January 30, 2023 • 32 mins
Text us your thoughts on the episode or the show!
In this episode of Ops Cast, we discuss what has been happening across the landscape of Marketing Operations. We all take a breath for a moment and realize just how crazy it has been.
Details about MOps-Apalooza and the journey the team at MarketingOps.com has been on is shared -- Most importantly, the scheduling difficulties for the agenda and what happens with "Summer Camp" are addressed.
Bonus:
Tune in to this episode to hear our special guest "Mickey" (Mike did an impression and now it's out there in the world forever, sorry Mike no takebacks!)
Episode Brought to You By MO Pros
The #1 Community for Marketing Operations Professionals
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michael Hartmann (00:02):
Hello everyone.
Welcome to another episode ofOpsCast, brought to you by
Marketingops.com, powered by theMO Pros.
I am your host, MichaelHartmann.
Join today with my.
Two compadres.
Naomi Liu, Mike Rizzo in.
I think this is our first one torecord.
Just the three of us in 23.
I think so.
Yeah, I think so.
I think so.
Do we, do we have a, I know lastyear was the year of the Mopro.
(00:24):
Is it still the year of theMopro?
It feels like it should be
Naomi Liu (00:27):
the year of the No.
Pro The No
Michael Hartmann (00:30):
Pro.
Mike Rizzo (00:31):
Well, LinkedIn categorized this year as the,
you know, The head of Rev Ops,right?
Mm-hmm.
they're like fastest growingrole.
It's like, good
Michael Hartmann (00:39):
for you.
That's really interesting.
Yeah.
Maybe we'll get into that alittle bit
Mike Rizzo (00:44):
here.
I, I've really felt likevalidated though, like I to, I
can't remember who posted it,uh, first when it was on, like
Good Morning America or some,some news channel that was
Michael Hartmann (00:54):
like featuring it or whatever, and most of
those people had no idea whatthat was, I'm sure.
Oh, yeah.
Without,
Naomi Liu (01:01):
Uh, but I think
the
Mike Rizzo (01:02):
comment back to me was like, do you feel seen?
And I was like, kind of Mm-hmm.
Michael Hartmann (01:06):
That's great.
Do you feel seen It's like atherapy session.
Yeah.
It was like, this is great.
That's funny.
The thing we talk about all the
Mike Rizzo (01:14):
time is like on a major news
Michael Hartmann (01:17):
outlet of some kind.
Yeah.
It's too bad.
That didn't come out before.
So our last guest was LorenaMorales and we were talking
about rev ops and sort of herjourney where she is.
So it would've like, it would'vebeen good to be able to tie
those two together.
Um, you know, because that waspart of the discussion was like,
how do.
get better together with opsteams, and I think she's also
(01:39):
got a unique perspective.
Um, so we talk, I talked to herin late 2021, which is like, I
couldn't believe it when Irealized that.
And it, and it was January of 23when we talked to her again and
she was talking about how thingshave changed and her perceptions
have changed over that course oftime.
So, um, So,
Mike Rizzo (02:00):
yeah.
Yep.
Oh, well, timing, There's justbeen so much happening.
Like that's what we were riffingon, right?
We were all just trying to like,for a moment, coming up to this
episode for all the listenerslike I think to, to Hartmann's
point, like we all jumped onthis zoom that we're looking at
(02:21):
each other on right now, and weall went, oh,
Naomi Liu (02:26):
So if you're all feeling like
Mike Rizzo (02:28):
that after this January, like yeah, we're all
feeling the same way right now.
Yeah, it's been rough, It has
Michael Hartmann (02:36):
been.
Mike Rizzo (02:37):
It's like, uh, it's, it's a whirlwind of a time
that's for sure.
Michael Hartmann (02:41):
Yeah, I don't know.
Uh, Naomi, it doesn't, youdidn't really say, but is it
felt like, like a differentJanuary than usual?
Yeah,
Naomi Liu (02:48):
definitely.
It's, it, there was, there's no,there was no like slow lead up
and, you know, walk into the newyear.
It was just like, bam right
Michael Hartmann (02:58):
from the start.
I'm usually pretty good aboutbeing able to sort of block,
block off in my mind, you know,over the weekends and even this,
like this January, I just havenot been able to.
Like, it just always felt like,oh, I gotta go do some, make
some progress on something orthe week's gonna be awful.
Mm-hmm.
Mike Rizzo (03:14):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Isn't that tough?
Like, and, and like, I know fora fact, you know, all of us here
are not in this.
Like, we don't necessarilysubscribe to hustle culture.
Like, please take your time off.
Oh yeah.
Please, please, please do that.
But like, I feel you.
It's definitely been, uh, everyweekend or something is like in
(03:39):
my brain space.
And I think it was just twonights ago sitting there and
like my, my eyes trailed off fora second.
Naomi Liu (03:47):
My wife was like, stop it.
Michael Hartmann (03:51):
So you could tell I was like going into
thinking
Naomi Liu (03:53):
about some problem we needed to
Mike Rizzo (03:55):
solve for, right?
Uh, I was like, oh boy, I shouldprobably.
Adult beverage or something andtake a break.
Michael Hartmann (04:02):
Alright.
I thought very seriously aboutdoing that when we were coming
onto here, but it would've beeneven early for happy hour for
me.
Yeah.
So, yeah,
Naomi Liu (04:11):
it's two
Mike Rizzo (04:11):
o'clock Pacific, so I feel like I would've been like
scolded,
Naomi Liu (04:15):
Yeah.
At least you're not doing dryJanuary.
And then it's all compounded ontop of each other.
Mm-hmm.
Mike Rizzo (04:21):
Yeah.
It's true.
It's true.
Even worse,
Michael Hartmann (04:25):
it, it feels like Jan, like especially this
January would've been reallytough to do dry January.
Naomi Liu (04:31):
Just like the struggle is
Mike Rizzo (04:33):
real.
Yeah.
I, I don't know.
There's just like the lands,like the macro environment is
wild.
Yes.
Like we, I, our tech sector is,the dogs are into it.
They're barking.
(04:53):
Um, but you know, like, I think,I think.
I'm still optimistic about likethe way that the year will shape
up, um, despite its chaos andits really rocky start, but like
I do have signals coming intothe community, uh, around like
(05:15):
hiring and sort of like trendsin that nature.
So, you know, I know there'sbeen a lot happening in the
world of layoffs.
Yep.
I think, I think the year willshape up.
Nice.
Michael Hartmann (05:29):
you know?
Yeah, I, I, I'm feeling pretty,I mean, I am too.
Like, it's been a rough, uh,January for a number of reasons,
but, you know, personalstandpoint, feeling pretty,
pretty good about where thingsare going into 23.
And I, I was fortunate I had acall with somebody today and
sort of a networking thing, andit was somebody who had just
(05:49):
recently lost a job.
Today got a, a verbal offer.
So I was really excited.
It had been only a few weeks, sohopefully that's a, a, a sign or
a trend that we will see that,you know, these things won't
last too long and cuz there'sstill, there are still people
hiring just maybe not in thesectors that people, you know,
think of when they first thinkof
Mike Rizzo (06:10):
it.
Yeah.
And I think, um, for all of thiscommunity, the marketing and rev
op space, like you're, you'restill really sought.
Like a lot of organizations aregonna realize quite quickly that
nobody knows what the heck isgoing on in the systems.
Right?
And, um, I had three or fourpeople reach out to me directly
(06:34):
as they were, you know, goingthrough their, uh, career
transition of some kind, right?
A layoff, um, at that.
And, uh, many of those folks areactually getting offers now for
sometimes for really.
Stronger role,
Michael Hartmann (06:48):
like in a, uh, that was the case of what I
heard today.
So, yeah.
Mike Rizzo (06:52):
So, you know, for those of you that are impacted
in that, in that scenario as Ihave been, um, you know, just
keep your head up.
It's super.
It's super rough and dauntingand, uh, bit eye-opening when
that happens.
But they're things that none ofus can control, but like this
community is really, reallygreat at supporting everybody.
(07:13):
I know that.
And if I can help or Naomi orHartmann, I know we're all here
for that.
Absolutely.
But we're working actively onthat program right now, so we're
building on an entire sort ofecosystem for what we call
matchmaking, which I'm reallyexcited about.
Hmm.
