March 18, 2025 • 33 mins
What if discipleship isn't just another Christian buzzword but the very essence of following Jesus? In this profound conversation with Steven David (known online as Sahil the Disciple), we unpack what it truly means to be a disciple in today's complex world.
Steven offers a refreshingly simple yet powerful definition of discipleship as "the art of obedience" - learning to follow Jesus in every aspect of life. Drawing from scripture, particularly John 15 and Matthew 28, he illuminates how abiding in Christ forms the foundation of all discipleship efforts. "Without Jesus, if I am not connected to the Lord Jesus Christ, I can't do anything," Steven explains, highlighting our dependence on divine connection.
For those experiencing spiritual dryness, Steven offers compelling wisdom about continuing spiritual practices even when emotions wane. Using marriage as an analogy, he emphasizes that just as spouses don't abandon their relationship during emotional lulls, we shouldn't abandon our spiritual disciplines during desert seasons.
Whether you're a new believer seeking guidance, a seasoned Christian mentoring others, or someone navigating a spiritually dry season, this conversation offers practical wisdom for authentic discipleship in today's world. Connect with Steven @SahiltheDisciple on social platforms where he continues to share insights on theology, relationships, and Christian living.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome and thanks for tuning in to Real People,
real Talk, relevantconversations that take you from
surviving to thriving.
This is the podcast that goesthere.
My name is Paul Calcoat and I'myour host.
Now let's talk.
Hello, thriver, and welcome toReal People, real Talk, the
(00:38):
podcast ministry that equips youto thrive spiritually,
relationally and mentally, andtoday's episode is all about
thriving in your walk with theLord.
As we're going to talk about allthings, discipleship.
Before I introduce my guest, Iwant to share two of my favorite
discipleship quotes.
The first one by Leif Hetland.
He says If you're not followingJesus, you're not really a
disciple.
(00:59):
The second one, by DallasWillard, says Discipleship is
the process of becoming whoJesus will be if he was you.
My guest today, stephen David,also known as Sahil the disciple
on TikTok and Instagram, is adeacon and a law student who
loves Jesus and is committed toserving him through the practice
of law and through the localchurch.
(01:19):
A former campus missionary,stephen has had the opportunity
to work with and discipleseveral college and high school
students over the last few years.
He firmly believes that God canbe glorified both through the
church and also through one'scareer, and I agree with that.
He seeks to encourage all touse their gifts for the glory of
God.
Welcome to the show, stephen.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Thank you so much, Paul.
A pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Well, first things first.
Stephen, tell us how would youdefine discipleship in your own
words?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think discipleship reallyjust gets down to abiding with
Jesus Christ, right, and youknow, when we're talking about
discipleship generally, in somesense a lot of dictionaries
might define it as following amaster or following a teacher.
But yeah, you know, obviouslyin the context of Christianity I
would say, yeah, it's abidingwith and learning the ways and
(02:13):
teachings of the Lord JesusChrist, and so that's kind of a
simple definition.
I know we'll probably teasethat out a little bit more, but
that's probably the simpledefinition I'd give.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Definitely.
I love that.
It's something that we canbuild upon, and could you just
share some of your favoritescriptures or biblical examples?
That's related to discipleship.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
I mean, this one might be alittle bit of an unusual one,
but I really just think of John,chapter 15, where Jesus talks
about being the vine, and it'sin verse five.
He says you know, I am the vine, you are the branches.
If you remain in me and I inyou, you will bear much fruit,
and apart from me, you can donothing.
(02:52):
So that's one where it's justlike hey, without Jesus, if I am
not connected to the Lord,jesus Christ, I can't do
anything, I'm not going to be asuccessful disciple, I'm not
going to be a successfulChristian.
So that's one of the first onesthat I think about.
Some other scriptures that Ilook at is, you know, matthew 28
(03:13):
, the Great Commission, whereJesus says go, therefore, and
make disciples of all nations.
So he says go, make disciples.
And then he gives kind of themission of the disciple.
He says teaching them to obeyeverything I have commanded you.
There's this idea that when youbecome a Christian, when you
start to follow Jesus, you arelearning from him and you are
(03:36):
walking in his way.
You are learning what he hascommanded and you are learning
how can I successfully obey himin all areas and aspects of my
life.
So those are just a couple ofthe scriptures that I think of
off the top of my head when I'mlooking at how can I be a
successful disciple of JesusChrist.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I love that you brought up a scripture from John
, because when I think ofdiscipleship, I love that word
abide.
Love that word abide because ifI'm not just abiding with Jesus
and just slowing down to spendtime with him, just at his feet
in his face, reading my Bible,meditating on the scriptures,
and just spending the time inprayer, praise and worship, I
(04:15):
personally think I would bemissing the mark of discipleship
if I'm not abiding with ourLord and Savior, jesus Christ.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's one of those things whereyou know if you're trying in
your own strength.
You know a lot of.
There are a lot of self-helpbooks out there about you know
how to get stronger or how to bemore financially wise or
whatever else, and and you canhave some success with that.
But if you want to have successin the area of being a
Christian, you got it, you gotto have the Lord Jesus.
(04:42):
You can't do it without him.
Right, christian without him.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So yeah, and also, as you was talking, you mentioned
another word that really justsparked my attention was
obedience, because a huge aspectof discipleship is obedience,
and I saw this quote that saysspiritual maturity isn't
measured by how high you mayjump in your praise, but how
straight you walk in yourobedience.
So, stephen, could you speak tothe role of obedience as it
(05:08):
relates to discipleship?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Amen, absolutely.
Obedience really is just,that's our call, right.
You know, we as Christians, webelieve that there's one God,
the Father, son and Holy Spirit,that he's the creator of all
things and, as the good creator,as the person who made the
trees, the forest, the water, hecreated everything with order
(05:31):
and with righteousness, and notto be the strict school teacher
person, but for our good right,he ordered things in a way that
is good for us and for ourflourishing.
And so when we talk aboutobedience, when the Lord says
things like do not lie, do notsteal, do not murder, why is he
saying those things?
Does he want to be this controlfreak over our lives?
(05:52):
No, it's good, those are goodthings.
When I'm not lying to myneighbor, when I'm treating him
fairly and honestly, that is agood thing.
When I am not stealing from him, or when I'm not murdering from
him, that's a good thing for myneighbor and vice versa.
