July 4, 2025 • 29 mins
The Power of Men's Groups: Healing, Growth, and Brotherhood with Nicky Billou
In this episode of Real Men Feel, Andy Grant interviews Nicky Billou, a prolific podcast guest and advocate for men's growth. Nicky shares his transformative journey following a devastating divorce, highlighting how men's groups helped him heal and grow. The discussion explores the significance of male-only spaces, the benefits of serving others, and the importance of personal investment in self-development.
Nicky also talks about the founding of his men's organization, the Sovereign Man, and the impact of robust, supportive group dynamics on men's lives. Key lessons include the significance of strong support networks for men, the three M's (mind, muscle, and money), and the critical need for men to challenge and push each other toward growth.
00:00 Welcome to Real Men Feel
00:35 Introducing Nicky Ballou: Advocate for Men's Growth
01:20 Nicky's Journey Through Divorce and Healing
02:06 The Power of Men's Groups
06:47 Creating and Leading Men's Organizations
10:07 The Importance of Investing in Yourself
13:59 Reclaiming Masculinity and Avoiding Stereotypes
16:29 The Role of Physical Vitality in Men's Growth
19:03 The Impact of Men's Groups on Personal Success
22:39 Nicky's Vision for Men's Work and Legacy
23:25 Final Thoughts and How to Connect
28:34 Conclusion and Invitation to Join Authentic AF
Connect with Nicky
Nicky Billou -- https://www.sovereignman.ca/
Facebook -- https://facebook.com/thethoughtleaderrevolution
Instagram -- https://instagram.com/nickybillou
LinkedIn -- https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickybillou/
Resources
No More Mr. Nice Guy author Robert Glover on Real Men Feel -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-VKOPmuWKA&t=6s
The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari by Robin Sharma -- https://amzn.to/45UJfyY
Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast:
Book a Clarity Call with Andy and get clear on your goals, what's in your way, and what you can do about it at https://theandygrant.com/talk
Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @theandygrant
Andy Grant Website | https://theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info!
Real Men Feel Website | http://realmenfeel.org
RMF Community | http://realmenfeel.org/group
YouTube | https://youtube.com/realmenfeel
#RealMenFeel ep 360
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Real Men Feel.
I'm your host, author, coach andhealer Andy Grant.
If you're a man who's done with pretending, ready to drop the
masks and wants real connection with other growth minded men, I
invite you to check out my new online community, Authentic AF.
No algorithms, no posturing, just real talk and real support.
(00:22):
Learn more and request to join at realmenfeel.org/group Here on
Real, Men feel we have conversations that most men are
not having, but that all men andthe women who love them can
benefit from. Today, we're diving into the
power of brotherhood, resilience, and reclaiming
masculinity with Nikki Balu. Nikki is a passionate advocate
(00:44):
for men's growth, leadership, and healing.
After navigating a painful divorce, he found strength
through a men's group, and that experience changed his life.
Now, Nikki helps men rise into their purpose, power, and
potential. We'll explore men's health,
success, vulnerability, and whatit really means to be a man in
(01:05):
today's world. Let's do it.
Hello Nikki, and welcome to REALMen Feel.
Handyman, thanks for having me on the show.
It's an honor to be here. Yeah, I'm very excited for this
because you have, you might be the most prolific podcast guest
I've I've come across in my 6 years of doing this.
But when we first spoke, you mentioned your divorce was a big
turning point for you. Yeah.
(01:26):
What was the darkest moment in that time and how did you get
through it? Well, I was completely
blindsided. I had no idea she intended to do
any of this, and maybe I should have seen it coming, but I sure
as heck didn't. And I spiraled, man I spiraled.
I wasn't allowed to talk to her,see her, talk to my kids, see my
(01:49):
kids. I'll sleep on my mother's couch.
My business just went into a tailspin.
And there was a period during that where I just didn't even
know if I wanted to continue. Not that I wanted to end things
or anything like that, it just didn't look good.
What got me out of it was other men.
(02:10):
A woman I knew who was close to our family, like an aunt to my
kids, told me, I know a man who helps men that are going through
relationship crisis and I'm going to introduce you to him.
And she did. And I started attending group
and I started doing one-on-one sessions with this guy.
(02:30):
And I was feeling horrible. But every time I met with him,
every time I went and sat in Group, I felt a little less for
them. And one of the things he said to
me is that men can only really heal their pain with other men.
You know, at first it sounded like some gay shit to me, like
(02:51):
what you talking about. But it was clear that it wasn't
gay shit. It was a reality of our
experiences. Men throughout history.
Women are wonderful. And, you know, having a family
with a woman and kids is wonderful, that they're really
great, but they they aren't men.They can't understand how we
(03:12):
think, how we operate, and they don't know how to help us with
our pain. I mean, they can give us a hug.
They can tell us they love us. But it takes another man to
really understand our pain and pull the arrow out and help us
heal. And that's what happened from
2010, straight through. I was in this man's group for
(03:32):
two years and then I joined another group wasn't as well or
professionally run, but it it, it had other strengths.
And honestly, from 2010 till today, I don't think there's
been a period that I haven't been in a group.
I've either been in a group or been running group.
And if you're a man and you're listening to this and your life
isn't where you want it to be, maybe you're going through a
(03:54):
divorce, maybe you're going through, I don't know,
addiction, drugs, alcohol, porn,whatever, you will not get it
done on your own. You need the company of men,
good men, not just any old idiotthat'll help get you through and
onto the other side, into that. What were some of the biggest
(04:16):
lessons you learned about yourself in the last 15 years of
this? Well, you know what really
helped me heal was being focusedon helping other men.
When I took the the attention off of me, what was me?
Look at how horrible my life is.I put my attention on other men
and saying whoa, there's a lot of men that are doing as badly
(04:36):
or worse than I am. That's when I really started to
heal fast. Cool.
Yeah, that's something that wasn't.
