July 25, 2025 • 35 mins
Transforming Tragedy into Purpose: Youth Mental Health and Mentorship
In this episode of Real Men Feel, host Andy Grant has a heartfelt and hopeful conversation with Chris Coulter, a father, entrepreneur, and advocate for youth mental health. Chris shares his personal journey of grief and transformation after losing his daughter Maddie to suicide. He discusses the impact of his loss on his life and the creation of The Mentor Well, an online mentoring service designed to support young people through life's challenges.
Chris emphasizes the importance of emotional intelligence, vulnerability, and the need for honest conversations to help teens navigate their struggles. He also offers insights into the importance of parental role and the misconceptions around youth mental health and suicide.
00:00 Introduction: Embracing Vulnerability
00:23 Meet Chris Coulter: A Journey of Grief and Action
00:59 The Impact of Loss: Maddie's Story
04:37 The Birth of Mentor Well
07:21 The Role of Mentorship in Youth Mental Health
13:01 Navigating Grief and Finding Purpose
20:33 The Importance of Emotional Intelligence
21:18 Challenges and Misconceptions in Youth Mental Health
22:58 How Mentor Well Works
28:14 Chris Coulter's Personal Growth and Advocacy
34:27 Conclusion: Real Men Feel Community
Connect with Chris
The Mentor Well -- https://www.thementorwell.com/
LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/chriscoulterfinishline/
Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast:
Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @theandygrant
Andy Grant Website | https://theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info!
Real Men Feel Website | http://realmenfeel.org
Authentic AF Community | http://realmenfeel.org/group
YouTube | https://youtube.com/realmenfeel
#RealMenFeel ep 363
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Talking and expressing emoting is a strength, not a weakness,
and that whole unmanly tag is bullshit.
Hello and welcome to Real Men Feel, the show that explores
what it means to be a man in today's world.
I'm your host, Andy Gritt. Today's conversation is both
(00:21):
heartbreaking and hopeful. I'm joined by Chris Coulter,
father, entrepreneur and passionate advocate for youth
mental health. After losing his daughter Maddie
to suicide, Chris made a courageous decision to channel
his grief into action, leading to all his conversations and
creating real change in how we support young people.
He's the founder of the Finish Line Group and the mentor well,
(00:43):
encouraging meaningful conversations, vulnerability and
support. This is a powerful and deeply
human conversation you don't want to miss.
Let's do it. Hello Chris, and welcome to Real
Men Feel. How you doing Andy?
Great to be here. Thanks for joining us today.
I really want to start with asking about your daughter
Maddie. And I know he pretty much
(01:04):
influenced everything that you're doing so.
So tell me a bit about Maddie. So Maddie was my first, first
born. She would have been 25 Tomorrow
I'll I'll tell you from April through till the end of June.
It's kind of my, that's my rough, that's my rough time of
the year. Just because we lost her in
(01:28):
April, then you got Father's Day, which is another tough,
tough day for me. And then kind of culminating
with her birthday on June 28th. So I'll be glad when we're
through this little period of time and not, not you know what?
I'm, I'm very reflective and honor her in every way.
(01:48):
I, I, I can. But, but getting back to your,
to your point, Maddie, Maddie was my first three kids.
I have two boys. And you know what we were, we're
married. We faced challenges that a lot
of, lot of couples face. Ultimately we decided I, I had a
(02:10):
business that did really well for 20 years and we, and then
the financial crisis at 2008 hitand all of a sudden kind of your
stability of income, your nest egg as far as the asset that you
built within the business. All that gets, all that goes
away when you, when you, when you lose a, a business to
(02:32):
bankruptcy and it impacts kind of what your, what your life is
about. So your family, all the things
that you participate in. So that happened in 2010 and
2011. We end up getting separated,
which had a real impact on on Maddie.
(02:52):
And it was it, it was tough and we didn't do things perfectly.
It got ugly. And unfortunately by X wanted to
try to take the kids to Europe. And I said, screw that.
You're not, you're not, you're not leaving.
And it just became a situation where the only ones that win are
(03:13):
the lawyers. And when you, when you, when you
walk away from a business that was your primary asset and that
doesn't exist anymore, We're kind of split nickels here.
So we're not, we're not talking like there was a huge, a huge
amount of of money to fight over.
So at the end of the day, I, there's nothing I wouldn't do
(03:35):
for my kids. And I know they wanted to be in
Canada. Unfortunately, Maddie was kind
of like the pawn that was was used to to leverage moving
versus staying here. I think it was the single
largest contributor to her depression, which ultimately we
(03:57):
lost her when she was 14 years old to suicide.
And that has been and for the next, so that was April 11th,
2015. And for the next 5 years, I
could barely do anything. But I I was forced to.
I was, I started up another business.
(04:20):
Yeah, which you're probably going all right.
Who loses a business, goes through an ass and divorce and
decides to start up another business only to have only to
lose their daughter to suicide. So it's been a it's been a
pretty shitty last 10 years, honestly.
But the interesting thing about grief it if, if you allow it,
(04:42):
allow the possibility reef can transform into something really,
really powerful. And in in Maddie's case, I knew
what the how the system failed us.
And I thought about ways that ifwe were to do it all over again,
how would what would I want it? How would I want it to be done
(05:04):
differently? And that's where this brainchild
of the Mentor Well came into play.
And the Mentor Well is an onlinementoring service that we focus
on kind of kids anywhere from 10to 25 who are, there's not
really anything broken with them.
(05:26):
They're not like been mysterious, facing serious
mental health challenges, but they could be lacking things
like confidence. They don't know.
I don't know about you. When I came out of university, I
think I was more confused than when I went in and I I didn't
know what I wanted to do. There's a lot of kids right now
(05:48):
that are going through that samestuff.
But the other aspect of things, kids are dealing with a lot of a
lot of stuff, whether it's divorce, whether it's if you're
a Toronto Maple Leaf fan and they haven't won in 58 years and
you're wondering, OK, do I have to go through this whole
grieving process every single playoff run that falls well
(06:11):
short of where they should be. Could be not getting into your
university of choice. It could be getting fired from a
job. Grief isn't just the loss of a
person, it's the loss of stuff and how we process it and how we
how we're able to move forward in spite of it.
