November 16, 2025 • 26 mins
I was in a horrible place recently.
And even when a friend offered to listen, I told them I was fine. (I wasn't). This chat with my old colleague Larissa is about International Men's Day... and why she's championing it.
We talk about why it feels 'controversial' to even celebrate men, and the awful stats (three-quarters of suicides are male) that prove why we need to. We get into why we (as blokes) feel like a burden, why we struggle to talk, and why I've now promised to call one of my best mates (result below).
I think this is a really important chat.
We do mention suicide in this one, so if you're not in a great space yourself right now, maybe give this one a skip? And remember, Lifeline provides a free, 24-hour crisis support service. If you need to, call them on 13 11 14.
If you enjoy this episode, feel free to leave a comment - or maybe rate the podcast if you haven't done so yet? Thanks heaps!!
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This is a Podvan Media production.
* And yeah, Matt answered and we had a great chat. 🤗
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Rabbit podcast with Rabbit. I'm Rabbit.
I record this podcast inside a cute little retro caravan from
1967 that I tore around all overthe place.
Fan podcast with Rabbit. If you're listening to this
episode on the day it has been released, well then hello and
welcome to Monday. Coming up two days from now, it
is international Wednesday. No, it's not It's international
(00:27):
men's Day. It's on a Wednesday.
But here's The funny thing to talk all about International
Men's Day is a lady. How funny this is, Larissa.
Hi, how are you? Good.
To see you again. Lucy and I worked together at
STAR at the radio station. Yes, for a few couple of years.
Yeah, a couple of years there. Yeah.
I feel like you were championingmen back then.
(00:50):
Yes, yes, I was International Men's Day that year.
Before you left, we did an International Men's Day
breakfast. Yes, put on all of the gluten
free food and we wrote the little notes to you guys in the
jars. Ohh, that's right.
Yeah, that was beautiful. You took them around the office
and everyone wrote notes and they went into a jar.
Yes, we had a jar for all of youguys and just had a pile of
(01:11):
colourful paper there and just ask the girls to write something
that either they admired about you or just a kind word.
It was really great. Everyone participated and you
guys all got something special on the day.
It's a controversial 1. It's very.
Controversial, you know, becauseon International Women's Day you
get guys that will go, where's International Men's Day?
To which you can go, what's in November?
(01:32):
Yes, but to even be celebrating International Men's Day when
dudes have had it better. Yes, forever.
And it has tipped back the otherway.
I don't say men or women have itworse or better these days.
I think it's a real skewed view,though, that I think that we
have championed women for so long, we're forgetting that
(01:53):
there's still a space for men toget women to get the equality.
That was fantastic. I am a woman.
I think it's fantastic. But don't forget that there are
more people in the world. You know, men make a lot of
things happen that we can't makehappen, and that's also an
unpopular view. I was gonna say, yeah, hang on a
second. Yeah.
What things can't you make happen?
Well, a lot of us can't do. I mean, if you go right down to
(02:14):
the basics, look at the houses we live in, look at the roads
that we drive on, all of those things, If we take it right down
to basics, most women can't do those things.
I don't say that it's impossible, but there's a very
small percentage of us that could do that.
Do you talk about this much like?
This. Yes I do, and it's not always
popular. Yeah, no, I'm I'm hearing it
now. I just go.
I'm going to picture some faces looking at their stereos right
(02:36):
now going excuse me, yes, I can build a road.
I can. And I'm not saying anything.
You, you say all the things because I'm just like, and you
can, I mean, I don't know. I always struggled with it
because I didn't see like a difference between male and
(02:59):
female. You know, I go past some
construction being done and see some women on the work site.
It doesn't even sort of registerin my brain really.
I just figure, why wouldn't theybe like?
But then someone pointed out to me that yeah, but not everyone
looks at it the way you do. And that's why they've had to
fight so hard. That's why women have fought so
hard to be recognized, to be allowed to enter those
(03:22):
workplaces. There was a time when they
wouldn't have been allowed to. Yeah.
And there's also the wage gap between.
Yeah. And that is closing over the
years. But that wouldn't come into play
for us because we don't think that way.
There are big corporations that do still think that way.
And they that's where that comesin, the more more awareness.
But as all those years have gone, it has meant that there's
(03:43):
been a bit more forgetting the men in the world too.
So when you say forgetting them,because yeah, I was talking to
my wife about this the other dayabout the fact that I was going
to be talking to you and International Men's Day.
And I was saying because, like, there's bad dudes, but they're
not all bad. No, that's true.
It's. Bad women.
(04:04):
There's not all bad. There's bad people.
They're just people. And that's what we have to
remember. If there's bad people, but it's
not one gender, it's not one type of person, it's on one
nationality, It's just there's bad, there's good.
Generally, the bad is far smaller than the good.
Yeah, but I remember I did get told at one point when I was
sort of putting my point of viewacross like that where I just
go, aren't we all just people kind of thing.
(04:25):
And and someone went, yeah, but it's easy for you to say because
you're on that side when you're on the other side where, like
you say, where women weren't allowed, weren't allowed to
vote, weren't allowed into certain businesses, weren't
allowed into. I was down at Narandra a while
ago and there's this house there, most beautiful house.
And years ago, 1913, I think it was, it was the, was it the
(04:48):
Norandra Club? It was a gentlemen's club.
Women weren't allowed into it atall until I think it was like
the 1990s. And so, yes, it was pointed out
to me that, yeah, easy to go. Nah, we're all just the same.
I don't see it like that when you're on the privileged side.
Yep. Yeah, people, I think I am too.
(05:08):
I don't think I was born into a time where I wasn't privileged.
I don't think, you know, I'm in my 50s, but I don't remember a
time where I felt like women were less.
I was raised by a really strong single mother and she ran a
business of her own. She was hired in court reporting
and she had her career, She had everything and she was born in
the 40s, so. It really is.
(05:31):
It's your surroundings that dictate correct all of these
things and your views on things.And that as well, because I know
there'd be others who had a verydifferent upbringing to yours
with a strong mother who's had to, who you've seen do all these
amazing things which made you strong and it changed the way
you look at the dynamics and that.
Whereas someone who had a mum who couldn't get ahead in their
(05:54):
position at work was always being overlooked and everything.
