November 20, 2022 • 57 mins
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In this episode, we talk with Omair Izhar to talk about what it is like working in Marketing Operations in Europe, especially with a US-based company. Omair is currently the Head of Marketing Operations and Technology at Ably. Prior to that, Omair had several roles in Demand Gen, general Marketing and Marketing Ops roles. He has also worked for Oracle / Eloqua.
Tune in to hear:
- His experience working in MOPs in Europe vs other regions such as the United States) and what do he sees as the major differences between Europe and the US (or other regions).
- What he has found to be effective in managing global teams dispersed in several regions.
- How Omair's roles evolved and expanded over time and how did he's gotten support to increase his scope of responsibilities.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michael Hartmann (00:00):
Hello everyone.
(00:00):
Welcome to another episode ofOpsCast, brought to you by
marketing ops.com.
It's powered by the Mo Pros.
I am your solo host.
This episode Michael Hartmann.
Uh, Mike and Naomi are unable tojoin today, so we're gonna get
going anyway, joining me todayis Omair Izhar and we are going
to talk about what it is likeworking in marketing operations
(00:22):
in.
Um, and specifically in hiscase, working with US based
company.
Um, he, Omair is currently thehead of marketing, operations
and Technology at Aly.
Prior to that, Omair had severalroles in demand gen, general
marketing and marketing opsroles.
He is, uh, also worked forOracle slash Eloqua.
So Omair thank you for joiningus today on, uh, for those, for
(00:45):
our recording, right.
This is a late Friday for you.
So staying late on, uh, the lastday of the.
Omair Izhar (00:53):
Hi.
Thank you, Michael for um,inviting me over.
It's a pleasure.
Um, joining this incrediblepodcast, been listening to this
for, for quite some time, andit's, it's kind of amazing to be
a guest as well.
So yeah, I'm looking forward forit.
Michael Hartmann (01:05):
Uh, flattery will get you everywhere, you
know, we'll take it.
All right.
Well, so it, it has been a, abit of a custom for us, I think,
for a while now, to start the,some of these episodes with, you
know, people sharing theircareer story and how they got
into marketing up.
So what, like, let's continuethat and have you share kinda
your journey and how you endedup in marketing ops and, and
(01:27):
then we'll go from there.
Omair Izhar (01:30):
Definitely, um, I think like many, um, marketing
ops have been kind of accidentalfor me.
Um, I, after graduated, um,joined.
A company called B System, whichwas acquired by Oracle way back.
And um, I joined them as um,Eloqua administrator.
So that's ideally my journeycoming into Swell.
(01:53):
But yeah, it started withEloqua.
Eloqua, you know, making surelike, um, it's been set up, um,
for success.
Ideally with the sunset of kana,a lot of people probably might
not know about.
It was sunset, it was coming toend of his life.
And like I, we just replacingit.
And yeah, that ideally justbecome my, um, marketing ops
(02:16):
journey.
Um, you know, managingmarketing, um, automation
platform down to now, um,leading a team, um, for Aly.
Um, So yeah, that's, that'shighly what it is.
And, and again, in between that,from Oracle, uh, into world of
Cisco, um, I've been there forroughly, uh, five and a half
(02:37):
years.
And again, doing pretty muchmarketing operation, elevated
roles, um, right away from beingsomeone who just, um, helping
them setting up their, um,Marketing and channel program,
as well as setting up likecustom uh, processes, um, again
in house.
Um, then switching over fromthere into world of FinTech.
(02:57):
Um, a company called Ware, um,again, four plus years there.
Um, and again, incrediblejourney there.
Um, joined them as a campaignmanager and uh, ended up like
as, as a marketing operationlead, looking after just no
marketing operations, but weboperations kind of come under my
roommate as.
And, and from there, um, youknow, working for bigger
(03:18):
corporates like soft Splunk, youknow, three years there.
And, um, most recently, um, ata, a startup organization called
a.
So yeah, these pretty muchrevolved around, you know,
marketing automation tools, um,data processes, um, looking at
their strategy as well as, uh,building teams, which is more
fun part.
Michael Hartmann (03:38):
Yeah.
So it's, uh, so just like everyother marketing ops, your, your
story is just like everyone elseis in the marketing ops,
Omair Izhar (03:45):
Well, it's kind of too,
Michael Hartmann (03:47):
Right.
What I mean is that there's noconsistency whatsoever,
Omair Izhar (03:51):
I, I wish there was like a, you know, career define
for marketing ops, but yeah, Ithink it's, it's mostly
accident.
Michael Hartmann (03:58):
Yeah, I think, uh, you know, that if Mike was
here, he'd tell you that.
I think part of what his goalwhen he started the Mo Pros and
now marking ups.com was, is tostart to, to help facilitate
some of that.
And I see some of it happening.
So, um, I, I, I'm happy forthat.
So there's, I think there's lotsof opportunities where there's
gaps that have knowledge that gobeyond just, you know, knowing a
(04:19):
specific marketing automationplatform, for example, or
specific technologies.
Um, so curious, um, couple quickquestions.
So on the, on those companiesthat you, uh, have worked for,
and I, I should know this aboutAly cuz we've talked about it,
but I, and I did a little bit ofresearch, but is it a B2B or B
to C?
Do you have a mix of both inyour
Omair Izhar (04:37):
It's a mix of both.
Um, again, it's a real timeinfrastructure, um, company and.
Um, yeah, I think it's prettymuch focused around real time
data and it's a startup scaleorganization.
At the moment.
We roughly have, um, 120 folksto be more precise.
By the time I joined, we wereroughly, I think I was employee
number 64.
(04:59):
So yeah, it has definitelydoubled up since, um, I joined
them.
Michael Hartmann (05:02):
That's, that's amazing.
Yeah.
So, so it sounds like you've notonly, you've worked in b2b, b2c,
you've also worked in differentsize and stage of companies as
well throughout your career.
Omair Izhar (05:12):
That is correct.
Yeah.
Starting from, uh, midsize SMEto a big giant, um, to, again,
midsize again to a bigenterprise tour now, uh,
startup.
So yeah, it's a, it's a bit ofexperie.
Michael Hartmann (05:25):
Yeah.
Interesting.
And um, and another, I guessanother thing, especially since
you worked with Eli, worked atEloqua, right?
You were at Eloqua, specificallywithin Oracle or
Omair Izhar (05:37):
no, um, it was a company called B System.
This is what pretty much my veryfirst job and I ended up, uh,
you know, working for them forroughly six months and that
company being acquired byOracle.
So it is way before.
You know, the take over ofOracle.
So yeah, it was a middlewarecompany, which was I, you know,
(05:57):
Oracle's bread and butter.
Michael Hartmann (05:59):
Yes.
Omair Izhar (05:59):
yeah, I went through an acquisition, I, the
very first job.
And then going through thatacquisition, and again, I'm
talking about the time, like2008, like scary moments.
So yeah, way back.
Michael Hartmann (06:10):
Okay.
Well good.
All right, so this is, this hasbeen, uh, this is really, I can
find it fascinating.
Everyone's.
Story.
Let me, uh, one last questionabout that and then we'll, we
can move on to the kinda maintopic here.
But curious, one of the thingsI'm always curious about are,
are there, were there moments,uh, or decisions during your
career or people that were partof your career that you think,
(06:32):
like, you know, you look backlike, oh, that was really like
a, uh, like a key point or, orin my career where, you know,
path could've been different ifI'd made a different choice or
had different person that I wasconnected with.
Omair Izhar (06:47):
Um, I think there were some definitely defining
moments.
I think during my, my journey,um, I would definitely fly with
the very fast one.
And again, via system.
I, I had an incredible manager,um, named Paul Bhel.
Really good friends with himnow, but he was pretty much, The
(07:08):
one who defined my career right.
Had, had been my mentor forquite some time and to present
day as well.
If I give him a buzz, he willdefinitely, you know, reply to
my calls and, and, you know,talk to me and then give me, you
know, the honest, uh, advicepeople would generally would
give you.
So, yeah, he was an incredibleperson anyway, like, you know,
(07:28):
helping me, you know, again,coming straight outta uni, like
no one knows what, how exactlythings will shape up, but yeah.
Sitting me down, walking methrough it with pretty much
every single day to day stuffright away.
Like how I manage my time, how Ican better communicate, how I
speak to team, um, projectmanager and stuff like that.
And again, every single thingthat you have learned as a part
(07:50):
of Ty and bring into practicalworld.
Yeah, he's been phenomenal.
Um, while we are talking about.
The other person who's kind ofincredible within my career part
was, um, my boss at VA system,uh, sorry, at at ware.
Carrie Jones.
Um, you know, he's been in, inkind of a tech role for quite
(08:12):
some time, and yeah, again, Hehelped me, um, again, from my
days from b where to present dayas well.
Like he's, he's incredible.
Like, um, he got tons ofknowledge, you know, all school
market air with love oftechnology.
He's, he's been phenomenal aswell in terms of, you know,
asking why he's helping me,guiding me, and then again,
sometime even correcting me,right?
(08:33):
Which is important part.
So, yeah, I think these were twodefining moments, and again,
these two folks have definitely,they helped me a lot in terms of
where I am, what I have done in,in my.
Um, and again, another part ofthe question was like, if I have
thought about it differently,you know, back in the days, I
think I'm, I'm, I'm kind of a atechnical minded person, so I
would have gone a little bitdifferent like direction as
(08:56):
compared to where I am.
No regrets.
But, um, yeah, it is one ofthose things, right?
Um, you need to really.
Wake up every morning and, anddo something which you love.
And I think important for me wasthat, you know, technical
stroke, you know, doing thingsdifferently, being strategic at
the same time.
And again, marketing is, issomething which I love the most.
(09:18):
So yeah, that's, that's what Ido.
That's, that's getting meexcited every morning.
Michael Hartmann (09:21):
Uh, I, you know, I love that you've got,
like, it was pretty quickly thatyou came up with those two
people that were, you think ofkey to your career and, and, um,
if I, if I heard you right, isthat they would, not only would
they be there to answer yourquestions and give you advice,
but they would also sort ofhold, like, call you out a
little bit, right?
When you.
(09:42):
You know, like it's a, yeah.
Like look inside yourself.
So I think that's a really goodthat's, that is really good to
have people that do that foryou.
Omair Izhar (09:50):
Definitely, I think it, it, it has to be, you know,
just like talking to, you know,someone who is kind of real
honest friend, right?
Because they need to accept yourgoods and bads and, and be
honest when they, they give youfeedback.
Again, you know, relationshipwith your managers obviously is,
is important.
Like if you, from the day firstbecomes not only good friends
(10:12):
with them, but been open aboutthem and, and again, all the
other factors that will come inlike, hey, how you build
bonding, empathy, and thenobviously like, you know, pure,
honest discussions around yourcare, I think.
Yeah.
And then you can build arelatively very good bond and
yeah, that's, that's ideally thecase with both my, you know,
some of my two good.
Michael Hartmann (10:32):
That's awesome.
All right, well thank you forsharing that.
I hopefully our, our, ourlisteners will, will learn
something from that and maybetake stock of who they've got in
their circle.
Right.
So, um, let's get into this.
So one of the reasons we wantedto talk was because you, you
work in Europe, um, uh, and, butI think now you're working for,
(10:52):
and you maybe in the past too, Ican't remember exactly, but
you've worked for companiesbased in the us right?
So you're working in marketingops and marketing.
In Europe.
But if with a US based company,and I know that you and I
talked, right?
I've been the opposite whereI've, like I worked in the US
for a Japanese based company.
Um, I currently work for acompany that's, uh, UK based
actually.
Um, although the business unitI'm in is really mostly us, but,
(11:16):
um, so just I think let's startwith, you know, how would you,
like, what's your experiencebeen working with, you know, in
Europe with those.
You know, for companies that arebased in the United States or
other, with other regions, um,are you, do you notice
differences about how you workwith people in Europe versus the
(11:38):
us?
Let's start with that.
Omair Izhar (11:40):
Well, the first and foremost thing is like you need
to have a world clock handy,right?
That's that's the first thingthat you need to
Michael Hartmann (11:46):
Oh my gosh.
This is like, we're recording.
We're recording this shortlyafter.
Uh, we, we at different, indifferent weeks change from
daylight savings time tostandard time, right?
And so I totally understandthat.
Omair Izhar (12:01):
So that's the very first thing.
And, and obviously the otherpiece is, um, you.
Time plays an important part.
When, when we talk about like,uh, and again, we talked about
early, like, like the bondingpiece.
That's, that's kind ofimportant.
But I think, uh, having thatface time, especially if you, if
you look at past two and a halfyears and probably some of the
(12:22):
time we're back as well, likehaving that face time is kind of
super important for, for us,especially in, in swell.
Working with those, um,corporates, again, based out of
us, uh, again, San Fran basedout of uk and then, you know,
eight hours difference.
It can be very, very difficultto manage.
But luckily, um, I've been in,in kind of a, in a hybrid work
(12:44):
for very long time, consideringlike from my early Cisco days.
