April 28, 2024 • 38 mins
This episode is a call to action—a reminder to look beyond ourselves and our immediate circles, to extend kindness to strangers, and to recognize the humanity in everyone we meet. It is a prompt to practice compassion and to understand that, in doing so, we not only transform the lives of others but also ourselves.
In our fast-paced world, where time often feels like a scarce commodity, the episode also touches on the concept of divine intervention in our schedules. Nora discusses her belief that God can manipulate time, a notion that invites listeners to consider the role of spirituality in managing the demands of daily life. The takeaway is clear: our lives are not just about the tasks we complete but also about the relationships we nurture and the love we spread along the way.
The conversation gracefully transitions into the realm of hospitality. Hospitality is not confined to grand gestures; it is found in the simple act of making someone feel seen and valued, whether it's within the confines of a home or the casual encounters at a local store. In a world that often seems dominated by division and negativity, it is these acts of kindness and the intentional creation of a welcoming space that can sow the seeds of a more compassionate community.
The hope of this podcast is that our stories and insights will resonate with the listeners, inspiring them to carry the message of kindness, hospitality, and generosity forward in their own actions. This podcast episode is an exploration of the human condition and a testament to the transformative power of simple acts of kindness.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nancy (00:01):
Wow, season five is here.
I am so excited that you'rehere with us on Ordinary People,
Extraordinary Things, whereyour story is his glory.
Thank you so much for sharingOrdinary People, Extraordinary
Things with your friends andyour family.
Thank you for visiting onInstagram, Facebook and X.
Thank you for giving us afive-star review on any of the
(00:24):
platforms you listen to.
We are so thankful that you arefinding faith and hope in this
podcast and we're thankful thatyou are sharing the word about
Ordinary People, ExtraordinaryThings.
We couldn't do it without you.
Well, welcome to OrdinaryPeople, Extraordinary Things.
I'm here with my friend, Nora.
Nora, thank you, Thank you.
Nora (00:45):
Nancy, I'm so excited to be here with you today.
Very, really, I'm honored.
Nancy (00:51):
Oh, thank you.
So a little backstory on Noraand I.
We have known each other for along time, but my most favorite
thing that we've ever done is wewent to India together.
Nora (01:01):
Oh, my gosh, that was like the best experience ever.
I know that mutualtransformation, but even
friendships and how we hungtogether and those experiences
that we have, they kind of bond,you don't they?
Nancy (01:13):
It changes your relationship, yeah.
Nora (01:14):
It does.
I mean traveling to foreigncountries.
I think we figured it out.
We did 21,000 miles between allthe flights, inter-country
flights and train rides.
You remember the train rides,or you know I'm talking about
like all the stuff.
Nancy (01:27):
Everything, it was everything, yeah, yeah.
So we got to see just amazingthings, hard things go into
brothels, I mean, and so thosethings.
They change you.
Oh, to be with someone that,like I said, it's just a shared
experience.
A shared experience.
Nora (01:46):
Oh no, it was epic, and I would do it all over again.
Nancy (01:49):
Yeah, I'm so glad that I got to experience that Me too,
me too.
Yeah.
So if someone doesn't know you,three words or phrases to
describe yourself.
Oh, my goodness, that was likeone of the hardest ever.
Nora (02:01):
It's like well, how would I describe myself?
Somebody else describe me,please, right, okay, so here's
the three that I came up with.
I even asked my husband, like,what do you think of these?
He's always yep.
Nancy (02:10):
I would say I'm loyal.
Nora (02:11):
Yes, I'm a truth speaker.
I'm a terrible talk texter.
You are Nora the worst talktexter and it's phonetic, and
the problem is is I don't edit,so you just send it.
Yeah, I apologize if you'veever got a text from me and
there you go.
And then the last one bevisionary.
Nancy (02:30):
That is good, I like those.
I like those so years ago, andI don't know if you even
remember this conversation, butit really hit me that we were
talking about time and like howdo you have time to do this or
that?
And you just said that youthought that God could do
anything with time, and like hecould give you more hours, or if
(02:54):
he like, if he created time, hecould do whatever he wanted
with it.
True, could you kind of sharethat, because maybe I just
butchered it.
No, you didn't.
Nora (03:04):
Actually, it's true, I believe our God is so big that
he can do anything, and Iremember being up to my neck in
like work and ministry andpersonal life, and I was just
like God.
I know I have to choose andhave boundaries, but I also
really need more hours in theday because I have these
commitments.
And I remember praying.
I'm like God, I know you're nota drive-through, Can I have
(03:25):
five more minutes?
Can I have 10 more minutes?
However, I was like I wouldjust like to be able to finish
these things, and what I foundout as I've been praying for
that is, at the end of the day,somebody would actually say to
me hey, did you get all thatstuff done on your list?
I'm like, yeah, I did that byone o'clock.
And they're like there's no waysomebody physically could
actually do that.
And what wound up happening isit became a continual recurring
(03:48):
thing that God allowed.
It was a gift, it was favor,and I totally believe it.
To this day, God still gives memore time to manage multiple
things.
And the thing is, you guys,this is totally not me, this is
God, because there's no wayphysically that I could do this.
And if you measure it out and Igave you the list that a human
(04:08):
being could.
So that's supernatural andthat's God giving you that.
Here you go, go do it, go do it.
So I believe in miracles, Ibelieve he's a giant God and I
don't know if everybody's abeliever.
It doesn't happen to everybody.
Nancy (04:24):
But for me it's happened.
I love that.
Yeah, that's kind of marked meand that's been such a long time
ago.
But when I've said yes to somethings that I was like, yeah, I
can go take this meal to thisperson and I did not have time
in my day to make a meal orbring it, but I did and I was
(04:49):
like that's what Nora wastalking about was like I felt
like I needed to do this and Ididn't have the time, but yes,
somehow I did have the time.
Nora (04:57):
Well, and what I love about that is like sometimes
even we don't ask God allows it,because you're doing something
for him or he's going to beglorified in it so it's like and
then that realization and yougiving him credit for it, that's
pretty awesome.
Nancy (05:09):
Yeah, yeah, so that was just a little little snippet of
the fun we're going to havechatting about today.
So for you I know that'ssomething that you're really
passionate about is kindness,yes, or hospitality, or you
could probably say it a milliondifferent ways Right right.
So why are you passionate aboutthis?
(05:33):
Why am I passionate aboutkindness?
Nora (05:36):
Well, first of all, it's a commandment, fruits of the
spirit.
You know, we should be kind,love one another as we love
ourselves, and what I've learnedthrough my lifetime, especially
for my mom, is that heapingcoals is the most important
thing you can do, because itchanges people's lives, no
matter how they treat you.
We're responsible for ourbehavior.
So from the time I was younger,that's been something that's
happened, even from I call mymom and go, this person hates me
(05:59):
and blah, blah goes.
Okay, then pray for him.
You can only be responsible foryour behavior and your answer
for your behavior and youranswer for your behavior with
God, and so it always helped me,you know, and to remember also
that everybody has a story andthere's a reason they're feeling
that way.
And if we enter in withkindness in spite of that, a lot
of times it brings theirshields down and all of a sudden
it changes their heart, andI've seen it over and over and
(06:23):
over throughout my lifetime andit's not always easy.
I'm not gonna lie and go.
Oh, I'm a Mary Poppins ofkindness that is not true, um?
but there have been times I'vebeen reminded um, not just for
my mom, but mentors, and, andit's something, it's a learned
thing too, you know, and I think, being um in ministry a long
time, we've got to remember todo that, and I'm not perfect at
(06:45):
it, I've got to say thatpublicly, but I've seen the
results of it.
Nancy (06:48):
So I feel like something we hear a lot is like acts of
kindness or random acts ofkindness or kindness matters and
they're kind of like littlethings that get thrown out every
once in a while.
Nora (07:01):
Um, you know like social media or just you know but do
you think that it actually doesmatter?
Oh, absolutely A quick story.
My mother-in-law absolutelyhated my guts when I started
dating Don this is for reals andwe love each other now just
giving you a heads up.
But when we first started shebasically was like she's not the
(07:23):
right person for you.
He's an only child and ofcourse, you know I'm not I'm not
a parent, but I imagine thatwas like they have to be the
perfect person for my son and Iwould call my mom, my mother, my
future mother-in-law hates me.
You know what am I going to do?
And she's like Nora, you justbe you and love her well, no
matter what she says and does.
And it took two years of heapingcoals, praying for her, being
(07:45):
kind, no matter what, and shewas constantly on Dawn, this is
not the right person.
Why are you marrying her?
She even went as far as to saywe're going to disown you if you
marry her.
And I don't want to saysomething bad about her because
the woman is amazing, ah,freaking amazing.
Love the woman.
But I can understand her,loving her, her son, but the
(08:07):
kindness God allowed me to be inher life in spaces that she
needed me and she wound upwriting me a letter and said I'm
so sorry.
You are the right person andafter spending time with you,
I'm I just.
I love you, just like I love myson.
It was like the most beautifulletter, two years of hard, but
on the other hand, this is anexample of keeping coals and
being kind.
