February 29, 2024 • 50 mins
“Expire Erect” (Die Hard, get it?) and “Orgy Pants to Work” turn out to be fantastic fodder for the Guy Girls’ particular brand of overthinking, and we did not hold back.
Tracie had some THINGS to say about the mythology of Lilith (Maze’s mom), which led to some questions about who (and how) Lilith even is, and whether or not Lucifer could have been Eve’s “first time.” To answer those questions, we actually got a copy of the Bible off the shelf to check the chronology of what happened in and after the garden of Eden.
Also in this episode, we dig into what’s going on with the writers’ manipulation of our feelings by making the bad guy super reprehensible. We unpack the use of female archetypes of maiden, mother, crone, whore, and witch (and why Eve can’t be maternal because Chloe’s got the lock on that one), which leads to Emily reassuring her sister, “oh honey, you can still be a whore if you want to.
There’s also some speculation as to whether or not “punchable face” is an acting choice and the stamina-inducing powers of acai.
If you only ever listen to one episode of LIghtbringers, this should be the one.
Originally published as a YouTube show with different theme music.
Our theme song is "Feral Angel Waltz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
To learn more about Tracie and Emily and our other projects, to support us, and join the Guy Girls' family, visit us on Patreon.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Tracy here.
This is embarrassing.
In this episode that you'reabout to listen to, I go off on
a tangent about Eve's name and Igot it wrong.
Eve's name, the biblical Eve,was Chava, and it says in the
(00:20):
text she's called that becauseshe's the mother of all living,
which would be Chaya, and thetwo words must be related.
But it wasn't Chaya, so myapologies for leading you astray
.
However, my story about themisplaced vowel on the pronoun
(00:42):
remains.
Is it why she's called Eve inEnglish?
Maybe it's my headcanon as towhy.
Anyway, I hope you'll forgiveme.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Enjoy this episode, tracy and Emily are smart,
lovable sisters who really loveLucifer for the plot yeah, the
plot which they overthink.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Hey there, I'm here with my sister, emily Guy-Burken
she does not use a hyphen and Iam here with my sister, tracy
Guy-Dekker she does use a hyphen, I do, it's true and together
this is Lightbringers, where weilluminate the deeper meaning of
the crime-solving devil TV show.
And, yeah, we are overthinkingit so much.
(01:32):
So today we're gonna talk about405 and 406, expire erect and
orgy pants to work, and weactually had planned to record
this, like three weeks ago, twoweeks ago.
So we're gonna talk about 405and 406, two weeks ago, two
weeks ago, whatever, some timeago, and now we're recording.
(01:53):
So we both had to re-watch orre-watch so that we could record
, which is an interestingphenomenon.
Hasn't happened to us before.
It's like when I do the laundryand then forget to put it in a
dryer so I gotta wash it again,is it mildly?
Yeah, yeah, that's a yuckymetaphor, thank you for that,
but it's, you know, it'srelatable.
(02:14):
What's interesting about thesetwo episodes?
I'm thinking it's now that I'vere-watched and re-watched,
especially expire erect, like ithas like, especially the way it
starts.
It's this sort of absurdist andlike funny, but sort of like
(02:35):
funny, weird and a little bitfunny, ha ha.
But actually there's somereally deep, dark contemplation
happening in these two episodeswhich I think is kind of
interesting.
So when it comes to expire,erect, I think that you know
(02:56):
getting into that deeper stuff.
At the end, when Chloe talks toMenadil cause she was like I
kind of want to just make surethat Eve is okay, that she's not
going to be trying to destroythe world or she's not secretly
evil or anything, because, likeshe saw that Eve really does
(03:17):
appear to be good for Lucifer,and the fact that the response
that Eve has when Chloe says toher like have you seen a scary
base?
Does it scare you?
And she's like why would it?
And like that is the mostaccepting possible response.
And then when Eve says, andit's here and in the next
(03:40):
episode where she's like no oneever asked me what I wanted
until him except for him, andrecognizing the power of that,
it's completely understandablewhy Eve would pine for him and
slip back into her old bones.
Look at him.
(04:01):
Well, yeah, that too.
Yeah, if you were my ex, therewould definitely be some pining.
Anyway, sorry I interrupted you,but it's understandable why she
would spend millennia and tothe point of where she realized,
(04:22):
like you know what.
This is unsustainable for me.
To stay in heaven cause this isso boring, like Adam doesn't
love me and never will, and likeall he wants to do is sit and
watch ESPN and I just I want todo stuff and experience stuff.
So the fact that she, you know,like was like all right, I'm
gonna see if I can get out ofheaven and like get back into my
old bones, which is kind offreaking cool.
(04:45):
So, you know, it's interestingthat you bring up that final
conversation with Amenadiel,because one of the things that I
noticed in my re-re-watch wasthat earlier in the episode,
amenadiel was sort of havingthat's the inverse thought about
Eve and Lucifer, that she's notgood for him because she's
(05:07):
gonna erase the growth that he'shad, and so and I actually
think DB Woodside kind of playedthat in that final conversation
with Chloe, because it almostfelt like he was holding
something back yes, when she waslike he didn't say I hope so.
(05:28):
When she said something like heseems good, she seems good for
him, eve seems good for Lucifer,and he was like I hope you're
right, yeah yeah.
Amenadiel doesn't think that Eveis good for Lucifer, and so I
think that that was so.
It was interesting to have thatconversation happen with Chloe
and Amenadiel specifically notLinda, right, like not Maze, but
(05:54):
Amenadiel, who had expressedconcerns about this relationship
and what it might mean forLucifer.
Also, as an aside, overthinkingit, since in our last episode I
went into my long rabbit holeabout Eve's name, and then
there's that back and forthwhere DB Woodside as Amenadiel
keeps going Eve, you know, andfinally Ellis is Lucifer.
(06:17):
It's like I know her name, yeah, and I'm like actually there I
am sitting in my living roomoverthinking it.
Anyway, that just like tickledme after our last conversation.
Yes, very much so.
Yeah, I had that thought aswell because of what you had
gone into with that with hername.
(06:38):
Yeah, with her name.
The thing that I think isinteresting is the next episode
does seem to indicate that Eveis bad for him, but I'm not sure
how I feel about that Now, likethe, and in the next episode,
(06:58):
what we have happened is sheencourages him to like accept
his devil nature and punish thehuman trafficker piece of crap
who they write to be socompletely lacking in any
sympathy.
He's zero redeeming.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Anything no redeeming .
Speaker 3 (07:16):
And they had to do that so that we, so that they
don't lose us, yes, they don'tlose our sympathy for the devil.
Yes, see what I did there.
They had to write that guywhose name is escaping me,
julian McCaffrey, thank you.
They had to write Julian aslike rotten as possible and
smarmy and like arrogant andentitled, so that they don't
(07:40):
lose our sympathy when theyleave us, knowing that Lucifer
is about to torture him.
Yes, yeah, and I mean it wasbad, like I watching it not the
second rewatch, but the first wewatched two weeks ago when we
thought we were gonna connect Ihad forgotten some of the
details and so when they get tothe ship and then I see the
women, like the you knowpowering women, coming off the
(08:03):
ship and I was like it's people,you know, like it was sort of
green or something and and likeit, like it, really like it's.
Oh, there's a visceral like, oh, really rough, he didn't just
kill poor boring Gary.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
It's so.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
So I actually I want to come back to something you
said about that.
The second episode suggeststhat Eve is bad for him, which I
think it's really interesting,because I actually think the
writers are trying toproblematize for us, like by
spending all this time andhaving Chloe say do you like who
you are, do you like whatyou're doing?
And like this question of if Iwant to be a better person, but
(08:45):
I've never been that person.
Is it somehow disingenuous?
Is it even real?
Is the way that Lucifer says itwhich we're going to spend?
We spent a lot of time in this,all six seasons, thinking about
what is real, which I think isinteresting.
Yeah, I actually think thatthere is some.
There is at least someambivalence on the part of our
(09:07):
writers that they want us tofeel about Lucifer.
I mean because Eva's right, itwas the bad man's fault that
Joan died, it was not Lucifer's.
And also, if Lucifer had made adifferent choice earlier in the
episode, joan wouldn't be dead,right, and so there's definitely
(09:30):
a push and pull on whether ornot Eva's version of who Lucifer
is is bad.
Well, and part of what I'mreacting to, also in Orgy Pants
to Work, is Linda says to himlike you're bifurcating yourself
(09:52):
, you're trying to be two thingsat once and I kind of I
recognize what they're doing inthe episode with Lucifer and he
clearly cannot do both things atonce.
All in, like that.
But I reject the idea that youcan't be both of those things
Agreed.
(10:12):
And they talk about it a littlebit, they get into it just a
titsy little bit when Luciferand Ella are interviewing people
at the nudist colony beforeChloe joins them.
Annie is the name of the likesweet old work lady who is
talking like new Gary Well andsaying like oh, he just he found
his place and his people hereand like you know, when he was
(10:33):
getting involved in all thecommunity stuff and he was going
to help us with the chest cluband the chest club, yeah, yeah.
And he was going to help us allwith our taxes and he's like oh
so, he was a dedicatedaccountant and a nudist.