And how I managed that was, um,you know, again, adjusting my.
Working hours, um, you know,talking especially about my time
at Splunk, I would have time,especially Monday and Friday.
(13:04):
Little bit working with the USalways, and obviously, um,
accommodating, like based on mypersonal life as well.
But yeah, it, it was, it wasmore, more like just like making
sure, like I create ample timefor the team there.
Plus the team was kind of super,um, um, adopted for, for me as
well in a way.
Like they, they might just stepin eight o'clock their time just
(13:25):
to have some time with me again,talking about those complex
projects where there's going tobe a cross collaboration across
the pond.
Which is, which is superimportant.
So yeah, it has to be like, youknow, a bit of flexibility
involved to it.
And again, um, giving ample, uh,prompt time to folks as well.
Otherwise, yeah, think can getlike last minute rush through
(13:48):
which I, I lead the recipe fordisaster.
So, yeah.
Um, having that moment, I thinkdefinitely.
Michael Hartmann (13:56):
Yeah, you mentioned something early in
that when you were answering thequestion about FaceTime, And I
know what, so I'll go back tothe time when I worked for a
company.
It was based in Japan.
We had, generally speaking,right?
Everything was, this was reallypre Zoom even was a big thing.
It was conference calls and um,It was so hard to, to really
(14:19):
work effectively with thosefolks over there and not like,
no one's fault.
Right.
It's just like the, thecommunication was a challenge.
Um, by the way, their, theirEnglish was far better than my
Japanese, like the one word Iknow.
Um, but, so there's that plusthe time difference plus like
the major cultural differences,and it was, it was a, it made a
(14:42):
huge difference.
Going over to Japan and meetingand socializing and working with
them in person, it, it, itreally, really changed how that
relationship worked.
I think even though we weredoing remotely after that, we,
you know, only I do that onceevery year or two.
So do you find the same thingwith, like, do you find it, uh,
(15:05):
that the case regardless ofcountry that you're working
with, or do you find it withcertain countries or certain
regions that it makes more of a.
Omair Izhar (15:13):
Well talking about, you know, uk, us.
No problem.
We speak the same.
Definitely.
But I think it worked quitewell, especially like when I,
uh, joined as, as a me person,you have to understand like the
cultural aspect.
I think this is a really goodpoint that you highlighted the
cultural differences betweenactually within Europe as well,
(15:33):
you know, outside of the Europe,you talk about Middle East for
example, and, and you know,accommodating to that, I think,
um, It definitely makes a, it'sa massive, uh, difference, you
know, understanding thatcultural aspect is super
important.
Like, um, and again, I'm talkingabout, as you mentioned, your
example around Japan.
So I ended up like working quiteclosely with folks in, you know,
(15:57):
middle East and, and, um,Southeast Asia.
It was.
Like total different way ofworking as compared to now just
like more focused around Europe,how you, you know, work with,
for example, my best friend indark region versus you know, my
best friend's in NorthernEurope.
So definitely you have to doquite a lot of tailoring around
how you work with them, how youcommunicate with them.
(16:19):
Um, but yeah, you know, talkingabout us, I think it's perfectly
fine.
I think that they are very,Understandable in terms of like
the culture.
Um, but yeah, again, one of thekey topic that we previously
have discussed was, you know,how us as a Europe kind of work
with U us and I think there isgoing to be a, a, a continuous,
um, conversation around like howwe need to tailor those aspects
(16:43):
for, for Europe.
One fit all, um, doesn't worksometimes, uh, but yeah, having
that, um, I'll call it the, the.
What's the word I'm looking for?
Like it's, it has to be likesuper tailored around like what
we do, for example, region byregion.
And if you don't understandcertain things by talking to
(17:04):
them, then yeah, you won't beable to, um, build the right
processes, build the right wayof communication with them.
So just visiting those regionswould not help.
But yeah, I'm obviously, um,learning.
I think it's a two way, uh,traffic.
You have to continuously learn.
One key thing I think is superimportant, which I find it very,
very helpful within my career aswell.
(17:25):
One of my key managers used tosay that to me, like every time
when you speak to a differentperson and to a different
region, be a Mickey Mouse islike VI is small mouse.
So get to listen more,understand more, and talk less.
And I think it can really,really help you.
Um, which I find it fascinatingstill the present.
Michael Hartmann (17:44):
Yeah, no, I, I think it reminds me of like the
short period of my career when Iwas in, in a sales role, in one
of the, the training, the wentthrough training.
I wasn't ready to be in sales atthat point in my career.
I really wasn't all that greatat it.
But one of the things Iremember, the biggest thing I
remember from the training,Well, there's a couple things,
(18:04):
but the one that really alwaysremember, and I think it applies
across, is that, uh, there waslike this research, like the
best sales people were not theones that we all assume.
Just talk, talk, talk, talk,talk, talk, right?
They actually asked really goodquestions.
And they listen actively and,and then they think of the next
question.
(18:24):
They're not the ones who aretalking, asking a question,
wait, not already.
Like planning on what the nextthing they're gonna say is.
I think that like, I like themMickey Mouse saying like, big
ear, small mouth.
Right?
I heard variations of that.
I think that is such aninsightful thing.
So for people even regardless ofwhether you're working people
across.
Yeah, in, in a certain region orcountry, but also, you know,
(18:45):
across the globe.
That is, I, I love that.
I'm gonna steal that MickeyMouse analogy, so thank you.
Omair Izhar (18:52):
Not a problem.
Yeah, I think it works.
Definitely works.
And I think, as you rightlysaid, like you know, you'll gig
in sales.
You know, one of the key, um, Ishould say like learning from my
career, I think it was earlydays, uh, when I was leaving
Oracle as a part of theacquisition, they actually
offered me to work in sales.
And I said like, you know what,I'm a marketer.
(19:13):
Let, let's give it a go.
And I ended up like sitting inthe sales academy for like
probably two weeks.
And at the end of two weeks Idecided, that that's not going
to be my cup of tea.
But to
Michael Hartmann (19:25):
or, or Oracle.
Oracle is, was a, and probablystill is a sales machine, right?
So,
Omair Izhar (19:31):
Oh my God.
It was, it was nice to be inthat phase.
I think you get to learn quite alot in such a quick amount of
time, but I think I decided atthe end of two weeks, like
that's where I'm not gonnasurvive.
And I think, uh, we all know thereasons behind it.
I'm gonna go into those details.
Michael Hartmann (19:48):
well, so this is a little bit of an aside.
What I will tell you, myexperience also is like I wasn't
really, that wasn't what I wasready to do or made to do,
particularly at that point in mylife and career, but, I will, I
will say it gave me a very goodperspective about how really
hard it is to sell and do itwell.
And so I, as as, especially whenyou get into marketing and
(20:10):
marketing operations, it'sreally easy to discount other,
well, it's easy to do that inany function, but I think
between marketing and sales,right, we like to discount each
other's, um, you know, theamount we add to an
organization.
And I, as much as I am a big fanof marketing and operations, I
think I also understand.
Picking up a phone and calling aprospect and getting hung up on,
(20:32):
um, asking for the, the, thecontract.
Right.
All those things are, they seemeasy, but they're not.
It is a huge ego smack whenthey, you get no's and you get
no's more than you get yeses.
Even the best salespeople wouldtell you that.
Omair Izhar (20:49):
So true.
Yeah.
Definit.
Michael Hartmann (20:52):
All right.
Well, so you mentioned somethingin there.
I, I think I, if I got it right,you know, we were talking about
like, like regional differences.
It, it, this is, I'm a, I'llgive you a for instance that I
think about when I talk topeople when we, I've, I've
worked at companies that want togo from, you know, doing a lot
of stuff in the US or Americaslike US, Canada, and some in
(21:12):
Europe, when they want to moveto other areas.
So, um, do you, do you find, cuzI think, I think of like, I
think a lot of marketers andcompanies think of like, well,
we, there's a lot of'em thinkingabout these major, like you got
the Americas, or maybe you haveNorth America, south America,
you've got Europe, middle East,Africa is all kind of grouped as
one.
(21:32):
Right?
And then AsiaPac.
And then some people, especiallytechnology companies, separate
Japan out from the rest ofAsiaPac.
But what I've, what I've found,or the way I've seen it done is
that like the Americas isgenerally done in the same way,
regardless of state or country.
I think a lot of Americancompanies when they go to
(21:53):
Europe, think of it as ahomogenous kind of place as
well, right?
Unless they're, at least from amarketing standpoint, I don't
think they do if they have feeton the ground for selling.
Cause clearly that matters.
And then I always think of, I'vealways thought of Asia like it's
like a dozen.
Places because there's actuallya lot of differences in how
(22:14):
business is done in Japan versusChina versus Australia versus
you know, Singapore or whatever.
I, I mean, is this yourobservation like, or like how
are you, I guess, especiallywhen you're sell, you're
marketing and doing stuff inEurope for a company that's
based in the US who probably haspeople who think of Europe as
this one big place.
Right?
(22:35):
How are you managing that?
Omair Izhar (22:38):
Okay.
Good question.
So first and foremost, I thinkthere are instances where as.
You pointed out they are folkson the ground, you know, and
obviously they can be your eyesand ears and obviously they are
the first person who's gonnagive you the feedback if this is
going to be the right thing todo for that particular region or
not in case we are not, and Ithink a lot of tests in trial
(22:59):
tend to happen.
Right.
But, and again, you know,considering like certain norms
in, in Europe, like France, ifyou send them English Europe,
They probably will just ignoreit.
And, and same can be set forDock Region apart from like
Swiss, where they probably wouldhave a bit of, um, you know,
(23:21):
click open and, and um, youknow, read, um, you know, stuff
like that.
But in, in terms of adding thatregional taste to it, I think,
um, looking at just Europe onits own, there are massive
differences.
Um, you know, there is a lot ofrespect factor, the, the
language.
Um, how certain things have beenkind of put together, the sense
(23:45):
of respect comes, comes intoplay.
Um, now privacy is another bigthing, especially in Europe,
which has to be like the toppriority, you know?
Um, and again, working in ops,it, it really, um, you know, you
have to like stay on top of somany different things.
Yeah.
GDPR is just one blanket, but atthe same time now, for example,
since the Brexit, like you havehis.
(24:07):
Previous rules.
So you have to keep on likereading those and staying on top
of that.
And when we talk about like,Hey, now working for us, you
have those we'll call as theglobal comps coming in and you
are the person on the groundhave to really work and
coordinate and triage, got a lotof things with your field
marketing teams on the ground.
You have to talk about all thesethings with them.
Hey, there you go.
This is going to be thelanguage.
(24:28):
This is going to be themessages.
Who you gonna target?
How are we gonna target?
How often are you gonna target?
What kind of channels we gonnause it.
And the other expert that comesinto play, and again, this is
sometimes like where ops canbecome super helpful, is like
our territory slightly now, um,into the world of sales as well.
Considering now previously thatfloats into, for example, if
(24:49):
people are using outreach orSalesLoft for their sequences,
like.
We definitely become the voicethere, helping the team define
like, Hey, this has to be toneddown, has to be slightly, you
know, changed based on theregion or the number of touches
you're gonna have becausemarketing in, in the past,
right, have tons of data aroundlike how people respond to
(25:09):
messages, type of messages,types of emails that we sent.
So again, yeah, sales still wantto send emails, but we really
are the right people on theground to work with.
To actually build a bettersequences that actually helped
the team to do conversions, getbetter acceptance of those
messages.
(25:30):
So yeah.
Um, I think it, it's a massive,um, shift since the GDPR comes
into play.
Since, um, now we are workingquite closely with, with, you
know, teams outside of our team,like we call it marketing
operation team.
So yeah, that's definitely.
Regional factor.
There's a lot of other factors,as I said, like previously.
(25:52):
Um, and obviously understandingsometime, you know, especially
like, um, my time at, at Splunkwhen we were talking about, you
know, really complex technicalwords.
So you have to really work withthe folks on the ground just to,
you know, I would call it, notthe dumb it down way, but
actually make it like simplifyso people can understand that
(26:12):
on, on regional level.
Some of those will don't evenexist in certain Aries, for
example.
But yeah.
Um, this is kind of super, I.
Michael Hartmann (26:19):
So are you.
Um, here's what's reallyinteresting to me and then I've
got a follow up.
Maybe I'll do the follow upfirst.
But it's interesting you talkabout the technical terms.
Cause I worked at TexasInstruments for a number of
years and we were, uh, workingon, uh, uh, localizing content.
And the research team that didthe research in, uh, and this
(26:40):
was particular to Asia, uh, Ican't remember it was China or
Japan.
May have been both, but whenthey went over there to see
like, uh, technicaldocumentation, like data sheets
on products, right?
With do we need to translatethose, what was really
interesting is what they foundgoing into people's offices.
They was usually an engineer whowould be in their, in their
office that would literallyprint out the.
(27:02):
Document and then in the marginshad the translations and they
actually didn't want thetranslated content.
