December 8, 2024 • 46 mins
Join Lachie Stuart as he sits down with Ben Lucock, a paramedic, former base jumper, and co-creator of the documentary Impact. In this powerful episode, Ben shares his journey of adrenaline-fueled adventures, the mental and physical toll of a life-changing accident, and the profound lessons learned through resilience and fatherhood.
Key takeaways include:
◦ The mindset required for extreme sports like skydiving and base jumping
◦ Overcoming depression and the importance of mental health awareness
◦ How to embrace mistakes, take ownership, and move forward with purpose
◦ The lessons fatherhood teaches about living in the moment
◦ Ben’s story is one of strength, vulnerability, and redemption. Don’t miss this inspiring conversation!
https://hota.com.au/whats-on/live/event/impact-documentary
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This conversation has discussions around suicide.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Welcome back to the man that Can Project with Lockie
Stewart.
This week we have anothermember of the dynamic duo from
the Impact film that you guyshave been hearing a lot about.
It's Ben Leukok.
Benny, thanks for joining me onthe show.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Thanks for having us mate.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I think you're at your in-laws at the moment.
We've got the Harry Pottercollection in the background,
which just jumped out at me,funnily enough.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yeah, it's making me look intelligent.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
It's one of the greatest tips of all time is
putting a bookcase behind youwhen you're on a podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Is it?
I'm assuming?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
When I was living back here in Australia at our
studio, when we had one backhome, I had this fancy bookcase
and people were like, oh, youread that I'm like nah, that's
just an image, mate.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Standing in front of a green screen really Exactly.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
But, mate, it's great to have you on here today and,
as I was saying last week withLucha's episode, I really just
wanted to get on here and get toknow a little bit more about
you, and you're obviously aparamedic and an avid.
You do base jumping as well,right, which is I think it's
even more insane than skydivingwell, I'm a retired base jumper.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I think I probably refer to myself these days.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I haven't jumped for a few years now, so as much as I
miss it and I think about it alot.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
It's um, I haven't done it for a few years and it's
probably not on the cards for acouple more.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, what's it like?
Like base jumping.
All I picture is like you're onthis beautiful cliff, face
something that's great forphotos, and next minute you're
deciding to jump off it.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Oh yeah, it's the most incredible feeling, it's
the biggest adrenaline dumpyou'll probably ever get.
But, like I said to a lot ofpeople, I enjoy every aspect of
bayes charming.
I enjoy the camping in themountains, you know um the
hiking at dark time and you justthe all the unique views you
(01:57):
get of the valley.
And, like you said, you arriveto this location, you might have
a little bit of breakfast upthe top there, maybe watch the
sun come up and you know, I'msure you've probably been to the
mountains before.
Just they hold they breathe likethey actually breathe, the way
that the sun hits them and theheat generates in the valley.
Yeah, um, there's awesomeenergy.
And then obviously getting a um, a quick way back down is the
(02:21):
cherry on top does it?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
is it, yeah, that initial jump?
Do you ever find yourselfstruggling to just take that
step?
Or are you just that excitedyou're ready to rumble?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Oh, you know, I'm always terrified absolutely
petrified and I think if youweren't scared, you'd probably.
You know, take a good look atwhy you're actually doing it,
because there's a lot of risk.
You know, once you get into thesport, you lose a lot of risk.
Um, you know, once you get intothe sport, you lose a lot of
(02:52):
friends to the sport, and so youreally got to love it, you got
to enjoy it.
Um, you have to have a respectfor it.
Um, yeah, and if you, the moreobviously the scared you are,
the bigger the rush you get onceit's successful.
So for sure, it's a greatfeeling, but there's that, that
sense of like, absolutelypetrified when you're on the
edge, but obviously, um, in thewingsuits I mostly jumped in the
wingsuits once, once you leavethe cliff, like once you feel
(03:15):
yourself you've leant forward,you're committed, you can't step
back, that sensation of onceyou leave the cliff is just, uh,
unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
So and you're just trusting this wingsuit.
Yeah, yeah, with base jumping,because I've skydived twice and
I think that's more than enoughfor me now.
But obviously I haven't jumpedsolos.
I've never had that experience,because you have have old buds
strapped to your back whenyou're learning the base jump.
Is there the same thing, or youshould already sort of know how
(03:44):
to like?
There's no tandem base jumping,is there?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
There is.
These days there's tandem basejumping, but it's not utilized
as an instruction thing, it's ajoy thing.
So it's for people that want toget the sensation of a base
jump but don't want to do theyears of training and all that
kind of things leading up to it.
Basically, with base jumpingyou just rely on skydiving as
(04:10):
training.
So I think I had about 700jumps before I did a base jump,
um 700 skydives that is.
And then I found a really goodmentor and you just get someone
to teach you that that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
That's wild.
700 jumps, that is veryimpressive.
But can we go back a little bitlike before you got into
skydiving?
Give everyone a bit of a Iguess quick snapshot on what
life was like for you growing up, how you got into, what drew
you to wanting to be a paramedicand then also to skydiving as
(04:43):
well?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, I think I've always been like a sporting
enthusiast.
So obviously all through highschool I was, um, a very keen
bodyboarder so I was in the surfevery day.
I was right into that and, um,I think I've always been pretty
intense.
It's something that, like, Iwanted to be good at.
So I just lived and breathed itthe ocean and then I moved into
(05:06):
, I think I went from that towrestling and I just lived and
breathed that and then I movedinto kite surfing, went back to
the ocean and then I got intomotorbikes.
I was right into like racingroad bikes for a few years, wow.
And then somehow I think Iwatched it on youtube.
I didn't have any friends thatdid it.
I watched base jumping onYouTube and I just thought that
(05:28):
has to be the most incrediblefeeling, like flying a wingsuit
down a cliff.
It's got to be unbelievable.
You know, I had that speedfeeling from motorbikes and I
was like, oh, this just kind ofcaptures every adrenaline area.
And, funnily enough, likegrowing up as a kid, I was like
(05:49):
almost laughable, terrified ofheights.
Like the first time we lived ina two-story house, I think I
was like 10 or 12 years old.
To get into the two-story houseit was a split level, so
someone lived downstairs and welived upstairs.
So to get up into where we welived, it was an outdoor
staircase and the day we movedin I couldn't go up the stairs.
(06:10):
That's how bad my fear ofheights was.
Wow yeah, I'd get scared in thecar, going around roundy
mountains, like I think.
Once you kind of come out ofthe back end of puberty, I had
this sense to like I I loved theachievement of overcoming fears
.
I was just so addicted to it.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Base jumping seemed like the opposite end of the
spectrum to um living in fear ofheights for sure yeah, like I
can, I watch I was saying thisto lose like skydiving videos
and also like wing suits andstuff, and I find it very
therapeutic to watch.
It's a different story whenI've jumped out of a plane, like
just sweaty palms being likefuck, like I agree, it's the
(06:51):
most freeing feeling when youget there.
But I think, as you said amoment ago, like you've lost
friends to the sport and there'sjust so many things that I've
been made aware of that I'm likeI don't know whether I could
risk that feeling for it yeah,now I'm a father of two year old
these days.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
It's one of the reasons I probably won't jump
for a long time, so so yeah youhave that risk, risk versus
reward thing, and when you'resingle and doing your own thing,
that doesn't seem to matter.
So that's true, that's fair,yeah, but um, I guess the main
difference to skydiving is, likeyou know once, once you get in
that plane, it's very loud,there's lots of other people
(07:28):
there, the green light says go,you know, you kind of usher it
out the door, essentially, yeah,whereas base jumping is a, you
know, a self-regulated sport.
Really you can hike any mountainand you can sit there for hours
, whether you're waiting for aweather window or you know know,
just waiting for that righttime, for all the nerves to calm
(07:48):
down.
You're like right, I'm gonnasuit up and and have a go like.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
So it's really nice having that kind of aspect to it
, I think the freeing feeling ofit all so what, um, what was it
that made you want to get intoparamedics, like, was there
anything in your upbringing you?
You just sort of got to thatage where you're like all right,
I need to pick something on aboard, and this is what I feel
like doing.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, I think.
Well, I was a builder for years.
Oh, really, yeah, I was a chippyfor seven years, almost eight
years, and I really liked it.
I think it was a good job.
I liked the ideas on buildingsites and rewarding you know,
very visually rewarding thoughtI wasn't bad at it.
And then, I think during theGFC, when it kind of hit
(08:34):
Australia was like 2009 orsomething a lot of work dried up
.
I think I was installing Foxtel, transition the truck, a little
bit of cable work and, yeah,installed Foxtel for six months
or a year or something, whilethe building trade kind of
picked back up.
And I think it was during thattime I did a first aid course
(08:54):
and the guy came in and he wastalking about how he'd gone to
an accident and you know howhe'd made all these like
critical thinking on the flydecisions.
You know he's like I've got tothis car and I'm doing this and
I'm moving on.
Just that whole cascade ofthinking about lots of different
things in sequence and beingable to make a decision and all
that kind of stuff.
(09:14):
It was like a faster version ofbuilding.
Really, you know yeah and um.
That appealed to me.
So I think after the gfc I wasa little bit lost and I was like
, oh, I've seen it gotadvertised paramedics New South
Wales.
Throw my hat in the ring andsee how I go, because I didn't
really see myself as being unimaterial.
So they offered like atraineeship in the paramedics
(09:36):
Really, yeah, so it's just kindof like four years of training
on the job.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Because it is a university degree.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Now, right, I think is it.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's pretty much thesedays it's purely university.
But they offer this traineeshipwhere they you kind of do it in
segments and, um, you go back,learn a few more skills, they
send you back out there.
You can do a bit extra.
You come back, they train youup again, go back out there.
That's how I kind of got.
Well, in the end you just endup with a diploma.
You don't know the degree, butyou're still fully qualified and
I do everything same as someonethat has the degree.
(10:08):
So that's yeah.
So, being a hands-on learner,that appealed to me and somehow
they let me in and now I enjoyit it's wild.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I yeah, I got a lot of respect, obviously for the
first responders, and the workthat you guys do, like some of
the stuff that you see, and howyou manage that like even
mentally and emotionally, issomething that I admire and I
just can't seem to get my headaround how you guys do that Like
.
It's so admirable but I thinkmy stomach's too weak to be able
(10:41):
to do that.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, I mean the bad jobs are pretty few and far
between.
They're probably not as oftenas people think, but yeah, I
mean they do add up for sure.
