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June 22, 2023 60 mins

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What's up Plant People! Today's guest is someone who I've unabashedly called, on multiple occasions, "The Funniest Person on the Internet." She was reluctant to wear the title, but I'm sticking with it! Sarah Southerland is the communication and social media specialist with the Oklahoma Dpeartment of Wildlife Conservation. Her social media presence is *wildly* popular across several platforms and consistently makes me laugh out loud. Whether talking about why we shouldn't snuggle mountain lions or discussing the finer points of live jackets, Sarah's communication style is brilliant, effective, and hilarious. We talked about life, nature, good communication, moon fish, prairies, and so much more! This episode was so much fun and I know you won't be able to stop smiling the whole time! 

Sarah's Links

Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation Links

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Planthropology is written, hosted, and produced by Vikram Baliga. Our theme song is "If You Want to Love Me, Babe, by the talented and award-winning composer, Nick Scout.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is up?
plant people Hey, it's timeonce more for the Plantherpology
podcast, the show where we diveinto the lives, careers and
general awesomeness of some verycool plants and nature people
to figure out why they do whatthey do and what keeps them
coming back for more.
I'm Vikram Beliga, your hostand your humble guide in this
journey through the sciences and, as always, my dearest friends.
I am so excited to be with youtoday.

I'm gonna be honest, this onegot me a little bit.
I was so excited to talk totoday's guests Like the fact
that she even agreed to talk tome was crazy.
But my guest runs what I thinkis the best account on social
media and I'm not even gonna putany caveats on that.
I think it is the funniestthing on the internet.

So my guest today is named SarahSutherland and she is the
social media specialist with theOklahoma Department of Wildlife
Yes, my friends, that OklahomaDepartment of Wildlife
Conservation that puts outbanger after banger of funny
tweet and TikTok and Instagramreel and it is, for me, the

pinnacle of sciencecommunication right now.
It's so good in terms ofdiscussing policy and
interacting with nature and allof it boils down to Sarah's
brilliant mind and wonderfulpersonality and incredible sense
of humor, and now she runs thesocial media efforts at the
Oklahoma Department of WildlifeConservation, talking about
everything from the reasons thatyou shouldn't hug a mountain

lion's, as cute and huggable asthey look, to why you should
interact with wildlife and whyyou should wear a life jacket.
She heads up the communicationof so much science and so much
policy and she does it, in myopinion, expertly.
Sarah and I had a long, greatconversation about her life, her
career, the reason she doeswhat she does and some of the

ethos and ideas behind thiswonderful outlet on the internet
So y'all are going to love Sarah.
She is wonderful and anabsolute delight of a human
being And I don't think I'moverselling this.
I think this is 100% anaccurate representation of what
you're about to hear.
So I'm going to shut up so youcan hear episode 99 of the Plant

Hropology podcast with one ofmy very favorite people, sarah
["plan Thropology"].
["plan Thropology"].
Sarah, i am so excited to talkto you today.
Like I don't want to oversellthis, but I think you're the

funniest person on the internet.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Oh no, that isn't oversell.
You can't say that.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
I am tying you to that right now.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Don't do that to me.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Four seconds into this podcast.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Oh no, what am I supposed to do?
How long is this podcast?

Speaker 1 (02:46):
I mean as long as it needs to be.
We're just going to talk aboutthis the whole time.
It's going to be real awkward.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
We don't have that much material, i know.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
You didn't realize you were supposed to come on and
tell jokes for 40 minutes.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Oh my gosh, Yeah terrible.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
So, sarah, why don't you introduce yourself a little
bit more?
Tell us what you do and yourbackground, how you got there,
whatever you want to tell us.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
OK, cool, let me think My name is Sarah
I work for the OklahomaDepartment of Wildlife
I am a communication andeducation specialist.
So what that means is I do alot of different things And my
friends, who all have the samejob title, do a lot of different

things, and we try to make itwork.
And what else about me?
I have been here for like threeyears And, yes, that is it.
I'm sorry I didn't rehearse.
Maybe we can do that again.
We can do that again.

I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
No, it's fine, It's fine.
So what's your background?
What did you study in school?
Where did you grow up?
All that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
OK, let me think.
What do we want to do first?
Do we want to do like I guessstart with your background.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Where did you grow up ?
How did you get into nature?

Speaker 2 (04:06):
to get into nature.
That's good.
Let me think I grew up kind ofall over the place, so my
parents are preachers And beforethat they were in the military.
So I was actually born in Texas.
I was born on Fort Hood, alittle army brat, and then we

just moved around a lot.
So my dad would take churchesin really small towns And it was
just me I'm like one of fivesiblings, so big family And we
would just move around a lot tothese small little churches in
Texas and Oklahoma.
So I was always in a rural areawithout a lot of friends.

And so what do you do?
You just go outside.
And that's kind of where Idon't want to say there was ever
a moment that I was like oh,wow, outside.
It was just we were.
I don't want to say we wereferal, because that sounds bad
on my mom, but I'm one of theolder kids, so I'm like we were

in, go outside kids, get out ofthe house, kids.
And if I wanted peace and quiet, i had one of my favorite
places to go was this ditchbehind the house And we lived in
And there was this tornadoshelter that had been dumped
there And so I was just sittingon top of this cement block in a

ditch, probably covered inpoison, ivy and stuff.
That's how I figured out I'mnot allergic, that's good to
Yeah, it was about treachingthrough this ditch.
My dad would call me and belike you can't go through there,
there's going to be snakes andstuff.
I'd be like, yeah, i saw them,there's so many snakes in there,
just kind of a thing.

So I was an outside kid Andthen as a grown up, of course
you get into college And a lotof times people lose that
connection to nature when you'retrying to get your life
together because nature verymuch is a leisure thing for a
lot of people And in yourlifestyles.

