November 3, 2024 • 41 mins
Can confronting your deepest fears transform your life? Discover the candid journey of Logan Hufford as he shares his battle with sexual addiction and recovery on the Lift One Self podcast. Logan opens up about the complexities of addiction, the stigma it carries, and the urgent need for open discussions around mental health, especially in today's digital age. Together, we explore how trauma impacts the nervous system and how addiction often serves as a mechanism to escape pain. This episode highlights the importance of creating safe environments for honest conversations, particularly for parents guiding their children through a world where explicit content is alarmingly accessible.
Logan recounts his personal story, shedding light on the struggles and repercussions of infidelity and addiction within a marriage. His narrative reveals the inherent challenges in seeking change without taking responsibility or altering one's environment. The discussion touches on the internal battles of shame and guilt, showcasing how addiction can become an exoskeleton—both protecting and poisoning the individual. Through powerful metaphors and introspection, we navigate the intricate layers of addiction and the arduous journey of recovery, emphasizing the vital role of accountability in repairing personal relationships and self-worth.
Our conversation doesn't stop at struggle; it blossoms into a message of hope and transformation. Emphasizing the power of choice, we reflect on pivotal moments of realization and the profound shift from hopelessness to healing. Logan shares personal anecdotes that illuminate the journey from darkness to fulfillment, offering listeners a beacon of resilience and possibility. We invite you to join the discussion on social media under Lift One Self and explore the supportive community and services we offer. Remember, kindness and gentleness towards yourself are not just suggestions—they are essential reminders that you matter.
Learn more about Logan here
https://www.prodigalsofalaska.com/
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/no.longer.in.bondage?igsh=MXMwZDN1a3pnanhtYQ==
Remember, the strongest thing you can do for yourself is to ask for help.
Please help us grow by subscribing to and sharing the Lift OneSelf podcast with others.
The podcast intends to dissolve the stigmas around Mental Health and create healing spaces.
I appreciate you, the listener, for tuning in and my guest for sharing.
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Music by prazkhanal
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Lift One Self podcast, where we break
mental health stigmas throughconversations.
I'm your host, nat Nat, and wedive into topics about trauma
and how it impacts the nervoussystem.
Yet we don't just leave youthere.
We share insights and tools ofself-care, meditation and growth
(00:21):
that help you be curious aboutyour own biology.
Your presence matters.
Please like and subscribe toour podcast.
Help our community grow.
Let's get into this.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Oh, and please remember to be kind to yourself.
Welcome to the Lift when Selfpodcast.
I'm your host, nat Nat, andtoday I have an amazing guest
that we're going to get into, avery spicy topic that you know
some people might be able torelate to, some people might
just be like.
I think I'm going to go to thenext episode.
(00:54):
Whatever is needed is needed,yet I think it's a topic that
needs to be discussed so that wecan start creating some change
and some dialogue around it.
So, logan, would you do us thehonors to introduce yourself and
let us know a little bit aboutyourself?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for having meon.
I'm Logan Hufford and I'm uphere in Alaska.
It's always cool to do apodcast with somebody in the
same spectrum, closer to theArctic Circle than it is to the
to the arctic circle than it isto the equator, even if
different countries right I.
I don't know how to introducemyself other than just to give a
little glimpse into my story,which is I'm here talking to you
(01:35):
because I absolutely have beengiven a a new lease on life when
it comes to mental health andaddiction and being trapped in
bondage and not knowing how toever be free from that or if I
even could be freed from that.
So the last eight plus yearshas been a continual journey of
(01:56):
recovery for me and this yearspecifically, I started going on
a broader, a little bit of abroader mission to reach folks
through podcasts and socialmedia and talk about sexual
addiction awareness so, as youheard, listeners, we're going to
get into the sexual addiction.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So for some that's maybe a trigger, for others it's
just not a topic that theyreally want to be engaged in.
So you know, as I always say,take care of yourself and at any
time in this conversation, ifthere's things that made you
feel out of sorts or anything,pause the podcast, take a moment
to process, take the time foryourself and, you know, unpause
(02:37):
it, come back to it.
It could be a couple of daysafter or it could be just a
couple of minutes, whatever isneeded for you.
So again, this whole intentionof this podcast is about
removing the stigma aroundmental health and sexual
addiction.
Unfortunately, a lot of peopleare afraid to start engaging and
talking about it, where I thinkit's very healthy to speak
(03:01):
about sex and what it can dowith our mind and what we can do
with our wounds to try to cope.
And by going in such anaddiction in that aspect, rather
than being able to, you know,feel authentically what our
emotions are.
Because addiction in its simpleform is avoidance of pain.
And what does sex do?
(03:22):
Sex brings pleasure.
So the two in itself, it'sreally to unpack, to better
understand and not have a blackand white thinking.
So, logan, I'm very thankfulthat you're here to bless the
listeners with your experience,your information, and that we
can engage in this conversation.
That's needed right now, andespecially for the younger
(03:45):
generation, that those parentsthat are listening, that they
can have a dialogue with theirchildren and stuff, because now,
with technology, there's allkinds of things that are
accessible to children that inmy generation you had to go to a
store or something like that,but now it's just at their
fingertips in their bedrooms.
So, before we get into thishighly charged conversation,
(04:10):
would you join me in a mindfulmoment so that we can ground
ourselves and connect in ourhearts and, as you know the
listeners, safety first.
I'm going to ask Logan andmyself to close our eyes, yet
most of you are probably drivingor running, so you need your
eyes open.
So safety first, please.
Yet the other prompts you'reable to follow with us.
(04:33):
So, logan, I'm going to ask youto get comfortable in your
seating and, if it's safe foryou, gently close your eyes and
you're going to begin breathingin and out through your nose and
you're going to bring yourawareness to watching your
breath go in and out.
(04:53):
You're not going to try andcontrol your breath.
You're just going to be awareof its rhythm, allowing it to
guide you in your body.
It to guide you in your body.
There may be some sensations orfeelings coming up, and that's
okay, let them come up.
You're safe to feel.
You're safe to let go.
(05:14):
Surrender the need to control,release the need to resist and
just be, be with your breaths,drop into your body.
Now.
There may be thoughts or to-dolists that have popped up in
(05:36):
your mind.
That's okay.
Gently bring your awarenessback to your breath, creating
(06:00):
space between the awareness andthe thoughts and dropping deeper
into your body, keeping thatawareness on your breath and
allowing yourself to just beagain.
More thoughts may have poppedup.
Bring your awareness to yourbreath, beginning again,
creating even more space betweenthe awareness and the thoughts
and dropping even deeper intothe body, allowing yourself to
(06:24):
be with the breath.
Just keeping your awareness onyour breath, keeping that
awareness with your breath,keeping that awareness with your
(06:44):
breath.
Now, at your own time and atyour own pace, you're going to
gently open your eyes whilestaying with the breath.
How's your heart doing?
I want to ask how did thejourney begin with the sexual
addiction?
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Yeah, and I am going to give just a quick little I
co-sign with everything you saidto your audience and then I
will just add this, this littlepiece you know, especially, as
you just said, everyonelistening, you know, to take
care of themselves and andknowing their themselves and
(07:26):
their past and their triggers,um, but here's how I go through
every podcast interview I'veever done.
Every when I'm talking aboutrecovery, talking about sexual
addiction, uh, I talk about itin such a way that if somebody
has a 11, 12, 13 year old kid inthe car with them, if you are
(07:48):
ready to have an honest,vulnerable conversation with
that child, I'm not going totell you to listen.
But I would caution, you don'tnecessarily change it just
because we're talking about sex,cause I can promise you they
are hearing about sex.
So I would invite you toconsider listening to this
episode, because I'm not goingto, as we talked about, I'm not
going to share explicit stuff.
(08:09):
I'm not here to sensationalizeanything.
I'm here to talk about what itis to struggle, to feel hopeless
and now to live in hopeultimately.
And yeah, my specific addictionwas a very dark one and it
involved chasing after the highsthat came from sexual behavior.
But, um, yeah, I'm not here toto get gross and get weird.
(08:31):
Uh, that's, that's not what Ido.
So, um, in fact, one of myinterviews this was more of a
family overall focused episode,it was actually a part two, um,
so it was talking about, kind ofhow my wife and I parent
through the lens of recovery.
Um, but you know there's plentyof stuff about our story and
stuff like that.
But my oldest he's 12, helistened to it and he, he was,
(08:52):
he was mentioning some thingsafterwards later.
It just kind of gave me a kickbecause, um, like, he knows our
story anyway.
But, um, my, my story withsexual addiction started off
honestly, in like maybe the mostinnocent way somebody could
ever imagine.
