April 4, 2024 • 41 mins
“Detective Amenadiel” and “Blue Ballz” are the only two episodes in this whole experiment that the sisters watched while in the same room, and they contain some of their most beloved and most reviled of the whole series.
In their meanderings, the Guy girls think about the metaphor of reflection as used both visually and rhetorically in “Detective Amenadiel.” They ruminate on the badassery of Maze bounty hunting the object of Linda’s angst and thereby come up with the premise for a new book series featuring Emily’s best friend Erika as a bounty-hunting priest. Tracie is also deeply bothered by the reverse engineering of the storytelling required to get Lucifer’s phone into Michael’s hands.
The sisters try to find universe-complilant justificaiton for how some people see proof of divinity and are driven to distraction by it while the villain in one of these episodes is repulsed. At the same time, Emily loses her ability to word when thinking about the sexiness of the final five minutes of “Bule Ballz” and also the inadequacy of Jed’s nose (it’s simply too small).
Originally published as a YouTube show with different theme music.
Our theme song is "Feral Angel Waltz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
To learn more about Tracie and Emily and our other projects, to support us, and join the Guy Girls' family, visit us on Patreon.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Tracy and Emily are smart, lovable sisters who
really love Lucifer for the plotyeah, the plot which they
overthink.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hi, I'm here with my sister, emily Guy-Burken.
She does not use a hyphen.
And I'm here, actually here,with my sister, tracy Guy-Decker
, and she does use a hyphen.
That's true.
And together we areLightbringers where we
illuminate the deeper meaning ofthe crime-solving devil TV show
.
And, yes, we're overthinking it, so much overthinking, yeah,
(00:42):
and today we're talking aboutepisodes 505 and 506, detective
Amenadiel and Blue Balls with aZ, but just one Z, despite how
Tracy just announced it.
That's how Ella says it.
Yes, to let Lucifer know thatshe's not referring to yeah,
yeah, you have children in theother room.
(01:05):
You gotta be careful.
Oh, um, this is actually thefirst time we've ever, uh,
watched together, which is kindof cool.
It was so fun.
Yeah, so, okay.
So we'll start at the beginningwith detective Amenadiel, which
you were saying is one of,except for the final scene.
No, that's Blue Balls, no, it'sBlue Balls.
(01:25):
So Detective Amenadiel is theone that takes place mostly in a
convent, the case of the week.
The body was that of anun-to-be yes, a novitiate, I
think is the word Novitiate Anovice, kind of Latin-y.
She was about to take orders.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
(01:47):
So let's talk about this one,because I think it actually like
this case in the week actuallygives us a number of kind of
like cosmological things thatare sort of interesting.
Yeah, so I do.
I have to say I reallyappreciate chloe is saying to I
believe it's a menadeal, itmight be, it might be Lucifer,
(02:08):
where she's like I just, I justwant to work, I don't want to
deal with anything celestial andshe shows up and it's a convent
.
It's just like hilarious.
Yeah, you know, I don't knowwho the director was.
I remember noticing it and thenI've totally forgotten it since
we watched.
(02:28):
But there were some interestingdirectorial choices, like when
she enters the convent and thecamera like springs upside down
so she's walking in, like on thetop of the frame, which, like I
don't know, I guess StrangerThings has me thinking about,
like the upside down andwhatever.
Well, it got me thinking aboutthe fact that, like satanists,
(02:51):
like the ones we saw in thefirst season, turn the cross
upside down.
Um, and even though that's notreally supported by any aspect
of like within this world ofLucifer, nor is it, it's not
(03:15):
meaningful in any way as its own, like kind of theology, it's a
reaction to Christianity, right,right, right, which is kind of
interesting and maybespecifically for Chloe at this
moment.
Yeah, there's also.
Well, this director had a lotof like reflections too.
I feel like we looked at a lotof like of them on the piano at
(03:38):
the end.
We sort of see them double.
Yeah, that's true.
And then also at the very end,like it comes up to the ceiling,
like he has that light fixturethat's like a tree, yeah, and
then it's like the reflection ofthat, yeah, which is actually
now right side up.
Yeah, we spent a lot of timewith that light fixture actually
.
Yeah, it was important in thatfinal scene of season four and
(04:00):
now that I'm saying it out loud,actually reflecting is
significant for this episode,right, because that is the
epiphany that Amenadiel has isthat he is reflecting back at
people their love of God, whichis why the nuns feel so drawn to
him, because her religiousfervor is fake, and also it
(04:31):
explains Lucifer's appeal,because he reflects people's
desire back at them.
So I guess initially I was like, oh, he just likes playing with
reflections, but now that I'mtalking out loud, it actually
does have some metaphor.
Yeah, it's a nice through line,yeah, so that's kind of
interesting.
(04:53):
I will say I felt like I mean,this is one of those things
where sometimes you'll dosomething that works for the
story but doesn't work for thecharacter, or works for the
character but doesn't work forthe character, or the character
but doesn't work for the story.
In this case, the way thatchloe was kind of rude to the
nuns worked for the story.
That did not work for hercharacter.
(05:14):
Yeah, she's always professional.
Yeah, um, and, and part of itis it's because it's usually
lucifer is the one who's beingcompletely unprofessional and
making it about him, and theywanted to do that for the story,
but it just felt odd.
(05:36):
You know, on that same sort ofvein, at the end, when Hank,
when Menad, a deal reveals I'mputting air quotes around that
reveals himself or exposeshimself, that's the word.
Uh, it's supposed to exposemyself to nuts.
When he exposes himself to hankand like uses the wings as a
(05:58):
weapon, and then hank is like,get him away from me, like I, I
don't think that, actually, i'tknow, I'm not sure that that
would in fact be I mean, like inseason I know we've talked
about this before, but in seasonone, like the lifelong atheist
saw the wings and then felt hecouldn't live without them and
they were detached from theangel.
(06:21):
So like actually on the angeleven a jackass I think would
have would be like on theirknees, crying like forgive me,
forgive me, right, I don't knowthat.
That felt a little.
I mean it was it was moresatisfying to have him, just
they did well, he was terrifiedbut also repulsed.
(06:42):
Yeah, yeah, I'm just not surerepulsion is accurate.
Well, I'm wondering if there'syou know to overthink it right,
because that's what, that's howwe do that's what we do, uh-huh,
um, I'm wondering if there issomething to it depends on who
the person is.
So that lifelong atheist who waslike um Carmen was the uh
(07:09):
character's name.
I don't know why.
I remember that, um, but I, Iand I'd love that actor, that
character actor, but perhapsthere was something within him
because he did trade inreligious, yeah, um, so maybe he
was actually looking for thereal thing in the way that, like
, houdini was constantly, yes,revealing frauds because he
really really wanted it to betrue, leave it, yeah, um,
(07:32):
whereas, and then this guy uhwas not all religious, um, and
to the point where he washorrified that his fiance would
choose the life of a nun overtheir, their life together, um,
and like, had no concept of whatthat could mean, where that
(07:55):
come from.
So, yeah, that that that asks,uh, us as the viewers to do a
heck of a lot of heavy lifting.
I could see that as being partof it, part of the cosmology,
yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe.
So Amenadiel's epiphany,specifically about Chloe, that
Chloe is not the gift, but thefact that she can see Lucifer
(08:17):
she does not see her own desirereflected back is the gift.
It's so beautiful and I love itthat it comes from a minute
deal.
I don't know why that.
I find that exceedinglysatisfying that that was that
that's a minute deal's role tolike, help comfort her somehow.
Yeah, well, and also hisability to see, like all the
(08:45):
noise fade away and just see the, the reality, the, the like,
the beauty of the gift in a waythat I mean, in some ways it's,
I feel like reflects the factthat he is god's favorite,
favorite son and had been god'sright hand, and and he was
saying like I wish I had beenmore curious when I fulfilled
(09:06):
that purpose, but in some wayshe didn't necessarily have to be
because he figured it out, likehe was close enough that he
could be like, wait a minute, Ithink I can see how, like, what
the mysterious ways are Like.
If you finish that sentence, Ithink you were in a mysterious
way.
That was awesome.