So I got really broke basicallyin college and realized that I
was pretty good at living in mycar.
So I was very much one of thoseNational Parks, hobos kind of
situation where I'm being Ted'sparents.
It's so sad Everyone wasconverting their vans and stuff

because I was in college at thebig era of influencers van life
That was hot when I was incollege That was what everyone
was doing.
I could not afford that.
I was so broke.
But I had a forward escape AndI had pretty good knowledge of
how to start a fire.

So I just did that and learnedthrough lots of trial and error
basically how to be outside moreand did a lot of backpacking
and saw a lot of the countrythat way, just very much like
the broke kid wandering aroundway.
Don't regret it.
I do wish I would have had moreprotein in my diet at that time

But well, and now I'm here.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, it's interesting you say that because
I think there is this veryromanticized like you're talking
about, like hashtag van lifeculture on the internet And you
see all these vans that peoplebuild out.
I'm like that cost you $70,000.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
It does.
That is not like a Yes, it'slike be free, be a nomad.
And then you know, but I waseating like gold fishies.
That was my sustenance for along time, because you can buy
those huge gallon versions forlike 10 bucks.
And then there's enough saltthat you can get into altitude

and be OK for a still Be.
Like I'm, sustaining water,it's all right.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, goldfish are like the perfect altitude food.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Oh they are.
I could talk about that for anhour if you wanted to.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
I'll get you Like the pros and cons, or just the pros
, of goldfish.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yes, there's only pros.
That's like it has more cardsthan you think, but it's like 55
crackers is only like 140calories, i think.
Yes, yes.
So if you're like working outor you're climbing like I run
into climbing a lot and you'renot looking for a snack that'll
like make you take off yourgloves or I like to ice climb.

So I like snacks that I canjust pull out and then put in my
body, like I don't need a bigbarrier, i don't have time for
wrappers, i just need likecalories.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
You need a handful of goldfish and you need to be
going, yeah, moving along, yes,ice climbing.
So what I'm already getting apicture of is that you're far
braver than me and way moreadventurous than me.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
No, not really.
I don't want to think that way,because I'm not, because you,
like, i'm not good at any of it,like I'm not good at it, like
you tell people that you do itand they think you're cool, and
it's like no, no, no, no, no, no.
Like there aren't photos of medoing this because I don't look.
I look like I'm struggling theentire time, but it's fine, so

you just go do it again.
But I'm not good at anythingthat I do, especially
I just go out there Like whatelse is there?
else do you need No.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
I mean, that's fair.
There is a quote from me in Idon't know if it was my junior
yearbook or my senior yearbookin high school.
I played tennis in high schoolbecause look at me And the quote
is yeah, tennis is okay, butchess is my real sport.
I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
I said that.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
I don't know, I'm bad at chess Like, in fact, I'm
worse at chess than I am attennis Next But at the time I
was like this will be funny.
I think, I have taken and I'mrealizing now that I've done
this for more of my life than Icare to admit of oh, he tells
silly little jokes and I'veturned it into my, like my
entire personality.
Yes, That's my wholepersonality.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yes, i resonate with that.
I resonate with people beinglike oh, you're funny.
And then, especially when I wasa kid.
Now, as an adult, i really justI don't know what's wrong with
me Like my brain, my brain ischanging and I can feel it, but
that's a different conversation.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
But as a kid.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
I'd be like, oh, this person liked me that one time
that I did this, so I'm going tokeep being that way, like keep
fitting that vibe, and it getshard to keep up with.
I just feel like meet differentpeople and you're like, okay,
what do we do?
Oh yeah, we're like avolleyball friend.
And then when you get intodating, it's even worse because
it's like, oh my God, yes, thatwas random, i'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
No, no, no, no, no.
I totally no, i'm totally rightthere with you.
That's such like a relatableexperience, just about Well.
But it's also an interestingthing, like when we talk about,
you know, hiking and camping andfishing, and even just like,
like I got into in college for alittle bit, just like going out
and like looking at plants withfriends and things like that,

and because it's like, oh, thisis something I can go do with
The nature in general andplants and animals and
everything else are somethingthat in a lot of ways, are
really easy to like bond over,like you form good friendships
doing those kinds of things.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yes, like I don't know, i was such a loner in my
connection to nature because itwas literally how I got away
from all my siblings.
It's how I got out of the house, kind of a thing.
And now that I'm a grownup andI'm doing things with people,
i've actually had to learn tonot be just such a weirdo, to be
like they'll just take offwalking and not tell people what

you're doing or that you see,something Like I do that to my
husband all the time.
I'll just straight up, ditchhim and then be like oh crap,
i'm over here Like I don't think, sorry.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Or like yeah, That's funny.
That's really funny.
Well, and I laugh because, likeI've had a similar experience.
My wife has a degree inwildlife science.
She studied conservation andecology And so like we'll go to
the zoo and she's all about theanimals And I'm this dope like
standing off to the side,there's like lions and I'm

staring at a tree like an idiot.
And she's like what are youdoing?
I'm like this tree's cool.
Yeah, and you know, I'm thatguy.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, I'm like, I'm that way.
I'm kind of both those people.
My husband is like a huge plantguy.
I wanted to record this podcastin our greenhouse but that
didn't work out with the wifisituation.
But he's like huge plant person, So whenever we go outside,
he's usually just he just staysin one place for a little bit,

which makes sense because plantsYeah, they stay put, it's great
Yeah, and he like makes a littlecircle and then the circle gets
bigger And then eventuallywe'll be like, okay, we've seen
four trees.
We've been here for 20 minutes.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
But you've seen all the trees, you've seen them
thoroughly, yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:25):

Speaker 1 (13:27):
So what did you study in college?

Speaker 2 (13:29):
I studied I wanted to be.
I don't know why I wanted to dothis, but I wanted to be a
journalist that works overseas.
What are the correspondence?
I really wanted to study beinga correspondent.
So I did a professional mediadegree, which is like the
technical degree.
So it's like camera work, audioengineering, writing.

