November 19, 2024 • 44 mins
Welcome back to the show, Karma Crew! I’m excited to reintroduce Julie Brumley, an inspiring adoptee and somatic practitioner who is dedicated to helping fellow adoptees heal and find their identity. Last week she shared her personal adoption journey, giving us a glimpse into how those experiences shaped her and influenced her work.
Today, we’ll dive deeper into her healing journey and explore how somatic therapy has been a game changer for both her and her clients. Get ready to gain insights into overcoming trauma, fostering a sense of belonging, and uncovering the layers of identity that many adoptees face. Let’s welcome Julie back to the show!
LINKS:
Website - https://www.cominghometoself.co
Insta - https://www.instagram.com/juliebrumley_/
FB - https://www.facebook.com/julierasbrum
FB community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/theresilienceprojectforadoptees/
Connect With Melissa:
-Email Melissa here: mindyourownkarma@gmail.com
-Click here for the Mind Your Own Karma Website
-Click here for Somatic Mindful Guided Imagery
-Find Mind Your Own Karma on Facebook
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-Find Mind Your Own Karma on YouTube
-Click here for a comprehensive list of adoptee/adoptee trauma-informed practitioners.
Dial 988 for the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.
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Mind Your Own Karma – The Adoption Chronicles Podcast educates listeners on the realities of adoption through the stories of adoptees, birth parents, and adoptive parents. We delve into their journeys, exploring identity, the emotional impacts of adoption, and the complexities that are involved when a child is removed from their biology.
We also tackle tough topics like transracial adoption and adoption ethics, featuring experts and advocates. By sharing these diverse perspectives we hope to not only educate the world, but also give hope and healing to those deeply affected by adoption trauma.
*** This podcast's mission is on adoption education. If you have an expertise that you think would be beneficial to anyone touched by adoption and would like to be on the podcast,
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Before she even asked me, I'm like, Oh my gosh, Laura, I feel
this in my roots. I feel it like it's vibrating.
And she was like you. What?
Hey there, it's Melissa Brunetti, and welcome to the
(00:21):
Mind Your Own Karma podcast. Welcome back to the Show Karma
crew. I'm excited to reintroduce Julie
Brumley, an inspiring adoptee and therapist and somatic worker
(00:43):
who is dedicated to helping fellow adoptees heal and find
their identity. Last week, she shared her
personal adoption journey, giving us a glimpse into how
those experiences shaped her andinfluenced her work.
Today, we'll dive deeper into our healing journey and explore
how somatic modalities has been a game changer for both her and
(01:05):
her clients. Get ready to gain insights into
overcoming trauma, fostering a sense of belonging, and
uncovering the layers of identity that many adoptees
face. Let's welcome Julie Brimley back
to the show. We are welcoming Julie back to
the show today. Hi, Julie.
(01:25):
Hey, it's good to be here. OK, so this is where I'm geeking
out over all your healing journey and what you're offering
people. I can't say enough how what we
go through can really be a superpower, and I saw you talk
about that on your website. So what do you think about
(01:51):
abandonment trauma and how we can turn that into a superpower?
Yeah, it honestly it's the exactopposite.
So we self abandoned very commonly as adoptees, don't we?
Where we push through and feel like if I just, if I just keep
going this direction, I'm gonna be OK.
But then we burn out and we are exhausted, We get sick, blah
(02:12):
blah. And normal people do this too.
I'm not just and we're normal. That sounded bad.
But everybody has this thing. I think we can do it to the
degree where we literally harm ourselves in the process
sometimes. So there's that piece and then
there's the whole chameleon idea, right?
Like I need to do whatever I need to do to fit in in order to
be OK. So I'm gonna self abandoned who
(02:33):
I authentically am in order to be accepted over here, you know,
and people pleasing and all those different things that that
we self abandoned in. So I think the opposite of that
is learning how to love ourselves.
And what does that even look like?
Well, I think it looks a lot like getting to know those inner
(02:57):
voices, getting to know those critics that are there, getting
to know how our body responds tothose critics.
I think a lot of times, and thisis what's interesting about what
we learn in the counseling fieldis it's very mind focused.
It's very, you know, like cognitive behavioral therapy,
you change the thoughts and you change everything.
(03:18):
Well, that's somewhat true, but what they've forgotten is that
missing piece. And I think what we're beginning
to discover is that only takes us so far.
And So what I have learned is not only do I want to harness
those thoughts, but I want to understand the feelings that are
attached to them. I want to understand where they
(03:39):
show up in my body. Because if I can make that
connection to where they show upin my body, which you probably
know this, that 20% of the messages that we receive go from
our brain, our mind to our body and 80% go from our body to our
brain. So why would I want to spend
that much time here when I need to spend more time in my body
(03:59):
understanding what it means whenthese things show up there?
Like, for example, let's say a triggering event happens.
I was on a coaching call, I workfor another coach, and I was on
one of her calls and she was talking about the satisfaction
cycle of attachment. Have you heard of this?
No. Oh.
My gosh. I can kind of hear the
(04:20):
correlation I meant. Yeah, I can.
I think I know where you're going with it, but yeah.
Fully triggered me. Like as she's talking, she
talked about the different pieces of it, about pushing out,
you know, and then reaching and being taken by the mother and
skin to skin. And, and then there was like
this yield part was at the end where you just surrender because
(04:43):
you are safe. And as she's saying all of this,
my whole body started shaking and she saw me on screen and she
was like, Julie, what's going on?
I just started sobbing. I just started sobbing.
I was like, this is not what I experienced.
This is not what adoptees experience.
We experienced rupture from the minute we're born.
(05:04):
And it just, it just like flooded me, you know?
But what helped me move through that trigger was being able to
be witnessed and experienced andseen and heard.
And they probably didn't understand because none of them
were adoptees, but they just held that space for me until I
(05:25):
was able to actually move through that trigger.
But it started in my body. My whole body started shaking.
And that used to happen before, before I had any body knowledge,
but I didn't know what it was. And so I just kind of like, oh,
I'm shaking, I'm tremor, there'stremors, whoops.
I don't know what's happening. Never really delved into it.
(05:46):
And then once I got into my master's program, I realized
that's a trauma response. No wonder.
Holy cow, that's crazy. So you know, that's the
validation part's huge because alot of times I'll say something
to somebody. And this happened recently to me
(06:06):
just a few days ago with someonethat I was doing somatic mindful
guided imagery with. They were guiding me and she was
asking me, you know, beforehand like what I wanted to get out of
the session that day and stuff. And so we were discussing that
and at one point we, I just started bawling and I said I
(06:28):
just needed to feel like I was picked.
And it all stems back from my adoption.
I want to feel picked. And she's like, oh, well, we all
feel that. That's kind of just like a, you
know, And she totally like, justlike, oh, everyone feels that
way. I think she was trying to make
me feel better, but it was so invalidating.
And I can't tell you on how manylevels that I get that response
(06:51):
when I bring up that it's something that is bothering me
is it stems from my adoption. And I get kind of just Pooh
poohed like, oh, well, everybodyhas that, don't you?
Don't you think everybody has that?
You know, not just you. And that is so invalidating.
And I'm not helpful. You don't.
It's not to the yeah, maybe everybody does experience it,
(07:14):
but not to the level that we did.
Or do you know? Very, very true.
Or they'll go to that place of well, you were chosen by your
your adopted parents. OK, I.
That OK, Yeah, that erases everything.
I so then I forgot. Everything off of it.
Oh, I'm so much better now, thank you for reminding.
(07:38):
Me. God, that's good right there.
Oh yeah, thanks for bringing that to mind.
Yeah. That's the reason why gratitude,
the word grateful, could be triggering for us adoptees.
Even though I love gratitude, but when people use it that way,
I'm just like, oh, I wanna like flip them off.
Yeah, I get what you, but you had a great adoptive parents.
So and then there's like this pause like so it's all good,
(08:02):
right, You know? Yes, I did.
But there's a but too, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
There's a but, yeah, totally. So how did you get introduced to
somatic work? What dreams?
So, so the way that started was,like I told you earlier, in the
previous podcast, I had gotten my master's in counseling and
(08:27):
they talked about somatic work. Like they touched not somatic
work, but they talked about somatics.
So I knew. And how?
When was this about? Oh, gosh.
I graduated in 2014, so started my life coaching practice in
2015. So it's not like it was 10 years
ago. And so they did bring up body.
(08:49):
So I mean, I knew that that was important, but there was no
like, no tools, no nothing aboutany of that.
So I started working with addictive behaviors and had
groups of, of women that I worked with.
And I remember probably 18, Yeah.
