September 19, 2025 • 53 mins
Dr. Ronica Jacobs (Dr. Ro) transforms our understanding of resilience, challenging the notion that it means pushing through hardship without showing emotion or asking for help. She shares her journey from defining resilience as toughness to recognizing it as self-awareness and knowing when to seek support.
• Resilience is unique to each person and manifests differently depending on individual circumstances
• True resilience involves giving yourself grace rather than demanding perfection
• Emotional intelligence is crucial for building resilience and healthy relationships
• Survival mode keeps us in our "reptilian brain," preventing effective problem-solving
• When chaos becomes familiar, we subconsciously recreate crisis situations
• Children need explicit teaching of emotional skills alongside academic development
• Coaching provides objective support that friends and family often cannot offer
• Authenticity means staying true to yourself rather than adapting to please others
You can find Dr. Ro's podcast "Life Jacked: The Resilience Podcast" on all streaming platforms. For coaching services or to purchase her Ultimate Self-Reflection Journal, visit www.ronicaljacobs.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, welcome to the Lift One Self podcast.
I'm your host, nat Nat, and, asyou hear with the giggles me
and Dr Roe, we're alreadytalking and conversating before
we press record.
So you know this is going to bea joyful conversation in depth.
We're going to get intoboundaries, resilience and what
(00:23):
it would really mean if you wereauthentically yourself, without
the should or who you think youought to be, or the
expectations of others.
So, dr Rowe, would you be sogracious to introduce yourself
to myself and the listeners,because I was on your podcast so
I didn't get to really knowabout you.
You asked a lot about me, sonow you're on the hot seat, so
(00:45):
could you let the listeners knowabout yourself and you know
what makes you Dr Rowe?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yes, nat, nat, hi, I am so excited to be on this side
of the mic for once.
Yes, you were a guest on myshow and it's such a wonderful
episode so you know it wasauthentic.
It was about mindfulness andabout meditation.
I loved it so much.
There was, you know, a lot ofdownloads for your episode, so
(01:13):
it's really, really cool.
So a little bit about me.
So my name is Dr Ronika Jacobs,but I go by Dr Ro and I have a
doctorate in educationalleadership, but it's actually in
transformation, leadership andinquiry, so that's kind of
studied.
That started my journey intostudying about change, why we
(01:39):
change, why we don't want tochange, don't want to change,
why we resist change and whatmakes us, you know, want to try
new things.
And I, out of that came thedesire to kind of learn also
(02:00):
about resilience, becauseresilience is also wrapped into
that and I found out that Imyself is, I am incredibly
resilient.
I mean, I think people havekind of told me that throughout
my life.
They just automatically assumeyou know that I don't go through
anything, and they say you'rejust so resilient, you just kind
of, you know, bounce back,you're always happy, you're
always, you know, going throughthings and it's really great and
I wish I could be strong likeyou and I would always be like I
(02:22):
go through things all the time.
What are you talking about, so?
But but then I started thinkingabout well, why is it that I go
through things and I can bounceback and come out on the other
side?
And I started studying that,and so I decided to become a
resilience coach and then Istarted my podcast called Life
Jacked the resilience podcast,and so life jacked.
(02:44):
Basically, you know whensomething unexpected happens to
jack with your life, right?
So if you think about beingcarjacked, you're driving along
in your car and somebody comesalong it's like, hey, give me
your car, right, and you getcarjacked.
Well, the same thing happens inlife.
So we're going on along in lifeand we're just doing our thing
(03:04):
and then something, either minoror major or catastrophic, comes
along and kind of knocks us offcourse and we have to figure
out how to navigate that, and sosometimes it's devastating and
it totally changes our wholeentire you know um out life,
outlook and life, um.
And then sometimes they're justminor setbacks, right, and we
(03:25):
just kind of have to, you know,brush ourselves off, pick
ourselves up and, just you know,step forward.
But yeah, so I'm a resiliencecoach and so I do resilience
coaching with clients and theycan book sessions with me and we
kind of work through thatresilience process.
Everyone is on the spectrum atone end or the other Right, as
as termed in terms of resilience, but I've learned that
resilience is a muscle Right.
(03:45):
Everyone is on the spectrum atone end or the other right In
terms of resilience, but I'velearned that resilience is a
muscle right.
So just like you work out atthe gym or whatever you do, and
you practice at it, well,resilience is, it works the same
way.
But you know, I have a podcast.
It's pretty much everywherethat you listen to podcasts or
you can go right to my website,which you know I'll share at the
(04:08):
end of this episode.
But that is just a little bitabout me.
I'm a mom.
I live in Houston, texas.
I'm a mom of three fantasticboys.
Actually, one is not a boy,he's a young man now, so he's an
adult.
And then I have two otherchildren, two other sons, and
I'm an educator by trade, so I'ma multilingual educator.
(04:31):
I do speak Spanish and Frenchand I see, yes, I see, look we
sometimes I can confuse the twolanguages.
Oui, j'ai parlé français.
And what else?
And I'm a proud member of DeltaSigma, theta Sorority
Incorporated.
I just celebrated 20 years inthis wonderful organization so
(04:55):
great sisterhood.
Congrats congrats.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
That's about me, okay .
So there's a lot I want to gointo and, like we said, we're
going to talk about resilienceand what that definition is and
what that looks like.
You know it's a very bigbuzzword right now.
Yet people are like, especiallywhen they've gone through a lot
of painful experiences, andpeople will tell them resilience
(05:18):
, but they're like I don't wantto hear that and I don't want to
experience any more resilienceyet really being able to shift
the definition of that in ourconversation.
And you know the boundaries andalso the shoulds and
expectations that we place onourselves that can shackle our
authenticity.
So, before we get into that,will you join me in a mindful
(05:41):
moment so we can groundourselves and, you know, meet
ourselves in presence and in themoment.
Absolutely okay.
And for the listeners, all youhear my safety spill.
Uh, safety first.
Please don't close your eyeswhen I ask.
Yet the other prompts you'reable to follow through.
So, dr rowe, I'll ask you toget comfortable in your seating
(06:02):
and, if it's safe to do so,you're going to gently close
your eyes and you're going tobring your awareness to watching
your breath go in and outthrough your nose.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
You're not going to try and control your breath.
You're just going to be awareof its rhythm, allowing it to
guide you into your body.
There may be some sensations orfeelings coming up, and that's
okay.
You're safe to feel.
You're safe to let go.
(06:35):
Surrender the need to control,release the need to resist and
just be, be with your breath.
Release the need to resist andjust be, be with your breath.
Drop deeper into your body.
Now there may be some thoughtsor to-do lists or perhaps some
(06:57):
memories have popped up.
It's okay.
Gently bring your awareness backto your breath, creating space
between the awareness and thethoughts and dropping deeper
into the body, being in thespace of presence, of being.
Again, more thoughts may havepopped up.
(07:20):
Gently bring your awarenessback to your breath, creating
even more space between theawareness and the thoughts and
completely surrendering into thebody, into the moment, into
being.
Whenever you notice that yourawareness has left the breath,
(07:54):
just begin again and bring itback to your breath, just
allowing there to be opennessand space, also doing a check-in
with your body that you may nothave noticed any tension in
your shoulders or knots in yourstomach or anything that may
have been stored in there.
That's finally feeling safe tocome up your senses, being with
(08:28):
your breath, at your own timeand at your own pace.
You're going to gently openyour eyes while staying with
your breath.
How's your heart doing Good?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Good.
What does resilience mean foryou?
How has the definition evolvedfor you?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So the interesting thing is, I used to think that
being resilient meant that youhad to be strong and you had to
know what you're supposed to do,and you just fight through it
and you push through and you donknow, you don't cry, right, and
(09:07):
so, whatever happens, you justhandle it right away and you
just have to know what resourcesyou have and you just push
through, and then you getthrough it and then on to the
next thing.
However, as I've been doing theresilience work, I have
discovered that resilience isunique to each one of us.
(09:32):
There's no real way to defineit because it shows up
differently in each person.
And now I recognize thatresilience could mean
recognizing to ask for help orwhen you need to ask for help,
(09:53):
that it's not about being strongall the time.
It's not about handling it byyourself.
Now, in the general sense, itis about pushing through and
getting over the hump right,pushing through the challenges.
It's not giving up.
It's definitely that it's notgiving up.
It's knowing that this is atemporary pain or a temporary
(10:17):
inconvenience, not taking awaythat it may be bad, right, and
that it's a negative experience.
But you know, for me now it'sbeing incredibly self-aware and
recognizing that sometimes youdon't have to have everything
(10:38):
figured out, that if you want tocry for a day, you know.
If you want to lay in the bedfor a day and process it, you
can do that.
But now I recognize like, ok, Ican take a moment, I can
breathe and I can really think.
(10:58):
I don't have to react orrespond right away, unless it's
something you know life altering, you're in danger or whatever.
But for me now it's more of athing where I'm taking a moment,
pausing, reflecting, and if Ineed to ask for help, I ask for
(11:19):
help.
If it's something that I need tostop doing right because I
could have caused this myself,it's because sometimes things
are self-induced, sometimes ourlife jacked moments can be
self-induced, which is very hardto take accountability for.
Yeah, but putting a plan inplace and taking one day at a
(11:42):
time and, as they say, how doyou eat an elephant?
Piece by piece, bit by bit,bite by bite, and that's really
what it is but knowing thatthere's a goal and each step
that you take, each task thatyou complete, each action right,
(12:04):
each event will eventually leadyou to your goal you see, you
said in your definition it wasto be strong, to push through,
to kind of have this armor.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Do you now allow softness to come in and
gentleness and kindness, withthat resilience?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Absolutely, because the one thing I give myself now
is grace and that's something Idid not give myself before.
The interesting thing aboutthinking about yourself right,
we all think about ourselves.
We all have this picture rightOf ourselves that we think we
(12:47):
present to the world or that wethink we have to present to the
world.
And the interesting thing is weare the meanest people to
ourselves.
We are the absolute meanest.
I mean we can talk about ourweight, we can talk about our
hair, our skin tone, all thesephysical attributes, and we can
just really rag on ourselves.
(13:10):
Which is interesting, becauseif you were to approach someone
else on the street or in yourfamily or whatever, you wouldn't
just sit there and berate themfor hours or minutes or whatever
in the mirror.
Like you know, we do it toourselves in the mirror.