And we'd talk about that at home.
Yeah, those kids are going to come up looking at it different.
And alternatively, a mum who wasmarried to a man who wouldn't
let her work. Yeah, you stay home with the
children. I'm the breadwinner.
It's just getting more and more.Dads are more involved now than
they ever were. You know, we grew up with all
parents sitting in the car or not even going to sport.
(06:16):
Now dads are involved. Dad's role, sense of success was
to earn the money, not to spend time with the children.
It was, if you think back to your parents, Oh yeah, it wasn't
about quality time, where you look at how you parent and how
much quality time you spend withyour kids.
That's generationally. We wanted it better for us, so
we've created it better for our kids.
(06:37):
Yeah, too good. Yes, yes.
It's another problem on the way.Definitely you.
Know learn some resilience. You gotta go through some tough
times. No, you don't.
I wanna pave the way for you so everything's smooth sailing.
Well, good luck when you get outin the workforce and we're not
doing. That for that right?
Well, we've gone too far. But why you?
(06:58):
I know you're hosting like a International Men's Day dinner.
Yes. So I did the first one last year
and we got about 30 guys there. Oh yeah, I've just put out an
invitation to all the people I know.
Just bring your wives. Bring your kids and see that
there are women that want to hear men.
That's my goal, to know that if one of my mates is in trouble or
someone I know, they don't feel like they can talk to their
(07:18):
family or to their spa, their partner or anything.
There is a set of ears over here.
And last year after we did it, Ihad three guys at the beach come
up and they just asked me to walk and talk with them.
And that was the beginning of atleast them realizing that some
women want to hear. Women are really good at talking
to each other. We will go and find a friend if
we're in crisis. You guys don't talk to anyone?
(07:40):
No, you hold it in and you're expected to hold it in.
You're expected to put the braveface forward to toughen up.
Best foot forward always and it's not healthy for you guys.
You'll get to a point where you break and 3/4 of suicides are
male because they break and that's the saddest part.
We need to highlight that and also to see where younger guys
(08:01):
come talk to someone like my son's 23, he knows and all of
his mates know. If you're in crisis, knock on my
door. I don't care whether it's 3:00
in the morning. I don't care if you need me to
drive to get you. Yeah, I will always make sure
that there's any. It's so important for them to
hear that because I went throughsome stuff very recently which
(08:22):
no one knows about and I was in a horrible, horrible place.
And it's actually my wife told me to talk to Julie.
And even then I messaged Jules and she was messaging back and
going, do you want to talk? And I said no, no, I'm good.
I wasn't. I couldn't talk, but I was
(08:42):
saying no, I'm good. I just, yeah, I don't know.
It's hard to talk. I don't know.
I don't know why. The next day, though, I called
her and yeah, it was, it made a huge difference.
So having someone tell you, yeah, that you can talk to them
and hearing it often as well, isthe other thing.
(09:04):
Are you saying that you'll say to your son and his friends
anytime? Like that's how Julie finished
the call yesterday. Yeah, it was yesterday.
That's very recent, yeah. Very recent she finished the
call with anytime day or night, doesn't matter what I'm doing.
And I do the same for her as well and I I love doing that for
(09:27):
her. I would do that for any of my
mates as well. Yet on my side I am 100% certain
I'm being a burden. I'm interrupting what they're
doing, probably having a great day.
I don't want to drag them down with this and I don't know if
that's just a guy thing though. Do you feel that sometimes when
you're going through things, if you were to voice it, the other
(09:48):
person might think it's not as big as you feel like it is right
now. That's what I've heard from a
lot of the young guys that they feel like when they say it out
loud that someone will go, oh, is that all you know?
So it negates how they feel. That sounds like that's coming
from people who haven't actuallyspoken to someone, because I
don't think you'll have. It depends on who you're talking
to. Yeah, it's getting better.
(10:10):
You know, work sites, things like that.
Not totally. It's certainly not fixed or
anything, but there are businesses that really push that
kind of thing. I know there's one that gets
into King Cumber Mitre, 10, and he has all of his staff wear
like crazy loud shirts on a Friday.
The reason behind it, people will go, whoa, what's with the
shirts? And it opens a conversation
where they go, it's the thing wedo for mental health on a
(10:32):
Friday, just opens a conversation about this is the
thing we do in this business formental health.
Yeah. And even just that says to
someone, if it's a guy saying that to them, what are you?
What are you doing? It could start a little
conversation. Yeah, and that does matter.
That's, you know, to know that people will not only talk but
listen because listening is everything.
(10:52):
This stuff, it's looking for little cues.
It's looking for someone that's usually outgoing, that goes
quiet. And it's not just choosing that
one day year. Are you OK?
Day is not. It's got to be every day.
If someone goes quiet, you don'tget that same text message.
We go, hey, what's going on? Guys?
Don't they just go, oh, they're running their own race and they
don't think about it. Yeah.
(11:13):
So it's that's something When I had my last event last year,
there was a couple of guys that just said, I've never known
anything like this to come from a woman.
You know, it's women do championwomen.
Men don't champion men in a personal sense.
If they're not champions of it, they're quite more quiet
achievers. Yeah, you're right.
Yeah. That's the part that got me.
(11:34):
And then also to make any kind of movement or change happen.
I don't think it's up to men to highlight this.
I think it's up to women to highlight that importance.
To show men that they're seen, that they're heard, that they
count, that they're better off on this side of the grass.
You know that we want to keep them that way and you know, just
to know that there's support andlove out there.
(11:55):
That's the key. That's the biggest key.
Oh, it's that's what I do for. Today is not the day for me to
be talking to you about this. Yeah.
No, it is because as much as guys may even think they don't
need to hear that, not not that they don't want to, they may
(12:17):
think they don't need to. I remember because I said before
we worked at the radio station together there, I had my mum and
dad on for my 200th episode and I said to them about the day
when they they lived down in Melbourne and I had no idea.
This was at the time when the contract talks were happening
and everything. And I was a mess man.
And they heard it in my voice. You haven't seen me have
(12:41):
emotions before. I have ones, yes.
I have ones, yes. And I was up on the side of the
road and the car pulled up and the window wound down and it was
my mum and dad. And that was a moment of I
didn't know I needed a hug, you know, And I did.
