October 8, 2024 • 38 mins
Shelly is a private domestic adoptee, born 2 years post Baby Scoop Era in North Carolina. She was raised a minister's daughter, along with her younger sister that her adoptive parents conceived.
She was forced to become a birthmother at 17. She has 5 children, and her oldest daughter is adopted due to illegal rehomings. Trying to find answers for herself and her adoptive daughter....the journey began.
Shelly fought the system to find out her identity, place of birth, and date of birth. She lost and ended up paying $4,000 to find out who she was and where she came from. She began her search before DNA was available.
Because of her personal journey, she became a Search Angel for others. She quit her career and began searching and doing reunifications for other adoptees. She believes we all deserve answers — it is our inherent right.
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Mind Your Own Karma – The Adoption Chronicles Podcast educates listeners on the realities of adoption through the stories of adoptees, birth parents, and adoptive parents. We delve into their journeys, exploring identity, the emotional impacts of adoption, and the complexities that are involved when a child is removed from their biology.
We also tackle tough topics like transracial adoption and adoption ethics, featuring experts and advocates. By sharing these diverse perspectives we hope to not only educate the world, but also give hope and healing to those deeply affected by adoption trauma.
*** This podcast's mission is on adoption education. If you have an expertise that you think would be beneficial to anyone touched by adoption and would like to be on the podcast, get in touch with me.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You know, I don't like adoption,period.
In the end, I don't think it's necessary.
And I think we see it more and more as we talk to other people
and hear their stories. And being a search Angel and
doing reunifications, I found out the stories weren't the same
as the adoptee was told. Hey there, it's Melissa Brunetti
(00:20):
and welcome to the Mind Your OwnKarma podcast.
Hey there, Karma crew. Thanks for joining me for this
episode of Mind Your Own Karma, The Adoption Chronicles.
Today again, I have Shelley Johnson on the show.
(00:43):
Shelley began her personal journey of searching for her
biological mother 20 years ago. After many dead ends, she hired
a private investigator $4000 and24 hours later her mother was
found. While she was excited and
scared, she was also mad. Why does any adoptee have to pay
for information that is inherently theirs?
(01:03):
This is where her journey began.As a search Angel, she
successfully honed the tools of searching and realized a common
denominator with the adoptees she searched for.
They had no clue how to make thefirst phone call.
They had high expectations and were not prepared for the roller
coaster ride that is reunification.
She began to not only search buthelp the adoptee and the
(01:26):
biological side with the transition of reunification.
Through the years, she has become the point person for
guiding both sides through this process.
It is her passion and love. Here is my interview with
Shelly. So we are welcoming Shelly again
to the show today. Hi Shelly.
Hi, so Shelley was on a week or so ago, and if you want to hear
(01:47):
her very fascinating story aboutbeing an adoptee, an adoptive
parent, birth mother, all the things, go back and listen to
that episode. I'll have the link in the show
notes. But today we're going to talk
about her role as a search Angeland I'm super excited about it.
So, Shelley, as you know, representing the triad, how has
(02:08):
your personal experience shaped your views on the adoption
process and the reunification process?
You know, I don't like adoption,period.
In the end, I don't think it's necessary and I think we see it
more and more as we talk to other people and hear their
stories. And being a search Angel and
(02:28):
doing reunifications, I found out the stories weren't the same
as the adoptee was told and thatblew my mind.
Or lied to over and over again. Yeah.
As an adoptee, what were the biggest challenges in searching
for your own biological family? Well, it was before DNA and I
(02:53):
had to search and it takes a lotto get to that point.
You know, you, you're, you're done, you're ready.
You need, you need to find the answers.
And I couldn't. And I and I had everything,
birth indexes and everything. I just didn't know that my birth
date had been changed. So I hired a Private Eye.
Did that make it hard for you toeven search because you had the
(03:14):
wrong birthday I mean. Yes, I couldn't I couldn't find
I looked at the birth index and I was like there's no anything
matching my weight is all I had to go by with only one person
listed, no father, but I did call a couple of people, but the
private I found my birth mother in 24 hours, $4000 later 24
(03:39):
hours. That's so crazy and.
I was like, this is not what? Yeah, how hard can this be?
I got to figure this out. Right.
Right. I'm not paying another 4 grand
to find my father right? And I bet you weren't even
thinking like that. Your birthday was different than
(04:00):
you that you have known forever.No, I don't know how I would
handle that. That's crazy, but what emotions
did you experience during your search and how did those
feelings evolve over time? I mean, did you meet your
biological family? Kind of tell us what happened
there. You know, the search in general,
(04:21):
I think for everyone, it's a, it's a roller coaster.
It's exciting and then it's scary and then you get the
information and you're like, what do I do?
What do I do? I contacted her and we spoke and
that was it. And she asked me to politely
stay out of her life and she informed me that my birth father
(04:42):
had died at a young age. But then DNA came out and we
can't keep those lies. Yep.
And by then I was searching actively for other people and
myself. And then when I found him, I
found him maybe tennis years ago, but he had just passed.
(05:06):
So what emotions did you go through personally going through
all this process? You know, you feel like an
imposter. I have another name.
I have another birth date. Who am I?
And then you get the pieces bit by bit, and then it's rejection.
Please stay out of my life. You know I haven't told anyone
(05:28):
about you. Are you ready?
For that, no, I don't think anyone's ready for that.
I think we have this idea in ourhead, even if we have great
adoptive parents, we're going tohave this bond with our
biological parents, you know, a mother daughter relationship or,
you know, with her father, Daddy's little girl, and still
(05:49):
more nuanced than that. Yeah.
I wasn't prepared. I was not prepared.
Yeah, What motivated you to become a search Angel?
All of that, all of that, and then searching deeper to find,
you know, my biological family on my paternal side and finding
I had brothers and I had friends.
(06:11):
You know, this is before Facebook when I started
searching that said like I'm looking too.
And I said, well, I'll try to help you.
I've not done this before, but Iwant to help you.
Don't pay money. Stop.
And then I would find one and then I would find another and it
just click, click, click. And I was like, OK, I got, I
(06:32):
have the tools. I know, I know a little bit more
where to look, how to look, where to dig.
And it started from there. How long?
Have you been doing this? Oh, almost 20 years.
Oh wow. Right in between my finding my
mother and my father. I didn't really get into it very
(06:54):
deep and doing reunifications till the past 10 years when it
became like my job. Your full time job.
Yes, I was not prepared for that.
How has being a search Angel changed your understanding of
adoption? Reunions, you know it.
(07:20):
I get really excited for the adoptee.
I'm searching for the biologicalparent, but I also have this
little like in my heart, like, please be prepared.
Let's be prepared. Let's talk about this.
What are your expectations? Because even if it goes well, it
can and less than a week. And if it goes bad, it can come
(07:42):
back up. But just hold on, buckle up,
it's a ride. Right.
What do you tell people when they're ready to search?