We always think, oh, you knowwhat I'm stupid, you know what?
Oh my gosh, I can't believe Idid that.
But you don't say that tosomeone else.
(13:30):
He's like I hope you don't.
You know you don't sit thereand if someone makes a mistake
and tell them over and over howdumb they are, right, but when
we make a mistake, that's whatwe do to ourselves sometimes,
like we're totally fine withdoing that, and so that's why I
(13:51):
say we can be the meanest toourselves, we can be kind to
others.
But it's like, why can't youtake that kindness that you have
towards, that you show towardsother people, and bring that
inward and be kind to yourselfas well?
Give yourself grace, recognizethat you're going to make a
mistake, you're going to mess up.
You're not going to be perfectall the time, and that's
something that I've had to learnto adjust to.
(14:13):
Is that, you know, I want to doeverything right, I want to be
perfect, I want to, you know,and it's, it's unrealistic, it
just doesn't make any sense atall.
And so that's something that Ihad to recognize is that I had
to give myself grace and not saylike, oh yeah, you know, I'm
kind to myself and I say a bunchof affirmations in the mirror
(14:33):
in the morning.
It's not just that, it's liketruly giving yourself grace.
If you mess up, you know notbeing ashamed.
Being ashamed, lay that shamedown, lay it down.
Brene Brown says that lay thatshame down Like it's not yours
to carry, it's not, it's noteven necessary, because it
(14:55):
doesn't do anything, it doesn'thelp.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Mm, hmm, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
And you know, I know some listeners are like easier
said than done, like that's anintellectual theory, and I think
that's what I think sometimescauses some harm with people
where we're like just lay theshame down, just, and it's like,
well, intellectually that's alleasy.
Yet my body isn't allowing meto really process what the
(15:20):
deeper feelings, because shameis a protective emotion.
Yeah, it's, you know,protecting.
Possibly most of the time it'shelplessness or some
accountability of having to see,oh, the thing that you said you
would never do, you possiblydid.
And it can be very difficultand humbling to swallow your
truth.
We would like to be believethat we're all kumbaya and we
(15:44):
don't do any wrong and it's likeno, there's no such thing.
You're human, like there'sthings that you don't realize,
that you know it stings somebodythe wrong way, it makes them,
another person, feel inferior orwhatnot.
I think you know for myself,with resilience, as you said,
you know, that hardness andpushing through that was a lot
(16:07):
of survival.
I didn't realize howdysregulated my nervous system
was and how, you know, as yousaid, life jacked my emotions,
that I wasn't feeling in.
The fear were hijacking mybehavior and thinking that I had
to be this certain way and denymy body from feeling so that I
(16:27):
could push through.
And sometimes you know whenthere's certain things you're
doing that, yet that only lastsfor so long before the body, you
know, starts to be like wecan't do this anymore.
Hello, right, hello.
So for yourself, have youalways been in tune with your
(16:49):
emotions, or has that been aprocess?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
That actually has been a process as well.
I come from a family, again, Ithink that's.
You know we learn how to be,initially when we're young,
right From the models of thepeople in our family.
And you know, I come from afamily where you're strong and
you push through and you don'tcry and you know if you cry it's
(17:16):
not going to do anything anyway.
So, just, you know, keep going,right.
And so we didn't really shareand show a lot of emotion.
And so that's what I learned atfirst, right, and I didn't
share a lot of my emotionsinitially.
And then what would happen isbecause I didn't share my
emotions and I would hold themin and hold them in and hold
them in right, but then I wouldexplode Because I've spent all
(17:39):
this time holding my emotions inand not sharing how I was
feeling.
And then, once I got ready toshare with someone, then it
would be this vomiting ofemotions, whether it's like
happiness or sadness or anger.
It just would just be like hereyou go, take all my emotions,
and everybody you know, whoeverI'm talking to would be like oh
(18:01):
my God, this is a lot, it's alot.
And so over time, I've had tolearn emotional intelligence.
How do you manage your emotions?
Right, because we have thishuge repertoire of emotions,
right?
So it's not that we're notsupposed to be angry, it's not
that we're not supposed to besad, we're not supposed to be
(18:23):
extremely excited, but it's notthat we're not supposed to be
sad, we're not supposed to beextremely excited, but it's all
in how you manage those emotionsright.
So you can still be angry withsomeone, because that's healthy,
because sometimes people pissyou off, right, and you're
supposed to be angry about it,because if you're not angry
about it, then you're justaccepting that someone is going
to, you know, make you mad or bemean to you, and you you're
(18:44):
just like okay, you know.
So it's okay to be angry, butit's how you manage that
particular emotion and it's justlike you know, building
resilience and understanding howto get from you know one event
to the next.
If I've had a setback, andemotions are wrapped up into
that as well.
And so I've had to learn how tomanage my emotions and use them
(19:08):
appropriately and apply themappropriately to life.
And I had to practice that andI had to learn like okay, so
when I'm angry, but then how doI communicate that I'm angry,
but in a safe way for myself andwhoever my anger is directed
towards, because, like I said,there's nothing wrong with you
(19:29):
being angry.
You can share with someone thatyou're upset.
Hey, this thing that you did,that was not okay and that has
made me angry.
So what I would like in thefuture is this Is that something
that you think you can do inthe future?
Is this?
Is that something that youthink you can do?
But it does take some practiceand I've had to learn all of
(19:50):
those skills.
But what I've recognized is myrelationships with people, my
interactions with people, haveimproved, because now I'm able
to communicate the emotions thatI want to communicate.
So now I've trickled that downto my children, to my sons, and
we have those same conversations, um, and I can tell you, you
(20:11):
know, um, if I yell because I'mupset about hey you know the
grind shop, clean the, you knowdishes and the kitchen is dirty
and all these things, right.
But now because, right, boys,right, but now I feel safe that
I can be vulnerable and show mychildren what vulnerability
(20:33):
looks like.
And what that looks like is, Isay, you know what?
Mom lost control and that wasnot okay.
And I apologize, although I'mstill upset.
And I apologize although I'mstill upset, because you all had
the responsibility to take outthe trash or do the dishes, or
vacuum the living room or cleanthe movie room, whatever it may
be.
(20:57):
However, I did not have theright to lose control.
So, as you can see, like I said, I still communicated that, hey
, I'm upset and I'm not happy orI'm angry with the fact that
you did not follow through oryou know you weren't responsible
.
So I'm still communicating myemotion but, at the same time,
I'm taking responsibility andaccountability for, hey, but it
didn't give me the right to yelland fuss, it didn't give me a
(21:19):
right to do that Because andalthough I know that may seem
like, oh, that's that gentleparenting thing but I'm still
holding my children accountable,right, I'm still cause.
I'm saying this was theexpectation that was not met and
so, as a result, I'm angryabout that.
But what I've learned is, when Ido that now, because those are
(21:41):
the conversations, so now theyare able to have those
conversations with each otherand they're able to have that
conversation with me, and so I'mthinking rightfully, so they're
also able to have thoseconversations with other people.
And so now, as young menbecause sometimes they say, men
don't know how to process theiremotions and their so hopefully
(22:02):
I have these young men who aregoing to grow up into adult men
and they're able to communicatewith others and process their
emotions appropriately and then,whatever comes their way,
they're able to deal with it.
And so that's that buildingresilience, that's being able to
push through, bounce back, butat the same time, not being
(22:23):
tough right, not being tough,and you know I've got to be
tough and you know you knownothing like that, but it's more
so of being self-aware of thisis the emotion that I'm feeling
about whatever is going on, butthis is my plan to fix it and to
move forward.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah, I want to highlight the gentle parenting
because I understand I come froma Caribbean background,
canadian and Caribbean, canadianand Caribbean, and you know
corporal punishment can be atthe forefront of that, that
that's the only way thatchildren can learn where it's
(23:03):
like.
Well, no, if you realize you'renot able to communicate and if
we recognize too, as soon asemotions come into the dialogue
and accountability of showingour own emotions and that we're
human, all of a sudden thatseems like it's gentle, it's too
soft, they should know betterwhere it's like.
Oh well, you just want to keeprepeating the same thing and
(23:23):
change is actually revealing andshowing your inner state.
Like I take it a little bitfurther at times because my
neurosis, I see a certain messand it reminds me of my
childhood and what I was forcedto do.
So I'm articulating to the boysnow, like when I see this I
know it's not a big deal to youguys, you guys have no meaning,
(23:44):
it doesn't bother you, itdoesn't for me, it sends my
brain going cuckoo.
So when it goes cuckoo and I'mnot able to access it, the
neurotic mom comes out and shestarts yelling because I've
asked you in language and you'renot hearing me and I'm asking
for help.
I'm not just telling you,sometimes I have to tell you
(24:05):
guys, and and start with theyelling and I'm, I'm really
working hard at that.
We don't have to repeat thiskind of pattern yet I'm not.
That's not the way tocommunicate.
Yet also recognize theresponsibility on your part of
you have to coexist with otherhumans and you know, so really
you know, working through thatinner process too, that a lot of
(24:28):
times the older generation youwould never hear any apology or
what their inner state andconflict, because they don't
even know at times to be able toaccess that.
And I, like I think what peopleget wrong is with gentle
parenting.
They think it's supposed to bepassive and that emotions are
(24:49):
supposed to hijack and that youwere supposed to.
You know, as I say to myclients and anyone that will
listen, if you're going tobecome a parent, the most
difficult thing is witnessingthe pain in your children, and
sometimes that pain iswitnessing them go through
emotional turmoil, turmoil, sothat emotion right.
(25:14):
So when you see them doing theirtemper tantrums and it can be
in their teens and you're likeyou shouldn't be doing this and
it's like, oh, but I just took atemper tantrum by yelling at
you not doing your dishes.
But our mind creates this kindof hypocrisy to help the image
that we have of perfection thatfeels like safety rather than
(25:36):
the messiness of being human andseeing like there is no age gap
for temper tantrums.
Temper tantrums are emotionsbeing felt and we just don't
know how to communicate.
That's it.
That's really it.
Yes, and I think this is onething I want to help.
(25:57):
You know, cultivate in theAfrican-American Caribbean
diaspora that we need to startbringing emotions in, and I know
it's uncomfortable.
And then people are like well,what are you supposed to do with
that?
Well, you feel them and youprocess them and you start being
there for yourself rather thanprojecting on everybody and
dictating to everybody else thatthey're to make you feel better
(26:18):
.
