The Helicopter Boss: How to Finally Let Your Team Take the Wheel in 2025

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alex Swire-Clark (00:00):
We've got to get to a point where people are
not spending emotional energy inareas where they're so low to
start with in that bank right,they don't have that much money
in that bank account to be ableto take out.
They end up having to withdrawmore than is there and we end up
in a deficit.
And that's when we havepotential problems with folks in
energy laws.

Brandon Welch (00:22):
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, Brandon Welch,and I'm joined today by a guy
who's going to help you get moreout of life and business in
2025, Alex Swire-Clark.
Welcome to the podcast, alex.
Thanks, sir, appreciate theinvite.
Alex, is it true?
You're an emotionalintelligence expert, an author
and an award-winning speaker.

Those are all true facts.
Brandon intelligence expert andauthor and an award-winning
speaker.

Those are all true facts, Brandon.
So it says here since 1997,you've been doing this a while.
Alex has been providing dynamictools for improving
communication to audiencesaround the country.
He works with organizationsthat want to increase their
emotional intelligence so theycan reduce conflict and increase
collaboration.
Reduce conflict and increasecollaboration that's a novel
concept.
He facilitated over 6,000personality assessments since
2018.
He's collaboration.
Reduce conflict and increasecollaboration that's a novel
concept.
He facilitated over 6,000personality assessments since

(01:08):
2018.
He's a member of the NationalSpeakers Association and has
worked with organizations suchas Make-A-Wish, the Society for
Human Resource Management andthe South Carolina Manufacturing
Extension Partnership.
Of course, we want to hearthree fun facts about Alex of
course we do we should play twotruths and a lie, except we

(01:28):
don't have time for that.
You should know, though, alex isan accomplished French horn
player in the FoothillsPhilharmonic got a concert
coming up in two weeks.
Really heck yeah we're going togive away tickets for this for
anybody in the Greenville, southCarolina, the Foothill area.

Right, we're going to give away tickets that
this for anybody in theGreenville, south Carolina the
Foothill area.

right, we'll give away tickets that are free, by
the way.
Okay, we're going to give awayfree tickets for the free thing.

So we're really not giving away anything.

Is it true?
You're the Captain Emeritus forthe Southeast number one
scenario paintball team.

Capital offense.
That's right, that's right.
Yep, captain Emeritus, captainEmeritus, that means when I show
up, they provide me with foodand serve me grapes and all that
kind of good stuff.
But, yes, I have no leadershipresponsibilities anymore.

Love it so paintball, french horns and 80s
music pop.

Let's go Heck.
Yeah man.
The more Journey, the more BonJovi.
Give me some MJ.

Enlighten us Number one song from the 80s.
Oh man, you can't do that, I'vegot to do it.
Lightness number one song fromthe 80s.

Oh man, you can't do that, I've got to do it
.
That's a three-hour podcast.
I mean because I've got to sayare we going slow songs?
Are we going hair bands?

Are we going R&B?
One popped into your mind.
One popped into your mind Bestoverall song from the 80s.

It's like a 16,000-way tie.
Let's go with the classicthousand way tie.
Let's let's go with the classic.
Billy jean is amazing.
Um, I love, um, I love anythingfrom journey, so don't stop.
Believing is an underrated songfrom then, but now it's an
basically an 80s anthem, so I'llgo with those two right off the
break okay, we'll take it.

We'll take it.
Maybe we'll put him as bumpermusic oh shoot you.
Going from 80s pop music tomodern day business 2025.
We chose the title for thisepisode the Helicopter Boss how
to Finally Take your Hands Offthe Wheel and just looking
around at the companies that weserve.

(03:19):
Frankly, my own world and thereflection from my team and what
we do here in our four walls,and, I think, just the tired
sense I feel in entrepreneurshipin America, we've been working
as leaders a little harder thanwe have to, would you agree?

I totally agree, Totally agree.
We are set with our ownself-awareness and our own
personas and our own ways ofdoing things from either our
formal training and educationworld or from just, you know,
the training of hard life andthe knocks that we've taken to
get to where we are.
So I think we can have someparadigm breaking through this
podcast in terms of seeing theworld a little bit differently

(04:00):
and maybe having some tools inyour tool belt to be able to
navigate that a little biteasier.
I think you'll be in good shapefor 2025.

Well, you were instrumental recently in me,
maybe solidifying this conceptfor myself.
I belong to a CEO group.
We get together with 18 otherCEOs every month and we just
bounce ideas off each other.
We bring in guest speakers,world-class speakers such as
Alex through VistageInternational, and I highly

(04:28):
highly recommend, outside ofanything on this podcast, if you
are not in a group of CEOs,ideally from other industries
that would pull you up and giveyou a different lens to solve
your problems.
Man, join something like that,vistagecom.
You can check out any of thoselocal chapters or even if you
just pull together a group inyour community.

(04:49):
And that's where I encounteredAlex and he presented one of the
most dynamic workshops on theidea that, as leaders, we have a
duty and a responsibility but,more importantly, an easier path
for our lives if we choose toadapt better to the people we

(05:10):
are called to serve versusexpecting them to adapt to us.
And isn't that a novel concept?
Is that a fair summary of whatI think I learned a few months
ago when we got together?

You nailed it, brandon.
So the three principles I teachright off the break of our
sessions is understand yourself.
Self-awareness is key if we'regoing to communicate effectively
and be effective leaders.
Secondly is to be able toincrease our social awareness of
understanding others, right?
So understanding myself, yay,but if my circle stays small,
then my sphere of influencestays small as well.
So, understanding myself,understanding others.

(05:44):
And then the magic happens whenwe learn how to adapt our
behavior and our communicationstyle to meet others where they
are.
So don't just sit in your ivorytower expecting everyone to
respond to every email you send,with every box checked and
whatever, but that yet you don'tnecessarily have expectations
for yourself to do the same forthem.
We have to set up boundaries,of course, but being able to
understand the pace at whichpeople speak, the understanding

(06:05):
that some people like an emailthat has 25 paragraphs and lots
of detail and some people aregoing to respond to that with
TLDR too long, didn't read.
And then some people want threebullet points in a cloud of
dust man, just give me the tophalf of the window so I don't
have to scroll.
So understanding thosesubtleties in terms of how we
communicate makes us much moreeffective.

