September 21, 2025 • 36 mins
First up, a bit of a warning on this one. This episode deals with the loss of a child. There's tears, there's (surprisingly) a lot of laughs - and there's actually a positive message out of the whole thing. It's a beautiful episode - but I wanted to give you a heads-up, so it didn't come out of the blue and trigger something for you. 🤗
When the Podvan rolled up to the Cancer Council's annual Relay for Life, I didn't know who I'd meet there. I couldn't have imagined I’d sit down with Lou and Rob, the proud parents of a champion - who I'd actually met a few years ago.
Their son, Spencer, was a 10 year old entrepreneur that launched "Spins Bins," a wheelie bin cleaning empire.
In the episode, Lou and Rob share their story about finding laughter and light in the darkest of times, what keeps them going, (one minute at a time) and the incredible community that has rallied around them.
Please leave a comment and rate the podcast if you enjoy the episode - it really does help!
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Rabs.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey there, thanks for jumping into listen to this episode.
I just want to put a quick note on the start of this one because
I don't know if you read the show notes and I would hate for
you to just jump into this one without knowing what was coming.
So just a little bit of a heads up, this episode deals with the
loss of a child. It's really sad.
There's tears. There's surprisingly a lot of
(00:20):
laughter through this one as well though, and a really
positive message that does come out of the whole thing as well.
It's a beautiful episode, but I wanted to give you a heads up
just in case. I don't know what's going on in
your life at the moment. I don't want this to trigger
something for you. So that said, enjoy this tale of
Spencer with Rabbit. I'm Rabbit.
(00:44):
I record this podcast inside a cute little retro caravan from
1967 that I've tore around all over the place podcast with
Robbie. I brought the pod van along to
the Cancer Council's Relay for Life at Mingara.
And when I come along to something like this, I know it's
going to be possibly quite an emotional day of ups and downs.
(01:05):
They'll always be laughs, but a lot of people are here for a
reason. And so I don't know who I'm
going to talk to. I don't know what stories I'm
going to get. It's very hard to prepare for
something like this. And then as I'm setting up, Lou
and Rob pop up at the door, likeliterally, Lou goes, hey, and
I'm gonna have to change my pants.
(01:25):
Sure. And Lou says, remember, spins
bins. He's like, course I do.
Spencer is business of washing wheelie bins.
And then what did you say? We lost him in July to cancer.
I'm so sorry, you guys. And you've heard that a million
times from so many people. Yeah.
(01:47):
What I just couldn't get over after our first little chat.
And then you guys went away to get some water, and then you've
come back. And in that time, I was just
like, how? How are you standing there
smiling and having laughs with me through that conversation?
We get that a lot. Yeah, but I remember the good
times, the light you gave Spencewhen you promoted his business.
By seeing you, it brought back the good memories.
There's been a lot of bad in thelast year with the journey,
(02:09):
watching him deteriorate and getsick.
It's nice to be able to go back and remember the time he was on
the radio with you and the boy he was back then when he was
healthy, making some money. From the first time he met you
actually met you at the Maccas in Gosford on the radio and you
gave Louise and him a trip to Aurora store.
Oh, on the big wheelspin thing. Well, nice.
Gospel. We were doing a thing where you
(02:31):
would win a trip, you'd leave right from there and you didn't
know where you were going to go until.
We actually won the romantic getaway and Spencer saw there
was a couple opposite us and he said we don't need a romantic
getaway mum, let's switch with them.
I don't care what we get as longas we get to go away.
So, yeah, even back then, he waswho he was.
He was just the most generous kid.
And he just did that off his ownback.
(02:51):
I don't, you know, someone else can benefit from that.
So yeah. The next time we heard from him,
he called in on the radio show and it was about his business.
A lady had called in to say she'd met an entrepreneur who
was cleaning Willie Beans. And then you guys got involved
and then you made-up a Jingle for him.
And business sounds like something I'd do.
Yeah, I don't have the greatest memory, but I do remember him.
(03:13):
Business boomed. He bought bought a laptop, an
iPad, a mountain bike. Yeah, he made thousands.
We had to buy a trailer. He employed 2 of his friends to
work for. It and the business was washing
people's wheelie bins. They get all stinky.
Yeah. Ain't nobody washing their
wheelie bin. No.
And so would he go knock on doors.
No, they would just contact us. Purely through the socials.
(03:34):
And people heard him on the radio too, yeah.
And would you go around with thetrailer and pick up the bins?
Yes, we pick up the bins, bring them back to our place, would
you? Our water, our electricity.
With the Gurney, people always leave little bits and pieces
still at the bottom of their bins.
It didn't always get 100% emptied right.
So I've been with stink of everybody else and stuff.
But I worked for a chemical company at the time, so I had
good access to good chemicals, cleaning and sanitizing.
(03:56):
So he cleaned, sanitized. He'd put different markers on
them so he knew which ones were which to give back to the right
place, and then we check him back in the in the trailer and
take him back again. No brilliant idea.
We did have to start charging him electricity and water and
petrol and you know. What that teaches him as well as
the business. Yeah, I think it's $5 for every
clean he. Had to give back.
His give to us. 5 from every clean.
(04:16):
What was he charging? It's 50 bucks for three bins.
Yeah, really. But he still made probably,
what, $8000? Oh yeah, baby.
I was thinking it was like it'd be like a $5 charge or
something. No 50 bucks.
You never the three bins you take.
And it took a long time. I was out there with him that
yeah, if it wasn't good enough, you'd do it again.
Has anyone taken the business over?
(04:37):
Has anyone done a spin off? Someone has done a spin off.
Of course they would. It's.
A brilliant idea. Yeah, it is a brilliant.
It's. An young girl, probably.
Yeah, and I'm surprised more people haven't even.
I'm tempted to. Yeah, I think.
We I guess to do it for. Us.
I was gonna say when you could, you said your bin was all
stinky. Is this like the Carpenter whose
doors hanging off its hinges at home?
Yeah, you had the stinky bins because you would have had to
(04:58):
have paid him 50 bucks to do your bet and he would have
charged as well. Yeah, absolutely.
Oh, what a champ. So I have met him in my mind.
I have a picture of. Yeah, that's great.
Of course you're going to have apicture to show me just before I
see it. Do you know the apparently kid?
He look him up online just like,look, I reckon if you just
(05:19):
Google, apparently kid, he's at a carnival, a State Fair kind of
thing in the States. And a reporter goes up to him.
How was your day? And he says apparently all the
time he's just like, well, I went on the roller coaster and
apparently I don't like them. And apparently my mom and dad
said and he's just apparently, apparently found little
redheaded dude. Spencer's a Ranger, yeah.
(05:42):
Yeah, that's. Oh, yeah.
OK, I'm looking at the photo nowof Spence and yeah, when you
look at the apparently kid, he'slike a mini version.
He's coming through OK. So that is why I always thought
of him like that. I must have seen it at the time.
2 awesome things from the Internet.
Him and the dog that goes the Maple kind.
(06:02):
Do you know that one? Find that one as well guys.
Somebody. It's a guide.
We'll have a look at it. Look up dog, the Maple kind.
But anyway, guys, what happened?Spence complained of a sore knee
last April. 12 months ago. Thought he was being a bit of a
drama queen. He's a soccer player only, so he
played a lot of soccer, played abit of rugby union, yeah, water
(06:23):
polo, rode his bike, filled all those sorts of things.
That you do and last year was a bit of a washout because of all
the rain when the sun shine I said get out there and play I
don't care like your knee you'refine suck it up yeah so I send
them out they were just facing Yeah.
And it just didn't get better. So we went to the physio a
couple of times and she's just was a little bit worried.
We did a scan and they throw a tumor in his leg.
They thought osteosarcoma. And I'm like, right, they can
(06:44):
handle that. What's that?
It's a cancer that grows in the bone, very common with children.
OK, So I took him to the kids hospital and he had a bit of a
cough, so they did a chest X-rayand they said I'm really sorry.
We found spots in his lungs. And I was like, OK, I can handle
tumor in his leg, spots in his lungs.
We've got this. Then they did a full body scan
and found the primary tumour wrapped around his spine.
(07:05):
So it was wrapped around the nerves in his spine.
We didn't get a diagnosis for six weeks because of how rare it
is. When they found out it was a
malignant nerve sheath tumour, they've never been a case that
anyone survived. Yeah, there's very little
research, just not enough cases.Our oncologist had never heard
of it and neither had rare cancers.
Australia after 30 years, the guy said to us.
(07:26):
So we've opened the book at RareCancers on it and.
We've contacted people in America, they've never heard of
it. They heard of a kind of thing
like it that So who? Told you about it that gave you
that name. And I've just found it so
incredible that, you know, before April last year, you had
never heard of that term. Yeah, with things in it a lot.
In the last year, of course, yeah, Look, they had.