Like how many parents areputting expectations on their
children to be a certain way, sothat they can feel a sense of
worth and validation and value?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
No, absolutely, no, absolutely.
That really is what it is,because I had to recognize that.
Okay, my children are in myhome for a temporary time.
Right, they're going to beoutside of my home more times
than they're inside of my home.
So when I send them out intothe world, are they going to be
people who are able to interactwith others?
(26:50):
And what does that look like?
Are they going in?
Because I have to give themskills, because one of the
things that I recognize as aneducator is that many students
are lacking skills.
Right, and I don't.
I know we like to play the blamegame, right?
Oh, it's the school.
The school and the teachers arenot teaching enough.
No, no, no, it's home.
(27:10):
Home is not teaching themenough.
You know, whatever it may be,and I really think it's home
home is not teaching them enough.
You know, whatever it may be,and I really think it's just the
whole entire our society period.
We have stopped teaching skills,we've stopped, we've kind of
skipped over it in a sense.
Right, it's just like childrenare born and then it's just a
rat race from there.
(27:30):
We're trying to, you know, makesure, make sure they are, you
know, cognitively, you knowsmart and they're, you know,
they're faced with the brightesttoys, and then there's
technology, and then there'ssports, and then they're
participating in this, and thenthere's dance and there's
gymnastics, and we're trying to,we're building those types of
skills, the physical skills,right, all these things that you
(27:54):
, you know they do hurt us inlife, but we forget about the
emotional pieces, the actualday-to-day.
How do I function as a humanwith other humans in life?
And I feel like, for that,we've just kind of left that up
to kids to kind of figure out.
And that's the problem is.
(28:15):
Well, that's not something thatyou can really figure out, and
you do really have to sit downand give your children skills.
You really really do, you know.
So, while you're thinking aboutfinancial literacy and while
you're thinking about, you know,making sure that they can make
them something to eat, but alsoremember that being able to
(28:37):
communicate is huge as well, andyou know, but sometimes some of
us don't quite know how tocommunicate very well, and so it
ends up being, you know thiscycle generation after
generation of people not beingable to communicate well.
But you also have to thinkabout, you have to have
accountability on yourself too.
There's a reason why you getthis, a certain type of response
(29:02):
from people, and you're likewhy is this?
Every time I turn around,somebody's responding to me in
this certain way.
I don't know what it is.
You're gonna have to look deepinto that, you know, due to
self-assessment, like why isthat happening?
Because that's something that Ilearned.
When you are constantlyexperiencing the same thing over
and over, that's the lesson,that's what you're supposed to
(29:24):
learn from, and until you learnthat lesson, it's going to keep
showing up.
God is going to keep putting itin your face.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
We are pattern makers and as soon as you think you've
dissolved the pattern, itbuilds itself right back up.
That's just.
You know self-preservation, andit's the defense mechanisms of,
you know, the nervous system,which is the ego.
So unless it feels safe toreally release it, it's always
going to come back up and ittakes a lot of work.
You know what people don'trealize too.
(29:54):
If you didn't havecommunication or if you didn't
have secure attachments from ayoung age, your work is going to
be a lot more than somebodythat was securely attached.
Is it unfair?
Yeah, does it suck?
Yeah, the most rewarding workthat you could provide to
yourself, because life feelsmore fuller, it feels more safer
(30:17):
to be inside your body, itfeels more safer to be with the
mind and you know, when thenervous system comes up all
dysregulated and that innercritic starts going, you can
create that bit of space ofweight.
I'm feeling some emotions thatare making me feel unsafe and,
as you said, the strongest thingthat we can do is ask for help,
(30:38):
and I think that's where wehave to create more safety of
not criticizing, because withthis whole criticizing and blame
game, everybody hides who wantsto.
It takes a lot of courage to betransparent and accountable of
like I need some help and I theamount of courage it took me to
be like I'm messy, I need somehelp.
(30:59):
I don't know this space and putmyself out there.
Yet a lot of times, when we putourselves out there in society,
we get chastised and we getstrung up.
So why would somebody want toput themselves through that?
Yet we have to create safespaces within our dialogues of
no longer blaming, so that wedon't have to do the work that
(31:21):
we create that community andthat village of.
Let's work on this.
Let's not leave anybody behindbecause, oh, you should have
learned this here.
You're this age, so you shouldknow better.
And it's like you don't evenknow somebody's life history in
the context of what they've gonethrough, just because you see a
certain number or a demographicor an age that you think they
(31:41):
should have it all together.
Yet if they've never been giventhat skill and, like you said,
like life skills need to bereintroduced into the education
system like sure, academics isgreat, if you don't have any
social skills or you don't evenknow how to take care of
yourself, what are we creatingas a society, right?
Speaker 2 (32:02):
No, no, that's true.
When I see all these fights andfighting videos and you know,
and I'm like, oh my gosh, that'swhat it is.
It's skills, it's it's notbeing able to get through
conflict and you know people notunderstanding that conflict is
actually healthy.
There's a lot that comes out ofconflict.
Actually, new, innovative ideascome out of conflict.
(32:26):
So, it's not a bad thing, butpeople look at conflict but
that's because they're scared ofit, because they don't know how
to handle it.
Right, there's, you know, theyhave the ambiguity around it
because they're like I don't,well, this is an area that I'm
not, you know, comfortablehandling because I don't have
the skills, and that's that'sreally what it is.
It's having the skills to dealwith conflict or any adversity,
(32:50):
which goes back to resilience.
Once again, it's a skill andyou have to build it.
But which goes back toresilience Once again, it's a
skill and you have to build it.
But you have to build it in theright way, in a way that's
comfortable for you.
Again, the first, remember Isaid in the beginning I thought
resilience was being strong andpushing through and you know,
you get pull yourself up by yourbootstraps and you don't tell
anybody and you just, you know,don't cry and you just go.
When I started learning likethat's not what resilience is at
(33:12):
all, like, I mean, it's alittle bit of that, but it's
more so of being very self-awareand understanding what it is
that you can do right and theresources that you have, whether
it's financial resources,whether it's human resources,
whatever it may be, it's justrecognizing what you have around
(33:33):
you.
Whatever it may be, it's justrecognizing what you have around
you and I kind of want to talkabout.
You talked about survival modeand a lot of times, when you're
in constant survival mode,that's really not resilience.
People think that it is, butit's really not like you're.
You you're not supposed to begoing from crisis to crisis,
(33:53):
crisis to crisis.
Right At some point you need toreprieve, you need a break.
But if you find yourself goingfrom crisis to crisis to crisis
to crisis, you're in survivalmode, and so you're going to
have to find a way to get out ofthat.
Because what happens is and thisis just from researching, what
I've learned, because Ifunctioned in survival mode for
(34:14):
a little while too is thatreally you're not really
handling your problems whenyou're in survival mode because
at that time you're in what theycall your reptilian brain right
, your lizard brain.
So you're really not using thedepths of your higher and
critical thinking or higherlevel thinking when you're in
survival mode, of your higherand critical thinking or higher
(34:36):
level of thinking when you're insurvival mode.
So when you solve problems whenyou're in survival mode, then
you're just putting band-aids onthem, and so that's why things
keep happening over and over andover, because you're just
putting band-aids on yourproblems.
You're really not handling yourproblems like you need to,
right, and so that's somethingthat I had to learn, and I know
that's like you said, it'seasier said than done, but
that's why you know whether youget a support system, are you
(34:59):
find a partner to hold youaccountable to say but?
But you had to be open to it,right?
So because sometimes we don'twant to hear, it stings.
It stings Right it does it doesit's like, ah, ouch, okay, did
you have to pinch me that hard?
But, like I said, sometimes ourlife-jack moments are
(35:23):
self-induced at times and so wejust have to recognize that.
Not all the time, but you know,sometimes they can be.
But it's recognizing that, okay, I've got to get out of
survival mode, I've got to getout of my reptilian brain and I
have to really think about thechoices and the decisions that
I'm making, because sometimesit's like, does this really make
(35:45):
sense?
But again, we're just fixingthe problem just right now,
immediately, right when, if youjust pause for a moment and
really think about the problem,how do I solve this problem?
And just take your time.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
I want to add to that , when you've been in survival
mode for so long, chaos becomeshome and you don't recognize
that that's not where home issupposed to be.
So, as much as you don't wantall the crises, your body has
learned that this is wheresafety is in this chaos.
This is what home.
(36:21):
So, as you said, being able todo introspection.
You know, take those and I getit like this.
This stuff is easier said thandone when people are in
environments and financialconstraints that they're working
three jobs, they're not able totake a breath and everything
else.
Like like you're blaming me forwhat's going on and it's like.
(36:44):
This is nothing about blame.
It's about being able to takeaccess of your biology, because
we do attract things with ournervous system and we create
narratives that we want tosupport in our lived experiences
.
I know it does.
It sounds like what?
What do you talk?
Yet once you understand alittle bit more of your
psychology and you understandyour nervous system and how
(37:06):
intelligent it is, it's verycounterintuitive, it's very
reversed.
So it's intellectually itdoesn't make sense, because why
would I do that to myself?
And it's not that you're doingit.
This is something that youlearned through feeling.
It's not an intellectual thing.
So that's why, in the work thatI do, it's like I'm getting you
out of your head and back intoyour body so that you can
(37:28):
release these traumas and thesesuppressed emotions that are
charging and supporting anarrative, because you're
getting something out of this.
Because you know, sometimespeople want to have the
narrative of victim mode and allthese things are going wrong.
Because you know, people lookat you and you're like, oh my
gosh, how are you surviving allthis?
And I'm like I have a lot ofthings that I went through in my
(37:49):
life and I know some of it wasjust life is lifing and some of
it was self induced, becausethat was the chaos I was used to
.
This is what I defined asresilience and I'm going to just
push through and I have to havepain.
I don't know what ease is andhow things can be received.
I think I have to go out thereand you know, go, grasp it and
(38:10):
everything else.
But that takes, you know, awillingness to.
You know, do that inner work.
So you know, like Dr Rowe said,if you're looking for things,
you know, sometimes our friendsand our partners aren't the best
people to use because they havea filter of not being able to
be fully honest or they'll be ina lot of judgment because they
(38:33):
don't know how to witness yourpain.