I didn't realize it growing up, at least maybe it was told to
me. But how helpful service is to to
my own healing. And I think that's one of the
big things that comes out of a men's group that might might
surprise most participants that they're enjoying helping their
(04:56):
brothers. Yeah, yeah.
Well said. Actually, really well said.
What do you think too many men are missing when they're going
through a divorce or a loss of some sort?
Well, they're trying to do it bythemselves, right?
They're not, you know, they'll go call a lawyer or whatever,
but they're not with a group of other men.
They're not being held up when they sack, you know, and I say
(05:22):
this to men, you need men. I interviewed Doctor Robert
Glover on my podcast. He's the author of the book No
More Mr. Nice Guy. And he said to me, most men
don't know that what they're craving, what they're missing is
masculine only spaces. Let me think about that.
(05:43):
Masculine only spaces. We need that, man.
It doesn't exist. And we need that.
We need a place where we can letour hair down, where we can be
men, right? And when we have that, we
instantly recognize the value and validity of it.
Like this weekend, I'm going to a men's overnight.
(06:04):
There's a man who has some property like a farm with lots
of acreage and we're taking sometents, we're pitching our tents
and we're going to have an overnight.
I think that's that's freaking amazing.
You know, we're going to have fun, we're going to horse
around, we're going to talk about some serious shit.
(06:25):
We're going to get things done. The the name of a poet.
Maybe you organize this quote, but he has this line that there
was a certain song that men's cells sing that other men must
hear. I I don't know that I don't
know. OK, it's always sucked me some.
Someday I'll look it up. If it sucked me with enough to
remember it, I should look so I know.
Who's saying look it up right after, right after this
(06:46):
interview? So you know, you mentioned since
2010 you've been in a group or leading a group.
So what inspired you to create your own men's organization?
Well, the group that I was in was good and in some ways even
great, but it was also quite political and there were dudes
(07:09):
that were wanting to run it justto be king shit in Turdville,
you know what I mean? It wasn't necessarily about
doing what was best for men. And I ran against one of these
men and the men voted him in andthey voted me out.
And I was shocked. I'm like, there is no freaking
way I lost to this dude. And when I sat and thought about
(07:32):
it, I go look, if these men wanted this man, that's their
right. They get to choose.
But I don't want to be with these type of men.
I want to be with men that are more concerned about growth.
So I left that group and I called up one of my buddies and
I said, let's start with one group.
And so we did. And that was in 2018.
(07:55):
And ever since then we've been running our own group.
And in January of 2022, we decided to start charging for
it. We're not charging a lot of
money. It's 100 bucks a month plus tax.
But we felt that if you charge men, they'd take it more
seriously than if it was free. And we've gotten to the point
(08:20):
where we got a lot of men that are members of the screw that
are paying for being a member ofthis group.
And they're showing up strong. They're doing the work.
And so it was a good decision tocharge.
It's a good decision because I didn't have to, you know, take
on all the expenses myself. That was that part was good.
(08:42):
But it was also a good decision for them because it meant they
showed up ready to act. I just hired a coach and he, he
helps you leverage relationshipsto generate business.
One of the best in the world at it.
I'm pretty good at it, but he's way better than I am at it.
(09:06):
And you know, having this man bemy coach is pretty darn awesome.
What's really awesome about it is that I'm paying him a lot of
money. And because I'm paying him a lot
of money, I'm showing up a certain way in this program.
And believe you me, I'm showing up ready for rolls.
(09:30):
I'm showing up intending to get a return on my investment,
intending to get a multiple return on my investment, and I'm
showing up taking responsibilityfor getting that multiple return
on my investment. I'm not just leaning back
waiting for him to give me stuff.
I'm like, all right, what's it going to take to get that going?
Yeah. So that's the tale.
(09:51):
Yeah, investing in things just it proves what your priorities
are. So if if you're a man that's
never invested in himself, that says sadly a lot.
It does, it does. Unfortunately, too many men have
not invested in themselves and if you one of my clients back in
the day was Robin Sharma who wrote the multi million selling
(10:13):
book The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari.
You've never read that book, Andy, you need to read that
book. You need to go on Amazon, order
it and read it right away. It is a phenomenal book.
Sold 15,000,000 copies. OK, so man, man wrote a good
book. I was his fitness trainer.
(10:34):
This was 17 years ago and I saidto him, I said, hey Robin, you
help people with success. How can I double my income this
year? He said, well, that's simple,
Nikki. I said, OK, we'll check.
He said all you have to do is triple your investment in your
own personal professional development.
I said triple. He said, yeah.
(10:55):
I said why? He said that's easy.
You're the easily the most important asset in your life and
in your business. Businesses invest in assets to
improve them and get a return all the time.
You're the most important asset in your business.
Ergo you'll need and should get the most investment.
So if you want to do better, themost important asset, you must
(11:17):
be better. You won't do better if you don't
get better. And for that you have to invest.
You got to hire coaches, you gotto join masterminds, you got to
attend conferences, do courses, read books.
So I, he said, how much did you invest in yourself last year?
And I said, $5000, right? I, I, I, I was in a program and
(11:38):
I was in a mastermind of sorts. He said triple it.
I go, OK, I will. And I did.
And he was right. I over doubled my income.
I almost tripled my income that year, you know, because I became
better. And in your experience, what
happens to a man who finds a a safe, committed space of other
(12:00):
men for the first time? What, what, what happens to that
man? Well, that's a really good
question because, you know, he'sable to let his mask slip, tell
the truth maybe for the first time, and then he's able to get
feedback. Now, you got to understand you
need to be in a group where there's a fine balance struck
(12:22):
between men that won't use what you said against you or like,
try to hammer you before, right?And men who won't push you
because, I don't know, No judgement.
OK, I got news for you. This no judgement bullshit is
the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life.
I'm sorry. I judge people and things all
(12:43):
the time. If you're a pedophile, I'm
judging your ass and not well. There's no no judgement there,
all right? If you cheat on your wife, I'm
judging your ass, OK and not well.
