March 30, 2025 • 30 mins
Aging in Place: Expert Strategies for Safe and Comfortable Living with Jim McWhirter
Thinking about staying in your home as you age? This episode of Peaceful Life Radio features Certified Aging in Place Specialist Jim McWhirter! Learn practical strategies for creating a safe, comfortable, and functional living space. Discover essential home modifications, important considerations about falls and loneliness, and when it might be time to explore other living options.
Key Topics:Guest: Jim McWhirter, Gemini Builders & Wellington Park
- What is a Certified Aging in Place Specialist? (1:56)
- Identifying and addressing home fall hazards (6:09)
- Affordable vs. expensive home modifications (10:56)
- The importance of social connection and combating loneliness (0:36, 13:49)
- Talking to loved ones about aging in place and using assistance (16:55)
- When to consider assisted living vs. remodeling (26:10)
Hosts: David Lowry & Don Drew
#AgingInPlace #HomeModifications #SeniorLiving #PeacefulLifeRadio #Retirement #HomeSafety #Loneliness #AssistedLiving
Visit the Peaceful Life Radio website for more information. Peaceful Life Productions LLP produces this podcast, which helps nonprofits and small businesses share their stories and expertise through accessible and cost-effective podcasts and websites. For more information, please contact us at info@peacefullifeproductions.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
David Lowry (00:00):
Welcome to Peaceful Life Radio, your place on the
(00:02):
internet for a happy andpeaceful second half of life.
Jim McWhirter (00:06):
It's okay to live alone.
It's not okay to be lonely.
Loneliness is a stepping stoneto depression.
And depression can be treatedwith medications, with therapy,
but so many people don'trecognize it quick enough.
So, educate yourself on that.
If you have an adult age,parent, or loved one that's
(00:28):
living alone.
David Lowry (00:28):
Those were the opening remarks of Jim
McWhirter, who will be our guesttoday.
I'm David Lowry, one of yourco-hosts, along with my good
friend and co-host, Don Drew.
Don Drew (00:37):
Hello, David.
Hello everyone.
It's good to be with you all.
And I've got some good news forus because today's guest is
someone who is transforming theway we think about aging and
independence in our homes.
Jim McWhirter is with us todayand he is a Certified Aging in
Place Specialist dedicated tocreating safe, functional, and
comfortable spaces that allowindividuals to live confidently
(01:00):
and securely as they grow older.
With his expertise Jim brings aunique blend of compassion,
innovation, and practicalsolutions to a topic that
touches families everywhere.
I'm thrilled to have him on thepodcast to share his insights
and experiences.
Welcome Jim.
Jim McWhirter (01:14):
Thank you very much.
David Lowry (01:16):
Jim, we want to know about some of your
experiences as a Certified Agingin Place Specialist.
And I guess the best way tostart is to ask you what in the
world is that?
Jim McWhirter (01:26):
The CAPS program is what we call it, you know,
the abbreviation, the acronym,whatever you wanna call it, is
designed to train builders,remodelers, people that are
involved with occupationaltherapy even.
And the whole idea is to helppeople know what to do to
(01:48):
renovate their homes so thatthey can age in place.
Many people live in homes thatmaybe they've lived in for 30,
40, 50 years, and designs havechanged in that period of time
to be a little moreaccommodating for people as we
(02:12):
age.
So the whole idea is it'ssometimes less expensive to
remain in your existing home ifit will accommodate you safely
than having to move on tocertain types of retirement
communities and places likethat.
Don Drew (02:34):
Jim, you've got what, over 30, 40 years of experience
as a builder, and then you alsoown a retirement home?
Jim McWhirter (02:42):
That's true Don.
And as a registered designer, ithas even changed my ideas about
how a home needs to be designedand built.
And I started this before theCAPS program was even invented
by the National Association ofHome Builders.
And that's who the certifyingagency is and put that in place.
(03:07):
The reason why is because Istarted recognizing the fact
that maybe some of the simplestthings that we could do in new
home construction could helppeople in the future if they
kept their homes as long as thegeneration before us.
(03:28):
Now we're all a part of the babyboomer generation, but the
generation before us and evenour grandparents generations
were used to living in homes for50 years or more.
Many people that have moved intoour retirement community or our
assisted living came from ahouse they lived in for 50 or
(03:51):
more years.
So their challenges arespecifically things like
bathroom doors, for example.
They're 24 inches wide.
Well, you can't get a, walkingassistant device, like we
abbreviate the term walker,through a 24 inch door.
(04:11):
The bathroom becomes one of thebiggest fall hazards, if you
will, and the goal is toeliminate those type of issues
for people as they age.
It's something that we're allgoing to be faced with at some
point in our lives.
It's just another stage or phaseof life, if you will, that we
(04:35):
are going to be challenged withdifferent things and we want to
be sure we're prepared.
I go to my old Boy Scout motto,be prepared.
And so do that now.
I have a lot of baby boomersthat I've worked with that are
trying to plan for theirfutures, even though they don't
need some of these things rightnow.
(04:56):
And most of the modificationsthat usually are necessary for
someone to comfortably age inplace, are not gonna cause any
kind of loss of resale value.
Most people may not even noticethe majority of features that
are utilized.
I'm also a licensed real estatebroker, and so I see these
(05:20):
things from all these differentarenas, and that's part of the
reason why I chose to become acertified aging and place
specialist.
David Lowry (05:30):
What kind of people are seeking you out for advice
on this?
Is it only people who areretiring or people with
illnesses.
Help us understand.
Jim McWhirter (05:39):
Okay, so, primarily the people that, I
have assisted with this areusually children of the adult
age generation, and sometimesthe adult ages.
And they'll contact when they'refearful of their children
saying, you know what I'mworried about you being alone
(06:02):
and all this.
So, let's talk to somebody, aspecialist, about things we can
do to make it easier for you.
Sometimes it's health issues.
People have an accident.