(08:27):
And then I wound up in anamazing relationship with her oh
, wow so that's an example.
I love that.
Nancy (08:34):
I love that.
I love that so much.
I've heard you talk abouthospitality before, and when I
think about hospitality, Imostly just think of, like,
going to a hotel.
Okay, is what I think of.
What does hospitality have todo with the Christian walk?
Nora (08:56):
Oh, my goodness, this is such a big question.
I could talk about this for aweek, a month, a year.
I believe hospitality iseverything that you do Like.
When people walk into your homelike this is how I look at
hospitality Do they feel likethey're welcomed, like even in a
party?
Okay, we all feel like middleschoolers when we show up at a
(09:17):
social event if we don't knowanybody or don't know half the
people.
Even when we know people, ifwe're the last person to walk in
the door, we get this angst ofoh no, what if the hostess or
you as a person immediatelypulled them in?
Oh, I'm so glad you're here.
This is awesome.
You know that kind of stuff.
That's being aware of people'sfeelings.
(09:38):
And then also to me,hospitality is making people
feel so welcome that they leaveand go.
Wow, I want to do that myself.
And like in your home, do youput yourself out and do you do
more or better?
Or are you thinking, or is itmore like, oh, you're checking
the box, but it's not just inyour home.
How about when you're out withpeople?
(09:59):
How about just saying hello topeople in the grocery store?
Just saying hello to people inthe grocery store.
Hospitality to me is everythingthat you do and are aware for
other people to make them feelcomfortable.
Okay, church, I know I've beenthe guest services director for
years, but the thing is, one ofthe things that came out with my
boss at the time was like let'smake them feel the same way as
(10:22):
if they were entering into yourhome.
What does that feel like?
I love that thought becausewhat it means is, when they come
in, we're like not only arethey welcome, can I get you a
cup of coffee?
How are you?
I want to hear your story.
I have heard hundreds andhundreds of people's stories and
it was a cool opportunity tohear people's story but also
that feeling of people beingseen and heard.
So hospitality to me is peoplefeel seen, heard, valued, valued
(10:46):
and treated so special theycan't even forget about it.
Nancy (10:51):
So like kindness, Like, kindness.
Nora (10:55):
It keeps coming up, doesn't it?
Oh, my word.
Nancy (10:59):
Do you think that we see less kindness in the world?
You think that we see lesskindness in the world or are we
just kind of really negative,like in the just just general?
You know new united states, youknow where we're I just feel
like we have so much angst andwe have so much division and we
(11:20):
have so much unkindness?
do you think that's right, thatis real?
Or is it just that we're toldthat so often or we see it Like,
or we kind of get drawn to thatinstead of getting drawn to the
good?
Am I making any sense?
I do.
Nora (11:37):
I think it's again.
I got to say I think it's whatyou're looking for.
Are you looking for all thenegative?
And a positive can change anegative.
Like I've been just in a storeand I let somebody that has less
things than me go in front ofme and they're like are you
serious?
I'm like, yeah, I'm not in anybig hurry at all.
I hope you're having a greatday and immediately there's that
(11:58):
you can feel the angst off ofthem change.
I do think there is a lot ofnegativity and a lot of angst,
and I think it just culturally.
Right now there's so manythings to worry about and people
are worried about paying theirbills and taxes and war and
politics and what's going tohappen.
And I'm taking care of olderparents oh, my kids are
struggling and I think all ofthat weighs people down.
I can imagine everybody's gottheir things that weigh them
(12:20):
down.
So, consequently, when we focuson only the negative, we can't
get out of the forest throughthe trees.
Nancy (12:27):
That's just the bottom line.
Nora (12:29):
I find like I've got a circumstance going on right now
and I'm trying to have joy in itand I'm not trying to be false
about it.
But I also think there's amindset of what is three steps
look ahead of you If you've gotsome faith, if you've got a
positive attitude and again, Iam not Pollyanna, I am not a
(12:49):
Mary Poppins, but I also see thevalue in positivity.
Negativity doesn't help any ofus.
We lose sleep, right.
We're not living in peace.
I think God tells us we got tolive in peace and have joy in
the hard times too.
But generally, culturally, whatI see around and I run, run
around a lot is a lot of sadness.
People got their heads down.
I love my cell phone, but wegot our heads in our cell phones
(13:10):
and we're reading social media.
That isn't necessarily true.
I got to speak into that Holycow.
You know I don't even want totalk about that, but let's not
Because then we'll probably getslammed with comments.
But the bottom line for me is,yeah, I see it.
But you know, I still thinkpeople have good hearts in
(13:30):
general and there's kindness tobe had and I think we just have
to enter into it that way andthe way we smile at people and
engage people, it does matter,it just does.
Nancy (13:40):
I think that's a good reminder is I like that
perspective of that there is somuch going on that it just kind
of gets you down and that whatyou're worried about and what
(14:05):
others may be worried about, andhave a different conversation
or just smile.
I think what you said also islike we have our heads down
sometimes I don't even think welook at people.
Nora (14:20):
No, like there's been times I purposely have done this
and I realize this is so wrong.
I've gone to a grocery storewith a hat and sunglasses and
going, I just want to go get mypot roast and my carrots and I
hope I don't have to talk toanybody because I'm so peopled
out sometimes and then I realizeokay, that is not a good
attitude.
I have to really think about itand change my attitude, because
(14:40):
bottom line is relationshipsand people are everything.
So yeah, it's a thing.
Nancy (14:46):
So would you tell people like, try to get like one or act
of kindness, or like what?
Do you have any bullet points?
Oh my goodness, what for people.
Nora (14:57):
or just, you know here.
Here's the thing.
Okay, engaging in yourcommunity is everything.
We live here.
What kind of neighbor are you?
Right, this is what I thinkabout all the time.
I'll use my husband as anexample.
I want to be like him.
He's a contractor.
He walks into Home Depot.
He knows a ton of people thereand they all like gravitate to
him because he's so kind to themand he prays with them and he
(15:19):
knows their families and what'sgoing on, because he pays
attention and he smiles and heasks questions and he's helpful.
He helps other like.
People call him and they're inemergency mode.
He just gets in the car and go.
It doesn't matter how tired heis.
That's engaging in thecommunity, because people matter
and relationships matter.
You know what I mean, and Ithink it would make a world of
(15:40):
difference.
What if every single personcould actually be somewhat
outwardly focused sometimes?
I don't think they have to doit every second.
We're human beings.
You know what a different worldit would be, wouldn't it?
That's what I dream about.
Nancy (15:55):
Yeah.
You know, yeah, it's just onestep closer to.
Nora (16:00):
Right One step.
And it's not about paintingyour neighbor's fence or, you
know, paying their mortgage.
That's not what I'm talkingabout.
I'm talking about actual actsof kindness and smile.
Nancy (16:09):
It's not just the kindness part, it's a whole
movement and culture shift inthe way that you deal in life in
a community so you said it'smaybe not about like, we think
about those huge things, like,oh, I think if I had a million
dollars and I would paysomeone's mortgage.
But you're saying a cultureshift, what, what would that?
What would that look like?
Nora (16:31):
Think about if we left the house, went out of the garage
and started saying to ourselvesI am going to make eye contact
with people, I'm going to letpeople go in front of me in the
line.
I'm going to let people go infront of me in the line.
I'm going to like.
I know another thing my husbanddoes.
I'm so proud of him.
Every time he's at Home Depot Iknow this because I've heard it
from other people he seessomebody struggling loading
(16:51):
things and he's in a hurry, hestops.
He doesn't even introducehimself here.
Let me help you with that.
You know, I think what if again, everybody does that?
Or they see somebody strugglingwalking across the street, they
stop and help them and sayhello, how are you?
Are you having a good day?
Just even that interest in aperson, even a stranger.
I just visited my dad in Texas.
(17:12):
I love Texas.
You know what they are so intothat Like.
I go to the grocery store withmy sister-in-law and I almost
got to a point where I'm likehow many people are going to say
hi to me?
I'm getting over this, and mysister-in-law laughs her head
off and goes no, this is how itis.
I'm in the garage with my dadhanging out and we're all you
know, all the people hang out ingarages in Texas and visit
(17:34):
Neighbors.
Come over, hey, how's it going,pete?
How's your daughter?
Everybody knows my name andthey come over and visit.
They drop food off, like hisnext door neighbor brought a
whole bunch of cupcakes overbecause I was visiting.
That, to me, is engaging in yourcommunity and it's very
neighborly.
You know, it's kind.
I've been in restaurants.
When I'm there or here I have,and you know what.
(17:56):
It surprised the heck out of me.
I'm eating dinner and the foodserver comes over and says, hey,
these people saw you and theypaid your dinner and they didn't
even tell me who they were.
I'm like again, it doesn't haveto cost you money.
But wow, right, yeah, kindness,yeah, and caring about others
more than ourselves, and youknow what?
It's not easy because we're ina hurry, we've got things on her
(18:17):
mind.
Nancy (18:18):
I feel like that might be one of the hardest things is if
we're so distracted and so sooverly busy with life, we have
no room for God to talk to usand be like hey, can you say hi
to that person?