Now, am I going to come in a group if you reveal that to all
of us and say you're a piece of shit?
No, I'm not going to do that. But I'd be lying if I told you
(13:04):
it wouldn't make me think twice about trusting you because, you
know, Ross Perot said, if your wife can't trust you, why should
I? And I think he's right, right?
I think he's right. And there's a difference between
judging a man because we all do that and we should do that, and
making him wrong. You know what I'm saying here?
(13:27):
Because when a man's in a group,he's got to, he's got to feel
that he can say whatever he needs to say, including some
heavy nasty shit, right? So making him wrong for what
he's sharing. We can't have that.
But like, if he just told you, hey man, I, I just cheated on my
wife, the 218 year old hookers. If you pretend like that's OK, I
(13:53):
think you're doing that man a disservice, right?
You're going on nasty. How can men reclaim their
masculine essence without falling into possibly harmful
stereotypes? What do you mean by that?
I'm I'm not sure the harmful possible.
What's a possible harmful stereotype?
(14:14):
Well, let's see some old tropes.The So the oldest trope I think
of is a stoic man that does everything by himself.
Right, Sonny, 'cause you alreadysaid no man can do it all
himself. They need support.
And Stoics didn't do everything by themselves, by the way.
I mean, it's a it's it's a joke.Don't just, you know, they just
encourage each other to not be pussies, right?
(14:38):
Yeah. But anyone who thinks that
Stoics were alone, like Marcus Aurelius, you know, the founder
of the Stoics school, certainly didn't do anything by himself.
I mean, you know, he was possibly Rome's greatest emperor
and he also had the most number of strong men around him to help
him conquer foreign lands and govern the empire.
(14:59):
So I think this whole thing of the, the, the strong silent type
is fine. I, I, I think there's a lot to
be said for a man not oversharing.
After all, we're, we're men and we're not women.
But I, I, I think there's also alot to be said for a man who
knows how to ask for help. And if you don't know how to ask
(15:20):
for help, I actually don't thinkthat's masculine.
I don't think that's masculine. Very boyish, tell you the truth.
Do you think it's possible for aman to overshare within a men's
group environment? Well, it depends.
So if he's got to just let it all out out of something he's
dealing with, then no. But if he's one of these verbal
(15:41):
diarrhea dudes who doesn't know how to shut up about anything,
that hell yeah. We've had some of those around
our circle. We had the standard.
We called truth quickly. Get to the point quickly.
Like, don't, don't tell us the history of your life.
Tell us what the issue is and we'll help you.
But you know, so tell us what's going on.
We tell the man and then he'll go.
(16:01):
Well, you know, when I was sevenyears old, my mom slapped me and
that had a really bad effect on me because I don't like anyone.
That's I mean, dude, shut up already.
What happened? What happened?
Well, I have to tell you that now.
You don't. You don't need to hear it.
We really don't need to hear it.We just need to know what's
going on now. Cheated on your wife and you're
blaming it on your mom slapping you when you were seven?
(16:24):
That's the BS you try to feed us.
You mentioned earlier that you were a personal trainer.
How does the role of physical vitality and discipline show up
in a man's emotional or spiritual growth?
I have not been a personal trainer since 2012.
So I was a personal trainer no longer.
(16:44):
I am, I think a man. You know, there's a, there's a
woman on Instagram who has a channel called Dana Disagrees
and she's a pro patriarchy woman.
So I love her to pieces man. She's great and she talks about
the three M's that all men have to have.
And I really like the three M's.So that's why I'm I'm, I'm, I'm
(17:06):
going to, I'm going to tell you about the three M's right now.
She's the 1st is mine. You got to have a strong
mindset. The second is muscle.
That means you got to look afteryourself and be physically fit.
If you're not, you're not reallya man if you can be pushed
around physically. And the third is money.
You got to take care of your money because if you don't do
that, there's a problem is a real problem, right?
(17:30):
You won't be able to look after your family.
So I say this to the men that are listening in.
Have your three Ms. under control.
And if you don't get with a goodgroup of men, you know, it can
be a Bible based group, it can be a secular group.
What matters is that you're withmen that are good men that are,
(17:50):
that are, that got your back, but also are going to push you
out of your comfort zone. Because if you stay in your
comfort zone, your toast. Yeah.
So it's not a support group in the sense of whatever you do is
OK. It's men that will challenge you
have a have at least a degree ofjudgement allowed there.
Yeah, yeah. You see this why I don't like
the word support group because to me, like, listen, my woman's
(18:13):
been in women's groups, right? And there are support groups and
they're great for women because women need that.
They need to just emote and speak and have other women go,
oh, that's so great, you're so brave, blah, blah, blah.
That's wonderful for women. That is not wonderful for men.
A man does not need to emote on his emotions.
A man needs to be kicked out of his complacency into action.
(18:35):
That is what makes us men succeed.
If you are stuck in anywhere in your life, the best thing you
can do is get unstuck. Not talk about it forever, but
get unstuck. That doesn't mean don't talk
about it at all. You should talk about it with
your man. There's some things you got to
think through and figure out, but there should be a finite
(18:55):
amount of time associated. We're talking about it, and
there should be a lot of time associated with taking action to
solve it. What advice would you give a man
who's feeling alone and resistant to just still
resistant to this whole joining a group sort of thing?
Look, I'm not here to tell anybody they have to do
something or don't have to do something.
(19:15):
All I can tell you is for me andthe men that have been in groups
that I've been in it, it's been the most positive, beneficial
thing. I've made more money because of
being in Group. Like a lot more money.
So if making more money is important to you, joining your
group will help you make a lot more money.
And Andy, I'm sure you agree with this, right?
Men that are in Group are more successful, make more cash.
That's the bottom line. If you're married, you're in a
(19:37):
relationship, your relationship with your woman will get better.
You'll be happier, they'll be less stress because of you being
in a group and frankly, she'll fuck you more.
And you know, last I checked, most men like that idea, right?