It's like the technical degreeof journalism.
That's the best way I candescribe it.
And then I got a minor inphotography.

Speaker 1 (14:03):

Speaker 2 (14:04):
So, yeah, so a lot of technical stuff.
And then the minor came from.
I really liked photography, butmy mom was sure that I would
like starve to death if I madethat my major Which is funny
because I paid for school butwhatever.
So I had enough pressure to belike leave me alone.

But yeah, that's what I did.
And then I got a job duringcollege, right before I
graduated, with there's abasketball team here in Oklahoma
So I got a job with the funderhere And yeah, and worked on
their broadcasting team Andthat's where I did way more
technical stuff.

So that's where, like most ofmy, i credit like that,
finishing my education off beinglike, okay, now use the camera.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
Like that's the thing That's interesting too, cause
like and I'm excited to talk alittle bit more about how that
kind of transition into whereyou are now but you actually
have to, like, use your degree,and that's weird to say, but I
feel like a lot of people don'tlike- you get a degree and it's
just like, oh, i'm just going togo get a job And it's cool that

, like, like, you actually getto do the photography and the
media and all that.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
It's very listen, i'm like it is not lost on me How
like hashtag blessed I am to dothat because it is media And.
But even when I was in schoolit was like those jobs it it's
transitioning now really hardthe media industry, but even
then it was like the people whowanted to be worked for

It's like that's not a job thatpeople do anymore And that's
not a job that people are ageget.
It's not a job that's payingyou.
There was a transition that,like, people were leaving print
media and going to digital.
So I just caught a wave ofpeople being like, huh, we
better learn how to use all thisgadgets and software and stuff.

Like, like, you better learnhow to do a lot of different
That's basically what my degreeis And so I get to use it, but
it's because I picked aModgeProsh degree.
If I went to like niche down, iprobably I probably could have
done better out the door.
I don't know, but it would havebeen harder to get through that

That makes sense.
So it's like yeah, i went forthe Swiss Army knife.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
And I think I think there's really something to be
said for that, because I thinkthat that's a message that could
send to students.
A lot is that, oh, you need tospecialize, you need to like
figure out exactly what you'regonna do and spend four years
studying that and then go find ajob in this one tiny little
Yes, and there's something tothat, right, like you said, like
maybe there are higher paying,like higher sort of level jobs

in very specific niche things,but, like goodness, they're few
and far between.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yes, yes, and it's a big bet And like, honestly, so
many talented people don't getthose jobs, like so many people
who are deserve those jobs don'tget those jobs, and it has
nothing to do with you if youdon't get it or if you don't
make it through that door.
It's literally like a millionother people who are better than
me won't get this job kind of asituation.

So, yeah, that's, i went for avariety.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, And I think that's cool
Cause, like you know and thereis something to be said too, I
think, for like just starting-right Like just like, okay, i've
got a degree, i'm going to picksomething that's close, you
know, and just starting.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
Yes, I picked sports media.
I did not want to do sportsmedia, but literally I just got
a job.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, sure.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
It's like this sounds like something I'm learning to
do and something I can do later,so I'm going to just do this.
And some of my best friends,who are still like in sports
media doing awesome stuff, didthe same thing, where you're
just like, okay, here's anopportunity, i'm going to just
take it and see what happens,and that has guided me.

Well, it seems like a slackermindset, but it's really not.
It's just like I don't know,here's an opportunity, what's
the worst I could do?

Speaker 1 (18:26):
Fail, it'll be okay, yeah, and I think Yeah, and that
is actually, I think, reallypowerful in a lot of ways,
because, you know, i'm thinkingback to the time like when I was
in high school, college orwhatever, and there was a
picture painted of what likesuccess, or it's not even really

the word I mean, but like whatyour life should look like,
going forward.
They're like you know, you dothis, you get your degree, you
go get the job, you have thehouse with the fence and all the
blah, blah, blah, but, like, inmy experience, life rarely
looks that way.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yes, and I think like there should be more people
telling you that when you're atyour really young and ambitious
ages And like I was just areally scared kid all through
college because I was so poor Ohmy God, it was so poor,
borderline, homeless and justvery on my own, and so that
survivor mentality kicks in andyou're like how am I gonna get

through this, how am I gonnabecome an adult after this, like
if I can't even pay my rent now, kind of a thing, and you just
like scrap your way through itand realize that, oh, maybe
there's some, maybe I was doingthe thing the whole time Like I
kept waiting to arrive to aplace, be like I'll land in

magic adult world.
And that never happened.
It still hasn't happened.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Oh, i don't.
Yeah, no, i'm three degrees inand I still haven't.
I'm still waiting to feel likea grownup.
Yeah, And it's a scary thing,like so.
For part of my job at least.
Currently I run a horticulturalgarden and a greenhouse on
campus at my university.
I hear Texas Tech and likethere's a lot of like.

I employ undergrads and peopleand grad students And some days
I still look around for theadult in the room and then I'm
like, oh crap, that's me.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
I do that all the time I'm the grownup here, Yes,
i do that all the time I have anintern, which blows my mind.
I'm like they gave me an intern, oh my God.
And I forget to like.
What's a better way to say this?
Casually, i forget that I'myour supervisor, even though I
That sounds so bad.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
No, no, no, no, i get it, I totally get it.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
I'm like what are you doing today?
And she's like you tell me.
And I'm like oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
I have to give you things.
No, it's funny becausesometimes my staff will come in
and they'll just be likestanding there looking at me,
i'm like what?

