't do that.
(28:22):
I think you shouldn't drive, Ithink you shouldn't miss.
I think you you know I don'tlike how you talk to your wife a
little bit.
You know, you might want tocheck that a little bit,
whatever those types of things,and and you can't get mad at
that if you believe you trulybelieve it is coming from a
place of of sincerity andlegitimate.
Che Jansen (28:38):
I I would add one other thing.
I think it helps that there'sthree of us.
I think that and again, I don'tthink that there's been any
like big issues that we've, youknow, but I I can if Joe you
know might call me and say, Hey,have you talked to Sean a
(29:01):
minute?
No, I really haven't.
You know, he's tripping.
Like, where where's he been?
Or whatever.
And we talk it out like eachother, but then we'll both call
him.
Right, right, right.
Dr C (29:11):
What's going on?
So you guys are triaging,right?
And then and then holding eachother accountable to make it am
I am I tripping?
No, you're not tripping.
Che Jansen (29:20):
Okay, let's reach out to him.
Right, right, yeah, and we'renot kibbitching around by each
other's backing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We're like literally likelooking at like, hey man, I
can't talk to you.
Where's that fellow?
Dr C (29:31):
Where's that young man at?
Shawn Blankenship (29:32):
And you things are dressed up as like
you have to be part of theconversation.
I've had this conversationbefore, and you know, I I took
travel a bit for work and dothis, that, the other third, and
especially when you know mydaughter's young, she was coming
up, you get wrapped up in thisworld, right?
And not that I don't loveanybody else, but the day to day
you can catch it, like youtalked about, right?
And say, Hey, not even good ifhe did this.
He's not telling me, you know,it's not do this, but he's
(29:55):
indirectly telling me this iswhat we need from you, and
you're not hungry in the bar ofhis ass.
So accountants are voiding.
Right?
It goes back to thataccountability.
And the only thing I'm gonnaadd, like, you know, we we'd had
this conversation.
You look, if you took like a ananalysis of the Janssen family,
the Blinkster family, and theGroley family, they're very
similar.
You know, and when you talkabout when like you know, uh
(30:19):
both our parents are for bothour parents in the house.
So with that sense ofaccountability, like the
expectations that are put uponyou when you come from, you
know, strong, strong family,strong sinner.
I know both their parents.
Strong, strong, right?
Expectations, it felt like youtalked about it earlier, you
know, like you are who you hangout with, you are who raise you.
(30:40):
So there's that level ofaccountability that we all feel
with our families, and then whenthey come out of that family,
it's so you know, I don't reallyargue with my sister.
You know, yeah, because there'sa lot of accountability that
you have to look first yourselfbefore you look at the other
folks' folks' actions.
I think we've grounded in thattoo.
Dr C (30:57):
I love that.
Che Jansen (30:58):
And when you're direct with people, that tends
to avoid a lot of conflict, likeyou know, passive aggressive.
If if and it it's if it'ssomething like, you know, hey,
you know, you're you're beingtoo hard on your child, or
you're, you know, give yourchild some independence, some
(31:18):
space to do their thing, we'lljust come out and say it.
You know?
We we may again say it in a ina humorous way, but I think
we've known each other longenough to to get through the
code words.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Right, right, right, right.
Che Jansen (31:36):
He's saying, okay, he's telling me ease up.
Dr C (31:38):
Yeah.
All right.
And and so I love that you talkabout the the humor, right?
The humor that you all kind ofyou said that's your love
language, right?
Laughter is your love language,humor is your love language.
And it's interesting to to hearthat because I see it, right?
So I've been around you guysfor a couple of years now and
and hanging out with y'all andhaving a great time and all
(32:00):
that, but I I see the lovethrough your humor.
And when you're cracking oneach other and making jokes
about each other, you know, it'sit's funny, but I never felt
like, ooh, ooh, did he reallysay that?
Like I always I instinctivelyknew that it was out of love.
It was just a humorous, youknow, crack.
(32:20):
And no, none of you changed,you know, your your your face,
your attitude.
It was just like you took it,you understood it, and you kept
it moving.
So, you know, laughter is thebest medicine, and you guys
really have have like perfectedthat.
Che Jansen (32:37):
I appreciate it too, but I will say that that's an
area, a growth area, right?
And I think like with with anyor with most groups of guys,
there are times when you end upbeing the butt of the joke,
maybe through a fault of yourown, maybe through no fault of
your own.
Dr C (32:57):
Maybe it's the shirt you wear.
Che Jansen (33:01):
And everybody piles on, right?
So you may not you may have oneof us may have started it, but
somebody else jumped in and thennext thing you know.
And so I think all of us havebeen in that area.
Joe, Joe makes this face thatwe call the Joe face.
And and so, you know, we'vewe've been there when it
(33:22):
probably goes too far, but we'velearned how to reel yourself
back in.
Yeah, and and how to how to uhuh you know kind of cut it off
when it's it's getting toanother point.
All right, you know, he's hadenough.
But we've won.
Leave him alone, leave himalone.
Maybe bear it next time.
Dr C (33:43):
So so as we wrap up, many of our listeners are feeling
inspired by your by yourbrotherhood, but might also be
feeling lonely.
So for someone who's feelingdisconnected, what is the first
smallest, most practical stepthey can take this week to start
deepening their own socialnetwork?
Joe Gorley (34:01):
Risk.
Dr C (34:02):
Risk.
Please tell me more.
Joe Gorley (34:04):
Learn how to accept risk.
It's harder, right?
And that's one of the it's notit's not in the nature.
Most people aren't don't acceptrisk, right?
It's not like in the nature ofraising conservative and scared
of change.
But you have to risk somethingif you want something, right?
And so that person that worksand you have a water cooler kind
of conversation with, maybe goto lunch, maybe have a coffee,
(34:24):
do something low risk, but kindof risk something that to see if
you can get a relationship withsomebody that you can share and
cultivate.
Don't be afraid of risk.