(07:47):
They kept dissecting it and saidwe're just trying to rule out
what it's not. And they kept saying no, it's
still not this. We can't work it out.
And then I got a post it note with the name on it and said
that's what it is. It's taken them six weeks.
All we can tell you at the moment is no treatment in the
world has ever worked. So we have to treat him as an
adult and give him adult doses of chemo.
(08:11):
Whatever we could throw at it, we threw at it.
But. Was there ever any moment where
you thought, oh, here we go, it's working?
Rob always had. I never thought that we would
get to this point. I think I always believed that
we would would be able to get through this.
Yeah, I don't. And I know Louise never thought
that. I don't know she would, would
have wanted dealt hope for that.And she always thought, yeah,
(08:32):
we'll give this treatment. We're going to try and we'll
see. But I think the difference with
us was that Lou spent every day,24 hours a day with Spence, with
the doctors in the hospitals, got to hear all the
conversations, things like that.Oh, he's stayed at home a lot
more to look after our other sonand go to work as well.
So I didn't get that sort of. I wasn't around that kind of
(08:54):
thing all the time. I knew it was.
Bad Louis. Yeah, I think Lou knew it was
bad, but. You're not having all of the
information. I mean, you're hearing what
Lou's telling you, but you don'thave all the information.
So in your mind, you're still. Yeah, but.
Yeah, and as much as like Louiseknew and much as she did tell
me, I know she had that much going on in her head and people
telling her things and people coming to talk to.
(09:14):
And her phone doesn't still to this day doesn't stop.
She puts it down for 10 minutes.There's 100 messages on all the
different various ways of getting a message to someone so.
On what? Why?
On Instagram, on Facebook, on normal text messages and what?
The messaging you, yeah. I've made quite a beautiful
group of friends through other cancer kids, so we've got a big
(09:34):
group that we are very close and.
So what are all these messages now?
Do you know what it's actually success stories about their
kids. One went back to AFL little
athletics last night, he ran like a 200 meter.
The other one started driving and they're very.
How is that for you though? Well that's what they say.
We don't want to show you this and I would never wish our
(09:57):
situation upon anyone. So I it kills me and I'm so
jealous that people have their kids right now.
But I also am grateful they havethe kids.
We want to hear their stories, too.
We want to. We're very nice to know them
driving, going. To get better.
Yeah. Because like I said, we don't
want anyone to have to feel likewe do or, or to to go through
(10:18):
this. But as much as it hurts, it
still also makes your heart warmto to know that these kids are
getting better. And that they love Spence and.
They, and it was because of Spence.
And I think we did a a fundraiser for Spence not long
ago, maybe six months ago, 10 months ago, and 1500 people
showed up to his fundraiser. And then his funeral, We had
(10:40):
over 1000 people show up at his funeral.
And I said at the time that people leave legacies behind,
and that was Spencer's legacies,those people, how much he was
loved and and cared for. But I think, yeah, because
Spencer was the kid he is. That's why we got so many people
that message us all the time. And unfortunately for me, they
don't have my number. They have Louise's.
So unfortunately with her, she'sthe one that gets all the
(11:01):
messages and has to reply. All and I love it.
I love it. And you.
You do. Yeah.
Because I totally get when you said you're jealous.
Yeah, Yeah, of course you are. Yeah, and you'd have because I
saw you go from zero to 100 as far as emotions go, just when
we're talking out there having alaugh 2 seconds into as soon as
we start talking about it. And if we'd, well, it would have
(11:24):
been a very different conversation this time a year
ago anyway. But ever since I've come off
these anxiety meds that I was onfor seven years, I couldn't cry
for seven years. And now I can.
And you? Need to cry?
You need to let it out. It's funny, I'm not used to it.
So it feels, it actually feels really weird for me.
We actually came to the Relay for Life last year.
(11:45):
I managed to wangle a gate pass from the hospital.
We came up to surprise, one of Spencer's best friends spent did
a lap in his wheelchair and I said to him, this time next year
we're going to come and we're going to walk for you beating
this. And do you know what?
I can't think of it as that He'slost his fight.
I still think that he's beaten it because we've got research,
(12:08):
we've got biopsies in place thatthey can research, like things
like that. He's had to have made a
difference. Something really.
That's the one. The one good thing that's come
of this is that he can still help with those those things
that are left behind that they can test.
And I can feel him today, his best friends here, our best,
like our families are all here. It's he's still here with us.
(12:42):
He never lost his sense of humour with anything.
No, and he'd also be really grateful that he's not here
because he'd hate just Lap. Lamps and he he was a white
skinned redhead, so the sun, he would have been absolutely
killed in the sun right now. Thank you for giving it a laugh.
Nothing's right. That's my life.
(13:02):
I'm just, you'd have ohh, man, so many ups and downs.
Yeah, yeah. What July did you say?
Yeah. July 22nd, 7 we're.
Only talking in a couple of months. 1500 hours.
On Tuesday be 9 weeks. It feels like a lifetime, but it
also feels like it was yesterday, yeah.
(13:22):
And I don't know about often, but I, it do seem to sort of
hear about people that have a long, long illness, long fight
over many, many years. And and then, you know, people
can say afterwards, well, they're in a better place now.
They were hurting for so long and that kind of thing.
This was so fast. Yeah, yeah, it was.
I mean, we went from three months ago.
(13:43):
They had the scan and I was awayfrom work, so I go away every
second week. So Louise took him.
And normally they hang around for the results afterwards in
the clinic, but clique's very busy, so sometimes takes a long
time to get them in to see them.But Lou said to the doctors
like, we're just going to go home after the scan.
Spencer's sort of uncomfortable,he's in a bit of pain, so we're
going to go straight home. Take your time, look at it
properly, and then call me later.
And it goes about 3:00 in the afternoon.
(14:05):
I drove home from out West and Isent a message to our youngest
son to see if mum and mum and Spence were OK and he said no
Mum's crying in the bedroom and at that point I don't know how I
didn't get a speeding ticket because I must have been doing
A140150 down the freeway to get home.
Before I got in the house, Louise came out to see me and
told me that the cancer had unfortunately spread everywhere.
(14:29):
So from the, the, the main partswe already knew about, it had
gone through to his brain and he, I think it was his liver,
you know, gone through his hips.And they said we had weeks and I
should probably stop work and spend some time with them.
That was on Thursday. We spent the next week together
doing things in and around the house and Spence doing as much
as he could. He was kind of bedridden a lot
at that point, but still talking, still eating.
(14:53):
Then he got to the following weekend and he just just went to
sleep. He's still alive.
He was, he was alive, but he just went to sleep, stopped
eating, stopped drinking. He was taking a lot of
medication at the same time and then said the palliative care
team came in and had to give hima liquid version of the tablets
he was taking. I asked the nurse, in your
professional opinion, they've told us weeks, you do this every
(15:15):
day. What do you think?
She said, I'm, I'm probably days.
And that was at three, 3:00 on the Monday afternoon.
Then he passed away the next morning at 7:30.
And so he didn't even last 15 hours.
But he did it his way. But.
He waited, didn't he? Yeah, that that morning I got
up, made a cup of tea, went had a chat to Spence.
Louise was laying in bed with him, just stroking his head and
(15:37):
giving him a scratch up and downthe arm and do it like that.
The Spence also had to be in touch to be smothered a lot.
So if you would have been able to say can you get off me
please? He would all so.
You'd say it, I said, do you want oh sorry, touching and you
went yes. It's like that moment Lou rolled
away to sort of face the ceiling, laying in bed, looked
at her phone. I went and sat down for a cup of
tea and he was still breathing, but he was short, sharp
(15:58):
breathing, but it was quite loud.
And as I sat down to have my cupof tea, I sat there and sort of
listened and thought to myself, I can't hear him anymore.
I can't hear it. And as I got up to go to the
bedroom, Lou would roll back andsaying the same thing or heard
the same thing. And she just said to me, I think
(16:19):
he's gone. He's gone and.
The two of you are there with him in the room.
Yeah, but he waited until I'd left the room at that point for
him, for that, that moment when he did leave us, nobody was
watching him or on him. He waited until we weren't
looking at him. I don't know.
A lot of people say that's what people sometimes do.
They wait for no one to be around.
(16:40):
But obviously we were going to be around, but not to be in his
face. If you like.
He did it his way. He did it, yeah.
Exactly his way. And yeah, that was I can't. 22nd
of July. I can't.
It was. I don't know how you're able to
talk. Have we just ruined your day
(17:00):
coming here by starting with this story?
I'm just. We've got last night.
No, I just, I don't. I don't know how you can talk.
Because of our other son, because of him, that's how we
can do it. And the feelings that have been
around us, I would never have survived.