I mean, I say wow. I mean, it takes a while for us
to get there. Let's sit and honor this.
Are you really ready? Are you ready?
Because you might find some things you don't want to find
(08:04):
out. Might find out that everything's
changed about you. You were lied to.
You know your bio mom isn't a drug addict.
You weren't born premature. Your birthday.
Is not your birthday. Who are you?
Right and. You know, and that'll make,
that'll have feelings towards the adoptive, you'll have
(08:25):
feelings towards of course, their APS and the system, which
is fine, but it's a roller coaster for them.
So I'm just like, get ready, getready for it.
Yeah, not going to be great fun.Yeah.
But needed. I just interviewed a man today
that Sean wrote a book. He was transracial, but he was
(08:46):
raised white. He looked white.
He had blue eyes. And I love Sean.
Hey, Sean. Yeah, And that's such a crazy
story. Oh, my God.
And like, not having that identity and people are like,
you're black, you're black. And he's like, but I don't know.
I don't know. You know, I really don't know.
And that that was just a crazy story.
(09:06):
So yeah, listeners, he's coming on.
So let's wait for Sean. Wait.
Wait for Sean. But he's really, he's really
good. His story's very interesting.
Yeah. What are some of the common
challenges adoptees face that you see quite often during
reunification, and how do you help them navigate?
I always like to say, you know, don't, don't do this by
(09:29):
yourself. And we are adoptees.
We're like, we'll do it ourself.We are so strong.
We got this. I'm like, don't back it up
because I was finding search angels.
They just find the information for you and they give it to you.
And then like, have a great day.Yeah.
And I was finding that adoptees were like, what do I say?
(09:51):
What do I, what do I do? And she's really not talking to
me or he's really not saying much, or they're worried.
And I'm like, huh, yeah, let me talk to him.
And that's how that started. And because the bio family has a
whole different questions then and they open up more to someone
(10:11):
else because you know, there's feelings and they don't want to
have them with the child. And the adoptee holds back to
when the adoptee is like, I wantto call you mom.
I don't want to be in your lot, you know.
So if we just take a pause and we all, I usually just talk to
them and then I come back to theadoptee and I say, Hey, how does
this make you feel? Do you want to keep going with
(10:32):
this? And then the birth mom will open
up. I have some birth moms, they
have a whole DNA test and they're like, DNA is wrong.
Don't know. We have to, yeah, we have to
navigate that. I'm like.
Well, wow. And they'll.
They'll come around, but. So do you, how do you prepare
(10:55):
the adoptee? I mean, do you kind of give them
specific like have you thought about this, like you said, you
know, have you thought about what you're going to call your
biological mom when you know, what do you, how is that all?
How are they going to fit into your life?
And do you talk about that at all?
Any of those things kind of things.
Yeah, I think in the expectationplace, because I think we also
(11:19):
as adopted, we don't want to say, mom, we don't know if we
can say that if it's going to make people uncomfortable.
And we talk about like once thishappens, have you told your
family? Have you told your kids if you
have them, like, are they ready for this because you're about to
go through something here? It's like coming out of the fog
times 10 when you're finding andyou need support.
(11:43):
And I, I will love you and support you and hold your hand
and listen to you on the phone. But you need, you know, support
within your community and your home.
Yeah, and you're spouse and yourkids probably need it too.
I mean, what if your kid doesn'twant to call her grandma or, you
know, you almost have to confer with them and you know, well,
what do you, what do you want? How do you want this person to
(12:04):
be in your life? Do you want this person do?
You want this person? Do you want?
I mean, they may have a grandma already that they're connected
with and they're like, well, I don't know this person like, you
know. And kids are like, why do you
care? Yeah.
I don't think a lot of adoptees think about that part though,
that there's some collateral people that are also involved
(12:25):
that you have to kind of think about too, which kind of sucks
because aren't we always thinking of everybody else?
Yes. Like our whole life.
So here we go again. I gotta think.
Of We're like the Oscar goes too.
Yeah, exactly, exactly. I've won many Oscars.
(12:47):
What changes would you like to see and how adoption is handled,
especially regarding birth records with the importance of
identity with adoptees. From kind of what you've been
seeing with the reunification, what do you think needs to be
different? You know, there's a whole
laundry list I have, but I thinkif we start with, even for the
(13:08):
studies we talked about in the last podcast with suicidality
and, you know, mental health issues, if we could just get an
amended birth certificate that says amended and adopted, then
there can be no secrets really. I mean, there can be.
I'm sure for if they, you know, a PS get weird, but then we can
(13:31):
be followed, tracked, studied. While I would just think
adoption's probably not necessary in 99.9% of cases.
There's other ways, but if we could just know so and we could
have the why should we pay for the information?
Why should we pay for DNA? Yeah, yeah.
(13:52):
Why can't we just have it? Right.
I really think that it should beillegal for anyone to sign away
our rights when we have no say. No consent.
It there should be no closed adoptions.
No. There should be no closed
adoptions. You should have that birth
certificate, and if you choose to do something with that
(14:16):
information, then you know, whatever.
But I don't think your identity and everything should be wiped
and you have no say in it ever, even when you're an adult.
Yeah, you can't undo it. Yeah, that's that should be
illegal. It is.
It's criminal really. I mean.
Yeah, if you did that to anybodyelse.
I know it would be trafficking or you know.
(14:36):
Like, yeah, we're just going to wipe you.
Yeah, yeah. Can you share a particularly
memorable reunion story with us anonymously?
Yes, that you facilitated. I did a reunification for
(14:56):
someone that was her parents didnot approve this thought.
No what are what? He shamed this person for this,
for searching yes, and told her lies about her birth.
That's why they didn't want her to search.
(15:17):
God forbid we get our truth. And we started and I found a
brother and then I found a sister and the sister said mom
also has two other children out there.
And reading the records of mom, it was so sad.
(15:40):
It was so sad, you know, and I think once a woman relinquishes,
like then the second or third, the woman's has to be broken if
they're human. And so that started and then we
found uncles and aunts and the adoptee was able to actually
(16:02):
move into her mother's house. Her mother had passed and her
she moved into her mother's house with her uncle because the
parents were like, and, and I got to go up there and meet all
the family and I was so excited.I was like, yes, I'm flying, I
am coming to you. We're going to have a whole
family reunion and the search goes on.
(16:24):
We have one last sibling to find, but wow, we're almost
there. Wow.
Yeah, thing. How has your role changed with
the technology now at the DNA testing and, you know, Facebook?
And what do you think the benefits?
Well, obviously the benefits arekind of obvious, but what are
(16:45):
the challenges with these tools as well?
Well, they're not always right. So you need to look at all your
tools and then compare. It's almost like I feel like I
should have one of those crime scene like or like with the.
Yeah. The strength.
This person liked this person's comment on Facebook and also you
know when I Oh my. Gosh, do you dig that much?
(17:06):
I'll. Like, Oh yes, who are you?