Shawn Blankenship (34:34):
And to layer on to the risk.
You know, not knowingeverybody's personal situation
and maybe listening to thispodcast, you have somebody in
your life.
Right.
And even if you haven't openedup to them, take that risk.
But being straightforward, Ithink it it's when you try to
nib on edges, they you're you'reyou're more not to jump in.
(34:59):
So if you if you're very closeto somebody and say, hey,
listen, I really value ourrelationship.
I trust you.
But you know, how how can we bebetter for each other?
And you know, however you wantto bring it up in different
ways, it's it's exp expand,expand your extending yourself
(35:19):
out and in in extending trust tothem to say, hey, this is what
I'm looking for.
Can you help me be better?
And I can make me in turn helpyou better.
And maybe it's not for thatperson, and it's it's a it's a
process, but you have to startto take the risk because you
know, especially if you getolder, uh, you know, typically
our our our our principalshrink, right?
So it's not like you have ahundred people.
(35:40):
So the ones you have, you youneed to they need to be a it's
not helping you to hurt you.
Yeah.
And I think being honest andand forthright and and and
leaning in, like Joe said, be auh not being free to expose
vulnerability.
Che Jansen (35:54):
I'll I'll segue off of that a little bit.
I mean, the first thing I wantto say uh as as we come to our
close is we thank you very muchfor having us on the podcast.
And in no way, shape, or formdo any of us think that we are
friendship or relationshipexperts.
We understand there's a greatdeal of luck that went into Sean
Chiang.
There's a great deal of luckthat went into us forming the
(36:21):
friendship we have, and webelong to a great fraternal
organization that that molded usthrough a process that helped
us expedite our ourrelationship.
But that said, I would say youhave to be authentic and
(36:42):
unselfish.
You cannot develop whether it'sa network or a deeper
friendship or any type ofrelationship that's gonna help
you by say, What am I gonna getout of this?
We've never, you know, justthrough the grace of God, been
that way with each other.
It's never been about oneindividual.
(37:03):
It's always been about ushelping and supporting one
another.
I think that when we first gottogether, it was to pledge a
fraternity.
And I think that was the goal.
Your husband, Rob, would wouldprobably tell you because he was
leading us at that time when wefirst uh started on that
journey, that the goal was tomake us see that we were
(37:27):
stronger together than we wereindividually.
And I think uh through someextraordinary weirdness, we
learned that and we and wegrabbed onto it.
Yeah, that didn't sound right,but it's okay.
No, it was just uh what I meantis an up and down uh process,
but you know, we ate a a lot ofbad meals together.
(37:51):
We had a lot of difficult butinteresting conversations with
one another, and it allcontributes to us learning more
about one another and uhfiguring out that we needed to
depend on one another to reachour goal.
Dr C (38:06):
So reciprocity, right?
So reciprocal relationships uhgood as diffusive of itself,
right?
Joe Gorley (38:12):
I mean, if you're good, good comes back to you.
Listen, principle, right?
Good as diffusive of itself.
Dr C (38:18):
Love that very scientific reading, for example, and
University of Daegan, right?
So, Sean, Joe, and Shay, Icannot thank you enough.
Your wisdom, yourvulnerability, and the living
example set for all of us is atrue gift.
Thank you for being on the LifePodcast.
(38:40):
Really appreciate your time.
Che Jansen (38:43):
Thank you, thank you so much, keep doing what you
do.
Dr C (38:47):
Wow, what an incredible conversation.
As I'm sitting here justreflecting on what we heard, I'm
struck by one big idea.
True wellness is not aboutself-care, it's about community
care.
It's about building a life sostrong, so supported, that you
can weather any storm.
We've learned that these bondsdon't survive by accident.
They are a choice.
A choice to show up, to bevulnerable, to be consistent.
(39:11):
So here's a challenge to you.
Don't wait.
Who is that person who poppedin your head while you were
listening?
That friend you haven't talkedto in a while, that person
you've been meaning to check on.
Your one step for today is toclose this app, pick up your
phone, and send them a text.
Just one sentence.
Hey, I've been thinking aboutyou, and I'm grateful you're in
(39:32):
my life.
That's it.
That's the first step.
Thank you for investing in yourwellness and for being here
with us today.
Until next time, keep onlearning, stay inspired,
continue to flourish, and neverstop evolving.
I'm your host, Dr.
C, and this is the LifePodcast.
Hola, and welcome back to the Life Podcast where we
explore how to learn, inspire,flourish, and evolve into our
best, most authentic selves.
I'm your host, Dr.
Steve, and today we're talkingabout emotional and social
wellness.
I want you to think about aquestion.
Who do you call at 3 a.m.?
Not just when things somethingis wrong, but when something is
(00:22):
amazing.
Who in your life has seen youat your worst and still
celebrates you at your best?
In our hyper-connected,digitally saturated world, many
of us are feeling profoundlydisconnected.
The Surgeon General has evendeclared loneliness a public
health epidemic, citing researchthat chronic loneliness can be
(00:43):
detrimental to our health assmoking 15 cigarettes a day.
But today, today, we're talkingabout the antidote.
We're exploring the profoundwellness benefits of a strong,
lifelong social network.
And I'm not just talking abouttheory.
I have brought on threeincredible graphs who are living
the living embodiment of thisprinciple.
Today, we're joined by SeanBlinkenship, Joe Gorley, and
(01:06):
Shay Jansen.
These three men areaccomplished professionals,
husbands, and fathers.
But they are also brothers.
They formed their bond over 35years ago at the University of
Dayton as they were becomingmembers of the Gamma Theta
chapter of Alpha by AlphaFraternity Incorporated.
And today they're going toshare what it takes to build a
(01:30):
brotherhood that lasts of like alifetime.
Sean, Joe, and Shay, welcome tothe Life Podcast.
Thank you, Doc Lady.
Thanks for having us.
Yes, you're welcome.
So 35 years of friendship is anincredible milestone.
