Redefining Relationships with Alcohol w Ruari Fairbairns #561

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Ruari and Lachlan discuss the impact of alcohol and the importance of changing one's relationship with it. They highlight the growing message about alcohol's negative effects and the need for a shift in the conversation.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Rari.
Welcome back, mate.
Episode two Second time around.
It's so good to have you backon the show.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Thank you for having me on once again.
I hope that we find some newmaterial.
I don't want to soundrepetitive.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
No, I think it's an important message, but I have
listened to our podcast.
I've also listened to a coupleof other ones that you've been
on just trying to look for newthings that are happening.
A lot's happened since we'vespoken in 2021.
It's crazy to also listened toa couple of other ones that
you've been on just trying tolook for new things that are
happening and a lot's happenedsince we've spoken in 2021.
It's crazy to think that feelslike yesterday, because I
continue to share this episodewith a lot of mates in my life.
It's whenever people have aproblem with alcohol or it's

(00:38):
always the work meetings faultthat why they got drunk.
I'm like, so sick of hearingthose excuses.
Listen to this episode and it'sjust fired me up to get you
back on the show.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Amazing Good.
Thank you for having me back on, and you know it's been amazing
to get some of this exposureand just how fast this message
is growing and there is now avery long list.
I mean my part, my, my halftimeof my role now is podcast
guesting and and interviews andjournalist interviews and things

(01:09):
like that.
It's it's uh really going someuh, some, some speed, which is
super exciting, just to put thatinto perspective.
So where this really came fromwas, uh, the hooberman lab did a
podcast on um, um, it's calledum, the truth about alcohol, and
it's now the most watched andmost shared and that's the

(01:31):
number one podcast in the world,right?
So this is the.
This is the top episode of thetop podcast in the world Um, and
I think that was a huge shockto um Andrew Huberman.
Um, by the way, if you don'tknow that podcast, it's
Professor Andrew Huberman is theprofessor of gosh.
He says so many words when hedescribes it, but it's
neuroscience and ophthalmologyand popphylology at Stanford

(01:56):
University.
I can't do all those things,but he debunks neuroscience and
science and it's an amazing, anamazing podcast, so rich roll I
then had been reaching out tofor a while, which is a pretty
big podcast.
I think it's 13th largest in theworld on spotify uh, 400
million downloads.
And um, I was like you know the?

(02:16):
The message we're putting outto the world is all wrong.
I can tell you why.
We can reach a much wideraudience if we change the
conversation.
And when I got and sat down withRidge he said did you know that
the who Women Lab is now themost watched and everything else
?
And this is why we've broughtyou on at the peak time of year
for our podcast?
So they put me on week two,which is when they're every

(02:38):
single year their listens aretheir absolute peak.
So they wanted to put me in thefront seat Just to let you know
that that podcast has beenshared nearly 200,000 times just
on one single platform.
It's hitting over 8 millionviews now and it's more watched
than any of his other celebrityguests in the last two years

(02:59):
Schwarzenegger, stephen Bartlett, all of those things.
So it's gone properly viral.
And what does that mean?
What is that saying?
Finally, after nine years I'vebeen podcasting for nine years
after nine years of did you namethe world with this message?
It's now starting to listen.
People are rethinking theirrelationship with alcohol.

(03:21):
This conversation of hey, Ithink alcohol is holding you
back.
Is there a part of you thatthinks that alcohol is holding
you back?
Because that's the truth and,finally, that message is
resonating with people.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Such a powerful episode and, as I said, I've
been sharing it with a lot ofthe episode that we've done and
a lot of your resources, withpeople, a lot of people, when
they think about alcohol, it'slike all or nothing, so their
instant thought is I need to cutit out or I can just carry on
with my life, and that's notessentially the big issue.
Right, like the big issue ismore so changing our

(03:57):
relationship with it,understanding how we can
moderate our alcohol use andfind moments to do that.
And I know for you for a bit ofthe backstory, for those who
haven't listened to the previousepisodes you got to a point in
your career where work meetingsand the binge drinking stuff was
ruining your marriage andalmost ruined your life
completely.
A lot of men are in thatposition.

(04:18):
Marriages are on the brink ofdivorce, but they lean into
alcohol.
They lean into it as a copingmechanism.
Why do you feel you weredifferent and you decided to
change your relationship withalcohol?

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Thank you.
I want to just poke at what youjust said there a smidge.
It's all very well sitting heretoday saying, oh, I nearly lost
my marriage and I nearly hadthese issues happen to me, but
that wasn't the truth in themoment.
Okay, I just had a verytumultuous marriage and I'm sure

(04:52):
many of us have those.
When we started dating, myparents and friends around us
gave oh my good Lord, we giveyou guys days max, right,
because it was such a tumultuous, you know, marriage.
It was such a tumultuousrelationship.
Jane had very severe childhoodtrauma, very, very different,
difficult childhood, and so thiswhole brewery has problems with

(05:15):
his relationship was not new toanyone, right?
And my wife was like theproblem is your drinking.
And I was like, well, this isreally simple, it's part of my
job.
Do you want the Jimmy Cheoo'sor?
You know that was basically myattitude, right?
Do you want the nice house?
Do you want the car?
Do you want the sinks?
Because this is part of the joband in my world that was just

(05:38):
normal.
It was perfectly normal.
Perfectly normal that wiveswould be very unhappy with their
men.
Perfectly normal that theirwives would give the men lots of
grief when you go home.
Perfectly normal that therewould be fights about you coming
home at one o'clock in themorning.
Perfectly normal that you mightfall asleep in the disabled
toilet which I did multipletimes instead of coming home,

(05:58):
just because there's only anhour and a half left before I
have to get back on the desk,right In fact, when I got
married, the guys said good man,get the first one in early.
So what we're talking about ishow do you identify back in that
moment that you're nearly atrock bottom?
Because rock bottom is onlydiscovered when you actually

(06:20):
achieve that thing, and intraditional AA this is part of
the process.
They say go away until you'vefinally had enough.
They'll say that on phone callsas a part of AA, when you've
literally excuse my languagefucked your life up enough that
you're willing to submityourself to God, admit you're
powerless, and then keepreturning to a place every

(06:40):
single week for the rest of yourlife, which is the way that
system operates.
Face every single week for therest of your life, which is the
way that system operates.
So in that moment, if I don'thave a wife who's saying that's
it, I'm out the door.
Now my wife might say that tome quite often.
And one day there was a textmessage which was like fuck you,
I'll be in Sweden with ourdaughter.
And I thought to my mind great,that means I can go and get pie

(07:04):
faced for a week.
And I did got pie faced, hungout with my pals.
Some of my friends were likeyou should really go and get her
, go on.
So you know, after a week ofhaving lots of fun, I went over
and made amends and apologizedand all of those things and got
her back.
Did you know this very, verytumultuous relationship?
That's what it was.