(09:10):
So probably three years into my practice, I knew something was
missing because I couldn't, I, Iknew, I just knew it.
Like deep within me, I knew something is missing.
And what I'm offering, I don't know what it is.
And once I find out what it is, I will tell you is what I told
(09:30):
all my groups. And then, and then when was
that? Was it 2022?
So another four years later. I mean, it took a while, man.
One of the women who had gone through one of my groups had
found semantic work and she was posting about it on her
Instagram. And as I was watching it, I felt
(09:54):
so much, not her fault, but I felt so much shame and
embarrassment about the fact that this is the missing piece.
Where the heck have I been? And how have I not known that
this, I mean, I beat myself up and I wasn't in a great place in
my marriage at the time. So I just felt like such an
unbelievable disappointment in so many areas.
(10:14):
And here I am still helping women and I don't have this
figured out. Like, what is wrong with me?
And so I I messaged her and we had a call and, and she would
tell you, I was like, if you could picture what Shane looked
like. I was like, you know, punch her
(10:35):
old talking to her on the phone just felt so deflated, defeated,
disappointment, all of those things like my whole body read
that vibe was everywhere. And I was in a full on shame
spiral because I wasn't in a great place in my marriage And I
I was like, I need to do everything to figure this out.
I'm the problem, I'm the broken one.
(10:56):
I'm the defective one, right? Which I knew all of these
thoughts now, but they were really, really, really loud.
And so I started doing isn't that funny?
You noticed my hand went in my heart right as I was talking
about that, which is a somatic tool, by the way.
Y'all, It's pretty great. It's one of those things that
helped me really learn how to tune to my body.
(11:18):
But so I started working with her and it was basically based
upon the chakra system. So, and for me, I was raised
very in the, in the Christian world, still very, very love
God. He and I are awesome.
Spent a lot of time with him every day, but not everybody
(11:38):
does and that's fine. So chakras, I was like, like,
what are you talking about? I can't do that.
But I think what I received and what I heard was like, you need
to be open. You need to be open to this.
And so as I started listening and then I started reading stuff
about it and realized it's literally just nerve bundles
(11:59):
connected to the vagus nerve. That's all it is.
And the vagus nerve runs from the base of our skull to the
base of our spine. And those nerve bundles where
the chakras are have their own little brains.
And I just need to get to know these pieces of me.
And so that first month I literally started listening to
every Brené Brown book that existed because I needed to
(12:21):
reduce my shame on repeat. Once I kind of had, once I was
able to kind of get out of that spiral, I started using the hand
over heart. That literally was the first
somatic tool I used. And it was whenever I started
noticing it was beating too fastor I just was feeling a sadness,
(12:42):
like a almost a stabbing pain. There was just like this grief
that was living there, which notsurprisingly, that chakra is
tied to grief and love. And so I was losing some of
that. I was losing that connection.
So no wonder it felt that way. So that's where I started was
hand over heart. And as I began to, and it was so
(13:04):
weird because I remember my family at the time going, what
are you doing? You're being weird.
To them, it was weird, but it just it was the beginning of me
first tuning into my body and then I did EMDR again because,
and this is crazy, it was right after a pretty traumatic
(13:26):
situation happened. I realized I had back slid a
little bit. I needed to kind of get back in
touch with my baby self. So I went back to my EMDR person
who had a she was adoption competent.
She's not an adoptee. And so she worked me through
some of this and I was in this program now I was in this
somatic program learning and sheasked me before she even
(13:48):
actually, she didn't even have to ask me before she even asked
me. I'm like, Oh my gosh, Laura, I
feel this in my root. I feel it like it's vibrating.
And she was like you what? It's like, I feel it there.
It's in my gut. I can tell you exactly what's
happening. And she was like, well, what are
you doing? I don't you didn't.
You couldn't do this before. So we were able to get through,
(14:10):
you know, the four months that we did before, four to six
months that we did before. And two, because that somatic
work that I had done, just thoselittle things like a little bit
of yoga here, a little bit of hand over heart, things like
coloring. I mean, that sounds kind of
weird, but to me anything creative seemed like a waste of
(14:30):
time. I didn't have time for that.
My life was too busy. Yeah, I know the adoption fog
can feel thick at times, but imagine the fog lifting,
becoming just a few passing clouds, appearing and
disappearing, finally allowing you to see through.
With somatic, mindful, guided imagery, you can navigate the
(14:51):
fog of adoption, step into a life of clear insight, and live
the way you've always dreamed. It's time to step out of the
fog. Let smgi be your lighthouse to
clarity and freedom. Free consultations and more
information available at SomaticHealing journeys.com but.
(15:11):
Once I started making time for that, it it like opened up all
of this space for me to just be and I wasn't good at just being.
I'm a doer, and so being still allowed me to open up to new
healing opportunities. That and I would hear I would
receive from God things that I couldn't have ever received
(15:32):
before. And that was all because I
slowed down, put my hand over myheart, and paid attention
curiously to what was going on in my body.
Yeah, yeah. And as adoptees, we don't pay
attention to what's going on in our bodies because it's too
painful, too scary. What's going to happen if I
(15:53):
check in? What's going to happen if I tap
in And you know, I would say it's like the lid's on the
pressure cooker barely right now.
And if I do that, that lid's going to fly off.
And what's going to happen, You know, it's.
True, like we fear that we'll cry forever.
Yeah, yeah, I mean it. You know, you can't sugar coat
(16:16):
the healing process. It, it, it can be painful and
frightening and scary and, but in the long run, it's so worth
it, you know, I mean, the benefit worth it, yeah.
The benefit, I absolutely agree with you.
I wouldn't. And I even I said this recently,
I think I might have said it yesterday to a friend of mine.
(16:37):
She was asking me about stuff and I said, you know what, I
wouldn't give up any of the sadness, trauma, blah, blah,
blah that happened to me becauseif it wouldn't have happened, I
wouldn't be who I am today. Even the stuff that happened in
my marriage, even the stuff thathappened with the deaths that
I've experienced in my life. Like, I mean, there was one
period of time from 2020 to 2023where three people died that
(17:04):
were family and that. And I'm like, I, I can't do this
again. I can't.
But I think all of those things made me who I am today, like
allowed me to lean in and heal. Now, I could have avoided, I
could have escaped, but I knew that wouldn't work, partly
because of the addictive work that I had done and knew that
(17:25):
that wasn't going to heal the problem.
So the timing of all of it, I think thankfully I had enough
under my belt to know kind of what the next step was.
And if I didn't, I had people inmy life that were helping me
know what the next step was because they knew me, you know?
Yeah, I think now when I am feeling grief, sadness, whatever
(17:48):
anger and leaning in, I want to lean in hard and and fast
because I want to what do I needto learn from this and get out
of it and heal from and I want to move on as quickly as
possible because if you don't, that's not going to go away.
It's going to keep gnawing at you.
You're going to have long term suffering.
Like I don't want that. I'm tired of feeling sick and
(18:10):
tired. Like I don't want to feel that
anymore. And I think I think that's where
people need to get though to experience or want to explore
and be curious about some of these modalities that are
actually working is you have to get to that point where you're
just sick and tired of feeling the way you feel or you are or
you are really sick because of holding, you know, and not
(18:33):
dealing and your. Body physically sick?
Yeah. I mean, that's what happened to
me. I got physically sick.
Nobody could figure out what waswrong with me.
Every test came back negative. And I'm like, I literally feel
like I'm dying. I literally feel like I'm dying.
What is wrong with me? Like.
Because you're holding the trauma within all of your
tissue. Yeah, I'm still trying to hold
that pressure. A little pressure cooker, yeah.
(18:56):
Yeah, very. True.
So do you feel that somatic workhas helped you deal with some of
your adoption trauma? In a.
Way that maybe other modalities haven't.
Hell yes. I don't know how to say it it to
me. It was like one of my my dear
friends and coaches that I work for says it was the buzzer
(19:17):
beater like thing for her. Like it was the last ditch
effort, right? And it was my game changer.
It changed everything for me. I was able to really be in tune
and still am now to this day where I have routines in place
(19:37):
on a daily basis, daily practices that I do, whether
it's 30 minutes of yoga in the morning, whether it's doing some
containment holds at night when I go to sleep, like self hugging
and rocking myself when I'm sleeping or before I go to
sleep. I do this consistently.
It's not like Oh no, I'm triggered so let me do no.
(19:59):
I've learned that I need to showmyself this kind of care on a
consistent basis. And it's not just because of the
trauma I've experienced. I think everybody could use this
type of help when it comes to somatics.