And so, with obedience, it'sreally recognizing that, yes,
one, there is a God, you know,the Father, the Son, the Holy
(06:14):
Spirit, the Lord Jesus Christ,and he wants me to succeed, he
wants me to have a good life,but in order to have that good,
fruitful, abundant life thatJesus promises.
I can't do whatever I want.
You know, I can't just try todo things my own way.
There's a way that God hascreated the world and if I want
to be successful and enjoy thisrich and abundant life,
(06:36):
obedience is going to be part ofit.
I'm yapping a lot, but if Icould really just say concisely,
I would say discipleship reallyis just the art of obedience.
How can I obey Jesus better?
What does obedience look likein my particular life and
circumstances?
Yeah, I mean, obedience reallyis everything when it comes to
(06:57):
discipleship.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Steve, I don't know if you know, but you just
dropped the bar.
That's something that'sdefinitely worth tweeting, or X
or whatever people want to saynow.
But when you say thatdiscipleship is the art of
obedience, that really just kindof takes the bar.
That's something that'sdefinitely worth tweeting, or X
or whatever people want to saynow.
But when you say thatdiscipleship is the art of
obedience, that really just kindof takes the cake, because if
I'm not doing what God has toldme to do, then I'm missing the
mark on discipleship.
And I want to hear from youwhat do you believe are some of
(07:18):
the most important spiritualdisciplines that can help our
listener grow as a disciple?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, absolutely, jesus has commanded things right
.
So it's like, hey, if you wantto know, well, what does Jesus
command us, read the Bible,right?
You know, in Sunday school theykind of when you're a kid
they're like, yeah, yeah, readthe Bible.
And you're like, okay, yeah,you know whatever pastor or
whatever elder.
But no, really, as you getolder, it's like, hey, if I want
to obey and if I want to knowwhat Jesus has commanded, well,
(07:46):
he's given me 66 books ofscripture to which where I can
get to know who God is, what hewants, what he desires, and how
can I command him.
And so, yeah, st Paul reallytalks about this a lot too,
right?
He's like, hey, we have thescriptures, we have things that
are useful for rebuking andreproving us and helping us to
(08:10):
be men of God, and so you lookat the scriptures, and I could
go to a lot of differentscriptures.
I'm just, I'm going to keep itsimple.
One of the first things I didwhen I started college was I
looked at the passage of thefruit of the Spirit.
College was I looked at thepassage of the fruit of the
spirit and my mentor at thattime, a guy named Lante Lante,
(08:30):
was discipling me and we werereading the fruit of the spirit
passage and he's like Stephen,do you think you have the fruit
of the spirit?
And a young, young, 18 year oldStephen, he had kind of, you
know, knew the fruit of thespirit song from you know, being
growing up in Sunday school,but I, just I was like you know,
I was like I, I know the song,but I haven't really thought
(08:52):
about do I have some of thosequalities?
So he's like, hey, let's pullit up, let's pull up Galatians,
chapter five, and let's lookthrough some of those things.
So, um, yeah, I would say, hey,anybody watching this podcast,
this is just a really goodexercise.
But what we did is we looked atGalatians 5.
We said, hey, we know these aretraits that we want to develop.
And so we looked at love, joy,peace, patience, gentleness,
(09:14):
kindness.
You know you can go down thelist.
And what me and Lante did isLante said, okay, hey, steven,
this week focus on being loving.
And I said, okay, I'm going tofocus on being loving.
And so throughout that week Iwas like, okay, who can I be
loving to?
I was like, okay, well, I seemy family members, so let me be
loving to my family members.
Oh, you know, I'm going toclass.
(09:35):
I see people in my class.
How can I be loving to them?
Oh, I'm driving in Atlantatraffic and I'm getting really,
really person in front of me andI'm like, wait, I need to be
loving to that guy.
Each week, we would add eachfruit of the spirit.
Until you know, we worked on ongetting, on getting it.
So that's one just reallypractical way I can think of of
(09:57):
saying here's something inscripture that God has given.
Here's how I can practicallyapply it in my life.
Right?
So yeah, that's kind of onething I'm just thinking of off
the top of my head.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, because when it comes to spiritual disciplines,
we need to have those and dothose so we can be disciples.
And you hit the nail on thehead with the one that I think
is the most important.
It starts with the Bible.
It starts with God's Wordknowing it, reading it, knowing
it, reading it, meditating on it, most importantly, obeying it.
And I don't think I would addto that is, you know, definitely
prayer.
I feel like those go hand inhand.
As you're spending time with thelord, you're spending time
(10:32):
reading your bible.
The reading the bible is whengod is talking to you, and then
his prayer.
That's when we talk back to him.
And then another disciplinethat I would add steven is
definitely going to church, asthe bible tells us in Hebrews
not to forsake the assembly.
We need community, because younailed it on the head with two
important things when you talkedabout community.
Talk about discipleship, whenyou said that somebody was
(10:53):
discipling you.
We need to be pouring intoothers and others need to be
pouring to us, and one of thebest places to find that healthy
spiritual community is in God'shouse.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Amen, Absolutely.
Yeah, we, we can't do it alone,right?
You know, sometimes some peoplemight have this idea of like,
oh, you know, I'm going to bethis lone wolf Christian, I
don't need to go to church, Idon't need to go to things.
You know, I can just be, I canbe a Christian in, you know, the
confines of my home.
And it's just like, no, no,you're going to fail, right?
You know Jesus talks so muchabout unity within the church.
(11:24):
You just mentioned that verse.
Do not forsake the gathering,right?
Like no, we need brothers andsisters in Christ who can come
alongside us and pray for us andencourage us, because without
those things, we will fail.
You know, right, we will fail.
I mean, look at God.
God is a trinity, right?
He is Father, Son and HolySpirit.
(11:45):
There's community within theGodhead.
And so you know, if there'scommunity within the Godhead,
like we would be very, veryfoolish to say like, oh, I don't
need Christian community, I canjust do it.
And it's like, no, God, this isa gift from God.
Our brothers in Christ are agift to us to encourage us and
build us up and, you know, ofteneven hold us accountable if
(12:05):
we're going down the wrong path,because that's definitely
something that can happen.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, and I want to dive even deeper into that
because, like I said, I believethat there are two key aspects
of discipleship On one hand, Ineed to be being a disciple and,
on the other hand, I need to bediscipling somebody else or
pouring into somebody else.
I think about Elijah and Elisha, I think about Moses and Joshua
, I think about, in the NewTestament, paul and Timothy.
So could you just speak to that?
The importance of having amentor, or just the overall
(12:33):
thing of discipling others andbeing discipled as well?