That's such a great line, um,and the fact that amenadiel, in
(09:31):
addition to the gift, also thefact that he chooses that
lucifer chooses to be evil, yes,yes, his understanding of that,
yeah, like the fact that he,that amenadiel, gave us that as
well, and even like lucifer'slike that's oh, like that moment
(09:52):
was just so lovely it's also.
I like that.
That also feels like howrealizations can go, where, like
you've got something that isjust a fundamental part, belief
of who you are, and then, likethe moment you get it challenged
, like, yeah, I can let go ofthat.
(10:13):
I do want to talk about hey.
You and I both were verydissatisfied with the fact that
amenadiel was like I heard dad'svoicing oh yeah, Hell doesn't
need caretaker anymore.
And when this season originallycame out, I remember you and I
talking about this is also theepisode in which Lilith dies,
(10:38):
and so or she dies the next one,right?
No this one and um, and so we'relike, oh, this would be really
excellent like storytelling, ifthe reason why Hell no longer
needs a caretaker is because allthe demons, the mother of all
the demons, is now there andthey'll, they'll, heed her.
(10:58):
And that's not what they did.
And I understand, because therewere other things that went
along with that in, like seasonsix, like we'll get to where
Lucifer is offering to Maze tobe the queen of hell, and things
like that.
That would not necessarily havebeen in place if Lilith were
(11:19):
there.
And then there's also the factthat Maze feels like, okay, well
, lilith is gone, I can neverspeak to her again, which is
very odd.
I don't know.
I don't get that Like animmortal demon, like the death
of a mortal is just.
It's not the end, and we knowthat.
And I used to suggest thatmaybe Lilith doesn't have a soul
, since Maze doesn't, but shewas created at the same time as
(11:44):
Adam.
So if Adam has a soul, then whywouldn't Lilith?
Yeah, unless God took it backwhich.
I, or unless Lilith is in heaven, but that seems unlikely.
Yeah, it doesn't seem like mazewould think she'd be in hell,
yeah, yeah.
So the only thing I wasthinking is that if maybe her
(12:07):
death is kind of like howUriel's death was Except Uriel,
oh, but Uriel was killed by thesword, the flaming sword,
azrael's sword, that just winksyou out of existence, yeah, but
you know, maybe something to dowith mortality.
Maybe Lilith is in heavenheaven, not because of her good
behavior, but because she wascrafted by God's hand.
(12:29):
Hmm, it's like Adam doesn'tbelong, based on what we know in
the future.
In the future about Adam, yeah,and Eve doesn't either, based
on what we already know.
She didn't belong there, butshe was crafted by God's hand.
(12:49):
So maybe Lilith is in heaven,and that's gotta be
uncomfortable.
Yeah, it's like that.
One person at Thanksgiving,yeah, heaven, and that's gotta
be uncomfortable.
Yeah, it's like that.
One person at Thanksgiving,yeah, there's.
Oh, also, there was a.
This is well, I can save thisfor fluff actually.
Okay, all right, save the fluff.
(13:10):
I do want to talk about the Bstory of Linda and Adriana, her
daughter.
She gave up.
Is that in the second?
It's in second.
Then this one.
Wow, they shoved a lot intothis episode, really did.
And this is also when it's nolonger on fox, so they don't
have to like keep it to a tight40, 43 or 44 minutes.
So I think this one was like 55minutes long.
(13:33):
But I really appreciate theminute that maize understands
what's going on.
She goes out and finds her Likecause, we don't know that
that's what's happening.
Yeah, she's just pissed off andcan't be in the same room with
Linda anymore.
Yeah, and so when Linda'stelling her like I think about
her every day, I hope she's okay, I, you know, I'm amazed that
(13:55):
she sees things yeah, like yeah,I mean, mesa's an amazing
bounty hunter, and like it'samazing because I'm thinking
like all she knows is Linda'sname.
So Linda Martin was 17.
And presumably Linda's alwayslived in Los Angeles, so she
(14:18):
probably knows more aboutLinda's life history than we do.
But still, like that'simpressive because it's not a
lot of information to be, ableto track a baby down.
It was now like in early 20s, Ithink.
In early 20s, I think.
I have to say I'm very like.
(14:38):
I really feel when this storylike the idea of having a baby
at 17 and just feeling likecouldn't handle it and just
running away and regretting itforever and constantly thinking
that that's your own way to hellbecause of it yeah, and then
also I appreciated that Maze wasyour way to hell because of it.
(15:00):
Yeah, and then also Iappreciated that Maze was like
you need to tell her.
And then but Linda had a verygood point in the like it needs
to be her decision and Mazefound a way for her to be like
you can open the door so thatshe can come to it yeah, that
was lovely.
That was really really nice,Especially since Maze was in the
(15:23):
other position.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
You know so like I feel this way sometimes with my
kids, in that I'm the youngestof the two of us.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I know.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
I have two kids.
Always this news to you.
So us, I know I have two kids.
Oh, is this news to you.
I think them know, so you arewell aware, because you were
there.
you had no interest in me.
Daddy was nurse, that's right,that's right.
I was dressed in scrums orsomething anyway Anyway, and I
(15:58):
am not a big believer in likeyour birth order determines your
fate, but I definitely did feelthere are things about my
personality that I think arerelated to the fact that I am
both your younger sister andwired to be kind of a hero
worshipper, so like if I were adifferent person as your younger
(16:20):
sister, I think things would bea little different.
Then I have two kids, and myeldest you know that too my
eldest I call my mini me,because he takes after me in so
many ways except that he's myeldest.
And then my youngest takesafter my husband so much, except
(16:40):
that he's the youngest, and myhusband's the eldest too.
So there are times where I cansee where my eldest is coming
from because he's so similar tome, and then at the same time I
feel what my youngest is feeling.
I feel what my youngest isfeeling, and so I kind of saw a
(17:06):
reflection of that in May's andLinda's discourse, because May's
knew what it felt like to bethe daughter who was abandoned,
and Linda, who is so empatheticand loves May so much, was the
one who didn't know how torelate to that, even though
because she was the mother.
So anyway, I just found thatvery interesting and I love
their relationship.
(17:26):
And amazing linda.
Yeah, yeah, they're, they'reawesome and amazing girlfriend
goals.
Yeah, for reals, I'm justimagining if I told Erica
something and she came backthree hours later like I found
your person Bounty hunted.
Actually, I would watch thatmovie.
(17:47):
My friend Erica is a priest andso if she were a bounty hunter
priest, that would be awesomeNew book idea.
That would be a great book.
Let's talk about Blue Balls.
Let's talk about Blue Balls.
That would be awesome New bookidea.
That would be a great book.
All right, let's talk aboutblue balls.
Let's talk about blue balls.
I hate that episode, except forthe last like five minutes.
Last five minutes.
I have like you can't wear outthe tape on Netflix, but I have
(18:11):
worn out the tape.
Worn out the tape.
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty sexy.
Oh my God, all right, yeah,it's pretty sexy.
Oh my god, alright.
So in this episode, dj diesfrom electrocution and it was,
it should have been.
The actual target was Chloe'sex, whose name I've forgotten
(18:35):
already Jed.
No, he's DJ Carnal.
No, jed, already Jed.
No, he's DJ Carnal.
No, jed, jed, jed.
That's it.
Yeah, so I, okay, this isbasically fluff, but okay, I can
see that he is handsome, like Ican see that, but his tiny
little button nose, it's just sosmall and it's just like ew, no
(18:58):
, no, like I kind of am reminded.
So another friend of mine, thisis years ago.
Do you remember that TV show,joe Millionaire from like the
early 2000s?
It was a terrible reality.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
TV show.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Anyway, the guy on it , whose name I don't remember,
was very much my type and Iremember and so I watched this
horrible television show becausethe guy was very much my type,
even though he was not a goodperson, and the show was awful,
but I watched the whole thinggetting done.
I remember talking to my friendMegan about it and she said
(19:34):
when I was like oh my God, he'sso handsome.
She's like everything's in theright place.
That's why I failed the budget.
My apologies to the actor.
I'm sure he's a lovely person.