No, and I can't, I can't say thank you enough to the people
(17:21):
that have been there for Lou when I've been at work or when
they've been stuck in the hospital all the time and the
the support that she has had. Yeah, because I just think, you
know, anyone, everyone listeningto this, did you know I've never
struggled to speak ever this much in my life?
(17:42):
Oh man, should've got back on the meds just for.
Today I've got some we've. Got some Now I know your secret.
No, I, you know, and I've done I've done tons of talking to
people like you through my entire career in in media and
there's always just something, something in me that's been able
to just go, I'm doing my job here.
(18:04):
I've got to be able to keep thisthing moving, especially with
live radio and things like it's just a block that goes in the
brain and clearly that's gone. I just what I was going to say
is that anyone and everyone listening to this, especially if
they have kids, you instantly put yourself, well, I do put
myself into your position and I just go.
I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to speak to anyone probably for
(18:26):
years is what I think. But I haven't been in the
situation I've got and I never want to be.
Tell us about because you do hear about Cancer Council and
these kind of groups, even canteen for the kids, things
like that and how much, how important they are and how much
they help. Well, the day after we were
(18:47):
diagnosed, Central Coast kids inneed had called me up at 7:00 AM
in the morning. So I sent them an e-mail Friday
night to say, look, we're, we don't know what we're dealing
with. I think it's cancer.
And they called me at 7:00 AM onthe Saturday morning.
Is that Rhonda? Lorraine, Rhonda and Lorraine.
Amazing ladies. They are incredible.
Yeah. I am covered in goosebumps now,
(19:08):
just the fact that you said Central Coast kids in need,
because one of the podcasts thatI produce beyond the tube fee
hosts that she's got a son who'sfed through a tube.
OK, So it's all about tube feeding this this whole podcast
and Oh my God, it's taken off because in their world there's
just no information. When Ezra got diagnosed, they
(19:29):
couldn't find out enough about it.
And so why she wanted to start the podcast was to be that thing
for people. Now she's a bunch of episodes
in. It's becoming the thing.
And we have the dream where a doctor, when telling someone
baby is going to be fed through a tube.
Here's some pamphlets and there's a podcast that you need
to listen to, you know, and, andshe talks to experts.
(19:51):
She talks to all sorts. And one of the episodes she did
with Laws and Rhonda, that was where I found out all about the
things that they do. Yeah.
You know, someone contacts them and goes, oh, these are the
medications and things that, yeah, my child's going to need.
And they'll just set up an account.
Absolutely. Yeah, the chemist.
Yeah. And they just take care of all
the medication. Anything you need them to do.
(20:12):
Anything. They took care of the run of
McDonald House bills that we would get run of.
McDonald House is an amazing charity as well, but it still
costs if you want to stay there.So that's what they used for us.
Right. So kissing me just said give us
all your bills and they offer topay tolls for the road, for the
motorways as well as fuel bills.Or if you have to stay in a
hotel, they'll pay for hotel cost as well and then
(20:33):
medications. And they just say you got to
sell your bills. They said just send us your
bills and we got told off. Loz and Rhonda actually had a go
at our because we didn't send them.
I was going to say as you, how do you feel when you're doing
you go, I'm not just going to keep.
Well, we felt bad to send them anything.
They were like, they were already doing this thing for us
anyway, which is amazing. Yeah, we're going to have to
make them do any more. And then they just told us all I
(20:54):
said, why haven't you sent us these?
They're like, oh, sorry. Are they doing a Kara lap?
I was going to say what's happening right now.
There's a whole bunch of people lined up along the edge of the
track. They just messaged me and said
the Kara lap is starting. What's that mean?
Are you meant to be out there? What's going on?
Thank God. Yeah.
Anybody wearing Farrah sashes? Yes.
How about you get out there and do your right and then swing
(21:15):
that cast here. And we'll wrap this up right
Once you've done your right, your tears far out, man.
And you tell me about the Kara lap and what it all means and
what that's about when you get back.
All right. Thanks.
No worries, run, you need to couch up.
Have you been to Guandalen Bowling Club?
They're right there on the shores of Lake Macquarie.
They do delicious meals upstairsin the Foreshore Bistro and
Cafe, which is run by the Dish Catering Group, so you know it's
(21:37):
good stuff and you can dine out on the balcony looking out over
the lake. It is beautiful.
They got the cute little foreshore kiosk for a coffee and
snacks right by the jetty. The entertainment's top notch.
They got Friday night seafood raffles and Sunday sessions with
live music in the beer garden. You wanna find out what's
happening at the club, Check outtheir Facebook page or visit
(21:58):
gwandalanbowlingclub.com dot AU King, Kumper Mitre Chan have
been big supporters of the Pod Dan podcast right from the start
and you get all the stuff from them that you'd expect to You
get plants, you get all the Weber stuff, you get all the
steel gear, the amazing principal kitchens, but it's the
stuff that you don't expect like.
That a customer come in with 46,000 colour sample swatches
(22:20):
just begin colour for her kitchen cupboards.
I adrenaled down to 4 colours for her.
And that took him out an hour and a half.
She got very emotional because she was so inundated with
colours. Towards the end, she was kind of
picking up the colours again. I said no, stop.
I've seen photos, seen videos. Her husband's come in and give
me a big hug, saying thank you so much because you're getting
very emotional about it. And she's super happy.
That's what she get. And the mighty helpful King
(22:42):
Kumble, mine again with Robin, Lou and Rob are back in.
They've just gone and done theircarer's lap.
Can you explain what that is? I think it's lap to honour
carers and survivors of cancer. We recognized a lot of carers,
(23:02):
yeah, but we actually may have cheated that a little bit.
We just did a carers, probably 10 meters and just enjoyed the
round of applause. Listen, I even knew what was
happening and I didn't pick up on us.
Like when you went walking past me with everyone else, I
thought, how did you get around that?
You must have run an entire. Lab to catch up to them.
Yeah, he has. Your straight up fleets
absolutely and you are. You are at home on an athletics
(23:24):
track clearly. I wish yes snuck in there and
just joined in as everyone. Should we just join in here?
Yeah, he looks good. So can you explain, obviously we
know what survivors is. These are people who've been
through it and they are what, I guess in remission now or is
that what? Yeah, do you know?
Remission. Some people are completely
clear. Yeah, OK.
Yeah. And then everyone with a care is
(23:46):
sash. Does that mean they lost someone
or they're? Currently, whether they're
currently caring or have cared for someone.
And it doesn't always need to bejust parents, aunts, uncles,
friends, anybody who's been there to help throughout that
whole process of the sickness. Again, whether they were a
survivor and you've cared for them through their journey
they've been through or if you have lost someone like we did,
Louise's sister, mum, dad, they were all there.
(24:08):
They gave care as well. They care for Spence.
Most people could probably wear a care as sash because they've
all given care at some point to these be.
Probably everyone here. Everyone under our tent could be
given a carers. They've cared for us.
Yeah, more than they would ever know.
So I was saying before when you guys went out and did your 10m
(24:29):
walk. Lap.
Lap sorry when you did your lap that's and I haven't had been
affected this way with emotions in quite a long time.
The track is just lined with people on both sides and the
applause just keeps going and going and going as everyone's
walking by got me again there because of the chat I just had
(24:49):
with you guys because I'm so used to this I'm struggling with
it. I looked at everyone walking in
a different way then I mean in the past sure I get it.
I know that obviously everyone there has been affected by
cancer in some way, but wow, youpeople, everyone walking there,
(25:13):
you've been through some stuff. And it doesn't matter if your
person's old, young, it's the same grief of losing someone or
even dealing with the diagnosis of cancer.
Like even hearing that, it just stops your entire world.
It doesn't matter what age you are, who you are.
How has life changed for you since this?
(25:34):
I'd love to say I appreciate life more.
I don't. I miss him and I wish I could go
back to this time last year and be willing.
He mounted a wheelchair. I wish I could hear his smile
and smell like I've got his aftershave on today so I can
smell him. But we don't.
(25:55):
We don't sweat the small stuff anymore.
I used to yell at my kids because they were 5 minutes late
at the door every morning or my God there's stuff on the floor
or whatever. But we don't sweat the small
stuff anymore. I don't stress about if the
washing's done or if we're 5 minutes late.
Life is different and life is hard and there's a lot of people
that are facing it. They're not as open as we are,
(26:16):
which is fine. Everyone's journey is their own.
But I, I would like to take fromthis that I can show other
people that you can lose child, but you can still carry on.
And you know a part of you dies when your child dies, but
there's still life, and you still have to live.
See, right now I've got Spencer's best friend waving out
(26:37):
the window. Give me the black shirt.
Yeah, and look what he's just done in the middle of you
talking. Yeah, just giving you a laugh.
Yeah, and that's what we do. And people must think I'm a bit
crazy because I, we do laugh a lot and we're very
inappropriate. Spencer is inappropriate as
well. Like that's how we've tackled
this. Yeah.