And I think with an event like yours, when you get guys coming
(13:06):
up going, I've never felt this kind of thing before or known
that anyone would want to listen.
It's important. And they probably didn't know it
until then. Most of them didn't last year,
but there's one guy I can think of in particular.
We've known him for quite a longtime, Always the strengths,
always the one that helps the other guys, picks them up
professionally a lot of the timetoo.
(13:28):
And he was the one that at the end of it just went, wow, this
is really cool. I've never had anything like
this. Yeah.
Because it's, he was the meant to be the strong one.
He is the meant to prop the family up, to do all those
things. Then to see a whole bunch of
other men just being acknowledged.
And I think that's the key. It's, you know, it's a.
Powerful thing, Eddie. I think it's like Father's Day
(13:50):
when I get gifts on Father's Day.
It's everything and for me can be a handmade card and it is
everything because they've they've thought of you that day.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I think you can quite often think that Dad, husband, whoever
the bulk is, they don't need it.Oh, you just don't even think of
it. I don't know.
(14:10):
Yeah. But I can tell you that
handwritten card on Father's Day.
Yeah. Yeah.
Changes everything. Yeah, we'll let you know that
you do matter because you are taken for granted as but well,
moms and dads are. Yeah, it's need the money, need
to go here, drive me there, all of those things.
But when that comes through, that's the the minute you go, it
(14:31):
all counts. Gwendoline Bowling Club now,
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You can grab some drinks in the beer garden.
(14:53):
There's live entertainment all the time and they got coffee and
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(15:16):
AU. King Kumper Mitre, 10, have been
big supporters of the Pod Dan podcast right from the start and
you get all the stuff from them that you'd expect to.
You get plans, you get all the Weber stuff, you get all the
steel gear, the amazing principal kitchens, but it's the
stuff that you don't expect like.
That a customer come in with 46,000 colour sample swatches.
She's big in colour for her kitchen cupboards.
(15:37):
I drew down to 4 colours for herand that took him out an hour
and a half. She got very emotional because
she was so inundated with colours.
Towards the end she was kind of picking up the colours again.
I said no stop. I've seen photos, seen videos.
Her husband's come in and gave me a big hug, saying thank you
so much because you're getting very emotional about it and
she's super happy. That's what she get and the
mighty helpful King Campbell minor Jen, it's the podcast with
(16:01):
Rabbit. I love those.
There's a video I saw recently and it's from New Zealand.
Have you seen? It's a bunch of guys.
It's just big dude sitting thereon camera.
He gets his phone out, rings up a mate, puts his phone on
speakerphone and made answers. I just love all the Kiwi
accents. Oh hey bro oh what's going on
(16:23):
cuz? Oh nothing bro.
I just wanted to call and tell you I love you bro Yes.
I love those videos. But not once in any of them does
the guy on the other end go. Oh what?
Yeah, what's that all about? What do you, what do you mean
like that? Instantly say love you too bro.
Yeah, yeah, I've seen a few fromAmerica and they go, what are
you doing? You know, and they question, but
it always finishes with love youtoo and thanks.
(16:45):
Yeah, Yeah, it's amazing. What that minute and make a
difference could be someone teetering on the edge.
Yeah, I think we've got, yeah, we've got so much to learn.
And I think we need to just havethe conversations.
Like, for me, even the guys thatI've invited have said, what can
I bring? What can I do?
(17:05):
I'm like nothing. I don't want you to do anything.
I think last year it cost me about $500 to put the dinner on.
Really. But yourself.
Yeah, this year I've created a group with the girls and just
said if you can, flick in. If you can't, my credit card
will get. It'll recover later because it's
my gift to them. I'm not asking them to come and
pay for dinner. This is where you know it needs
(17:26):
to be something just for them. It's so cool, people doing those
kinds of things for other people, the impact it has on
them, even just that phone call.Yeah.
I got to get over myself as far as I never call anyone because I
figure I'm interrupting their day.
Really 100? Percent.
I never call anyone and that's why.
(17:48):
And I don't even know if at all if I'll do it as I'm driving
home from here. Yeah, I was thinking of one of
them yesterday. I was thinking about them all
the time and thinking, ask him acall, see what he's doing.
I won't. I don't.
Because you think, oh, he's probably busy, Yeah.
Does everyone do that? It's definitely more a guy thing
because I'll often say I was thinking about exactly what you
just said. I was thinking about that person
(18:09):
the other day. Yeah, I reckon there's a bit of
if they don't answer, I'm picturing that they've looked at
their phone and gone. Not now.
Yeah, that's what I picture. That happens with women do
though, Yeah, Because if he knows the person well and you
know that their phone's in theirhand 24/7 and then they don't
answer, then you do. You always go to that first
place. It's funny, there's, there's
people that I'll call Julie anytime because I know she'll
(18:32):
answer and she can call me anytime because she knows I'll
answer. And if I don't, there's there's
a reason why and I might even shoot a text back or whatever
others. I don't know.
I just always feel like I'll be interrupting.
Clearly I don't care if I'm interrupting Julie.
I think that's what's coming outof this now.
She's made it crystal clear to me anytime.
But it doesn't even have to be about I'm having a rough time.
(18:54):
I need to talk or anything Couldbe that I saw something funny.
It could be whatever it's. Just saying.
Hey, yeah, yeah. And yeah, that's so weird that
I, Matt Degroot's getting a phone call on my phone.
See what happens? It doesn't answer.
I'll put a little footnote on the bottom of this.
You know what? Have a read of the show notes of
(19:15):
this episode. I will put in the bottom what
happened on my drive home and whether I spoke to Matt.
I need. To know this.
Too. Poor guy, if he just can't
answer his phone, he's getting ablast.
In the comments. Got more out of this than I was
intending. Apologies.
No, it's, it's good good to talkabout this stuff.
(19:35):
It is. This year's theme is great.
It's celebrating men's and boy, men and boys.
Every year has a theme, same as Nate Week and all of those, they
all have a theme. This year is celebrating men and
boys. So the idea is this year to get
out there and celebrate and let someone know that they matter,
celebrate what they've done. I'm doing it all right.
