September 1, 2025 • 39 mins
In this final episode of our Let Them Theory series, we dig into the last three chapters of Mel Robbins’ book—and we don’t hold back.
We talk about why the honeymoon phase blinds us to red flags, how to tell if someone is truly compatible (hint: if you’re confused, they’re not), and why waiting for a partner to change is wasted time. We also break down the “commitment conversation” that keeps us on equal footing instead of begging for validation, plus the hard truths about breakups—no shortcuts, just growth.
From recognizing unhealthy relationship patterns to using a breakup as fuel for self-improvement, this conversation is packed with practical tools for dating, commitment, and letting go.
🔑 What you’ll learn in this episode:
- Why “but” and “maybe” are red flags in relationships
- How to ask for commitment without losing your power
- Why most people won’t change—and what that means for you
- How to handle breakups without making them worse
- Why your motivation (even revenge) can still lead to positive change
🎧 Whether you’re dating, rebuilding after heartbreak, or just working on yourself, this is the episode that ties it all together.
Catch all of our audio and video episodes at mindfullymasculine.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dan (00:00):
The version of that person that they are now.
That's like the best, that's,that's where the best, that's as
good as it can get Right.
So over time it can only getworse, Are you?
Are you totally happy andthrilled now?
But if there's any like cracksin that, like pay, attention,
pay attention.
Charles (00:15):
You're thinking, you know, boy, he or she is great,
but I, I just wish they were,you know, more committed to
their health, more committed totheir career development, that
they were a little bit more, youknow, easygoing and good
humored when I make a joke.
I wish they were a little bit.
Maybe down the road they'll geta little bit more of the thing
I want.
No, they will either stay thesame or get what you perceive to
(00:37):
be worse.
Dan (00:37):
If you start using that as soon as the words, but or maybe
as you're starting to describeyour relationship with another
person, that's probably a goodindication that you need to
reevaluate.
Charles (00:46):
Welcome to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast.
This is Charles.
Today, we are closing out ourseries on the Let them Theory by
Mel Robbins with the finalthree chapters.
These chapters focus onrelationships, romantic ones in
particular.
We'll talk about how to letpeople show you who they are,
how to have the commitmentconversation without losing your
footing, and how to handlebreakups in a way that leads to
(01:06):
growth instead of more pain.
It's a powerful way to wrap upthis book, and we'll be pulling
out the lessons that matter mostfor men who want to build
healthier, more intentionalconnections.
If you'd like to catch all ofour audio and video episodes,
check us out atmindfullymasculinecom.
Thanks for listening and enjoythe episode.
Good morning, charles.
Dan (01:26):
Hello again, Dan.
How are you?
I'm well.
How's our equipment doing?
Charles (01:30):
It's fine when I don't kick the power plug in.
All right, so we're coveringthe last three chapters of the
Let them Theory 18, 19, and 20.
And this focuses onrelationships and how to
navigate those particularlyromantic relationships.
So we're going to get intochapter 18 let them show you who
(01:51):
they are.
Chapter 19, how to take yourrelationship to the next level,
and chapter 20, how every endingis a beautiful beginning, which
I find that title somewhatcliche and annoying.
Dan (02:01):
But for the last chapter of the book.
Charles (02:03):
I feel like I've got to move some books yeah, some way
and cute.
So let's start with chapter 18.
Let them show you who they are.
This one, she, she builds onsome stuff from the last couple
of chapters, which is don't tryto fix people, don't try to
change people, certainly don'ttry to get into a romantic
partnership with someone basedon the assumption of you know
they just need a little bit oftweak and I can adjust them to
(02:24):
be the partner I need them to be.
Dan (02:26):
Yeah, I liked one of her quotes, which was a purpose of
dating isn't to find the one,it's to find yourself.
Charles (02:32):
Yeah, I like that too.
And, um, really understandingwhat it is that you need and how
you love, and, yeah, that thatis the that should be the goal,
and seeing how you know who youwant to be and who you really
are is reflected in yourrelationship with another person
.
Dan (02:49):
Yeah, I feel like I ended up in that state where I figured
out over way too much timetrying to find the one I ended
up finding myself.
But if I had gone in with thatmindset of I'm trying to figure
out what I want, it would havemade things a lot easier and I
would have put a lot lesspressure on myself to stick out
relationships longer than Ishould have or not expressed my
(03:13):
needs, wants and boundariesRight A lot of stuff that Glover
talks about and he helped mefinally get to that point where
I realized, hey, I need tofigure out what I want in order
for me to even stand a chance offinding out somebody who's
going to be compatible with me.
Charles (03:27):
Yeah, there's a quote by, I think it was Mark Manson
that said the only universal,effective dating advice is
self-improvement.
And so you know, I've.
I've got a, a friend who's in arelationship that she's not
satisfied with and is she knowsshe's kind of spinning her heels
in this relationship and tryingto figure out, you know, how to
(03:47):
get out of it and how to feellike she can get out of it.
And my advice to her for a longtime, and whenever she asks for
advice, I'll always give her thesame advice, which is get
healthier and healthier to thepoint where the negative aspects
of this relationship are nolonger attractive to you, or
this person's no longerattractive to you.
And the only way you can changethat is by getting healthier
(04:07):
and healthier and and replacingbad, unhealthy patterns with
good, healthy patterns, to thepoint where you're like, okay,
this, this guy, he doesn't fitinto who I am now, yeah, and
then you'll naturally transitionout of the relationship, but
trying to dig your heels in andsay, okay, now I'm ready for a
breakup this time.
And if you're not ready, ifyour nervous system still wants
(04:28):
all the unhealthy things thatyou know you and your partner
are creating this relationship,then the breakup's not going to
hold, or you'll replace it withsomebody else with the same
problems.
Dan (04:38):
I think one of the challenges a lot of us run into
is that the negativeconsequences of that
relationship don't feel worse orworse than taking on the
uncomfortable challenges toimprove yourself.
Right, I think you're stillgetting enough of those little
bits of dopamine, those thatgood times with them, even
(04:58):
though it's not what you want inthe end.
It's a lot easier to swallowthat than it is to really like.
Look at yourself and want tomake difficult changes or
potentially what we think aredifficult changes, and I think
we need to kind of reframe thatand go hey, it doesn't need to
be difficult.
It could just be you going inand doing a hobby somewhere or
meeting a bunch of people doingthe same thing that you're
(05:19):
interested in, instead of goingout with this dude on a Friday
night, instead of going out withthis dude, you know, on a
Friday night, right, but there'sa chance that you might have a
good time with him and you'reremembering all those things in
the past that happened where youhad that one amazing night.
You're hoping that might happenagain, but meanwhile you just
you kind of like you mentionedin the last time we were talking
about you're kind of wastingyour time with somebody who's
(05:42):
not the right fit, and there'san opportunity cost, because now
you're not out there able tomeet the person who's a better
fit yeah, one thing to also keepin mind is that sometimes, you
know, it's very hard for us,when we're in the middle of a
relationship, to do the goodtimes versus bad times math,
like okay, well, for last youknow month, the bad times have
(06:02):
outweighed the good times.
Charles (06:03):
therefore, therefore, I will just end the relationship.
It's like, wish it was thateasy.
Yeah, it's not, because theother things about the
relationship that your nervoussystem may have grown to crave
whether that's the familiarity,the chaos, the ups and downs,
the emotional highs and lows,those kind of override the
simple math of good times versusbad times.
And sometimes this wholechapter is all about patterns,
(06:26):
where it's like you get intothese patterns and you should be
able to recognize the patternsand trust the patterns, because
the only way to really have agood idea of what the future
will hold is to look at thepatterns of the past right and,
as you mentioned before on theconversation, that we didn't
record which is really, whichwas which was.
Dan (06:43):
It's like a drug, it's a pattern.
It's not just a behaviorpattern.
There's a physical pattern thatwe engage in and that becomes
tied to our bodies and ournervous system so that we really
are addicted to operating inthis way, or very used to
operating in this way.
So that adds a whole notherlayer of challenge when it comes
(07:05):
time to trying to break thosepatterns.
It's not just a oh yeah I, youknow, I did a pros and cons list
and it's easy for me to go Allright, yeah, no, no problem,
we're going to start changingsomething.
Yeah, it's just.
It's a lot more than just yourbrain going I should be doing
this.
It's wow, yeah, you have tolike literally change the way
you feel, and that's sometimesextremely difficult when, when
(07:26):
you've had such highs as youmentioned too is in that
honeymoon period a lot of times,we're establishing really
amazing new experiences.
You've got your best footforward, even going to the same
restaurant you've been to amillion times.
You're going to that new rest,that rest, that same restaurant,
with somebody who's new Right.
Million times.
You're going to that new rest,that rest, that same restaurant
(07:46):
with somebody's new that's goingto build additional.
You know physical, likeneuropathways and feelings of
good feelings and our brain,when we feel good, we want to
repeat that.
We get cravings to repeat thatsame thing.
Charles (07:55):
Let's do that again, over and over and over again,
and even if it's not happening,we're thinking, oh, there might
be a chance we can get backthere, yes, right, yes, and us,
you know, depending on what elseis going on in the mix of brain
chemistry that makes you you,when you have challenges with
things like adhd, insecureattachment, I mean all these
things kind of factor into andhow you.
(08:18):
You use that honeymoon periodto build a benchmark of what
relationships should be, and alot of us, myself included, have
difficulty making the move fromthat honeymoon period to just
the day in, day out of.
This is what I'm like, this iswhat this other person is like,
and are the non-hormone-fueled,manic versions of us people that
(08:41):
can enjoy a healthyrelationship together.
Dan (08:44):
Yeah, and I know a lot of times we'll make excuses as to
why they're behaving this waynow and not the way they were in
the honeymoon period, like,well, this person just got a new
, this other person they justgot a new job, so they're a
little bit more stressed, orthey just had this huge thing
happen in their life, and so youknow they're not sleeping as
well, so they're a littlecrankier.