And one of the things that Ithink is really important with
what you want to accomplish withthis particular session on your
(06:22):
podcast is some reminders ofsome of the important things,
and I feel that it's myresponsibility to mention some
of those things.
First of all.
Earlier I talked about thebathroom and the size of the
door.
The bathroom is the number oneplace for falls, and I said
(06:43):
that, and those are usuallypeople's concerns, whether it's
the loved ones of the adult agegeneration, and I like that
term, it's friendlier morepositive than just saying
seniors because technicallyseniors involve anybody over the
age of 60.
The falls become a real issueand let me just briefly share
(07:06):
that a third of the falls, justsimple accidents.
We can all have them.
Maybe you get a new piece offurniture, you rearrange
furniture, you're not used toit.
You get up at night to go to therestroom or get a drink of water
and you bump the side of a newsofa or recliner.
And those are what we callsimple.
(07:28):
Accidents.
The other two thirds are usuallycaused by one of two things.
One is nutrition.
You have people, especially ifthey live alone, and at some
point they get tired of fixingfull-blown balanced meals.
(07:48):
Maybe with the right amount ofprotein, nutrition, and all the
things that are important to usall the time, but especially as
we age.
And so the lack of nutritioncauses certain weaknesses and
that creates balance issues.
The other big thing that causesfalls is medications.
(08:11):
It's either from forgetting totake the medications or getting
new medications that you're notused to yet.
That can create a balance issueuntil you're used to'em.
But sometimes people just don'ttake them as they're prescribed
by the physician.
And it's like they're on thisrollercoaster.
(08:33):
Up and down with theirmedications and balance issues.
And the older we get, the morebrittle the bones and all of
those things can cause fracturesand different things.
Once that happens, most likely,the healing time is not going to
allow somebody to remain intheir home when they get out of
(08:55):
the hospital and out of theskilled nursing.
Getting their bodies back intoorder.
And that's when ready to age inplace can be an issue.
The bathroom I want to point outbesides having 36 inch wide
doors in the bathroom, all themain rooms you live in, the
(09:16):
living room the bedroom, thebathroom, the kitchen.
All of those need to be walkerand or wheelchair friendly.
And specifically the bathroomneeds to have a minimum of a
five foot wide shower so thatyou can access the shower to be
able to bathe.
The flooring, it's gotta be anons slick type flooring because
(09:41):
ceramic tile gets wet.
You may slip and fall if itdoesn't have something skid
proof to prevent that.
Toilets sometimes being theregular high toilet, we like, I
call them comfort height toiletinstead of a DA type toilets,
but they're just a little bithigher, more comfortable,
prevents a lot of falls.
(10:02):
These are things that should beconsidered if somebody's wanting
to renovate to age in place.
Some places will need morerenovations than other.
The older the home will requiremore renovations, most likely,
unless your designer, wasalready thinking of these things
and trying to make a mastersuite more compatible for.
(10:25):
Aging in place.
David Lowry (10:26):
Are these going to be expensive fixes, Jim?
Jim McWhirter (10:28):
It depends on how you wanna look at it.
My first response is,unfortunately, the bathroom and
the kitchen are the two mostexpensive rooms in a home to
renovate.
And it's because they involve alot of plumbing and different
things that may have to bereplaced, modified concrete
(10:50):
removed to be able toaccommodate that five foot wide
shower.
I like to design the bathroom towhere no matter what happens in
the future, and I like to think,okay, if my mom had to be in a
wheelchair, she needs to have afive foot minimum spin in the
(11:11):
center of that bathroom inbetween the shower, the
laboratory, the toilet, soeverything is comfortable and
not too tight not to feel likeyou're squeezed in there.
That's when people can fall.
I've seen bathroom remodels Ihave taken, extra bedrooms.
You've got a three bedroom home,one person living in it.
(11:32):
So, many times we get lucky in acloset backs that main bathroom
that we're wanting to renovate.
And we can utilize the space ofthat closet and still keep it a
bedroom, but put a separatewardrobe cabinet for guests or
whatever to have a place to hangclothes.
But the most important thing isto think about this future Now,
(11:55):
yes, that's expensive.
I've seen people spend up to$30,000 to get the bathroom they
wanted with a certain type ofwhirlpool tub and all these
different things.
You can go as fancy as you want,you can just deal with the most
immediate and save that money.
(12:16):
But in my mind, you have to lookat it like, if you're really
determined and you're reallypretty healthy, you're already
not having some health issues,then by all means invest in
that.
And the money you're investingin that is still going to not
hurt the value of your home.
(12:36):
In fact, it most likely willhelp you get the money back out
of it, in my opinion.
And I've seen that happen.
That's why I can say thatbecause you have other people
that are looking for that,seeking for that.
In my opinion, you should notattack renovating a house for
mom or dad or both if at leastone of them is already having
(13:02):
some health issues.
I think you're better off tolook at other options because it
may be a situation depending ontheir age and what their health
issues are that they may want toconsider researching retirement
type living and even assistedliving.
Living alone is something thatcan be very challenging,
(13:26):
especially if you don't havechildren or loved ones that live
close by that can check on them.
And one of the things we want tocombat is depression.
When somebody loses a spouse orsomething and they're lonely,
it's okay to live alone.
It's not okay to be lonely.
(13:46):
Loneliness is a stepping stoneto depression and depression.
It can be treated withmedications, with therapy, but
so many people don't recognizeit quick enough.
So educate yourself on that.
If you have, aged parent, anadult age, parent, or loved one
that's living alone.
And we train our nurse aides ondepression regularly and
(14:09):
recognizing signs of depressionand all.
David Lowry (14:12):
That is a very good piece of advice.
Don Drew (14:14):
So a good place to start would be for me to contact
one of these certified aging inplace specialists and get the
ball rolling to do an evaluationon a home and then collaborate
with other health caregivers andso forth.
Is that also true?