So let's set the stage for ourlisteners.
And Shay, I'll start with you.
How would you describe thefeeling of this brotherhood in
(01:52):
one word or one phrase?
Che Jansen (01:54):
One word is tough, but I would say in in probably
the most boring fashionpossible, unique.
And when I say unique, it'sbecause it's, you know, probably
not the most descriptive word,but we understand that we share
something that not everybodyhas, right?
We've talked about it atlength, about the fact that, you
(02:17):
know, there are other people inour same or similar situation,
fraternity brothers, but theydon't necessarily have what it
is that we've cultivated overmore than three decades, which
is an everyday type ofrelationship that we benefit
from on a daily basis.
(02:38):
And so that's what I believe wefind to be unique.
And I know just in our youknow, our conversation prior to
this, that we'll get into someof the details of why that is,
but we certainly cultivate it.
We understand that it'ssomething we need to feed.
Uh, and so we've developed ituh over the years.
Dr C (02:55):
Yeah.
So that's the intentionality ofmaking sure that you're
building as you go.
So Joe and Sean, what what whatdo you think about what Shay
just described?
Shawn Blankenship (03:03):
You know, I I think to build upon cultivation
and intentionality is exactlythe right word.
There's also a lot of the wordthat comes to mind is
accountability.
And we look at each other notonly just as black men, we look
at each other as fathers, youknow, uh husbands, you name it.
And with that isaccountability.
So I we talk family.
(03:24):
This is family.
It's like you feel you'reaccountable to your parents,
your your siblings, whatever itmay be.
I'm accountable to Shane andJoe as well.
And so I that's always the backof my mind.
With the actions, with thesetwo look at me and say, damn,
why are you doing that?
Dr C (03:37):
Yes.
Joe, what do you think aboutthat?
Joe Gorley (03:39):
You know, when I think about these brothers, and
I do call them brothers in therealistic portion of it, is you
know, we've grown together.
We don't it's just nurture arelationship that we had in
college.
Our relationship has grown.
So I know Sean's daughter, Iknow Shay's family, and and we
spent time to this family.
And I think that's important.
A relationship can't staystagnant, it can't be 1990 again
(03:59):
forever, right?
Where are we now?
And I think that accountabilityhas to do with it.
Yeah, I think it's alsorespectability, just enjoying
being around each other, Ithink, is very critical.
Dr C (04:08):
I love that.
I love that.
And so we all face intensestress, right?
So we know that no matter whatyou do, there are going to be
challenges in life, whether it'sfrom our career, our families,
or just life life.
So, Sean, can you share aspecific time where knowing this
brotherhood had your backdirectly lowered your stress or
helped you through a major lifechallenge?
Shawn Blankenship (04:30):
Oh yeah.
Joe Silavino's my daughter,like, you know, in the
traditional sense of the word, II uh have a child at the time,
I have a lot, right?
Uh, and it wasn't necessarilyplanned, per se, right?
And as I look at that in thatsituation, you know, there's a
level of disappointment.
You know, you feel it becauseit wasn't planned.
(04:50):
And how do I go with my parentsand talked about it?
These two were were a sound onthe board for me before my
parents knew I had a baby on theway they knew, because I had,
you know, we may depend on howfar the conversation was, we may
talk about our different rolesin this relationship, this
friendship, and we we all havedifferent roles in this
friendship.
And Shay's like the mature one.
(05:11):
So I was like, I gotta go tothis guy.
Shea's, you know, whatever agehe was at that time, 30, but the
maturity of a 50-year-old.
So I think he helps me set thestage in my concerns, my my
fears, and says, Well, at theend of the day, Joe says, You
got me accountable.
You know, so that made me feellike it's gonna be okay, you
(05:32):
know.
My parents are gonna love meany less.
I'm not a bad person for makinga decision or something
happened to like that happenedto me.
It gave me the confidence to gobe the best father I can be.
Dr C (05:41):
Wow, that's amazing.
Accountability through love,right?
Shawn Blankenship (05:46):
Through love.
It's never a judgment zone withus.
Like I don't I'll never look toJoe and judge him for something
or shade and judge, and I don'tthink they've ever looked at me
that way.
And we or maybe little things.
Che Jansen (05:58):
Yeah, we'll talk for a bad choice on that shirt.
Dr C (06:02):
You gotta hold people accountable for a bad shirt.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I mean, look at yeah, statements.
We'll talk later.
Shawn Blankenship (06:09):
Yeah, it's and even when you do get
critical love from us, it comesfrom a place of love, it's not
of wanting to make you feelbetter to put you down.
So when you get that trust andconfidence, it gives you the
courage to feel like it's gonnabe okay.
So these guys are doing thatfor me.
Yeah, that's a strong supportsystem.
Dr C (06:26):
Yeah, for sure.
And so they've known yourdaughter Shannon for for since
she was born, right?
Or in the belly, as they say.
Yeah, in the belly.
Shawn Blankenship (06:32):
That was the first one of us that had kids.
So yeah.
Wow, wow.
Dr C (06:35):
And then were you at the hospital?
I mean, like, how did how whenShannon was born?
How did you, Joe, and and Shaykind of uh experience that with
Sean?
I thought I had the greatestSean story ever.
Joe Gorley (06:47):
Tell me.
So we came, me and my wife, wecame to see Sean and meet
Shannon, right?
And Shannon was in the uh ahigh chair, that's what you call
it, eating.
And so she's eating and she hasall the stuff on her shirt.
So, like the good dad does,instead of the wife with the
shirt, I mean she took her shirtoff.
Dr C (07:06):
Right, just take the shirt off.
Joe Gorley (07:09):
So that's what I remember the most.
You know, today I still I lookat the woman that Shannon become
father that Sean is and all histhing.
I I snit her at that.
It just shows you how uh howmen handle men's stuff.
Right.
Dr C (07:22):
And and Shannon is an amazing young woman.
And so great job with her.