So on Wednesday I am going to goaround and make those notes like
(19:57):
you did. I can think of Vince, my
mechanic. He'd love a little note like
that just dropped off to him. I probably won't be able to say
the words to anybody because I'man emotional wreck at the
moment. But yeah, think of others as
well. Just go around my son.
And I love that you say that you're doing that too, because
it's, you know, I'm driving it in the way of women doing it.
(20:18):
I love that you're going to takethat on.
I would really want to see guys celebrate other guys.
That's something to me that's really important as well.
I know why there's hesitation indoing it as well, because any
guys out there go and it's International Men's Day.
Let's celebrate the men kind of thing.
You you're really sticking your head up.
Women have got to champion it. We we are the ones we have to
champion it. But it's nice if you guys go and
(20:39):
do what? You guys doing enough and.
And you can go to the old joke in an everyday men's day.
I've had that a lot since I've started champion a few years
ago. Yeah, I've had a lot of people
just go come on, isn't everyday men's day?
I said when? In the 50s maybe, but even then
it probably wasn't either. The pressure to go out and
(21:00):
support the whole family, the pressure to, you know, there
wasn't another person in the house working.
So if we look at all of those different little bits and
pieces, no, it wasn't men's day.We we were disadvantaged in
political senses in all of thosethings, but we weren't always
completely disadvantaged. And even if women were and
(21:21):
absolutely were disadvantaged, men were as well.
Correct. Yeah, that was my point.
Yeah, they were in other ways. The pressure to succeed, to
bring home as much as they possibly could, to create a
comfortable life, robbed them offamily time.
I really believe that's been my biggest thing I think since
doing this podcast and hearing all of all these people's
different point of views on on things is that there's no right
(21:43):
or wrong way with everything. Your circumstances dictate your
opinions, your upbringing, your surroundings, everything shapes
you to be the way you are. And I can totally understand
anyone listening to this and going, what a crock of shit.
Men have had it so good for so long.
God, I wish we didn't have International Men's Day.
(22:05):
And I'm fine with someone feeling like that.
Actually. I am because that's their right
to feel like that and not sayingit in a condescending kind of
sarcastic way or anything. Oh OK, you go feel like that.
That's fine. It's not even like that.
Totally respect. Everyone can feel the way they
feel about whatever topic is sort of how I feel with.
(22:26):
Things And that's how I feel too.
I was told by a few people, you know, you might lose some
friends through, you know, beingas passionate as I am about
this. This all was born from my
husband being in a really huge workplace that International
Women's Day is now InternationalWomen's Week.
So they celebrate and the girls,because there are so few women
in the workplace, they might getsent off to the beautician or
(22:48):
they might have a picnic day or sent out for lunch.
The thousands of men that are inthe business didn't have
anything, not even the date acknowledged.
And my husband pushed for it in his business and he got a
sausage this off on the first year.
And that was a tokenistic. The head of HR of the business
he works for was if you want it to happen, you make it happen.
(23:09):
It wasn't the business or them going.
Hey, that does exist. We do celebrate every other day
in Australia, even cupcake day. It's like, you know, we have
well, doughnut day. We we jump onto every day we
have all of these celebrations. He's got to tie food in to men's
day. That's right, it's.
Got to be 1 particular like the doughnut.
Doughnut Day is associated with it and everyone's on board then,
(23:32):
but. It's funny, isn't it, that we
jump on so many different. I get it, though.
I do get it. You're talking about a business
there, big business with lots ofguys in it.
And then, you know, someone in management goes, we're gonna,
we're gonna celebrate all the men in the workplace.
It's like that's a potential PR nightmare.
It is. Yeah, it is.
But just put on a nice breakfastfull of each year.
(23:52):
Yeah, that was where they used to have a really good initiative
with his business, the business he works for, and it was all
about men's mental health. It was years ago and there was
facilities for them to take on extra counselling, all of those
different things, not just your typical EAP or whatever they
call them these days. It was further than that, but
that all kind of went by the buyer as well.
And then when this was brought to their attention, it's just
(24:13):
one day where they can actually say thanks.
This is thousands of people thatare pretty much running this
business. Yeah, it's a good time to say
thank you. It just needs to be an
acknowledgement. Yeah.
And I'm prepared for the backlash that that does come off
these things. And I'm OK with that.
And I really don't have a problem.
I don't need to sell it to anyone.
To me, I just want to have something that resonates with
other people. If it does make sense to them,
(24:34):
jump on board. Yeah.
You know and. If not, that's OK.
And that's OK. That's fine.
Yeah, it's absolutely OK. Yeah.
I like that what you do for those guys has an impact on
those guys. Yep, a +1 on some people, and I
don't think there's anything wrong with that.
No. And that's how I feel like as I
think if I can impact people in my world, just in my circle, and
(24:56):
if my circle gets bigger and it helps just someone else that I
may not have known that was in trouble.
Through this chat now on Wednesday, Vince, my mechanic,
is going to get a note dropped into him.
He's a lovely bloke, I know it will make his day.
Yeah, well, you don't know what he's going through you.
Don't know what anyone's going through.
I've had four friends take theirown lives in four years.
(25:18):
Yeah, and that highlighted for me.
Two of them. I wouldn't have said I'd expect
it, but I wasn't completely surprised because there was
turmoil. The other two really shocked me.
Yep, really shocked. And I think that to me
highlights that we just need to make guys seen, heard.
Make sure that they know that ifthey're your father, if they're
(25:41):
your husband, if you're your brother and you do feel love for
them in appreciation, go say it.Just it doesn't have to be on
19th of November say at any day,say at any time, but it's that
we are overlooking. Yeah, well, I mean, I just
clicked to what I was saying there myself because I was
saying it, but I only just realized what I'm saying.
You were saying about your circle, and you want to look
(26:02):
after your circle, you'll just do that.
And if it does reach wide, it will.
That thing of me wanting to go to Vince, the thing of me
wanting to call Matt on my way home today, it has.
It's influenced someone already to make me want to do that.
So you keep doing what you're doing.
Yep, I'm passioned about passioned about it and it's got
a ripple effect. Absolutely.
Yep. Yep.
Someone else listening to this will maybe go to their partner
(26:24):
or a guy at their work and just go, you know, you're really
appreciated and I think you do agreat job.
Just because they're a guy doesn't mean you can't say those
things to them. That's right.
Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you so much for jumping inand chatting about this.
I was very nervous about it. Any hate mail?
I'll pop Larissa's e-mail address at the bottom.
He'll create a new one.
Rabbit podcast with Rabbit. I'm Rabbit.
I record this podcast inside a cute little retro caravan from
1967 that I tore around all overthe place.
Fan podcast with Rabbit. If you're listening to this
episode on the day it has been released, well then hello and
welcome to Monday. Coming up two days from now, it
is international Wednesday. No, it's not It's international
(00:27):
men's Day. It's on a Wednesday.
But here's The funny thing to talk all about International
Men's Day is a lady. How funny this is, Larissa.
Hi, how are you? Good.
To see you again. Lucy and I worked together at
STAR at the radio station. Yes, for a few couple of years.
Yeah, a couple of years there. Yeah.
I feel like you were championingmen back then.
(00:50):
Yes, yes, I was International Men's Day that year.
Before you left, we did an International Men's Day
breakfast. Yes, put on all of the gluten
free food and we wrote the little notes to you guys in the
jars. Ohh, that's right.
Yeah, that was beautiful. You took them around the office
and everyone wrote notes and they went into a jar.
Yes, we had a jar for all of youguys and just had a pile of
(01:11):
colourful paper there and just ask the girls to write something
that either they admired about you or just a kind word.
It was really great. Everyone participated and you
guys all got something special on the day.
It's a controversial 1. It's very.
Controversial, you know, becauseon International Women's Day you
get guys that will go, where's International Men's Day?
To which you can go, what's in November?
(01:32):
Yes, but to even be celebrating International Men's Day when
dudes have had it better. Yes, forever.
And it has tipped back the otherway.
I don't say men or women have itworse or better these days.
I think it's a real skewed view,though, that I think that we
have championed women for so long, we're forgetting that
(01:53):
there's still a space for men toget women to get the equality.
That was fantastic. I am a woman.
I think it's fantastic. But don't forget that there are
more people in the world. You know, men make a lot of
things happen that we can't makehappen, and that's also an
unpopular view. I was gonna say, yeah, hang on a
second. Yeah.
What things can't you make happen?
Well, a lot of us can't do. I mean, if you go right down to
(02:14):
the basics, look at the houses we live in, look at the roads
that we drive on, all of those things, If we take it right down
to basics, most women can't do those things.
I don't say that it's impossible, but there's a very
small percentage of us that could do that.
Do you talk about this much like?
This. Yes I do, and it's not always
popular. Yeah, no, I'm I'm hearing it
now. I just go.
I'm going to picture some faces looking at their stereos right
(02:36):
now going excuse me, yes, I can build a road.
I can. And I'm not saying anything.
You, you say all the things because I'm just like, and you
can, I mean, I don't know. I always struggled with it
because I didn't see like a difference between male and
(02:59):
female. You know, I go past some
construction being done and see some women on the work site.
It doesn't even sort of registerin my brain really.
I just figure, why wouldn't theybe like?
But then someone pointed out to me that yeah, but not everyone
looks at it the way you do. And that's why they've had to
fight so hard. That's why women have fought so
hard to be recognized, to be allowed to enter those
(03:22):
workplaces. There was a time when they
wouldn't have been allowed to. Yeah.
And there's also the wage gap between.
Yeah. And that is closing over the
years. But that wouldn't come into play
for us because we don't think that way.
There are big corporations that do still think that way.
And they that's where that comesin, the more more awareness.
But as all those years have gone, it has meant that there's
(03:43):
been a bit more forgetting the men in the world too.
So when you say forgetting them,because yeah, I was talking to
my wife about this the other dayabout the fact that I was going
to be talking to you and International Men's Day.
And I was saying because, like, there's bad dudes, but they're
not all bad. No, that's true.
It's. Bad women.
(04:04):
There's not all bad. There's bad people.
They're just people. And that's what we have to
remember. If there's bad people, but it's
not one gender, it's not one type of person, it's on one
nationality, It's just there's bad, there's good.
Generally, the bad is far smaller than the good.
Yeah, but I remember I did get told at one point when I was
sort of putting my point of viewacross like that where I just
go, aren't we all just people kind of thing.
(04:25):
And and someone went, yeah, but it's easy for you to say because
you're on that side when you're on the other side where, like
you say, where women weren't allowed, weren't allowed to
vote, weren't allowed into certain businesses, weren't
allowed into. I was down at Narandra a while
ago and there's this house there, most beautiful house.
And years ago, 1913, I think it was, it was the, was it the
(04:48):
Norandra Club? It was a gentlemen's club.
Women weren't allowed into it atall until I think it was like
the 1990s. And so, yes, it was pointed out
to me that, yeah, easy to go. Nah, we're all just the same.
I don't see it like that when you're on the privileged side.
Yep. Yeah, people, I think I am too.
(05:08):
I don't think I was born into a time where I wasn't privileged.
I don't think, you know, I'm in my 50s, but I don't remember a
time where I felt like women were less.
I was raised by a really strong single mother and she ran a
business of her own. She was hired in court reporting
and she had her career, She had everything and she was born in
the 40s, so. It really is.
(05:31):
It's your surroundings that dictate correct all of these
things and your views on things.And that as well, because I know
there'd be others who had a verydifferent upbringing to yours
with a strong mother who's had to, who you've seen do all these
amazing things which made you strong and it changed the way
you look at the dynamics and that.
Whereas someone who had a mum who couldn't get ahead in their
(05:54):
position at work was always being overlooked and everything.
And we'd talk about that at home.
Yeah, those kids are going to come up looking at it different.
And alternatively, a mum who wasmarried to a man who wouldn't
let her work. Yeah, you stay home with the
children. I'm the breadwinner.
It's just getting more and more.Dads are more involved now than
they ever were. You know, we grew up with all
parents sitting in the car or not even going to sport.
(06:16):
Now dads are involved. Dad's role, sense of success was
to earn the money, not to spend time with the children.
It was, if you think back to your parents, Oh yeah, it wasn't
about quality time, where you look at how you parent and how
much quality time you spend withyour kids.
That's generationally. We wanted it better for us, so
we've created it better for our kids.
(06:37):
Yeah, too good. Yes, yes.