And she's like we come from allwalks of life, you know, we've
got teachers, judges, you know,but, and so there's a little bit
of like yeah, it is possible tohave a outside the norm
(10:56):
lifestyle and a perfectly withinthe norm job, and that that's
something like and you can goall in on both of them, like he,
like poor Gary had gone all in,like he found the nudist colony
, he was just like I finallyfeel comfortable, and he joined
the chest club and the book cluband made friends with their
(11:18):
taxes.
Yeah, so that that's me like.
Not that I like this is a greatepisode and it's not that I wish
that they had done anythingdifferent, but I feel like the
message of the episode is likeno, you can't have it all.
And it's like well, I kind ofreject that in the same way,
like when I first startedworking with children, when I
(11:43):
worked at the boys and girlsclub when I was out of college,
and there would be things that Idid on the weekend where I'm
like I can't believe they let merun children and like it just
just being a normal young adultand like I don't want people to
feel like you can't containmultitudes.
You know you can't be a like inthe same way that we first see
(12:10):
Eve in that episode and she'slike hi, great, no hostess rules
.
You know she can be like she'staking care of her guests while
being a dominatrix, right, well,say, nobody passes out unless
they want to.
I mean, like you can be, it's aboth end, and so that, to me,
(12:33):
is where I struggle with thisepisode, because it's saying
that Lucifer can't do this andlike I don't see why he can't.
Yeah, I think if there were likesome differences, like if he
just made some concessions inboth parts of his life, you know
, were actual trousers to work,were actual trousers to work and
(12:53):
had had, like you know,standing dates, rather than,
like we're spending every daytogether, all the time Briefly
off.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because heeven says to me this is a school
night party.
Like you should come back onthe weekends.
Yeah, you know, it'sinteresting too, because I do
think that in some ways thewriters acknowledge that when
(13:14):
Chloe realizes he's asleep andshe's like I want you to be
happy, but I hate the way you'rehappy, I think there is sort of
an acknowledgement of like it'snot that he can't have that
lifestyle, it's that she'suncomfortable with it.
She even recognizes it's kindof not her place, although in
some ways it's because she's,she's jealous, which she also
(13:35):
admits because she loves him.
But yeah, it's interesting andcomplicated.
Yeah, I appreciate them takingthis on.
I, just when Linda is so oftenthe like, the voice of reason, I
wish there had just been likeanother sentence in there about
like you're bifurcating yourlife right now.
(13:57):
Like you say you're having itall, but I, you know it doesn't
look like it's not saying it'snot possible, but it's not
happening.
You know, like that's what Iwish there had been something in
there, just just because, likeso often, people will choose the
normal path, I think so.
(14:18):
Here's the thing.
What I think was missingespecially from this show, right
, that that, and Eve keepsmaking the point about nobody
asked what I want, right, likepart of what is unsustainable
about Lucifer's having it all isthat he is trying to make both
of those women happy with hisbehavior, as opposed to like
(14:46):
what does he want, and that'swhy he spends all that time,
like why she says you just spentthe past several minutes
sending apology gifts to both ofthem.
I feel like that's actually whatis unsustainable that he's
trying to be 100% the man thatChloe wants and 100% the man
(15:06):
that Eve wants, but those twomen are not the same man, and so
that's really what'sunsustainable.
So it's not that you can't haveit all, or even that you can't,
like have things that you know,two things that actually don't
touch except in you.
They don't touch in time, butthey can't touch in time, and
(15:27):
that's where, like, I don't know, like I'm not exactly sure how
I would write it differently,but I do think that that really
is what.
Well, and that problem, andwhich is interesting from this
show, which is all about desire,yes, well in particular, since
that's what he does is.
He tries to fulfill the desiresof the people around him so that
(15:49):
that actually very much fits,rather than his own.
Rather than his own desires,yeah, yeah, which you know he.
The only time he actuallyspeaks to his own desires at
that point is when he says hewants to be a better man.
Work makes him want to be abetter man, which work is the
euphemism for Chloe?
I, I understood.
(16:10):
Yeah, yeah, so that it's.
It's a there's, there's layers,there's layers here.
That's why we do this.
Also, a bunch of dick jokes.
So, oh, so many dick jokes.
Can I just say did you noticeyellow squash in the fruit bowl?
(16:32):
Well, they thought a bananawould be just too obvious Banana
joke A couple episodes ago.
Yes, yeah, so can.
Can I just point out, did?
Did you notice that?
Expire erect is their theirversion of diehard?
No, expire, die, correct, hard.
(16:55):
Oh, and it is also a kidnappingsituation.
Yeah, huh, that's not one of my.
It's not.
It's another Capaganda movie.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
I have seen it once.
It's not one of mine.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah, I've seen it more than you have.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Oh, have you.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah, I've only seen it once and I just yeah, so, but
yeah, that to me seemed likesomeone was just like oh, this
is going to be hilarious.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
So I do want to talk a little bit about some of the
stuff that happened in Expire Tostart the car show stuff.
So I married to an automotiveengineer who was a died in the
wool car geek.
His first car was a vintageVolkswagen Beetle that he fixed
up himself.
My first car was a VolkswagenBeetle which I hired someone to
(17:49):
fix up and he was two hours lateto pick up his like homecoming
date in the Beetle because hewas trying to get it running and
she was not impressed and Istill didn't pass like state
inspection requirements.
In any case, I know that scene alittle bit better than most and
(18:13):
that felt about right.
The thing that I will tell youthat is absolutely correct was
Kev, the guy who was theirsuspect, who got tired, Right.
This is the best pun.
It was a good pun, that's thebest.
I think that might have killedhim, though I know like
(18:33):
considering how hard it hit him,but sorry, but Kev, he's like
you should check out the scaryguy Like.
I don't know his name.
I can't tell you what he lookedlike.
I was a 1992, geo Metro in hiscolor, whatever?
Green.
And I was like that is spot on.
My husband does not know thenames of our neighbors, but he
(18:56):
can tell you exactly what theyeach drive.
Yeah, yeah, so yeah, that waswell done, writers.
So I appreciated that I also.
I had this realization this timearound.
So we're in this portion of theshow where the first person
they interview turns out to bethe murderer, although that does
(19:19):
not happen in Orgy Pants Otherthings happen in Orgy Pants.
So I was thinking like what theheck was Marco doing?
Like waiting around so he couldbe interviewed, and then like
that doesn't make any sense.
And then realizing, oh wait, no, he wants to eventually be on
their radar so that they canhelp him find Leona.
I'm like, oh, okay, all right,I'll give that, because it was
(19:43):
just like Leona at some pointsays he always was tougher than
he was smart.
I'm like yeah, but then like,okay, well, yeah, no, if you
wouldn't have been on theirradar and that made it more
likely that blah, blah, blah,blah.
But how long did it take him toset up that bomb?
It couldn't have taken him thatlong, because how do you know
where Detective Decker would be.
(20:04):
Yeah, that's a good point,although Lucifer was with her at
the crime scene.
Although he wasn't with her atthe crime scene, where he met
her, where Marco met her,because that was no.
That was at the very beginning,when they were like, oh right,
because she calls him, becauseshe needs the car.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Right, you're right you're right.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
You're right.
Yeah, why did he?
Why was it at Luc's?
So the only thing I could thinkof is that he followed her
there, and it doesn't like hehad everything all set up.
All he had to do was like popin a couple things.
Yeah, because it was in a box.
Yeah, we just had to drop thebox.
Yeah, so it was my theory.
So, like he got there aboutthat same time that Chloe did
(20:47):
and just boop, boop, boop, boop,boop, boop.
All right now, yeah, that works, especially like it wasn't like
hidden, really.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, it was just up on the landing.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
It was just up on the landing.
Yeah, a little unobtrusive, nothidden.
So the other thing I was likewhat if he had eaten the
Southwest sandwich withoutseeing Chloe about it In that
one?
Why is Dan calling the shots?
Where's the lieutenant?
(21:17):
I mean they must have replacedPierce and it wouldn't have been
with Dan.
He's still kind of demoted.
I mean he's.
Yeah, it's economy ofcharacters, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I also like I struggled to believe that Dan
would let Leona in to talk toMarco.
I think because Chloe and Ellawere in there, he might have
accepted it.
Yeah Well, and after theconversation of the ends, just
by the beans things with thebabies.
(21:56):
Well, and specifically like whenhe said like people I care
about and you know what I mean,like.
So I think they did set us upthat he maybe wasn't in his most
strategic thinking, becausewe're talking about Chloe, it's
more the like but why is hecalling the shots when the SWAT
team go like what are you doing?
Excuse me, yeah, what are youdoing?
(22:17):
Yeah, so I don't know why hewould have been calling the
shots at all.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
I feel like someone in the chain of command would
have been like absolutely not,we're not doing that.
Yeah, we're at least put her inprotective gear, protective
gear something.
Yeah, yeah, so yeah.
So we're focusing a lot on orgypants, but I'm going to come
back to it again.
So at the beginning we realizedthere's been like a month or
(22:45):
more between the last one andthe last episode.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
I go out of town for a few months and you 50 shades
of betray me Right.