You show up a certain way, your woman's going to be more into,
into you and is going to give you more sex.
And that's a good thing, right? And if you're, if you're single,
you know, and you want to stay single, it'll help you be good
(19:59):
at attracting women. And if you're single and, and
you want to find the one, it'll help you be the sort of man who
can attract the one. And finally, man, it'll, it'll
push you out of your comfort zone so you become mentally.
Physically stronger, tougher menin our group, man.
They're, they've been dudes who came in our group, fat as fuck,
(20:22):
who are now like physical beasts, specimens, you know what
I mean? They've been men who come in our
group broke on welfare, who now run six and seven figure
businesses. And they've been dudes who come
in our group, like with 0 skillswith women, OK, like 0 skills
with women who are now like beating them off with a stick,
(20:42):
you know? And they've been dudes that have
come in our group whose relationship with their wife was
like, not good. They're not not going well, not
getting sex. Now it's it's good they're
getting lots of sex. And I don't know, if I were you
as a man, I'd want all of those things.
Do you do you suggest or find inin your groups that it's best to
(21:03):
have a wide range of ages or should you know 20 year olds be
in Group with 20 year olds? No, no wide range of ages is
good man, because young men can learn from elders and elders can
learn from young men. Energy that the young can bring
to a group of elder men that'll get them out of there can place.
Oh, I'm going to answer 54. Fuck off being around these
(21:25):
young guys, take some of their energy, get out there and do
your thing. And some of these young dudes
need to be told some harsh truths that you know other young
men aren't going to tell them. And do you find that can?
To. Perform at its best?
Is a men's group best in person or remote?
Or can both work? What?
What's your experience there? Look, in person is obviously the
(21:45):
gold standard, right? Like if you can have an in
person situation, that's really fantastic.
But our group right now is primarily a, a remote group.
We meet on Zoom, we have people from all over.
I live in Toronto. A lot of the men are from
Toronto, but we have some folks that are from places like
Oklahoma, Florida, Northern Ontario, like, you know, it's,
(22:13):
it's good to create a space for all these men to be.
Now we go out of our way to makeit possible for men to come and
be together a few times a year. So this weekend coming up, we're
doing the overnight in July, we do one of our annual kick off
meetings. Those are in person for most of
the men show up in person for those.
But both can work. And the most important thing is
(22:36):
that you're with men, men you can trust.
That's the most important thing.Nikki, and any thoughts to what
you hope your legacy is when it comes to men's work?
You know, I got a vision where we're living in a time again
where men, manhood and masculinity are revered the way
they used to be. With my men's group, I, I want
to, I want to, I want to create our movement to be 1010 thousand
(23:00):
men strong. And I want other men like me to
create movements of 1010 thousand men strong.
And I think there need to be at least 10,100 thousand men like
me doing what we do, because otherwise, you know, masculinity
has no chance. What's one thing you wish more
men knew? That there's men out there who
(23:23):
give a shit. Beautiful.
So Nikki, what's the best way for people to learn more about
you and about the the groups you're offering?
So our website is Sovereign Man sovereignman.ca and to our
podcast is on that website you can find out about our our
(23:43):
programs. The Sovereign Circle program is
our main program. This is where you can find out
about how to be a part of something with other men.
We offer a complimentary meetingto any man like you want to come
see who we are, what we're all about.
You can come to a complimentary meeting.
(24:03):
All you got to do is reach out to me.
And the best way to reach out tome, just find me anywhere on
social media and say, you know, and there's also like a, like a
forum where contact us on the Sovereign man.ca.
Just go in there and say I'm interested in coming to a
meeting. We'll hook you up, check it out,
see if it's something you want to do.
I just want more men to come to these types of meetings and be
(24:25):
at these meetings. These meetings are life changing
has. There been a transformation from
a man in in one of your groups that has surprised even you.
Well, I can't say I get surprised, but I'm, I'm always
gratified to see some of the transformations.
I mean, we had a man join us in 2021 who was literally on
(24:47):
welfare, on welfare. And within less than a year he
had a business. He had a business making six
diggers. Just recently got married to a
really beautiful woman, actuallyIranian woman from my culture,
and he's got more work than he can handle.
(25:08):
It's a good problem to have. Nick, I know that you're an
immigrant, and not just in the US, but in a lot of places these
days, a lot of countries seem tobe blaming immigrants for
everything. So I just wonder, as someone
that is such a successful business person, human being,
man immigrant, you know, how does seeing this kind of tie
(25:30):
turning against immigration, how, how, how does that hit you?
Well, I I don't quite see it as turning against immigration, but
rather against illegal immigration, like immigration
without permission. That because in in certainly in
my country, Canada, we're not against immigration and we have
a robust immigration tradition and we want to see legal through
(25:58):
the channels immigration continue.
We have a problem with people that are line jumpers, right?
And we also have a problem with,you know, human traffickers
being allowed to bring people into the country basically for
sex slavery. We had a problem with that.
That shouldn't be allowed. And we have a problem with
people in government that are cynically letting this happen,
(26:22):
letting these young girls and even young boys be molested and
and brutalized, traumatized. And I think people have every
right to tell their government to have a sensible immigration
policy. Canada would not be Canada
(26:43):
without immigrants. the United States would not exist without
immigrants. There's no question about both
of those facts. But I can tell you in Canada, we
used to have 200,000 immigrants a year.
Then Trudeau 4 years ago decidedto up that number to a million a
year. At the time, Canada had 36
million people. That's insanity.
You can't handle a million people a year, five straight
(27:05):
years. That's an insane number of
people to allow into your country.
And many of them, unfortunately,have been not the best folks.
They've been a lot of people that have come in that are
members of transnational criminal gangs.
So Toronto has always been the safest big city in the world.
It's no longer that. I mean, there's carjackings that
(27:27):
are through the roof. There's home invasions at a
level that is insane and these are criminal gangs that have
through this illegal immigrationturn the other way system made
their way into Canada and are laughing their asses off taking
advantage of our of our system here.