I've been doing it for 13 yearsnow so, and there's a lot of
jobs over that time.
I can still remember veryclearly.
And then, yeah, it's abouthaving like a probably the same
as anything.
It's about having a good networkof mates, particularly in the
(11:03):
job, that understand the job andwe kind of debrief and touch
bases every now and then, justget that sense of like it's okay
that you know these jobs mightkind of hurt you a little bit
here and there, but you know, atthe end of the day we do a good
work and it probably affects usbecause we are conscious and
analytical of the situation andhow we might have been able to
do it better or different oranything like that.
(11:24):
So that's what keeps usimproving.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Had you already started skydiving by this point?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I think I started skydiving just after I joined
the job.
Yeah, because I sold mymotorbikes as I joined the job.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, right, because you started.
What 2017, I think I readsomewhere Was that Looch.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
No, think I've read somewhere.
Is that luge?
Um no, I started the same yearI joined the job, so be about 13
years been skydiving as well.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Wow, okay, yeah, so moving that there 2012 or
something 2011 yeah, and whatwas it that sort of drew you
from that?
So obviously you got out andsold the bikes and everything
like that, moving intoparamedics.
We're just looking for thatnext thing, ready to overcome
the high staircase fear?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
yeah yeah, yeah, I think I, um, I met a guy that
had done it a little bit.
He kind of finished, but he'slike I've done a bit of
skydiving and stuff like that.
So he kind of was like this ishow you get into it and and
that's basically how I got intoit.
I didn't have any mates thatdid it directly and I didn't
(12:29):
know anyone that did the course.
I just rocked up by myself oneday and signed up and went
through a little bit.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
So I kind of talk about it on the doco, about how.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I've just always kind of made my own decisions.
I haven't been like oh, youknow, like safety in numbers,
let's go do this together.
Um, I was just like oh, I mightdo this and I'm just get into
it.
You always meet people inwhatever you're doing, so where
do you feel that comes from?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
because that was going to be a question I was
going to ask, like if you'recomfortable doing things by
yourself.
So many people are restrictedfrom doing things that they also
not are restricted.
They restrict themselves fromliving a great life because they
don't maybe have people intheir current life that would do
it with them.
They don't have that foresightto know what you just said,
(13:13):
where you will meet new peoplein whatever you do.
So where do you?
Speaker 1 (13:16):
feel you develop that .
I think I've always been kindof like that as an only child.
That probably, um, you know youlearn to get out there a little
bit more.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
I don't know where that comes from actually, but
yeah, I've always been prettycomfortable doing just achieving
my goals and what I kind ofwanted to do, so I'm not sure
where it stems from it's a goodskill to have and probably as
people watch the doco and justeven learn more about you, the,
the beauty and I'm sure do youever experience, I guess
(13:46):
initially when you're gonna forexample, when you went to start
skydiving, was there any feararound not fitting in or
anything like that.
Or you just were like, let'sjust go do it, I want to do it
not socially?
Speaker 1 (13:55):
no, not really.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I'ma bit socially awkward
sometimes, but um, I think it'snever really been bothered me
because I'm generally prettyquiet at the start anyway.
Yeah I do remember, um, like ona funny aspect, I was so
terrified of skydiving and evenafter I've done like 10 or 20
jumps a few times, I'd drive allthe way to the, to the drop
(14:19):
zone, we call it, where, yeah,where you indulge in the
skydiving, and I'd get there andbe like I'm so scared, I'm not
getting out of the car, there'sno way.
There's no way.
And I would think to myself Idon't know anyone here, I didn't
tell anyone I'm coming, so noone knows I've driven to the car
park.
If I just drive home, no onewill know.
I even came and I'd sit therecontemplating about going home
(14:43):
for ages sometimes and I think,oh, I'll just get out of the car
, get out of the car.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
And then you know, once you've done a few jumps and
head home.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
You're so satisfied in yourself.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
How many jumps do you normally do a day?
Speaker 1 (14:57):
When you're learning, you're probably only doing a
couple.
But I think the most I ever didwas I kind of got to the stage
where I was doing a little bitof coaching.
Yeah, so, not teaching peoplehow to skydive, but teaching
people that have got a fewhundred jumps and they want to
skydive better.
Yeah, so I'd kind of, if I wasdoing camps like that, sometimes
(15:18):
I'd be doing 12, 13 jumps a day, which is probably that's
probably maxed out.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
What's your adrenaline like during that?
Because when I went skydiving Ihad, I remember I was like
we're gonna land on the beachand I'm gonna go to the pub and
smash a heap of beers.
But after I landed, maybe 30minutes later, I just had this
big crash of energy because theadrenaline just cooked me so
yeah, after doing 13, like howdo you, how do you feel?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
oh yeah, I'd be totally taxed, completely.
I'd just be exhausted and Iused to think I was probably
like one of the only, notprobably only ones, but it
definitely seemed like itaffected me more than anyone
else.
There's a lot of other peoplewho could just charge all day
and then kind of have a fewdrinks, have some dinner and
then kick on through the night,wake up, do it again and and um,
(16:04):
and especially like a lot ofskydivers that then transition
to base jumping because, likeyou were saying, base jumping is
regarded as a bit more scarierand a bit more on the line.
You'd come back to skydivingand feel a lot more comfortable.
You're like, oh, this isn'tthat scary, there's not much to
worry about.
That wasn't me.
I'd come back to skydivingafter you know, a few months in
(16:29):
europe and that door would openand I'd be petrified every time.
Oh god, here we go.
Yeah, I'd be exhausted, I'd beexactly what you're saying.
So you know and it's probablyonly a handful of times I did
that amount of jumps.
Generally, seven or eight waspretty nice.
(16:49):
Seven or eight is kind ofcomfortable.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
That's still nuts.
And how does it work?
Because once again I'm curiousaround, like when I went jumping
, I think it cost me like $300or whatever.
So when you're jumping solo,it's not obviously costing you
$300 to jump.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Do you just pay like a day fee to jump or something
like that, or how does that allwork?
Yeah, you pay per jump.
I think, um, like when I firststarted, there was a few places
that were like maybe 30 bucks orsomething.
Yeah, these days I think it'sclose to 50, 45, 50 bucks yeah,
hobby.
So yeah, if you go and jump,it's, you know, 500 bucks a day
yep, you can rack up definitelyfor an adrenaline fueled day,
(17:32):
that's for sure yeah, but thenmotor bikes was the same.
You know, you kind of burn a lotof rubber on your tires and
then maybe you throw your bikedown the road a couple of times.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
You're like, oh god you just love the expensive
sports.
What was it like motorbikeriding, though?
So to me once again.
I used to ride dirt bikes, butyou watch the like moto gp and
the road bikes though that'sfreaking fast or like the isle
of man race and stuff on thestreets like what was it like
for you doing that?
Did you just froth on that, orhow'd you get into it?
(18:03):
What motivated you to stay intoit?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
yeah, that one I think I actually did get into
with a couple of mates.
Well, they already rode, yeahso.
And then I end up buying a bikeand kind of did the usual, just
went 110 percent, kind of, gotall the gear, no idea, and just
had a crack and um, you know,you're just obsessive.
You know, if I wasn't doing it,I was watching youtube how to
do it better, or I was justmentally rehearsing how I could
(18:28):
be better.
And you know, once you you'reprobably similar, I know you're
a quite sporty guy, you'reprobably similar in that once
you kind of feel this technicalside of sports or whatever
you're trying to achieve, that'swhen the addiction kind of
comes in, because you're likenow I'm analyzing how the sport
works, I can work out how I canbe better.
(18:48):
Yep, the 1% is yeah, and that'swhere you get that drive.
You're like yes, okay, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
It is fascinating when you think about that, like
the obsessive my wife alwayssays the same and people in my
life that when I go from sportto sport it's just like you find
it and you get obsessed with itand you just rinse it of
everything you possibly can,from YouTube videos to go into
events to meeting the bestpeople in it, and then pushing
yourself to that that I guessthreshold of what you're capable
(19:19):
of and it's.
There's something about thestrategy and the, the finicky
things that I really enjoy,because I don't know whether
it's because I know a lot ofpeople wouldn't do that or it's
just very fascinating to me todeconstruct something, to work
out how to make it better.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah, yeah, that's the addiction I think, and I was
never one of the freaks.
We've all had those friendsthat are just good at everything
straight away and theyfrustrate you.
I did get accused a couple oftimes of being learning things
slightly quicker than theaverage bear, but I kept saying
to people I was like I don'tthink in terms of how much work
(19:56):
I put into it, like, yeah, wemight be going to the track, the
same, or we're doing the exactsame amount of skydives, but
like I'm lying there all thetime with my eyes closed
thinking about it and you know,and you think back to all these
old scientific studies whereguys are shooting basket hoops.
Yeah, your eyes closed, theyimprove.
I think it's the same, like ifyou broke down, how many hours
(20:18):
I'd actually put into it.
I'm probably slower.
There's just a lot of hoursthere.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Makes a lot of sense.
What was it like now thatyou've got a two-year-old son as
well?
Like, are you diving just asmuch as you did, or have you
sort of cut back on that?
Like, has having a son shiftedhow you approach your diving at
all?
Speaker 1 (20:39):
well, I think I just um, I haven't jumped now for I
think over a year even skydived,yeah.
So I did quite, quite a few.
I think I did 60 or 70 oddafter the accident, yeah, um,
but then obviously you know, thehousehold went from two incomes
me and my partner, sophie, andtwo of us to, um, you know,
(21:01):
three of us and one incomebecause sophie become a
stay-at-home mom.
So yeah, um, you know, there'sthe finance thing, the reason
there, and there's also the time, like you know, I'd kind of
just rather hang out with thefamily going down to the drop
zone for an entire day.
It's um you know the family cancome with you, but it's pretty
loud the plane and get a lot ofpeople and stuff like that.
(21:22):
So just spending a bit moretime with them and going down
the beach and and save the moneyand stuff like that kind of
just pulled me away from thesport a little bit and it kind
of just got to the point where Iwas like, oh, you know, I
struggled to justify spendingthat amount of money on just the
hobby that I indulged in everynow and then, yeah, you know, I
think, um, if I was to get rightback into it it'd be fine, I
(21:44):
wouldn't mind, I wouldn't, themoney wouldn't bother me.
But, um, just picking it upevery now and then I was like,
oh, it's probably not worth it.
You know, I miss, I miss thesocial aspect of it.
A lot of my friends still jumpand you know there's this like a
lot of sports.
