June 2, 2025 โข 47 mins
What happens when you bring together a nervous system expert and a Harvard-trained psychotherapist who survived flesh-eating disease? A profound conversation about the true nature of healing, resilience, and self-discovery.
This episode opens with a guided mindfulness practice that immediately demonstrates how we can create space between awareness and thoughtsโa foundational skill for genuine transformation. As Harvard-educated psychotherapist Madelaine Weiss shares her remarkable journey, we discover how her insatiable curiosity and personal challenges shaped her unique approach to helping others "make their dreams come true."
Through vulnerable storytelling and scientific insights, Madelaine reveals why perception is so limited yet we cling to our narratives as absolute truth. "Out of 11 million bits of information our senses receive every second, our conscious mind processes only 5 bits," she explains, illuminating why genuine curiosity and openness are essential for growth. Her near-death experience with flesh-eating disease offers a powerful reframe: "Every single one of us has already lived through everything we've ever been through"โa simple but profound reminder of our inherent resilience.
The conversation reaches its emotional peak when discussing faith, revealing it's not about avoiding pain but maintaining an open heart regardless of circumstances. This episode brilliantly demonstrates that true healing is an inside job, not dependent on external circumstances changing but on our relationship with ourselves transforming. You'll walk away with practical insights on navigating uncertainty, processing difficult emotions, and accessing your innate capacity for joy even amid challenges.
Ready to discover the warrior within? Connect with Madeline at madelaineweiss.com explore her books, free resources, and personalized guidance for your own healing journey.
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Music by NaturesEye
Opening Music "Whip" by kontraa
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
NatNat (00:00):
Welcome to the Lift One Self podcast, where we break
mental health stigmas throughconversations.
I'm your host, nat Nat, and wedive into topics about trauma
and how it impacts the nervoussystem.
Yet we don't just leave youthere.
We share insights and tools ofself-care, meditation and growth
(00:21):
that help you be curious aboutyour own biology.
Your presence matters.
Please like and subscribe toour podcast.
Help our community grow.
Let's get into this.
Oh, and please remember to bekind to yourself.
Madeline Weiss (00:36):
Welcome to the Lift One Self podcast.
I'm your host, Nat Nat, andtoday we are with Madeline Wise,
who is going to share with usher book, the reason why she
wrote the book and a little bitabout herself and what she has
to offer to people.
So, Madeline, could youintroduce yourself to say it
here and now, which is I helppeople make their dreams come
(01:11):
true.
You know, and that's not reallymy formal bio, but I just want
you all to know that things canbe better than we sometimes
think they are.
I don't know, Nat, which bookyou're referring to.
I know that I talked to youabout my kids book.
Yeah, but we also have my onefor adults, which kind of syncs
(01:37):
a lot with what I just said,because the process of this is
how people get from too great intheir lives, and that's what I
mean by making their dreams cometrue, Sometimes dreams they
didn't even know they had.
So let's see, I am aHarvard-trained licensed
(01:59):
psychotherapist, board-certifiedecotherapist, board certified.
(02:29):
This is a mouthful boardcertified executive, career and
life coach with an MBA who helpspeople to find more freedom and
fulfillment and satisfactionand success and just kind of
flourishing in their lives.
I'm going to look forward tothis conversation.
I'm already intrigued and havesome questions already in mind.
Before we dive in.
Will you join me in a mindfulmoment so that we can ground
ourselves.
I would love to.
What a gift.
NatNat (02:45):
And for the listeners.
As you always hear, safetyfirst.
Please do not close your eyesif you need your visual, yet the
other prompts you're able tofollow through with us.
So, madeline, I'll ask you toget comfortable in your position
and, if it's safe to do so,I'll ask you to gently close
your eyes and you're going tobegin breathing in and out
(03:05):
through your nose and you'regoing to bring your awareness to
watching your breath go in andout through your nose.
You're not going to try andcontrol your breath, you're just
going to be aware of its rhythm, allowing it to guide you into
your body.
Now there may be some sensationsor feelings coming up.
(03:27):
That's okay, let them come up.
You're safe to feel.
You're safe to let go.
Surrender the need to control,release the need to resist and
just be, be with your breath,drop deeper into your body.
(03:51):
Now there may be some thoughtsor to-do lists that have popped
up in your mind, and that's okay.
Gently, bring your awarenessback to your breath, creating
space between the awareness andthe thoughts and dropping even
deeper into your body, allowingyourself to just be.
(04:16):
Again, more thoughts may havepopped up.
Gently, bring your awarenessback to your breath again.
More thoughts may have poppedup.
Gently bring your awarenessback to your breath, beginning
again, creating even more spacebetween the awareness and the
thoughts and dropping evendeeper into your body,
(04:42):
completely releasing and lettinggo being in the space of just
being observing.
(05:03):
Now coming into your senses atyour own time and at your own
pace.
You're going to gently openyour eyes while still staying
with your breath.
How is your heart?
doing.
My heart is grateful to you forthat.
I was thinking there's amorning meditation that I do
every morning and I love theprompting on this meditation.
(05:32):
However, at the end he sayssomething that is so funny.
He says something like um, like, take three breaths or
something about the breath untilyou come back into the room and
I'm thinking what are yousupposed to do about breathing
(05:53):
after you're back into that?
I don't know, I just thinkthat's kind of funny, but the
whole thing is so wonderful.
Up to that point he meant well,yeah yeah,
I just uh, help people to just come back and remember
that they're in this state ofthe space between stimulus and
response and that they can stillbring that in their awareness.
(06:16):
Their eyes don't just have tobe closed in that.
Um yeah, you sound like victorfrankel yeah, I.
I take from the great wise onesof lived experience of trying to
explain what we're bringingpeople into, because it's not an
intellectual thing, um, so itcan be very challenging
(06:37):
sometimes to articulate.
So that's why I bring peopleinto a mindful moment, because
then they're like what the theheck is this dimension?
I didn't know anything aboutthis.
Like, what is this?
Madeline Weiss (06:46):
It's like yeah, and the reason I told you that
anecdote is because I noticedthat, conversely, you told us to
stay with the breath.
So that seemed to me, giventhat it's easy to make the
mistake of saying that in adifferent way.
So anyway,
NatNat (07:05):
yeah, because you know that's our tools.
It's the freest tool that youhave.
Yet when we're, you know,activated in the nervous systems
, dysregulated and there's abunch of wounds and emotions
that are coming up that youdon't want to feel, to access
your breath, to help, you know,feel and let go um and integrate
(07:26):
and process, it's like, oh, I,I don't know what that thing is
and no, and it's like, but the,the breath, is your sail that
helps you ride those sadamis um,and that's why it's a practice.
You know there's no perfectionin this and that's why we always
need reminders, too, too, ofwhy we need radical compassion.
Madeline Weiss (07:47):
So my question I was just going to say that I'm
turning my ringer off because Iforgot to do that.
I was just going to say that,given that the mind wanders 70
percent of the time, what youjust did is a godsend.
NatNat (07:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I introduced it in mypodcast like over a year ago,
and I was a little timid to doit because, you know, dead
airspace on, you know a podcast,you might lose people.
Yet in a world where we keeptelling people to meditate, it's
like well, why are we notactually modeling it and
inviting it in our interactionsso that people can see what
(08:23):
power there is?
You know, a lot of people havethe wrong definition around
meditation.
They think it's going to shutoff their mind and make
everything go zen and it's likeactually no, it's going to bring
you into reality and do a checkin to see what needs to be felt
in process that you're ignoring.
Actually, be there for yourselfand you can get into that
(08:45):
center.
You know people hook into mynervous system, so that's why
they can get into that sense ofspace.
Yet it's also recognizing it'snot me that's doing it, your
nervous system.
You can do that on your ownAlso.
It's just that you've beenshown a way that, oh, this is
possible for me and it's yeah.
Yet it just takes practice tounderstand your nervous system
(09:08):
and disarm those defensemechanisms that we well, I call
ego, that are protecting youfrom vulnerability and from the
self.
So you mentioned that you werefrom Harvard and you mentioned
some big titles of board,certified and all this stuff.
So yeah, and I'd like to ask youwhat got you into that?
Madeline Weiss (09:33):
I could tell you another story.
It was actually on the day of9-11.
It was actually back that far.
I was taking a I don't knowwhat degrees I already had, but
I was taking a graduate levelintro course at Harvard because
(09:55):
I was thinking of parlaying thatinto on the road to a PhD,
which I had already gottenaccepted to for Harvard and
turned down.