Well, she says a few minutesand he's like been gone for
months.
Yeah, yeah, months, becausethen she's surprised that Linda.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Because Linda it's.
Yeah, it's probably at leastthree or four months for Linda
to have grown.
Yeah, yeah, so, okay.
So there's a small littlesubplot about May's kind of
grappling with her maternalwounds, her early maternal
wounds.
Right, you know it's coming in.
(23:22):
Lillith is the mother of thedemons, the lilym, of whom there
are thousands, they are legion.
Who's their father?
I think it's like aparthenogenesis.
(23:44):
It's clear from the Jewishapocrypha.
Lucifer is their father.
I'm not okay with that.
I know.
Maybe all except May's, allexcept May's, may's was the
first and just because she doeslook exactly like Lillith, which
(24:06):
we'll know later, she does, andso I think she was just like
parthenogenesis.
I think our raiders don't wantto deal with the fact that he
has a millennial long sexualrelationship with his kid.
It's not, though, because he'sso weirded out by his mom, I
(24:26):
know, but, like our raiders,they just don't answer.
They never tell us who she justcreates her own children.
That's what Lillith did.
That is my head cannon and youcannot take it away from me.
Okay, but if we're overthinkingthis and I am the resident like
(24:49):
biblical scholar such as I am,well, what was the okay, since
they also bring it up?
The Lillith and Adam?
What is the background on that?
Because the first time I willtell you, the first time I ever
heard of Lillith, was in when Iread the Lion, the Witch and the
Word Road, and Mr Beaverexplains to the pevency children
(25:13):
, like you know, aren't allhuman, sons of Adam and
daughters of Eve.
He's like no, adam had a firstwife, lillith.
You know her children are not.
And I was just like what is hemaking up?
I've never heard this before.
So if you look at Genesis, thereare two creation stories that
get kind of like shoved together.
(25:34):
The first one says in the KingJames male and female, created
he them.
God created humans, a boy and agirl.
The boy was Adam, the girl wasLillith, so they were created as
equal.
And then later it says thething about the rib that God
(26:00):
made Adam a.
Help me out of Adam's ribbecause it is not good, because
God saw that it was not good forAdam to be alone.
So it's really.
I mean, if you kind of likepeel back the layers, it appears
to be two separate stories thatgot shoved together into the
same book.
To explain the discrepancythere's, this whole story got
spun off about that firstequally created female Lillith
(26:26):
and the story that got createdbecause they were like well,
what happened to her right,where did the name Lillith come
from?
That I don't know.
That I don't know.
But I will do research becauseshe comes up again.
So I'll do research, stay tuned, folks.
But what I do know is theancient rabbis and sages were
like well, what happened?
And they spun off this wholestory where, because they were
(26:48):
created as equal, adam was likelie down, i'mma get on top of
you.
And she was like no, I won't beon top of you.
And he was like bye, andbecause she wouldn't submit, I
mean, they were still talkingabout, like, basically, either
missionary or woman astride.
They were talking about sex,but because she wanted to be on
(27:09):
top, like she got banished andshe was like y'all, y'all, I'm
out.
So she wanted to make sure thather own pleasure was important.
Adam freaked out and she left.
She left the garden, she wentand married the devil, okay, and
(27:33):
what were the things that Evewas talking about in this
episode?
About, like the?
Adam would be like, oh, lilith,she something conquered the
beasts or something.
Oh well, this is whole story.
Well, because she goes off andshe becomes the consort to the
devil.
She has, she has, with wholemythology around her, okay, so
(27:54):
of power, but I don't, I don'tknow, like those specific things
didn't ring any bells for her.
Okay, okay.
Now the other question I havefor you, then, is the way that
it's written in this show isthat Eve didn't understand sex
(28:14):
until Lucifer tempted her.
Is the way that they've writtenit?
I think it's more that shedidn't understand pleasure,
pleasure her own, okay, I mean,which is in line with the way
that the rabbis understood theargument between Lilith and Adam
(28:36):
.
But Adam wanted to be on top.
Yeah, well, because the no, evedoes say it's on.
When Eve was made, she was like, yeah, okay, okay, I lie down.
The thing is that the well,okay, I was.
Just because Eve says you neverforget your first, but I guess
it doesn't still mean first time, it might just mean first
(28:57):
orgasm or first love, or first,you know, yeah, I just that
wasn't an earlier episode, thatwasn't in this.
Oh no, that was when she wastalking to the jewelry guy, the
shear.
Yeah, yeah, no, it's, it wasn'tin this.
One of these episodes I wasjust like thinking about that.
Okay, all right, and it's.
I mean, it's on, it's possible.
It is a possible readingbecause the so the story they're
(29:20):
.
They're living in the garden.
God says you can eat of anytree except for that one in the
center of the garden, and thatwas the tree of the knowledge of
good and evil.
And after that they realizedthey were naked and put on the
figures Exactly, exactly.
After that they realized theywere naked and they hide, yeah,
because they were ashamed oftheir nakedness, uh-huh.
(29:41):
Which they were not.
Yeah, they were not eating theapple.
So one could potentially readthat there was, that there was
not in fact sexual intimacybetween the two of them prior to
.
I would have to look it up, butmy recollection of the Genesis
(30:02):
story is that Adam doesn't knowhis wife until after they are
exiled.
And then became an ablerconceived.
Yeah, yeah, that's myrecollection.
Okay, I would, I so?
So the knowledge of the tree ofknowledge was really the
knowledge of body dysmorphia.
(30:23):
It's specifically the knowledgeof good and evil.
Yeah, and I, I know, I know,and that's that's where a lot of
like really regressive bullshitcomes from about how, like, sex
is sinful, because that's what,yeah, adam and Eve were ashamed
of.
Yeah, yeah, it's.
(30:44):
I think it's complicated.
I think you could read it inmany ways.
I just pulled down the text.
This is the JPS translation.
So when, after?
So, eve is named because shewas the mother of all living,
but that was before, like thathappens at 320.
But then that's before they'vebeen cast out.
(31:04):
And so, and at and at 322,genesis 322, adonai says now the
man that is Adam has becomelike one of us, knowing good and
bad.
What if he should stretch outhis hand and take also from the
tree of life and live forever?
Okay, so Adonai banished himfrom the Garden of Eden to till
the soil from which he was taken, drove the man out, stationed
(31:25):
east of Eden, the cherubim withthe fiery sword to guard the way
.
4-1, genesis 4-1.
Now the man knew his wife, eve,and she conceived in Borkane.
So I don't believe that weactually see.
I mean, like the text, thereare lots of holes in the text.
Yeah, that's why we have Midrashthere are a lot of holes you
(31:46):
could drive a semi through.
That's why we have Midrash, butthey did not.
I do not believe that they had.
The text does not say that theyhad sex until until they've
been banished.
Yeah, and that's you know whatto.
I guess I think this is anexpir erect also.
Yeah, it is when Amenadiel saysto its Eve are you going to
(32:08):
hurt Lucifer, have you hurt him?
And she's like, only if he asks.
Nicely, and she's like, andAmenadiel points out like he
killed your son.
And what's interesting is,until that moment, the like the
show is not presenting her asthe mother of Canaan Abel, Like
they're very much presenting heras the like first pre-Garden,
(32:32):
yeah, the guard version of Eve,and her explanation seems
interesting and also very cold.
Like she calls Abel her sweetchild, Like you know, and that
Charlotte Richard reminded herof Abel and that Can only got
(32:53):
what was coming to him.
And even though she refers toAbel as her sweet kid you know,
my sweet Abel, there's nothingvery maternal there for either
of them.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
No.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Well, that doesn't fit with the party girl.
No, they want the, the book thatShell wants her to be.
Yeah, yeah, and you know that's.
It's also, you know, fair.
She didn't have to be maternal.
It's interesting because that'snot how another show that was
more committed to certainviewpoints would have.
(33:32):
If I guess what?
I?
I spend a lot of time watchingYouTube shows and listening to
podcasts and stuff like thatabout fundamentalists,
fundamentalist Christianity, andif they were in charge of the
show which obviously they wouldnever be, but they it would be
(33:55):
very important to them to showher as, like you know, endlessly
maternal.
And so and I just I find thatinteresting because, like, we
just don't think of her as beingmother at all.
Well, it wouldn't work for the,the role that this character
plays in this mechanism wouldn'twork.
(34:17):
She needs to be the foil toChloe.
Chloe is straight-list, chloeis maternal.
She even says I go to PTAmeetings, you go to orgies.
Yeah, that's true.
Chloe is the mother.
In this love triangle, eve isthe whore.
Right, if we have the maidenmother, crone, and then there's
(34:42):
the whore and the witch, eve isthe whore in this little thing.
Chloe's the mother.
That's even her attitude towardLucifer.
Like, I want you to be happy.
Eve is good for him.
It's still a caretaking.
I mean, that's what Menadilsays to her.
Like, after all you've beenthrough, you're most worried
(35:05):
about the best interests of thepeople you care about.
I mean, if that isn't ourarchetypal mother characteristic
, I don't know what is.
Yeah, there's something alsovery young about Eve, yep, which
is why I say she's the whoreand not the witch.