Hey, can you let someone go infront of you?
No, you can't, can't in airquotes because I got stuff to do
(18:43):
, because I have to get to thenext thing, because I have to
run this red light, because I'mso, so overly like strung out on
my schedule and you know, andwe, just we miss a lot.
Nora (18:57):
I feel like Well, and the thing is too, is you're right,
listening to God, listening tothe Holy Spirit?
There's days I come in and I'mlike God, please shut my mind,
my ears, my heart to anythingthat's not from you and that I
shouldn't hear today.
I do that occasionally when Ifeel overwhelmed and it's so
amazing.
The kind of things like did youhear that?
Blah, blah, blah.
I'm like I didn't, but that'sokay.
And then also the who am Isupposed today?
(19:17):
God, put them on my path, makeit really loud and clear Again.
I'm not perfect at it, but Ifind it's right, in line with
God's path, when I do ask youknow.
Nancy (19:29):
And I have seen like small acts of kindness.
I'll give an example of we'reat the Parker Library doing this
, this podcast, and they havehad a problem with getting their
podcast room available and soright now you have to go and you
have to go to the front deskand you have to make a time, and
(19:50):
before it was all online andthey had a little glitch, and so
I went up and was like hey, youknow, I was looking for this
time, I don't know.
Monday at one o'clock and thatsystem was kind of like glitchy,
you know, and so they're likehey, I'm sorry.
And I was like that's fine.
I was like I've got time and itprobably, all in all, literally
(20:11):
took like five, six minutes ofme waiting there and you
wouldn't.
At least two to threelibrarians came up and said
we're so sorry, thank you forbeing so nice, thank you for
being so kind.
We are so sorry, we're going toget us figured out.
Thank you for being so kind.
And I was like I is thiskindness, like I'm just standing
(20:34):
here and just like, yeah, noworries, like it makes you
wonder what their experiencesare with people being impatient,
right.
Exactly.
It kind of hurts your heart ofthis is making such a big deal
to you that I'm not we spend ourwhole lives waiting.
Nora (20:51):
We wait at stoplights, we wait in lines, we wait in the
grocery store line, we wait atthe airport, we wait everywhere.
Yes, it's a mental.
It's like where am I at in themental Shoot?
I actually read a book or Ilook around and start talking to
somebody behind me, as long asthey're not annoyed on their
face, you know.
Nancy (21:05):
Yeah, sometimes they're like don't talk to me.
Nora (21:08):
And I want it winds up being absolutely awesome.
Nancy (21:17):
Yeah, you know, if you can think that way, yeah, yeah.
So that makes you realize thatsometimes it really is something
very, very, very small thatseems to make a huge difference.
Nora (21:23):
It does, it does, yeah, and it doesn't have to cost a
lot.
Yeah, just an attitude shift,right, right, and how we
approach things.
Yeah, I love it.
Nancy (21:32):
Yeah.
Do you have any other storiesof kindness that you'd like to
share with us?
Nora (21:37):
Let's see, I know I made some notes because you had asked
me some questions.
See, I know I made some notes,um, because you had asked me
some questions.
Um, well, I will say that thisis a kindness that blew my mind.
I wanted to tell you about thisone.
Um, I bought a new pair ofpants.
This is gonna sound crazy.
I'm so short.
I'm admitting it publicly now,I am a short human being, okay
(21:57):
and all my pants and all myskirts have to be taken up.
And I was like, oh man, and I'mnot, I pay people what they
want to earn.
But it was like $125 to him,two things.
And I was a little bit shockedby the sticker price, right?
And then I told my husband I'mjust going to return them.
I only paid like $28 for themeach one and I didn't want to
(22:17):
pay that.
And he goes, and he goes.
Well, maybe you can figure itout yourself I cannot sew to
save my life.
So I run into a really goodfriend of mine, stephanie, and I
didn't even think about this, Iwas doing a project with her.
I'm like, oh my goodness, yousew, I have these two things.
Would you be willing to do itand I'll pay you something to do
(22:37):
it and you know, whatever youthink.
And she looks at me do things.
I'm like there's not, I can'thave you do that without paying.
And she's like you have to letme do it.
And here's another thing whenpeople do kindness, sometimes
like for me, I have a hard timeaccepting kindness, receiving.
I am great at being like I wantto be, I want to do kindness
for people.
Then when somebody's kind to me, I like shrink up and I'm like,
oh my gosh, and she did do thisand she did it like in a day
(23:01):
and gave them back and she wasso happy to do it and it was so,
such a kindness and I was sooverwhelmed that she did that
and that was to me, wassacrificial, like it was, you
know, and she wouldn't let mepay her, she wouldn't let me
take her to lunch or do anything.
Those are the kinds of thingsthat you can't.
How do you buy that kind ofkindness and friendship?
(23:22):
You can't.
How do you buy that kind ofkindness and friendship?
You can't.
It's an attitude, thing ofpositivity, right?
And she is that person.
Oh my word Kindness, kindness,kindness, kindness.
She does it all the time.
And I was on the receiving endof it and that's been in the
last week and I was just likewow, so yeah, it happens, it
does.
Nancy (23:40):
Well, and I like that too , because I feel like I'm the
same I love to give, but it ishard to receive Sometimes, yeah,
so yeah, that's a good reminderof but if I give to someone and
they don't receive it, that canbe hurtful.
So I need to remember that.
(24:01):
Yes yep, that sometimes youjust have to say, okay, that
seems like too much, but I will.
Nora (24:10):
yes, yes, yes, yeah, um, and it actually works cool,
because the other person too isin that place of they want to do
things, mm-hmm, you know.
So it's.
It's we kind of gotta like letit happen, right, yeah, I'm
getting better about it.
I am, it's not easy, but I'mgetting better at it.
Nancy (24:26):
I like that reminder.
Yeah, thank you for that.
Nora (24:28):
Yeah, I love Ephesians 2, 8, and 9.
I learned it a long time ago,so it's going to be in King
James.
A lot of people don't speakKing James.
It's for by grace are you saved, through faith, not of yourself
.
It is a gift of God, not ofworks, lest any man should boast
.
And I love it so much because Iam so thankful that Jesus loves
us first of all that much thathe would sacrifice himself.
(24:49):
I mean talk about a kindnessand selfless, right and grateful
and all of that.
But I think it's also like Ithink, as Christ followers, so
many times in disciples we'relike working, working, working,
working in ministry and thenwe're like trying to work into
God's good graces and that's noteven possible, not because he's
(25:09):
like non-humble about it, butit's more like that's not what
he's looking for.
He's looking for therelationship, not what you can
do for him, because it was free.
And that is a great reminder tome, because I get into busy
sometimes instead ofrelationships.
I get in to check the boxes andI don't want to be that kind of
disciple and I don't want to bethat kind of person to my
(25:31):
relationship with God.
So that's a great verse for mereminders of all of it.
And then the second one is 2Timothy 2.15,.
And it's study to show yourselfapproved unto God, a workman
that needeth not to be ashamed,rightly dividing the word truth,
and I think so many times whenI'm in the Bible I think I have
not divided the truth and whatit actually says.
(25:51):
You know, context matters.
We say that, and I have learnedso much about looking at God's
word and looking before that,before scripture, after
scripture and actually saying toGod what are you saying?
To me, and in my younger timesin my relationship with God, it
was so literal I never got it.
So that verse especially meansa lot to me as I'm, I've been in
(26:13):
the word longer in my lifetimeand.
I'm, you know, growing in myrelationship.
It's like to remind me hey,when you get in that Bible, you
make sure that you're reading itright and you're not making
stuff up yeah, so that's why Ilike those verses.
Nancy (26:27):
That's easy to do and you can probably almost with
anything.
You could pull something tomake it say what you want.
But yeah, and sometimes youdon't mean to and I think you
learn later like, oh, I guess Ididn't know that that's what
that was about, and God is isgracious about that.
He totally is.
Yeah.
Nora (26:47):
Um, I, I was.
I actually wrote down, um, acouple of stories that shape
people Like I think I've knownGod since I was eight and, um, I
think the thing that you're,you know your, your walk with
God is ebbs and flows, ebbs andflows and I remember.
The reason I wanted to sharethis story is because it changed
my.
This story changed my life withGod and I was in my 20s and I
(27:11):
was working corporately and Isigned a paper when I worked in
this organization that said Iwould never talk about God in
politics ever, didn't matter thecircumstances.
And a client walked in and she Iwas in a financial institution
and she came in on a Friday atlike 3.30, 4 o'clock.
There was no one in the officeand I was licensed and I was
approved to talk to her and shecame in to talk about her
(27:33):
portfolio and so I pulled herstuff out and I let her look at
it and the woman did not lookokay.
I mean, she just looked likeshe just looked tired and
unkempt, and I don't not beingcruel.
Nancy (27:46):
It's more like I was worried about her okay.
Nora (27:47):
And so, while she's looking, I go, hey, are you okay
?
And she's like no, and I'm likeokay, what can I do for you?
She goes nothing and she's.