I'm sure it doesn't matter toyou that I don't find you
attractive.
But, oh my God, what's wrongwith your nose?
It's so small.
How do you breathe through it?
There's not enough.
So this episode is another oneof those.
(19:59):
Like you know, like Lucifer hasADHD and he's titled, he gets
hyper-focused, and so this oneis.
He's hyper-focused on Jed andlike what went wrong with Jed
and Chloe and he's going toavoid that same mistake and it
just doesn't work.
Like, don't believe it.
(20:20):
Like the whole thing, I don'tbelieve it.
I will say, watching it thistime around, it felt like it
worked better this watching itthis time around, just because
his feelings were so hurt whenshe said that yeah yeah, um, and
(20:42):
so he immediately goes intolike okay, what's going wrong,
what's wrong, what's wrong yeahum, and then latching on to,
because he is wearing his hearton his sleeve, latching on to,
oh, okay, so I'm not beingserious enough, right, because
that was like because they hadjust gotten together and then
(21:02):
he's like puffed up for whatChloe's going to answer, yeah,
but it is still also like itfelt a little.
I felt a little manipulated inthe way that Lucifer feels
manipulated at the end, causethey I feel like the writers
were like, okay, so we have tohave Michael get Lucifer's phone
(21:24):
.
How are we going to do that?
Oh, let's have him throw it outthe window.
Why is he throwing out thewindow?
You know, like it just feltlike they were working backward
from needing Michael to haveLucifer's phone so that Dan
would see Lucifer's devil's face.
And I don't know.
I just didn't quite believe it.
I mean, for one thing, I don'tknow, I've never been to LA, but
(21:45):
I can't imagine having a windowwithout a screen.
Like, are there bugs in LA?
I don't know.
I don't know either.
Yeah, there's a lot ofhand-waving about LA that I need
to just accept.
We'd have been there 20 minutesearlier if you hadn't stopped
(22:05):
for a wardrobe change.
That was a couple seasons ago.
It's like, I'm sorry, what Iknow about LA traffic.
That might be possible at 2 am20 minutes, though how long does
it take him to actually changean hour anyway?
Um, let alone the trafficanyway, yeah, yeah, so that
(22:28):
piece was like, although, on theother hand, like they have been
, they, they set us up thatCharlie likes funny faces,
because that was his first laughwhen Trixie made funny faces.
Exactly, exactly, so, so goodon you for that.
Yeah, oh, should this be fluff,or should we talk about the
(22:49):
wardrobe changes?
It bothered you.
Oh, we can talk about thewardrobe changes.
Yeah, so, cause, that was, itwas interesting, right, so they
were wearing the same clothes,like they, they.
They get to the murder scene ofthe rave on the beach and
they're wearing one set ofclothes.
And he's in an overnight yeah,she says, cause she says it
(23:10):
could be all night, and then thesun is up.
He's wearing a black suit witha white shirt and she's wearing
like, like a leather jacket, zipup suede jacket.
I feel like it's something likeblue underneath, and then
they're walking together andhe's wearing a brown suit.
Oh no, no, not quite yet.
So they get back to the station.
(23:32):
First thing he notices theirhair is different.
Oh yeah, I noticed her hair wasdifferent because she had like
a little bang and then she hadit pulled all the way back.
Same clothes, though, sameclothes, and then they are going
to DJ Colonel's studio.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And when they get there, they're both wearing
different clothes, right, buther hair is still pulled all the
way back.
So I have a potential reasonfor it.
So the hair I wear my hair backall the time and it gets.
No, I don't intentionally dothe bangs because, yeah, so I
(24:10):
could see after all night orfeeling gross and then like,
just like, okay, just puttingher hair back and pulling it all
back.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Because she's been up all night.
So that's why her hair changed.
And then they like, changed andshowered, but they still
arrived together.
I know she doesn't have clothesat his place yet, or vice versa
.
And why did they put him in abrown suit?
Oh my God, and you're right.
And then Ella was wearing thesame thing the whole time.
(24:39):
So, and why the brown suit?
It's so ugly.
And then that's the suit he'swearing at the end for the like
the best five minutes oftelevision ever.
Well, but at least the lightingis such.
He also has the jacket off, soit it's really just like the
vest and the shirt, whichbothers me less.
For some reason, brown's justnot his color.
(25:01):
Yeah, so I mean not that he'sanything less than handsome, but
Although, when he's you said,when you see him as Michael With
the turtleneck, you're like,yeah, I question the costumer's
choice in the brown suit, butputting him in the turtleneck as
Michael, perfect, spot on, spoton, yep, yep, yeah, so, um, I
(25:30):
also have.
I've wondered a little bit, Idon't know.
There's the um.
I always hate it in long-runningTV shows where there is an ex
that they introduce that hasnever been mentioned before.
I feel like they did areasonably good job with it
because they had because of DanDan being like, yeah, I got good
(25:54):
at this when I had a baby withChloe.
That was pretty awesome, but Ialways hate that because it's
just like you introduce this andthen.
But I also found myself feelinglike, you know, in some ways I
don't know who wrote thisepisode, but in some ways there
is this like oh yeah, this is myboyfriend from college.
(26:18):
You never got to look at me.
I'll take it after me Because,you know, one of the joys of
being a writer is you get to dothat.
You can, you know, cast anextremely handsome but way too
small nosed man as thatboyfriend.
As that boyfriend yeah, I don'tknow, I actually didn't mind it
(26:42):
.
I I know what you mean Like,when they introduce something
and they're like it's alwaysbeen that, like the fact that
the ring that he's always wornis Willis ring, I was like you
just made that up, which we'remaking it all up, um, this one,
whatever.
Because of the fact that, well,yes, and like because of the
fact that it was so long ago andlike she got married and
(27:05):
divorced in between and whatever, like I bought it and also like
I can't imagine my collegeboyfriend naming a foundation
after me and me not knowing.
Yeah, I mean it me not knowing.
Yeah, I mean it's not calledthe Chloe, you know what it was
his nickname for her.
But still, like, I like I don'tstalk him, but you know
(27:28):
Facebook is a thing, and like atleast once a decade, I'm like,
oh, I wonder what he's up to,now you know.
And like Google stalks, I meannow you know.
And like google stocks, I meanonly once a decade, don't, don't
worry, she's got an alert.
Just saying I would know if youhad a foundation after me.
Okay, we have some, some mutualacquaintances and friends.
(27:55):
Yeah, I mean, she did go in acompletely different direction
because they knew each otherwhen she was still acting Right,
but you know she hasn't lostall touch with everyone Life,
presumably, I don't know.
I mean a couple of seasons ago,when Lucifer was like, name
three people you could call togo out for a drink with and you
can't name me, your child or theman you're divorcing, divorcing
(28:20):
and she like couldn't.
So true, she is.
She's a bit of a workaholic, so, which is when you're addicted
to workahol sorry, I'm veryweird.
The other thing that Iappreciated in this and we were
talking a little bit about thisbefore we started recording the
scene between Dan and Amenadiel,where Dan is trying to teach
(28:41):
Amenadiel how to swaddle using acorkscrew, which I'm like that
doesn't Better practice on thecat Corkscrew and a cocktail man
yeah, it's interesting becauseof all the things that Dan
(29:03):
thinks little of himself, heknows he's a good dad.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
And does not question that at all, and I find that
kind of like not refreshing.
But that's Endearing.
It's endearing.
It's.
Also we so often have theopposite in so many depictions
of media where like I'm acommanding person who can do
(29:29):
anything in the boardroom, butlike, oh my god, it's a baby.
What do I do?
Um, and so like that's, that'skind of cool, that it's like the
reversal of the trope, and italso fits kind of with the,
because you know he's divorcedfrom his wife, so so like that
you can feel a little weirdabout that.
He really, really screwed up inhis job.
(29:53):
As a cop, as a cop, yeah, andthen he lost Charlotte, yeah,
and Charlotte died, which youknow.
Obviously, like that grief issomething that you know he's
never really going to get, soit's it is completely
understandable that he feelsfully competent as a dad in a
(30:17):
way that he doesn't feel inother parts of his life.