And we find you. So there is limitations, but
it's so much easier than it was.I'm not really great with DNAI
don't I can look if DNA tells methere's a Mama, I'm like, oh,
I'll find her, but I'm not good at digging.
I don't understand symptom organs.
I will phone a friend and say you.
(17:28):
Know. Yeah.
Help. Yeah, what?
Does this mean? Because I started searching
before that, but the tools are so much better.
But also privacy has become a different thing.
So birth indexes are no longer online and they were a few
decades ago. Wow.
Yeah. Oh Dang, So what?
How do you start? What do you start with?
(17:49):
You just like with what they know, I guess.
And. I usually start and I just say,
OK, Are you sure you're ready? I need some information.
And then it's it's I tell you 99% of the time they don't.
They say I don't have any information.
And I said, oh, you do. I know you do.
It's up here. No, it's closed.
I said I know. So we talk about the story and
(18:11):
then I call them back in a week and say, let's say the same
story to me again. And more and more comes out.
I think I heard she was in, you know, and she went to this high
school, but I don't know, or, and I'm like, high school's
great. Let's get into the yearbooks and
let's do the things. And then I just start from
there. Whatever, because, you know, you
(18:34):
have nowhere to start If they haven't done DNA and some
adoptees don't want to do DNA, they're scared of it.
So we start with what they know.We start in the town and
sometimes it's talking to old neighbors around areas and
especially if it's a small town,it's easier.
(18:55):
They always know who that pregnant girl was.
Yeah, yeah. Disappeared, yeah, but adoptees
have more information then. I think they think a lot of
times. What are some of the most
challenging searches you've worked on and and how do you
stay motivated when it gets complicated and lengthy?
(19:18):
You know, I've, I've been working on one for almost two
years, finding the rest of the story.
And then as pieces come together, it's really hard to
tell the adoptee who is related to these people that it's not so
great. There's some stuff going on in
(19:38):
there. There's abuse that will, I don't
want to have to tell you this about your mother.
I don't want to have to tell youwhat your father did, things
like that. And then because I think it's
important for answers, but also you need to know this and this.
(19:59):
Yeah. So how do you deliver news like
that? I mean.
I'm just, you know, we all want truth.
We don't like lies. Yeah.
So I'm like, Are you ready to RIP the Band-Aid off?
Sit down. Let's sit down.
I'll be here. We can cry together.
I want to cry. Also, you know, you were a
(20:20):
product of, you know, it could be incest or your father was a
pedophile. There's so many.
That gets weird. Yeah.
And that's their identity too, you know?
Right. So when we.
Say words like that, you're talking about them and that's
what's hard do. You ever feel like you're the
(20:41):
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lighter load. So in your experience, how
(21:09):
important is emotional readinessfor the adoptee and the birth
family? Is that a kind of an indicator
of success when you're emotionally ready?
Yes, you know, I can tell when an adoptee is ready because they
keep asking me questions and they keep trying to send me more
(21:31):
information. Now, birth families usually
think the adoptee is coming frommoney.
That's their first question. Jeez, please, I know.
I'm like, Oh my, we're not related to you in the eyes of
the law, ma'am. We're No, that's not no.
(21:53):
Oh, no. And then a lot of times it's
just, you know, like when you and I were born, Mamas didn't
say that to their new husbands or they did and then they didn't
tell the children. So I just have to explain to the
bio family. We just start out with, hey,
(22:16):
they just want answers, health history, that's it.
They deserve that. You have that information.
You don't have to make contact. And then usually they give that
and they call me back a couple weeks later and say, well, we
are interested in knowing, you know, and then it kind of goes
from there. What do you think the ratio is
(22:37):
of? Like when you contact biological
family that are excited about reunion and not excited about
reunion, what do you think? It is usually it, it goes to,
it's like 80% excited, but then that drops to 50 really quickly.
(23:00):
And I don't know if that's outside influence on the
biological parent through kids, adult children, wives.
It goes down pretty quickly and that's the hardest part because
the adoptee, we get our hopes up.
This could be something I get tomeet people and then it goes
(23:22):
quiet. Wow.
Yeah, you probably. Then they start thinking, oh,
this person doesn't know. Oh, these people don't know.
Or yeah. And then maybe they're thinking
about where this person's going to fit in to, you know, if you
have kids, I could see some jealousy and like, you know,
with the siblings and. It's usually siblings and a
(23:45):
wife. Yeah.
That's where it comes. From and I think maybe you're
kind of blindsided by that, maybe not thinking that they
would feel that way, but I can see, I mean, I might feel that
way, I don't know. I don't know, you know.
It's wrong, but I'm just like. Yeah, it.
Is all complicated as far as yeah.
You know, you receive a call. Oh yeah, you're 40 year old.
(24:07):
Yeah, is that nobody knows about.
That nobody knows about. Yeah, maybe you do want to know
them, but nobody else. I want to have some that meet in
secret. They still meet in secret.
Yeah, like, well. OK.
That's sad. It is.
That is sad. Yeah.
I don't like that. I don't either.
I just say how do you advise adoptees to contact biological
(24:29):
family? Should they use a mediator or?
I think I think so. I say use a mediator, use
somebody that can talk the language of adoption.
If you don't use me, you don't use me.
You know, I'll give you your information.
Somebody that understands adoption and somebody that is
able to speak without emotions or surrounding adoption or being
(24:54):
a biological parent because bothsides are, they're both sides
are petrified, they're scared. And if you can just tell both
sides, that's normal. Yeah.
But yeah, I think use a mediator.
I know so many people that say, oh gosh, and they do the
weirdest things. Adopt.
We're so weird sometimes. We're like like private eyes and
(25:17):
stalkers. I was relieved that the
detectives that I hired would made contact, but I have seen on
Facebook and I can't remember where I saw it, but it was other
search angels that were saying, oh, no, you should make the call
because that might be the one and only time that you hear that
(25:39):
person's voice. You know, if they don't want to
talk to you and, and I, you know, I don't know that I feel
like I was grateful. I didn't want to be the one to
hear maybe a rejection or. I know that's.
You know. Are hesitant.
We're going to read into every word they say and eat, break and
pause, you know? Well, I'd be afraid I'd say
(26:01):
something wrong or dumb or something and then you know,
they would hang up. But I'm like, you've done this
before you, you handle it for me.
Thank you very much. I paid you quite a bit of money,
so you can do that for me. You're like.
Please take that money and earn it right.
What do adoptees and birth parents need to understand about
(26:25):
this process and how do they overcome the obligation piece of
the adoptive parents role in there?
They need to understand that they're still adoptive parents
and biological mothers or fathers need.
Well, we've all, I think, you know, myself, I've always felt
(26:45):
really timid about making a relationship with my daughter
because of that. And I think adoptees, even
though we can get out of our fog, there's layers and the
obligation piece, Oh my gosh, you know, it still layers up for
me. And to know that it it, it will
(27:08):
be bumpy and you might even be rejected and you might hear some
really bad news and tell both sides this.