And that's a whole other story.
But I raised my hand You'regoing to love this, nanette.
I raised my hand and I said tothe teacher you know, I notice
(10:17):
that you use brain and mindinterchangeably and I'm
wondering if you could unpackthat for us.
And the teacher got a littlehuffy with me and said well,
I'll tell you what.
Why don't we just take yourbrain out, put it on a slab,
slice it up and see what's leftof your mind?
(10:38):
I know, look at your face.
So at the end I went up to himafter class and I said I'm so
sorry.
I could tell that you did notappreciate my question and I'm
really sorry for having raisedthat.
And he said and this is theanswer to your question.
(11:02):
And he said that's okay, youhave epistemic hunger.
So I had to run home and lookup epistemic hunger because I
didn't know what that was yeah,could you tell me, because I'm
like, what is this academic wordnow?
yeah, it's, it's hungry to learn.
So when you ask me, what are allthese degrees about?
(11:24):
You know, different people havedifferent ways of like coping
with life struggles and I thinkmine has always been that Like
if I just like learn enough,somehow I'll be able to handle
whatever it is.
So I always like would run toand I'm so I'm driving chat GPT
(11:49):
crazy and chat GPT is like sopolite, but I'm constantly this
question, that question, and inmy yearbook there's a picture of
me with my hand up in highschool saying it and it says oh,
(12:10):
madeline's eternal questions.
So this is not new and thathappened way before I kept and I
studied which is not even on myresume at Veda, vedanta for 25
years.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
(12:30):
So, just like he said, hungry,just really hungry, and I'm
assuming it's forproblem-solving purposes, but
maybe not.
Maybe it's just nature, maybeit's just my nature solving
purposes, but maybe not.
Maybe it's just nature, maybeit's just my nature, but anyway,
that's what comes up for thequestion.
(12:51):
Yeah,
NatNat (12:51):
I think you know sometimes from my own experience
what's lacking sometimes in youknow the mental health with,
like you know, psychotherapy orpsychiatry, is the curiosity
part.
Yet it seems like yourcuriosity has been untethered.
Madeline Weiss (13:08):
It's off the chart
NatNat (13:08):
and you've been wanting it to find out all kinds of
crevices and places and stuff.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know it'squirky.
No, not at all.
You're honoring yourself,you're honoring yourself and
you're you're feeding into whatis needed.
I want to ask you know, yougave us the privilege of being
(13:32):
the first time saying that youhelp people with their dreams,
that you put it in very simpleterms.
Madeline Weiss (13:39):
It's on my Instagram profile and I noticed
it the other day and I thought,huh, I actually put that there.
So that made it fresher in mymind.
But it's not routinely.
If somebody asks me about mybackground or what I do, I don't
routinely say that, yeah, whatdoes that look like?
(14:01):
Yeah, what does that look likeFor them?
Yeah.
So I one day said to myself andI told you how varied my
background is and my range ofcuriosity we'll call it is.
So one day I said, god, youknow, these people that I'm
(14:29):
working with are all doingreally great.
And then I said what are youdoing?
Like, you know, I could bepulling any old kind of tool out
of my toolkit is packed withall kinds of stuff like from
soup to nuts, because of allthat curiosity like brain
science and evolutionarypsychology and Advaita Vedanta
and psychodynamic psychotherapyand all this kind of stuff.
(14:52):
So it's all in there and if youwork with me, I'm sitting there
with all of that and, based onthe interaction, who knows what
I'll pull out when.
But I just thought, thoughtlike, what's happening here?
What's actually happening?
So I laid out all my cases andI like sort of sat back and did
(15:13):
like a zen thing and it came tome that there was.
There's a process that peoplego through and even though
they're all different age,ethnicity, occupation, you name
it there's this process, theyall go through.
NatNat (15:31):
I love that you're finally
allowing yourself to be seen.
Madeline Weiss (15:38):
What prompted that?
NatNat (15:42):
Because you brought out the simplicity of being
empowered, of honoring the giftthat you have rather than
doubting yourself, becauseacademia, academia always
berates that you're not goodenough, and too much confidence
can be not well received.
Madeline Weiss (16:00):
I should, I should?
You're right.
You're right about the too muchconfidence.
And when I test, like on theMyers-Briggs or tests like that,
they say I have this kind ofvision.
That could come off asarrogance.
I didn't know until about 20that I was even like, let's say,
(16:21):
smart.
I didn't, which is why Iresponded to you when you said
that, like, how does she know?
So you have a knowing, becauseI, after my father died when I
(16:44):
was 15, I was lucky that Igraduated high school.
NatNat (16:49):
Yeah.
Madeline Weiss (16:51):
So yeah, so it wasn't always.
I didn't always have thisconfidence and I didn't always
have this level of performance.
I was pretty shaky as a kid, asI recall.
NatNat (17:08):
How did you find the safety within yourself?
Madeline Weiss (17:13):
I started getting feedback.
I put my neck out there, youknow.
I went to.
I kind of clawed my way intocollege.
They rejected me the first timeand I went.
I made an appointment with the.
I went on this cruise and metthese people and I told them
(17:34):
that I had just gotten rejectedfrom a state school and they
said well, you can't let thatstand, you have to go tell them.
So I made an appointment withthe dean and I walked in and I
sat down and I started bawlingand he said all right, all right
(17:56):
, all right, because I was atransfer student.
I was taking a smattering ofcourses somewhere else without
really matriculating, and theysaid they weren't taking any
more transfer students and myhigh school transcript was not
that impressive.
But they took me and I said tomyself okay, I have to get a 4.0
(18:16):
here.
So I did, and I was in anhonors program and they said
something.
When they wrote my referenceafterwards, they said something
like we doubt that she evenknows how brilliant she is.
And that was the first time Iheard that word.
(18:39):
Talking to me?
Is that me Is?
NatNat (18:42):
that me, I know.
Yeah.
So I have this question if yourpain could speak, what would it
say?
Madeline Weiss (18:54):
Oh, you know what I can answer that my pain
would say why can't you see whatI see, or why won't you see
what I see?
That's what my pain would say.
NatNat (19:08):
And what is it seeing?
Madeline Weiss (19:18):
I see differently than a lot of people
and in fact I'm like 2%.
What is it?
2% of the general populationand 1% for women?
In the type of vision that Ihave and the type of vision that
I, have.
(19:43):
I'm not going to tell youspecifically because it's things
going on in the world and wedidn't want to go there.
I don't think, yeah, but yeah,and so that's a it's.
It's a hard place.
Okay, you know that's a, it's ahard place.
Okay, you know I can see whatother people see and how, even
how it makes sense to them.
(20:05):
But if they saw what I saw,they might feel and in fact in
this book I made a real.
I'm gonna show you a picture ofit.
I made a really big deal aboutthat for the kids.
I wanted them to know thateveryone's point of view.
(20:25):
Do you know the elephant story?
NatNat (20:28):
Tell me.
Madeline Weiss (20:29):
So the elephant story, as I start telling you,
you might know it is blind menand they bring an elephant into
the village and they tell themen to describe what an elephant
is.
But they're blind, so they canonly do it by feel.
So one of them feels the trunkand says, oh, an elephant is
(20:51):
like this, like a tree trunk.
This is really the one thing.
And then another one says no,it's not.
It's.
The one holding the ear saysit's flat, it's totally flat.
And then someone else says, oh,it's this like skinny long thing
.
And they fight like crazy witheach other because they're so
(21:12):
sure they're right and they areas far as they can quote unquote
.
See, they're all right, noone's wrong for what they can
see, but we can't see it all.
I always like to tell peoplethese numbers.
(21:32):
You ready for some numbers?
So there are six times 70million zeros.
Fathom that.
I can't fathom that.
I don't even know.
70 million zeros, bits ofinformation in the universe.
Out of those 11 million bits ofinformation get sent from our
(21:56):
senses you were talking aboutthe senses to the senses, to our
brain, every second.
And out of that, the consciousmind is aware of five bits of
information.
So every time I say that, Ithen say so.
Anybody who thinks they knowanything is sorely mistaken,
(22:18):
because none of us is playingwith the full deck.
No, and so, like by nature, bynurture, by your upbringing, by
your genetic makeup, whatever itis, we don't all see the same
thing, and there's so much tosee and we can't possibly see it
all.
So the mind, the mind doesn'twant to feel crazy.
