February 23, 2025 • 22 mins
In this episode of Peaceful Life Radio, hosts David Lowry and Don Drew delve into the timeless teachings of Aristotle, focusing on his concept of eudaimonia, or human flourishing. They explore Aristotle's life, his influence on Western philosophy, and how his principles relate to modern ideas of happiness and personal growth. The discussion includes insights from psychologists like Abraham Maslow and Carol Ryff, who have built upon Aristotle's work. Key topics include the importance of moral and intellectual virtues, the distinction between happiness and material wealth, and practical advice for living a life of excellence and fulfillment.
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:34 Introducing Aristotle
01:03 Understanding Eudaimonia
02:27 Happiness and Flourishing
06:42 Goal-Directed Happiness
07:30 The Concept of Ends and Means
11:44 External and Internal Prosperity
14:18 Moral and Intellectual Excellence
19:51 Aristotle's Cardinal Virtues
21:16 Conclusion and Farewell
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
David Lowry (00:00):
Hello, everyone.
(00:00):
Welcome to Peaceful Life Radio.
I'm David Lowry and with metoday is Don Drew.
Don Drew (00:06):
I'm excited to be here, David.
I think we're gonna have somefun today.
David Lowry (00:08):
It's gonna be a great program because we're
talking about some values of avery ancient Greek man.
Anyway, but before we do that,Don, I want to remind our
listeners to,
Don Drew (00:21):
Yep.
We want to remind all ourlisteners to download and share
and tell everyone about ourpodcast, invite them to listen.
We're getting some really greatguests and covering a lot of
wonderful topics, and we wouldlove to hear from you.
As we began to move towardsconscious aging, it's only
appropriate that we go tosomeone who's really old.
(00:43):
Aristotle.
Aristotle.
Tell us who Aristotle was.
Now, maybe not all our listenersreally know.
I'm sure they've all heard ofhim.
But who was he?
David Lowry (00:50):
Well, he lived in 350 BCE, before the common era.
Aristotle probably has nounpublished thought.
He's written about science,oratory, speech, how to persuade
people.
The guy was brilliant, aphilosopher, and one of his
favorite areas was humanflourishing.
And here's the word we want youto know, eudaimonia.
Don Drew (01:14):
Eudaimonia.
I believe, if I recallcorrectly, Aristotle is a
student of Socrates and reallyeverything we know about
Socrates through Aristotle.
David Lowry (01:24):
Absolutely.
And there's a lesson for ustoday that proves an old point
that no matter where you go backin time, people are still going
to be people and thingsimportant back then are
important to us now will beimportant to us in the future.
And one of them has to do withhuman flourishing or eudaimonia.
Don Drew (01:44):
And this was also related to a man's search or
human search for the highestgood.
David Lowry (01:50):
Yes.
And that's the thing.
Don, I remember being asked toimagine the most noble thought I
could think of.
And you know what?
I had a hard time doing it.
What is the most noble thing youcan think of?
What is the highest good you canimagine?
Is it world peace or endinghunger?
It's a worthy question to askourselves.
(02:11):
And when we talk about apeaceful life and having the
kind of life we want, we want tomake sure that we're filling it
with things that help usflourish, make us happy, and
also bring good to the people weknow and love.
Don Drew (02:24):
So, Aristotle was on to something.
What was it?
David Lowry (02:27):
He came up with this word that sometimes is
called happiness in English, butIt's really almost a
mistranslation.
Eudaimonia is more of a termthat talks about the flourishing
we get.
Happiness is almost like astate, but flourishing is
continual renewal, living yourbest self.
It's when you're at your best.
(02:48):
It's like the tree in bloom,those sorts of things.
Don Drew (02:51):
This sounds a lot like our American psychologist,
Abraham Maslow, that had a termhe called self-actualization,
the human reaching the fullnessof themselves.
David Lowry (03:01):
And that's what Aristotle introduced all those
years ago.
There's a psychologist by thename of Carol Reif, and she
talks about eudaimonia and selfacceptance.
Being OK with yourself orpositive relations with others,
autonomy.
We all like to do things in ourown way and feel like, hey, I
(03:22):
know what I'm doing and I can dothis in my own way.
Environmental mastery, purposein life and personal growth.
Those are some of the thingsthat she borrowed from Aristotle
as she creates this scale forhelping in her psychology
practice, to understand whatdoes it mean to be a flourishing
human being?
These are things that give uspurpose in life.
(03:44):
As my wife, Cary says, it makesyou want to put your feet down
on the floor in the morning.
It's a reason to get out of bed.
Don Drew (03:50):
David, what is eudaimonia's highest or ultimate
good?
David Lowry (03:54):
If you were talking to Aristotle, he would say, the
ultimate human good ishappiness.
And when I first heard that, Ithought, hmm, I'm not sure.
Don Drew (04:06):
It sounds like it could be kind of selfish if
you're not careful.
David Lowry (04:08):
Or is it hedonism, like having any sensual pleasure
that you want and beingabsolutely unrepentant about
doing things for yourself at theexpense of other people?