Cause I think a lot of us justassumed, oh, they were gonna
want it translated to chin, youknow, one of the Chinese
languages or kaji or, orwhatever.
But in fact, they didn't trustthe translation on technical
information.
(27:22):
It was really fascinating.
So, um,
Omair Izhar (27:26):
You rightly pointed out like we, we decided like
have all this Chinese orJapanese text, all of it and
technical terms, they remain inEnglish.
Right.
So, um, yeah, man.
Again, not to forget like a lotof times the browsers,
especially like they were justusing the machine translations.
Oh my God.
Like, uh, it can be, it can be,yeah.
(27:48):
it can be a.
Michael Hartmann (27:50):
I could get the gist of some stuff by Trent
doing those translates, like,uh, I remember getting, yeah,
replies from people frommarketing emails in other
regions and it would be inwhatever their local language
was.
And I'd like, I don't know whatthis says and I've thrown into a
translate tool and, um, it neverwas.
Never felt like it was quiteright, so, but Okay.
(28:12):
So I'm curious, so you, you, Ibrought up translation, but I
didn't hear you talking abouttranslated content, which was
interesting to me.
Maybe you were implying it therefor regional differences within
the, the continent and all that.
But are, I mean, are you,because I think a lot of us in
the US would think, oh, Youknow, they don't really need it
translated, or we need totranslate it into, you know, say
(28:34):
three major Spanish, French,German, right cover, that'll
cover everybody.
Like, I don't know, like, is it,is translation an important
piece for you there on whenyou're getting stuff or is it
more about, uh, you mentionedsimplify, simplifying the
English content so that it willwork across multiple countries.
Omair Izhar (28:54):
I think it's, it's a, it's a combination of both.
And I think you right, youpointed out I was, you know, in
talking about regionalization, Ithink I was meant to include
that translation component aswell.
It can.
One of our, you know, biggestsuccesses as well is it can
become the bottom neck as well.
And I think most of the dailysare kind of related to
localization and translation.
So, um, yeah, I think there,there's a combination of two
(29:17):
things, right?
There's, uh, simplified Englishthat has been kind of, you know,
kind of tailored to use.
I outside of the, you know, theAmericas as such.
Um, a lot of time, you know,This can be the right route.
Um, and then again, it, it, canbe instances like that where,
um, you know, and again, certaincountries, especially in
(29:41):
mainland Europe, they would notopen up emails based on their
subject lines.
But overall, we have seen, like,if it's been like really nicely
written and tailored accordingto mainland Europe, They have a
really good success rate.
Yes, of course localization willcome into play because there's
going to be a massive ask,especially around dark region
because, you know, the sense ofrespect and, and localization, I
(30:04):
think is kind very, you know, gohand in hand is very important
for them.
Um, there, there have beeninstances in my short career as
well where I've seen like, hey,localization becomes like a big.
Block pen and everyone'sbackside in a way, like by the
time localization comes in, Ithink the ship has sailed and
the campaign won't even go live.
(30:24):
Um, and again, it totallydependent on the complexity as
well.
So, and again, combination ofsimplicity and making sure,
like, you know, when we aregoing for localization and, you
know, speed to execute is, issuper important for that.
So, yeah.
And again, instances like thecompanies I work with, they kind
of, you know, split Europe intotier one and tier two countries
(30:46):
considering like everyone, likewhere their most box are coming
from.
So prioritizing is this superimportant and, and making sure,
like, I think.
Us as marketing ops and I thinkwe, we play multiple, uh, roles,
especially in Europe and again,working for, for US companies,
we've become like projectmanagers as well.
In many instances.
(31:06):
I've done this thing, um, youknow, role multiple times where
I am the one who's coordinatingthe efforts in terms of making
sure, like we.
We create those formats whichare quick to localize and quick
to convert back into theoriginal formats.
So, you know, back in the, wetend to have those Excel files
to a point, like now we arecoming to a point, we have
(31:27):
sophisticated dams.
Ideally they're doing the samefunctions and now the
connectivity makes things supereasy for us to.
Push and publish stuff directlyinto our marketing automation
and CMSs and and stuff likethat, which obviously helps us a
lot as an ops person becausespeed is every single thing that
helps us to execute and we haveto.
(31:48):
Work across the region, andagain, America being one like,
but here we have again,different time zones as well,
just like us, right?
But we have to give timeseparately to just give an
example down region, not, um,Northern Europe.
And then we have SouthernEurope, and then if we extend
down to south, um, you know,again, Eastern Europe as well,
things are done slightlydifferently.
So yeah, the, these are all thefactors which, which come in.
(32:12):
Regardless of methods, you justwanted to, you know, take them
as, as priority one, country'spriority, two countries or, you
know, rest of the Europe as wecall it.
So it is, it is important.
Um, but yeah, it is vital thatas a part of the process, as, as
you becoming the PM youcoordinate all those efforts
together.
Sometime you actually drive thewhole team forward as well,
(32:35):
considering like if it's a, is akey thing to deliver.
You make sure like everyonewho's responsible for doing
certain jobs in order to, youknow, make the whole program
successful, they do thingsrightly in a timely manner.
Michael Hartmann (32:48):
Yeah, so I think what I took away from that
is if you are, you're in aposition where you or your team
is thinking about doinglocalized content, whether it's
emails or Atlantic pages or webcontent, whatever it is that,
um, I.
You, you need to allow ampletime for the translation and
review and QA of it, because ifyou don't right, then you're,
(33:10):
you're putting yourself at riskor, or you need to then decide,
you know, if that's, if that'snot enough, if you don't have
enough time for that, do youstill go to market with
something that you have that isin English?
Um, right.
Or whatever language you startwith, um, which makes sense.
I mean, I, I like you, I mean,every place I've seen
translation, even if there is a,one of these translation engines
(33:34):
that gets smarter as youfeedback the corrections, um,
there's, I, I have never found,I've not found a place that is
comfortable with just trustingthat without having somebody
within the company.
Right, or somebody that knowsthat space.
So you might hire an individualcontract or something, but which
you're right, it slows it down,particularly if it's de detailed
(33:56):
content.
Omair Izhar (33:58):
Of course, and I think it is, um, right to call
out.
Right?
Um, when we talk about marketingoperations roles and how they
kind of transform into roles inEurope as, as I mentioned
earlier, like you becoming thePM role.
But another thing that I, Ithink like we, we wear multiple
hats is like, I consider ourroles become like, um, you know,
(34:21):
PM on different levels.
Like we become marketingmanagers at certain instances as
well, right?
Um, as, as we always have thosenew product launches or new
program launches, now we have aseat on those calls.
And the important factor thereis like the, you know, creating
the preparedness level furtherdown.
So, for example, it's a bigprogram being launched and
obviously the aspect is alwaysabout, Hey, let's discuss.
(34:45):
Reach, like where are we gonnatarget them?
Obviously outside of themainland America is just Europe,
okay?
For us, it's like we, we are theone raising hand.
Hey, if we need to look atthese, we have to really factor
in the localization aspects.
And what that meant is like ifwe are meant to launch on, just
give an example, 1st of March,we need to give at at least, you
(35:07):
know, three to four weeks.
Prepare time of localization.
And again, as you're right, yousaid human factor will come into
way because someone has toeyeball it, like making sure
like the, the sentences areended correctly.
The um, um, the prefixes arekind of localized in the right
(35:28):
way.
You know, last name was kind ofused in every way, whereas
Germany, we need to make surelike it's been, you know, set up
correctly.
So yeah, it has to be.
You know, that particular rolewhere we actually become key
individuals who actually workwith those corporate teams,
product teams or whatever it is,to make sure, like we, we build
those project management, thewhole program.
(35:50):
Otherwise, yeah, as we write,said, Hey, if you're launching
it, like we are launching inpiecemeal, right?
The English goes first and thenthe rest of the language is
coming second.
So this is, this is kind of veryimportant.
And again, especially for bottlelaunches, it's super critical,
uh, and.
Our marketing, um, programmanager hat will come into play
(36:11):
massively every day in makingsure, like we have active
conversation with pretty mucheveryone within the organization
and outside of the organizationwhere we are working with
localization agencies.
Michael Hartmann (36:23):
Yeah, that's, that's so true.
So for our listeners who haven'tgone through dealing with that,
someone comes to you and says,you wanna do localized content,
can't you just throw it inGoogle translate?
No, you can't.
Like, you can, you can, butyou're probably not, you're
gonna end up regretting it.
Um,
Omair Izhar (36:41):
and, and back in the days, right, we, we tend to
have those Excel files.
And again, considering like, uh,if you need to convert those
things back into landing pagesor emails or, uh, now sequences
in your outreach platforms, youdon't speak that language.
I have to really coordinatethat, like what need to replace
what it, it's just, that'sincredible.
And, and back in the days if youtalk about like how those.
(37:06):
How things, you know, make yourlife difficult.
Consider like someone from Spainor Italy or any other country
will come, Hey, this, there's anerror in this line and for you,
every single thing is Jewishanyway.
Right?
So I'm gonna change what, so,you know, having those things,
and again, you have to, youknow, not be a rocket scientist
to understand how to actuallymanage that.
(37:27):
But I think, as I said, youbecome that PM who actually
handle those expectations in theright.
you need to come up with thosecreative ways to make sure, like
what were you trying to achieveactually resonate with everyone
within those projects.
Um, otherwise you're building arecipe for disaster.
Michael Hartmann (37:45):
Yeah, I it.
Well, and then there's also justnuances of local.
I don't even know what the wordis, but like phrases that you,
we just use and just assume, saythe US people know, like there
was one, I wanna say it was somevariant of like 24 7 that if we
used it in Japan, apparently itwas actually like a really
(38:07):
negative thing.
I'm probably getting itcompletely wrong, like what
there was, but there wassomething very much like that.
Something that we would normallyuse in the US to represent like
how available we are, or itwould've been general.
Interpret it as a good thing.
And it was like the opposite inthis other region, and it was,
thankfully we had somebody therewho had told us, right, you
(38:28):
can't use that.
But those are like notranslation engine's gonna
really pick that up.
Omair Izhar (38:34):
No, I think.
That's so true.
And again, uh, that's why a lotof now new companies that, you
know, in the back end, the daysused to be only sdl.
And again, I don't get no favorsfrom them by saying that, but
you know, um, as, as you rightlycalled out, like it used to be
like very much a human based,like localization at that time
(38:56):
to point, like now we have fewnew, um, players in, in the.
Um, which, which talk aboutlike, those AI based, um,
localization and, and actuallythey get, you know, all these
things like easily picked up.
Um, they flag, uh, you know,information like that over to
you and obviously you can decidelike what actions you're gonna
(39:17):
take.
So I think the technology isdefinitely helping us a lot in
terms of moving in the rightdirection, simplify things for
us.
Um, and again, it has good andbad to it, but I see definitely,
you know, Technology isdefinitely helping us massively
where we have to deal with somany different use cases along
(39:38):
the same time within Europe andoutside of the Europe,
especially where languages areconcerned.
Michael Hartmann (39:44):
Well, so let's, let's switch gears a
little bit.
So if I remember right in ourearlier conversation, you have a
team that has actuallydistributed, not just in Europe,
but I think in other regionsaround the world, right?
Is that correct?
Omair Izhar (39:58):
Um, that's correct.
At, at as Splunk.
We had team pretty much startedall around global, especially
focused on us actually likefollow the sun movement and
obviously we have folks in, inPAC as well.
Um, my role at Aley, obviously,you know, we are remote first
company, so we had team prettymuch started it all around.
(40:19):
Um, my team is pretty much like.
Everywhere.
Like sometimes they are inSpain, sometimes they are
sitting in, in sunny Dubai.
So yeah, it, it is the case.
Michael Hartmann (40:30):
What, so what are some, you know, some of your
lessons learned over the yearsthat you could share with our
listeners about?
You know, uh, particularly thoseare either working with or
managing teams are distributed,uh, across, you know, pretty
wide swaths of the, of theworld.
Omair Izhar (40:47):
Um, good question.
I think one of the key thingswhich.
In my view can be the biggestsuccess, uh, when you're
building team.
I think it's, it's that, um, theopenness, uh, within your team.
I think I like to be managed.
Uh, you know, like the way Imanage my team is the same way I
like to be managed, so I thinkthat's something which I, um,
have applied massively within,within my teams as well.
(41:09):
Obviously people talk about, youknow, accountability, like, you
know, having so many differentproject management tools and,
and stuff like that.
Um, I, I think they are good forus in terms of helping us, but I
think the success lies when,when we are managing those
remote, uh, remote teams and,and again, teams sitting in
different times.
Is continuous communication andcollaboration.
(41:32):
Um, what I found really helpfulis some sort of, um, visual
platform, which really helps theteam.
Um, one of the key ones,obviously, I, I use Asana
massively in, you know, from myearly days to now, I switched
over to use of mirror.