And I know that Shay and Joe,she she sees them as their
uncles, and she talks veryhighly about her relationship
with Shay and Joe.
And the relationship that thethree of you have has also
impacted her.
I'm not speaking for her, Icould just conversation that me
and her have had, it's impactedher positively, right?
(07:44):
And so that's always great tosee.
Che Jansen (07:45):
Yeah, it's exposed her to a level of crazy that I'm
sure it needs to be your three.
Dr C (07:53):
Everybody needs that in their little bit younger.
So, Joe, you mentioned earlierthat you can't stay in 1990,
right?
You can't be a 19, 20-year-oldforever.
So I'm curious how the supporthas changed and the challenges
of a 20-year-old is totallydifferent than the challenges of
a 50-year-old.
(08:14):
Right?
So, how has the way you supporteach other's well-being evolved
over, you know, since yourcollege days?
Gotcha.
Joe Gorley (08:22):
That's a great question.
And I think part of it is wedon't like to see each other
every day, uh, but we alwaysknow when to call.
I don't know what that is, kindof mystical about that.
You always get a call and Ineed that.
And I think it starts withrespect, right?
And when you have someone thatyou respect immensely, you love
that crook out of me.
You want it, right?
I want to, I want to make theseguys proud.
And so as we've got older, Iuse these guys as sounding
(08:44):
boards, and not just, you know,uh politics and those types of
things, but you know, fan thingsand this man stuff and you know
how you're feeling, and thatwe're not afraid to talk about
those feelings and things.
So I guess it changed frombasically having fun to not
gonna be around each otherplaying sports or those types of
things, to really being asupport network about the
holistic self, our entire self,right?
(09:04):
And if if you don't share yourentire soap with somebody,
you're not gonna get somebody'sentire soul back.
So if you really want that typeof intimacy, I guess if you
will, in regards to friendship,project, brotherhood, you're
gonna have to share it and get.
And I think that's important.
Dr C (09:18):
That is important.
Can I build another one?
Shawn Blankenship (09:20):
Absolutely.
Then I'm gonna give you aspecific example that you know
where I'm probably going withthis joke.
I was I it's crazy.
Joe is of the three of us, hasbeen the biggest proponent of
men's health.
Joe is of the three of us.
Like, I tend to, and I don'twant to stare that, don't be
talking shit about this, but wetend to have aches and pains
with one off.
Joe was on, like, his men'shealth, all those things.
(09:43):
And he and I had a conversationone day, and the
accountability, I keep startingback to that work.
We had a conversation, andyou're on board, right?
And he was like, he was talkingabout his phone out.
I said, Oh man, I'm not tryingto do all that, blah blah blah
blah, whatever.
Yeah, you were saying, Sean, uhhuh.
He said, You owe it toyourself, your daughter, your
family.
It's what men do.
Oh he told me it's counting,and it's so funny.
(10:05):
After I got done having it, mymind tell me first person I
call, didn't call my mom, youdidn't call Shan, I called Joe.
I was so friggin' proud.
I said, Joe, I got no phoneasking me.
Wow.
He was so proud of me.
I was super happy.
Yeah, yeah, it was.
I won't go to a funeral, right?
Dr C (10:22):
You're right, you're right, absolutely.
Che Jansen (10:23):
I I echo that a thousand percent, and I think
that when you respect people,and we definitely respect one
another, it allows you to seethat you don't have to, I don't
have to live through somethingfirsthand in order to learn from
it.
I'm definitely gonna take Joe'sknowledge because I respect him
(10:43):
so much.
I'm gonna take Sean'sexperiences and knowledge, and
I'm gonna incorporate that intothe way that I live.
So, you know, Joe uh called meone day, as Joe calls.
We'll talk about that.
What you doing, Joe?
I'm out here walking.
You know you gotta walk, right?
Dr C (11:02):
You gotta walk, man.
That's right.
Che Jansen (11:05):
Now, it may have been 10 o'clock at night.
Dr C (11:07):
Joe walks a lot of times.
Che Jansen (11:12):
But you know, so I have in and not to the level
that he does, but I'veincorporated that into my game.
Like, okay, you know, he'sright.
And I can make time.
I mean, the something that Joeis really good at is saying, I'm
gonna do something, and thenmaking, setting aside the time
to do it.
And I so I think I I believe weall listen to one another, hear
(11:35):
what is going on, and and like,okay, how can I learn from
that?
How can I improve myself basedon you know what my brother is
doing because it's making animprovement in his life?
Dr C (11:45):
Yeah.
So it's like birds of a featherflock together, right?
I think growing up, it's yourparents telling you, you become
who you hang out with, right?
And so I I see We talked aboutthat last night.
You had this conversation lastnight.
Interesting.
So you become who you, youknow, your environment is very
important, and who you bringinto that environment is very
(12:07):
important as well.
So what I'm seeing is thislevel of accountability that
comes out of love, that comesout of you all being vulnerable
and transparent enough to say, Itrust you, and I'm gonna trust
you with everything that I have,everything that I am, so that
you can then continue to pourinto me.
And and I every time I've beenaround the three of you, I've
(12:27):
always felt a sense ofauthenticity, serious, serious
love, and accountability to likethe highest power, right?
And and that's always beenvery, it's always left an
impression on me.
And me and Rod always talkabout it when we leave.
I'm like, man, they're they'resome crazy guys, fun, you know,
but I love the brotherhood.
I love the authenticity thatyou all share with each other.
(12:51):
Can I make a comment aboutthat?
Absolutely.
Che Jansen (12:54):
And I apologize for cutting you off before your
question, but when you describeto us what the health benefit
that you wanted to get from thisconversation, something that
struck me is that authenticity,right?
You cannot receive the benefitof friendship if you're hiding
(13:14):
something, if you're not beingyour true self.
I would say the one thing thathas sustained us for, you know,
we have been friends close to 30or close to 40 years in total
now, is that we come to theparty as us.