And I mean that in a couple ofdifferent ways.
(09:12):
Because, number one so I'm thebaby of five.
I was raised in a family whereI had both my parents raising me
, four older siblings who youknow there's a perfect family,
but four older siblings whogenuinely generally got along
well.
They loved me, I felt cared for, I felt safe.
I never felt unsafe in my home.
I did not grow up in an abusive, traumatic household.
(09:35):
I did not grow up with some,you know, acute tragedy event
Like I had a very safe andcomfortable upbringing, like we
weren't spoiled, but like I, Ihad my needs taken care of, you
know, physically and emotionally, generally speaking.
And even in the introduction ofpornography, um, and and
(09:59):
sexuality here.
Here was my introduction topornography.
I call it my introduction topornography, but it wasn't porn,
it was me, as maybe 10 yearsold that's kind of the arbitrary
number I've picked out, becauseit was definitely way before I
didn't pre-puberty, I didn'tknow how sex worked and things
like that.
And I found in the once a yearJCPenney catalog, this giant
(10:21):
catalog, that in the middle ofthat there was a section where I
could find lingerie models andswimwear models.
So this was not an inherentlysexual thing, this was not a
pornographic thing, but it wasme.
It was the first time Isexually objectified images of
women and got a feeling out ofthat.
(10:42):
And I didn't know what thatfeeling was.
I didn't.
I didn't know any, didn'tunderstand dopamine or anything
like this, but I knew i'd'd liketo.
I felt, I felt that charge, Ifelt that rush.
So literally that was the startfor me.
And you know there was noplayboy magazine as you alluded
to.
I mean, there were.
Definitely there were nodevices around.
This would have been latenineties, like we had dial up
(11:06):
internet, but that wasn'tsomething that I could just hop
on real quick and float aroundthe internet.
So that's where it started.
I didn't I didn't need somecrazy event, you know, to
trigger this addiction.
I definitely didn't get pushedinto it.
I enjoyed how I felt and I andI wanted to chase after those
feelings and it was kind of a,especially considering what my
(11:29):
addiction looked like 10 yearslater, 12, 13 years later.
Um, it was a slow burn.
I mean, it took me severalyears before I was regularly
looking at hardcore videos, um,and you know, involving
masturbation with that and thatkind of thing.
That was like the next level,the next step, but it was.
(11:51):
It was a slow burn of chasingafter these highs.
And then it wasn't until I wasreally until I was 18, 19 years
old that I started.
Let me chase after this feelingwith real women.
Um, I as a kid, even as ateenager, I was never a shy
person, but I was a shy kidaround girls my age because I
(12:12):
felt ugly and I didn't think thegirls would like me, and so I
was definitely shy around mypeers, especially if they were
girls.
So I didn't try to flirt andseek out attention and try
things physically for a longtime because I was afraid of
rejection, I was afraid oflooking foolish and all these
things.
But once I started crossingover those barriers, I mean,
(12:33):
then it was like a dam and thenthings started getting very
progressive very fast.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
What was the breaking point for you?
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Okay, when you say breaking point, I think I
understand what you mean.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, I'll elaborate when I say breaking point.
When is it that you realized itwas an issue that you no longer
had control over and you knewthat you had to do something
about it?
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, yeah, because in a way, I could.
There's kind of like a couplemaybe there's a lot more too but
there's kind of a coupledifferent breaking points that I
could look at where thingsreally started to break in
various ways.
The first one, really, I wouldsay, would be six months after I
was married, six months afterwe said I do.
When, when we got married, june4th 2011 we were young, um, I
(13:20):
was 20, oh, I was 21.
I had already she'd done hermultiple times, um, not just
with pornography, uh, secretporn use, but also with real
women.
Um, I already she'd done hermultiple times and I felt
terrible, I felt shame, I hatedthat I did those things, but I
still would.
(13:40):
I was still kind of able tobelieve the lie that well, yeah,
this is terrible, but almostlike a six-month you know
bachelor trip, kind of lookingat, like this was terrible, but
like I won't do that once I'mmarried, this was terrible, but
once I'm a husband and I'll be adad, like, of course, I'm not
going to do that stuff.
So I still could believe thisstupid lie that I'll just clean
(14:02):
it up and I'll, I'll just flipthe switch off.
That's not how.
That's not how human behaviorworks.
Uh, once I've trained myself tochase after something and I get
that reward which ultimately,chemically that's what we're
talking about here that there'sno just off button.
But I got married and then itdidn't stop.
I hired a prostitute within thefirst year of my marriage
(14:25):
Continued.
I was a car salesman.
I was good at my job, notbecause I was the best
salesperson in terms of salestechniques or because I knew the
most about cars.
I was good at connecting withpeople and building rapport, and
that's not a bad thing.
But I absolutely abused that.
When it came to most women thatwere in my path, I would chase
(14:46):
after whatever I could getflirting or text response.
If I get something physical,whatever I could take, I took.
And so six months after we gotmarried, I felt so bad from all
of this and I did.
I did feel bad and so I wrote.
I wrote a letter to my wife andthis was the first time that I
confessed all this.
This was the first time thatanything other than she knew I
(15:08):
struggled with porn.
Anything else was confessed andI don't remember exactly like I
don't remember word for wordwhat I put in there, but I did
say that I had affairs and in myhead, here's another stupid lie
.
I thought I was done.
I thought, oh, I felt so badand I vomited onto the sheet of
paper.
Looking back on it, I alsovomited onto my wife because it
(15:32):
made me feel better.
To confess, it certainly didmake her feel better and there
was no changed behavior on myend.
But I would say, you know,around that time is the first
time that I really seriously sawokay, there's an issue here.
I'm married to this beautifulwoman who is doing everything
she can to be an incredible wifeand I'm not stopping.
(15:52):
In fact, it's only gettingworse.
There wasn't like a singularmoment where I had that
realization.
But I mean, ultimately, that'swhy I wrote the letter is
because I I did feel so bad inthere and there was fear there
and I thought the letter youknow her knowing about it when
that will kind of that'll be thepush I need to not do it.
And it didn't work because Ididn't change my infrastructure,
(16:13):
I didn't change my routines, Ididn't change how I approached
life.
You know, things I did, thepeople I hung out with.
None of that changed.
I just hoped that I would stopdoing the bad thing.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, do you think, if your wife would have left it
would have been somethingdifferent?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Well, for sure, for sure, I guess again, I'll ask
you if you can expand a littlebit and we say something
different.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
How I'm hearing the story is okay.
You confess something.
She had a big reaction but shedidn't leave.
(17:01):
So in our biology, in the wayaddiction works, well, you're
kind of giving me permission tocontinue, because you're not.
Addiction is still overpoweringof not seeing the appreciation
and gratitude and actually dothat inner work.
You know a lot of people maynot understand the way addiction
is so insidious in our mind.
(17:22):
You know the way the nervoussystem can trick you with
certain things and the way thatpeople show up with us Because
when you've finally said, okay,I did something and asked for
forgiveness, but they still stay.
If you don't take really theaccountability, it gives a
messaging that it's okay tocontinue with this Because the
(17:44):
cat's out of the bag and therewasn't really any consequence.
Was that something that youlooked at or that you felt or
that you were aware of?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
yeah, I mean I, I would completely agree and, of
course, like those are terriblewords to to say that, like there
was sort of a permission beingbeing granted, like and I or
let's use manipulation becausethat is is that's how I felt.
Obviously, that's not what mywife was trying to do, but that
(18:15):
is truly like that's kind ofwhat I took from.
It is not that I had permission, but I was free from her
consequences.
I was free from my maritalconsequences, right, and
ultimately, that's how Iapproach so much of this.
I never got an STD.
Now I, I, I didn't get testedfor several years.
(18:38):
So I'm not an STD expert.
I don't know what.
There's certain things thatcould have come and gone, but
there was no evidence of everhaving an STD.
Um, when I did get tested, youknow, everything was negative,
like I just assumed that thatwould happen.
(18:58):
I just assumed who I'm playingthat safe this way and that way.
Um, when I started hiringprostitutes, I remember having
the thought of like what if theyou know what if this is a sting
operation?
Or like what if this or what ifthat?
And I, I, I just I can play inthe fire and I'll know when to
jump out.
I mean, that's how I have gonethrough life.
And so I went through life forthe first two and a half decades
(19:21):
when it came to how I drove mycar, my finances, um, other
addictions had huge gamblingaddiction.
All this stuff was just wrappedup into this.
I can play in the fire and Iwill know the exact moment when
to jump out and not to not toget hurt too bad.
Um, and the reason why I wantedyour clarification but I at the
same time I was nodding my headis like, yeah, it certainly
(19:44):
would have been different.