Scott, I think, has thisfraternity you know with it and
you know that's one of the greatthings about it.
(22:06):
So I miss a lot of that aspect,but in other times it's just
moving on.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
These days I'm just surfing a lot and hanging out
with a young fella.
Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Different chapter.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Different chapter, yeah, different season of life.
Can we talk about June sorry,not June January 16, 2021, what
that day was like for you andeven in the lead-up to it
obviously you'd done hundreds ofjumps to the lead-up of that
and how that day changed yourlife.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, I suppose it was just to me.
Me, it was just another normaljump until obviously I just I
completely stuffed up.
You know I've made thiscatastrophic accident.
That was purely me.
No one else was involved inwhat I did.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
You know what like the mistake I made, no one's
involved in the mistake.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
But then you know, my good friend Luchi paid the
piper for it, um, almost withhis life.
So it was very.
It's still even to this day andI think I'll take it to the
grave, when that it's very hardto swallow that I made that
bigger mistake.
Um, it's embarrassing.
There's a lot of thingsassociated with it and then
(23:14):
obviously the rehabilitation ofmy leg.
You know the accident in termsof injury I seem to be fine with
.
I was, like you know, I'vecharged hard in a lot of sports
for years now and this is reallymy first accident.
You know, like I've done veryminor things prior to that.
I've never even broken a boneother than like small things,
you know, like hands and feet.
(23:35):
So you know I was pretty.
I was like whatever.
You know, it's just my turn.
Everyone's had a turn at beingbanged up, it's my turn.
Um, so the first six months ofrehab was pretty good, but then
obviously I just like we weretalking about before, with our
like mentality towards how wedeal with things.
You know we have these goals,you know, have this almost
warrior instinct that like I'mchoosing this goal and and to
(24:00):
overcome, like to achieve thatgoal.
You, you wanted to dominate it.
You know that was like a thatsense, and that's how I treated
my rehabilitation.
You know everyone's like youjust got to work super hard and
I felt like I was working harderthan I could have imagined and
I was going backwards.
It was pretty hard to swallow.
(24:21):
So that was probably the startof the mental game.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
So prior, to that, it was very physical.
So what ended up happening toyour knee at that point in time?
Speaker 1 (24:34):
I'd smashed like the knee so it completely dislocated
the knee, and just popping theknee like completely out of the
socket, you just tear everything, yeah.
So in terms of bone damage itwasn't that much.
You know, there was a fewthings kind of snapped off the
head of either side, but not agreat deal of bone damage.
All the ligaments, tendons andall that kind of stuff just
(24:56):
completely snapped and and, asyou know, like your knee has a
fair range of motion it's notlike your shoulder, but like it
has a fair range of motion andyou've got all this soft tissue
that's very pliable and beingable to achieve that range of
motion.
And once you snap everythingand it just seals back together
in a scar, it just loses allpliability.
(25:17):
So my knee just becamecompletely seized up so it
wouldn't straighten and itwouldn't bend, it was just kind
of locked in this about 30degrees.
I mean, in terms of likeaccidents it wasn't that bad
really.
You know, like I still hadeverything else working fine, it
was just this knee.
But that was probably one ofthe biggest things.
You know, like in my mind itwas a lame injury.
It wasn't affecting a greatdeal of my body, it was only my
(25:39):
knee.
Everything else was fine, butit broke me, completely broke me
.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Why do you feel it broke you?
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Once I realized I wasn't really getting anywhere
with my rehabilitation and Iwasn't achieving what I thought
was achievable In my mind, itwas right there.
I was like I can achieve thisgoal.
I can rewrite the books.
You know, all the doctors weresaying like your leg's not going
to work anywhere near like whatit used to.
I was like, don't worry aboutthat.
You know I'm writing my ownbook.
Yeah, so I was like I'm gonnaachieve this in half the time.
(26:12):
I was like don't worry, don'tworry about frame.
I got it.
Once I kind of realized Iwasn't achieving anything there
was the embarrassment of howlame the injury was.
That's when I just kind of wentinto this depressive state.
There was a lot of moments ofanger and stuff, but it came
down to the point where I made aconscious decision.
(26:33):
I was like, right, I've lived areally good life.
Um, I'm 36 years old, I'velived this great life, I've done
everything.
I like so many cool things, andnow my life doesn't suit me, so
I think I'm gonna end it, I'mgonna choose to take my own life
.
That was basically.
You know, I'd come down to thisthought process and at the time
(26:54):
the scariest thing was I seemedvery, um, you know, almost at
peace with the decision.
And somehow I got out of thatspace and kind of came good.
And that's what thisdocumentary is about is, once I
realized I'd come out of it.
And then all this great stuffhappened.
You know, like I'm continuingto hang out with my friends, I'm
still surfing, I'm still doingall these great things.
(27:14):
I became a father and I waslike, wow, like I was that close
.
It felt like it was right there.
And, um, like yourself, like I'muh, I'm sure you've lost
friends, or or you know familyto suicide, because you know,
most of us have these days and Iwas like, well, I'm gonna, just
I'm gonna be really honest andjust get out there and tell my
(27:35):
story and how I felt.
I suppose, in sense, just kindof create a little bit of safety
in numbers, because sometimesall it takes is for someone else
to go.
Oh, ben had this feeling andhe's fine, so maybe I just got
to keep pushing through that'sthe idea, idea of the
documentary.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I guess it's a powerful story and thanks for
sharing that, Ben.
Like I often think about it, ifmy body wasn't able to do what
I can do now, like how would Icope with that?
Just from, like an identitystandpoint very similar to you,
like live a very active life,have had a great life, but I
feel, without having experiencedit, I would definitely struggle
(28:17):
in that chapter.
So for you to be able to makepeace and keep pushing through I
think it's always what'sdarkest before the dawn or
whatever it is If you canpersevere through tough times,
there's generally meaning andpurpose that comes out the back
of that and obviously, as yousaid, that's what brought to
life the documentary.
Also becoming a father andthese next sort of seasons of
(28:40):
your life which has made you theman that you are.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, that's really cool.
Interesting and cool to hearyou use those words like make
peace with it because I use theexact same analogy, because I
realized my depression was notsomething that I needed to
conquer Like we were talkingabout before.
I had this conquer mentalityLike I must defeat everything
(29:04):
and learn about it and dominateit.
The thing that got me throughwas making peace with it and I
know it might sound weird and itmight not resonate with
everyone, but it resonatesreally well with me.
Once I made peace with thattime in my life, I really moved
forward with a lot of growth.
You get a lot of personalgrowth through these dark times.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
As well to that point .
I want listeners to take thataway.
There's no one-size-fits-allfor anything mental health
related.
There's a difference withmental illness and mental health
and you know, trauma and andtragedy like can put us in dark
places, and what works for oneindividual may not work for the
(29:46):
other, and it's.
There's so many tools availableand you can, you know, seek
professional help, you can leaninto your communities or
whatever it is, and what workstoday may not work tomorrow as
well, and I think it's reallyimportant to understand that and
not be hard on yourself.
But it's just going okay.
Today this is what I need, ortomorrow that's yesterday.
That's what I needed and justaccepting that and I think your
(30:09):
your point there was makingpeace is what it's.
It's always going to be around,because it's the relationship
that we have with ourself isprojecting onto everything, and
if we're not happy within, thework has to start within and
quite often it's not aboutadding more or conquering, as
you said.
It's just like accepting whatis and then allowing ourself to
build off that base yeah, 100%,yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I think that's really well said, and um, yeah because
I kind of of struggled to putmy thoughts into words a lot of
times, especially when relatingto this, and I think what you
said, then definitely resonateswith how I kind of moved forward
.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
What does life look like for you now?
So you guys obviously havereleased Impact and you're doing
well with all the filmfestivals and there's so many
opportunities that are going tocome off the back of it because
it's such an inspiring story andI'm super grateful that you
guys are here to tell the storyand, as I was saying to Looch
last week as well, like beingable to turn this painful
(31:07):
experience and even for yourself, ben, like there's so much
strength in your ability to ownand take responsibility for what
happened that so many peoplewould just try and avoid.
And for me, I find it soadmirable and it's something
that I really respect about youjust being like I fucked up.
For me, I'm like that iscomplete ownership, that people
talk about it on the internetall the freaking time, but this
(31:29):
is like a really tough real lifeuse case where you've done that
and to then be able to bebuilding something like a tool
or a resource, essentially withthe documentary, that can
inspire and can tell the storyfrom both perspectives, and
that's what I'm really excitedto speak to both yourself and
Looch in, you know, I thinkJanuary, where we can have you
both on and dive deep into theaccident and perspectives and
(31:52):
thoughts.
I think will be really cool.
But, yeah, moving forward foryou.
What are you most excited aboutwith the documentary?
Speaker 1 (31:58):
I'm not sure what's really to come with it.
To be honest, me and Looch, allthe time are brainstorming
about what we could do and itsounds all well and good, but
you never know, maybe it justall gets viewed and everyone
gets this sense of entertainment, a little bit of a story, and
it disappears in 12 months' time.
(32:18):
Or maybe we kind of build offit, like you're saying.
It would be really cool if wecan build off it and kind of
develop something for mentalhealth, just people kind of
getting out and about andsharing stories and all that
kind of stuff.
It could be really cool.
There could be something reallycool coming out of it.
Way, like I mean, I'm reallytrying to enjoy every aspect,
(32:39):
like enjoy this.
You know, even watching thefilm.
The other week I went down tothe boron film festival.
That's the first time like I'dactually sat down and watched
the entire documentary, I'd seenevery segment.
But to watch the whole thing,start to finish and, um, yeah,
there's definitely segmentsthere.
I there, I'm looking at thescreen and I'm like, oh my God,
ben, you're absolutely pathetic.
What are you doing?
But I was like, oh, justembrace it.
(33:05):
It is what it is and you know,pathetic is a human emotion.
I guess I can't rob myself ofeverything this is Spot on.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Every podcast episode I listen back to it myself or
content.
There's always moments where Ifind myself in like I'm just
like, dude, that was so cringyor why did you say that or why
did you act like that.
But I think, as you said, it'slike it's part of the human
experience as well.
We're doing the best that wecan with the information that we
have and where you know,everyone's got a reason behind
why we're doing what we're doingand we use this as feedback,
(33:42):
right yeah to to get better, toget more clear, to get more
concise and impact other people.
because, ultimately, I think youguys have such a unique story
in and of the fact that you guyshave a great friends afterwards
as well and you've got bothsides of the story.