It's another problem on the way.Definitely you.
Know learn some resilience. You gotta go through some tough
times. No, you don't.
I wanna pave the way for you so everything's smooth sailing.
Well, good luck when you get outin the workforce and we're not
doing. That for that right?
Well, we've gone too far. But why you?
(06:58):
I know you're hosting like a International Men's Day dinner.
Yes. So I did the first one last year
and we got about 30 guys there. Oh yeah, I've just put out an
invitation to all the people I know.
Just bring your wives. Bring your kids and see that
there are women that want to hear men.
That's my goal, to know that if one of my mates is in trouble or
someone I know, they don't feel like they can talk to their
(07:18):
family or to their spa, their partner or anything.
There is a set of ears over here.
And last year after we did it, Ihad three guys at the beach come
up and they just asked me to walk and talk with them.
And that was the beginning of atleast them realizing that some
women want to hear. Women are really good at talking
to each other. We will go and find a friend if
we're in crisis. You guys don't talk to anyone?
(07:40):
No, you hold it in and you're expected to hold it in.
You're expected to put the braveface forward to toughen up.
Best foot forward always and it's not healthy for you guys.
You'll get to a point where you break and 3/4 of suicides are
male because they break and that's the saddest part.
We need to highlight that and also to see where younger guys
(08:01):
come talk to someone like my son's 23, he knows and all of
his mates know. If you're in crisis, knock on my
door. I don't care whether it's 3:00
in the morning. I don't care if you need me to
drive to get you. Yeah, I will always make sure
that there's any. It's so important for them to
hear that because I went throughsome stuff very recently which
(08:22):
no one knows about and I was in a horrible, horrible place.
And it's actually my wife told me to talk to Julie.
And even then I messaged Jules and she was messaging back and
going, do you want to talk? And I said no, no, I'm good.
I wasn't. I couldn't talk, but I was
(08:42):
saying no, I'm good. I just, yeah, I don't know.
It's hard to talk. I don't know.
I don't know why. The next day, though, I called
her and yeah, it was, it made a huge difference.
So having someone tell you, yeah, that you can talk to them
and hearing it often as well, isthe other thing.
(09:04):
Are you saying that you'll say to your son and his friends
anytime? Like that's how Julie finished
the call yesterday. Yeah, it was yesterday.
That's very recent, yeah. Very recent she finished the
call with anytime day or night, doesn't matter what I'm doing.
And I do the same for her as well and I I love doing that for
(09:27):
her. I would do that for any of my
mates as well. Yet on my side I am 100% certain
I'm being a burden. I'm interrupting what they're
doing, probably having a great day.
I don't want to drag them down with this and I don't know if
that's just a guy thing though. Do you feel that sometimes when
you're going through things, if you were to voice it, the other
(09:48):
person might think it's not as big as you feel like it is right
now. That's what I've heard from a
lot of the young guys that they feel like when they say it out
loud that someone will go, oh, is that all you know?
So it negates how they feel. That sounds like that's coming
from people who haven't actuallyspoken to someone, because I
don't think you'll have. It depends on who you're talking
to. Yeah, it's getting better.
(10:10):
You know, work sites, things like that.
Not totally. It's certainly not fixed or
anything, but there are businesses that really push that
kind of thing. I know there's one that gets
into King Cumber Mitre, 10, and he has all of his staff wear
like crazy loud shirts on a Friday.
The reason behind it, people will go, whoa, what's with the
shirts? And it opens a conversation
where they go, it's the thing wedo for mental health on a
(10:32):
Friday, just opens a conversation about this is the
thing we do in this business formental health.
Yeah. And even just that says to
someone, if it's a guy saying that to them, what are you?
What are you doing? It could start a little
conversation. Yeah, and that does matter.
That's, you know, to know that people will not only talk but
listen because listening is everything.
(10:52):
This stuff, it's looking for little cues.
It's looking for someone that's usually outgoing, that goes
quiet. And it's not just choosing that
one day year. Are you OK?
Day is not. It's got to be every day.
If someone goes quiet, you don'tget that same text message.
We go, hey, what's going on? Guys?
Don't they just go, oh, they're running their own race and they
don't think about it. Yeah.
(11:13):
So it's that's something When I had my last event last year,
there was a couple of guys that just said, I've never known
anything like this to come from a woman.
You know, it's women do championwomen.
Men don't champion men in a personal sense.
If they're not champions of it, they're quite more quiet
achievers. Yeah, you're right.
Yeah. That's the part that got me.
(11:34):
And then also to make any kind of movement or change happen.
I don't think it's up to men to highlight this.
I think it's up to women to highlight that importance.
To show men that they're seen, that they're heard, that they
count, that they're better off on this side of the grass.
You know that we want to keep them that way and you know, just
to know that there's support andlove out there.
(11:55):
That's the key. That's the biggest key.
Oh, it's that's what I do for. Today is not the day for me to
be talking to you about this. Yeah.
No, it is because as much as guys may even think they don't
need to hear that, not not that they don't want to, they may
(12:17):
think they don't need to. I remember because I said before
we worked at the radio station together there, I had my mum and
dad on for my 200th episode and I said to them about the day
when they they lived down in Melbourne and I had no idea.
This was at the time when the contract talks were happening
and everything. And I was a mess man.
And they heard it in my voice. You haven't seen me have
(12:41):
emotions before. I have ones, yes.
I have ones, yes. And I was up on the side of the
road and the car pulled up and the window wound down and it was
my mum and dad. And that was a moment of I
didn't know I needed a hug, you know, And I did.
And I think with an event like yours, when you get guys coming
(13:06):
up going, I've never felt this kind of thing before or known
that anyone would want to listen.
It's important. And they probably didn't know it
until then. Most of them didn't last year,
but there's one guy I can think of in particular.
We've known him for quite a longtime, Always the strengths,
always the one that helps the other guys, picks them up
professionally a lot of the timetoo.
(13:28):
And he was the one that at the end of it just went, wow, this
is really cool. I've never had anything like
this. Yeah.
Because it's, he was the meant to be the strong one.
He is the meant to prop the family up, to do all those
things. Then to see a whole bunch of
other men just being acknowledged.
And I think that's the key. It's, you know, it's a.