Now here I don't play the likewhat, what if?
Game very much, yeah, yeah, no,it's not, I mean but.
But here's what I think probablywould have happened if, if,
carrie would have left meespecially like let's say, if
she left me um, you know, if Iconfessed the, you know if I
wrote that letter a month?
Speaker 1 (20:03):
after we got married like hey, I'm so sorry, but I
cheated on you multiple timesand she left me right, full
grounds to leave me.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
If she had done that, um, things would have been
drastically different on apractical sense, because now I'm
no longer married and now wedon't have these kids, um, I, I
think I, I absolutely would havejust continued down this track
and probably just gotten youknow, it would have just been
even more extreme.
I think there's a chance thatthe pain of that might have
maybe I would have, you know,been it would have just been
(20:31):
even more extreme.
I think there's a chance thatthe pain of that might've maybe
I would have, you know, been sobroken that I would have sought
help.
But I don't know.
Because, not to jump too farahead, but I mean the whole
reason why I jumped intorecovery, it wasn't really to
like heal myself, because Ididn't think that was possible.
I was trying to maybe keep mymarriage together.
I didn't think that I wouldever heal at, not at the start,
(20:51):
but I was willing to do somethings.
Um, so, and like to anyonelistening, please understand
everything that I've shared tothis point and even some of the
stuff that will come up later.
This is all descriptive.
Most of this is notprescriptive, like, my wife
absolutely had every right toleave me and, um, it wasn't
(21:12):
wrong for her not to leave me,but it would not have been wrong
for her to leave me and tostate very clearly that you
broke these.
This is why I'm leaving.
I always just want to make sureI'm putting that out there.
This is not the advice section.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, yeah, of course it's sharing what the story is
and you know everybody has thepower of choice and how they're
going to, you know live life andwhat they're going to engage in
and you know your wife did alot of warrior work to be able
to engage in that and still staywith the commitment.
(21:47):
Now, when you're speaking andyou said that you did the
recovery for something outsideof yourself, it wasn't for
anything inside of yourself.
It was like the marriage thatyou're trying to help and that
you didn't feel that there wasany possibility of healing
within yourself.
I didn't think it was likely.
I didn't think it was likelywithin yourself.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
I didn't think it was likely.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I didn't think it was likely.
Did you recognize now, today,do you recognize that that was
because you were not in yourworth?
Speaker 3 (22:19):
that's the way to put that um, very much so I mean,
yeah, there's, there's so much.
Um, this, I mean this giant, Iguess the, the shrek thing, the
giant onions with all theselayers, right, um, yeah, I mean
I, I viewed myself as acompletely uh, a worthless,
(22:42):
dried up husk of a person.
That was all I was doing, was Iwas like a bear trap sitting
out there that everyone's gonnajust snap and break somebody's
bone, like that's what I was,that's what I felt about myself.
I routinely would just wallowin how much I hated the fact
that my kids had to meet for adad, that Carrie had to meet for
(23:05):
a husband, and yet, like thatpain, that desperation, that
didn't equate to me stopping thebehavior.
Um, and because that's that'saddiction is is a really
powerful thing.
I, I do.
I always have choice and I lovethat.
You said that, that there isthe power of choice, and I will
(23:27):
always emphasize that.
So people don't get the wrongidea about addiction.
It doesn't mean that I'm notresponsible for my choices, but
it does mean that I'm operatingmore and more on my limbic
system and defense mechanismsand this happens.
So I do this to.
I'm going to figure out how toslow down and be able to make
(23:48):
the right choice, the moralchoice that instead of just the
limbic choice.
I'm getting off topic here no,but no, you're not.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
It's exactly what this is and it's feeling when
we're impulsive and we're tryingto do the hot potato offload
you're just jumping out of yourskin because it doesn't feel
good to be in your body.
We haven't created enough andespecially for men boys don't
cry so any kind of feeling ofvulnerability and sensitivity
(24:19):
coming up.
I'm going to armor and justoffload this Rather than, like
you said, explaining it so well,slowing it down.
And the slowing down is let mefeel what's going on internally,
rather than just going with thedefensive mechanisms.
Addiction is protecting you.
I know people may be like whatthe heck are you talking about?
(24:41):
To not be in your worth is verypainful.
You othered yourself out ofexistence and so to be in that
unsafety, that's a deep pain.
So anything that would give yousome sense of thrill and, as
you explained, you know theimpulsivity of driving and
(25:05):
finances it was like oh, you'readdicted to adrenaline.
Adrenaline gives us a reallygood rush, it's a really good
high.
And then when you go, ahead.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
When you say I mean addiction, you know the
protection of addiction here's Imean.
I speak in I statements for tworeasons.
Number one, quite honestly,because that's in my recovery
program.
That was a must.
Yeah, I started throwing out abunch of yous and wees and them
and those people.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
It's like I'm going to get real fast.
You're not in power.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
But then the other part is you know, I recognize
like there are some truths here,there are some absolute,
fundamental truths.
Um, it's not all just myopinion, but but you know, when
it's my story and my experience,I recognize that not everything
is going to be the same foreveryone.
So here my addiction.
In terms of my protection, Ialways I use the word
exoskeleton.
It was an exoskeleton that Ididn't intentionally create.
(26:05):
I didn't pick it like I was ina video game of the cocoon, the
protection, but it was also.
Of course it was sucking mysoul, right, and it was hurting.
(26:28):
It was toxic to everyone else,it was toxic to me, but it was
an exoskeleton and it wasattached to me.
And so, if anyone can imaginewalking around with a literal
exoskeleton, like a crustaceanthat is simultaneously poisoning
you and poisoning those aroundyou, but it is attached to you.
(26:51):
So yeah, eventually, in recovery, I mean, I got to a point where
there was the ability to havethat removed, but it wasn't
taking off a hoodie, it wasn'ttaking off a winter coat, it was
having this thing that wasembedded in me very deeply
ripped out.
And it wasn't going to be quick, it wasn't going to be easy and
it definitely was not going tobe painless.
(27:12):
And going back to that earlierthing, you know I didn't get in
recovery to remove thatexoskeleton.
I didn't even know I had anexoskeleton, but I'm so thankful
that it that it was removed,even though, yeah, it did mean
that for a while there thatfirst year or so and going
through recovery without myexoskeleton life hurt a little
bit more sometimes a lot a bitmore a lot more, a lot more.
(27:36):
I'm raw right, I'm vulnerableand I'm naked and it's like, ooh
, things sting a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, I'm feeling, cause you know, the addiction is
a numbing agent.
It's a numbing agent and itjust, but it's a numbing agent
that self inflicts even morepain.
It just doesn't feel like it inthe moment.
It just you don't realize.
It's building and building, andyou see, I have a little bit of
(28:02):
a different way with it notbeing ripped out.
It's the integration, so thatthis thing isn't inflamed
anymore and you understand morewhat fear is, what your nervous
system is.
It's recognizing that you know,when you are separated from
self, you're going to findeverything on the outside to
(28:25):
bring you back into thatconnection, into that worth, and
so to feel like it got removed.
If it ever comes to visit again,it's like whoa, whoa, whoa,
where I'm sure you've hadglimpses, where it these
sensations or feelings have cometo visit, and it's like, oh,
that's okay, I know who you are.
Yet where these sensations orfeelings have come to visit and
(28:46):
it's like, oh, that's okay, Iknow who you are.
Yet you're not allowed tohijack me anymore and I'm not
going to deny my past.
It's going to strengthen mebecause I'm not going to be in
shame of trying to hide what myexperiences were.
Yet when you come to visit.
You.
Don't get to do a muck anymoreexperiences were.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yet when you come to visit, you don't get to do a
muck anymore.
Well, in what?
Literally looping back to whatyou said earlier, the power of
choice.
That's one of the beauties ofwhat happens in recovery.
That happens nowadays and iswhat you just described, which
is, yeah, you know, I gettriggered, I get stressed and
and sometimes I make a badchoice.
Before when that would happen,it would be like I would make a
bad choice.
And then it was like, instantly, I'm careening down this
(29:28):
mudslide and I can't.
I it felt like I couldn't stop,I was just going to make a
bunch more bad choices.
And now it's like, okay, I'mmad about it, I made a bad
choice, or I'm triggered or I'mstressed.
I could make more of these if Iwant to, but do I want that?
(29:49):
Do I want these consequences?
And like I mean there's timeswhere I'm treating my wife and
this is this is gonna sound wildlike because we you know I've
jumped into recovery for sexualaddiction.
She's jumped into recovery forbetrayal trauma.