(41:53):
That has been a life changer interms of how we put our efforts
together, collaborate together,how we actually get our work
done together.
Um, again, this is superimportant.
Now, again, managing thoseteams, I think.
You have to build quite a lot ofpersonal bonds with the team.
I think one of the key thing, Ithink my team would laugh at it
(42:14):
if they get to listen to thispodcast.
They used to call me a motherlyfigure within, within the team
considering like, I care and Isuper care my team because, um,
especially wellbeing of yourteam members is super important.
Like if they are, and again, I'mnot gonna use the word like
properly looked after, but if itis kind of very real, like if
(42:35):
they.
Lists been listened all thetime.
They've been like actively, youknow, asked about like, you
know, what they think about ourteam, our management style, you
know, other teams which kind ofwork with us.
They will become like, you know,real core members of your team.
(42:55):
They will actually go out of theway and actually do things like
we have all these instances.
We have, you know, Last minutechanges.
We have those fire drills, wehave those things just going p
shape.
Like they will actually, youknow, step in and actually do
things, which I call itmiracles, right?
Um, if you don't look afterthem, if you don't speak to
(43:17):
them, if you don't have thatfactor built into it, and again,
it is important that you havethat one to one and actually one
to many kind of a bond inbetween the teams.
Yeah.
Otherwise the there is, there'snever going to be a success.
One thing which I always talk tomy team is like, there's no, I,
there's always a, we, you know,um, we as a team compliment each
(43:39):
other.
Right.
Um, I obviously, like, I've beenin, in this role for quite some
time, but I see my younger teammembers who actually bring in 10
of, um, skill set, which I don'thave it.
And, and we all compliment eachother.
But yeah, again, we, we listento each other a lot.
We learn from each other a lot.
(44:00):
Um, other successes, which Ifound like managing teams like
that is, is I call itdownloading information, right?
As in, in simple way, likedocument every single thing,
like tips and tricks as we mighthave learned throughout your
career.
Um, luckily, like I tend tostore quite a lot of things on
my Google Drive, so what I do islike if, when I move roles, I
bring those kind of knowledge,customize it based on my role,
(44:22):
and make sure I communicate withthe team as well.
You know, if they don'tunderstand certain things, I'll
make sure I, you know, spendtime with them talking with
those changes.
And likewise.
If I get to, you know, seesomething like incredibly happen
by like, done by certain teammembers, I make sure like they
have been recorded.
Like, and, and it's been sharedall across the team as well.
One thing, which I find, I thinkthe success of team lies in
(44:46):
that, like, not tying your handaround things, but actually
opening it up so people canlearn from you.
Um, and again, it's, it's, youknow, you don't see that, you
know, effect straight away, butyou will see that you.
Compounding massively.
Like the way you start sharingthings, what you know with
others, they will get to pickthat up and share further more.
(45:07):
I think that is what I found inops world, especially, like what
you guys have been doing is thesame thing.
The knowledge that you guyshave, you've been sharing your
lacrosse, so it's, it's, it'svalid within the team as well.
Whatever you have learned, youjust continuously share, and
this is where I see people,people will start building
those, you know, motioncontinuously.
You will see that impact.
(45:28):
When they, you know, your teammember will go in and work for
another team, they will startdoing the same thing, like all
the good habits that they havelearned in your team.
So, yeah, openness is superimportant.
Not keeping your hands tiedaround things is, is super
important.
And one thing, which I alwayshighlighted with my team, like
back in the days, people tend tohave this thing like around, you
(45:49):
know, the stuff, the processes,I, I, I kind of simply
highlighted them, Hey, I createdup my replicates, I create my.
Replaceable because, you know,this is where I think this, you
know, the learning will come in,but this is where the successes
will come in.
So yeah, let's just not restrictyourself into just one thing,
open up share, and you'll see,um, you know, really, really
(46:12):
awesome stuff happening.
Michael Hartmann (46:14):
Uh, it, it's, um, I feel like I could have
just been saying a lot of thesame things cuz I, I think I,
cuz I've had distributed teamsnot as widely distributed as
yours, I think for a while.
And I've found that I'll, I'llparaphrase a little bit right.
That, that, um, Manage the wholeperson.
Right?
So not just their work.
You know, it's like, cuz I thinkit's just unrealistic that
(46:36):
people can separate work inprivate life.
Right?
You know, that doesn't mean youpry or, or do, but if, if
someone's struggling and yourecognize it, right.
Being aware of that and beingthere to support however they
want.
Um, but also, um, to me it's alot about building trust, right?
So sharing information.
I think if you share as much asyou can, Uh, uh, that when the
(47:01):
time comes where they may askyou something, you say, I just
don't know, or I'm not able toshare because of what a reason
you built the trust.
They're like, you would share ifyou could.
And, um, so I, I think that's areally important one.
I think your point aboutcomplimenting each other and be
working together as a team to besuccessful.
(47:21):
Totally agree with that, right?
I think there's.
Uh, a lot of value ofunderstanding your, your blind
spots along with like what otherthings that your other, the rest
of your team brings to thetable.
And then being humble enough toask for help when you have to,
you know, work with your, thatarea of your.
Responsibility that doesn'treally take advantage of your
(47:44):
strengths.
Right.
So, um, I think all this stuffthat you just talked about, like
every one of those, not only doI think that works, I think it's
super, it's almost absolutelyrequired when you've got a
distributed remote team.
I think it works just as wellwith people in person, but you
could probably get away with alittle bit less of that because
(48:04):
that, yeah, that direct humanconnection in face to face time.
You know, you get the advantageof body language, all body
language, not just, you know,you know, neck up.
Right.
So, um, yeah, so it, it's funnybecause we actually just
recently made a, within our, uh,leadership team at the company I
(48:26):
met, we was like, we're gonnacommit to, cuz we were getting
outta the habit of not being oncamera on, and we have a widely
distributed team, like not beingon camera and we're like, Let's,
like, let's all agree that we'regonna try do our best, we're
gonna be on camera, uh, andwe're gonna do, be on camera
with as much of our body as wecan, right?
Because so much of it is, well,you, our listeners can't see
(48:47):
like, I'm using my hands rightnow.
Right?
So like, hands, mood, you know,facial features, all that stuff
is so huge in building the, theconnections.
Anyway, uh, we could probably goon a whole long about, about
that, but that's like, I'mreally glad to hear that.
Like, actually what's comfortingto me is that your take on that
(49:08):
with a completely probablydifferent set of people, a
different regions of the world,like I think that translates
because it's a human naturething.
Omair Izhar (49:17):
Of course, and.
Is just not that human nature.
I think you, as you, right?
You said the body, um, your handgestures, your oral, you know,
expressions.
I think, you know, it, it playsa massive role.
One thing right now, I'msitting, um, on my chair, but I
generally, you know, stand upmost of the time so people will
see me like walking back and,you know, having a gesture.
(49:37):
I think it's important.
One thing, which I, I think isimportant, as you talked about,
trust, um, I made.
We just have those, you know,zoom meetings, but at the same
time, we'd have no, you know,zoom meeting with no cameras on,
like where I asked my team tobe, Hey, let's just have a voice
call only, and for, for thatparticular call, you need to get
(49:58):
out of your office as well.
Like if you are especiallyworking remotely to, to ensure
that, you know, We have the timeto look at what's happening all
around us.
Like, you know, the weather isgood, just make sure you get
little bit of sun.
And obviously, um, for all ourpretty much team discussions
like that, you know, it's, it'sbeen allocated like every month
we do minimum one call likethat, where we spend good 30 to
(50:21):
40 minutes just like that, likeno camera, but.
We've been out and about and,and do things.
And again, as I said, like whenyou have been out and about
ideas flows in, and that itactually helped us massively in
terms of doing the things peoplenot thought about it.
So,
Michael Hartmann (50:36):
I've, worked at a place where we, this was
bef pre covid where we didwalking meetings.
Omair Izhar (50:41):
it helped right?
Michael Hartmann (50:45):
definitely.
Ideas flowing.
Whoa.
Um, wow.
I, there's so much more I wannaask you, but like, let's, let's,
we're gonna have to wrap it up.
Why don't we just do, I'll leaveit open to you a little bit and
that, is there anything that wehaven't covered that you would
want to share with ourlisteners?
About working with remote teams,working as a a, especially for
(51:05):
our listeners who are maybe inthe US and working with
colleagues who are in otherparts of the world.
Right?
What are you, what are thingsyou'd want them to remember, uh,
when they're working with thosefolks that they may not be
thinking about or understandabout what it's like to be on
that other side of that sort ofreceiving end of here's a new,
here's new, uh, you know,marketing communications plan.
Omair Izhar (51:28):
Yeah, I think the way I would like to.
Highlight, I think as a part oflearning is, um, talk.
That's, that's important factor.
The other piece is celebratetogether, right?
It's just not your successes,but considering working with,
um, a diverse team as we alltalk about it, I think celebrate
(51:48):
their locals celebrations.
Like, you know, you don't have.
We have als, we have so manylocal festivals, you know, have
that thing factor in because youwill learn a lot from it, right?
So yeah, it just opens up somany different things.
Like we, you know, I introducedwhere your local dress day, you
(52:10):
know, something, which I findlike funny at the same time is
like interesting as well.
Um, but yeah, I think this, thisreally helps.
Um, it, it.
In a way like it breaking theice, it let people open up and
obviously build bonds.
You know, we all are like afamily.
This is where we spend most ofour time outside of our, you
(52:31):
know, close family.
So make more bonds, you know,have more conversations because
ideally you, you know, this willactually get you.
Where you want it to be, youknow, network, you know, and as,
as you rightly said earlier,raises hand where you don't know
something, you know, ask forhelp, really need help.
Um, but yeah, enjoy, um, I thinkcelebrate and have more fun at
(52:54):
work and, uh, and just be readyto, you know, continuously help
others.
Because this is where you willsee, um, you.
out of blue, people will step inand help you out of trouble.
You know, not considering likewe are going through a very
tough time.
People will step in and, youknow, amazing things like, you
(53:16):
know, I know for sure recentlywith all the layoffs and stuff
happening, people aren't comingout of the way and then helping
people out, like especially opsand outside of ops, um, to get
into new roles.
You know, some of the folkswhich I have previously worked
be like they are mentoring,right?
So it is, it is important, likeopen up, just, you know, just
(53:37):
know someone who just like, youknow, we living the silo.
Open up and let people come intothat circle.
It's going to be super importantfor your success.
Michael Hartmann (53:44):
Yeah, so remember the Mickey Mouse
analogy, right?
Big ears,
Omair Izhar (53:50):
Of course.
Michael Hartmann (53:50):
mouth.
And I, I think maybe this iswhat you were getting at with
like, uh, celebrate together.
All this is like, I think it'sreally easy for us to focus on
efficiency of say, meetings andnot leave space for building
those connections.
And I do think it's reallyvaluable to have some time built
in for, for a lot of those,which, you know, I think a lot
(54:14):
of people, you know, who look atops people or think we're
looking at, you know,optimization and efficiency and
why would we want to do that orwe, but I am.
Like, to your point, right?
I mean, you can build that trustwith people.
They will, they will then, um,pay it back when it, when the
time comes.
Omair Izhar (54:32):
Of course.
Yeah.
And um, Human factor, you know,always think about others as
human first and then youremployee or your team member.
Secondly, and I think we havelearned that in like past two
and a half years when we went inlockdown and, you know, stuff
like that.
People have issues and you knowhow people have dealt with it.
(54:53):
So.
Yeah.
Um, and again, I, I always thinklike human bust, um, helps, and
again, it fits in quite nicelywith the marketing as well,
right.
Because you know how it.
Michael Hartmann (55:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
All right, well, Amer, this hasbeen a fun conversation.
I could, we could go on forhours I think.
Um, cuz there's a lot, I think,where we overlap on our
philosophies, but if folks dowant to keep up with you or
connect with you or learn fromyou more, what's the best way
that they can do?
Omair Izhar (55:21):
Um, I am on LinkedIn and Twitter, so my
LinkedIn is Omair doar and um,at Twitter you can find me at
Omair tweets.
I think these are the two keyones, which I generally use, but
obviously, you know, you guyscan definitely help me connect
with further folks as well.
(55:42):
If someone is looking to have aconversation with me.
Um, you know, if they arelooking at some of the things
like how to build teams and,and, you know, build empathy
factors.
So yeah, I love to connect.
Um, but yeah, I, I.
It's a great platform that youguys have provided to, I don't
know, hundreds and thousands ofops professional.
(56:02):
So yeah, stay connected.
Keep on listening to, um,Michael and rest of the team.
I think you will get to learnquite a lot from it.
So yeah, touche, share to youguys, and I wish you many, many
successes.
Michael Hartmann (56:14):
Well, you, you're too kind.
But th and thank you.
So thank you for joining us.
Thanks for sharing that.
Thanks for the, the, the kindwords.
But, and then thanks to ourlisteners, uh, for continuing to
support us.