You know.
Dr C (13:36):
It's not coming.
Che Jansen (13:43):
But what's great is that we, you know, we don't have
to dress up.
We don't have to put anythingon.
Whenever we talk, whenever weshare it, if something's
hurting, we let them know it'shurting.
If we're not happy aboutsomething, we let them know
that.
If if something hasn't goneright, you know, we've we've
(14:06):
gone through job losses,businesses not going right, all
that stuff.
But I know I could just say it.
You know, why why hide it?
And they're gonna not onlyaccept whatever it is for what
it is, but they're gonna try anddo their best to help me with
it.
And I think we all feel thatway.
Dr C (14:28):
We'll see.
Che Jansen (14:28):
Yeah, we'll see.
Dr C (14:30):
Okay, great.
Thank you for that.
So beyond the obvious supportduring a crisis, I'm curious to
know what's a hidden wellnessbenefit you get from this bond?
So let's start with you, Shay.
I know you you started talkingabout that, but is there a
tangible wellness benefit thatyou get from your brothers from
being in these relationships?
Che Jansen (14:51):
Well, the obvious one for me is joy.
So invariably, we laugh a lot.
Hopefully, it will come throughin this podcast.
Um we love to laugh and have agood time.
So very few conversations thatare I don't want to say serious,
because we have serious uhdiscussions, but we treat things
(15:15):
with humor.
I think that is our lovelanguage among each other.
You know, whether it is thecolonoscopy thing or somebody's
having a health issue.
I was just telling you beforewe started about me having back
pain uh and going for a massage,and it becomes a comedy
routine.
Sean is doing his best not tocrack it.
(15:35):
But uh, but that's how we roll.
It is, you know, we laugh, jokecalls, and if I'm in the car
with my son, my son startscracking up because he knows
something funny is about and andI love that, you know.
(15:56):
If nothing else, sometimes, youknow, I I wonder, could I what
would life be without Sean John?
Like if I'm the one that livesoutside of the city of
Cleveland, so I don't get to seethem as often as they might see
each other, but we talk all thetime.
But the one thing that I I needis that levity that they bring
(16:21):
to my life and to everysituation.
I know if if something's heavy,all I gotta do is get on the
phone with them, and soon I'mgonna be laughing about it.
Dr C (16:28):
Wow, that's amazing.
That laughter is the bestmedicine, right?
So, Joe, what are your thoughtson your hidden benefit,
wellness benefit that you getout of this relationship?
Joe Gorley (16:38):
That's a good question.
I and I was trying to changefor your chicken because he's
older.
And I was like, Works that Iuse some fancy words and
whatever.
But what I what I think aboutis at the end of it, like when I
wake up on Monday and I'm gonnago to work and do the
professional joke, I'mrefreshed.
For lack of a better word.
Feels like I just, you know,it's like refreshed.
(16:58):
It's like if I don't sound likepart of your medicine routine.
Like every now and then we meetthis kind of de-stressor and
Mr.
Fun and the unabridgedconversations and those types of
things.
So to me, it it's like arefresher.
It's like a little uh hospicealmost like you can get away,
relax a little bit and I can goback to the room.
Dr C (17:17):
Wow.
So you're re-energized everytime you're with your brothers.
Joe Gorley (17:22):
Rededicated, actually.
A lot of uh other things thathappen that Monday.
It's like, you know what?
They're doing good, I gotta dobetter.
Cool.
Have fun, you know, but hey,this is what I want to do.
And they talk about aretirement plan.
Let's say my retirement plan.
It's not just a competitionthing, but again, it's that
accountability to the point ofat the end of it, I I can
imagine us, you know, 10 yearsfrom now being retired, still
(17:43):
doing the same type of things.
And yeah, and then you can stepthat game up a little bit,
hopefully.
So those are the I just there-energy is really key for me.
Dr C (17:51):
I love that.
What about you, Sean?
Shawn Blankenship (17:54):
Comfort.
You know, it's it's maybe a manthing.
I'll be a little bit morespecific to say a black male
thing.
The weight of the world is onyour shoulders, and sometimes
men internalize and distress atthe point of the podcast.
When you have folks that youcan talk to, and you know,
especially guys, I know we haveyou know significant others in
(18:16):
our lives, our wives, whatever,they they they get are still
support, right?
And it can be the the theshoulder.
But sometimes those man thingsand sometimes you're afraid to
talk to a man about it.
And when you have two guys thatyou can talk to, and it's like
again, zone, I can becomfortable, I can be
vulnerable, and and reallyturning you struggle with the
weak, you know, quote unquote,and you know there's gonna be no
(18:39):
bullback.
Oh man, this guy's on oh man,you got shot, Jesus Christ.
What's up?
No, I love you.
This is what you should do.
And this stuff Joe just talkedabout, like that comfort of like
I'm good.
I can I almost recalibrate alittle bit and I can't do it
because not only are we beholdento ourselves, but not almost
crazy old guys.
Uh but we have the youngergeneration.
(18:59):
How do we help them?
So as we go to form ourrelationships, then we start
trying to teach the youngerfolks coming behind us, be our
cousins, our sons, our nephews,close friends, whatever.
Like a lot of us mentor youngmen, young black men.
We get to be the model for themand the comfort that I can
continue to do in with thesefolks and be vulnerable, and
then they accept me for who Iam, and vice versa, gives me the
(19:21):
energy to keep going, A, andthen B, you know, share that
with the folks who behind.
Dr C (19:27):
Wow.
I and I didn't even think abouteach one's each one, right?
How how this brotherhood andhow your relationship and and
all the benefits of it, how itcan really be an example to
younger individuals and how theyform relationships and how
intentional they are whenthey're choosing their social
(19:48):
network, right?
Choosing their brothers orchoosing their support network.
So we know friendships fade,and and Shay, you kind of
touched on this.
And it's one of life's hardtruths.