Speaker 2 (21:00):

Speaker 1 (21:01):
Oh, you need me for things sorry.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
What, yeah, what do you want?
Go away, go find something todo.
Oh, i've got to give yousomething to do.
She's so great too, becauseshe's learned that I'm like dude
, just do it.
She's such a self-starter.
So I really dread the day thatshe, she wants to be a game
do you know what that is?

so she wants to be a gamewarden And for some reason, i
have her right now.
So she's like the social mediaintern who only uses Facebook
And it gets on my ever-lovingnerves.
So I'm like I asked for.
they're like here's an intern.
I'm like well, i need a socialmedia intern.
They're like this one wants tobe a game warden.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
So Kind of the same, it's not.
Yeah, sure, yeah.
For those people listening thatmay not know, give me the
elevator pitch of what a gamewarden does.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
A game warden is a state law enforcement officer
who enforces fish and wildlifelaws and regulations.
They check a lot of licenses.
They're like first responders.
They it's a big, it's a big kidjob And my intern wants to be
one of those people and she verywell, very well, is qualified

to be that.
She's like already finished herdegree, she's like on her way
to that track And I just haveher right now being like let's
answer Facebook questions, let'smake a tick tock.
She's like doing herqualifications and she's being
like on her days off and I don'thave her.
She's being like pepper sprayedto get like cleat certified and

stuff And I'm like, oh, i'mlike okay.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
You're like look at this funny thing I put on
She's like they sprayed me inthe face today.
Yeah, I got bear, mace.
Look what's happening.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
What's happened And I'm like, oh, i'm so sorry, but
I'm like, good, i'm glad that.
I'm glad that our game wardenswould have to.
I don't know that they have togo through all of that.
I'm glad that qualified peopleare doing that job.
I just think it's funny thatI'm supervising one of those

I'm like I'm no business withyou, but it's okay.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
That's so funny.
Actually, i think that's a goodplace to take a quick break,
because when we come back, iwant to talk more about your job
specifically and what you do,how you got into it, all of that
, and then Just a little bitmore about communicating about
science and nature and all ofthat.
So we'll take a quick break.
We'll be right back.
Well, hey there, welcome to themidroll.

My friends, i'm so happy you'rehere, aren't you enjoying this
I think when I was editing thisepisode, i smiled the whole
It was so much fun.
Thanks for listening, thanksfor being a part of plant
anthropology Your support meansthe world to me.
Thanks to the tech techdepartment of plant and soil
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merch and everything else thatyou might want to know about

this show, and today I don'thave a trailer for you, but I do
have a plug for my book, plantsto the rescue.
This episode is being releasedon June 22nd 2023 and we're
about three weeks from therelease of my first book, plants
to the rescue, which is aboutclimate change and food supply
and, uh, all the cool sciencethat we're using to um, breed

new plants and find other usesfor plants to address those
things, as well as stuff likepollution and lighting and all
of those cool things.
It is a non-fiction bookwritten for middle grade kids,
so, like you know, third throughfifth grade, ish, eight to 12
years old.
It goes on sale again on july11th everywhere, but it's
available for pre-order nowthrough your favorite online

It would mean the world to meif you would buy one for, uh,
the plant lover or aspiringplant lover in your life.
The illustrations are done by aguy named brian lambart, who is
absolutely incredible.
It's published by a wonderfulpublishing house called neon
squid, so check out their otherbooks as well.
They're all non-fiction andthey're all written by some

really amazing folks, so if yougo check that out, it would mean
a lot to me.
But aside from that, let's jumpback into this great
conversation with sarah and hearmore about her outreach and the
work she does on social media.
All right, well, we are back.
Sarah, other than umsupervising game wardens, uh, or

more soon to be potential gamewardens?

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Just one, i do not see me.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
I shouldn't tell people that right Okay.
Okay uh so.
So tell us a little bit moreabout your job, because you've
got what seems like a reallyinteresting position, um, doing
communications for a governmentagency, and like how did that
come about?
How did you get into that?

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Okay, so it.
I want to say it came frombeing like deeply, deeply
unemployed in the pandemic.
So I I told you I started atthe thunder, so what had
happened was like I don't knowif you follow basketball, but
there was this one game thathappened during COVID, like

early days of COVID, march 2020.
Yeah um, where, like one of theplayers had it, but this was
like before anyone really knewmuch about it.
This was like when it was thismystery disease you die on
contact kind of a situation And,um, so like one of the players
had had it and they cancelledthe game And so essentially,

like that game just shut downthe NBA.
But me and my stupid littlebutt was like in The locker room
media room area and we werejust stranded there for several
Oh my gosh, yeah, me and myfriends were just like, okay,
cool, this mystery disease is inthe building.
People are like kind offreaking out because, yeah, like

they come over the intercom,the game didn't even start and
they're just like everything'sokay but leave.
It's like, um, the thunder.
Actually, i think they ended updoing like a Special documentary
or something about it.
So if you want to go, look atthat, that's somewhere, um, but

So I just kind of saw thewriting on the wall of like
there's probably never going tobe a smoother exit From a job in
my life than this right now.
So it was just I basically gotto say like, okay, i'm gonna,
like I don't want to say breakup with us, but like I'm gonna
go try to find something elseand just got to experience being

So unemployed for like ninemonths after that, like I
entered the job market in marchof 2020.
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, speaking of extreme sports.
Oh yeah, yeah, it sucked, butalso, um, really learned a lot
about what is even possible withmy degree and experience.
And um, i learned like a lot ofsocial media people Were what,
like my resume just kept gettingpicked up by people looking for

like social media And, um, thewildlife department was one of
I met Kelly, who's mysupervisor.
She reached out to me and she'slike hey, hey, this looks good,
please consider applying for it.
We've never had this positionbefore, so like they're, they
never had a social media personbefore.
So we're both kind of likelooking for Some to try

something and we just reallymeshed.
And then from there, like I'vebeen here ever since, so it
really did come from just Goinginto the wild and being like
what's gonna happen.
And then like I think, andthat's all right, i found this
and it's worked out thankfully.
But uh, yeah, zero, zerocontacts as to like what this

would even look like.
On both sides We were just like, okay, cool.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
So so that's really interesting because I think You
know the type of communication,i think and we'll get into some
of the specifics of it as we getinto this but like the type of
policy communication, sciencecommunication, the things that
y'all do Like that's become verylike in vogue in a lot of ways,
yeah, and and.
I feel like and I don't knowthis for sure I feel like y'all

were some of the first onesdoing it.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
I like to say that, but like that sounds Pretty
arrogant So I don't want to.
I'd like to say we were alittle bit on the trend at least