So there's no right or wrong. That's just do what you have to
(26:58):
do to survive. I interviewed a couple just
recently, Episode 199. She'd been diagnosed with cancer
so many times through her life, ever since a teenager, and would
beat it and then another one would pop up and then final one
came along and it was on her spine and behind her eye.
So two places. They just couldn't touch it,
couldn't do anything about it. And then the crazy twist in the
(27:21):
story as well. She's sitting there opposite me,
100% cancer free. Yeah.
So their thing, it's really thatepisode.
They're not preaching it in the slightest.
They're just sharing their story.
And I thought of them when you just said there's no right or
wrong way. So she was running a
(27:43):
hairdressing salon and none of her clients knew, had any idea
she would go. Oh, hang on, can you take over?
She need to pop out the back andgo and throw up.
Yeah, she's going through all ofher chemo and all of the stuff.
She didn't want that to be her thing.
And everyone always asks her, how you going?
How's it going to? She's a hairdresser.
So she got, she did her hair short.
(28:04):
She did her hair short and short, funky style because I'm a
hairdresser. No, it was covering the fact
that she was losing all of her hair and but she was sitting
opposite me, the longest flowinghair.
And yeah, when you say there's, there's no right way, some
people, you'll be out and talking to everybody and you'll
get that support and all that kind of thing.
(28:25):
And they went and visited Uncle Auntie, I think, was up on the
Gold Coast. As soon as they arrived there,
they looked at the two of them and went, wow, you guys look
amazing. And they eventually they found
out they'd switched to a carnivore diet.
So essentially all they eat is meat pretty much and eggs.
It's very, it's very much like Kino, but even like it's just
(28:47):
you just don't have any carbs, no carbs.
She was very, very unwell. And it was right at that time
when for anyone else who hasn't heard that episode and you're
curious about it, come have a listen.
They're not preaching it at all or anything.
I recorded with them on a Saturday and I'm like, you're
ruining my Saturday night because I've got plans for chips
and chocolate in front of the tally tonight now.
I'm just going to have a snake and a chicken breast.
(29:10):
Chewing on a tomahawk. But yeah, it, it, it all just
went all the cancer, she was going in for scans and things
and the doctor was like, what's going on?
She stopped all of her medication and yeah, it was
crazy, incredible, but it also just went to show that like with
Spence, when they looked and took them six weeks to go.
(29:32):
I don't know. We don't know what it is.
No one has all of the answers still with all of this
fundraising, with all of the research.
Yeah, and kids cancer is not as heavily researched and funded as
adult cancer. So we're still using adult
protocol in children. I guess the dream is with all of
this kind of stuff is that one day you get a diagnosis and it's
(29:57):
not actually that bad. It's like you've got cancer.
There was such and such. Take these pills twice a day.
Yeah, it'll clear up you. Just have to go to the doctor to
get your prescription for those pills.
You don't have to go to hospitalto spend days, yeah like to prod
and things like. That is the dream.
It's happened with so many otherthings with medicine.
Yeah. Over the years, yeah.
Yeah. You just hope through things
like this, the more research, the more they find out about it,
(30:20):
that one day there'll be something where they just go,
yeah, that's what's causing it. They're getting closer, it just
needs. Yeah.
Have you seen that? Have you?
Look, there's been a lot of different treatments that we
found out about. Yeah, we started immunotherapy
when the chemo and radiation didn't work.
There's a lot of advances, cyberknife, things like that in
(30:40):
America that they're trying. That's a different form of
radiation that just. Cyber knife, yeah.
I'm I'm sure. That one I mean, it's a little a
name for starters. I've got my new gamertag for
online. Fuck, I say it's like a fatty
ass thought of it. You make stuff up sometimes, but
I'm sure it's called cyber knifetreatment.
It's a form of radiation where it can just be directed straight
into, yeah, it's not out here yet because we don't have the
(31:02):
funding, but. Think of like everything you can
do with AI and it's like, yeah, cuz I'm right on the edge of all
the AI stuff and the updates andeverything AI are happening so
fast because you know who's working on it?
AI. So as it becomes more, you know,
self learning in medicine. The better it become.
(31:23):
The things that's think it's going to happen quick.
I hope so, I really do. And I hope that days like this.
Imagine not needing this correct.
They stop doing really late for life because you don't need to.
You get a diagnosis, you should take some pills.
Yeah, and we all do a survival app.
Every single person. Everyone does a survival app.
Everyone survives it like that would be the ultimate goal
(31:45):
because we've lost a lot of friends in the last 12 months.
We've met people and we've lost them.
Of course you go into that community, yeah.
Yeah, and we've got a little girl fighting now who is losing
her battle quite quickly. And we sent her a photo of us in
the sunshine and said we're walking for her today as well.
And she's just got a beautiful smile on her face.
And yeah, so if there's any reason to have to have gone on
(32:07):
this journey, I hope it's that we can make people aware.
Yeah, yeah. Do you have a final message for
anyone who's going through a really tough time right now?
And it doesn't have to be that their kids sick and cancer and
all that kind of thing. I mean, you guys have gone
through the worst over the last year.
(32:27):
I would say it's OK to accept help, to let people see you cry.
I have been tried to be very stoic in all of this.
I don't like to cry in front of people, but actually it's OK for
people to see that you're real and that you cry and that you're
not OK. Yeah.
That you're hurting. Yeah, and most of the time
you'll find those people are hurting right alongside you.
(32:48):
I know a lot of people have cried with us and said they
didn't want to show their emotions to us because we're the
ones who've lost our child, but they've just lost Spencer.
But to me, we've all lost someone who meant a huge deal to
us. So it doesn't matter how big or
small the loss, it's still an emotion.
You shouldn't have to hide it. Especially men, you are allowed
(33:11):
to cry and Rob's cried. We've allowed Baxter to cry our
other son. Like it's OK for people to cry
and be seen crying and also it'sOK to ask for help.
Yeah, and not Lucy. You just got a thing not to
sweat the small stuff. A lot of my customers who I've
got to know in my job, I travel and I'm a sailor.
So I see a lot of people since Spencer's passed away and the
(33:33):
first time I've seen them, they've always asked how we're
going. And I'm like, I'm fine, but tell
me what's going on in your life now.
Oh, nothing compared to you. And I was like, OK, the
difference is yes, there are differences.
However, give me your stories. Let me try and talk to you and
see if I can help you in any wayjust by listening.
If that's all it is, just don't keep anything bottled up.
Because they don't want to tell you about what's going on for
(33:55):
them, because it's nothing compared to what you've gone
through, but you actually want to talk to them can help.
The worst thing in their world? Yeah.
And then that's good for you. Like you want to be able to help
someone, It's. Nice to be able to have a
problem that someone tells you and you could be like.
Let's see what I can do to help.God I live for that.
I love it when someone tells me they've got a problem with their
phone. Someone just yesterday just go.
(34:18):
I can't film on my phone becausethe storage is all full and I'm
like, is it all photos and videos and say I've got tons
like I'm gonna change your life and it's just about backing it
up online and getting rid of theone.
I need help with that. God, because you don't need a
ball. So if you've got, what are you
using? Do you use Google Photos at all?
No. Or Apple.
(34:39):
Apple because he spends saying in my ear.
It was so embarrassing. Mum, I've tried to tell you a
million times. Seriously, if it if it's backed
up on the on the cloud, online freaking cloud, you can delete
it all from your phone you. Can't 'cause it might delete
from my life forever. Yeah, oh boy, and.
We've got hard drives as well, so there's three different
setups. Yeah, you've got backups.
No Free up the space on your phone.
(35:01):
Cannot. No.
Actually, yeah, I would say thatto anybody except you.
Please do not delete things off your phone because I don't want
to be you then a year from now. My son and now I've lost all the
photos on me. All because of rabbit.
Because the rabbit told me it's fine, the clouds got it.
The cloud ain't got nothing. Oh, you guys, thank you so much
(35:24):
for sharing your story. Thank you for having us.
Yeah, thank you very much. And I was saying to Lou last
night that I, I can't remember where I heard before I read it,
but there was a saying that juststuck with me.
And it just said, I love you more today than I did yesterday,
but not as much as I will tomorrow.
And I think, and that will just be the same every day of my
life. Tomorrow I'll love me more than
(35:45):
I did today. And it'll keep going, keep
going, keep going. And just today he's just, he's
never going to be forgotten herein any way, shape or form.
And not just by us, because obviously we're mum and dad, but
everybody that. Everyone that I remember and
forever. Everyone that he touched, so
many people, yeah. Yeah, he said.
I mean, I may remember him as the apparently kid.
(36:06):
The Paradise. I'm fine with that though, I'm
happy about that. As I go on through the years,
yeah, one day I'll say to someone, yeah.
Oh, there was this kid as benzo.He's so good.