Like for me, where it's sopowerful is perspective is what
(34:05):
either makes people liveincredible lives or can fully
dismantle their life, whetherthey're taking it through like a
empowered mindset, sort of howyou've done or the victim
mindset I fucked up and let mejust destroy my life and punish
myself as a result and the factthat you were both there to tell
the story of the same event isso freaking powerful and I'm
(34:26):
genuinely so excited to havethat conversation when we have
it, to be able to really justhighlight that from a real life
event.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, yeah, it's really cool.
Um, it's definitely and uh,yeah, everyone, like you said,
there's a few people that havebeen so excited on on that fact
and you know, like you're saying, me and luchi be kind of we
knew, we knew each other, but,um, you know, like the making of
this uh film and and even justchatting after, you know, I
(34:55):
collided with him.
Yeah, we've become a lot closerand um, and with patty as well,
that the main film oh, we'vehad our challenges, making the
film good.
Like all three of us, we've alltested each other.
You know there's been some good, heated arguments, but we
always just come back to base,you know right, all right, come
(35:17):
on, let's just.
We're all friends, let's thinkabout what we're doing while
we're doing it, yeah, yeahexactly.
So let's just go back to thefirst step, which was we're all
just going to come together, putour footage together and have
some fun.
That was like the number onegoal was always like just have
some fun.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
So every time we kind of come back to that.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Any kind of anger has never been sustained.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
That's cool.
And what has that documentaryprocess been like?
Had you ever done anyfilmmaking or documentary stuff
prior, or has it just been likeoff the back of this you're now
sort of putting it together.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Yeah, I've never done anything and I've been very
poor throughout my life withcamera.
Even when I was doing bass,drumming and stuff like that,
I'd get to the exit point andI'd left my camera in my tent
flat.
I forget to turn it on.
I've always been someone that'sjust like.
(36:13):
I'm really happy, just for meturning on I've just I've always
been someone.
That's just like I'm reallyhappy just for me, yeah you know
, and I think I even started asocial.
I think I started social mediawhen I kind of was heading over
to do one of my base trips.
I was like I'm gonna startsharing it online and then that
was probably like the worstseason.
I ever used my camera, put upone and then I put one video up
and my nan seen it becauseeveryone's on social media these
(36:35):
days and my name was like oh mygod, what are you?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
doing and I was like oh, better take that one down,
don't want her saying that yeahyeah, I've never been great with
the camera.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I'm terrible in front of the camera, which you'll
probably see when you watch thedocumentary.
I'm just hopeless like a deerin headlights.
So, um, it was a completeunique experience to me.
Um, and just the way that, likeeverything's filmed to then how
it translates on the screen,like that, was a bit odd to me.
(37:08):
And, yeah, I think luci had alittle bit of background, so he
was pretty good.
He's done a couple of thingshere and there, so, um, and he's
a lot better with the camera.
He takes, takes the gopro with alot of things he does lives a
very adventurous life, as you,as you know from chat noob, and
he's always got the camerarolling, so he's pretty creative
that way just banking thosememories.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
That's yeah, and he's such a character.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
So, um, yeah, it's really cool.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah, I wasn't as good it's great that, um, you've
been able to use, uh, this,this experience in your life for
good and and like shifting yourperspective around it.
And I guess to the documentarypoint I.
There's a book that I've read anumber of times, but it's by
jim roan, who's like aprofessional development speaker
, and he just he said one thingin this audio tape that I was
(37:58):
listening to is like there'sthree things that you leave
behind.
It's your, your books, whichwill help people understand what
shaped your thoughts and ideas.
Your journals to understandwhat you thought about.
And then your photos tounderstand, like, the
experiences and memories thatyou lived.
Obviously, we're in a bit moreof a digital age now, so I was
like, right, podcast, podcast,youtube, journal, cool, that's
what I can leave behind forpeople.
(38:20):
So my sort of idea behind thingsis if I can document moments of
my life, even if people don'twant to watch them, there might
be a chance that when I'm 95 andcan't do too much, I'll be able
to put on the headset and justrelive moments in my life.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Yeah, headset and, just you know, really relive
moments in my life.
Yeah, that's true.
That's true.
It's a good way to think aboutit actually so that's an
interesting book.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Yeah, I'll share with you after because I listen to
it quite regularly.
It's very simple and to thepoint, but just helps me remind,
or helps remind me, of what youknow is important within what I
believe to be important withinlife.
But now that you're a dad aswell, ben, I'd love to know,
with what you're creating andjust even the fact that you're
surfing you've been through thisexperience you're impacting
(39:02):
people's lives, probably morethan you even realize already.
How do you want your son toremember you, or not even
remember you, but think aboutyou?
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Well, that's an interesting one.
Hey, fatherhood is so differentand it changes all the time.
I guess I got so much growthout of this process and I still
am, because I'm always learningand I guess for my son,
hopefully I can gift him withthe ability that he's I'm
influencing him to make his owndecisions and just in guidance
(39:35):
and hopefully he can brace hismistakes.
You know it inspires me to goto the gym.
Hopefully I can still kick hisass for the next 20 years until
he takes over.
But yeah, I just want him tokind of view me as a mentor, a
friend and, you know, someone helooks up to.
(39:57):
So just trying to be thatperson in life in all aspects,
just be a generalized goodperson.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yeah, sorry, it's a bit hard to kind of put that one
into a definitive answer.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
No, I just was curious as to whether it was
something that you could putinto words, because for me, one
of the things that I love mostabout podcasting is being able
to learn from people in alldifferent walks of life around
like what makes them tick andwhat they're aspiring to be, and
I think a lot of it comes backto some common principles just
around, like the importance ofconnection and and just making
(40:35):
not only yourself feel valuedand heard, but allowing the
people that you care about mostto to feel that love and value
and support, even though it'svery easy to get focused on so
many other things outside ofthat from wealth to watches to
everything else like that.
But at the end of the day,especially when you go through
experiences like what you'vegone through, like it definitely
(40:57):
makes you question life right,and you've thought a lot about
that.
So has your perspective on lifeshifted since the accident as
well?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Or even since the yeah, yeah, I think the biggest
thing has been because I wassuch like a goal-orientated
person and I'm also veryanalytical.
So I've spent a lot of my lifeand it's either analysing what
I've done in the past and youknow how it might have been
(41:29):
perceived by others, how I couldbe better if I've said anything
wrong, how I could say itbetter, or just actions, you
know, did this?
How did I act then?
Should I have been a betterfriend?
All these things.
And if I wasn't thinking aboutthat, I was thinking about goals
, or what am I going to dotomorrow?
How am I going to be better?
I just want to be better thanthe version I was yesterday.
(41:50):
And it's such an obsession andI realized I'd missed out on a
lot of this moment, becausethat's one thing we all have and
that's right now and I just aregoing through all that.
I realized I just need to justtake a breath here and there,
embrace this moment for what itis, what's happening right now,
(42:14):
live in the moment a lot more.
So it's fine to have thosegoals and have that warrior
mentality, but, um, you knowwhat's the saying don't let the
don't, let the thoughts of don'tlet the regrets of yesterday
and the concerns of tomorrowsteal this moment.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
So it's a beautiful quote yeah but that that that
sort of summarizes my validatesmy point from a moment ago.
That was the exact thing that Iprobably needed to kick up the
ass with.
I'm very goal-orientated, very,very, very analytical with
things, and hearing you say thatthat's exactly what my wife
says to me and a lot of people,it's like dude, just got to
(42:53):
learn to let go of things alittle bit and just live in the
moment.
I travel a lot around the worldand I've got an incredible life
, but a lot of the time I'm likeI'd have to be in bed by this
time because I'm doing this at 5am and then we're doing that
and it's like it's cool to apoint for some things, but I'm
also like missing out on thespontaneity.
Is that the spontaneity of lifethat as it's unfolding?
Speaker 1 (43:15):
yeah, yeah, for sure, you know just even little
things, like obviously my son'steaching reminds me of that, and
teaching because they are theabsolute lords of living in the
moment.
You know, lords of living inthe moment, I love it.
Yeah, because you know, just, Idon't know a song comes on on
the radio and they're just, andthey just jump off the couch and
(43:36):
start dancing around the lounge.
They have this pure joy on theirface and I think, why should I
be sitting here thinking aboutwhat I'm going to do tomorrow?
Just admire him doing his thing, yeah, he's a good little
reminder.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
It's awesome.
But, benny, I've reallyappreciated you coming on and I
know we're going to dive,because there's probably people
thinking we should have jumpedinto more detail around the
accident and everything likethat.
But it's just guys.
You guys got to come back inJanuary when we record with both
yourself and Looch together andwe can dive into that in more
(44:13):
detail.
But, for everyone listening, ifyou had questions for Ben that
you would like me to ask when wedo the next episode in a couple
of months time, make sure yousend them through and we'll be
able to dive into that.
But, benny, mate, you are a biginspiration to me and, as I was
saying earlier, I don't knowwhether you recognize the impact
.
Like people talk a lot aboutpersonal responsibility and
(44:37):
owning up to things and you'vedone that and I can't imagine
how hard that would be, but thefact that you can sit here and
just fucking own it is is soaspirational.
I wish a lot more people coulddo that in their life.
I think the world would be abetter place and that's why I'm
a big.
I really believe more peoplewill get sorry, people will get
so much value from thisdocumentary because you're
(44:59):
getting both sides of the storyYou're getting, you showing
strength and courage throughowning a mistake, which we all
make mistakes in life.
That's part of life.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
And then, obviously, having gone through what you
went through, with therehabilitation and the mental
challenges that you've faced, tostill be here now, turning your
pain into purpose, which is abeautiful thing to watch from
afar yeah, thanks, mate, thanksfor the kind words and yeah,
hopefully when we catch up injanuary, a lot of people have
watched the film and obviouslythe film goes into the accident
(45:31):
and gives you a really good idea, because everyone's wearing
gopros, so we have plenty offootage.
Yeah, you can see everythingand you get the real time, uh,
of how everything happened and.
But obviously there's a lot ofthings we didn't really discuss
in there that just, um, mighthave been a bit boring for the
big screen or we weren't surehow it would be perceived.
So hopefully when we catch up injanuary I'll have a bit more of
(45:53):
an idea of um, what people kindof think of the film and and
where it might have left alittle bit of a hole and like
I'd like to know more about thispart.
So that's where we're reallygood.