Jim McWhirter (14:27):
Have somebody, like a certified age in place
specialist.
There's a handful of us in theOklahoma City metro area, for
example, that are qualified tohelp with that and do a
walkthrough.
We can almost tell you what tolook for on a podcast like this
and walk around with a tapemeasure and see how things are
(14:49):
or have somebody come out andlook at it with you and give you
some rough cost ideas.
Don Drew (14:54):
Jim, are you aware of any government programs or
resources that can help offsetthe cost?
Let's say I have a parent thatin a 1980s house and they don't
have the resources to pay tohave that modified Jim, are you
aware of any government programsor resources that can help
offset the cost?
Let's say I have a parent thatin a 1980s house and they don't
(15:18):
have the resources to pay tohave that modified so they could
age in place.
Are you aware of any help outthere?
so they could age in place.
Are you aware of any help outthere?
Jim McWhirter (15:29):
Don, as a matter of fact, for veterans, I have
had the VA pay up to$7,000 torenovate a shower to combat a
veteran who is struggling with awheelchair and needing to be
able to bathe and all.
And I've had them do that as arenovation.
(15:50):
I've had them assist themfinancially in new construction
even.
And I'm sure that program isstill available.
The VA even pays well over 1900a month for assisted living.
And that program, I'm told, isstill out there.
I haven't had anyone use it inseveral years, but it's
(16:12):
something to research dependingon a person and their situation,
disability and all that, theywant to check with all of the
programs through DHS and all ofthose to see what's available.
David Lowry (16:25):
Jim, my dad was becoming more of a fall hazard,
he fell several times and we'dsay to him, Dad, you need to use
your walker.
And he would refuse to do it.
How do we talk to our agingparents and loved ones when it's
time for them to start using awalker, start making some of
these home modifications when wejust find them resistant to
(16:48):
doing those things?
Jim McWhirter (16:49):
That's a good question, David, because the
quickest way to answer that is,this term called stubbornness
and...
Don Drew (16:58):
Yeah, David and I know little about that.
But go ahead.
Jim McWhirter (17:02):
(Laughter) Yeah, I was gonna say, I think all
three of us can be the threestooges on stubbornness
probably.
But it's it's a challenge forsure.
And my mom she at 92 was prettyhealthy and everything, but she
would get up at midnight andstart looking through her closet
(17:22):
and stuff and not use herwalker.
And we kept reminding her, andshe fell one night and broke her
hip.
And, that that took her took herenergy away from her and several
months later she was gone.
Because of that fall, that's whyI'm so passionate about
recommending people reallyconsider the fall hazards in a
(17:43):
home.
You can't totally preventsomebody from falling, but you
can do a lot of things to makeit less likely to happen as long
as they're cooperating withtheir physician and medications
and nutrition and all the thingsI mentioned earlier.
(18:03):
But yeah, we have a battle ofstubbornness with the older we
get.
One of the difficult thingspeople ask me is how do I talk
to my dad about not drivinganymore?
And that's a tough one becausethat's like taking their freedom
away.
They've been driving since theywere 16 and now maybe they're
90.
And think about how excited wewere when we got our driver's
(18:27):
license and now the thought of,wow, what would I do if I
couldn't drive anymore?
My father-in-law lived atWellington Park until he was two
weeks from 102, and he was stilldriving at 99 and it really
bothered us.
It didn't matter what we did totry to discourage him.
But I followed him one morningand it amazed me.
(18:51):
He's 99 and he is still a safe,great driver.
But my mom, when she was 89, shewas scared of driving anymore.
She said, I'm not drivinganymore, I'm selling my car.
And I said, great.
But that's one of thosestubbornness things, that's a
challenge because people arelooking at their freedom and
you're taking away my freedom.
Now, you wanna spend my money tomake this bathroom shower bigger
(19:15):
when I've been taking a bath inthis tub for 49 years.
So there's a psychological thingthat we have to deal with and
we're going to be faced with ittoo.
And as I mentioned, we'reobviously stubborn people too.
David Lowry (19:30):
Well, there are some really interesting
modifications that can be madein homes today, and some of them
are exciting.
I've seen some of these showerswhere you can step in, sit down,
and close the door.
Some of those look kinda likethey could be fun to have in
your house.
Jim McWhirter (19:45):
Showers are a big deal nowadays.
So many people in today's marketwant a big shower.
In fact, in new construction, wedon't necessarily see very many
bathtubs anymore, especially inthe master suite.
I designed one shower 10 foot by10 foot.
In starter homes, that's abedroom.
(20:05):
And the shower spray heads thatcome out of the ceiling,
crossways, all of the walls ofthe shower and it's like being
under a waterfall or something,but people love it.
And there's a lot ofstate-of-the-art things in
showers that you basically wheelright in.
And at that point of theplanning when you have the
(20:26):
space, then take advantage ofit.
So, a shower is a greatinvestment and I feel like you
get your money back out of it.
Especially if it's in thatmaster suite.
That's a great renovation to do.
Don Drew (20:39):
Are, there's some kinds of modifications that are
pretty typical?
Jim McWhirter (20:42):
Let's put the square footage in the main
living area in our bedroom andwalk in closet and bathroom and
kitchen and the places where wereally live all the time and
less in extra rooms.
Go ahead and renovate a bathroomdoor from a 24 inch wide to a 36
(21:02):
inch wide, it doesn't matter ifyou decide to go ahead and sell
the house.
The average person is not gonnathink about the width of that
door being wider than what itwas when it was built.
I just, I've never ran intoanybody that was concerned about
something like that.
If you're gonna have to buy anew toilet do a comfort height
(21:25):
toilet unless you're a shortperson because, you may be more
comfortable with the regularheight.
Used to we kept bathroomvanities at 30 to 32 inches
high.
The standard was 32 inches foryears and years Now, they're 36,
like a kitchen countertopheight.
People like them because it'seasier to wash their hair in.