He washed Wheelie Benz. He was on the news once.
He's like, apparently, you know,I'll just morph into one.
Yeah. We're OK with that, don't worry.
Guys, thank you so much for jumping in and.
(36:26):
Out Thank you very much appreciate.
It boy, I didn't see this coming, and nor did you.
We just saw the vent from our tent over there, so let's go so
hard to raps. And thank you so much for doing
that. Thank you.
Thank you podcast with Rabbit.
Hey there, thanks for jumping into listen to this episode.
I just want to put a quick note on the start of this one because
I don't know if you read the show notes and I would hate for
you to just jump into this one without knowing what was coming.
So just a little bit of a heads up, this episode deals with the
loss of a child. It's really sad.
There's tears. There's surprisingly a lot of
(00:20):
laughter through this one as well though, and a really
positive message that does come out of the whole thing as well.
It's a beautiful episode, but I wanted to give you a heads up
just in case. I don't know what's going on in
your life at the moment. I don't want this to trigger
something for you. So that said, enjoy this tale of
Spencer with Rabbit. I'm Rabbit.
(00:44):
I record this podcast inside a cute little retro caravan from
1967 that I've tore around all over the place podcast with
Robbie. I brought the pod van along to
the Cancer Council's Relay for Life at Mingara.
And when I come along to something like this, I know it's
going to be possibly quite an emotional day of ups and downs.
(01:05):
They'll always be laughs, but a lot of people are here for a
reason. And so I don't know who I'm
going to talk to. I don't know what stories I'm
going to get. It's very hard to prepare for
something like this. And then as I'm setting up, Lou
and Rob pop up at the door, likeliterally, Lou goes, hey, and
I'm gonna have to change my pants.
(01:25):
Sure. And Lou says, remember, spins
bins. He's like, course I do.
Spencer is business of washing wheelie bins.
And then what did you say? We lost him in July to cancer.
I'm so sorry, you guys. And you've heard that a million
times from so many people. Yeah.
(01:47):
What I just couldn't get over after our first little chat.
And then you guys went away to get some water, and then you've
come back. And in that time, I was just
like, how? How are you standing there
smiling and having laughs with me through that conversation?
We get that a lot. Yeah, but I remember the good
times, the light you gave Spencewhen you promoted his business.
By seeing you, it brought back the good memories.
There's been a lot of bad in thelast year with the journey,
(02:09):
watching him deteriorate and getsick.
It's nice to be able to go back and remember the time he was on
the radio with you and the boy he was back then when he was
healthy, making some money. From the first time he met you
actually met you at the Maccas in Gosford on the radio and you
gave Louise and him a trip to Aurora store.
Oh, on the big wheelspin thing. Well, nice.
Gospel. We were doing a thing where you
(02:31):
would win a trip, you'd leave right from there and you didn't
know where you were going to go until.
We actually won the romantic getaway and Spencer saw there
was a couple opposite us and he said we don't need a romantic
getaway mum, let's switch with them.
I don't care what we get as longas we get to go away.
So, yeah, even back then, he waswho he was.
He was just the most generous kid.
And he just did that off his ownback.
(02:51):
I don't, you know, someone else can benefit from that.
So yeah. The next time we heard from him,
he called in on the radio show and it was about his business.
A lady had called in to say she'd met an entrepreneur who
was cleaning Willie Beans. And then you guys got involved
and then you made-up a Jingle for him.
And business sounds like something I'd do.
Yeah, I don't have the greatest memory, but I do remember him.
(03:13):
Business boomed. He bought bought a laptop, an
iPad, a mountain bike. Yeah, he made thousands.
We had to buy a trailer. He employed 2 of his friends to
work for. It and the business was washing
people's wheelie bins. They get all stinky.
Yeah. Ain't nobody washing their
wheelie bin. No.
And so would he go knock on doors.
No, they would just contact us. Purely through the socials.
(03:34):
And people heard him on the radio too, yeah.
And would you go around with thetrailer and pick up the bins?
Yes, we pick up the bins, bring them back to our place, would
you? Our water, our electricity.
With the Gurney, people always leave little bits and pieces
still at the bottom of their bins.
It didn't always get 100% emptied right.
So I've been with stink of everybody else and stuff.
But I worked for a chemical company at the time, so I had
good access to good chemicals, cleaning and sanitizing.
(03:56):
So he cleaned, sanitized. He'd put different markers on
them so he knew which ones were which to give back to the right
place, and then we check him back in the in the trailer and
take him back again. No brilliant idea.
We did have to start charging him electricity and water and
petrol and you know. What that teaches him as well as
the business. Yeah, I think it's $5 for every
clean he. Had to give back.
His give to us. 5 from every clean.
(04:16):
What was he charging? It's 50 bucks for three bins.
Yeah, really. But he still made probably,
what, $8000? Oh yeah, baby.
I was thinking it was like it'd be like a $5 charge or
something. No 50 bucks.
You never the three bins you take.
And it took a long time. I was out there with him that
yeah, if it wasn't good enough, you'd do it again.
Has anyone taken the business over?
(04:37):
Has anyone done a spin off? Someone has done a spin off.
Of course they would. It's.
A brilliant idea. Yeah, it is a brilliant.
It's. An young girl, probably.
Yeah, and I'm surprised more people haven't even.
I'm tempted to. Yeah, I think.
We I guess to do it for. Us.
I was gonna say when you could, you said your bin was all
stinky. Is this like the Carpenter whose
doors hanging off its hinges at home?
Yeah, you had the stinky bins because you would have had to
(04:58):
have paid him 50 bucks to do your bet and he would have
charged as well. Yeah, absolutely.
Oh, what a champ. So I have met him in my mind.
I have a picture of. Yeah, that's great.
Of course you're going to have apicture to show me just before I
see it. Do you know the apparently kid?
He look him up online just like,look, I reckon if you just
(05:19):
Google, apparently kid, he's at a carnival, a State Fair kind of
thing in the States. And a reporter goes up to him.
How was your day? And he says apparently all the
time he's just like, well, I went on the roller coaster and
apparently I don't like them. And apparently my mom and dad
said and he's just apparently, apparently found little
redheaded dude. Spencer's a Ranger, yeah.
(05:42):
Yeah, that's. Oh, yeah.
OK, I'm looking at the photo nowof Spence and yeah, when you
look at the apparently kid, he'slike a mini version.
He's coming through OK. So that is why I always thought
of him like that. I must have seen it at the time.
2 awesome things from the Internet.
Him and the dog that goes the Maple kind.
(06:02):
Do you know that one? Find that one as well guys.
Somebody. It's a guide.
We'll have a look at it. Look up dog, the Maple kind.
But anyway, guys, what happened?Spence complained of a sore knee
last April. 12 months ago. Thought he was being a bit of a
drama queen. He's a soccer player only, so he
played a lot of soccer, played abit of rugby union, yeah, water
(06:23):
polo, rode his bike, filled all those sorts of things.
That you do and last year was a bit of a washout because of all
the rain when the sun shine I said get out there and play I
don't care like your knee you'refine suck it up yeah so I send
them out they were just facing Yeah.
And it just didn't get better. So we went to the physio a
couple of times and she's just was a little bit worried.
We did a scan and they throw a tumor in his leg.
They thought osteosarcoma. And I'm like, right, they can
(06:44):
handle that. What's that?
It's a cancer that grows in the bone, very common with children.
OK, So I took him to the kids hospital and he had a bit of a
cough, so they did a chest X-rayand they said I'm really sorry.
We found spots in his lungs. And I was like, OK, I can handle
tumor in his leg, spots in his lungs.
We've got this. Then they did a full body scan
and found the primary tumour wrapped around his spine.
(07:05):
So it was wrapped around the nerves in his spine.
We didn't get a diagnosis for six weeks because of how rare it
is. When they found out it was a
malignant nerve sheath tumour, they've never been a case that
anyone survived. Yeah, there's very little
research, just not enough cases.Our oncologist had never heard
of it and neither had rare cancers.
Australia after 30 years, the guy said to us.
(07:26):
So we've opened the book at RareCancers on it and.
We've contacted people in America, they've never heard of
it. They heard of a kind of thing
like it that So who? Told you about it that gave you
that name. And I've just found it so
incredible that, you know, before April last year, you had
never heard of that term. Yeah, with things in it a lot.
In the last year, of course, yeah, Look, they had.
(07:47):
They kept dissecting it and saidwe're just trying to rule out
what it's not. And they kept saying no, it's
still not this. We can't work it out.
And then I got a post it note with the name on it and said
that's what it is. It's taken them six weeks.
All we can tell you at the moment is no treatment in the
world has ever worked. So we have to treat him as an
adult and give him adult doses of chemo.
(08:11):
Whatever we could throw at it, we threw at it.
But. Was there ever any moment where
you thought, oh, here we go, it's working?