(22:41):
So the mind makes up anarrative and it thinks it's
true and so what I believe, mynarrative is the true one and
yours is ridiculous, and that'show we are, and that's how we
(23:07):
really are in these times, right, and it doesn't appear more
threatened we feel, and there,you know, are so many different
(23:30):
kinds of environmental externalthreats right now.
That's my two cents on why Ithink it's getting worse and
worse, because,
NatNat (23:39):
yeah, it's a lot of dysregulated nervous systems,
and when a nervous system isdysregulated it's looking for
safety, so it's going to want tocreate certainty and if that
narrative or that story feelscertain, it feels safe.
So I'm going to bite on thatand I'm going to keep it as
truth and anything that comesaround that parameter.
That is a threat to take awayfrom my feeling of safety and
(24:03):
certainty.
Even though there is no suchthing as control, yet the mind
needs to have this illusion ofit thinking In a society that
you know you get chastised ofasking questions like you did at
the academic.
Can you tell me what's thedifference between a brain and
mind?
So because one's physical andone's kind of intellectual, you
(24:27):
get chastised for asking thesequestions.
Just do as you're told and justfigure it out.
Where it's like, we needcritical thinking, we need to be
able to challenge things, weneed to know why we're doing
certain things.
Yet you know a lotComing back into a home, I just
(25:19):
wrote a podcast.
Like I love how the universe isbecause I just wrote my
monologue podcast script that Ijust did, that I'm going to
publish next week, talkingexactly about this.
And you know, a lot of peoplethink healing is on the outside
and it's like, no, you got tolook at the mirror's edge and
you have to look at your ownreflection.
And sometimes you see and you'slike, no, you got to look at
the mirror's edge and you haveto look at your own reflection.
(25:40):
And sometimes you see andyou're like is that?
I don't like that?
And it's like, yeah, it is.
Look at your BS.
I was working with somebody Well, I'm I'm still working with her
For a while and I was trying toconvince her of everything you
just so beautifully said, by theway, and I was trying to
(26:01):
convince her that change is aninside job and she never quite
would go there with me.
She's kind of resistant, I wantto say maybe to authority, like
I'm an authority or something,but about two weeks ago and
(26:25):
she's working in a governmentagency, so she's really, you
know, feeling very threatenedright now, but she's piecing how
to cope together so well, likebetter than ever before she said
to me I'm feeling happy.
(26:45):
And then she said, of course, Imean, you were right all along
that it has to come from insideher, no matter what the heck is
going on out there.
And now it's really going onout there for her.
And it really was such a starksignal to her that, even though
(27:08):
that's going on out there, shemanaged to pull it off in here,
which meant that it is correctthat it's an inside job.
Madeline Weiss (27:20):
Yeah, power of choice.
We don't think you know.
If you don't start reallyfeeling your emotions, you don't
realize how much it hijacksyour behavior, because all it is
is that like.
For me, how I explain it to myclients is trauma is that space,
and that space is whereemotions come in and it feels
like a threat.
(27:40):
So you don't feel safe to be inthe space, you don't feel safe
to feel the emotions, all thearray emotions.
There's certain emotions thatare allowed and tolerable
because I've been told from theoutside, those are acceptable.
Yet those dense big emotionsreactive emotions those are
acceptable, yet those dense bigemotions, reactive emotions oh
(28:01):
no, as a child I've been tolddon't cry, don't get angry,
don't do this.
I may have been traumatized ina significant experience and I
never got to speak about it withanybody.
I never got to feel the safetyin expressing what was going on
and being seen, not justminimized, and feeling like an
inconvenience or feeling likethe perpetrator is getting all
(28:23):
the attention or whatnot thereis.
So, coming back into that space, a lot of people are looking
for a miracle cure that, oh, I'mjust going to take this and
it's going to make it allperfect, or there's this arrival
because the mind likes toarrive somewhere that I don't
got to keep predicting what'sgoing on.
Make it all perfect.
Or there's this arrival becausethe mind likes to arrive
somewhere that I don't got tokeep predicting what's going on
out there and whatnot.
Yet the real work is to changethe narrative that you think you
(28:48):
predict everything, that theunknown and uncertainty is safe
and that you can still feel joywhen you're feeling the fear.
It's not about negating thefear.
Your nervous system, a healthynervous system, needs to feel
fear.
Yet when it's activated,acknowledge it and also allow it
room for processing and thenremember how do I want to be in
(29:11):
this moment, how do I want tofeel.
This doesn't always happen.
I know some listening are goingto be like yeah, yeah, yada,
yada, nat, nat.
Nobody can really do this.
And I'm like I get it.
My friend just died in November.
I was in hospice, yeah, and youknow I held her until her last
breath, put her in the body bag,watch the cremation.
You know I.
(29:32):
Another friend died.
My car was totaled.
I didn't even total it.
Somebody drove it and got intoan accident.
I get it.
Was there a lot of emoting andcrying and frustration and anger
, yeah.
Yet I let myself feel thosethings to always remember, come
back to a state.
Come back to a state, not justbrew and think that that's my
(29:54):
identity.
You sound like you're headed fora breakthrough.
Do you know the book about?
You're a badass or something.
NatNat (30:04):
Yeah, who is it?
Madeline Weiss (30:06):
Jen Sincero yeah .
Yeah.
There's one thing she said thatstuck with me, which is that
when you're about to breakthrough something, all hell
breaks loose.
Yeah, and what you described,my God.
I'm yeah.
(30:26):
In spades.
NatNat (30:27):
Yeah, I was like today in the car dealership.
I was like I don't even want tobe in this situation, yet I'm
here and I wanted to cry and belike Natalie's not here and this
person, and it was like, okay,I feel that narrative.
I understand a bit of that, nota bit that victim mode of that
little girl that was traumatizedand wasn't seen as a young
(30:49):
child.
Yet it's like okay.
Yet we cannot reject reality.
So your emotions are valid.
The helplessness feels reallyyucky.
Yes, you didn't cause this, andthat makes it even more
difficult to be in a space thatyou didn't create because you
didn't get in the accident yet.
You will lose out on being ableto hear the solutions and pivot
(31:12):
to what is what is there foryou.
So you know, when I'm sayingall this, it sounds like oh,
like it's so much.
I've been using these tools forlike over a decade, so when I
can activate it on real time incertain places, this didn't come
overnight.
It came with a lot of warriorwork of being honest with myself
(31:37):
and feeling and understandingthe depths of my own nervous
system so that I could holdspace for other people, so that
they can unleash their curiosityand, rather than not validate
themselves.
Like you know who, whateveryou're experiencing is valid and
however you're seeing, it isvalid.
(31:58):
Just remember, though it's notthe absolute truth and that's
the most difficult thing to youknow.
Allow yourself to process andunderstand that
Madeline Weiss (32:09):
it is a truth Maybe not the whole truth and
nothing but the truth.
It's a truth.
You know, you're talking a lotabout confidence, really, and
how we get that.
And I want to tell you that Ihad believe it or not, because
(32:34):
it's hard to believe I think Ihad flesh-eating disease yeah
right, who gets that?
And I was in the hospital forseven weeks.
I had 10 trips to the OR and Iwas in occupational therapy for
six months.
I was out of work for threemonths, then I went back
(32:55):
part-time.
I mean, it was a bigyou-know-what deal, oh yeah.
And so when people talk aboutconfidence, it's not that you
know everything.
It's a feeling that I have fromthat, more than anything else,
(33:17):
I think, a feeling that,whatever it is, I'll figure it
out, like I never had anythinglike that going on in my life
before.
Nobody, I know, did either.
And people would say to me Idon't know how you're doing this
.
You need to come visit me inthe hospital, week after week
(33:39):
after week.
I don't know how you're doingthis.
And then they would say it madeyou so strong.
And then I would say, notexactly Because it didn't make
me anything, but it forced me tohave to dig inside for what is
(34:03):
inside of us all, and I had touse it.
But I wanted everybody to knowthis.
It's in there, not just meeveryone.
NatNat (34:17):
Everyone.
Madeline Weiss (34:18):
And you don't know.
And you don't know that untilyou need to use it.
But what builds confidence iswhen we see ourselves putting
one foot in front of the otherand doing what needs to be done.
And what people forget is thatevery single one of us has
already lived through everythingwe've ever been through.
NatNat (34:44):
Say that again because some listeners will be lost in
that.
Madeline Weiss (34:49):
That's why I paused, because I want that to
sink in.
I want that to sink in.
Every single one of you, everysingle one of us, has already
lived through every single thingwe've ever been through, and
(35:10):
remembering that it's confidencebuilding.