(09:05):
And before we know it, it's.
This is just the way theyoperate, and and there's always
going to be something that comesup in life that's going to be
stressful.
How do they handle that stressRight?
And?
And so there's always going tobe something.
Charles (09:16):
That's why it's a good idea not to, you know, make any
big decisions and bigcommitments during that
honeymoon phase, because youknow people are at the beginning
of the relationship, people aregoing to be as engaged,
exciting, attractive as they'reever going to be.
I mean attractive simply as afunction of time, right?
I mean, the clock's not runningbackwards for some of us and
(09:38):
forwards for others, it'srunning forwards for all of us.
And so you know if, and that'swhy even the most valuable time
to be on the lookout for thosered flags is in the time where
you're least likely to be on thelookout for the red flags
during that honeymoon phase.
Because you know if, if thereare, if there are patterns and
behaviors that you're seeingduring the honeymoon phase that
you're like I'm a littleuncomfortable, maybe he or she
(10:01):
will get that together, you know, so that we can be together
forever.
It's like no, this, this is.
It's like when, when the salesguy won't return your call in
the pre sales cycle yeah,they're.
They're certainly not going toget better at returning your
call after you've, after youbought the product.
Dan (10:17):
Right yeah.
Charles (10:18):
They're going to get worse.
Dan (10:19):
Absolutely.
I mean, um, so quick, quickexample here I brought my car to
a new repair place this lastweek and just for like an oil
change and like the middleconsole button wasn't working
and I was like, hey, can youjust take a look at that?
I didn't know anything aboutthis mechanic.
It got good ratings on Googlethey that actually engages the
button on the middle console aswell as the trunk.
(10:40):
I was rummaging around in theglove box before that and
realized after the fact that Ihad engaged this valet switch
and it basically stopped it fromopening.
As soon as I clicked the valetswitch, boom, it opened, no
problem.
(11:00):
So either I left the review, Iwas just like either they don't
know, right, they don't know thecraft, or they were trying to
take advantage of me.
But the point is I'm nevergoing to go back there again,
right?
So that's the thing.
It's like I've had those firstdates where they've done the
basically the same thing, wherethey've made like they made a
crappy comment about a fatperson one time and I was just
(11:21):
like, oh you know, they werejust kind of joking around, but
at the time I was just like.
I was like I was a littleuncomfortable.
I'm like I can't tell ifthey're fully joking or they're
actually like serious.
You know it was just like, oh,look at that fat.
And I was just like, oh, my God, like at the time.
But then everything else waswas, you know, really good, and
I kind of let that go.
I was attracted and everything.
Looking back, I could havesaved myself like two, three
(11:48):
years of a relationship if I hadlistened and objectively
evaluated the situation ofreality at that time and all the
hormones and everything else.
You know I wasn't paying, youknow didn't could see through
all of that.
Charles (11:56):
That's interesting.
That brings in another quotefrom the chapter that I think we
can use in a couple ways theidea of if they're into you,
you'll know, and if they're not,you'll be confused.
I would also say if they intoyou, you'll know, and if they're
not, you'll be confused.
I would also say if they'recompatible, you'll know, and if
they're not compatible, you'llbe having a lot of conversations
with yourself why they might becompatible.
Dan (12:14):
That's a great way to extrapolate that.
A hundred percent, absolutely.
That's even more important torealize as you're going on dates
is, yeah, if you need to workto figure out whether they're
compatible or not In your ownhead, in your own head, they're
having conversations withyourself or with a friend or
anybody else, and you're askingquestions versus going in like,
oh my God, I can't believe howcompatible we are.
(12:35):
Right, I mean, that's still noguarantee at that point, right?
Charles (12:38):
Right.
Dan (12:39):
That's.
That's a great way of lookingat it.
Charles (12:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Especially look for the waythat people talk about and treat
other people Like.
If they're making cracks aboutsomebody being overweight, if
they're being rude to servers,if they're showing you those
things, then if it's somethingyou don't know because you don't
care and it's not a problem foryou and you're the same way,
then you can both be pieces ofshit together.
(13:01):
Yeah.
But if you're a person whereit's like, oh my gosh, I can't
believe she talked that way tothe valet that we were giving
the car keys to.
She's not only talking that wayto that one valet.
Dan (13:12):
Correct.
And another way to look at itis if you were on a date with
this person and you overheardthe couple next to you, one of
those people, say something likethat, how would you feel about
that?
Charles (13:21):
Right, I want to be the girl I'm sitting across.
I want to be.
I wanted to be someone that Icould share a glance with and be
like god.
You can get a load of thosepeople.
And she's like can you?
I can't believe what I justheard.
You don't want to be sittingacross from the person that's
saying those things.
So the couple next to you isbonding over how terrible she is
right, yeah, exactly.
Dan (13:40):
and looking back, it's just like, oh my god, you blind
mother, like I can't believe youjust didn't you just swept that
under the rug, exactly.
Oh my God, yeah, because shewas pretty or exciting, or I
hadn't had a date in God knowshow long at that point.
Right, right, yeah.
So I'm letting it all go, right.
Charles (13:58):
Yeah.
So I felt that this chapter 18was mostly targeted and tell me
if you disagree mostly targetedto women who are in
relationships that they're notfeeling satisfied with, and
which is okay, you know, mel,mel gets to pick whatever
audience for whatever section ofthe book she feels like it, but
I did feel it.
May be, you know, that's, maybeguys have had the same
(14:19):
experience and other guys wouldread this book and feel like, oh
, I feel like she's talking tome.
I didn't feel like that because, yeah, typically I think in our
society, you know, men canoften be the kind of gatekeepers
on commitment, and so most ofthe time that somebody is
complaining that somebody is notas committed as they would like
(14:40):
or not as invested, it'susually at least in heterosexual
relationships it's usually thewoman complaining about the man.
I think that's a function ofboth biology and culture, and so
I did feel like the main thrustor the main benefit of this
chapter would be like hey,ladies, if you're in this
relationship and he's not givingyou what you want or what you
(15:02):
need in the way of commitment orinvestment or whatever, here
are some of the things you cando about that that are within
your control, like here's howyou can recognize what's not in
your control from what is inyour control.
And once you recognize what isin your control, here's how you
can act in a way to find out ifthis is going to work or not.
100%, and a big part of that wasthe Matthew Hussey conversation
(15:24):
about when you want acommitment at a level that you
don't currently have.
Here's how you sit your partnerdown and ask for it.
Yeah, and I like the idea ofkeeping it you focused of you
know.
Here's how I feel.
Here's what I want.
Here are the things I value.
Now the ball's in your court.
Are you on board with this ordo I need to keep looking?
Essentially not in an ultimatumway, but just as a these?
(15:47):
These are the values that Ibased my dating life around, and
I need somebody that is on thesame page with those values and
your.
Dan (15:56):
The actions you take in committing to me, are going to
determine whether you've got aplace in my dating life or not
yeah, and and she mentions thisI think the real most, the most
important part is going intothis conversation with the
proper intention.
It's not to get what you want.
It's not to expressdisappointment in the fact that
you're not getting what you want.
(16:16):
It's to seek clarification.
Charles (16:17):
It can't be the number one.
Attaining them is not thenumber one goal of this
conversation.
Attaining clarity is the numberone goal of the conversation.
Dan (16:24):
I feel like, if we do, you know, if you're trying to attain
them you'll say what you havesubconsciously Right.
You're going to try to make themfeel guilty.
You might get more upset thanthan than you need to be, and
that might indirectly make themfeel guilty, and then they could
be giving you an inaccurateresponse because they don't want
you to feel bad.
Part of that was, hey, I reallyenjoyed what we've had, you
(16:50):
know.
But at this point I know myself, I want a commitment and I only
want to invest my time andenergy in somebody who's looking
for the same thing, and if youdon't, that's totally fine.
But I just want to let you knowthat's that's where I'm at.
Charles (16:59):
I'm at my decision point.
Dan (17:00):
Right and you're just really looking for information.
I mean, think about it.
You're, you know, you're goingon Google, you're asking chat,
gpt.
I just need some clarificationhere.
Try to go in with without asyou're trying to express
emotions, because then you don't, you don't want to.
You want to find out reality isfrom that other person and you
want to make it as easy aspossible for the other person to
(17:20):
feel like they can give youthat truth without feeling like
there's going to be consequencesif they don't give you what you
want.
Charles (17:28):
Yeah, here's the thing I took away from that
conversation there's alwaysgoing to be a dynamic
interrelationship of power, ofattraction, of status.
I mean your relationshipshouldn't be all about those
things, but they are going to bepresent.
And when I go to you and say Iwant a commitment from you, I
want you know, it's very easy tokind of.
(17:49):
The result of that could beputting one person on a pedestal
and bringing yourself down hereLike I'm down here begging you
to be with me and commit to me.
Will you please do it?
Dan (17:57):
That's one way.
Charles (17:59):
Where I mean, I think that's the default.
Whenever one person initiatesthe, let's start saying I want a
commitment conversation.
It is kind of I'm down here,you're up here, I'm asking you
to give me something that I need, following the model that she
describes in this chapter thatMatthew Hussey's girlfriend came
to him with.
It takes that and puts you bothon the exact same level, which
(18:21):
is why it's so valuable and soeffective.
Dan (18:23):
Right and, as you said, yeah, because you're saying
you're using I.
So it's like I value my timeand energy and at this point, if
I'm going to continue to investin it, in this relationship, I
want to do that with somebodywho's on the same page, and I
think that is really kind ofwhat brings you up to that same
level, because you're not sayingI'm incomplete without you, I
need this.
It's it's not a need anymore,it's a, it's a want.