And that's the mentor Well, is intended to be a safe space for
(06:32):
kids to talk to adults who have been on a similar journey, who
have been, have have ridden thatthat course, who understand what
it's like to fail to understand what it's like to, to not be
your best version of yourself. And that vulnerability.
(06:54):
And that not, not to jump in from a place of trying to fix,
but just trying to listen, trying to, trying to guide as
opposed to steer. And kids need that because
they're dealing with so much stuff that they, they don't,
they don't know how to process it.
They don't have the emotional aptitude to be able to process a
(07:18):
lot of stuff because they've never been taught.
So that's how Mentor Well kind of came to be.
We did a soft launch about 2 1/2months ago and it's just been
like a hockey stick momentum growth since then.
So we are we're ramping up and having some really amazing
(07:43):
conversations with a lot of really amazing people.
And there's a ton of people who are struggling right now and
they're recognizing that, you know what, this is such a unique
service because what we, what wetried to say is we're that
bridge between parenting and therapy.
And parents say that they, well,I'm, I'm a mentor to my kid.
(08:05):
Well, no, you're not there. There is that hierarchical
difference between parents and kids.
And kids feel it even if parentsdon't, and especially when they
actually control the punitive aspect of the relationship,
right. And what happens if you you say,
hey, mom, dad, this happened. I I tried pot and and then I
(08:31):
really appreciate you sharing with me.
But you know what? You're grounded for the next
month. I'm going.
OK, so where do you get rewardedfor sharing and being honest?
So that's why creating that safespace for a kid is really
important because parents will only be told what they want to
hear. Kids will hold the rest of the
(08:54):
stuff really close to their chest and, and, and, and so
they're suppressing it and they're not dealing with it.
And as a consequence, they're not able to process a lot of
their grief, a lot of their confusion, a lot of their anger.
And mentorship is a, is a great vehicle to help them do that.
But the other distinguishing difference for us is we also
(09:15):
want to teach them about the important elements of very, of
varying elements of emotional intelligence.
You know what, if we can fast track their emotional
intelligence growth, it's going to just help them flourish down
the road. Because if EQ is a, is a bigger
determiner of success than IQ is.
(09:37):
And it's a, a learned skill, then you know what, there's
absolutely no downside. And I, if we wait for the
government and for the school systems to, to adapt and to
incorporate some of this stuff into curriculum or into
legislation, we're, we're going to be waiting an awfully long
time. And we're in crisis mode.
(09:58):
Our kids are in crisis mode and numbers have never been higher.
This is a space that I think is is is safe and valuable and it's
and it's something that kids really need today.
Completely agree and I I didn't realize that the metro well was
was this new. So Congrats on getting it up
there and launching and and off to a quick success.
(10:22):
How did losing Maddie change your understanding of mental
health, especially for young people?
I went through with kind of the loss of my business, loss of my
marriage. I, I was always comfortable.
I shouldn't say always. I remember the first time I did
a blog or I did a blog post or Idid something that was
(10:45):
emotionally vulnerable. I kind of, I told, shared my
story about depression. And I think it's, it's relevant
because when I first shared, it was back in 2012, there were not
a lot of people who are sharing that kind of stuff.
And I'd get a lot of personal direct messages from, from
(11:05):
people that I shared my story with.
And they went and thank you for thank you for sharing that
story. We're going through something
very similar. And just it gives us comfort
knowing that we're not alone in dealing with this.
So with regards to Maddie, I recognized kids, kids don't want
(11:26):
to be perceived as broken. And unfortunately, when things
start to kind of go off the rails from a parenting
standpoint, their first, their default setting is, oh, shit,
let's let's get them into therapy.
And kids are like, I don't want to go to a therapist.
I just was just sharing something I'm going through.
(11:48):
And, and sometimes they just need, they just need someone to
talk to. And often they'll refuse to go
to a therapist. So what happens?
Well, there's a bit of they cometo an impasse.
And so the kid is struggling or on the verge of struggling and
yet they have no resources that they're willing to use.
And the parents are kind of at, at, at at a loss.
(12:09):
They don't know where to go. They just know that their kids
not well. And So what we, what we offer is
not an alternative to therapy because therapy absolutely has
their place in, in, in, in our community where I think we're a
great compliment. But before things go to that
next level, mentorship can be a saving ground for a lot of these
(12:35):
kids to help with their confidence, help with their
direction, the resilience and just, you know what?
Get them to a place where they start feeling good about
themselves. They start feeling confident.
Because I think that's the challenge so many of our kids
face today. They just, they don't have that
(12:55):
confidence. They're getting by.
Getting by is not is not flourishing.
You mentioned it that for five years after loss of Maddie you
would barely function. And grief is isolating and
difficult for anybody, but I think especially for men.
So how did you process your loss?
(13:16):
What? What did help you get through
it? It's interesting.
It's kind of a 2 part, 2 part toit.
Initially I, I, I was, I was self-employed.
So for me not getting out of bedwasn't an option.
So I had to force myself every day to get out of bed.
Things that I was able to to do that helped me to barely say
(13:41):
function. Function was things like
gratitude journals, but writing in particular was cathartic for
me. It really helped me to talk
about it. It also helped me to share what
we went through and what a lot of other families are going
through. So it it gave a resource to
(14:01):
other families who didn't necessarily know where to go to.
And the biggest question when someone was going through a
mental health crisis is like, where do I go?
And there's the, it's not well documented.
It's pretty straightforward. If you broke your leg, where do
you go? But when you're navigating all
this mental, this mental stuff, it's not always cut and dry.
(14:25):
There's various diagnosis and where do you get the help?
And there's a huge waiting list and there's a cost and a stigma
associated with that. So that I think that helped by
me talking about what we went through.
I think it helped a lot of otherpeople and helping other people
(14:45):
helps you. So that was the first 555 years,
5-6 years. And then what happens on I'm
going to share a bit of my griefjourney with Andy, if you're OK
with it. So after five years, the fog
starts to lift a little bit. So all the brain fog that you're
encountering, all the sadness, the anger, the overwhelm, it
(15:09):
starts to lift. And you, you think, OK, you
want, you want to change the world.
That was this is mine anyway, this is my journey.
I want to change the world. So I had about 20 things and I
wanted to do them all simultaneously.
And what's the adage about focuson many you accomplish none.