And I said okay, and I just satthere and and then I was like I
said please, is there somethingI can do for you or do you want
to talk about it?
And she said no, I just feellike I'm all by myself and I'm
(28:10):
alone.
And I was like I heard thisvoice in the inside going you
tell her about me, you tell herabout me.
And the other voice was sayingdon't you dare.
You signed that paper.
Your integrity said youwouldn't do this.
And this woman was like I feellike nobody cares about me and
nobody loves me.
And this voice over here islike you tell her about me, you
tell her about me.
And this is Jesus, like theHoly Spirit screaming at me and
(28:33):
the other one's screaming at meif you do that, you're gonna get
fired.
If you do that, you're breakingyour work.
Like it was horrible and I wasfighting this battle and I
looked at her and I finally, Ifinally horrible.
And I was fighting this battleand I looked at her and I
finally I finally compromisedand I was like that's not true.
God loves you.
I promise you that God lovesyou.
And he goes.
No, he doesn't.
I'm like he does.
(28:53):
And there was this voice againyou tell her about me, like all
of it.
And I felt like God was sayingyou tell her about Jesus, you
tell her about what he did, howmuch he loves her, all of it.
And this other voice again justbeat the crap out of me.
And so in the end I went overall of her stuff, I didn't say
anything else and she went onher way.
(29:15):
So this was Friday night.
Monday morning, I got a phonecall from a woman who said, hey,
I wanted to talk and I was thelast person that talked to her
and this was her friend and shewas trying to talk to the person
.
She heard that she went to anappointment or went to go see
her finance people and it was me.
(29:36):
I said it was me and she wasvery depressed and sad and she
looked like she was tired andshe told me nobody cared about
her and loved her.
But I told her that God lovedher.
This woman started screaming atme.
You had no right to do that.
She screaming at me, you had noright to do that.
She was an atheist.
She didn't need to hear thatfrom you and you overstepped and
she went completely crazy on me.
First of all, that is likedevastating to be the last
(29:59):
person oh my gosh, yeah, yeahand um wow just so you know,
it's like one of the I used tonever be able to tell.
I didn't tell the story for 15years, by the way, to anyone,
not even my husband.
I was so ashamed andembarrassed and freaked out.
I quit my job because I waslike I can't be in a space I
can't talk about Jesus.
That just hummed over me like adark cloud, like I could not
(30:21):
forgive myself.
It was horrible.
So I went to God and I askedfor forgiveness.
But I also made a promise tohim and I said God, I will never
, ever not talk about you whenyou ask.
I will never deny you.
I don't care what circumstanceI'm in, I will do this and I
will tell you.
That has been true.
I have been in the craziestplaces and I have talked about
(30:43):
Jesus and my girlfriends teaseme sometimes because, right a
little couple of years afterthat happened, I was doing
karaoke and I was with some ofmy girlfriends and we were in
like a sports bar grill placeand there was, we were in a
large booth and the booth nextto us was full of these guys
that looked like bikers, tatsand all this, and they were
talking really loud.
(31:03):
Well, we could hear them.
They all worked in a mortuary,so one of the guys was like we
could hear them.
They were so loud.
He goes hey, do you ever wonderwhere the dead bodies go?
And I was like, okay, I turnaround in my booth and I go.
I know, I know, do you want tohear, do you want to know?
And they're like yeah, so I getup out of the booth.
(31:24):
No, yes, I go stand in front ofthem at the booth, I go go here
.
It is okay.
It's like the Klingons window.
Yeah, it's an empty shell andthey either go to heaven or hell
.
But they get a choice becausethe bottom line is Jesus died so
that you could remain with himand have he died for your sins
(31:45):
and there is a way for you tospend eternity in heaven, or, if
you choose not to, that personis in eternal hell and it can't
be changed.
And they were like dead silent.
Oh, I bet They've been drinking, but they also were like holy
cow and I go.
The truth is, everybody has tomake that choice and you can
make that choice today and I'mhappy to talk to you about that.
(32:05):
And I talked more about Jesusand how you do that.
You know, through his word.
I talked about John 3.16 and 1John 1.9,.
If we confess our sins and Iwent into this whole thing, my
girlfriends are completelysilent in the other booth going
holy crap, these guys are alldrinking beer.
You know, blah, blah, blah,completely silent and they're
like you, just buzz killer.
Talk about a party killer.
(32:27):
You know they were having allfun and I'm like I'll tell you
about Jesus.
So, yeah, and that's just anexample of how your heart
changed from having a harsh,harsh lesson I don't think God
was teaching us.
I had to learn that lessonabout obeying God and so, going
fast forward all these years.
I will never not speak of Jesus, ever.
(32:47):
And so, yeah, we all have ourstories.
But that shaped me big, wow,yeah.
And 15 years later I wasspeaking at a women's event at
our church and I decided to tellthat story and it pertained to
what I was talking about.
And I told Don, there's a storyI'm going to tell and you've
never heard, because I was tooworried about how you would
(33:10):
think about me.
And he came and he stood in theback.
I cried through the whole thingbut I told him but here's the
cool part People really took itin a good way, like I'm going to
learn from this too, right,right, and what was?
I don't know if it's humorousor not.
So when I got done speaking, Iwent back to see Don and he
hugged me.
And he goes, babe Don.
And he hugged me and he goesbabe, are you kidding me?
(33:30):
And the man just like, huggedme, loved on me and he goes.
Frankly, I thought you weregonna say you had an affair.
I was.
He was like, oh my god, how canyou be relieved?
This is horrible.
He goes, he goes.
It is hon.
But I would.
And it was so cool because itwas a learning moment for me,
(33:51):
for for my husband he goes.
I'm never going to be ashamedof you.
You stop that.
You know, because I was worriedhow he would think, oh, I'm a
Christian woman and you know.
And I was like he's going tothink I'm a horrible person.
And it didn't happen that way,you know.
But yeah, so that's shaped mein my walk with Christ.
Wow, right, right.
Nancy (34:09):
Thank you for being vulnerable.
Nora (34:12):
Might as well Tell it all right.
Nancy (34:15):
So I do have to ask, like have you had people that have
taken your story?
Like, when you went to thoseguys and did they take it?
Well, Did they just say, uh,Did they take it?
Nora (34:28):
You know what has anyone like screamed at you, besides
that other woman on the A fewpeople kind of are in denial and
they'll be like I don't believethe same things you believe and
I'm like that's okay, yeah, butI just want you to hear this
and then I walk away.
I don't like push, push, push,right, right, I'm not a street
evangelist, I don't do theseguys, these morticians.
(34:50):
They actually were really kind,they listened and they were
like okay.
You know, like we reallyappreciate that.
You know, you could just tellthe vibe.
And then, of course, I carry mypurse little cards that have
our address on it.
So I'm like, listen, why don'tyou come to church on Sunday?
And of course my girlfriendsover here are dying because
they're like, in a good way,they just like, of course,
(35:10):
you're in a karaoke place,you're talking to a bunch of,
you know, biker, morticianpeople and you're inviting them
to church, which isn't a badthing.
It's just they just know myheart because they know my story
, and then I'm not gonna miss anopportunity.
So it's to this day we will bein a place and there be like,
there she goes, and it doesn'tmake me a better person, it just
makes me I.
I have learned a harsh lessonand I made a promise.
(35:32):
So I'm just going to go forward.
But yes, I've had good responses, I've had some people calm.
I've had yeah, through theyears it's been really cool.
And then I find out later inlife I heard your story and you
know, I got a card this weekfrom somebody from 15 years ago
that wrote me a card and saidthank you for sharing with me.
(35:53):
It changed my life.
I moved away and I just wantedyou to know and I was so
surprised what I know.
I just got it from a lady.
She said I don't need to tellyou what she said, but it does
matter and it does changepeople's lives.
It just does, and so I willcontinue to do that, that, so I
will continue to do that.
Nancy (36:09):
That's amazing.
I was just going to say maybeyou'll never know.
You won't know until you're inheaven.
But that's so lovely thatsometimes God does give you
those glimpses right now, yeah,and it was so precious it was
when I opened it.
To just keep going right.
Nora (36:27):
Yeah, persevere.
Persevere, Because in the end,that's relationships and their
relationship with God is whatreally matters most.
Nancy (36:36):
I mean that, yeah, oh, my goodness, nora, I've loved this
time.
I think the only question wehaven't gotten to is what are
you grateful for?
Nora (36:45):
that's easy for me.
I am so grateful for um, myhusband we just celebrated our
40th wedding anniversary Friday.
That man has been so steadfastin my life and my biggest
encourager and just champion.
And, of course, my family.
Their influence in my life isunmatched.
(37:08):
And then my tribe of friends,my church family.
I'm just so thankful for peoplethat pour into me my mentor,
krista, who's been with me 25years, maybe even I don't know
how long, who just she justholds me accountable.
Those kind of things to me, ohmy gosh, I'm so and I'm grateful
that God let me do ministry.
I'm grateful for a God thatknows our hearts and I get to do
(37:32):
things that I never dreamed ofdoing.