So understand yourself, social awareness,
understanding those around youand adapting your behavior.
A lot of owner-operators I knowjust went.
Wow, I didn't know I was aboutto get in a counseling session
with some psychology guru andI've been in that camp before.
So let me, let me say, um, whatI observe now is a lot of

(06:50):
practically um, owners, you know, maybe maybe even 50 to a
hundred people, uh, employeecompanies going.
You know, people just don't wantto work hard anymore.
Why aren't they doing it theway I want to do it?
Um, your thanks is yourpaycheck, you come to work for
me, yada, yada, and I think theyounger end of leadership
spectrum now knows at leastsomewhat that that's not going

(07:12):
to lead us to success.
But, man, there's a lot ofburnout I'm seeing in CEOs.
There's a lot of last few years.
There's a lot of people thatare just like saying keep the
cheese, let me out of the trap,I'm going to sell my company and
go live on my boat, orsomething like that.
Why do you think that ishappening?
This super stressful, thisangst, what's going on?

Yeah, so that's a four-hour podcast,
right?
So I think that, coming in fromthe 40s to the 70s, we had this
generation of you have built infrom your parents and other
social factors.
We go to work, we show up, wedo our job, we make a paycheck
and we kind of do our thingright.
And then as we got into the 70s, then those social constructs

(07:59):
started to break down.
Then we get into the 80s and90s and those folks, folks
become parents and it just haschanged the way we approach
things and I think that theinvention of social media has
really increased the awarenessas a general population of
what's possible, right?
So people have, you know, likethe four-hour work week was a
great book that came out in theearly 2000s that said, hey, go

(08:20):
do a little bit of stuff andthen pursue your passions
outside of work.
So people have gone from thistying passion and purpose in the
workplace to work as a sourceof income, which is a means to
an end, so that I can use thatto fund my passions elsewhere.
So, as business owners, if wecan help people tie passion and

(08:41):
purpose within the workplace,then they're not necessarily
looking for the only resourcefor fueling their passions is
outside the workplace.
There can be some of that donewithin the workplace, but that
goes, brandon, back tounderstanding what motivates
people and treating them in aspecific way.
We can kind of start breakingthat down as we go through.

Yeah.
So I heard a couple of thingsthere.
I heard we're basically past anera, our generation, which
isn't even young people anymore,it's like I mean, millennials
are in their 40s now sort ofcalling BS on work your whole
life and then have fun or work ajob without much meaning other

(09:22):
than maybe status, without muchmeaning other than maybe status
and our values have shiftedprofessionally, personally, and
maybe we're getting some thingsin line and I'm seeing you nod
right now, saying like that'skind of what's happened.
But I think the conclusion thata lot of my leader friends and

(09:43):
I make is that, wow, that meansthat we're going to have to move
slow, we're going to have toaccept a wimpy way of going
about business, and what I'velearned from you is that it's
actually quite the opposite.
When we get this right, weunlock a whole different level

(10:03):
of productivity and growth, andI know you've been a part of
hundreds of companies coachingthem through that growth.
Help us understand how we dothat from where we are today.

So two things there.
Number one is that what ittakes as a business owner from
zero startup right to, let's say, a million, five, it's duct
tape, it's shoestrings, you'rein everything, you're touching

(10:51):
everything, every invoice,you're signing the checks, I
mean you're doing everythingright.
And so we have that mentality.
If it's our baby in the startupmode, when we get two or three
years into this thing and westart to grow it, we get to,
let's say, 5, 10 million and westart building in layers of
management to be able to Aeffectively navigate the

(11:15):
processes we have to develop, orelse we're going to have the
whole thing collapse on us, andthen, b we have to be able to
remove ourselves from that andlet our people do their thing.
Because if we have our hands ineverything, then people are
going to be either timid, ifthey're more of a reserved
personality style, or they'regoing to be angry if they're
more of an outgoing style.
Stay out of my stuff, dude.
You hired me to do a job, letme do my thing right.
So, from that perspective, wehave to have greater social

(11:38):
awareness in terms of where do Ifit into this scheme and what
have I hired my people to do?
And thank you, jim Collins.
Good to great.
Have I put people in the rightseats on the bus, right?
So I think that's a huge pieceof becoming a more effective
leader is learning how to hire,recruit that top talent, keep
that top talent, but make surethey're in the right spaces in

(12:00):
your company.
So we're tying that passion andpurpose.
If we combine those two things,then people assuming that comp
is legitimate right, I mean wecan't just pay somebody $2 an
hour and expect them to havepassion and purpose and stay
forever.
That's not going to work.
But assuming that comp is notthe factor.
If we're getting people to sayI get to go to work today as
opposed to I have to go to worktoday, that all boils down to

(12:22):
they're getting something out ofit, right, they're.
They're charging theircreativity, or they're getting
to build processes, or they'regoing out there and they're, you
know, tagging sales every day,whatever floats their boat.
That's the key.
And so, as leaders, that's whatwe have to do above anything and
everything is, once we're outof that startup phase is making
sure we're using tactical,practical ways and a methodology

(12:46):
to hire and retain that toptalent.
Because otherwise, if we justshotgun approach, or you and I
are sitting down on a committeetogether saying what do you
think about Bob and Brandon'slike, oh he's great, so do I,
but why?
What's the why in there?
Why do we think they're great?
Well, because they laughed atBrandon's jokes.
I did too, but that doesn'tmean that they're going to be an
experienced salesperson orthey're going to be a tremendous

(13:07):
accountant.
It's a really good start.
Well, yeah, I mean because dadjokes are for the win.
So we need to have objectivetools in that system.
I think that, brandon, that'swhere a lot of those new hiring
managers, ceos they don't have amethodology right.
They just kind of ask.

(13:28):
They go to chat, gbt, give me10 great interview questions for
a salesperson, or give me 10questions for an accounting
person, and they ask thosequestions, but they really
haven't tied personality andenergy into that scenario.
So it becomes almost thisgeneric one-size-fits-all and we
end up with these square pegsand round holes and they're
looking to the exit For theposition, not the purpose.

(13:51):
That's right, that's right.
And we end up having people youknow leaving every three to six
months and turnovers high andwhatever, because again we just
we don't have a methodology.
And then we can start talkingabout you know personalities
within you know what is conflict, and we can go down that road
if we need to and how we coachour teams through conflict.

So I want to get to conflict because that's a
constant.
But you just mentioned tools toobjectively understand who
we're hiring and I think what Iheard in there is how to manage
and lead with some objectivetools.
I asked that full well knowingyou are a big fan of the DISC

(14:29):
personality test, but is thatthe tools you were referring to?