So, you know, getting a coachor hiring somebody or speaking,
you know, finding safety insomebody else, that will really
bring you into a place where youcan do some deep work because
there's not this barrier ofconstraint with the relationship
, if that makes sense, can youspeak a little bit more on why a
(38:54):
coach is, like as such, abetter instrument?
Some people aren't able toafford it.
I get that.
Yeah, just be.
You know, give the caution ofwhat can happen with family
members, friends or partnerswhen we use them for that
accountability.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
No, absolutely.
So.
You know.
You hire a coach, someone likeme, as a resilience coach to
kind of, you know, walk besideyou, right, and but in an
objective way, because I don't,you know, with my clients.
Of course I get to know themover time, but initially I don't
know my clients, right, we'renot getting together and going
(39:32):
to, you know, have lunch andbrunch, and I'm not coming to
their house for their kids'birthday parties, right, so I'm
objective.
So I only know the things thatyou tell me.
I don't know the background, Idon't know the history, I only
know what you tell me and I amable to work with you, right, to
do actionable steps towardswhatever the goal is that you
(39:54):
are trying to achieve.
Right, which is different fromyour family, because your family
has all the history, yourfamily has all the history of
the things that you know, andthey also have some of the
information of things that youdon't know, also because they
know other people that you alsoknow, and so sometimes, like you
said, yes, and so sometimes,like you said, yes, it's hard
for family members and partnersto be objective at times,
(40:18):
because they have moreinformation and they also have
feelings, because they careabout you because they're
connected to you and, just as wetalked about earlier, it's hard
for us to go see our childrenor people that we love go
(40:39):
through life jacked moments anda lot of times we just want to
solve their problems for them,right, and so sometimes it's not
good to solve someone else'sproblem, as they say.
You know, you got to teachpeople how to fish and not just
fish for them, and feed themlike you got to feed.
You got to make sure that theyknow how to feed themselves at
times, because what if you'renot there one day?
Then?
they're just going to be hungry?
No, right.
But you hire a coach and wejust go through.
(41:02):
You know a process, and what Ido with, with my all of my
clients that I work with, is,you know, the first time we just
kind of talk about what is itthat you're consistently having
trouble with?
Why do you think you need tobuild resilience?
And everybody pretty much knows, like, where they struggle in
in a particular area, and itcould be their finances, it
(41:22):
could be love, it could be withparenting, it could be just
relationships in general, itcould be career.
There's all types of areas wherewe may need to build resilience
, because you can findresilience in all areas of your
life, because in all the time,as you said, life be lifin'.
So, you know, sometimes there'shabits that we form around our
(41:45):
finances, right, and sometimesthat causes us to be life jacked
or something happens that hasnothing to do with what we've
done in the past.
It's just out of our controlbecause it just happens, right.
But how do you push throughthat particular event, right?
What steps can you put in placeto eat that elephant?
(42:06):
And so we just work throughthat process.
But there's actionable stepsand some of it is very
introspective, right.
Some of it is that you got todo some deep, deep work.
Now I'm not a therapist, okay,so I have to put that disclaimer
out there.
I'm not a therapist and so I doif there's some trauma that
(42:28):
comes out.
I am not equipped to deal withthose types of things.
So, but I do, I can recommendyou know some therapists that
you can access.
You know there's a network thatyou know you can access through
your insurance or if you don'thave insurance.
But for sure, because a lot oftimes it does bring up trauma
(42:51):
and it does bring up childhoodexperiences, because our
experiences in our childhoodlead to who we are and why we do
the things that we do.
And we do them, and sometimes wedon't even know why we do them,
but it turns out it's becauseof something that happened in
our childhood or when we wereyounger, and so we found a way
to like okay, so the next time,this is how I'm going to deal
(43:12):
with this situation every singletime, right, and it may not be
the best way to deal with it,and you know.
So for those things, you know,and I kind of navigate through
that with my clients and I justkind of tell them hey, you know,
this may be something, this isan area that you know I'm not
equipped to deal with and helpyou through.
(43:32):
But you know there are otherareas that we can work on.
And if you, you know, feel likeyou need to go to therapy or
and I am a big, huge proponentof therapy and people going to
therapy I have a therapistmyself, my children, they go to
therapy and they need to talkout, you know, different
experiences or things, like Isaid, it's the skills, it's the
skill building to just navigatelife, because life it definitely
(43:57):
lives, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Exactly, exactly.
I'm mindful of time, so I wantto ask you an introspective
question.
I want to ask you to bring yourawareness right now and to go
back to your 18 year old selfawareness right now and to go
back to your 18 year old selfand what are three words you
(44:21):
would tell your 18 year old selfto carry you?
Speaker 2 (44:25):
to the journey to right now.
I would say stay true toyourself, stay true.
And of course that's four but,but.
But I would say that oftentimesI sometimes would kind of adapt
to my environment and besomething else just to fit into
(44:46):
the environment, and I don'tthink that served me well at
times, and so that's what Iwould say.
I mean now I'm the same nomatter what environment I'm in
pretty much the same.
You know, I am authenticallywho I am and I'm not afraid or
ashamed of who I am, and I getto be that person 100% all the
(45:09):
way through, whereas before Iwould hide bits and pieces of
myself or I would tell littlelies that you know weren't
necessarily true, about myselfor what I didn't like or what I
did like, and they weren't true,but I was just saying them to
make sure I adapted to myenvironment and that I fit in.
But that's something that Iwould say is to stay true to
(45:32):
yourself.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
So I know many listeners are probably like okay
, so where can I find Dr Rose?
So could you let them knowyourself, your services and also
where they can find the podcast.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Absolutely.
So you can pretty much findeverything, whether it's my book
, because I have a journal toyou know, do self a lot of self
discovery.
It's called the ultimate selfreflection journal, and so you
can find that on Amazon.
You just search do self a lotof self-discovery, it's called
the Ultimate Self-ReflectionJournal, and so you can find
that on Amazon.
You just search my name, ronikaL Jacobs, R-O-N-I-C-A, l Jacobs
, j-a-c-o-b-s, and you justsearch that in Amazon, it'll
(46:06):
come right up.
Also, you can go to my website,and that is wwwronicaljacobscom
.
If you go there, you'll see allthe guests that I have on my
podcast.
You'll see Nat Nat.
(46:26):
Her episode is in there.
But you can listen to Lifejacks, the resilience podcast, on any
streaming platform, whetherit's Amazon Music, I, I'm sorry
Apple Podcasts, iheartradio,pandora, spotify, I mean you
(46:46):
name it.
It's YouTube.
You can definitely go toYouTube as well.
I have a couple of.
My podcast is mostly audio, butI do have a couple of video.
A couple of my podcast ismostly audio, but I do have a
couple of video.
If you would like anyone outhere that's listening or
watching, if you would like tobe a guest, same thing, go to
the website.
I'd love to have you on as aguest.
If you want resilience coachingsame thing you book through the
(47:08):
website.
I have different coachingpackages.
They're absolutely affordablebecause I, too, have been in a
you know a position where Icouldn't afford it, but I needed
the help.
I needed the support of someonethat was objective, that was
not going to judge me and wasgoing to walk with me side by
side and just help me reach mygoals, and so I'm here to help
(47:30):
you do just that.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
I have a question Do you work with people
internationally?
Is it done over Zoom and sothat people around the world
could work with you?
Speaker 2 (47:42):
Absolutely you can.
Yes, all the I'm sorry, not theepisodes, but all the coaching
sessions are online through Zoom.
So, yes, you can just click thelink once I send it to you and
you can access it anywhere Isend you.
You can book whenever, cause Iyou basically want to.
If you build a whole coachingI'm sorry, if you purchase a
whole coaching program it'susually 10 sessions that we go
(48:05):
through a series Um and uh.
You will get the links and thenyou just book.
You know whenever it works foryour schedule.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Okay, cause I know a lot of times because we are
doing this on a podcast and some, I want to just bring more of
the safety so that if somebodyhad that question it's already
answered.
So it takes away a little moreof the being afraid to reach out
.
So at any time you know ifyou've got tingles or ahas,
(48:35):
that's your limbic, limbicsystem letting you know that Dr
Rowe has something for you.
So as you see how approachableshe is and her style, just shoot
her an email, contact her.
Are you on social media also?
Speaker 2 (48:49):
I am on social media, so if you just search life
jacks podcast anywhere, all theplatforms on TikTok, on
Instagram, on Facebook, onLinkedIn, any of those places.
Search Lifejacks, theresilience podcast or Lifejacks
podcast you'll find it.
(49:09):
I'm the only one with Lifejacks.
I own that name, nice, so Iregistered trademark.
So it's mine.
Love it, search it, you'll findme.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Love it, Love it.
So, as I said, you know, reachout to her.
Reach out and just send amessage and see what that would
look like to work and start theprocess and everything else.
Because, as we said, you know,we all started somewhere also.
So, the most times when weoffer services, because it was
something intimate within ourown life and now we've
(49:43):
alchemized it and we want toshare that gold with other
people.
Now I want to ask you what isone sentence or sentiment that
you would want to leave thelisteners that would empower
them?
Speaker 2 (50:00):
You can do anything that you want to do.
You really really can Like.
Sometimes we feel like, oh mygosh, I'm not going to be able
to get all of this done, but Ireally believe that you can do
everything that you want to doand you can have it all you
really can.
You just have to come up with aplan and a strategy to make it
(50:23):
happen.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
Dr Rowe, I want to thank you for being vulnerable,
for being you, being quirky,being so approachable and, you
know, speaking in a languagethat feels safe, that doesn't
feel critical or judgmental.
It actually, like you said,you're walking alongside with
people and thank you for thelight and the resources and the
(50:47):
skills that you're bringing toso many people so that they can,
you know, change the trajectoryof their life and start the
change from within.
So thank you for being you.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
No, thank you, Nat.
Nat, I had a wonderful time.
Thank you to your listeners.
You have a fantastic show.
As podcasters, as Black femalepodcasters, we have to support
each other.
I support you, sis.
I'm here for you.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
I'm cheering for you.
Yes, yes, other, because I usedto work in the law enforcement,
so the boys clubs.
So at times when you're in thatkind of field, you feel like
you have to be in survival andpush through.
Where it's like, no, we can befeminine, we can be soft, but we
can still be assertive and wecan have all of those parts, not
just being that masculine andkind of push through with that.
(51:50):
We can be soft and supportiveof each other and we can nurture
each other and also, you know,keep ourselves accountable of.