We know that people get busy,they move away, they drift,
life, life, life is lifing, andby the time you know it, six
months have passed, or maybe ayear.
(20:09):
So you three have activelyprevented that over the last
three decades, right?
Show uh, sorry, Joe and Sean,you both live in the same city,
as you said, Shay, and and youdon't.
So, Shay, what are thepractical, intentional things
you do to maintain thisconnection?
What's the glue?
Che Jansen (20:29):
Short answer to the glue is Joe.
Oh, okay.
Because Joe is always, youknow, Joe's not gonna let but so
much time go by before you'regonna get a call.
Okay.
And and and then his Joe voice.
Hey, what's the but the otherthing is that the three of us
together, you know, we at whenwe were in our 20s, we didn't
(20:52):
really keep score, but at somepoint we said, you know, we've
gotten together at least once ayear, every year since we've
known each other.
Dr C (21:00):
That was intentional or not intentional?
Che Jansen (21:02):
Before you Well, before we came to before we had
that discussion, it wasn'tintentional.
Just, you know, we somehow justmade sure we had that
connection.
Since that time, we'vedefinitely made sure at some
point we're gonna see eachother.
And then as life has gone onand we've had families and
stuff, you know, there's stufffor the kids that happens.
(21:25):
Hey, gotta be there.
You know, we make sure thatwe're intentional about hitting
those milestones with oneanother.
You know, one of the greatthings about our relationship is
that so I have two sons, eachof them has one daughter.
My oldest son happens to beSean's daughter's age, my
(21:47):
younger son happens to be Joe'sdaughter's age.
Oh wow.
And they have their ownseparate relationships.
Dr C (21:53):
They grew up like cousins, right?
Because I I hear I hear Shannonsaying my cousins, I hear, you
know, so exactly.
Che Jansen (21:59):
And so, you know, my son's birthday is tomorrow, but
he's having his his 16thbirthday party in a couple
weeks.
Joe's daughter will be there.
Um and you know, just a week orso ago, Shannon was traveling,
Sean's daughter was travelingfor work uh and was in the city
where my son currently lives.
And we both asked them to takepictures each other, and neither
(22:21):
one of them sent pictures.
But they do their own thing,and that's an amazing legacy.
I love it.
And but to answer your questionsuccinctly, it's connection.
You you you must be intentionalabout that connection.
Like you said, if you're notintentional, then time goes by
and you're like, wow, you know,I haven't seen such and such in
(22:42):
so long.
But in order to get thosehealth benefits of relationship,
I believe there has to befrequency.
Right?
You know, you you can't takemedicine once every other year
and expect it to look things upeasy.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Che Jansen (22:59):
You know, you gotta you gotta, you know, invest that
time to get the benefit.
Dr C (23:04):
Yeah, yeah.
Wow.
So let's move into navigatingconflict because there's no
perfect bond, right?
And healthy relationshipsrequire navigating conflicts.
So, Sean, can you share a timeor a general rule how you handle
disagreements or hold eachother accountable?
Shawn Blankenship (23:23):
Hmm.
I think, you know, in alltransparency, we've never had a
knockdown like rides was upseteither, right?
We'll have a role of littlethings.
But what I do think to answerthe question would be that
anything I ever would agreedisagree with them or give them
(23:43):
feedback on, they know that itcomes from a place of love and
concern and honesty.
It's not from a place of anyhidden agendas, it's uh we're
pretty direct, like you know,like any direct but with love.
Like, you know, Shay's I goingback, we all have like we have
(24:05):
about the glue in the previousquestion.
Joe is the glue.
And I as I mentioned I kind ofhinted earlier, we all have
roles, and like Shay's like thesage.
I I you know, I think we kindof go to Shay because he just uh
me and Joe will tend to be alittle more, a little more
silly, a little more sophomore.
Yeah, we're an album energyguy, he's the glue, he he's the
(24:25):
the he's the voice for reason.
And to go to him and getfeedback and and he's always
comes from a good place.
And when I it's not justfeedback, because I it can be
something if if I'm you knowfrustrated with you know, we
don't get frustrated with eachother because again, we don't
probably go, we're not in eachother's lives enough to be on
(24:46):
each other's nerves.
So it's more about the ideologybecause over the course of our
30 plus years together, have wehad some things, of course, we
have brought you right and beatJoe up and Tim on his way.
Dr C (24:58):
Um Joe the glue who gets beat up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shawn Blankenship (25:06):
Um when it comes down to giving that
feedback, it is always from aplace of because I love you and
I care about you.
It's never of you're wrong,you're bad, it's how you're it's
impacting me.
And I'm doing this because Ilove you.
And you know, I think because Iit goes back to that kind of
(25:27):
building, I keep it's gonna be aconcurrent theme in this
podcast, right?
I'm afraid to let them down.
So shit, shit to be pissed atme.
I don't.
I'll feel bad.
Or if Joe's mad at me, like Joeand I talk a lot, like Joe, he
and I, Joe takes these damn 11p.m.
walks uh to his neighborhood,and he'll call you.
And it's like if he's takingthe time to do that, he lets him
down.
Yeah.
So I avoid conflict by tryingto make sure I'm super
(25:51):
accountable to him.
But if there is one, it justcomes from a place of love.
You just say, listen, this isunacceptable.
You're better than this.
We have a brand that hasZagawa, our line name, as Gamma
Theta, our chapter name, and asMyth, our last name.
Dr C (26:06):
Thank you for that.
Joe Gorley (26:07):
Yeah, I yeah, I was thinking about that, reflecting
here, because it sounds kind ofwhack and authentic.
Right.
But I don't think you've everhad a drawn out, I'm not talking
to you out of anger, thing.
Which is odd.
I know it's odd, and it soundslike you know, not authentic,
but I'm trying to reflect on itbecause I think I owe you the
(26:27):
the authenticity here.
I can't I can't remember it.
That's been frustrations andwe'll have a a knop-out debate
about the Browns or you know,we'll do all that stuff and
we'll we'll talk politics andand those types of things.