That is one tool.
There are many tools out there.
Your team has some great oneswith Enneagram StrengthsFinders.
There's lots of great tools,myers-briggs, you're never going
to hear me bash a tool, becausethey're all great.
The problem is, brandon, is thatwe don't use them to their
fullest extent.
So we'll take a tool and we'llbe like hey, brandon, we just

(14:55):
hired you, you're an INTJ andyou're going to be a rock star.
I'm going to go get some coffeeand then there I go off to my
desk and you've got this 90-pagedocument that's full of all
this great stuff about you andyou know yourself really well,
but you've got zero idea how towork with Sally down the hall,
who's an ESFP, right.
And then the second phase ofthat is we use it to hire and

(15:15):
then we never touch it again.
So in terms of coachingopportunities, interpersonal
conflict going on, we never pullthese tools back out and say,
hey, here's a great resource tobe able to end this conflict now
.
But just by having people lookat their assessment results and
swapping them right and saying,oh, this is why Brandon always
does that.
No wonder he gets up at fiveo'clock in the morning, just
driven and ready to go, andSally comes in and she's just

(15:38):
chill without having to succeedand rule the world one day.
That's not what drives her.
So those tools and the DISCmodel I love it because it's
super easy for anyone in theorganization to understand.
C-suite, middle management,frontline people doesn't matter.
The tool is simple enough, ifyou use the right ones, that

(15:59):
everybody can understand it.
It's not too much data and wecan use it practically every
single day in the workplace toprevent conflict from ever
happening.

So I think that I've got to know more about that
.
I think we need to dive intothat.
But just as a quick overview, Ithink most people on this in
our audience would have eitherused or at least know what the
disk personality profile tool is.
I would like to get a quickrundown of that, because I think

(16:30):
you explained it better thanI've heard anybody explain it.
And then, by the way, we'regoing to throw a link up on the
screen where you can go get afree disk or maybe not free, but
a very affordable disk profilertool for yourself, and then
maybe your key team members andby the end of this episode, alex
is going to give you someinsight as to how to best use

(16:50):
that.
But what is it?
Real quick.
And then maybe could you giveus some of the basic
measurements and how we mightstart to use that.

Sure, sure.
So disk, in a nutshell,developed way way long ago.
Marston and I can talk aboutHippocrates and all that kind of
stuff, but the the thefoundation is is there are four
quadrants of of human behaviorthat are pretty predictable, and
so we call that D, I, s and C.
The D styles are outgoing andtask-oriented.
So you know, never met achallenge they couldn't face.

(17:22):
Love to be in charge, sleepwhen they're dead, right, going
all the time, going all the time.
Then we have our I's, who areinspiring types.
Those are outgoing andpeople-oriented.
Never met a stranger.
Talk to a squirrel.
They are fired up about paint,drying grass, growing, woo.
We're excited about everythingin life, right, and we'll tell
you about that.
And then I've got my S's, whichare my reserved and

(17:46):
people-oriented.
So these folks are fiercefriends, deeply loyal,
salt-of-the-earth kind ofcreatures, super supportive,
caring, very steady, harmoniouspeople.
They're the glue of anyorganization.
And then we've got our C's.
C's are our reserved andtask-oriented folks.
Those are, you know, think,analytical people, logic,
organized, super consistent,love to have data, like to know
the entire scope of the projectbefore they take one step into

(18:08):
it.
And so we're all a unique blendof these four characteristics.
No one's just a C or just an I.
We all have some of this in us.
It depends on the intensitylevel of those traits and how
much we have of each.
That determines how we behavein various situations in the
workplace and in our personallives.

Love it.
Just, I think everybody who'slistening could.
Just.
As soon as they heard theirtype, they're like yep, that's
me, and hopefully they werestarting to go.
Oh, that's Sally down the hall,right, or that's-.

Or this is my CFO, or this is my sales team
lead, you know.
So that that's.
That's.
The hope from this conversationis that you can say, oh, I'm
this, but this colleague is notright.
So how do I get from where Isit to where they're sitting?
From a communication, from abehavior standpoint, so that we
can we can, as we say in theSouth air, that we can Jihad
right and we can get along andbe productive collaborators.

So I think an easy one to think of is your
wife or your spouse, and justyou know who are they.
It's an easy like mirror,because you know that person
really well.
Hopefully you know them well.
And where do we get intotrouble?
And just kind of wrapping thisaround.
I see now, so clearly we're notletting go as leaders.
So clearly we're not letting goas leaders.

(19:24):
We're being the helicopter bossbecause we are assuming maybe
the wrong things of the peoplewe're leading, which leads to
either conflict or fear, orassumed maybe lack of aptitude
or ability to pull something off.
And when it comes to thesepersonality types, where is that

(19:54):
getting us in trouble?
I think you mentioned mostleaders are the D type.
It's a stereotypicalentrepreneur trait is a D right.
Correct, Correct.
Help us look through those fourD, I, S and C types, through
those four D.

I, s and C types.
Yeah, so there's a lot tounpack there.
I think the first thing is wehave to understand that.
You know, when Frank Sinatrasang, I did it my way.
Not everybody's going to do ityour way, right?
So if you're a D Ds, typicallydo things the fast way.
How quickly can I cross thefinish line?
You know processes be darned.

(20:27):
You know I'm going to followsteps one, two, three, four and
five.
Three might not get done todaybecause I'm going to get to five
, so I can finish first.
Because, as we know from RickyBobby Talladega Knights, if you
ain't first, you're last, that'sright.
So for the Ds, they want tofinish first and do things
quickly, so they're not so heckbent on following the process
versus.
Let's go down the quadrant onthat same task side and look at

(20:49):
the C's for a minute.
We must follow the rules,brandon.
That's why they're there.

Everybody's thinking of their C right now.

That's right.
So like we must follow therules.
The speed limit is 55, not 56.
It's not 57.
It's not 60.
It's not nine under, just soyou don't get caught by the cops
right?
It's 55.
So the C's live and breatherules, procedures and policies.
And so it's a fascinatingarticle and a graphic I throw up
on my screen.
Sometimes is expectations,brandon, right, what each person

(21:22):
expects of themselves andothers.
So it's a really cool slide,because our C's if 10 is super
rigid and zero is basicallynothing a C's expectation of
themselves is a 10.
Their expectations of others isalso a 10, right?

So they expect high Thinking of Angela from the
Office.

Exactly exactly.
It's a high degree of of youknow a, capabilities, abilities,
doing things the right wayevery time, all the time.
For myself and everybody elseOkay For an S.
Their expectations of others islike a four.
Their expectations ofthemselves it's about a seven,
right.
So they expect good things fromthemselves, but everybody else,
it's okay.
If you didn't do it right thistime, it's okay, it's fine,

(22:05):
don't worry about it, we'll fixit right.
A high I.
Their expectations ofthemselves three.
Their expectations of othersthree.
If we show up we show up, man,we're going to have a good time,
we're going to make it happen,don't worry about it.
Tomorrow's another day, we gotit right.
And the D's expectation ofthemselves is about a, let's say
, about a five.
But their expectations of theother, those around them, is a

(22:27):
seven.
So if they show up on time, youknow, if they don't show up on
time, it's okay.
I'll get there if it'simportant to me, but by gosh,
you better be there, right?
I mean, you better show up andbe ready to go.
So that paradigm right there,just in itself, is crazy.
Right there, just in itself, iscrazy right.
And so for me, as a high eye,if I'm thinking to myself which
of those four do I notunderstand?