Yes, like the witch is like me,like through the menopausal,
(35:27):
perimenopausal, postmenopausalage, no longer childbearing.
But, honey, you could be awhore if you want to be.
Thanks, you're a witchy whore,yes, but specifically, my
sexuality is only like someoneat my stage of life, like past
(35:48):
childbearing age, my sexualityis only for pleasure, which is
because I cannot procreate,because I'm too old for that
shit.
But I'm not a crone yet.
Eve, the way that in Barlaviplays her and the way that our
writers write her is not at thatphase.
She's not even.
(36:08):
She's not between mother andcrone, she's between maiden and
mother.
Even though officially she's amother, she's that sort of in
between space between maiden andmother, and so that and that
space is a whore, which is partof why she has I mean, not has
to she lives into it.
They write into her that all ofthat.
(36:31):
You know she's up for anything,including you know she
expresses sexual appreciation ofmaize.
Repeatedly.
She kisses Ella to calm herdown, like, so it's not even
just the heterosexual sex, whichis all the more so for that.
(36:55):
Yeah, so a version of role whodoes not allow her sexuality to
be only controlled byprocreation?
Yeah, yeah, and it actually itfits.
I mean, it fits withconsidering, like, the way that
they've written her is like Iwas literally made from someone
else.
For that person, I'm a subsetof another human being and you
(37:15):
told me I could be more thanthat, and so I'm being all the
more than that I could be, whichalso feels very young, like
it's the.
It's the when someone breaksout of the straight laced rules
of their childhood and kind ofgoing the wild out.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Yeah, but it also my first watch through.
I got frustrated because Ireally like the character of Eve
and, like I've mentioned before, inbar Lavi does an amazing job
with a thankless role in thatshe makes her likeable.
Like you really are rooting forher, even though Even when
she's encouraging Lucifer totorture someone yes and so like
(37:58):
I'll give it to her.
Yeah, she's got a point here.
I mean they did write that guyinto it.
Oh, my goodness.
So also.
I mentioned this when weweren't able to record last time
.
But like, that guy has apunchable face, like Martin
Shkreli, shkreli, yeah, and so,like Martin Shkreli, I don't
think his punchable face evercomes off Like I think.
(38:19):
That's just, I think his facewould have looked punchable when
he was six.
I don't know.
I mean the entitlement Well,that's what I think.
The entitlement's been theresince birth.
The farmabrow he was afarmabrow.
Yes, he was the one who madeIncrease the crisis of insulin I
think or something yeah, it wasa diabetes.
Yeah, just for profit, justcause he could, yeah.
(38:43):
So, anyway, I looked up thisactor.
I was just like how, like youknow, did they cast someone who
just has a punchable face, or isthat something that you can act
your way into?
Some of it is the way he looks.
So I looked up this actor andhe's not been a whole bunch of
stuff, but I found a trailer foran independent movie he was in
(39:05):
and he's acting that punchableface, like he was playing a
sympathetic character in themovie.
I saw the trailer for and I'mjust like, holy cow, like, and I
kept having to remind myself Iwas the same guy, cause I'm like
it doesn't look like I'm likehim.
It's that, it's the yeah.
It's the smoke, it's the smokeso I got sidetracked cause of
the punchable face.
I was talking about witches andwhores.
(39:29):
Yeah, oh, oh, oh, okay, okay.
I remember getting frustratedthe first time through cause I
liked Eve and when she's, likeyou know, just sitting waiting
for Lucifer and Maze, it's likecome on, let's get out of here.
You know it's cause you don'thave a life.
You know you need a life Endswhen she gets.
(39:51):
When they get back in, they'veclearly had a wonderful time
because they have a giant teddybear and a chainsaw and a sash
and they're laughing and they'relaughing, but Lucifer still
isn't home and I can rememberfeeling that way as a teenager
whereas, like you know what, I'mgoing to go off and do my own
thing and isn't he going to bemad, miss me, and like nope,
(40:16):
still doesn't, still isn't there, and that really bothered me
that she wasn't able to get pastthat.
But it actually really fitswith how she's written and that
she's saying, like you know, shewas created to be something for
someone and so even when shebreaks out to be herself, she's
(40:36):
still going to kind of latchonto that role because it's the
only one she's known.
So but yeah, that's like she'sdown through that ball in the
swimming pool, like I'm sureI'll be back any minute, just
like oh honey, no, don't do that.
Go have fun with Maze, gocreate a life for yourself.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
I do wonder, like the gifts that he got, the printer
for Chloe.
I mean maybe, yeah, maybe ifshe'd been complaining about the
precinct printer, I guess Idon't.
I mean, it made for ainteresting moment when Eve got
(41:22):
it and was like oh, this guy andlike plugged it in, but yeah,
no, it didn't work for me either.
Same thing with the sex doll,it's just like, but that at
least I think Eve wouldappreciate that I don't know,
honestly, it made more sensethan a printer.
True, very true, yeah, yeah.
Well, we have been talking fora while.
(41:45):
So that thought, and then let'smove on to fluff Meal and a
menadil.
So how did that end?
That's the thing I actually.
Last time, when we planned it,I was just like wait a minute,
how did that end?
Did I forget how it ended?
And it's because it doesn't end.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
He tells her that he is, and then it cuts away.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
And the next time we see him.
He's showing up at Chloe'shouse.
Yeah, no, no, he doesn't showup at Chloe's house.
That's in the first.
That's an expirer act.
Remmials is in orgy pants.
Oh, okay, and so we just don'tsee a solution.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Don't see them again.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
So maybe it'll be in devil is, devil is as devil does
.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
And it is yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
There's, I know, the remmials like a two or three
store three episode arc.
So, yeah, it's interestingseeing another Celestial because
we see so few of them.
And yeah, seeing that she's theyounger hero worshiper that
Azrael is to Issafer is kind ofcool.
(42:53):
You know, what's interestingtoo is that.
So she's got a scar on it onone cheek and in one of our
recent episodes a many deal sayswe were born fully formed
adults, like there's never beenan angel baby before which they
(43:15):
needed for the moment, so thatyou know Linda could have her
freaked out and whatever.
But I don't.
I feel with other things thatthey've said like, didn't they
even like when we met Uriel,didn't the goddess say something
like remember when you all werekids, you know like, and he was
(43:36):
always chasing after you, likeit.
Just, I think it's a young time.
She might have said maybe Idon't know, I'd have to go back
and look at it, but I was leftwith the impression that they
did have childhoods of a sortand anyway, and that sort of
like hero worship about your bigbrother or older I mean older
(43:58):
brother, big brother, doesn'tmake sense.
If you were born, I mean Idon't know.
But anyway, the other thing,like the scar, which I guess the
actress just has a scar, butlike it bothered me a little bit
because they're celestials,they make it clear that she's a
huntress, so but she shouldn't,she should heal, unless it was
(44:19):
another angel, that anothercelestial, that was a celestial
stag can can, because it's yeah,I guess it's a silver city stag
.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yeah, yeah, all right , all right, all right.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
All right, you got your overthinking problems, I
got your overthinking solutionsMental furniture rearranging.
Celestial stags can injure.
Celestial stags can injurecelestial angels.
Angels, yes.
I wonder what it, what it doesto the human souls.
I mean, do they?
(44:56):
Do they not have?
They don't have any.
They don't have a corporealbody Like Azrael's blade.
Yeah yeah, oh yeah.
So I think you're not allowedto go to the woods outside of
the silver city because thecelestial stags can destroy you.
So, all right, there you go,fluff, you got some fluff, fluff
.
I just I want to just anappreciation post for both Tom
(45:24):
Ellis and Amy Garcia's asses.
I second Damn Also her hair,because I have pretty long hair
and I know her like I think thatmust have been some hair
extensions because I don't thinkit cover her boobs completely,
(45:48):
so and she's got long hair.
But I like I don't think she'sgot hair halfway down her torso,
long hair.
So I want to.
Oh, I want to talk about whenthey're.
(46:09):
When he is sleeping in the carand she wakes him up, he says
that's me the goat.
Yes, but remember, he doesn'tknow where the goat thing came
from.
He claims, right, he hates thegoat thing.
I was thinking maybe it's not adevil thing, maybe it's an orgy
thing.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Worse.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
And like it was adorable.
But also like what?
Like when he snores and thenhe's sort of like yeah, I refuse
to believe anyone thatattractive, is that gross.
Sleeping, like the snoring wasone thing.
Actually, my spouse was in theroom when that happened and goes
what is he doing with his mouth?
(47:06):
Yeah, yeah, oh, one other pieceof fluff.
The first time around watchingthis, we were talking about,
like I think it was sometimeduring season five and you know,
like before Lucifer and Chloeactually get together, we're
(47:28):
like how is this going to work?
Because she is a human womanand a human woman cannot handle
10 times a day and a big Benstrikes 10.
He's big Ben.
How is that going to work?
I mean, even with his abilityto draw out her desire, there is
(47:51):
such a thing as chafing.
So I don't know.
I don't know.
I have wondered about that,because that's 10 times a day,
it's every two and a half hoursand that's if you don't sleep,
(48:14):
that's every hour and a half.