But it's um it's can bepassionate, but I've never gone
away and say, man, that I don'tthat guy that made me feel bad
or I just I just never had that.
(26:48):
Yeah I don't know.
I think that is unique, butI've never not talked to these
guys intentions because I wasmad.
I just can't, I just I justhaven't had it just haven't
happened.
Dr C (26:57):
So I wonder if that storming, right, happened when
you guys were in maybe incollege, maybe during your your
process, and then after you uhentered Alpha Phi Alpha, I
wonder if that was already kindof done, right?
The the whole competition, theconflict, the the feeling like,
oh, he's saying that because ofsomething else, or feeling
(27:19):
jealousy or anything like that.
Maybe all that was kind ofworked out as you guys your bond
grew while you were, you know,going through your college days
and maybe through your processof becoming brothers.
Maybe what do you think?
Joe Gorley (27:37):
Maybe.
You know, I have to look I Iwant to noodle that a little
bit.
I think I have to noodle thatto give it a the fair
assessment.
I think at the end of the day,or when I think about um upset
about these guys, if if I'mupset with them, I'm gonna be
thinking when I do it wrong.
Because I think it's it'slegitimate from a place of love
(28:01):
and those types of things.
So if I can imagine these guys,like when I think about
friends, and I have friends likewell, or you know, you have
associates, but then you dothings with and you have
associates because you do thesame activity or that's golf and
it's cars or whatever.
But you know, when you havereal friends, and that friend
can that friend will come from aplace and say, hey man, you
know what?
I think you shouldn't do that.
(28:22):
I think you shouldn't drive, Ithink you shouldn't miss.
I think you you know I don'tlike how you talk to your wife a
little bit.
You know, you might want tocheck that a little bit,
whatever those types of things,and and you can't get mad at
that if you believe you trulybelieve it is coming from a
place of of sincerity andlegitimate.
Che Jansen (28:38):
I I would add one other thing.
I think it helps that there'sthree of us.
I think that and again, I don'tthink that there's been any
like big issues that we've, youknow, but I I can if Joe you
know might call me and say, Hey,have you talked to Sean a
(29:01):
minute?
No, I really haven't.
You know, he's tripping.
Like, where where's he been?
Or whatever.
And we talk it out like eachother, but then we'll both call
him.
Right, right, right.
Dr C (29:11):
What's going on?
So you guys are triaging,right?
And then and then holding eachother accountable to make it am
I am I tripping?
No, you're not tripping.
Che Jansen (29:20):
Okay, let's reach out to him.
Right, right, yeah, and we'renot kibbitching around by each
other's backing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We're like literally likelooking at like, hey man, I
can't talk to you.
Where's that fellow?
Dr C (29:31):
Where's that young man at?
Shawn Blankenship (29:32):
And you things are dressed up as like
you have to be part of theconversation.
I've had this conversationbefore, and you know, I I took
travel a bit for work and dothis, that, the other third, and
especially when you know mydaughter's young, she was coming
up, you get wrapped up in thisworld, right?
And not that I don't loveanybody else, but the day to day
you can catch it, like youtalked about, right?
And say, Hey, not even good ifhe did this.
He's not telling me, you know,it's not do this, but he's
(29:55):
indirectly telling me this iswhat we need from you, and
you're not hungry in the bar ofhis ass.
So accountants are voiding.
Right?
It goes back to thataccountability.
And the only thing I'm gonnaadd, like, you know, we we'd had
this conversation.
You look, if you took like a ananalysis of the Janssen family,
the Blinkster family, and theGroley family, they're very
similar.
You know, and when you talkabout when like you know, uh
(30:19):
both our parents are for bothour parents in the house.
So with that sense ofaccountability, like the
expectations that are put uponyou when you come from, you
know, strong, strong family,strong sinner.
I know both their parents.
Strong, strong, right?
Expectations, it felt like youtalked about it earlier, you
know, like you are who you hangout with, you are who raise you.
(30:40):
So there's that level ofaccountability that we all feel
with our families, and then whenthey come out of that family,
it's so you know, I don't reallyargue with my sister.
You know, yeah, because there'sa lot of accountability that
you have to look first yourselfbefore you look at the other
folks' folks' actions.
I think we've grounded in thattoo.
Dr C (30:57):
I love that.
Che Jansen (30:58):
And when you're direct with people, that tends
to avoid a lot of conflict, likeyou know, passive aggressive.
If if and it it's if it'ssomething like, you know, hey,
you know, you're you're beingtoo hard on your child, or
you're, you know, give yourchild some independence, some
(31:18):
space to do their thing, we'lljust come out and say it.
You know?
We we may again say it in a ina humorous way, but I think
we've known each other longenough to to get through the
code words.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Right, right, right, right.
Che Jansen (31:36):
He's saying, okay, he's telling me ease up.
Dr C (31:38):
Yeah.
All right.
And and so I love that you talkabout the the humor, right?
The humor that you all kind ofyou said that's your love
language, right?
Laughter is your love language,humor is your love language.
And it's interesting to to hearthat because I see it, right?
So I've been around you guysfor a couple of years now and
and hanging out with y'all andhaving a great time and all
(32:00):
that, but I I see the lovethrough your humor.
And when you're cracking oneach other and making jokes
about each other, you know, it'sit's funny, but I never felt
like, ooh, ooh, did he reallysay that?
Like I always I instinctivelyknew that it was out of love.
It was just a humorous, youknow, crack.
(32:20):
And no, none of you changed,you know, your your your face,
your attitude.
It was just like you took it,you understood it, and you kept
it moving.
So, you know, laughter is thebest medicine, and you guys
really have have like perfectedthat.
Che Jansen (32:37):
I appreciate it too, but I will say that that's an
area, a growth area, right?
And I think like with with anyor with most groups of guys,
there are times when you end upbeing the butt of the joke,
maybe through a fault of yourown, maybe through no fault of
your own.