So I feel like now I can dothat.
What can I do?
So, even though I don't wishthat on anyone, in a way for me
it was that gift that I walkaround feeling like bring it on,
(35:33):
whatever it is, I'll figure itout.
It's not whatever it is, I knowhow to deal with it.
It's not that it's whatever itis, I'll figure it out, I'll
take care of it somehow.
Who knows?
NatNat (35:48):
Yeah, surrendering, that's the epitone of surrender.
Madeline Weiss (35:53):
I love how you always put everything I say into
real nice, plain talk like that.
Yeah,
NatNat (35:59):
that's what I've tried.
I've worked on refining thelanguage so that it's simple, so
that people can reallyunderstand.
And that I do the deeplistening so that when I reflect
back and that I do the deeplistening, so that when I
reflect back it's like I amlistening to you.
So it captures and itreinforces the connection that
we're all connected in.
Madeline Weiss (36:20):
You're very good at that, I feel it.
NatNat (36:26):
Thank you.
It's warrior work that I do andbuilding that confidence.
And to come back to thestrength that people keep
telling you, I think what it isthat people may be seeing is
that you have the courage to bein your vulnerability and not
shut down.
Yeah, because that was a veryvulnerable state to be in.
Madeline Weiss (36:53):
Oh my God, you can't even imagine.
NatNat (36:56):
Well, I had lesions in my brain.
I almost died.
I was in the hospital for 40days.
So I get a little bit my bodycompletely shut down yeah.
Yeah, so I'm not flesh eating.
I get some of the pain becausesome of the lesions were in my
meninges.
They were in my brainstem andin my cerebellum and in my
minges.
That's scary.
(37:18):
Yeah, it was.
I understand the helplessness.
I understand the physical pain.
I understand the learning againhow to live and try to figure
out how to communicate with yourbody and not chastise a body
that's putting you through allthis stuff and it's deep work
that goes on internally.
Madeline Weiss (37:40):
I was very tender toward my body.
I remember Nice, because theyskin grafted from my thigh to my
arm after they gouged out allthe dead and I remember looking
at it and thinking this lookslike sushi.
But I also thought it was like,and I still remember.
(38:04):
I also thought it was like alittle baby it was and I was
tending it like that Well, I hadto, because, yeah, and I was
tending it like that Well, I hadto, because, yeah, but I wasn't
.
I could see how somebody couldfeel, without even realizing it,
angry with their body forcrapping out on them like that.
(38:26):
But I don't remember feelingthat.
I remember, yeah.
NatNat (38:35):
Because you know, know, anger is protection.
So to be vulnerable and besensitive with it, anger would
be that protective emotion thatno, no, no, like I, I don't know
how to feel this vulnerabilityand that intimacy and and
trusting, trusting in theunknown, trusting in, like
people talk about they havefaith.
They have no idea what reallyfaith is.
Faith isn't getting your way.
Faith is being able to stillhave your heart open, no matter
(38:57):
where the experience is going,which is very difficult and very
challenging.
And your heart will closebecause it needs to protect,
because it's overwhelmed andit's a lot of processing.
Yet the work is to open it backup, and that's what faith is
when you know you're going toexperience pain like people
think I'm going to pray away andI won't experience pain, and
(39:19):
it's like no, that's not whatfaith is
Madeline Weiss (39:21):
.
NatNat (39:22):
Faith is despite.
I will still keep walking, andthat is warrior work, especially
when you'vewell, for seven weeks.
That's like debilitatingphysical pain that you went
through and it's like okay, Ican still feel it.
You know, yeah, viscerally,your body still kept that memory
.
It doesn't want to repeat that.
Madeline Weiss (39:44):
I can still feel what it felt like when they
brought me out of the recoveryroom and forgot about me and the
pain med wore off.
I can still feel it, yeah.
NatNat (39:57):
I still remember when they did a biopsy on my thigh
and it was raw so they didn't doany freezing because they said
they wanted a clean sample.
So they scalpeled three inchesof my thigh muscle and I still
feel it.
Madeline Weiss (40:12):
I think we just lost all your listeners.
NatNat (40:18):
So in the name of science.
Science does some wacky things,I tell you.
Yet in those experiences,there's a lot of resilience, if
you're willing to lean into it.
There's a lot of gifts in thatthat you just shared.
I am mindful of time, and so mynext question that I want to
(40:39):
ask you is I want to bring youinto a reflective question.
I want to ask you to bring thisawareness right now and go back
to your 18-year-old self, andif you have three words to tell
your 18-year-old self to carryyou to the journey of right now,
what would those three words be?
Madeline Weiss (41:04):
Can I have five?
Yeah, of course I'm just goingto non-filter it.
Yeah, what popped into my headwas you're going to not filter
it.
What popped into my head wasyou're going to do great.
That was the blur, because atthat time I was a mess, it's
(41:26):
understandable.
You're going through deep grief.
NatNat (41:30):
I was and feeling like an orphan.
Madeline Weiss (41:32):
Yeah, how'd you know's what your
NatNat (41:37):
parents did yeah, parents do, and it's a very uh,
the other side of love.
We're not really taught aboutthat and until you experience it
it's like, oh, this is an abyssthat doesn't have any grounding
, there's no body to feel yet tonavigate in.
That it's a sense of like, ooh,what is this place?
So it you know to be in thedark and trying to find your way
(42:03):
without people mentoring youand giving you guidance.
Significant warrior work.
Significant warrior work.
My next question is what wouldyour past self thank you for?
Madeline Weiss (42:24):
I know what it is.
I'm trying to figure out how toarticulate it.
It's related to what I justsaid for actually manifesting
the potential.
That's it.
I could have not, of course,but I did, yeah, and I'm
(42:48):
grateful.
NatNat (42:49):
I am too.
I am too.
What would your future self sayabout fear?
Madeline Weiss (43:01):
I'm giving you everything unfiltered here.
My future self would say it wasgreat how I had that licked
yeah.
NatNat (43:13):
And now, if curiosity had a voice, what would it say?
That licked yeah, all right.
Madeline Weiss (43:22):
And now, if curiosity had a voice, what
would it say?
Keep on enjoying me.
I appreciate you too.
NatNat (43:27):
Okay, so now I know the listeners are like okay, where
can I find this wonderful lady?
So can you let the listenersknow where they can find you and
what you have to offer and thetitles of your book, because I
know visually you showed us, yetyou didn't tell us what the
titles were.
Madeline Weiss (43:42):
Okay, so the kids book is what's your Story?
Building your Best Adventuresin School and Life.
I just did at the Malcolm XSchool here in DC.
I just did a book club with 10kids.
It was delightful.
I love them.
They're wonderful and they Imade them fill out evaluation
forms that they didn't know werecomingreat.
(44:04):
It's that five steps strategy.
I told you.
They all go through a processfive step strategy for work and
(44:24):
life, based on science andstories.
So I can make this really easy.
On my website you'll see iconsfor both of those books that
take you right to how you canget them.
There are also a bunch of otherbuttons there.
(44:46):
So there's a power breathingexercise.
It's not even two minutes.
So there's a tab that sayspower breathe and that's a 30
second mindset reset.
And next to that, I think,there's a blog tab and there are
(45:09):
hundreds of blogs on scienceand everyday matters like sleep
and food and money and all kindsof things.
And those are all the chaptersin the book the adult book, by
the way, too.
I have it segmented like that.
My favorite is Managing yourMouth, and it's not about food,
it's about when to speak andwhen not to speak.
So that's kind of fun.
That's kind of fun.
(45:31):
There's also a tab for onlinecourses and a tab for a free
introductory session.
If any of the listeners want toconnect with me and talk about
themselves in any of thesecontexts, I would love to hear
from you.
So it's Madeline Weiss dot comand the spelling is tricky.
(45:52):
Are they going to have thespelling from you?
So it's madelineweisscom andthe spelling is tricky.
Are they going to have thespelling from?
you, nana.
NatNat (45:58):
Yeah, there'll be a link in the show notes that they can
click on, Okay, yeah, well, Iwant to thank you for you know
the alchemy you've done in yourlife.
You've taken some realimpurities and you've turned
them into gold.
Yet you didn't keep that goldfor yourself.
(46:19):
You're sharing it with others.
So thank you for that.
You know, listening to thegentle nods within yourself and
going in that unknown path andsharing all that you have with
others.
It's a real delight to be inyour, you know, energy field and
your experience.
So thank you so much
Madeline Weiss (46:38):
Well ditto.