(07:24):
So I think in did you know theconversation and the reason why
I bring this up?
Not defending it, but justpainting it clearly?
Because when we talk abouthere's a guy who fucked his life
up and then he stopped drinking, 99% of people who drink switch
off.
That's not me, I haven't fuckedmy life up yet, I'm fine, I'll

(07:46):
carry on Right and.
And so they're sleepwalkingtill that moment happens.
How many of us actually haveissues in our relationship
predominantly caused by alcohol?
How many of us have our worstarguments with our partners
after drinking?
How many of us recognized thatactually, alcohol is making us
feel a little bit more anxious,a little bit more depressed and

(08:08):
not quite as productive as weare at work, and that's causing
financial woes and thereforecreating more arguments in our
relationship?
How many of us are quietlywaiting until the doctor says if
you have another drink, says,if you have another drink,

(08:28):
you're dead, right Now, why waitfor that?
Right, let's not wait for it.
So, in this whole area ofprevention where we actually
want to say, well, hang on aminute, I do realize that this
thing is causing me a bit moretrouble than I realized.
I'd like to reduce it.
We have to get clear on ourpsychological pain.
We have to get clear on thetruth.
We have to actually go hang ona minute.
This is causing issues in myrelationship, hang on.
This is, you know, causing meto be less productive and blah,

(08:50):
blah, blah.
I'm going to give a shot atchanging my relationship with it
and if things start to improve,hey presto, I found one of the
issues.
Right, I found one of theissues, and I think that's
what's really, really importantin the communication.
Now, if you want to reachLachlan, for you right, you're
on a wonderful journey ofchanging your relationship with

(09:12):
alcohol.
If you want your journey toinspire the most amount of
people, don't talk about rockbottom.
Did you not talk about likeeverything blew up and then you
were forced to change?
Just talk about it in a waythat reaches the vast majority
of the audience.
You know what?
I was feeling a bit anxious andI felt like I just wasn't being

(09:32):
the best version of myself.
I knew I had more to give.
I knew I wanted to achieve morein my life and I knew that if
anything was holding me back, itwas alcohol and it was
definitely worth testing.
So that's why I'm changing myrelationship with it.
And now you're talking toeveryone who drinks.
Nobody can go away in thecorner and go oh, that's not me.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Makes sense.
Did you know?
You were literally speaking tome just then?
For those who don't, I haven't.
I guess I'm not publiclytalking about not drinking for
the year.
It's just a personal goal thatI've set for myself, and I don't
have a bad relationship withalcohol, I rarely drink anyway.
But there's always been thisthought in the back of my mind

(10:15):
what am I capable of if I justcompletely cut it out for 12
months and allow myself to getup early on Sunday and not have
those hangovers, even thoughthere might be four hangovers a
year?
But even my wife's already saidsaid you're not as moody like
if I'll have a whiskey.
You know, we're in tennessee now, so we're in urban country I
will say, before we started thepodcast and you were having some
technical issues, I wasdetecting some moodiness in
there I did have to swing back ashot of whiskey to get through

(10:42):
it, yeah, yeah, but it's such akey point and I'm glad you
brought that up because I didwant to talk about that A lot of
the data that you guys havecollected and even I know for
you you got a text messagebefore, even though it's not
alcohol-related but it's becauseyou're getting crook but it's

(11:02):
cool that you've made the effort.
But there's all these datapoints and I use a Whoop, you're
using an Aura and you guys alsotrack with what was the other
device that you said Aura andyeah, so there's ways that you
can track that.
But some of the data thatyou've got is like 79% better
sleep, 92% feel better, 71% moreproductive, 81% feel less

(11:23):
anxious and and 53 lose weight.
Like when I was reading that,like if I'll have to say even
just one of those would be goodfor most people.
I know that when I'm lessanxious, I absolutely crush it
at work.
I'm a much better husband, I'ma much better bloke.
Like if I'll have, when I sleep, better same thing, my
performance for work and andtraining, and all of that goes

(11:43):
up and it's why am I notsleeping well or why am I such a
prick?
to my wife and ourrelationship's falling apart.
I know alcohol is a reason forthat, and I personally.
One of the reasons why I dotend to have a drink if I go to
a social function is because ofsocial anxiety.
I just feel uncomfortable.
But to the point that youmentioned before, it's like why

(12:10):
am I feeling uncomfortable here?
What can I do to becomecomfortable in social situations
rather than just always needingthe bottle?
I could all have it so well.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
we covered a lot of ground there and I think that
the way to communicate to peoplebecause if you look at our
relationship with alcohol, weare totally brainwashed and
indoctrinated by society, byhuge amounts of marketing every
year that all this socialconditioning over decades has

(12:36):
built up these neural pathways.
Since we were in nappies wehave been watching right some of
us were drinking then.
If you're especially West CoastScotland, I think you need to
use it to rub it into your teeth.
But you know we've beenwatching people celebrate,
commiserate, congratulate withalcohol and you know the brain
puts on, it puts on constantlythese things that we repeatedly

(13:00):
do and see.
So it's building those neuralpathways around this stuff.
So all of these creations areindoctrinated in our head, and
so what that means is that weare abjectly refusing to believe
that the thing that we thinkthat is the source of fun,
happiness, love, good times,success, which we have spent

(13:23):
decades building up, the beliefthat it is right.
You can go into your teens andand then, when you first start
having a drink, it's aboutinclusion.
If I want to be included, Ineed to, I need to have a drink
and I need to drink well, andthen you get into later, into
teens and 20s, and it's aboutgetting laid right and then
about finding a partner.
And then, you know, connectingwith that partner happens when
you're partying and having fun,and then it becomes about having

(13:46):
fun.
And then it becomes abouthaving fun and then it becomes
about having success.
Right, you're like, oh wow, ifI take people out for dinner and
if I do these things and Idrink, well, and I'm a hard
drinker, if you entered intosport, right, it's about
decompression and bonding andbuilding.
So again, all of thisindoctrination happens over time
.
So what happens is this quietquestioning comes in.
You know, hey, you know, Ithink alcohol is causing you

(14:08):
more trouble than you realizedand you immediately hush it.
No, no, no, don't be silly,don't be silly.
Shh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Don't say that.
Imagine, like you've got thistrusted friend who is a loyal,
trusted friend, your best pal.
All the fun, all the happinessgoes on with his best pal,
everywhere you go, it's just funand happiness.
And then somebody says to youyou know he's cheating on you.

(14:31):
He's, you know, messing aroundbehind your back.
You're no, no, no, he would notdo that.
I don't believe that, and thatis where most people are with
our relationship with alcohol.
In the beginning we're inabsolute denial that this thing
is causing us.
Probably this trust have builtup over time and as we start to
question that more and the morepodcasts put out, the more

(14:51):
things we listen to, the morescience that's going out there,
the more that questioning builds.
You're like hang on, I'mbuilding up a bit of a campaign
about my best friend here.
I'm not sure you're too goodfor me anymore, um, and I think
that's that's time when you youget into a moment where you say
do you know what?
I think maybe we should have abreak for a little bit.
Let's just part ways, just fora little bit, and I want to see

(15:13):
if life gets better.
Suddenly you find that all ofyour life improves.
Your wife stops hating you andyou realize that this best
friend has been whispering inyour wife's ear about what a
cunt you are.
And now suddenly she's like oh,none of that was true, right,
and so he's been running aroundbehind your back doing all these
sabotage-y things and you'relike you bastard, I can't

(15:35):
believe you were doing that.
I actually wrote a letter,which again went off like
wildfire.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
Is this the Branson one?