Nancy (37:34):
So, yeah, oh well, I'm just praying this episode.
There were so many littletidbits and so whatever someone
you know, it'll be one thing forone and another for another.
But I'm praying that someonewill actually take something
that you said and walk it out intheir lives.
Thanks, nancy.
Nora (37:53):
Thanks for having me today .
This was so fun, it was.
Thank you for coming.
Nancy (37:58):
I hope this episode impacted you as much as it did
me.
We will be back in two weekswith a brand new episode.
In the meantime, check out allof our other seasons and all of
the stories of faith and hope.
Don't forget to follow us onInstagram, facebook and X for
(38:20):
daily doses of hope and faith.
Wow, season five is here.
I am so excited that you'rehere with us on Ordinary People,
Extraordinary Things, whereyour story is his glory.
Thank you so much for sharingOrdinary People, Extraordinary
Things with your friends andyour family.
Thank you for visiting onInstagram, Facebook and X.
Thank you for giving us afive-star review on any of the
(00:24):
platforms you listen to.
We are so thankful that you arefinding faith and hope in this
podcast and we're thankful thatyou are sharing the word about
Ordinary People, ExtraordinaryThings.
We couldn't do it without you.
Well, welcome to OrdinaryPeople, Extraordinary Things.
I'm here with my friend, Nora.
Nora, thank you, Thank you.
Nora (00:45):
Nancy, I'm so excited to be here with you today.
Very, really, I'm honored.
Nancy (00:51):
Oh, thank you.
So a little backstory on Noraand I.
We have known each other for along time, but my most favorite
thing that we've ever done is wewent to India together.
Nora (01:01):
Oh, my gosh, that was like the best experience ever.
I know that mutualtransformation, but even
friendships and how we hungtogether and those experiences
that we have, they kind of bond,you don't they?
Nancy (01:13):
It changes your relationship, yeah.
Nora (01:14):
It does.
I mean traveling to foreigncountries.
I think we figured it out.
We did 21,000 miles between allthe flights, inter-country
flights and train rides.
You remember the train rides,or you know I'm talking about
like all the stuff.
Nancy (01:27):
Everything, it was everything, yeah, yeah.
So we got to see just amazingthings, hard things go into
brothels, I mean, and so thosethings.
They change you.
Oh, to be with someone that,like I said, it's just a shared
experience.
A shared experience.
Nora (01:46):
Oh no, it was epic, and I would do it all over again.
Nancy (01:49):
Yeah, I'm so glad that I got to experience that Me too,
me too.
Yeah.
So if someone doesn't know you,three words or phrases to
describe yourself.
Oh, my goodness, that was likeone of the hardest ever.
Nora (02:01):
It's like well, how would I describe myself?
Somebody else describe me,please, right, okay, so here's
the three that I came up with.
I even asked my husband, like,what do you think of these?
He's always yep.
Nancy (02:10):
I would say I'm loyal.
Nora (02:11):
Yes, I'm a truth speaker.
I'm a terrible talk texter.
You are Nora the worst talktexter and it's phonetic, and
the problem is is I don't edit,so you just send it.
Yeah, I apologize if you'veever got a text from me and
there you go.
And then the last one bevisionary.
Nancy (02:30):
That is good, I like those.
I like those so years ago, andI don't know if you even
remember this conversation, butit really hit me that we were
talking about time and like howdo you have time to do this or
that?
And you just said that youthought that God could do
anything with time, and like hecould give you more hours, or if
(02:54):
he like, if he created time, hecould do whatever he wanted
with it.
True, could you kind of sharethat, because maybe I just
butchered it.
No, you didn't.
Nora (03:04):
Actually, it's true, I believe our God is so big that
he can do anything, and Iremember being up to my neck in
like work and ministry andpersonal life, and I was just
like God.
I know I have to choose andhave boundaries, but I also
really need more hours in theday because I have these
commitments.
And I remember praying.
I'm like God, I know you're nota drive-through, Can I have
(03:25):
five more minutes?
Can I have 10 more minutes?
However, I was like I wouldjust like to be able to finish
these things, and what I foundout as I've been praying for
that is, at the end of the day,somebody would actually say to
me hey, did you get all thatstuff done on your list?
I'm like, yeah, I did that byone o'clock.
And they're like there's no waysomebody physically could
actually do that.
And what wound up happening isit became a continual recurring
(03:48):
thing that God allowed.
It was a gift, it was favor,and I totally believe it.
To this day, God still gives memore time to manage multiple
things.
And the thing is, you guys,this is totally not me, this is
God, because there's no wayphysically that I could do this.
And if you measure it out and Igave you the list that a human
(04:08):
being could.
So that's supernatural andthat's God giving you that.
Here you go, go do it, go do it.
So I believe in miracles, Ibelieve he's a giant God and I
don't know if everybody's abeliever.
It doesn't happen to everybody.
Nancy (04:24):
But for me it's happened.
I love that.
Yeah, that's kind of marked meand that's been such a long time
ago.
But when I've said yes to somethings that I was like, yeah, I
can go take this meal to thisperson and I did not have time
in my day to make a meal orbring it, but I did and I was
(04:49):
like that's what Nora wastalking about was like I felt
like I needed to do this and Ididn't have the time, but yes,
somehow I did have the time.
Nora (04:57):
Well, and what I love about that is like sometimes
even we don't ask God allows it,because you're doing something
for him or he's going to beglorified in it so it's like and
then that realization and yougiving him credit for it, that's
pretty awesome.
Nancy (05:09):
Yeah, yeah, so that was just a little little snippet of
the fun we're going to havechatting about today.
So for you I know that'ssomething that you're really
passionate about is kindness,yes, or hospitality, or you
could probably say it a milliondifferent ways Right right.
So why are you passionate aboutthis?
(05:33):
Why am I passionate aboutkindness?
Nora (05:36):
Well, first of all, it's a commandment, fruits of the
spirit.
You know, we should be kind,love one another as we love
ourselves, and what I've learnedthrough my lifetime, especially
for my mom, is that heapingcoals is the most important
thing you can do, because itchanges people's lives, no
matter how they treat you.
We're responsible for ourbehavior.
So from the time I was younger,that's been something that's
happened, even from I call mymom and go, this person hates me
(05:59):
and blah, blah goes.
Okay, then pray for him.
You can only be responsible foryour behavior and your answer
for your behavior and youranswer for your behavior with
God, and so it always helped me,you know, and to remember also
that everybody has a story andthere's a reason they're feeling
that way.
And if we enter in withkindness in spite of that, a lot
of times it brings theirshields down and all of a sudden
it changes their heart, andI've seen it over and over and
(06:23):
over throughout my lifetime andit's not always easy.
I'm not gonna lie and go.
Oh, I'm a Mary Poppins ofkindness that is not true, um?
but there have been times I'vebeen reminded um, not just for
my mom, but mentors, and, andit's something, it's a learned
thing too, you know, and I think, being um in ministry a long
time, we've got to remember todo that, and I'm not perfect at
(06:45):
it, I've got to say thatpublicly, but I've seen the
results of it.
Nancy (06:48):
So I feel like something we hear a lot is like acts of
kindness or random acts ofkindness or kindness matters and
they're kind of like littlethings that get thrown out every
once in a while.
Nora (07:01):
Um, you know like social media or just you know but do
you think that it actually doesmatter?
Oh, absolutely A quick story.
My mother-in-law absolutelyhated my guts when I started
dating Don this is for reals andwe love each other now just
giving you a heads up.
But when we first started shebasically was like she's not the
(07:23):
right person for you.
He's an only child and ofcourse, you know I'm not I'm not
a parent, but I imagine thatwas like they have to be the
perfect person for my son and Iwould call my mom, my mother, my
future mother-in-law hates me.
You know what am I going to do?
And she's like Nora, you justbe you and love her well, no
matter what she says and does.
And it took two years of heapingcoals, praying for her, being
(07:45):
kind, no matter what, and shewas constantly on Dawn, this is
not the right person.
Why are you marrying her?
She even went as far as to saywe're going to disown you if you
marry her.
And I don't want to saysomething bad about her because
the woman is amazing, ah,freaking amazing.
Love the woman.
But I can understand her,loving her, her son, but the
(08:07):
kindness God allowed me to be inher life in spaces that she
needed me and she wound upwriting me a letter and said I'm
so sorry.
You are the right person andafter spending time with you,
I'm I just.
I love you, just like I love myson.
It was like the most beautifulletter, two years of hard, but
on the other hand, this is anexample of keeping coals and
being kind.
(08:27):
And then I wound up in anamazing relationship with her oh
, wow so that's an example.
I love that.
Nancy (08:34):
I love that.
I love that so much.
I've heard you talk abouthospitality before, and when I
think about hospitality, Imostly just think of, like,
going to a hotel.
Okay, is what I think of.
What does hospitality have todo with the Christian walk?
Nora (08:56):
Oh, my goodness, this is such a big question.
I could talk about this for aweek, a month, a year.
I believe hospitality iseverything that you do Like.
When people walk into your homelike this is how I look at
hospitality Do they feel likethey're welcomed, like even in a
party?