You get out eight hours a night.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
How, what?
Speaker 3 (48:25):
That's why he's never been tied down to just one
person.
Yeah yeah, that kind of needrequires an open relationship.
Yeah Well, and the fact that hesays to Eve give a devil a
break at the very beginning,just like, let a devil recharge.
Yeah, what have you been doing,eve?
(48:49):
And like, is it a saibaris?
I got nothing.
I got nothing, nothing.
(49:09):
I'm glad that I can end on astrong note.
So, see you next week.
See you next week.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Thanks Netflix, nor WB.
(49:56):
If you liked this episode,subscribe to keep overthinking
with them and visit the shownotes for other ways to connect.
Tracy here.
This is embarrassing.
In this episode that you'reabout to listen to, I go off on
a tangent about Eve's name and Igot it wrong.
Eve's name, the biblical Eve,was Chava, and it says in the
(00:20):
text she's called that becauseshe's the mother of all living,
which would be Chaya, and thetwo words must be related.
But it wasn't Chaya, so myapologies for leading you astray
.
However, my story about themisplaced vowel on the pronoun
(00:42):
remains.
Is it why she's called Eve inEnglish?
Maybe it's my headcanon as towhy.
Anyway, I hope you'll forgiveme.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Enjoy this episode, tracy and Emily are smart,
lovable sisters who really loveLucifer for the plot yeah, the
plot which they overthink.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Hey there, I'm here with my sister, emily Guy-Burken
she does not use a hyphen and Iam here with my sister, tracy
Guy-Dekker she does use a hyphen, I do, it's true and together
this is Lightbringers, where weilluminate the deeper meaning of
the crime-solving devil TV show.
And, yeah, we are overthinkingit so much.
(01:32):
So today we're gonna talk about405 and 406, expire erect and
orgy pants to work, and weactually had planned to record
this, like three weeks ago, twoweeks ago.
So we're gonna talk about 405and 406, two weeks ago, two
weeks ago, whatever, some timeago, and now we're recording.
(01:53):
So we both had to re-watch orre-watch so that we could record
, which is an interestingphenomenon.
Hasn't happened to us before.
It's like when I do the laundryand then forget to put it in a
dryer so I gotta wash it again,is it mildly?
Yeah, yeah, that's a yuckymetaphor, thank you for that,
but it's, you know, it'srelatable.
(02:14):
What's interesting about thesetwo episodes?
I'm thinking it's now that I'vere-watched and re-watched,
especially expire erect, like ithas like, especially the way it
starts.
It's this sort of absurdist andlike funny, but sort of like
(02:35):
funny, weird and a little bitfunny, ha ha.
But actually there's somereally deep, dark contemplation
happening in these two episodeswhich I think is kind of
interesting.
So when it comes to expire,erect, I think that you know
(02:56):
getting into that deeper stuff.
At the end, when Chloe talks toMenadil cause she was like I
kind of want to just make surethat Eve is okay, that she's not
going to be trying to destroythe world or she's not secretly
evil or anything, because, likeshe saw that Eve really does
(03:17):
appear to be good for Lucifer,and the fact that the response
that Eve has when Chloe says toher like have you seen a scary
base?
Does it scare you?
And she's like why would it?
And like that is the mostaccepting possible response.
And then when Eve says, andit's here and in the next
(03:40):
episode where she's like no oneever asked me what I wanted
until him except for him, andrecognizing the power of that,
it's completely understandablewhy Eve would pine for him and
slip back into her old bones.
Look at him.
(04:01):
Well, yeah, that too.
Yeah, if you were my ex, therewould definitely be some pining.
Anyway, sorry I interrupted you,but it's understandable why she
would spend millennia and tothe point of where she realized,
(04:22):
like you know what.
This is unsustainable for me.
To stay in heaven cause this isso boring, like Adam doesn't
love me and never will, and likeall he wants to do is sit and
watch ESPN and I just I want todo stuff and experience stuff.
So the fact that she, you know,like was like all right, I'm
gonna see if I can get out ofheaven and like get back into my
old bones, which is kind offreaking cool.
(04:45):
So, you know, it's interestingthat you bring up that final
conversation with Amenadiel,because one of the things that I
noticed in my re-re-watch wasthat earlier in the episode,
amenadiel was sort of havingthat's the inverse thought about
Eve and Lucifer, that she's notgood for him because she's
(05:07):
gonna erase the growth that he'shad, and so and I actually
think DB Woodside kind of playedthat in that final conversation
with Chloe, because it almostfelt like he was holding
something back yes, when she waslike he didn't say I hope so.
(05:28):
When she said something like heseems good, she seems good for
him, eve seems good for Lucifer,and he was like I hope you're
right, yeah yeah.
Amenadiel doesn't think that Eveis good for Lucifer, and so I
think that that was so.
It was interesting to have thatconversation happen with Chloe
and Amenadiel specifically notLinda, right, like not Maze, but
(05:54):
Amenadiel, who had expressedconcerns about this relationship
and what it might mean forLucifer.
Also, as an aside, overthinkingit, since in our last episode I
went into my long rabbit holeabout Eve's name, and then
there's that back and forthwhere DB Woodside as Amenadiel
keeps going Eve, you know, andfinally Ellis is Lucifer.
(06:17):
It's like I know her name, yeah, and I'm like actually there I
am sitting in my living roomoverthinking it.
Anyway, that just like tickledme after our last conversation.
Yes, very much so.
Yeah, I had that thought aswell because of what you had
gone into with that with hername.
(06:38):
Yeah, with her name.
The thing that I think isinteresting is the next episode
does seem to indicate that Eveis bad for him, but I'm not sure
how I feel about that Now, likethe, and in the next episode,
(06:58):
what we have happened is sheencourages him to like accept
his devil nature and punish thehuman trafficker piece of crap
who they write to be socompletely lacking in any
sympathy.
He's zero redeeming.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Anything no redeeming .
Speaker 3 (07:16):
And they had to do that so that we, so that they
don't lose us, yes, they don'tlose our sympathy for the devil.
Yes, see what I did there.
They had to write that guywhose name is escaping me,
julian McCaffrey, thank you.
They had to write Julian aslike rotten as possible and
smarmy and like arrogant andentitled, so that they don't
(07:40):
lose our sympathy when theyleave us, knowing that Lucifer
is about to torture him.
Yes, yeah, and I mean it wasbad, like I watching it not the
second rewatch, but the first wewatched two weeks ago when we
thought we were gonna connect Ihad forgotten some of the
details and so when they get tothe ship and then I see the
women, like the you knowpowering women, coming off the
(08:03):
ship and I was like it's people,you know, like it was sort of
green or something and and likeit, like it, really like it's.
Oh, there's a visceral like, oh, really rough, he didn't just
kill poor boring Gary.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
It's so.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
So I actually I want to come back to something you
said about that.
The second episode suggeststhat Eve is bad for him, which I
think it's really interesting,because I actually think the
writers are trying toproblematize for us, like by
spending all this time andhaving Chloe say do you like who
you are, do you like whatyou're doing?
And like this question of if Iwant to be a better person, but
(08:45):
I've never been that person.
Is it somehow disingenuous?
Is it even real?
Is the way that Lucifer says itwhich we're going to spend?
We spent a lot of time in this,all six seasons, thinking about
what is real, which I think isinteresting.
Yeah, I actually think thatthere is some.
There is at least someambivalence on the part of our
(09:07):
writers that they want us tofeel about Lucifer.
I mean because Eva's right, itwas the bad man's fault that
Joan died, it was not Lucifer's.
And also, if Lucifer had made adifferent choice earlier in the
episode, joan wouldn't be dead,right, and so there's definitely
(09:30):
a push and pull on whether ornot Eva's version of who Lucifer
is is bad.
Well, and part of what I'mreacting to, also in Orgy Pants
to Work, is Linda says to himlike you're bifurcating yourself
(09:52):
, you're trying to be two thingsat once and I kind of I
recognize what they're doing inthe episode with Lucifer and he
clearly cannot do both things atonce.
All in, like that.
But I reject the idea that youcan't be both of those things
Agreed.
(10:12):
And they talk about it a littlebit, they get into it just a
titsy little bit when Luciferand Ella are interviewing people
at the nudist colony beforeChloe joins them.
Annie is the name of the likesweet old work lady who is
talking like new Gary Well andsaying like oh, he just he found
his place and his people hereand like you know, when he was
(10:33):
getting involved in all thecommunity stuff and he was going
to help us with the chest cluband the chest club, yeah, yeah.
And he was going to help us allwith our taxes and he's like oh
so, he was a dedicatedaccountant and a nudist.
And she's like we come from allwalks of life, you know, we've
got teachers, judges, you know,but, and so there's a little bit
of like yeah, it is possible tohave a outside the norm
(10:56):
lifestyle and a perfectly withinthe norm job, and that that's
something like and you can goall in on both of them, like he,
like poor Gary had gone all in,like he found the nudist colony
, he was just like I finallyfeel comfortable, and he joined
the chest club and the book cluband made friends with their
(11:18):
taxes.
Yeah, so that that's me like.