Speaker 1 (31:10):
Uh, but yeah because, like you know, a few years ago
Wendy's started evisceratingpeople on twitter, right That
was their whole thing.
Yes, We're just gonna behorrible to other humans on
twitter and everyone was like,uh, they're funny And like that
was, i think, some of the earlyday and and it sounds weird to
say this but like brands takingmore of a Like having having

more of a personality, so tospeak on social media instead.
Of this is our policy, this isour thing.
They were like actually likereal people on there.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yes, i, i don't want to say that's even a trend, i
want to like that's just a pivotin the landscape, like it's
It's not technology evolving,but it is a little bit of a ball
move, you know, because it'slike people's internet literacy
changed, changes like the longerthat we use it.
Yeah, people don't like talkingabout, so I don't know why you

would let your whole socialplatform sound like one And then
wonder why it's not working.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
Well, and I think we forget sometimes that like and
you say it's, i think you kindof Is technology evolving in
some ways, or at least ourapplication of it.
I think we forget that, likesocial media is still So young
what I was a freshman in collegewhen Facebook came out, like
2005 as freshman college and Itwas like you know, you could

message people at youruniversity that had a dot edu.
Like You're like I have ninefriends on Facebook.
I'm kind of a big deal And itwas.
It was like this whole weirdthing and so, like, even in my
experience, my entire adult lifeHas been sort of watching this
thing evolve and and this, likeyou say, i think this is a big

evolution in the way that wehave Started to use the outlet,
use the technology.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yes, i actually agree , because it's like how we
communicate, we I don't know.
We just get so stuck inbelieving that like people think
and feel the same way that weDo, and then we have this whole
context of, like human evolution.
That is just the internet, andso, like, if you really think
about it, the internet isn'teven that new, i mean, isn't

even that old.
So of course, it's changed theway that we speak to each other,
and then we developed thiswhole new part of the internet
that's designed just to speakingto each other Essentially to
strangers and then we putalgorithms behind it to make us
better at it.
So it's like you either learnhow to use the tool or you don't
, but it's essentially likespeaking another language.

It there's a lot of Literacythat has to go into it, and I
think the successful brands arebehind when it comes to being
like Just underestimating thecustomer.
I think it's really rude toAssume that people can't read
crappy marketing or like thatpeople can't read low effort

If that makes sense, it's likebecause they do and they will
tell you about it.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Oh, oh for sure.
Oh, absolutely 1 millionpercent, yes, so, so then.
so, specifically, i guess, talka little bit about and I don't
even know what the right way toask this question, so I'm gonna
leave it a little open-ended.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Please do.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
So so you have sort of multiple platforms of Like
Oklahoma Department of Wildlife,right Like that you you have
outlets on Instagram, twitter,tiktok, it kind of kind of
How, how did that?
I mean see, you got into thisjob.
You and your supervisor wereboth sort of trying to figure
out what it was gonna look like,how it Evolved into like what

it is today because, like I feellike over the past year, your
stuff has gained so muchpopularity.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
It's well, a lot of work, like.
I want to say like it is onpurpose, so like that's always a
positive thing.
So when I got here, i wasreally lucky that That Kelly,
the supervisor that I have thathired me.
She was the person running thesocial media accounts, just by

volunteer basis, like basicallyThey they got a Facebook account
, i want to say in like 2008 orsomething like that, and then
Just like used it forannouncements and things like
that, and so it was prettysuccessful and popular because
it was older To and like peopleused it.
But when I got here, kelly wasmoving up to a supervisor

position And it had just grownto this thing that couldn't just
be an Add-on to a full-time job.
It had to be a full-time jobAnd so I basically just have
like a lot more room to actuallydo the work necessary to make
it take off and change itbecause, like, it's hard to try

to do as a side gig, because itis something that I'm a
specialist in And I feel reallybad when you like you hear the
trope all the time of like andinterns can doing our stuff,
like Controlling our stuff.
It's like wow, that's.
I don't think you know whatyou're doing in that person,
like that's a full-time job.
But okay, don't do that to them, but you should give them a

raise and full-time benefits.
But yeah, so it took a lot ofwork to get things to take off.
Basically, i inherited it andthen Was like alright, here's
how, here's where we can improve.
And Twitter was a big problemchild for us, which is like no
hate to anybody, becauseTwitter's hard.
It is hard and it's a very toughaudience to oh my gosh, very

tough audience and also it was2020, so, um, tough, tough
audience of Yeah, so it.
It was a lot of just throwingthings against the wall and
seeing if it would stick andthen Taking really hard notes
when people would like be rudeto me.
I really can't be like theydidn't like that.

Let's try another joke Basically, and then really working on the
algorithm stuff on the back endand just telling the people
that I work with and then Ivolunteer with.
Be like I'm not just Messingaround, like I am being
earnestly trying and that took asecond to build that trust to

be like I'm not just goofingaround, guys, this is my purpose

Speaker 1 (37:28):
Well, and that's such a good point too, especially on
the communication side of this,because, like it, like you're
saying and I think it's a goodpoint that you make that No,
it's like a real job.
Like it's like a real difficultthing, because in the past You
would have people that read,right, newsletters and press
releases and go on the radio andgo on TV, and I'm sure that's
still something that is donequite a bit in a lot of places,
Yes, i worked for the extensionservice for four years as a

county agent and I did a lot ofthat, right?
Yeah, but it was like I can geton there and write a newsletter
that a hundred people read, orI can write a funny tweet that
has some actual content and itcould go viral and and Two, two
million people might see it.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
And there is real value to it.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
It is, it is in.
Like last year, i think, we gotlike eight million Interactions
and just like No, that's,that's not right.
I think in likes, retweets andAnd something, it's a really
small metric.
It's not including impressions.