Like there is, there's so many different ways to go about it.
(20:19):
And I think it's it's learning. Where are you at in your trauma
state? Like what?
For us, for most of us adoptees,at least in my experience, I
really believe we're born with complex PTSD.
We come out with it. And so we're cycling through
fight, flight, pawn free squat. We're just doing that without
(20:40):
even knowing it because that's what we know how to survive.
It's like what Anne Heffron saidwhen she was interviewed on the
Making An E podcast. She talked about how she
couldn't have boundaries when she was born because if she did,
she would have died like it. Yeah.
That's absolute truth. And for us to learn how to
thrive. And it's not that we shouldn't
(21:01):
have boundaries now. We need them now, but it's it's
understanding why, like that wastraumatic and what is my go to
trauma state? Do I flop?
Do I just lay in bed and can't move?
Do I want to run? That's you know, do I want to
flee? Do I want to flight?
(21:22):
Am IA fighter. When something comes, I will go
at you, you know, whenever Toronto happens, like it's
learning what is my go to in these times of my life when I'm
triggered and how do I nurture it in those moments?
And it's not like a person who'sflopped on their bed, you can
(21:42):
go, go for a run that's gonna really help you.
Not in the flop state, it won't.Like you have to start.
This is what I talked about. I've talked about this many
times, but you have to start small.
You have to, you have to titrateup, right?
You have to go, OK, well, let's start small.
Why don't you visualize movementwhile you're in bed?
Think about what it would be like if you were maybe going for
(22:05):
a walk. Just visualize yourself walking.
And people think I'm an absolutenut job when I say that.
But no, that's what helps you actually get out of that state.
You start small and titrate yourself up the ladder, which
you probably know about the dorsal bagel, the polybagel
ladder and the ventrilbagel. You know, all of that probably
(22:27):
because of your somatic training.
And I don't want to get into allthe technical stuff, but it
makes sense because if we're in that flop depressed state, we,
we need to figure out how to move up.
And so there's little things that we can do to get us there.
Now when we're in the sympathetic fight or flight,
that's when we run like literally go for a run because
(22:47):
that, that we're, we're in that heightened sense.
So it makes sense. So it's learning how to actually
use these tools appropriately for whatever state we're in.
Yeah, yeah. In fact, my somatic teacher has
come up with 9 trauma responses and she's writing a book about
(23:08):
those. Yeah, I can't wait.
Yeah, I can give you the list ofthem, but I would love it.
Yeah, it's pretty. That's also interesting.
I can talk about that forever. I know, so can I, sorry.
So you're fine. Very verbose when it comes to
this stuff. So looking through the lens of
the healing and growing that you've done personally, what
(23:30):
surprised you about the process?I think what surprised me was
how endeared to myself I became.I don't know how else to say it.
That sounds so weird coming out of my mouth for some reason, but
(23:50):
it's true. Like I began to really, really
love myself and show myself a level of compassion that I
didn't know how before. Partly because it wasn't
patterned for me. No, no offense to anyone, but I
don't think it was known how to do that.
And so being able to like hear that negative voice say, you
(24:11):
know, you're an imposter. What do you think you're doing?
Who do you think you are and be able to kind of like smile and
go. I've named that guy, his name's
Jim, but I've been able to say to him, Hey, hey, Jim, guess
what? I, I hear you and I understand
where this is coming from. I, I understand that you feel
like you need to protect me and,and you're really concerned that
(24:32):
I'm not going to honor such and such value.
Maybe it's, you know, authenticity or you're
protecting my authenticity, meaning if I, if I share it,
then it'll be, I'll get hurt, right?
You're trying to keep me from doing that.
But guess what, it's my turn to protect you now.
And so with that mantra, with all of those inner voices, when
(24:55):
I begin to recognize those feelings and the negative
emotions, it's really helped me to just find this level of self
love, which it sounds like such a bad answer that has allowed me
to just feel really, really safeand secure with who I am.
And I don't need another person to tell me that I'm all that or
(25:16):
that I'm a bad ass or that I'm, you know, whatever.
I know that within me, you know.Yeah, that's huge.
How do you envision your relationship with your adoption
story kind of evolving as you keep healing 'cause you know, we
were talking about I think in the last podcast.
So it's a journey and not a evera destination.
(25:38):
So how do you envision your relationship with your with
being an adoptee? How do you see that growing and
changing? Well, it has grown so much even
since coming out of the fog. I, I think there are levels of
acceptance that I'm, I need to go through each time new layers
are uncovered. And so how I envision that
(26:02):
moving forward is I don't ever want to have a vindictive
relationship with it. I see, I see people, excuse me,
with those types of, I don't know, attitudes and it's it
produces such a negativity that that is not what I want.
(26:24):
But as I begin to understand thelevel of harm that truly has
been done, what's interesting isit's not it's by a system, it's
by a system. It's not by an actual for me, it
wasn't by an actual human, if that makes sense.
I had wonderful adoptive parentswho I really believe did the
(26:46):
best they could with what they had.
And I'm not going to blame them for anything, you know, I just
won't, they didn't know any better.
And so but what I will say is this system needs a revolution.
And that is the whole reason whyI feel, and and that is what I
think I'm kind of heading towards is more of a let's start
(27:09):
upheaving an upheaval of some ofthis stuff that really is
antiquated and we need to look at this.
Yeah. So I I think that answers your
question. Yeah.
So let's get into your counseling and the somatic work
that you're doing. What are you finding and working
(27:31):
with adoptees? What are some of the common
things that you're finding them trying to to tackle in in the
somatic with somatic therapy? Yeah, I think a big one is
anger. I've noticed that a lot.
There's some some deep, deep anger that they have a hard time
(27:53):
acknowledging. And so it's helping them to
uncover that and allow that to surface in a safe space.
So that's one obviously trust. I mean, it, you and I were
talking about this at the beginning before we started
recording the first podcast. I just, it breaks my heart to
(28:15):
see just the fearfulness that's in a lot of the adoptees that I
talked to about even being vulnerable, about even putting
themselves in a space where theycan actually be seen, heard and
understood because they're just so afraid of being discarded or
abandoned or rejected in that space.
(28:38):
And I think the other thing is this deep seated belief that in
order to be OK, they have to belong somewhere.
(28:58):
And I know that sounds like a big statement, but it's kind of
like what I talked about before.It's not outside that's going to
provide us our belonging, but that's where we seek for it.
And so it's me trying to help them see and navigate through
that really deep need and desireand find it inside that it truly
(29:22):
is there in our inherent value. It's there.
We just have to go back and discover it.
Yeah, I know. I've seen a lot of adoptees in
the social spaces talking about how they move all the time, or
they switch jobs all the time orrelationships all the time, and
that, you know, they never feel like there's a home base, that
there's a safe place to land. And it's just, again, I think
(29:47):
the same thing. I'm just like you.
You're looking in the wrong place.
You're looking at home is wherever you are at.
That's where it is, you know, and you're absolutely.
Right. The process to to get to that
point for some people, but again, totally worth it.
Yeah, it is. You talk about identity.
(30:08):
How do you help adoptees uncovertheir identity with what you do?
Because so much of our identity is hidden or, you know, not
given to us unidentified, especially in closed adoptions.
So how do you help people with their identities?
Well, first of all, we bring it surface.
We actually address the fact that we have a divided identity
(30:30):
and we talk about it. We bring it out to the open.
We discover what that divided sense of self was and where it
came from. We look at what?
And you do that somatically or. Yes, some somatically and then
some in the brain too. Just helping them actually
understand it first. I think their body knows because
(30:54):
they're holding it there. But until we're able to make
that connection, it's them beingable to intellectually
understand, stand that divided sense of self that right all of
a sudden journey to the adopted self.
Betty Jean Lifton, she talks about it really, really well.
So I don't I'm not making up anything new.
I'm pulling in all of the resources that have informed me
(31:17):
that it really helped me and we just really delve into it.
Like what does that divided sense of self mean to you when
when you feel like you're not authentic?
Why does it come from you lost your culture because you're a
transracial adoptee? Does it come from sorry, my dog
decided he wanted to give part of the conversation.
(31:38):
This literally just came and like bumped up against me.
He's going to be in the frame. OK.
But so I think it's allowing them to actually interact with
that in a safe environment because it's really difficult
for us to actually acknowledge that we know it deep within us.
But once we're able to recognizemy authentic self encompasses
(32:02):
both of these. So I have to figure out how do I
integrate each of these pieces? And that's why we start with
self-awareness. We don't even get into the
divided identity. I believe it's in the sixth
phase. I think it's in self love
because I want them to like I talked about build, like, let's
(32:24):
titrate up the ladder and get yourself to a place where you
believe you're worthy of love. Like I talked about in that last
podcast episode, my knee jerk response to my best friend was
you don't love me. Doesn't.