Catch up with you, um, withluchi, and we can have a good
yarn with that kind of stuff begreat sounds good.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Well, thanks so much for coming on, mate, really
appreciate it yeah, cheers,thanks for having me mate.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Nice to meet you likewise and everyone.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Just check out the show notes.
You'll be able to find thelinks to the documentary and
Ben's links as well.
So all you've got to do isclick it and get going.
As always, do something todayto be better for tomorrow.
This conversation has discussions around suicide.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Welcome back to the man that Can Project with Lockie
Stewart.
This week we have anothermember of the dynamic duo from
the Impact film that you guyshave been hearing a lot about.
It's Ben Leukok.
Benny, thanks for joining me onthe show.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Thanks for having us mate.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I think you're at your in-laws at the moment.
We've got the Harry Pottercollection in the background,
which just jumped out at me,funnily enough.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yeah, it's making me look intelligent.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
It's one of the greatest tips of all time is
putting a bookcase behind youwhen you're on a podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Is it?
I'm assuming?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
When I was living back here in Australia at our
studio, when we had one backhome, I had this fancy bookcase
and people were like, oh, youread that I'm like nah, that's
just an image, mate.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Standing in front of a green screen really Exactly.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
But, mate, it's great to have you on here today and,
as I was saying last week withLucha's episode, I really just
wanted to get on here and get toknow a little bit more about
you, and you're obviously aparamedic and an avid.
You do base jumping as well,right, which is I think it's
even more insane than skydivingwell, I'm a retired base jumper.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I think I probably refer to myself these days.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I haven't jumped for a few years now, so as much as I
miss it and I think about it alot.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
It's um, I haven't done it for a few years and it's
probably not on the cards for acouple more.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, what's it like?
Like base jumping.
All I picture is like you're onthis beautiful cliff, face
something that's great forphotos, and next minute you're
deciding to jump off it.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Oh yeah, it's the most incredible feeling, it's
the biggest adrenaline dumpyou'll probably ever get.
But, like I said to a lot ofpeople, I enjoy every aspect of
bayes charming.
I enjoy the camping in themountains, you know um the
hiking at dark time and you justthe all the unique views you
(01:57):
get of the valley.
And, like you said, you arriveto this location, you might have
a little bit of breakfast upthe top there, maybe watch the
sun come up and you know, I'msure you've probably been to the
mountains before.
Just they hold they breathe likethey actually breathe, the way
that the sun hits them and theheat generates in the valley.
Yeah, um, there's awesomeenergy.
And then obviously getting a um, a quick way back down is the
(02:21):
cherry on top does it?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
is it, yeah, that initial jump?
Do you ever find yourselfstruggling to just take that
step?
Or are you just that excitedyou're ready to rumble?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Oh, you know, I'm always terrified absolutely
petrified and I think if youweren't scared, you'd probably.
You know, take a good look atwhy you're actually doing it,
because there's a lot of risk.
You know, once you get into thesport, you lose a lot of risk.
Um, you know, once you get intothe sport, you lose a lot of
(02:52):
friends to the sport, and so youreally got to love it, you got
to enjoy it.
Um, you have to have a respectfor it.
Um, yeah, and if you, the moreobviously the scared you are,
the bigger the rush you get onceit's successful.
So for sure, it's a greatfeeling, but there's that, that
sense of like, absolutelypetrified when you're on the
edge, but obviously, um, in thewingsuits I mostly jumped in the
wingsuits once, once you leavethe cliff, like once you feel
(03:15):
yourself you've leant forward,you're committed, you can't step
back, that sensation of onceyou leave the cliff is just, uh,
unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
So and you're just trusting this wingsuit.
Yeah, yeah, with base jumping,because I've skydived twice and
I think that's more than enoughfor me now.
But obviously I haven't jumpedsolos.
I've never had that experience,because you have have old buds
strapped to your back whenyou're learning the base jump.
Is there the same thing, or youshould already sort of know how
(03:44):
to like?
There's no tandem base jumping,is there?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
There is.
These days there's tandem basejumping, but it's not utilized
as an instruction thing, it's ajoy thing.
So it's for people that want toget the sensation of a base
jump but don't want to do theyears of training and all that
kind of things leading up to it.
Basically, with base jumpingyou just rely on skydiving as
(04:10):
training.
So I think I had about 700jumps before I did a base jump,
um 700 skydives that is.
And then I found a really goodmentor and you just get someone
to teach you that that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
That's wild.
700 jumps, that is veryimpressive.
But can we go back a little bitlike before you got into
skydiving?
Give everyone a bit of a Iguess quick snapshot on what
life was like for you growing up, how you got into, what drew
you to wanting to be a paramedicand then also to skydiving as
(04:43):
well?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, I think I've always been like a sporting
enthusiast.
So obviously all through highschool I was, um, a very keen
bodyboarder so I was in the surfevery day.
I was right into that and, um,I think I've always been pretty
intense.
It's something that, like, Iwanted to be good at.
So I just lived and breathed itthe ocean and then I moved into
(05:06):
, I think I went from that towrestling and I just lived and
breathed that and then I movedinto kite surfing, went back to
the ocean and then I got intomotorbikes.
I was right into like racingroad bikes for a few years, wow.
And then somehow I think Iwatched it on youtube.
I didn't have any friends thatdid it.
I watched base jumping onYouTube and I just thought that
(05:28):
has to be the most incrediblefeeling, like flying a wingsuit
down a cliff.
It's got to be unbelievable.
You know, I had that speedfeeling from motorbikes and I
was like, oh, this just kind ofcaptures every adrenaline area.
And, funnily enough, likegrowing up as a kid, I was like
(05:49):
almost laughable, terrified ofheights.
Like the first time we lived ina two-story house, I think I
was like 10 or 12 years old.
To get into the two-story houseit was a split level, so
someone lived downstairs and welived upstairs.
So to get up into where we welived, it was an outdoor
staircase and the day we movedin I couldn't go up the stairs.
(06:10):
That's how bad my fear ofheights was.
Wow yeah, I'd get scared in thecar, going around roundy
mountains, like I think.
Once you kind of come out ofthe back end of puberty, I had
this sense to like I I loved theachievement of overcoming fears
.
I was just so addicted to it.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Base jumping seemed like the opposite end of the
spectrum to um living in fear ofheights for sure yeah, like I
can, I watch I was saying thisto lose like skydiving videos
and also like wing suits andstuff, and I find it very
therapeutic to watch.
It's a different story whenI've jumped out of a plane, like
just sweaty palms being likefuck, like I agree, it's the
(06:51):
most freeing feeling when youget there.
But I think, as you said amoment ago, like you've lost
friends to the sport and there'sjust so many things that I've
been made aware of that I'm likeI don't know whether I could
risk that feeling for it yeah,now I'm a father of two year old
these days.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
It's one of the reasons I probably won't jump
for a long time, so so yeah youhave that risk, risk versus
reward thing, and when you'resingle and doing your own thing,
that doesn't seem to matter.
So that's true, that's fair,yeah, but um, I guess the main
difference to skydiving is, likeyou know once, once you get in
that plane, it's very loud,there's lots of other people
(07:28):
there, the green light says go,you know, you kind of usher it
out the door, essentially, yeah,whereas base jumping is a, you
know, a self-regulated sport.
Really you can hike any mountainand you can sit there for hours
, whether you're waiting for aweather window or you know know,
just waiting for that righttime, for all the nerves to calm
(07:48):
down.
You're like right, I'm gonnasuit up and and have a go like.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
So it's really nice having that kind of aspect to it
, I think the freeing feeling ofit all so what, um, what was it
that made you want to get intoparamedics, like, was there
anything in your upbringing you?
You just sort of got to thatage where you're like all right,
I need to pick something on aboard, and this is what I feel
like doing.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, I think.
Well, I was a builder for years.
Oh, really, yeah, I was a chippyfor seven years, almost eight
years, and I really liked it.
I think it was a good job.
I liked the ideas on buildingsites and rewarding you know,
very visually rewarding thoughtI wasn't bad at it.
And then, I think during theGFC, when it kind of hit
(08:34):
Australia was like 2009 orsomething a lot of work dried up
.
I think I was installing Foxtel, transition the truck, a little
bit of cable work and, yeah,installed Foxtel for six months
or a year or something, whilethe building trade kind of
picked back up.
And I think it was during thattime I did a first aid course
(08:54):
and the guy came in and he wastalking about how he'd gone to
an accident and you know howhe'd made all these like
critical thinking on the flydecisions.
You know he's like I've got tothis car and I'm doing this and
I'm moving on.
Just that whole cascade ofthinking about lots of different
things in sequence and beingable to make a decision and all
that kind of stuff.
(09:14):
It was like a faster version ofbuilding.
Really, you know yeah and um.
That appealed to me.
So I think after the gfc I wasa little bit lost and I was like
, oh, I've seen it gotadvertised paramedics New South
Wales.
Throw my hat in the ring andsee how I go, because I didn't
really see myself as being unimaterial.
So they offered like atraineeship in the paramedics
(09:36):
Really, yeah, so it's just kindof like four years of training
on the job.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Because it is a university degree.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Now, right, I think is it.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's pretty much thesedays it's purely university.
But they offer this traineeshipwhere they you kind of do it in
segments and, um, you go back,learn a few more skills, they
send you back out there.
You can do a bit extra.
You come back, they train youup again, go back out there.
That's how I kind of got.
Well, in the end you just endup with a diploma.
You don't know the degree, butyou're still fully qualified and
I do everything same as someonethat has the degree.
(10:08):
So that's yeah.
So, being a hands-on learner,that appealed to me and somehow
they let me in and now I enjoyit it's wild.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I yeah, I got a lot of respect, obviously for the
first responders, and the workthat you guys do, like some of
the stuff that you see, and howyou manage that like even
mentally and emotionally, issomething that I admire and I
just can't seem to get my headaround how you guys do that Like
.
It's so admirable but I thinkmy stomach's too weak to be able
(10:41):
to do that.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, I mean the bad jobs are pretty few and far
between.
They're probably not as oftenas people think, but yeah, I
mean they do add up for sure.
I've been doing it for 13 yearsnow so, and there's a lot of
jobs over that time.
I can still remember veryclearly.
And then, yeah, it's abouthaving like a probably the same
as anything.
It's about having a good networkof mates, particularly in the
(11:03):
job, that understand the job andwe kind of debrief and touch
bases every now and then, justget that sense of like it's okay
that you know these jobs mightkind of hurt you a little bit
here and there, but you know, atthe end of the day we do a good
work and it probably affects usbecause we are conscious and
analytical of the situation andhow we might have been able to
do it better or different oranything like that.