If, again, we're always lookingfor ideas for topics or, or
guests, um, including if that'ssomething that you wanna do.
So definitely get ahold of me orMike Rizzo.
(56:36):
Or Amy Lou.
We're on LinkedIn.
We're on the, uh, marketingops.com platform.
So, Thank you for everyone.
Until next time, we'll talk toyou later.
Bye.
Omair Izhar (56:47):
Thank you.
Hello everyone.
(00:00):
Welcome to another episode ofOpsCast, brought to you by
marketing ops.com.
It's powered by the Mo Pros.
I am your solo host.
This episode Michael Hartmann.
Uh, Mike and Naomi are unable tojoin today, so we're gonna get
going anyway, joining me todayis Omair Izhar and we are going
to talk about what it is likeworking in marketing operations
(00:22):
in.
Um, and specifically in hiscase, working with US based
company.
Um, he, Omair is currently thehead of marketing, operations
and Technology at Aly.
Prior to that, Omair had severalroles in demand gen, general
marketing and marketing opsroles.
He is, uh, also worked forOracle slash Eloqua.
So Omair thank you for joiningus today on, uh, for those, for
(00:45):
our recording, right.
This is a late Friday for you.
So staying late on, uh, the lastday of the.
Omair Izhar (00:53):
Hi.
Thank you, Michael for um,inviting me over.
It's a pleasure.
Um, joining this incrediblepodcast, been listening to this
for, for quite some time, andit's, it's kind of amazing to be
a guest as well.
So yeah, I'm looking forward forit.
Michael Hartmann (01:05):
Uh, flattery will get you everywhere, you
know, we'll take it.
All right.
Well, so it, it has been a, abit of a custom for us, I think,
for a while now, to start the,some of these episodes with, you
know, people sharing theircareer story and how they got
into marketing up.
So what, like, let's continuethat and have you share kinda
your journey and how you endedup in marketing ops and, and
(01:27):
then we'll go from there.
Omair Izhar (01:30):
Definitely, um, I think like many, um, marketing
ops have been kind of accidentalfor me.
Um, I, after graduated, um,joined.
A company called B System, whichwas acquired by Oracle way back.
And um, I joined them as um,Eloqua administrator.
So that's ideally my journeycoming into Swell.
(01:53):
But yeah, it started withEloqua.
Eloqua, you know, making surelike, um, it's been set up, um,
for success.
Ideally with the sunset of kana,a lot of people probably might
not know about.
It was sunset, it was coming toend of his life.
And like I, we just replacingit.
And yeah, that ideally justbecome my, um, marketing ops
(02:16):
journey.
Um, you know, managingmarketing, um, automation
platform down to now, um,leading a team, um, for Aly.
Um, So yeah, that's, that'shighly what it is.
And, and again, in between that,from Oracle, uh, into world of
Cisco, um, I've been there forroughly, uh, five and a half
(02:37):
years.
And again, doing pretty muchmarketing operation, elevated
roles, um, right away from beingsomeone who just, um, helping
them setting up their, um,Marketing and channel program,
as well as setting up likecustom uh, processes, um, again
in house.
Um, then switching over fromthere into world of FinTech.
(02:57):
Um, a company called Ware, um,again, four plus years there.
Um, and again, incrediblejourney there.
Um, joined them as a campaignmanager and uh, ended up like
as, as a marketing operationlead, looking after just no
marketing operations, but weboperations kind of come under my
roommate as.
And, and from there, um, youknow, working for bigger
(03:18):
corporates like soft Splunk, youknow, three years there.
And, um, most recently, um, ata, a startup organization called
a.
So yeah, these pretty muchrevolved around, you know,
marketing automation tools, um,data processes, um, looking at
their strategy as well as, uh,building teams, which is more
fun part.
Michael Hartmann (03:38):
Yeah.
So it's, uh, so just like everyother marketing ops, your, your
story is just like everyone elseis in the marketing ops,
Omair Izhar (03:45):
Well, it's kind of too,
Michael Hartmann (03:47):
Right.
What I mean is that there's noconsistency whatsoever,
Omair Izhar (03:51):
I, I wish there was like a, you know, career define
for marketing ops, but yeah, Ithink it's, it's mostly
accident.
Michael Hartmann (03:58):
Yeah, I think, uh, you know, that if Mike was
here, he'd tell you that.
I think part of what his goalwhen he started the Mo Pros and
now marking ups.com was, is tostart to, to help facilitate
some of that.
And I see some of it happening.
So, um, I, I, I'm happy forthat.
So there's, I think there's lotsof opportunities where there's
gaps that have knowledge that gobeyond just, you know, knowing a
(04:19):
specific marketing automationplatform, for example, or
specific technologies.
Um, so curious, um, couple quickquestions.
So on the, on those companiesthat you, uh, have worked for,
and I, I should know this aboutAly cuz we've talked about it,
but I, and I did a little bit ofresearch, but is it a B2B or B
to C?
Do you have a mix of both inyour
Omair Izhar (04:37):
It's a mix of both.
Um, again, it's a real timeinfrastructure, um, company and.
Um, yeah, I think it's prettymuch focused around real time
data and it's a startup scaleorganization.
At the moment.
We roughly have, um, 120 folksto be more precise.
By the time I joined, we wereroughly, I think I was employee
number 64.
(04:59):
So yeah, it has definitelydoubled up since, um, I joined
them.
Michael Hartmann (05:02):
That's, that's amazing.
Yeah.
So, so it sounds like you've notonly, you've worked in b2b, b2c,
you've also worked in differentsize and stage of companies as
well throughout your career.
Omair Izhar (05:12):
That is correct.
Yeah.
Starting from, uh, midsize SMEto a big giant, um, to, again,
midsize again to a bigenterprise tour now, uh,
startup.
So yeah, it's a, it's a bit ofexperie.
Michael Hartmann (05:25):
Yeah.
Interesting.
And um, and another, I guessanother thing, especially since
you worked with Eli, worked atEloqua, right?
You were at Eloqua, specificallywithin Oracle or
Omair Izhar (05:37):
no, um, it was a company called B System.
This is what pretty much my veryfirst job and I ended up, uh,
you know, working for them forroughly six months and that
company being acquired byOracle.
So it is way before.
You know, the take over ofOracle.
So yeah, it was a middlewarecompany, which was I, you know,
(05:57):
Oracle's bread and butter.
Michael Hartmann (05:59):
Yes.
Omair Izhar (05:59):
yeah, I went through an acquisition, I, the
very first job.
And then going through thatacquisition, and again, I'm
talking about the time, like2008, like scary moments.
So yeah, way back.
Michael Hartmann (06:10):
Okay.
Well good.
All right, so this is, this hasbeen, uh, this is really, I can
find it fascinating.
Everyone's.
Story.
Let me, uh, one last questionabout that and then we'll, we
can move on to the kinda maintopic here.
But curious, one of the thingsI'm always curious about are,
are there, were there moments,uh, or decisions during your
career or people that were partof your career that you think,
(06:32):
like, you know, you look backlike, oh, that was really like
a, uh, like a key point or, orin my career where, you know,
path could've been different ifI'd made a different choice or
had different person that I wasconnected with.
Omair Izhar (06:47):
Um, I think there were some definitely defining
moments.
I think during my, my journey,um, I would definitely fly with
the very fast one.
And again, via system.
I, I had an incredible manager,um, named Paul Bhel.
Really good friends with himnow, but he was pretty much, The
(07:08):
one who defined my career right.
Had, had been my mentor forquite some time and to present
day as well.
If I give him a buzz, he willdefinitely, you know, reply to
my calls and, and, you know,talk to me and then give me, you
know, the honest, uh, advicepeople would generally would
give you.
So, yeah, he was an incredibleperson anyway, like, you know,
(07:28):
helping me, you know, again,coming straight outta uni, like
no one knows what, how exactlythings will shape up, but yeah.
Sitting me down, walking methrough it with pretty much
every single day to day stuffright away.
Like how I manage my time, how Ican better communicate, how I
speak to team, um, projectmanager and stuff like that.
And again, every single thingthat you have learned as a part
(07:50):
of Ty and bring into practicalworld.
Yeah, he's been phenomenal.
Um, while we are talking about.
The other person who's kind ofincredible within my career part
was, um, my boss at VA system,uh, sorry, at at ware.
Carrie Jones.
Um, you know, he's been in, inkind of a tech role for quite
(08:12):
some time, and yeah, again, Hehelped me, um, again, from my
days from b where to present dayas well.
Like he's, he's incredible.
Like, um, he got tons ofknowledge, you know, all school
market air with love oftechnology.
He's, he's been phenomenal aswell in terms of, you know,
asking why he's helping me,guiding me, and then again,
sometime even correcting me,right?
(08:33):
Which is important part.
So, yeah, I think these were twodefining moments, and again,
these two folks have definitely,they helped me a lot in terms of
where I am, what I have done in,in my.
Um, and again, another part ofthe question was like, if I have
thought about it differently,you know, back in the days, I
think I'm, I'm, I'm kind of a atechnical minded person, so I
would have gone a little bitdifferent like direction as
(08:56):
compared to where I am.
No regrets.
But, um, yeah, it is one ofthose things, right?
Um, you need to really.
Wake up every morning and, anddo something which you love.
And I think important for me wasthat, you know, technical
stroke, you know, doing thingsdifferently, being strategic at
the same time.
And again, marketing is, issomething which I love the most.
(09:18):
So yeah, that's, that's what Ido.
That's, that's getting meexcited every morning.
Michael Hartmann (09:21):
Uh, I, you know, I love that you've got,
like, it was pretty quickly thatyou came up with those two
people that were, you think ofkey to your career and, and, um,
if I, if I heard you right, isthat they would, not only would
they be there to answer yourquestions and give you advice,
but they would also sort ofhold, like, call you out a
little bit, right?
When you.
(09:42):
You know, like it's a, yeah.
Like look inside yourself.
So I think that's a really goodthat's, that is really good to
have people that do that foryou.
Omair Izhar (09:50):
Definitely, I think it, it, it has to be, you know,
just like talking to, you know,someone who is kind of real
honest friend, right?
Because they need to accept yourgoods and bads and, and be
honest when they, they give youfeedback.
Again, you know, relationshipwith your managers obviously is,
is important.
Like if you, from the day firstbecomes not only good friends
(10:12):
with them, but been open aboutthem and, and again, all the
other factors that will come inlike, hey, how you build
bonding, empathy, and thenobviously like, you know, pure,
honest discussions around yourcare, I think.
Yeah.
And then you can build arelatively very good bond and
yeah, that's, that's ideally thecase with both my, you know,
some of my two good.
Michael Hartmann (10:32):
That's awesome.
All right, well thank you forsharing that.
I hopefully our, our, ourlisteners will, will learn
something from that and maybetake stock of who they've got in
their circle.
Right.
So, um, let's get into this.
So one of the reasons we wantedto talk was because you, you
work in Europe, um, uh, and, butI think now you're working for,
(10:52):
and you maybe in the past too, Ican't remember exactly, but
you've worked for companiesbased in the us right?
So you're working in marketingops and marketing.
In Europe.
But if with a US based company,and I know that you and I
talked, right?
I've been the opposite whereI've, like I worked in the US
for a Japanese based company.
Um, I currently work for acompany that's, uh, UK based
actually.
Um, although the business unitI'm in is really mostly us, but,
(11:16):
um, so just I think let's startwith, you know, how would you,
like, what's your experiencebeen working with, you know, in
Europe with those.
You know, for companies that arebased in the United States or
other, with other regions, um,are you, do you notice
differences about how you workwith people in Europe versus the
(11:38):
us?
Let's start with that.
Omair Izhar (11:40):
Well, the first and foremost thing is like you need
to have a world clock handy,right?
That's that's the first thingthat you need to
Michael Hartmann (11:46):
Oh my gosh.
This is like, we're recording.
We're recording this shortlyafter.
Uh, we, we at different, indifferent weeks change from
daylight savings time tostandard time, right?
And so I totally understandthat.
Omair Izhar (12:01):
So that's the very first thing.
And, and obviously the otherpiece is, um, you.
Time plays an important part.
When, when we talk about like,uh, and again, we talked about
early, like, like the bondingpiece.
That's, that's kind ofimportant.
But I think, uh, having thatface time, especially if you, if
you look at past two and a halfyears and probably some of the
(12:22):
time we're back as well, likehaving that face time is kind of
super important for, for us,especially in, in swell.
Working with those, um,corporates, again, based out of
us, uh, again, San Fran basedout of uk and then, you know,
eight hours difference.
It can be very, very difficultto manage.
But luckily, um, I've been in,in kind of a, in a hybrid work
(12:44):
for very long time, consideringlike from my early Cisco days.
And how I managed that was, um,you know, again, adjusting my.
Working hours, um, you know,talking especially about my time
at Splunk, I would have time,especially Monday and Friday.
(13:04):
Little bit working with the USalways, and obviously, um,
accommodating, like based on mypersonal life as well.