We got that many peopledirectly Talking to us just on
That's a lot of people.
That's where people then likecomes to the website.
Sometimes It's like those arepeople directly talking to us.
We're not counting like themight, what I consider better
vanity metrics, or it's likepeople saw it, the people who

saw tweets.
I want to say it's like 163million or something like just
really high visibility, and it'slike okay, the content is very
important because it moves fast,yeah, on Twitter.
So it's like we got a pic, yougot a cherry pic.
It's a small piece of contentbut it goes far.

It's like a marble on aslingshot.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
No, it's pretty true.
One of the one of the firstlike big tweets I remember
seeing, i think when I followedy'all, was about a mountain lion
and like.
Telling people not to hug it.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
God, i'm flake.
If I could undo anything, if Ihold life, i Would undo that I.
Every time I see that photo, iFeel like one of my kidneys like
twinge a little bit.
It's just something deep withinme that like hates it.

Yes, that happened.
So basically, my co-workerDarren here, i'll show you.
I'm sorry the podcast is aAudio medium but, like Vikram
gets to see this, this is thewhiteboard where all of our
tweets come from okay, yes, ijust the words.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
I saw very quickly were the bachelorette and waffle

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Yes, what is that?
I think Animal Bachelorette,okay.
So basically everybody walks byand like just brights down
tweets, and then our tweets comefrom this.
This is where it comes from.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
Yeah, it's really funny, which is why we get to
like I.
I credit it with why our tweetsare so funny, because it's not
just me like I get Annoyingafter like five minutes.
It's multiple people we canpick from, but the mountain lion
one was one of those on okaynot the whiteboard, but like

Darren sent me a text, he's likethis would be funny, and then
we just made our own meme out ofit and then hit send.
And here we are now.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yes, because of murder mittens.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Yes, i really hate it .
And so, like that day, like allthe plumbing in my house had
exploded because it was so cold,which was part of the joke that
we wrote in.
So I'm in like an emergencysituation, like my house is
flooding and I'm trying to finda place to live and get all my
dogs together, and then thistweet is going viral, like my

job is on fire, my poor husbandis like Like literally standing
in water, and I'm like RyanReynolds is interactive with my
What is Ted Cruz doing here?
Get out.
Yeah, what is?

Speaker 1 (41:46):
going on Your phone is literally having like a
nuclear meltdown.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, i'm gonna cry.
I'm really gonna cry.
I'm so overstimulated right nowI don't know what to do.
So a lot of those replies arelike In real time, like
responses to people, because Iwas like in an elevated
situation Just being.
You know, people are sayingdumb stuff and I'm like shut up,
i'm doing other things rightnow.

We kind of Kind of move on, butyeah, but from there it really
did like give the people aroundhere and the people that I work
with a lot of trust that oh,like, you can quote-unquote go
viral and things not be badAgain.
2020 was a really hard year foreverybody going viral.

I Have a lot of mercy on peoplewho, like are skeptical of
stuff because they they tend tohave good points.
We don't like to hear that.
But yeah, yeah, that's whatthat was for us.
And then we got to.
We I want to say we alreadypivoted our voice before then.
I'm gonna give us credit.
We had some tweets like pop off, but I think the highest we got

was like six thousand and stuff.
So like the algorithm isalready there to like Really tip
something over, so a lot ofpeople reference them online.
But we're like we had somereally good dumb bangers back in

Speaker 1 (43:12):
I'm gonna have to go.
Do you find some deep cuts toshare with this?

Speaker 2 (43:15):

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Well and so so kind of tying off of that.
So I'm looking, i lookedthrough sort of your Social
media and you've got somewherein the neighborhood of like half
a million followers acrossplatforms, and maybe more than
that actually.

Speaker 2 (43:31):

Speaker 1 (43:32):
I think it was like 200,000 on Twitter to Something
on 230 on tick tock and maybe 50on Instagram or something, and
I try not to look at Facebook.
I have a new rule that I willscroll Facebook until it makes
me like want to disown an oldfriend or family member, and
it's usually about 35 secondsthese days.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
I just don't get on Facebook.
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
But So so you have this huge platform and I feel
like y'all have a reallyinteresting mix of I mean, it's
I think the tone holds up andthe voice is consistent, which
is really cool, and I don'tthink people realize how
difficult that is To keep aconsistent voice Throughout,

whether you're talking about,you know, a goofy tweet about a
mountain lion, or like seriousissues that have to do with
Interacting with the environmentand nature and things like that
Yeah, do you have a strategy forthat, or is it just sort of
like that's just the Sort of DNAof your office and the people
that you work with?

Speaker 2 (44:36):
I want to say it's both because, like they're The
hard line.
Okay, so like the snarkiness isvery true to like me and Smokey
and the people so I'm talkingabout people who volunteer on
the social media team.
There's me, so it's my primaryjob, but like all this content

and ideas and stuff They comefrom like my friends who like
work with us in the office.
So me and Smokey have thissnarky, sarcastic attitude and
then, like Micah and Darren arelike dad, so they always have a
great dad joke in the cannon,and then Kelly is like Really
punny, you know things like that.
So it is kind of hardline builtinto the DNA.