(21:47):
But yeah, those are those areall features that I feel like
help accommodate the investmentfor mom or dad or whoever, or
for yourself, for your unknownfuture.
And still not be throwing moneyaway that you'll never see
again.
I read all these surveys and sothat's where I get a lot of my
(22:09):
information that I'm sharingwith you.
This isn't just my opinion, it'sbased on NAHB research and all.
David Lowry (22:17):
The other day I went to my physician for my
annual they don't call'emphysicals anymore, but on
Medicare...
Don Drew (22:24):
I think they're called fogey physicals.
David Lowry (22:26):
Fogey physicals, right?
and they were asking mequestions, and these are the
first times I've been askedthese questions, and I remember
feeling Oh my goodness.
I've crossed a line, haven't I?
Things like, do you have grabbars?
Do you have to step oversomething to get into your
shower?
Do you have things you can holdonto?
(22:46):
They were asking me all thesequestions and I realized, Okay
this is now a part of thequestions I'm going to be
getting for the rest of my lifebecause I've crossed that second
half of life where they askthose.
Who should I collaborate with toget this done correctly?
Jim McWhirter (23:01):
You mentioned grab bars and things like that.
I'm big on this terminology.
Grab bars seems negative to me.
So, I call them balance barsbecause they're just to give you
a little balance when you stepout of a shower or something.
They can be added so easily andthey don't have to be until you
really need them.
David Lowry (23:21):
Jim, if you were to create a shower or modify your
house for a shower, describe howwide, how deep and so forth you
think it ought to be.
Jim McWhirter (23:29):
Well, I'll give you an example of one that I
designed recently, and it was aseven foot by seven foot.
And, that pretty muchaccommodates just about anything
in any one.
It has a 48 inch wide opening,which I just mentioned.
36 inch wide doors are plenty,but there was plenty of room to
(23:50):
add as many balance bars assomebody could possibly need.
And sometimes you can put whatwe know is really a safe place
for a balance bar.
But then you get somebody thatstarts trying to use it and it
just doesn't fit them.
So the beauty is that you canadd.
To where they need it.
You've just gotta plan for it inthe beginning with all of the
(24:13):
structural backing to allow nomatter where in that seven foot
by seven foot area, as manybalance bars as make somebody
happy than they feel morecomfortable, they feel safer.
And that's the goal.
Don Drew (24:30):
A lot of our listeners are not in the Oklahoma City
area.
You mentioned the certifiedaging in Place specialist
designation as being developedand overseen by the National
Association of Home Builders.
Is it fair to say, Jim, that formost of our listeners, if they
will go to the local NationalAssociation of Home Builders
webpage in their metropolitanarea, they can probably find a
(24:54):
list of certified aging in placespecialists.
Is that true?
Jim McWhirter (24:56):
Yes, and, you can actually call the central
Oklahoma Home BuildersAssociation.
It's 4 0 5 8 4 3 1 5 0 8, andget a list of the certified
aging in place specialists thatwe have in that area.
And they can also lead you on tothe information to receive from
(25:18):
the State Home BuildersAssociation that will most
likely have anybody in theirarea.
Otherwise outta state, go tohome Builders Association,
whatever the closest local orstate Home Builders Association
is, and they should be able toprovide them with a list of
qualified, certified people.
David Lowry (25:40):
Jim, since you've worked as a owner operator of a
retirement center when is itmaking more sense to move to an
assisted living place as opposedto remodeling your home?
What are your thoughts on that?
Jim McWhirter (25:54):
Normally that's going to be a financial decision
in my opinion.
Here's a term to consider, andthat's called continuing care.
What that means is on the samecampus, it's like I sought out
to have enough land to where wecould do what we needed to do.
So we've got 25 acres here onI-40 that we can continue
expanding.
(26:14):
But it begins with driving intoan independent living community.
And what that means is there'sindependent living homes.
For example, I designed 900square foot one bedrooms, 1400
square foot, two bedrooms.
Those are very spacious, veryopen plans.
Has many of the features thatwe're talking about right now.
(26:37):
But people live independently.
Now they do have access toactivities and different things.
But you go from independentliving and you look at, Well,
all I have to do is write onecheck that covers my lease, my
utilities.
I don't have to pay homeownersinsurance anymore.
(26:59):
I don't have to pay propertytaxes anymore.
I don't have to pay all of thisstuff that I've been having to
pay and paying the neighbor boyto mow my lawn.
All of those different homeownerresponsibilities and maintenance
and have to repaint the outside,buy a new roof.
(27:21):
Insurance is so high now and itdoesn't cover near what it's
supposed to, replacing a roof inOklahoma.
So a lot of people when theyassess the cost to renovate the
home and look at what theirincome is and what they get from
retirement funds, socialsecurity, all those different
income, and then what theirexpenses are, it's easy to weigh
(27:44):
the facts that, hey, maybe Ishould consider moving into this
independent living home.
I have neighbors there.
We'll have activities we can dotogether and potluck dinners,
and the town hall and differentthings like that.
If things require me to need alittle bit of assistance, like
from a nurse aid or a nurse orsomebody, then I can move in
(28:09):
right next door into theassisted living building, and
there I've got three nutritiousmeals a day.
I've got somebody that's gonnahandle my medications.
I don't have to worry when it'stime for me to take a pill.
A nurse aid is going to bring itto me and I have activities I
can enjoy.
(28:30):
There's exercise classes,there's crafts to do, there's
entertainers that come severaltimes a week.
And then if something happensthat maybe somebody gets into
one of the dementias,Alzheimer's, anything like that,
the continuing care is rightthere.
If you follow what I'm saying.
(28:50):
And I know you all are familiarwith this.
And it all begins with theassessment of the existing home.
If that's what somebody'sthinking about doing.
We have some people that say,Well, we've got this money.
Mom's got this money put back.
We can invest in fixing ourhouse, her house, whatever.
(29:12):
And for as long as we can, thenit'll be there for us in the
future, whatever.