Not that I like this is a greatepisode and it's not that I wish
that they had done anythingdifferent, but I feel like the
message of the episode is likeno, you can't have it all.
And it's like well, I kind ofreject that in the same way,
like when I first startedworking with children, when I
(11:43):
worked at the boys and girlsclub when I was out of college,
and there would be things that Idid on the weekend where I'm
like I can't believe they let merun children and like it just
just being a normal young adultand like I don't want people to
feel like you can't containmultitudes.
You know you can't be a like inthe same way that we first see
(12:10):
Eve in that episode and she'slike hi, great, no hostess rules
.
You know she can be like she'staking care of her guests while
being a dominatrix, right, well,say, nobody passes out unless
they want to.
I mean, like you can be, it's aboth end, and so that, to me,
(12:33):
is where I struggle with thisepisode, because it's saying
that Lucifer can't do this andlike I don't see why he can't.
Yeah, I think if there were likesome differences, like if he
just made some concessions inboth parts of his life, you know
, were actual trousers to work,were actual trousers to work and
(12:53):
had had, like you know,standing dates, rather than,
like we're spending every daytogether, all the time Briefly
off.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because heeven says to me this is a school
night party.
Like you should come back onthe weekends.
Yeah, you know, it'sinteresting too, because I do
think that in some ways thewriters acknowledge that when
(13:14):
Chloe realizes he's asleep andshe's like I want you to be
happy, but I hate the way you'rehappy, I think there is sort of
an acknowledgement of like it'snot that he can't have that
lifestyle, it's that she'suncomfortable with it.
She even recognizes it's kindof not her place, although in
some ways it's because she's,she's jealous, which she also
(13:35):
admits because she loves him.
But yeah, it's interesting andcomplicated.
Yeah, I appreciate them takingthis on.
I, just when Linda is so oftenthe like, the voice of reason, I
wish there had just been likeanother sentence in there about
like you're bifurcating yourlife right now.
(13:57):
Like you say you're having itall, but I, you know it doesn't
look like it's not saying it'snot possible, but it's not
happening.
You know, like that's what Iwish there had been something in
there, just just because, likeso often, people will choose the
normal path, I think so.
(14:18):
Here's the thing.
What I think was missingespecially from this show, right
, that that, and Eve keepsmaking the point about nobody
asked what I want, right, likepart of what is unsustainable
about Lucifer's having it all isthat he is trying to make both
of those women happy with hisbehavior, as opposed to like
(14:46):
what does he want, and that'swhy he spends all that time,
like why she says you just spentthe past several minutes
sending apology gifts to both ofthem.
I feel like that's actually whatis unsustainable that he's
trying to be 100% the man thatChloe wants and 100% the man
(15:06):
that Eve wants, but those twomen are not the same man, and so
that's really what'sunsustainable.
So it's not that you can't haveit all, or even that you can't,
like have things that you know,two things that actually don't
touch except in you.
They don't touch in time, butthey can't touch in time, and
(15:27):
that's where, like, I don't know, like I'm not exactly sure how
I would write it differently,but I do think that that really
is what.
Well, and that problem, andwhich is interesting from this
show, which is all about desire,yes, well in particular, since
that's what he does is.
He tries to fulfill the desiresof the people around him so that
(15:49):
that actually very much fits,rather than his own.
Rather than his own desires,yeah, yeah, which you know he.
The only time he actuallyspeaks to his own desires at
that point is when he says hewants to be a better man.
Work makes him want to be abetter man, which work is the
euphemism for Chloe?
I, I understood.
(16:10):
Yeah, yeah, so that it's.
It's a there's, there's layers,there's layers here.
That's why we do this.
Also, a bunch of dick jokes.
So, oh, so many dick jokes.
Can I just say did you noticeyellow squash in the fruit bowl?
(16:32):
Well, they thought a bananawould be just too obvious Banana
joke A couple episodes ago.
Yes, yeah, so can.
Can I just point out, did?
Did you notice that?
Expire erect is their theirversion of diehard?
No, expire, die, correct, hard.
(16:55):
Oh, and it is also a kidnappingsituation.
Yeah, huh, that's not one of my.
It's not.
It's another Capaganda movie.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
I have seen it once.
It's not one of mine.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah, I've seen it more than you have.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Oh, have you.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah, I've only seen it once and I just yeah, so, but
yeah, that to me seemed likesomeone was just like oh, this
is going to be hilarious.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
So I do want to talk a little bit about some of the
stuff that happened in Expire Tostart the car show stuff.
So I married to an automotiveengineer who was a died in the
wool car geek.
His first car was a vintageVolkswagen Beetle that he fixed
up himself.
My first car was a VolkswagenBeetle which I hired someone to
(17:49):
fix up and he was two hours lateto pick up his like homecoming
date in the Beetle because hewas trying to get it running and
she was not impressed and Istill didn't pass like state
inspection requirements.
In any case, I know that scene alittle bit better than most and
(18:13):
that felt about right.
The thing that I will tell youthat is absolutely correct was
Kev, the guy who was theirsuspect, who got tired, Right.
This is the best pun.
It was a good pun, that's thebest.
I think that might have killedhim, though I know like
(18:33):
considering how hard it hit him,but sorry, but Kev, he's like
you should check out the scaryguy Like.
I don't know his name.
I can't tell you what he lookedlike.
I was a 1992, geo Metro in hiscolor, whatever?
Green.
And I was like that is spot on.
My husband does not know thenames of our neighbors, but he
(18:56):
can tell you exactly what theyeach drive.
Yeah, yeah, so yeah, that waswell done, writers.
So I appreciated that I also.
I had this realization this timearound.
So we're in this portion of theshow where the first person
they interview turns out to bethe murderer, although that does
(19:19):
not happen in Orgy Pants Otherthings happen in Orgy Pants.
So I was thinking like what theheck was Marco doing?
Like waiting around so he couldbe interviewed, and then like
that doesn't make any sense.
And then realizing, oh wait, no, he wants to eventually be on
their radar so that they canhelp him find Leona.
I'm like, oh, okay, all right,I'll give that, because it was
(19:43):
just like Leona at some pointsays he always was tougher than
he was smart.
I'm like yeah, but then like,okay, well, yeah, no, if you
wouldn't have been on theirradar and that made it more
likely that blah, blah, blah,blah.
But how long did it take him toset up that bomb?
It couldn't have taken him thatlong, because how do you know
where Detective Decker would be.
(20:04):
Yeah, that's a good point,although Lucifer was with her at
the crime scene.
Although he wasn't with her atthe crime scene, where he met
her, where Marco met her,because that was no.
That was at the very beginning,when they were like, oh right,
because she calls him, becauseshe needs the car.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Right, you're right you're right.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
You're right.
Yeah, why did he?
Why was it at Luc's?
So the only thing I could thinkof is that he followed her
there, and it doesn't like hehad everything all set up.
All he had to do was like popin a couple things.
Yeah, because it was in a box.
Yeah, we just had to drop thebox.
Yeah, so it was my theory.
So, like he got there aboutthat same time that Chloe did
(20:47):
and just boop, boop, boop, boop,boop, boop.
All right now, yeah, that works, especially like it wasn't like
hidden, really.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, it was just up on the landing.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
It was just up on the landing.
Yeah, a little unobtrusive, nothidden.
So the other thing I was likewhat if he had eaten the
Southwest sandwich withoutseeing Chloe about it In that
one?
Why is Dan calling the shots?
Where's the lieutenant?
(21:17):
I mean they must have replacedPierce and it wouldn't have been
with Dan.
He's still kind of demoted.
I mean he's.
Yeah, it's economy ofcharacters, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I also like I struggled to believe that Dan
would let Leona in to talk toMarco.
I think because Chloe and Ellawere in there, he might have
accepted it.
Yeah Well, and after theconversation of the ends, just
by the beans things with thebabies.
(21:56):
Well, and specifically like whenhe said like people I care
about and you know what I mean,like.
So I think they did set us upthat he maybe wasn't in his most
strategic thinking, becausewe're talking about Chloe, it's
more the like but why is hecalling the shots when the SWAT
team go like what are you doing?
Excuse me, yeah, what are youdoing?
(22:17):
Yeah, so I don't know why hewould have been calling the
shots at all.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
I feel like someone in the chain of command would
have been like absolutely not,we're not doing that.
Yeah, we're at least put her inprotective gear, protective
gear something.
Yeah, yeah, so yeah.
So we're focusing a lot on orgypants, but I'm going to come
back to it again.
So at the beginning we realizedthere's been like a month or
(22:45):
more between the last one andthe last episode.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
I go out of town for a few months and you 50 shades
of betray me Right.
Well, she says a few minutesand he's like been gone for
months.
Yeah, yeah, months, becausethen she's surprised that Linda.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Because Linda it's.
Yeah, it's probably at leastthree or four months for Linda
to have grown.
Yeah, yeah, so, okay.
So there's a small littlesubplot about May's kind of
grappling with her maternalwounds, her early maternal
wounds.
Right, you know it's coming in.
(23:22):
Lillith is the mother of thedemons, the lilym, of whom there
are thousands, they are legion.
Who's their father?
I think it's like aparthenogenesis.