(22:49):
For me it's clearly a c.
Right, it doesn't have to beabout the book every time I can
order off the menu and say takeoff the onions.
I had a issue with my wife andearly on our marriage we went to
a restaurant and it was off theminions.
I said, well, can you hold this?
And I don't really likemushrooms.
Is there any way to take themushrooms out of the sauce?
And my wife is going.

(23:09):
Who's a heist?
He's going.
Oh, my god, you know just yeahit's all rock.

Yeah, so it's supposed to be that way that's
right.

So this in the workplace really really causes
issues.
Right, because as projectmanagers, as we have to decide
is it the outcome or is it theprocess that should drive
behavior in our organization?
Is it the end game?
Is it crossing the finish lineor is it crossing the finish
line the right way, even thoughit may take longer, or may

(23:38):
involve fewer or more people, ormay involve us creating
processes that we didn't alreadyhave to start with.
So we have to be mindful ofthat when we're talking about
our processes.
And then on the people side ofthat, the high I's.
They are going to be involved,give you their information, talk
about their stuff, get reallyexcited about it, but they're

(23:59):
not into the details.
So a high I leader willdelegate as much of that process
, as much of that detail stuffas humanly possible because they
don't want to have to deal withit.
I can tell you from my careeras a CEO for 18 years that, as a
high I, low C CEO, I know thatperson, by the way.

(24:20):
End of the month was justterrible.
Terrible because I had to gotalk to my CFO and I'm just
praying that I got by the way.
End of the month was justterrible.
Terrible because I had to gotalk to my CFO and I'm just
praying that I got a thumbs up.
If I had a thumbs up, I'mrunning away from his office as
fast as I could, right.
And if it was a thumbs down, Isaid, oh no, I got 30 minutes
where I'm going to have to lookat spreadsheets and performance
and projections and P&Ls and Imean, just shoot me in the face
and get me a root canal, right?

(24:41):
Yeah, I couldn't stand thatbecause it requires me to exert
a lot of energy in a quadrant orarea that I just don't have a
high score in.
So my I is 100 on a 100 scale.
My C is a 12.
So, oh, it's just painful forme to have to channel that inner
C to get above a 50% and getcompetent in that area.

(25:02):
Can I do it?
Of course I can, but do I wantto?
No, and that's going back tothe point we were trying to make
earlier.
Brandon is matching people'spassion and purpose Because
there's a high.
I low C.
If I had to look atspreadsheets all day, dude, I'm
miserable, I'm out.
You're not going to have me asan employee for more than like
two weeks.
So to a point where people arenot spending emotional energy in

(25:23):
areas where they're so low tostart with in that bank right,
they don't have that much moneyin that bank account to be able
to take out.
They end up having to withdrawmore than is there and we end up
in a deficit.
And that's when we havepotential problems with folks in
energy laws.

So back to your CFO and you at that time.
Were you using these tools anddid you understand that about
each other?
Were you using these tools anddid you?

understand that about each other.
100%, 100%, yes.
So my CFO knew that I was ano-detail person.
I'm themanage-by-walking-around
high-five guy.
Let's pump everybody up andit's all about culture.
It was not about numbers.
I just wanted if we wereprofitable.
I really didn't care what themargins were, and that's
terrible.
And there's high-se seed CFOsand CEOs out there going oh my

(26:04):
God.
Well, how does this guy have acompany that lasts for 20 years?
Well, it's because I surroundedmyself with people who did care
.
I didn't need to care, brandon,as long as I surrounded my
people in my leadership roleswho were predisposed to caring,
naturally would make surethey're always.
Every little detail matters.
That's great.

(26:25):
You do your thing, and so what Idid was I empowered them to
make decisions, to track thosedata points, create analytics
that I didn't even think aboutand ways to track things in our
organization.
So that's what kind of got themout of bed and getting fired up
about going to work.
Maybe I get a chance to createa process today.
That'd be amazing.
Or I know I'm going to sharesomething with Alex that he's
never thought about.

(26:45):
That's going to help us grow,sustain and build this thing to
be an epic company.
So again, it's just aboutmatching that passion and
purpose.
So we took those assessments,definitely shared those scores
to say, oh, so this is why Alexdoesn't want to come talk to me
anymore.
Well, it's not you, it's me.

You know a lot of these personality tests.
I think they present the ideathat, oh, you have to be this,
it's this rigid.
You got prescribed thispersonality type and so you're
also this.
And what I've learned is thatthey're just measurements for
your most natural preference.
And it's like I could writewith my left hand if I really
wanted to, but doing that allday long, I'd be exhausted by 15
minutes from now.

(27:26):
Right, I could use my preferredhand for writing and doing all
the tasks forever, right.
And so the jumping into adaptingto a personality style that's
very distant from yours isstressful, it requires energy,
and that's why you don'tnaturally want to be around
those people is stressful, itrequires energy and that's why
you don't naturally want to bearound those people.
And so I think what I'm readingbetween the lines on is A going

(27:49):
back to what you originallysaid understand yourself, so you
know where you are in thatspectrum.
B understand other people.
And then how do we start toadapt?
Because what does the high D dowith the high C?
Or the high I with the high C?

Yeah, great question, right, especially when
crossing those diagonals, likeyou said, ic and DS.
Those are always the keys.
And so for me, brandon, italways starts with education,
because, let's say, somebodywants to bring me in and do one
of these training sessions or dosome coaching.
My first question then was well, at what point are we going to
share this information with theentire organization?
And they're like well, I wasgoing to start with middle

(28:28):
management.
Okay, awesome, great.
So you're going to make yourmiddle managers adapt to
everybody around them theC-suite and their direct reports
but you're not going to makeanybody else responsible to
adapt to them.
They're going to be out of gasin the first two weeks, right,
because they're going to havethis methodology, that's going
to have this information.
And, yeah, it's great.