You are a gem, so thank you.
NatNat (46:43):
Thank you.
Please remember to be kind toyourself.
Madeline Weiss (46:47):
I am.
NatNat (46:51):
Hey, you made it all the way here I, you and your time.
If you found value in thisconversation, please share it
out.
If there was somebody thatpopped into your mind, take
action and share it out withthem.
It possibly may not be themthat will benefit.
It's that they know somebodythat will benefit from listening
(47:12):
to this conversation, so pleasetake action and share out the
podcast.
You can find us on social mediaon Facebook, instagram and
TikTok under Lift One Self, andif you want to inquire about the
work that I do and the servicesthat I provide to people, come
over on my website, come into adiscovery call Liftoneselfcom.
(47:37):
Until next time, pleaseremember to be kind and gentle
with yourself.
You matter.
Welcome to the Lift One Self podcast, where we break
mental health stigmas throughconversations.
I'm your host, nat Nat, and wedive into topics about trauma
and how it impacts the nervoussystem.
Yet we don't just leave youthere.
We share insights and tools ofself-care, meditation and growth
(00:21):
that help you be curious aboutyour own biology.
Your presence matters.
Please like and subscribe toour podcast.
Help our community grow.
Let's get into this.
Oh, and please remember to bekind to yourself.
Madeline Weiss (00:36):
Welcome to the Lift One Self podcast.
I'm your host, Nat Nat, andtoday we are with Madeline Wise,
who is going to share with usher book, the reason why she
wrote the book and a little bitabout herself and what she has
to offer to people.
So, Madeline, could youintroduce yourself to say it
here and now, which is I helppeople make their dreams come
(01:11):
true.
You know, and that's not reallymy formal bio, but I just want
you all to know that things canbe better than we sometimes
think they are.
I don't know, Nat, which bookyou're referring to.
I know that I talked to youabout my kids book.
Yeah, but we also have my onefor adults, which kind of syncs
(01:37):
a lot with what I just said,because the process of this is
how people get from too great intheir lives, and that's what I
mean by making their dreams cometrue, Sometimes dreams they
didn't even know they had.
So let's see, I am aHarvard-trained licensed
(01:59):
psychotherapist, board-certifiedecotherapist, board certified.
(02:29):
This is a mouthful boardcertified executive, career and
life coach with an MBA who helpspeople to find more freedom and
fulfillment and satisfactionand success and just kind of
flourishing in their lives.
I'm going to look forward tothis conversation.
I'm already intrigued and havesome questions already in mind.
Before we dive in.
Will you join me in a mindfulmoment so that we can ground
ourselves.
I would love to.
What a gift.
NatNat (02:45):
And for the listeners.
As you always hear, safetyfirst.
Please do not close your eyesif you need your visual, yet the
other prompts you're able tofollow through with us.
So, madeline, I'll ask you toget comfortable in your position
and, if it's safe to do so,I'll ask you to gently close
your eyes and you're going tobegin breathing in and out
(03:05):
through your nose and you'regoing to bring your awareness to
watching your breath go in andout through your nose.
You're not going to try andcontrol your breath, you're just
going to be aware of its rhythm, allowing it to guide you into
your body.
Now there may be some sensationsor feelings coming up.
(03:27):
That's okay, let them come up.
You're safe to feel.
You're safe to let go.
Surrender the need to control,release the need to resist and
just be, be with your breath,drop deeper into your body.
(03:51):
Now there may be some thoughtsor to-do lists that have popped
up in your mind, and that's okay.
Gently, bring your awarenessback to your breath, creating
space between the awareness andthe thoughts and dropping even
deeper into your body, allowingyourself to just be.
(04:16):
Again, more thoughts may havepopped up.
Gently, bring your awarenessback to your breath again.
More thoughts may have poppedup.
Gently bring your awarenessback to your breath, beginning
again, creating even more spacebetween the awareness and the
thoughts and dropping evendeeper into your body,
(04:42):
completely releasing and lettinggo being in the space of just
being observing.
(05:03):
Now coming into your senses atyour own time and at your own
pace.
You're going to gently openyour eyes while still staying
with your breath.
How is your heart?
doing.
My heart is grateful to you forthat.
I was thinking there's amorning meditation that I do
every morning and I love theprompting on this meditation.
(05:32):
However, at the end he sayssomething that is so funny.
He says something like um, like, take three breaths or
something about the breath untilyou come back into the room and
I'm thinking what are yousupposed to do about breathing
(05:53):
after you're back into that?
I don't know, I just thinkthat's kind of funny, but the
whole thing is so wonderful.
Up to that point he meant well,yeah yeah,
I just uh, help people to just come back and remember
that they're in this state ofthe space between stimulus and
response and that they can stillbring that in their awareness.
(06:16):
Their eyes don't just have tobe closed in that.
Um yeah, you sound like victorfrankel yeah, I.
I take from the great wise onesof lived experience of trying to
explain what we're bringingpeople into, because it's not an
intellectual thing, um, so itcan be very challenging
(06:37):
sometimes to articulate.
So that's why I bring peopleinto a mindful moment, because
then they're like what the theheck is this dimension?
I didn't know anything aboutthis.
Like, what is this?
Madeline Weiss (06:46):
It's like yeah, and the reason I told you that
anecdote is because I noticedthat, conversely, you told us to
stay with the breath.
So that seemed to me, giventhat it's easy to make the
mistake of saying that in adifferent way.
So anyway,
NatNat (07:05):
yeah, because you know that's our tools.
It's the freest tool that youhave.
Yet when we're, you know,activated in the nervous systems
, dysregulated and there's abunch of wounds and emotions
that are coming up that youdon't want to feel, to access
your breath, to help, you know,feel and let go um and integrate
(07:26):
and process, it's like, oh, I,I don't know what that thing is
and no, and it's like, but the,the breath, is your sail that
helps you ride those sadamis um,and that's why it's a practice.
You know there's no perfectionin this and that's why we always
need reminders, too, too, ofwhy we need radical compassion.
Madeline Weiss (07:47):
So my question I was just going to say that I'm
turning my ringer off because Iforgot to do that.
I was just going to say that,given that the mind wanders 70
percent of the time, what youjust did is a godsend.
NatNat (07:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I introduced it in mypodcast like over a year ago,
and I was a little timid to doit because, you know, dead
airspace on, you know a podcast,you might lose people.
Yet in a world where we keeptelling people to meditate, it's
like well, why are we notactually modeling it and
inviting it in our interactionsso that people can see what
(08:23):
power there is?
You know, a lot of people havethe wrong definition around
meditation.
They think it's going to shutoff their mind and make
everything go zen and it's likeactually no, it's going to bring
you into reality and do a checkin to see what needs to be felt
in process that you're ignoring.
Actually, be there for yourselfand you can get into that
(08:45):
center.
You know people hook into mynervous system, so that's why
they can get into that sense ofspace.
Yet it's also recognizing it'snot me that's doing it, your
nervous system.
You can do that on your ownAlso.
It's just that you've beenshown a way that, oh, this is
possible for me and it's yeah.
Yet it just takes practice tounderstand your nervous system
(09:08):
and disarm those defensemechanisms that we well, I call
ego, that are protecting youfrom vulnerability and from the
self.
So you mentioned that you werefrom Harvard and you mentioned
some big titles of board,certified and all this stuff.
So yeah, and I'd like to ask youwhat got you into that?
Madeline Weiss (09:33):
I could tell you another story.
It was actually on the day of9-11.
It was actually back that far.
I was taking a I don't knowwhat degrees I already had, but
I was taking a graduate levelintro course at Harvard because
(09:55):
I was thinking of parlaying thatinto on the road to a PhD,
which I had already gottenaccepted to for Harvard and
turned down.
And that's a whole other story.
But I raised my hand You'regoing to love this, nanette.
I raised my hand and I said tothe teacher you know, I notice
(10:17):
that you use brain and mindinterchangeably and I'm
wondering if you could unpackthat for us.
And the teacher got a littlehuffy with me and said well,
I'll tell you what.
Why don't we just take yourbrain out, put it on a slab,
slice it up and see what's leftof your mind?
(10:38):
I know, look at your face.
So at the end I went up to himafter class and I said I'm so
sorry.
I could tell that you did notappreciate my question and I'm
really sorry for having raisedthat.
And he said and this is theanswer to your question.
(11:02):
And he said that's okay, youhave epistemic hunger.
So I had to run home and lookup epistemic hunger because I
didn't know what that was yeah,could you tell me, because I'm
like, what is this academic wordnow?
yeah, it's, it's hungry to learn.