Speaker 2 (15:42):
When you're a kid, dear Alcohol Letter, which is a
letter about hey, you know, youhave been my best friend, you
got me laid, you got me fired.
You, you helped me find my, mypartner.
We've had so many times therewas one comment Um you, you had

(16:03):
me in a little town, calledsomething or other, when I
should have been at the altar.
You know all of those kinds ofstories.
But now I've realized the truth.
I've realized the truth of theimpact, what you have, and it's
time for us to part ways for abit.
Sorry, I went kind of divulgedon that, but you were
specifically asking about thelevel of data and I think that
data is a very compelling toolfor behavior change and just

(16:28):
like a book, right, a book canbe a very compelling tool for
behavior change.
And I think maybe in our lives,if you read voraciously, you
will take a small segment ofeach book and implement it.
Maybe 1%, maybe 5% If it's areally, really, really good book
, 10% at best, right, I don'tknow how many thousands of books

(16:51):
you've read Lachlan, I haveliterally tons.
I mean, I read voraciously.
Right, if I implemented 100% ofthose books, I'd be a
billionaire many times over.
I'd have six-pack abs.
I mean just everything.
I'd probably be already callingout to the doctor.
You'd have it all.
You'd be an abdonus.
So information is just onething and same as data.

(17:11):
Data is just one thing.
I think it's a very compellingtool.
You're using Whoop.
You're seeing your sleep.
What you brought intoconversation there is where we
are taking data to a much, much,much higher level.
So in our complete controlprogram we use the aura ring.
We also use the first beat.
They're used for two differentthings, but I brought it up this

(17:32):
morning because one of ourdoctors who works with our
health team and monitor ourparticipants 24-7, and
predominantly we use it foraccountability.
We're also there to monitortheir health and make sure they
stay up, but to understandthings like sleep deprivation is
a significant driver forcompulsive behavior.
I'm sure we'll come on to thatlater, but this is the message

(17:53):
from my doctor today because I'malso being monitored.
Hi Ruri, how are you doingtoday?
I wanted to reach out as Inoticed Elevated temperature
deviation, possibly fever.
Slightly increased restingheart rate 64 BPM.

(18:14):
Baseline 68.
Declined HRV equals 26 MS.
Baseline 35 MS.
Declining trend for two daysLow deep sleep 7.95% Interrupted
sleep, repeated waking up inthe middle of sleep Just sounds
like an entrepreneur's journey,doesn't it?
No, I'm kidding.
I suspect early signs ofinfection Can't say specific
causes.
Based on the data I have,though, is everything all right,
any symptoms?
Just last night I said to mywife I don't feel great, and

(18:35):
last week my daughter had achest infection, so obviously I
have now picked that up.
I love how it goes sequentiallythrough the house, but what is
compelling about that, right?
So our team have earlyidentified a stroke and called
an ambulance in advance of thatstroke happening.
We have detected early onsetCOVID, early onset of flu-like

(18:57):
symptoms.
Just warned people about theirhealth deviation, because we're
monitoring these metrics everyday.
Again, that's the health sideof things which we help people
stay accountable.
Again, that's the health sideof thing which we help people
stay accountable to.
But on the flip side of that,the accountability side, that's
what we all need.
We all need our ass kickedevery day.
Imagine somebody's watching you24-7.
If you don't exercise for twodays, we are phoning you to kick

(19:21):
your ass.
If you don't meditate for twodays, you're going to get a
phone call from myaccountability team.
Right?

Speaker 1 (19:26):
We are ruthless in helping create these habits, so
that's kind of taking data, butto a whole nother level, I think
it's so important because Iknow I was reading an article
the other day and they say theWHOOP data may be 75% accurate
or something.
But it's about what it thengets you to start thinking about
what has put me in thisposition.

(19:46):
It could be illness, as you'vesaid, but for a lot of our
members they're high-performingmen.
They do probably what you did anumber of years ago, even the
entrepreneur's journey where weburn the candle at both ends.
So it's then looking at whatare my restorative protocols,
how can I get my heart ratevariability back up or even
breathing right?
People are ventilating, justwalking around because our

(20:09):
breathing is so bad.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
And alcohol.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
whenever I drink alcohol, like you, see this huge
spike on the whoop where itgoes from like 39 beats while
I'm sleeping to about 55.
That's not good for me, solet's moderate that.
One thing we haven't I guess Iwould love to dive into in a bit
more is before you dive intothat.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Just before you dive into that, what you said exactly
there is.
So I read some research um thatwas showing the hhc, which is a
um.
I could all have syntheticversion of thc, um and uh, hhc.
Thc obviously is a compound,part of cannabis or a part of
cannabinoid and so and HHC hasbeen helpful with sleep

(20:53):
deprivation.
So I thought, okay, well, thisis interesting.
I love testing out all of thisstuff and everything else.
So I took for those who are onYouTube, you'll be able to see
this so I tried it a couple ofnights and I slept amazing and I
thought, wow, I've had a wholeway through sleep.
I didn't get up to wee Ifyou're over 40, you'll know what
that's like now and I thoughtthis is true, I've had really

(21:17):
good sleep.
Then I put on the Firsty Beatdevice and it's the world's most
accurate heart rate variabilitymonitor.
You actually wear a couple ofelectrodes.
Again, it's not really thedevice that you do on your own.
You do it with a practitionerand that's why we have a team of
people.
We send it out to people.
We're helping people understandthe data Because, again, just
seeing a chart doesn't reallymake any difference.

(21:39):
You're not going to create anychange, but somebody really
helping you see the minutiae ofthe data is what will help make
compelling change.
So red is sympathetic nervoussystem.
See that where it says vape,there I had vape almost
instantly.
Look at that massive spike ofsight and flight.
Now on top of that, look at thewhole evening.

(22:00):
Not a single minute of recovery.
No, green, I mean.
Okay, there's a couple of tinylittle lines of green, so I do
not enter recovery during sleepat all.
What does what is hey, reallyslow down?
What does that mean?
This is your central nervoussystem and it is a core part of
our compulsion, our desire tonumb out.
It is the main part of source.

(22:22):
There's lots of things thathappen with our central nervous
system.
We have parasympathetic and wehave sympathetic nervous system.
Our parasympathetic is think ofit like parachuting down.
We're going into recovery, ourorgans are regenerating, our
brain is regenerating.
We're going intoneuroplasticity.
Neuroplasticity is the brain'sability to learn and develop and

(22:49):
we need it at night.
That's when most of ourrecovery happens.
And in fact, now they believethat the vast majority of
neuroplasticity happens duringdeep sleep, which is why deep
sleep needs to be prioritized.
It doesn't matter whether youthink you got eight hours last
night, oh, I had a drink and Igot eight hours.
No, no, no, alcohol is horrificto sleep.
And again, showing this peoplein the data.
So what it really means is, andagain, what we teach people is
that it's?