But he's not really talkingabout that.
He's not saying that you shouldavoid all pain.
But he might point out thatsometimes we might have a little
bit of pain because we believeit's going to do good for us
(04:30):
later down the road.
So, maybe an athlete will dothose hard workouts, so that
when they compete, they have achance at winning something big,
like the Super Bowl.
Don Drew (04:40):
For years now, we've had a lot of difficulty, I
think, both culturally andpsychologically defining exactly
what it is that constituteshappiness in a person's life.
Sometimes what we expecthappiness to be is culturally
bound.
For instance, here in the UnitedStates, high levels of
materialism and consumerismdrive our culture in many ways.
(05:02):
So, the idea of gettinghappiness from having and
acquiring things is prettydominant.
David Lowry (05:08):
Let me ask you a question, Don.
If you're a poor person, butyou're In a state of happiness
and flourishing, how is thatdifferent from a wealthy person
who's experiencing the samething, feeling like I'm happy
and I'm flourishing?
Is the richer person happier?
And is there a degree where thatperson has more than the other
(05:28):
person as far as the emotion andfeeling of well being is
concerned?
And the answer is not really.
When you are in that state whereyou're happy, it doesn't matter
whether you're rich or poor,you're experiencing the same
emotion.
So when we get to that happyplace, it's the same for all of
us.
Don Drew (05:46):
It's really something that's internal.
I think one of the traps we fallinto is we think that if the
conditions, or the money, or theother person, the way they're
acting, or name any number ofdifferent conditions, if that's
right, or when that's right,then I'll be happy.
And we find that never happened.
So we've got to start inwardly.
(06:07):
And I think that's a big part ofwhat Aristotle was trying to
tell us.
David Lowry (06:10):
Happiness is a thing that comes within.
And sometimes when we get allthose things that we want we
discover, but I'm still nothappy.
I'm still not flourishing.
We want more and more and more.
And we think maybe I just needto try something else.
We get into this spinning cycleof trying to chase after things
and it's not doing what we needto do.
(06:32):
But hold on just a secondbecause not only did Aristotle
say happiness was the deal, he'sgoing to tell you how to get
there.
And that's the fun thing to talkabout today.
Don Drew (06:41):
Yeah.
One of the things I think hesaid was that human conduct is
goal directed.
What did he mean by that?
What constitutes being goaldirected happiness?
David Lowry (06:50):
Even when we're not thinking about it, most of us
instinctively want to do thingsthat bring us pleasure and
instinctively don't cause pain.
In other words, most everybody Iknow wants to have a happy life
and not a painful life.
Don Drew (07:05):
As I think about that, I'm thinking about how a person
might do dysfunctional things insome effort to meet some need
they have.
And I think this is almost adefinition of some kind of a
psychological difficulty orproblem a person is having.
Quite often we do what works forus, right?
And it may be misdirected.
It may not be leading us towardhappiness, but it's helping us
(07:27):
somehow get other things wewant.
And we get our own internalwires crossed.
These goals that you're talkingabout from philosophy, are
directed quite intentionallytowards things that are good and
helpful to the individual.
David Lowry (07:42):
Yes, he'll call them ends and means.
Some people will say, I wantmoney.
But it's not the money theywant, but what the money can do
for them.
Money is an end to some otherthing they believe will make
them happy.
Maybe it's owning a piece ofland or having a nice home.
We have to begin thinking isthat really the thing I want, or
(08:03):
is there something I want, andmaybe there's a way of getting
that that doesn't require theother thing.
It sort of reminds me of thisstory about a fisherman who's
got a boat.
You heard that story?
Don Drew (08:15):
Yes, and he goes out and he fishes every day and he
catches the fish and he bringsthem back and he grills them on
the beach.
And one day a wealthy man comesby, tries the fish and says,
man, this is the best fish I'veever had.
You know what?
I can help you get another boator two and you can put a fleet
of boats out there, catch two,three times the fish you're
catching right now.
You'll make more money.
(08:36):
Then you can buy even more boatsand hire more people.
You'll have wealth, can buildyour house on the beach, and
have this wonderful life and soforth.
And then when you get to be oldenough, like me, you can retire
and just sit around and relaxand fish.
And the fisherman looks at himand says, I think I'll just stay
where I'm at.
(08:57):
He's already got it.
David Lowry (08:58):
I've already got this.
I go home when I want to, I fishwhen I want to, I eat fish when
I want to.
Sometimes we don't have to havemoney to do the thing we really
want.
I've met people in the mountainswhere I like to go and maybe
they don't have the biggestplace, but they're living in the
mountains, the ones that theylove.
And they say, I wouldn't tradeit for anything.
Some of our goals to gethappiness are more noble and
(09:22):
valuable than others, but all ofthem can move us towards this
flourishing that we want.
The journey is part of it,right?
So the ends and means thatAristotle talks about, isn't
when I get all of this, then Iwill have happiness.
You're getting happiness allalong the way if you'll pay
attention to the journey.
Sometimes it's the acquiring ofthings along the way.