But yeah, it, it was, it wasmore, more like just like making
sure, like I create ample timefor the team there.
Plus the team was kind of super,um, um, adopted for, for me as
well in a way.
Like they, they might just stepin eight o'clock their time just
(13:25):
to have some time with me again,talking about those complex
projects where there's going tobe a cross collaboration across
the pond.
Which is, which is superimportant.
So yeah, it has to be like, youknow, a bit of flexibility
involved to it.
And again, um, giving ample, uh,prompt time to folks as well.
Otherwise, yeah, think can getlike last minute rush through
(13:48):
which I, I lead the recipe fordisaster.
So, yeah.
Um, having that moment, I thinkdefinitely.
Michael Hartmann (13:56):
Yeah, you mentioned something early in
that when you were answering thequestion about FaceTime, And I
know what, so I'll go back tothe time when I worked for a
company.
It was based in Japan.
We had, generally speaking,right?
Everything was, this was reallypre Zoom even was a big thing.
It was conference calls and um,It was so hard to, to really
(14:19):
work effectively with thosefolks over there and not like,
no one's fault.
Right.
It's just like the, thecommunication was a challenge.
Um, by the way, their, theirEnglish was far better than my
Japanese, like the one word Iknow.
Um, but, so there's that plusthe time difference plus like
the major cultural differences,and it was, it was a, it made a
(14:42):
huge difference.
Going over to Japan and meetingand socializing and working with
them in person, it, it, itreally, really changed how that
relationship worked.
I think even though we weredoing remotely after that, we,
you know, only I do that onceevery year or two.
So do you find the same thingwith, like, do you find it, uh,
(15:05):
that the case regardless ofcountry that you're working
with, or do you find it withcertain countries or certain
regions that it makes more of a.
Omair Izhar (15:13):
Well talking about, you know, uk, us.
No problem.
We speak the same.
Definitely.
But I think it worked quitewell, especially like when I,
uh, joined as, as a me person,you have to understand like the
cultural aspect.
I think this is a really goodpoint that you highlighted the
cultural differences betweenactually within Europe as well,
(15:33):
you know, outside of the Europe,you talk about Middle East for
example, and, and you know,accommodating to that, I think,
um, It definitely makes a, it'sa massive, uh, difference, you
know, understanding thatcultural aspect is super
important.
Like, um, and again, I'm talkingabout, as you mentioned, your
example around Japan.
So I ended up like working quiteclosely with folks in, you know,
(15:57):
middle East and, and, um,Southeast Asia.
It was.
Like total different way ofworking as compared to now just
like more focused around Europe,how you, you know, work with,
for example, my best friend indark region versus you know, my
best friend's in NorthernEurope.
So definitely you have to doquite a lot of tailoring around
how you work with them, how youcommunicate with them.
(16:19):
Um, but yeah, you know, talkingabout us, I think it's perfectly
fine.
I think that they are very,Understandable in terms of like
the culture.
Um, but yeah, again, one of thekey topic that we previously
have discussed was, you know,how us as a Europe kind of work
with U us and I think there isgoing to be a, a, a continuous,
um, conversation around like howwe need to tailor those aspects
(16:43):
for, for Europe.
One fit all, um, doesn't worksometimes, uh, but yeah, having
that, um, I'll call it the, the.
What's the word I'm looking for?
Like it's, it has to be likesuper tailored around like what
we do, for example, region byregion.
And if you don't understandcertain things by talking to
(17:04):
them, then yeah, you won't beable to, um, build the right
processes, build the right wayof communication with them.
So just visiting those regionswould not help.
But yeah, I'm obviously, um,learning.
I think it's a two way, uh,traffic.
You have to continuously learn.
One key thing I think is superimportant, which I find it very,
very helpful within my career aswell.
(17:25):
One of my key managers used tosay that to me, like every time
when you speak to a differentperson and to a different
region, be a Mickey Mouse islike VI is small mouse.
So get to listen more,understand more, and talk less.
And I think it can really,really help you.
Um, which I find it fascinatingstill the present.
Michael Hartmann (17:44):
Yeah, no, I, I think it reminds me of like the
short period of my career when Iwas in, in a sales role, in one
of the, the training, the wentthrough training.
I wasn't ready to be in sales atthat point in my career.
I really wasn't all that greatat it.
But one of the things Iremember, the biggest thing I
remember from the training,Well, there's a couple things,
(18:04):
but the one that really alwaysremember, and I think it applies
across, is that, uh, there waslike this research, like the
best sales people were not theones that we all assume.
Just talk, talk, talk, talk,talk, talk, right?
They actually asked really goodquestions.
And they listen actively and,and then they think of the next
question.
(18:24):
They're not the ones who aretalking, asking a question,
wait, not already.
Like planning on what the nextthing they're gonna say is.
I think that like, I like themMickey Mouse saying like, big
ear, small mouth.
Right?
I heard variations of that.
I think that is such aninsightful thing.
So for people even regardless ofwhether you're working people
across.
Yeah, in, in a certain region orcountry, but also, you know,
(18:45):
across the globe.
That is, I, I love that.
I'm gonna steal that MickeyMouse analogy, so thank you.
Omair Izhar (18:52):
Not a problem.
Yeah, I think it works.
Definitely works.
And I think, as you rightlysaid, like you know, you'll gig
in sales.
You know, one of the key, um, Ishould say like learning from my
career, I think it was earlydays, uh, when I was leaving
Oracle as a part of theacquisition, they actually
offered me to work in sales.
And I said like, you know what,I'm a marketer.
(19:13):
Let, let's give it a go.
And I ended up like sitting inthe sales academy for like
probably two weeks.
And at the end of two weeks Idecided, that that's not going
to be my cup of tea.
But to
Michael Hartmann (19:25):
or, or Oracle.
Oracle is, was a, and probablystill is a sales machine, right?
So,
Omair Izhar (19:31):
Oh my God.
It was, it was nice to be inthat phase.
I think you get to learn quite alot in such a quick amount of
time, but I think I decided atthe end of two weeks, like
that's where I'm not gonnasurvive.
And I think, uh, we all know thereasons behind it.
I'm gonna go into those details.
Michael Hartmann (19:48):
well, so this is a little bit of an aside.
What I will tell you, myexperience also is like I wasn't
really, that wasn't what I wasready to do or made to do,
particularly at that point in mylife and career, but, I will, I
will say it gave me a very goodperspective about how really
hard it is to sell and do itwell.
And so I, as as, especially whenyou get into marketing and
(20:10):
marketing operations, it'sreally easy to discount other,
well, it's easy to do that inany function, but I think
between marketing and sales,right, we like to discount each
other's, um, you know, theamount we add to an
organization.
And I, as much as I am a big fanof marketing and operations, I
think I also understand.
Picking up a phone and calling aprospect and getting hung up on,
(20:32):
um, asking for the, the, thecontract.
Right.
All those things are, they seemeasy, but they're not.
It is a huge ego smack whenthey, you get no's and you get
no's more than you get yeses.
Even the best salespeople wouldtell you that.
Omair Izhar (20:49):
So true.
Yeah.
Definit.
Michael Hartmann (20:52):
All right.
Well, so you mentioned somethingin there.
I, I think I, if I got it right,you know, we were talking about
like, like regional differences.
It, it, this is, I'm a, I'llgive you a for instance that I
think about when I talk topeople when we, I've, I've
worked at companies that want togo from, you know, doing a lot
of stuff in the US or Americaslike US, Canada, and some in
(21:12):
Europe, when they want to moveto other areas.
So, um, do you, do you find, cuzI think, I think of like, I
think a lot of marketers andcompanies think of like, well,
we, there's a lot of'em thinkingabout these major, like you got
the Americas, or maybe you haveNorth America, south America,
you've got Europe, middle East,Africa is all kind of grouped as
one.
(21:32):
Right?
And then AsiaPac.
And then some people, especiallytechnology companies, separate
Japan out from the rest ofAsiaPac.
But what I've, what I've found,or the way I've seen it done is
that like the Americas isgenerally done in the same way,
regardless of state or country.
I think a lot of Americancompanies when they go to
(21:53):
Europe, think of it as ahomogenous kind of place as
well, right?
Unless they're, at least from amarketing standpoint, I don't
think they do if they have feeton the ground for selling.
Cause clearly that matters.
And then I always think of, I'vealways thought of Asia like it's
like a dozen.
Places because there's actuallya lot of differences in how
(22:14):
business is done in Japan versusChina versus Australia versus
you know, Singapore or whatever.
I, I mean, is this yourobservation like, or like how
are you, I guess, especiallywhen you're sell, you're
marketing and doing stuff inEurope for a company that's
based in the US who probably haspeople who think of Europe as
this one big place.
Right?
(22:35):
How are you managing that?
Omair Izhar (22:38):
Okay.
Good question.
So first and foremost, I thinkthere are instances where as.
You pointed out they are folkson the ground, you know, and
obviously they can be your eyesand ears and obviously they are
the first person who's gonnagive you the feedback if this is
going to be the right thing todo for that particular region or
not in case we are not, and Ithink a lot of tests in trial
(22:59):
tend to happen.
Right.
But, and again, you know,considering like certain norms
in, in Europe, like France, ifyou send them English Europe,
They probably will just ignoreit.
And, and same can be set forDock Region apart from like
Swiss, where they probably wouldhave a bit of, um, you know,
(23:21):
click open and, and um, youknow, read, um, you know, stuff
like that.
But in, in terms of adding thatregional taste to it, I think,
um, looking at just Europe onits own, there are massive
differences.
Um, you know, there is a lot ofrespect factor, the, the
language.
Um, how certain things have beenkind of put together, the sense
(23:45):
of respect comes, comes intoplay.
Um, now privacy is another bigthing, especially in Europe,
which has to be like the toppriority, you know?
Um, and again, working in ops,it, it really, um, you know, you
have to like stay on top of somany different things.
Yeah.
GDPR is just one blanket, but atthe same time now, for example,
since the Brexit, like you havehis.
(24:07):
Previous rules.
So you have to keep on likereading those and staying on top
of that.
And when we talk about like,Hey, now working for us, you
have those we'll call as theglobal comps coming in and you
are the person on the groundhave to really work and
coordinate and triage, got a lotof things with your field
marketing teams on the ground.
You have to talk about all thesethings with them.
Hey, there you go.
This is going to be thelanguage.
(24:28):
This is going to be themessages.
Who you gonna target?
How are we gonna target?
How often are you gonna target?
What kind of channels we gonnause it.
And the other expert that comesinto play, and again, this is
sometimes like where ops canbecome super helpful, is like
our territory slightly now, um,into the world of sales as well.
Considering now previously thatfloats into, for example, if
(24:49):
people are using outreach orSalesLoft for their sequences,
like.
We definitely become the voicethere, helping the team define
like, Hey, this has to be toneddown, has to be slightly, you
know, changed based on theregion or the number of touches
you're gonna have becausemarketing in, in the past,
right, have tons of data aroundlike how people respond to
(25:09):
messages, type of messages,types of emails that we sent.
So again, yeah, sales still wantto send emails, but we really
are the right people on theground to work with.
To actually build a bettersequences that actually helped
the team to do conversions, getbetter acceptance of those
messages.
(25:30):
So yeah.
Um, I think it, it's a massive,um, shift since the GDPR comes
into play.
Since, um, now we are workingquite closely with, with, you
know, teams outside of our team,like we call it marketing
operation team.
So yeah, that's definitely.
Regional factor.
There's a lot of other factors,as I said, like previously.
(25:52):
Um, and obviously understandingsometime, you know, especially
like, um, my time at, at Splunkwhen we were talking about, you
know, really complex technicalwords.
So you have to really work withthe folks on the ground just to,
you know, I would call it, notthe dumb it down way, but
actually make it like simplifyso people can understand that
(26:12):
on, on regional level.
Some of those will don't evenexist in certain Aries, for
example.
But yeah.
Um, this is kind of super, I.
Michael Hartmann (26:19):
So are you.
Um, here's what's reallyinteresting to me and then I've
got a follow up.
Maybe I'll do the follow upfirst.
But it's interesting you talkabout the technical terms.
Cause I worked at TexasInstruments for a number of
years and we were, uh, workingon, uh, uh, localizing content.
And the research team that didthe research in, uh, and this
(26:40):
was particular to Asia, uh, Ican't remember it was China or
Japan.
May have been both, but whenthey went over there to see
like, uh, technicaldocumentation, like data sheets
on products, right?
With do we need to translatethose, what was really
interesting is what they foundgoing into people's offices.
They was usually an engineer whowould be in their, in their
office that would literallyprint out the.
(27:02):
Document and then in the marginshad the translations and they
actually didn't want thetranslated content.
Cause I think a lot of us justassumed, oh, they were gonna
want it translated to chin, youknow, one of the Chinese
languages or kaji or, orwhatever.
But in fact, they didn't trustthe translation on technical
information.
(27:22):
It was really fascinating.