(18:47):
At this point, right, and itmight be a need in terms of this
is you're now saying you knowthis.
It's a need in that, if I'mgoing to continue to give my
time and energy.
Charles (18:57):
This is what it's value , if that works for me, and
whether or not you participatein that life is going to be you
to answer.
You know how how we resolvethis conversation, and and again
because you know some of itcould be how how we resolve this
conversation, and and againbecause you know some of it
could be if, if you go into thisconversation the way many of us
often do, where you're downhere and they're up here on this
pedestal and you're asking themto give you something that you
need from them, the very natureof that conversation makes the
(19:20):
other person think, oh, ifthey're, if they're coming to me
asking like this, maybe, maybeI'm too special to say yes to a
commitment with them.
Dan (19:27):
Could be yeah.
Charles (19:28):
And so, yeah, I I think it's one of the most essential
takeaways from this book is isframing that commitment
conversation in a way whereyou're going into it as an equal
party, saying enjoy you, Iappreciate you, but what I
require is this kind of clarityin my relationships, and now
it's your turn to say where youthink you fit into that.
Dan (19:50):
Yeah, I think that kind of rolls up into a lot of what I'm
taking out of this book, whichis the let me part is the part
where you learn to valueyourself right.
So it's the let them, so youcan actually let go of that
emotional attachment to thesituation.
The let me, then, is I'm takingpower, I'm taking control, I'm
(20:10):
making a decision, and by doingthat, you are saying that you
are valuable enough to makethose decisions.
You're valuable enough, yeah.
Charles (20:19):
Yeah.
Dan (20:19):
Basically make those decisions.
Charles (20:21):
Yeah, you have to.
Yeah, a life that works for youhas to be the priority over and
above any one other person, youknow, and so if you find
yourself in a situation where,hey, this isn't working for me,
then you know you owe it toyourself to get yourself out of
that situation.
Yeah, because you know, ifyou're like most of us, if
you're practicing monogamy andyou want to have one partner
(20:43):
that you're dedicated to and isdedicated to you, every day you
spend with the wrong partner isa day that you're not spending
with the right partner and not,not.
There's a you know a one personout there that, but yeah, any.
Any time you're spending withsomebody that doesn't match your
values is a time right.
You're robbing yourself ofsomeone who does and as, as you
(21:04):
said, is you.
Dan (21:05):
You know, by expressing what your needs are, you're not
just doing yourself a favor,you're doing the other person a
favor too.
Right, because if you then gointo this relationship because
you guilted that person intogoing, oh well, you know,
because you came upset andyou're like I need you to commit
to me.
And then I'm and I've been onthe other end of that and I'm
like, okay, yeah, let's do thisbecause there's a little bit of
(21:28):
good there and I don't want herto be upset.
But the bottom line is I knewthat person was wrong for me and
I shouldn't have done that.
But if you go into theconversation and you say, or you
continue in the relationshipwhere you aren't a hundred
percent getting you in returnwhat you are investing in,
you're going to get resentful.
Then you're not going to bringyour best self and you're going
to sabotage your ownrelationship that the one that
you thought you wanted, becauseyou were too scared to actually
(21:51):
have that conversation at thebeginning and go this is where
my standards are and I needsomeone to match that.
So don't go in there and tryingto manipulate someone into
getting what you want, causeyou're not going to be happy in
the end.
Charles (22:03):
Anyway're doing yourself a disservice.
You get, you get a yeah if you,if you guilt or manipulate
somebody into a commitment theydon't want to make, then you're
getting the version of them thatyou don't want to have or
you've got this underlying weirdarrogance that you think you
can change them right, like, oh,they're not exactly what I want
, but we'll figure it out, I'll.
Dan (22:21):
I'll figure out how to change them, like in a weird way
.
That's awfully arrogant, don'tyou think?
Charles (22:26):
yeah, it certainly is.
And uh, yeah, and that's.
That's one of the things thatinsecurely attached, codependent
people certainly struggle withis, you know, I, I need to
justify their presence in mylife, even though they're not
right for me.
So I'll, I'll believe, if Ijust, you know, bear down and
white knuckle it hard enough,I'll be able to turn them into
(22:47):
what, what they need to be forme.
Dan (22:49):
Right, yeah, yeah.
Charles (22:50):
Not never heard of it working?
Dan (22:52):
Yeah, well, I mean you, you've told me a few times you
know the you should, you shouldthe version of that person that
they are now.
That's like the best.
That's.
That's where the that's as goodas it can get Right.
So over time it can only getworse.
Are you?
Are you totally happy andthrilled now?
But if there's any like cracksin that, like pay attention pay
(23:14):
attention.
Charles (23:15):
You're thinking, you know, boy, he or she is great,
but I I just wish they were, youknow, more committed to their
health, more committed to theircareer development, that they
were a little bit more, you know, easygoing and good humored
when I make a joke.
I wish they were a little bit.
Maybe down the road they'll geta little bit more of the thing
I want.
No, they will either stay thesame or get what you perceive to
(23:36):
be worse.
Dan (23:37):
If you start using that as soon as the words, but or maybe
as you're starting to describeyour relationship with another
person, that's probably a goodindication that you need to
reevaluate Breakups.
Charles (23:47):
Best case scenario it's mostly mutual and it still
sucks and it still hurts andit's still going to be a rough
thing for you to go through.
In a worst case scenario, youget what you believe to be
blindsided by someone you wantto be with who doesn't want to
be with you anymore and, ineither case, the feelings that
you're experiencing experiencingthere are no shortcuts to make
it better.
There are only shortcuts tomake it worse.
(24:09):
Right, right yeah where the theonly thing that any any
shortcuts you try to take to getthrough the pain of the
heartbreak is usually just goingto result in it hurting worse
and longer yeah, I mean shementions what 30 days no contact
, and I know, uh, some of theother books have said what like
90 days no contact, or nocontact at all ever part of it
(24:30):
depends on what you want.
If, if you're looking to getback together with the person,
then, um, some people will say30 or 90 days of no contact and
and then you write them a letter, blah, blah, blah.
And I I think the good adviceis very clear on that If someone
breaks up with you and you wantto get back together with them,
(24:50):
you never contact them again.
I mean, after you know you havesettled out the logistics of
the breakup, you know you'vegotten your stuff, they've
gotten their stuff.
If you've done anything likereally dramatically
inappropriate that you need toapologize for, then you
apologize for it, but then thedumper never hears from you ever
(25:10):
again for the rest of your life.
If they reach out to you, youcan choose to respond to them.
Yeah, if your goal is torecover from the breakup and
possibly get back together withthem, you go into no contact as
soon as is logically feasibleand you just never reach out to
you, never initiate conversationwith them again so that sounds
like accepting reality, correct?
on reality's terms.
On reality's terms, yes, oh, Ilike.
(25:31):
And so yeah, the if, if you'rewilling to stay broken up with
them and realize that thebreakup was for the best, then
yes, it's possible down the roadyou could have a friendship
with them.
But honestly, I mean I wouldtread carefully with that,
because having a lot of ongoingfriendships with exes is going
to introduce complication toyour new relationships.
(25:53):
And so you've got to, you gotto really weigh that to say, oh,
is my friendship with this ex,you know barring?
You have a business together,you have kids together, you have
pets together, you know stufflike that.
You have to deal with thosesituations as they exist,
without any of those kind ofcomplicating factors.
A guy who's got, or a gal who'sgot, a string of ex-partners
(26:15):
and ex-lovers that they're justfriends with, that is going to
seem like a red flag to the newperson that you might be
interested in.
Dan (26:21):
Yeah, 100%.
And.
Charles (26:21):
I think that's reasonable.
I mean I would, if somebody hada lot of close friendships, or
even a close friendship withsomebody that they were
previously romantically involvedwith, even though they didn't
have a business together, kidstogether, my attitude would be
like, okay, I, you might not bethe person for me, then if
you're, if you're stilldedicated to this ongoing
friendship, no-transcript, justkind of have to, and I mean that
(27:16):
could even be something thatyou go into it with, like, hey,
I'd like to reestablish afriendship with you, but just so
you know that friendship isgoing to have to go on hiatus if
I get another romantic interest, because I don't think it would
be fair to that new partner forme to still be contacting you.
Dan (27:30):
Yeah, and it's funny because you know we hear these
stories about most of the timewe understand oh yeah, it's not
good if they're really goodfriends with a lot of their exes
.
We understand that.
But as she talks about is, wealways think we're the exception
to the rule, so this is goingto be different.
It doesn't.
That doesn't really apply to us, because they clearly can
handle their exes differently.
Or, yeah, this warning label itdoesn't apply to me and I think
(27:54):
we fall into that trap when itcomes to relationships here too.
Charles (27:57):
Yeah, I would say the sweet spot is going to be you
want somebody that is willing tospeak about their past
relationships and their formerpartners in a way that is, you
know, oh, she was crazy, she wasinsane, she was a bad person.
I mean that's, that's a hugered flag, and I've I've told
younger guys like never, never,talk negatively about your
(28:20):
former partners, because thatsays as much or more about how
bad of a person you are than itdoes about her.
Dan (28:26):
Yeah, I think it's important to recognize and try
to identify your role in thoserelationships too.
You don't need to speak atlength about you know what a
terrible person you think youare.
You know in that lastrelationship.
But I think balancing it outand realize it takes two to
tango in that relationship andtheir decisions that you made
that probably led to theproblems that you had.
So take some responsibility andownership of your you know of
(28:49):
you in that relationship.
It doesn't mean it all falls onyou either.
But at the same time, if you'resaying this person was crazy,
that person was crazy, thatperson's crazy, what's the
common denominator?
Charles (29:00):
here Exactly, and so yeah, common denominator exactly
, and so yeah, you can.