Dr C (32:57):
Maybe it's the shirt you wear.
Che Jansen (33:01):
And everybody piles on, right?
So you may not you may have oneof us may have started it, but
somebody else jumped in and thennext thing you know.
And so I think all of us havebeen in that area.
Joe, Joe makes this face thatwe call the Joe face.
And and so, you know, we'vewe've been there when it
(33:22):
probably goes too far, but we'velearned how to reel yourself
back in.
Yeah, and and how to how to uhuh you know kind of cut it off
when it's it's getting toanother point.
All right, you know, he's hadenough.
But we've won.
Leave him alone, leave himalone.
Maybe bear it next time.
Dr C (33:43):
So so as we wrap up, many of our listeners are feeling
inspired by your by yourbrotherhood, but might also be
feeling lonely.
So for someone who's feelingdisconnected, what is the first
smallest, most practical stepthey can take this week to start
deepening their own socialnetwork?
Joe Gorley (34:01):
Risk.
Dr C (34:02):
Risk.
Please tell me more.
Joe Gorley (34:04):
Learn how to accept risk.
It's harder, right?
And that's one of the it's notit's not in the nature.
Most people aren't don't acceptrisk, right?
It's not like in the nature ofraising conservative and scared
of change.
But you have to risk somethingif you want something, right?
And so that person that worksand you have a water cooler kind
of conversation with, maybe goto lunch, maybe have a coffee,
(34:24):
do something low risk, but kindof risk something that to see if
you can get a relationship withsomebody that you can share and
cultivate.
Don't be afraid of risk.
Shawn Blankenship (34:34):
And to layer on to the risk.
You know, not knowingeverybody's personal situation
and maybe listening to thispodcast, you have somebody in
your life.
Right.
And even if you haven't openedup to them, take that risk.
But being straightforward, Ithink it it's when you try to
nib on edges, they you're you'reyou're more not to jump in.
(34:59):
So if you if you're very closeto somebody and say, hey,
listen, I really value ourrelationship.
I trust you.
But you know, how how can we bebetter for each other?
And you know, however you wantto bring it up in different
ways, it's it's exp expand,expand your extending yourself
(35:19):
out and in in extending trust tothem to say, hey, this is what
I'm looking for.
Can you help me be better?
And I can make me in turn helpyou better.
And maybe it's not for thatperson, and it's it's a it's a
process, but you have to startto take the risk because you
know, especially if you getolder, uh, you know, typically
our our our our principalshrink, right?
So it's not like you have ahundred people.
(35:40):
So the ones you have, you youneed to they need to be a it's
not helping you to hurt you.
Yeah.
And I think being honest andand forthright and and and
leaning in, like Joe said, be auh not being free to expose
vulnerability.
Che Jansen (35:54):
I'll I'll segue off of that a little bit.
I mean, the first thing I wantto say uh as as we come to our
close is we thank you very muchfor having us on the podcast.
And in no way, shape, or formdo any of us think that we are
friendship or relationshipexperts.
We understand there's a greatdeal of luck that went into Sean
Chiang.
There's a great deal of luckthat went into us forming the
(36:21):
friendship we have, and webelong to a great fraternal
organization that that molded usthrough a process that helped
us expedite our ourrelationship.
But that said, I would say youhave to be authentic and
(36:42):
unselfish.
You cannot develop whether it'sa network or a deeper
friendship or any type ofrelationship that's gonna help
you by say, What am I gonna getout of this?
We've never, you know, justthrough the grace of God, been
that way with each other.
It's never been about oneindividual.
(37:03):
It's always been about ushelping and supporting one
another.
I think that when we first gottogether, it was to pledge a
fraternity.
And I think that was the goal.
Your husband, Rob, would wouldprobably tell you because he was
leading us at that time when wefirst uh started on that
journey, that the goal was tomake us see that we were
(37:27):
stronger together than we wereindividually.
And I think uh through someextraordinary weirdness, we
learned that and we and wegrabbed onto it.
Yeah, that didn't sound right,but it's okay.
No, it was just uh what I meantis an up and down uh process,
but you know, we ate a a lot ofbad meals together.
(37:51):
We had a lot of difficult butinteresting conversations with
one another, and it allcontributes to us learning more
about one another and uhfiguring out that we needed to
depend on one another to reachour goal.
Dr C (38:06):
So reciprocity, right?
So reciprocal relationships uhgood as diffusive of itself,
right?
Joe Gorley (38:12):
I mean, if you're good, good comes back to you.
Listen, principle, right?
Good as diffusive of itself.
Dr C (38:18):
Love that very scientific reading, for example, and
University of Daegan, right?
So, Sean, Joe, and Shay, Icannot thank you enough.
Your wisdom, yourvulnerability, and the living
example set for all of us is atrue gift.
Thank you for being on the LifePodcast.
(38:40):
Really appreciate your time.
Che Jansen (38:43):
Thank you, thank you so much, keep doing what you
do.
Dr C (38:47):
Wow, what an incredible conversation.
As I'm sitting here justreflecting on what we heard, I'm
struck by one big idea.
True wellness is not aboutself-care, it's about community
care.
It's about building a life sostrong, so supported, that you
can weather any storm.
We've learned that these bondsdon't survive by accident.
They are a choice.
A choice to show up, to bevulnerable, to be consistent.
(39:11):
So here's a challenge to you.
Don't wait.
Who is that person who poppedin your head while you were
listening?
That friend you haven't talkedto in a while, that person
you've been meaning to check on.
Your one step for today is toclose this app, pick up your
phone, and send them a text.
Just one sentence.
Hey, I've been thinking aboutyou, and I'm grateful you're in
(39:32):
my life.
That's it.
That's the first step.
Thank you for investing in yourwellness and for being here
with us today.
Until next time, keep onlearning, stay inspired,
continue to flourish, and neverstop evolving.
I'm your host, Dr.
C, and this is the LifePodcast.
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