(23:44):
It's clear from the Jewishapocrypha.
Lucifer is their father.
I'm not okay with that.
I know.
Maybe all except May's, allexcept May's, may's was the
first and just because she doeslook exactly like Lillith, which
(24:06):
we'll know later, she does, andso I think she was just like
parthenogenesis.
I think our raiders don't wantto deal with the fact that he
has a millennial long sexualrelationship with his kid.
It's not, though, because he'sso weirded out by his mom, I
(24:26):
know, but, like our raiders,they just don't answer.
They never tell us who she justcreates her own children.
That's what Lillith did.
That is my head cannon and youcannot take it away from me.
Okay, but if we're overthinkingthis and I am the resident like
(24:49):
biblical scholar such as I am,well, what was the okay, since
they also bring it up?
The Lillith and Adam?
What is the background on that?
Because the first time I willtell you, the first time I ever
heard of Lillith, was in when Iread the Lion, the Witch and the
Word Road, and Mr Beaverexplains to the pevency children
(25:13):
, like you know, aren't allhuman, sons of Adam and
daughters of Eve.
He's like no, adam had a firstwife, lillith.
You know her children are not.
And I was just like what is hemaking up?
I've never heard this before.
So if you look at Genesis, thereare two creation stories that
get kind of like shoved together.
(25:34):
The first one says in the KingJames male and female, created
he them.
God created humans, a boy and agirl.
The boy was Adam, the girl wasLillith, so they were created as
equal.
And then later it says thething about the rib that God
(26:00):
made Adam a.
Help me out of Adam's ribbecause it is not good, because
God saw that it was not good forAdam to be alone.
So it's really.
I mean, if you kind of likepeel back the layers, it appears
to be two separate stories thatgot shoved together into the
same book.
To explain the discrepancythere's, this whole story got
spun off about that firstequally created female Lillith
(26:26):
and the story that got createdbecause they were like well,
what happened to her right,where did the name Lillith come
from?
That I don't know.
That I don't know.
But I will do research becauseshe comes up again.
So I'll do research, stay tuned, folks.
But what I do know is theancient rabbis and sages were
like well, what happened?
And they spun off this wholestory where, because they were
(26:48):
created as equal, adam was likelie down, i'mma get on top of
you.
And she was like no, I won't beon top of you.
And he was like bye, andbecause she wouldn't submit, I
mean, they were still talkingabout, like, basically, either
missionary or woman astride.
They were talking about sex,but because she wanted to be on
(27:09):
top, like she got banished andshe was like y'all, y'all, I'm
out.
So she wanted to make sure thather own pleasure was important.
Adam freaked out and she left.
She left the garden, she wentand married the devil, okay, and
(27:33):
what were the things that Evewas talking about in this
episode?
About, like the?
Adam would be like, oh, lilith,she something conquered the
beasts or something.
Oh well, this is whole story.
Well, because she goes off andshe becomes the consort to the
devil.
She has, she has, with wholemythology around her, okay, so
(27:54):
of power, but I don't, I don'tknow, like those specific things
didn't ring any bells for her.
Okay, okay.
Now the other question I havefor you, then, is the way that
it's written in this show isthat Eve didn't understand sex
(28:14):
until Lucifer tempted her.
Is the way that they've writtenit?
I think it's more that shedidn't understand pleasure,
pleasure her own, okay, I mean,which is in line with the way
that the rabbis understood theargument between Lilith and Adam
(28:36):
.
But Adam wanted to be on top.
Yeah, well, because the no, evedoes say it's on.
When Eve was made, she was like, yeah, okay, okay, I lie down.
The thing is that the well,okay, I was.
Just because Eve says you neverforget your first, but I guess
it doesn't still mean first time, it might just mean first
(28:57):
orgasm or first love, or first,you know, yeah, I just that
wasn't an earlier episode, thatwasn't in this.
Oh no, that was when she wastalking to the jewelry guy, the
shear.
Yeah, yeah, no, it's, it wasn'tin this.
One of these episodes I wasjust like thinking about that.
Okay, all right, and it's.
I mean, it's on, it's possible.
It is a possible readingbecause the so the story they're
(29:20):
.
They're living in the garden.
God says you can eat of anytree except for that one in the
center of the garden, and thatwas the tree of the knowledge of
good and evil.
And after that they realizedthey were naked and put on the
figures Exactly, exactly.
After that they realized theywere naked and they hide, yeah,
because they were ashamed oftheir nakedness, uh-huh.
(29:41):
Which they were not.
Yeah, they were not eating theapple.
So one could potentially readthat there was, that there was
not in fact sexual intimacybetween the two of them prior to
.
I would have to look it up, butmy recollection of the Genesis
(30:02):
story is that Adam doesn't knowhis wife until after they are
exiled.
And then became an ablerconceived.
Yeah, yeah, that's myrecollection.
Okay, I would, I so?
So the knowledge of the tree ofknowledge was really the
knowledge of body dysmorphia.
(30:23):
It's specifically the knowledgeof good and evil.
Yeah, and I, I know, I know,and that's that's where a lot of
like really regressive bullshitcomes from about how, like, sex
is sinful, because that's what,yeah, adam and Eve were ashamed
of.
Yeah, yeah, it's.
(30:44):
I think it's complicated.
I think you could read it inmany ways.
I just pulled down the text.
This is the JPS translation.
So when, after?
So, eve is named because shewas the mother of all living,
but that was before, like thathappens at 320.
But then that's before they'vebeen cast out.
(31:04):
And so, and at and at 322,genesis 322, adonai says now the
man that is Adam has becomelike one of us, knowing good and
bad.
What if he should stretch outhis hand and take also from the
tree of life and live forever?
Okay, so Adonai banished himfrom the Garden of Eden to till
the soil from which he was taken, drove the man out, stationed
(31:25):
east of Eden, the cherubim withthe fiery sword to guard the way
.
4-1, genesis 4-1.
Now the man knew his wife, eve,and she conceived in Borkane.
So I don't believe that weactually see.
I mean, like the text, thereare lots of holes in the text.
Yeah, that's why we have Midrashthere are a lot of holes you
(31:46):
could drive a semi through.
That's why we have Midrash, butthey did not.
I do not believe that they had.
The text does not say that theyhad sex until until they've
been banished.
Yeah, and that's you know whatto.
I guess I think this is anexpir erect also.
Yeah, it is when Amenadiel saysto its Eve are you going to
(32:08):
hurt Lucifer, have you hurt him?
And she's like, only if he asks.
Nicely, and she's like, andAmenadiel points out like he
killed your son.
And what's interesting is,until that moment, the like the
show is not presenting her asthe mother of Canaan Abel, Like
they're very much presenting heras the like first pre-Garden,
(32:32):
yeah, the guard version of Eve,and her explanation seems
interesting and also very cold.
Like she calls Abel her sweetchild, Like you know, and that
Charlotte Richard reminded herof Abel and that Can only got
(32:53):
what was coming to him.
And even though she refers toAbel as her sweet kid you know,
my sweet Abel, there's nothingvery maternal there for either
of them.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
No.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Well, that doesn't fit with the party girl.
No, they want the, the book thatShell wants her to be.
Yeah, yeah, and you know that's.
It's also, you know, fair.
She didn't have to be maternal.
It's interesting because that'snot how another show that was
more committed to certainviewpoints would have.
(33:32):
If I guess what?
I?
I spend a lot of time watchingYouTube shows and listening to
podcasts and stuff like thatabout fundamentalists,
fundamentalist Christianity, andif they were in charge of the
show which obviously they wouldnever be, but they it would be
(33:55):
very important to them to showher as, like you know, endlessly
maternal.
And so and I just I find thatinteresting because, like, we
just don't think of her as beingmother at all.
Well, it wouldn't work for the,the role that this character
plays in this mechanism wouldn'twork.
(34:17):
She needs to be the foil toChloe.
Chloe is straight-list, chloeis maternal.
She even says I go to PTAmeetings, you go to orgies.
Yeah, that's true.
Chloe is the mother.
In this love triangle, eve isthe whore.
Right, if we have the maidenmother, crone, and then there's
(34:42):
the whore and the witch, eve isthe whore in this little thing.
Chloe's the mother.
That's even her attitude towardLucifer.
Like, I want you to be happy.
Eve is good for him.
It's still a caretaking.
I mean, that's what Menadilsays to her.
Like, after all you've beenthrough, you're most worried
(35:05):
about the best interests of thepeople you care about.
I mean, if that isn't ourarchetypal mother characteristic
, I don't know what is.
Yeah, there's something alsovery young about Eve, yep, which
is why I say she's the whoreand not the witch.
Yes, like the witch is like me,like through the menopausal,
(35:27):
perimenopausal, postmenopausalage, no longer childbearing.
But, honey, you could be awhore if you want to be.
Thanks, you're a witchy whore,yes, but specifically, my
sexuality is only like someoneat my stage of life, like past
(35:48):
childbearing age, my sexualityis only for pleasure, which is
because I cannot procreate,because I'm too old for that
shit.
But I'm not a crone yet.
Eve, the way that in Barlaviplays her and the way that our
writers write her is not at thatphase.
She's not even.