You can also assume that,however somebody is speaking
about their ex, that's going tobe exactly how they speak about
you when your relationship isover too or they could be
thinking hey, is he thinkingthat I'm crazy?
Dan (29:15):
right now, even before the relationship is over, you could
be sabotaging your existingrelationship because now you've
put those thoughts into theperson's mind, so even those
that haven't happened.
Wait a second.
This guy's dated four crazywomen in a row.
He's dating me right like I'mcrazy, exactly, or, and or they
might even question themselvesis this crazy what I'm doing now
?
Now they start questioningthemselves.
Now they're not going to bringtheir best self to the
(29:37):
relationship because they'realways feeling like they're
scrutinizing themselves evenmore so yeah, so I, I would say,
look for partners that are notstill enmeshed with their former
partners, but also not justconstantly talking crap about
their former partners either.
Charles (29:52):
Find somebody that's in the middle of those, and I
think that maximizes your yourpotential for success.
Dan (29:57):
So I don't know what your experience has been like on
dates and getting to know people.
Have you run into a lot ofpeople who want to constantly
talk about their exes and theirprevious relationships and
things like that?
I feel like, and it's likeearly on in the dates, I feel
like that can be dangerous,dangerous waters to be treading
in.
Charles (30:16):
I mean, usually that only happens when there's some
unresolved feelings about theperson or the breakup.
Yeah, yeah, if somebody is, ifsomebody is preoccupied with the
, the negatives or the traumasof their last relationship to
the point where they're bringingthem up fairly frequently with
a new partner, then thatprobably means that they've got
(30:37):
some work they have to do yeahand you know one of the things
you know when it comes to movingpast a negative or challenging
relationship, whether that's oneyou had with your parents or
with a former partner orwhatever.
It's like having a cohesivenarrative in your own head about
understanding.
You know what led to therelationship, why the
relationship was negative, whathappened, why it happened.
(30:57):
That seems to be a big part ofbeing able to move on past it.
And so if you still, if youhaven't, or your partner hasn't
figured out why the relationship, you know what the good and bad
parts of it were, why itsucceeded, why it failed, why
you felt traumatized by it.
If that's not something that aperson can express to themselves
and I would say, at least oneother person, whether that's a
(31:19):
sponsor and recovery group or atherapist or, you know, even a
best friend and confidant if youcan't express here's, here's
why I got into the relationship,here's what when, here's what
was good at the beginning,here's what went wrong, here's
why I still have unresolvedfeelings.
If that's not a story you'reready to tell, you might not be
ready to be in anotherrelationship yet.
Dan (31:37):
Yeah, that's.
That's a great litmus test forsure.
Yeah, yeah um.
So, speaking more about the uh,the breakups, some of the
practical steps you can takepost-breakup is environmental
changes remove reminders,pictures, things that they gave
you, or home improvement choicesand style choices that they
yeah, she even mentions maybeeven just changing up your
(31:57):
furniture in your bedroom,because the chances are you
spent a lot of time in there,yeah, and so you just might need
to change what that looks.
You know that looks like.
So you can really separate yourbrain and get yourself
physically, your nervous systemphysically, so you feel like
you're in a new time period,yeah yeah.
Charles (32:14):
The other thing is build support systems, reach out
and, you know, sort of rekindlesome of those friendships that
maybe got neglected during yourrelationship activities, hobbies
, groups of people that youwould associate with.
Try to dive back into thosethings if you can.
One of the things I'll disagreewith her on is she said to
avoid any breakup diets orbreakup exercise regimes in an
(32:37):
effort to get them back or tomake them feel sorry for losing
out on the better version of you.
No, I say embrace both of thoseand I would say, don't adopt
some kind of a crash diet.
That's not going to beeffective for you in the long
run.
That's silly under anycircumstance.
But if the current motivationis I want to get in better shape
to get them back, or I want toget in better shape to make them
(33:00):
regret losing me, I don't carewhat your motivation is.
Dan (33:03):
Sometimes that's what you do.
Yeah, absolutely To get overthat hump.
Charles (33:06):
Yeah, post-breakup is a great time to take on a big
project like that, and if youform the behavior and the habits
and the patterns of beingsomebody that eats better and
works out more, I really don'tcare what your motivation is.
Yeah, go ahead and do that andmake it work for you, and then
(33:26):
the hope is down the road you'llkeep it going, even if, after
11 weeks or a year or whatever,your motivation changes.
You've got the habits and thepatterns in place and you can
just maintain those.
Dan (33:35):
Yeah, I mean, it really starts with our physical bodies
and our physical state in termsof the experience that we bring
and get out of the world.
And so if you can improve thatby dropping a few pounds or
getting into some healthierhabits, then you're going to
start to open up other otheropportunity, your brain's going
to start to function better.
You're going to attract otherkinds of people to you.
(33:59):
So I agree, sometimes we needto focus on whether that's
intrinsic motivation of you know, do something that's positive,
then use it.
Don't hold on to that and letthat be the only way that you
(34:27):
can get stuff done.
But sometimes more difficultthings, those obstacles you want
to overcome, they're difficult.
You need that fire.
Charles (34:33):
Yeah, and I mean I think of other things If you
decide, okay, I'm going tovolunteer with the dog shelter
or Habitat Human, just so shesees me being a great guy.
It's like the people whosehouses are getting built or the
dogs are going for a walk.
They don't care what yourmotivation is, they're they're
benefiting from it anyway.
So I say you know, if, if thatis, if those thoughts that
(34:56):
society say aren't okay, so youdoing things that are good for
yourself and good for otherpeople, then go ahead and do
them.
You know, I don't care if theguy who's volunteering at the
animal shelter is just doing itso that his ex will feel sorry
that she dumped him.
Right, I care that the dogs andcats are benefiting from, you
know, clean places and going forwalks and stuff like that.
(35:16):
So do these things that benefityourself and other people, for
whatever motivation, and thenhopefully, if you're doing the
other things right, post breakup, the negative motivations will
fall to the wayside and you'llkeep positively affecting
yourself and the world aroundyou, yeah, and you're going to
be exposing yourself to multiplepositive experiences.
Dan (35:37):
Yes, initially, that that motivation might be not ideal,
not might might not be thatperfect world.
You know that that altruistic?
Yeah right, which is horseshitanyway.
So you know, I don't believealtruism actually exists, so
you're doing it to feel good,we're on the same page about so
the thing is, you're going tosurprise yourself because you'll
be like, oh my god, now youmight adopt a dog because you
(35:58):
spent this amazing afternoonwith them and now, like your,
your world's lit up becauseyou've got a dog to come home to
all the time, right, and sothere's going to be and you gave
you know a stray a new home.
So, exactly, yeah, there's.
There's so many more beneficialoutcomes and there's really, I
mean, I don't even understandwhat the negative consequences
would be, even if you had amotivation from a not socially
(36:24):
acceptable position.
Right, I, I tend to like I'mstruggling to figure it out.
I mean, there might besomewhere around.
Charles (36:31):
She doesn't hit the example of volunteering she, she
just focuses on diet andexercise Again.
I think it applies Like if, if,whatever your motivation is for
diet and exercise, again, aslong as you're choosing healthy
and effective maybe and maybeshe didn't talk about that that
it would you know if you do itin a healthy way.
Dan (36:46):
Maybe she's talking about crash diets.
That's the only thing I couldthink of would be.
It might make you do things.
Charles (36:51):
In a way, the idea of, don't do it for them, do it for
you and it's like well, if doingit for them is what strikes a
chord with you right now, postbreakup, right, and do it for
them, yeah, as long as you'redoing it.
I mean because you know there'sno way that every second you're
in the gym lifting heavyweights, you're going to only be
thinking about them.
It's not going to be veryshort-lived, and your muscle
(37:12):
fibers don't care who you'rethinking about when you're in
the gym.
They just care that you're inthere moving heavy weights.
Dan (37:16):
Same thing with your cholesterol level and everything
else right your body fat.
Charles (37:19):
None of that cares about what your motivation is.
All your body is going to belike oh, we're moving, we're
releasing some endorphins, we'reexperiencing some serotonin and
we're getting healthier and notbreathing as hard when we put
our socks on.
So, yeah, I would say leveragewhatever motivation comes your
way.
But yeah, like you said, thereis no altruism.
(37:41):
Even if you, you donate youknow, 10 million dollars to the
hospital anonymously and theybuild a new wing on it, you've
bought 10 million dollars ofamazing feelings yes, and so it
still.
It still is about you.
Dan (37:51):
Yes and I don't think there's nothing wrong with that,
and there's nothing.
Charles (37:55):
We don't want to tell ourselves some story where, well
, it's only if I sufferanonymously that it's the right
thing to do.
It's like, no, that's, that'scoming from the cancer kids on
that new wing.
Even you know, even if yourname's all over it, they're
still benefiting from it.
So right, that's fine, yeahyeah I agree.
Yeah, I could.
I could argue about altruismday in and day out, but not with
(38:15):
you, because you're, I agreeyou agree, well, you should
right yeah all right.
So that's the book, dan.
I don't know exactly what we'regoing to do next, but you and I
will certainly decide by nextweek and we'll be back with a
fresh episode on another book.
One of the things DatingEssentials for Men, part 2, is
on our list.
We want to talk about that.
We want to spend a little bitof time talking about the male
(38:37):
loneliness epidemic throughreality and a couple other
topics that I'd like to get into, but you and I will have a talk
this week, within the nextcouple of days, about which one
we want to settle on, and wewill also, at some point, I'm
going to open up an event forour listeners in the Central
Florida area where, if they wantto get together and hang out
(38:57):
with us, they can.
So you and I are going to talkabout what that looks like
logistically, and we'll put outa date and a place with plenty
of notice where people couldjust show up and buy us dinner.
Yeah, yeah, that sounds good.
Rub elbows with us.