So I think by the timeorganizations finally realize
(07:35):
how much pain they're in from
Michael Hartmann (07:38):
not being able to run marketing in.
So you're saying this is like,this is like, this is like
Bumble for marketing ops.
Is that Yeah.
Kinda No, we're, um,
Mike Rizzo (07:49):
if I, if I could summarize it a little, it's
like, you know, this, thiscommunity, like this profess.
First of all is, uh, a bit of aunicorn, right?
Like it's, it's hard to findpeople that know this.
We've all tried to hire for it.
Uh, and sometimes you, you getstuck in what you don't know,
(08:13):
right?
Like, I don't know about youNaomi, but like how many times
have you had recruiters or, orhiring managers in your world
say like, oh, we, you know, weneed somebody to do all these
different things.
And you're like, wait, that's,That's not at all what I should
be doing in
Naomi Liu (08:30):
this function.
Mm-hmm.
well, that's like five differentpeople's jobs.
Yeah.
you just described like fivedifferent people.
Mike Rizzo (08:36):
Mm-hmm.
uh, And so the idea for us, youknow, we started with our job
description guides.
We've got those on the sitetoday.
People download those actively.
I've used those built right?
Yeah.
Yep.
They're built by our community.
We're pulling together ourcertification advisory board,
and we're actively talking aboutwhat does it look like to be a
certified professional in thisspace, agnostic of the tools you
(08:58):
use.
And then if we educate themarket on sort of the boundaries
of marketing operations, now howdo we create an environment for
the marketing ops professionalswho are open to those
opportunities or activelyseeking them to be discovered?
um, or discover thoseopportunities rather.
Um, and so if I can create thissort of space, a safe space for
(09:23):
you to be, uh, discovered foryour talents, that's sort of
what I'm looking for.
Uh, and what we're reallyleaning in on is like the idea
that you wanna obfuscate some ofthe inherent bias that comes in
with some of the recruitingprocess today.
And so I think that'll besomething that's a little bit of
extra special.
(09:44):
You know, you shouldn't knowreally much about, you know, the
individual before you firststart looking at, you know, what
are the qualities and the role,the actual job responsibilities,
first and foremost, and doessomebody already sort of fit
into that, you know?
category, so to speak, right?
(10:06):
Are they really a marketing opsprofessional or what have you.
And then from there are theyopened opportunities and that
kind of stuff.
So I'm excited.
That's great.
Humble.
Michael Hartmann (10:16):
No, but like match maybe match.
Naomi Liu (10:20):
Yes.
No match matchmaking.
Yeah.
Michael Hartmann (10:24):
So yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, I was just, what hit me,the other thing.
maybe this could be the themefor 23, cuz I feel like one of
the things that came up over andover in our recordings or
episodes in 2022 and justcontinues to be a theme, is the
importance of data and insights.
(10:44):
Mm-hmm.
and how marketing ops and revops folks.
Sort of uniquely positioned todo it.
I still believe there's a bit ofa gap in terms of the skills and
experience within the communityto be able to do that in a lot
of ways.
Um, but it feels like that's anarea where like there needs to
be, I think, you know, if you'retalking about certifications,
(11:05):
right?
I think that's an area thatprobably is one that, um, if, if
people were, you know,throughout the community were
honest, they probably would.
that's an area that I feel likeI could, I need to learn more
about, particularly if it comesto things like getting the
storytelling out of it.
Right?
So, uh, mm-hmm.
what do you, what do y'allthink?
Mike Rizzo (11:26):
Yeah, I, I, I tend to go a little too into the
weeds, like I keep trying touncover.
The like, is that really theright data?
Is that data really telling thetruth?
Uh, I, I definitely likequestioned, well, how did that
(11:46):
data even get there, So theability to like try to pull back
from that and then build anarrative around like, what's
the question that you're tryingto solve for?
What's the answer you're lookingfor?
And like, how do you find thedata to advise that?
uh, I think is super, super.
I mean, we're seeing that withSynchry right now, like not to
(12:08):
name drop a up and comingstartup, but like they're doing
a pretty good job of trying todrive home this message around
like, you know, ops and datapeople, there's a super heavy
overlap there.
Um mm-hmm and both can learnfrom each other very actively.
And there's a very strong chancethat some of those data folks
who maybe don't know the fulloperations side of things, cuz
(12:31):
we've talked about this, likethe three of us, right?
Or, and maybe with other gueststoo, like, Um, you know, when a
data person doesn't necessarilyknow the backstory of where that
data came in or how it works,then it's like hard for them to
do analysis.
They have to be informed aboutthat, right?
And so they inevitably like needto get those details, and I
(12:53):
think that's valuable, right?
So if you can start learningtheir craft a little bit, um,
and teach each other somethings, I, I think that could
definitely be a theme for 23 forsure.
Yeah,
Michael Hartmann (13:08):
I was, yeah, I was just, I was just getting
into, it made me remember SummerCamp 22.
Yeah.
And the, the session with that,um, Jessica Cow led like, it was
so good.
so good.
I thought, I thought I waspretty good.
I thought I was pretty good atthis stuff until, until then I
was humbled.
(13:28):
Yeah.
When
Mike Rizzo (13:28):
you like have to try to, so that for the listeners
who, who didn't make it to camp,and want to know about that
session.
First of all, it is available ondemand to anybody that's a pro
member of the community.
You can go check it out.
It's on the website under ourlearning tab.
Uh, but beyond that, the gist ofit is, how do you describe sort
(13:50):
of the outcome of an activitybased on data to a cmo?
And We happened to have a CMO inthe room and everybody had to
take a chance.
Naomi Liu (13:59):
like describing what it was that they were trying to
Mike Rizzo (14:02):
describe and, and the CMO had to say whether or
not that was actually a valuablesort of, Um, description or, or
she understood it, that kind ofthing.
It's really, really powerful.
But yeah, I think, yeah.
She's also, I, I know Jess isabout to do another session on
that, actually.
Um, probably in and around thetime that this episode airs, but
Naomi Liu (14:26):
Oh, great.
She'll be coming back to
Mike Rizzo (14:28):
Mops, ALZA, uh, and she'll probably be involved in
some way there.
So hopefully we'll be able tohave a similar.
Learning environment.
Michael Hartmann (14:35):
So what's the, we should talk a bit
Naomi Liu (14:36):
more.
Yeah, I was gonna say you shouldtalk a bit more about Mozo.
A nice little segue there.
I see what you did.
Michael Hartmann (14:41):
I see what you did there.
See, we're almost, we're kind oflike professionals now on this,
right?
Naomi Liu (14:47):
we're starting to figure out.
You cue yourself up.
Mike Yeah.
Mike Rizzo (14:49):
Well, I don't know.
Uh, yeah, MOAP.
Pza is, planning is underway.
You want to talk about a roughJanuary?
Uh, I've had a, I've had a go.
I traveled to Dallas to try tolook at venues.
Naomi Liu (15:03):
Woohoo.
San Diego
Mike Rizzo (15:05):
Yeah, Hartmann was really excited about that.
Heather, too.
Uh, she was like, sweet.
That'd be great.
Um, San Diego didn't pan out asI sort of made clear to some
folks that were asking and haveseen the landing page now.
Um, I did end up coming home onmy birthday.
Visiting a spot in Anaheim rightnext to Disneyland that I really
(15:27):
liked and they fought prettyhard for our business.
So it's looking more like it'sgonna be there.
But I will tell you that, uh,planning an event, uh, of any
size beyond 50 people is like awhole new ballgame.
And, and it is, it is rot withchallenges So we're trying to
(15:47):
work through all the
Michael Hartmann (15:47):
details, but it is not for the faint of
heart.
No.
Mike Rizzo (15:51):
No, not at all.
Um, and I would not be able todo it without some really
incredible, like, experts thatare actually helping to pull it
all together.
Um, that like this is their jam,right?
Like they love the staging andthe lighting and the, the tech
prep and all that other stufflike, yep.
No, not for me.
Um, but from a contentperspective, um, the.
(16:14):
Speaker submissions are stillopen.
Anybody who wants to potentiallyjoin us and speak at MOA
Palooza, it's looking like it'llprobably be the first week of
November.
Um, but please submit yourspeaker, uh, intent to speak or
your, your desire to speakrather.