You're going the wrong way, likewe have to create spaces where
we feel safe to be called outand once we understand that
you're calling me out for mygrowth not to belittle me we can
thrive and that's all we wantto do.
(52:12):
So I appreciate being on yourpodcast, I appreciate you
accepting being online and Ihope you'll come back again so
that we can dive even deeperinto other topics, because you
have a plethora of tools andexperience to share with the
listeners.
So I'm here for you and I thankyou so much.
Yes, thank you.
(52:33):
Please remember to be kind toyourself.
Hey, welcome to the Lift One Self podcast.
I'm your host, nat Nat, and, asyou hear with the giggles me
and Dr Roe, we're alreadytalking and conversating before
we press record.
So you know this is going to bea joyful conversation in depth.
We're going to get intoboundaries, resilience and what
(00:23):
it would really mean if you wereauthentically yourself, without
the should or who you think youought to be, or the
expectations of others.
So, dr Rowe, would you be sogracious to introduce yourself
to myself and the listeners,because I was on your podcast so
I didn't get to really knowabout you.
You asked a lot about me, sonow you're on the hot seat, so
(00:45):
could you let the listeners knowabout yourself and you know
what makes you Dr Rowe?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yes, nat, nat, hi, I am so excited to be on this side
of the mic for once.
Yes, you were a guest on myshow and it's such a wonderful
episode so you know it wasauthentic.
It was about mindfulness andabout meditation.
I loved it so much.
There was, you know, a lot ofdownloads for your episode, so
(01:13):
it's really, really cool.
So a little bit about me.
So my name is Dr Ronika Jacobs,but I go by Dr Ro and I have a
doctorate in educationalleadership, but it's actually in
transformation, leadership andinquiry, so that's kind of
studied.
That started my journey intostudying about change, why we
(01:39):
change, why we don't want tochange, don't want to change,
why we resist change and whatmakes us, you know, want to try
new things.
And I, out of that came thedesire to kind of learn also
(02:00):
about resilience, becauseresilience is also wrapped into
that and I found out that Imyself is, I am incredibly
resilient.
I mean, I think people havekind of told me that throughout
my life.
They just automatically assumeyou know that I don't go through
anything, and they say you'rejust so resilient, you just kind
of, you know, bounce back,you're always happy, you're
always, you know, going throughthings and it's really great and
I wish I could be strong likeyou and I would always be like I
(02:22):
go through things all the time.
What are you talking about, so?
But but then I started thinkingabout well, why is it that I go
through things and I can bounceback and come out on the other
side?
And I started studying that,and so I decided to become a
resilience coach and then Istarted my podcast called Life
Jacked the resilience podcast,and so life jacked.
(02:44):
Basically, you know whensomething unexpected happens to
jack with your life, right?
So if you think about beingcarjacked, you're driving along
in your car and somebody comesalong it's like, hey, give me
your car, right, and you getcarjacked.
Well, the same thing happens inlife.
So we're going on along in lifeand we're just doing our thing
(03:04):
and then something, either minoror major or catastrophic, comes
along and kind of knocks us offcourse and we have to figure
out how to navigate that, and sosometimes it's devastating and
it totally changes our wholeentire you know um out life,
outlook and life, um.
And then sometimes they're justminor setbacks, right, and we
(03:25):
just kind of have to, you know,brush ourselves off, pick
ourselves up and, just you know,step forward.
But yeah, so I'm a resiliencecoach and so I do resilience
coaching with clients and theycan book sessions with me and we
kind of work through thatresilience process.
Everyone is on the spectrum atone end or the other Right, as
as termed in terms of resilience, but I've learned that
resilience is a muscle Right.
(03:45):
Everyone is on the spectrum atone end or the other right In
terms of resilience, but I'velearned that resilience is a
muscle right.
So just like you work out atthe gym or whatever you do, and
you practice at it, well,resilience is, it works the same
way.
But you know, I have a podcast.
It's pretty much everywherethat you listen to podcasts or
you can go right to my website,which you know I'll share at the
(04:08):
end of this episode.
But that is just a little bitabout me.
I'm a mom.
I live in Houston, texas.
I'm a mom of three fantasticboys.
Actually, one is not a boy,he's a young man now, so he's an
adult.
And then I have two otherchildren, two other sons, and
I'm an educator by trade, so I'ma multilingual educator.
(04:31):
I do speak Spanish and Frenchand I see, yes, I see, look we
sometimes I can confuse the twolanguages.
Oui, j'ai parlé français.
And what else?
And I'm a proud member of DeltaSigma, theta Sorority
Incorporated.
I just celebrated 20 years inthis wonderful organization so
(04:55):
great sisterhood.
Congrats congrats.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
That's about me, okay .
So there's a lot I want to gointo and, like we said, we're
going to talk about resilienceand what that definition is and
what that looks like.
You know it's a very bigbuzzword right now.
Yet people are like, especiallywhen they've gone through a lot
of painful experiences, andpeople will tell them resilience
(05:18):
, but they're like I don't wantto hear that and I don't want to
experience any more resilienceyet really being able to shift
the definition of that in ourconversation.
And you know the boundaries andalso the shoulds and
expectations that we place onourselves that can shackle our
authenticity.
So, before we get into that,will you join me in a mindful
(05:41):
moment so we can groundourselves and, you know, meet
ourselves in presence and in themoment.
Absolutely okay.
And for the listeners, all youhear my safety spill.
Uh, safety first.
Please don't close your eyeswhen I ask.
Yet the other prompts you'reable to follow through.
So, dr rowe, I'll ask you toget comfortable in your seating
(06:02):
and, if it's safe to do so,you're going to gently close
your eyes and you're going tobring your awareness to watching
your breath go in and outthrough your nose.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
You're not going to try and control your breath.
You're just going to be awareof its rhythm, allowing it to
guide you into your body.
There may be some sensations orfeelings coming up, and that's
okay.
You're safe to feel.
You're safe to let go.
(06:35):
Surrender the need to control,release the need to resist and
just be, be with your breath.
Release the need to resist andjust be, be with your breath.
Drop deeper into your body.
Now there may be some thoughtsor to-do lists or perhaps some
(06:57):
memories have popped up.
It's okay.
Gently bring your awareness backto your breath, creating space
between the awareness and thethoughts and dropping deeper
into the body, being in thespace of presence, of being.
Again, more thoughts may havepopped up.
(07:20):
Gently bring your awarenessback to your breath, creating
even more space between theawareness and the thoughts and
completely surrendering into thebody, into the moment, into
being.
Whenever you notice that yourawareness has left the breath,
(07:54):
just begin again and bring itback to your breath, just
allowing there to be opennessand space, also doing a check-in
with your body that you may nothave noticed any tension in
your shoulders or knots in yourstomach or anything that may
have been stored in there.
That's finally feeling safe tocome up your senses, being with
(08:28):
your breath, at your own timeand at your own pace.
You're going to gently openyour eyes while staying with
your breath.
How's your heart doing Good?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Good.
What does resilience mean foryou?
How has the definition evolvedfor you?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So the interesting thing is, I used to think that
being resilient meant that youhad to be strong and you had to
know what you're supposed to do,and you just fight through it
and you push through and you donknow, you don't cry, right, and
(09:07):
so, whatever happens, you justhandle it right away and you
just have to know what resourcesyou have and you just push
through, and then you getthrough it and then on to the
next thing.
However, as I've been doing theresilience work, I have
discovered that resilience isunique to each one of us.
(09:32):
There's no real way to defineit because it shows up
differently in each person.
And now I recognize thatresilience could mean
recognizing to ask for help orwhen you need to ask for help,
(09:53):
that it's not about being strongall the time.
It's not about handling it byyourself.
Now, in the general sense, itis about pushing through and
getting over the hump right,pushing through the challenges.
It's not giving up.
It's definitely that it's notgiving up.
It's knowing that this is atemporary pain or a temporary
(10:17):
inconvenience, not taking awaythat it may be bad, right, and
that it's a negative experience.
But you know, for me now it'sbeing incredibly self-aware and
recognizing that sometimes youdon't have to have everything
(10:38):
figured out, that if you want tocry for a day, you know.
If you want to lay in the bedfor a day and process it, you
can do that.
But now I recognize like, ok, Ican take a moment, I can
breathe and I can really think.
(10:58):
I don't have to react orrespond right away, unless it's
something you know life altering, you're in danger or whatever.
But for me now it's more of athing where I'm taking a moment,
pausing, reflecting, and if Ineed to ask for help, I ask for
(11:19):
help.
If it's something that I need tostop doing right because I
could have caused this myself,it's because sometimes things
are self-induced, sometimes ourlife jacked moments can be
self-induced, which is very hardto take accountability for.
Yeah, but putting a plan inplace and taking one day at a
(11:42):
time and, as they say, how doyou eat an elephant?
Piece by piece, bit by bit,bite by bite, and that's really
what it is but knowing thatthere's a goal and each step
that you take, each task thatyou complete, each action right,
(12:04):
each event will eventually leadyou to your goal you see, you
said in your definition it wasto be strong, to push through,
to kind of have this armor.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Do you now allow softness to come in and
gentleness and kindness, withthat resilience?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Absolutely, because the one thing I give myself now
is grace and that's something Idid not give myself before.
The interesting thing aboutthinking about yourself right,
we all think about ourselves.
We all have this picture rightOf ourselves that we think we
(12:47):
present to the world or that wethink we have to present to the
world.
And the interesting thing is weare the meanest people to
ourselves.
We are the absolute meanest.
I mean we can talk about ourweight, we can talk about our
hair, our skin tone, all thesephysical attributes, and we can
just really rag on ourselves.
(13:10):
Which is interesting, becauseif you were to approach someone
else on the street or in yourfamily or whatever, you wouldn't
just sit there and berate themfor hours or minutes or whatever
in the mirror.
Like you know, we do it toourselves in the mirror.
We always think, oh, you knowwhat I'm stupid, you know what?
Oh my gosh, I can't believe Idid that.
But you don't say that tosomeone else.
(13:30):
He's like I hope you don't.
You know you don't sit thereand if someone makes a mistake
and tell them over and over howdumb they are, right, but when
we make a mistake, that's whatwe do to ourselves sometimes,
like we're totally fine withdoing that, and so that's why I
(13:51):
say we can be the meanest toourselves, we can be kind to
others.