So all right, dan.
Thanks very much.
We'll talk to you next time.
Overall, I slightly recommendthe book more than I recommend
staying away from it.
(39:18):
All right, that's 51% for Mal,3.1 stars.
All right, all right.
All right, take it easy.
All right, have a good one.
Thanks so much for listening tothe entire episode, dan, and I
certainly do appreciate it.
Hit mindfullymasculinecom ifyou want to check out our audio
episodes, video episodes andanything else we feel like
sharing, and next week we willbe back with a new series on a
(39:39):
new topic, so tune in and
The version of that person that they are now.
That's like the best, that's,that's where the best, that's as
good as it can get Right.
So over time it can only getworse, Are you?
Are you totally happy andthrilled now?
But if there's any like cracksin that, like pay, attention,
pay attention.
Charles (00:15):
You're thinking, you know, boy, he or she is great,
but I, I just wish they were,you know, more committed to
their health, more committed totheir career development, that
they were a little bit more, youknow, easygoing and good
humored when I make a joke.
I wish they were a little bit.
Maybe down the road they'll geta little bit more of the thing
I want.
No, they will either stay thesame or get what you perceive to
(00:37):
be worse.
Dan (00:37):
If you start using that as soon as the words, but or maybe
as you're starting to describeyour relationship with another
person, that's probably a goodindication that you need to
reevaluate.
Charles (00:46):
Welcome to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast.
This is Charles.
Today, we are closing out ourseries on the Let them Theory by
Mel Robbins with the finalthree chapters.
These chapters focus onrelationships, romantic ones in
particular.
We'll talk about how to letpeople show you who they are,
how to have the commitmentconversation without losing your
footing, and how to handlebreakups in a way that leads to
(01:06):
growth instead of more pain.
It's a powerful way to wrap upthis book, and we'll be pulling
out the lessons that matter mostfor men who want to build
healthier, more intentionalconnections.
If you'd like to catch all ofour audio and video episodes,
check us out atmindfullymasculinecom.
Thanks for listening and enjoythe episode.
Good morning, charles.
Dan (01:26):
Hello again, Dan.
How are you?
I'm well.
How's our equipment doing?
Charles (01:30):
It's fine when I don't kick the power plug in.
All right, so we're coveringthe last three chapters of the
Let them Theory 18, 19, and 20.
And this focuses onrelationships and how to
navigate those particularlyromantic relationships.
So we're going to get intochapter 18 let them show you who
(01:51):
they are.
Chapter 19, how to take yourrelationship to the next level,
and chapter 20, how every endingis a beautiful beginning, which
I find that title somewhatcliche and annoying.
Dan (02:01):
But for the last chapter of the book.
Charles (02:03):
I feel like I've got to move some books yeah, some way
and cute.
So let's start with chapter 18.
Let them show you who they are.
This one, she, she builds onsome stuff from the last couple
of chapters, which is don't tryto fix people, don't try to
change people, certainly don'ttry to get into a romantic
partnership with someone basedon the assumption of you know
they just need a little bit oftweak and I can adjust them to
(02:24):
be the partner I need them to be.
Dan (02:26):
Yeah, I liked one of her quotes, which was a purpose of
dating isn't to find the one,it's to find yourself.
Charles (02:32):
Yeah, I like that too.
And, um, really understandingwhat it is that you need and how
you love, and, yeah, that thatis the that should be the goal,
and seeing how you know who youwant to be and who you really
are is reflected in yourrelationship with another person
.
Dan (02:49):
Yeah, I feel like I ended up in that state where I figured
out over way too much timetrying to find the one I ended
up finding myself.
But if I had gone in with thatmindset of I'm trying to figure
out what I want, it would havemade things a lot easier and I
would have put a lot lesspressure on myself to stick out
relationships longer than Ishould have or not expressed my
(03:13):
needs, wants and boundariesRight A lot of stuff that Glover
talks about and he helped mefinally get to that point where
I realized, hey, I need tofigure out what I want in order
for me to even stand a chance offinding out somebody who's
going to be compatible with me.
Charles (03:27):
Yeah, there's a quote by, I think it was Mark Manson
that said the only universal,effective dating advice is
self-improvement.
And so you know, I've.
I've got a, a friend who's in arelationship that she's not
satisfied with and is she knowsshe's kind of spinning her heels
in this relationship and tryingto figure out, you know, how to
(03:47):
get out of it and how to feellike she can get out of it.
And my advice to her for a longtime, and whenever she asks for
advice, I'll always give her thesame advice, which is get
healthier and healthier to thepoint where the negative aspects
of this relationship are nolonger attractive to you, or
this person's no longerattractive to you.
And the only way you can changethat is by getting healthier
(04:07):
and healthier and and replacingbad, unhealthy patterns with
good, healthy patterns, to thepoint where you're like, okay,
this, this guy, he doesn't fitinto who I am now, yeah, and
then you'll naturally transitionout of the relationship, but
trying to dig your heels in andsay, okay, now I'm ready for a
breakup this time.
And if you're not ready, ifyour nervous system still wants
(04:28):
all the unhealthy things thatyou know you and your partner
are creating this relationship,then the breakup's not going to
hold, or you'll replace it withsomebody else with the same
problems.
Dan (04:38):
I think one of the challenges a lot of us run into
is that the negativeconsequences of that
relationship don't feel worse orworse than taking on the
uncomfortable challenges toimprove yourself.
Right, I think you're stillgetting enough of those little
bits of dopamine, those thatgood times with them, even
(04:58):
though it's not what you want inthe end.
It's a lot easier to swallowthat than it is to really like.
Look at yourself and want tomake difficult changes or
potentially what we think aredifficult changes, and I think
we need to kind of reframe thatand go hey, it doesn't need to
be difficult.
It could just be you going inand doing a hobby somewhere or
meeting a bunch of people doingthe same thing that you're
(05:19):
interested in, instead of goingout with this dude on a Friday
night, instead of going out withthis dude, you know, on a
Friday night, right, but there'sa chance that you might have a
good time with him and you'reremembering all those things in
the past that happened where youhad that one amazing night.
You're hoping that might happenagain, but meanwhile you just
you kind of like you mentionedin the last time we were talking
about you're kind of wastingyour time with somebody who's
(05:42):
not the right fit, and there'san opportunity cost, because now
you're not out there able tomeet the person who's a better
fit yeah, one thing to also keepin mind is that sometimes, you
know, it's very hard for us,when we're in the middle of a
relationship, to do the goodtimes versus bad times math,
like okay, well, for last youknow month, the bad times have
(06:02):
outweighed the good times.
Charles (06:03):
therefore, therefore, I will just end the relationship.
It's like, wish it was thateasy.
Yeah, it's not, because theother things about the
relationship that your nervoussystem may have grown to crave
whether that's the familiarity,the chaos, the ups and downs,
the emotional highs and lows,those kind of override the
simple math of good times versusbad times.
And sometimes this wholechapter is all about patterns,
(06:26):
where it's like you get intothese patterns and you should be
able to recognize the patternsand trust the patterns, because
the only way to really have agood idea of what the future
will hold is to look at thepatterns of the past right and,
as you mentioned before on theconversation, that we didn't
record which is really, whichwas which was.
Dan (06:43):
It's like a drug, it's a pattern.
It's not just a behaviorpattern.
There's a physical pattern thatwe engage in and that becomes
tied to our bodies and ournervous system so that we really
are addicted to operating inthis way, or very used to
operating in this way.
So that adds a whole notherlayer of challenge when it comes
(07:05):
time to trying to break thosepatterns.
It's not just a oh yeah I, youknow, I did a pros and cons list
and it's easy for me to go Allright, yeah, no, no problem,
we're going to start changingsomething.
Yeah, it's just.
It's a lot more than just yourbrain going I should be doing
this.
It's wow, yeah, you have tolike literally change the way
you feel, and that's sometimesextremely difficult when, when
(07:26):
you've had such highs as youmentioned too is in that
honeymoon period a lot of times,we're establishing really
amazing new experiences.
You've got your best footforward, even going to the same
restaurant you've been to amillion times.
You're going to that new rest,that rest, that same restaurant,
with somebody who's new Right.
Million times.
You're going to that new rest,that rest, that same restaurant
(07:46):
with somebody's new that's goingto build additional.
You know physical, likeneuropathways and feelings of
good feelings and our brain,when we feel good, we want to
repeat that.
We get cravings to repeat thatsame thing.
Charles (07:55):
Let's do that again, over and over and over again,
and even if it's not happening,we're thinking, oh, there might
be a chance we can get backthere, yes, right, yes, and us,
you know, depending on what elseis going on in the mix of brain
chemistry that makes you you,when you have challenges with
things like adhd, insecureattachment, I mean all these
things kind of factor into andhow you.
(08:18):
You use that honeymoon periodto build a benchmark of what
relationships should be, and alot of us, myself included, have
difficulty making the move fromthat honeymoon period to just
the day in, day out of.
This is what I'm like, this iswhat this other person is like,
and are the non-hormone-fueled,manic versions of us people that
(08:41):
can enjoy a healthyrelationship together.
Dan (08:44):
Yeah, and I know a lot of times we'll make excuses as to
why they're behaving this waynow and not the way they were in
the honeymoon period, like,well, this person just got a new
, this other person they justgot a new job, so they're a
little bit more stressed, orthey just had this huge thing
happen in their life, and so youknow they're not sleeping as
well, so they're a littlecrankier.
(09:05):
And before we know it, it's.
This is just the way theyoperate, and and there's always
going to be something that comesup in life that's going to be
stressful.
How do they handle that stressRight?
And?
And so there's always going tobe something.
Charles (09:16):
That's why it's a good idea not to, you know, make any
big decisions and bigcommitments during that
honeymoon phase, because youknow people are at the beginning
of the relationship, people aregoing to be as engaged,
exciting, attractive as they'reever going to be.