Make any sense? But that's what I truly believe
so. So what advice if someone,
specifically adoptees, are thinking about exploring somatic
(32:48):
work as a tool for healing, but aren't really sure like what it
is, what do we do? And what do you know what's
going to happen to me in there when I come see you talk about
that a little bit. Yeah, that's really interesting
and hard because you don't, you don't want to turn people off,
(33:08):
right? And I know you do a lot of this
work too. And so I think what I try to say
is it is a gentle approach to get in touch with your body and
how it communicates with your mind.
Because the way that we look at things in the professional
world, the therapy world is a way to get in touch with your
(33:29):
mind, period. There's end of story, right?
And so for me, it's, it's helping them know your body is
really, it has been speaking to you all along.
And we just need to begin to become curious and listen.
So that's, that's really all I say.
(33:49):
I'm not going to get into, well,I mean, I've gotten into it
here. But I mean, I, I do believe it's
important to understand that those nerve bundles in our
bodies are important for us to understand and know what each
one of them is connected to emotionally because they are,
they literally have their own little brains.
And so we will be talking about that.
And I think that's fascinating. But I can't expect every, yeah,
(34:13):
I can't expect every adoptee to to feel that way.
So if they're leaning in, awesome.
If they're not, it's not their time yet.
And that's OK. We talked about earlier.
Yeah, we gotta meet everybody, you know where they're at.
But yeah, whenever I do my own somatic work or someone is
helping me journey, I always feel it in my solar plexus like
(34:35):
a lot of the times. Yes.
Right here, I feel like a pressure all the time.
Right there. That's where it always.
Starts good. I was gonna say do you
communicate that like because itjust when we reflect it.
I'm sorry. Now you're.
Funny when we reflect it like mom.
We've been talking for a. Little I know he's needy and I,
(34:56):
I, he's just really funny. Yeah, I think there's there's
this reflection that we need to provide especially for.
Adoptees. That they can't sometimes be or
experience themselves. And so like for me, I'm
wondering what you say. I would love to learn from you
in this because when something like that comes up for me, I'll
(35:17):
say, hey, I'm curious. I'm noticing something in my gut
area. Are you feeling something there?
Because I sure AM. And more often than not, they're
gonna be like, I don't know, I mean, it's gurgling a little.
I can't gonna be that in touch. But how would you go about that?
Like if I could interview you. Yeah, I always have.
It's just kind of like this. It's a knowing, but not in my
(35:41):
mind. I feel it in my body because
what what I do is it we're we'reCo creating, you know, we're
connected. And so I feel it in my body.
It could be it's the only way I can describe it is kind of a
tingly energy, like an energy feeling in my body and I'm like
they're about to say something or they're about to like
(36:03):
something big's about to happen for them.
I can feel it coming, you know, so that's really the only way I
can describe that. And sometimes I'll get, you
know, the kind of a mirroring ofwhat they're gonna feel or say
they they're feeling. You know, you'll feel it.
I'm kind of have a headache, youknow, and then they'll say I
feel like I have a vice grip on my temples right now, you know,
(36:27):
so it it's interesting to have that Co create, you know, have
that kind of connection during the sessions.
But I. Love that.
Yeah, it's intuitive. Yeah, yeah, it's a, it's a
intuitive in the body though. Like I said, it's not a brain
thing. It's it's more of a energy I
feel in the body. It's kind of it's, it's, I love
(36:48):
that. I love it.
It's cool. And then, you know, the more it
happens, the more you explore that and it kind of expands into
other knowings in the body for your clients.
And you know that only helps their experience well.
Yeah. And then you can test it more as
it happens more and more totally.
(37:09):
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, beautiful. So tell us about the offerings
on your website, what you're up to, your seven month course
that's going on, all the good stuff, and tell us how to find
you. Yeah.
So my seven month course is likeI talked about before, it's
called Revolution, Uncovering your birthright.
(37:31):
And we go through 7 phases and we spend a month really delving
into each of these phases which I talked about before,
Self-awareness, self acceptance,self compassion, self
responsibility, self transformation, self love, and
self belonging. And we really delve in and get
to know those parts of ourselvesthat build on each other.
(37:53):
We do it in a safe container. Is this a group like on Zoom or
is it? On Zoom, Yeah.
And we have one day of like teaching where I talk through
some things, like especially people who don't understand the
things that you and I are talking about.
I will go into detail about let's talk about these things.
(38:13):
And then they can have, they canhave a question and answer at
the end of that. And then we have what's called
live hot seat coaching, where they come in with questions.
And in that hour, I will coach them through it using usually
somatic tools to help them work through whatever it is that
they're experiencing in the moment.
And then is that? One-on-one.
(38:35):
No, that's in the group. So that's in the group.
So that's two times a week there's a teaching and then
there's a a live hot seat coaching call.
And then once a month they will have time with me where we can
delve into whatever it is that they're learning in that phase.
So whatever self-awareness is being brought up, let's talk
about it. What I'll have them bring
whatever topic they want to bring and then I work with them
(38:56):
individually and do somatic workwith them.
Or I mean, sometimes I'm still doing CBT with them initially to
get them engaged in to the placewhere they need to be to be able
to do deeper somatic work. So that's that.
And that's a 7 month long program for a reason.
Because this honestly, my hope, this is my hope is that it can
(39:21):
be kind of a one stop shop for them that they, they will be
able to really be able to work through all of this and heal.
I'm not saying that they will behealed at the end.
That's not what I'm saying. But I do really believe that
they will find some real transformative work.
Because what I have learned is that it's those small
imperceptible shifts that we make on a consistent basis that
(39:45):
turn into the breakthroughs thatwe want.
And that's what I'm really hoping they will actually gain
from that experience. And there's, like I said before,
great speakers coming in. I think you're even gonna come
in and give us some, some of your wonderful wisdom.
And so I'm, I'm just really excited about this revolution
(40:08):
that is coming. So that is also on my website.
My website is coming home to self.co, notcom.co.
That throws people off sometimes.
And you can find me on Instagramor Facebook.
And you'll have the links. I think you have the links
already. No, no.
So they can and you can anytime you want anybody that's
(40:31):
listening and just wants to knowmore set up a call with me.
I have a, a free 30 minute call that I'm totally happy to engage
and have a conversation with youtoo.
So, and that's on my, all of my stuff.
You'll find it everywhere. So.
Yeah, I don't know about you, but what I love, one of the
things I love the most about doing somatic work is, and it
(40:53):
sounds like, you know, in a seven month intensive, you're
going to learn a lot of tools tobe able to facilitate yourself.
Once you learn how to do some ofthis stuff, you can do it on
your own. I mean, I do it on my own
sometimes, like I get stuck and I, I need to be facilitated.
And so I seek that out. But for the most part, you know,
(41:15):
I'm able to get a lot done on myown and at least bring it down
to a manageable level until I can get to somebody or, or talk
to somebody and kind of dig a little bit deeper if I need,
like I said, somebody to help me.
But but that's what I love aboutthis work is once you learn it,
there's so much that you can do on your own.
(41:35):
You really can heal yourself. You really, really can't.
You really can and it's, but it is also from within.
Like I said, it's it starts withjust you being willing to
explore and be curious and startthere.
It there's no judgement. If you judge, you're going to
move forward. You're going to stay stuck so.
(41:55):
I think it's hard for people to realize that what happens when
we journey and what happens in the inner world as we're
journeying really does affect the outer world.
Even as some crazy crap comes up, you know, in your journey
that it, it, it doesn't matter. It's just your subconscious
trying to get you to, to the answers that you're seeking, you
(42:16):
know, to, to help you, to help you heal.
It's, it's just using images and, and feelings in your body
and, you know, following those and seeing what they're about,
asking some questions and, and yeah, arts work.
Very true. Yeah.
Good stuff. Thank you so much, Julie, for
coming on. I can't wait to work with you
(42:38):
further in the somatic world andjust keep doing what you're
doing. And I, I, it's your, your
program sounds great. I, like I said, I was on your
website forever and it was very inspiring to me as a fellow
somatic worker. So thank you so much for what
you're doing. Oh my gosh, you don't know how
much that like lands for me and I received that and I'm going to
(42:59):
like anchor them. Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it. What a great conversation today.
A big thank you to Julie for sharing such profound insights
into her healing journey as an adoptee and how she's using
somatic work to help others in the community.