So from my point of view, I'd like to see that stop.
(27:50):
I'd like to see it go back to the system that existed prior to
2021 in Canada where we vet immigrants and we let in the
best people. It's my family came in here with
money to invest, to start a business, to employ Canadians.
And that's how we ought to be bringing in immigrants.
We ought to be bringing in the best of the best people that are
wanting to come here and build something and all that.
(28:11):
And we go back to that. Canada is going to have its cold
in age again. Nikki, wanna thank you so much,
not just for joining me today, but for the service, the holding
space for men, the encouraging men to step up because what I
think the need the world is in drastic need of is more men on
purpose realize their strength and aren't afraid to use it.
(28:33):
Amen. Thanks for listening to Real Men
Feel. I hope something in today's
episode landed with you. If you're craving more real
talk, more support, more connection with men who are
walking the same path of growth,come join us in Authentic AF, my
new online community. Visit realmenfeel.org/group to
learn more and request to join. If you enjoyed this episode,
(28:56):
please follow review, share it with somebody else who needs it
and until next time. Be good to yourself.
Hello and welcome to Real Men Feel.
I'm your host, author, coach andhealer Andy Grant.
If you're a man who's done with pretending, ready to drop the
masks and wants real connection with other growth minded men, I
invite you to check out my new online community, Authentic AF.
No algorithms, no posturing, just real talk and real support.
(00:22):
Learn more and request to join at realmenfeel.org/group Here on
Real, Men feel we have conversations that most men are
not having, but that all men andthe women who love them can
benefit from. Today, we're diving into the
power of brotherhood, resilience, and reclaiming
masculinity with Nikki Balu. Nikki is a passionate advocate
(00:44):
for men's growth, leadership, and healing.
After navigating a painful divorce, he found strength
through a men's group, and that experience changed his life.
Now, Nikki helps men rise into their purpose, power, and
potential. We'll explore men's health,
success, vulnerability, and whatit really means to be a man in
(01:05):
today's world. Let's do it.
Hello Nikki, and welcome to REALMen Feel.
Handyman, thanks for having me on the show.
It's an honor to be here. Yeah, I'm very excited for this
because you have, you might be the most prolific podcast guest
I've I've come across in my 6 years of doing this.
But when we first spoke, you mentioned your divorce was a big
turning point for you. Yeah.
(01:26):
What was the darkest moment in that time and how did you get
through it? Well, I was completely
blindsided. I had no idea she intended to do
any of this, and maybe I should have seen it coming, but I sure
as heck didn't. And I spiraled, man I spiraled.
I wasn't allowed to talk to her,see her, talk to my kids, see my
(01:49):
kids. I'll sleep on my mother's couch.
My business just went into a tailspin.
And there was a period during that where I just didn't even
know if I wanted to continue. Not that I wanted to end things
or anything like that, it just didn't look good.
What got me out of it was other men.
(02:10):
A woman I knew who was close to our family, like an aunt to my
kids, told me, I know a man who helps men that are going through
relationship crisis and I'm going to introduce you to him.
And she did. And I started attending group
and I started doing one-on-one sessions with this guy.
(02:30):
And I was feeling horrible. But every time I met with him,
every time I went and sat in Group, I felt a little less for
them. And one of the things he said to
me is that men can only really heal their pain with other men.
You know, at first it sounded like some gay shit to me, like
(02:51):
what you talking about. But it was clear that it wasn't
gay shit. It was a reality of our
experiences. Men throughout history.
Women are wonderful. And, you know, having a family
with a woman and kids is wonderful, that they're really
great, but they they aren't men.They can't understand how we
(03:12):
think, how we operate, and they don't know how to help us with
our pain. I mean, they can give us a hug.
They can tell us they love us. But it takes another man to
really understand our pain and pull the arrow out and help us
heal. And that's what happened from
2010, straight through. I was in this man's group for
(03:32):
two years and then I joined another group wasn't as well or
professionally run, but it it, it had other strengths.
And honestly, from 2010 till today, I don't think there's
been a period that I haven't been in a group.
I've either been in a group or been running group.
And if you're a man and you're listening to this and your life
isn't where you want it to be, maybe you're going through a
(03:54):
divorce, maybe you're going through, I don't know,
addiction, drugs, alcohol, porn,whatever, you will not get it
done on your own. You need the company of men,
good men, not just any old idiotthat'll help get you through and
onto the other side, into that. What were some of the biggest
(04:16):
lessons you learned about yourself in the last 15 years of
this? Well, you know what really
helped me heal was being focusedon helping other men.
When I took the the attention off of me, what was me?
Look at how horrible my life is.I put my attention on other men
and saying whoa, there's a lot of men that are doing as badly
(04:36):
or worse than I am. That's when I really started to
heal fast. Cool.
Yeah, that's something that wasn't.
I didn't realize it growing up, at least maybe it was told to
me. But how helpful service is to to
my own healing. And I think that's one of the
big things that comes out of a men's group that might might
surprise most participants that they're enjoying helping their
(04:56):
brothers. Yeah, yeah.
Well said. Actually, really well said.
What do you think too many men are missing when they're going
through a divorce or a loss of some sort?
Well, they're trying to do it bythemselves, right?
They're not, you know, they'll go call a lawyer or whatever,
but they're not with a group of other men.
They're not being held up when they sack, you know, and I say
(05:22):
this to men, you need men. I interviewed Doctor Robert
Glover on my podcast. He's the author of the book No
More Mr. Nice Guy. And he said to me, most men
don't know that what they're craving, what they're missing is
masculine only spaces. Let me think about that.
(05:43):
Masculine only spaces. We need that, man.
It doesn't exist. And we need that.
We need a place where we can letour hair down, where we can be
men, right? And when we have that, we
instantly recognize the value and validity of it.
Like this weekend, I'm going to a men's overnight.
(06:04):
There's a man who has some property like a farm with lots
of acreage and we're taking sometents, we're pitching our tents
and we're going to have an overnight.