By god's grace, we have umexperienced so much healing and
transformation, not to get backto pre-betrayal, but to be
something completely differentand completely.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, you've transformed, right, you've
transmuted and transformed.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
So like there's times where we, we talk, and you know
, maybe I'm something happenedand I'm feeling a little
butthurt and I'm I kind of wantto wallow in it and I might look
over and chuckle and be likeall right, I think I'm going to
be in victim stance for about 10seconds and it's like it's like
(30:29):
it's it's.
It's kind of, on one hand, it'san inside joke, but it's also
like I'm gonna give myselfpermission to throw a fit
internally for a couple secondsand then, but then I'm gonna
correct it and it's like thisgoofy little thing, but it's
like I didn't, I didn't feellike I had the choice before to
just to turn that off, right,it's like if I started wallowing
in victim stance, if I startedwallowing in, you know, uh,
(30:51):
we'll call it corrosion andcutoff and and and just going
through and compartmentalizingon steroids and siloing my
emotions.
Once I started on that train, Icouldn't stop that thing.
It felt like I couldn't stopthat thing and I'm not saying
that it's good to, you know,throw an inner temper tantrum
for for even five secondsnecessarily, but to be able to
go, okay, like yeah, that'shappening right now, I'm being
(31:13):
immature, okay, let me go aheadand stop that Like compared to
what life used to be like, itfeels like there's a superpower
just because I I, I seeminglyhad no freedom of choice, even
though, as we keep talking about, I did, but I, I felt like I
couldn't slow life down enoughto recognize it you didn't know
(31:34):
you could feel yeah, it's themissing word that we all, you
know.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
when people are like, what do you?
What is this thing that you'retalking about?
And it's it's feeling.
You have to feel to be able tolisten to what the emotions were
and not just get stuck in yourpatterns, the default of anger,
the default of addiction.
Those are easy to access, toreally feel our authentic
emotions and slow things downand feel our vulnerability.
(32:01):
And slow things down and feelour vulnerability Doesn't feel
too good.
I want to bring you into areflective question.
I want to ask you to bring yourawareness right now and go back
to your 18-year-old self, andyou have three words you can
tell your 18-year-old self tocarry you to the journey of
(32:22):
right now.
What would those three words be?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
That's a heck of a challenge.
This is where I struggle to.
I want to give the perfectanswer, you know.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Just talk from the heart.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I mean the word that always, like you know, if you,
if you see my Instagram, if youlisten to my podcast, that the
word usually on the second halfof the interviews, the word
(32:55):
that's going to scream at you,that is like the heartbeat in me
and my recovery work and tryingto speak to this hope.
So maybe the three words wouldbe there is hope Because I mean
when I was 18, I wasn't hopeless.
When I was 19, I wasn't.
When I was married and hadcheated on my wife, I don't
think I was hopeless yet.
I was starting to get scaredwhen I was 22, 23 years old.
(33:17):
I've been married for two,three years.
I've got kids.
I'm still cheating on my wife,looking at porn all the time,
flirting with every woman,hurting.
I can't stop.
I feel like I can't stop.
I was hopeless.
There's some examples floatingin my head and I won't unless
(33:38):
you want me to, I won't sharethem because I don't want to be
triggering.
But in terms of what thathopelessness looks like, I
remember that hopelessness ofjust wishing so much, like God,
why did you put me on this earth?
Like I wish you would havenever created me, because then
Carrie could have somebody elsefor a husband, these boys can
have somebody else for a dad.
There was no way that I couldever have a life free from the
(34:04):
destruction that I was causing,let alone an actually like
enjoyable, fulfilling life whereI'm like doing doing work out
in the world helping others.
Um, I didn't think that waspossible.
I didn't think that waspossible.
So to know that there is hope,that if I only have three words,
(34:27):
that's, that's probably thethree that I would give.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
They're very powerful ones, very powerful ones.
Now I know the listeners arelike, okay, where can I find
Logan?
So can you let the listenersknow where they can find you and
what you have to offer?
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Yeah, so this is pretty skinny.
I do this as a ministry purely.
This is not my job.
I don't get paid from this, soall of my work is on podcasts on
Instagram.
No longer in bondage is myhandle, so at no period longer
period in period bondage.
I think if you actually searchthose words, that'll be the
(35:04):
first to come up, though, and Iput a lot of stuff out there to
bring awareness to sexualaddiction, sexual addiction
recovery, betrayal, trauma, andthis is not going to be B-roll
of waves hitting the beach witha motivational phrase that I got
off chat GPT.
This is, you know, me talkingabout my story and be talking
(35:28):
about stuff, real life stuff,tangible recovery tools.
I mean, if any part of this hasbeen helpful or insightful,
please check out the Instagram.
I think that you'll appreciatethat.
Um and a lot of you know clips,powerful clips from lots of
different interviews.
You know that's a lot of thecontent as well, and I will say
I've never had anything to likedangle out there before because
(35:52):
I haven't written a book, Idon't have a course that I'm
selling.
I was able to take part in areally awesome recovery summit
blessed family recovery.
I've got like a link that I cansend you.
I think if somebody, if you dmme or if you comment on one of
my posts saying, hey, um,talking about the summit,
something like mention thesummit, I can get you a link.
(36:14):
Um, what I'm every, every onethat took part in the summit, um
, you know, has a chance to givea free something.
And since, again, since I don'tsell courses or anything, I was
kind of at a loss.
But what I did was I set up um,two separate um.
There'll be a zoom, a groupzoom, and so I'm gonna, on two
(36:34):
different dates, uh, if somebodywants to join, that's something
they can do for free.
Um, and it'll be a time for Q&A.
I'll share a little bit of mystory, but mostly it'll be
ideally a Q&A where we can justtalk live time about this.
People have questions about howthey can proceed, you know, in
their own lives.
So that's something that Iwould offer up to you know, to
(36:57):
your listeners, if you hit me upon Instagram and I can get you
whatever you need to join onthat.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Okay, That'll be all in the show notes, so you're
able to click and get to Loganright away and, like he said,
just DM him or on his postsright summit, and he'll be able
to send you the link in theinformation.
I want to thank you, Logan, fordoing the alchemy in your life.
You've taken the impurities andyou've turned them into gold.
(37:24):
Yet you haven't kept the goldfor yourself.
You're sharing it with others.
So thank you for doing thatalchemy in your personal life
and sharing it out with othersso that they can be empowered in
seeing that there's lightwithin the darkness and you know
, at any time, anyone that waslistening, if there was an aha
(37:46):
moment or you felt like youheard your story within Logan's,
reach out to him.
That's your limbic systemgiving you a signal that there's
something there that you canrelate to.
So reach out to him and get inconnection with him.
Is there anything that youwould like to leave the
listeners?
That's in your heart that youthink might, you know, help
(38:08):
anybody in their journey or intheir recovery.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Sure, I really just to piggyback on what you just
said I promise you you, this isa powerful promise that I'm
making, but I mean it there isno pain, whether it's
(38:33):
self-inflicted or it's a traumathat you have experienced by
someone else's hand there is nopain that you can experience or
have experienced.
That number one there is nothealing from doesn't mean that
it's going to be an easierlinear path.
I'm sure it probably will notbe.
But in number two, thatsomebody else has not
(38:55):
experienced, we all have uniquetraits and we all have things
that separate us and make peopledifferent.
And that's a beautiful thing,that can be a beautiful thing.
But there are so many commondenominators, I mean, and the
amount of people that, whetherthey hear my story and they go,
oh my gosh, I didn't realizethat other people had done X, y,
z.
Guys that I work with you know,that have powerful stories, that
(39:18):
that you know, guys that havethey've done things or they've
experienced things or they'vebeen hurt in ways that I have
not.
But there's other guys thathave, and so just please, do not
let we.
There's a thinking error ofuniqueness that we talk about in
recovery and that can, that canmanifest in lots of different
(39:39):
ways, but the way it manifestshere would be i'm'm the only one
that suffered this trauma, orI'm the only one that suffers in
this way, I'm the only one thathas hurt people in this way.
So, therefore, why reach out?
Cause I'm going to look like aweirdo, I'm going to look like a
freak, I'm going to beembarrassed, shamed, all these
things.
I promise you there are otherpeople that are feeling the same
way about the exact same thing.
(39:59):
Do not let it be a reason notto reach out, Whether it be to
myself or maybe somebody elsewho's better suited, depending
on what it is that.
That's your story.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
You heard him.
Don't suffer alone.
There's people that are willingto witness your pain and show
you the greatness withinyourself.
So again, if at any time therewas an opening within yourself
that you know you were curiousabout logan, reach out to him.
His information will be in theshow notes so you're able to
(40:28):
click in and get in contact withhim.