You will know the truth and the answers.
Because I know you, Mama Daddy, have always thought about this
person. And I know you adoptee always
thought about these people. Right.
(27:29):
So if the adoptive parents are totally against it, what do you
advise adoptees? How do you advise an adoptee
that has to navigate that that really wants to search?
If they live with them, if they're younger, sometimes I'll
talk to the a PS and just say this isn't about you.
(27:51):
Sorry. How do?
You feel about being bad I. Don't like that?
What do you mean? What do you mean it's all about
me? I prayed for this child and some
of them come around, but a lot of them, you, my parents were
fine. They're fine with it.
(28:11):
But when I said I was rejected by my mother and my father
passed away, of course there's, you know, yeah, great.
Sorry. But getting over just knowing
that it can, it goes really bad a lot of times, especially if
they're living close to or with the APS, to just know they're
going to have some feelings. And, and I guess that is normal
(28:34):
to feel, you know, the adoptee is going to replace them.
The adoptive parent has a place in that child's life, but the
biological parents have an even greater place in the fact of
history. Health.
Yeah. What is your experience with
second rejections and reunions, and what advice do you have when
(28:58):
you have to navigate that part with adoptees?
It's so hard. It's just just saving space and
there's nothing you know there'snothing really to be done can
hope sometimes I'll still reach out to that family for them
(29:22):
every now and then just say hey,I just want to urge you to
really think about this. You know, XYZ adoptee is so
appreciative of the information.What do you do?
You just, you just put that as another like kind of nail in
your whatever it's, it's, it's heartbreaking to see.
(29:47):
Yeah. So you are still currently
helping people. How can people find you and and
what do you actually offer? Because I know you have a
website too and. I think a lot of people find me
through other people. I don't, I don't think on my
website that I talk about being a search Angel.
(30:08):
Sometimes if you open that floodgate, it's a lot, you know?
Yeah. There's a lot of people that
want to know and I'm on Facebookand people reach out to me or
get my number from somebody. But it's pretty easy.
You just look me up and if I have time and just know like
it's not going to, it could be overnight.
I've done an overnight like let's this is perfect.
(30:29):
Wow. And then there's like, here we
are two years later, still not having all the pieces, but yeah.
Yeah, and your website it's you got, you have DNA tests.
The DNA test, it's the answers we deserve and I just get
donations throughout them. It's not like a big thing, but
(30:51):
if you need a free DNA kit, you just go to the website and say
you need it and I put you on thewait list.
Send it out when it comes. Yeah, and if you're an adoptee
and want to donate, they can do that through the site as well.
They can do that through this site as well.
And then sometimes people get them for Christmas, couple of
(31:12):
them. And I'm like we, if you want,
you know, send it on over. I will pay it forward because I
just don't think we should ever have to pay the state for an
amended birth certificate, even DNA private detective to know
what is inherently ours, our information.
Yeah, Yeah. So what have we not covered
(31:34):
that? Can you think of anything that I
haven't asked you that about reunions?
I think we pretty much covered it about, you know, going in
with expectations, knowing how bio family can react, siblings
can react. They're scared, adoptees scared.
(31:59):
The biological family is usuallygoing to tell more to me as far
as how they feel. And so will the adoptee.
And then we all get on the phoneon three-way.
That's how we end it. We do do a three-way call.
Yeah, we do a three-way call. I'm like, are we all ready?
And then I drop out if they're talking and it's going into the
flow, I'm like, I'm out, you're great.
And then if it's quiet, I'm like, so adoptee would like to
(32:21):
know, you know, some hard questions they don't feel
comfortable asking. But I know we've talked about
it, Mom, you know, we get it going again.
Yeah. So what would you like those
struggling to find their biological families to know?
I think I can say it's worth it.Even with rejection, it's worth
(32:44):
it. And when you get to that place
when you're tired and you reallywant answers and you want to
stop this facade of you and findstart, start the work of you,
it's worth it. Yeah, even though it's hard.
Yeah, yeah. And I just want to add, you
(33:06):
know, to be compassionate and kind to yourself through that
process and really examine your feelings and feel all the
feelings and you know, you know,and I think the big piece too is
the expectations. Like you were saying, try not to
have any best that you can because you just don't know
(33:30):
what's going to happen or turn up.
So if you can, try not to have afairy tale of how it's going to
end or it go, you know, I think that's best.
Just kind of go with the flow and see how you feel through the
process and. Expect nothing.
Yeah, you know. Yeah.
And hope for the best and. Yeah.
(33:53):
Not many, not many, not many stay going.
Yeah. What percent do you think of the
ones that you've reunified, thatyou've heard?
I think that is like what do. You mean no?
I don't. I think they want to be the same
'cause they're from the same, they're the same, you know,
(34:14):
genetically. And then they just realize
there's so much time. Yeah.
You lived your whole life and this other person has their
whole life they've lived. A lot of times it ends up with
the siblings. I don't know if you ever found
any siblings. I have, but they were little.
Well, my two brothers were like 12:00 and 7:00.
(34:37):
So they were, you know, my sisters were older, but I didn't
really meet them. I don't know.
They just never well. See, it's always.
Something, yeah. That part.
(34:58):
Right. So yeah, I guess there was a
little bit there of worry. I didn't understand it, but
yeah, there was. So yeah, I didn't get to go to
my father's birth father's funeral because of it.
I wasn't told till three months later.
(35:19):
For all was said and done, 'cause I think, you know, there
was fear. Yep.
So it's. It is.
It's the fear. It's the fear.
Yeah, yeah. Or it just falls off, you know
you don't have anything and. I think we just feel like this
is biology, that our puzzle piece is gonna fit right into
there, you know, into the whole picture, and it's gonna be
(35:42):
perfect, right? Complete No.
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, we're usually the
oldest and there's like younger siblings that in college, even
younger than that, you know, that are.
Yeah. Rightfully their children.
(36:03):
I don't know how you know. I know.
To say that, but legally? Legally, yeah.
Yeah, well, I'm, I'm about to interview Larae Gerald about her
birth father and how she didn't have a say in his healthcare at
the end there. And so we're discussing that.
So be looking for that episode as well.
(36:25):
I. Will because that's the thing,
we don't have any rights, yeah. Yeah.
Well, thank you so much for everything that you do.
I mean, that's amazing and keep up the good work.
I know there's a lot of people that can't afford $4000 to find.
I couldn't get in. Biology.
(36:45):
Oh my God, so ridiculous. You know.
So anyway, I want to thank you for that and thank you for
coming on and talking about thissubject and sharing what you
have learned through the reunification process and giving
us a little bit of insight as tohow to navigate that.
Yeah, yeah, don't navigate. Call Shelly.
(37:10):
Own a friend? Phone a friend?
Yes. Thanks for coming on.
Thank you. Thank you, Karma Crew, for
joining me for this episode today.
If you would like to be a guest on the show, if you were an
adoptee, a birth mother, an adoptive parent and want to tell
your story, get in touch with meat mindyourownkarma@gmail.com.