But it's like, why can't youtake that kindness that you have
towards, that you show towardsother people, and bring that
inward and be kind to yourselfas well?
Give yourself grace, recognizethat you're going to make a
mistake, you're going to mess up.
You're not going to be perfectall the time, and that's
something that I've had to learnto adjust to.
(14:13):
Is that, you know, I want to doeverything right, I want to be
perfect, I want to, you know,and it's, it's unrealistic, it
just doesn't make any sense atall.
And so that's something that Ihad to recognize is that I had
to give myself grace and not saylike, oh yeah, you know, I'm
kind to myself and I say a bunchof affirmations in the mirror
(14:33):
in the morning.
It's not just that, it's liketruly giving yourself grace.
If you mess up, you know notbeing ashamed.
Being ashamed, lay that shamedown, lay it down.
Brene Brown says that lay thatshame down Like it's not yours
to carry, it's not, it's noteven necessary, because it
(14:55):
doesn't do anything, it doesn'thelp.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Mm, hmm, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
And you know, I know some listeners are like easier
said than done, like that's anintellectual theory, and I think
that's what I think sometimescauses some harm with people
where we're like just lay theshame down, just, and it's like,
well, intellectually that's alleasy.
Yet my body isn't allowing meto really process what the
(15:20):
deeper feelings, because shameis a protective emotion.
Yeah, it's, you know,protecting.
Possibly most of the time it'shelplessness or some
accountability of having to see,oh, the thing that you said you
would never do, you possiblydid.
And it can be very difficultand humbling to swallow your
truth.
We would like to be believethat we're all kumbaya and we
(15:44):
don't do any wrong and it's likeno, there's no such thing.
You're human, like there'sthings that you don't realize,
that you know it stings somebodythe wrong way, it makes them,
another person, feel inferior orwhatnot.
I think you know for myself,with resilience, as you said,
you know, that hardness andpushing through that was a lot
(16:07):
of survival.
I didn't realize howdysregulated my nervous system
was and how, you know, as yousaid, life jacked my emotions,
that I wasn't feeling in.
The fear were hijacking mybehavior and thinking that I had
to be this certain way and denymy body from feeling so that I
(16:27):
could push through.
And sometimes you know whenthere's certain things you're
doing that, yet that only lastsfor so long before the body, you
know, starts to be like wecan't do this anymore.
Hello, right, hello.
So for yourself, have youalways been in tune with your
(16:49):
emotions, or has that been aprocess?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
That actually has been a process as well.
I come from a family, again, Ithink that's.
You know we learn how to be,initially when we're young,
right From the models of thepeople in our family.
And you know, I come from afamily where you're strong and
you push through and you don'tcry and you know if you cry it's
(17:16):
not going to do anything anyway.
So, just, you know, keep going,right.
And so we didn't really shareand show a lot of emotion.
And so that's what I learned atfirst, right, and I didn't
share a lot of my emotionsinitially.
And then what would happen isbecause I didn't share my
emotions and I would hold themin and hold them in and hold
them in right, but then I wouldexplode Because I've spent all
(17:39):
this time holding my emotions inand not sharing how I was
feeling.
And then, once I got ready toshare with someone, then it
would be this vomiting ofemotions, whether it's like
happiness or sadness or anger.
It just would just be like hereyou go, take all my emotions,
and everybody you know, whoeverI'm talking to would be like oh
(18:01):
my God, this is a lot, it's alot.
And so over time, I've had tolearn emotional intelligence.
How do you manage your emotions?
Right, because we have thishuge repertoire of emotions,
right?
So it's not that we're notsupposed to be angry, it's not
that we're not supposed to besad, we're not supposed to be
(18:23):
extremely excited, but it's notthat we're not supposed to be
sad, we're not supposed to beextremely excited, but it's all
in how you manage those emotionsright.
So you can still be angry withsomeone, because that's healthy,
because sometimes people pissyou off, right, and you're
supposed to be angry about it,because if you're not angry
about it, then you're justaccepting that someone is going
to, you know, make you mad or bemean to you, and you you're
(18:44):
just like okay, you know.
So it's okay to be angry, butit's how you manage that
particular emotion and it's justlike you know, building
resilience and understanding howto get from you know one event
to the next.
If I've had a setback, andemotions are wrapped up into
that as well.
And so I've had to learn how tomanage my emotions and use them
(19:08):
appropriately and apply themappropriately to life.
And I had to practice that andI had to learn like okay, so
when I'm angry, but then how doI communicate that I'm angry,
but in a safe way for myself andwhoever my anger is directed
towards, because, like I said,there's nothing wrong with you
(19:29):
being angry.
You can share with someone thatyou're upset.
Hey, this thing that you did,that was not okay and that has
made me angry.
So what I would like in thefuture is this Is that something
that you think you can do inthe future?
Is this?
Is that something that youthink you can do?
But it does take some practiceand I've had to learn all of
(19:50):
those skills.
But what I've recognized is myrelationships with people, my
interactions with people, haveimproved, because now I'm able
to communicate the emotions thatI want to communicate.
So now I've trickled that downto my children, to my sons, and
we have those same conversations, um, and I can tell you, you
(20:11):
know, um, if I yell because I'mupset about hey you know the
grind shop, clean the, you knowdishes and the kitchen is dirty
and all these things, right.
But now because, right, boys,right, but now I feel safe that
I can be vulnerable and show mychildren what vulnerability
(20:33):
looks like.
And what that looks like is, Isay, you know what?
Mom lost control and that wasnot okay.
And I apologize, although I'mstill upset.
And I apologize although I'mstill upset, because you all had
the responsibility to take outthe trash or do the dishes, or
vacuum the living room or cleanthe movie room, whatever it may
be.
(20:57):
However, I did not have theright to lose control.
So, as you can see, like I said, I still communicated that, hey
, I'm upset and I'm not happy orI'm angry with the fact that
you did not follow through oryou know you weren't responsible
.
So I'm still communicating myemotion but, at the same time,
I'm taking responsibility andaccountability for, hey, but it
didn't give me the right to yelland fuss, it didn't give me a
(21:19):
right to do that Because andalthough I know that may seem
like, oh, that's that gentleparenting thing but I'm still
holding my children accountable,right, I'm still cause.
I'm saying this was theexpectation that was not met and
so, as a result, I'm angryabout that.
But what I've learned is, when Ido that now, because those are
(21:41):
the conversations, so now theyare able to have those
conversations with each otherand they're able to have that
conversation with me, and so I'mthinking rightfully, so they're
also able to have thoseconversations with other people.
And so now, as young menbecause sometimes they say, men
don't know how to process theiremotions and their so hopefully
(22:02):
I have these young men who aregoing to grow up into adult men
and they're able to communicatewith others and process their
emotions appropriately and then,whatever comes their way,
they're able to deal with it.
And so that's that buildingresilience, that's being able to
push through, bounce back, butat the same time, not being
(22:23):
tough right, not being tough,and you know I've got to be
tough and you know you knownothing like that, but it's more
so of being self-aware of thisis the emotion that I'm feeling
about whatever is going on, butthis is my plan to fix it and to
move forward.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah, I want to highlight the gentle parenting
because I understand I come froma Caribbean background,
canadian and Caribbean, canadianand Caribbean, and you know
corporal punishment can be atthe forefront of that, that
that's the only way thatchildren can learn where it's
(23:03):
like.
Well, no, if you realize you'renot able to communicate and if
we recognize too, as soon asemotions come into the dialogue
and accountability of showingour own emotions and that we're
human, all of a sudden thatseems like it's gentle, it's too
soft, they should know betterwhere it's like.
Oh well, you just want to keeprepeating the same thing and
(23:23):
change is actually revealing andshowing your inner state.
Like I take it a little bitfurther at times because my
neurosis, I see a certain messand it reminds me of my
childhood and what I was forcedto do.
So I'm articulating to the boysnow, like when I see this I
know it's not a big deal to youguys, you guys have no meaning,
(23:44):
it doesn't bother you, itdoesn't for me, it sends my
brain going cuckoo.
So when it goes cuckoo and I'mnot able to access it, the
neurotic mom comes out and shestarts yelling because I've
asked you in language and you'renot hearing me and I'm asking
for help.
I'm not just telling you,sometimes I have to tell you
(24:05):
guys, and and start with theyelling and I'm, I'm really
working hard at that.
We don't have to repeat thiskind of pattern yet I'm not.
That's not the way tocommunicate.
Yet also recognize theresponsibility on your part of
you have to coexist with otherhumans and you know, so really
you know, working through thatinner process too, that a lot of
(24:28):
times the older generation youwould never hear any apology or
what their inner state andconflict, because they don't
even know at times to be able toaccess that.
And I, like I think what peopleget wrong is with gentle
parenting.
They think it's supposed to bepassive and that emotions are
(24:49):
supposed to hijack and that youwere supposed to.
You know, as I say to myclients and anyone that will
listen, if you're going tobecome a parent, the most
difficult thing is witnessingthe pain in your children, and
sometimes that pain iswitnessing them go through
emotional turmoil, turmoil, sothat emotion right.
(25:14):
So when you see them doing theirtemper tantrums and it can be
in their teens and you're likeyou shouldn't be doing this and
it's like, oh, but I just took atemper tantrum by yelling at
you not doing your dishes.
But our mind creates this kindof hypocrisy to help the image
that we have of perfection thatfeels like safety rather than
(25:36):
the messiness of being human andseeing like there is no age gap
for temper tantrums.
Temper tantrums are emotionsbeing felt and we just don't
know how to communicate.
That's it.
That's really it.
Yes, and I think this is onething I want to help.
(25:57):
You know, cultivate in theAfrican-American Caribbean
diaspora that we need to startbringing emotions in, and I know
it's uncomfortable.
And then people are like well,what are you supposed to do with
that?
Well, you feel them and youprocess them and you start being
there for yourself rather thanprojecting on everybody and
dictating to everybody else thatthey're to make you feel better
(26:18):
.
Like how many parents areputting expectations on their
children to be a certain way, sothat they can feel a sense of
worth and validation and value?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
No, absolutely, no, absolutely.
That really is what it is,because I had to recognize that.
Okay, my children are in myhome for a temporary time.
Right, they're going to beoutside of my home more times
than they're inside of my home.
So when I send them out intothe world, are they going to be
people who are able to interactwith others?
(26:50):
And what does that look like?
Are they going in?