(28:49):
And selling down below me,she's deceased.
I'm going to adapt to her andmake sure I'm super, you know,
thorough, and I'm going to adaptup to my, my, my, uh, my boss,
and they're a high d, so I'mgonna they're just gonna be
exhausted, right so yeah okay,my, my, my statement is we have
to educate the entireorganization at some point.
It might not necessarily be inthat first workshop or whatever,

(29:10):
but we have to, because if youjust use one segment of your
population, not everybody elsehas the information and then not
everyone is adapting to others.
Because the key, the magichappens, brandon, is if I'm a
high D and you're a high S downhere in the bottom square, if
I'm a D and I'm having to moveto you, I'm exhausted.
But guess what, if we're bothmoving together, neither one of

(29:31):
us has to spend that much energyright In those emails, in those
meetings or whatever.
We're adapting to one another.
So we're using a collectiveless energy, because the sum of
the parts is certainly notnearly as great as when we put
those together.
So that's where the magichappens.
But too many times I have myCEOs will say yeah, we're just

(29:52):
going to do it for CEOs andmiddle management and I'm like,
well, have fun with that becauseit's like Uncle Ben said, with
that whole power and strength,with great power comes great
responsibility.
But now you've got thatinformation and you've got the
responsibility to use it.
You haven't put theresponsibility on anybody that's
reporting to those folks, andso that can create more stress

(30:12):
than it actually helps in thelong run.

And everybody.
Well, the CEO goes to someseminar like yours or some big
thought leadership summit orwhatever, and comes back and
says now and starts treating thepeople.
They're all fired up treatingeverybody different and they
don't know, like, are youtripping, man, did you just get

(30:35):
a brain transplant?
And it comes across as eitherreally weird or not genuine, or
like what's going on here andthat doesn't work either.
It's got, it's gotta be atotally understood operating
system operating system upgrade.

People have to understand the why behind these
super.
You know wide open behavioralchanges and or else, like you
said, there's there'sdisingenuine thoughts that come
in like oh, what's this guydoing?

Or you know he went to some kind of spa retreat
thing and gotten into his innerwhatever, and so yeah, yeah,
you drink some hallucinogenictea or something like that, so
OK, so the big idea going backto how do we A stay in our lane,
live more harmoniously with ourbusiness, allow our people to

(31:24):
maybe step into their purpose?
Quick observation I get a lotof I work with a lot of like
kind of what you were justdescribing owner-operators.
But then we work really closelywith the second level of
leadership and so I know thesepeople really well and as an
objective third party, and theboss or the client, the person

(31:45):
who signs our paychecks,essentially, will call us or
even in a meeting, be ventingabout so-and-so.
Dang it, why can't they just dotheir job?
Or they messed up this, orthey're totally jacking up this,
or it's a common theme.
And then I'm also seeing, likeyou know what I actually see,

(32:07):
the other side of this person,because I don't have a stake in
this particular conflict.
How do we resolve thoseconflicts so we can let go and
trust?
The basics are understand thepersonality, understand what
everybody else is.
But how do I start to let gowith that understanding?

So I'm going to back it up a little bit and
say we shouldn't even be talkingabout the people that are in
current seats in ourorganization until we've talked
about the methodology that gotthem in those spots to start
with, because for me, we have tohave a process in terms of
getting them into our companythat makes sense, because
otherwise, what's the metricwe're using to label success to

(32:51):
that hire right?
If we don't have a process toentertain that.
So first thing I would do issay ask a question.
Okay, let's just call him Joe.
Joe, do you have quality?

Joe, do you have quality?

well-written job descriptions for every role
in your company.
Do you, and 95% of the timeit's no.

The Joes that I know do not.

Okay Often.
So that would be as we wouldsay in the Vistage world.
That would be a personal actionsummary takeaway that we would
write down and say that.
Because, brandon, if we don'thave that, how do we know what
the benchmark is to measuresuccess?
And so let's say that you startwriting these down from your

(33:36):
ivory tower or wherever youhappen to be, and then you go
sit down with your highestperforming person and say, okay,
I'm writing this jobdescription, I just want you to
check me out.
Okay, number one says I'msupposed to come in at this time
and do this particular thing,and then Sally will say Joe, we
haven't done that in six months.
That's Latricia over there.
She's doing that now, right, oh, okay, well, scratch that one.
Okay, let's go to number twoand they'll go down all the list

(33:58):
of their 10 things and half ofthem won't even be what that
person's doing anymore.
So not only do you provideclarity for what the role is,
but you actually provide clarityin terms of who's doing what
and where in your organization,because that adapts and changes.
So you have to kind of have apulse on that, once every six
months just to do a jobdescription checkup, because
you're going to hire people andit should grow and expand.
Roles might tighten Roles,someone might be moved over

(34:19):
there.
So that's step one right.

And yeah, I would just say right now, like if
you're listening to this,schedule your next job
description review, like we havethose things, we have what
personality types are likely tosucceed, core responsibilities.
We have kind of like a maturityscale of like here's what top
of your game looks like, here'swhat beginner level looks like,
and we have paths of advancementand uh.
But as you're saying this, um,we're really proud that we have
those and we actually use them,but they could be, they could be

(34:50):
dusted off.

So that's an action item for all of us um,
schedule your job description orhave I'll have frank and maven
come in and do a third party.
Right, because you guys canlook at it agnostically versus
you know somebody who's in therole you should be doing this,
but no, no, we shouldn't.
It is what it is.
Well, we are where we are Rightand so if we need to say you
should be or shouldn't be doingthat, well, that's.
That's step two in that processof that.

(35:12):
But so, and a third, a thirdparty source, like you guys
would be fantastic to have thatno-transcript company if you
have a third party.

(35:32):
So, frank, maybe a little plugfor you guys.
So secondly would be once wehave that, then we need to start
getting as many objective toolsin the pre-hiring process as
possible.
And that's super criticalbecause, as we said from our
conversation a while ago, youand I could be on an interview
and we love Bob and he's greatand we want to hire Bob, but in

(35:52):
that 45-minute interview or hourand a half or two interviews or
whatever, we still really don'tknow what Bob can do in that
role, unless you're asalesperson.
You give me the classic, sellme this pencil or whatever.
So my second thing would be tobuild a quality pre-hiring
process so that people willself-select out along the way

(36:14):
and you're matching not onlycore values and not only skill
sets but temperament to thatrole.
So as many filters that areobjective as you can into that
world.
So when people would always askme well, alex, you talked about
in your presentation, y'all had92% retention rates after the
first 90 days.
I'm like, yeah, that's right.
So how do you get to that?

(36:34):
Well, it's all about beingobjective.
Right, take the subjectivityout of it.
So first thing we would do,brandon, was when people applied
for one of our roles, I wouldimmediately follow up and say so
, thank you for applying.
State your personal core valuesand how do you live those out
in the workplace?
Just send me an email.
State your personal core values, how do you live those out in
the workplace.
And so what does that do?

(36:54):
That tells me, a, is there corevalue alignment?
And B, can they communicate?
Are they crossing T's, dottingI's?
Did they do this at a trafficlight?
Were they just like I like blah, blah, blah?
So how?
But that'll tell me thesincerity of their application
and do we have core valuealignment, which is huge?