Many people decide that it'sjust a whole lot less expensive
and easier to find the rightcontinuing care place for them.
David Lowry (29:29):
Jim, thank you so much for being our guest today
on Peaceful Life Radio,
Jim McWhirter (29:33):
You're sure welcome, and thank you.
This is something I'm verypassionate about from what I've
done over the years, especiallythe past almost 16 years and
all...
jim McWhirter, president
Don Drew (29:44):
and CEO of Gemini Builders owner of Wellington
Park, an assisted livingcommunity and Certified Aging
and Place Specialist.
Jim, thank you so much for beingwith us today.
I really appreciate yourcontribution.
Welcome to Peaceful Life Radio, your place on the
(00:02):
internet for a happy andpeaceful second half of life.
Jim McWhirter (00:06):
It's okay to live alone.
It's not okay to be lonely.
Loneliness is a stepping stoneto depression.
And depression can be treatedwith medications, with therapy,
but so many people don'trecognize it quick enough.
So, educate yourself on that.
If you have an adult age,parent, or loved one that's
(00:28):
living alone.
David Lowry (00:28):
Those were the opening remarks of Jim
McWhirter, who will be our guesttoday.
I'm David Lowry, one of yourco-hosts, along with my good
friend and co-host, Don Drew.
Don Drew (00:37):
Hello, David.
Hello everyone.
It's good to be with you all.
And I've got some good news forus because today's guest is
someone who is transforming theway we think about aging and
independence in our homes.
Jim McWhirter is with us todayand he is a Certified Aging in
Place Specialist dedicated tocreating safe, functional, and
comfortable spaces that allowindividuals to live confidently
(01:00):
and securely as they grow older.
With his expertise Jim brings aunique blend of compassion,
innovation, and practicalsolutions to a topic that
touches families everywhere.
I'm thrilled to have him on thepodcast to share his insights
and experiences.
Welcome Jim.
Jim McWhirter (01:14):
Thank you very much.
David Lowry (01:16):
Jim, we want to know about some of your
experiences as a Certified Agingin Place Specialist.
And I guess the best way tostart is to ask you what in the
world is that?
Jim McWhirter (01:26):
The CAPS program is what we call it, you know,
the abbreviation, the acronym,whatever you wanna call it, is
designed to train builders,remodelers, people that are
involved with occupationaltherapy even.
And the whole idea is to helppeople know what to do to
(01:48):
renovate their homes so thatthey can age in place.
Many people live in homes thatmaybe they've lived in for 30,
40, 50 years, and designs havechanged in that period of time
to be a little moreaccommodating for people as we
(02:12):
age.
So the whole idea is it'ssometimes less expensive to
remain in your existing home ifit will accommodate you safely
than having to move on tocertain types of retirement
communities and places likethat.
Don Drew (02:34):
Jim, you've got what, over 30, 40 years of experience
as a builder, and then you alsoown a retirement home?
Jim McWhirter (02:42):
That's true Don.
And as a registered designer, ithas even changed my ideas about
how a home needs to be designedand built.
And I started this before theCAPS program was even invented
by the National Association ofHome Builders.
And that's who the certifyingagency is and put that in place.
(03:07):
The reason why is because Istarted recognizing the fact
that maybe some of the simplestthings that we could do in new
home construction could helppeople in the future if they
kept their homes as long as thegeneration before us.
(03:28):
Now we're all a part of the babyboomer generation, but the
generation before us and evenour grandparents generations
were used to living in homes for50 years or more.
Many people that have moved intoour retirement community or our
assisted living came from ahouse they lived in for 50 or
(03:51):
more years.
So their challenges arespecifically things like
bathroom doors, for example.
They're 24 inches wide.
Well, you can't get a, walkingassistant device, like we
abbreviate the term walker,through a 24 inch door.
(04:11):
The bathroom becomes one of thebiggest fall hazards, if you
will, and the goal is toeliminate those type of issues
for people as they age.
It's something that we're allgoing to be faced with at some
point in our lives.
It's just another stage or phaseof life, if you will, that we
(04:35):
are going to be challenged withdifferent things and we want to
be sure we're prepared.
I go to my old Boy Scout motto,be prepared.
And so do that now.
I have a lot of baby boomersthat I've worked with that are
trying to plan for theirfutures, even though they don't
need some of these things rightnow.
(04:56):
And most of the modificationsthat usually are necessary for
someone to comfortably age inplace, are not gonna cause any
kind of loss of resale value.
Most people may not even noticethe majority of features that
are utilized.
I'm also a licensed real estatebroker, and so I see these
(05:20):
things from all these differentarenas, and that's part of the
reason why I chose to become acertified aging and place
specialist.
David Lowry (05:30):
What kind of people are seeking you out for advice
on this?
Is it only people who areretiring or people with
illnesses.
Help us understand.
Jim McWhirter (05:39):
Okay, so, primarily the people that, I
have assisted with this areusually children of the adult
age generation, and sometimesthe adult ages.
And they'll contact when they'refearful of their children
saying, you know what I'mworried about you being alone
(06:02):
and all this.
So, let's talk to somebody, aspecialist, about things we can
do to make it easier for you.
Sometimes it's health issues.
People have an accident.
And one of the things that Ithink is really important with
what you want to accomplish withthis particular session on your
(06:22):
podcast is some reminders ofsome of the important things,
and I feel that it's myresponsibility to mention some
of those things.
First of all.
Earlier I talked about thebathroom and the size of the
door.
The bathroom is the number oneplace for falls, and I said
(06:43):
that, and those are usuallypeople's concerns, whether it's
the loved ones of the adult agegeneration, and I like that
term, it's friendlier morepositive than just saying
seniors because technicallyseniors involve anybody over the
age of 60.
The falls become a real issueand let me just briefly share
(07:06):
that a third of the falls, justsimple accidents.
We can all have them.