(11:24):
So that's what keeps usimproving.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Had you already started skydiving by this point?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I think I started skydiving just after I joined
the job.
Yeah, because I sold mymotorbikes as I joined the job.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, right, because you started.
What 2017, I think I readsomewhere Was that Looch.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
No, think I've read somewhere.
Is that luge?
Um no, I started the same yearI joined the job, so be about 13
years been skydiving as well.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Wow, okay, yeah, so moving that there 2012 or
something 2011 yeah, and whatwas it that sort of drew you
from that?
So obviously you got out andsold the bikes and everything
like that, moving intoparamedics.
We're just looking for thatnext thing, ready to overcome
the high staircase fear?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
yeah yeah, yeah, I think I, um, I met a guy that
had done it a little bit.
He kind of finished, but he'slike I've done a bit of
skydiving and stuff like that.
So he kind of was like this ishow you get into it and and
that's basically how I got intoit.
I didn't have any mates thatdid it directly and I didn't
(12:29):
know anyone that did the course.
I just rocked up by myself oneday and signed up and went
through a little bit.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
So I kind of talk about it on the doco, about how.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I've just always kind of made my own decisions.
I haven't been like oh, youknow, like safety in numbers,
let's go do this together.
Um, I was just like oh, I mightdo this and I'm just get into
it.
You always meet people inwhatever you're doing, so where
do you feel that comes from?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
because that was going to be a question I was
going to ask, like if you'recomfortable doing things by
yourself.
So many people are restrictedfrom doing things that they also
not are restricted.
They restrict themselves fromliving a great life because they
don't maybe have people intheir current life that would do
it with them.
They don't have that foresightto know what you just said,
(13:13):
where you will meet new peoplein whatever you do.
So where do you?
Speaker 1 (13:16):
feel you develop that .
I think I've always been kindof like that as an only child.
That probably, um, you know youlearn to get out there a little
bit more.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
I don't know where that comes from actually, but
yeah, I've always been prettycomfortable doing just achieving
my goals and what I kind ofwanted to do, so I'm not sure
where it stems from it's a goodskill to have and probably as
people watch the doco and justeven learn more about you, the,
the beauty and I'm sure do youever experience, I guess
(13:46):
initially when you're gonna forexample, when you went to start
skydiving, was there any feararound not fitting in or
anything like that.
Or you just were like, let'sjust go do it, I want to do it
not socially?
Speaker 1 (13:55):
no, not really.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I'ma bit socially awkward
sometimes, but um, I think it'snever really been bothered me
because I'm generally prettyquiet at the start anyway.
Yeah I do remember, um, like ona funny aspect, I was so
terrified of skydiving and evenafter I've done like 10 or 20
jumps a few times, I'd drive allthe way to the, to the drop
(14:19):
zone, we call it, where, yeah,where you indulge in the
skydiving, and I'd get there andbe like I'm so scared, I'm not
getting out of the car, there'sno way.
There's no way.
And I would think to myself Idon't know anyone here, I didn't
tell anyone I'm coming, so noone knows I've driven to the car
park.
If I just drive home, no onewill know.
I even came and I'd sit therecontemplating about going home
(14:43):
for ages sometimes and I think,oh, I'll just get out of the car
, get out of the car.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
And then you know, once you've done a few jumps and
head home.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
You're so satisfied in yourself.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
How many jumps do you normally do a day?
Speaker 1 (14:57):
When you're learning, you're probably only doing a
couple.
But I think the most I ever didwas I kind of got to the stage
where I was doing a little bitof coaching.
Yeah, so, not teaching peoplehow to skydive, but teaching
people that have got a fewhundred jumps and they want to
skydive better.
Yeah, so I'd kind of, if I wasdoing camps like that, sometimes
(15:18):
I'd be doing 12, 13 jumps a day, which is probably that's
probably maxed out.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
What's your adrenaline like during that?
Because when I went skydiving Ihad, I remember I was like
we're gonna land on the beachand I'm gonna go to the pub and
smash a heap of beers.
But after I landed, maybe 30minutes later, I just had this
big crash of energy because theadrenaline just cooked me so
yeah, after doing 13, like howdo you, how do you feel?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
oh yeah, I'd be totally taxed, completely.
I'd just be exhausted and Iused to think I was probably
like one of the only, notprobably only ones, but it
definitely seemed like itaffected me more than anyone
else.
There's a lot of other peoplewho could just charge all day
and then kind of have a fewdrinks, have some dinner and
then kick on through the night,wake up, do it again and and um,
(16:04):
and especially like a lot ofskydivers that then transition
to base jumping because, likeyou were saying, base jumping is
regarded as a bit more scarierand a bit more on the line.
You'd come back to skydivingand feel a lot more comfortable.
You're like, oh, this isn'tthat scary, there's not much to
worry about.
That wasn't me.
I'd come back to skydivingafter you know, a few months in
(16:29):
europe and that door would openand I'd be petrified every time.
Oh god, here we go.
Yeah, I'd be exhausted, I'd beexactly what you're saying.
So you know and it's probablyonly a handful of times I did
that amount of jumps.
Generally, seven or eight waspretty nice.
(16:49):
Seven or eight is kind ofcomfortable.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
That's still nuts.
And how does it work?
Because once again I'm curiousaround, like when I went jumping
, I think it cost me like $300or whatever.
So when you're jumping solo,it's not obviously costing you
$300 to jump.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Do you just pay like a day fee to jump or something
like that, or how does that allwork?
Yeah, you pay per jump.
I think, um, like when I firststarted, there was a few places
that were like maybe 30 bucks orsomething.
Yeah, these days I think it'sclose to 50, 45, 50 bucks yeah,
hobby.
So yeah, if you go and jump,it's, you know, 500 bucks a day
yep, you can rack up definitelyfor an adrenaline fueled day,
(17:32):
that's for sure yeah, but thenmotor bikes was the same.
You know, you kind of burn a lotof rubber on your tires and
then maybe you throw your bikedown the road a couple of times.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
You're like, oh god you just love the expensive
sports.
What was it like motorbikeriding, though?
So to me once again.
I used to ride dirt bikes, butyou watch the like moto gp and
the road bikes though that'sfreaking fast or like the isle
of man race and stuff on thestreets like what was it like
for you doing that?
Did you just froth on that, orhow'd you get into it?
(18:03):
What motivated you to stay intoit?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
yeah, that one I think I actually did get into
with a couple of mates.
Well, they already rode, yeahso.
And then I end up buying a bikeand kind of did the usual, just
went 110 percent, kind of, gotall the gear, no idea, and just
had a crack and um, you know,you're just obsessive.
You know, if I wasn't doing it,I was watching youtube how to
do it better, or I was justmentally rehearsing how I could
(18:28):
be better.
And you know, once you you'reprobably similar, I know you're
a quite sporty guy, you'reprobably similar in that once
you kind of feel this technicalside of sports or whatever
you're trying to achieve, that'swhen the addiction kind of
comes in, because you're likenow I'm analyzing how the sport
works, I can work out how I canbe better.
(18:48):
Yep, the 1% is yeah, and that'swhere you get that drive.
You're like yes, okay, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
It is fascinating when you think about that, like
the obsessive my wife alwayssays the same and people in my
life that when I go from sportto sport it's just like you find
it and you get obsessed with itand you just rinse it of
everything you possibly can,from YouTube videos to go into
events to meeting the bestpeople in it, and then pushing
yourself to that that I guessthreshold of what you're capable
(19:19):
of and it's.
There's something about thestrategy and the, the finicky
things that I really enjoy,because I don't know whether
it's because I know a lot ofpeople wouldn't do that or it's
just very fascinating to me todeconstruct something, to work
out how to make it better.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah, yeah, that's the addiction I think, and I was
never one of the freaks.
We've all had those friendsthat are just good at everything
straight away and theyfrustrate you.
I did get accused a couple oftimes of being learning things
slightly quicker than theaverage bear, but I kept saying
to people I was like I don'tthink in terms of how much work
(19:56):
I put into it, like, yeah, wemight be going to the track, the
same, or we're doing the exactsame amount of skydives, but
like I'm lying there all thetime with my eyes closed
thinking about it and you know,and you think back to all these
old scientific studies whereguys are shooting basket hoops.
Yeah, your eyes closed, theyimprove.
I think it's the same, like ifyou broke down, how many hours
(20:18):
I'd actually put into it.
I'm probably slower.
There's just a lot of hoursthere.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Makes a lot of sense.
What was it like now thatyou've got a two-year-old son as
well?
Like, are you diving just asmuch as you did, or have you
sort of cut back on that?
Like, has having a son shiftedhow you approach your diving at
all?
Speaker 1 (20:39):
well, I think I just um, I haven't jumped now for I
think over a year even skydived,yeah.
So I did quite, quite a few.
I think I did 60 or 70 oddafter the accident, yeah, um,
but then obviously you know, thehousehold went from two incomes
me and my partner, sophie, andtwo of us to, um, you know,
(21:01):
three of us and one incomebecause sophie become a
stay-at-home mom.
So yeah, um, you know, there'sthe finance thing, the reason
there, and there's also the time, like you know, I'd kind of
just rather hang out with thefamily going down to the drop
zone for an entire day.
It's um you know the family cancome with you, but it's pretty
loud the plane and get a lot ofpeople and stuff like that.
(21:22):
So just spending a bit moretime with them and going down
the beach and and save the moneyand stuff like that kind of
just pulled me away from thesport a little bit and it kind
of just got to the point where Iwas like, oh, you know, I
struggled to justify spendingthat amount of money on just the
hobby that I indulged in everynow and then, yeah, you know, I
think, um, if I was to get rightback into it it'd be fine, I
(21:44):
wouldn't mind, I wouldn't, themoney wouldn't bother me.
But, um, just picking it upevery now and then I was like,
oh, it's probably not worth it.
You know, I miss, I miss thesocial aspect of it.
A lot of my friends still jumpand you know there's this like a
lot of sports.
Scott, I think, has thisfraternity you know with it and
you know that's one of the greatthings about it.
(22:06):
So I miss a lot of that aspect,but in other times it's just
moving on.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
These days I'm just surfing a lot and hanging out
with a young fella.
Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Different chapter.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Different chapter, yeah, different season of life.