But like to be funny with people, you have to like actually
invest into people because humoris, humor is intimate and I
don't think that, like I, peoplearen't comfortable like being
friendly, then alone, like beingFriends, like we're not very
good at being friends withpeople because it takes a lot of

attention, but if you want tobe funny you have to pay
So anyway, i'm not friends withthese people because that's my
goal is to like use them oranything like that.
That's ridiculous.
But like it took a year or soto like just become friends and
like get to know the people thatyou're around, to understand

like, oh, this is why Micahthinks that's funny, and then I
can adjust My thought and belike that actually is funny, you
know, kind of a thing, becauseif you just trust like your own
taste over and over again, it'slike that's not useful to
Like nobody does that literallynobody.
Nobody does that.
Um, probably the funniestpeople in the world don't do
But um, yeah, it takes like ittakes some friendship, like

genuine, let's get to know eachother time and in this
environment You can't do thatLike we we're leaving for a
division meeting like tomorrow,where we're just gonna hang out
together for a few days, um,talk about projects.
But and then the second thing isis that like understanding that
when I cross the line, or if wedo cross the line on the other

side, is that like wildlife Uh,can be harmed and our people can
be harmed and nobody wants thatresponsibility?
So that's another hard line.
So there's like two of them,but in the bounds It's a fair
game, like it's fun kind of athing.
Um, like soccer without the Outof bounds would be really

boring and chaotic and nobodywould play it.
But like the boundaries areactually very good, i think, for
building voices and like doingwhat we're doing.
Um, so like they should a berespected, but like not feared.
Yeah, they're there For reasonsyou know yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Yeah no, and that's that is.
I love the way you say that,that the boundaries are there.
I I like your soccer analogy.
That's really, that's reallyinteresting.
It's like without theboundaries It becomes Chaotic
and it becomes something that itshouldn't be right in a lot of
Yeah, yeah um, but then with it,with it within that, you have
like all this, all this freedomto do fun stuff and to Yes.

so a question I have and aquestion that that Comes up to
me, because I I do some of thiskind of communication through
the podcast and my social mediastuff and and like I'm trying to
figure out the right way to askthis because, like there's, i
have like an idea in my brainand I'm like I don't know, this
is something that I worry abouta lot And I think you kind of

addressed it already, talkingabout like the boundary of like
if you say the wrong thing,someone could take something
wrong and get hurt or whateverelse.
right, like you know you'retalking about not just like a
lot of my stuff, is I yell aboutthese dumb plant hacks where
they put like banana?

Speaker 2 (48:31):
peels in water.
I get so angry.
I get so angry, sarah, keepdoing those Like it is, like
those are good content.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
It's almost like my spiritual discipline at this
point of like I have to watchthis crap And then.
But like, if someone putsbanana water in something, like
they're not going to get hurt,right, like the stakes are low.
Like do you have, i guess, therelationship, do you have the
trust with your audience that ifyou're like no really guys,
like this is a big deal, likethis is something you really

need to think about, like doesyour audience respond well to
Or are they like, get back tothe jokes.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
I okay, So I think it's.
At first it was like get backto the jokes, but like being
willing to be like I'm going totake an L on this TikTok and I'm
going to take an L on thistweet because it's important,
Like kind of thing.
And like being consistent,being like I don't care if this
is popular or not, Wear a lifejacket, Like or like we don't

care if this tweet doesn't goviral or not, Like don't pick up
a font or things like that, andjust being very consistently
hardline on the on that thing.
And then also the snarkiness inour tone kind of built is built
in to that a little bit.
Nobody is listening to thesteel bat, Just like find your

own thing to do, but but it'slike the snarkiness kind of
helps us too, because it is likeserious And people, but also
it's very southern.

Speaker 1 (50:01):

Speaker 2 (50:01):
It's like it's Southern, like we can, we you
can get, you can politely get onto people here, like kind of a
thing You know here in Texas.
It's like it's just how we talkto people And I think everyone
else, like regionally, getsconfused in it, like are you
being nice, are you being rude?
It's like no, i'm being neither, but I am being direct, yeah,

I'm trying to cut it out kind ofthing.
So it's it's a lot of that,which is how, like the people
that I grew up around and that Iwork with, they're all like
They communicate that way.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
Like You know, that's interesting And that's I don't
know, that I've, i've, i'venoticed it.
I don't know if I've thoughtabout it in those terms, but
like, when you post somethinglike, and when I've seen stuff
come up on your page, that'slike, you know, again still
snarky, still funny, but it'slike, no, really, this is a big
Like I take it in those termsof Yeah.
This is a genuine correctionthat you're making.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Yeah, because, again, i grew up in Texas like I'm a
Southern kid too, And it's likeI hear it.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
I hear it.
That's really interesting And Ithink that's that is definitely
going to be something with thereach you have that some people
are not going to pick up on.
That's really fascinating to me.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
Yes, and you'd be surprised about the people who,
like, don't pick up on it,because every single time, like
you, can almost tell that it isa linguistics situation that
they're not understanding.
but like our following, who ismostly from the area, because
that's how this algorithm workswill like almost correct them

for me and be like no, this isOklahoma, like or like this is
So we tweeted that we don'thave any moonfish and it
confused the crap out of people,cause I'm like we don't have an
Like yes, i meant we as inOklahoma, not in the world.

And people were like moonfishesare real And I'm like that's not
what I said.
That is it.
Yeah, like this was an afterlunch tweet.
This was not a piece of content, this is just a geek Twitter
But okay, yeah, but, and itbecame a problem because so many
people like didn't understandregional speak, basically, so
that we run into that, but westay married to Oklahoma And

that makes sense to be likewe'll bring it back around
because it's easier to do thatway.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Well, and that's interesting too, Cause you kind
of have to right, Cause you arespecifically the Oklahoma
department of wildlife right.
That is your job, that is youridentity, that's what you do.
You are there first andforemost for people interacting
with wildlife in Oklahoma.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
Yes, exactly, it's like go bother Texas parks a
while, like you know kind of athing, but it's like.
But it does like protect usfrom a lot of again.
Soccer is a terrible gamewithout the boundaries And it's
also dangerous, like we can'tget into all that, like I don't

have again.
That's a very Southern way Andit's like I don't have time to
get into all that.
But it's off goal, it's offmission, it's off.
If it's off, it's off Andthere's.
I'm not going to break my backtrying to go into a frontier
that isn't like mine to have.
So it's cool, have yourmoonfish.

We have no ocean here.
That's really interesting.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
So I've, as we I just looked at the time and this has
gone fast because I'm reallyenjoying talking to you I've got
a couple of just questions aswe start to wrap up.
Do you have a favorite nationalpark?