Um, Naomi Cason and Jess willbe, uh, helping us select the
(16:37):
speakers.
It'll be community led so you'llbe able to learn from other
practitioner.
No pitch slapping allowed fromour vendors Um, and yeah, we're,
we're trying to pull togetherreally good learning
environment.
Um, on a scale of, you know, 300to 500, my target would be four
(16:57):
to 500 attendees.
Um, to be able to come togetherand talk shop about marketing
ops for about, you know, threedays.
It's amazing.
I'm
Naomi Liu (17:06):
excited.
It'll be magical cuz you
Michael Hartmann (17:08):
know.
Oh.
Please.
Naomi Liu (17:10):
Really Do you want me to do the Mickey Mouse voice?
Michael Hartmann (17:15):
Sure.
Why not?
Oh boy.
That's actually quite good,Mike.
I,
Naomi Liu (17:23):
uh, someone's gonna
Mike Rizzo (17:24):
try to make me do that on stage and I won't be
able to do it anyway.
Michael Hartmann (17:29):
Naomi Naomi's trying to figure out how to, how
to work her computer.
Naomi.
No, we're gonna
Naomi Liu (17:32):
overlay that now onto everything
Michael Hartmann (17:35):
I was like, are we recording?
Mike Rizzo (17:39):
We better be careful cuz they might come after me now
and be like, you can impersonate
Naomi Liu (17:43):
our primary.
But then you'll just have tosay, that's just how I normally
speak.
And then that's, you'll justhave to, I just
Mike Rizzo (17:48):
do that in interject
Naomi Liu (17:49):
randomly.
Right.
Exactly.
Michael Hartmann (17:53):
So I, now, I'm, now I'm actually curious,
like is that something that askill, like a skill that you've
honed for years or is this athing since you've had kids?
Mike Rizzo (18:01):
No, I, I've been doing that voice for about 10
years probably.
All right.
They have it folks.
I used to just do it as a jokewith my friends and, and then it
became like, it, it's, yeah, asan adult that can do a look
voice.
You, you can imagine the things,the types of
Naomi Liu (18:17):
scenarios you can be in that
Mike Rizzo (18:18):
can be very entertaining.
Michael Hartmann (18:20):
uh, yeah, for sure.
Mike Rizzo (18:25):
Uh, yeah.
So I'm excited.
Uh, MoSo.
PaLiu is well under.
um, and hopefully, you know,call for speakers, call for
attendees, call for sponsors.
Michael Hartmann (18:39):
we need your help.
We wanna make it happen.
Yeah.
Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe wecan crowdsource, uh, getting all
of us there.
Well, you'll be there, Mike.
Uh, Naomi, you're gonna bethere, right?
I, she's, yep.
Should be.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yeah.
Well, I, I, my, I'm still alittle up in the air, so maybe
(18:59):
you're not Okay.
Maybe I'm not.
All right.
So may maybe we do a liveepisode.
How about that?
Like,
Mike Rizzo (19:07):
Ooh.
I, I think that'd be super fun.
It's fun.
I was talking to Sydney andLauren.
um, yesterday day before.
Yeah.
And they were like, Hey, maybewe could do, uh, a live podcast
episode, not like OpsCast, butour show.
And I was like, yeah.
Go for it.
Yeah.
Nothing's stopping you.
(19:27):
I think their show's calledPretty Funny Business.
We're gonna have'em on the showsoon.
Michael Hartmann (19:30):
It's uh, Sydnee, Mulligan and Lauren.
Yeah, Lauren.
You know, I can't pronounce it.
Yeah, I don't say that lastname.
Mike Rizzo (19:38):
Yeah.
She's gonna text me later and belike, that was terrible.
Michael Hartmann (19:43):
and deserved.
Um, that's okay.
Um, let's doing great.
Well,
Mike Rizzo (19:46):
I think we should live
Michael Hartmann (19:48):
episode.
That'd be fun.
Maybe we do it during happy.
Naomi Liu (19:52):
I would, I think that's a great idea
Michael Hartmann (19:54):
actually.
Yeah.
So you have take, take questionsfrom the, take questions from
the audience.
Yeah.
Mike Rizzo (19:58):
Mm-hmm.
That would actually be really
Michael Hartmann (20:00):
fun.
And then if nobody asksquestions, we act like a
teacher, we're gonna call on'em.
We could do that.
Mike Rizzo (20:07):
I think we could.
I don't know.
So we'll see.
Um, there's a lot on the horizonthis year.
There's.
You know, if you thought MOAPalooza was gonna be the, the
only thing that I have to sharewith the community this year,
you thought wrong there's,there's a lot more that I'm
looking to bring, uh, bring tolight with the team that's,
(20:29):
that's working on it.
So, um, I'm excited.
Michael Hartmann (20:35):
It's great.
Um, what about, does that meanyou didn't say anything about
summer camp?
I know.
Naomi Liu (20:45):
So
Mike Rizzo (20:46):
the fun, if anybody listens to this and they're
thinking about mops of paloozaand they're thinking about camp,
uh, it is becoming more and moreclear that camp is not going to
be a thing this year,unfortunately.
Michael Hartmann (20:57):
Oh no.
Mike Rizzo (20:59):
Um, the way that hotels want to book rooms is not
conducive to supporting a smallevent.
On the front end of a largerevent, they would rather it be
on the back end.
And I'm gonna be real witheverybody.
Like I doubt anyone wants to goto a big event and then go into
a day and a half of deeplearning, deep discussion
(21:22):
content after that.
Yeah.
So, um,
Naomi Liu (21:26):
no, that sounds terrible actually.
It's sounds horrible.
That sounds horrible.
Yeah, that's
Mike Rizzo (21:32):
exactly.
Naomi Liu (21:33):
My feeling on it too.
I told every hotel,
Mike Rizzo (21:35):
I was like, it has to be before the big event.
And they were like, no.
And I was like,
Michael Hartmann (21:41):
oh, thanks for that.
So.
Well, I'm sure well, for those,those, those of us who've been
to one of the summer camps, Ithink we'll, we'll, we'll
support it when you wanna bringit back.
So
Mike Rizzo (21:53):
it'll come back next year for sure.
So the, the, the goal here is todo MOA in, in the fall this
coming year, right?
This year, right now.
Uh, then we would shift MOA intothe spring and we would do camp,
uh, in the summer.
And so we'd have two activationsspring and summer moving
forward.
Um, and that would be the waythat things sort of shake up
(22:15):
moving, you know, into thefuture.
Uh, if anybody did already lookat like a camp pass, the, your
camp pass is not actually lost.
Um, there's something elsespecial that we're gonna do for
anyone that decided to takeadvantage of that early.
Camp plus mops of Palooza Passthat's available on the site.
(22:35):
Um, so I would encourage you tosnag that if you, especially if
you can get l and d budget, um,because there will be a really
special networking activity thatwe pull together.
Uh, and you can imagine if we'rein and around the downtown
Disney space, uh, it may involvesome activities around there.
So, um, I would encourage you tothink about still grabbing one
(22:55):
of those because we would bringeveryone together for a special
sort of professional networkingactivat.
Awesome.
Yeah.
So damn, it's not
Naomi Liu (23:05):
lost.
Mike Rizzo (23:08):
and Hartmann,
Michael Hartmann (23:09):
you're gonna be there.
I'll be there.
Okay.
Yeah.
Naomi Liu (23:12):
What I want is for you to wear Mickey er Rizzo and
uh, do your Mickey voice.
You know, I might have somehandgun.
Really?
I get the Mickey gloves too, Ithink.
Yeah, exactly
Michael Hartmann (23:23):
right.
Oh my gosh.
Like I'm, now I've got thisvision of you with Mickey gloves
on.
Uh,
Mike Rizzo (23:33):
give it to Mickey.
Michael Hartmann (23:34):
I mean, Mikey, I mean yeah,
Naomi Liu (23:39):
Yeah.
Oh man.
Mike Rizzo (23:40):
Oh, I just set myself up for so
Michael Hartmann (23:42):
many jokes later.
Oh yeah.
It's just, it's all coming.
The rest of the year is messedup for
Naomi Liu (23:46):
me now.
Yeah,
Michael Hartmann (23:49):
that's all.
Any, any other sort of, uh,things that you guys have so far
this year?
Trends you're seeing?