Okay, we all feel like middleschoolers when we show up at a
(09:17):
social event if we don't knowanybody or don't know half the
people.
Even when we know people, ifwe're the last person to walk in
the door, we get this angst ofoh no, what if the hostess or
you as a person immediatelypulled them in?
Oh, I'm so glad you're here.
This is awesome.
You know that kind of stuff.
That's being aware of people'sfeelings.
(09:38):
And then also to me,hospitality is making people
feel so welcome that they leaveand go.
Wow, I want to do that myself.
And like in your home, do youput yourself out and do you do
more or better?
Or are you thinking, or is itmore like, oh, you're checking
the box, but it's not just inyour home.
How about when you're out withpeople?
(09:59):
How about just saying hello topeople in the grocery store?
Just saying hello to people inthe grocery store.
Hospitality to me is everythingthat you do and are aware for
other people to make them feelcomfortable.
Okay, church, I know I've beenthe guest services director for
years, but the thing is, one ofthe things that came out with my
boss at the time was like let'smake them feel the same way as
(10:22):
if they were entering into yourhome.
What does that feel like?
I love that thought becausewhat it means is, when they come
in, we're like not only arethey welcome, can I get you a
cup of coffee?
How are you?
I want to hear your story.
I have heard hundreds andhundreds of people's stories and
it was a cool opportunity tohear people's story but also
that feeling of people beingseen and heard.
So hospitality to me is peoplefeel seen, heard, valued, valued
(10:46):
and treated so special theycan't even forget about it.
Nancy (10:51):
So like kindness, Like, kindness.
Nora (10:55):
It keeps coming up, doesn't it?
Oh, my word.
Nancy (10:59):
Do you think that we see less kindness in the world?
You think that we see lesskindness in the world or are we
just kind of really negative,like in the just just general?
You know new united states, youknow where we're I just feel
like we have so much angst andwe have so much division and we
(11:20):
have so much unkindness?
do you think that's right, thatis real?
Or is it just that we're toldthat so often or we see it Like,
or we kind of get drawn to thatinstead of getting drawn to the
good?
Am I making any sense?
I do.
Nora (11:37):
I think it's again.
I got to say I think it's whatyou're looking for.
Are you looking for all thenegative?
And a positive can change anegative.
Like I've been just in a storeand I let somebody that has less
things than me go in front ofme and they're like are you
serious?
I'm like, yeah, I'm not in anybig hurry at all.
I hope you're having a greatday and immediately there's that
(11:58):
you can feel the angst off ofthem change.
I do think there is a lot ofnegativity and a lot of angst,
and I think it just culturally.
Right now there's so manythings to worry about and people
are worried about paying theirbills and taxes and war and
politics and what's going tohappen.
And I'm taking care of olderparents oh, my kids are
struggling and I think all ofthat weighs people down.
I can imagine everybody's gottheir things that weigh them
(12:20):
down.
So, consequently, when we focuson only the negative, we can't
get out of the forest throughthe trees.
Nancy (12:27):
That's just the bottom line.
Nora (12:29):
I find like I've got a circumstance going on right now
and I'm trying to have joy in itand I'm not trying to be false
about it.
But I also think there's amindset of what is three steps
look ahead of you If you've gotsome faith, if you've got a
positive attitude and again, Iam not Pollyanna, I am not a
(12:49):
Mary Poppins, but I also see thevalue in positivity.
Negativity doesn't help any ofus.
We lose sleep, right.
We're not living in peace.
I think God tells us we got tolive in peace and have joy in
the hard times too.
But generally, culturally, whatI see around and I run, run
around a lot is a lot of sadness.
People got their heads down.
I love my cell phone, but wegot our heads in our cell phones
(13:10):
and we're reading social media.
That isn't necessarily true.
I got to speak into that Holycow.
You know I don't even want totalk about that, but let's not
Because then we'll probably getslammed with comments.
But the bottom line for me is,yeah, I see it.
But you know, I still thinkpeople have good hearts in
(13:30):
general and there's kindness tobe had and I think we just have
to enter into it that way andthe way we smile at people and
engage people, it does matter,it just does.
Nancy (13:40):
I think that's a good reminder is I like that
perspective of that there is somuch going on that it just kind
of gets you down and that whatyou're worried about and what
(14:05):
others may be worried about, andhave a different conversation
or just smile.
I think what you said also islike we have our heads down
sometimes I don't even think welook at people.
Nora (14:20):
No, like there's been times I purposely have done this
and I realize this is so wrong.
I've gone to a grocery storewith a hat and sunglasses and
going, I just want to go get mypot roast and my carrots and I
hope I don't have to talk toanybody because I'm so peopled
out sometimes and then I realizeokay, that is not a good
attitude.
I have to really think about itand change my attitude, because
(14:40):
bottom line is relationshipsand people are everything.
So yeah, it's a thing.
Nancy (14:46):
So would you tell people like, try to get like one or act
of kindness, or like what?
Do you have any bullet points?
Oh my goodness, what for people.
Nora (14:57):
or just, you know here.
Here's the thing.
Okay, engaging in yourcommunity is everything.
We live here.
What kind of neighbor are you?
Right, this is what I thinkabout all the time.
I'll use my husband as anexample.
I want to be like him.
He's a contractor.
He walks into Home Depot.
He knows a ton of people thereand they all like gravitate to
him because he's so kind to themand he prays with them and he
(15:19):
knows their families and what'sgoing on, because he pays
attention and he smiles and heasks questions and he's helpful.
He helps other like.
People call him and they're inemergency mode.
He just gets in the car and go.
It doesn't matter how tired heis.
That's engaging in thecommunity, because people matter
and relationships matter.
You know what I mean, and Ithink it would make a world of
(15:40):
difference.
What if every single personcould actually be somewhat
outwardly focused sometimes?
I don't think they have to doit every second.
We're human beings.
You know what a different worldit would be, wouldn't it?
That's what I dream about.
Nancy (15:55):
Yeah.
You know, yeah, it's just onestep closer to.
Nora (16:00):
Right One step.
And it's not about paintingyour neighbor's fence or, you
know, paying their mortgage.
That's not what I'm talkingabout.
I'm talking about actual actsof kindness and smile.
Nancy (16:09):
It's not just the kindness part, it's a whole
movement and culture shift inthe way that you deal in life in
a community so you said it'smaybe not about like, we think
about those huge things, like,oh, I think if I had a million
dollars and I would paysomeone's mortgage.
But you're saying a cultureshift, what, what would that?
What would that look like?
Nora (16:31):
Think about if we left the house, went out of the garage
and started saying to ourselvesI am going to make eye contact
with people, I'm going to letpeople go in front of me in the
line.
I'm going to let people go infront of me in the line.
I'm going to like.
I know another thing my husbanddoes.
I'm so proud of him.
Every time he's at Home Depot Iknow this because I've heard it
from other people he seessomebody struggling loading
(16:51):
things and he's in a hurry, hestops.
He doesn't even introducehimself here.
Let me help you with that.
You know, I think what if again, everybody does that?
Or they see somebody strugglingwalking across the street, they
stop and help them and sayhello, how are you?
Are you having a good day?
Just even that interest in aperson, even a stranger.
I just visited my dad in Texas.
(17:12):
I love Texas.
You know what they are so intothat Like.
I go to the grocery store withmy sister-in-law and I almost
got to a point where I'm likehow many people are going to say
hi to me?
I'm getting over this, and mysister-in-law laughs her head
off and goes no, this is how itis.
I'm in the garage with my dadhanging out and we're all you
know, all the people hang out ingarages in Texas and visit
(17:34):
Neighbors.
Come over, hey, how's it going,pete?
How's your daughter?
Everybody knows my name andthey come over and visit.
They drop food off, like hisnext door neighbor brought a
whole bunch of cupcakes overbecause I was visiting.
That, to me, is engaging in yourcommunity and it's very
neighborly.
You know, it's kind.
I've been in restaurants.
When I'm there or here I have,and you know what.
(17:56):
It surprised the heck out of me.
I'm eating dinner and the foodserver comes over and says, hey,
these people saw you and theypaid your dinner and they didn't
even tell me who they were.
I'm like again, it doesn't haveto cost you money.
But wow, right, yeah, kindness,yeah, and caring about others
more than ourselves, and youknow what?
It's not easy because we're ina hurry, we've got things on her
(18:17):
mind.
Nancy (18:18):
I feel like that might be one of the hardest things is if
we're so distracted and so sooverly busy with life, we have
no room for God to talk to usand be like hey, can you say hi
to that person?
Hey, can you let someone go infront of you?
No, you can't, can't in airquotes because I got stuff to do
(18:43):
, because I have to get to thenext thing, because I have to
run this red light, because I'mso, so overly like strung out on
my schedule and you know, andwe, just we miss a lot.
Nora (18:57):
I feel like Well, and the thing is too, is you're right,
listening to God, listening tothe Holy Spirit?
There's days I come in and I'mlike God, please shut my mind,
my ears, my heart to anythingthat's not from you and that I
shouldn't hear today.
I do that occasionally when Ifeel overwhelmed and it's so
amazing.