But I also really appreciatethat, especially since he's a
dad of a daughter and so it's ait's like because another thing,
like even guys who are like ohyeah, I know how to father my
sons, but like, oh, my goodness,what about tea parties?
What do I do, you know?
So that was just endearing andit's also really interesting.
(30:37):
Like we've got this mortalwho's letting an angel, God's
right hand, know that he'llfigure it out with his parenting
, and something like that, whichmakes sense within the you know
cosmology of the show, because,uh, like then well, there's
never been an angel babies yeah,um, but at the same time is
(30:59):
also like just reallyfascinating.
But there is something that's ahuman I could teach an angel
yeah, also an angel and a demon,I'm excuse me, a human and a
demon.
I'm thinking about maze andella in this, in this episode,
where maze decides to try andemulate ella and then that
(31:22):
there's like two moments whereElla's like why would you
emulate me?
I attract losers.
And Maze is like, yeah, if allyou think you deserve is a loser
like that, then I should lookto somebody else.
And then Ella's saying you know, just be you and you'll find
your soulmate.
And Maze says you have to havea soul to have a soulmate.
(31:43):
Be you and you'll find yoursoulmate.
And they says you have to havea soul to have a soulmate.
Like both of those moments werelike ouch, yeah, for each of
them in very different ways, butboth from mazes mouth, actually
, like the things that maze wassaying, which is really
interesting, cause she's notbeen given a whole lot of depth.
I feel like so some some maze,but not a a, not a ton which I
(32:12):
mean fits with, like she wascreative to be part of an army,
you know, and I.
It's interesting.
Like I'm not a big fan of thelike.
Llx, bad boys things.
Yeah, they introduced it.
I'm not a big fan of the like.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
LLX bad boys things.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
They introduced it late, it feels like, I mean,
they have been setting it up.
Remember the text of thetattooed penis?
Oh, yeah, ella's like oh, youknow Craig too?
No, I don't know Craig and histattooed penis.
(32:48):
Yeah, well, and there was that,uh, that bald guy that she um,
um hooked up with.
Yeah, at the beginning of theseason.
He was the one that the suspectin um, um, mr, said I'll bitch
his death.
Um, it was this season, though.
Um, it's part of it is likewhat part of my, my?
(33:14):
My issue with it is the factthat, like, I don't think Ella
would believe anyone is like badboy, if you know what I mean,
because she's just so bright andand positive and optimistic
that you know, if she seessomeone who's like a bad boy,
she'd be like what happens youknow, like you know what, what
(33:35):
trauma is is led you down thispath.
Well, maybe that's, I mean,maybe that's what makes them
attractive.
Yes, that she thinks that.
I mean subconsciously, yeah,that she can.
I mean I say this as the personwho grew up with um bender from
breakfast club, beast frombeauty and the beast, and mr
rochester from jane air and likethat is the height of romance.
(33:57):
Um, so maybe there's some ofthat.
Yeah, but sexual, yeah, it justit feels a little off for the
character, yeah, and I guessmaybe it's just because they do
the shortcut of like oh, bad boyalert, and I'm like, is that
how she would have said?
it said it and like yeah, Ithink that's actually what you
(34:18):
have a problem with.
Yeah, not the actual likeattraction, because if she had
said something like oh, I bet Icould help him.
That would make sense to me.
Yeah, I also wouldn't thinkshe'd be like, because if she
had said something like oh, Ibet I could help him.
That would make sense to me.
Yeah, I also wouldn't thinkshe'd be like yeah, I've been
making out with this loser.
Like I, just I don't.
I couldn't see her saying that.
(34:38):
Like you know, I've beenhelping this guy with my tongue.
We both had the same reactionwhen we saw Pete yeah, which,
because when I first saw this,but then I didn't know what was
coming, I was like he is a cutie, oh my goodness.
And the awkward.
Yeah, the awkward child, yeah,but on rewatch it's like oh yeah
(35:00):
, you, you stay away, I'll stayaway.
But I also feel like, if it islike, what trauma is there?
Like her attraction to him andto Carol later on is about them
having some brokenness.
You know cause, and part ofwhat was tough for her with Pete
(35:24):
is he's hiding it really well.
Yeah, well, we've been talkingfor almost 40 minutes, so
perhaps we should transition tofluff.
I love fluff.
There's something that I hadfrom earlier.
When we were talking, I said Iwould save it for fluff well I
(35:44):
will say during detectiveamenadiel, in that last scene,
when they kiss at the piano, yousaid to me his nose is so long
it hits her face before his lipstoo.
I'm like and that's what I'mtalking about it does he like
(36:06):
it's her.
I think that would make betterfor aiming you know, if you had
your eyes closed, I guess, likewhat would you just be like
teaching Clark, well, you can'tdo anything.
It's so weird.
I just feel like he's liplesstoo.
(36:34):
It's just.
I just I really wish I couldremember what it was that I
wanted to share with you.
So there's also the scene where,uh, chloe is like like starting
to freak out, like, oh gosh,what if I don't measure up?
Yeah, and linda's like, well,it, it's perfect, it's not like
forked or anything.
And then it's always like, oh,it's not okay.
She was like great, oh, my god,what.
(36:56):
I also I loved the.
Uh, the moment where uh, dancomes to help a man, a deal, and
dan's like what happened?
Linda just handed me the babyand ran out.
What did you say to her?
The same thing, you did, thatit was okay, that she was
completely screwed.
Oh, now I hear it.
I hear it now.
Yeah, I am impressed that shewas like okay, have the baby,
(37:24):
I'm gonna go glitter myself upand go to a rave, because I
would be like have the, I'mchecking into a place with
really nice sheets and I'm goingto sleep for a week and you're
paying for it.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yeah, that's what I would have done.
What were we talking about whenI said I would save it?
Was it?
Was it Cherry Jean?
No, I guess the fluffiest fluffof all fluff that has ever
fluffed.
Can we talk about the past fiveminutes?
Yeah, there's like some gifsonline Just goes and her knee
(37:57):
kind of like flops over.
Yeah, it's really hot.
Yeah, oh, my goodness.
Well, there's the like she'sgoing to leave and like they
don't say anything and they justlike yeah, they both turn
around to look at one another.
Yeah, yeah, it's just like, yeah, you're not leaving.
That's really hot, oh my God.
(38:21):
Well, and when he buffers hishand?
and like, like, like this.
Yeah, then she'd say I'm a wordperson, I word, therefore I.
I am incapable of wording rightnow.
That's not a verb.
Anything can be a verb inenglish, just like anything can
(38:46):
be a verb in English, just likeanything can be an adjective in
French, or no, anything can bean adjective in French.
See, I word.
I word well in more than onelanguage.
I really wish I could read youI'm sad that you can't remember.
I'm going to cut out all this.
Are you sure you're going tocut out all this?
My wording is very good.
(39:08):
Tracy can't remember her fluff.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
I'm telling her that she should, when she remembers
it, record it just herself.
So if you see that bonuscontent after this, that's what
happened, because we need toknow what the fluff was.
I know, I mean what the fluff.
We need the fluff.
I don't know.
I bet it was the fluffiestfluff that ever fluffed.
It was Fluffy McFlufferson.
(39:33):
It was Fluffy McGee,fluffington McFluffers.
It's hard getting old, it is.
It's better than thealternative.
Oh, yes, I definitely agreewith that.
But yeah, getting old, it'sweird.
Yeah, all right, well, I won'tsay yes to you next week, but
(39:53):
I'll see you next time.
I'll see you next time.
We probably won't be next toeach other next time.
No, well, our boxes, yes, ourboxes.
See you next time.
See you next time, all righty'all.
It's been over a week, but Ifinally remembered my fluff.
When Amenadiel tells Luciferthat he heard a voice in hell
(40:14):
that he never expected to hearin hell, and Lucifer's trying to
guess who the voice is, one ofthe names he offers is Mr Rogers
, and I just don't believe it.
I do not believe it, eventhough I know it's your own
feelings of guilt that wouldsend you there.
And, of course, mr Rogers, likeall of us.
I'm sure he was subject to somefeelings of inadequacy and also
(40:38):
in my mind, the man was a saint.