I want to thank you, logan, forsharing your story, sharing
your experiences and being verytransparent.
I really appreciate you beinghere on the podcast and
enriching the lives of thelisteners.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
You're very welcome and thank you for the
opportunity of having me on.
I thank God for the opportunityto give back, to be able to
talk with people and just spreadthe light that, hey, there's a
way out of the cave.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah, please remember to be kind to yourself.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Hey, you made it all the way here.
I appreciate you and your time.
If you found value in thisconversation, please share it
out.
If there was somebody thatpopped into your mind, take
action and share it out withthem.
It possibly may not be themthat will benefit.
It's that they know somebodythat will benefit from listening
(41:23):
to this conversation.
So please take action and shareout the podcast.
You can find us on social mediaon Facebook, Instagram and
TikTok under Lift One Self, andif you want to inquire about the
work that I do and the servicesthat I provide to people, come
over on my website, Come into adiscovery call LiftOneSelfcom.
(41:48):
Until next time, pleaseremember to be kind and gentle
with yourself.
You matter.
Welcome to the Lift One Self podcast, where we break
mental health stigmas throughconversations.
I'm your host, nat Nat, and wedive into topics about trauma
and how it impacts the nervoussystem.
Yet we don't just leave youthere.
We share insights and tools ofself-care, meditation and growth
(00:21):
that help you be curious aboutyour own biology.
Your presence matters.
Please like and subscribe toour podcast.
Help our community grow.
Let's get into this.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Oh, and please remember to be kind to yourself.
Welcome to the Lift when Selfpodcast.
I'm your host, nat Nat, andtoday I have an amazing guest
that we're going to get into, avery spicy topic that you know
some people might be able torelate to, some people might
just be like.
I think I'm going to go to thenext episode.
(00:54):
Whatever is needed is needed,yet I think it's a topic that
needs to be discussed so that wecan start creating some change
and some dialogue around it.
So, logan, would you do us thehonors to introduce yourself and
let us know a little bit aboutyourself?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for having meon.
I'm Logan Hufford and I'm uphere in Alaska.
It's always cool to do apodcast with somebody in the
same spectrum, closer to theArctic Circle than it is to the
to the arctic circle than it isto the equator, even if
different countries right I.
I don't know how to introducemyself other than just to give a
little glimpse into my story,which is I'm here talking to you
(01:35):
because I absolutely have beengiven a a new lease on life when
it comes to mental health andaddiction and being trapped in
bondage and not knowing how toever be free from that or if I
even could be freed from that.
So the last eight plus yearshas been a continual journey of
(01:56):
recovery for me and this yearspecifically, I started going on
a broader, a little bit of abroader mission to reach folks
through podcasts and socialmedia and talk about sexual
addiction awareness so, as youheard, listeners, we're going to
get into the sexual addiction.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So for some that's maybe a trigger, for others it's
just not a topic that theyreally want to be engaged in.
So you know, as I always say,take care of yourself and at any
time in this conversation, ifthere's things that made you
feel out of sorts or anything,pause the podcast, take a moment
to process, take the time foryourself and, you know, unpause
(02:37):
it, come back to it.
It could be a couple of daysafter or it could be just a
couple of minutes, whatever isneeded for you.
So again, this whole intentionof this podcast is about
removing the stigma aroundmental health and sexual
addiction.
Unfortunately, a lot of peopleare afraid to start engaging and
talking about it, where I thinkit's very healthy to speak
(03:01):
about sex and what it can dowith our mind and what we can do
with our wounds to try to cope.
And by going in such anaddiction in that aspect, rather
than being able to, you know,feel authentically what our
emotions are.
Because addiction in its simpleform is avoidance of pain.
And what does sex do?
(03:22):
Sex brings pleasure.
So the two in itself, it'sreally to unpack, to better
understand and not have a blackand white thinking.
So, logan, I'm very thankfulthat you're here to bless the
listeners with your experience,your information, and that we
can engage in this conversation.
That's needed right now, andespecially for the younger
(03:45):
generation, that those parentsthat are listening, that they
can have a dialogue with theirchildren and stuff, because now,
with technology, there's allkinds of things that are
accessible to children that inmy generation you had to go to a
store or something like that,but now it's just at their
fingertips in their bedrooms.
So, before we get into thishighly charged conversation,
(04:10):
would you join me in a mindfulmoment so that we can ground
ourselves and connect in ourhearts and, as you know the
listeners, safety first.
I'm going to ask Logan andmyself to close our eyes, yet
most of you are probably drivingor running, so you need your
eyes open.
So safety first, please.
Yet the other prompts you'reable to follow with us.
(04:33):
So, logan, I'm going to ask youto get comfortable in your
seating and, if it's safe foryou, gently close your eyes and
you're going to begin breathingin and out through your nose and
you're going to bring yourawareness to watching your
breath go in and out.
(04:53):
You're not going to try andcontrol your breath.
You're just going to be awareof its rhythm, allowing it to
guide you in your body.
It to guide you in your body.
There may be some sensations orfeelings coming up, and that's
okay, let them come up.
You're safe to feel.
You're safe to let go.
(05:14):
Surrender the need to control,release the need to resist and
just be, be with your breaths,drop into your body.
Now.
There may be thoughts or to-dolists that have popped up in
(05:36):
your mind.
That's okay.
Gently bring your awarenessback to your breath, creating
(06:00):
space between the awareness andthe thoughts and dropping deeper
into your body, keeping thatawareness on your breath and
allowing yourself to just beagain.
More thoughts may have poppedup.
Bring your awareness to yourbreath, beginning again,
creating even more space betweenthe awareness and the thoughts
and dropping even deeper intothe body, allowing yourself to
(06:24):
be with the breath.
Just keeping your awareness onyour breath, keeping that
awareness with your breath,keeping that awareness with your
(06:44):
breath.
Now, at your own time and atyour own pace, you're going to
gently open your eyes whilestaying with the breath.
How's your heart doing?
I want to ask how did thejourney begin with the sexual
addiction?
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Yeah, and I am going to give just a quick little I
co-sign with everything you saidto your audience and then I
will just add this, this littlepiece you know, especially, as
you just said, everyonelistening, you know, to take
care of themselves and andknowing their themselves and
(07:26):
their past and their triggers,um, but here's how I go through
every podcast interview I'veever done.
Every when I'm talking aboutrecovery, talking about sexual
addiction, uh, I talk about itin such a way that if somebody
has a 11, 12, 13 year old kid inthe car with them, if you are
(07:48):
ready to have an honest,vulnerable conversation with
that child, I'm not going totell you to listen.
But I would caution, you don'tnecessarily change it just
because we're talking about sex,cause I can promise you they
are hearing about sex.
So I would invite you toconsider listening to this
episode, because I'm not goingto, as we talked about, I'm not
going to share explicit stuff.
(08:09):
I'm not here to sensationalizeanything.
I'm here to talk about what itis to struggle, to feel hopeless
and now to live in hopeultimately.
And yeah, my specific addictionwas a very dark one and it
involved chasing after the highsthat came from sexual behavior.
But, um, yeah, I'm not here toto get gross and get weird.
(08:31):
Uh, that's, that's not what Ido.
So, um, in fact, one of myinterviews this was more of a
family overall focused episode,it was actually a part two, um,
so it was talking about, kind ofhow my wife and I parent
through the lens of recovery.
Um, but you know there's plentyof stuff about our story and
stuff like that.
But my oldest he's 12, helistened to it and he, he was,
(08:52):
he was mentioning some thingsafterwards later.
It just kind of gave me a kickbecause, um, like, he knows our
story anyway.
But, um, my, my story withsexual addiction started off
honestly, in like maybe the mostinnocent way somebody could
ever imagine.
And I mean that in a couple ofdifferent ways.
(09:12):
Because, number one so I'm thebaby of five.
I was raised in a family whereI had both my parents raising me
, four older siblings who youknow there's a perfect family,
but four older siblings whogenuinely generally got along
well.
They loved me, I felt cared for, I felt safe.
I never felt unsafe in my home.
I did not grow up in an abusive, traumatic household.
(09:35):
I did not grow up with some,you know, acute tragedy event
Like I had a very safe andcomfortable upbringing, like we
weren't spoiled, but like I, Ihad my needs taken care of, you
know, physically and emotionally, generally speaking.
And even in the introduction ofpornography, um, and and
(09:59):
sexuality here.
Here was my introduction topornography.
I call it my introduction topornography, but it wasn't porn,
it was me, as maybe 10 yearsold that's kind of the arbitrary
number I've picked out, becauseit was definitely way before I
didn't pre-puberty, I didn'tknow how sex worked and things
like that.