So when you ask me, what are allthese degrees about?
(11:24):
You know, different people havedifferent ways of like coping
with life struggles and I thinkmine has always been that Like
if I just like learn enough,somehow I'll be able to handle
whatever it is.
So I always like would run toand I'm so I'm driving chat GPT
(11:49):
crazy and chat GPT is like sopolite, but I'm constantly this
question, that question, and inmy yearbook there's a picture of
me with my hand up in highschool saying it and it says oh,
(12:10):
madeline's eternal questions.
So this is not new and thathappened way before I kept and I
studied which is not even on myresume at Veda, vedanta for 25
years.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
(12:30):
So, just like he said, hungry,just really hungry, and I'm
assuming it's forproblem-solving purposes, but
maybe not.
Maybe it's just nature, maybeit's just my nature solving
purposes, but maybe not.
Maybe it's just nature, maybeit's just my nature, but anyway,
that's what comes up for thequestion.
(12:51):
Yeah,
NatNat (12:51):
I think you know sometimes from my own experience
what's lacking sometimes in youknow the mental health with,
like you know, psychotherapy orpsychiatry, is the curiosity
part.
Yet it seems like yourcuriosity has been untethered.
Madeline Weiss (13:08):
It's off the chart
NatNat (13:08):
and you've been wanting it to find out all kinds of
crevices and places and stuff.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know it'squirky.
No, not at all.
You're honoring yourself,you're honoring yourself and
you're you're feeding into whatis needed.
I want to ask you know, yougave us the privilege of being
(13:32):
the first time saying that youhelp people with their dreams,
that you put it in very simpleterms.
Madeline Weiss (13:39):
It's on my Instagram profile and I noticed
it the other day and I thought,huh, I actually put that there.
So that made it fresher in mymind.
But it's not routinely.
If somebody asks me about mybackground or what I do, I don't
routinely say that, yeah, whatdoes that look like?
(14:01):
Yeah, what does that look likeFor them?
Yeah.
So I one day said to myself andI told you how varied my
background is and my range ofcuriosity we'll call it is.
So one day I said, god, youknow, these people that I'm
(14:29):
working with are all doingreally great.
And then I said what are youdoing?
Like, you know, I could bepulling any old kind of tool out
of my toolkit is packed withall kinds of stuff like from
soup to nuts, because of allthat curiosity like brain
science and evolutionarypsychology and Advaita Vedanta
and psychodynamic psychotherapyand all this kind of stuff.
(14:52):
So it's all in there and if youwork with me, I'm sitting there
with all of that and, based onthe interaction, who knows what
I'll pull out when.
But I just thought, thoughtlike, what's happening here?
What's actually happening?
So I laid out all my cases andI like sort of sat back and did
(15:13):
like a zen thing and it came tome that there was.
There's a process that peoplego through and even though
they're all different age,ethnicity, occupation, you name
it there's this process, theyall go through.
NatNat (15:31):
I love that you're finally
allowing yourself to be seen.
Madeline Weiss (15:38):
What prompted that?
NatNat (15:42):
Because you brought out the simplicity of being
empowered, of honoring the giftthat you have rather than
doubting yourself, becauseacademia, academia always
berates that you're not goodenough, and too much confidence
can be not well received.
Madeline Weiss (16:00):
I should, I should?
You're right.
You're right about the too muchconfidence.
And when I test, like on theMyers-Briggs or tests like that,
they say I have this kind ofvision.
That could come off asarrogance.
I didn't know until about 20that I was even like, let's say,
(16:21):
smart.
I didn't, which is why Iresponded to you when you said
that, like, how does she know?
So you have a knowing, becauseI, after my father died when I
(16:44):
was 15, I was lucky that Igraduated high school.
NatNat (16:49):
Yeah.
Madeline Weiss (16:51):
So yeah, so it wasn't always.
I didn't always have thisconfidence and I didn't always
have this level of performance.
I was pretty shaky as a kid, asI recall.
NatNat (17:08):
How did you find the safety within yourself?
Madeline Weiss (17:13):
I started getting feedback.
I put my neck out there, youknow.
I went to.
I kind of clawed my way intocollege.
They rejected me the first timeand I went.
I made an appointment with the.
I went on this cruise and metthese people and I told them
(17:34):
that I had just gotten rejectedfrom a state school and they
said well, you can't let thatstand, you have to go tell them.
So I made an appointment withthe dean and I walked in and I
sat down and I started bawlingand he said all right, all right
(17:56):
, all right, because I was atransfer student.
I was taking a smattering ofcourses somewhere else without
really matriculating, and theysaid they weren't taking any
more transfer students and myhigh school transcript was not
that impressive.
But they took me and I said tomyself okay, I have to get a 4.0
(18:16):
here.
So I did, and I was in anhonors program and they said
something.
When they wrote my referenceafterwards, they said something
like we doubt that she evenknows how brilliant she is.
And that was the first time Iheard that word.
(18:39):
Talking to me?
Is that me Is?
NatNat (18:42):
that me, I know.
Yeah.
So I have this question if yourpain could speak, what would it
say?
Madeline Weiss (18:54):
Oh, you know what I can answer that my pain
would say why can't you see whatI see, or why won't you see
what I see?
That's what my pain would say.
NatNat (19:08):
And what is it seeing?
Madeline Weiss (19:18):
I see differently than a lot of people
and in fact I'm like 2%.
What is it?
2% of the general populationand 1% for women?
In the type of vision that Ihave and the type of vision that
I, have.
(19:43):
I'm not going to tell youspecifically because it's things
going on in the world and wedidn't want to go there.
I don't think, yeah, but yeah,and so that's a it's.
It's a hard place.
Okay, you know that's a, it's ahard place.
Okay, you know I can see whatother people see and how, even
how it makes sense to them.
(20:05):
But if they saw what I saw,they might feel and in fact in
this book I made a real.
I'm gonna show you a picture ofit.
I made a really big deal aboutthat for the kids.
I wanted them to know thateveryone's point of view.
(20:25):
Do you know the elephant story?
NatNat (20:28):
Tell me.
Madeline Weiss (20:29):
So the elephant story, as I start telling you,
you might know it is blind menand they bring an elephant into
the village and they tell themen to describe what an elephant
is.
But they're blind, so they canonly do it by feel.
So one of them feels the trunkand says, oh, an elephant is
(20:51):
like this, like a tree trunk.
This is really the one thing.
And then another one says no,it's not.
It's.
The one holding the ear saysit's flat, it's totally flat.
And then someone else says, oh,it's this like skinny long thing
.
And they fight like crazy witheach other because they're so
(21:12):
sure they're right and they areas far as they can quote unquote
.
See, they're all right, noone's wrong for what they can
see, but we can't see it all.
I always like to tell peoplethese numbers.
(21:32):
You ready for some numbers?
So there are six times 70million zeros.
Fathom that.
I can't fathom that.
I don't even know.
70 million zeros, bits ofinformation in the universe.
Out of those 11 million bits ofinformation get sent from our
(21:56):
senses you were talking aboutthe senses to the senses, to our
brain, every second.
And out of that, the consciousmind is aware of five bits of
information.
So every time I say that, Ithen say so.
Anybody who thinks they knowanything is sorely mistaken,
(22:18):
because none of us is playingwith the full deck.
No, and so, like by nature, bynurture, by your upbringing, by
your genetic makeup, whatever itis, we don't all see the same
thing, and there's so much tosee and we can't possibly see it
all.
So the mind, the mind doesn'twant to feel crazy.
(22:41):
So the mind makes up anarrative and it thinks it's
true and so what I believe, mynarrative is the true one and
yours is ridiculous, and that'show we are, and that's how we
(23:07):
really are in these times, right, and it doesn't appear more
threatened we feel, and there,you know, are so many different
(23:30):
kinds of environmental externalthreats right now.
That's my two cents on why Ithink it's getting worse and
worse, because,
NatNat (23:39):
yeah, it's a lot of dysregulated nervous systems,
and when a nervous system isdysregulated it's looking for
safety, so it's going to want tocreate certainty and if that
narrative or that story feelscertain, it feels safe.
So I'm going to bite on thatand I'm going to keep it as
truth and anything that comesaround that parameter.
That is a threat to take awayfrom my feeling of safety and
(24:03):
certainty.
Even though there is no suchthing as control, yet the mind
needs to have this illusion ofit thinking In a society that
you know you get chastised ofasking questions like you did at
the academic.