And that was my that was my scenario.
(15:30):
I had all these great ideas and people were like, oh, look at
this, Chris is being able to kind of help people, but they
would Peter out really quick. And, and it was because from a
strategy perspective, it was, itwas important, but on an
execution standpoint, it was really, really, really, really
(15:53):
crappy. And the thing about grief that
I've only recently come to this awareness is when you, when you
are grieving, when you've gone through a traumatic loss, like a
loss of a child, like I went through, you try to get back to
that person that you were. And the and, and The thing is
(16:15):
that person is dead. A person doesn't exist anymore.
You changed into morphed into this other person that is, is
different. It, it, it kind of, it allows
you that ability to be able to move forward and carry it
forward with. So I ended up I, I stepped back
(16:37):
a bit and when I, when I came tothe realization, and I can't
even remember what, when it was,but it was less than a year ago
and I went, what is it that? And, and it was honestly, it was
when I started to embrace the fact that I wasn't going back to
the same person. This was the new Chris Coulter.
(17:00):
That's kind of when I, I, I embraced my new version of
myself and that allowed me to kind of move forward and move
forward in my new self. And, and that's where the mentor
well, came to. And I, and I say this now, yeah,
(17:23):
we've been working on it for about 6 months.
But I've, I've never been more passionate about a project,
about business in my life. I've got an amazing business
partner who is, is, is committeda completely different life
(17:43):
experience than me, but she is at a place where she's got two
teenagers and she knows this is her world that's going to be
unfolding in the next few years.And so we've, we're, we're very
different in, in that regard, but we're very aligned in what,
what the world needs right now. And the more people I talk to,
(18:04):
the more encouragement I get that this is something that is
so needed by our youth today, not only our youth, it's it's
needed by families. So once I came to that, that
realization that the old Chris Coulter is dead and this is the
new Chris Coulter moving forward.
And it was kind of like that, that aha moment where you go,
(18:28):
OK, I'm all right with this. I'll embrace this new version of
myself because honestly, I like them better now anyway.
Yeah, if, if everybody could like themselves more as they
grew and had experiences that that'd be a a great outcome.
Chris, I believe you mentioned that you shared your personal
experiences with depression and that was before losing Maddie.
(18:51):
So was there has there been a history of depression in in the
family? Not necessarily at some I, I've
got a maternal grandmother that's, that had some mental
health challenges, but not, not really.
And, and I think the importance it's, it's not necessarily
(19:12):
genetic. And in my case, it was
situational. I think the realization that you
this business, this nest egg that you had that no longer
exists. And it's that kind of fork in
the road where you have to say, OK, what am I going to do?
At the time I was 45 years old, facing quite a bit of adversity.
And it's like, do I start up, start my whole career up again?
(19:36):
And if so, where do I start? And then on the heels of a
divorce, all that stuff, it piles on top of one another.
And as being males, we're not always the best communicators.
We, we tend to go in Word as opposed to it being expressive.
So it was it it it out. It helped me.
(20:00):
Kind of empathize with what Maddie was going going to go
through eventually, but everyone's journey is different
and the circumstances were different as well.
And I had the emotional capacityto understand for the most part,
what was going, what was going on, whereas she was emotionally
(20:25):
immature just because she hadn'tbeen taught about all these
emotions. What do they mean?
How do you deal with them? How do you process them?
And that's, that's honestly one of the reasons, Andy, that the
emotional intelligence piece of our mentorship program is so
important, because kids need those essential tools to be able
(20:46):
to, to be able to handle life. Because when you hear about kids
who they're failing, let's say they're fail, they fail a test
and they're, and they're, they're thinking about killing
themselves. I'm like, I'm screwed up as
that. Like when you, when you look at
the big picture, that is so that's so offside.
(21:06):
It's so there's something, something in our system.
If our kids believe that that that failing a test warrants an
attempt on one's life, that's that's scary.
What are some of the biggest misconceptions you see around
youth suicide and mental health?The biggest misconception are
(21:28):
parents misinterpreting signs that they chalk it up to oh this
is just teenager stuff. The other the other aspect that
I see is parents put it all on the teenager when they are an
equal culprit in the dysfunctionof the relationship between the
(21:51):
parent and the and the and the teen.
Our kids have the ability to payfor the rough alert others and
and you know what they know? They they know the buttons to
push reaction that they that they expect.
So I think the parents role in in in our kids depression, but
(22:15):
also just looking for looking for less obvious signs and not
necessarily accepting what you're hearing as what they're
feeling. Because the the old adage I'm
fine is basically the modern dayversion of I'm helping, but I
(22:36):
just don't. I I'm hurting but I don't want
to talk about it. The best acronym I've ever heard
from a fine is fucked up, insecure, neurotic, and
emotional and that's the only time it's honest.
We say I'm fine. If they mean that they usually
answer it and honest. So I love how you describe
mentorship as this, this bridge between parenting and therapy.
(22:58):
It it is the mentor experience. Is it all virtual?
Is it in person? Is it is it a hybrid mix?
How? How's?
It work. It's it, it is, it is virtual
for now. And what we try to do is we try
to match mentors and mentees that, that have had similar life
experiences that are going through or maybe a child that
(23:19):
they may be trying to navigate their parents divorced and
they're not sure how. So talking to someone that may
have gone through that or someone that might have a, they,
they might be confused from a sexual orientation perspective.
Like, I don't know how you, how do you deal with that?
It's not like a conversation. You can go to your parents, most
(23:39):
parents and say, listen, this iswhat's going on.
So having that safe space, having that lived experience
that they can draw upon. It could be from a business
perspective, it could be from someone who is thinking about
pursuing an athletic career or maybe they're looking at getting
AD one scholarship and how do they navigate that?
(24:00):
Or someone that might be saddledwith an illness or an, or an
injury facing this different adversity.
There's comfort in, there's comfort in, in other people's
stories. Knowing other people have gone
through it gives, gives kids comfort knowing you know what
(24:21):
they went through it, they endured, they persevered.
And they seem like they're pretty good right now.
So maybe there's maybe this is like a good vehicle for me to
try to help to get beyond what I'm experiencing right now.
If this conversation and what you're offering is resonating
with people, how can people go about becoming mentors and how
(24:44):
to can younger people go about becoming a mentee?