Speak to that.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know young people who havenever been discipled before.
You need to be discipled, right.
And also older Christians.
You know, I'm 27, so I've bothbeen discipled and have done
some discipleship.
But it's one of those thingswhere older Christians, you have
a lot to give.
(12:57):
You know, I know Gen Z and Iguess Gen Alpha is starting to
rise up too, but hey, we have alot of people that need
discipleship.
I heard a quote a couple ofweeks ago.
It said this thinking you don'tneed to be discipled is one of
the most arrogant things you canthink.
And then, on the flip side,thinking you don't need to
disciple anybody is one of themost selfish things you can
(13:20):
think.
Because here's what it is.
Um, you know the example, uh,the the guy I was talking to was
saying was you know, imaginethat you have the cure to cancer
and everybody in the world hascancer and you can heal it.
Uh, you can heal it.
If you just give it toeverybody else, they can be
cured.
But you're just like nah, youknow I'm gonna keep it to myself
(13:41):
, I just want it because youknow I don't.
I don't really need to give itto anybody else.
Why would I give it to anybodyelse?
And when you say I don't needto disciple anybody, you are
depriving somebody of the greatgift of the gospel, the great
gift of sanctification, notnecessarily that you give those
things.
God ultimately gives thosethings, but he uses people to
(14:02):
distribute some of those giftsright.
On the other hand, you know, Iremember being a young buck.
I remember when I first becamea Christian I was like, oh, I'm
going to evangelize my wholehigh school and my college.
And you know, I was out theretalking authoritatively about
theology and I don't even thinkI really understood the Trinity
that well at that point.
So you, you know I was outthere being like, hey, you know
(14:25):
jesus.
I was like, well, you know,he's not quite god, but he's
like this halfway god humanthing.
And I'm just like, wait asecond, that's not, that's not
christian teaching at all.
So, um, so yeah, for you youngguys out there, you young women
out there, when you first becamea christian, praise the lord,
angels in heaven are rejoicing.
But you don't't know everything.
Right, you need somebody, anolder Christian, to come
(14:47):
alongside you and to meet withyou week to week and say, hey,
here's what Jesus said.
How can I be a Christian in mytheology?
Right, what are the basics ofChristianity?
Trinity is a big one, you know.
No other religion believes inthe Trinity.
What is that distinct Christiandoctrine.
You need to know how to be aChristian when you know finding
(15:09):
a spouse A vast majority ofpeople on this earth, you know
there's some exceptions, but avast majority of people are
going to get married, right?
How can I find a godly spouse,how can I prepare to be a godly
spouse one day?
And then you know with that,how can I one day be a godly
husband, godly father, and then,if you're even looking even
more long-term, godlygrandfather, and then, like your
(15:32):
job, right, your work is one of.
You know most people are goingto spend about 40 to 60 hours a
week on some kind of job.
You know some people may be alittle bit less, some people may
be a little bit more, butthat's a big chunk of your week.
How can you be faithful toJesus Christ there?
And so, at the risk of beingsuper too long-winded,
discipleship is necessary forevery aspect of your life.
(15:54):
Nobody knows everything right,and so if you're a young person,
like, go get discipled, getsomebody pouring into you.
At the same time, if you're anolder person, hey, there's a lot
of young people thatdesperately need someone to pour
into.
Go out and find someone youngat your church and spend some
time pouring into them, prayingfor them and guiding them
through life.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Steven, you said so many good things, I'm not even
sure where to start, but I'mgoing to start here.
I love when you said I thinkyou brought up the quote that
you ran across maybe a couple ofweeks ago.
I'm going to personalize thisTo think that I don't need to be
discipled is very arrogant ofme.
To think that I don't need todisciple somebody else is very
selfish of me.
I just think the listeners needto let that sink in, because we
(16:38):
can't go with this thing alone.
We are a community.
We should be pointing others toChrist, and we should be around
people that are also pointingus to Christ as well.
So I want to ask you this,before we kind of get to our
conclusion what does it looklike to be a disciple in today's
culture?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah, I mean, discipleship hasn't ended, right
, you know, jesus gave theMatthew 28 command about 2000
years ago, but we're still going, we're still working on making
disciples, we're still lookingto proclaim the gospel to our
friends, neighbors and all thenation.
So yeah, I mean, in the modernday, in some ways, the call is
still the same, right, you know,we still have the same Lord, we
(17:14):
still have the same mission.
So that is the same Doing ittoday in modern settings.
Certainly some things havechanged from 2000 years ago.
You know, I kind of mentionedit just a few minutes ago but,
like, you and me are able totalk even though we're hundreds
of miles away.
That wasn't something that waspossible 2000 years ago, but now
it is possible today.
(17:35):
So, yeah, technology,technology is a great way that
we can incorporate discipleshipin our lives.
You know there's a few guysthat back when I was working in
college ministry, you know Iused to meet with them week to
week in person.
Eventually I moved back up toAtlanta to do law school, but I
(17:56):
still stay connected with a lotof these guys and we call and we
, we uh zoom, and so, uh, onepractical way if you are
struggling to find a time tomeet up with person.
I know people are busy withwork lives and discipleship
lives.
Uh, it's not, it's not alwaysideal.
I would still recommend meetingin person if you can, at least
sometimes.
But yeah, I mean if you're justtoo busy to meet super
(18:19):
frequently.
Things like uh zoom, thingslike FaceTime, things like just
a phone call, are really reallyeasy and accessible ways to do
discipleship in the modern day,right?
Another thing, I think aboutbusy schedules.
Like I said earlier, a lot ofpeople are working 40, 50, 60
hours a week, sometimes even alot more than that.
(18:41):
That's something that wasn'talways necessarily true in the
ancient world.
What I would say is, in themodern practice, I think of the
verse where God says to be stilland know that he is God.
There are so many thingscalling for our attention today.
Right, you know you have theTVs you have.
You know you go out into theworld and you see billboards and
(19:03):
magazines.
When you're watching TV,there's all these advertisements
coming in.
We also have our phones and so,like you know, really at any
aspect of the day, there's justso many things calling for your
attention Friends DMing you,commercials on the TV calling
for your attention.
You know you go to school oryou go to class, like there's
all these these things trying toget your attention and trying
(19:25):
to uh, pray for your time.
I would say it can be hardsometimes, but I really say,
take some time each day.
It doesn't have to be long, itcould be five minutes.
If you're a really, really busyperson, it could be five
minutes.