Yeah, and then the second thing would be Core
value alignment would solve alot of it.
Just by just trust and like.
Are we reading from the samesheet of music, right?
Do we see the world the sameway?
That fixes a lot of things.

In my job description.
You're spot on In my jobdescription.
The first thing out of thebreak is not comp, it's not
whatever, it's okay.
Our company's core values areintegrity, teamwork, clients
first, take the next step.
If you don't believe in thosefour things, stop reading now.
I don't even just stop right,just self-select out the door.
Is that way right?
So as much as that stuff I canfunnel off off the front, it's

(37:51):
awesome.
So anyway, so we do the corevalue statement.
Then I'll have them prove to methey can do what they do.
I always recommend to folks BradRemillard.
He's a consultant from out ofCalifornia.
His topic in terms of ourVistage group was you're not the
person I hired, you're not theperson I hired, the person I
hired, you're not the person Ihired.
And so what he always told usto do and this is beautiful and

(38:13):
brilliant and that's why Ialways give him credit for it is
you've got to put people in therole, brandon, before they get
the role.
Put people in the role beforethey get the role.
So in my world as a medicalbilling company, we would always
have them take a medicalbilling assessment, because I
don't care if their resume saysthey've been doing this for five
years, 10 years, whatever.
You've got to show me the money, prove to me you can do that.
So we gave them like a45-question test.

(38:34):
We gave them 60 minutes.
We said have at it.
There's coding in there,there's looking at explanation
of benefits, all the things wehave to do, and so if they
didn't make it 80% or above,they're done right.

We've started doing that.
Yes, so now you don't have towait.
Exactly People we loved andpeople that even passed the
profile we thought they ought tohave, but we call that
person-purpose proof and wereally leaned in heavy to the
proof.
Part of what do they?
That's?

right.

What can they do?
Can they swing a hammer?

That's right.
Can you break the rock?
It's that simple.
That's not to say that I can'tteach someone skills, right?
So if this is an entry-levelposition versus a, you know, a,
a senior coder, that those aretwo completely different things,
right?
If I've got somebody fresh outof medical billing school, I
don't expect them to be able toto pass it at 80.
That might be a 65, because youstill need to know something

(39:26):
and have learned something inyour coding classes.
Yes, so at that point we'rethere.
And then the next step is aninterview with an outsourced
hiring manager that's recorded,and then I'll go back and take a
look at that.
And then we give them apersonality assessment and do
they fit the benchmark thatwe've already created?
The benchmark is key, but thebenchmark, brandon, is dependent

(39:47):
on the quality, well-writtenjob description, because if you
don't have that, you havenothing to benchmark the
assessment to.
And so, once you combine thosethings, and then I do I always
did a core values interviewmyself as the CEO.
Everybody in our company, everysingle person that's ever hired
, was always interviewed by meon core values, because that's

(40:08):
super, super important.
You nailed it right If youdon't have core values, it's
nails on a chalkboard.
It's not going to work.
That's just a matter of fact.

I have some guys and gals right now that are
going wow, you interview everyemployee.
How big was your organizationthen?

Yeah, so we were up to 40 or so employees at
some point, but our wheelhouseis around 35.
Okay, but all remote-based.
Wow, nobody was in the office,and so we knew that our
benchmark for specific placeswere specific things.
So we hired a lot of CS blends.
That was one of our top twobenchmarks we had for most of

(40:45):
our roles, most of our roles.
So the C is for the attentionto level detail in the building
world.
Plus, that C is super great fornot needing to be micromanaged
because C's have to do thingsthe right way, and so that was a
beautiful thing and they canwork independently without
having to be managed very much,going to do things the right way
every time, all the time.
So that was something we knewwe needed and it kind of came to

(41:06):
fruition when we did theassessment to support the
benchmark.
So our idea of what we thoughtwas supported by the benchmark
that we ended up with.
So that was great.

Love it.
So I'm hearing.
Let me just read back Fix ourrecruiting process so we don't
have the mismatches, to beginwith in culture and skills and
then just understanding of justthe basic personality types.
Understand yourself and them soyou know where they plug in,
how you're going to approachthem, how you're going to

(41:37):
communicate with them, howyou're going to follow up using
the DISC profile and or, by theway, our team and we have the
best team.
If there's one thing I woulddie proud of, it's that we have
built wonderful teams and evenas people move in and out of our
organization, the teams arewonderful and we don't just use
one or two.
We use like five personalitytests, enneagram,
strengthsfinder, we're now usingDISC, patrick Lincioni's what

(42:05):
is it called?
Help me out Working Genius,sorry.
I'm like yeah, exactly it was meout Working genius Sorry.

I'm like, yeah , yeah, yeah, exactly, it's
right there.

Working genius, yeah, so there's five of them
that we go through.
Myers-briggs is one of them.
And then you're saying, okay,it's not that this person can't
do this, it's that I couldapproach them this way and I can
set my expectations this way,and it's not compromising, it's
really for us Ds and Is it'sjust not freaking them out and

(42:36):
it's letting them live in theirgenius and then maybe, well,
always trying to complimenttheir genius by showing up on
time to a dang meeting orsomething like that for our Cs,
right?

Heaven forbid right.

Yes.
So in between we're hiring thisperson, we know who they are,
we're adapting our styles andour leadership communications
and our follow-ups that way,we're reviewing those job
descriptions regularly.
I think that's a huge, hugething.
That's not an annual thing witha person.
That's probably quarterly, andyou've just challenged us to
level up in that area here.

(43:10):
We do that to somewhat, but wedon't talk about it enough.
If we do that, if we do thosethings that are outlined there,
does that lead us to the freedomwhere we can start to go?
I don't have to run in and jumpthat.
I don't have to micromanagethat, I don't have to show up
and be the hero in thissituation.

(43:30):
Is that going to get us there?

Not quite.
We're getting closer but we'renot quite there.
Okay, so what we have to do iswe have to, once that person has
taken their assessment, webring them on board.
Is we share that result withtheir teammates?
With their teammates, weclearly share that with their
supervisor.
But if we share that resultwith their teammates and then in

(43:55):
turn, once we've educated thatperson as a part of the
onboarding process to the DISCmodel itself, then we can
adequately share their teammateswith them and teach them how to
work better with others,because what we're trying to do,
brandon, is we're trying tokeep you, the CEO, from jumping
into every fire and let peopleeliminate the conflict that
happens before it happens.

(44:15):
So if we're using the tool toeducate everybody throughout the
organization and, of course,they're going to get mine, so
you can imagine me as the highIS CEO working with a bunch of
CSs, and that's just crazy,because when I come, to a
meeting… those poor people.
Exactly when I come to a meeting.
I was like, okay, virtualscavenger hunt, baby, let's do
this.
And they're like, oh my God,not again, alex.