It's not often that we get to hear about how deeply rooted
(43:20):
trauma can become and how it canbecome a source of strength, and
how embracing these parts of ourselves can truly lead to
healing and growth. For those of you listening, I
hope you found today's episode as inspiring and thought
provoking as I did. Healing is a journey often full
of unexpected twists and discoveries, and knowing that
(43:42):
there are tools like somatic work that can help access those
hidden emotions and memories makes all the difference.
And if you're just beginning your own healing path or
thinking about exploring somaticwork, get in touch with me or
Julie. All of our links are in the show
notes, so be sure to check them out if you're seeking guidance
in your journey as an adoptee. Thanks for listening today,
(44:07):
Karma crew. Don't forget to take what you
need and leave what you don't. And always remember to mind your
own karma. I'll see you next time.
This podcast is created for educational purposes by the
telling of adoption experiences.The views expressed in this
(44:28):
podcast may not be those of the host or Mind Your Own Karma.
Before she even asked me, I'm like, Oh my gosh, Laura, I feel
this in my roots. I feel it like it's vibrating.
And she was like you. What?
Hey there, it's Melissa Brunetti, and welcome to the
(00:21):
Mind Your Own Karma podcast. Welcome back to the Show Karma
crew. I'm excited to reintroduce Julie
Brumley, an inspiring adoptee and therapist and somatic worker
(00:43):
who is dedicated to helping fellow adoptees heal and find
their identity. Last week, she shared her
personal adoption journey, giving us a glimpse into how
those experiences shaped her andinfluenced her work.
Today, we'll dive deeper into our healing journey and explore
how somatic modalities has been a game changer for both her and
(01:05):
her clients. Get ready to gain insights into
overcoming trauma, fostering a sense of belonging, and
uncovering the layers of identity that many adoptees
face. Let's welcome Julie Brimley back
to the show. We are welcoming Julie back to
the show today. Hi, Julie.
(01:25):
Hey, it's good to be here. OK, so this is where I'm geeking
out over all your healing journey and what you're offering
people. I can't say enough how what we
go through can really be a superpower, and I saw you talk
about that on your website. So what do you think about
(01:51):
abandonment trauma and how we can turn that into a superpower?
Yeah, it honestly it's the exactopposite.
So we self abandoned very commonly as adoptees, don't we?
Where we push through and feel like if I just, if I just keep
going this direction, I'm gonna be OK.
But then we burn out and we are exhausted, We get sick, blah
(02:12):
blah. And normal people do this too.
I'm not just and we're normal. That sounded bad.
But everybody has this thing. I think we can do it to the
degree where we literally harm ourselves in the process
sometimes. So there's that piece and then
there's the whole chameleon idea, right?
Like I need to do whatever I need to do to fit in in order to
be OK. So I'm gonna self abandoned who
(02:33):
I authentically am in order to be accepted over here, you know,
and people pleasing and all those different things that that
we self abandoned in. So I think the opposite of that
is learning how to love ourselves.
And what does that even look like?
Well, I think it looks a lot like getting to know those inner
(02:57):
voices, getting to know those critics that are there, getting
to know how our body responds tothose critics.
I think a lot of times, and thisis what's interesting about what
we learn in the counseling fieldis it's very mind focused.
It's very, you know, like cognitive behavioral therapy,
you change the thoughts and you change everything.
(03:18):
Well, that's somewhat true, but what they've forgotten is that
missing piece. And I think what we're beginning
to discover is that only takes us so far.
And So what I have learned is not only do I want to harness
those thoughts, but I want to understand the feelings that are
attached to them. I want to understand where they
(03:39):
show up in my body. Because if I can make that
connection to where they show upin my body, which you probably
know this, that 20% of the messages that we receive go from
our brain, our mind to our body and 80% go from our body to our
brain. So why would I want to spend
that much time here when I need to spend more time in my body
(03:59):
understanding what it means whenthese things show up there?
Like, for example, let's say a triggering event happens.
I was on a coaching call, I workfor another coach, and I was on
one of her calls and she was talking about the satisfaction
cycle of attachment. Have you heard of this?
No. Oh.
My gosh. I can kind of hear the
(04:20):
correlation I meant. Yeah, I can.
I think I know where you're going with it, but yeah.
Fully triggered me. Like as she's talking, she
talked about the different pieces of it, about pushing out,
you know, and then reaching and being taken by the mother and
skin to skin. And, and then there was like
this yield part was at the end where you just surrender because
(04:43):
you are safe. And as she's saying all of this,
my whole body started shaking and she saw me on screen and she
was like, Julie, what's going on?
I just started sobbing. I just started sobbing.
I was like, this is not what I experienced.
This is not what adoptees experience.
We experienced rupture from the minute we're born.
(05:04):
And it just, it just like flooded me, you know?
But what helped me move through that trigger was being able to
be witnessed and experienced andseen and heard.
And they probably didn't understand because none of them
were adoptees, but they just held that space for me until I
(05:25):
was able to actually move through that trigger.
But it started in my body. My whole body started shaking.
And that used to happen before, before I had any body knowledge,
but I didn't know what it was. And so I just kind of like, oh,
I'm shaking, I'm tremor, there'stremors, whoops.
I don't know what's happening. Never really delved into it.
(05:46):
And then once I got into my master's program, I realized
that's a trauma response. No wonder.
Holy cow, that's crazy. So you know, that's the
validation part's huge because alot of times I'll say something
to somebody. And this happened recently to me
(06:06):
just a few days ago with someonethat I was doing somatic mindful
guided imagery with. They were guiding me and she was
asking me, you know, beforehand like what I wanted to get out of
the session that day and stuff. And so we were discussing that
and at one point we, I just started bawling and I said I
(06:28):
just needed to feel like I was picked.
And it all stems back from my adoption.
I want to feel picked. And she's like, oh, well, we all
feel that. That's kind of just like a, you
know, And she totally like, justlike, oh, everyone feels that
way. I think she was trying to make
me feel better, but it was so invalidating.
And I can't tell you on how manylevels that I get that response
(06:51):
when I bring up that it's something that is bothering me
is it stems from my adoption. And I get kind of just Pooh
poohed like, oh, well, everybodyhas that, don't you?
Don't you think everybody has that?
You know, not just you. And that is so invalidating.
And I'm not helpful. You don't.
It's not to the yeah, maybe everybody does experience it,
(07:14):
but not to the level that we did.
Or do you know? Very, very true.
Or they'll go to that place of well, you were chosen by your
your adopted parents. OK, I.
That OK, Yeah, that erases everything.
I so then I forgot. Everything off of it.
Oh, I'm so much better now, thank you for reminding.
(07:38):
Me. God, that's good right there.
Oh yeah, thanks for bringing that to mind.
Yeah. That's the reason why gratitude,
the word grateful, could be triggering for us adoptees.
Even though I love gratitude, but when people use it that way,
I'm just like, oh, I wanna like flip them off.
Yeah, I get what you, but you had a great adoptive parents.
So and then there's like this pause like so it's all good,
(08:02):
right, You know? Yes, I did.
But there's a but too, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
There's a but, yeah, totally. So how did you get introduced to
somatic work? What dreams?
So, so the way that started was,like I told you earlier, in the
previous podcast, I had gotten my master's in counseling and
(08:27):
they talked about somatic work. Like they touched not somatic
work, but they talked about somatics.
So I knew. And how?
When was this about? Oh, gosh.
I graduated in 2014, so started my life coaching practice in
2015. So it's not like it was 10 years
ago. And so they did bring up body.
(08:49):
So I mean, I knew that that was important, but there was no
like, no tools, no nothing aboutany of that.
So I started working with addictive behaviors and had
groups of, of women that I worked with.
And I remember probably 18, Yeah.
(09:10):
So probably three years into my practice, I knew something was
missing because I couldn't, I, Iknew, I just knew it.
Like deep within me, I knew something is missing.
And what I'm offering, I don't know what it is.
And once I find out what it is, I will tell you is what I told
(09:30):
all my groups. And then, and then when was
that? Was it 2022?
So another four years later. I mean, it took a while, man.
One of the women who had gone through one of my groups had
found semantic work and she was posting about it on her
Instagram. And as I was watching it, I felt
(09:54):
so much, not her fault, but I felt so much shame and
embarrassment about the fact that this is the missing piece.
Where the heck have I been? And how have I not known that
this, I mean, I beat myself up and I wasn't in a great place in
my marriage at the time. So I just felt like such an
unbelievable disappointment in so many areas.
(10:14):
And here I am still helping women and I don't have this
figured out. Like, what is wrong with me?