Mentors essentially, you don't have to have a PhD in
psychology. We do have an emotional
intelligence aptitude test because that's that's important.
It's a listen first mentality. We're not looking for someone to
jump in and try to fix them because you know what, if you
(25:04):
want that, you just go talk to your parent and that goes really
well. So from a mentor perspective, if
someone was to get back, it's not a it this, at least for the
time being, this is a for profitventure.
So we pay our mentors and in many, in many cases, they don't
need the, the money. So what we're what we, our, our
(25:26):
vision for this is I don't want this to be a have and have not
service. I want this to be available for,
for, for those who've got money and those who don't.
So what we want to do is, is create a, a foundation to pay
for orchids who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford it.
(25:48):
So that, that's, that's, that's,that's a really important future
piece of and that's honestly that's the piece Maddie, I know
would absolutely insist upon because she was, she was very
kind and very selfless. I that would be something that
she would, she would have absolutely wanted.
(26:08):
So the mentor, well, is kind of Maddie personified and for any
kid like Maddie. So, so people can apply for, to
be a mentor on our website and as as well as a mentee, we have
a, an intake onboarding process.We've got that, that EQ aptitude
(26:31):
test. And then what we do is we want
to see what people are comfortable talking about, what
life experiences had they endured that's they are
comfortable sharing with with someone else who might be
experiencing something similarly.
And mentees as well. Mentees are they're able to they
(26:52):
can join our program. We're looking for a six month
commitment, so every two weeks, so 13 sessions it it is
something for sure that I think once we get some, some momentum,
we're right now we're in Canada,but we wanted to work some of
our platform operating issues just to make sure that we are
(27:16):
are scaling properly. But as soon as I've, I've
already had a ton of interests and expression of interest from
mentees and mentors standpoint from the US, the UK and
Australia. So it's, it's, it's a, it's a,
it's definitely something that'sneeded.
And the beauty of our program, is it something that is
(27:37):
completely scalable as well? So in in this moment of time,
you're only dealing with Canadians.
And that will likely be the casefor the next month.
There's a need and a request in the US We just want to make sure
there's only one. You only get one chance to make
(27:58):
a first impression, right. So we want to make sure that
that we had an operating properly, we have the processes
all ironed out. And then once we're comfortable
with that, that's when the expansion is is going to happen.
Chris, I wonder, has your perception of fatherhood changed
(28:19):
through your loss and your advocacy?
Yeah. Absolutely.
I think it's just how to pair myboys who are 23 and soon to be
20, how they how they navigate things, just how we communicate.
Boys are obviously different than girls, but I I also learned
(28:42):
a lot once we were going throughthe challenges with Maddie.
You, when you realize that what you're doing wrong, like I was
one of those classic, let me jump in and fix the problem.
It it. And when you realize it doesn't
work that way, that's a, that's a, that's a great way to shut
your kid down. Once you come to that
realization, you, you do it kindof deep dive into what's the
(29:07):
best way to communicate with your kids.
So as a as a consequence, the way I communicate with my kids
is much different than it used to be.
And, and unfortunately, it took kind of going through what we
did with Maddie in order for me to realize it.
The challenge is so many parentsare in the exact same situation
and they their default setting is jump and jump in and try to
(29:31):
fix as opposed to kind of shut up and listen.
So that would probably be the single, single biggest change in
how I have how I've, how I parent differently.
And honestly, and that that's a big shift.
It's a big shift and it hit and it's not just my kids, it's it's
(29:53):
my relationships, it's you name it, right?
We're, we're not at least I was not an over talker.
I would probably go in before I would actually be more
expressive. So I think I'm able to have a
more genuine, authentic relationship with people that
(30:14):
mean something in my life. Chris, what's giving you hope
these days? It's.
Giving me hope that the encouragement I'm getting for
what we're doing is, is has beenwidely embraced.
I've we've got people who are really championing what we're
(30:35):
doing. They believe in us
wholeheartedly. And then giving us unbridled
kind of access to information toresources, That's when you kind
of realize that you're onto something.
Then when when there is that genuine following and genuine
belief in what you're doing. I think being on this side of
(30:58):
COVID and we've watched what, what it's done to a number of
our kids, I think we, no one wants to go through that again,
But what we're doing is we're repeating the same patterns.
So we better change it. Otherwise we will whether
there's a, a pandemic or something else, we've created
this, we've created this, this culture where where kids don't
(31:23):
openly talk, they're, they're more connected than they're more
connected than ever, but they'reprobably never been more alone
in, in history than now. So that just having these
awkward conversations, having those difficult conversations,
giving kids the freedom to be able to share openly without
(31:46):
judgements. I, I, I know what we're going to
do is going to save lives. I just hope we can save as many
lives as we can. Yeah, Amen to that.
So Chris, what's the best way for people to learn more about
Mentor Well and possibly get involved?
Our website probably is the bestplace.
(32:08):
It's the mentorwell.com. It's got some pretty cool
interactive tools how to, how tohave those difficult,
emotionally intelligent conversations with your kids.
I, I, I find this, this is something I, I kind of, I
created it online and I've had, I've had like therapists say,
(32:30):
Chris, I love this Teamspeak Teenspeak vehicle that you've
created. I've referred my clients there
and it's just, you know what? It's just making, allowing
parents to have more real conversation with their kids.
And that, that gives me, that gives me hope.
(32:51):
If we can, if we can start thosecommunication, start the
communication earlier and more often and in a less threatened
environment, then I think that is that's, that's what we want
to do. We want to we want to give
access to people who otherwise wouldn't be able to be able to
have it. I'm really excited about where
(33:13):
we're where we're going with this.
Chris, what's one thing that youwish more men knew?
Probably share their vulnerability and acknowledge
that that they're they're dealing with they're dealing
with stuff. And if it's meaningful to them,
it should be meaningful to others.
(33:35):
I think that talking and expressing emoting is a
strength, not a weakness. And that whole unmanly tag is
bullshit. You know what it's not?
It's not stay strong, persevere.It's you know what, acknowledge
(33:56):
what you're feeling. Share it if, if, if you need to
and things will get better. And it doesn't need to start and
end with ourselves. There's there's help out there
and we we need to embrace it andwe need to support one another
too. Awesome.