Mike Rizzo (24:00):
I don't know.
Trends wise, I don't know.
I think the data piece is a goodone.
That
Michael Hartmann (24:07):
rev op stuff is interesting, although I
still, I still, still, I stillthink there's a lot of confusion
about what that means.
Mike Rizzo (24:16):
Yep.
Yeah, and that's what I wasgonna say too, like, great, that
that happens to be the thingthat's on the rise, but like,
I'm not confident speaking oflike being confident in the data
like not confident that the, uh,actual underlying function is
well defined and understood yet,and.
(24:37):
and hey, that's what we're allhere for.
Right?
Who better than all of theprofessionals out there to help
shape it
Michael Hartmann (24:44):
correctly?
Well, and I know there's anotherone that, um, another, I think
hopefully, for me at least, Ithink it's, uh, I'm, I'm really
curious to see if it becomesmore of a trend is the idea of a
marketing chief of staff.
Mike Rizzo (25:00):
I, I, I'm very excited about that.
We actually, I was sitting with,I went to the sendo, so event.
Um, a couple weeks ago and therewas like, Sanger was there and
Melissa McCreedy and, um,Stephanie from, from Valenti.
Valenti.
Mm-hmm.
Um, we were all sitting aroundtalking shop and, and that was
(25:21):
one of the things we talkedabout was like this possibility
of the, um, chief of staff typeof role for marketing ops, but
also that there needs to be sortof a shake up at the coo.
like the COO function hasn'treally been redefined or like
(25:42):
rejiggered to be understoodsince the sort of evolution of
tech, uh, started hitting right?
Like the traditional COO whenyou go sort of dig into it or,
or what have you, was certainlyaround ever since.
Who knows long how long, right.
Industrial era for sure.
But when you start to bring intech, should the COO role have a
(26:04):
shake?
Could it potentially be moretech oriented and understanding
of the landscape of thego-to-market function and the
requirements that are needed tobe able to do that?
I don't know.
So I think it was a really goodquestion.
So it was, we were teeteringback and forth between like this
idea of chief of staff or somesort of C level and the group
(26:25):
there was like, maybe it's coo Iwas like,
Michael Hartmann (26:29):
yeah.
Interesting.
Um, what
Mike Rizzo (26:32):
do you think Naomi?
Coo.
Naomi Liu (26:34):
I mean, I, I, I would love that.
That, I think that's amazing,right?
Mike Rizzo (26:39):
You could be a coo.
Naomi Liu (26:41):
Totally.
I think so.
I'd like to think so.
Michael Hartmann (26:43):
You guys think so?
Totally.
I think so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I
Mike Rizzo (26:46):
mean, think about like contract negotiation
Naomi Liu (26:49):
technology.
Oh my gosh,
Mike Rizzo (26:52):
yes.
Go to market function likemm-hmm.
people, man, like all of it,like finance.
It.
Michael Hartmann (27:00):
Now you're speaking my language.
Naomi Liu (27:02):
Yeah, you're totally speaking my language.
I'm picking up what you'reputting down.
Mike Rizzo (27:05):
You could totally be I think it's a thing.
Michael Hartmann (27:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, well, cool.
Um, any other final thoughts?
And this is, this has been alittle bit of a catchall
episode, so a, I think, I think,I think we are all like looking
forward to like, hopefullyFebruary won't be quite like
January.
Yeah,
Naomi Liu (27:26):
but it's such a short month.
true.
Like, ah, Yeah.
It's all right.
Mike Rizzo (27:35):
We'll get through it.
It'll be good.
No, it was good to catch upthough, and think a little bit
about what's going on in thelandscape.
Yeah.
Hey, call for speakers or notspeakers.
Call for guests on the show.
Yeah.
Podcast
Naomi Liu (27:45):
guests.
Yeah.
Michael Hartmann (27:48):
Definitely reach out to us.
Come chat
Naomi Liu (27:49):
with
Michael Hartmann (27:49):
us.
Mike Rizzo (27:50):
Yeah,
Michael Hartmann (27:51):
we definitely want to chat with you.
Otherwise you just, uh, have tolisten to just us
Naomi Liu (27:57):
or you'll have to be
Mike Rizzo (27:58):
subject to an entire episode of Mickey Voice.
Okay.
Naomi Liu (28:02):
Definitely people come on the show for sure.
Okay.
All right.
We should wrap.
Michael Hartmann (28:12):
You want, you're gonna do a wrap?
Is that what you said?
No.
In Mickey voice?
Mike Rizzo (28:16):
No.
Oh my gosh.
Good.
No.
Okay.
Gracious.
No,
Michael Hartmann (28:21):
I'm not gonna do rap either.
I could.
I could lip sync a wrap maybe,but I'm not gonna do a wrap.
that's it.
They did a rap at the
Naomi Liu (28:29):
Sendo event.
Some people went upstage.
I think Sanger wrote a rap
Mike Rizzo (28:33):
or something.
It was great.
I can only imagine you had to bethere.
Michael Hartmann (28:39):
Were there any videos?
I
Mike Rizzo (28:40):
think someone got a video.
Yeah, I didn't
Michael Hartmann (28:44):
So did I.
Have I ever told you the storyabout being in a flash mob?
Sorry, this is totally, it is.
It is marketing ops relatedbecause it was at, it was at an
equa user conference.
No pre preor.
It was right before the Oracleacquisition actually.
Yeah, there was, so the, andthe, the reason I know it's that
is because the salesperson thatwe, we bought from tried, like,
(29:08):
she called me to get me to go,Hey, will you do this flash mob
thing we're gonna do?
One day?
I was like, ah, fine, I'll doit.
Really no interested in it.
It was dancing.
So that's the other thing.
And then she didn't show up.
I was like, it turns out shewas, she had been selling to
Oracle, right.
Selling the product.
And that turned around toOracle, wanting to buy Equa.
(29:30):
Mm.
Um, and so she wasn't there, butYep.
It was actually a lot of fun.
Totally.
Would do it again.
So we need, maybe we need to doa flash mob at, oh, see, I just
gave it up.
Can't do it now.
I mean, but
Naomi Liu (29:41):
it's, it's just an idea at the,
Mike Rizzo (29:43):
so maybe someone will organize it secretly and we
will have no idea.
Maybe it'll be you.
Hartmann.
No,
Michael Hartmann (29:53):
won't be me.
why?
Mike Rizzo (29:56):
Why was the flash mobs dancing so bad?
Oh, Hartmann organized.
Yeah.
Michael Hartmann (30:00):
I, I, I was a choreographer.
I'm just kidding.
No, it's totally true.
Naomi Liu (30:08):
The whole thing is just jazz hands, jazz, hands.
Yeah.
Michael Hartmann (30:15):
So there you go.
I could do that.
I could do jazz hands or, uh,you know, the, the, uh, parade
wave Oh my
Naomi Liu (30:23):
gosh.
Mike Rizzo (30:24):
I was like, what's he gonna say?
Oh, a parade wave.
Okay.
Michael Hartmann (30:27):
Yeah.
No, it's, it is, it's pg.
Maybe even G.
Maybe G.
All right.
So in there I've just, uh, mythings you didn't know about my
Michael, um, icebreaker is nowgone.
I'm gonna have to come up withsomething.
Yeah.
Mike Rizzo (30:42):
Uh, apparently there's a bunch of like little
hidden secrets in this one.
I think the episode will belike, Mickey joined to the show
and Hartmann tells us about hisdancing skills.
Tune in Yeah.
And Naomi's like, why am I onthis show
Naomi Liu (30:59):
with this?
Although there's gonna be
Mike Rizzo (31:03):
something.
She's gonna come out and sharesomething and we're gonna, oh my
gosh, gauze.
Michael Hartmann (31:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, she's already, she what,what you, you've, you've given
some away some secrets, like howto actually get a meeting with
you.
I know that so.
Oh yeah.
Naomi Liu (31:17):
So I can give it all away, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Michael Hartmann (31:21):
So.
Alright.
Well I think we are all readyfor the, and so for our
listeners and audience, it's aFriday afternoon, so I think we
are all about done.
Yeah.
Mike Rizzo (31:32):
I'm done.
I actually have like two morecalls.
I have to go get on one,starting in three minutes.
But you know,
Michael Hartmann (31:38):
All good.
All good.
All right.