And I found in the once a yearJCPenney catalog, this giant
(10:21):
catalog, that in the middle ofthat there was a section where I
could find lingerie models andswimwear models.
So this was not an inherentlysexual thing, this was not a
pornographic thing, but it wasme.
It was the first time Isexually objectified images of
women and got a feeling out ofthat.
(10:42):
And I didn't know what thatfeeling was.
I didn't.
I didn't know any, didn'tunderstand dopamine or anything
like this, but I knew i'd'd liketo.
I felt, I felt that charge, Ifelt that rush.
So literally that was the startfor me.
And you know there was noplayboy magazine as you alluded
to.
I mean, there were.
Definitely there were nodevices around.
This would have been latenineties, like we had dial up
(11:06):
internet, but that wasn'tsomething that I could just hop
on real quick and float aroundthe internet.
So that's where it started.
I didn't I didn't need somecrazy event, you know, to
trigger this addiction.
I definitely didn't get pushedinto it.
I enjoyed how I felt and I andI wanted to chase after those
feelings and it was kind of a,especially considering what my
(11:29):
addiction looked like 10 yearslater, 12, 13 years later.
Um, it was a slow burn.
I mean, it took me severalyears before I was regularly
looking at hardcore videos, um,and you know, involving
masturbation with that and thatkind of thing.
That was like the next level,the next step, but it was.
(11:51):
It was a slow burn of chasingafter these highs.
And then it wasn't until I wasreally until I was 18, 19 years
old that I started.
Let me chase after this feelingwith real women.
Um, I as a kid, even as ateenager, I was never a shy
person, but I was a shy kidaround girls my age because I
(12:12):
felt ugly and I didn't think thegirls would like me, and so I
was definitely shy around mypeers, especially if they were
girls.
So I didn't try to flirt andseek out attention and try
things physically for a longtime because I was afraid of
rejection, I was afraid oflooking foolish and all these
things.
But once I started crossingover those barriers, I mean,
(12:33):
then it was like a dam and thenthings started getting very
progressive very fast.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
What was the breaking point for you?
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Okay, when you say breaking point, I think I
understand what you mean.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, I'll elaborate when I say breaking point.
When is it that you realized itwas an issue that you no longer
had control over and you knewthat you had to do something
about it?
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, yeah, because in a way, I could.
There's kind of like a couplemaybe there's a lot more too but
there's kind of a coupledifferent breaking points that I
could look at where thingsreally started to break in
various ways.
The first one, really, I wouldsay, would be six months after I
was married, six months afterwe said I do.
When, when we got married, june4th 2011 we were young, um, I
(13:20):
was 20, oh, I was 21.
I had already she'd done hermultiple times, um, not just
with pornography, uh, secretporn use, but also with real
women.
Um, I already she'd done hermultiple times and I felt
terrible, I felt shame, I hatedthat I did those things, but I
still would.
(13:40):
I was still kind of able tobelieve the lie that well, yeah,
this is terrible, but almostlike a six-month you know
bachelor trip, kind of lookingat, like this was terrible, but
like I won't do that once I'mmarried, this was terrible, but
once I'm a husband and I'll be adad, like, of course, I'm not
going to do that stuff.
So I still could believe thisstupid lie that I'll just clean
(14:02):
it up and I'll, I'll just flipthe switch off.
That's not how.
That's not how human behaviorworks.
Uh, once I've trained myself tochase after something and I get
that reward which ultimately,chemically that's what we're
talking about here that there'sno just off button.
But I got married and then itdidn't stop.
I hired a prostitute within thefirst year of my marriage
(14:25):
Continued.
I was a car salesman.
I was good at my job, notbecause I was the best
salesperson in terms of salestechniques or because I knew the
most about cars.
I was good at connecting withpeople and building rapport, and
that's not a bad thing.
But I absolutely abused that.
When it came to most women thatwere in my path, I would chase
(14:46):
after whatever I could getflirting or text response.
If I get something physical,whatever I could take, I took.
And so six months after we gotmarried, I felt so bad from all
of this and I did.
I did feel bad and so I wrote.
I wrote a letter to my wife andthis was the first time that I
confessed all this.
This was the first time thatanything other than she knew I
(15:08):
struggled with porn.
Anything else was confessed andI don't remember exactly like I
don't remember word for wordwhat I put in there, but I did
say that I had affairs and in myhead, here's another stupid lie
.
I thought I was done.
I thought, oh, I felt so badand I vomited onto the sheet of
paper.
Looking back on it, I alsovomited onto my wife because it
(15:32):
made me feel better.
To confess, it certainly didmake her feel better and there
was no changed behavior on myend.
But I would say, you know,around that time is the first
time that I really seriously sawokay, there's an issue here.
I'm married to this beautifulwoman who is doing everything
she can to be an incredible wifeand I'm not stopping.
(15:52):
In fact, it's only gettingworse.
There wasn't like a singularmoment where I had that
realization.
But I mean, ultimately, that'swhy I wrote the letter is
because I I did feel so bad inthere and there was fear there
and I thought the letter youknow her knowing about it when
that will kind of that'll be thepush I need to not do it.
And it didn't work because Ididn't change my infrastructure,
(16:13):
I didn't change my routines, Ididn't change how I approached
life.
You know, things I did, thepeople I hung out with.
None of that changed.
I just hoped that I would stopdoing the bad thing.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, do you think, if your wife would have left it
would have been somethingdifferent?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Well, for sure, for sure, I guess again, I'll ask
you if you can expand a littlebit and we say something
different.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
How I'm hearing the story is okay.
You confess something.
She had a big reaction but shedidn't leave.
(17:01):
So in our biology, in the wayaddiction works, well, you're
kind of giving me permission tocontinue, because you're not.
Addiction is still overpoweringof not seeing the appreciation
and gratitude and actually dothat inner work.
You know a lot of people maynot understand the way addiction
is so insidious in our mind.
(17:22):
You know the way the nervoussystem can trick you with
certain things and the way thatpeople show up with us Because
when you've finally said, okay,I did something and asked for
forgiveness, but they still stay.
If you don't take really theaccountability, it gives a
messaging that it's okay tocontinue with this Because the
(17:44):
cat's out of the bag and therewasn't really any consequence.
Was that something that youlooked at or that you felt or
that you were aware of?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
yeah, I mean I, I would completely agree and, of
course, like those are terriblewords to to say that, like there
was sort of a permission beingbeing granted, like and I or
let's use manipulation becausethat is is that's how I felt.
Obviously, that's not what mywife was trying to do, but that
(18:15):
is truly like that's kind ofwhat I took from.
It is not that I had permission, but I was free from her
consequences.
I was free from my maritalconsequences, right, and
ultimately, that's how Iapproach so much of this.
I never got an STD.
Now I, I, I didn't get testedfor several years.
(18:38):
So I'm not an STD expert.
I don't know what.
There's certain things thatcould have come and gone, but
there was no evidence of everhaving an STD.
Um, when I did get tested, youknow, everything was negative,
like I just assumed that thatwould happen.
(18:58):
I just assumed who I'm playingthat safe this way and that way.
Um, when I started hiringprostitutes, I remember having
the thought of like what if theyou know what if this is a sting
operation?
Or like what if this or what ifthat?
And I, I, I just I can play inthe fire and I'll know when to
jump out.
I mean, that's how I have gonethrough life.
And so I went through life forthe first two and a half decades
(19:21):
when it came to how I drove mycar, my finances, um, other
addictions had huge gamblingaddiction.
All this stuff was just wrappedup into this.
I can play in the fire and Iwill know the exact moment when
to jump out and not to not toget hurt too bad.
Um, and the reason why I wantedyour clarification but I at the
same time I was nodding my headis like, yeah, it certainly
(19:44):
would have been different.
Now here I don't play the likewhat, what if?
Game very much, yeah, yeah, no,it's not, I mean but.
But here's what I think probablywould have happened if, if,
carrie would have left meespecially like let's say, if
she left me um, you know, if Iconfessed the, you know if I
wrote that letter a month?
Speaker 1 (20:03):
after we got married like hey, I'm so sorry, but I
cheated on you multiple timesand she left me right, full
grounds to leave me.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
If she had done that, um, things would have been
drastically different on apractical sense, because now I'm
no longer married and now wedon't have these kids, um, I, I
think I, I absolutely would havejust continued down this track
and probably just gotten youknow, it would have just been
even more extreme.
I think there's a chance thatthe pain of that might have
maybe I would have, you know,been it would have just been
(20:31):
even more extreme.
I think there's a chance thatthe pain of that might've maybe
I would have, you know, been sobroken that I would have sought
help.
But I don't know.