So that was it.
That was my fluff.
See you next time.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Our theme song is Feral Angel Waltz by Kevin
MacLeod from Incompetechcom,licensed under Creative Commons
by Attribution 4.0 License.
Visit the show notes for theURL.
I am an artificially generatedvoice powered by Narrakeetcom.
Lucifer is a Warner Brothersproduction that first aired on
(41:11):
Fox and then Netflix.
Tracy and Emily are notaffiliated with Fox, netflix nor
WB.
If you liked this episode,subscribe to keep overthinking
with them and visit the shownotes for other ways to connect.
Tracy and Emily are smart, lovable sisters who
really love Lucifer for the plotyeah, the plot which they
overthink.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hi, I'm here with my sister, emily Guy-Burken.
She does not use a hyphen.
And I'm here, actually here,with my sister, tracy Guy-Decker
, and she does use a hyphen.
That's true.
And together we areLightbringers where we
illuminate the deeper meaning ofthe crime-solving devil TV show
.
And, yes, we're overthinking it, so much overthinking, yeah,
(00:42):
and today we're talking aboutepisodes 505 and 506, detective
Amenadiel and Blue Balls with aZ, but just one Z, despite how
Tracy just announced it.
That's how Ella says it.
Yes, to let Lucifer know thatshe's not referring to yeah,
yeah, you have children in theother room.
(01:05):
You gotta be careful.
Oh, um, this is actually thefirst time we've ever, uh,
watched together, which is kindof cool.
It was so fun.
Yeah, so, okay.
So we'll start at the beginningwith detective Amenadiel, which
you were saying is one of,except for the final scene.
No, that's Blue Balls, no, it'sBlue Balls.
(01:25):
So Detective Amenadiel is theone that takes place mostly in a
convent, the case of the week.
The body was that of anun-to-be yes, a novitiate, I
think is the word Novitiate Anovice, kind of Latin-y.
She was about to take orders.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
(01:47):
So let's talk about this one,because I think it actually like
this case in the week actuallygives us a number of kind of
like cosmological things thatare sort of interesting.
Yeah, so I do.
I have to say I reallyappreciate chloe is saying to I
believe it's a menadeal, itmight be, it might be Lucifer,
(02:08):
where she's like I just, I justwant to work, I don't want to
deal with anything celestial andshe shows up and it's a convent
.
It's just like hilarious.
Yeah, you know, I don't knowwho the director was.
I remember noticing it and thenI've totally forgotten it since
we watched.
(02:28):
But there were some interestingdirectorial choices, like when
she enters the convent and thecamera like springs upside down
so she's walking in, like on thetop of the frame, which, like I
don't know, I guess StrangerThings has me thinking about,
like the upside down andwhatever.
Well, it got me thinking aboutthe fact that, like satanists,
(02:51):
like the ones we saw in thefirst season, turn the cross
upside down.
Um, and even though that's notreally supported by any aspect
of like within this world ofLucifer, nor is it, it's not
(03:15):
meaningful in any way as its own, like kind of theology, it's a
reaction to Christianity, right,right, right, which is kind of
interesting and maybespecifically for Chloe at this
moment.
Yeah, there's also.
Well, this director had a lotof like reflections too.
I feel like we looked at a lotof like of them on the piano at
(03:38):
the end.
We sort of see them double.
Yeah, that's true.
And then also at the very end,like it comes up to the ceiling,
like he has that light fixturethat's like a tree, yeah, and
then it's like the reflection ofthat, yeah, which is actually
now right side up.
Yeah, we spent a lot of timewith that light fixture actually
.
Yeah, it was important in thatfinal scene of season four and
(04:00):
now that I'm saying it out loud,actually reflecting is
significant for this episode,right, because that is the
epiphany that Amenadiel has isthat he is reflecting back at
people their love of God, whichis why the nuns feel so drawn to
him, because her religiousfervor is fake, and also it
(04:31):
explains Lucifer's appeal,because he reflects people's
desire back at them.
So I guess initially I was like, oh, he just likes playing with
reflections, but now that I'mtalking out loud, it actually
does have some metaphor.
Yeah, it's a nice through line,yeah, so that's kind of
interesting.
(04:53):
I will say I felt like I mean,this is one of those things
where sometimes you'll dosomething that works for the
story but doesn't work for thecharacter, or works for the
character but doesn't work forthe character, or the character
but doesn't work for the story.
In this case, the way thatchloe was kind of rude to the
nuns worked for the story.
That did not work for hercharacter.
(05:14):
Yeah, she's always professional.
Yeah, um, and, and part of itis it's because it's usually
lucifer is the one who's beingcompletely unprofessional and
making it about him, and theywanted to do that for the story,
but it just felt odd.
(05:36):
You know, on that same sort ofvein, at the end, when Hank,
when Menad, a deal reveals I'mputting air quotes around that
reveals himself or exposeshimself, that's the word.
Uh, it's supposed to exposemyself to nuts.
When he exposes himself to hankand like uses the wings as a
(05:58):
weapon, and then hank is like,get him away from me, like I, I
don't think that, actually, i'tknow, I'm not sure that that
would in fact be I mean, like inseason I know we've talked
about this before, but in seasonone, like the lifelong atheist
saw the wings and then felt hecouldn't live without them and
they were detached from theangel.
(06:21):
So like actually on the angeleven a jackass I think would
have would be like on theirknees, crying like forgive me,
forgive me, right, I don't knowthat.
That felt a little.
I mean it was it was moresatisfying to have him, just
they did well, he was terrifiedbut also repulsed.
(06:42):
Yeah, yeah, I'm just not surerepulsion is accurate.
Well, I'm wondering if there'syou know to overthink it right,
because that's what, that's howwe do that's what we do, uh-huh,
um, I'm wondering if there issomething to it depends on who
the person is.
So that lifelong atheist who waslike um Carmen was the uh
(07:09):
character's name.
I don't know why.
I remember that, um, but I, Iand I'd love that actor, that
character actor, but perhapsthere was something within him
because he did trade inreligious, yeah, um, so maybe he
was actually looking for thereal thing in the way that, like
, houdini was constantly, yes,revealing frauds because he
really really wanted it to betrue, leave it, yeah, um,
(07:32):
whereas, and then this guy uhwas not all religious, um, and
to the point where he washorrified that his fiance would
choose the life of a nun overtheir, their life together, um,
and like, had no concept of whatthat could mean, where that
(07:55):
come from.
So, yeah, that that that asks,uh, us as the viewers to do a
heck of a lot of heavy lifting.
I could see that as being partof it, part of the cosmology,
yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe.
So Amenadiel's epiphany,specifically about Chloe, that
Chloe is not the gift, but thefact that she can see Lucifer
(08:17):
she does not see her own desirereflected back is the gift.
It's so beautiful and I love itthat it comes from a minute
deal.
I don't know why that.
I find that exceedinglysatisfying that that was that
that's a minute deal's role tolike, help comfort her somehow.
Yeah, well, and also hisability to see, like all the
(08:45):
noise fade away and just see the, the reality, the, the like,
the beauty of the gift in a waythat I mean, in some ways it's,
I feel like reflects the factthat he is god's favorite,
favorite son and had been god'sright hand, and and he was
saying like I wish I had beenmore curious when I fulfilled
(09:06):
that purpose, but in some wayshe didn't necessarily have to be
because he figured it out, likehe was close enough that he
could be like, wait a minute, Ithink I can see how, like, what
the mysterious ways are Like.
If you finish that sentence, Ithink you were in a mysterious
way.
That was awesome.
That's such a great line, um,and the fact that amenadiel, in
(09:31):
addition to the gift, also thefact that he chooses that
lucifer chooses to be evil, yes,yes, his understanding of that,
yeah, like the fact that he,that amenadiel, gave us that as
well, and even like lucifer'slike that's oh, like that moment
(09:52):
was just so lovely it's also.
I like that.
That also feels like howrealizations can go, where, like
you've got something that isjust a fundamental part, belief
of who you are, and then, likethe moment you get it challenged
, like, yeah, I can let go ofthat.
(10:13):
I do want to talk about hey.