Or if you have some more time,I would say maybe even take 20,
30 minutes.
Or, if you really can do this,even an hour or two hours.
(19:45):
Put the phone away, kind of getby yourself and really just say
Lord, I'm going to commit thistime to praying to you.
I'm going to be still Know thatyou are God.
I'm going to say Lord, how canI glorify you today?
I'm starting, you know I'mstarting my morning or I'm
ending my day.
What are some things I can dotoday to make sure I am honoring
(20:06):
you?
What are some temptations maybethat I might experience today
and how can I maybe avoid someof those temptations?
Um, who do I need to call?
Who is somebody I haven'ttalked to in a while, or who is
somebody I'm going to see inperson today, where I'm like,
hey, I see Billy Bob, joe allthe time, or I see George all
the time, but I've never sharedthe gospel with him.
(20:26):
Maybe that's something I needto do.
And so those are two thingswhere I can say, hey, we have a
lot of stuff in our modern daytoday, but you still can make
time.
There still are ways to say, Ican put away things and I can go
into the word.
I can get a discipleshipmeeting with my pastor or with
my elder or with a friend and Ican say God, it's a busy modern
(20:49):
world, but you're important tome and I'm going to put all of
that aside because you are themost important thing on this
planet that matters and I'mgoing to spend time with you.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Stephen, your response was both practical and
rich and just kind of boiling itdown like discipleship you said
it best like it hasn't reallychanged, like the message hasn't
changed Maybe some of themethods have.
But kind of summing it up with,discipleship of today is you
know, you need to be followingJesus, you need to be pointing
people to Jesus and then, as youjust said, you need to be being
(21:21):
with Jesus.
Kind of remind me of Mary.
She had a lot to do.
Both Mary and Martha had a lotto do, but Mary chose the good
part, and that was just spendingtime at the feet of Jesus.
And on that note, steve, I wantyou just to think about the
person that may be just having atough season in their walk with
the Lord.
Maybe they just feel a littlestagnant.
(21:42):
What encouragement would yougive to that person, as well as
what encouragement would yougive to the person that may be
starting out their walk with theLord?
So just give the listener someencouragement.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
I've been there.
I've been there where I havefelt like my faith walk is
stagnant.
It's like I'm going through themotions, I'm reading the Bible,
I'm going through the motions,I'm reading the Bible, I'm going
to church, but but somethingfeels off to that person, Um,
and I'll get to the new believerin just a second.
But yeah, to that person Iwould say, um, I actually might
(22:14):
say something that might be alittle bit against the grain in
some sense, but, uh, you know, Iwould say, keep going through
the motions.
You know, it is good that yougo to church, it is good that
you are reading your Bible.
I love this example that, youknow, my pastor gives sometimes.
He says you know, yourrelationship with God in some
(22:34):
sense is like being married.
Right, we're called the brideof Christ.
You're not always going to feellovey-dovey feelings toward
your wife all the time.
You know, when you've beenmarried five, 10, 15, 20 years,
um, you know you, it's not.
It's not going to feel like thefirst date, right, it's not.
It's not always going to feelthat way.
When, when things are feelingoff with their marriage, Do you
(22:55):
stop going on coffee dates?
Do you kind of like, do youstop spending time with your
spouse.
Do you like take a break fromyour spouse?
No, you don't do that right.
You know that's a good way todeteriorate your relationship
really, really fast.
What you do is you still keepdoing those things and you know
you communicate.
I think about where there wasthe man who had a son who was
(23:16):
demon possessed, and Jesus goesand the man's really frustrated
and he's like you know, yourdisciples tried to heal my son
but they couldn't do it.
But if you know if you can doit, you know, please heal my son
.
And Jesus is just like if I can, anything is possible for those
who believe.
And then the man immediatelysays this very, very beautiful
(23:41):
thing that can be say, said as aprayer, almost.
He says Lord, I do believe,help me to overcome my belief.
The man recognized his heartwasn't in it, he was frustrated,
he was mad.
He's like my son is here, he'sdemon possessed.
These disciples were supposedto do it.
They haven't done it.
Here comes Jesus.
Can he do it?
Like that was his feeling.
He couldn't control his feeling, but what he could control is
(24:04):
he could say how am I going torespond to the feeling I have?
So I said a lot.
But to the person who's beingstagnant, I would recommend
reading the Psalms, particularlythe Psalms where this sounds a
little bit blasphemous, but Ipromise it isn't.
Listen to the Psalms, where thereader is kind of mad at God.
Right, it is not a sin to bemad at God.
(24:28):
You know, life is the way it is.
Sometimes, when you serve anall-powerful, all-knowing God,
you might be thinking God,you're perfect, you're
all-powerful.
Why can't you just fix myproblems?
Why am I even having problems?
It is okay to feel that way.
It is okay to be frustratedwith God.
(24:50):
It is okay to be angry with God.
What's not okay is to take thatfrustration and go and excuse
sin.
When you're feeling frustrated,when you're feeling angry, go to
God and say Lord, I'mfrustrated, I'm angry, I'm
feeling stagnant, I don't feellike you're there, I don't feel
like I don't feel the joy I wantto feel.
And then do what the guy saidSay help me to overcome my
(25:10):
unbelief.
Be honest with God.
God already knows everything inyour life.
Feel free to be honest with him.
Feel free to tell him thatyou're mad at him, that you're
frustrated with him.
And again, I know that soundslike a little bit blasphemous,
but God can take it right.
He loves you.
You're his child and you'reallowed to vent your
frustrations with him at times.
So that would be my firstpractical tip.
Psalms has a lot of good stuffwith that the book of Job if you
(25:34):
read Job, there's a lot offrustrations that are expressed
in that book.
Lamentations Lamentations isalso another great book of the
Bible that you can read.
So if you're feeling stagnantin your faith or if you're
feeling frustrated, I would say,hey, those are some great books
to go to.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
See, I'm so glad that you took the time to kind of
divide up that question and howyou just spoke to the person
that's stagnant in their walkwith the Lord, because what you
said is so important, becauseyou know, a lot of times I think
we need to go to church.
You know, wear our Sunday best,act like you know.
Nothing is wrong with this,this cookie cutter Christianity.
But life can get messy and lifecan be hard, and I, walk with
(26:10):
the Lord can be hard.
Not that God is hard, but ourlife can be hard.
I'm so glad that you spoke tothat.
This makes the same that God isbig enough to handle our doubt.