Powerful thing, Eddie. I think it's like Father's Day
(13:50):
when I get gifts on Father's Day.
It's everything and for me can be a handmade card and it is
everything because they've they've thought of you that day.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I think you can quite often think that Dad, husband, whoever
the bulk is, they don't need it.Oh, you just don't even think of
it. I don't know.
(14:10):
Yeah. But I can tell you that
handwritten card on Father's Day.
Yeah. Yeah.
Changes everything. Yeah, we'll let you know that
you do matter because you are taken for granted as but well,
moms and dads are. Yeah, it's need the money, need
to go here, drive me there, all of those things.
But when that comes through, that's the the minute you go, it
(14:31):
all counts. Gwendoline Bowling Club now,
they have been on board with thePod Van podcast since the very
beginning and I appreciate them so much.
If you haven't been out there before, pop on out and check it
out. It's right on the shores of Lake
Macquarie. It's got everything you need
from great food at the ForeshoreBistro.
You can grab some drinks in the beer garden.
(14:53):
There's live entertainment all the time and they got coffee and
snacks down by the water at the foreshore Sure kiosk.
Good place to kick the footy around with the kids there as
well. It's the kind of place that just
reminds you to slow down a bit, catch up with some friends,
listen to some live music. It's Gwendoline Bowling Club
drop in sometime. Check out what's on on their
Facebook page or at gwendolinebowlingclub.com dot
(15:16):
AU. King Kumper Mitre, 10, have been
big supporters of the Pod Dan podcast right from the start and
you get all the stuff from them that you'd expect to.
You get plans, you get all the Weber stuff, you get all the
steel gear, the amazing principal kitchens, but it's the
stuff that you don't expect like.
That a customer come in with 46,000 colour sample swatches.
She's big in colour for her kitchen cupboards.
(15:37):
I drew down to 4 colours for herand that took him out an hour
and a half. She got very emotional because
she was so inundated with colours.
Towards the end she was kind of picking up the colours again.
I said no stop. I've seen photos, seen videos.
Her husband's come in and gave me a big hug, saying thank you
so much because you're getting very emotional about it and
she's super happy. That's what she get and the
mighty helpful King Campbell minor Jen, it's the podcast with
(16:01):
Rabbit. I love those.
There's a video I saw recently and it's from New Zealand.
Have you seen? It's a bunch of guys.
It's just big dude sitting thereon camera.
He gets his phone out, rings up a mate, puts his phone on
speakerphone and made answers. I just love all the Kiwi
accents. Oh hey bro oh what's going on
(16:23):
cuz? Oh nothing bro.
I just wanted to call and tell you I love you bro Yes.
I love those videos. But not once in any of them does
the guy on the other end go. Oh what?
Yeah, what's that all about? What do you, what do you mean
like that? Instantly say love you too bro.
Yeah, yeah, I've seen a few fromAmerica and they go, what are
you doing? You know, and they question, but
it always finishes with love youtoo and thanks.
(16:45):
Yeah, Yeah, it's amazing. What that minute and make a
difference could be someone teetering on the edge.
Yeah, I think we've got, yeah, we've got so much to learn.
And I think we need to just havethe conversations.
Like, for me, even the guys thatI've invited have said, what can
I bring? What can I do?
(17:05):
I'm like nothing. I don't want you to do anything.
I think last year it cost me about $500 to put the dinner on.
Really. But yourself.
Yeah, this year I've created a group with the girls and just
said if you can, flick in. If you can't, my credit card
will get. It'll recover later because it's
my gift to them. I'm not asking them to come and
pay for dinner. This is where you know it needs
(17:26):
to be something just for them. It's so cool, people doing those
kinds of things for other people, the impact it has on
them, even just that phone call.Yeah.
I got to get over myself as far as I never call anyone because I
figure I'm interrupting their day.
Really 100? Percent.
I never call anyone and that's why.
(17:48):
And I don't even know if at all if I'll do it as I'm driving
home from here. Yeah, I was thinking of one of
them yesterday. I was thinking about them all
the time and thinking, ask him acall, see what he's doing.
I won't. I don't.
Because you think, oh, he's probably busy, Yeah.
Does everyone do that? It's definitely more a guy thing
because I'll often say I was thinking about exactly what you
just said. I was thinking about that person
(18:09):
the other day. Yeah, I reckon there's a bit of
if they don't answer, I'm picturing that they've looked at
their phone and gone. Not now.
Yeah, that's what I picture. That happens with women do
though, Yeah, Because if he knows the person well and you
know that their phone's in theirhand 24/7 and then they don't
answer, then you do. You always go to that first
place. It's funny, there's, there's
people that I'll call Julie anytime because I know she'll
(18:32):
answer and she can call me anytime because she knows I'll
answer. And if I don't, there's there's
a reason why and I might even shoot a text back or whatever
others. I don't know.
I just always feel like I'll be interrupting.
Clearly I don't care if I'm interrupting Julie.
I think that's what's coming outof this now.
She's made it crystal clear to me anytime.
But it doesn't even have to be about I'm having a rough time.
(18:54):
I need to talk or anything Couldbe that I saw something funny.
It could be whatever it's. Just saying.
Hey, yeah, yeah. And yeah, that's so weird that
I, Matt Degroot's getting a phone call on my phone.
See what happens? It doesn't answer.
I'll put a little footnote on the bottom of this.
You know what? Have a read of the show notes of
(19:15):
this episode. I will put in the bottom what
happened on my drive home and whether I spoke to Matt.
I need. To know this.
Too. Poor guy, if he just can't
answer his phone, he's getting ablast.
In the comments. Got more out of this than I was
intending. Apologies.
No, it's, it's good good to talkabout this stuff.
(19:35):
It is. This year's theme is great.
It's celebrating men's and boy, men and boys.
Every year has a theme, same as Nate Week and all of those, they
all have a theme. This year is celebrating men and
boys. So the idea is this year to get
out there and celebrate and let someone know that they matter,
celebrate what they've done. I'm doing it all right.
So on Wednesday I am going to goaround and make those notes like
(19:57):
you did. I can think of Vince, my
mechanic. He'd love a little note like
that just dropped off to him. I probably won't be able to say
the words to anybody because I'man emotional wreck at the
moment. But yeah, think of others as
well. Just go around my son.