Rob always had. I never thought that we would
get to this point. I think I always believed that
we would would be able to get through this.
Yeah, I don't. And I know Louise never thought
that. I don't know she would, would
have wanted dealt hope for that.And she always thought, yeah,
(08:32):
we'll give this treatment. We're going to try and we'll
see. But I think the difference with
us was that Lou spent every day,24 hours a day with Spence, with
the doctors in the hospitals, got to hear all the
conversations, things like that.Oh, he's stayed at home a lot
more to look after our other sonand go to work as well.
So I didn't get that sort of. I wasn't around that kind of
(08:54):
thing all the time. I knew it was.
Bad Louis. Yeah, I think Lou knew it was
bad, but. You're not having all of the
information. I mean, you're hearing what
Lou's telling you, but you don'thave all the information.
So in your mind, you're still. Yeah, but.
Yeah, and as much as like Louiseknew and much as she did tell
me, I know she had that much going on in her head and people
telling her things and people coming to talk to.
(09:14):
And her phone doesn't still to this day doesn't stop.
She puts it down for 10 minutes.There's 100 messages on all the
different various ways of getting a message to someone so.
On what? Why?
On Instagram, on Facebook, on normal text messages and what?
The messaging you, yeah. I've made quite a beautiful
group of friends through other cancer kids, so we've got a big
(09:34):
group that we are very close and.
So what are all these messages now?
Do you know what it's actually success stories about their
kids. One went back to AFL little
athletics last night, he ran like a 200 meter.
The other one started driving and they're very.
How is that for you though? Well that's what they say.
We don't want to show you this and I would never wish our
(09:57):
situation upon anyone. So I it kills me and I'm so
jealous that people have their kids right now.
But I also am grateful they havethe kids.
We want to hear their stories, too.
We want to. We're very nice to know them
driving, going. To get better.
Yeah. Because like I said, we don't
want anyone to have to feel likewe do or, or to to go through
(10:18):
this. But as much as it hurts, it
still also makes your heart warmto to know that these kids are
getting better. And that they love Spence and.
They, and it was because of Spence.
And I think we did a a fundraiser for Spence not long
ago, maybe six months ago, 10 months ago, and 1500 people
showed up to his fundraiser. And then his funeral, We had
(10:40):
over 1000 people show up at his funeral.
And I said at the time that people leave legacies behind,
and that was Spencer's legacies,those people, how much he was
loved and and cared for. But I think, yeah, because
Spencer was the kid he is. That's why we got so many people
that message us all the time. And unfortunately for me, they
don't have my number. They have Louise's.
So unfortunately with her, she'sthe one that gets all the
(11:01):
messages and has to reply. All and I love it.
I love it. And you.
You do. Yeah.
Because I totally get when you said you're jealous.
Yeah, Yeah, of course you are. Yeah, and you'd have because I
saw you go from zero to 100 as far as emotions go, just when
we're talking out there having alaugh 2 seconds into as soon as
we start talking about it. And if we'd, well, it would have
(11:24):
been a very different conversation this time a year
ago anyway. But ever since I've come off
these anxiety meds that I was onfor seven years, I couldn't cry
for seven years. And now I can.
And you? Need to cry?
You need to let it out. It's funny, I'm not used to it.
So it feels, it actually feels really weird for me.
We actually came to the Relay for Life last year.
(11:45):
I managed to wangle a gate pass from the hospital.
We came up to surprise, one of Spencer's best friends spent did
a lap in his wheelchair and I said to him, this time next year
we're going to come and we're going to walk for you beating
this. And do you know what?
I can't think of it as that He'slost his fight.
I still think that he's beaten it because we've got research,
(12:08):
we've got biopsies in place thatthey can research, like things
like that. He's had to have made a
difference. Something really.
That's the one. The one good thing that's come
of this is that he can still help with those those things
that are left behind that they can test.
And I can feel him today, his best friends here, our best,
like our families are all here. It's he's still here with us.
(12:42):
He never lost his sense of humour with anything.
No, and he'd also be really grateful that he's not here
because he'd hate just Lap. Lamps and he he was a white
skinned redhead, so the sun, he would have been absolutely
killed in the sun right now. Thank you for giving it a laugh.
Nothing's right. That's my life.
(13:02):
I'm just, you'd have ohh, man, so many ups and downs.
Yeah, yeah. What July did you say?
Yeah. July 22nd, 7 we're.
Only talking in a couple of months. 1500 hours.
On Tuesday be 9 weeks. It feels like a lifetime, but it
also feels like it was yesterday, yeah.
(13:22):
And I don't know about often, but I, it do seem to sort of
hear about people that have a long, long illness, long fight
over many, many years. And and then, you know, people
can say afterwards, well, they're in a better place now.
They were hurting for so long and that kind of thing.
This was so fast. Yeah, yeah, it was.
I mean, we went from three months ago.
(13:43):
They had the scan and I was awayfrom work, so I go away every
second week. So Louise took him.
And normally they hang around for the results afterwards in
the clinic, but clique's very busy, so sometimes takes a long
time to get them in to see them.But Lou said to the doctors
like, we're just going to go home after the scan.
Spencer's sort of uncomfortable,he's in a bit of pain, so we're
going to go straight home. Take your time, look at it
properly, and then call me later.
And it goes about 3:00 in the afternoon.
(14:05):
I drove home from out West and Isent a message to our youngest
son to see if mum and mum and Spence were OK and he said no
Mum's crying in the bedroom and at that point I don't know how I
didn't get a speeding ticket because I must have been doing
A140150 down the freeway to get home.
Before I got in the house, Louise came out to see me and
told me that the cancer had unfortunately spread everywhere.
(14:29):
So from the, the, the main partswe already knew about, it had
gone through to his brain and he, I think it was his liver,
you know, gone through his hips.And they said we had weeks and I
should probably stop work and spend some time with them.
That was on Thursday. We spent the next week together
doing things in and around the house and Spence doing as much
as he could. He was kind of bedridden a lot
at that point, but still talking, still eating.
(14:53):
Then he got to the following weekend and he just just went to
sleep. He's still alive.
He was, he was alive, but he just went to sleep, stopped
eating, stopped drinking. He was taking a lot of
medication at the same time and then said the palliative care
team came in and had to give hima liquid version of the tablets
he was taking. I asked the nurse, in your
professional opinion, they've told us weeks, you do this every
(15:15):
day. What do you think?
She said, I'm, I'm probably days.
And that was at three, 3:00 on the Monday afternoon.
Then he passed away the next morning at 7:30.
And so he didn't even last 15 hours.
But he did it his way. But.
He waited, didn't he? Yeah, that that morning I got
up, made a cup of tea, went had a chat to Spence.
Louise was laying in bed with him, just stroking his head and
(15:37):
giving him a scratch up and downthe arm and do it like that.
The Spence also had to be in touch to be smothered a lot.
So if you would have been able to say can you get off me
please? He would all so.
You'd say it, I said, do you want oh sorry, touching and you
went yes. It's like that moment Lou rolled
away to sort of face the ceiling, laying in bed, looked
at her phone. I went and sat down for a cup of
tea and he was still breathing, but he was short, sharp
(15:58):
breathing, but it was quite loud.
And as I sat down to have my cupof tea, I sat there and sort of
listened and thought to myself, I can't hear him anymore.
I can't hear it. And as I got up to go to the
bedroom, Lou would roll back andsaying the same thing or heard
the same thing. And she just said to me, I think
(16:19):
he's gone. He's gone and.
The two of you are there with him in the room.
Yeah, but he waited until I'd left the room at that point for
him, for that, that moment when he did leave us, nobody was
watching him or on him. He waited until we weren't
looking at him. I don't know.
A lot of people say that's what people sometimes do.
They wait for no one to be around.
(16:40):
But obviously we were going to be around, but not to be in his
face. If you like.
He did it his way. He did it, yeah.
Exactly his way. And yeah, that was I can't. 22nd
of July. I can't.
It was. I don't know how you're able to
talk. Have we just ruined your day
(17:00):
coming here by starting with this story?
I'm just. We've got last night.
No, I just, I don't. I don't know how you can talk.
Because of our other son, because of him, that's how we
can do it. And the feelings that have been
around us, I would never have survived.
No, and I can't, I can't say thank you enough to the people
(17:21):
that have been there for Lou when I've been at work or when
they've been stuck in the hospital all the time and the
the support that she has had. Yeah, because I just think, you
know, anyone, everyone listeningto this, did you know I've never
struggled to speak ever this much in my life?
(17:42):
Oh man, should've got back on the meds just for.
Today I've got some we've. Got some Now I know your secret.
No, I, you know, and I've done I've done tons of talking to
people like you through my entire career in in media and
there's always just something, something in me that's been able
to just go, I'm doing my job here.