Can we talk about June sorry,not June January 16, 2021, what
that day was like for you andeven in the lead-up to it
obviously you'd done hundreds ofjumps to the lead-up of that
and how that day changed yourlife.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, I suppose it was just to me.
Me, it was just another normaljump until obviously I just I
completely stuffed up.
You know I've made thiscatastrophic accident.
That was purely me.
No one else was involved inwhat I did.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
You know what like the mistake I made, no one's
involved in the mistake.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
But then you know, my good friend Luchi paid the
piper for it, um, almost withhis life.
So it was very.
It's still even to this day andI think I'll take it to the
grave, when that it's very hardto swallow that I made that
bigger mistake.
Um, it's embarrassing.
There's a lot of thingsassociated with it and then
(23:14):
obviously the rehabilitation ofmy leg.
You know the accident in termsof injury I seem to be fine with
.
I was, like you know, I'vecharged hard in a lot of sports
for years now and this is reallymy first accident.
You know, like I've done veryminor things prior to that.
I've never even broken a boneother than like small things,
you know, like hands and feet.
(23:35):
So you know I was pretty.
I was like whatever.
You know, it's just my turn.
Everyone's had a turn at beingbanged up, it's my turn.
Um, so the first six months ofrehab was pretty good, but then
obviously I just like we weretalking about before, with our
like mentality towards how wedeal with things.
You know we have these goals,you know, have this almost
warrior instinct that like I'mchoosing this goal and and to
(24:00):
overcome, like to achieve thatgoal.
You, you wanted to dominate it.
You know that was like a thatsense, and that's how I treated
my rehabilitation.
You know everyone's like youjust got to work super hard and
I felt like I was working harderthan I could have imagined and
I was going backwards.
It was pretty hard to swallow.
(24:21):
So that was probably the startof the mental game.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
So prior, to that, it was very physical.
So what ended up happening toyour knee at that point in time?
Speaker 1 (24:34):
I'd smashed like the knee so it completely dislocated
the knee, and just popping theknee like completely out of the
socket, you just tear everything, yeah.
So in terms of bone damage itwasn't that much.
You know, there was a fewthings kind of snapped off the
head of either side, but not agreat deal of bone damage.
All the ligaments, tendons andall that kind of stuff just
(24:56):
completely snapped and and, asyou know, like your knee has a
fair range of motion it's notlike your shoulder, but like it
has a fair range of motion andyou've got all this soft tissue
that's very pliable and beingable to achieve that range of
motion.
And once you snap everythingand it just seals back together
in a scar, it just loses allpliability.
(25:17):
So my knee just becamecompletely seized up so it
wouldn't straighten and itwouldn't bend, it was just kind
of locked in this about 30degrees.
I mean, in terms of likeaccidents it wasn't that bad
really.
You know, like I still hadeverything else working fine, it
was just this knee.
But that was probably one ofthe biggest things.
You know, like in my mind itwas a lame injury.
It wasn't affecting a greatdeal of my body, it was only my
(25:39):
knee.
Everything else was fine, butit broke me, completely broke me
.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Why do you feel it broke you?
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Once I realized I wasn't really getting anywhere
with my rehabilitation and Iwasn't achieving what I thought
was achievable In my mind, itwas right there.
I was like I can achieve thisgoal.
I can rewrite the books.
You know, all the doctors weresaying like your leg's not going
to work anywhere near like whatit used to.
I was like, don't worry aboutthat.
You know I'm writing my ownbook.
Yeah, so I was like I'm gonnaachieve this in half the time.
(26:12):
I was like don't worry, don'tworry about frame.
I got it.
Once I kind of realized Iwasn't achieving anything there
was the embarrassment of howlame the injury was.
That's when I just kind of wentinto this depressive state.
There was a lot of moments ofanger and stuff, but it came
down to the point where I made aconscious decision.
(26:33):
I was like, right, I've lived areally good life.
Um, I'm 36 years old, I'velived this great life, I've done
everything.
I like so many cool things, andnow my life doesn't suit me, so
I think I'm gonna end it, I'mgonna choose to take my own life
.
That was basically.
You know, I'd come down to thisthought process and at the time
(26:54):
the scariest thing was I seemedvery, um, you know, almost at
peace with the decision.
And somehow I got out of thatspace and kind of came good.
And that's what thisdocumentary is about is, once I
realized I'd come out of it.
And then all this great stuffhappened.
You know, like I'm continuingto hang out with my friends, I'm
still surfing, I'm still doingall these great things.
(27:14):
I became a father and I waslike, wow, like I was that close
.
It felt like it was right there.
And, um, like yourself, like I'muh, I'm sure you've lost
friends, or or you know familyto suicide, because you know,
most of us have these days and Iwas like, well, I'm gonna, just
I'm gonna be really honest andjust get out there and tell my
(27:35):
story and how I felt.
I suppose, in sense, just kindof create a little bit of safety
in numbers, because sometimesall it takes is for someone else
to go.
Oh, ben had this feeling andhe's fine, so maybe I just got
to keep pushing through that'sthe idea, idea of the
documentary.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I guess it's a powerful story and thanks for
sharing that, Ben.
Like I often think about it, ifmy body wasn't able to do what
I can do now, like how would Icope with that?
Just from, like an identitystandpoint very similar to you,
like live a very active life,have had a great life, but I
feel, without having experiencedit, I would definitely struggle
(28:17):
in that chapter.
So for you to be able to makepeace and keep pushing through I
think it's always what'sdarkest before the dawn or
whatever it is If you canpersevere through tough times,
there's generally meaning andpurpose that comes out the back
of that and obviously, as yousaid, that's what brought to
life the documentary.
Also becoming a father andthese next sort of seasons of
(28:40):
your life which has made you theman that you are.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, that's really cool.
Interesting and cool to hearyou use those words like make
peace with it because I use theexact same analogy, because I
realized my depression was notsomething that I needed to
conquer Like we were talkingabout before.
I had this conquer mentalityLike I must defeat everything
(29:04):
and learn about it and dominateit.
The thing that got me throughwas making peace with it and I
know it might sound weird and itmight not resonate with
everyone, but it resonatesreally well with me.
Once I made peace with thattime in my life, I really moved
forward with a lot of growth.
You get a lot of personalgrowth through these dark times.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
As well to that point .
I want listeners to take thataway.
There's no one-size-fits-allfor anything mental health
related.
There's a difference withmental illness and mental health
and you know, trauma and andtragedy like can put us in dark
places, and what works for oneindividual may not work for the
(29:46):
other, and it's.
There's so many tools availableand you can, you know, seek
professional help, you can leaninto your communities or
whatever it is, and what workstoday may not work tomorrow as
well, and I think it's reallyimportant to understand that and
not be hard on yourself.
But it's just going okay.
Today this is what I need, ortomorrow that's yesterday.
That's what I needed and justaccepting that and I think your
(30:09):
your point there was makingpeace is what it's.
It's always going to be around,because it's the relationship
that we have with ourself isprojecting onto everything, and
if we're not happy within, thework has to start within and
quite often it's not aboutadding more or conquering, as
you said.
It's just like accepting whatis and then allowing ourself to
build off that base yeah, 100%,yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I think that's really well said, and um, yeah because
I kind of of struggled to putmy thoughts into words a lot of
times, especially when relatingto this, and I think what you
said, then definitely resonateswith how I kind of moved forward
.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
What does life look like for you now?
So you guys obviously havereleased Impact and you're doing
well with all the filmfestivals and there's so many
opportunities that are going tocome off the back of it because
it's such an inspiring story andI'm super grateful that you
guys are here to tell the storyand, as I was saying to Looch
last week as well, like beingable to turn this painful
(31:07):
experience and even for yourself, ben, like there's so much
strength in your ability to ownand take responsibility for what
happened that so many peoplewould just try and avoid.
And for me, I find it soadmirable and it's something
that I really respect about youjust being like I fucked up.
For me, I'm like that iscomplete ownership, that people
talk about it on the internetall the freaking time, but this
(31:29):
is like a really tough real lifeuse case where you've done that
and to then be able to bebuilding something like a tool
or a resource, essentially withthe documentary, that can
inspire and can tell the storyfrom both perspectives, and
that's what I'm really excitedto speak to both yourself and
Looch in, you know, I thinkJanuary, where we can have you
both on and dive deep into theaccident and perspectives and
(31:52):
thoughts.
I think will be really cool.
But, yeah, moving forward foryou.
What are you most excited aboutwith the documentary?
Speaker 1 (31:58):
I'm not sure what's really to come with it.
To be honest, me and Looch, allthe time are brainstorming
about what we could do and itsounds all well and good, but
you never know, maybe it justall gets viewed and everyone
gets this sense of entertainment, a little bit of a story, and
it disappears in 12 months' time.
(32:18):
Or maybe we kind of build offit, like you're saying.
It would be really cool if wecan build off it and kind of
develop something for mentalhealth, just people kind of
getting out and about andsharing stories and all that
kind of stuff.
It could be really cool.
There could be something reallycool coming out of it.
Way, like I mean, I'm reallytrying to enjoy every aspect,
(32:39):
like enjoy this.
You know, even watching thefilm.
The other week I went down tothe boron film festival.
That's the first time like I'dactually sat down and watched
the entire documentary, I'd seenevery segment.
But to watch the whole thing,start to finish and, um, yeah,
there's definitely segmentsthere.
I there, I'm looking at thescreen and I'm like, oh my God,
ben, you're absolutely pathetic.
What are you doing?
But I was like, oh, justembrace it.
(33:05):
It is what it is and you know,pathetic is a human emotion.
I guess I can't rob myself ofeverything this is Spot on.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Every podcast episode I listen back to it myself or
content.
There's always moments where Ifind myself in like I'm just
like, dude, that was so cringyor why did you say that or why
did you act like that.
But I think, as you said, it'slike it's part of the human
experience as well.
We're doing the best that wecan with the information that we
have and where you know,everyone's got a reason behind
why we're doing what we're doingand we use this as feedback,
(33:42):
right yeah to to get better, toget more clear, to get more
concise and impact other people.
because, ultimately, I think youguys have such a unique story
in and of the fact that you guyshave a great friends afterwards
as well and you've got bothsides of the story.
Like for me, where it's sopowerful is perspective is what
(34:05):
either makes people liveincredible lives or can fully
dismantle their life, whetherthey're taking it through like a
empowered mindset, sort of howyou've done or the victim
mindset I fucked up and let mejust destroy my life and punish
myself as a result and the factthat you were both there to tell
the story of the same event isso freaking powerful and I'm
(34:26):
genuinely so excited to havethat conversation when we have
it, to be able to really justhighlight that from a real life
event.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, yeah, it's really cool.