(44:37):
But they know right, theyanticipate that we're going to
have a gift card giveaway forsome crazy Christmas dress-ups,
ugly sweater contest.
We're going to have fun in themeeting because I'm not just
going to sit here and just talkabout the changes to meaningful
use and all this other stuff.
We had to do so.
So again, they can anticipate mybehavior and adapt to me more
easily because they know.
So and if you remember thecommercials I'm not commercial,

(45:00):
but the GI Joe from the 1980syou know.
And now you know, and knowingis half the battle, gi Joe.
So.
So to use it in the hiring isgreat.
But then again the educationhappens, where we all know, and
you can put this easily on onthe internet.
You know your company web page,whatever, a nice little disc
graph that has everybody's doton a big wheel so you can see

(45:21):
everybody.
It's super easy to use thatbefore I go into a conversation.
So if I got brandon up here,who's a di, versus sally, who's
an SC, I have to approach themvery differently when I've got a
new idea, object whatever thatI'm going to discuss, because if
it's Brandon DI, I can say hey,man, you got a minute, bring it
what you got.
Okay, I got these three bulletpoints.
Tell me which ones we're goingto do.

(45:41):
Brandon's like awesome garbage.
Never say that one again.
Super, we're out the door.
That was 30 seconds and we'redone.
If I'm going to go talk toSally, who's an SC, I got to
send her an email a day beforeand say hey, here's the PDF I'd
like to discuss with youtomorrow at 12.
Just this nagging flywheelassumption that something's
going to go wrong or something'smessed up.

I don't know where it is but I'm about to see
it and I think that's where alot of CEOs live is things are

(46:29):
too quiet right now.
Something's got to be off andwe go create that chaos.
But what you just said not justabout how the CEO understands
the people I think that's aneasy enough concept because
that's training us to like,maybe on the unhealthy end,
manipulate, but on the healthyend, empathetically communicate.
But on the reverse end, yeah,On the healthy end, you know,
empathetically communicate.

And influence yeah, but on the reverse end,
yeah.

On the reverse end.
You know, sally doesn't have toassume that her boss, the D,
doesn't care, because he just,you know, always probably feels
to her like he's alwaysoverlooking her details or he's
not, you know, appreciating herhard work and organization.
And if she understands, ah,he's not that way, then then she

(47:12):
trusts him more and everybodyis like, happy, healthy, in
their, in their spot, right.

And they know what you need, right?
So if, if I'm, if I'm sendingyou an email I'm not going to
send you the 20 page thing, butI'll just I'll put that in a
link I'll say hey, brandon, hereare the three things we talked
about last week.
Boom, boom, boom.
For more information, clickthis link and if you want to,
you can.
If not, then it's not necessaryfor that time.
So we can anticipate whateveryone needs in the
organization.

(47:37):
And it doesn't takeoverthinking.
It's not a complex methodology,it's easy to look on that wheel
.
Okay, dc, doubly task-oriented.
So land my plane.
Nothing but facts.
Don't talk about my dog or hiscat or the Lakers game.
It's all business, right?
And if he wants to shoot thebreeze socially, we'll have a

(47:58):
drink afterwards or we'll go geta cup of coffee or whatever.
So just anticipating that.
It's the anticipation, brandon.
That's key, right?
I know what to expect when Iwalk in that room and I know
what they need before I ever getthere.
And then it's vice versa.
They know with me as well,right?
They know that if they're goingto come into my office for a
goddamn minute, we're going tohave a little conversation about
the game or the voice orwhatever before we start,

(48:20):
because that's going to fill mybatteries up for them Me to look
at those spreadsheets for 10minutes and watch.
Can you physically watch my?
My batteries drain?
Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, and isn't that all the key to the
healthiest and best marriagesand friendships and client
relationships?
People listening, you'realready doing this for your
clients.
You're already doing this inyour sales team.
You're already modeling whoyou're supposed to be
interacting with, and it justdon't stop when it gets to your
team.
Right, that's right.

(48:49):
That's right If it's goodenough.

Externally it's like you know the persona
that your kids have in publicright In the South here.
You know we've always taughtour kids, yes, ma'am, no, sir,
please, thank you all that kindof good stuff.
And so when they're out thereand they're talking to Ms Jones
as the teacher, your kids are sopolite, that's just so
wonderful.
And then they come back homeand they're like ah, I want

(49:11):
Cheerios, right, and whateverthey behave, how they behave in
the house, completelydifferently than their public
persona.
So, like you're saying, it'snot just let's be on our best
behavior in front of our clients.

Let's be on our best behavior in front of the
people we work with.

Yeah, exactly, and that would be man, that,
that, that new golden rule wetalked about it last night, but
lay that down for us the newgolden rule, tim McCoy.
Yeah, so the golden rule istreat others as you want.
You want to be treated right,which is absolutely, completely
false.
Right, because if I'm a D, Idon't want to be treated like an
Est, right?
Right, I don't need handwrittennotes to tell me what a good
job I'm doing or whatever.
I just want space and just setme a goal and a super high

(49:56):
target and I will go go after it.
Right?
So understanding that if you'regoing to try to influence
people, if you're going to tryto reward people or motivate
people, we have to do it in away that's meaningful to them.
So a high I is all aboutrecognition.
So bringing them to the frontof the room, recognize them in
front of the entire team,everybody clapping for them.
Woo, it's amazing for a high I,but guess what?

(50:17):
Only 30% of the population arehigh I's.
So if you're doing that, if allyou're doing is recognition,
brandon, for your team, in termsof trying to motivate them,
you're missing it 70% of thetime, because a high C a high C
in no way, shape or form wantsto be at the front of that room.
They want to be back at theirdesk doing more stuff they don't
need to at the time.
Thank you, whatever.

(50:38):
Get me off the stage back to mydesk.
So if we're not creatingdynamics where we're customizing
motivations, communication, allthat kind of stuff to the
person, we're missing it.
So the golden rule modified, orthe platinum rule now, is treat
others as they want to betreated.
Because if we're doing that,then they're going to feel like,

(50:58):
oh my gosh, they're customizingthis job for me.
It's amazing and people treatme in a way that like they've
known me forever.
So we're shortening thatlearning curve for how teams can
collaborate more effectively.
As opposed to two years oftrial and error, with this
methodology we go to two months.

Isn't that so much different than the
arrogance that sometimes we walkin the room with and saying I'm
just going to beat them intoshape, I'm going to show them
how they've missed the mark andit's like man, you're missing
their entire wiring.
You may as well be speaking adifferent language.
Are we close to landing theplane?
Are we on final approach for ayear of letting go and letting

(51:39):
our team live in a harmoniousvictory?