(18:04):
I've got to be able to keep thisthing moving, especially with
live radio and things like it's just a block that goes in the
brain and clearly that's gone. I just what I was going to say
is that anyone and everyone listening to this, especially if
they have kids, you instantly put yourself, well, I do put
myself into your position and I just go.
I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to speak to anyone probably for
(18:26):
years is what I think. But I haven't been in the
situation I've got and I never want to be.
Tell us about because you do hear about Cancer Council and
these kind of groups, even canteen for the kids, things
like that and how much, how important they are and how much
they help. Well, the day after we were
(18:47):
diagnosed, Central Coast kids inneed had called me up at 7:00 AM
in the morning. So I sent them an e-mail Friday
night to say, look, we're, we don't know what we're dealing
with. I think it's cancer.
And they called me at 7:00 AM onthe Saturday morning.
Is that Rhonda? Lorraine, Rhonda and Lorraine.
Amazing ladies. They are incredible.
Yeah. I am covered in goosebumps now,
(19:08):
just the fact that you said Central Coast kids in need,
because one of the podcasts thatI produce beyond the tube fee
hosts that she's got a son who'sfed through a tube.
OK, So it's all about tube feeding this this whole podcast
and Oh my God, it's taken off because in their world there's
just no information. When Ezra got diagnosed, they
(19:29):
couldn't find out enough about it.
And so why she wanted to start the podcast was to be that thing
for people. Now she's a bunch of episodes
in. It's becoming the thing.
And we have the dream where a doctor, when telling someone
baby is going to be fed through a tube.
Here's some pamphlets and there's a podcast that you need
to listen to, you know, and, andshe talks to experts.
(19:51):
She talks to all sorts. And one of the episodes she did
with Laws and Rhonda, that was where I found out all about the
things that they do. Yeah.
You know, someone contacts them and goes, oh, these are the
medications and things that, yeah, my child's going to need.
And they'll just set up an account.
Absolutely. Yeah, the chemist.
Yeah. And they just take care of all
the medication. Anything you need them to do.
(20:12):
Anything. They took care of the run of
McDonald House bills that we would get run of.
McDonald House is an amazing charity as well, but it still
costs if you want to stay there.So that's what they used for us.
Right. So kissing me just said give us
all your bills and they offer topay tolls for the road, for the
motorways as well as fuel bills.Or if you have to stay in a
hotel, they'll pay for hotel cost as well and then
(20:33):
medications. And they just say you got to
sell your bills. They said just send us your
bills and we got told off. Loz and Rhonda actually had a go
at our because we didn't send them.
I was going to say as you, how do you feel when you're doing
you go, I'm not just going to keep.
Well, we felt bad to send them anything.
They were like, they were already doing this thing for us
anyway, which is amazing. Yeah, we're going to have to
make them do any more. And then they just told us all I
(20:54):
said, why haven't you sent us these?
They're like, oh, sorry. Are they doing a Kara lap?
I was going to say what's happening right now.
There's a whole bunch of people lined up along the edge of the
track. They just messaged me and said
the Kara lap is starting. What's that mean?
Are you meant to be out there? What's going on?
Thank God. Yeah.
Anybody wearing Farrah sashes? Yes.
How about you get out there and do your right and then swing
(21:15):
that cast here. And we'll wrap this up right
Once you've done your right, your tears far out, man.
And you tell me about the Kara lap and what it all means and
what that's about when you get back.
All right. Thanks.
No worries, run, you need to couch up.
Have you been to Guandalen Bowling Club?
They're right there on the shores of Lake Macquarie.
They do delicious meals upstairsin the Foreshore Bistro and
Cafe, which is run by the Dish Catering Group, so you know it's
(21:37):
good stuff and you can dine out on the balcony looking out over
the lake. It is beautiful.
They got the cute little foreshore kiosk for a coffee and
snacks right by the jetty. The entertainment's top notch.
They got Friday night seafood raffles and Sunday sessions with
live music in the beer garden. You wanna find out what's
happening at the club, Check outtheir Facebook page or visit
(21:58):
gwandalanbowlingclub.com dot AU King, Kumper Mitre Chan have
been big supporters of the Pod Dan podcast right from the start
and you get all the stuff from them that you'd expect to You
get plants, you get all the Weber stuff, you get all the
steel gear, the amazing principal kitchens, but it's the
stuff that you don't expect like.
That a customer come in with 46,000 colour sample swatches
(22:20):
just begin colour for her kitchen cupboards.
I adrenaled down to 4 colours for her.
And that took him out an hour and a half.
She got very emotional because she was so inundated with
colours. Towards the end, she was kind of
picking up the colours again. I said no, stop.
I've seen photos, seen videos. Her husband's come in and give
me a big hug, saying thank you so much because you're getting
very emotional about it. And she's super happy.
That's what she get. And the mighty helpful King
(22:42):
Kumble, mine again with Robin, Lou and Rob are back in.
They've just gone and done theircarer's lap.
Can you explain what that is? I think it's lap to honour
carers and survivors of cancer. We recognized a lot of carers,
(23:02):
yeah, but we actually may have cheated that a little bit.
We just did a carers, probably 10 meters and just enjoyed the
round of applause. Listen, I even knew what was
happening and I didn't pick up on us.
Like when you went walking past me with everyone else, I
thought, how did you get around that?
You must have run an entire. Lab to catch up to them.
Yeah, he has. Your straight up fleets
absolutely and you are. You are at home on an athletics
(23:24):
track clearly. I wish yes snuck in there and
just joined in as everyone. Should we just join in here?
Yeah, he looks good. So can you explain, obviously we
know what survivors is. These are people who've been
through it and they are what, I guess in remission now or is
that what? Yeah, do you know?
Remission. Some people are completely
clear. Yeah, OK.
Yeah. And then everyone with a care is
(23:46):
sash. Does that mean they lost someone
or they're? Currently, whether they're
currently caring or have cared for someone.
And it doesn't always need to bejust parents, aunts, uncles,
friends, anybody who's been there to help throughout that
whole process of the sickness. Again, whether they were a
survivor and you've cared for them through their journey
they've been through or if you have lost someone like we did,
Louise's sister, mum, dad, they were all there.
(24:08):
They gave care as well. They care for Spence.
Most people could probably wear a care as sash because they've
all given care at some point to these be.
Probably everyone here. Everyone under our tent could be
given a carers. They've cared for us.
Yeah, more than they would ever know.
So I was saying before when you guys went out and did your 10m
(24:29):
walk. Lap.
Lap sorry when you did your lap that's and I haven't had been
affected this way with emotions in quite a long time.
The track is just lined with people on both sides and the
applause just keeps going and going and going as everyone's
walking by got me again there because of the chat I just had
(24:49):
with you guys because I'm so used to this I'm struggling with
it. I looked at everyone walking in
a different way then I mean in the past sure I get it.
I know that obviously everyone there has been affected by
cancer in some way, but wow, youpeople, everyone walking there,
(25:13):
you've been through some stuff. And it doesn't matter if your
person's old, young, it's the same grief of losing someone or
even dealing with the diagnosis of cancer.
Like even hearing that, it just stops your entire world.
It doesn't matter what age you are, who you are.
How has life changed for you since this?
(25:34):
I'd love to say I appreciate life more.
I don't. I miss him and I wish I could go
back to this time last year and be willing.
He mounted a wheelchair. I wish I could hear his smile
and smell like I've got his aftershave on today so I can
smell him. But we don't.
(25:55):
We don't sweat the small stuff anymore.
I used to yell at my kids because they were 5 minutes late
at the door every morning or my God there's stuff on the floor
or whatever. But we don't sweat the small
stuff anymore. I don't stress about if the
washing's done or if we're 5 minutes late.
Life is different and life is hard and there's a lot of people
that are facing it. They're not as open as we are,
(26:16):
which is fine. Everyone's journey is their own.
But I, I would like to take fromthis that I can show other
people that you can lose child, but you can still carry on.
And you know a part of you dies when your child dies, but
there's still life, and you still have to live.
See, right now I've got Spencer's best friend waving out
(26:37):
the window. Give me the black shirt.
Yeah, and look what he's just done in the middle of you
talking. Yeah, just giving you a laugh.
Yeah, and that's what we do. And people must think I'm a bit
crazy because I, we do laugh a lot and we're very
inappropriate. Spencer is inappropriate as
well. Like that's how we've tackled
this. Yeah.
So there's no right or wrong. That's just do what you have to
(26:58):
do to survive. I interviewed a couple just
recently, Episode 199. She'd been diagnosed with cancer
so many times through her life, ever since a teenager, and would
beat it and then another one would pop up and then final one
came along and it was on her spine and behind her eye.
So two places. They just couldn't touch it,
couldn't do anything about it. And then the crazy twist in the
(27:21):
story as well. She's sitting there opposite me,
100% cancer free. Yeah.