(23:09):
not just important to haverecovery at night.
Recovery at night is critical.
Okay, if you don't get recoveryat night, you're heading for
serious mental illness and illhealth.
All sorts of things are goingto come out of this right.
Cancers, dementias, autoimmunediseases and disorders are the
result of sleep deprivation.
And we're just starting tounderstand the importance of

(23:31):
good sleep and really puttingthat as number one on our agenda
, protecting it with all of yourmight.
There was an interesting pieceof research that said that we
produce cancer-beating cellspredominantly at night, when we
sleep, and it's from that deepand that element of recovery.
And again, if you drink alcohol, you're putting yourself into
fight or flight with cortisol,not producing those cells.

(23:54):
So come back on track, rurik.
God bless me with the ADHD.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
No, it's very interesting.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
When it comes to the parasympathetic, this is calming
our nervous system down, andthe most important thing we are
teaching people is that we mustfind recovery during the day.
Okay, think of it like thisStress as an element of
compulsion is one of the coredrivers of compulsion.

(24:25):
Okay, if alcohol is asignificant factor on you, or
drinking, or, you know, vaping,or binge watching Netflix, or
work addiction, which I'm suremost entrepreneurs have hand up,
okay, yeah, exactly, so this isall about stress, yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
To describe how important stress is.
We had Dr Rajita Sinha, whodoesn't come on the podcast,
spent the last 35 years studyingaddiction at Yale University.
She's the head of addictionresearch at Yale University.
Two years ago she turned aroundto the board and she said I
want to change the name of thedepartment.
And they were like what, why?
She said I want to change itfrom Yale University Study for

(25:06):
Addiction to Yale UniversityStudy for Stress, because
addiction is just the outcome.
Okay.
Now if she has spent 150peer-reviewed studies, she's an
amazing person.
If she believes that it's allcentered in that stress thing,
then this wholeparasympathetic-sympath,
sympathetic this is absolutelykey.
It's a core part, and I want togive you an analogy for a

(25:28):
second, because this is reallyeasy to understand after me
using lots of words and lots ofcomplexity, which even I don't
understand half the time.
I'm kidding.
Think of it like you know thoselittle toy plastic cars that
have got a little plastic dynamoin them.
You push them along and they gofurther than you push.
Yeah, so that's your centralnervous system.

(25:48):
Now, if you are neurodivergent,so ADD, adhd, bipolar OCD, if
you're on the neurodivergentscale, you have an even more
geared dynamo.
Okay, so that means that themore you push it, the further it
goes has significantlydiminished your sleep and both.

(26:12):
Alcohol increasing cortisolproduction turns you into fight
or flight all night, and sleepdeprivation is very, very
detrimental to our centralnervous system.
So now your ability to dealwith stress is significantly
diminished in the day because ofthose two factors.
So you're already a wound upcar and then you start winding
up from the day drinking coffee.
Some foods you eat aresignificant, significantly
impactful in your centralnervous system, like junk food,

(26:34):
crap like that releasesinflammation.
Then you've got stress fromwork, stress, stress, stress.
There's no break.
Then you get to the end of theday and you put this little toy
car that you've been puttingdown, expecting it to relax and
for you to go to sleep, and itit goes, fuck you, and it shoots
off into the distance Exactly.
And that's your brain.
I can't switch off this brain.

(26:54):
It's just absolutely running at10 million miles an hour.
What's wrong with me?
I'm going to have a drinkbecause it's amazing.
And guess what?
Alcohol is amazing at switchingoff that brain.
So we think it is good at thattool, but actually it makes that
whole cycle beget itself Onceagain.
It creates that issue in themorning and therefore you need
it again, right?

(27:14):
Alcohol begets itself, yeah, soeffectively.
What we teach people is, whenit comes to stress, you can
actually handle a much higherlevel of stress than you realize
.
And, more importantly, here'san important point If you've
been regularly consuming alcoholnow for a few years, right
Decades, you've been increasingthe production of cortisol,

(27:36):
right, which means that you havebeen slowly reducing your
ability to deal with stress.
So it may feel like you're morestressed out now, right, but
actually you've reduced how muchstress you can deal with before
you go into overloaded centralnervous system.
And so, really, what we teachpeople is, when you're winding
up that car, when it gets to thetop, just pause, pause for a

(27:58):
minute.
Let the energy come out of thatlittle dynamo and then wind it
up again and then pause and thenwind it up again and in the
data this is you going fromfight or flight back to
parasympathetic, where you're inrecovery.
And doing that during the daymeans that when you get to the
end of the day, when you put thecar down, it rolls nice and

(28:19):
gently to a stop and you canfall asleep and then you don't
need an alcohol which blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
That whole system doesn't run.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah, it's a cycle, exactly.
I guess some outcomes of thatas well.
Yeah, coming into my head isyou're not gonna snap at your
children or your wife?
Yeah, maybe, instead of yeah,can that be?

Speaker 2 (28:39):
yeah, we're not miracle workers.
Still happens little shitsometimes, and so the kids?

Speaker 1 (28:47):
oh sorry, there's a good quote where it's like
there's a good quote where it'slike drink never made, and so
are the kids.
Oh sorry, there's a good quotewhere it's like there's a good
quote where it's like drinknever made man better, but it
made him think he was better.
And that's when I heard that Iwas like I definitely feel like
that.
Liquid courage is an importantpart you touched on.
We'll go back to like notcompletely removing alcohol from

(29:08):
our life shortly, but there wassomething that you touched on
with the core drivers.
You mentioned core drivers forcompulsion.
You gave us the example ofstress being one.
What are some other of the coredrivers there that people can
be aware of?

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Excuse me, that's my chest infection that my doctor
warned me of, that I was gettingthis morning.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
And.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
I'm glad you didn't cancel.
She's based in Ethiopia, whichis that.
How cool is that?
That is amazing.
So yeah um, core drivers.
Look, let's let's talk aboutthe principle.
Um, I never wanted to tellanyone ever that I was powerless
to anything, because that's nottrue and I would never admit
that that was true.
Um, I did go to a couple of AAmeetings.

(29:49):
I was recommended to by acounselor and they said just go
and see what it's like.
And I went in and thought thisis not, this is not me, it's
it's not where I am, this is,I'm not like that.
And then there was nothingreally else.
Just one second, I'm sorry.
Yeah, there was nothing elsereally out there that I felt I
resonated with.

(30:09):
And so in this whole journeylaunched One Year, no Beer
helped lots of people take abreak from alcohol saw the same
thing again and again Peoplecould do a break, they could do
six months, they could do a year, like I did, but then they
would go back within a few weeksor months to like problematic
drinking and I'm like, no, weneed to help people in a more

(30:29):
significant way.
And that's what kind of sent meon a journey over the last
eight years really, um, workingwith some of the top scientists
out in the world studying whatwas going on out there in terms
of compulsion, addiction, trauma, the latest research and habit
change and behavior change, um,and we know, we know what drives
compulsive behavior.
We We've known for decades.
Why aren't we helping peoplewith that?