Maybe you get a new piece offurniture, you rearrange
furniture, you're not used toit.
You get up at night to go to therestroom or get a drink of water
and you bump the side of a newsofa or recliner.
And those are what we callsimple.
(07:28):
Accidents.
The other two thirds are usuallycaused by one of two things.
One is nutrition.
You have people, especially ifthey live alone, and at some
point they get tired of fixingfull-blown balanced meals.
(07:48):
Maybe with the right amount ofprotein, nutrition, and all the
things that are important to usall the time, but especially as
we age.
And so the lack of nutritioncauses certain weaknesses and
that creates balance issues.
The other big thing that causesfalls is medications.
(08:11):
It's either from forgetting totake the medications or getting
new medications that you're notused to yet.
That can create a balance issueuntil you're used to'em.
But sometimes people just don'ttake them as they're prescribed
by the physician.
And it's like they're on thisrollercoaster.
(08:33):
Up and down with theirmedications and balance issues.
And the older we get, the morebrittle the bones and all of
those things can cause fracturesand different things.
Once that happens, most likely,the healing time is not going to
allow somebody to remain intheir home when they get out of
(08:55):
the hospital and out of theskilled nursing.
Getting their bodies back intoorder.
And that's when ready to age inplace can be an issue.
The bathroom I want to point outbesides having 36 inch wide
doors in the bathroom, all themain rooms you live in, the
(09:16):
living room the bedroom, thebathroom, the kitchen.
All of those need to be walkerand or wheelchair friendly.
And specifically the bathroomneeds to have a minimum of a
five foot wide shower so thatyou can access the shower to be
able to bathe.
The flooring, it's gotta be anons slick type flooring because
(09:41):
ceramic tile gets wet.
You may slip and fall if itdoesn't have something skid
proof to prevent that.
Toilets sometimes being theregular high toilet, we like, I
call them comfort height toiletinstead of a DA type toilets,
but they're just a little bithigher, more comfortable,
prevents a lot of falls.
(10:02):
These are things that should beconsidered if somebody's wanting
to renovate to age in place.
Some places will need morerenovations than other.
The older the home will requiremore renovations, most likely,
unless your designer, wasalready thinking of these things
and trying to make a mastersuite more compatible for.
(10:25):
Aging in place.
David Lowry (10:26):
Are these going to be expensive fixes, Jim?
Jim McWhirter (10:28):
It depends on how you wanna look at it.
My first response is,unfortunately, the bathroom and
the kitchen are the two mostexpensive rooms in a home to
renovate.
And it's because they involve alot of plumbing and different
things that may have to bereplaced, modified concrete
(10:50):
removed to be able toaccommodate that five foot wide
shower.
I like to design the bathroom towhere no matter what happens in
the future, and I like to think,okay, if my mom had to be in a
wheelchair, she needs to have afive foot minimum spin in the
(11:11):
center of that bathroom inbetween the shower, the
laboratory, the toilet, soeverything is comfortable and
not too tight not to feel likeyou're squeezed in there.
That's when people can fall.
I've seen bathroom remodels Ihave taken, extra bedrooms.
You've got a three bedroom home,one person living in it.
(11:32):
So, many times we get lucky in acloset backs that main bathroom
that we're wanting to renovate.
And we can utilize the space ofthat closet and still keep it a
bedroom, but put a separatewardrobe cabinet for guests or
whatever to have a place to hangclothes.
But the most important thing isto think about this future Now,
(11:55):
yes, that's expensive.
I've seen people spend up to$30,000 to get the bathroom they
wanted with a certain type ofwhirlpool tub and all these
different things.
You can go as fancy as you want,you can just deal with the most
immediate and save that money.
(12:16):
But in my mind, you have to lookat it like, if you're really
determined and you're reallypretty healthy, you're already
not having some health issues,then by all means invest in
that.
And the money you're investingin that is still going to not
hurt the value of your home.
(12:36):
In fact, it most likely willhelp you get the money back out
of it, in my opinion.
And I've seen that happen.
That's why I can say thatbecause you have other people
that are looking for that,seeking for that.
In my opinion, you should notattack renovating a house for
mom or dad or both if at leastone of them is already having
(13:02):
some health issues.
I think you're better off tolook at other options because it
may be a situation depending ontheir age and what their health
issues are that they may want toconsider researching retirement
type living and even assistedliving.
Living alone is something thatcan be very challenging,
(13:26):
especially if you don't havechildren or loved ones that live
close by that can check on them.
And one of the things we want tocombat is depression.
When somebody loses a spouse orsomething and they're lonely,
it's okay to live alone.
It's not okay to be lonely.
(13:46):
Loneliness is a stepping stoneto depression and depression.
It can be treated withmedications, with therapy, but
so many people don't recognizeit quick enough.
So educate yourself on that.
If you have, aged parent, anadult age, parent, or loved one
that's living alone.
And we train our nurse aides ondepression regularly and
(14:09):
recognizing signs of depressionand all.
David Lowry (14:12):
That is a very good piece of advice.
Don Drew (14:14):
So a good place to start would be for me to contact
one of these certified aging inplace specialists and get the
ball rolling to do an evaluationon a home and then collaborate
with other health caregivers andso forth.
Is that also true?
Jim McWhirter (14:27):
Have somebody, like a certified age in place
specialist.
There's a handful of us in theOklahoma City metro area, for
example, that are qualified tohelp with that and do a
walkthrough.
We can almost tell you what tolook for on a podcast like this
and walk around with a tapemeasure and see how things are
(14:49):
or have somebody come out andlook at it with you and give you
some rough cost ideas.
Don Drew (14:54):
Jim, are you aware of any government programs or
resources that can help offsetthe cost?
Let's say I have a parent thatin a 1980s house and they don't
have the resources to pay tohave that modified Jim, are you
aware of any government programsor resources that can help
offset the cost?