I really appreciate your vulnerability, your example, and
(34:19):
I look forward to seeing the mentor well become a global
force for good. Thanks so much for joining me.
Thanks, Andy. Appreciate it.
Thank you for listening to this heartfelt episode of Real
Manfield. I want to thank Chris Coulter
for his vulnerability, wisdom, and dedication to transforming
tragedy into purpose. We have a brand new Real
Manfield community. It is called Authentic AF is a
(34:41):
place for you to safely share whatever's going on for you.
Get support. There'll be meditations,
there'll be classes, there'll beall sorts of wonderful stuff.
And if you get in early this summer as a founding member,
you'll have the opportunity to guide what what shows up, how it
best can serve you. So show up.
It is a free community, it will always be free, and I invite you
to come on in, visit realmenfield.org group and until
(35:04):
next time, be good to yourself.
Talking and expressing emoting is a strength, not a weakness,
and that whole unmanly tag is bullshit.
Hello and welcome to Real Men Feel, the show that explores
what it means to be a man in today's world.
I'm your host, Andy Gritt. Today's conversation is both
(00:21):
heartbreaking and hopeful. I'm joined by Chris Coulter,
father, entrepreneur and passionate advocate for youth
mental health. After losing his daughter Maddie
to suicide, Chris made a courageous decision to channel
his grief into action, leading to all his conversations and
creating real change in how we support young people.
He's the founder of the Finish Line Group and the mentor well,
(00:43):
encouraging meaningful conversations, vulnerability and
support. This is a powerful and deeply
human conversation you don't want to miss.
Let's do it. Hello Chris, and welcome to Real
Men Feel. How you doing Andy?
Great to be here. Thanks for joining us today.
I really want to start with asking about your daughter
Maddie. And I know he pretty much
(01:04):
influenced everything that you're doing so.
So tell me a bit about Maddie. So Maddie was my first, first
born. She would have been 25 Tomorrow
I'll I'll tell you from April through till the end of June.
It's kind of my, that's my rough, that's my rough time of
the year. Just because we lost her in
(01:28):
April, then you got Father's Day, which is another tough,
tough day for me. And then kind of culminating
with her birthday on June 28th. So I'll be glad when we're
through this little period of time and not, not you know what?
I'm, I'm very reflective and honor her in every way.
(01:48):
I, I, I can. But, but getting back to your,
to your point, Maddie, Maddie was my first three kids.
I have two boys. And you know what we were, we're
married. We faced challenges that a lot
of, lot of couples face. Ultimately we decided I, I had a
(02:10):
business that did really well for 20 years and we, and then
the financial crisis at 2008 hitand all of a sudden kind of your
stability of income, your nest egg as far as the asset that you
built within the business. All that gets, all that goes
away when you, when you, when you lose a, a business to
(02:32):
bankruptcy and it impacts kind of what your, what your life is
about. So your family, all the things
that you participate in. So that happened in 2010 and
2011. We end up getting separated,
which had a real impact on on Maddie.
(02:52):
And it was it, it was tough and we didn't do things perfectly.
It got ugly. And unfortunately by X wanted to
try to take the kids to Europe. And I said, screw that.
You're not, you're not, you're not leaving.
And it just became a situation where the only ones that win are
(03:13):
the lawyers. And when you, when you, when you
walk away from a business that was your primary asset and that
doesn't exist anymore, We're kind of split nickels here.
So we're not, we're not talking like there was a huge, a huge
amount of of money to fight over.
So at the end of the day, I, there's nothing I wouldn't do
(03:35):
for my kids. And I know they wanted to be in
Canada. Unfortunately, Maddie was kind
of like the pawn that was was used to to leverage moving
versus staying here. I think it was the single
largest contributor to her depression, which ultimately we
(03:57):
lost her when she was 14 years old to suicide.
And that has been and for the next, so that was April 11th,
2015. And for the next 5 years, I
could barely do anything. But I I was forced to.
I was, I started up another business.
(04:20):
Yeah, which you're probably going all right.
Who loses a business, goes through an ass and divorce and
decides to start up another business only to have only to
lose their daughter to suicide. So it's been a it's been a
pretty shitty last 10 years, honestly.
But the interesting thing about grief it if, if you allow it,
(04:42):
allow the possibility reef can transform into something really,
really powerful. And in in Maddie's case, I knew
what the how the system failed us.
And I thought about ways that ifwe were to do it all over again,
how would what would I want it? How would I want it to be done
(05:04):
differently? And that's where this brainchild
of the Mentor Well came into play.
And the Mentor Well is an onlinementoring service that we focus
on kind of kids anywhere from 10to 25 who are, there's not
really anything broken with them.
(05:26):
They're not like been mysterious, facing serious
mental health challenges, but they could be lacking things
like confidence. They don't know.
I don't know about you. When I came out of university, I
think I was more confused than when I went in and I I didn't
know what I wanted to do. There's a lot of kids right now
(05:48):
that are going through that samestuff.
But the other aspect of things, kids are dealing with a lot of a
lot of stuff, whether it's divorce, whether it's if you're
a Toronto Maple Leaf fan and they haven't won in 58 years and
you're wondering, OK, do I have to go through this whole
grieving process every single playoff run that falls well
(06:11):
short of where they should be. Could be not getting into your
university of choice. It could be getting fired from a
job. Grief isn't just the loss of a
person, it's the loss of stuff and how we process it and how we
how we're able to move forward in spite of it.
And that's the mentor Well, is intended to be a safe space for
(06:32):
kids to talk to adults who have been on a similar journey, who
have been, have have ridden thatthat course, who understand what
it's like to fail to understand what it's like to, to not be
your best version of yourself. And that vulnerability.
(06:54):
And that not, not to jump in from a place of trying to fix,
but just trying to listen, trying to, trying to guide as
opposed to steer. And kids need that because
they're dealing with so much stuff that they, they don't,
they don't know how to process it.
They don't have the emotional aptitude to be able to process a
(07:18):
lot of stuff because they've never been taught.
So that's how Mentor Well kind of came to be.
We did a soft launch about 2 1/2months ago and it's just been
like a hockey stick momentum growth since then.
So we are we're ramping up and having some really amazing
(07:43):
conversations with a lot of really amazing people.