(30:53):
I don't understand why we're notstarting there.
Why are we starting with?
You're powerless and you have adisease, or here's some
medication, there's something ofa broken system there, me
thinks.
And, by the way, remind me tocome back to talk about that, um
, because I will thank you.
So, um, yeah, let's start withthose, those things that we know

(31:20):
drive compulsion number one.
The source of most of ourdesire to numb out, to switch
off, is rooted in our pastexperiences, predominantly as a
child, and, I know, especiallytalking to men.
Half the room has now run awaygoing what the fuck.
I don't want to go back there.
I've spent my whole lifefucking ignoring that stuff,
packing it down.
I'm strong, I don't need to goback into all that stuff.

(31:41):
Well, I just want to explainhow important this is.
I actually think that we aregoing to have an entire
healthcare revolution over thenext decade and I would like to
be maybe.
This is.
I actually think that we aregoing to have an entire
healthcare revolution over thenext decade and I would like to
be maybe.
This is my ego speaking,probably, but I want to be one
of the pioneers really flyingthe fag.
There is that actually almostall of it is driven by this past

(32:03):
experience, trauma.
Okay, when we look at some ofthat stuff and some of the
research coming from Gabramateand the studies that are done
out there, things likeautoimmune diseases and
disorders a huge amount of themare actually a direct result of
unprocessed childhood trauma,these past emotions.
So let me just describe thisDuring zero to seven, our

(32:27):
prefrontal cortex has not yetswitched on and this is the area
just behind our forehead hereand the prefrontal cortex is
used for rational decisionmaking.
So when somebody shouts at youtoday, you go oh, that's
somebody who hasn't slept.
Well, if you meditate, if youdon't meditate, you probably
punch the lights out, but anyway, so, and that's your prefrontal

(32:50):
cortex rationalizing thatyou're safe, you're strong, that
person's not going to attackyou, this is all within reason,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Right, as a child, we don'thave any of that.
We don't understand.
You watch what happens to ababy when a mother goes out of
the room at a very early age.
That baby does not think thatmother's coming back, and that

(33:10):
is a hugely impactful moment.
Now you look at that and yousay, well, good God, I mean
literally.
Here's an example that somebodyelse was talking about recently.
The daughter is putting on atutu, comes new little pink tutu
, super excited, runs through todad who's busy, and goes dad,
look, look, look at my new tutu.

(33:31):
And dad goes oh, it looks good,but it looks a little bit small
for you.
You know, all of a sudden, thatchild has, you know, eating
disorders for the rest of theirlife, right?
And you're like okay, well,hang on a minute.
If that's the case, we've allgiven our kids childhood Yep,
hands up.
Childhood.
Giving them trauma Hands up,yep, I have, you have.

(33:53):
If you have kids, we all have,and that's because childhood is
traumatic Full stop.
Now I'm not belittling serioustrauma here, right, because lots
of people have very serioustrauma and very serious things
happen to them, but I want youto understand that we all have
these experiences in the pastthat created emotions that we
didn't know how to deal with inthe time and we chose to pack

(34:16):
those down and at the same time,we probably made some decisions
about ourself that form our ego.
I'm not good enough, I'm notworthy, I should never be on my
own, I can't trust men, I can'ttrust women, I can't trust
anyone, anyone, whatever thosethings are, and they stay with
us our whole lives until weactually decide to let go of
them.
Yeah, this is why we use thingstools by better van der kolk,

(34:39):
peter levine, which are theworld leaders today in
understanding trauma and helpingpeople shift past them which is
predominantly dealing with theemotion, not the conscious
conversation, which is oftenwhat happens when we go to
traditional talk therapy, butactually just trying to tackle
the emotion itself.
It's also some of the mostpromising work that's happening

(34:59):
with psychedelic therapy and whyI'm a huge advocate and will be
using psychedelic therapy onour programs when we can is that
I really believe we can have anentire health revolution by
helping people shift past someof the bullshit that we have in
our past.
Just two things to mention tothis.
If you look at that right,people come to say, well, I want

(35:21):
to change my relationship withalcohol, and I say, well, that's
great If we only achieve that.
We've only achieved 1% Becausethe truth is, when we start to
tackle some of this stuff, we'regoing to help you prevent ill
health.
We're going to help you preventpoor mental health down the
path.
We're going to help you preventthings like dementia,
Alzheimer's, cancers.
Can I say that you won't getthose things?
Of course I can.

(35:42):
There's so many other factorsthat are throwing into it.
But if we know we can dosomething, why don't we take
that action?
And this is my thing to people.
I actually got a message todayfrom somebody, a lady, on
LinkedIn, and she said Ilistened to your ritual podcast.
I never really thought I hadtrauma, but I reached out to a
practitioner of somaticexperience and I've discovered

(36:03):
there's some significant thingsand I honestly think this is
going to be life changing for meand I'm like yes, this is the
work we need to help people doyeah, you could, yeah, so I was
just going to say, just to that,I was very similar to you, like
I've always.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
I'm sorry, not to you , but to that trauma experience.
I thought I was all good, lifeis flying, but I ended up doing
like a hypnosis experience justbecause I was.
I wonder what I can gain fromit.
And when I went through thisfive-day experience there was so
much trauma.
I was like bawling andrecognizing stuff that I'd never
thought of, ever.
Yeah, explained Once I becameaware of it it explained so many

(36:42):
actions that I was making in mylife and I was like, oh, my
goodness, now I can fuckinglearn to accept that and
appreciate that experience butshift the perspective on it.
And that was maybe three, fouryears ago.
My life's completely changedfrom that and there's still
stuff I've got to work on.
But I've managed and men arereally good at it.

(37:02):
We just sort of push it down.
There's always going to besomething that we can work on.
I 1,000% agree with you withthe space of trauma and learning
to experience and understandour emotions.
It's going to be revolutionary,like even Joe Dispenza a lot of
his, his work is.
It's fascinating the studiesthat they've got coming out as

(37:23):
well.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, amazing work with Joe Dispenza, exactly, and
I think you know we go along thelines right Meditation, breath
work, hypnotherapy, somaticexperiencing these are all
linked together in a way of thebody and the connection between
the vagus nerve and utilizingthat and releasing from, you

(37:48):
know, besservat de Kult books.
The Body Keeps the Score.
All of those things are alignedon that same thing.
You need to give me thatperson's details because we use
hypnotherapy as a part of theprogram.
We're always looking for moreexperts to join our team and you
know we are recruiting some ofthe top coaches out there in the
world today to join thisprogram.

(38:09):
We have one of the lead coachesfrom Tony Robbins.
We have coaches who've trainedone-on-one with these
world-class experts Gabor Mate,peter Levine so we are gathering
an elite team to support people.
So if somebody's had a verysignificant impact on you in one
of these modalities that we use, definitely want to talk one of

(38:30):
these modalities that we use todefinitely want to talk yeah,
I'd note of that, good man.
So trauma being number one in asignificant part, and what we're
seeing is that actually thesetwo kind of lead on to each
other, because number two isstress and we kind of touched
base on that.
Be an idiot?
Yeah, that's not you, dog, dogmaking another guest appearance

(38:54):
as well don't have a dog in yourpodcast room is basically the
answer.
so, um, so the the, the traumaelement, right, this past is
probably not showing up asemotion.
We don't really walk aroundcrying some of us do.
At some points you can have arelease, you can get to really
the wit's end, you can feel likeyou're overwhelmed.