Um, it's definitely and uh,yeah, everyone, like you said,
there's a few people that havebeen so excited on on that fact
and you know, like you're saying, me and luchi be kind of we
knew, we knew each other, but,um, you know, like the making of
this uh film and and even justchatting after, you know, I
(34:55):
collided with him.
Yeah, we've become a lot closerand um, and with patty as well,
that the main film oh, we'vehad our challenges, making the
film good.
Like all three of us, we've alltested each other.
You know there's been some good, heated arguments, but we
always just come back to base,you know right, all right, come
(35:17):
on, let's just.
We're all friends, let's thinkabout what we're doing while
we're doing it, yeah, yeahexactly.
So let's just go back to thefirst step, which was we're all
just going to come together, putour footage together and have
some fun.
That was like the number onegoal was always like just have
some fun.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
So every time we kind of come back to that.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Any kind of anger has never been sustained.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
That's cool.
And what has that documentaryprocess been like?
Had you ever done anyfilmmaking or documentary stuff
prior, or has it just been likeoff the back of this you're now
sort of putting it together.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Yeah, I've never done anything and I've been very
poor throughout my life withcamera.
Even when I was doing bass,drumming and stuff like that,
I'd get to the exit point andI'd left my camera in my tent
flat.
I forget to turn it on.
I've always been someone that'sjust like.
(36:13):
I'm really happy, just for meturning on I've just I've always
been someone.
That's just like I'm reallyhappy just for me, yeah you know
, and I think I even started asocial.
I think I started social mediawhen I kind of was heading over
to do one of my base trips.
I was like I'm gonna startsharing it online and then that
was probably like the worstseason.
I ever used my camera, put upone and then I put one video up
and my nan seen it becauseeveryone's on social media these
(36:35):
days and my name was like oh mygod, what are you?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
doing and I was like oh, better take that one down,
don't want her saying that yeahyeah, I've never been great with
the camera.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I'm terrible in front of the camera, which you'll
probably see when you watch thedocumentary.
I'm just hopeless like a deerin headlights.
So, um, it was a completeunique experience to me.
Um, and just the way that, likeeverything's filmed to then how
it translates on the screen,like that, was a bit odd to me.
(37:08):
And, yeah, I think luci had alittle bit of background, so he
was pretty good.
He's done a couple of thingshere and there, so, um, and he's
a lot better with the camera.
He takes, takes the gopro with alot of things he does lives a
very adventurous life, as you,as you know from chat noob, and
he's always got the camerarolling, so he's pretty creative
that way just banking thosememories.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
That's yeah, and he's such a character.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
So, um, yeah, it's really cool.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah, I wasn't as good it's great that, um, you've
been able to use, uh, this,this experience in your life for
good and and like shifting yourperspective around it.
And I guess to the documentarypoint I.
There's a book that I've read anumber of times, but it's by
jim roan, who's like aprofessional development speaker
, and he just he said one thingin this audio tape that I was
(37:58):
listening to is like there'sthree things that you leave
behind.
It's your, your books, whichwill help people understand what
shaped your thoughts and ideas.
Your journals to understandwhat you thought about.
And then your photos tounderstand, like, the
experiences and memories thatyou lived.
Obviously, we're in a bit moreof a digital age now, so I was
like, right, podcast, podcast,youtube, journal, cool, that's
what I can leave behind forpeople.
(38:20):
So my sort of idea behind thingsis if I can document moments of
my life, even if people don'twant to watch them, there might
be a chance that when I'm 95 andcan't do too much, I'll be able
to put on the headset and justrelive moments in my life.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Yeah, headset and, just you know, really relive
moments in my life.
Yeah, that's true.
That's true.
It's a good way to think aboutit actually so that's an
interesting book.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Yeah, I'll share with you after because I listen to
it quite regularly.
It's very simple and to thepoint, but just helps me remind,
or helps remind me, of what youknow is important within what I
believe to be important withinlife.
But now that you're a dad aswell, ben, I'd love to know,
with what you're creating andjust even the fact that you're
surfing you've been through thisexperience you're impacting
(39:02):
people's lives, probably morethan you even realize already.
How do you want your son toremember you, or not even
remember you, but think aboutyou?
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Well, that's an interesting one.
Hey, fatherhood is so differentand it changes all the time.
I guess I got so much growthout of this process and I still
am, because I'm always learningand I guess for my son,
hopefully I can gift him withthe ability that he's I'm
influencing him to make his owndecisions and just in guidance
(39:35):
and hopefully he can brace hismistakes.
You know it inspires me to goto the gym.
Hopefully I can still kick hisass for the next 20 years until
he takes over.
But yeah, I just want him tokind of view me as a mentor, a
friend and, you know, someone helooks up to.
(39:57):
So just trying to be thatperson in life in all aspects,
just be a generalized goodperson.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yeah, sorry, it's a bit hard to kind of put that one
into a definitive answer.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
No, I just was curious as to whether it was
something that you could putinto words, because for me, one
of the things that I love mostabout podcasting is being able
to learn from people in alldifferent walks of life around
like what makes them tick andwhat they're aspiring to be, and
I think a lot of it comes backto some common principles just
around, like the importance ofconnection and and just making
(40:35):
not only yourself feel valuedand heard, but allowing the
people that you care about mostto to feel that love and value
and support, even though it'svery easy to get focused on so
many other things outside ofthat from wealth to watches to
everything else like that.
But at the end of the day,especially when you go through
experiences like what you'vegone through, like it definitely
(40:57):
makes you question life right,and you've thought a lot about
that.
So has your perspective on lifeshifted since the accident as
well?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Or even since the yeah, yeah, I think the biggest
thing has been because I wassuch like a goal-orientated
person and I'm also veryanalytical.
So I've spent a lot of my lifeand it's either analysing what
I've done in the past and youknow how it might have been
(41:29):
perceived by others, how I couldbe better if I've said anything
wrong, how I could say itbetter, or just actions, you
know, did this?
How did I act then?
Should I have been a betterfriend?
All these things.
And if I wasn't thinking aboutthat, I was thinking about goals
, or what am I going to dotomorrow?
How am I going to be better?
I just want to be better thanthe version I was yesterday.
(41:50):
And it's such an obsession andI realized I'd missed out on a
lot of this moment, becausethat's one thing we all have and
that's right now and I just aregoing through all that.
I realized I just need to justtake a breath here and there,
embrace this moment for what itis, what's happening right now,
(42:14):
live in the moment a lot more.
So it's fine to have thosegoals and have that warrior
mentality, but, um, you knowwhat's the saying don't let the
don't, let the thoughts of don'tlet the regrets of yesterday
and the concerns of tomorrowsteal this moment.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
So it's a beautiful quote yeah but that that that
sort of summarizes my validatesmy point from a moment ago.
That was the exact thing that Iprobably needed to kick up the
ass with.
I'm very goal-orientated, very,very, very analytical with
things, and hearing you say thatthat's exactly what my wife
says to me and a lot of people,it's like dude, just got to
(42:53):
learn to let go of things alittle bit and just live in the
moment.
I travel a lot around the worldand I've got an incredible life
, but a lot of the time I'm likeI'd have to be in bed by this
time because I'm doing this at 5am and then we're doing that
and it's like it's cool to apoint for some things, but I'm
also like missing out on thespontaneity.
Is that the spontaneity of lifethat as it's unfolding?
Speaker 1 (43:15):
yeah, yeah, for sure, you know just even little
things, like obviously my son'steaching reminds me of that, and
teaching because they are theabsolute lords of living in the
moment.
You know, lords of living inthe moment, I love it.
Yeah, because you know, just, Idon't know a song comes on on
the radio and they're just, andthey just jump off the couch and
(43:36):
start dancing around the lounge.
They have this pure joy on theirface and I think, why should I
be sitting here thinking aboutwhat I'm going to do tomorrow?
Just admire him doing his thing, yeah, he's a good little
reminder.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
It's awesome.
But, benny, I've reallyappreciated you coming on and I
know we're going to dive,because there's probably people
thinking we should have jumpedinto more detail around the
accident and everything likethat.
But it's just guys.
You guys got to come back inJanuary when we record with both
yourself and Looch together andwe can dive into that in more
(44:13):
detail.
But, for everyone listening, ifyou had questions for Ben that
you would like me to ask when wedo the next episode in a couple
of months time, make sure yousend them through and we'll be
able to dive into that.
But, benny, mate, you are a biginspiration to me and, as I was
saying earlier, I don't knowwhether you recognize the impact
.
Like people talk a lot aboutpersonal responsibility and
(44:37):
owning up to things and you'vedone that and I can't imagine
how hard that would be, but thefact that you can sit here and
just fucking own it is is soaspirational.
I wish a lot more people coulddo that in their life.
I think the world would be abetter place and that's why I'm
a big.
I really believe more peoplewill get sorry, people will get
so much value from thisdocumentary because you're
(44:59):
getting both sides of the storyYou're getting, you showing
strength and courage throughowning a mistake, which we all
make mistakes in life.
That's part of life.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
And then, obviously, having gone through what you
went through, with therehabilitation and the mental
challenges that you've faced, tostill be here now, turning your
pain into purpose, which is abeautiful thing to watch from
afar yeah, thanks, mate, thanksfor the kind words and yeah,
hopefully when we catch up injanuary, a lot of people have
watched the film and obviouslythe film goes into the accident
(45:31):
and gives you a really good idea, because everyone's wearing
gopros, so we have plenty offootage.
Yeah, you can see everythingand you get the real time, uh,
of how everything happened and.
But obviously there's a lot ofthings we didn't really discuss
in there that just, um, mighthave been a bit boring for the
big screen or we weren't surehow it would be perceived.
So hopefully when we catch up injanuary I'll have a bit more of
(45:53):
an idea of um, what people kindof think of the film and and
where it might have left alittle bit of a hole and like
I'd like to know more about thispart.
So that's where we're reallygood.
Catch up with you, um, withluchi, and we can have a good
yarn with that kind of stuff begreat sounds good.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Well, thanks so much for coming on, mate, really
appreciate it yeah, cheers,thanks for having me mate.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Nice to meet you likewise and everyone.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Just check out the show notes.
You'll be able to find thelinks to the documentary and
Ben's links as well.
So all you've got to do isclick it and get going.
As always, do something todayto be better for tomorrow.
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