(09:44):
It's the learning of a newskill, the reading of a new book
that opens your mind andsuddenly, you're ready for the
next big thought.
Don Drew (09:52):
One of the challenges that comes from this ends-means
discussion is that a lot offolks have excused awful means
in order to achieve what theyperceive to be a good end.
Aristotle has a counter forthat.
He gives us some generalcharacteristics of happiness and
the kinds of things we should bedoing in order to be on the
right path towards happiness andflourishing.
David Lowry (10:14):
He says that we shouldn't want it just because
we want stuff.
If that's the end of it, it'llprobably be fairly disappointing
when the stuff breaks or wedon't have it anymore.
But happiness is something youhave forever.
Don, I know your kids and mykids are all raised.
But the moments we had all thatfun together, you never lose
(10:34):
that, right?
I don't know where all theclothes went, where the bicycles
went that I bought for them.
I don't know where thattrampoline is that I had for
them at one time, but I do knowwhere the happiness is.
It's in our hearts and in ourrelationship with each other.
You never forget that.
Don Drew (10:48):
I had lunch with my son.
He's 38 years old, had lunchwith him earlier today.
And we actually talked aboutsome favorite things from his
childhood and so forth.
Not once did he mentionedsomething that he got.
David Lowry (11:00):
You can plan for your happiness.
Aristotle says, you're going tohave to use your brain.
It's a rational exercise.
He says, one of the greatestthings that you have is your
ability to reason.
And reasoning is what will leadyou to happiness.
In other words, there areseveral things that we do to
plan for happiness.
Don Drew (11:17):
Happiness results from a rational life focused on the
pursuit of excellence.
David Lowry (11:22):
Aristotle calls it Arete.
A R E T E.
He says that's excellence.
Excellence at what you do.
So if you're a guitar player,you play with excellence.
If you're a teacher, you do thejob with great flourish, right?
Don Drew (11:36):
You're reminding me right now of, what was it?
Bill and Ted's excellentadventure.
I think I came out in the 1990s,and they were always saying be
excellent, right?
David Lowry (11:44):
Be excellent.
Don and I just pointed out thatsome of our happy moments come
from the memories we have of ourchildren and the fun times we
had together.
In a sense, that's prosperity.
If you think about it.
There are things that make youprosperous because of their
beauty and the wonderfulmemories you have.
(12:04):
And then there's some thingsthat make you prosperous because
they create a situation whereyou control your environment and
give yourself the time to dowhat you need to do or enjoy
life for comfort and security.
Let's talk about externalprosperity.
Don Drew (12:20):
So, what prosperity is for me?
Let me just start here and saythat, the older I get, the
things that mean the most to meare maintaining relationships
with my friends and my family.
That is something that feelsgood both from a mental and
physical security standpoint.
It makes me happy.
It brings me a great deal ofjoy.
(12:42):
I've been very blessed in termsof money and I don't know if I
have much status or power, butthose kinds of things have
worked well for me.
But that won't necessarily bethe case in all of our
listeners.
David Lowry (12:53):
You do need circumstantial security, we call
it.
It is good to have some money.
Now, how much money do you need?
Well, enough to live ascomfortably as you can to pay
the bills so that you don'tworry about whether or not
something's going to be takenfrom you.
You need a roof over your head.
And it's nice if you havesomething to carry you from
(13:15):
place to place, a nice car anddecent clothes to wear and
things like that.
My wife and I once had a fairlybig home and we downsized
because frankly, we wanted ahome that was small enough for
the two of us to manage withoutfeeling like we were just
working the home all of thetime.
Just a nice, comfortable placeto live, right?
(13:36):
it varies from person to person.
Don Drew (13:38):
Yeah, I get that.
Well, what about internal goods?
David Lowry (13:41):
I loved what you said earlier about family and
friends, and we all need peaceof mind.
If I were to give advice that Ididn't get when I was younger, I
would say don't do things that'sgoing to rob you of your peace
of mind.
There could be a temptation comeyour way, and you ought to say,
can I really live with doingthis thing?
(14:04):
Is this going to haunt or rob meof my peace of mind?
Don't sacrifice integrity, ruinyour relationships, burn your
friendships.
Think of things that bringhappiness and peace of mind and
make sure you're doing those.
Don Drew (14:18):
David, a few minutes ago, you mentioned the Greek
word, Arete, the word that'sused for excellence by
Aristotle.
There's two different types.
The first type is what's calledintellectual excellence, and
it's going to focus on twoprimary qualities.
Number one, the rationality, thequality of your rationality, the
quality of your thinking.
And the other part of that oneis non rational excellence, such
(14:40):
as paying attention to bodilyhealth, physical conditioning,
and so on.
What's the second one?
David Lowry (14:46):
The second one is moral excellence.
That's where you act inaccordance with your reasons.
What are your primary values?
So, let's say that your primaryvalues are respect.
If respect is important to youand that you show respect to
others, make sure you are doingmoral things that show respect
(15:06):
to others and include it in yourdaily things.
Don, it could be something assimple as walking down the
street and you see a person somepeople wouldn't speak to because
maybe they're asking for money,but instead you greet them and
say good morning and treat themjust like any other person
because respect is important toyou.