You and I both were verydissatisfied with the fact that
amenadiel was like I heard dad'svoicing oh yeah, Hell doesn't
need caretaker anymore.
And when this season originallycame out, I remember you and I
talking about this is also theepisode in which Lilith dies,
(10:38):
and so or she dies the next one,right?
No this one and um, and so we'relike, oh, this would be really
excellent like storytelling, ifthe reason why Hell no longer
needs a caretaker is because allthe demons, the mother of all
the demons, is now there andthey'll, they'll, heed her.
(10:58):
And that's not what they did.
And I understand, because therewere other things that went
along with that in, like seasonsix, like we'll get to where
Lucifer is offering to Maze tobe the queen of hell, and things
like that.
That would not necessarily havebeen in place if Lilith were
(11:19):
there.
And then there's also the factthat Maze feels like, okay, well
, lilith is gone, I can neverspeak to her again, which is
very odd.
I don't know.
I don't get that Like animmortal demon, like the death
of a mortal is just.
It's not the end, and we knowthat.
And I used to suggest thatmaybe Lilith doesn't have a soul
, since Maze doesn't, but shewas created at the same time as
(11:44):
Adam.
So if Adam has a soul, then whywouldn't Lilith?
Yeah, unless God took it backwhich.
I, or unless Lilith is in heaven, but that seems unlikely.
Yeah, it doesn't seem like mazewould think she'd be in hell,
yeah, yeah.
So the only thing I wasthinking is that if maybe her
(12:07):
death is kind of like howUriel's death was Except Uriel,
oh, but Uriel was killed by thesword, the flaming sword,
azrael's sword, that just winksyou out of existence, yeah, but
you know, maybe something to dowith mortality.
Maybe Lilith is in heavenheaven, not because of her good
behavior, but because she wascrafted by God's hand.
(12:29):
Hmm, it's like Adam doesn'tbelong, based on what we know in
the future.
In the future about Adam, yeah,and Eve doesn't either, based
on what we already know.
She didn't belong there, butshe was crafted by God's hand.
(12:49):
So maybe Lilith is in heaven,and that's gotta be
uncomfortable.
Yeah, it's like that.
One person at Thanksgiving,yeah, heaven, and that's gotta
be uncomfortable.
Yeah, it's like that.
One person at Thanksgiving,yeah, there's.
Oh, also, there was a.
This is well, I can save thisfor fluff actually.
Okay, all right, save the fluff.
(13:10):
I do want to talk about the Bstory of Linda and Adriana, her
daughter.
She gave up.
Is that in the second?
It's in second.
Then this one.
Wow, they shoved a lot intothis episode, really did.
And this is also when it's nolonger on fox, so they don't
have to like keep it to a tight40, 43 or 44 minutes.
So I think this one was like 55minutes long.
(13:33):
But I really appreciate theminute that maize understands
what's going on.
She goes out and finds her Likecause, we don't know that
that's what's happening.
Yeah, she's just pissed off andcan't be in the same room with
Linda anymore.
Yeah, and so when Linda'stelling her like I think about
her every day, I hope she's okay, I, you know, I'm amazed that
(13:55):
she sees things yeah, like yeah,I mean, mesa's an amazing
bounty hunter, and like it'samazing because I'm thinking
like all she knows is Linda'sname.
So Linda Martin was 17.
And presumably Linda's alwayslived in Los Angeles, so she
(14:18):
probably knows more aboutLinda's life history than we do.
But still, like that'simpressive because it's not a
lot of information to be, ableto track a baby down.
It was now like in early 20s, Ithink.
In early 20s, I think.
I have to say I'm very like.
(14:38):
I really feel when this storylike the idea of having a baby
at 17 and just feeling likecouldn't handle it and just
running away and regretting itforever and constantly thinking
that that's your own way to hellbecause of it yeah, and then
also I appreciated that Maze wasyour way to hell because of it.
(15:00):
Yeah, and then also Iappreciated that Maze was like
you need to tell her.
And then but Linda had a verygood point in the like it needs
to be her decision and Mazefound a way for her to be like
you can open the door so thatshe can come to it yeah, that
was lovely.
That was really really nice,Especially since Maze was in the
(15:23):
other position.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
You know so like I feel this way sometimes with my
kids, in that I'm the youngestof the two of us.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I know.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
I have two kids.
Always this news to you.
So us, I know I have two kids.
Oh, is this news to you.
I think them know, so you arewell aware, because you were
there.
you had no interest in me.
Daddy was nurse, that's right,that's right.
I was dressed in scrums orsomething anyway Anyway, and I
(15:58):
am not a big believer in likeyour birth order determines your
fate, but I definitely did feelthere are things about my
personality that I think arerelated to the fact that I am
both your younger sister andwired to be kind of a hero
worshipper, so like if I were adifferent person as your younger
(16:20):
sister, I think things would bea little different.
Then I have two kids, and myeldest you know that too my
eldest I call my mini me,because he takes after me in so
many ways except that he's myeldest.
And then my youngest takesafter my husband so much, except
(16:40):
that he's the youngest, and myhusband's the eldest too.
So there are times where I cansee where my eldest is coming
from because he's so similar tome, and then at the same time I
feel what my youngest is feeling.
I feel what my youngest isfeeling, and so I kind of saw a
(17:06):
reflection of that in May's andLinda's discourse, because May's
knew what it felt like to bethe daughter who was abandoned,
and Linda, who is so empatheticand loves May so much, was the
one who didn't know how torelate to that, even though
because she was the mother.
So anyway, I just found thatvery interesting and I love
their relationship.
(17:26):
And amazing linda.
Yeah, yeah, they're, they'reawesome and amazing girlfriend
goals.
Yeah, for reals, I'm justimagining if I told Erica
something and she came backthree hours later like I found
your person Bounty hunted.
Actually, I would watch thatmovie.
(17:47):
My friend Erica is a priest andso if she were a bounty hunter
priest, that would be awesomeNew book idea.
That would be a great book.
Let's talk about Blue Balls.
Let's talk about Blue Balls.
That would be awesome New bookidea.
That would be a great book.
All right, let's talk aboutblue balls.
Let's talk about blue balls.
I hate that episode, except forthe last like five minutes.
Last five minutes.
I have like you can't wear outthe tape on Netflix, but I have
(18:11):
worn out the tape.
Worn out the tape.
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty sexy.
Oh my God, all right, yeah,it's pretty sexy.
Oh my god, alright.
So in this episode, dj diesfrom electrocution and it was,
it should have been.
The actual target was Chloe'sex, whose name I've forgotten
(18:35):
already Jed.
No, he's DJ Carnal.
No, jed, already Jed.
No, he's DJ Carnal.
No, jed, jed, jed.
That's it.
Yeah, so I, okay, this isbasically fluff, but okay, I can
see that he is handsome, like Ican see that, but his tiny
little button nose, it's just sosmall and it's just like ew, no
(18:58):
, no, like I kind of am reminded.
So another friend of mine, thisis years ago.
Do you remember that TV show,joe Millionaire from like the
early 2000s?
It was a terrible reality.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
TV show.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Anyway, the guy on it , whose name I don't remember,
was very much my type and Iremember and so I watched this
horrible television show becausethe guy was very much my type,
even though he was not a goodperson, and the show was awful,
but I watched the whole thinggetting done.
I remember talking to my friendMegan about it and she said
(19:34):
when I was like oh my God, he'sso handsome.
She's like everything's in theright place.
That's why I failed the budget.
My apologies to the actor.
I'm sure he's a lovely person.
I'm sure it doesn't matter toyou that I don't find you
attractive.
But, oh my God, what's wrongwith your nose?
It's so small.
How do you breathe through it?
There's not enough.
So this episode is another oneof those.
(19:59):
Like you know, like Lucifer hasADHD and he's titled, he gets
hyper-focused, and so this oneis.
He's hyper-focused on Jed andlike what went wrong with Jed
and Chloe and he's going toavoid that same mistake and it
just doesn't work.
Like, don't believe it.
(20:20):
Like the whole thing, I don'tbelieve it.