Because, not to jump too farahead, but I mean the whole
reason why I jumped intorecovery, it wasn't really to
like heal myself, because Ididn't think that was possible.
I was trying to maybe keep mymarriage together.
I didn't think that I wouldever heal at, not at the start,
(20:51):
but I was willing to do somethings.
Um, so, and like to anyonelistening, please understand
everything that I've shared tothis point and even some of the
stuff that will come up later.
This is all descriptive.
Most of this is notprescriptive, like, my wife
absolutely had every right toleave me and, um, it wasn't
(21:12):
wrong for her not to leave me,but it would not have been wrong
for her to leave me and tostate very clearly that you
broke these.
This is why I'm leaving.
I always just want to make sureI'm putting that out there.
This is not the advice section.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, yeah, of course it's sharing what the story is
and you know everybody has thepower of choice and how they're
going to, you know live life andwhat they're going to engage in
and you know your wife did alot of warrior work to be able
to engage in that and still staywith the commitment.
(21:47):
Now, when you're speaking andyou said that you did the
recovery for something outsideof yourself, it wasn't for
anything inside of yourself.
It was like the marriage thatyou're trying to help and that
you didn't feel that there wasany possibility of healing
within yourself.
I didn't think it was likely.
I didn't think it was likelywithin yourself.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
I didn't think it was likely.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I didn't think it was likely.
Did you recognize now, today,do you recognize that that was
because you were not in yourworth?
Speaker 3 (22:19):
that's the way to put that um, very much so I mean,
yeah, there's, there's so much.
Um, this, I mean this giant, Iguess the, the shrek thing, the
giant onions with all theselayers, right, um, yeah, I mean
I, I viewed myself as acompletely uh, a worthless,
(22:42):
dried up husk of a person.
That was all I was doing, was Iwas like a bear trap sitting
out there that everyone's gonnajust snap and break somebody's
bone, like that's what I was,that's what I felt about myself.
I routinely would just wallowin how much I hated the fact
that my kids had to meet for adad, that Carrie had to meet for
(23:05):
a husband, and yet, like thatpain, that desperation, that
didn't equate to me stopping thebehavior.
Um, and because that's that'saddiction is is a really
powerful thing.
I, I do.
I always have choice and I lovethat.
You said that, that there isthe power of choice, and I will
(23:27):
always emphasize that.
So people don't get the wrongidea about addiction.
It doesn't mean that I'm notresponsible for my choices, but
it does mean that I'm operatingmore and more on my limbic
system and defense mechanismsand this happens.
So I do this to.
I'm going to figure out how toslow down and be able to make
(23:48):
the right choice, the moralchoice that instead of just the
limbic choice.
I'm getting off topic here no,but no, you're not.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
It's exactly what this is and it's feeling when
we're impulsive and we're tryingto do the hot potato offload
you're just jumping out of yourskin because it doesn't feel
good to be in your body.
We haven't created enough andespecially for men boys don't
cry so any kind of feeling ofvulnerability and sensitivity
(24:19):
coming up.
I'm going to armor and justoffload this Rather than, like
you said, explaining it so well,slowing it down.
And the slowing down is let mefeel what's going on internally,
rather than just going with thedefensive mechanisms.
Addiction is protecting you.
I know people may be like whatthe heck are you talking about?
(24:41):
To not be in your worth is verypainful.
You othered yourself out ofexistence and so to be in that
unsafety, that's a deep pain.
So anything that would give yousome sense of thrill and, as
you explained, you know theimpulsivity of driving and
(25:05):
finances it was like oh, you'readdicted to adrenaline.
Adrenaline gives us a reallygood rush, it's a really good
high.
And then when you go, ahead.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
When you say I mean addiction, you know the
protection of addiction here's Imean.
I speak in I statements for tworeasons.
Number one, quite honestly,because that's in my recovery
program.
That was a must.
Yeah, I started throwing out abunch of yous and wees and them
and those people.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
It's like I'm going to get real fast.
You're not in power.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
But then the other part is you know, I recognize
like there are some truths here,there are some absolute,
fundamental truths.
Um, it's not all just myopinion, but but you know, when
it's my story and my experience,I recognize that not everything
is going to be the same foreveryone.
So here my addiction.
In terms of my protection, Ialways I use the word
exoskeleton.
It was an exoskeleton that Ididn't intentionally create.
(26:05):
I didn't pick it like I was ina video game of the cocoon, the
protection, but it was also.
Of course it was sucking mysoul, right, and it was hurting.
(26:28):
It was toxic to everyone else,it was toxic to me, but it was
an exoskeleton and it wasattached to me.
And so, if anyone can imaginewalking around with a literal
exoskeleton, like a crustaceanthat is simultaneously poisoning
you and poisoning those aroundyou, but it is attached to you.
(26:51):
So yeah, eventually, in recovery, I mean, I got to a point where
there was the ability to havethat removed, but it wasn't
taking off a hoodie, it wasn'ttaking off a winter coat, it was
having this thing that wasembedded in me very deeply
ripped out.
And it wasn't going to be quick, it wasn't going to be easy and
it definitely was not going tobe painless.
(27:12):
And going back to that earlierthing, you know I didn't get in
recovery to remove thatexoskeleton.
I didn't even know I had anexoskeleton, but I'm so thankful
that it that it was removed,even though, yeah, it did mean
that for a while there thatfirst year or so and going
through recovery without myexoskeleton life hurt a little
bit more sometimes a lot a bitmore a lot more, a lot more.
(27:36):
I'm raw right, I'm vulnerableand I'm naked and it's like, ooh
, things sting a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, I'm feeling, cause you know, the addiction is
a numbing agent.
It's a numbing agent and itjust, but it's a numbing agent
that self inflicts even morepain.
It just doesn't feel like it inthe moment.
It just you don't realize.
It's building and building, andyou see, I have a little bit of
(28:02):
a different way with it notbeing ripped out.
It's the integration, so thatthis thing isn't inflamed
anymore and you understand morewhat fear is, what your nervous
system is.
It's recognizing that you know,when you are separated from
self, you're going to findeverything on the outside to
(28:25):
bring you back into thatconnection, into that worth, and
so to feel like it got removed.
If it ever comes to visit again,it's like whoa, whoa, whoa,
where I'm sure you've hadglimpses, where it these
sensations or feelings have cometo visit, and it's like, oh,
that's okay, I know who you are.
Yet where these sensations orfeelings have come to visit and
(28:46):
it's like, oh, that's okay, Iknow who you are.
Yet you're not allowed tohijack me anymore and I'm not
going to deny my past.
It's going to strengthen mebecause I'm not going to be in
shame of trying to hide what myexperiences were.
Yet when you come to visit.
You.
Don't get to do a muck anymoreexperiences were.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yet when you come to visit, you don't get to do a
muck anymore.
Well, in what?
Literally looping back to whatyou said earlier, the power of
choice.
That's one of the beauties ofwhat happens in recovery.
That happens nowadays and iswhat you just described, which
is, yeah, you know, I gettriggered, I get stressed and
and sometimes I make a badchoice.
Before when that would happen,it would be like I would make a
bad choice.
And then it was like, instantly, I'm careening down this
(29:28):
mudslide and I can't.
I it felt like I couldn't stop,I was just going to make a
bunch more bad choices.
And now it's like, okay, I'mmad about it, I made a bad
choice, or I'm triggered or I'mstressed.
I could make more of these if Iwant to, but do I want that?
(29:49):
Do I want these consequences?
And like I mean there's timeswhere I'm treating my wife and
this is this is gonna sound wildlike because we you know I've
jumped into recovery for sexualaddiction.
She's jumped into recovery forbetrayal trauma.
By god's grace, we have umexperienced so much healing and
transformation, not to get backto pre-betrayal, but to be
something completely differentand completely.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, you've transformed, right, you've
transmuted and transformed.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
So like there's times where we, we talk, and you know
, maybe I'm something happenedand I'm feeling a little
butthurt and I'm I kind of wantto wallow in it and I might look
over and chuckle and be likeall right, I think I'm going to
be in victim stance for about 10seconds and it's like it's like
(30:29):
it's it's.
It's kind of, on one hand, it'san inside joke, but it's also
like I'm gonna give myselfpermission to throw a fit
internally for a couple secondsand then, but then I'm gonna
correct it and it's like thisgoofy little thing, but it's
like I didn't, I didn't feellike I had the choice before to
just to turn that off, right,it's like if I started wallowing
in victim stance, if I startedwallowing in, you know, uh,
(30:51):
we'll call it corrosion andcutoff and and and just going
through and compartmentalizingon steroids and siloing my
emotions.
Once I started on that train, Icouldn't stop that thing.