(15:27):
It's one of your values.
It's one of your virtues, youmight say.
And it's your moral excellence.
My family believes it'simportant to help people have
food to eat.
So, Don and I, several yearsago, built a blessing box, which
we installed near a church, toshare with people who have food
insecurities.
When we go to the store and buygroceries, we also spend a
(15:49):
little extra money to buy thingsto put into that box.
What we are doing is followingup the moral reasoning and
excellence that says it'simportant to help those who are
in need, especially those whoare hungry.
Don Drew (16:02):
And one of the biggest challenges I believe that comes
from this discussion of moralityhas to do with our definition of
whether something that we callmoral has good or negative
outcomes.
And we beat each other upsometimes over this.
Okay.
So on the one hand, I might sayyeah, David, we've got a
blessing box, we are concernedabout people in the local
(16:23):
community don't have enoughfood, so we're doing what we can
to help with that.
Others might look at that andsay, Well, you mean to do well,
but you're not feedingeverybody.
First person there getseverything that's in the box,
which happens from time to time,right?
So there's an unfairness, if youwill, in all of that.
How does Aristotle play intothis with his rationale?
David Lowry (16:45):
I don't have Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics
beside me here, but I believeAristotle would basically say
that while we can't solve allthe world's problems, what we
can do is live in our moralreasoning.
It is true I can't feed thewhole world with that little
blessing box, I'm still tryingto live out my values.
Don Drew (17:04):
So, what we're arriving at is they need to be
true to your own rational, moralthinking, which is how we also
develop what Aristotle wouldtalk about as virtues, which is
really important.
How then are excellent virtuesrequired?
How do we get these virtues?
In early life, if we'refortunate, we have a lot of
great moral training from ourfamily or whoever's raising us
(17:27):
and so on.
But it also takes practice,practicing right thinking,
practicing moral action and soon.
David Lowry (17:34):
You're absolutely right.
It's practice.
He calls it practice.
You actually practice yourmorals.
If you say you are a person whobelieves in respect, then you've
got to incorporate that in yourbehavior as often as you can.
People ought to say, when Ithink of so and so, I think of a
respectful human being.
They are always showing respectto people.
(17:55):
They should give you instanceafter instance of it because
you're demonstrating thatvirtue, if you will when people
are around you.
Aristotle has what he calls agolden mean.
You've heard about the walkingthe center path, if you will.
Let's say that, you want to berespectful to people?
On one side of the road isdisrespect.
You don't care about anybody'srespect.
(18:16):
And then on the other side of ityou're being obsequious, a
doormat.
Yeah.
You're just being a doormat oryou're praising everybody for
stupid stuff and it's insincere.
Mm-hmm So we have to fine tuneeach virtue so we're not
overdoing or underdoing it, butit makes sense the way that
we're doing it.
Don Drew (18:36):
Yeah.
So, according to Aristotle, themean, which means the middle or
the average, okay, with thecenter path, if you will, let's
just take a look at a couple ofthese examples.
For instance, we pretty muchuniversally see bravery as a
virtue, right?
And it's what we would expectfrom somebody.
If they're deficient in theirbravery, they act cowardly.
(18:59):
We consider that a vice, right?
That's a problem.
That's one direction.
And then if we go the other way,if somebody is so brave that
they act rashly, which meanswithout rationality, in other
words, just being brave withoutthinking about it, okay, it's no
longer bravery, it's rashness,it can be very dangerous, right?
David Lowry (19:18):
Being truthful is another one.
We all want to be honest in whatwe say.
We want to say things that aretrue and not false.
But some people are very selfdeprecating about the truth.
Oh, no, I couldn't do that.
I'm really not good.
When really they're very good atsomething.
So there's an intellectualhonesty that we own up to.
Yeah, I can do certain thingsreally well.
(19:39):
On the other hand, we could beboastful and overdo it.
So, going one way or the othercan make it a vice in
Aristotle's world and ours aswell.
Don Drew (19:49):
Yeah, that's really great, David.
Let's talk about Aristotle'scardinal moral virtues.
David Lowry (19:55):
When you think about a flourishing life, to tie
a neat bow on everything.
Aristotle is basically saying,if you want to be happy, you got
to use your reason, think aboutthe things you're excellent at,
and you got to do them.
Use that to help you acquiremoney and prosperity you need,
maybe the social standing youneed./ Develop your friends.
(20:17):
And then he says, you need tolive your values.
And he's going to suggest fourof them.
The four that he lists aretemperance, which is restraint
and self control.
Prudence, which we wouldtranslate as wisdom being wise.
Justice, which is being fair topeople.
And fortitude, which is courage,endurance, and grit and that
(20:41):
sort of thing.
Don Drew (20:42):
So he identified these four as being the virtues that
are important for everyone tohave.
We can have others in abundanceand so on, and we're all
different but these four weshould seek individually as good
citizens of society.
David Lowry (20:56):
I'm on team Aristotle on this one, because I
want to be around people who arejust and fair.