(39:16):
Depression comes in things likethat unable to cope.
Alcohol really creates more ofthat feeling of unable to cope
because it begets itself um,yeah and um and then.
But this, this, so this pastexperience doesn't really show
up as emotion.
It shows up as a very busybrain, um, it shows up as very
critical, very um, um,self-sabotaging brain, very loud

(39:42):
, self-critic, and so that'salso impactful on our central
nervous system.
So again, that's debilitatingour ability to deal with stress.
So when you come in with thatstuff, we have to do that work
first, and this is why this issomething really important to
work to remember.
No amount of conscious work, noamount of control,

(40:03):
self-discipline process, noamount of using tools, habit,
habit, surface stuff will everbeat a self-sabotaging
subconscious.
Yeah, and this is why we haveto start with the work back
there first.
Okay, so otherwise we're justputting plasters on top of
problems.
So the next thing we talk aboutis stress, and I've highlighted

(40:25):
how important it is tounderstand that, and we use
devices to help peopleunderstand their stress.
In fact, you can see from themany, many Trustpilot reviews
and many, many feedback frompeople, they talk about being
able to handle a much higherlevel of stress.
And I say to people all thetime, like what impact would it
have on your business, on yourcareer, if you were able to

(40:46):
handle a much higher level ofstress calmly?
Right, that would be a gamechanger.
Right, that would just be sohuge.
And so that's what happens whenyou start building in stress
resilience tools and you startseeing it in the data and
knowing yourself, right, knowingthy body.
Hang on a minute, I'msupercharged here.
I'm going into that hyperactivelevel where I know I can't come

(41:08):
back down.
Now is my time to take a littlebreak.
Interestingly, you know, in thiswhole addiction research part
is it's very, very, very common,right?
So trauma being one of the bigthings that creates
neurodivergence, add, adhd, thatdysregulation in the central

(41:28):
nervous system drives thisdesire to numb out and avoid,
and what we do is we get linkedinto work and we find a way to
get extremely busy, avoidingfeeling.
And guess what happens?
If people are able to handle ahigh level of stress and they
are really busy, getting busythey become super successful.

(41:50):
So this is why the highachievers and the people that we
are talking to in the majorityof our programs business owners
and people they all identifywith maybe I am a bit ADD, maybe
I am ADHD.
I have wondered if I'm bipolar,you know things like that
because actually these thingsare all intrinsically linked,
sorry.
So just touching on some of theother core drivers, because I

(42:12):
think it's important for peopleto kind of reflect on these.
The next real driver is likerelationships.
Our closest relationships to usare a significant driver of
compulsion If they're broken.
You've been through a divorceor lost a loved one, right, we
can't change that, but we canchange the feelings and it's
working with those feelings thatwe have around it.

(42:32):
That will reduce compulsion.
And you know, if you're goingthrough a divorce, right, and
you're like, well, this is justgoing to be extremely tumultuous
right now, then maybe it'simportant for you to do the
trauma work and calm down thestress in other areas so you're
not going to be so reliant oncompulsive behavior, because not
all of these things are goingto be in balance all the time.
Don't be ridiculous.
We don't go and sort thesethings out and they're all in

(42:54):
green and you can move onhappily ever after.
Right, they're a constant work,they're a constant balance, but
at least knowing exactly whatthey are is important.
So connection to others andaround us is really important
and many, many, many people goin search of stopping drinking
and then they avoid their socialcircle, they cancel seeing
their friends, they know theyget too much peer pressure, they

(43:15):
hide out at home.
Well, guess what?
That creates disconnection, andunless you're a sociopath, we
cannot be disconnected.
So guess what it does.
It brings you back to the fold,because the only way you know
how to feel connected to yourgroup of people who are your
friends and all that stuff, isto drink again.
And this is the importance ofcreating connection out with

(43:35):
this getting around groups ofpeople who you can have fun or
be successful or releasedopamine through sport or
whatever it is, who are notchoosing to drink, and that's
building those connections outwith.
So various other areas,emotional regulation, mental
health, mental health etc.
That really are the coredrivers.

(43:55):
But ultimately, what we'resaying are these are all things
that you can change, and whenyou do change these things like,
first of all, get awareness ofthem, and we use data and
technology to help you getawareness and then, once you
start changing them if notchange them significantly the
vast majority of your drinkingslash compulsion will evaporate,
because they are the drivers.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
And many, many, many.
It sounds so simple when you'reputting all of that into place.
The hard part, I would imaginefor a lot of people, is
understanding they're notpowerless.
And when you realize that itcan be quite confronting because
what's the next step for me?
What if I don't like who I amor what if I don't want to
accept those things about myself?

(44:37):
From my own personal experience, going through and I guess,
dealing with trauma and some ofthe dumb shit I did when I was
younger was having to acceptthose versions of myself and go
okay, that's where I was at thisversion of myself wouldn't have
done that, but I can't changethat.
I can only move forward, whichmeans, once again, I need to be
aware of all the stuff that Iwant to be in control of,

(44:59):
because we're in control ofeverything.
There's some things maybe wedon't need to focus on right now
, but the areas that you justmentioned there, like connection
, stress, all of those thingsare such powerful things, but
you don't necessarily changethem overnight.
I remember and we probablyspoke about this when we first
had a podcast but when I gotinto business, I wanted to be a

(45:21):
millionaire and I read a bookand I was like I need to hang
around millionaires.
That's going to be my fasttrack, right, I'm going to be
able to learn all their tips andtricks and language that they
use, but millionaires at thatpoint.
Or the ones that I wanted tohang around language that they
use, but millionaires at thatpoint or the ones that I wanted
to hang around didn't want tohang around with me.
So the perspective was I couldsay I'm not good enough and just

(45:42):
stay there, or I could go.
Who do I need to become, whatdo I need to be in control of
and how do I grow through thatto become that version of myself
?
And ultimately that started forme with alcohol.
So I can't be doingrecreational drugs like I used
to and I can't be binge drinking, because that's just not going
to allow me to become the manthat I wanted to be.
And it was confrontationalbecause I had to recognize I was

(46:06):
a bit of a pig back in the day.
But that's, you know.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
that's a foundational step to grow and you're only
going to look back at thejourney and be proud of that
amazing, and I think that's thebehavior change comes from
either having enough pain orenough pleasure, um, and when,
when you're working inprevention.
So you know, oh, I thinkalcohol is causing me more

(46:30):
trouble than I realize.
Uh, but it would be much easierfor me to just carry on as it
is because that's what everyoneelse is doing.
So it's actually really reallyfucking hard to change your
relationship with alcohol insociety today.
It's really hard.
And so if we want to get clearon the pain, this is about

(46:50):
sitting down and writing down.
Like, what is this costing me?
You know the truth, truth.
How often am I hungover?
What percentage of me isshowing up at work on monday?
What, if I'm truthful, like if100%, is me out there crushing
it, smashing out of park, youknow, just all fully aligned,
just like that guy or gal?
Then, um, if that's 100%, whatpercentage of you is showing up

(47:14):
on Monday?