I will say, watching it thistime around, it felt like it
worked better this watching itthis time around, just because
his feelings were so hurt whenshe said that yeah yeah, um, and
(20:42):
so he immediately goes intolike okay, what's going wrong,
what's wrong, what's wrong yeahum, and then latching on to,
because he is wearing his hearton his sleeve, latching on to,
oh, okay, so I'm not beingserious enough, right, because
that was like because they hadjust gotten together and then
(21:02):
he's like puffed up for whatChloe's going to answer, yeah,
but it is still also like itfelt a little.
I felt a little manipulated inthe way that Lucifer feels
manipulated at the end, causethey I feel like the writers
were like, okay, so we have tohave Michael get Lucifer's phone
(21:24):
.
How are we going to do that?
Oh, let's have him throw it outthe window.
Why is he throwing out thewindow?
You know, like it just feltlike they were working backward
from needing Michael to haveLucifer's phone so that Dan
would see Lucifer's devil's face.
And I don't know.
I just didn't quite believe it.
I mean, for one thing, I don'tknow, I've never been to LA, but
(21:45):
I can't imagine having a windowwithout a screen.
Like, are there bugs in LA?
I don't know.
I don't know either.
Yeah, there's a lot ofhand-waving about LA that I need
to just accept.
We'd have been there 20 minutesearlier if you hadn't stopped
(22:05):
for a wardrobe change.
That was a couple seasons ago.
It's like, I'm sorry, what Iknow about LA traffic.
That might be possible at 2 am20 minutes, though how long does
it take him to actually changean hour anyway?
Um, let alone the trafficanyway, yeah, yeah, so that
(22:28):
piece was like, although, on theother hand, like they have been
, they, they set us up thatCharlie likes funny faces,
because that was his first laughwhen Trixie made funny faces.
Exactly, exactly, so, so goodon you for that.
Yeah, oh, should this be fluff,or should we talk about the
(22:49):
wardrobe changes?
It bothered you.
Oh, we can talk about thewardrobe changes.
Yeah, so, cause, that was, itwas interesting, right, so they
were wearing the same clothes,like they, they.
They get to the murder scene ofthe rave on the beach and
they're wearing one set ofclothes.
And he's in an overnight yeah,she says, cause she says it
(23:10):
could be all night, and then thesun is up.
He's wearing a black suit witha white shirt and she's wearing
like, like a leather jacket, zipup suede jacket.
I feel like it's something likeblue underneath, and then
they're walking together andhe's wearing a brown suit.
Oh no, no, not quite yet.
So they get back to the station.
(23:32):
First thing he notices theirhair is different.
Oh yeah, I noticed her hair wasdifferent because she had like
a little bang and then she hadit pulled all the way back.
Same clothes, though, sameclothes, and then they are going
to DJ Colonel's studio.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And when they get there, they're both wearing
different clothes, right, buther hair is still pulled all the
way back.
So I have a potential reasonfor it.
So the hair I wear my hair backall the time and it gets.
No, I don't intentionally dothe bangs because, yeah, so I
(24:10):
could see after all night orfeeling gross and then like,
just like, okay, just puttingher hair back and pulling it all
back.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Because she's been up all night.
So that's why her hair changed.
And then they like, changed andshowered, but they still
arrived together.
I know she doesn't have clothesat his place yet, or vice versa
.
And why did they put him in abrown suit?
Oh my God, and you're right.
And then Ella was wearing thesame thing the whole time.
(24:39):
So, and why the brown suit?
It's so ugly.
And then that's the suit he'swearing at the end for the like
the best five minutes oftelevision ever.
Well, but at least the lightingis such.
He also has the jacket off, soit it's really just like the
vest and the shirt, whichbothers me less.
For some reason, brown's justnot his color.
(25:01):
Yeah, so I mean not that he'sanything less than handsome, but
Although, when he's you said,when you see him as Michael With
the turtleneck, you're like,yeah, I question the costumer's
choice in the brown suit, butputting him in the turtleneck as
Michael, perfect, spot on, spoton, yep, yep, yeah, so, um, I
(25:30):
also have.
I've wondered a little bit, Idon't know.
There's the um.
I always hate it in long-runningTV shows where there is an ex
that they introduce that hasnever been mentioned before.
I feel like they did areasonably good job with it
because they had because of DanDan being like, yeah, I got good
(25:54):
at this when I had a baby withChloe.
That was pretty awesome, but Ialways hate that because it's
just like you introduce this andthen.
But I also found myself feelinglike, you know, in some ways I
don't know who wrote thisepisode, but in some ways there
is this like oh yeah, this is myboyfriend from college.
(26:18):
You never got to look at me.
I'll take it after me Because,you know, one of the joys of
being a writer is you get to dothat.
You can, you know, cast anextremely handsome but way too
small nosed man as thatboyfriend.
As that boyfriend yeah, I don'tknow, I actually didn't mind it
(26:42):
.
I I know what you mean Like,when they introduce something
and they're like it's alwaysbeen that, like the fact that
the ring that he's always wornis Willis ring, I was like you
just made that up, which we'remaking it all up, um, this one,
whatever.
Because of the fact that, well,yes, and like because of the
fact that it was so long ago andlike she got married and
(27:05):
divorced in between and whatever, like I bought it and also like
I can't imagine my collegeboyfriend naming a foundation
after me and me not knowing.
Yeah, I mean it me not knowing.
Yeah, I mean it's not calledthe Chloe, you know what it was
his nickname for her.
But still, like, I like I don'tstalk him, but you know
(27:28):
Facebook is a thing, and like atleast once a decade, I'm like,
oh, I wonder what he's up to,now you know.
And like Google stalks, I meannow you know.
And like google stocks, I meanonly once a decade, don't, don't
worry, she's got an alert.
Just saying I would know if youhad a foundation after me.
Okay, we have some, some mutualacquaintances and friends.
(27:55):
Yeah, I mean, she did go in acompletely different direction
because they knew each otherwhen she was still acting Right,
but you know she hasn't lostall touch with everyone Life,
presumably, I don't know.
I mean a couple of seasons ago,when Lucifer was like, name
three people you could call togo out for a drink with and you
can't name me, your child or theman you're divorcing, divorcing
(28:20):
and she like couldn't.
So true, she is.
She's a bit of a workaholic, so, which is when you're addicted
to workahol sorry, I'm veryweird.
The other thing that Iappreciated in this and we were
talking a little bit about thisbefore we started recording the
scene between Dan and Amenadiel,where Dan is trying to teach
(28:41):
Amenadiel how to swaddle using acorkscrew, which I'm like that
doesn't Better practice on thecat Corkscrew and a cocktail man
yeah, it's interesting becauseof all the things that Dan
(29:03):
thinks little of himself, heknows he's a good dad.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
And does not question that at all, and I find that
kind of like not refreshing.
But that's Endearing.
It's endearing.
It's.
Also we so often have theopposite in so many depictions
of media where like I'm acommanding person who can do
(29:29):
anything in the boardroom, butlike, oh my god, it's a baby.
What do I do?
Um, and so like that's, that'skind of cool, that it's like the
reversal of the trope, and italso fits kind of with the,
because you know he's divorcedfrom his wife, so so like that
you can feel a little weirdabout that.
He really, really screwed up inhis job.
(29:53):
As a cop, as a cop, yeah, andthen he lost Charlotte, yeah,
and Charlotte died, which youknow.
Obviously, like that grief issomething that you know he's
never really going to get, soit's it is completely
understandable that he feelsfully competent as a dad in a
(30:17):
way that he doesn't feel inother parts of his life.
But I also really appreciatethat, especially since he's a
dad of a daughter and so it's ait's like because another thing,
like even guys who are like ohyeah, I know how to father my
sons, but like, oh, my goodness,what about tea parties?
What do I do, you know?
So that was just endearing andit's also really interesting.
(30:37):
Like we've got this mortalwho's letting an angel, God's
right hand, know that he'llfigure it out with his parenting
, and something like that, whichmakes sense within the you know
cosmology of the show, because,uh, like then well, there's
never been an angel babies yeah,um, but at the same time is
(30:59):
also like just reallyfascinating.