Thanks everyone for listeningand, uh, continue to support us.
As we mentioned earlier, wealways are interested in hearing
about new guests or, uh, orideas for guests.
Or if you wanna be a guest orreach out to us, we'd be happy
to talk.
Until next time, we will.
Uh, we'll talk to you later.
Bye.
Bye everybody.
(31:58):
Bye Ron.
Hello everyone.
Welcome to another episode ofOpsCast, brought to you by
Marketingops.com, powered by theMO Pros.
I am your host, MichaelHartmann.
Join today with my.
Two compadres.
Naomi Liu, Mike Rizzo in.
I think this is our first one torecord.
Just the three of us in 23.
I think so.
Yeah, I think so.
I think so.
Do we, do we have a, I know lastyear was the year of the Mopro.
(00:24):
Is it still the year of theMopro?
It feels like it should be
Naomi Liu (00:27):
the year of the No.
Pro The No
Michael Hartmann (00:30):
Pro.
Mike Rizzo (00:31):
Well, LinkedIn categorized this year as the,
you know, The head of Rev Ops,right?
Mm-hmm.
they're like fastest growingrole.
It's like, good
Michael Hartmann (00:39):
for you.
That's really interesting.
Yeah.
Maybe we'll get into that alittle bit
Mike Rizzo (00:44):
here.
I, I've really felt likevalidated though, like I to, I
can't remember who posted it,uh, first when it was on, like
Good Morning America or some,some news channel that was
Michael Hartmann (00:54):
like featuring it or whatever, and most of
those people had no idea whatthat was, I'm sure.
Oh, yeah.
Without,
Naomi Liu (01:01):
Uh, but I think
the
Mike Rizzo (01:02):
comment back to me was like, do you feel seen?
And I was like, kind of Mm-hmm.
Michael Hartmann (01:06):
That's great.
Do you feel seen It's like atherapy session.
Yeah.
It was like, this is great.
That's funny.
The thing we talk about all the
Mike Rizzo (01:14):
time is like on a major news
Michael Hartmann (01:17):
outlet of some kind.
Yeah.
It's too bad.
That didn't come out before.
So our last guest was LorenaMorales and we were talking
about rev ops and sort of herjourney where she is.
So it would've like, it would'vebeen good to be able to tie
those two together.
Um, you know, because that waspart of the discussion was like,
how do.
get better together with opsteams, and I think she's also
(01:39):
got a unique perspective.
Um, so we talk, I talked to herin late 2021, which is like, I
couldn't believe it when Irealized that.
And it, and it was January of 23when we talked to her again and
she was talking about how thingshave changed and her perceptions
have changed over that course oftime.
So, um, So,
Mike Rizzo (02:00):
yeah.
Yep.
Oh, well, timing, There's justbeen so much happening.
Like that's what we were riffingon, right?
We were all just trying to like,for a moment, coming up to this
episode for all the listenerslike I think to, to Hartmann's
point, like we all jumped onthis zoom that we're looking at
(02:21):
each other on right now, and weall went, oh,
Naomi Liu (02:26):
So if you're all feeling like
Mike Rizzo (02:28):
that after this January, like yeah, we're all
feeling the same way right now.
Yeah, it's been rough, It has
Michael Hartmann (02:36):
been.
Mike Rizzo (02:37):
It's like, uh, it's, it's a whirlwind of a time
that's for sure.
Michael Hartmann (02:41):
Yeah, I don't know.
Uh, Naomi, it doesn't, youdidn't really say, but is it
felt like, like a differentJanuary than usual?
Yeah,
Naomi Liu (02:48):
definitely.
It's, it, there was, there's no,there was no like slow lead up
and, you know, walk into the newyear.
It was just like, bam right
Michael Hartmann (02:58):
from the start.
I'm usually pretty good aboutbeing able to sort of block,
block off in my mind, you know,over the weekends and even this,
like this January, I just havenot been able to.
Like, it just always felt like,oh, I gotta go do some, make
some progress on something orthe week's gonna be awful.
Mm-hmm.
Mike Rizzo (03:14):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Isn't that tough?
Like, and, and like, I know fora fact, you know, all of us here
are not in this.
Like, we don't necessarilysubscribe to hustle culture.
Like, please take your time off.
Oh yeah.
Please, please, please do that.
But like, I feel you.
It's definitely been, uh, everyweekend or something is like in
(03:39):
my brain space.
And I think it was just twonights ago sitting there and
like my, my eyes trailed off fora second.
Naomi Liu (03:47):
My wife was like, stop it.
Michael Hartmann (03:51):
So you could tell I was like going into
thinking
Naomi Liu (03:53):
about some problem we needed to
Mike Rizzo (03:55):
solve for, right?
Uh, I was like, oh boy, I shouldprobably.
Adult beverage or something andtake a break.
Michael Hartmann (04:02):
Alright.
I thought very seriously aboutdoing that when we were coming
onto here, but it would've beeneven early for happy hour for
me.
Yeah.
So, yeah,
Naomi Liu (04:11):
it's two
Mike Rizzo (04:11):
o'clock Pacific, so I feel like I would've been like
scolded,
Naomi Liu (04:15):
Yeah.
At least you're not doing dryJanuary.
And then it's all compounded ontop of each other.
Mm-hmm.
Mike Rizzo (04:21):
Yeah.
It's true.
It's true.
Even worse,
Michael Hartmann (04:25):
it, it feels like Jan, like especially this
January would've been reallytough to do dry January.
Naomi Liu (04:31):
Just like the struggle is
Mike Rizzo (04:33):
real.
Yeah.
I, I don't know.
There's just like the lands,like the macro environment is
wild.
Yes.
Like we, I, our tech sector is,the dogs are into it.
They're barking.
(04:53):
Um, but you know, like, I think,I think.
I'm still optimistic about likethe way that the year will shape
up, um, despite its chaos andits really rocky start, but like
I do have signals coming intothe community, uh, around like
(05:15):
hiring and sort of like trendsin that nature.
So, you know, I know there'sbeen a lot happening in the
world of layoffs.
Yep.
I think, I think the year willshape up.
Nice.
Michael Hartmann (05:29):
you know?
Yeah, I, I, I'm feeling pretty,I mean, I am too.
Like, it's been a rough, uh,January for a number of reasons,
but, you know, personalstandpoint, feeling pretty,
pretty good about where thingsare going into 23.
And I, I was fortunate I had acall with somebody today and
sort of a networking thing, andit was somebody who had just
(05:49):
recently lost a job.
Today got a, a verbal offer.
So I was really excited.
It had been only a few weeks, sohopefully that's a, a, a sign or
a trend that we will see that,you know, these things won't
last too long and cuz there'sstill, there are still people
hiring just maybe not in thesectors that people, you know,
think of when they first thinkof
Mike Rizzo (06:10):
it.
Yeah.
And I think, um, for all of thiscommunity, the marketing and rev
op space, like you're, you'restill really sought.
Like a lot of organizations aregonna realize quite quickly that
nobody knows what the heck isgoing on in the systems.
Right?
And, um, I had three or fourpeople reach out to me directly
(06:34):
as they were, you know, goingthrough their, uh, career
transition of some kind, right?
A layoff, um, at that.
And, uh, many of those folks areactually getting offers now for
sometimes for really.
Stronger role,
Michael Hartmann (06:48):
like in a, uh, that was the case of what I
heard today.
So, yeah.
Mike Rizzo (06:52):
So, you know, for those of you that are impacted
in that, in that scenario as Ihave been, um, you know, just
keep your head up.
It's super.
It's super rough and dauntingand, uh, bit eye-opening when
that happens.
But they're things that none ofus can control, but like this
community is really, reallygreat at supporting everybody.
(07:13):
I know that.
And if I can help or Naomi orHartmann, I know we're all here
for that.
Absolutely.
But we're working actively onthat program right now, so we're
building on an entire sort ofecosystem for what we call
matchmaking, which I'm reallyexcited about.
Hmm.
So I think by the timeorganizations finally realize
(07:35):
how much pain they're in from
Michael Hartmann (07:38):
not being able to run marketing in.
So you're saying this is like,this is like, this is like
Bumble for marketing ops.
Is that Yeah.
Kinda No, we're, um,
Mike Rizzo (07:49):
if I, if I could summarize it a little, it's
like, you know, this, thiscommunity, like this profess.