And there's a ton of people who are struggling right now and
they're recognizing that, you know what, this is such a unique
service because what we, what wetried to say is we're that
bridge between parenting and therapy.
And parents say that they, well,I'm, I'm a mentor to my kid.
(08:05):
Well, no, you're not there. There is that hierarchical
difference between parents and kids.
And kids feel it even if parentsdon't, and especially when they
actually control the punitive aspect of the relationship,
right. And what happens if you you say,
hey, mom, dad, this happened. I I tried pot and and then I
(08:31):
really appreciate you sharing with me.
But you know what? You're grounded for the next
month. I'm going.
OK, so where do you get rewardedfor sharing and being honest?
So that's why creating that safespace for a kid is really
important because parents will only be told what they want to
hear. Kids will hold the rest of the
(08:54):
stuff really close to their chest and, and, and, and so
they're suppressing it and they're not dealing with it.
And as a consequence, they're not able to process a lot of
their grief, a lot of their confusion, a lot of their anger.
And mentorship is a, is a great vehicle to help them do that.
But the other distinguishing difference for us is we also
(09:15):
want to teach them about the important elements of very, of
varying elements of emotional intelligence.
You know what, if we can fast track their emotional
intelligence growth, it's going to just help them flourish down
the road. Because if EQ is a, is a bigger
determiner of success than IQ is.
(09:37):
And it's a, a learned skill, then you know what, there's
absolutely no downside. And I, if we wait for the
government and for the school systems to, to adapt and to
incorporate some of this stuff into curriculum or into
legislation, we're, we're going to be waiting an awfully long
time. And we're in crisis mode.
(09:58):
Our kids are in crisis mode and numbers have never been higher.
This is a space that I think is is is safe and valuable and it's
and it's something that kids really need today.
Completely agree and I I didn't realize that the metro well was
was this new. So Congrats on getting it up
there and launching and and off to a quick success.
(10:22):
How did losing Maddie change your understanding of mental
health, especially for young people?
I went through with kind of the loss of my business, loss of my
marriage. I, I was always comfortable.
I shouldn't say always. I remember the first time I did
a blog or I did a blog post or Idid something that was
(10:45):
emotionally vulnerable. I kind of, I told, shared my
story about depression. And I think it's, it's relevant
because when I first shared, it was back in 2012, there were not
a lot of people who are sharing that kind of stuff.
And I'd get a lot of personal direct messages from, from
(11:05):
people that I shared my story with.
And they went and thank you for thank you for sharing that
story. We're going through something
very similar. And just it gives us comfort
knowing that we're not alone in dealing with this.
So with regards to Maddie, I recognized kids, kids don't want
(11:26):
to be perceived as broken. And unfortunately, when things
start to kind of go off the rails from a parenting
standpoint, their first, their default setting is, oh, shit,
let's let's get them into therapy.
And kids are like, I don't want to go to a therapist.
I just was just sharing something I'm going through.
(11:48):
And, and sometimes they just need, they just need someone to
talk to. And often they'll refuse to go
to a therapist. So what happens?
Well, there's a bit of they cometo an impasse.
And so the kid is struggling or on the verge of struggling and
yet they have no resources that they're willing to use.
And the parents are kind of at, at, at at a loss.
(12:09):
They don't know where to go. They just know that their kids
not well. And So what we, what we offer is
not an alternative to therapy because therapy absolutely has
their place in, in, in, in our community where I think we're a
great compliment. But before things go to that
next level, mentorship can be a saving ground for a lot of these
(12:35):
kids to help with their confidence, help with their
direction, the resilience and just, you know what?
Get them to a place where they start feeling good about
themselves. They start feeling confident.
Because I think that's the challenge so many of our kids
face today. They just, they don't have that
(12:55):
confidence. They're getting by.
Getting by is not is not flourishing.
You mentioned it that for five years after loss of Maddie you
would barely function. And grief is isolating and
difficult for anybody, but I think especially for men.
So how did you process your loss?
(13:16):
What? What did help you get through
it? It's interesting.
It's kind of a 2 part, 2 part toit.
Initially I, I, I was, I was self-employed.
So for me not getting out of bedwasn't an option.
So I had to force myself every day to get out of bed.
Things that I was able to to do that helped me to barely say
(13:41):
function. Function was things like
gratitude journals, but writing in particular was cathartic for
me. It really helped me to talk
about it. It also helped me to share what
we went through and what a lot of other families are going
through. So it it gave a resource to
(14:01):
other families who didn't necessarily know where to go to.
And the biggest question when someone was going through a
mental health crisis is like, where do I go?
And there's the, it's not well documented.
It's pretty straightforward. If you broke your leg, where do
you go? But when you're navigating all
this mental, this mental stuff, it's not always cut and dry.
(14:25):
There's various diagnosis and where do you get the help?
And there's a huge waiting list and there's a cost and a stigma
associated with that. So that I think that helped by
me talking about what we went through.
I think it helped a lot of otherpeople and helping other people
(14:45):
helps you. So that was the first 555 years,
5-6 years. And then what happens on I'm
going to share a bit of my griefjourney with Andy, if you're OK
with it. So after five years, the fog
starts to lift a little bit. So all the brain fog that you're
encountering, all the sadness, the anger, the overwhelm, it
(15:09):
starts to lift. And you, you think, OK, you
want, you want to change the world.
That was this is mine anyway, this is my journey.
I want to change the world. So I had about 20 things and I
wanted to do them all simultaneously.
And what's the adage about focuson many you accomplish none.
And that was my that was my scenario.
(15:30):
I had all these great ideas and people were like, oh, look at
this, Chris is being able to kind of help people, but they
would Peter out really quick. And, and it was because from a
strategy perspective, it was, itwas important, but on an
execution standpoint, it was really, really, really, really
(15:53):
crappy. And the thing about grief that
I've only recently come to this awareness is when you, when you
are grieving, when you've gone through a traumatic loss, like a
loss of a child, like I went through, you try to get back to
that person that you were. And the and, and The thing is
(16:15):
that person is dead. A person doesn't exist anymore.
You changed into morphed into this other person that is, is
different. It, it, it kind of, it allows
you that ability to be able to move forward and carry it
forward with. So I ended up I, I stepped back
(16:37):
a bit and when I, when I came tothe realization, and I can't
even remember what, when it was,but it was less than a year ago
and I went, what is it that? And, and it was honestly, it was
when I started to embrace the fact that I wasn't going back to
the same person. This was the new Chris Coulter.