(37:32):
Let's get your story on the podcast.
Are you struggling with navigating your adoption
journey? Somatic mindful guided imagery
can help. Get in touch with me at Somatic
Healing journeyssmgi@gmail.com or you can go to my website
somatichealingjourneys.com to learn more about me and this
(37:53):
somatic modality. I also offer free consultations
and you can schedule that right from my website.
As always, take what you need and leave what you don't.
And always remember to mind yourown karma.
I will see you next time. This podcast is created for
(38:14):
educational purposes by the telling of adoption experiences.
The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the
host or Mind Your Own Karma.
You know, I don't like adoption,period.
In the end, I don't think it's necessary.
And I think we see it more and more as we talk to other people
and hear their stories. And being a search Angel and
doing reunifications, I found out the stories weren't the same
as the adoptee was told. Hey there, it's Melissa Brunetti
(00:20):
and welcome to the Mind Your OwnKarma podcast.
Hey there, Karma crew. Thanks for joining me for this
episode of Mind Your Own Karma, The Adoption Chronicles.
Today again, I have Shelley Johnson on the show.
(00:43):
Shelley began her personal journey of searching for her
biological mother 20 years ago. After many dead ends, she hired
a private investigator $4000 and24 hours later her mother was
found. While she was excited and
scared, she was also mad. Why does any adoptee have to pay
for information that is inherently theirs?
(01:03):
This is where her journey began.As a search Angel, she
successfully honed the tools of searching and realized a common
denominator with the adoptees she searched for.
They had no clue how to make thefirst phone call.
They had high expectations and were not prepared for the roller
coaster ride that is reunification.
She began to not only search buthelp the adoptee and the
(01:26):
biological side with the transition of reunification.
Through the years, she has become the point person for
guiding both sides through this process.
It is her passion and love. Here is my interview with
Shelly. So we are welcoming Shelly again
to the show today. Hi Shelly.
Hi, so Shelley was on a week or so ago, and if you want to hear
(01:47):
her very fascinating story aboutbeing an adoptee, an adoptive
parent, birth mother, all the things, go back and listen to
that episode. I'll have the link in the show
notes. But today we're going to talk
about her role as a search Angeland I'm super excited about it.
So, Shelley, as you know, representing the triad, how has
(02:08):
your personal experience shaped your views on the adoption
process and the reunification process?
You know, I don't like adoption,period.
In the end, I don't think it's necessary and I think we see it
more and more as we talk to other people and hear their
stories. And being a search Angel and
(02:28):
doing reunifications, I found out the stories weren't the same
as the adoptee was told and thatblew my mind.
Or lied to over and over again. Yeah.
As an adoptee, what were the biggest challenges in searching
for your own biological family? Well, it was before DNA and I
(02:53):
had to search and it takes a lotto get to that point.
You know, you, you're, you're done, you're ready.
You need, you need to find the answers.
And I couldn't. And I and I had everything,
birth indexes and everything. I just didn't know that my birth
date had been changed. So I hired a Private Eye.
Did that make it hard for you toeven search because you had the
(03:14):
wrong birthday I mean. Yes, I couldn't I couldn't find
I looked at the birth index and I was like there's no anything
matching my weight is all I had to go by with only one person
listed, no father, but I did call a couple of people, but the
private I found my birth mother in 24 hours, $4000 later 24
(03:39):
hours. That's so crazy and.
I was like, this is not what? Yeah, how hard can this be?
I got to figure this out. Right.
Right. I'm not paying another 4 grand
to find my father right? And I bet you weren't even
thinking like that. Your birthday was different than
(04:00):
you that you have known forever.No, I don't know how I would
handle that. That's crazy, but what emotions
did you experience during your search and how did those
feelings evolve over time? I mean, did you meet your
biological family? Kind of tell us what happened
there. You know, the search in general,
(04:21):
I think for everyone, it's a, it's a roller coaster.
It's exciting and then it's scary and then you get the
information and you're like, what do I do?
What do I do? I contacted her and we spoke and
that was it. And she asked me to politely
stay out of her life and she informed me that my birth father
(04:42):
had died at a young age. But then DNA came out and we
can't keep those lies. Yep.
And by then I was searching actively for other people and
myself. And then when I found him, I
found him maybe tennis years ago, but he had just passed.
(05:06):
So what emotions did you go through personally going through
all this process? You know, you feel like an
imposter. I have another name.
I have another birth date. Who am I?
And then you get the pieces bit by bit, and then it's rejection.
Please stay out of my life. You know I haven't told anyone
(05:28):
about you. Are you ready?
For that, no, I don't think anyone's ready for that.
I think we have this idea in ourhead, even if we have great
adoptive parents, we're going tohave this bond with our
biological parents, you know, a mother daughter relationship or,
you know, with her father, Daddy's little girl, and still
(05:49):
more nuanced than that. Yeah.
I wasn't prepared. I was not prepared.
Yeah, What motivated you to become a search Angel?
All of that, all of that, and then searching deeper to find,
you know, my biological family on my paternal side and finding
I had brothers and I had friends.
(06:11):
You know, this is before Facebook when I started
searching that said like I'm looking too.
And I said, well, I'll try to help you.
I've not done this before, but Iwant to help you.
Don't pay money. Stop.
And then I would find one and then I would find another and it
just click, click, click. And I was like, OK, I got, I
(06:32):
have the tools. I know, I know a little bit more
where to look, how to look, where to dig.
And it started from there. How long?
Have you been doing this? Oh, almost 20 years.
Oh wow. Right in between my finding my
mother and my father. I didn't really get into it very
(06:54):
deep and doing reunifications till the past 10 years when it
became like my job. Your full time job.
Yes, I was not prepared for that.
How has being a search Angel changed your understanding of
adoption? Reunions, you know it.
(07:20):
I get really excited for the adoptee.
I'm searching for the biologicalparent, but I also have this
little like in my heart, like, please be prepared.
Let's be prepared. Let's talk about this.
What are your expectations? Because even if it goes well, it
can and less than a week. And if it goes bad, it can come
(07:42):
back up. But just hold on, buckle up,
it's a ride. Right.
What do you tell people when they're ready to search?
I mean, I say wow. I mean, it takes a while for us
to get there. Let's sit and honor this.
Are you really ready? Are you ready?
Because you might find some things you don't want to find
(08:04):
out. Might find out that everything's
changed about you. You were lied to.
You know your bio mom isn't a drug addict.
You weren't born premature. Your birthday.
Is not your birthday. Who are you?
Right and. You know, and that'll make,
that'll have feelings towards the adoptive, you'll have
(08:25):
feelings towards of course, their APS and the system, which
is fine, but it's a roller coaster for them.
So I'm just like, get ready, getready for it.
Yeah, not going to be great fun.Yeah.
But needed. I just interviewed a man today
that Sean wrote a book. He was transracial, but he was
(08:46):
raised white. He looked white.