First of all is, uh, a bit of aunicorn, right?
Like it's, it's hard to findpeople that know this.
We've all tried to hire for it.
Uh, and sometimes you, you getstuck in what you don't know,
(08:13):
right?
Like, I don't know about youNaomi, but like how many times
have you had recruiters or, orhiring managers in your world
say like, oh, we, you know, weneed somebody to do all these
different things.
And you're like, wait, that's,That's not at all what I should
be doing in
Naomi Liu (08:30):
this function.
Mm-hmm.
well, that's like five differentpeople's jobs.
Yeah.
you just described like fivedifferent people.
Mike Rizzo (08:36):
Mm-hmm.
uh, And so the idea for us, youknow, we started with our job
description guides.
We've got those on the sitetoday.
People download those actively.
I've used those built right?
Yeah.
Yep.
They're built by our community.
We're pulling together ourcertification advisory board,
and we're actively talking aboutwhat does it look like to be a
certified professional in thisspace, agnostic of the tools you
(08:58):
use.
And then if we educate themarket on sort of the boundaries
of marketing operations, now howdo we create an environment for
the marketing ops professionalswho are open to those
opportunities or activelyseeking them to be discovered?
um, or discover thoseopportunities rather.
Um, and so if I can create thissort of space, a safe space for
(09:23):
you to be, uh, discovered foryour talents, that's sort of
what I'm looking for.
Uh, and what we're reallyleaning in on is like the idea
that you wanna obfuscate some ofthe inherent bias that comes in
with some of the recruitingprocess today.
And so I think that'll besomething that's a little bit of
extra special.
(09:44):
You know, you shouldn't knowreally much about, you know, the
individual before you firststart looking at, you know, what
are the qualities and the role,the actual job responsibilities,
first and foremost, and doessomebody already sort of fit
into that, you know?
category, so to speak, right?
(10:06):
Are they really a marketing opsprofessional or what have you.
And then from there are theyopened opportunities and that
kind of stuff.
So I'm excited.
That's great.
Humble.
Michael Hartmann (10:16):
No, but like match maybe match.
Naomi Liu (10:20):
Yes.
No match matchmaking.
Yeah.
Michael Hartmann (10:24):
So yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, I was just, what hit me,the other thing.
maybe this could be the themefor 23, cuz I feel like one of
the things that came up over andover in our recordings or
episodes in 2022 and justcontinues to be a theme, is the
importance of data and insights.
(10:44):
Mm-hmm.
and how marketing ops and revops folks.
Sort of uniquely positioned todo it.
I still believe there's a bit ofa gap in terms of the skills and
experience within the communityto be able to do that in a lot
of ways.
Um, but it feels like that's anarea where like there needs to
be, I think, you know, if you'retalking about certifications,
(11:05):
right?
I think that's an area thatprobably is one that, um, if, if
people were, you know,throughout the community were
honest, they probably would.
that's an area that I feel likeI could, I need to learn more
about, particularly if it comesto things like getting the
storytelling out of it.
Right?
So, uh, mm-hmm.
what do you, what do y'allthink?
Mike Rizzo (11:26):
Yeah, I, I, I tend to go a little too into the
weeds, like I keep trying touncover.
The like, is that really theright data?
Is that data really telling thetruth?
Uh, I, I definitely likequestioned, well, how did that
(11:46):
data even get there, So theability to like try to pull back
from that and then build anarrative around like, what's
the question that you're tryingto solve for?
What's the answer you're lookingfor?
And like, how do you find thedata to advise that?
uh, I think is super, super.
I mean, we're seeing that withSynchry right now, like not to
(12:08):
name drop a up and comingstartup, but like they're doing
a pretty good job of trying todrive home this message around
like, you know, ops and datapeople, there's a super heavy
overlap there.
Um mm-hmm and both can learnfrom each other very actively.
And there's a very strong chancethat some of those data folks
who maybe don't know the fulloperations side of things, cuz
(12:31):
we've talked about this, likethe three of us, right?
Or, and maybe with other gueststoo, like, Um, you know, when a
data person doesn't necessarilyknow the backstory of where that
data came in or how it works,then it's like hard for them to
do analysis.
They have to be informed aboutthat, right?
And so they inevitably like needto get those details, and I
(12:53):
think that's valuable, right?
So if you can start learningtheir craft a little bit, um,
and teach each other somethings, I, I think that could
definitely be a theme for 23 forsure.
Yeah,
Michael Hartmann (13:08):
I was, yeah, I was just, I was just getting
into, it made me remember SummerCamp 22.
Yeah.
And the, the session with that,um, Jessica Cow led like, it was
so good.
so good.
I thought, I thought I waspretty good.
I thought I was pretty good atthis stuff until, until then I
was humbled.
(13:28):
Yeah.
When
Mike Rizzo (13:28):
you like have to try to, so that for the listeners
who, who didn't make it to camp,and want to know about that
session.
First of all, it is available ondemand to anybody that's a pro
member of the community.
You can go check it out.
It's on the website under ourlearning tab.
Uh, but beyond that, the gist ofit is, how do you describe sort
(13:50):
of the outcome of an activitybased on data to a cmo?
And We happened to have a CMO inthe room and everybody had to
take a chance.
Naomi Liu (13:59):
like describing what it was that they were trying to
Mike Rizzo (14:02):
describe and, and the CMO had to say whether or
not that was actually a valuablesort of, Um, description or, or
she understood it, that kind ofthing.
It's really, really powerful.
But yeah, I think, yeah.
She's also, I, I know Jess isabout to do another session on
that, actually.
Um, probably in and around thetime that this episode airs, but
Naomi Liu (14:26):
Oh, great.
She'll be coming back to
Mike Rizzo (14:28):
Mops, ALZA, uh, and she'll probably be involved in
some way there.
So hopefully we'll be able tohave a similar.
Learning environment.
Michael Hartmann (14:35):
So what's the, we should talk a bit
Naomi Liu (14:36):
more.
Yeah, I was gonna say you shouldtalk a bit more about Mozo.
A nice little segue there.
I see what you did.
Michael Hartmann (14:41):
I see what you did there.
See, we're almost, we're kind oflike professionals now on this,
right?
Naomi Liu (14:47):
we're starting to figure out.
You cue yourself up.
Mike Yeah.
Mike Rizzo (14:49):
Well, I don't know.
Uh, yeah, MOAP.
Pza is, planning is underway.
You want to talk about a roughJanuary?
Uh, I've had a, I've had a go.
I traveled to Dallas to try tolook at venues.
Naomi Liu (15:03):
Woohoo.
San Diego
Mike Rizzo (15:05):
Yeah, Hartmann was really excited about that.
Heather, too.
Uh, she was like, sweet.
That'd be great.
Um, San Diego didn't pan out asI sort of made clear to some
folks that were asking and haveseen the landing page now.
Um, I did end up coming home onmy birthday.
Visiting a spot in Anaheim rightnext to Disneyland that I really
(15:27):
liked and they fought prettyhard for our business.
So it's looking more like it'sgonna be there.
But I will tell you that, uh,planning an event, uh, of any
size beyond 50 people is like awhole new ballgame.
And, and it is, it is rot withchallenges So we're trying to
(15:47):
work through all the
Michael Hartmann (15:47):
details, but it is not for the faint of
heart.
No.
Mike Rizzo (15:51):
No, not at all.
Um, and I would not be able todo it without some really
incredible, like, experts thatare actually helping to pull it
all together.
Um, that like this is their jam,right?
Like they love the staging andthe lighting and the, the tech
prep and all that other stufflike, yep.
No, not for me.
Um, but from a contentperspective, um, the.
(16:14):
Speaker submissions are stillopen.
Anybody who wants to potentiallyjoin us and speak at MOA
Palooza, it's looking like it'llprobably be the first week of
November.
Um, but please submit yourspeaker, uh, intent to speak or
your, your desire to speakrather.
Um, Naomi Cason and Jess willbe, uh, helping us select the
(16:37):
speakers.
It'll be community led so you'llbe able to learn from other
practitioner.
No pitch slapping allowed fromour vendors Um, and yeah, we're,
we're trying to pull togetherreally good learning
environment.
Um, on a scale of, you know, 300to 500, my target would be four
(16:57):
to 500 attendees.