God is big enough to handle allof our mess and we shouldn't
allow our doubt.
We shouldn't allow our mess.
We shouldn't allow thecircumstances of life to draw us
away from the Lord and just touse it as an excuse to sin.
(26:31):
But that should be somethingthat should draw us to the Lord.
So I'm so glad because maybethere's a person listening right
now, maybe just going through atough time, and that
encouragement was for you.
You may feel like you're faraway from God, but you want to
be close to him.
That's a good thing that youwant to be close to him.
The dangerous thing is when youfeel far away from God and you
just don't care.
And so the fact that you wantto be close to him and you feel
(26:52):
like it's a dry season and, likeI say once again, you want to
be close to him, you're in agood place to be.
So, stephen, I'm so glad thatyou took time to break that down
that God is big enough tohandle all of our frustrations.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
So for the new believer, this is an exciting
time.
I remember when I first becamea Christian, just life felt so
light and freeing and I just wasreally, really overwhelmed with
joy about who Jesus was, whathe had done for me on the cross,
how he had resurrected from thedead, and I just kind of had
(27:27):
butterflies just thinking aboutwow, the Lord of the universe
loves me.
That's amazing.
Here's the encouragement I'mgoing to give to the new
believer, and this isn't tohamper your joy.
This isn't to say you know thatyou need to get all serious and
you know, sullen all of asudden, but life is going to
happen and life is going tohappen very fast.
(27:49):
You know, whether you become aChristian as a child or whether
you become a Christian at,whether you become a Christian
at 50 or 60, life's going tohappen.
You know we can't foresee allthe things, things in life.
But you know, sometimes youlose that job or you don't get
that job you really, really wantit.
Uh, sometimes you start to havemarital problems with your
spouse.
You know, uh, you get marriedand you're like, wow, things are
(28:11):
going to be great and amazing.
And then, um, you know, asthings happen, you know,
conflict happens.
You guys might not see eye toeye on things with their
families, things with finances,things with where should you
live, what kind of people areyou associating with?
And all of a sudden, that joyyou first had in the Lord, all
of a sudden, you know, you mightstart to get nervous and hurt
(28:32):
and doubt again.
And so I would say you are notalone.
But you need discipleshipbecause you know, nobody knows
how to deal with those things.
Right, uh, you know.
Uh, god forbid if some of this,some of these things will
happen.
But, like you know, how do yoube a Christian when you've lost
your job?
How do you be a Christian whenyou were in a relationship where
(28:56):
you thought you were going toget married to that person, but
now the relationship's ended?
Or you know, hey, sometimesthis happens too You're married
to the person and then divorcehappens.
This is like whoa, how do Icontinue to follow the Lord when
something like really, reallytragic like that happens?
And that's where discipleshipis so important, when you have
an older Christian that can walkalongside you and has either
(29:18):
experienced some of those thingsthemselves or at least has
talked to and counseled peoplethrough, has either experienced
some of those things themselves,or at least has talked to and
counseled people through thathave encountered some of those
things.
What happens is, when thosestorms in life hit, there's
already someone that's beenwalking with you for days, weeks
, months, years and even decadesand it's like, okay, I'm not
alone, I have somebody that Ican run to because they've been
(29:41):
walking with me for all thistime.
Uh, but two, um, they canprepare you for some of those
things, right?
Uh, you know, I remember 18year old me, you know, uh, I was
like, oh, I'm handsome, I'myoung, I'm confident, I'm going
to, I'm going to be a greathusband.
One day I did not know the firstsingle thing about being a good
godly man, pursuing women oranything like that.
(30:03):
As I started to read thescripture and I would read
things like Jesus saying hey,even look at a woman with lust,
you've committed adultery inyour heart.
You know, 18 year old me waslike oh, I do that a lot.
I need to stop doing that,right.
So it's one of those thingswhere when you're a new believer
you're going to read things inscripture, you're going to
(30:24):
encounter things where you'relike I didn't know that was a
sin, but now I know it.
But if you're not beingdiscipled you might continue to
do a lot of sins and you don'teven realize you're doing it
because you're not gettingproper discipleship.
So I know I've said a lot ofthings, no, but really just if I
could summarize that in twoseconds One, find someone to
disciple you so that you knowwhat God requires and how to
(30:47):
live the obedient Christian life.
But two, also, new believer,get someone to disciple you so
that when not if when the stormsof life come, you have somebody
that already has been therewith you consistently and they
can help walk and love youthrough some of those very
difficult things in life.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
We're going to drop the mic right there, stephen.
Thank you so much for joiningthe show and just offering the
honesty, the practicality andjust offering insights.
I really appreciate you andyour time.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Absolutely, thank you .
Thank you so much, paul.
I really appreciate being onthis show and keep up the good
work.
I know you are blessing so, somany people with this podcast
and just administering yourpersonal life, so keep doing
what you're doing, brother.
You are blessing so, so manyand the work you're doing
glorifies our Lord Jesus Christvery, very tremendously.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Amen, and I appreciate that.
I love doing this.
This is another way of doingministry.
It also gives me aquote-unquote excuse to rekindle
friendships and to go back intime, if you will, like I say as
we met on that mission trip.
And same thing to you just whatyou're doing with social media
and just using that platform topoint people to Christ.
Kudos to you.
Remind me of the Apostle Paul.
(32:04):
He did so much ministry withthe paper and pen.
And here we are.
We got the internet, we gotsocial media, but that's another
story for another day.
Speaking of social media,Stephen, tell the people how can
they connect with you.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Yeah, my username on TikTok andInstagram is Sahil the Disciple
.
That's spelled S-A-H-I-L andthen the disciple.
So, yeah, you can follow me onthose platforms.
I'm also on.
I know it used to be calledTwitter, it's now X.
I'm also on X, so if you wantedto follow me on there as well
(32:36):
same username you can just typein Sahil the Disciple so you can
find me there.
And yeah, I talk about theology, I talk about relationships, I
talk about Christian living.
I also make memes because, youknow, life can be very, very
serious sometimes.
So sometimes, you know, I thinkwe just need a good laugh, so I
also make memes.
So if you are into any of thosethings I just talked about,
feel free to find me on thoseplatforms so I'm going to leave
(33:00):
that link in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
I recommend that you connect with him on social media
.
Great guy to follow and,speaking of you, thank you so
much for tuning in today andlistening.
I really pray that this episodewill spur you on to good works
and that it will inspire you tokeep following Jesus, no matter
the cost.