Speaker 1 (47:15):
What about on Tuesday ?
What about on Wednesday?

Speaker 2 (47:18):
And what about at home?
If I was to bring your kidsonto the call or have a
conversation with your kids andsay what impact is his drinking,
his dad's drinking, mum'sdrinking having on your
relationship with your parents?
What would they say?
What about your, your partner,if you just get them quietly on

(47:39):
their own and say what impact isis their drinking having on you
or your relationship?
What would they say?
What's the worst thing about isher drinking, you know.
So as you start to get reallyclear, you start to draw a
picture of truth, not the stuffthat's sat back in your
subconscious.
This is the truth.
Here's the thing.
What happens if you don't dothis?

(48:01):
Well, I think the vast majorityof us, many of us, sleepwalk to
a problem, we sleepwalk tosomething breaking.
We're almost waiting for itquietly.
We're waiting for you know toget caught drink driving or to
have you know somebody say andwe don't need to wait for that.
So inside here, I remember whenI, when we published our book,

(48:26):
the wonderful lady, the owner ofthe publisher, pam McMillan,
you know, sat down with her andshe said you know, she's in her
60s and she said out of all ofmy friends, I'm the only one who
put my.
Sat down with her.
And she said you know, she's inher 60s.
And she said out of all of myfriends, I'm the only one who
put my foot down with my husbandabout his drinking.
And out of all of my friends,I'm the only one whose husband
isn't either dead or has a verysignificant issue or health

(48:48):
problems because of alcohol.
And in a way, I speak to anawful lot of men who say, oh, my
wife is good as gold.
You know, she doesn't, really,she doesn't mind, she doesn't
mind and I'm like, okay, butshe's an enabler.
Then she is helping you makethis problem worse and really

(49:08):
what you need is even more toget clear Like, come on, don't
you think you could be better?
And, in essence, on the otherside of it, if you sit listening
to this and go, ah yeah, I justI really don't think.
You know, it's not for me, or Idon't drink that much, or
whatever it is.
What I just say to people iswhy not give it a shot?

(49:28):
I mean, it's not going to costyou very long to find out.
Maybe 30 days, maybe 60 days ofreally going all in on changing
your relationship with alcohol.
You know, applying some of thethings I've talked about here,
um, and if you don't feel betterand your life doesn't start to
feel better and things improvewell, I'd be absolutely
gobsmacked.

(49:50):
But, it will exactly, and then Ithink you've got your answer.
And I feel this way abouteverything.
By the way, if there'ssomething you're regularly
consuming that you feel that youneed and caffeine is up there,
and sweets and sugar, and socialmedia and your phone if there's
something you feel you need,why not just try a break with it
?
Because I think by having abreak, you actually see that

(50:12):
this best friend of yours isactually a toxic asshole.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
And many, and by having a break you actually see
that this best friend of yoursis actually a toxic asshole.
I couldn't agree more with that, Even if your life is good.
When I first did a three-monthstint off a couple of years ago,
I didn't realize how good Iwasn't feeling.
I didn't feel terrible.
The mental clarity and theenergy and the focus was
phenomenal.
But the mental clarity and theenergy and the focus was
phenomenal, and so now the exactreason why I'm doing the 12

(50:38):
months now is I don't have anissue, my energy is awesome,
life's going well, but I'm justcurious to see what it feels
like, and every day I'm nothaving a drink, I'm starting to
enjoy that more and I'm noticingmy standing out is just
remembering people's names.
It's phenomenal.
And my brother-in-law becausethere's six of us who aren't

(50:59):
drinking, my brother-in-law hasdropped 10 kilos.
His memory is through the roof,and this is literally since
just before New Year's right.
So it's not that long a time,just yet.
So the benefits are through theroof.
I just want to be mindful oftime.
One last question Changing therelationship with alcohol.
Just want to be mindful of time.
One last question the change inthe relationship with alcohol
doesn't mean completely cuttingit out.

(51:20):
A lot of people go.
I just want a Shiraz, I want todrink at my wedding, all of
these sorts of things and Ithink one thing that I heard you
mention on the Rich Rollpodcast as well, was that it's
like there is benefit indrinking right, there's social
interactions and stuff like that.
You still drink personally,obviously.
I'd love to quickly get youroverview on that and many 100.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Well, first of all, um, after decades of research,
and also myself, I did a yearalcohol free.
Now I drink as much as I want,whenever I want.
I just usually choose not todrink and I've removed all the
associations.
I don't go for steak and havered wine.
I used to always, but now I'mpredominantly carnivore, so that
would mean I'd be drinking winethree meals a day, but anyway,

(52:07):
I was wondering what you weredrinking before Water.
I'm sipping away on red winewhilst on this podcast.
Do as I say, not as I do.
No.
So I think you know, afterdecades of research, tens of
thousands of people all over theworld, where we'd asked people
what would you like yourrelationship with alcohol to
look like to the wide public outthere, 6% want to stop drinking

(52:29):
and almost everything out thereis about sobriety and stopping
drinking and how amazingstopping drinking is.
You're only talking to 6% ofthe market.
It's not what people want.
And because of that, becausethere isn't enough conversation
about hey, let's reduce, let'sjust cut back a little bit, why
not in 2024, just change yourrelationship with alcohol a
little bit.
Like what would look that foryou?

(52:50):
Because there's not enough ofthat conversation.
People do nothing and so theydo nothing and things continue
to get worse.
So with everything, we're apreventative health company.
I believe that preventionshould always swim upstream and
keep going upstream and keepgoing upstream so we can help
people earlier and more if wefocus on control.
That's the first thing.
The second thing with that isso the conversation there is

(53:13):
control.
People come into our programcomplete control because they
are looking for control.
By the end of it, 93 percent ofpeople choose to carry on
alcohol free after the program.
Not forever, right, but they'resaying that's it, I'm I'm done
now.
They wanted control, they camein for control, but when we help
them see the truth and this isreally really, really important,
really important, Okay, thetruth is, first of all, we have

(53:36):
to go to town on thisself-sabotage layer driven by
these past experiences that arerunning amok inside all of our
head.
Okay, we have to go to town ontrauma.
The second thing is that reallyto help people understand and
see, in data and with clarity,that actually everything that
they want, everything they wantat their core of who they are as

(53:57):
a human being.
I'm talking about, hey, whenpeople are standing around your
grave zone, what are they sayingabout you?
What's your impact?
How did you show up?
Right, when you get super clearon who you believe you are as a
human being, the impact thatyou want to have and that what
you see, is that everything thatyou want literally everything
that you want to be happy towhat you see is that everything
that you want, literallyeverything that you want to be
happy to be healthy, to besuccessful, to have a good

(54:20):
marriage, to be loved and adoredby your children, to be
successful, to have lots ofwonderful friends, to leave a
legacy, to have longevity, tohave peak performance and
optimal health later in life.
Everything that you want isactually being taken away by
alcohol, and that's the truth.
And when you show people thatthere's no coming back from that

(54:43):
, they will never be the same.
Luke, a well-known e-commerceentrepreneur in the UK, came to
our program and he said youcannot unlearn the things you
learn in complete control.
And so I like to describemyself as a white, slightly
prettier version of Morpheusfrom the Matrix, and I'm
standing in front of people withthe two pills and I'm like,

(55:05):
once you take this, there is nogoing back.
And instead of going to ahorrible, dark, miserable world
with robots, we actually go to amuch nicer world.
So a slightly differentcomparison.
World with robots, we actuallygo to a much nicer world.
So slightly differentcomparison.
So sorry, the element ofcontrol is really powerful.
I want to give one more examplehere.
So I had an ex-pro NFL athletecome on the program.