I want to be around people whohave self control.
I want to be around wise people.
And of course, I like to bearound people that when times
are tough, they know how to meetit, wisely.
And I think that is a greatthing for living a peaceful life
as well.
Don Drew (21:16):
I just want to send a thank you out to Aristotle,
wherever you are.
Thanks for all that you gave us.
We really appreciate it.
And thanks to our listeners forbeing with us this week on
Peaceful Life Radio.
We hope you have a great weekand we'll see you next week.
Hello, everyone.
(00:00):
Welcome to Peaceful Life Radio.
I'm David Lowry and with metoday is Don Drew.
Don Drew (00:06):
I'm excited to be here, David.
I think we're gonna have somefun today.
David Lowry (00:08):
It's gonna be a great program because we're
talking about some values of avery ancient Greek man.
Anyway, but before we do that,Don, I want to remind our
listeners to,
Don Drew (00:21):
Yep.
We want to remind all ourlisteners to download and share
and tell everyone about ourpodcast, invite them to listen.
We're getting some really greatguests and covering a lot of
wonderful topics, and we wouldlove to hear from you.
As we began to move towardsconscious aging, it's only
appropriate that we go tosomeone who's really old.
(00:43):
Aristotle.
Aristotle.
Tell us who Aristotle was.
Now, maybe not all our listenersreally know.
I'm sure they've all heard ofhim.
But who was he?
David Lowry (00:50):
Well, he lived in 350 BCE, before the common era.
Aristotle probably has nounpublished thought.
He's written about science,oratory, speech, how to persuade
people.
The guy was brilliant, aphilosopher, and one of his
favorite areas was humanflourishing.
And here's the word we want youto know, eudaimonia.
Don Drew (01:14):
Eudaimonia.
I believe, if I recallcorrectly, Aristotle is a
student of Socrates and reallyeverything we know about
Socrates through Aristotle.
David Lowry (01:24):
Absolutely.
And there's a lesson for ustoday that proves an old point
that no matter where you go backin time, people are still going
to be people and thingsimportant back then are
important to us now will beimportant to us in the future.
And one of them has to do withhuman flourishing or eudaimonia.
Don Drew (01:44):
And this was also related to a man's search or
human search for the highestgood.
David Lowry (01:50):
Yes.
And that's the thing.
Don, I remember being asked toimagine the most noble thought I
could think of.
And you know what?
I had a hard time doing it.
What is the most noble thing youcan think of?
What is the highest good you canimagine?
Is it world peace or endinghunger?
It's a worthy question to askourselves.
(02:11):
And when we talk about apeaceful life and having the
kind of life we want, we want tomake sure that we're filling it
with things that help usflourish, make us happy, and
also bring good to the people weknow and love.
Don Drew (02:24):
So, Aristotle was on to something.
What was it?
David Lowry (02:27):
He came up with this word that sometimes is
called happiness in English, butIt's really almost a
mistranslation.
Eudaimonia is more of a termthat talks about the flourishing
we get.
Happiness is almost like astate, but flourishing is
continual renewal, living yourbest self.
It's when you're at your best.
(02:48):
It's like the tree in bloom,those sorts of things.
Don Drew (02:51):
This sounds a lot like our American psychologist,
Abraham Maslow, that had a termhe called self-actualization,
the human reaching the fullnessof themselves.
David Lowry (03:01):
And that's what Aristotle introduced all those
years ago.
There's a psychologist by thename of Carol Reif, and she
talks about eudaimonia and selfacceptance.
Being OK with yourself orpositive relations with others,
autonomy.
We all like to do things in ourown way and feel like, hey, I
(03:22):
know what I'm doing and I can dothis in my own way.
Environmental mastery, purposein life and personal growth.
Those are some of the thingsthat she borrowed from Aristotle
as she creates this scale forhelping in her psychology
practice, to understand whatdoes it mean to be a flourishing
human being?
These are things that give uspurpose in life.
(03:44):
As my wife, Cary says, it makesyou want to put your feet down
on the floor in the morning.
It's a reason to get out of bed.
Don Drew (03:50):
David, what is eudaimonia's highest or ultimate
good?
David Lowry (03:54):
If you were talking to Aristotle, he would say, the
ultimate human good ishappiness.
And when I first heard that, Ithought, hmm, I'm not sure.
Don Drew (04:06):
It sounds like it could be kind of selfish if
you're not careful.
David Lowry (04:08):
Or is it hedonism, like having any sensual pleasure
that you want and beingabsolutely unrepentant about
doing things for yourself at theexpense of other people?
But he's not really talkingabout that.
He's not saying that you shouldavoid all pain.
But he might point out thatsometimes we might have a little
bit of pain because we believeit's going to do good for us
(04:30):
later down the road.
So, maybe an athlete will dothose hard workouts, so that
when they compete, they have achance at winning something big,
like the Super Bowl.
Don Drew (04:40):
For years now, we've had a lot of difficulty, I
think, both culturally andpsychologically defining exactly
what it is that constituteshappiness in a person's life.