So until next time, go, be allthat God has called you to be
(33:40):
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Free audio.
Post production by Alphoniccom.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome and thanks for tuning in to Real People,
real Talk, relevantconversations that take you from
surviving to thriving.
This is the podcast that goesthere.
My name is Paul Calcoat and I'myour host.
Now let's talk.
Hello, thriver, and welcome toReal People, real Talk, the
(00:38):
podcast ministry that equips youto thrive spiritually,
relationally and mentally, andtoday's episode is all about
thriving in your walk with theLord.
As we're going to talk about allthings, discipleship.
Before I introduce my guest, Iwant to share two of my favorite
discipleship quotes.
The first one by Leif Hetland.
He says If you're not followingJesus, you're not really a
disciple.
(00:59):
The second one, by DallasWillard, says Discipleship is
the process of becoming whoJesus will be if he was you.
My guest today, stephen David,also known as Sahil the disciple
on TikTok and Instagram, is adeacon and a law student who
loves Jesus and is committed toserving him through the practice
of law and through the localchurch.
(01:19):
A former campus missionary,stephen has had the opportunity
to work with and discipleseveral college and high school
students over the last few years.
He firmly believes that God canbe glorified both through the
church and also through one'scareer, and I agree with that.
He seeks to encourage all touse their gifts for the glory of
God.
Welcome to the show, stephen.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Thank you so much, Paul.
A pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Well, first things first.
Stephen, tell us how would youdefine discipleship in your own
words?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think discipleship reallyjust gets down to abiding with
Jesus Christ, right, and youknow, when we're talking about
discipleship generally, in somesense a lot of dictionaries
might define it as following amaster or following a teacher.
But yeah, you know, obviouslyin the context of Christianity I
would say, yeah, it's abidingwith and learning the ways and
(02:13):
teachings of the Lord JesusChrist, and so that's kind of a
simple definition.
I know we'll probably teasethat out a little bit more, but
that's probably the simpledefinition I'd give.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Definitely.
I love that.
It's something that we canbuild upon, and could you just
share some of your favoritescriptures or biblical examples?
That's related to discipleship.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
I mean, this one might be alittle bit of an unusual one,
but I really just think of John,chapter 15, where Jesus talks
about being the vine, and it'sin verse five.
He says you know, I am the vine, you are the branches.
If you remain in me and I inyou, you will bear much fruit,
and apart from me, you can donothing.
(02:52):
So that's one where it's justlike hey, without Jesus, if I am
not connected to the Lord,jesus Christ, I can't do
anything, I'm not going to be asuccessful disciple, I'm not
going to be a successfulChristian.
So that's one of the first onesthat I think about.
Some other scriptures that Ilook at is, you know, matthew 28
(03:13):
, the Great Commission, whereJesus says go, therefore, and
make disciples of all nations.
So he says go, make disciples.
And then he gives kind of themission of the disciple.
He says teaching them to obeyeverything I have commanded you.
There's this idea that when youbecome a Christian, when you
start to follow Jesus, you arelearning from him and you are
(03:36):
walking in his way.
You are learning what he hascommanded and you are learning
how can I successfully obey himin all areas and aspects of my
life.
So those are just a couple ofthe scriptures that I think of
off the top of my head when I'mlooking at how can I be a
successful disciple of JesusChrist.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I love that you brought up a scripture from John
, because when I think ofdiscipleship, I love that word
abide.
Love that word abide because ifI'm not just abiding with Jesus
and just slowing down to spendtime with him, just at his feet
in his face, reading my Bible,meditating on the scriptures,
and just spending the time inprayer, praise and worship, I
(04:15):
personally think I would bemissing the mark of discipleship
if I'm not abiding with ourLord and Savior, jesus Christ.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's one of those things whereyou know if you're trying in
your own strength.
You know a lot of.
There are a lot of self-helpbooks out there about you know
how to get stronger or how to bemore financially wise or
whatever else, and and you canhave some success with that.
But if you want to have successin the area of being a
Christian, you got it, you gotto have the Lord Jesus.
(04:42):
You can't do it without him.
Right, christian without him.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So yeah, and also, as you was talking, you mentioned
another word that really justsparked my attention was
obedience, because a huge aspectof discipleship is obedience,
and I saw this quote that saysspiritual maturity isn't
measured by how high you mayjump in your praise, but how
straight you walk in yourobedience.
So, stephen, could you speak tothe role of obedience as it
(05:08):
relates to discipleship?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Amen, absolutely.
Obedience really is just,that's our call, right.
You know, we as Christians, webelieve that there's one God,
the Father, son and Holy Spirit,that he's the creator of all
things and, as the good creator,as the person who made the
trees, the forest, the water, hecreated everything with order
(05:31):
and with righteousness, and notto be the strict school teacher
person, but for our good right,he ordered things in a way that
is good for us and for ourflourishing.
And so when we talk aboutobedience, when the Lord says
things like do not lie, do notsteal, do not murder, why is he
saying those things?
Does he want to be this controlfreak over our lives?
(05:52):
No, it's good, those are goodthings.
When I'm not lying to myneighbor, when I'm treating him
fairly and honestly, that is agood thing.
When I am not stealing from him, or when I'm not murdering from
him, that's a good thing for myneighbor and vice versa.
And so, with obedience, it'sreally recognizing that, yes,
one, there is a God, you know,the Father, the Son, the Holy
(06:14):
Spirit, the Lord Jesus Christ,and he wants me to succeed, he
wants me to have a good life,but in order to have that good,
fruitful, abundant life thatJesus promises.
I can't do whatever I want.
You know, I can't just try todo things my own way.
There's a way that God hascreated the world and if I want
to be successful and enjoy thisrich and abundant life,
(06:36):
obedience is going to be part ofit.
I'm yapping a lot, but if Icould really just say concisely,
I would say discipleship reallyis just the art of obedience.
How can I obey Jesus better?
What does obedience look likein my particular life and
circumstances?
Yeah, I mean, obedience reallyis everything when it comes to
(06:57):
discipleship.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Steve, I don't know if you know, but you just
dropped the bar.
That's something that'sdefinitely worth tweeting, or X
or whatever people want to saynow.
But when you say thatdiscipleship is the art of
obedience, that really just kindof takes the bar.
That's something that'sdefinitely worth tweeting, or X
or whatever people want to saynow.
But when you say thatdiscipleship is the art of
obedience, that really just kindof takes the cake, because if
I'm not doing what God has toldme to do, then I'm missing the
mark on discipleship.