So, um,
Omair Izhar (27:26):
You rightly pointed out like we, we decided like
have all this Chinese orJapanese text, all of it and
technical terms, they remain inEnglish.
Right.
So, um, yeah, man.
Again, not to forget like a lotof times the browsers,
especially like they were justusing the machine translations.
Oh my God.
Like, uh, it can be, it can be,yeah.
(27:48):
it can be a.
Michael Hartmann (27:50):
I could get the gist of some stuff by Trent
doing those translates, like,uh, I remember getting, yeah,
replies from people frommarketing emails in other
regions and it would be inwhatever their local language
was.
And I'd like, I don't know whatthis says and I've thrown into a
translate tool and, um, it neverwas.
Never felt like it was quiteright, so, but Okay.
(28:12):
So I'm curious, so you, you, Ibrought up translation, but I
didn't hear you talking abouttranslated content, which was
interesting to me.
Maybe you were implying it therefor regional differences within
the, the continent and all that.
But are, I mean, are you,because I think a lot of us in
the US would think, oh, Youknow, they don't really need it
translated, or we need totranslate it into, you know, say
(28:34):
three major Spanish, French,German, right cover, that'll
cover everybody.
Like, I don't know, like, is it,is translation an important
piece for you there on whenyou're getting stuff or is it
more about, uh, you mentionedsimplify, simplifying the
English content so that it willwork across multiple countries.
Omair Izhar (28:54):
I think it's, it's a, it's a combination of both.
And I think you right, youpointed out I was, you know, in
talking about regionalization, Ithink I was meant to include
that translation component aswell.
It can.
One of our, you know, biggestsuccesses as well is it can
become the bottom neck as well.
And I think most of the dailysare kind of related to
localization and translation.
So, um, yeah, I think there,there's a combination of two
(29:17):
things, right?
There's, uh, simplified Englishthat has been kind of, you know,
kind of tailored to use.
I outside of the, you know, theAmericas as such.
Um, a lot of time, you know,This can be the right route.
Um, and then again, it, it, canbe instances like that where,
um, you know, and again, certaincountries, especially in
(29:41):
mainland Europe, they would notopen up emails based on their
subject lines.
But overall, we have seen, like,if it's been like really nicely
written and tailored accordingto mainland Europe, They have a
really good success rate.
Yes, of course localization willcome into play because there's
going to be a massive ask,especially around dark region
because, you know, the sense ofrespect and, and localization, I
(30:04):
think is kind very, you know, gohand in hand is very important
for them.
Um, there, there have beeninstances in my short career as
well where I've seen like, hey,localization becomes like a big.
Block pen and everyone'sbackside in a way, like by the
time localization comes in, Ithink the ship has sailed and
the campaign won't even go live.
(30:24):
Um, and again, it totallydependent on the complexity as
well.
So, and again, combination ofsimplicity and making sure,
like, you know, when we aregoing for localization and, you
know, speed to execute is, issuper important for that.
So, yeah.
And again, instances like thecompanies I work with, they kind
of, you know, split Europe intotier one and tier two countries
(30:46):
considering like everyone, likewhere their most box are coming
from.
So prioritizing is this superimportant and, and making sure,
like, I think.
Us as marketing ops and I thinkwe, we play multiple, uh, roles,
especially in Europe and again,working for, for US companies,
we've become like projectmanagers as well.
In many instances.
(31:06):
I've done this thing, um, youknow, role multiple times where
I am the one who's coordinatingthe efforts in terms of making
sure, like we.
We create those formats whichare quick to localize and quick
to convert back into theoriginal formats.
So, you know, back in the, wetend to have those Excel files
to a point, like now we arecoming to a point, we have
(31:27):
sophisticated dams.
Ideally they're doing the samefunctions and now the
connectivity makes things supereasy for us to.
Push and publish stuff directlyinto our marketing automation
and CMSs and and stuff likethat, which obviously helps us a
lot as an ops person becausespeed is every single thing that
helps us to execute and we haveto.
(31:48):
Work across the region, andagain, America being one like,
but here we have again,different time zones as well,
just like us, right?
But we have to give timeseparately to just give an
example down region, not, um,Northern Europe.
And then we have SouthernEurope, and then if we extend
down to south, um, you know,again, Eastern Europe as well,
things are done slightlydifferently.
So yeah, the, these are all thefactors which, which come in.
(32:12):
Regardless of methods, you justwanted to, you know, take them
as, as priority one, country'spriority, two countries or, you
know, rest of the Europe as wecall it.
So it is, it is important.
Um, but yeah, it is vital thatas a part of the process, as, as
you becoming the PM youcoordinate all those efforts
together.
Sometime you actually drive thewhole team forward as well,
(32:35):
considering like if it's a, is akey thing to deliver.
You make sure like everyonewho's responsible for doing
certain jobs in order to, youknow, make the whole program
successful, they do thingsrightly in a timely manner.
Michael Hartmann (32:48):
Yeah, so I think what I took away from that
is if you are, you're in aposition where you or your team
is thinking about doinglocalized content, whether it's
emails or Atlantic pages or webcontent, whatever it is that,
um, I.
You, you need to allow ampletime for the translation and
review and QA of it, because ifyou don't right, then you're,
(33:10):
you're putting yourself at riskor, or you need to then decide,
you know, if that's, if that'snot enough, if you don't have
enough time for that, do youstill go to market with
something that you have that isin English?
Um, right.
Or whatever language you startwith, um, which makes sense.
I mean, I, I like you, I mean,every place I've seen
translation, even if there is a,one of these translation engines
(33:34):
that gets smarter as youfeedback the corrections, um,
there's, I, I have never found,I've not found a place that is
comfortable with just trustingthat without having somebody
within the company.
Right, or somebody that knowsthat space.
So you might hire an individualcontract or something, but which
you're right, it slows it down,particularly if it's de detailed
(33:56):
content.
Omair Izhar (33:58):
Of course, and I think it is, um, right to call
out.
Right?
Um, when we talk about marketingoperations roles and how they
kind of transform into roles inEurope as, as I mentioned
earlier, like you becoming thePM role.
But another thing that I, Ithink like we, we wear multiple
hats is like, I consider ourroles become like, um, you know,
(34:21):
PM on different levels.
Like we become marketingmanagers at certain instances as
well, right?
Um, as, as we always have thosenew product launches or new
program launches, now we have aseat on those calls.
And the important factor thereis like the, you know, creating
the preparedness level furtherdown.
So, for example, it's a bigprogram being launched and
obviously the aspect is alwaysabout, Hey, let's discuss.
(34:45):
Reach, like where are we gonnatarget them?
Obviously outside of themainland America is just Europe,
okay?
For us, it's like we, we are theone raising hand.
Hey, if we need to look atthese, we have to really factor
in the localization aspects.
And what that meant is like ifwe are meant to launch on, just
give an example, 1st of March,we need to give at at least, you
(35:07):
know, three to four weeks.
Prepare time of localization.
And again, as you're right, yousaid human factor will come into
way because someone has toeyeball it, like making sure
like the, the sentences areended correctly.
The um, um, the prefixes arekind of localized in the right
(35:28):
way.
You know, last name was kind ofused in every way, whereas
Germany, we need to make surelike it's been, you know, set up
correctly.
So yeah, it has to be.
You know, that particular rolewhere we actually become key
individuals who actually workwith those corporate teams,
product teams or whatever it is,to make sure, like we, we build
those project management, thewhole program.
(35:50):
Otherwise, yeah, as we write,said, Hey, if you're launching
it, like we are launching inpiecemeal, right?
The English goes first and thenthe rest of the language is
coming second.
So this is, this is kind of veryimportant.
And again, especially for bottlelaunches, it's super critical,
uh, and.
Our marketing, um, programmanager hat will come into play
(36:11):
massively every day in makingsure, like we have active
conversation with pretty mucheveryone within the organization
and outside of the organizationwhere we are working with
localization agencies.
Michael Hartmann (36:23):
Yeah, that's, that's so true.
So for our listeners who haven'tgone through dealing with that,
someone comes to you and says,you wanna do localized content,
can't you just throw it inGoogle translate?
No, you can't.
Like, you can, you can, butyou're probably not, you're
gonna end up regretting it.
Um,
Omair Izhar (36:41):
and, and back in the days, right, we, we tend to
have those Excel files.
And again, considering like, uh,if you need to convert those
things back into landing pagesor emails or, uh, now sequences
in your outreach platforms, youdon't speak that language.
I have to really coordinatethat, like what need to replace
what it, it's just, that'sincredible.
And, and back in the days if youtalk about like how those.
(37:06):
How things, you know, make yourlife difficult.
Consider like someone from Spainor Italy or any other country
will come, Hey, this, there's anerror in this line and for you,
every single thing is Jewishanyway.
Right?
So I'm gonna change what, so,you know, having those things,
and again, you have to, youknow, not be a rocket scientist
to understand how to actuallymanage that.
(37:27):
But I think, as I said, youbecome that PM who actually
handle those expectations in theright.
you need to come up with thosecreative ways to make sure, like
what were you trying to achieveactually resonate with everyone
within those projects.
Um, otherwise you're building arecipe for disaster.
Michael Hartmann (37:45):
Yeah, I it.
Well, and then there's also justnuances of local.
I don't even know what the wordis, but like phrases that you,
we just use and just assume, saythe US people know, like there
was one, I wanna say it was somevariant of like 24 7 that if we
used it in Japan, apparently itwas actually like a really
(38:07):
negative thing.
I'm probably getting itcompletely wrong, like what
there was, but there wassomething very much like that.
Something that we would normallyuse in the US to represent like
how available we are, or itwould've been general.
Interpret it as a good thing.
And it was like the opposite inthis other region, and it was,
thankfully we had somebody therewho had told us, right, you
(38:28):
can't use that.
But those are like notranslation engine's gonna
really pick that up.
Omair Izhar (38:34):
No, I think.
That's so true.
And again, uh, that's why a lotof now new companies that, you
know, in the back end, the daysused to be only sdl.
And again, I don't get no favorsfrom them by saying that, but
you know, um, as, as you rightlycalled out, like it used to be
like very much a human based,like localization at that time
(38:56):
to point, like now we have fewnew, um, players in, in the.
Um, which, which talk aboutlike, those AI based, um,
localization and, and actuallythey get, you know, all these
things like easily picked up.
Um, they flag, uh, you know,information like that over to
you and obviously you can decidelike what actions you're gonna
(39:17):
take.
So I think the technology isdefinitely helping us a lot in
terms of moving in the rightdirection, simplify things for
us.
Um, and again, it has good andbad to it, but I see definitely,
you know, Technology isdefinitely helping us massively
where we have to deal with somany different use cases along
(39:38):
the same time within Europe andoutside of the Europe,
especially where languages areconcerned.
Michael Hartmann (39:44):
Well, so let's, let's switch gears a
little bit.
So if I remember right in ourearlier conversation, you have a
team that has actuallydistributed, not just in Europe,
but I think in other regionsaround the world, right?
Is that correct?
Omair Izhar (39:58):
Um, that's correct.
At, at as Splunk.
We had team pretty much startedall around global, especially
focused on us actually likefollow the sun movement and
obviously we have folks in, inPAC as well.
Um, my role at Aley, obviously,you know, we are remote first
company, so we had team prettymuch started it all around.
(40:19):
Um, my team is pretty much like.
Everywhere.
Like sometimes they are inSpain, sometimes they are
sitting in, in sunny Dubai.
So yeah, it, it is the case.
Michael Hartmann (40:30):
What, so what are some, you know, some of your
lessons learned over the yearsthat you could share with our
listeners about?
You know, uh, particularly thoseare either working with or
managing teams are distributed,uh, across, you know, pretty
wide swaths of the, of theworld.
Omair Izhar (40:47):
Um, good question.
I think one of the key thingswhich.
In my view can be the biggestsuccess, uh, when you're
building team.
I think it's, it's that, um, theopenness, uh, within your team.
I think I like to be managed.
Uh, you know, like the way Imanage my team is the same way I
like to be managed, so I thinkthat's something which I, um,
have applied massively within,within my teams as well.
(41:09):
Obviously people talk about, youknow, accountability, like, you
know, having so many differentproject management tools and,
and stuff like that.
Um, I, I think they are good forus in terms of helping us, but I
think the success lies when,when we are managing those
remote, uh, remote teams and,and again, teams sitting in
different times.
Is continuous communication andcollaboration.
(41:32):
Um, what I found really helpfulis some sort of, um, visual
platform, which really helps theteam.
Um, one of the key ones,obviously, I, I use Asana
massively in, you know, from myearly days to now, I switched
over to use of mirror.
(41:53):
That has been a life changer interms of how we put our efforts
together, collaborate together,how we actually get our work
done together.
Um, again, this is superimportant.
Now, again, managing thoseteams, I think.
You have to build quite a lot ofpersonal bonds with the team.
I think one of the key thing, Ithink my team would laugh at it
(42:14):
if they get to listen to thispodcast.