Let's say I have a parent thatin a 1980s house and they don't
(15:18):
have the resources to pay tohave that modified so they could
age in place.
Are you aware of any help outthere?
so they could age in place.
Are you aware of any help outthere?
Jim McWhirter (15:29):
Don, as a matter of fact, for veterans, I have
had the VA pay up to$7,000 torenovate a shower to combat a
veteran who is struggling with awheelchair and needing to be
able to bathe and all.
And I've had them do that as arenovation.
(15:50):
I've had them assist themfinancially in new construction
even.
And I'm sure that program isstill available.
The VA even pays well over 1900a month for assisted living.
And that program, I'm told, isstill out there.
I haven't had anyone use it inseveral years, but it's
(16:12):
something to research dependingon a person and their situation,
disability and all that, theywant to check with all of the
programs through DHS and all ofthose to see what's available.
David Lowry (16:25):
Jim, my dad was becoming more of a fall hazard,
he fell several times and we'dsay to him, Dad, you need to use
your walker.
And he would refuse to do it.
How do we talk to our agingparents and loved ones when it's
time for them to start using awalker, start making some of
these home modifications when wejust find them resistant to
(16:48):
doing those things?
Jim McWhirter (16:49):
That's a good question, David, because the
quickest way to answer that is,this term called stubbornness
and...
Don Drew (16:58):
Yeah, David and I know little about that.
But go ahead.
Jim McWhirter (17:02):
(Laughter) Yeah, I was gonna say, I think all
three of us can be the threestooges on stubbornness
probably.
But it's it's a challenge forsure.
And my mom she at 92 was prettyhealthy and everything, but she
would get up at midnight andstart looking through her closet
(17:22):
and stuff and not use herwalker.
And we kept reminding her, andshe fell one night and broke her
hip.
And, that that took her took herenergy away from her and several
months later she was gone.
Because of that fall, that's whyI'm so passionate about
recommending people reallyconsider the fall hazards in a
(17:43):
home.
You can't totally preventsomebody from falling, but you
can do a lot of things to makeit less likely to happen as long
as they're cooperating withtheir physician and medications
and nutrition and all the thingsI mentioned earlier.
(18:03):
But yeah, we have a battle ofstubbornness with the older we
get.
One of the difficult thingspeople ask me is how do I talk
to my dad about not drivinganymore?
And that's a tough one becausethat's like taking their freedom
away.
They've been driving since theywere 16 and now maybe they're
90.
And think about how excited wewere when we got our driver's
(18:27):
license and now the thought of,wow, what would I do if I
couldn't drive anymore?
My father-in-law lived atWellington Park until he was two
weeks from 102, and he was stilldriving at 99 and it really
bothered us.
It didn't matter what we did totry to discourage him.
But I followed him one morningand it amazed me.
(18:51):
He's 99 and he is still a safe,great driver.
But my mom, when she was 89, shewas scared of driving anymore.
She said, I'm not drivinganymore, I'm selling my car.
And I said, great.
But that's one of thosestubbornness things, that's a
challenge because people arelooking at their freedom and
you're taking away my freedom.
Now, you wanna spend my money tomake this bathroom shower bigger
(19:15):
when I've been taking a bath inthis tub for 49 years.
So there's a psychological thingthat we have to deal with and
we're going to be faced with ittoo.
And as I mentioned, we'reobviously stubborn people too.
David Lowry (19:30):
Well, there are some really interesting
modifications that can be madein homes today, and some of them
are exciting.
I've seen some of these showerswhere you can step in, sit down,
and close the door.
Some of those look kinda likethey could be fun to have in
your house.
Jim McWhirter (19:45):
Showers are a big deal nowadays.
So many people in today's marketwant a big shower.
In fact, in new construction, wedon't necessarily see very many
bathtubs anymore, especially inthe master suite.
I designed one shower 10 foot by10 foot.
In starter homes, that's abedroom.
(20:05):
And the shower spray heads thatcome out of the ceiling,
crossways, all of the walls ofthe shower and it's like being
under a waterfall or something,but people love it.
And there's a lot ofstate-of-the-art things in
showers that you basically wheelright in.
And at that point of theplanning when you have the
(20:26):
space, then take advantage ofit.
So, a shower is a greatinvestment and I feel like you
get your money back out of it.
Especially if it's in thatmaster suite.
That's a great renovation to do.
Don Drew (20:39):
Are, there's some kinds of modifications that are
pretty typical?
Jim McWhirter (20:42):
Let's put the square footage in the main
living area in our bedroom andwalk in closet and bathroom and
kitchen and the places where wereally live all the time and
less in extra rooms.
Go ahead and renovate a bathroomdoor from a 24 inch wide to a 36
(21:02):
inch wide, it doesn't matter ifyou decide to go ahead and sell
the house.
The average person is not gonnathink about the width of that
door being wider than what itwas when it was built.
I just, I've never ran intoanybody that was concerned about
something like that.
If you're gonna have to buy anew toilet do a comfort height
(21:25):
toilet unless you're a shortperson because, you may be more
comfortable with the regularheight.
Used to we kept bathroomvanities at 30 to 32 inches
high.
The standard was 32 inches foryears and years Now, they're 36,
like a kitchen countertopheight.
People like them because it'seasier to wash their hair in.
(21:47):
But yeah, those are those areall features that I feel like
help accommodate the investmentfor mom or dad or whoever, or
for yourself, for your unknownfuture.
And still not be throwing moneyaway that you'll never see
again.
I read all these surveys and sothat's where I get a lot of my
(22:09):
information that I'm sharingwith you.
This isn't just my opinion, it'sbased on NAHB research and all.
David Lowry (22:17):
The other day I went to my physician for my
annual they don't call'emphysicals anymore, but on
Medicare...
Don Drew (22:24):
I think they're called fogey physicals.
David Lowry (22:26):
Fogey physicals, right?
and they were asking mequestions, and these are the
first times I've been askedthese questions, and I remember
feeling Oh my goodness.