(17:00):
That's kind of when I, I, I embraced my new version of
myself and that allowed me to kind of move forward and move
forward in my new self. And, and that's where the mentor
well, came to. And I, and I say this now, yeah,
(17:23):
we've been working on it for about 6 months.
But I've, I've never been more passionate about a project,
about business in my life. I've got an amazing business
partner who is, is, is committeda completely different life
(17:43):
experience than me, but she is at a place where she's got two
teenagers and she knows this is her world that's going to be
unfolding in the next few years.And so we've, we're, we're very
different in, in that regard, but we're very aligned in what,
what the world needs right now. And the more people I talk to,
(18:04):
the more encouragement I get that this is something that is
so needed by our youth today, not only our youth, it's it's
needed by families. So once I came to that, that
realization that the old Chris Coulter is dead and this is the
new Chris Coulter moving forward.
And it was kind of like that, that aha moment where you go,
(18:28):
OK, I'm all right with this. I'll embrace this new version of
myself because honestly, I like them better now anyway.
Yeah, if, if everybody could like themselves more as they
grew and had experiences that that'd be a a great outcome.
Chris, I believe you mentioned that you shared your personal
experiences with depression and that was before losing Maddie.
(18:51):
So was there has there been a history of depression in in the
family? Not necessarily at some I, I've
got a maternal grandmother that's, that had some mental
health challenges, but not, not really.
And, and I think the importance it's, it's not necessarily
(19:12):
genetic. And in my case, it was
situational. I think the realization that you
this business, this nest egg that you had that no longer
exists. And it's that kind of fork in
the road where you have to say, OK, what am I going to do?
At the time I was 45 years old, facing quite a bit of adversity.
And it's like, do I start up, start my whole career up again?
(19:36):
And if so, where do I start? And then on the heels of a
divorce, all that stuff, it piles on top of one another.
And as being males, we're not always the best communicators.
We, we tend to go in Word as opposed to it being expressive.
So it was it it it out. It helped me.
(20:00):
Kind of empathize with what Maddie was going going to go
through eventually, but everyone's journey is different
and the circumstances were different as well.
And I had the emotional capacityto understand for the most part,
what was going, what was going on, whereas she was emotionally
(20:25):
immature just because she hadn'tbeen taught about all these
emotions. What do they mean?
How do you deal with them? How do you process them?
And that's, that's honestly one of the reasons, Andy, that the
emotional intelligence piece of our mentorship program is so
important, because kids need those essential tools to be able
(20:46):
to, to be able to handle life. Because when you hear about kids
who they're failing, let's say they're fail, they fail a test
and they're, and they're, they're thinking about killing
themselves. I'm like, I'm screwed up as
that. Like when you, when you look at
the big picture, that is so that's so offside.
(21:06):
It's so there's something, something in our system.
If our kids believe that that that failing a test warrants an
attempt on one's life, that's that's scary.
What are some of the biggest misconceptions you see around
youth suicide and mental health?The biggest misconception are
(21:28):
parents misinterpreting signs that they chalk it up to oh this
is just teenager stuff. The other the other aspect that
I see is parents put it all on the teenager when they are an
equal culprit in the dysfunctionof the relationship between the
(21:51):
parent and the and the and the teen.
Our kids have the ability to payfor the rough alert others and
and you know what they know? They they know the buttons to
push reaction that they that they expect.
So I think the parents role in in in our kids depression, but
(22:15):
also just looking for looking for less obvious signs and not
necessarily accepting what you're hearing as what they're
feeling. Because the the old adage I'm
fine is basically the modern dayversion of I'm helping, but I
(22:36):
just don't. I I'm hurting but I don't want
to talk about it. The best acronym I've ever heard
from a fine is fucked up, insecure, neurotic, and
emotional and that's the only time it's honest.
We say I'm fine. If they mean that they usually
answer it and honest. So I love how you describe
mentorship as this, this bridge between parenting and therapy.
(22:58):
It it is the mentor experience. Is it all virtual?
Is it in person? Is it is it a hybrid mix?
How? How's?
It work. It's it, it is, it is virtual
for now. And what we try to do is we try
to match mentors and mentees that, that have had similar life
experiences that are going through or maybe a child that
(23:19):
they may be trying to navigate their parents divorced and
they're not sure how. So talking to someone that may
have gone through that or someone that might have a, they,
they might be confused from a sexual orientation perspective.
Like, I don't know how you, how do you deal with that?
It's not like a conversation. You can go to your parents, most
(23:39):
parents and say, listen, this iswhat's going on.
So having that safe space, having that lived experience
that they can draw upon. It could be from a business
perspective, it could be from someone who is thinking about
pursuing an athletic career or maybe they're looking at getting
AD one scholarship and how do they navigate that?
(24:00):
Or someone that might be saddledwith an illness or an, or an
injury facing this different adversity.
There's comfort in, there's comfort in, in other people's
stories. Knowing other people have gone
through it gives, gives kids comfort knowing you know what
(24:21):
they went through it, they endured, they persevered.
And they seem like they're pretty good right now.
So maybe there's maybe this is like a good vehicle for me to
try to help to get beyond what I'm experiencing right now.
If this conversation and what you're offering is resonating
with people, how can people go about becoming mentors and how
(24:44):
to can younger people go about becoming a mentee?
Mentors essentially, you don't have to have a PhD in
psychology. We do have an emotional
intelligence aptitude test because that's that's important.
It's a listen first mentality. We're not looking for someone to
jump in and try to fix them because you know what, if you
(25:04):
want that, you just go talk to your parent and that goes really
well. So from a mentor perspective, if
someone was to get back, it's not a it this, at least for the
time being, this is a for profitventure.
So we pay our mentors and in many, in many cases, they don't
need the, the money. So what we're what we, our, our
(25:26):
vision for this is I don't want this to be a have and have not
service. I want this to be available for,
for, for those who've got money and those who don't.
So what we want to do is, is create a, a foundation to pay
for orchids who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford it.