And so I I messaged her and we had a call and, and she would
tell you, I was like, if you could picture what Shane looked
like. I was like, you know, punch her
(10:35):
old talking to her on the phone just felt so deflated, defeated,
disappointment, all of those things like my whole body read
that vibe was everywhere. And I was in a full on shame
spiral because I wasn't in a great place in my marriage And I
I was like, I need to do everything to figure this out.
I'm the problem, I'm the broken one.
(10:56):
I'm the defective one, right? Which I knew all of these
thoughts now, but they were really, really, really loud.
And so I started doing isn't that funny?
You noticed my hand went in my heart right as I was talking
about that, which is a somatic tool, by the way.
Y'all, It's pretty great. It's one of those things that
helped me really learn how to tune to my body.
(11:18):
But so I started working with her and it was basically based
upon the chakra system. So, and for me, I was raised
very in the, in the Christian world, still very, very love
God. He and I are awesome.
Spent a lot of time with him every day, but not everybody
(11:38):
does and that's fine. So chakras, I was like, like,
what are you talking about? I can't do that.
But I think what I received and what I heard was like, you need
to be open. You need to be open to this.
And so as I started listening and then I started reading stuff
about it and realized it's literally just nerve bundles
(11:59):
connected to the vagus nerve. That's all it is.
And the vagus nerve runs from the base of our skull to the
base of our spine. And those nerve bundles where
the chakras are have their own little brains.
And I just need to get to know these pieces of me.
And so that first month I literally started listening to
every Brené Brown book that existed because I needed to
(12:21):
reduce my shame on repeat. Once I kind of had, once I was
able to kind of get out of that spiral, I started using the hand
over heart. That literally was the first
somatic tool I used. And it was whenever I started
noticing it was beating too fastor I just was feeling a sadness,
(12:42):
like a almost a stabbing pain. There was just like this grief
that was living there, which notsurprisingly, that chakra is
tied to grief and love. And so I was losing some of
that. I was losing that connection.
So no wonder it felt that way. So that's where I started was
hand over heart. And as I began to, and it was so
(13:04):
weird because I remember my family at the time going, what
are you doing? You're being weird.
To them, it was weird, but it just it was the beginning of me
first tuning into my body and then I did EMDR again because,
and this is crazy, it was right after a pretty traumatic
(13:26):
situation happened. I realized I had back slid a
little bit. I needed to kind of get back in
touch with my baby self. So I went back to my EMDR person
who had a she was adoption competent.
She's not an adoptee. And so she worked me through
some of this and I was in this program now I was in this
somatic program learning and sheasked me before she even
(13:48):
actually, she didn't even have to ask me before she even asked
me. I'm like, Oh my gosh, Laura, I
feel this in my root. I feel it like it's vibrating.
And she was like you what? It's like, I feel it there.
It's in my gut. I can tell you exactly what's
happening. And she was like, well, what are
you doing? I don't you didn't.
You couldn't do this before. So we were able to get through,
(14:10):
you know, the four months that we did before, four to six
months that we did before. And two, because that somatic
work that I had done, just thoselittle things like a little bit
of yoga here, a little bit of hand over heart, things like
coloring. I mean, that sounds kind of
weird, but to me anything creative seemed like a waste of
(14:30):
time. I didn't have time for that.
My life was too busy. Yeah, I know the adoption fog
can feel thick at times, but imagine the fog lifting,
becoming just a few passing clouds, appearing and
disappearing, finally allowing you to see through.
With somatic, mindful, guided imagery, you can navigate the
(14:51):
fog of adoption, step into a life of clear insight, and live
the way you've always dreamed. It's time to step out of the
fog. Let smgi be your lighthouse to
clarity and freedom. Free consultations and more
information available at SomaticHealing journeys.com but.
(15:11):
Once I started making time for that, it it like opened up all
of this space for me to just be and I wasn't good at just being.
I'm a doer, and so being still allowed me to open up to new
healing opportunities. That and I would hear I would
receive from God things that I couldn't have ever received
(15:32):
before. And that was all because I
slowed down, put my hand over myheart, and paid attention
curiously to what was going on in my body.
Yeah, yeah. And as adoptees, we don't pay
attention to what's going on in our bodies because it's too
painful, too scary. What's going to happen if I
(15:53):
check in? What's going to happen if I tap
in And you know, I would say it's like the lid's on the
pressure cooker barely right now.
And if I do that, that lid's going to fly off.
And what's going to happen, You know, it's.
True, like we fear that we'll cry forever.
Yeah, yeah, I mean it. You know, you can't sugar coat
(16:16):
the healing process. It, it, it can be painful and
frightening and scary and, but in the long run, it's so worth
it, you know, I mean, the benefit worth it, yeah.
The benefit, I absolutely agree with you.
I wouldn't. And I even I said this recently,
I think I might have said it yesterday to a friend of mine.
(16:37):
She was asking me about stuff and I said, you know what, I
wouldn't give up any of the sadness, trauma, blah, blah,
blah that happened to me becauseif it wouldn't have happened, I
wouldn't be who I am today. Even the stuff that happened in
my marriage, even the stuff thathappened with the deaths that
I've experienced in my life. Like, I mean, there was one
period of time from 2020 to 2023where three people died that
(17:04):
were family and that. And I'm like, I, I can't do this
again. I can't.
But I think all of those things made me who I am today, like
allowed me to lean in and heal. Now, I could have avoided, I
could have escaped, but I knew that wouldn't work, partly
because of the addictive work that I had done and knew that
(17:25):
that wasn't going to heal the problem.
So the timing of all of it, I think thankfully I had enough
under my belt to know kind of what the next step was.
And if I didn't, I had people inmy life that were helping me
know what the next step was because they knew me, you know?
Yeah, I think now when I am feeling grief, sadness, whatever
(17:48):
anger and leaning in, I want to lean in hard and and fast
because I want to what do I needto learn from this and get out
of it and heal from and I want to move on as quickly as
possible because if you don't, that's not going to go away.
It's going to keep gnawing at you.
You're going to have long term suffering.
Like I don't want that. I'm tired of feeling sick and
(18:10):
tired. Like I don't want to feel that
anymore. And I think I think that's where
people need to get though to experience or want to explore
and be curious about some of these modalities that are
actually working is you have to get to that point where you're
just sick and tired of feeling the way you feel or you are or
you are really sick because of holding, you know, and not
(18:33):
dealing and your. Body physically sick?
Yeah. I mean, that's what happened to
me. I got physically sick.
Nobody could figure out what waswrong with me.
Every test came back negative. And I'm like, I literally feel
like I'm dying. I literally feel like I'm dying.
What is wrong with me? Like.
Because you're holding the trauma within all of your
tissue. Yeah, I'm still trying to hold
that pressure. A little pressure cooker, yeah.
(18:56):
Yeah, very. True.
So do you feel that somatic workhas helped you deal with some of
your adoption trauma? In a.
Way that maybe other modalities haven't.
Hell yes. I don't know how to say it it to
me. It was like one of my my dear
friends and coaches that I work for says it was the buzzer
(19:17):
beater like thing for her. Like it was the last ditch
effort, right? And it was my game changer.
It changed everything for me. I was able to really be in tune
and still am now to this day where I have routines in place
(19:37):
on a daily basis, daily practices that I do, whether
it's 30 minutes of yoga in the morning, whether it's doing some
containment holds at night when I go to sleep, like self hugging
and rocking myself when I'm sleeping or before I go to
sleep. I do this consistently.
It's not like Oh no, I'm triggered so let me do no.
(19:59):
I've learned that I need to showmyself this kind of care on a
consistent basis. And it's not just because of the
trauma I've experienced. I think everybody could use this
type of help when it comes to somatics.
Like there is, there's so many different ways to go about it.
(20:19):
And I think it's it's learning. Where are you at in your trauma
state? Like what?
For us, for most of us adoptees,at least in my experience, I
really believe we're born with complex PTSD.
We come out with it. And so we're cycling through
fight, flight, pawn free squat. We're just doing that without
(20:40):
even knowing it because that's what we know how to survive.
It's like what Anne Heffron saidwhen she was interviewed on the
Making An E podcast. She talked about how she
couldn't have boundaries when she was born because if she did,
she would have died like it. Yeah.
That's absolute truth. And for us to learn how to
thrive. And it's not that we shouldn't
(21:01):
have boundaries now. We need them now, but it's it's
understanding why, like that wastraumatic and what is my go to
trauma state? Do I flop?
Do I just lay in bed and can't move?
Do I want to run? That's you know, do I want to
flee? Do I want to flight?