I mean attractive simply as afunction of time, right?
I mean, the clock's not runningbackwards for some of us and
(09:38):
forwards for others, it'srunning forwards for all of us.
And so you know if, and that'swhy even the most valuable time
to be on the lookout for thosered flags is in the time where
you're least likely to be on thelookout for the red flags
during that honeymoon phase.
Because you know if, if thereare, if there are patterns and
behaviors that you're seeingduring the honeymoon phase that
you're like I'm a littleuncomfortable, maybe he or she
(10:01):
will get that together, you know, so that we can be together
forever.
It's like no, this, this is.
It's like when, when the salesguy won't return your call in
the pre sales cycle yeah,they're.
They're certainly not going toget better at returning your
call after you've, after youbought the product.
Dan (10:17):
Right yeah.
Charles (10:18):
They're going to get worse.
Dan (10:19):
Absolutely.
I mean, um, so quick, quickexample here I brought my car to
a new repair place this lastweek and just for like an oil
change and like the middleconsole button wasn't working
and I was like, hey, can youjust take a look at that?
I didn't know anything aboutthis mechanic.
It got good ratings on Googlethey that actually engages the
button on the middle console aswell as the trunk.
(10:40):
I was rummaging around in theglove box before that and
realized after the fact that Ihad engaged this valet switch
and it basically stopped it fromopening.
As soon as I clicked the valetswitch, boom, it opened, no
problem.
(11:00):
So either I left the review, Iwas just like either they don't
know, right, they don't know thecraft, or they were trying to
take advantage of me.
But the point is I'm nevergoing to go back there again,
right?
So that's the thing.
It's like I've had those firstdates where they've done the
basically the same thing, wherethey've made like they made a
crappy comment about a fatperson one time and I was just
(11:21):
like, oh you know, they werejust kind of joking around, but
at the time I was just like.
I was like I was a littleuncomfortable.
I'm like I can't tell ifthey're fully joking or they're
actually like serious.
You know it was just like, oh,look at that fat.
And I was just like, oh, my God, like at the time.
But then everything else waswas, you know, really good, and
I kind of let that go.
I was attracted and everything.
Looking back, I could havesaved myself like two, three
(11:48):
years of a relationship if I hadlistened and objectively
evaluated the situation ofreality at that time and all the
hormones and everything else.
You know I wasn't paying, youknow didn't could see through
all of that.
Charles (11:56):
That's interesting.
That brings in another quotefrom the chapter that I think we
can use in a couple ways theidea of if they're into you,
you'll know, and if they're not,you'll be confused.
I would also say if they intoyou, you'll know, and if they're
not, you'll be confused.
I would also say if they'recompatible, you'll know, and if
they're not compatible, you'llbe having a lot of conversations
with yourself why they might becompatible.
Dan (12:14):
That's a great way to extrapolate that.
A hundred percent, absolutely.
That's even more important torealize as you're going on dates
is, yeah, if you need to workto figure out whether they're
compatible or not In your ownhead, in your own head, they're
having conversations withyourself or with a friend or
anybody else, and you're askingquestions versus going in like,
oh my God, I can't believe howcompatible we are.
(12:35):
Right, I mean, that's still noguarantee at that point, right?
Charles (12:38):
Right.
Dan (12:39):
That's.
That's a great way of lookingat it.
Charles (12:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Especially look for the waythat people talk about and treat
other people Like.
If they're making cracks aboutsomebody being overweight, if
they're being rude to servers,if they're showing you those
things, then if it's somethingyou don't know because you don't
care and it's not a problem foryou and you're the same way,
then you can both be pieces ofshit together.
(13:01):
Yeah.
But if you're a person whereit's like, oh my gosh, I can't
believe she talked that way tothe valet that we were giving
the car keys to.
She's not only talking that wayto that one valet.
Dan (13:12):
Correct.
And another way to look at itis if you were on a date with
this person and you overheardthe couple next to you, one of
those people, say something likethat, how would you feel about
that?
Charles (13:21):
Right, I want to be the girl I'm sitting across.
I want to be.
I wanted to be someone that Icould share a glance with and be
like god.
You can get a load of thosepeople.
And she's like can you?
I can't believe what I justheard.
You don't want to be sittingacross from the person that's
saying those things.
So the couple next to you isbonding over how terrible she is
right, yeah, exactly.
Dan (13:40):
and looking back, it's just like, oh my god, you blind
mother, like I can't believe youjust didn't you just swept that
under the rug, exactly.
Oh my God, yeah, because shewas pretty or exciting, or I
hadn't had a date in God knowshow long at that point.
Right, right, yeah.
So I'm letting it all go, right.
Charles (13:58):
Yeah.
So I felt that this chapter 18was mostly targeted and tell me
if you disagree mostly targetedto women who are in
relationships that they're notfeeling satisfied with, and
which is okay, you know, mel,mel gets to pick whatever
audience for whatever section ofthe book she feels like it, but
I did feel it.
May be, you know, that's, maybeguys have had the same
(14:19):
experience and other guys wouldread this book and feel like, oh
, I feel like she's talking tome.
I didn't feel like that because, yeah, typically I think in our
society, you know, men canoften be the kind of gatekeepers
on commitment, and so most ofthe time that somebody is
complaining that somebody is notas committed as they would like
(14:40):
or not as invested, it'susually at least in heterosexual
relationships it's usually thewoman complaining about the man.
I think that's a function ofboth biology and culture, and so
I did feel like the main thrustor the main benefit of this
chapter would be like hey,ladies, if you're in this
relationship and he's not givingyou what you want or what you
(15:02):
need in the way of commitment orinvestment or whatever, here
are some of the things you cando about that that are within
your control, like here's howyou can recognize what's not in
your control from what is inyour control.
And once you recognize what isin your control, here's how you
can act in a way to find out ifthis is going to work or not.
100%, and a big part of that wasthe Matthew Hussey conversation
(15:24):
about when you want acommitment at a level that you
don't currently have.
Here's how you sit your partnerdown and ask for it.
Yeah, and I like the idea ofkeeping it you focused of you
know.
Here's how I feel.
Here's what I want.
Here are the things I value.
Now the ball's in your court.
Are you on board with this ordo I need to keep looking?
Essentially not in an ultimatumway, but just as a these?
(15:47):
These are the values that Ibased my dating life around, and
I need somebody that is on thesame page with those values and
your.
Dan (15:56):
The actions you take in committing to me, are going to
determine whether you've got aplace in my dating life or not
yeah, and and she mentions thisI think the real most, the most
important part is going intothis conversation with the
proper intention.
It's not to get what you want.
It's not to expressdisappointment in the fact that
you're not getting what you want.
(16:16):
It's to seek clarification.
Charles (16:17):
It can't be the number one.
Attaining them is not thenumber one goal of this
conversation.
Attaining clarity is the numberone goal of the conversation.
Dan (16:24):
I feel like, if we do, you know, if you're trying to attain
them you'll say what you havesubconsciously Right.
You're going to try to make themfeel guilty.
You might get more upset thanthan than you need to be, and
that might indirectly make themfeel guilty, and then they could
be giving you an inaccurateresponse because they don't want
you to feel bad.
Part of that was, hey, I reallyenjoyed what we've had, you
(16:50):
know.
But at this point I know myself, I want a commitment and I only
want to invest my time andenergy in somebody who's looking
for the same thing, and if youdon't, that's totally fine.
But I just want to let you knowthat's that's where I'm at.
Charles (16:59):
I'm at my decision point.
Dan (17:00):
Right and you're just really looking for information.
I mean, think about it.
You're, you know, you're goingon Google, you're asking chat,
gpt.
I just need some clarificationhere.
Try to go in with without asyou're trying to express
emotions, because then you don't, you don't want to.
You want to find out reality isfrom that other person and you
want to make it as easy aspossible for the other person to
(17:20):
feel like they can give youthat truth without feeling like
there's going to be consequencesif they don't give you what you
want.
Charles (17:28):
Yeah, here's the thing I took away from that
conversation there's alwaysgoing to be a dynamic
interrelationship of power, ofattraction, of status.
I mean your relationshipshouldn't be all about those
things, but they are going to bepresent.
And when I go to you and say Iwant a commitment from you, I
want you know, it's very easy tokind of.
(17:49):
The result of that could beputting one person on a pedestal
and bringing yourself down hereLike I'm down here begging you
to be with me and commit to me.
Will you please do it?
Dan (17:57):
That's one way.
Charles (17:59):
Where I mean, I think that's the default.
Whenever one person initiatesthe, let's start saying I want a
commitment conversation.
It is kind of I'm down here,you're up here, I'm asking you
to give me something that I need, following the model that she
describes in this chapter thatMatthew Hussey's girlfriend came
to him with.
It takes that and puts you bothon the exact same level, which
(18:21):
is why it's so valuable and soeffective.
Dan (18:23):
Right and, as you said, yeah, because you're saying
you're using I.
So it's like I value my timeand energy and at this point, if
I'm going to continue to investin it, in this relationship, I
want to do that with somebodywho's on the same page, and I
think that is really kind ofwhat brings you up to that same
level, because you're not sayingI'm incomplete without you, I
need this.
It's it's not a need anymore,it's a, it's a want.
(18:47):
At this point, right, and itmight be a need in terms of this
is you're now saying you knowthis.
It's a need in that, if I'mgoing to continue to give my
time and energy.
Charles (18:57):
This is what it's value , if that works for me, and
whether or not you participatein that life is going to be you
to answer.
You know how how we resolvethis conversation, and and again
because you know some of itcould be how how we resolve this
conversation, and and againbecause you know some of it
could be if, if you go into thisconversation the way many of us
often do, where you're downhere and they're up here on this
pedestal and you're asking themto give you something that you
need from them, the very natureof that conversation makes the
(19:20):
other person think, oh, ifthey're, if they're coming to me
asking like this, maybe, maybeI'm too special to say yes to a
commitment with them.