Can you tell me what's thedifference between a brain and
mind?
So because one's physical andone's kind of intellectual, you
(24:27):
get chastised for asking thesequestions.
Just do as you're told and justfigure it out.
Where it's like, we needcritical thinking, we need to be
able to challenge things, weneed to know why we're doing
certain things.
Yet you know a lotComing back into a home, I just
(25:19):
wrote a podcast.
Like I love how the universe isbecause I just wrote my
monologue podcast script that Ijust did, that I'm going to
publish next week, talkingexactly about this.
And you know, a lot of peoplethink healing is on the outside
and it's like, no, you got tolook at the mirror's edge and
you have to look at your ownreflection.
And sometimes you see and you'slike, no, you got to look at
the mirror's edge and you haveto look at your own reflection.
(25:40):
And sometimes you see andyou're like is that?
I don't like that?
And it's like, yeah, it is.
Look at your BS.
I was working with somebody Well, I'm I'm still working with her
For a while and I was trying toconvince her of everything you
just so beautifully said, by theway, and I was trying to
(26:01):
convince her that change is aninside job and she never quite
would go there with me.
She's kind of resistant, I wantto say maybe to authority, like
I'm an authority or something,but about two weeks ago and
(26:25):
she's working in a governmentagency, so she's really, you
know, feeling very threatenedright now, but she's piecing how
to cope together so well, likebetter than ever before she said
to me I'm feeling happy.
(26:45):
And then she said, of course, Imean, you were right all along
that it has to come from insideher, no matter what the heck is
going on out there.
And now it's really going onout there for her.
And it really was such a starksignal to her that, even though
(27:08):
that's going on out there, shemanaged to pull it off in here,
which meant that it is correctthat it's an inside job.
Madeline Weiss (27:20):
Yeah, power of choice.
We don't think you know.
If you don't start reallyfeeling your emotions, you don't
realize how much it hijacksyour behavior, because all it is
is that like.
For me, how I explain it to myclients is trauma is that space,
and that space is whereemotions come in and it feels
like a threat.
(27:40):
So you don't feel safe to be inthe space, you don't feel safe
to feel the emotions, all thearray emotions.
There's certain emotions thatare allowed and tolerable
because I've been told from theoutside, those are acceptable.
Yet those dense big emotionsreactive emotions those are
acceptable, yet those dense bigemotions, reactive emotions oh
(28:01):
no, as a child I've been tolddon't cry, don't get angry,
don't do this.
I may have been traumatized ina significant experience and I
never got to speak about it withanybody.
I never got to feel the safetyin expressing what was going on
and being seen, not justminimized, and feeling like an
inconvenience or feeling likethe perpetrator is getting all
(28:23):
the attention or whatnot thereis.
So, coming back into that space, a lot of people are looking
for a miracle cure that, oh, I'mjust going to take this and
it's going to make it allperfect, or there's this arrival
because the mind likes toarrive somewhere that I don't
got to keep predicting what'sgoing on.
Make it all perfect.
Or there's this arrival becausethe mind likes to arrive
somewhere that I don't got tokeep predicting what's going on
out there and whatnot.
Yet the real work is to changethe narrative that you think you
(28:48):
predict everything, that theunknown and uncertainty is safe
and that you can still feel joywhen you're feeling the fear.
It's not about negating thefear.
Your nervous system, a healthynervous system, needs to feel
fear.
Yet when it's activated,acknowledge it and also allow it
room for processing and thenremember how do I want to be in
(29:11):
this moment, how do I want tofeel.
This doesn't always happen.
I know some listening are goingto be like yeah, yeah, yada,
yada, nat, nat.
Nobody can really do this.
And I'm like I get it.
My friend just died in November.
I was in hospice, yeah, and youknow I held her until her last
breath, put her in the body bag,watch the cremation.
You know I.
(29:32):
Another friend died.
My car was totaled.
I didn't even total it.
Somebody drove it and got intoan accident.
I get it.
Was there a lot of emoting andcrying and frustration and anger
, yeah.
Yet I let myself feel thosethings to always remember, come
back to a state.
Come back to a state, not justbrew and think that that's my
(29:54):
identity.
You sound like you're headed fora breakthrough.
Do you know the book about?
You're a badass or something.
NatNat (30:04):
Yeah, who is it?
Madeline Weiss (30:06):
Jen Sincero yeah .
Yeah.
There's one thing she said thatstuck with me, which is that
when you're about to breakthrough something, all hell
breaks loose.
Yeah, and what you described,my God.
I'm yeah.
(30:26):
In spades.
NatNat (30:27):
Yeah, I was like today in the car dealership.
I was like I don't even want tobe in this situation, yet I'm
here and I wanted to cry and belike Natalie's not here and this
person, and it was like, okay,I feel that narrative.
I understand a bit of that, nota bit that victim mode of that
little girl that was traumatizedand wasn't seen as a young
(30:49):
child.
Yet it's like okay.
Yet we cannot reject reality.
So your emotions are valid.
The helplessness feels reallyyucky.
Yes, you didn't cause this, andthat makes it even more
difficult to be in a space thatyou didn't create because you
didn't get in the accident yet.
You will lose out on being ableto hear the solutions and pivot
(31:12):
to what is what is there foryou.
So you know, when I'm sayingall this, it sounds like oh,
like it's so much.
I've been using these tools forlike over a decade, so when I
can activate it on real time incertain places, this didn't come
overnight.
It came with a lot of warriorwork of being honest with myself
(31:37):
and feeling and understandingthe depths of my own nervous
system so that I could holdspace for other people, so that
they can unleash their curiosityand, rather than not validate
themselves.
Like you know who, whateveryou're experiencing is valid and
however you're seeing, it isvalid.
(31:58):
Just remember, though it's notthe absolute truth and that's
the most difficult thing to youknow.
Allow yourself to process andunderstand that
Madeline Weiss (32:09):
it is a truth Maybe not the whole truth and
nothing but the truth.
It's a truth.
You know, you're talking a lotabout confidence, really, and
how we get that.
And I want to tell you that Ihad believe it or not, because
(32:34):
it's hard to believe I think Ihad flesh-eating disease yeah
right, who gets that?
And I was in the hospital forseven weeks.
I had 10 trips to the OR and Iwas in occupational therapy for
six months.
I was out of work for threemonths, then I went back
(32:55):
part-time.
I mean, it was a bigyou-know-what deal, oh yeah.
And so when people talk aboutconfidence, it's not that you
know everything.
It's a feeling that I have fromthat, more than anything else,
(33:17):
I think, a feeling that,whatever it is, I'll figure it
out, like I never had anythinglike that going on in my life
before.
Nobody, I know, did either.
And people would say to me Idon't know how you're doing this
.
You need to come visit me inthe hospital, week after week
(33:39):
after week.
I don't know how you're doingthis.
And then they would say it madeyou so strong.
And then I would say, notexactly Because it didn't make
me anything, but it forced me tohave to dig inside for what is
(34:03):
inside of us all, and I had touse it.
But I wanted everybody to knowthis.
It's in there, not just meeveryone.
NatNat (34:17):
Everyone.
Madeline Weiss (34:18):
And you don't know.
And you don't know that untilyou need to use it.
But what builds confidence iswhen we see ourselves putting
one foot in front of the otherand doing what needs to be done.
And what people forget is thatevery single one of us has
already lived through everythingwe've ever been through.
NatNat (34:44):
Say that again because some listeners will be lost in
that.
Madeline Weiss (34:49):
That's why I paused, because I want that to
sink in.
I want that to sink in.
Every single one of you, everysingle one of us, has already
lived through every single thingwe've ever been through, and
(35:10):
remembering that it's confidencebuilding.
So I feel like now I can dothat.
What can I do?
So, even though I don't wishthat on anyone, in a way for me
it was that gift that I walkaround feeling like bring it on,
(35:33):
whatever it is, I'll figure itout.
It's not whatever it is, I knowhow to deal with it.
It's not that it's whatever itis, I'll figure it out, I'll
take care of it somehow.
Who knows?
NatNat (35:48):
Yeah, surrendering, that's the epitone of surrender.
Madeline Weiss (35:53):
I love how you always put everything I say into
real nice, plain talk like that.
Yeah,
NatNat (35:59):
that's what I've tried.
I've worked on refining thelanguage so that it's simple, so
that people can reallyunderstand.
And that I do the deeplistening so that when I reflect
back and that I do the deeplistening, so that when I
reflect back it's like I amlistening to you.