Because I have to give themskills, because one of the
things that I recognize as aneducator is that many students
are lacking skills.
Right, and I don't.
I know we like to play the blamegame, right?
Oh, it's the school.
The school and the teachers arenot teaching enough.
No, no, no, it's home.
(27:10):
Home is not teaching themenough.
You know, whatever it may be,and I really think it's home
home is not teaching them enough.
You know, whatever it may be,and I really think it's just the
whole entire our society period.
We have stopped teaching skills,we've stopped, we've kind of
skipped over it in a sense.
Right, it's just like childrenare born and then it's just a
rat race from there.
(27:30):
We're trying to, you know, makesure, make sure they are, you
know, cognitively, you knowsmart and they're, you know,
they're faced with the brightesttoys, and then there's
technology, and then there'ssports, and then they're
participating in this, and thenthere's dance and there's
gymnastics, and we're trying to,we're building those types of
skills, the physical skills,right, all these things that you
(27:54):
, you know they do hurt us inlife, but we forget about the
emotional pieces, the actualday-to-day.
How do I function as a humanwith other humans in life?
And I feel like, for that,we've just kind of left that up
to kids to kind of figure out.
And that's the problem is.
(28:15):
Well, that's not something thatyou can really figure out, and
you do really have to sit downand give your children skills.
You really really do, you know.
So, while you're thinking aboutfinancial literacy and while
you're thinking about, you know,making sure that they can make
them something to eat, but alsoremember that being able to
(28:37):
communicate is huge as well, andyou know, but sometimes some of
us don't quite know how tocommunicate very well, and so it
ends up being, you know thiscycle generation after
generation of people not beingable to communicate well.
But you also have to thinkabout, you have to have
accountability on yourself too.
There's a reason why you getthis, a certain type of response
(29:02):
from people, and you're likewhy is this?
Every time I turn around,somebody's responding to me in
this certain way.
I don't know what it is.
You're gonna have to look deepinto that, you know, due to
self-assessment, like why isthat happening?
Because that's something that Ilearned.
When you are constantlyexperiencing the same thing over
and over, that's the lesson,that's what you're supposed to
(29:24):
learn from, and until you learnthat lesson, it's going to keep
showing up.
God is going to keep putting itin your face.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
We are pattern makers and as soon as you think you've
dissolved the pattern, itbuilds itself right back up.
That's just.
You know self-preservation, andit's the defense mechanisms of,
you know, the nervous system,which is the ego.
So unless it feels safe toreally release it, it's always
going to come back up and ittakes a lot of work.
You know what people don'trealize too.
(29:54):
If you didn't havecommunication or if you didn't
have secure attachments from ayoung age, your work is going to
be a lot more than somebodythat was securely attached.
Is it unfair?
Yeah, does it suck?
Yeah, the most rewarding workthat you could provide to
yourself, because life feelsmore fuller, it feels more safer
(30:17):
to be inside your body, itfeels more safer to be with the
mind and you know, when thenervous system comes up all
dysregulated and that innercritic starts going, you can
create that bit of space ofweight.
I'm feeling some emotions thatare making me feel unsafe and,
as you said, the strongest thingthat we can do is ask for help,
(30:38):
and I think that's where wehave to create more safety of
not criticizing, because withthis whole criticizing and blame
game, everybody hides who wantsto.
It takes a lot of courage to betransparent and accountable of
like I need some help and I theamount of courage it took me to
be like I'm messy, I need somehelp.
(30:59):
I don't know this space and putmyself out there.
Yet a lot of times, when we putourselves out there in society,
we get chastised and we getstrung up.
So why would somebody want toput themselves through that?
Yet we have to create safespaces within our dialogues of
no longer blaming, so that wedon't have to do the work that
(31:21):
we create that community andthat village of.
Let's work on this.
Let's not leave anybody behindbecause, oh, you should have
learned this here.
You're this age, so you shouldknow better.
And it's like you don't evenknow somebody's life history in
the context of what they've gonethrough, just because you see a
certain number or a demographicor an age that you think they
(31:41):
should have it all together.
Yet if they've never been giventhat skill and, like you said,
like life skills need to bereintroduced into the education
system like sure, academics isgreat, if you don't have any
social skills or you don't evenknow how to take care of
yourself, what are we creatingas a society, right?
Speaker 2 (32:02):
No, no, that's true.
When I see all these fights andfighting videos and you know,
and I'm like, oh my gosh, that'swhat it is.
It's skills, it's it's notbeing able to get through
conflict and you know people notunderstanding that conflict is
actually healthy.
There's a lot that comes out ofconflict.
Actually, new, innovative ideascome out of conflict.
(32:26):
So, it's not a bad thing, butpeople look at conflict but
that's because they're scared ofit, because they don't know how
to handle it.
Right, there's, you know, theyhave the ambiguity around it
because they're like I don't,well, this is an area that I'm
not, you know, comfortablehandling because I don't have
the skills, and that's that'sreally what it is.
It's having the skills to dealwith conflict or any adversity,
(32:50):
which goes back to resilience.
Once again, it's a skill andyou have to build it.
But which goes back toresilience Once again, it's a
skill and you have to build it.
But you have to build it in theright way, in a way that's
comfortable for you.
Again, the first, remember Isaid in the beginning I thought
resilience was being strong andpushing through and you know,
you get pull yourself up by yourbootstraps and you don't tell
anybody and you just, you know,don't cry and you just go.
When I started learning likethat's not what resilience is at
(33:12):
all, like, I mean, it's alittle bit of that, but it's
more so of being very self-awareand understanding what it is
that you can do right and theresources that you have, whether
it's financial resources,whether it's human resources,
whatever it may be, it's justrecognizing what you have around
(33:33):
you.
Whatever it may be, it's justrecognizing what you have around
you and I kind of want to talkabout.
You talked about survival modeand a lot of times, when you're
in constant survival mode,that's really not resilience.
People think that it is, butit's really not like you're.
You you're not supposed to begoing from crisis to crisis,
(33:53):
crisis to crisis.
Right At some point you need toreprieve, you need a break.
But if you find yourself goingfrom crisis to crisis to crisis
to crisis, you're in survivalmode, and so you're going to
have to find a way to get out ofthat.
Because what happens is and thisis just from researching, what
I've learned, because Ifunctioned in survival mode for
(34:14):
a little while too is thatreally you're not really
handling your problems whenyou're in survival mode because
at that time you're in what theycall your reptilian brain right
, your lizard brain.
So you're really not using thedepths of your higher and
critical thinking or higherlevel thinking when you're in
survival mode, of your higherand critical thinking or higher
(34:36):
level of thinking when you're insurvival mode.
So when you solve problems whenyou're in survival mode, then
you're just putting band-aids onthem, and so that's why things
keep happening over and over andover, because you're just
putting band-aids on yourproblems.
You're really not handling yourproblems like you need to,
right, and so that's somethingthat I had to learn, and I know
that's like you said, it'seasier said than done, but
that's why you know whether youget a support system, are you
(34:59):
find a partner to hold youaccountable to say but?
But you had to be open to it,right?
So because sometimes we don'twant to hear, it stings.
It stings Right it does it doesit's like, ah, ouch, okay, did
you have to pinch me that hard?
But, like I said, sometimes ourlife-jack moments are
(35:23):
self-induced at times and so wejust have to recognize that.
Not all the time, but you know,sometimes they can be.
But it's recognizing that, okay, I've got to get out of
survival mode, I've got to getout of my reptilian brain and I
have to really think about thechoices and the decisions that
I'm making, because sometimesit's like, does this really make
(35:45):
sense?
But again, we're just fixingthe problem just right now,
immediately, right when, if youjust pause for a moment and
really think about the problem,how do I solve this problem?
And just take your time.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
I want to add to that , when you've been in survival
mode for so long, chaos becomeshome and you don't recognize
that that's not where home issupposed to be.
So, as much as you don't wantall the crises, your body has
learned that this is wheresafety is in this chaos.
This is what home.
(36:21):
So, as you said, being able todo introspection.
You know, take those and I getit like this.
This stuff is easier said thandone when people are in
environments and financialconstraints that they're working
three jobs, they're not able totake a breath and everything
else.
Like like you're blaming me forwhat's going on and it's like.
(36:44):
This is nothing about blame.
It's about being able to takeaccess of your biology, because
we do attract things with ournervous system and we create
narratives that we want tosupport in our lived experiences
.
I know it does.
It sounds like what?
What do you talk?
Yet once you understand alittle bit more of your
psychology and you understandyour nervous system and how
(37:06):
intelligent it is, it's verycounterintuitive, it's very
reversed.
So it's intellectually itdoesn't make sense, because why
would I do that to myself?
And it's not that you're doingit.
This is something that youlearned through feeling.
It's not an intellectual thing.
So that's why, in the work thatI do, it's like I'm getting you
out of your head and back intoyour body so that you can
(37:28):
release these traumas and thesesuppressed emotions that are
charging and supporting anarrative, because you're
getting something out of this.
Because you know, sometimespeople want to have the
narrative of victim mode and allthese things are going wrong.
Because you know, people lookat you and you're like, oh my
gosh, how are you surviving allthis?
And I'm like I have a lot ofthings that I went through in my
(37:49):
life and I know some of it wasjust life is lifing and some of
it was self induced, becausethat was the chaos I was used to
.
This is what I defined asresilience and I'm going to just
push through and I have to havepain.
I don't know what ease is andhow things can be received.
I think I have to go out thereand you know, go, grasp it and
(38:10):
everything else.
But that takes, you know, awillingness to.
You know, do that inner work.
So you know, like Dr Rowe said,if you're looking for things,
you know, sometimes our friendsand our partners aren't the best
people to use because they havea filter of not being able to
be fully honest or they'll be ina lot of judgment because they
(38:33):
don't know how to witness yourpain.
So, you know, getting a coachor hiring somebody or speaking,
you know, finding safety insomebody else, that will really
bring you into a place where youcan do some deep work because
there's not this barrier ofconstraint with the relationship
, if that makes sense, can youspeak a little bit more on why a
(38:54):
coach is, like as such, abetter instrument?
Some people aren't able toafford it.
I get that.
Yeah, just be.
You know, give the caution ofwhat can happen with family
members, friends or partnerswhen we use them for that
accountability.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
No, absolutely.
So.
You know.
You hire a coach, someone likeme, as a resilience coach to
kind of, you know, walk besideyou, right, and but in an
objective way, because I don't,you know, with my clients.