(25:48):
So that, that's, that's, that's,that's a really important future
piece of and that's honestly that's the piece Maddie, I know
would absolutely insist upon because she was, she was very
kind and very selfless. I that would be something that
she would, she would have absolutely wanted.
(26:08):
So the mentor, well, is kind of Maddie personified and for any
kid like Maddie. So, so people can apply for, to
be a mentor on our website and as as well as a mentee, we have
a, an intake onboarding process.We've got that, that EQ aptitude
(26:31):
test. And then what we do is we want
to see what people are comfortable talking about, what
life experiences had they endured that's they are
comfortable sharing with with someone else who might be
experiencing something similarly.
And mentees as well. Mentees are they're able to they
(26:52):
can join our program. We're looking for a six month
commitment, so every two weeks, so 13 sessions it it is
something for sure that I think once we get some, some momentum,
we're right now we're in Canada,but we wanted to work some of
our platform operating issues just to make sure that we are
(27:16):
are scaling properly. But as soon as I've, I've
already had a ton of interests and expression of interest from
mentees and mentors standpoint from the US, the UK and
Australia. So it's, it's, it's a, it's a,
it's definitely something that'sneeded.
And the beauty of our program, is it something that is
(27:37):
completely scalable as well? So in in this moment of time,
you're only dealing with Canadians.
And that will likely be the casefor the next month.
There's a need and a request in the US We just want to make sure
there's only one. You only get one chance to make
(27:58):
a first impression, right. So we want to make sure that
that we had an operating properly, we have the processes
all ironed out. And then once we're comfortable
with that, that's when the expansion is is going to happen.
Chris, I wonder, has your perception of fatherhood changed
(28:19):
through your loss and your advocacy?
Yeah. Absolutely.
I think it's just how to pair myboys who are 23 and soon to be
20, how they how they navigate things, just how we communicate.
Boys are obviously different than girls, but I I also learned
(28:42):
a lot once we were going throughthe challenges with Maddie.
You, when you realize that what you're doing wrong, like I was
one of those classic, let me jump in and fix the problem.
It it. And when you realize it doesn't
work that way, that's a, that's a, that's a great way to shut
your kid down. Once you come to that
realization, you, you do it kindof deep dive into what's the
(29:07):
best way to communicate with your kids.
So as a as a consequence, the way I communicate with my kids
is much different than it used to be.
And, and unfortunately, it took kind of going through what we
did with Maddie in order for me to realize it.
The challenge is so many parentsare in the exact same situation
and they their default setting is jump and jump in and try to
(29:31):
fix as opposed to kind of shut up and listen.
So that would probably be the single, single biggest change in
how I have how I've, how I parent differently.
And honestly, and that that's a big shift.
It's a big shift and it hit and it's not just my kids, it's it's
(29:53):
my relationships, it's you name it, right?
We're, we're not at least I was not an over talker.
I would probably go in before I would actually be more
expressive. So I think I'm able to have a
more genuine, authentic relationship with people that
(30:14):
mean something in my life. Chris, what's giving you hope
these days? It's.
Giving me hope that the encouragement I'm getting for
what we're doing is, is has beenwidely embraced.
I've we've got people who are really championing what we're
(30:35):
doing. They believe in us
wholeheartedly. And then giving us unbridled
kind of access to information toresources, That's when you kind
of realize that you're onto something.
Then when when there is that genuine following and genuine
belief in what you're doing. I think being on this side of
(30:58):
COVID and we've watched what, what it's done to a number of
our kids, I think we, no one wants to go through that again,
But what we're doing is we're repeating the same patterns.
So we better change it. Otherwise we will whether
there's a, a pandemic or something else, we've created
this, we've created this, this culture where where kids don't
(31:23):
openly talk, they're, they're more connected than they're more
connected than ever, but they'reprobably never been more alone
in, in history than now. So that just having these
awkward conversations, having those difficult conversations,
giving kids the freedom to be able to share openly without
(31:46):
judgements. I, I, I know what we're going to
do is going to save lives. I just hope we can save as many
lives as we can. Yeah, Amen to that.
So Chris, what's the best way for people to learn more about
Mentor Well and possibly get involved?
Our website probably is the bestplace.
(32:08):
It's the mentorwell.com. It's got some pretty cool
interactive tools how to, how tohave those difficult,
emotionally intelligent conversations with your kids.
I, I, I find this, this is something I, I kind of, I
created it online and I've had, I've had like therapists say,
(32:30):
Chris, I love this Teamspeak Teenspeak vehicle that you've
created. I've referred my clients there
and it's just, you know what? It's just making, allowing
parents to have more real conversation with their kids.
And that, that gives me, that gives me hope.
(32:51):
If we can, if we can start thosecommunication, start the
communication earlier and more often and in a less threatened
environment, then I think that is that's, that's what we want
to do. We want to we want to give
access to people who otherwise wouldn't be able to be able to
have it. I'm really excited about where
(33:13):
we're where we're going with this.
Chris, what's one thing that youwish more men knew?
Probably share their vulnerability and acknowledge
that that they're they're dealing with they're dealing
with stuff. And if it's meaningful to them,
it should be meaningful to others.
(33:35):
I think that talking and expressing emoting is a
strength, not a weakness. And that whole unmanly tag is
bullshit. You know what it's not?
It's not stay strong, persevere.It's you know what, acknowledge
(33:56):
what you're feeling. Share it if, if, if you need to
and things will get better. And it doesn't need to start and
end with ourselves. There's there's help out there
and we we need to embrace it andwe need to support one another
too. Awesome.
I really appreciate your vulnerability, your example, and
(34:19):
I look forward to seeing the mentor well become a global
force for good. Thanks so much for joining me.
Thanks, Andy. Appreciate it.
Thank you for listening to this heartfelt episode of Real
Manfield. I want to thank Chris Coulter
for his vulnerability, wisdom, and dedication to transforming
tragedy into purpose. We have a brand new Real
Manfield community. It is called Authentic AF is a
(34:41):
place for you to safely share whatever's going on for you.
Get support. There'll be meditations,
there'll be classes, there'll beall sorts of wonderful stuff.
And if you get in early this summer as a founding member,
you'll have the opportunity to guide what what shows up, how it
best can serve you. So show up.
It is a free community, it will always be free, and I invite you
to come on in, visit realmenfield.org group and until
(35:04):
next time, be good to yourself.
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