And I want to hear from youwhat do you believe are some of
(07:18):
the most important spiritualdisciplines that can help our
listener grow as a disciple?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, absolutely, jesus has commanded things right
.
So it's like, hey, if you wantto know, well, what does Jesus
command us, read the Bible,right?
You know, in Sunday school theykind of when you're a kid
they're like, yeah, yeah, readthe Bible.
And you're like, okay, yeah,you know whatever pastor or
whatever elder.
But no, really, as you getolder, it's like, hey, if I want
to obey and if I want to knowwhat Jesus has commanded, well,
(07:46):
he's given me 66 books ofscripture to which where I can
get to know who God is, what hewants, what he desires, and how
can I command him.
And so, yeah, st Paul reallytalks about this a lot too,
right?
He's like, hey, we have thescriptures, we have things that
are useful for rebuking andreproving us and helping us to
(08:10):
be men of God, and so you lookat the scriptures, and I could
go to a lot of differentscriptures.
I'm just, I'm going to keep itsimple.
One of the first things I didwhen I started college was I
looked at the passage of thefruit of the Spirit.
College was I looked at thepassage of the fruit of the
spirit and my mentor at thattime, a guy named Lante Lante,
(08:30):
was discipling me and we werereading the fruit of the spirit
passage and he's like Stephen,do you think you have the fruit
of the spirit?
And a young, young, 18 year oldStephen, he had kind of, you
know, knew the fruit of thespirit song from you know, being
growing up in Sunday school,but I, just I was like you know,
I was like I, I know the song,but I haven't really thought
(08:52):
about do I have some of thosequalities?
So he's like, hey, let's pullit up, let's pull up Galatians,
chapter five, and let's lookthrough some of those things.
So, um, yeah, I would say, hey,anybody watching this podcast,
this is just a really goodexercise.
But what we did is we looked atGalatians 5.
We said, hey, we know these aretraits that we want to develop.
And so we looked at love, joy,peace, patience, gentleness,
(09:14):
kindness.
You know you can go down thelist.
And what me and Lante did isLante said, okay, hey, steven,
this week focus on being loving.
And I said, okay, I'm going tofocus on being loving.
And so throughout that week Iwas like, okay, who can I be
loving to?
I was like, okay, well, I seemy family members, so let me be
loving to my family members.
Oh, you know, I'm going toclass.
(09:35):
I see people in my class.
How can I be loving to them?
Oh, I'm driving in Atlantatraffic and I'm getting really,
really person in front of me andI'm like, wait, I need to be
loving to that guy.
Each week, we would add eachfruit of the spirit.
Until you know, we worked on ongetting, on getting it.
So that's one just reallypractical way I can think of of
(09:57):
saying here's something inscripture that God has given.
Here's how I can practicallyapply it in my life.
Right?
So yeah, that's kind of onething I'm just thinking of off
the top of my head.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, because when it comes to spiritual disciplines,
we need to have those and dothose so we can be disciples.
And you hit the nail on thehead with the one that I think
is the most important.
It starts with the Bible.
It starts with God's Wordknowing it, reading it, knowing
it, reading it, meditating on it, most importantly, obeying it.
And I don't think I would addto that is, you know, definitely
prayer.
I feel like those go hand inhand.
As you're spending time with thelord, you're spending time
(10:32):
reading your bible.
The reading the bible is whengod is talking to you, and then
his prayer.
That's when we talk back to him.
And then another disciplinethat I would add steven is
definitely going to church, asthe bible tells us in Hebrews
not to forsake the assembly.
We need community, because younailed it on the head with two
important things when you talkedabout community.
Talk about discipleship, whenyou said that somebody was
(10:53):
discipling you.
We need to be pouring intoothers and others need to be
pouring to us, and one of thebest places to find that healthy
spiritual community is in God'shouse.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Amen, Absolutely.
Yeah, we, we can't do it alone,right?
You know, sometimes some peoplemight have this idea of like,
oh, you know, I'm going to bethis lone wolf Christian, I
don't need to go to church, Idon't need to go to things.
You know, I can just be, I canbe a Christian in, you know, the
confines of my home.
And it's just like, no, no,you're going to fail, right?
You know Jesus talks so muchabout unity within the church.
(11:24):
You just mentioned that verse.
Do not forsake the gathering,right?
Like no, we need brothers andsisters in Christ who can come
alongside us and pray for us andencourage us, because without
those things, we will fail.
You know, right, we will fail.
I mean, look at God.
God is a trinity, right?
He is Father, Son and HolySpirit.
(11:45):
There's community within theGodhead.
And so you know, if there'scommunity within the Godhead,
like we would be very, veryfoolish to say like, oh, I don't
need Christian community, I canjust do it.
And it's like, no, God, this isa gift from God.
Our brothers in Christ are agift to us to encourage us and
build us up and, you know, ofteneven hold us accountable if
(12:05):
we're going down the wrong path,because that's definitely
something that can happen.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, and I want to dive even deeper into that
because, like I said, I believethat there are two key aspects
of discipleship On one hand, Ineed to be being a disciple and,
on the other hand, I need to bediscipling somebody else or
pouring into somebody else.
I think about Elijah and Elisha, I think about Moses and Joshua
, I think about, in the NewTestament, paul and Timothy.
So could you just speak to that?
The importance of having amentor, or just the overall
(12:33):
thing of discipling others andbeing discipled as well?
Speak to that.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know young people who havenever been discipled before.
You need to be discipled, right.
And also older Christians.
You know, I'm 27, so I've bothbeen discipled and have done
some discipleship.
But it's one of those thingswhere older Christians, you have
a lot to give.
(12:57):
You know, I know Gen Z and Iguess Gen Alpha is starting to
rise up too, but hey, we have alot of people that need
discipleship.
I heard a quote a couple ofweeks ago.
It said this thinking you don'tneed to be discipled is one of
the most arrogant things you canthink.
And then, on the flip side,thinking you don't need to
disciple anybody is one of themost selfish things you can
(13:20):
think.
Because here's what it is.
Um, you know the example, uh,the the guy I was talking to was
saying was you know, imaginethat you have the cure to cancer
and everybody in the world hascancer and you can heal it.
Uh, you can heal it.
If you just give it toeverybody else, they can be
cured.
But you're just like nah, youknow I'm gonna keep it to myself
(13:41):
, I just want it because youknow I don't.
I don't really need to give itto anybody else.
Why would I give it to anybodyelse?