Sometimes what we expecthappiness to be is culturally
bound.
For instance, here in the UnitedStates, high levels of
materialism and consumerismdrive our culture in many ways.
(05:02):
So, the idea of gettinghappiness from having and
acquiring things is prettydominant.
David Lowry (05:08):
Let me ask you a question, Don.
If you're a poor person, butyou're In a state of happiness
and flourishing, how is thatdifferent from a wealthy person
who's experiencing the samething, feeling like I'm happy
and I'm flourishing?
Is the richer person happier?
And is there a degree where thatperson has more than the other
(05:28):
person as far as the emotion andfeeling of well being is
concerned?
And the answer is not really.
When you are in that state whereyou're happy, it doesn't matter
whether you're rich or poor,you're experiencing the same
emotion.
So when we get to that happyplace, it's the same for all of
us.
Don Drew (05:46):
It's really something that's internal.
I think one of the traps we fallinto is we think that if the
conditions, or the money, or theother person, the way they're
acting, or name any number ofdifferent conditions, if that's
right, or when that's right,then I'll be happy.
And we find that never happened.
So we've got to start inwardly.
(06:07):
And I think that's a big part ofwhat Aristotle was trying to
tell us.
David Lowry (06:10):
Happiness is a thing that comes within.
And sometimes when we get allthose things that we want we
discover, but I'm still nothappy.
I'm still not flourishing.
We want more and more and more.
And we think maybe I just needto try something else.
We get into this spinning cycleof trying to chase after things
and it's not doing what we needto do.
(06:32):
But hold on just a secondbecause not only did Aristotle
say happiness was the deal, he'sgoing to tell you how to get
there.
And that's the fun thing to talkabout today.
Don Drew (06:41):
Yeah.
One of the things I think hesaid was that human conduct is
goal directed.
What did he mean by that?
What constitutes being goaldirected happiness?
David Lowry (06:50):
Even when we're not thinking about it, most of us
instinctively want to do thingsthat bring us pleasure and
instinctively don't cause pain.
In other words, most everybody Iknow wants to have a happy life
and not a painful life.
Don Drew (07:05):
As I think about that, I'm thinking about how a person
might do dysfunctional things insome effort to meet some need
they have.
And I think this is almost adefinition of some kind of a
psychological difficulty orproblem a person is having.
Quite often we do what works forus, right?
And it may be misdirected.
It may not be leading us towardhappiness, but it's helping us
(07:27):
somehow get other things wewant.
And we get our own internalwires crossed.
These goals that you're talkingabout from philosophy, are
directed quite intentionallytowards things that are good and
helpful to the individual.
David Lowry (07:42):
Yes, he'll call them ends and means.
Some people will say, I wantmoney.
But it's not the money theywant, but what the money can do
for them.
Money is an end to some otherthing they believe will make
them happy.
Maybe it's owning a piece ofland or having a nice home.
We have to begin thinking isthat really the thing I want, or
(08:03):
is there something I want, andmaybe there's a way of getting
that that doesn't require theother thing.
It sort of reminds me of thisstory about a fisherman who's
got a boat.
You heard that story?
Don Drew (08:15):
Yes, and he goes out and he fishes every day and he
catches the fish and he bringsthem back and he grills them on
the beach.
And one day a wealthy man comesby, tries the fish and says,
man, this is the best fish I'veever had.
You know what?
I can help you get another boator two and you can put a fleet
of boats out there, catch two,three times the fish you're
catching right now.
You'll make more money.
(08:36):
Then you can buy even more boatsand hire more people.
You'll have wealth, can buildyour house on the beach, and
have this wonderful life and soforth.
And then when you get to be oldenough, like me, you can retire
and just sit around and relaxand fish.
And the fisherman looks at himand says, I think I'll just stay
where I'm at.
(08:57):
He's already got it.
David Lowry (08:58):
I've already got this.
I go home when I want to, I fishwhen I want to, I eat fish when
I want to.
Sometimes we don't have to havemoney to do the thing we really
want.
I've met people in the mountainswhere I like to go and maybe
they don't have the biggestplace, but they're living in the
mountains, the ones that theylove.
And they say, I wouldn't tradeit for anything.
Some of our goals to gethappiness are more noble and
(09:22):
valuable than others, but all ofthem can move us towards this
flourishing that we want.
The journey is part of it,right?
So the ends and means thatAristotle talks about, isn't
when I get all of this, then Iwill have happiness.
You're getting happiness allalong the way if you'll pay
attention to the journey.
Sometimes it's the acquiring ofthings along the way.
(09:44):
It's the learning of a newskill, the reading of a new book
that opens your mind andsuddenly, you're ready for the
next big thought.
Don Drew (09:52):
One of the challenges that comes from this ends-means
discussion is that a lot offolks have excused awful means
in order to achieve what theyperceive to be a good end.
Aristotle has a counter forthat.
He gives us some generalcharacteristics of happiness and
the kinds of things we should bedoing in order to be on the
right path towards happiness andflourishing.
David Lowry (10:14):
He says that we shouldn't want it just because
we want stuff.