Um, to be able to come togetherand talk shop about marketing
ops for about, you know, threedays.
It's amazing.
I'm
Naomi Liu (17:06):
excited.
It'll be magical cuz you
Michael Hartmann (17:08):
know.
Oh.
Please.
Naomi Liu (17:10):
Really Do you want me to do the Mickey Mouse voice?
Michael Hartmann (17:15):
Sure.
Why not?
Oh boy.
That's actually quite good,Mike.
I,
Naomi Liu (17:23):
uh, someone's gonna
Mike Rizzo (17:24):
try to make me do that on stage and I won't be
able to do it anyway.
Michael Hartmann (17:29):
Naomi Naomi's trying to figure out how to, how
to work her computer.
Naomi.
No, we're gonna
Naomi Liu (17:32):
overlay that now onto everything
Michael Hartmann (17:35):
I was like, are we recording?
Mike Rizzo (17:39):
We better be careful cuz they might come after me now
and be like, you can impersonate
Naomi Liu (17:43):
our primary.
But then you'll just have tosay, that's just how I normally
speak.
And then that's, you'll justhave to, I just
Mike Rizzo (17:48):
do that in interject
Naomi Liu (17:49):
randomly.
Right.
Exactly.
Michael Hartmann (17:53):
So I, now, I'm, now I'm actually curious,
like is that something that askill, like a skill that you've
honed for years or is this athing since you've had kids?
Mike Rizzo (18:01):
No, I, I've been doing that voice for about 10
years probably.
All right.
They have it folks.
I used to just do it as a jokewith my friends and, and then it
became like, it, it's, yeah, asan adult that can do a look
voice.
You, you can imagine the things,the types of
Naomi Liu (18:17):
scenarios you can be in that
Mike Rizzo (18:18):
can be very entertaining.
Michael Hartmann (18:20):
uh, yeah, for sure.
Mike Rizzo (18:25):
Uh, yeah.
So I'm excited.
Uh, MoSo.
PaLiu is well under.
um, and hopefully, you know,call for speakers, call for
attendees, call for sponsors.
Michael Hartmann (18:39):
we need your help.
We wanna make it happen.
Yeah.
Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe wecan crowdsource, uh, getting all
of us there.
Well, you'll be there, Mike.
Uh, Naomi, you're gonna bethere, right?
I, she's, yep.
Should be.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yeah.
Well, I, I, my, I'm still alittle up in the air, so maybe
(18:59):
you're not Okay.
Maybe I'm not.
All right.
So may maybe we do a liveepisode.
How about that?
Like,
Mike Rizzo (19:07):
Ooh.
I, I think that'd be super fun.
It's fun.
I was talking to Sydney andLauren.
um, yesterday day before.
Yeah.
And they were like, Hey, maybewe could do, uh, a live podcast
episode, not like OpsCast, butour show.
And I was like, yeah.
Go for it.
Yeah.
Nothing's stopping you.
(19:27):
I think their show's calledPretty Funny Business.
We're gonna have'em on the showsoon.
Michael Hartmann (19:30):
It's uh, Sydnee, Mulligan and Lauren.
Yeah, Lauren.
You know, I can't pronounce it.
Yeah, I don't say that lastname.
Mike Rizzo (19:38):
Yeah.
She's gonna text me later and belike, that was terrible.
Michael Hartmann (19:43):
and deserved.
Um, that's okay.
Um, let's doing great.
Well,
Mike Rizzo (19:46):
I think we should live
Michael Hartmann (19:48):
episode.
That'd be fun.
Maybe we do it during happy.
Naomi Liu (19:52):
I would, I think that's a great idea
Michael Hartmann (19:54):
actually.
Yeah.
So you have take, take questionsfrom the, take questions from
the audience.
Yeah.
Mike Rizzo (19:58):
Mm-hmm.
That would actually be really
Michael Hartmann (20:00):
fun.
And then if nobody asksquestions, we act like a
teacher, we're gonna call on'em.
We could do that.
Mike Rizzo (20:07):
I think we could.
I don't know.
So we'll see.
Um, there's a lot on the horizonthis year.
There's.
You know, if you thought MOAPalooza was gonna be the, the
only thing that I have to sharewith the community this year,
you thought wrong there's,there's a lot more that I'm
looking to bring, uh, bring tolight with the team that's,
(20:29):
that's working on it.
So, um, I'm excited.
Michael Hartmann (20:35):
It's great.
Um, what about, does that meanyou didn't say anything about
summer camp?
I know.
Naomi Liu (20:45):
So
Mike Rizzo (20:46):
the fun, if anybody listens to this and they're
thinking about mops of paloozaand they're thinking about camp,
uh, it is becoming more and moreclear that camp is not going to
be a thing this year,unfortunately.
Michael Hartmann (20:57):
Oh no.
Mike Rizzo (20:59):
Um, the way that hotels want to book rooms is not
conducive to supporting a smallevent.
On the front end of a largerevent, they would rather it be
on the back end.
And I'm gonna be real witheverybody.
Like I doubt anyone wants to goto a big event and then go into
a day and a half of deeplearning, deep discussion
(21:22):
content after that.
Yeah.
So, um,
Naomi Liu (21:26):
no, that sounds terrible actually.
It's sounds horrible.
That sounds horrible.
Yeah, that's
Mike Rizzo (21:32):
exactly.
Naomi Liu (21:33):
My feeling on it too.
I told every hotel,
Mike Rizzo (21:35):
I was like, it has to be before the big event.
And they were like, no.
And I was like,
Michael Hartmann (21:41):
oh, thanks for that.
So.
Well, I'm sure well, for those,those, those of us who've been
to one of the summer camps, Ithink we'll, we'll, we'll
support it when you wanna bringit back.
So
Mike Rizzo (21:53):
it'll come back next year for sure.
So the, the, the goal here is todo MOA in, in the fall this
coming year, right?
This year, right now.
Uh, then we would shift MOA intothe spring and we would do camp,
uh, in the summer.
And so we'd have two activationsspring and summer moving
forward.
Um, and that would be the waythat things sort of shake up
(22:15):
moving, you know, into thefuture.
Uh, if anybody did already lookat like a camp pass, the, your
camp pass is not actually lost.
Um, there's something elsespecial that we're gonna do for
anyone that decided to takeadvantage of that early.
Camp plus mops of Palooza Passthat's available on the site.
(22:35):
Um, so I would encourage you tosnag that if you, especially if
you can get l and d budget, um,because there will be a really
special networking activity thatwe pull together.
Uh, and you can imagine if we'rein and around the downtown
Disney space, uh, it may involvesome activities around there.
So, um, I would encourage you tothink about still grabbing one
(22:55):
of those because we would bringeveryone together for a special
sort of professional networkingactivat.
Awesome.
Yeah.
So damn, it's not
Naomi Liu (23:05):
lost.
Mike Rizzo (23:08):
and Hartmann,
Michael Hartmann (23:09):
you're gonna be there.
I'll be there.
Okay.
Yeah.
Naomi Liu (23:12):
What I want is for you to wear Mickey er Rizzo and
uh, do your Mickey voice.
You know, I might have somehandgun.
Really?
I get the Mickey gloves too, Ithink.
Yeah, exactly
Michael Hartmann (23:23):
right.
Oh my gosh.
Like I'm, now I've got thisvision of you with Mickey gloves
on.
Uh,
Mike Rizzo (23:33):
give it to Mickey.
Michael Hartmann (23:34):
I mean, Mikey, I mean yeah,
Naomi Liu (23:39):
Yeah.
Oh man.
Mike Rizzo (23:40):
Oh, I just set myself up for so
Michael Hartmann (23:42):
many jokes later.
Oh yeah.
It's just, it's all coming.
The rest of the year is messedup for
Naomi Liu (23:46):
me now.
Yeah,
Michael Hartmann (23:49):
that's all.
Any, any other sort of, uh,things that you guys have so far
this year?
Trends you're seeing?
Mike Rizzo (24:00):
I don't know.
Trends wise, I don't know.
I think the data piece is a goodone.
That
Michael Hartmann (24:07):
rev op stuff is interesting, although I
still, I still, still, I stillthink there's a lot of confusion
about what that means.
Mike Rizzo (24:16):
Yep.