He had blue eyes. And I love Sean.
Hey, Sean. Yeah, And that's such a crazy
story. Oh, my God.
And like, not having that identity and people are like,
you're black, you're black. And he's like, but I don't know.
I don't know. You know, I really don't know.
And that that was just a crazy story.
(09:06):
So yeah, listeners, he's coming on.
So let's wait for Sean. Wait.
Wait for Sean. But he's really, he's really
good. His story's very interesting.
Yeah. What are some of the common
challenges adoptees face that you see quite often during
reunification, and how do you help them navigate?
I always like to say, you know, don't, don't do this by
(09:29):
yourself. And we are adoptees.
We're like, we'll do it ourself.We are so strong.
We got this. I'm like, don't back it up
because I was finding search angels.
They just find the information for you and they give it to you.
And then like, have a great day.Yeah.
And I was finding that adoptees were like, what do I say?
(09:51):
What do I, what do I do? And she's really not talking to
me or he's really not saying much, or they're worried.
And I'm like, huh, yeah, let me talk to him.
And that's how that started. And because the bio family has a
whole different questions then and they open up more to someone
(10:11):
else because you know, there's feelings and they don't want to
have them with the child. And the adoptee holds back to
when the adoptee is like, I wantto call you mom.
I don't want to be in your lot, you know.
So if we just take a pause and we all, I usually just talk to
them and then I come back to theadoptee and I say, Hey, how does
this make you feel? Do you want to keep going with
(10:32):
this? And then the birth mom will open
up. I have some birth moms, they
have a whole DNA test and they're like, DNA is wrong.
Don't know. We have to, yeah, we have to
navigate that. I'm like.
Well, wow. And they'll.
They'll come around, but. So do you, how do you prepare
(10:55):
the adoptee? I mean, do you kind of give them
specific like have you thought about this, like you said, you
know, have you thought about what you're going to call your
biological mom when you know, what do you, how is that all?
How are they going to fit into your life?
And do you talk about that at all?
Any of those things kind of things.
Yeah, I think in the expectationplace, because I think we also
(11:19):
as adopted, we don't want to say, mom, we don't know if we
can say that if it's going to make people uncomfortable.
And we talk about like once thishappens, have you told your
family? Have you told your kids if you
have them, like, are they ready for this because you're about to
go through something here? It's like coming out of the fog
times 10 when you're finding andyou need support.
(11:43):
And I, I will love you and support you and hold your hand
and listen to you on the phone. But you need, you know, support
within your community and your home.
Yeah, and you're spouse and yourkids probably need it too.
I mean, what if your kid doesn'twant to call her grandma or, you
know, you almost have to confer with them and you know, well,
what do you, what do you want? How do you want this person to
(12:04):
be in your life? Do you want this person do?
You want this person? Do you want?
I mean, they may have a grandma already that they're connected
with and they're like, well, I don't know this person like, you
know. And kids are like, why do you
care? Yeah.
I don't think a lot of adoptees think about that part though,
that there's some collateral people that are also involved
(12:25):
that you have to kind of think about too, which kind of sucks
because aren't we always thinking of everybody else?
Yes. Like our whole life.
So here we go again. I gotta think.
Of We're like the Oscar goes too.
Yeah, exactly, exactly. I've won many Oscars.
(12:47):
What changes would you like to see and how adoption is handled,
especially regarding birth records with the importance of
identity with adoptees. From kind of what you've been
seeing with the reunification, what do you think needs to be
different? You know, there's a whole
laundry list I have, but I thinkif we start with, even for the
(13:08):
studies we talked about in the last podcast with suicidality
and, you know, mental health issues, if we could just get an
amended birth certificate that says amended and adopted, then
there can be no secrets really. I mean, there can be.
I'm sure for if they, you know, a PS get weird, but then we can
(13:31):
be followed, tracked, studied. While I would just think
adoption's probably not necessary in 99.9% of cases.
There's other ways, but if we could just know so and we could
have the why should we pay for the information?
Why should we pay for DNA? Yeah, yeah.
(13:52):
Why can't we just have it? Right.
I really think that it should beillegal for anyone to sign away
our rights when we have no say. No consent.
It there should be no closed adoptions.
No. There should be no closed
adoptions. You should have that birth
certificate, and if you choose to do something with that
(14:16):
information, then you know, whatever.
But I don't think your identity and everything should be wiped
and you have no say in it ever, even when you're an adult.
Yeah, you can't undo it. Yeah, that's that should be
illegal. It is.
It's criminal really. I mean.
Yeah, if you did that to anybodyelse.
I know it would be trafficking or you know.
(14:36):
Like, yeah, we're just going to wipe you.
Yeah, yeah. Can you share a particularly
memorable reunion story with us anonymously?
Yes, that you facilitated. I did a reunification for
(14:56):
someone that was her parents didnot approve this thought.
No what are what? He shamed this person for this,
for searching yes, and told her lies about her birth.
That's why they didn't want her to search.
(15:17):
God forbid we get our truth. And we started and I found a
brother and then I found a sister and the sister said mom
also has two other children out there.
And reading the records of mom, it was so sad.
(15:40):
It was so sad, you know, and I think once a woman relinquishes,
like then the second or third, the woman's has to be broken if
they're human. And so that started and then we
found uncles and aunts and the adoptee was able to actually
(16:02):
move into her mother's house. Her mother had passed and her
she moved into her mother's house with her uncle because the
parents were like, and, and I got to go up there and meet all
the family and I was so excited.I was like, yes, I'm flying, I
am coming to you. We're going to have a whole
family reunion and the search goes on.
(16:24):
We have one last sibling to find, but wow, we're almost
there. Wow.
Yeah, thing. How has your role changed with
the technology now at the DNA testing and, you know, Facebook?
And what do you think the benefits?
Well, obviously the benefits arekind of obvious, but what are
(16:45):
the challenges with these tools as well?
Well, they're not always right. So you need to look at all your
tools and then compare. It's almost like I feel like I
should have one of those crime scene like or like with the.
Yeah. The strength.
This person liked this person's comment on Facebook and also you
know when I Oh my. Gosh, do you dig that much?
(17:06):
I'll. Like, Oh yes, who are you?
And we find you. So there is limitations, but
it's so much easier than it was.I'm not really great with DNAI
don't I can look if DNA tells methere's a Mama, I'm like, oh,
I'll find her, but I'm not good at digging.
I don't understand symptom organs.
I will phone a friend and say you.
(17:28):
Know. Yeah.
Help. Yeah, what?
Does this mean? Because I started searching
before that, but the tools are so much better.
But also privacy has become a different thing.
So birth indexes are no longer online and they were a few
decades ago. Wow.
Yeah. Oh Dang, So what?
How do you start? What do you start with?
(17:49):
You just like with what they know, I guess.
And. I usually start and I just say,
OK, Are you sure you're ready? I need some information.
And then it's it's I tell you 99% of the time they don't.