I think we have.
We've given people lots ofgreat nuggets and even if you
only do a couple of these things, your organization is going to
take three, four, five levelsway farther than where you are
right now.
So yeah, we've given them lotsof good stuff.

With Alex's encouragement and his wisdom and
some technology that makes itall work together.
I would highly, highly, highlyrecommend, before you set off
onto this goal-seeking journeyand try to do another brute
force, make it happen typementality there's nothing wrong
with that.
But I would, on the back end,fix your adaptation styles.

(52:19):
It starts with you as theleader empathy.
If there's one thing I wouldgive leaders across America, it
would be an extra dose ofempathy and curiosity.
But just to kind of read backsome of the practical, tactical
things fix your hiring process.
Make sure you're having anobjective tool and DISC is a
great one to understand thesepersonality communication styles

(52:42):
.
Understand yourself, understandthem, teach the entire team,
not just leadership, how we'regoing to interact with each
other.
Review those descriptions,those job descriptions, those
role clarity things.
Often, maybe even quarterly.
How often should people bereinvigorating this thing?

(53:10):
So it's not just a fancy hoorahthing we did at the beginning
of the year?
Do you have a recommendationfor a pace at that?

If we educate the entire team.
Once we've educated the entireteam, that's ground zero.
That's day one.
If we're using that methodologythroughout everything we do,
you put up that team wheelgraphic, let's say, in the break
room.
If you're on site, it's justsuper easy for folks to live it
and breathe it and we can use itas a part of our lexicon.
So, for example, if we're in ateam meeting and Brandon's going

(53:39):
really fast and I've got thesethree new objectives, hang on,
bro, you're going high D on me,right, just give me a second.

So adopt it in your vernacular.
Yeah, you put it on the wall.
I love that.

That's correct .
You put it as a part of yourvernacular.
That's organic.
It's not just something likesome companies where you walk in
and there's mission, vision,values on the wall and once you
leave that front lobby it's lost.
If you're using this kind of inyour daily vernacular, it
becomes a way of life and it'snot artificial, right, it's just
super easy to do.

(54:08):
This is a high C thing.
I've got Jane as a high C.
She's going to want it this way.
Okay, boom, I know I just needto give her a little bit more
detail than I would to Brandon,who's a high D.
It's just a natural flow.

Yeah, and you preempt frustration, which is
just the biggest energy drainfor anybody who's trying to go
to the moon.

Right, right, and that's how you stop
helicoptering right.
It's when you empower yourpeople to solve their own
problems and get thatinterpersonal conflict kind of
out of the situation and theycan focus on just being the best
version of themselves in thatrole.

Wonderful Amen on that.
Any final things as we look atacross 2025?
Any final things as we look atacross 2025, any tools or
advices, or just like one thing,you would impart to the leaders
of small business America?

Yeah, well, ai is a huge factor right now.
Ai into everything.
I mean from training videos toyou know, chat GBT to you name
it right.
It's out there buildingPowerPoints and whatever.

(55:18):
There's a great AI tool outthere called Crystal
C-R-Y-S-T-A-L Semic plug.
I'm an affiliate of that, butit used to be called Crystal
Nose and it's still branded asthat in some spots.
But what that does, brandon, is, if you're in sales, if you're
in recruiting, it will go toLinkedIn.
It takes their algorithm andwithin about 70, 75% accuracy
from what they post, who theyfollow, all that kind of good
stuff it can give you their DISCpersonality profile.

Oh, wow.

So it's an amazing tool that gives you a
head start on how we shouldcontact, how we should
communicate with people.
So if it does read, let's say,a DC, then you know that those
first encounters should not beplayful or whatever.
They should be tactical,business-driven versus if it's
an IS like me.
Like oh hey, I saw you supportthe upstate symphonic winds.

(55:58):
Tell me more about that.
Oh yeah, I'm a French hornplayer and we create a
conversation right.
So that's a great tool outthere.
That's AI-driven.
If you're into that kind ofthing, fantastic and driven.
If you're into that kind ofthing, fantastic.
And again, you can let me knowif you're interested in signing
up for that.
Again, shameless plug, I am anaffiliate.
But if you choose to get a freeversion of that, free version
is great too.
Just go to crystalcom and fireaway.

We'll put your code and your link in the links
and on the screen.
Awesome, we got to make surethat happens.
So, guys, we're going to bedoing at least monthly, bringing
in experts like Alex.
Our heart, like the wholereason we're doing this podcast,
as you know, is to helpentrepreneurs eliminate waste,

(56:39):
grow the business and achievethat big dream.
And when we get alignment, thistype of stuff that Alex has
brought us today, we live inpeace.
We live in, I think,appreciation and this blessing
that we have in front of us,just to not fight and worry
through the thing that should beour mission.

(56:59):
All these other things aregetting in the way and it's my
heart, it's the heart of Frankand Maven, to continue
encouraging you and building youup in this way and bring you
the best tools that we know of.
And I would recommend that youconsider Alex as one of those.
Again, we'll put his links on,but you can do a one-on-one
consult with him If you'rehaving any sort of friction
inside your organization, ifyour hiring process is broke, if

(57:21):
you got some wrong people onthe bus, one-on-one coaching.
He can come and do a workshop,which I would highly recommend.
I got to be part of one ofthose and just a wonderful,
feel-good, fun, mind-openingthing.
Every CEO in the room said itwas one of the best
presentations we've ever had,and you can get in contact with
him.
He's such a generous man withhis time and his knowledge and

(57:43):
his wisdom and he's been aroundthe block a lot of times, so
you're going to want to reachout to him and do that.
Alex, thank you so much forbeing on today.
Thank you for sharing yourstuff with our people.
I know it's made them betterand this is the part.
We're going to give away one ofyour books Anybody who submits
a screenshot.
I have three of Alex's bookscalled the Report Advantage yes.

(58:07):
The Rapport Advantage yes.
Rapport Advantage yes.
The Rapport Advantage yes.
Rapport Advantage With a T, butthat T is silent.
The Rapport Advantage we'regoing to give away three copies
of that and, if you will likeand comment, just send us a
screenshot of doing that tomavenmondayatfrankenmavencom.
We will get you in the drawingfor that and it's a great book.
I've started reading it as oflast night.

(58:41):
Also, check out Alex's podcastand links to his other materials
here.
You're going to want to usethese.
You're going to want to startyour year off right in alignment
so you can get more out ofeverything you're doing this
year and into the futureanswering your real life,
marketing, business, growth,personality, conflict, all
things entrepreneur, big dream,related questions.
Because marketers who can'tteach you why?
It's just a fancy lie.
You got it the first time, boom.

(59:03):
Thank you, alex, have a greatweek.

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