(21:22):
Am IA fighter. When something comes, I will go
at you, you know, whenever Toronto happens, like it's
learning what is my go to in these times of my life when I'm
triggered and how do I nurture it in those moments?
And it's not like a person who'sflopped on their bed, you can
(21:42):
go, go for a run that's gonna really help you.
Not in the flop state, it won't.Like you have to start.
This is what I talked about. I've talked about this many
times, but you have to start small.
You have to, you have to titrateup, right?
You have to go, OK, well, let's start small.
Why don't you visualize movementwhile you're in bed?
Think about what it would be like if you were maybe going for
(22:05):
a walk. Just visualize yourself walking.
And people think I'm an absolutenut job when I say that.
But no, that's what helps you actually get out of that state.
You start small and titrate yourself up the ladder, which
you probably know about the dorsal bagel, the polybagel
ladder and the ventrilbagel. You know, all of that probably
(22:27):
because of your somatic training.
And I don't want to get into allthe technical stuff, but it
makes sense because if we're in that flop depressed state, we,
we need to figure out how to move up.
And so there's little things that we can do to get us there.
Now when we're in the sympathetic fight or flight,
that's when we run like literally go for a run because
(22:47):
that, that we're, we're in that heightened sense.
So it makes sense. So it's learning how to actually
use these tools appropriately for whatever state we're in.
Yeah, yeah. In fact, my somatic teacher has
come up with 9 trauma responses and she's writing a book about
(23:08):
those. Yeah, I can't wait.
Yeah, I can give you the list ofthem, but I would love it.
Yeah, it's pretty. That's also interesting.
I can talk about that forever. I know, so can I, sorry.
So you're fine. Very verbose when it comes to
this stuff. So looking through the lens of
the healing and growing that you've done personally, what
(23:30):
surprised you about the process?I think what surprised me was
how endeared to myself I became.I don't know how else to say it.
That sounds so weird coming out of my mouth for some reason, but
(23:50):
it's true. Like I began to really, really
love myself and show myself a level of compassion that I
didn't know how before. Partly because it wasn't
patterned for me. No, no offense to anyone, but I
don't think it was known how to do that.
And so being able to like hear that negative voice say, you
(24:11):
know, you're an imposter. What do you think you're doing?
Who do you think you are and be able to kind of like smile and
go. I've named that guy, his name's
Jim, but I've been able to say to him, Hey, hey, Jim, guess
what? I, I hear you and I understand
where this is coming from. I, I understand that you feel
like you need to protect me and,and you're really concerned that
(24:32):
I'm not going to honor such and such value.
Maybe it's, you know, authenticity or you're
protecting my authenticity, meaning if I, if I share it,
then it'll be, I'll get hurt, right?
You're trying to keep me from doing that.
But guess what, it's my turn to protect you now.
And so with that mantra, with all of those inner voices, when
(24:55):
I begin to recognize those feelings and the negative
emotions, it's really helped me to just find this level of self
love, which it sounds like such a bad answer that has allowed me
to just feel really, really safeand secure with who I am.
And I don't need another person to tell me that I'm all that or
(25:16):
that I'm a bad ass or that I'm, you know, whatever.
I know that within me, you know.Yeah, that's huge.
How do you envision your relationship with your adoption
story kind of evolving as you keep healing 'cause you know, we
were talking about I think in the last podcast.
So it's a journey and not a evera destination.
(25:38):
So how do you envision your relationship with your with
being an adoptee? How do you see that growing and
changing? Well, it has grown so much even
since coming out of the fog. I, I think there are levels of
acceptance that I'm, I need to go through each time new layers
are uncovered. And so how I envision that
(26:02):
moving forward is I don't ever want to have a vindictive
relationship with it. I see, I see people, excuse me,
with those types of, I don't know, attitudes and it's it
produces such a negativity that that is not what I want.
(26:24):
But as I begin to understand thelevel of harm that truly has
been done, what's interesting isit's not it's by a system, it's
by a system. It's not by an actual for me, it
wasn't by an actual human, if that makes sense.
I had wonderful adoptive parentswho I really believe did the
(26:46):
best they could with what they had.
And I'm not going to blame them for anything, you know, I just
won't, they didn't know any better.
And so but what I will say is this system needs a revolution.
And that is the whole reason whyI feel, and and that is what I
think I'm kind of heading towards is more of a let's start
(27:09):
upheaving an upheaval of some ofthis stuff that really is
antiquated and we need to look at this.
Yeah. So I I think that answers your
question. Yeah.
So let's get into your counseling and the somatic work
that you're doing. What are you finding and working
(27:31):
with adoptees? What are some of the common
things that you're finding them trying to to tackle in in the
somatic with somatic therapy? Yeah, I think a big one is
anger. I've noticed that a lot.
There's some some deep, deep anger that they have a hard time
(27:53):
acknowledging. And so it's helping them to
uncover that and allow that to surface in a safe space.
So that's one obviously trust. I mean, it, you and I were
talking about this at the beginning before we started
recording the first podcast. I just, it breaks my heart to
(28:15):
see just the fearfulness that's in a lot of the adoptees that I
talked to about even being vulnerable, about even putting
themselves in a space where theycan actually be seen, heard and
understood because they're just so afraid of being discarded or
abandoned or rejected in that space.
(28:38):
And I think the other thing is this deep seated belief that in
order to be OK, they have to belong somewhere.
(28:58):
And I know that sounds like a big statement, but it's kind of
like what I talked about before.It's not outside that's going to
provide us our belonging, but that's where we seek for it.
And so it's me trying to help them see and navigate through
that really deep need and desireand find it inside that it truly
(29:22):
is there in our inherent value. It's there.
We just have to go back and discover it.
Yeah, I know. I've seen a lot of adoptees in
the social spaces talking about how they move all the time, or
they switch jobs all the time orrelationships all the time, and
that, you know, they never feel like there's a home base, that
there's a safe place to land. And it's just, again, I think
(29:47):
the same thing. I'm just like you.
You're looking in the wrong place.
You're looking at home is wherever you are at.
That's where it is, you know, and you're absolutely.
Right. The process to to get to that
point for some people, but again, totally worth it.
Yeah, it is. You talk about identity.
(30:08):
How do you help adoptees uncovertheir identity with what you do?
Because so much of our identity is hidden or, you know, not
given to us unidentified, especially in closed adoptions.
So how do you help people with their identities?
Well, first of all, we bring it surface.
We actually address the fact that we have a divided identity
(30:30):
and we talk about it. We bring it out to the open.
We discover what that divided sense of self was and where it
came from. We look at what?
And you do that somatically or. Yes, some somatically and then
some in the brain too. Just helping them actually
understand it first. I think their body knows because
(30:54):
they're holding it there. But until we're able to make
that connection, it's them beingable to intellectually
understand, stand that divided sense of self that right all of
a sudden journey to the adopted self.
Betty Jean Lifton, she talks about it really, really well.
So I don't I'm not making up anything new.
I'm pulling in all of the resources that have informed me
(31:17):
that it really helped me and we just really delve into it.
Like what does that divided sense of self mean to you when
when you feel like you're not authentic?
Why does it come from you lost your culture because you're a
transracial adoptee? Does it come from sorry, my dog
decided he wanted to give part of the conversation.
(31:38):
This literally just came and like bumped up against me.
He's going to be in the frame. OK.
But so I think it's allowing them to actually interact with
that in a safe environment because it's really difficult
for us to actually acknowledge that we know it deep within us.
But once we're able to recognizemy authentic self encompasses
(32:02):
both of these. So I have to figure out how do I
integrate each of these pieces? And that's why we start with
self-awareness. We don't even get into the
divided identity. I believe it's in the sixth
phase. I think it's in self love
because I want them to like I talked about build, like, let's
(32:24):
titrate up the ladder and get yourself to a place where you
believe you're worthy of love. Like I talked about in that last
podcast episode, my knee jerk response to my best friend was
you don't love me. Doesn't.
Make any sense? But that's what I truly believe
so. So what advice if someone,
specifically adoptees, are thinking about exploring somatic
(32:48):
work as a tool for healing, but aren't really sure like what it
is, what do we do? And what do you know what's
going to happen to me in there when I come see you talk about
that a little bit. Yeah, that's really interesting
and hard because you don't, you don't want to turn people off,
(33:08):
right? And I know you do a lot of this
work too. And so I think what I try to say
is it is a gentle approach to get in touch with your body and
how it communicates with your mind.
Because the way that we look at things in the professional
world, the therapy world is a way to get in touch with your
(33:29):
mind, period. There's end of story, right?
And so for me, it's, it's helping them know your body is
really, it has been speaking to you all along.