They say I don't have any information.
And I said, oh, you do. I know you do.
It's up here. No, it's closed.
I said I know. So we talk about the story and
(18:11):
then I call them back in a week and say, let's say the same
story to me again. And more and more comes out.
I think I heard she was in, you know, and she went to this high
school, but I don't know, or, and I'm like, high school's
great. Let's get into the yearbooks and
let's do the things. And then I just start from
there. Whatever, because, you know, you
(18:34):
have nowhere to start If they haven't done DNA and some
adoptees don't want to do DNA, they're scared of it.
So we start with what they know.We start in the town and
sometimes it's talking to old neighbors around areas and
especially if it's a small town,it's easier.
(18:55):
They always know who that pregnant girl was.
Yeah, yeah. Disappeared, yeah, but adoptees
have more information then. I think they think a lot of
times. What are some of the most
challenging searches you've worked on and and how do you
stay motivated when it gets complicated and lengthy?
(19:18):
You know, I've, I've been working on one for almost two
years, finding the rest of the story.
And then as pieces come together, it's really hard to
tell the adoptee who is related to these people that it's not so
great. There's some stuff going on in
(19:38):
there. There's abuse that will, I don't
want to have to tell you this about your mother.
I don't want to have to tell youwhat your father did, things
like that. And then because I think it's
important for answers, but also you need to know this and this.
(19:59):
Yeah. So how do you deliver news like
that? I mean.
I'm just, you know, we all want truth.
We don't like lies. Yeah.
So I'm like, Are you ready to RIP the Band-Aid off?
Sit down. Let's sit down.
I'll be here. We can cry together.
I want to cry. Also, you know, you were a
(20:20):
product of, you know, it could be incest or your father was a
pedophile. There's so many.
That gets weird. Yeah.
And that's their identity too, you know?
Right. So when we.
Say words like that, you're talking about them and that's
what's hard do. You ever feel like you're the
(20:41):
only one struggling and feeling stuck?
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lighter load. So in your experience, how
(21:09):
important is emotional readinessfor the adoptee and the birth
family? Is that a kind of an indicator
of success when you're emotionally ready?
Yes, you know, I can tell when an adoptee is ready because they
keep asking me questions and they keep trying to send me more
(21:31):
information. Now, birth families usually
think the adoptee is coming frommoney.
That's their first question. Jeez, please, I know.
I'm like, Oh my, we're not related to you in the eyes of
the law, ma'am. We're No, that's not no.
(21:53):
Oh, no. And then a lot of times it's
just, you know, like when you and I were born, Mamas didn't
say that to their new husbands or they did and then they didn't
tell the children. So I just have to explain to the
bio family. We just start out with, hey,
(22:16):
they just want answers, health history, that's it.
They deserve that. You have that information.
You don't have to make contact. And then usually they give that
and they call me back a couple weeks later and say, well, we
are interested in knowing, you know, and then it kind of goes
from there. What do you think the ratio is
(22:37):
of? Like when you contact biological
family that are excited about reunion and not excited about
reunion, what do you think? It is usually it, it goes to,
it's like 80% excited, but then that drops to 50 really quickly.
(23:00):
And I don't know if that's outside influence on the
biological parent through kids, adult children, wives.
It goes down pretty quickly and that's the hardest part because
the adoptee, we get our hopes up.
This could be something I get tomeet people and then it goes
(23:22):
quiet. Wow.
Yeah, you probably. Then they start thinking, oh,
this person doesn't know. Oh, these people don't know.
Or yeah. And then maybe they're thinking
about where this person's going to fit in to, you know, if you
have kids, I could see some jealousy and like, you know,
with the siblings and. It's usually siblings and a
(23:45):
wife. Yeah.
That's where it comes. From and I think maybe you're
kind of blindsided by that, maybe not thinking that they
would feel that way, but I can see, I mean, I might feel that
way, I don't know. I don't know, you know.
It's wrong, but I'm just like. Yeah, it.
Is all complicated as far as yeah.
You know, you receive a call. Oh yeah, you're 40 year old.
(24:07):
Yeah, is that nobody knows about.
That nobody knows about. Yeah, maybe you do want to know
them, but nobody else. I want to have some that meet in
secret. They still meet in secret.
Yeah, like, well. OK.
That's sad. It is.
That is sad. Yeah.
I don't like that. I don't either.
I just say how do you advise adoptees to contact biological
(24:29):
family? Should they use a mediator or?
I think I think so. I say use a mediator, use
somebody that can talk the language of adoption.
If you don't use me, you don't use me.
You know, I'll give you your information.
Somebody that understands adoption and somebody that is
able to speak without emotions or surrounding adoption or being
(24:54):
a biological parent because bothsides are, they're both sides
are petrified, they're scared. And if you can just tell both
sides, that's normal. Yeah.
But yeah, I think use a mediator.
I know so many people that say, oh gosh, and they do the
weirdest things. Adopt.
We're so weird sometimes. We're like like private eyes and
(25:17):
stalkers. I was relieved that the
detectives that I hired would made contact, but I have seen on
Facebook and I can't remember where I saw it, but it was other
search angels that were saying, oh, no, you should make the call
because that might be the one and only time that you hear that
(25:39):
person's voice. You know, if they don't want to
talk to you and, and I, you know, I don't know that I feel
like I was grateful. I didn't want to be the one to
hear maybe a rejection or. I know that's.
You know. Are hesitant.
We're going to read into every word they say and eat, break and
pause, you know? Well, I'd be afraid I'd say
(26:01):
something wrong or dumb or something and then you know,
they would hang up. But I'm like, you've done this
before you, you handle it for me.
Thank you very much. I paid you quite a bit of money,
so you can do that for me. You're like.
Please take that money and earn it right.
What do adoptees and birth parents need to understand about
(26:25):
this process and how do they overcome the obligation piece of
the adoptive parents role in there?
They need to understand that they're still adoptive parents
and biological mothers or fathers need.
Well, we've all, I think, you know, myself, I've always felt
(26:45):
really timid about making a relationship with my daughter
because of that. And I think adoptees, even
though we can get out of our fog, there's layers and the
obligation piece, Oh my gosh, you know, it still layers up for
me. And to know that it it, it will
(27:08):
be bumpy and you might even be rejected and you might hear some
really bad news and tell both sides this.
You will know the truth and the answers.
Because I know you, Mama Daddy, have always thought about this
person. And I know you adoptee always
thought about these people. Right.
(27:29):
So if the adoptive parents are totally against it, what do you
advise adoptees? How do you advise an adoptee
that has to navigate that that really wants to search?
If they live with them, if they're younger, sometimes I'll
talk to the a PS and just say this isn't about you.
(27:51):
Sorry. How do?
You feel about being bad I. Don't like that?
What do you mean? What do you mean it's all about
me? I prayed for this child and some
of them come around, but a lot of them, you, my parents were
fine. They're fine with it.