(36:08):
She's not between mother andcrone, she's between maiden and
mother.
Even though officially she's amother, she's that sort of in
between space between maiden andmother, and so that and that
space is a whore, which is partof why she has I mean, not has
to she lives into it.
They write into her that all ofthat.
(36:31):
You know she's up for anything,including you know she
expresses sexual appreciation ofmaize.
Repeatedly.
She kisses Ella to calm herdown, like, so it's not even
just the heterosexual sex, whichis all the more so for that.
(36:55):
Yeah, so a version of role whodoes not allow her sexuality to
be only controlled byprocreation?
Yeah, yeah, and it actually itfits.
I mean, it fits withconsidering, like, the way that
they've written her is like Iwas literally made from someone
else.
For that person, I'm a subsetof another human being and you
(37:15):
told me I could be more thanthat, and so I'm being all the
more than that I could be, whichalso feels very young, like
it's the.
It's the when someone breaksout of the straight laced rules
of their childhood and kind ofgoing the wild out.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Yeah, but it also my first watch through.
I got frustrated because Ireally like the character of Eve
and, like I've mentioned before, inbar Lavi does an amazing job
with a thankless role in thatshe makes her likeable.
Like you really are rooting forher, even though Even when
she's encouraging Lucifer totorture someone yes and so like
(37:58):
I'll give it to her.
Yeah, she's got a point here.
I mean they did write that guyinto it.
Oh, my goodness.
So also.
I mentioned this when weweren't able to record last time
.
But like, that guy has apunchable face, like Martin
Shkreli, shkreli, yeah, and so,like Martin Shkreli, I don't
think his punchable face evercomes off Like I think.
(38:19):
That's just, I think his facewould have looked punchable when
he was six.
I don't know.
I mean the entitlement Well,that's what I think.
The entitlement's been theresince birth.
The farmabrow he was afarmabrow.
Yes, he was the one who madeIncrease the crisis of insulin I
think or something yeah, it wasa diabetes.
Yeah, just for profit, justcause he could, yeah.
(38:43):
So, anyway, I looked up thisactor.
I was just like how, like youknow, did they cast someone who
just has a punchable face, or isthat something that you can act
your way into?
Some of it is the way he looks.
So I looked up this actor andhe's not been a whole bunch of
stuff, but I found a trailer foran independent movie he was in
(39:05):
and he's acting that punchableface, like he was playing a
sympathetic character in themovie.
I saw the trailer for and I'mjust like, holy cow, like, and I
kept having to remind myself Iwas the same guy, cause I'm like
it doesn't look like I'm likehim.
It's that, it's the yeah.
It's the smoke, it's the smokeso I got sidetracked cause of
the punchable face.
I was talking about witches andwhores.
(39:29):
Yeah, oh, oh, oh, okay, okay.
I remember getting frustratedthe first time through cause I
liked Eve and when she's, likeyou know, just sitting waiting
for Lucifer and Maze, it's likecome on, let's get out of here.
You know it's cause you don'thave a life.
You know you need a life Endswhen she gets.
(39:51):
When they get back in, they'veclearly had a wonderful time
because they have a giant teddybear and a chainsaw and a sash
and they're laughing and they'relaughing, but Lucifer still
isn't home and I can rememberfeeling that way as a teenager
whereas, like you know what, I'mgoing to go off and do my own
thing and isn't he going to bemad, miss me, and like nope,
(40:16):
still doesn't, still isn't there, and that really bothered me
that she wasn't able to get pastthat.
But it actually really fitswith how she's written and that
she's saying, like you know, shewas created to be something for
someone and so even when shebreaks out to be herself, she's
(40:36):
still going to kind of latchonto that role because it's the
only one she's known.
So but yeah, that's like she'sdown through that ball in the
swimming pool, like I'm sureI'll be back any minute, just
like oh honey, no, don't do that.
Go have fun with Maze, gocreate a life for yourself.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
I do wonder, like the gifts that he got, the printer
for Chloe.
I mean maybe, yeah, maybe ifshe'd been complaining about the
precinct printer, I guess Idon't.
I mean, it made for ainteresting moment when Eve got
(41:22):
it and was like oh, this guy andlike plugged it in, but yeah,
no, it didn't work for me either.
Same thing with the sex doll,it's just like, but that at
least I think Eve wouldappreciate that I don't know,
honestly, it made more sensethan a printer.
True, very true, yeah, yeah.
Well, we have been talking fora while.
(41:45):
So that thought, and then let'smove on to fluff Meal and a
menadil.
So how did that end?
That's the thing I actually.
Last time, when we planned it,I was just like wait a minute,
how did that end?
Did I forget how it ended?
And it's because it doesn't end.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
He tells her that he is, and then it cuts away.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
And the next time we see him.
He's showing up at Chloe'shouse.
Yeah, no, no, he doesn't showup at Chloe's house.
That's in the first.
That's an expirer act.
Remmials is in orgy pants.
Oh, okay, and so we just don'tsee a solution.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Don't see them again.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
So maybe it'll be in devil is, devil is as devil does
.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
And it is yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
There's, I know, the remmials like a two or three
store three episode arc.
So, yeah, it's interestingseeing another Celestial because
we see so few of them.
And yeah, seeing that she's theyounger hero worshiper that
Azrael is to Issafer is kind ofcool.
(42:53):
You know, what's interestingtoo is that.
So she's got a scar on it onone cheek and in one of our
recent episodes a many deal sayswe were born fully formed
adults, like there's never beenan angel baby before which they
(43:15):
needed for the moment, so thatyou know Linda could have her
freaked out and whatever.
But I don't.
I feel with other things thatthey've said like, didn't they
even like when we met Uriel,didn't the goddess say something
like remember when you all werekids, you know like, and he was
(43:36):
always chasing after you, likeit.
Just, I think it's a young time.
She might have said maybe Idon't know, I'd have to go back
and look at it, but I was leftwith the impression that they
did have childhoods of a sortand anyway, and that sort of
like hero worship about your bigbrother or older I mean older
(43:58):
brother, big brother, doesn'tmake sense.
If you were born, I mean Idon't know.
But anyway, the other thing,like the scar, which I guess the
actress just has a scar, butlike it bothered me a little bit
because they're celestials,they make it clear that she's a
huntress, so but she shouldn't,she should heal, unless it was
(44:19):
another angel, that anothercelestial, that was a celestial
stag can can, because it's yeah,I guess it's a silver city stag
.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yeah, yeah, all right , all right, all right.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
All right, you got your overthinking problems, I
got your overthinking solutionsMental furniture rearranging.
Celestial stags can injure.
Celestial stags can injurecelestial angels.
Angels, yes.
I wonder what it, what it doesto the human souls.
I mean, do they?
(44:56):
Do they not have?
They don't have any.
They don't have a corporealbody Like Azrael's blade.
Yeah yeah, oh yeah.
So I think you're not allowedto go to the woods outside of
the silver city because thecelestial stags can destroy you.
So, all right, there you go,fluff, you got some fluff, fluff
.
I just I want to just anappreciation post for both Tom
(45:24):
Ellis and Amy Garcia's asses.
I second Damn Also her hair,because I have pretty long hair
and I know her like I think thatmust have been some hair
extensions because I don't thinkit cover her boobs completely,
(45:48):
so and she's got long hair.
But I like I don't think she'sgot hair halfway down her torso,
long hair.
So I want to.
Oh, I want to talk about whenthey're.
(46:09):
When he is sleeping in the carand she wakes him up, he says
that's me the goat.
Yes, but remember, he doesn'tknow where the goat thing came
from.
He claims, right, he hates thegoat thing.
I was thinking maybe it's not adevil thing, maybe it's an orgy
thing.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Worse.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
And like it was adorable.
But also like what?
Like when he snores and thenhe's sort of like yeah, I refuse
to believe anyone thatattractive, is that gross.
Sleeping, like the snoring wasone thing.
Actually, my spouse was in theroom when that happened and goes
what is he doing with his mouth?
(47:06):
Yeah, yeah, oh, one other pieceof fluff.
The first time around watchingthis, we were talking about,
like I think it was sometimeduring season five and you know,
like before Lucifer and Chloeactually get together, we're
(47:28):
like how is this going to work?
Because she is a human womanand a human woman cannot handle
10 times a day and a big Benstrikes 10.
He's big Ben.
How is that going to work?
I mean, even with his abilityto draw out her desire, there is
(47:51):
such a thing as chafing.
So I don't know.
I don't know.
I have wondered about that,because that's 10 times a day,
it's every two and a half hoursand that's if you don't sleep,
(48:14):
that's every hour and a half.
You get out eight hours a night.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
How, what?
Speaker 3 (48:25):
That's why he's never been tied down to just one
person.
Yeah yeah, that kind of needrequires an open relationship.
Yeah Well, and the fact that hesays to Eve give a devil a
break at the very beginning,just like, let a devil recharge.
Yeah, what have you been doing,eve?
(48:49):
And like, is it a saibaris?
I got nothing.
I got nothing, nothing.
(49:09):
I'm glad that I can end on astrong note.
So, see you next week.
See you next week.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Thanks Netflix, nor WB.
(49:56):
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