And I love that you say that you're doing that too, because
it's, you know, I'm driving it in the way of women doing it.
(20:18):
I love that you're going to takethat on.
I would really want to see guys celebrate other guys.
That's something to me that's really important as well.
I know why there's hesitation indoing it as well, because any
guys out there go and it's International Men's Day.
Let's celebrate the men kind of thing.
You you're really sticking your head up.
Women have got to champion it. We we are the ones we have to
champion it. But it's nice if you guys go and
(20:39):
do what? You guys doing enough and.
And you can go to the old joke in an everyday men's day.
I've had that a lot since I've started champion a few years
ago. Yeah, I've had a lot of people
just go come on, isn't everyday men's day?
I said when? In the 50s maybe, but even then
it probably wasn't either. The pressure to go out and
(21:00):
support the whole family, the pressure to, you know, there
wasn't another person in the house working.
So if we look at all of those different little bits and
pieces, no, it wasn't men's day.We we were disadvantaged in
political senses in all of thosethings, but we weren't always
completely disadvantaged. And even if women were and
(21:21):
absolutely were disadvantaged, men were as well.
Correct. Yeah, that was my point.
Yeah, they were in other ways. The pressure to succeed, to
bring home as much as they possibly could, to create a
comfortable life, robbed them offamily time.
I really believe that's been my biggest thing I think since
doing this podcast and hearing all of all these people's
different point of views on on things is that there's no right
(21:43):
or wrong way with everything. Your circumstances dictate your
opinions, your upbringing, your surroundings, everything shapes
you to be the way you are. And I can totally understand
anyone listening to this and going, what a crock of shit.
Men have had it so good for so long.
God, I wish we didn't have International Men's Day.
(22:05):
And I'm fine with someone feeling like that.
Actually. I am because that's their right
to feel like that and not sayingit in a condescending kind of
sarcastic way or anything. Oh OK, you go feel like that.
That's fine. It's not even like that.
Totally respect. Everyone can feel the way they
feel about whatever topic is sort of how I feel with.
(22:26):
Things And that's how I feel too.
I was told by a few people, you know, you might lose some
friends through, you know, beingas passionate as I am about
this. This all was born from my
husband being in a really huge workplace that International
Women's Day is now InternationalWomen's Week.
So they celebrate and the girls,because there are so few women
in the workplace, they might getsent off to the beautician or
(22:48):
they might have a picnic day or sent out for lunch.
The thousands of men that are inthe business didn't have
anything, not even the date acknowledged.
And my husband pushed for it in his business and he got a
sausage this off on the first year.
And that was a tokenistic. The head of HR of the business
he works for was if you want it to happen, you make it happen.
(23:09):
It wasn't the business or them going.
Hey, that does exist. We do celebrate every other day
in Australia, even cupcake day. It's like, you know, we have
well, doughnut day. We we jump onto every day we
have all of these celebrations. He's got to tie food in to men's
day. That's right, it's.
Got to be 1 particular like the doughnut.
Doughnut Day is associated with it and everyone's on board then,
(23:32):
but. It's funny, isn't it, that we
jump on so many different. I get it, though.
I do get it. You're talking about a business
there, big business with lots ofguys in it.
And then, you know, someone in management goes, we're gonna,
we're gonna celebrate all the men in the workplace.
It's like that's a potential PR nightmare.
It is. Yeah, it is.
But just put on a nice breakfastfull of each year.
(23:52):
Yeah, that was where they used to have a really good initiative
with his business, the business he works for, and it was all
about men's mental health. It was years ago and there was
facilities for them to take on extra counselling, all of those
different things, not just your typical EAP or whatever they
call them these days. It was further than that, but
that all kind of went by the buyer as well.
And then when this was brought to their attention, it's just
(24:13):
one day where they can actually say thanks.
This is thousands of people thatare pretty much running this
business. Yeah, it's a good time to say
thank you. It just needs to be an
acknowledgement. Yeah.
And I'm prepared for the backlash that that does come off
these things. And I'm OK with that.
And I really don't have a problem.
I don't need to sell it to anyone.
To me, I just want to have something that resonates with
other people. If it does make sense to them,
(24:34):
jump on board. Yeah.
You know and. If not, that's OK.
And that's OK. That's fine.
Yeah, it's absolutely OK. Yeah.
I like that what you do for those guys has an impact on
those guys. Yep, a +1 on some people, and I
don't think there's anything wrong with that.
No. And that's how I feel like as I
think if I can impact people in my world, just in my circle, and
(24:56):
if my circle gets bigger and it helps just someone else that I
may not have known that was in trouble.
Through this chat now on Wednesday, Vince, my mechanic,
is going to get a note dropped into him.
He's a lovely bloke, I know it will make his day.
Yeah, well, you don't know what he's going through you.
Don't know what anyone's going through.
I've had four friends take theirown lives in four years.
(25:18):
Yeah, and that highlighted for me.
Two of them. I wouldn't have said I'd expect
it, but I wasn't completely surprised because there was
turmoil. The other two really shocked me.
Yep, really shocked. And I think that to me
highlights that we just need to make guys seen, heard.
Make sure that they know that ifthey're your father, if they're
(25:41):
your husband, if you're your brother and you do feel love for
them in appreciation, go say it.Just it doesn't have to be on
19th of November say at any day,say at any time, but it's that
we are overlooking. Yeah, well, I mean, I just
clicked to what I was saying there myself because I was
saying it, but I only just realized what I'm saying.
You were saying about your circle, and you want to look
(26:02):
after your circle, you'll just do that.
And if it does reach wide, it will.
That thing of me wanting to go to Vince, the thing of me
wanting to call Matt on my way home today, it has.
It's influenced someone already to make me want to do that.
So you keep doing what you're doing.
Yep, I'm passioned about passioned about it and it's got
a ripple effect. Absolutely.
Yep. Yep.
Someone else listening to this will maybe go to their partner
(26:24):
or a guy at their work and just go, you know, you're really
appreciated and I think you do agreat job.
Just because they're a guy doesn't mean you can't say those
things to them. That's right.
Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you so much for jumping inand chatting about this.
I was very nervous about it. Any hate mail?
I'll pop Larissa's e-mail address at the bottom.
He'll create a new one.
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