I think that's that's freaking amazing.
You know, we're going to have fun, we're going to horse
around, we're going to talk about some serious shit.
(06:25):
We're going to get things done. The the name of a poet.
Maybe you organize this quote, but he has this line that there
was a certain song that men's cells sing that other men must
hear. I I don't know that I don't
know. OK, it's always sucked me some.
Someday I'll look it up. If it sucked me with enough to
remember it, I should look so I know.
Who's saying look it up right after, right after this
(06:46):
interview? So you know, you mentioned since
2010 you've been in a group or leading a group.
So what inspired you to create your own men's organization?
Well, the group that I was in was good and in some ways even
great, but it was also quite political and there were dudes
(07:09):
that were wanting to run it justto be king shit in Turdville,
you know what I mean? It wasn't necessarily about
doing what was best for men. And I ran against one of these
men and the men voted him in andthey voted me out.
And I was shocked. I'm like, there is no freaking
way I lost to this dude. And when I sat and thought about
(07:32):
it, I go look, if these men wanted this man, that's their
right. They get to choose.
But I don't want to be with these type of men.
I want to be with men that are more concerned about growth.
So I left that group and I called up one of my buddies and
I said, let's start with one group.
And so we did. And that was in 2018.
(07:55):
And ever since then we've been running our own group.
And in January of 2022, we decided to start charging for
it. We're not charging a lot of
money. It's 100 bucks a month plus tax.
But we felt that if you charge men, they'd take it more
seriously than if it was free. And we've gotten to the point
(08:20):
where we got a lot of men that are members of the screw that
are paying for being a member ofthis group.
And they're showing up strong. They're doing the work.
And so it was a good decision tocharge.
It's a good decision because I didn't have to, you know, take
on all the expenses myself. That was that part was good.
(08:42):
But it was also a good decision for them because it meant they
showed up ready to act. I just hired a coach and he, he
helps you leverage relationshipsto generate business.
One of the best in the world at it.
I'm pretty good at it, but he's way better than I am at it.
(09:06):
And you know, having this man bemy coach is pretty darn awesome.
What's really awesome about it is that I'm paying him a lot of
money. And because I'm paying him a lot
of money, I'm showing up a certain way in this program.
And believe you me, I'm showing up ready for rolls.
(09:30):
I'm showing up intending to get a return on my investment,
intending to get a multiple return on my investment, and I'm
showing up taking responsibilityfor getting that multiple return
on my investment. I'm not just leaning back
waiting for him to give me stuff.
I'm like, all right, what's it going to take to get that going?
Yeah. So that's the tale.
(09:51):
Yeah, investing in things just it proves what your priorities
are. So if if you're a man that's
never invested in himself, that says sadly a lot.
It does, it does. Unfortunately, too many men have
not invested in themselves and if you one of my clients back in
the day was Robin Sharma who wrote the multi million selling
(10:13):
book The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari.
You've never read that book, Andy, you need to read that
book. You need to go on Amazon, order
it and read it right away. It is a phenomenal book.
Sold 15,000,000 copies. OK, so man, man wrote a good
book. I was his fitness trainer.
(10:34):
This was 17 years ago and I saidto him, I said, hey Robin, you
help people with success. How can I double my income this
year? He said, well, that's simple,
Nikki. I said, OK, we'll check.
He said all you have to do is triple your investment in your
own personal professional development.
I said triple. He said, yeah.
(10:55):
I said why? He said that's easy.
You're the easily the most important asset in your life and
in your business. Businesses invest in assets to
improve them and get a return all the time.
You're the most important asset in your business.
Ergo you'll need and should get the most investment.
So if you want to do better, themost important asset, you must
(11:17):
be better. You won't do better if you don't
get better. And for that you have to invest.
You got to hire coaches, you gotto join masterminds, you got to
attend conferences, do courses, read books.
So I, he said, how much did you invest in yourself last year?
And I said, $5000, right? I, I, I, I was in a program and
(11:38):
I was in a mastermind of sorts. He said triple it.
I go, OK, I will. And I did.
And he was right. I over doubled my income.
I almost tripled my income that year, you know, because I became
better. And in your experience, what
happens to a man who finds a a safe, committed space of other
(12:00):
men for the first time? What, what, what happens to that
man? Well, that's a really good
question because, you know, he'sable to let his mask slip, tell
the truth maybe for the first time, and then he's able to get
feedback. Now, you got to understand you
need to be in a group where there's a fine balance struck
(12:22):
between men that won't use what you said against you or like,
try to hammer you before, right?And men who won't push you
because, I don't know, No judgement.
OK, I got news for you. This no judgement bullshit is
the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life.
I'm sorry. I judge people and things all
(12:43):
the time. If you're a pedophile, I'm
judging your ass and not well. There's no no judgement there,
all right? If you cheat on your wife, I'm
judging your ass, OK and not well.
Now, am I going to come in a group if you reveal that to all
of us and say you're a piece of shit?
No, I'm not going to do that. But I'd be lying if I told you
(13:04):
it wouldn't make me think twice about trusting you because, you
know, Ross Perot said, if your wife can't trust you, why should
I? And I think he's right, right?
I think he's right. And there's a difference between
judging a man because we all do that and we should do that, and
making him wrong. You know what I'm saying here?
(13:27):
Because when a man's in a group,he's got to, he's got to feel
that he can say whatever he needs to say, including some
heavy nasty shit, right? So making him wrong for what
he's sharing. We can't have that.
But like, if he just told you, hey man, I, I just cheated on my
wife, the 218 year old hookers. If you pretend like that's OK, I
(13:53):
think you're doing that man a disservice, right?
You're going on nasty. How can men reclaim their
masculine essence without falling into possibly harmful
stereotypes? What do you mean by that?
I'm I'm not sure the harmful possible.
What's a possible harmful stereotype?
(14:14):
Well, let's see some old tropes.The So the oldest trope I think
of is a stoic man that does everything by himself.