Dan (19:27):
Could be yeah.
Charles (19:28):
And so, yeah, I I think it's one of the most essential
takeaways from this book is isframing that commitment
conversation in a way whereyou're going into it as an equal
party, saying enjoy you, Iappreciate you, but what I
require is this kind of clarityin my relationships, and now
it's your turn to say where youthink you fit into that.
Dan (19:50):
Yeah, I think that kind of rolls up into a lot of what I'm
taking out of this book, whichis the let me part is the part
where you learn to valueyourself right.
So it's the let them, so youcan actually let go of that
emotional attachment to thesituation.
The let me, then, is I'm takingpower, I'm taking control, I'm
(20:10):
making a decision, and by doingthat, you are saying that you
are valuable enough to makethose decisions.
You're valuable enough, yeah.
Charles (20:19):
Yeah.
Dan (20:19):
Basically make those decisions.
Charles (20:21):
Yeah, you have to.
Yeah, a life that works for youhas to be the priority over and
above any one other person, youknow, and so if you find
yourself in a situation where,hey, this isn't working for me,
then you know you owe it toyourself to get yourself out of
that situation.
Yeah, because you know, ifyou're like most of us, if
you're practicing monogamy andyou want to have one partner
(20:43):
that you're dedicated to and isdedicated to you, every day you
spend with the wrong partner isa day that you're not spending
with the right partner and not,not.
There's a you know a one personout there that, but yeah, any.
Any time you're spending withsomebody that doesn't match your
values is a time right.
You're robbing yourself ofsomeone who does and as, as you
(21:04):
said, is you.
Dan (21:05):
You know, by expressing what your needs are, you're not
just doing yourself a favor,you're doing the other person a
favor too.
Right, because if you then gointo this relationship because
you guilted that person intogoing, oh well, you know,
because you came upset andyou're like I need you to commit
to me.
And then I'm and I've been onthe other end of that and I'm
like, okay, yeah, let's do thisbecause there's a little bit of
(21:28):
good there and I don't want herto be upset.
But the bottom line is I knewthat person was wrong for me and
I shouldn't have done that.
But if you go into theconversation and you say, or you
continue in the relationshipwhere you aren't a hundred
percent getting you in returnwhat you are investing in,
you're going to get resentful.
Then you're not going to bringyour best self and you're going
to sabotage your ownrelationship that the one that
you thought you wanted, becauseyou were too scared to actually
(21:51):
have that conversation at thebeginning and go this is where
my standards are and I needsomeone to match that.
So don't go in there and tryingto manipulate someone into
getting what you want, causeyou're not going to be happy in
the end.
Charles (22:03):
Anyway're doing yourself a disservice.
You get, you get a yeah if you,if you guilt or manipulate
somebody into a commitment theydon't want to make, then you're
getting the version of them thatyou don't want to have or
you've got this underlying weirdarrogance that you think you
can change them right, like, oh,they're not exactly what I want
, but we'll figure it out, I'll.
Dan (22:21):
I'll figure out how to change them, like in a weird way
.
That's awfully arrogant, don'tyou think?
Charles (22:26):
yeah, it certainly is.
And uh, yeah, and that's.
That's one of the things thatinsecurely attached, codependent
people certainly struggle withis, you know, I, I need to
justify their presence in mylife, even though they're not
right for me.
So I'll, I'll believe, if Ijust, you know, bear down and
white knuckle it hard enough,I'll be able to turn them into
(22:47):
what, what they need to be forme.
Dan (22:49):
Right, yeah, yeah.
Charles (22:50):
Not never heard of it working?
Dan (22:52):
Yeah, well, I mean you, you've told me a few times you
know the you should, you shouldthe version of that person that
they are now.
That's like the best.
That's.
That's where the that's as goodas it can get Right.
So over time it can only getworse.
Are you?
Are you totally happy andthrilled now?
But if there's any like cracksin that, like pay attention pay
(23:14):
attention.
Charles (23:15):
You're thinking, you know, boy, he or she is great,
but I I just wish they were, youknow, more committed to their
health, more committed to theircareer development, that they
were a little bit more, you know, easygoing and good humored
when I make a joke.
I wish they were a little bit.
Maybe down the road they'll geta little bit more of the thing
I want.
No, they will either stay thesame or get what you perceive to
(23:36):
be worse.
Dan (23:37):
If you start using that as soon as the words, but or maybe
as you're starting to describeyour relationship with another
person, that's probably a goodindication that you need to
reevaluate Breakups.
Charles (23:47):
Best case scenario it's mostly mutual and it still
sucks and it still hurts andit's still going to be a rough
thing for you to go through.
In a worst case scenario, youget what you believe to be
blindsided by someone you wantto be with who doesn't want to
be with you anymore and, ineither case, the feelings that
you're experiencing experiencingthere are no shortcuts to make
it better.
There are only shortcuts tomake it worse.
(24:09):
Right, right yeah where the theonly thing that any any
shortcuts you try to take to getthrough the pain of the
heartbreak is usually just goingto result in it hurting worse
and longer yeah, I mean shementions what 30 days no contact
, and I know, uh, some of theother books have said what like
90 days no contact, or nocontact at all ever part of it
(24:30):
depends on what you want.
If, if you're looking to getback together with the person,
then, um, some people will say30 or 90 days of no contact and
and then you write them a letter, blah, blah, blah.
And I I think the good adviceis very clear on that If someone
breaks up with you and you wantto get back together with them,
(24:50):
you never contact them again.
I mean, after you know you havesettled out the logistics of
the breakup, you know you'vegotten your stuff, they've
gotten their stuff.
If you've done anything likereally dramatically
inappropriate that you need toapologize for, then you
apologize for it, but then thedumper never hears from you ever
(25:10):
again for the rest of your life.
If they reach out to you, youcan choose to respond to them.
Yeah, if your goal is torecover from the breakup and
possibly get back together withthem, you go into no contact as
soon as is logically feasibleand you just never reach out to
you, never initiate conversationwith them again so that sounds
like accepting reality, correct?
on reality's terms.
On reality's terms, yes, oh, Ilike.
(25:31):
And so yeah, the if, if you'rewilling to stay broken up with
them and realize that thebreakup was for the best, then
yes, it's possible down the roadyou could have a friendship
with them.
But honestly, I mean I wouldtread carefully with that,
because having a lot of ongoingfriendships with exes is going
to introduce complication toyour new relationships.
(25:53):
And so you've got to, you gotto really weigh that to say, oh,
is my friendship with this ex,you know barring?
You have a business together,you have kids together, you have
pets together, you know stufflike that.
You have to deal with thosesituations as they exist,
without any of those kind ofcomplicating factors.
A guy who's got, or a gal who'sgot, a string of ex-partners
(26:15):
and ex-lovers that they're justfriends with, that is going to
seem like a red flag to the newperson that you might be
interested in.
Dan (26:21):
Yeah, 100%.
And.
Charles (26:21):
I think that's reasonable.
I mean I would, if somebody hada lot of close friendships, or
even a close friendship withsomebody that they were
previously romantically involvedwith, even though they didn't
have a business together, kidstogether, my attitude would be
like, okay, I, you might not bethe person for me, then if
you're, if you're stilldedicated to this ongoing
friendship, no-transcript, justkind of have to, and I mean that
(27:16):
could even be something thatyou go into it with, like, hey,
I'd like to reestablish afriendship with you, but just so
you know that friendship isgoing to have to go on hiatus if
I get another romantic interest, because I don't think it would
be fair to that new partner forme to still be contacting you.
Dan (27:30):
Yeah, and it's funny because you know we hear these
stories about most of the timewe understand oh yeah, it's not
good if they're really goodfriends with a lot of their exes
.
We understand that.
But as she talks about is, wealways think we're the exception
to the rule, so this is goingto be different.
It doesn't.
That doesn't really apply to us, because they clearly can
handle their exes differently.
Or, yeah, this warning label itdoesn't apply to me and I think
(27:54):
we fall into that trap when itcomes to relationships here too.
Charles (27:57):
Yeah, I would say the sweet spot is going to be you
want somebody that is willing tospeak about their past
relationships and their formerpartners in a way that is, you
know, oh, she was crazy, she wasinsane, she was a bad person.
I mean that's, that's a hugered flag, and I've I've told
younger guys like never, never,talk negatively about your
(28:20):
former partners, because thatsays as much or more about how
bad of a person you are than itdoes about her.
Dan (28:26):
Yeah, I think it's important to recognize and try
to identify your role in thoserelationships too.
You don't need to speak atlength about you know what a
terrible person you think youare.
You know in that lastrelationship.
But I think balancing it outand realize it takes two to
tango in that relationship andtheir decisions that you made
that probably led to theproblems that you had.
So take some responsibility andownership of your you know of
(28:49):
you in that relationship.
It doesn't mean it all falls onyou either.
But at the same time, if you'resaying this person was crazy,
that person was crazy, thatperson's crazy, what's the
common denominator?
Charles (29:00):
here Exactly, and so yeah, common denominator exactly
, and so yeah, you can.
You can also assume that,however somebody is speaking
about their ex, that's going tobe exactly how they speak about
you when your relationship isover too or they could be
thinking hey, is he thinkingthat I'm crazy?
Dan (29:15):
right now, even before the relationship is over, you could
be sabotaging your existingrelationship because now you've
put those thoughts into theperson's mind, so even those
that haven't happened.
Wait a second.
This guy's dated four crazywomen in a row.
He's dating me right like I'mcrazy, exactly, or, and or they
might even question themselvesis this crazy what I'm doing now
?
Now they start questioningthemselves.