The kind of things like did youhear that?
Blah, blah, blah.
I'm like I didn't, but that'sokay.
And then also the who am Isupposed today?
(19:17):
God, put them on my path, makeit really loud and clear Again.
I'm not perfect at it, but Ifind it's right, in line with
God's path, when I do ask youknow.
Nancy (19:29):
And I have seen like small acts of kindness.
I'll give an example of we'reat the Parker Library doing this
, this podcast, and they havehad a problem with getting their
podcast room available and soright now you have to go and you
have to go to the front deskand you have to make a time, and
(19:50):
before it was all online andthey had a little glitch, and so
I went up and was like hey, youknow, I was looking for this
time, I don't know.
Monday at one o'clock and thatsystem was kind of like glitchy,
you know, and so they're likehey, I'm sorry.
And I was like that's fine.
I was like I've got time and itprobably, all in all, literally
(20:11):
took like five, six minutes ofme waiting there and you
wouldn't.
At least two to threelibrarians came up and said
we're so sorry, thank you forbeing so nice, thank you for
being so kind.
We are so sorry, we're going toget us figured out.
Thank you for being so kind.
And I was like I is thiskindness, like I'm just standing
(20:34):
here and just like, yeah, noworries, like it makes you
wonder what their experiencesare with people being impatient,
right.
Exactly.
It kind of hurts your heart ofthis is making such a big deal
to you that I'm not we spend ourwhole lives waiting.
Nora (20:51):
We wait at stoplights, we wait in lines, we wait in the
grocery store line, we wait atthe airport, we wait everywhere.
Yes, it's a mental.
It's like where am I at in themental Shoot?
I actually read a book or Ilook around and start talking to
somebody behind me, as long asthey're not annoyed on their
face, you know.
Nancy (21:05):
Yeah, sometimes they're like don't talk to me.
Nora (21:08):
And I want it winds up being absolutely awesome.
Nancy (21:17):
Yeah, you know, if you can think that way, yeah, yeah.
So that makes you realize thatsometimes it really is something
very, very, very small thatseems to make a huge difference.
Nora (21:23):
It does, it does, yeah, and it doesn't have to cost a
lot.
Yeah, just an attitude shift,right, right, and how we
approach things.
Yeah, I love it.
Nancy (21:32):
Yeah.
Do you have any other storiesof kindness that you'd like to
share with us?
Nora (21:37):
Let's see, I know I made some notes because you had asked
me some questions.
See, I know I made some notes,um, because you had asked me
some questions.
Um, well, I will say that thisis a kindness that blew my mind.
I wanted to tell you about thisone.
Um, I bought a new pair ofpants.
This is gonna sound crazy.
I'm so short.
I'm admitting it publicly now,I am a short human being, okay
(21:57):
and all my pants and all myskirts have to be taken up.
And I was like, oh man, and I'mnot, I pay people what they
want to earn.
But it was like $125 to him,two things.
And I was a little bit shockedby the sticker price, right?
And then I told my husband I'mjust going to return them.
I only paid like $28 for themeach one and I didn't want to
(22:17):
pay that.
And he goes, and he goes.
Well, maybe you can figure itout yourself I cannot sew to
save my life.
So I run into a really goodfriend of mine, stephanie, and I
didn't even think about this, Iwas doing a project with her.
I'm like, oh my goodness, yousew, I have these two things.
Would you be willing to do itand I'll pay you something to do
(22:37):
it and you know, whatever youthink.
And she looks at me do things.
I'm like there's not, I can'thave you do that without paying.
And she's like you have to letme do it.
And here's another thing whenpeople do kindness, sometimes
like for me, I have a hard timeaccepting kindness, receiving.
I am great at being like I wantto be, I want to do kindness
for people.
Then when somebody's kind to me, I like shrink up and I'm like,
oh my gosh, and she did do thisand she did it like in a day
(23:01):
and gave them back and she wasso happy to do it and it was so,
such a kindness and I was sooverwhelmed that she did that
and that was to me, wassacrificial, like it was, you
know, and she wouldn't let mepay her, she wouldn't let me
take her to lunch or do anything.
Those are the kinds of thingsthat you can't.
How do you buy that kind ofkindness and friendship?
(23:22):
You can't.
How do you buy that kind ofkindness and friendship?
You can't.
It's an attitude, thing ofpositivity, right?
And she is that person.
Oh my word Kindness, kindness,kindness, kindness.
She does it all the time.
And I was on the receiving endof it and that's been in the
last week and I was just likewow, so yeah, it happens, it
does.
Nancy (23:40):
Well, and I like that too , because I feel like I'm the
same I love to give, but it ishard to receive Sometimes, yeah,
so yeah, that's a good reminderof but if I give to someone and
they don't receive it, that canbe hurtful.
So I need to remember that.
(24:01):
Yes yep, that sometimes youjust have to say, okay, that
seems like too much, but I will.
Nora (24:10):
yes, yes, yes, yeah, um, and it actually works cool,
because the other person too isin that place of they want to do
things, mm-hmm, you know.
So it's.
It's we kind of gotta like letit happen, right, yeah, I'm
getting better about it.
I am, it's not easy, but I'mgetting better at it.
Nancy (24:26):
I like that reminder.
Yeah, thank you for that.
Nora (24:28):
Yeah, I love Ephesians 2, 8, and 9.
I learned it a long time ago,so it's going to be in King
James.
A lot of people don't speakKing James.
It's for by grace are you saved, through faith, not of yourself
.
It is a gift of God, not ofworks, lest any man should boast
.
And I love it so much because Iam so thankful that Jesus loves
us first of all that much thathe would sacrifice himself.
(24:49):
I mean talk about a kindnessand selfless, right and grateful
and all of that.
But I think it's also like Ithink, as Christ followers, so
many times in disciples we'relike working, working, working,
working in ministry and thenwe're like trying to work into
God's good graces and that's noteven possible, not because he's
(25:09):
like non-humble about it, butit's more like that's not what
he's looking for.
He's looking for therelationship, not what you can
do for him, because it was free.
And that is a great reminder tome, because I get into busy
sometimes instead ofrelationships.
I get in to check the boxes andI don't want to be that kind of
disciple and I don't want to bethat kind of person to my
(25:31):
relationship with God.
So that's a great verse for mereminders of all of it.
And then the second one is 2Timothy 2.15,.
And it's study to show yourselfapproved unto God, a workman
that needeth not to be ashamed,rightly dividing the word truth,
and I think so many times whenI'm in the Bible I think I have
not divided the truth and whatit actually says.
(25:51):
You know, context matters.
We say that, and I have learnedso much about looking at God's
word and looking before that,before scripture, after
scripture and actually saying toGod what are you saying?
To me, and in my younger timesin my relationship with God, it
was so literal I never got it.
So that verse especially meansa lot to me as I'm, I've been in
(26:13):
the word longer in my lifetimeand.
I'm, you know, growing in myrelationship.
It's like to remind me hey,when you get in that Bible, you
make sure that you're reading itright and you're not making
stuff up yeah, so that's why Ilike those verses.
Nancy (26:27):
That's easy to do and you can probably almost with
anything.
You could pull something tomake it say what you want.
But yeah, and sometimes youdon't mean to and I think you
learn later like, oh, I guess Ididn't know that that's what
that was about, and God is isgracious about that.
He totally is.
Yeah.
Nora (26:47):
Um, I, I was.
I actually wrote down, um, acouple of stories that shape
people Like I think I've knownGod since I was eight and, um, I
think the thing that you're,you know your, your walk with
God is ebbs and flows, ebbs andflows and I remember.
The reason I wanted to sharethis story is because it changed
my.
This story changed my life withGod and I was in my 20s and I
(27:11):
was working corporately and Isigned a paper when I worked in
this organization that said Iwould never talk about God in
politics ever, didn't matter thecircumstances.
And a client walked in and she Iwas in a financial institution
and she came in on a Friday atlike 3.30, 4 o'clock.
There was no one in the officeand I was licensed and I was
approved to talk to her and shecame in to talk about her
(27:33):
portfolio and so I pulled herstuff out and I let her look at
it and the woman did not lookokay.
I mean, she just looked likeshe just looked tired and
unkempt, and I don't not beingcruel.
Nancy (27:46):
It's more like I was worried about her okay.
Nora (27:47):
And so, while she's looking, I go, hey, are you okay
?
And she's like no, and I'm likeokay, what can I do for you?
She goes nothing and she's.
And I said okay, and I just satthere and and then I was like I
said please, is there somethingI can do for you or do you want
to talk about it?
And she said no, I just feellike I'm all by myself and I'm
(28:10):
alone.
And I was like I heard thisvoice in the inside going you
tell her about me, you tell herabout me.
And the other voice was sayingdon't you dare.
You signed that paper.
Your integrity said youwouldn't do this.
And this woman was like I feellike nobody cares about me and
nobody loves me.
And this voice over here islike you tell her about me, you
tell her about me.
And this is Jesus, like theHoly Spirit screaming at me and
(28:33):
the other one's screaming at meif you do that, you're gonna get
fired.