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Oh man, i.
Is it a Grand Canyon NationalPark?
Yeah, okay, i really reallylove, i love the desert.
I am a lizard person.
I can't.
I don't know what it is, ithink it's probably being Latino
Just just like the heat I'mokay with.
Second, it gets cold.
I start struggling.

You know, i do a lot of coldsports.
I think that's part of it.
For me is that like it'sextreme when I walk outside,
that's when it starts, that'swhen the sport starts.
I also love like the Rocky.
I love the Rockies.
I'm in there like once a year.
I love Longs Peak, which is theonly 14er in the Rockies.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
Oh, wow, okay.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Yes, and you can get on it without like going through
the national park like entrance.
It's not the formal entrance.
It's like a trail entrance.
It's really great climbing, SoI really like Longs Peak, but
maybe not as a park.
Grand Canyon as climbing LongsPeak.

So one of both The Rockies geta little full, but you know.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
Since this is a plant podcast, do you have a favorite

Speaker 2 (55:00):
I think it's big blue stem grass.
I like it.
It's all in our flower bed.
I like that.
It gets orange in the fall andwinter And it's like the grass
that I associate with being home.
It's like the plant that Ithink about when I think of
It's the color that I thinkabout.

I like it was all over ourwedding and stuff like that.
My husband is in WesternOklahoma and there's like big
farmers and ranchers Andwhenever I think about like
going home and being in thatpart of the country, like
feeling really like yes, this iswhere my people are at, it's
just big grass, it's like flatorange grass as far as you can

So I really think it's big bluestem.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
Okay, that's really cool.
I actually really identifypretty strongly with that,
because up here in my part ofTexas it's short grass, prairie
medium grass prairie.
So like yeah, it's very, likeyou said, kind of place setting.
Yeah, it feels like home.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
The prairie is dope.
Nobody gives it any love, butit's gorgeous and underrated.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
And I love the prairie yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Big skies and, you know, short grasses as far as
you can see.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Paradox Yeah, oh yeah .

Speaker 1 (56:16):
Oh yeah, oh man, this is an aside, but the most
popular TikTok I've had in likea long time was we were in New
Mexico, we'd gone to Carlsbadand there's the desert botanical
garden out there And they dozoo.
It's really pretty.
It's beautiful, but they have alittle like enclosure with

prairie dogs and there's like arock squirrel that comes out of
the hole And I'm not a play, i'mlike I'm not an animal guy.
So I see this squirrel and I'mlike are you lost?

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Like what are you doing here?

Speaker 1 (56:49):
And like that has been consistent, for whatever
reason, that like hit a nerve.
Everyone was like look at thefunny squirrel.
I don't know And I don't knowif you've ever seen them.
They have very human ears.
Like it's a little upsettingactually.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
Yeah, i think it's kind of gross, but I'm sorry,
i'm sorry, i don't think thatshould be allowed.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
It's like uncanny valley, but a squirrel.

Speaker 2 (57:13):

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Oh, that's see that uncanny squirrels is gonna have
to go in this episode title.
So the last question.
this is something that I askall of my guests.
If you know, we've talked abouta lot of great stuff, And if
there was one thing, if you hada piece of advice about life or
careers or whatever nature thatyou wanted to like leave with

our listeners, what would thatbe?
What's the one thing you'd wantto send home with people?

Speaker 2 (57:45):
And it's probably like what I'm working on in
myself in the biggest across.
All of it now is that you'regonna be okay.
Like you're gonna be okay.
Like this isn't my first choice, but I got like a lot of
rejection before I got here.
I was in aiming for this, itjust happened and it's okay.

And whatever happens to meafter this, it'll be okay
Personally, professionally, likeit'll be okay.
And if you just give yourselfthe grace to calm down for a
second, you can get throughanything and you can do anything
You just gotta like bet onyourself that it'll be okay.

And you got it because you'renot stupid.
So like, yeah, you got this.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
No, that's great advice.
That's great advice.
I love that.
I love that, Sarah.
that was so much fun.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
I got.
That was great.
Thank you for having me.
I really enjoyed that.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
Where all can people find you?

Speaker 2 (58:45):
I'm on.
Okay, so I'm on Twitter, but,fair warning, like my personal
Twitter is my personal Twitter,so it's whatever.
Sure, don't look for likereally smart musings on there.
I hope you like PrincessDiaries, but hey, it's at.
Hey, i'm SarahH-E-Y-A-I-M-S-A-R-A-H.

And then Instagram I'm the same.
And then TikTok, that's for mein my scrolling.
And then Facebook I'm not there, don't.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
Don't work for you there.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
Don't let me, don't make me log in there, don't make
me go.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Well, that's awesome And I'll post all that as well
as a link to the Oklahomawildlife stuff in the show notes
But that was awesome.
Thank you so much.
That was a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Y'all, like Sarah said, you're gonna be okay, no
matter what happens, you'regonna find a way to be okay.
I believe in you, sarahbelieves in you And I hope you
believe in yourself.
Wasn't that such a greatepisode?
She's so much fun, soknowledgeable and just, i think,
one of again.
I'm gonna say it again Sarah,you are one of the funniest
people on the internet.
Thanks so much for listening.
Thanks for being a part ofPlantHropology.

If you want, go follow me onsocial media.
Thanks again to the Texas TechDepartment of Plant and Social
Thanks to the PodFix Network,and if you're in the market for
a book for yourself or for aloved one, go check out Plants
to the Rescue, available forpre-order now and everywhere
else on July 11th 2023.

It would mean the world to me.
You know I love you.
Thanks for listening.
Keep being kind to one another.
If you have not been kind toone another to date, this is a
great time to give that a shot.
It's a good thing to do.
Keep being really cool plantpeople and I will talk to you
very soon.
Thank you for that presentation.
Thanks so much again to thePodFix Network.

Hope you liked the program.
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