(28:11):
But when I said I was rejected by my mother and my father
passed away, of course there's, you know, yeah, great.
Sorry. But getting over just knowing
that it can, it goes really bad a lot of times, especially if
they're living close to or with the APS, to just know they're
going to have some feelings. And, and I guess that is normal
(28:34):
to feel, you know, the adoptee is going to replace them.
The adoptive parent has a place in that child's life, but the
biological parents have an even greater place in the fact of
history. Health.
Yeah. What is your experience with
second rejections and reunions, and what advice do you have when
(28:58):
you have to navigate that part with adoptees?
It's so hard. It's just just saving space and
there's nothing you know there'snothing really to be done can
hope sometimes I'll still reach out to that family for them
(29:22):
every now and then just say hey,I just want to urge you to
really think about this. You know, XYZ adoptee is so
appreciative of the information.What do you do?
You just, you just put that as another like kind of nail in
your whatever it's, it's, it's heartbreaking to see.
(29:47):
Yeah. So you are still currently
helping people. How can people find you and and
what do you actually offer? Because I know you have a
website too and. I think a lot of people find me
through other people. I don't, I don't think on my
website that I talk about being a search Angel.
(30:08):
Sometimes if you open that floodgate, it's a lot, you know?
Yeah. There's a lot of people that
want to know and I'm on Facebookand people reach out to me or
get my number from somebody. But it's pretty easy.
You just look me up and if I have time and just know like
it's not going to, it could be overnight.
I've done an overnight like let's this is perfect.
(30:29):
Wow. And then there's like, here we
are two years later, still not having all the pieces, but yeah.
Yeah, and your website it's you got, you have DNA tests.
The DNA test, it's the answers we deserve and I just get
donations throughout them. It's not like a big thing, but
(30:51):
if you need a free DNA kit, you just go to the website and say
you need it and I put you on thewait list.
Send it out when it comes. Yeah, and if you're an adoptee
and want to donate, they can do that through the site as well.
They can do that through this site as well.
And then sometimes people get them for Christmas, couple of
(31:12):
them. And I'm like we, if you want,
you know, send it on over. I will pay it forward because I
just don't think we should ever have to pay the state for an
amended birth certificate, even DNA private detective to know
what is inherently ours, our information.
Yeah, Yeah. So what have we not covered
(31:34):
that? Can you think of anything that I
haven't asked you that about reunions?
I think we pretty much covered it about, you know, going in
with expectations, knowing how bio family can react, siblings
can react. They're scared, adoptees scared.
(31:59):
The biological family is usuallygoing to tell more to me as far
as how they feel. And so will the adoptee.
And then we all get on the phoneon three-way.
That's how we end it. We do do a three-way call.
Yeah, we do a three-way call. I'm like, are we all ready?
And then I drop out if they're talking and it's going into the
flow, I'm like, I'm out, you're great.
And then if it's quiet, I'm like, so adoptee would like to
(32:21):
know, you know, some hard questions they don't feel
comfortable asking. But I know we've talked about
it, Mom, you know, we get it going again.
Yeah. So what would you like those
struggling to find their biological families to know?
I think I can say it's worth it.Even with rejection, it's worth
(32:44):
it. And when you get to that place
when you're tired and you reallywant answers and you want to
stop this facade of you and findstart, start the work of you,
it's worth it. Yeah, even though it's hard.
Yeah, yeah. And I just want to add, you
(33:06):
know, to be compassionate and kind to yourself through that
process and really examine your feelings and feel all the
feelings and you know, you know,and I think the big piece too is
the expectations. Like you were saying, try not to
have any best that you can because you just don't know
(33:30):
what's going to happen or turn up.
So if you can, try not to have afairy tale of how it's going to
end or it go, you know, I think that's best.
Just kind of go with the flow and see how you feel through the
process and. Expect nothing.
Yeah, you know. Yeah.
And hope for the best and. Yeah.
(33:53):
Not many, not many, not many stay going.
Yeah. What percent do you think of the
ones that you've reunified, thatyou've heard?
I think that is like what do. You mean no?
I don't. I think they want to be the same
'cause they're from the same, they're the same, you know,
(34:14):
genetically. And then they just realize
there's so much time. Yeah.
You lived your whole life and this other person has their
whole life they've lived. A lot of times it ends up with
the siblings. I don't know if you ever found
any siblings. I have, but they were little.
Well, my two brothers were like 12:00 and 7:00.
(34:37):
So they were, you know, my sisters were older, but I didn't
really meet them. I don't know.
They just never well. See, it's always.
Something, yeah. That part.
(34:58):
Right. So yeah, I guess there was a
little bit there of worry. I didn't understand it, but
yeah, there was. So yeah, I didn't get to go to
my father's birth father's funeral because of it.
I wasn't told till three months later.
(35:19):
For all was said and done, 'cause I think, you know, there
was fear. Yep.
So it's. It is.
It's the fear. It's the fear.
Yeah, yeah. Or it just falls off, you know
you don't have anything and. I think we just feel like this
is biology, that our puzzle piece is gonna fit right into
there, you know, into the whole picture, and it's gonna be
(35:42):
perfect, right? Complete No.
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, we're usually the
oldest and there's like younger siblings that in college, even
younger than that, you know, that are.
Yeah. Rightfully their children.
(36:03):
I don't know how you know. I know.
To say that, but legally? Legally, yeah.
Yeah, well, I'm, I'm about to interview Larae Gerald about her
birth father and how she didn't have a say in his healthcare at
the end there. And so we're discussing that.
So be looking for that episode as well.
(36:25):
I. Will because that's the thing,
we don't have any rights, yeah. Yeah.
Well, thank you so much for everything that you do.
I mean, that's amazing and keep up the good work.
I know there's a lot of people that can't afford $4000 to find.
I couldn't get in. Biology.
(36:45):
Oh my God, so ridiculous. You know.
So anyway, I want to thank you for that and thank you for
coming on and talking about thissubject and sharing what you
have learned through the reunification process and giving
us a little bit of insight as tohow to navigate that.
Yeah, yeah, don't navigate. Call Shelly.
(37:10):
Own a friend? Phone a friend?
Yes. Thanks for coming on.
Thank you. Thank you, Karma Crew, for
joining me for this episode today.
If you would like to be a guest on the show, if you were an
adoptee, a birth mother, an adoptive parent and want to tell
your story, get in touch with meat mindyourownkarma@gmail.com.
(37:32):
Let's get your story on the podcast.
Are you struggling with navigating your adoption
journey? Somatic mindful guided imagery
can help. Get in touch with me at Somatic
Healing journeyssmgi@gmail.com or you can go to my website
somatichealingjourneys.com to learn more about me and this
(37:53):
somatic modality. I also offer free consultations
and you can schedule that right from my website.
As always, take what you need and leave what you don't.
And always remember to mind yourown karma.
I will see you next time. This podcast is created for
(38:14):
educational purposes by the telling of adoption experiences.
The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the
host or Mind Your Own Karma.
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