But there is something that's ahuman I could teach an angel
yeah, also an angel and a demon,I'm excuse me, a human and a
demon.
I'm thinking about maze andella in this, in this episode,
where maze decides to try andemulate ella and then that
(31:22):
there's like two moments whereElla's like why would you
emulate me?
I attract losers.
And Maze is like, yeah, if allyou think you deserve is a loser
like that, then I should lookto somebody else.
And then Ella's saying you know, just be you and you'll find
your soulmate.
And Maze says you have to havea soul to have a soulmate.
(31:43):
Be you and you'll find yoursoulmate.
And they says you have to havea soul to have a soulmate.
Like both of those moments werelike ouch, yeah, for each of
them in very different ways, butboth from mazes mouth, actually
, like the things that maze wassaying, which is really
interesting, cause she's notbeen given a whole lot of depth.
I feel like so some some maze,but not a a, not a ton which I
(32:12):
mean fits with, like she wascreative to be part of an army,
you know, and I.
It's interesting.
Like I'm not a big fan of thelike.
Llx, bad boys things.
Yeah, they introduced it.
I'm not a big fan of the like.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
LLX bad boys things.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
They introduced it late, it feels like, I mean,
they have been setting it up.
Remember the text of thetattooed penis?
Oh, yeah, ella's like oh, youknow Craig too?
No, I don't know Craig and histattooed penis.
(32:48):
Yeah, well, and there was that,uh, that bald guy that she um,
um hooked up with.
Yeah, at the beginning of theseason.
He was the one that the suspectin um, um, mr, said I'll bitch
his death.
Um, it was this season, though.
Um, it's part of it is likewhat part of my, my?
(33:14):
My issue with it is the factthat, like, I don't think Ella
would believe anyone is like badboy, if you know what I mean,
because she's just so bright andand positive and optimistic
that you know, if she seessomeone who's like a bad boy,
she'd be like what happens youknow, like you know what, what
(33:35):
trauma is is led you down thispath.
Well, maybe that's, I mean,maybe that's what makes them
attractive.
Yes, that she thinks that.
I mean subconsciously, yeah,that she can.
I mean I say this as the personwho grew up with um bender from
breakfast club, beast frombeauty and the beast, and mr
rochester from jane air and likethat is the height of romance.
(33:57):
Um, so maybe there's some ofthat.
Yeah, but sexual, yeah, it justit feels a little off for the
character, yeah, and I guessmaybe it's just because they do
the shortcut of like oh, bad boyalert, and I'm like, is that
how she would have said?
it said it and like yeah, Ithink that's actually what you
(34:18):
have a problem with.
Yeah, not the actual likeattraction, because if she had
said something like oh, I bet Icould help him.
That would make sense to me.
Yeah, I also wouldn't thinkshe'd be like, because if she
had said something like oh, Ibet I could help him.
That would make sense to me.
Yeah, I also wouldn't thinkshe'd be like yeah, I've been
making out with this loser.
Like I, just I don't.
I couldn't see her saying that.
(34:38):
Like you know, I've beenhelping this guy with my tongue.
We both had the same reactionwhen we saw Pete yeah, which,
because when I first saw this,but then I didn't know what was
coming, I was like he is a cutie, oh my goodness.
And the awkward.
Yeah, the awkward child, yeah,but on rewatch it's like oh yeah
(35:00):
, you, you stay away, I'll stayaway.
But I also feel like, if it islike, what trauma is there?
Like her attraction to him andto Carol later on is about them
having some brokenness.
You know cause, and part ofwhat was tough for her with Pete
(35:24):
is he's hiding it really well.
Yeah, well, we've been talkingfor almost 40 minutes, so
perhaps we should transition tofluff.
I love fluff.
There's something that I hadfrom earlier.
When we were talking, I said Iwould save it for fluff well I
(35:44):
will say during detectiveamenadiel, in that last scene,
when they kiss at the piano, yousaid to me his nose is so long
it hits her face before his lipstoo.
I'm like and that's what I'mtalking about it does he like
(36:06):
it's her.
I think that would make betterfor aiming you know, if you had
your eyes closed, I guess, likewhat would you just be like
teaching Clark, well, you can'tdo anything.
It's so weird.
I just feel like he's liplesstoo.
(36:34):
It's just.
I just I really wish I couldremember what it was that I
wanted to share with you.
So there's also the scene where,uh, chloe is like like starting
to freak out, like, oh gosh,what if I don't measure up?
Yeah, and linda's like, well,it, it's perfect, it's not like
forked or anything.
And then it's always like, oh,it's not okay.
She was like great, oh, my god,what.
(36:56):
I also I loved the.
Uh, the moment where uh, dancomes to help a man, a deal, and
dan's like what happened?
Linda just handed me the babyand ran out.
What did you say to her?
The same thing, you did, thatit was okay, that she was
completely screwed.
Oh, now I hear it.
I hear it now.
Yeah, I am impressed that shewas like okay, have the baby,
(37:24):
I'm gonna go glitter myself upand go to a rave, because I
would be like have the, I'mchecking into a place with
really nice sheets and I'm goingto sleep for a week and you're
paying for it.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yeah, that's what I would have done.
What were we talking about whenI said I would save it?
Was it?
Was it Cherry Jean?
No, I guess the fluffiest fluffof all fluff that has ever
fluffed.
Can we talk about the past fiveminutes?
Yeah, there's like some gifsonline Just goes and her knee
(37:57):
kind of like flops over.
Yeah, it's really hot.
Yeah, oh, my goodness.
Well, there's the like she'sgoing to leave and like they
don't say anything and they justlike yeah, they both turn
around to look at one another.
Yeah, yeah, it's just like, yeah, you're not leaving.
That's really hot, oh my God.
(38:21):
Well, and when he buffers hishand?
and like, like, like this.
Yeah, then she'd say I'm a wordperson, I word, therefore I.
I am incapable of wording rightnow.
That's not a verb.
Anything can be a verb inenglish, just like anything can
(38:46):
be a verb in English, just likeanything can be an adjective in
French, or no, anything can bean adjective in French.
See, I word.
I word well in more than onelanguage.
I really wish I could read youI'm sad that you can't remember.
I'm going to cut out all this.
Are you sure you're going tocut out all this?
My wording is very good.
(39:08):
Tracy can't remember her fluff.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
I'm telling her that she should, when she remembers
it, record it just herself.
So if you see that bonuscontent after this, that's what
happened, because we need toknow what the fluff was.
I know, I mean what the fluff.
We need the fluff.
I don't know.
I bet it was the fluffiestfluff that ever fluffed.
It was Fluffy McFlufferson.
(39:33):
It was Fluffy McGee,fluffington McFluffers.
It's hard getting old, it is.
It's better than thealternative.
Oh, yes, I definitely agreewith that.
But yeah, getting old, it'sweird.
Yeah, all right, well, I won'tsay yes to you next week, but
(39:53):
I'll see you next time.
I'll see you next time.
We probably won't be next toeach other next time.
No, well, our boxes, yes, ourboxes.
See you next time.
See you next time, all righty'all.
It's been over a week, but Ifinally remembered my fluff.
When Amenadiel tells Luciferthat he heard a voice in hell
(40:14):
that he never expected to hearin hell, and Lucifer's trying to
guess who the voice is, one ofthe names he offers is Mr Rogers
, and I just don't believe it.
I do not believe it, eventhough I know it's your own
feelings of guilt that wouldsend you there.
And, of course, mr Rogers, likeall of us.
I'm sure he was subject to somefeelings of inadequacy and also
(40:38):
in my mind, the man was a saint.
So that was it.
That was my fluff.
See you next time.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Our theme song is Feral Angel Waltz by Kevin
MacLeod from Incompetechcom,licensed under Creative Commons
by Attribution 4.0 License.
Visit the show notes for theURL.
I am an artificially generatedvoice powered by Narrakeetcom.
Lucifer is a Warner Brothersproduction that first aired on
(41:11):
Fox and then Netflix.
Tracy and Emily are notaffiliated with Fox, netflix nor
WB.
If you liked this episode,subscribe to keep overthinking
with them and visit the shownotes for other ways to connect.
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