If that's the end of it, it'llprobably be fairly disappointing
when the stuff breaks or wedon't have it anymore.
But happiness is something youhave forever.
Don, I know your kids and mykids are all raised.
But the moments we had all thatfun together, you never lose
(10:34):
that, right?
I don't know where all theclothes went, where the bicycles
went that I bought for them.
I don't know where thattrampoline is that I had for
them at one time, but I do knowwhere the happiness is.
It's in our hearts and in ourrelationship with each other.
You never forget that.
Don Drew (10:48):
I had lunch with my son.
He's 38 years old, had lunchwith him earlier today.
And we actually talked aboutsome favorite things from his
childhood and so forth.
Not once did he mentionedsomething that he got.
David Lowry (11:00):
You can plan for your happiness.
Aristotle says, you're going tohave to use your brain.
It's a rational exercise.
He says, one of the greatestthings that you have is your
ability to reason.
And reasoning is what will leadyou to happiness.
In other words, there areseveral things that we do to
plan for happiness.
Don Drew (11:17):
Happiness results from a rational life focused on the
pursuit of excellence.
David Lowry (11:22):
Aristotle calls it Arete.
A R E T E.
He says that's excellence.
Excellence at what you do.
So if you're a guitar player,you play with excellence.
If you're a teacher, you do thejob with great flourish, right?
Don Drew (11:36):
You're reminding me right now of, what was it?
Bill and Ted's excellentadventure.
I think I came out in the 1990s,and they were always saying be
excellent, right?
David Lowry (11:44):
Be excellent.
Don and I just pointed out thatsome of our happy moments come
from the memories we have of ourchildren and the fun times we
had together.
In a sense, that's prosperity.
If you think about it.
There are things that make youprosperous because of their
beauty and the wonderfulmemories you have.
(12:04):
And then there's some thingsthat make you prosperous because
they create a situation whereyou control your environment and
give yourself the time to dowhat you need to do or enjoy
life for comfort and security.
Let's talk about externalprosperity.
Don Drew (12:20):
So, what prosperity is for me?
Let me just start here and saythat, the older I get, the
things that mean the most to meare maintaining relationships
with my friends and my family.
That is something that feelsgood both from a mental and
physical security standpoint.
It makes me happy.
It brings me a great deal ofjoy.
(12:42):
I've been very blessed in termsof money and I don't know if I
have much status or power, butthose kinds of things have
worked well for me.
But that won't necessarily bethe case in all of our
listeners.
David Lowry (12:53):
You do need circumstantial security, we call
it.
It is good to have some money.
Now, how much money do you need?
Well, enough to live ascomfortably as you can to pay
the bills so that you don'tworry about whether or not
something's going to be takenfrom you.
You need a roof over your head.
And it's nice if you havesomething to carry you from
(13:15):
place to place, a nice car anddecent clothes to wear and
things like that.
My wife and I once had a fairlybig home and we downsized
because frankly, we wanted ahome that was small enough for
the two of us to manage withoutfeeling like we were just
working the home all of thetime.
Just a nice, comfortable placeto live, right?
(13:36):
it varies from person to person.
Don Drew (13:38):
Yeah, I get that.
Well, what about internal goods?
David Lowry (13:41):
I loved what you said earlier about family and
friends, and we all need peaceof mind.
If I were to give advice that Ididn't get when I was younger, I
would say don't do things that'sgoing to rob you of your peace
of mind.
There could be a temptation comeyour way, and you ought to say,
can I really live with doingthis thing?
(14:04):
Is this going to haunt or rob meof my peace of mind?
Don't sacrifice integrity, ruinyour relationships, burn your
friendships.
Think of things that bringhappiness and peace of mind and
make sure you're doing those.
Don Drew (14:18):
David, a few minutes ago, you mentioned the Greek
word, Arete, the word that'sused for excellence by
Aristotle.
There's two different types.
The first type is what's calledintellectual excellence, and
it's going to focus on twoprimary qualities.
Number one, the rationality, thequality of your rationality, the
quality of your thinking.
And the other part of that oneis non rational excellence, such
(14:40):
as paying attention to bodilyhealth, physical conditioning,
and so on.
What's the second one?
David Lowry (14:46):
The second one is moral excellence.
That's where you act inaccordance with your reasons.
What are your primary values?
So, let's say that your primaryvalues are respect.
If respect is important to youand that you show respect to
others, make sure you are doingmoral things that show respect
(15:06):
to others and include it in yourdaily things.
Don, it could be something assimple as walking down the
street and you see a person somepeople wouldn't speak to because
maybe they're asking for money,but instead you greet them and
say good morning and treat themjust like any other person
because respect is important toyou.
(15:27):
It's one of your values.
It's one of your virtues, youmight say.
And it's your moral excellence.
My family believes it'simportant to help people have
food to eat.
So, Don and I, several yearsago, built a blessing box, which
we installed near a church, toshare with people who have food
insecurities.
When we go to the store and buygroceries, we also spend a
(15:49):
little extra money to buy thingsto put into that box.