And we just need to begin to become curious and listen.
So that's, that's really all I say.
(33:49):
I'm not going to get into, well,I mean, I've gotten into it
here. But I mean, I, I do believe it's
important to understand that those nerve bundles in our
bodies are important for us to understand and know what each
one of them is connected to emotionally because they are,
they literally have their own little brains.
And so we will be talking about that.
And I think that's fascinating. But I can't expect every, yeah,
(34:13):
I can't expect every adoptee to to feel that way.
So if they're leaning in, awesome.
If they're not, it's not their time yet.
And that's OK. We talked about earlier.
Yeah, we gotta meet everybody, you know where they're at.
But yeah, whenever I do my own somatic work or someone is
helping me journey, I always feel it in my solar plexus like
(34:35):
a lot of the times. Yes.
Right here, I feel like a pressure all the time.
Right there. That's where it always.
Starts good. I was gonna say do you
communicate that like because itjust when we reflect it.
I'm sorry. Now you're.
Funny when we reflect it like mom.
We've been talking for a. Little I know he's needy and I,
(34:56):
I, he's just really funny. Yeah, I think there's there's
this reflection that we need to provide especially for.
Adoptees. That they can't sometimes be or
experience themselves. And so like for me, I'm
wondering what you say. I would love to learn from you
in this because when something like that comes up for me, I'll
(35:17):
say, hey, I'm curious. I'm noticing something in my gut
area. Are you feeling something there?
Because I sure AM. And more often than not, they're
gonna be like, I don't know, I mean, it's gurgling a little.
I can't gonna be that in touch. But how would you go about that?
Like if I could interview you. Yeah, I always have.
It's just kind of like this. It's a knowing, but not in my
(35:41):
mind. I feel it in my body because
what what I do is it we're we'reCo creating, you know, we're
connected. And so I feel it in my body.
It could be it's the only way I can describe it is kind of a
tingly energy, like an energy feeling in my body and I'm like
they're about to say something or they're about to like
(36:03):
something big's about to happen for them.
I can feel it coming, you know, so that's really the only way I
can describe that. And sometimes I'll get, you
know, the kind of a mirroring ofwhat they're gonna feel or say
they they're feeling. You know, you'll feel it.
I'm kind of have a headache, youknow, and then they'll say I
feel like I have a vice grip on my temples right now, you know,
(36:27):
so it it's interesting to have that Co create, you know, have
that kind of connection during the sessions.
But I. Love that.
Yeah, it's intuitive. Yeah, yeah, it's a, it's a
intuitive in the body though. Like I said, it's not a brain
thing. It's it's more of a energy I
feel in the body. It's kind of it's, it's, I love
(36:48):
that. I love it.
It's cool. And then, you know, the more it
happens, the more you explore that and it kind of expands into
other knowings in the body for your clients.
And you know that only helps their experience well.
Yeah. And then you can test it more as
it happens more and more totally.
(37:09):
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, beautiful. So tell us about the offerings
on your website, what you're up to, your seven month course
that's going on, all the good stuff, and tell us how to find
you. Yeah.
So my seven month course is likeI talked about before, it's
called Revolution, Uncovering your birthright.
(37:31):
And we go through 7 phases and we spend a month really delving
into each of these phases which I talked about before,
Self-awareness, self acceptance,self compassion, self
responsibility, self transformation, self love, and
self belonging. And we really delve in and get
to know those parts of ourselvesthat build on each other.
(37:53):
We do it in a safe container. Is this a group like on Zoom or
is it? On Zoom, Yeah.
And we have one day of like teaching where I talk through
some things, like especially people who don't understand the
things that you and I are talking about.
I will go into detail about let's talk about these things.
(38:13):
And then they can have, they canhave a question and answer at
the end of that. And then we have what's called
live hot seat coaching, where they come in with questions.
And in that hour, I will coach them through it using usually
somatic tools to help them work through whatever it is that
they're experiencing in the moment.
And then is that? One-on-one.
(38:35):
No, that's in the group. So that's in the group.
So that's two times a week there's a teaching and then
there's a a live hot seat coaching call.
And then once a month they will have time with me where we can
delve into whatever it is that they're learning in that phase.
So whatever self-awareness is being brought up, let's talk
about it. What I'll have them bring
whatever topic they want to bring and then I work with them
(38:56):
individually and do somatic workwith them.
Or I mean, sometimes I'm still doing CBT with them initially to
get them engaged in to the placewhere they need to be to be able
to do deeper somatic work. So that's that.
And that's a 7 month long program for a reason.
Because this honestly, my hope, this is my hope is that it can
(39:21):
be kind of a one stop shop for them that they, they will be
able to really be able to work through all of this and heal.
I'm not saying that they will behealed at the end.
That's not what I'm saying. But I do really believe that
they will find some real transformative work.
Because what I have learned is that it's those small
imperceptible shifts that we make on a consistent basis that
(39:45):
turn into the breakthroughs thatwe want.
And that's what I'm really hoping they will actually gain
from that experience. And there's, like I said before,
great speakers coming in. I think you're even gonna come
in and give us some, some of your wonderful wisdom.
And so I'm, I'm just really excited about this revolution
(40:08):
that is coming. So that is also on my website.
My website is coming home to self.co, notcom.co.
That throws people off sometimes.
And you can find me on Instagramor Facebook.
And you'll have the links. I think you have the links
already. No, no.
So they can and you can anytime you want anybody that's
(40:31):
listening and just wants to knowmore set up a call with me.
I have a, a free 30 minute call that I'm totally happy to engage
and have a conversation with youtoo.
So, and that's on my, all of my stuff.
You'll find it everywhere. So.
Yeah, I don't know about you, but what I love, one of the
things I love the most about doing somatic work is, and it
(40:53):
sounds like, you know, in a seven month intensive, you're
going to learn a lot of tools tobe able to facilitate yourself.
Once you learn how to do some ofthis stuff, you can do it on
your own. I mean, I do it on my own
sometimes, like I get stuck and I, I need to be facilitated.
And so I seek that out. But for the most part, you know,
(41:15):
I'm able to get a lot done on myown and at least bring it down
to a manageable level until I can get to somebody or, or talk
to somebody and kind of dig a little bit deeper if I need,
like I said, somebody to help me.
But but that's what I love aboutthis work is once you learn it,
there's so much that you can do on your own.
(41:35):
You really can heal yourself. You really, really can't.
You really can and it's, but it is also from within.
Like I said, it's it starts withjust you being willing to
explore and be curious and startthere.
It there's no judgement. If you judge, you're going to
move forward. You're going to stay stuck so.
(41:55):
I think it's hard for people to realize that what happens when
we journey and what happens in the inner world as we're
journeying really does affect the outer world.
Even as some crazy crap comes up, you know, in your journey
that it, it, it doesn't matter. It's just your subconscious
trying to get you to, to the answers that you're seeking, you
(42:16):
know, to, to help you, to help you heal.
It's, it's just using images and, and feelings in your body
and, you know, following those and seeing what they're about,
asking some questions and, and yeah, arts work.
Very true. Yeah.
Good stuff. Thank you so much, Julie, for
coming on. I can't wait to work with you
(42:38):
further in the somatic world andjust keep doing what you're
doing. And I, I, it's your, your
program sounds great. I, like I said, I was on your
website forever and it was very inspiring to me as a fellow
somatic worker. So thank you so much for what
you're doing. Oh my gosh, you don't know how
much that like lands for me and I received that and I'm going to
(42:59):
like anchor them. Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it. What a great conversation today.
A big thank you to Julie for sharing such profound insights
into her healing journey as an adoptee and how she's using
somatic work to help others in the community.
It's not often that we get to hear about how deeply rooted
(43:20):
trauma can become and how it canbecome a source of strength, and
how embracing these parts of ourselves can truly lead to
healing and growth. For those of you listening, I
hope you found today's episode as inspiring and thought
provoking as I did. Healing is a journey often full
of unexpected twists and discoveries, and knowing that
(43:42):
there are tools like somatic work that can help access those
hidden emotions and memories makes all the difference.
And if you're just beginning your own healing path or
thinking about exploring somaticwork, get in touch with me or
Julie. All of our links are in the show
notes, so be sure to check them out if you're seeking guidance
in your journey as an adoptee. Thanks for listening today,
(44:07):
Karma crew. Don't forget to take what you
need and leave what you don't. And always remember to mind your
own karma. I'll see you next time.
This podcast is created for educational purposes by the
telling of adoption experiences.The views expressed in this
(44:28):
podcast may not be those of the host or Mind Your Own Karma.
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