Right, Sonny, 'cause you alreadysaid no man can do it all
himself. They need support.
And Stoics didn't do everything by themselves, by the way.
I mean, it's a it's it's a joke.Don't just, you know, they just
encourage each other to not be pussies, right?
(14:38):
Yeah. But anyone who thinks that
Stoics were alone, like Marcus Aurelius, you know, the founder
of the Stoics school, certainly didn't do anything by himself.
I mean, you know, he was possibly Rome's greatest emperor
and he also had the most number of strong men around him to help
him conquer foreign lands and govern the empire.
(14:59):
So I think this whole thing of the, the, the strong silent type
is fine. I, I, I think there's a lot to
be said for a man not oversharing.
After all, we're, we're men and we're not women.
But I, I, I think there's also alot to be said for a man who
knows how to ask for help. And if you don't know how to ask
(15:20):
for help, I actually don't thinkthat's masculine.
I don't think that's masculine. Very boyish, tell you the truth.
Do you think it's possible for aman to overshare within a men's
group environment? Well, it depends.
So if he's got to just let it all out out of something he's
dealing with, then no. But if he's one of these verbal
(15:41):
diarrhea dudes who doesn't know how to shut up about anything,
that hell yeah. We've had some of those around
our circle. We had the standard.
We called truth quickly. Get to the point quickly.
Like, don't, don't tell us the history of your life.
Tell us what the issue is and we'll help you.
But you know, so tell us what's going on.
We tell the man and then he'll go.
(16:01):
Well, you know, when I was sevenyears old, my mom slapped me and
that had a really bad effect on me because I don't like anyone.
That's I mean, dude, shut up already.
What happened? What happened?
Well, I have to tell you that now.
You don't. You don't need to hear it.
We really don't need to hear it.We just need to know what's
going on now. Cheated on your wife and you're
blaming it on your mom slapping you when you were seven?
(16:24):
That's the BS you try to feed us.
You mentioned earlier that you were a personal trainer.
How does the role of physical vitality and discipline show up
in a man's emotional or spiritual growth?
I have not been a personal trainer since 2012.
So I was a personal trainer no longer.
(16:44):
I am, I think a man. You know, there's a, there's a
woman on Instagram who has a channel called Dana Disagrees
and she's a pro patriarchy woman.
So I love her to pieces man. She's great and she talks about
the three M's that all men have to have.
And I really like the three M's.So that's why I'm I'm, I'm, I'm
(17:06):
going to, I'm going to tell you about the three M's right now.
She's the 1st is mine. You got to have a strong
mindset. The second is muscle.
That means you got to look afteryourself and be physically fit.
If you're not, you're not reallya man if you can be pushed
around physically. And the third is money.
You got to take care of your money because if you don't do
that, there's a problem is a real problem, right?
(17:30):
You won't be able to look after your family.
So I say this to the men that are listening in.
Have your three Ms. under control.
And if you don't get with a goodgroup of men, you know, it can
be a Bible based group, it can be a secular group.
What matters is that you're withmen that are good men that are,
(17:50):
that are, that got your back, but also are going to push you
out of your comfort zone. Because if you stay in your
comfort zone, your toast. Yeah.
So it's not a support group in the sense of whatever you do is
OK. It's men that will challenge you
have a have at least a degree ofjudgement allowed there.
Yeah, yeah. You see this why I don't like
the word support group because to me, like, listen, my woman's
(18:13):
been in women's groups, right? And there are support groups and
they're great for women because women need that.
They need to just emote and speak and have other women go,
oh, that's so great, you're so brave, blah, blah, blah.
That's wonderful for women. That is not wonderful for men.
A man does not need to emote on his emotions.
A man needs to be kicked out of his complacency into action.
(18:35):
That is what makes us men succeed.
If you are stuck in anywhere in your life, the best thing you
can do is get unstuck. Not talk about it forever, but
get unstuck. That doesn't mean don't talk
about it at all. You should talk about it with
your man. There's some things you got to
think through and figure out, but there should be a finite
(18:55):
amount of time associated. We're talking about it, and
there should be a lot of time associated with taking action to
solve it. What advice would you give a man
who's feeling alone and resistant to just still
resistant to this whole joining a group sort of thing?
Look, I'm not here to tell anybody they have to do
something or don't have to do something.
(19:15):
All I can tell you is for me andthe men that have been in groups
that I've been in it, it's been the most positive, beneficial
thing. I've made more money because of
being in Group. Like a lot more money.
So if making more money is important to you, joining your
group will help you make a lot more money.
And Andy, I'm sure you agree with this, right?
Men that are in Group are more successful, make more cash.
That's the bottom line. If you're married, you're in a
(19:37):
relationship, your relationship with your woman will get better.
You'll be happier, they'll be less stress because of you being
in a group and frankly, she'll fuck you more.
And you know, last I checked, most men like that idea, right?
You show up a certain way, your woman's going to be more into,
into you and is going to give you more sex.
And that's a good thing, right? And if you're, if you're single,
you know, and you want to stay single, it'll help you be good
(19:59):
at attracting women. And if you're single and, and
you want to find the one, it'll help you be the sort of man who
can attract the one. And finally, man, it'll, it'll
push you out of your comfort zone so you become mentally.
Physically stronger, tougher menin our group, man.
They're, they've been dudes who came in our group, fat as fuck,
(20:22):
who are now like physical beasts, specimens, you know what
I mean? They've been men who come in our
group broke on welfare, who now run six and seven figure
businesses. And they've been dudes who come
in our group, like with 0 skillswith women, OK, like 0 skills
with women who are now like beating them off with a stick,
(20:42):
you know? And they've been dudes that have
come in our group whose relationship with their wife was
like, not good. They're not not going well, not
getting sex. Now it's it's good they're
getting lots of sex. And I don't know, if I were you
as a man, I'd want all of those things.