What we are doing is followingup the moral reasoning and
excellence that says it'simportant to help those who are
in need, especially those whoare hungry.
Don Drew (16:02):
And one of the biggest challenges I believe that comes
from this discussion of moralityhas to do with our definition of
whether something that we callmoral has good or negative
outcomes.
And we beat each other upsometimes over this.
Okay.
So on the one hand, I might sayyeah, David, we've got a
blessing box, we are concernedabout people in the local
(16:23):
community don't have enoughfood, so we're doing what we can
to help with that.
Others might look at that andsay, Well, you mean to do well,
but you're not feedingeverybody.
First person there getseverything that's in the box,
which happens from time to time,right?
So there's an unfairness, if youwill, in all of that.
How does Aristotle play intothis with his rationale?
David Lowry (16:45):
I don't have Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics
beside me here, but I believeAristotle would basically say
that while we can't solve allthe world's problems, what we
can do is live in our moralreasoning.
It is true I can't feed thewhole world with that little
blessing box, I'm still tryingto live out my values.
Don Drew (17:04):
So, what we're arriving at is they need to be
true to your own rational, moralthinking, which is how we also
develop what Aristotle wouldtalk about as virtues, which is
really important.
How then are excellent virtuesrequired?
How do we get these virtues?
In early life, if we'refortunate, we have a lot of
great moral training from ourfamily or whoever's raising us
(17:27):
and so on.
But it also takes practice,practicing right thinking,
practicing moral action and soon.
David Lowry (17:34):
You're absolutely right.
It's practice.
He calls it practice.
You actually practice yourmorals.
If you say you are a person whobelieves in respect, then you've
got to incorporate that in yourbehavior as often as you can.
People ought to say, when Ithink of so and so, I think of a
respectful human being.
They are always showing respectto people.
(17:55):
They should give you instanceafter instance of it because
you're demonstrating thatvirtue, if you will when people
are around you.
Aristotle has what he calls agolden mean.
You've heard about the walkingthe center path, if you will.
Let's say that, you want to berespectful to people?
On one side of the road isdisrespect.
You don't care about anybody'srespect.
(18:16):
And then on the other side of ityou're being obsequious, a
doormat.
Yeah.
You're just being a doormat oryou're praising everybody for
stupid stuff and it's insincere.
Mm-hmm So we have to fine tuneeach virtue so we're not
overdoing or underdoing it, butit makes sense the way that
we're doing it.
Don Drew (18:36):
Yeah.
So, according to Aristotle, themean, which means the middle or
the average, okay, with thecenter path, if you will, let's
just take a look at a couple ofthese examples.
For instance, we pretty muchuniversally see bravery as a
virtue, right?
And it's what we would expectfrom somebody.
If they're deficient in theirbravery, they act cowardly.
(18:59):
We consider that a vice, right?
That's a problem.
That's one direction.
And then if we go the other way,if somebody is so brave that
they act rashly, which meanswithout rationality, in other
words, just being brave withoutthinking about it, okay, it's no
longer bravery, it's rashness,it can be very dangerous, right?
David Lowry (19:18):
Being truthful is another one.
We all want to be honest in whatwe say.
We want to say things that aretrue and not false.
But some people are very selfdeprecating about the truth.
Oh, no, I couldn't do that.
I'm really not good.
When really they're very good atsomething.
So there's an intellectualhonesty that we own up to.
Yeah, I can do certain thingsreally well.
(19:39):
On the other hand, we could beboastful and overdo it.
So, going one way or the othercan make it a vice in
Aristotle's world and ours aswell.
Don Drew (19:49):
Yeah, that's really great, David.
Let's talk about Aristotle'scardinal moral virtues.
David Lowry (19:55):
When you think about a flourishing life, to tie
a neat bow on everything.
Aristotle is basically saying,if you want to be happy, you got
to use your reason, think aboutthe things you're excellent at,
and you got to do them.
Use that to help you acquiremoney and prosperity you need,
maybe the social standing youneed./ Develop your friends.
(20:17):
And then he says, you need tolive your values.
And he's going to suggest fourof them.
The four that he lists aretemperance, which is restraint
and self control.
Prudence, which we wouldtranslate as wisdom being wise.
Justice, which is being fair topeople.
And fortitude, which is courage,endurance, and grit and that
(20:41):
sort of thing.
Don Drew (20:42):
So he identified these four as being the virtues that
are important for everyone tohave.
We can have others in abundanceand so on, and we're all
different but these four weshould seek individually as good
citizens of society.
David Lowry (20:56):
I'm on team Aristotle on this one, because I
want to be around people who arejust and fair.
I want to be around people whohave self control.
I want to be around wise people.
And of course, I like to bearound people that when times
are tough, they know how to meetit, wisely.
And I think that is a greatthing for living a peaceful life
as well.
Don Drew (21:16):
I just want to send a thank you out to Aristotle,
wherever you are.
Thanks for all that you gave us.
We really appreciate it.
And thanks to our listeners forbeing with us this week on
Peaceful Life Radio.
We hope you have a great weekand we'll see you next week.
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