So their thing, it's really thatepisode.
They're not preaching it in the slightest.
They're just sharing their story.
And I thought of them when you just said there's no right or
wrong way. So she was running a
(27:43):
hairdressing salon and none of her clients knew, had any idea
she would go. Oh, hang on, can you take over?
She need to pop out the back andgo and throw up.
Yeah, she's going through all ofher chemo and all of the stuff.
She didn't want that to be her thing.
And everyone always asks her, how you going?
How's it going to? She's a hairdresser.
So she got, she did her hair short.
(28:04):
She did her hair short and short, funky style because I'm a
hairdresser. No, it was covering the fact
that she was losing all of her hair and but she was sitting
opposite me, the longest flowinghair.
And yeah, when you say there's, there's no right way, some
people, you'll be out and talking to everybody and you'll
get that support and all that kind of thing.
(28:25):
And they went and visited Uncle Auntie, I think, was up on the
Gold Coast. As soon as they arrived there,
they looked at the two of them and went, wow, you guys look
amazing. And they eventually they found
out they'd switched to a carnivore diet.
So essentially all they eat is meat pretty much and eggs.
It's very, it's very much like Kino, but even like it's just
(28:47):
you just don't have any carbs, no carbs.
She was very, very unwell. And it was right at that time
when for anyone else who hasn't heard that episode and you're
curious about it, come have a listen.
They're not preaching it at all or anything.
I recorded with them on a Saturday and I'm like, you're
ruining my Saturday night because I've got plans for chips
and chocolate in front of the tally tonight now.
I'm just going to have a snake and a chicken breast.
(29:10):
Chewing on a tomahawk. But yeah, it, it, it all just
went all the cancer, she was going in for scans and things
and the doctor was like, what's going on?
She stopped all of her medication and yeah, it was
crazy, incredible, but it also just went to show that like with
Spence, when they looked and took them six weeks to go.
(29:32):
I don't know. We don't know what it is.
No one has all of the answers still with all of this
fundraising, with all of the research.
Yeah, and kids cancer is not as heavily researched and funded as
adult cancer. So we're still using adult
protocol in children. I guess the dream is with all of
this kind of stuff is that one day you get a diagnosis and it's
(29:57):
not actually that bad. It's like you've got cancer.
There was such and such. Take these pills twice a day.
Yeah, it'll clear up you. Just have to go to the doctor to
get your prescription for those pills.
You don't have to go to hospitalto spend days, yeah like to prod
and things like. That is the dream.
It's happened with so many otherthings with medicine.
Yeah. Over the years, yeah.
Yeah. You just hope through things
like this, the more research, the more they find out about it,
(30:20):
that one day there'll be something where they just go,
yeah, that's what's causing it. They're getting closer, it just
needs. Yeah.
Have you seen that? Have you?
Look, there's been a lot of different treatments that we
found out about. Yeah, we started immunotherapy
when the chemo and radiation didn't work.
There's a lot of advances, cyberknife, things like that in
(30:40):
America that they're trying. That's a different form of
radiation that just. Cyber knife, yeah.
I'm I'm sure. That one I mean, it's a little a
name for starters. I've got my new gamertag for
online. Fuck, I say it's like a fatty
ass thought of it. You make stuff up sometimes, but
I'm sure it's called cyber knifetreatment.
It's a form of radiation where it can just be directed straight
into, yeah, it's not out here yet because we don't have the
(31:02):
funding, but. Think of like everything you can
do with AI and it's like, yeah, cuz I'm right on the edge of all
the AI stuff and the updates andeverything AI are happening so
fast because you know who's working on it?
AI. So as it becomes more, you know,
self learning in medicine. The better it become.
(31:23):
The things that's think it's going to happen quick.
I hope so, I really do. And I hope that days like this.
Imagine not needing this correct.
They stop doing really late for life because you don't need to.
You get a diagnosis, you should take some pills.
Yeah, and we all do a survival app.
Every single person. Everyone does a survival app.
Everyone survives it like that would be the ultimate goal
(31:45):
because we've lost a lot of friends in the last 12 months.
We've met people and we've lost them.
Of course you go into that community, yeah.
Yeah, and we've got a little girl fighting now who is losing
her battle quite quickly. And we sent her a photo of us in
the sunshine and said we're walking for her today as well.
And she's just got a beautiful smile on her face.
And yeah, so if there's any reason to have to have gone on
(32:07):
this journey, I hope it's that we can make people aware.
Yeah, yeah. Do you have a final message for
anyone who's going through a really tough time right now?
And it doesn't have to be that their kids sick and cancer and
all that kind of thing. I mean, you guys have gone
through the worst over the last year.
(32:27):
I would say it's OK to accept help, to let people see you cry.
I have been tried to be very stoic in all of this.
I don't like to cry in front of people, but actually it's OK for
people to see that you're real and that you cry and that you're
not OK. Yeah.
That you're hurting. Yeah, and most of the time
you'll find those people are hurting right alongside you.
(32:48):
I know a lot of people have cried with us and said they
didn't want to show their emotions to us because we're the
ones who've lost our child, but they've just lost Spencer.
But to me, we've all lost someone who meant a huge deal to
us. So it doesn't matter how big or
small the loss, it's still an emotion.
You shouldn't have to hide it. Especially men, you are allowed
(33:11):
to cry and Rob's cried. We've allowed Baxter to cry our
other son. Like it's OK for people to cry
and be seen crying and also it'sOK to ask for help.
Yeah, and not Lucy. You just got a thing not to
sweat the small stuff. A lot of my customers who I've
got to know in my job, I travel and I'm a sailor.
So I see a lot of people since Spencer's passed away and the
(33:33):
first time I've seen them, they've always asked how we're
going. And I'm like, I'm fine, but tell
me what's going on in your life now.
Oh, nothing compared to you. And I was like, OK, the
difference is yes, there are differences.
However, give me your stories. Let me try and talk to you and
see if I can help you in any wayjust by listening.
If that's all it is, just don't keep anything bottled up.
Because they don't want to tell you about what's going on for
(33:55):
them, because it's nothing compared to what you've gone
through, but you actually want to talk to them can help.
The worst thing in their world? Yeah.
And then that's good for you. Like you want to be able to help
someone, It's. Nice to be able to have a
problem that someone tells you and you could be like.
Let's see what I can do to help.God I live for that.
I love it when someone tells me they've got a problem with their
phone. Someone just yesterday just go.
(34:18):
I can't film on my phone becausethe storage is all full and I'm
like, is it all photos and videos and say I've got tons
like I'm gonna change your life and it's just about backing it
up online and getting rid of theone.
I need help with that. God, because you don't need a
ball. So if you've got, what are you
using? Do you use Google Photos at all?
No. Or Apple.
(34:39):
Apple because he spends saying in my ear.
It was so embarrassing. Mum, I've tried to tell you a
million times. Seriously, if it if it's backed
up on the on the cloud, online freaking cloud, you can delete
it all from your phone you. Can't 'cause it might delete
from my life forever. Yeah, oh boy, and.
We've got hard drives as well, so there's three different
setups. Yeah, you've got backups.
No Free up the space on your phone.
(35:01):
Cannot. No.
Actually, yeah, I would say thatto anybody except you.
Please do not delete things off your phone because I don't want
to be you then a year from now. My son and now I've lost all the
photos on me. All because of rabbit.
Because the rabbit told me it's fine, the clouds got it.
The cloud ain't got nothing. Oh, you guys, thank you so much
(35:24):
for sharing your story. Thank you for having us.
Yeah, thank you very much. And I was saying to Lou last
night that I, I can't remember where I heard before I read it,
but there was a saying that juststuck with me.
And it just said, I love you more today than I did yesterday,
but not as much as I will tomorrow.
And I think, and that will just be the same every day of my
life. Tomorrow I'll love me more than
(35:45):
I did today. And it'll keep going, keep
going, keep going. And just today he's just, he's
never going to be forgotten herein any way, shape or form.
And not just by us, because obviously we're mum and dad, but
everybody that. Everyone that I remember and
forever. Everyone that he touched, so
many people, yeah. Yeah, he said.
I mean, I may remember him as the apparently kid.
(36:06):
The Paradise. I'm fine with that though, I'm
happy about that. As I go on through the years,
yeah, one day I'll say to someone, yeah.
Oh, there was this kid as benzo.He's so good.
He washed Wheelie Benz. He was on the news once.
He's like, apparently, you know,I'll just morph into one.
Yeah. We're OK with that, don't worry.
Guys, thank you so much for jumping in and.
(36:26):
Out Thank you very much appreciate.
It boy, I didn't see this coming, and nor did you.
We just saw the vent from our tent over there, so let's go so
hard to raps. And thank you so much for doing
that. Thank you.
Thank you podcast with Rabbit.
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Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.