They used to call me a motherlyfigure within, within the team
considering like, I care and Isuper care my team because, um,
especially wellbeing of yourteam members is super important.
Like if they are, and again, I'mnot gonna use the word like
properly looked after, but if itis kind of very real, like if
(42:35):
they.
Lists been listened all thetime.
They've been like actively, youknow, asked about like, you
know, what they think about ourteam, our management style, you
know, other teams which kind ofwork with us.
They will become like, you know,real core members of your team.
(42:55):
They will actually go out of theway and actually do things like
we have all these instances.
We have, you know, Last minutechanges.
We have those fire drills, wehave those things just going p
shape.
Like they will actually, youknow, step in and actually do
things, which I call itmiracles, right?
Um, if you don't look afterthem, if you don't speak to
(43:17):
them, if you don't have thatfactor built into it, and again,
it is important that you havethat one to one and actually one
to many kind of a bond inbetween the teams.
Yeah.
Otherwise the there is, there'snever going to be a success.
One thing which I always talk tomy team is like, there's no, I,
there's always a, we, you know,um, we as a team compliment each
(43:39):
other.
Right.
Um, I obviously, like, I've beenin, in this role for quite some
time, but I see my younger teammembers who actually bring in 10
of, um, skill set, which I don'thave it.
And, and we all compliment eachother.
But yeah, again, we, we listento each other a lot.
We learn from each other a lot.
(44:00):
Um, other successes, which Ifound like managing teams like
that is, is I call itdownloading information, right?
As in, in simple way, likedocument every single thing,
like tips and tricks as we mighthave learned throughout your
career.
Um, luckily, like I tend tostore quite a lot of things on
my Google Drive, so what I do islike if, when I move roles, I
bring those kind of knowledge,customize it based on my role,
(44:22):
and make sure I communicate withthe team as well.
You know, if they don'tunderstand certain things, I'll
make sure I, you know, spendtime with them talking with
those changes.
And likewise.
If I get to, you know, seesomething like incredibly happen
by like, done by certain teammembers, I make sure like they
have been recorded.
Like, and, and it's been sharedall across the team as well.
One thing, which I find, I thinkthe success of team lies in
(44:46):
that, like, not tying your handaround things, but actually
opening it up so people canlearn from you.
Um, and again, it's, it's, youknow, you don't see that, you
know, effect straight away, butyou will see that you.
Compounding massively.
Like the way you start sharingthings, what you know with
others, they will get to pickthat up and share further more.
(45:07):
I think that is what I found inops world, especially, like what
you guys have been doing is thesame thing.
The knowledge that you guyshave, you've been sharing your
lacrosse, so it's, it's, it'svalid within the team as well.
Whatever you have learned, youjust continuously share, and
this is where I see people,people will start building
those, you know, motioncontinuously.
You will see that impact.
(45:28):
When they, you know, your teammember will go in and work for
another team, they will startdoing the same thing, like all
the good habits that they havelearned in your team.
So, yeah, openness is superimportant.
Not keeping your hands tiedaround things is, is super
important.
And one thing, which I alwayshighlighted with my team, like
back in the days, people tend tohave this thing like around, you
(45:49):
know, the stuff, the processes,I, I, I kind of simply
highlighted them, Hey, I createdup my replicates, I create my.
Replaceable because, you know,this is where I think this, you
know, the learning will come in,but this is where the successes
will come in.
So yeah, let's just not restrictyourself into just one thing,
open up share, and you'll see,um, you know, really, really
(46:12):
awesome stuff happening.
Michael Hartmann (46:14):
Uh, it, it's, um, I feel like I could have
just been saying a lot of thesame things cuz I, I think I,
cuz I've had distributed teamsnot as widely distributed as
yours, I think for a while.
And I've found that I'll, I'llparaphrase a little bit right.
That, that, um, Manage the wholeperson.
Right?
So not just their work.
You know, it's like, cuz I thinkit's just unrealistic that
(46:36):
people can separate work inprivate life.
Right?
You know, that doesn't mean youpry or, or do, but if, if
someone's struggling and yourecognize it, right.
Being aware of that and beingthere to support however they
want.
Um, but also, um, to me it's alot about building trust, right?
So sharing information.
I think if you share as much asyou can, Uh, uh, that when the
(47:01):
time comes where they may askyou something, you say, I just
don't know, or I'm not able toshare because of what a reason
you built the trust.
They're like, you would share ifyou could.
And, um, so I, I think that's areally important one.
I think your point aboutcomplimenting each other and be
working together as a team to besuccessful.
(47:21):
Totally agree with that, right?
I think there's.
Uh, a lot of value ofunderstanding your, your blind
spots along with like what otherthings that your other, the rest
of your team brings to thetable.
And then being humble enough toask for help when you have to,
you know, work with your, thatarea of your.
Responsibility that doesn'treally take advantage of your
(47:44):
strengths.
Right.
So, um, I think all this stuffthat you just talked about, like
every one of those, not only doI think that works, I think it's
super, it's almost absolutelyrequired when you've got a
distributed remote team.
I think it works just as wellwith people in person, but you
could probably get away with alittle bit less of that because
(48:04):
that, yeah, that direct humanconnection in face to face time.
You know, you get the advantageof body language, all body
language, not just, you know,you know, neck up.
Right.
So, um, yeah, so it, it's funnybecause we actually just
recently made a, within our, uh,leadership team at the company I
(48:26):
met, we was like, we're gonnacommit to, cuz we were getting
outta the habit of not being oncamera on, and we have a widely
distributed team, like not beingon camera and we're like, Let's,
like, let's all agree that we'regonna try do our best, we're
gonna be on camera, uh, andwe're gonna do, be on camera
with as much of our body as wecan, right?
Because so much of it is, well,you, our listeners can't see
(48:47):
like, I'm using my hands rightnow.
Right?
So like, hands, mood, you know,facial features, all that stuff
is so huge in building the, theconnections.
Anyway, uh, we could probably goon a whole long about, about
that, but that's like, I'mreally glad to hear that.
Like, actually what's comfortingto me is that your take on that
(49:08):
with a completely probablydifferent set of people, a
different regions of the world,like I think that translates
because it's a human naturething.
Omair Izhar (49:17):
Of course, and.
Is just not that human nature.
I think you, as you, right?
You said the body, um, your handgestures, your oral, you know,
expressions.
I think, you know, it, it playsa massive role.
One thing right now, I'msitting, um, on my chair, but I
generally, you know, stand upmost of the time so people will
see me like walking back and,you know, having a gesture.
(49:37):
I think it's important.
One thing, which I, I think isimportant, as you talked about,
trust, um, I made.
We just have those, you know,zoom meetings, but at the same
time, we'd have no, you know,zoom meeting with no cameras on,
like where I asked my team tobe, Hey, let's just have a voice
call only, and for, for thatparticular call, you need to get
(49:58):
out of your office as well.
Like if you are especiallyworking remotely to, to ensure
that, you know, We have the timeto look at what's happening all
around us.
Like, you know, the weather isgood, just make sure you get
little bit of sun.
And obviously, um, for all ourpretty much team discussions
like that, you know, it's, it'sbeen allocated like every month
we do minimum one call likethat, where we spend good 30 to
(50:21):
40 minutes just like that, likeno camera, but.
We've been out and about and,and do things.
And again, as I said, like whenyou have been out and about
ideas flows in, and that itactually helped us massively in
terms of doing the things peoplenot thought about it.
So,
Michael Hartmann (50:36):
I've, worked at a place where we, this was
bef pre covid where we didwalking meetings.
Omair Izhar (50:41):
it helped right?
Michael Hartmann (50:45):
definitely.
Ideas flowing.
Whoa.
Um, wow.
I, there's so much more I wannaask you, but like, let's, let's,
we're gonna have to wrap it up.
Why don't we just do, I'll leaveit open to you a little bit and
that, is there anything that wehaven't covered that you would
want to share with ourlisteners?
About working with remote teams,working as a a, especially for
(51:05):
our listeners who are maybe inthe US and working with
colleagues who are in otherparts of the world.
Right?
What are you, what are thingsyou'd want them to remember, uh,
when they're working with thosefolks that they may not be
thinking about or understandabout what it's like to be on
that other side of that sort ofreceiving end of here's a new,
here's new, uh, you know,marketing communications plan.
Omair Izhar (51:28):
Yeah, I think the way I would like to.
Highlight, I think as a part oflearning is, um, talk.
That's, that's important factor.
The other piece is celebratetogether, right?
It's just not your successes,but considering working with,
um, a diverse team as we alltalk about it, I think celebrate
(51:48):
their locals celebrations.
Like, you know, you don't have.
We have als, we have so manylocal festivals, you know, have
that thing factor in because youwill learn a lot from it, right?
So yeah, it just opens up somany different things.
Like we, you know, I introducedwhere your local dress day, you
(52:10):
know, something, which I findlike funny at the same time is
like interesting as well.
Um, but yeah, I think this, thisreally helps.
Um, it, it.
In a way like it breaking theice, it let people open up and
obviously build bonds.
You know, we all are like afamily.
This is where we spend most ofour time outside of our, you
(52:31):
know, close family.
So make more bonds, you know,have more conversations because
ideally you, you know, this willactually get you.
Where you want it to be, youknow, network, you know, and as,
as you rightly said earlier,raises hand where you don't know
something, you know, ask forhelp, really need help.
Um, but yeah, enjoy, um, I thinkcelebrate and have more fun at
(52:54):
work and, uh, and just be readyto, you know, continuously help
others.
Because this is where you willsee, um, you.
out of blue, people will step inand help you out of trouble.
You know, not considering likewe are going through a very
tough time.
People will step in and, youknow, amazing things like, you
(53:16):
know, I know for sure recentlywith all the layoffs and stuff
happening, people aren't comingout of the way and then helping
people out, like especially opsand outside of ops, um, to get
into new roles.
You know, some of the folkswhich I have previously worked
be like they are mentoring,right?
So it is, it is important, likeopen up, just, you know, just
(53:37):
know someone who just like, youknow, we living the silo.
Open up and let people come intothat circle.
It's going to be super importantfor your success.
Michael Hartmann (53:44):
Yeah, so remember the Mickey Mouse
analogy, right?
Big ears,
Omair Izhar (53:50):
Of course.
Michael Hartmann (53:50):
mouth.
And I, I think maybe this iswhat you were getting at with
like, uh, celebrate together.
All this is like, I think it'sreally easy for us to focus on
efficiency of say, meetings andnot leave space for building
those connections.
And I do think it's reallyvaluable to have some time built
in for, for a lot of those,which, you know, I think a lot
(54:14):
of people, you know, who look atops people or think we're
looking at, you know,optimization and efficiency and
why would we want to do that orwe, but I am.
Like, to your point, right?
I mean, you can build that trustwith people.
They will, they will then, um,pay it back when it, when the
time comes.
Omair Izhar (54:32):
Of course.
Yeah.
And um, Human factor, you know,always think about others as
human first and then youremployee or your team member.
Secondly, and I think we havelearned that in like past two
and a half years when we went inlockdown and, you know, stuff
like that.
People have issues and you knowhow people have dealt with it.
(54:53):
So.
Yeah.
Um, and again, I, I always thinklike human bust, um, helps, and
again, it fits in quite nicelywith the marketing as well,
right.
Because you know how it.
Michael Hartmann (55:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
All right, well, Amer, this hasbeen a fun conversation.
I could, we could go on forhours I think.
Um, cuz there's a lot, I think,where we overlap on our
philosophies, but if folks dowant to keep up with you or
connect with you or learn fromyou more, what's the best way
that they can do?
Omair Izhar (55:21):
Um, I am on LinkedIn and Twitter, so my
LinkedIn is Omair doar and um,at Twitter you can find me at
Omair tweets.
I think these are the two keyones, which I generally use, but
obviously, you know, you guyscan definitely help me connect
with further folks as well.
(55:42):
If someone is looking to have aconversation with me.
Um, you know, if they arelooking at some of the things
like how to build teams and,and, you know, build empathy
factors.
So yeah, I love to connect.
Um, but yeah, I, I.
It's a great platform that youguys have provided to, I don't
know, hundreds and thousands ofops professional.
(56:02):
So yeah, stay connected.
Keep on listening to, um,Michael and rest of the team.
I think you will get to learnquite a lot from it.
So yeah, touche, share to youguys, and I wish you many, many
successes.
Michael Hartmann (56:14):
Well, you, you're too kind.
But th and thank you.
So thank you for joining us.
Thanks for sharing that.
Thanks for the, the, the kindwords.
But, and then thanks to ourlisteners, uh, for continuing to
support us.
If, again, we're always lookingfor ideas for topics or, or
guests, um, including if that'ssomething that you wanna do.
So definitely get ahold of me orMike Rizzo.
(56:36):
Or Amy Lou.
We're on LinkedIn.
We're on the, uh, marketingops.com platform.
So, Thank you for everyone.
Until next time, we'll talk toyou later.
Bye.
Omair Izhar (56:47):
Thank you.
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