Yeah, and that's what I wasgonna say too, like, great, that
that happens to be the thingthat's on the rise, but like,
I'm not confident speaking oflike being confident in the data
like not confident that the, uh,actual underlying function is
well defined and understood yet,and.
(24:37):
and hey, that's what we're allhere for.
Right?
Who better than all of theprofessionals out there to help
shape it
Michael Hartmann (24:44):
correctly?
Well, and I know there's anotherone that, um, another, I think
hopefully, for me at least, Ithink it's, uh, I'm, I'm really
curious to see if it becomesmore of a trend is the idea of a
marketing chief of staff.
Mike Rizzo (25:00):
I, I, I'm very excited about that.
We actually, I was sitting with,I went to the sendo, so event.
Um, a couple weeks ago and therewas like, Sanger was there and
Melissa McCreedy and, um,Stephanie from, from Valenti.
Valenti.
Mm-hmm.
Um, we were all sitting aroundtalking shop and, and that was
(25:21):
one of the things we talkedabout was like this possibility
of the, um, chief of staff typeof role for marketing ops, but
also that there needs to be sortof a shake up at the coo.
like the COO function hasn'treally been redefined or like
(25:42):
rejiggered to be understoodsince the sort of evolution of
tech, uh, started hitting right?
Like the traditional COO whenyou go sort of dig into it or,
or what have you, was certainlyaround ever since.
Who knows long how long, right.
Industrial era for sure.
But when you start to bring intech, should the COO role have a
(26:04):
shake?
Could it potentially be moretech oriented and understanding
of the landscape of thego-to-market function and the
requirements that are needed tobe able to do that?
I don't know.
So I think it was a really goodquestion.
So it was, we were teeteringback and forth between like this
idea of chief of staff or somesort of C level and the group
(26:25):
there was like, maybe it's coo Iwas like,
Michael Hartmann (26:29):
yeah.
Interesting.
Um, what
Mike Rizzo (26:32):
do you think Naomi?
Coo.
Naomi Liu (26:34):
I mean, I, I, I would love that.
That, I think that's amazing,right?
Mike Rizzo (26:39):
You could be a coo.
Naomi Liu (26:41):
Totally.
I think so.
I'd like to think so.
Michael Hartmann (26:43):
You guys think so?
Totally.
I think so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I
Mike Rizzo (26:46):
mean, think about like contract negotiation
Naomi Liu (26:49):
technology.
Oh my gosh,
Mike Rizzo (26:52):
yes.
Go to market function likemm-hmm.
people, man, like all of it,like finance.
It.
Michael Hartmann (27:00):
Now you're speaking my language.
Naomi Liu (27:02):
Yeah, you're totally speaking my language.
I'm picking up what you'reputting down.
Mike Rizzo (27:05):
You could totally be I think it's a thing.
Michael Hartmann (27:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, well, cool.
Um, any other final thoughts?
And this is, this has been alittle bit of a catchall
episode, so a, I think, I think,I think we are all like looking
forward to like, hopefullyFebruary won't be quite like
January.
Yeah,
Naomi Liu (27:26):
but it's such a short month.
true.
Like, ah, Yeah.
It's all right.
Mike Rizzo (27:35):
We'll get through it.
It'll be good.
No, it was good to catch upthough, and think a little bit
about what's going on in thelandscape.
Yeah.
Hey, call for speakers or notspeakers.
Call for guests on the show.
Yeah.
Podcast
Naomi Liu (27:45):
guests.
Yeah.
Michael Hartmann (27:48):
Definitely reach out to us.
Come chat
Naomi Liu (27:49):
with
Michael Hartmann (27:49):
us.
Mike Rizzo (27:50):
Yeah,
Michael Hartmann (27:51):
we definitely want to chat with you.
Otherwise you just, uh, have tolisten to just us
Naomi Liu (27:57):
or you'll have to be
Mike Rizzo (27:58):
subject to an entire episode of Mickey Voice.
Okay.
Naomi Liu (28:02):
Definitely people come on the show for sure.
Okay.
All right.
We should wrap.
Michael Hartmann (28:12):
You want, you're gonna do a wrap?
Is that what you said?
No.
In Mickey voice?
Mike Rizzo (28:16):
No.
Oh my gosh.
Good.
No.
Okay.
Gracious.
No,
Michael Hartmann (28:21):
I'm not gonna do rap either.
I could.
I could lip sync a wrap maybe,but I'm not gonna do a wrap.
that's it.
They did a rap at the
Naomi Liu (28:29):
Sendo event.
Some people went upstage.
I think Sanger wrote a rap
Mike Rizzo (28:33):
or something.
It was great.
I can only imagine you had to bethere.
Michael Hartmann (28:39):
Were there any videos?
I
Mike Rizzo (28:40):
think someone got a video.
Yeah, I didn't
Michael Hartmann (28:44):
So did I.
Have I ever told you the storyabout being in a flash mob?
Sorry, this is totally, it is.
It is marketing ops relatedbecause it was at, it was at an
equa user conference.
No pre preor.
It was right before the Oracleacquisition actually.
Yeah, there was, so the, andthe, the reason I know it's that
is because the salesperson thatwe, we bought from tried, like,
(29:08):
she called me to get me to go,Hey, will you do this flash mob
thing we're gonna do?
One day?
I was like, ah, fine, I'll doit.
Really no interested in it.
It was dancing.
So that's the other thing.
And then she didn't show up.
I was like, it turns out shewas, she had been selling to
Oracle, right.
Selling the product.
And that turned around toOracle, wanting to buy Equa.
(29:30):
Mm.
Um, and so she wasn't there, butYep.
It was actually a lot of fun.
Totally.
Would do it again.
So we need, maybe we need to doa flash mob at, oh, see, I just
gave it up.
Can't do it now.
I mean, but
Naomi Liu (29:41):
it's, it's just an idea at the,
Mike Rizzo (29:43):
so maybe someone will organize it secretly and we
will have no idea.
Maybe it'll be you.
Hartmann.
No,
Michael Hartmann (29:53):
won't be me.
why?
Mike Rizzo (29:56):
Why was the flash mobs dancing so bad?
Oh, Hartmann organized.
Yeah.
Michael Hartmann (30:00):
I, I, I was a choreographer.
I'm just kidding.
No, it's totally true.
Naomi Liu (30:08):
The whole thing is just jazz hands, jazz, hands.
Yeah.
Michael Hartmann (30:15):
So there you go.
I could do that.
I could do jazz hands or, uh,you know, the, the, uh, parade
wave Oh my
Naomi Liu (30:23):
gosh.
Mike Rizzo (30:24):
I was like, what's he gonna say?
Oh, a parade wave.
Okay.
Michael Hartmann (30:27):
Yeah.
No, it's, it is, it's pg.
Maybe even G.
Maybe G.
All right.
So in there I've just, uh, mythings you didn't know about my
Michael, um, icebreaker is nowgone.
I'm gonna have to come up withsomething.
Yeah.
Mike Rizzo (30:42):
Uh, apparently there's a bunch of like little
hidden secrets in this one.
I think the episode will belike, Mickey joined to the show
and Hartmann tells us about hisdancing skills.
Tune in Yeah.
And Naomi's like, why am I onthis show
Naomi Liu (30:59):
with this?
Although there's gonna be
Mike Rizzo (31:03):
something.
She's gonna come out and sharesomething and we're gonna, oh my
gosh, gauze.
Michael Hartmann (31:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, she's already, she what,what you, you've, you've given
some away some secrets, like howto actually get a meeting with
you.
I know that so.
Oh yeah.
Naomi Liu (31:17):
So I can give it all away, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Michael Hartmann (31:21):
So.
Alright.
Well I think we are all readyfor the, and so for our
listeners and audience, it's aFriday afternoon, so I think we
are all about done.
Yeah.
Mike Rizzo (31:32):
I'm done.
I actually have like two morecalls.
I have to go get on one,starting in three minutes.
But you know,
Michael Hartmann (31:38):
All good.
All good.
All right.
Thanks everyone for listeningand, uh, continue to support us.
As we mentioned earlier, wealways are interested in hearing
about new guests or, uh, orideas for guests.
Or if you wanna be a guest orreach out to us, we'd be happy
to talk.
Until next time, we will.
Uh, we'll talk to you later.
Bye.
Bye everybody.
(31:58):
Bye Ron.
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