Do you do you suggest or find inin your groups that it's best to
(21:03):
have a wide range of ages or should you know 20 year olds be
in Group with 20 year olds? No, no wide range of ages is
good man, because young men can learn from elders and elders can
learn from young men. Energy that the young can bring
to a group of elder men that'll get them out of there can place.
Oh, I'm going to answer 54. Fuck off being around these
(21:25):
young guys, take some of their energy, get out there and do
your thing. And some of these young dudes
need to be told some harsh truths that you know other young
men aren't going to tell them. And do you find that can?
To. Perform at its best?
Is a men's group best in person or remote?
Or can both work? What?
What's your experience there? Look, in person is obviously the
(21:45):
gold standard, right? Like if you can have an in
person situation, that's really fantastic.
But our group right now is primarily a, a remote group.
We meet on Zoom, we have people from all over.
I live in Toronto. A lot of the men are from
Toronto, but we have some folks that are from places like
Oklahoma, Florida, Northern Ontario, like, you know, it's,
(22:13):
it's good to create a space for all these men to be.
Now we go out of our way to makeit possible for men to come and
be together a few times a year. So this weekend coming up, we're
doing the overnight in July, we do one of our annual kick off
meetings. Those are in person for most of
the men show up in person for those.
But both can work. And the most important thing is
(22:36):
that you're with men, men you can trust.
That's the most important thing.Nikki, and any thoughts to what
you hope your legacy is when it comes to men's work?
You know, I got a vision where we're living in a time again
where men, manhood and masculinity are revered the way
they used to be. With my men's group, I, I want
to, I want to, I want to create our movement to be 1010 thousand
(23:00):
men strong. And I want other men like me to
create movements of 1010 thousand men strong.
And I think there need to be at least 10,100 thousand men like
me doing what we do, because otherwise, you know, masculinity
has no chance. What's one thing you wish more
men knew? That there's men out there who
(23:23):
give a shit. Beautiful.
So Nikki, what's the best way for people to learn more about
you and about the the groups you're offering?
So our website is Sovereign Man sovereignman.ca and to our
podcast is on that website you can find out about our our
(23:43):
programs. The Sovereign Circle program is
our main program. This is where you can find out
about how to be a part of something with other men.
We offer a complimentary meetingto any man like you want to come
see who we are, what we're all about.
You can come to a complimentary meeting.
(24:03):
All you got to do is reach out to me.
And the best way to reach out tome, just find me anywhere on
social media and say, you know, and there's also like a, like a
forum where contact us on the Sovereign man.ca.
Just go in there and say I'm interested in coming to a
meeting. We'll hook you up, check it out,
see if it's something you want to do.
I just want more men to come to these types of meetings and be
(24:25):
at these meetings. These meetings are life changing
has. There been a transformation from
a man in in one of your groups that has surprised even you.
Well, I can't say I get surprised, but I'm, I'm always
gratified to see some of the transformations.
I mean, we had a man join us in 2021 who was literally on
(24:47):
welfare, on welfare. And within less than a year he
had a business. He had a business making six
diggers. Just recently got married to a
really beautiful woman, actuallyIranian woman from my culture,
and he's got more work than he can handle.
(25:08):
It's a good problem to have. Nick, I know that you're an
immigrant, and not just in the US, but in a lot of places these
days, a lot of countries seem tobe blaming immigrants for
everything. So I just wonder, as someone
that is such a successful business person, human being,
man immigrant, you know, how does seeing this kind of tie
(25:30):
turning against immigration, how, how, how does that hit you?
Well, I I don't quite see it as turning against immigration, but
rather against illegal immigration, like immigration
without permission. That because in in certainly in
my country, Canada, we're not against immigration and we have
a robust immigration tradition and we want to see legal through
(25:58):
the channels immigration continue.
We have a problem with people that are line jumpers, right?
And we also have a problem with,you know, human traffickers
being allowed to bring people into the country basically for
sex slavery. We had a problem with that.
That shouldn't be allowed. And we have a problem with
people in government that are cynically letting this happen,
(26:22):
letting these young girls and even young boys be molested and
and brutalized, traumatized. And I think people have every
right to tell their government to have a sensible immigration
policy. Canada would not be Canada
(26:43):
without immigrants. the United States would not exist without
immigrants. There's no question about both
of those facts. But I can tell you in Canada, we
used to have 200,000 immigrants a year.
Then Trudeau 4 years ago decidedto up that number to a million a
year. At the time, Canada had 36
million people. That's insanity.
You can't handle a million people a year, five straight
(27:05):
years. That's an insane number of
people to allow into your country.
And many of them, unfortunately,have been not the best folks.
They've been a lot of people that have come in that are
members of transnational criminal gangs.
So Toronto has always been the safest big city in the world.
It's no longer that. I mean, there's carjackings that
(27:27):
are through the roof. There's home invasions at a
level that is insane and these are criminal gangs that have
through this illegal immigrationturn the other way system made
their way into Canada and are laughing their asses off taking
advantage of our of our system here.
So from my point of view, I'd like to see that stop.
(27:50):
I'd like to see it go back to the system that existed prior to
2021 in Canada where we vet immigrants and we let in the
best people. It's my family came in here with
money to invest, to start a business, to employ Canadians.
And that's how we ought to be bringing in immigrants.
We ought to be bringing in the best of the best people that are
wanting to come here and build something and all that.
(28:11):
And we go back to that. Canada is going to have its cold
in age again. Nikki, wanna thank you so much,
not just for joining me today, but for the service, the holding
space for men, the encouraging men to step up because what I
think the need the world is in drastic need of is more men on
purpose realize their strength and aren't afraid to use it.
(28:33):
Amen. Thanks for listening to Real Men
Feel. I hope something in today's
episode landed with you. If you're craving more real
talk, more support, more connection with men who are
walking the same path of growth,come join us in Authentic AF, my
new online community. Visit realmenfeel.org/group to
learn more and request to join. If you enjoyed this episode,
(28:56):
please follow review, share it with somebody else who needs it
and until next time. Be good to yourself.
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