I've crossed a line, haven't I?
Things like, do you have grabbars?
Do you have to step oversomething to get into your
shower?
Do you have things you can holdonto?
(22:46):
They were asking me all thesequestions and I realized, Okay
this is now a part of thequestions I'm going to be
getting for the rest of my lifebecause I've crossed that second
half of life where they askthose.
Who should I collaborate with toget this done correctly?
Jim McWhirter (23:01):
You mentioned grab bars and things like that.
I'm big on this terminology.
Grab bars seems negative to me.
So, I call them balance barsbecause they're just to give you
a little balance when you stepout of a shower or something.
They can be added so easily andthey don't have to be until you
really need them.
David Lowry (23:21):
Jim, if you were to create a shower or modify your
house for a shower, describe howwide, how deep and so forth you
think it ought to be.
Jim McWhirter (23:29):
Well, I'll give you an example of one that I
designed recently, and it was aseven foot by seven foot.
And, that pretty muchaccommodates just about anything
in any one.
It has a 48 inch wide opening,which I just mentioned.
36 inch wide doors are plenty,but there was plenty of room to
(23:50):
add as many balance bars assomebody could possibly need.
And sometimes you can put whatwe know is really a safe place
for a balance bar.
But then you get somebody thatstarts trying to use it and it
just doesn't fit them.
So the beauty is that you canadd.
To where they need it.
You've just gotta plan for it inthe beginning with all of the
(24:13):
structural backing to allow nomatter where in that seven foot
by seven foot area, as manybalance bars as make somebody
happy than they feel morecomfortable, they feel safer.
And that's the goal.
Don Drew (24:30):
A lot of our listeners are not in the Oklahoma City
area.
You mentioned the certifiedaging in Place specialist
designation as being developedand overseen by the National
Association of Home Builders.
Is it fair to say, Jim, that formost of our listeners, if they
will go to the local NationalAssociation of Home Builders
webpage in their metropolitanarea, they can probably find a
(24:54):
list of certified aging in placespecialists.
Is that true?
Jim McWhirter (24:56):
Yes, and, you can actually call the central
Oklahoma Home BuildersAssociation.
It's 4 0 5 8 4 3 1 5 0 8, andget a list of the certified
aging in place specialists thatwe have in that area.
And they can also lead you on tothe information to receive from
(25:18):
the State Home BuildersAssociation that will most
likely have anybody in theirarea.
Otherwise outta state, go tohome Builders Association,
whatever the closest local orstate Home Builders Association
is, and they should be able toprovide them with a list of
qualified, certified people.
David Lowry (25:40):
Jim, since you've worked as a owner operator of a
retirement center when is itmaking more sense to move to an
assisted living place as opposedto remodeling your home?
What are your thoughts on that?
Jim McWhirter (25:54):
Normally that's going to be a financial decision
in my opinion.
Here's a term to consider, andthat's called continuing care.
What that means is on the samecampus, it's like I sought out
to have enough land to where wecould do what we needed to do.
So we've got 25 acres here onI-40 that we can continue
expanding.
(26:14):
But it begins with driving intoan independent living community.
And what that means is there'sindependent living homes.
For example, I designed 900square foot one bedrooms, 1400
square foot, two bedrooms.
Those are very spacious, veryopen plans.
Has many of the features thatwe're talking about right now.
(26:37):
But people live independently.
Now they do have access toactivities and different things.
But you go from independentliving and you look at, Well,
all I have to do is write onecheck that covers my lease, my
utilities.
I don't have to pay homeownersinsurance anymore.
(26:59):
I don't have to pay propertytaxes anymore.
I don't have to pay all of thisstuff that I've been having to
pay and paying the neighbor boyto mow my lawn.
All of those different homeownerresponsibilities and maintenance
and have to repaint the outside,buy a new roof.
(27:21):
Insurance is so high now and itdoesn't cover near what it's
supposed to, replacing a roof inOklahoma.
So a lot of people when theyassess the cost to renovate the
home and look at what theirincome is and what they get from
retirement funds, socialsecurity, all those different
income, and then what theirexpenses are, it's easy to weigh
(27:44):
the facts that, hey, maybe Ishould consider moving into this
independent living home.
I have neighbors there.
We'll have activities we can dotogether and potluck dinners,
and the town hall and differentthings like that.
If things require me to need alittle bit of assistance, like
from a nurse aid or a nurse orsomebody, then I can move in
(28:09):
right next door into theassisted living building, and
there I've got three nutritiousmeals a day.
I've got somebody that's gonnahandle my medications.
I don't have to worry when it'stime for me to take a pill.
A nurse aid is going to bring itto me and I have activities I
can enjoy.
(28:30):
There's exercise classes,there's crafts to do, there's
entertainers that come severaltimes a week.
And then if something happensthat maybe somebody gets into
one of the dementias,Alzheimer's, anything like that,
the continuing care is rightthere.
If you follow what I'm saying.
(28:50):
And I know you all are familiarwith this.
And it all begins with theassessment of the existing home.
If that's what somebody'sthinking about doing.
We have some people that say,Well, we've got this money.
Mom's got this money put back.
We can invest in fixing ourhouse, her house, whatever.
(29:12):
And for as long as we can, thenit'll be there for us in the
future, whatever.
Many people decide that it'sjust a whole lot less expensive
and easier to find the rightcontinuing care place for them.
David Lowry (29:29):
Jim, thank you so much for being our guest today
on Peaceful Life Radio,
Jim McWhirter (29:33):
You're sure welcome, and thank you.
This is something I'm verypassionate about from what I've
done over the years, especiallythe past almost 16 years and
all...
jim McWhirter, president
Don Drew (29:44):
and CEO of Gemini Builders owner of Wellington
Park, an assisted livingcommunity and Certified Aging
and Place Specialist.
Jim, thank you so much for beingwith us today.
I really appreciate yourcontribution.
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