If you do that, you're breakingyour work.
Like it was horrible and I wasfighting this battle and I
looked at her and I finally, Ifinally horrible.
And I was fighting this battleand I looked at her and I
finally I finally compromisedand I was like that's not true.
God loves you.
I promise you that God lovesyou.
And he goes.
No, he doesn't.
I'm like he does.
(28:53):
And there was this voice againyou tell her about me, like all
of it.
And I felt like God was sayingyou tell her about Jesus, you
tell her about what he did, howmuch he loves her, all of it.
And this other voice again justbeat the crap out of me.
And so in the end I went overall of her stuff, I didn't say
anything else and she went onher way.
(29:15):
So this was Friday night.
Monday morning, I got a phonecall from a woman who said, hey,
I wanted to talk and I was thelast person that talked to her
and this was her friend and shewas trying to talk to the person
.
She heard that she went to anappointment or went to go see
her finance people and it was me.
(29:36):
I said it was me and she wasvery depressed and sad and she
looked like she was tired andshe told me nobody cared about
her and loved her.
But I told her that God lovedher.
This woman started screaming atme.
You had no right to do that.
She screaming at me, you had noright to do that.
She was an atheist.
She didn't need to hear thatfrom you and you overstepped and
she went completely crazy on me.
First of all, that is likedevastating to be the last
(29:59):
person oh my gosh, yeah, yeahand um wow just so you know,
it's like one of the I used tonever be able to tell.
I didn't tell the story for 15years, by the way, to anyone,
not even my husband.
I was so ashamed andembarrassed and freaked out.
I quit my job because I waslike I can't be in a space I
can't talk about Jesus.
That just hummed over me like adark cloud, like I could not
(30:21):
forgive myself.
It was horrible.
So I went to God and I askedfor forgiveness.
But I also made a promise tohim and I said God, I will never
, ever not talk about you whenyou ask.
I will never deny you.
I don't care what circumstanceI'm in, I will do this and I
will tell you.
That has been true.
I have been in the craziestplaces and I have talked about
(30:43):
Jesus and my girlfriends teaseme sometimes because, right a
little couple of years afterthat happened, I was doing
karaoke and I was with some ofmy girlfriends and we were in
like a sports bar grill placeand there was, we were in a
large booth and the booth nextto us was full of these guys
that looked like bikers, tatsand all this, and they were
talking really loud.
(31:03):
Well, we could hear them.
They all worked in a mortuary,so one of the guys was like we
could hear them.
They were so loud.
He goes hey, do you ever wonderwhere the dead bodies go?
And I was like, okay, I turnaround in my booth and I go.
I know, I know, do you want tohear, do you want to know?
And they're like yeah, so I getup out of the booth.
(31:24):
No, yes, I go stand in front ofthem at the booth, I go go here
.
It is okay.
It's like the Klingons window.
Yeah, it's an empty shell andthey either go to heaven or hell
.
But they get a choice becausethe bottom line is Jesus died so
that you could remain with himand have he died for your sins
(31:45):
and there is a way for you tospend eternity in heaven, or, if
you choose not to, that personis in eternal hell and it can't
be changed.
And they were like dead silent.
Oh, I bet They've been drinking, but they also were like holy
cow and I go.
The truth is, everybody has tomake that choice and you can
make that choice today and I'mhappy to talk to you about that.
(32:05):
And I talked more about Jesusand how you do that.
You know, through his word.
I talked about John 3.16 and 1John 1.9,.
If we confess our sins and Iwent into this whole thing, my
girlfriends are completelysilent in the other booth going
holy crap, these guys are alldrinking beer.
You know, blah, blah, blah,completely silent and they're
like you, just buzz killer.
Talk about a party killer.
(32:27):
You know they were having allfun and I'm like I'll tell you
about Jesus.
So, yeah, and that's just anexample of how your heart
changed from having a harsh,harsh lesson I don't think God
was teaching us.
I had to learn that lessonabout obeying God and so, going
fast forward all these years.
I will never not speak of Jesus, ever.
(32:47):
And so, yeah, we all have ourstories.
But that shaped me big, wow,yeah.
And 15 years later I wasspeaking at a women's event at
our church and I decided to tellthat story and it pertained to
what I was talking about.
And I told Don, there's a storyI'm going to tell and you've
never heard, because I was tooworried about how you would
(33:10):
think about me.
And he came and he stood in theback.
I cried through the whole thingbut I told him but here's the
cool part People really took itin a good way, like I'm going to
learn from this too, right,right, and what was?
I don't know if it's humorousor not.
So when I got done speaking, Iwent back to see Don and he
hugged me.
And he goes, babe Don.
And he hugged me and he goesbabe, are you kidding me?
(33:30):
And the man just like, huggedme, loved on me and he goes.
Frankly, I thought you weregonna say you had an affair.
I was.
He was like, oh my god, how canyou be relieved?
This is horrible.
He goes, he goes.
It is hon.
But I would.
And it was so cool because itwas a learning moment for me,
(33:51):
for for my husband he goes.
I'm never going to be ashamedof you.
You stop that.
You know, because I was worriedhow he would think, oh, I'm a
Christian woman and you know.
And I was like he's going tothink I'm a horrible person.
And it didn't happen that way,you know.
But yeah, so that's shaped mein my walk with Christ.
Wow, right, right.
Nancy (34:09):
Thank you for being vulnerable.
Nora (34:12):
Might as well Tell it all right.
Nancy (34:15):
So I do have to ask, like have you had people that have
taken your story?
Like, when you went to thoseguys and did they take it?
Well, Did they just say, uh,Did they take it?
Nora (34:28):
You know what has anyone like screamed at you, besides
that other woman on the A fewpeople kind of are in denial and
they'll be like I don't believethe same things you believe and
I'm like that's okay, yeah, butI just want you to hear this
and then I walk away.
I don't like push, push, push,right, right, I'm not a street
evangelist, I don't do theseguys, these morticians.
(34:50):
They actually were really kind,they listened and they were
like okay.
You know, like we reallyappreciate that.
You know, you could just tellthe vibe.
And then, of course, I carry mypurse little cards that have
our address on it.
So I'm like, listen, why don'tyou come to church on Sunday?
And of course my girlfriendsover here are dying because
they're like, in a good way,they just like, of course,
(35:10):
you're in a karaoke place,you're talking to a bunch of,
you know, biker, morticianpeople and you're inviting them
to church, which isn't a badthing.
It's just they just know myheart because they know my story
, and then I'm not gonna miss anopportunity.
So it's to this day we will bein a place and there be like,
there she goes, and it doesn'tmake me a better person, it just
makes me I.
I have learned a harsh lessonand I made a promise.
(35:32):
So I'm just going to go forward.
But yes, I've had good responses, I've had some people calm.
I've had yeah, through theyears it's been really cool.
And then I find out later inlife I heard your story and you
know, I got a card this weekfrom somebody from 15 years ago
that wrote me a card and saidthank you for sharing with me.
(35:53):
It changed my life.
I moved away and I just wantedyou to know and I was so
surprised what I know.
I just got it from a lady.
She said I don't need to tellyou what she said, but it does
matter and it does changepeople's lives.
It just does, and so I willcontinue to do that, that, so I
will continue to do that.
Nancy (36:09):
That's amazing.
I was just going to say maybeyou'll never know.
You won't know until you're inheaven.
But that's so lovely thatsometimes God does give you
those glimpses right now, yeah,and it was so precious it was
when I opened it.
To just keep going right.
Nora (36:27):
Yeah, persevere.
Persevere, Because in the end,that's relationships and their
relationship with God is whatreally matters most.
Nancy (36:36):
I mean that, yeah, oh, my goodness, nora, I've loved this
time.
I think the only question wehaven't gotten to is what are
you grateful for?
Nora (36:45):
that's easy for me.
I am so grateful for um, myhusband we just celebrated our
40th wedding anniversary Friday.
That man has been so steadfastin my life and my biggest
encourager and just champion.
And, of course, my family.
Their influence in my life isunmatched.
(37:08):
And then my tribe of friends,my church family.
I'm just so thankful for peoplethat pour into me my mentor,
krista, who's been with me 25years, maybe even I don't know
how long, who just she justholds me accountable.
Those kind of things to me, ohmy gosh, I'm so and I'm grateful
that God let me do ministry.
I'm grateful for a God thatknows our hearts and I get to do
(37:32):
things that I never dreamed ofdoing.
Nancy (37:34):
So, yeah, oh well, I'm just praying this episode.
There were so many littletidbits and so whatever someone
you know, it'll be one thing forone and another for another.
But I'm praying that someonewill actually take something
that you said and walk it out intheir lives.
Thanks, nancy.
Nora (37:53):
Thanks for having me today .
This was so fun, it was.
Thank you for coming.
Nancy (37:58):
I hope this episode impacted you as much as it did
me.
We will be back in two weekswith a brand new episode.
In the meantime, check out allof our other seasons and all of
the stories of faith and hope.
Don't forget to follow us onInstagram, facebook and X for
(38:20):
daily doses of hope and faith.
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