(55:31):
This guy, total legend.
He's built a large privateequity business in the US.
Complete machine, 12 timesIronman champion.
I mean a monster.
And in the originalconversation.
He's like you know, Ruri, Idon't have that much of a
problem with alcohol.
Like I can do a year alcoholfree, no bother.
I've done it twice, that's nota problem for me.
But when I do have a drink it'slike I've won the Superbowl and
I disappear for three days andI can't afford that.

(55:53):
Like I've got a respectablebusiness family, like I just
can't afford this.
If you can help me tackle thisthen I'll be gobsmacked.
Now he took quite a long timeto sign up.
There was lots of umming andahhing and he wanted to check
everything over.
You know lots of people.
Early days in the program therewas a lot of skepticalness.
I'm going to read out the twothings.
I'm going to read out the twothings.
Six months later he sends methis program.

(56:13):
Now he always said that thebiggest issue for him was when
he got together with hisbrothers, With his brothers and
with his ex-NFL athletes.
That's when it just went mad.
So Thanksgiving was a greatexample.
I rented an entire boutiquehotel for my extended family 26
people, Lucky guy.
Being with my brothers isalways a huge trigger.
So I packed a few cases ofathletic brewing to keep on ice.

(56:35):
I went alcohol-free Wednesday,allowed myself to drink regular
beer with my brothers Thursday,but shut it down at midnight
before things got crazy.
Then went back to alcohol-freeFriday, Saturday and Sunday.
I worked out every day andspent tons of quality time with
my kids, mum, siblings, niecesand nephews.
It was a blast.
I honestly think learningcontrol is 10,000% more powerful

(56:56):
than quitting altogether.
Condemning yourself to alifetime of abstinence is simply
too daunting for most people.
Allowing myself to haveoccasional cheat days has been a
huge part of my success.
That was six months after theprogram, a year after the
program, and we're recordingthis on Tuesday, just after
Super Bowl on Sunday, and hesends me this message with this

(57:19):
image here.
I'm just showing you up there.
Yeah, that was on the SuperBowl.
He says day two in Vegas forthe Super Bowl.
What have you done to me Withfive question marks and there's
a picture of a salad along withwater and a Guinness.
Zero, yes.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Yeah, that is awesome .

Speaker 2 (57:36):
And this is the thing is that people don't want to
stop drinking, and so we have tomeet them where they are
Condemning.
Abstinence does not equalcontrol.
In fact, abstinence on its owncan often make your relationship
with it worse.
We've proven this many times.
Just aversion theory?
No, you can't have that.
Here's an example, lachlan.
Many times, just aversiontheory?
No, you can't have that.
Here's an example, lachlan.

(57:57):
Don't think of a pink elephant?
Whoops, right.
So that's a very simple, notquite related example, but this
is what happens in aversiontherapy trying to avoid
something.
So the solution is notabstinence on its own, but
here's the thing A period ofabstinence gives you the tools

(58:17):
that you need right Energy,clarity, productivity,
authenticity all of the clarityand the desire that you need to
do the work, which will give youcontrol, and that's the key of
helping people in a moresignificant way.
I think that the whole fliparound here is to say to people

(58:40):
hey, you can have a take it orleave it relationship with
alcohol?
You can.
You're going to have to changesome things in your life and we
can take you on that journeyright.
I don't know how long thatjourney is for you.
It depends on where you are onthis sliding scale.
At the end of the day, if youare currently a severe alcoholic
sorry, I use that word becausea lot of other people do, but

(59:05):
it's not a term used by thescientific community anymore.
We should really be usingsevere alcohol use disorder you
could be a very severe alcoholuse disorder, be homeless, you
know, in a significant childhoodtrauma.
Okay, well, that there's a longroad and a lot of work that
we're going to have to do inorder for you to get there.
But do I believe it's possiblewith every fiber of my being?
And to tell people that you'regoing to be powerless for the

(59:27):
rest of your life because of adisease is a fucking lie.
So I don't mean to beoverenthusiastic with that, but
my version means that we canheal addiction.
The other version means that wecan't, and I don't want to
believe in that reality and alsoit's not the truth anywhere
else in the world.

(59:47):
So why, would it be truthfulwith this?

Speaker 1 (59:51):
It's a great way to finish.
I could not agree anymore withthat.
I think when people accept thatthey can't change where they're
at, it's just such a powerlessposition and you want to live in
hope and you want to live inproductivity to moving towards
that version of yourself.
So I love what you guys aredoing.
Where can people find out more?
Condemning?

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
you All over the interwebs.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
One year.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
they'll be here, you'll find us.
You will find me, roryFairbairns.
If anyone else has that name,I'll be gobsmacked.
I feel for them already.
Just that has been traumatic.
Do you know how many times I'vehad to spell that out on a
phone call, good Lord?
How many hours of my life.
So, rory Fairbairns, on thingslike Instagram, if you want to
reach out to me, you can emailme, ruri, at oneyearnobeercom

(01:00:36):
it's complicated spelling, sogood luck with that.
But we're on oneyearnobeercom,on Facebook, instagram, all the
usual LinkedIn putting outplenty of free content.
I'm heard from thousands ofpeople all the time about how
we've inspired them and helpedthem change their relationship
with alcohol.
You can find our podcast, so Ibring some of the world's most

(01:00:57):
experienced and most relevantscientists from Yale, stanford,
from UCL, various wonderfulinstitutions around addiction,
trauma, behavior change, habitscience onto our podcast to help
people.
There's tons of free resources.
If you want to come on througha journey which is going to help
you significantly increase yourbusiness, increase productivity

(01:01:20):
, help you get on top ofrelationships, improve many,
many areas of your life in ashort period of time, because
you just want to get this done,then come and check out our
Complete Control Program.
It is revolutionary and I'msuper excited to get this out to
the world more, and thank you,lachlan, for helping me do that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Thank you for jumping on here.
It's so inspiring to see howfar the movement's come since we
spoke last as well, and I'mvery inspired to continue seeing
it and hopefully we'll touchbase over the next couple of
years and you'll be continuingto empower and change people's
lives.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Amazing.
Thank you so much for helping.