So it captures and itreinforces the connection that
we're all connected in.
Madeline Weiss (36:20):
You're very good at that, I feel it.
NatNat (36:26):
Thank you.
It's warrior work that I do andbuilding that confidence.
And to come back to thestrength that people keep
telling you, I think what it isthat people may be seeing is
that you have the courage to bein your vulnerability and not
shut down.
Yeah, because that was a veryvulnerable state to be in.
Madeline Weiss (36:53):
Oh my God, you can't even imagine.
NatNat (36:56):
Well, I had lesions in my brain.
I almost died.
I was in the hospital for 40days.
So I get a little bit my bodycompletely shut down yeah.
Yeah, so I'm not flesh eating.
I get some of the pain becausesome of the lesions were in my
meninges.
They were in my brainstem andin my cerebellum and in my
minges.
That's scary.
(37:18):
Yeah, it was.
I understand the helplessness.
I understand the physical pain.
I understand the learning againhow to live and try to figure
out how to communicate with yourbody and not chastise a body
that's putting you through allthis stuff and it's deep work
that goes on internally.
Madeline Weiss (37:40):
I was very tender toward my body.
I remember Nice, because theyskin grafted from my thigh to my
arm after they gouged out allthe dead and I remember looking
at it and thinking this lookslike sushi.
But I also thought it was like,and I still remember.
(38:04):
I also thought it was like alittle baby it was and I was
tending it like that Well, I hadto, because, yeah, and I was
tending it like that Well, I hadto, because, yeah, but I wasn't
.
I could see how somebody couldfeel, without even realizing it,
angry with their body forcrapping out on them like that.
(38:26):
But I don't remember feelingthat.
I remember, yeah.
NatNat (38:35):
Because you know, know, anger is protection.
So to be vulnerable and besensitive with it, anger would
be that protective emotion thatno, no, no, like I, I don't know
how to feel this vulnerabilityand that intimacy and and
trusting, trusting in theunknown, trusting in, like
people talk about they havefaith.
They have no idea what reallyfaith is.
Faith isn't getting your way.
Faith is being able to stillhave your heart open, no matter
(38:57):
where the experience is going,which is very difficult and very
challenging.
And your heart will closebecause it needs to protect,
because it's overwhelmed andit's a lot of processing.
Yet the work is to open it backup, and that's what faith is
when you know you're going toexperience pain like people
think I'm going to pray away andI won't experience pain, and
(39:19):
it's like no, that's not whatfaith is
Madeline Weiss (39:21):
.
NatNat (39:22):
Faith is despite.
I will still keep walking, andthat is warrior work, especially
when you'vewell, for seven weeks.
That's like debilitatingphysical pain that you went
through and it's like okay, Ican still feel it.
You know, yeah, viscerally,your body still kept that memory
.
It doesn't want to repeat that.
Madeline Weiss (39:44):
I can still feel what it felt like when they
brought me out of the recoveryroom and forgot about me and the
pain med wore off.
I can still feel it, yeah.
NatNat (39:57):
I still remember when they did a biopsy on my thigh
and it was raw so they didn't doany freezing because they said
they wanted a clean sample.
So they scalpeled three inchesof my thigh muscle and I still
feel it.
Madeline Weiss (40:12):
I think we just lost all your listeners.
NatNat (40:18):
So in the name of science.
Science does some wacky things,I tell you.
Yet in those experiences,there's a lot of resilience, if
you're willing to lean into it.
There's a lot of gifts in thatthat you just shared.
I am mindful of time, and so mynext question that I want to
(40:39):
ask you is I want to bring youinto a reflective question.
I want to ask you to bring thisawareness right now and go back
to your 18-year-old self, andif you have three words to tell
your 18-year-old self to carryyou to the journey of right now,
what would those three words be?
Madeline Weiss (41:04):
Can I have five?
Yeah, of course I'm just goingto non-filter it.
Yeah, what popped into my headwas you're going to not filter
it.
What popped into my head wasyou're going to do great.
That was the blur, because atthat time I was a mess, it's
(41:26):
understandable.
You're going through deep grief.
NatNat (41:30):
I was and feeling like an orphan.
Madeline Weiss (41:32):
Yeah, how'd you know's what your
NatNat (41:37):
parents did yeah, parents do, and it's a very uh,
the other side of love.
We're not really taught aboutthat and until you experience it
it's like, oh, this is an abyssthat doesn't have any grounding
, there's no body to feel yet tonavigate in.
That it's a sense of like, ooh,what is this place?
So it you know to be in thedark and trying to find your way
(42:03):
without people mentoring youand giving you guidance.
Significant warrior work.
Significant warrior work.
My next question is what wouldyour past self thank you for?
Madeline Weiss (42:24):
I know what it is.
I'm trying to figure out how toarticulate it.
It's related to what I justsaid for actually manifesting
the potential.
That's it.
I could have not, of course,but I did, yeah, and I'm
(42:48):
grateful.
NatNat (42:49):
I am too.
I am too.
What would your future self sayabout fear?
Madeline Weiss (43:01):
I'm giving you everything unfiltered here.
My future self would say it wasgreat how I had that licked
yeah.
NatNat (43:13):
And now, if curiosity had a voice, what would it say?
That licked yeah, all right.
Madeline Weiss (43:22):
And now, if curiosity had a voice, what
would it say?
Keep on enjoying me.
I appreciate you too.
NatNat (43:27):
Okay, so now I know the listeners are like okay, where
can I find this wonderful lady?
So can you let the listenersknow where they can find you and
what you have to offer and thetitles of your book, because I
know visually you showed us, yetyou didn't tell us what the
titles were.
Madeline Weiss (43:42):
Okay, so the kids book is what's your Story?
Building your Best Adventuresin School and Life.
I just did at the Malcolm XSchool here in DC.
I just did a book club with 10kids.
It was delightful.
I love them.
They're wonderful and they Imade them fill out evaluation
forms that they didn't know werecomingreat.
(44:04):
It's that five steps strategy.
I told you.
They all go through a processfive step strategy for work and
(44:24):
life, based on science andstories.
So I can make this really easy.
On my website you'll see iconsfor both of those books that
take you right to how you canget them.
There are also a bunch of otherbuttons there.
(44:46):
So there's a power breathingexercise.
It's not even two minutes.
So there's a tab that sayspower breathe and that's a 30
second mindset reset.
And next to that, I think,there's a blog tab and there are
(45:09):
hundreds of blogs on scienceand everyday matters like sleep
and food and money and all kindsof things.
And those are all the chaptersin the book the adult book, by
the way, too.
I have it segmented like that.
My favorite is Managing yourMouth, and it's not about food,
it's about when to speak andwhen not to speak.
So that's kind of fun.
That's kind of fun.
(45:31):
There's also a tab for onlinecourses and a tab for a free
introductory session.
If any of the listeners want toconnect with me and talk about
themselves in any of thesecontexts, I would love to hear
from you.
So it's Madeline Weiss dot comand the spelling is tricky.
(45:52):
Are they going to have thespelling from you?
So it's madelineweisscom andthe spelling is tricky.
Are they going to have thespelling from?
you, nana.
NatNat (45:58):
Yeah, there'll be a link in the show notes that they can
click on, Okay, yeah, well, Iwant to thank you for you know
the alchemy you've done in yourlife.
You've taken some realimpurities and you've turned
them into gold.
Yet you didn't keep that goldfor yourself.
(46:19):
You're sharing it with others.
So thank you for that.
You know, listening to thegentle nods within yourself and
going in that unknown path andsharing all that you have with
others.
It's a real delight to be inyour, you know, energy field and
your experience.
So thank you so much
Madeline Weiss (46:38):
Well ditto.
You are a gem, so thank you.
NatNat (46:43):
Thank you.
Please remember to be kind toyourself.
Madeline Weiss (46:47):
I am.
NatNat (46:51):
Hey, you made it all the way here I, you and your time.
If you found value in thisconversation, please share it
out.
If there was somebody thatpopped into your mind, take
action and share it out withthem.
It possibly may not be themthat will benefit.
It's that they know somebodythat will benefit from listening
(47:12):
to this conversation, so pleasetake action and share out the
podcast.
You can find us on social mediaon Facebook, instagram and
TikTok under Lift One Self, andif you want to inquire about the
work that I do and the servicesthat I provide to people, come
over on my website, come into adiscovery call Liftoneselfcom.
(47:37):
Until next time, pleaseremember to be kind and gentle
with yourself.
You matter.
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