Of course I get to know themover time, but initially I don't
know my clients, right, we'renot getting together and going
(39:32):
to, you know, have lunch andbrunch, and I'm not coming to
their house for their kids'birthday parties, right, so I'm
objective.
So I only know the things thatyou tell me.
I don't know the background, Idon't know the history, I only
know what you tell me and I amable to work with you, right, to
do actionable steps towardswhatever the goal is that you
(39:54):
are trying to achieve.
Right, which is different fromyour family, because your family
has all the history, yourfamily has all the history of
the things that you know, andthey also have some of the
information of things that youdon't know, also because they
know other people that you alsoknow, and so sometimes, like you
said, yes, and so sometimes,like you said, yes, it's hard
for family members and partnersto be objective at times,
(40:18):
because they have moreinformation and they also have
feelings, because they careabout you because they're
connected to you and, just as wetalked about earlier, it's hard
for us to go see our childrenor people that we love go
(40:39):
through life jacked moments anda lot of times we just want to
solve their problems for them,right, and so sometimes it's not
good to solve someone else'sproblem, as they say.
You know, you got to teachpeople how to fish and not just
fish for them, and feed themlike you got to feed.
You got to make sure that theyknow how to feed themselves at
times, because what if you'renot there one day?
Then?
they're just going to be hungry?
No, right.
But you hire a coach and wejust go through.
(41:02):
You know a process, and what Ido with, with my all of my
clients that I work with, is,you know, the first time we just
kind of talk about what is itthat you're consistently having
trouble with?
Why do you think you need tobuild resilience?
And everybody pretty much knows, like, where they struggle in
in a particular area, and itcould be their finances, it
(41:22):
could be love, it could be withparenting, it could be just
relationships in general, itcould be career.
There's all types of areas wherewe may need to build resilience
, because you can findresilience in all areas of your
life, because in all the time,as you said, life be lifin'.
So, you know, sometimes there'shabits that we form around our
(41:45):
finances, right, and sometimesthat causes us to be life jacked
or something happens that hasnothing to do with what we've
done in the past.
It's just out of our controlbecause it just happens, right.
But how do you push throughthat particular event, right?
What steps can you put in placeto eat that elephant?
(42:06):
And so we just work throughthat process.
But there's actionable stepsand some of it is very
introspective, right.
Some of it is that you got todo some deep, deep work.
Now I'm not a therapist, okay,so I have to put that disclaimer
out there.
I'm not a therapist and so I doif there's some trauma that
(42:28):
comes out.
I am not equipped to deal withthose types of things.
So, but I do, I can recommendyou know some therapists that
you can access.
You know there's a network thatyou know you can access through
your insurance or if you don'thave insurance.
But for sure, because a lot oftimes it does bring up trauma
(42:51):
and it does bring up childhoodexperiences, because our
experiences in our childhoodlead to who we are and why we do
the things that we do.
And we do them, and sometimes wedon't even know why we do them,
but it turns out it's becauseof something that happened in
our childhood or when we wereyounger, and so we found a way
to like okay, so the next time,this is how I'm going to deal
(43:12):
with this situation every singletime, right, and it may not be
the best way to deal with it,and you know.
So for those things, you know,and I kind of navigate through
that with my clients and I justkind of tell them hey, you know,
this may be something, this isan area that you know I'm not
equipped to deal with and helpyou through.
(43:32):
But you know there are otherareas that we can work on.
And if you, you know, feel likeyou need to go to therapy or
and I am a big, huge proponentof therapy and people going to
therapy I have a therapistmyself, my children, they go to
therapy and they need to talkout, you know, different
experiences or things, like Isaid, it's the skills, it's the
skill building to just navigatelife, because life it definitely
(43:57):
lives, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Exactly, exactly.
I'm mindful of time, so I wantto ask you an introspective
question.
I want to ask you to bring yourawareness right now and to go
back to your 18 year old selfawareness right now and to go
back to your 18 year old selfand what are three words you
(44:21):
would tell your 18 year old selfto carry you?
Speaker 2 (44:25):
to the journey to right now.
I would say stay true toyourself, stay true.
And of course that's four but,but.
But I would say that oftentimesI sometimes would kind of adapt
to my environment and besomething else just to fit into
(44:46):
the environment, and I don'tthink that served me well at
times, and so that's what Iwould say.
I mean now I'm the same nomatter what environment I'm in
pretty much the same.
You know, I am authenticallywho I am and I'm not afraid or
ashamed of who I am, and I getto be that person 100% all the
(45:09):
way through, whereas before Iwould hide bits and pieces of
myself or I would tell littlelies that you know weren't
necessarily true, about myselfor what I didn't like or what I
did like, and they weren't true,but I was just saying them to
make sure I adapted to myenvironment and that I fit in.
But that's something that Iwould say is to stay true to
(45:32):
yourself.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
So I know many listeners are probably like okay
, so where can I find Dr Rose?
So could you let them knowyourself, your services and also
where they can find the podcast.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Absolutely.
So you can pretty much findeverything, whether it's my book
, because I have a journal toyou know, do self a lot of self
discovery.
It's called the ultimate selfreflection journal, and so you
can find that on Amazon.
You just search do self a lotof self-discovery, it's called
the Ultimate Self-ReflectionJournal, and so you can find
that on Amazon.
You just search my name, ronikaL Jacobs, R-O-N-I-C-A, l Jacobs
, j-a-c-o-b-s, and you justsearch that in Amazon, it'll
(46:06):
come right up.
Also, you can go to my website,and that is wwwronicaljacobscom
.
If you go there, you'll see allthe guests that I have on my
podcast.
You'll see Nat Nat.
(46:26):
Her episode is in there.
But you can listen to Lifejacks, the resilience podcast, on any
streaming platform, whetherit's Amazon Music, I, I'm sorry
Apple Podcasts, iheartradio,pandora, spotify, I mean you
(46:46):
name it.
It's YouTube.
You can definitely go toYouTube as well.
I have a couple of.
My podcast is mostly audio, butI do have a couple of video.
A couple of my podcast ismostly audio, but I do have a
couple of video.
If you would like anyone outhere that's listening or
watching, if you would like tobe a guest, same thing, go to
the website.
I'd love to have you on as aguest.
If you want resilience coachingsame thing you book through the
(47:08):
website.
I have different coachingpackages.
They're absolutely affordablebecause I, too, have been in a
you know a position where Icouldn't afford it, but I needed
the help.
I needed the support of someonethat was objective, that was
not going to judge me and wasgoing to walk with me side by
side and just help me reach mygoals, and so I'm here to help
(47:30):
you do just that.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
I have a question Do you work with people
internationally?
Is it done over Zoom and sothat people around the world
could work with you?
Speaker 2 (47:42):
Absolutely you can.
Yes, all the I'm sorry, not theepisodes, but all the coaching
sessions are online through Zoom.
So, yes, you can just click thelink once I send it to you and
you can access it anywhere Isend you.
You can book whenever, cause Iyou basically want to.
If you build a whole coachingI'm sorry, if you purchase a
whole coaching program it'susually 10 sessions that we go
(48:05):
through a series Um and uh.
You will get the links and thenyou just book.
You know whenever it works foryour schedule.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Okay, cause I know a lot of times because we are
doing this on a podcast and some, I want to just bring more of
the safety so that if somebodyhad that question it's already
answered.
So it takes away a little moreof the being afraid to reach out
.
So at any time you know ifyou've got tingles or ahas,
(48:35):
that's your limbic, limbicsystem letting you know that Dr
Rowe has something for you.
So as you see how approachableshe is and her style, just shoot
her an email, contact her.
Are you on social media also?
Speaker 2 (48:49):
I am on social media, so if you just search life
jacks podcast anywhere, all theplatforms on TikTok, on
Instagram, on Facebook, onLinkedIn, any of those places.
Search Lifejacks, theresilience podcast or Lifejacks
podcast you'll find it.
(49:09):
I'm the only one with Lifejacks.
I own that name, nice, so Iregistered trademark.
So it's mine.
Love it, search it, you'll findme.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Love it, Love it.
So, as I said, you know, reachout to her.
Reach out and just send amessage and see what that would
look like to work and start theprocess and everything else.
Because, as we said, you know,we all started somewhere also.
So, the most times when weoffer services, because it was
something intimate within ourown life and now we've
(49:43):
alchemized it and we want toshare that gold with other
people.
Now I want to ask you what isone sentence or sentiment that
you would want to leave thelisteners that would empower
them?
Speaker 2 (50:00):
You can do anything that you want to do.
You really really can Like.
Sometimes we feel like, oh mygosh, I'm not going to be able
to get all of this done, but Ireally believe that you can do
everything that you want to doand you can have it all you
really can.
You just have to come up with aplan and a strategy to make it
(50:23):
happen.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
Dr Rowe, I want to thank you for being vulnerable,
for being you, being quirky,being so approachable and, you
know, speaking in a languagethat feels safe, that doesn't
feel critical or judgmental.
It actually, like you said,you're walking alongside with
people and thank you for thelight and the resources and the
(50:47):
skills that you're bringing toso many people so that they can,
you know, change the trajectoryof their life and start the
change from within.
So thank you for being you.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
No, thank you, Nat.
Nat, I had a wonderful time.
Thank you to your listeners.
You have a fantastic show.
As podcasters, as Black femalepodcasters, we have to support
each other.
I support you, sis.
I'm here for you.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
I'm cheering for you.
Yes, yes, other, because I usedto work in the law enforcement,
so the boys clubs.
So at times when you're in thatkind of field, you feel like
you have to be in survival andpush through.
Where it's like, no, we can befeminine, we can be soft, but we
can still be assertive and wecan have all of those parts, not
just being that masculine andkind of push through with that.
(51:50):
We can be soft and supportiveof each other and we can nurture
each other and also, you know,keep ourselves accountable of.
You're going the wrong way, likewe have to create spaces where
we feel safe to be called outand once we understand that
you're calling me out for mygrowth not to belittle me we can
thrive and that's all we wantto do.
(52:12):
So I appreciate being on yourpodcast, I appreciate you
accepting being online and Ihope you'll come back again so
that we can dive even deeperinto other topics, because you
have a plethora of tools andexperience to share with the
listeners.
So I'm here for you and I thankyou so much.
Yes, thank you.
(52:33):
Please remember to be kind toyourself.
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