Now they're not going to bringtheir best self to the
(29:37):
relationship because they'realways feeling like they're
scrutinizing themselves evenmore so yeah, so I, I would say,
look for partners that are notstill enmeshed with their former
partners, but also not justconstantly talking crap about
their former partners either.
Charles (29:52):
Find somebody that's in the middle of those, and I
think that maximizes your yourpotential for success.
Dan (29:57):
So I don't know what your experience has been like on
dates and getting to know people.
Have you run into a lot ofpeople who want to constantly
talk about their exes and theirprevious relationships and
things like that?
I feel like, and it's likeearly on in the dates, I feel
like that can be dangerous,dangerous waters to be treading
in.
Charles (30:16):
I mean, usually that only happens when there's some
unresolved feelings about theperson or the breakup.
Yeah, yeah, if somebody is, ifsomebody is preoccupied with the
, the negatives or the traumasof their last relationship to
the point where they're bringingthem up fairly frequently with
a new partner, then thatprobably means that they've got
(30:37):
some work they have to do yeahand you know one of the things
you know when it comes to movingpast a negative or challenging
relationship, whether that's oneyou had with your parents or
with a former partner orwhatever.
It's like having a cohesivenarrative in your own head about
understanding.
You know what led to therelationship, why the
relationship was negative, whathappened, why it happened.
(30:57):
That seems to be a big part ofbeing able to move on past it.
And so if you still, if youhaven't, or your partner hasn't
figured out why the relationship, you know what the good and bad
parts of it were, why itsucceeded, why it failed, why
you felt traumatized by it.
If that's not something that aperson can express to themselves
and I would say, at least oneother person, whether that's a
(31:19):
sponsor and recovery group or atherapist or, you know, even a
best friend and confidant if youcan't express here's, here's
why I got into the relationship,here's what when, here's what
was good at the beginning,here's what went wrong, here's
why I still have unresolvedfeelings.
If that's not a story you'reready to tell, you might not be
ready to be in anotherrelationship yet.
Dan (31:37):
Yeah, that's.
That's a great litmus test forsure.
Yeah, yeah um.
So, speaking more about the uh,the breakups, some of the
practical steps you can takepost-breakup is environmental
changes remove reminders,pictures, things that they gave
you, or home improvement choicesand style choices that they
yeah, she even mentions maybeeven just changing up your
(31:57):
furniture in your bedroom,because the chances are you
spent a lot of time in there,yeah, and so you just might need
to change what that looks.
You know that looks like.
So you can really separate yourbrain and get yourself
physically, your nervous systemphysically, so you feel like
you're in a new time period,yeah yeah.
Charles (32:14):
The other thing is build support systems, reach out
and, you know, sort of rekindlesome of those friendships that
maybe got neglected during yourrelationship activities, hobbies
, groups of people that youwould associate with.
Try to dive back into thosethings if you can.
One of the things I'll disagreewith her on is she said to
avoid any breakup diets orbreakup exercise regimes in an
(32:37):
effort to get them back or tomake them feel sorry for losing
out on the better version of you.
No, I say embrace both of thoseand I would say, don't adopt
some kind of a crash diet.
That's not going to beeffective for you in the long
run.
That's silly under anycircumstance.
But if the current motivationis I want to get in better shape
to get them back, or I want toget in better shape to make them
(33:00):
regret losing me, I don't carewhat your motivation is.
Dan (33:03):
Sometimes that's what you do.
Yeah, absolutely To get overthat hump.
Charles (33:06):
Yeah, post-breakup is a great time to take on a big
project like that, and if youform the behavior and the habits
and the patterns of beingsomebody that eats better and
works out more, I really don'tcare what your motivation is.
Yeah, go ahead and do that andmake it work for you, and then
(33:26):
the hope is down the road you'llkeep it going, even if, after
11 weeks or a year or whatever,your motivation changes.
You've got the habits and thepatterns in place and you can
just maintain those.
Dan (33:35):
Yeah, I mean, it really starts with our physical bodies
and our physical state in termsof the experience that we bring
and get out of the world.
And so if you can improve thatby dropping a few pounds or
getting into some healthierhabits, then you're going to
start to open up other otheropportunity, your brain's going
to start to function better.
You're going to attract otherkinds of people to you.
(33:59):
So I agree, sometimes we needto focus on whether that's
intrinsic motivation of you know, do something that's positive,
then use it.
Don't hold on to that and letthat be the only way that you
(34:27):
can get stuff done.
But sometimes more difficultthings, those obstacles you want
to overcome, they're difficult.
You need that fire.
Charles (34:33):
Yeah, and I mean I think of other things If you
decide, okay, I'm going tovolunteer with the dog shelter
or Habitat Human, just so shesees me being a great guy.
It's like the people whosehouses are getting built or the
dogs are going for a walk.
They don't care what yourmotivation is, they're they're
benefiting from it anyway.
So I say you know, if, if thatis, if those thoughts that
(34:56):
society say aren't okay, so youdoing things that are good for
yourself and good for otherpeople, then go ahead and do
them.
You know, I don't care if theguy who's volunteering at the
animal shelter is just doing itso that his ex will feel sorry
that she dumped him.
Right, I care that the dogs andcats are benefiting from, you
know, clean places and going forwalks and stuff like that.
(35:16):
So do these things that benefityourself and other people, for
whatever motivation, and thenhopefully, if you're doing the
other things right, post breakup, the negative motivations will
fall to the wayside and you'llkeep positively affecting
yourself and the world aroundyou, yeah, and you're going to
be exposing yourself to multiplepositive experiences.
Dan (35:37):
Yes, initially, that that motivation might be not ideal,
not might might not be thatperfect world.
You know that that altruistic?
Yeah right, which is horseshitanyway.
So you know, I don't believealtruism actually exists, so
you're doing it to feel good,we're on the same page about so
the thing is, you're going tosurprise yourself because you'll
be like, oh my god, now youmight adopt a dog because you
(35:58):
spent this amazing afternoonwith them and now, like your,
your world's lit up becauseyou've got a dog to come home to
all the time, right, and sothere's going to be and you gave
you know a stray a new home.
So, exactly, yeah, there's.
There's so many more beneficialoutcomes and there's really, I
mean, I don't even understandwhat the negative consequences
would be, even if you had amotivation from a not socially
(36:24):
acceptable position.
Right, I, I tend to like I'mstruggling to figure it out.
I mean, there might besomewhere around.
Charles (36:31):
She doesn't hit the example of volunteering she, she
just focuses on diet andexercise Again.
I think it applies Like if, if,whatever your motivation is for
diet and exercise, again, aslong as you're choosing healthy
and effective maybe and maybeshe didn't talk about that that
it would you know if you do itin a healthy way.
Dan (36:46):
Maybe she's talking about crash diets.
That's the only thing I couldthink of would be.
It might make you do things.
Charles (36:51):
In a way, the idea of, don't do it for them, do it for
you and it's like well, if doingit for them is what strikes a
chord with you right now, postbreakup, right, and do it for
them, yeah, as long as you'redoing it.
I mean because you know there'sno way that every second you're
in the gym lifting heavyweights, you're going to only be
thinking about them.
It's not going to be veryshort-lived, and your muscle
(37:12):
fibers don't care who you'rethinking about when you're in
the gym.
They just care that you're inthere moving heavy weights.
Dan (37:16):
Same thing with your cholesterol level and everything
else right your body fat.
Charles (37:19):
None of that cares about what your motivation is.
All your body is going to belike oh, we're moving, we're
releasing some endorphins, we'reexperiencing some serotonin and
we're getting healthier and notbreathing as hard when we put
our socks on.
So, yeah, I would say leveragewhatever motivation comes your
way.
But yeah, like you said, thereis no altruism.
(37:41):
Even if you, you donate youknow, 10 million dollars to the
hospital anonymously and theybuild a new wing on it, you've
bought 10 million dollars ofamazing feelings yes, and so it
still.
It still is about you.
Dan (37:51):
Yes and I don't think there's nothing wrong with that,
and there's nothing.
Charles (37:55):
We don't want to tell ourselves some story where, well
, it's only if I sufferanonymously that it's the right
thing to do.
It's like, no, that's, that'scoming from the cancer kids on
that new wing.
Even you know, even if yourname's all over it, they're
still benefiting from it.
So right, that's fine, yeahyeah I agree.
Yeah, I could.
I could argue about altruismday in and day out, but not with
(38:15):
you, because you're, I agreeyou agree, well, you should
right yeah all right.
So that's the book, dan.
I don't know exactly what we'regoing to do next, but you and I
will certainly decide by nextweek and we'll be back with a
fresh episode on another book.
One of the things DatingEssentials for Men, part 2, is
on our list.
We want to talk about that.
We want to spend a little bitof time talking about the male
(38:37):
loneliness epidemic throughreality and a couple other
topics that I'd like to get into, but you and I will have a talk
this week, within the nextcouple of days, about which one
we want to settle on, and wewill also, at some point, I'm
going to open up an event forour listeners in the Central
Florida area where, if they wantto get together and hang out
(38:57):
with us, they can.
So you and I are going to talkabout what that looks like
logistically, and we'll put outa date and a place with plenty
of notice where people couldjust show up and buy us dinner.
Yeah, yeah, that sounds good.
Rub elbows with us.
So all right, dan.
Thanks very much.
We'll talk to you next time.
Overall, I slightly recommendthe book more than I recommend
staying away from it.
(39:18):
All right, that's 51% for Mal,3.1 stars.
All right, all right.
All right, take it easy.
All right, have a good one.
Thanks so much for listening tothe entire episode, dan, and I
certainly do appreciate it.
Hit mindfullymasculinecom ifyou want to check out our audio
episodes, video episodes andanything else we feel like
sharing, and next week we willbe back with a new series on a
(39:39):
new topic, so tune in and
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