It felt like I couldn't stopthat thing and I'm not saying
that it's good to, you know,throw an inner temper tantrum
for for even five secondsnecessarily, but to be able to
go, okay, like yeah, that'shappening right now, I'm being
(31:13):
immature, okay, let me go aheadand stop that Like compared to
what life used to be like, itfeels like there's a superpower
just because I I, I seeminglyhad no freedom of choice, even
though, as we keep talking about, I did, but I, I felt like I
couldn't slow life down enoughto recognize it you didn't know
(31:34):
you could feel yeah, it's themissing word that we all, you
know.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
when people are like, what do you?
What is this thing that you'retalking about?
And it's it's feeling.
You have to feel to be able tolisten to what the emotions were
and not just get stuck in yourpatterns, the default of anger,
the default of addiction.
Those are easy to access, toreally feel our authentic
emotions and slow things downand feel our vulnerability.
(32:01):
And slow things down and feelour vulnerability Doesn't feel
too good.
I want to bring you into areflective question.
I want to ask you to bring yourawareness right now and go back
to your 18-year-old self, andyou have three words you can
tell your 18-year-old self tocarry you to the journey of
(32:22):
right now.
What would those three words be?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
That's a heck of a challenge.
This is where I struggle to.
I want to give the perfectanswer, you know.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Just talk from the heart.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I mean the word that always, like you know, if you,
if you see my Instagram, if youlisten to my podcast, that the
word usually on the second halfof the interviews, the word
(32:55):
that's going to scream at you,that is like the heartbeat in me
and my recovery work and tryingto speak to this hope.
So maybe the three words wouldbe there is hope Because I mean
when I was 18, I wasn't hopeless.
When I was 19, I wasn't.
When I was married and hadcheated on my wife, I don't
think I was hopeless yet.
I was starting to get scaredwhen I was 22, 23 years old.
(33:17):
I've been married for two,three years.
I've got kids.
I'm still cheating on my wife,looking at porn all the time,
flirting with every woman,hurting.
I can't stop.
I feel like I can't stop.
I was hopeless.
There's some examples floatingin my head and I won't unless
(33:38):
you want me to, I won't sharethem because I don't want to be
triggering.
But in terms of what thathopelessness looks like, I
remember that hopelessness ofjust wishing so much, like God,
why did you put me on this earth?
Like I wish you would havenever created me, because then
Carrie could have somebody elsefor a husband, these boys can
have somebody else for a dad.
There was no way that I couldever have a life free from the
(34:04):
destruction that I was causing,let alone an actually like
enjoyable, fulfilling life whereI'm like doing doing work out
in the world helping others.
Um, I didn't think that waspossible.
I didn't think that waspossible.
So to know that there is hope,that if I only have three words,
(34:27):
that's, that's probably thethree that I would give.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
They're very powerful ones, very powerful ones.
Now I know the listeners arelike, okay, where can I find
Logan?
So can you let the listenersknow where they can find you and
what you have to offer?
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Yeah, so this is pretty skinny.
I do this as a ministry purely.
This is not my job.
I don't get paid from this, soall of my work is on podcasts on
Instagram.
No longer in bondage is myhandle, so at no period longer
period in period bondage.
I think if you actually searchthose words, that'll be the
(35:04):
first to come up, though, and Iput a lot of stuff out there to
bring awareness to sexualaddiction, sexual addiction
recovery, betrayal, trauma, andthis is not going to be B-roll
of waves hitting the beach witha motivational phrase that I got
off chat GPT.
This is, you know, me talkingabout my story and be talking
(35:28):
about stuff, real life stuff,tangible recovery tools.
I mean, if any part of this hasbeen helpful or insightful,
please check out the Instagram.
I think that you'll appreciatethat.
Um and a lot of you know clips,powerful clips from lots of
different interviews.
You know that's a lot of thecontent as well, and I will say
I've never had anything to likedangle out there before because
(35:52):
I haven't written a book, Idon't have a course that I'm
selling.
I was able to take part in areally awesome recovery summit
blessed family recovery.
I've got like a link that I cansend you.
I think if somebody, if you dmme or if you comment on one of
my posts saying, hey, um,talking about the summit,
something like mention thesummit, I can get you a link.
(36:14):
Um, what I'm every, every onethat took part in the summit, um
, you know, has a chance to givea free something.
And since, again, since I don'tsell courses or anything, I was
kind of at a loss.
But what I did was I set up um,two separate um.
There'll be a zoom, a groupzoom, and so I'm gonna, on two
(36:34):
different dates, uh, if somebodywants to join, that's something
they can do for free.
Um, and it'll be a time for Q&A.
I'll share a little bit of mystory, but mostly it'll be
ideally a Q&A where we can justtalk live time about this.
People have questions about howthey can proceed, you know, in
their own lives.
So that's something that Iwould offer up to you know, to
(36:57):
your listeners, if you hit me upon Instagram and I can get you
whatever you need to join onthat.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Okay, That'll be all in the show notes, so you're
able to click and get to Loganright away and, like he said,
just DM him or on his postsright summit, and he'll be able
to send you the link in theinformation.
I want to thank you, Logan, fordoing the alchemy in your life.
You've taken the impurities andyou've turned them into gold.
(37:24):
Yet you haven't kept the goldfor yourself.
You're sharing it with others.
So thank you for doing thatalchemy in your personal life
and sharing it out with othersso that they can be empowered in
seeing that there's lightwithin the darkness and you know
, at any time, anyone that waslistening, if there was an aha
(37:46):
moment or you felt like youheard your story within Logan's,
reach out to him.
That's your limbic systemgiving you a signal that there's
something there that you canrelate to.
So reach out to him and get inconnection with him.
Is there anything that youwould like to leave the
listeners?
That's in your heart that youthink might, you know, help
(38:08):
anybody in their journey or intheir recovery.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Sure, I really just to piggyback on what you just
said I promise you you, this isa powerful promise that I'm
making, but I mean it there isno pain, whether it's
(38:33):
self-inflicted or it's a traumathat you have experienced by
someone else's hand there is nopain that you can experience or
have experienced.
That number one there is nothealing from doesn't mean that
it's going to be an easierlinear path.
I'm sure it probably will notbe.
But in number two, thatsomebody else has not
(38:55):
experienced, we all have uniquetraits and we all have things
that separate us and make peopledifferent.
And that's a beautiful thing,that can be a beautiful thing.
But there are so many commondenominators, I mean, and the
amount of people that, whetherthey hear my story and they go,
oh my gosh, I didn't realizethat other people had done X, y,
z.
Guys that I work with you know,that have powerful stories, that
(39:18):
that you know, guys that havethey've done things or they've
experienced things or they'vebeen hurt in ways that I have
not.
But there's other guys thathave, and so just please, do not
let we.
There's a thinking error ofuniqueness that we talk about in
recovery and that can, that canmanifest in lots of different
(39:39):
ways, but the way it manifestshere would be i'm'm the only one
that suffered this trauma, orI'm the only one that suffers in
this way, I'm the only one thathas hurt people in this way.
So, therefore, why reach out?
Cause I'm going to look like aweirdo, I'm going to look like a
freak, I'm going to beembarrassed, shamed, all these
things.
I promise you there are otherpeople that are feeling the same
way about the exact same thing.
(39:59):
Do not let it be a reason notto reach out, Whether it be to
myself or maybe somebody elsewho's better suited, depending
on what it is that.
That's your story.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
You heard him.
Don't suffer alone.
There's people that are willingto witness your pain and show
you the greatness withinyourself.
So again, if at any time therewas an opening within yourself
that you know you were curiousabout logan, reach out to him.
His information will be in theshow notes so you're able to
(40:28):
click in and get in contact withhim.
I want to thank you, logan, forsharing your story, sharing
your experiences and being verytransparent.
I really appreciate you beinghere on the podcast and
enriching the lives of thelisteners.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
You're very welcome and thank you for the
opportunity of having me on.
I thank God for the opportunityto give back, to be able to
talk with people and just spreadthe light that, hey, there's a
way out of the cave.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah, please remember to be kind to yourself.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Hey, you made it all the way here.
I appreciate you and your time.
If you found value in thisconversation, please share it
out.
If there was somebody thatpopped into your mind, take
action and share it out withthem.
It possibly may not be themthat will benefit.
It's that they know somebodythat will benefit from listening
(41:23):
to this conversation.
So please take action and shareout the podcast.
You can find us on social mediaon Facebook, Instagram and
TikTok under Lift One Self, andif you want to inquire about the
work that I do and the servicesthat I provide to people, come
over on my website, Come into adiscovery call LiftOneSelfcom.
(41:48):
Until next time, pleaseremember to be kind and gentle
with yourself.
You matter.
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