And when you say I don't needto disciple anybody, you are
depriving somebody of the greatgift of the gospel, the great
gift of sanctification, notnecessarily that you give those
things.
God ultimately gives thosethings, but he uses people to
(14:02):
distribute some of those giftsright.
On the other hand, you know, Iremember being a young buck.
I remember when I first becamea Christian I was like, oh, I'm
going to evangelize my wholehigh school and my college.
And you know, I was out theretalking authoritatively about
theology and I don't even thinkI really understood the Trinity
that well at that point.
So you, you know I was outthere being like, hey, you know
(14:25):
jesus.
I was like, well, you know,he's not quite god, but he's
like this halfway god humanthing.
And I'm just like, wait asecond, that's not, that's not
christian teaching at all.
So, um, so yeah, for you youngguys out there, you young women
out there, when you first becamea christian, praise the lord,
angels in heaven are rejoicing.
But you don't't know everything.
Right, you need somebody, anolder Christian, to come
(14:47):
alongside you and to meet withyou week to week and say, hey,
here's what Jesus said.
How can I be a Christian in mytheology?
Right, what are the basics ofChristianity?
Trinity is a big one, you know.
No other religion believes inthe Trinity.
What is that distinct Christiandoctrine.
You need to know how to be aChristian when you know finding
(15:09):
a spouse A vast majority ofpeople on this earth, you know
there's some exceptions, but avast majority of people are
going to get married, right?
How can I find a godly spouse,how can I prepare to be a godly
spouse one day?
And then you know with that,how can I one day be a godly
husband, godly father, and then,if you're even looking even
more long-term, godlygrandfather, and then, like your
(15:32):
job, right, your work is one of.
You know most people are goingto spend about 40 to 60 hours a
week on some kind of job.
You know some people may be alittle bit less, some people may
be a little bit more, butthat's a big chunk of your week.
How can you be faithful toJesus Christ there?
And so, at the risk of beingsuper too long-winded,
discipleship is necessary forevery aspect of your life.
(15:54):
Nobody knows everything right,and so if you're a young person,
like, go get discipled, getsomebody pouring into you.
At the same time, if you're anolder person, hey, there's a lot
of young people thatdesperately need someone to pour
into.
Go out and find someone youngat your church and spend some
time pouring into them, prayingfor them and guiding them
through life.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Steven, you said so many good things, I'm not even
sure where to start, but I'mgoing to start here.
I love when you said I thinkyou brought up the quote that
you ran across maybe a couple ofweeks ago.
I'm going to personalize thisTo think that I don't need to be
discipled is very arrogant ofme.
To think that I don't need todisciple somebody else is very
selfish of me.
I just think the listeners needto let that sink in, because we
(16:38):
can't go with this thing alone.
We are a community.
We should be pointing others toChrist, and we should be around
people that are also pointingus to Christ as well.
So I want to ask you this,before we kind of get to our
conclusion what does it looklike to be a disciple in today's
culture?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah, I mean, discipleship hasn't ended, right
, you know, jesus gave theMatthew 28 command about 2000
years ago, but we're still going, we're still working on making
disciples, we're still lookingto proclaim the gospel to our
friends, neighbors and all thenation.
So yeah, I mean, in the modernday, in some ways, the call is
still the same, right, you know,we still have the same Lord, we
(17:14):
still have the same mission.
So that is the same Doing ittoday in modern settings.
Certainly some things havechanged from 2000 years ago.
You know, I kind of mentionedit just a few minutes ago but,
like, you and me are able totalk even though we're hundreds
of miles away.
That wasn't something that waspossible 2000 years ago, but now
it is possible today.
(17:35):
So, yeah, technology,technology is a great way that
we can incorporate discipleshipin our lives.
You know there's a few guysthat back when I was working in
college ministry, you know Iused to meet with them week to
week in person.
Eventually I moved back up toAtlanta to do law school, but I
(17:56):
still stay connected with a lotof these guys and we call and we
, we uh zoom, and so, uh, onepractical way if you are
struggling to find a time tomeet up with person.
I know people are busy withwork lives and discipleship
lives.
Uh, it's not, it's not alwaysideal.
I would still recommend meetingin person if you can, at least
sometimes.
But yeah, I mean if you're justtoo busy to meet super
(18:19):
frequently.
Things like uh zoom, thingslike FaceTime, things like just
a phone call, are really reallyeasy and accessible ways to do
discipleship in the modern day,right?
Another thing, I think aboutbusy schedules.
Like I said earlier, a lot ofpeople are working 40, 50, 60
hours a week, sometimes even alot more than that.
(18:41):
That's something that wasn'talways necessarily true in the
ancient world.
What I would say is, in themodern practice, I think of the
verse where God says to be stilland know that he is God.
There are so many thingscalling for our attention today.
Right, you know you have theTVs you have.
You know you go out into theworld and you see billboards and
(19:03):
magazines.
When you're watching TV,there's all these advertisements
coming in.
We also have our phones and so,like you know, really at any
aspect of the day, there's justso many things calling for your
attention Friends DMing you,commercials on the TV calling
for your attention.
You know you go to school oryou go to class, like there's
all these these things trying toget your attention and trying
(19:25):
to uh, pray for your time.
I would say it can be hardsometimes, but I really say,
take some time each day.
It doesn't have to be long, itcould be five minutes.
If you're a really, really busyperson, it could be five
minutes.
Or if you have some more time,I would say maybe even take 20,
30 minutes.
Or, if you really can do this,even an hour or two hours.
(19:45):
Put the phone away, kind of getby yourself and really just say
Lord, I'm going to commit thistime to praying to you.
I'm going to be still Know thatyou are God.
I'm going to say Lord, how canI glorify you today?
I'm starting, you know I'mstarting my morning or I'm
ending my day.
What are some things I can dotoday to make sure I am honoring
(20:06):
you?
What are some temptations maybethat I might experience today
and how can I maybe avoid someof those temptations?
Um, who do I need to call?
Who is somebody I haven'ttalked to in a while, or who is
somebody I'm going to see inperson today, where I'm like,
hey, I see Billy Bob, joe allthe time, or I see George all
the time, but I've never sharedthe gospel with him.
(20:26):
Maybe that's something I needto do.
And so those are two thingswhere I can say, hey, we have a
lot of stuff in our modern daytoday, but you still can make
time.
There still are ways to say, Ican put away things and I can go
into the word.
I can get a discipleshipmeeting with my pastor or with
my elder or with a friend and Ican say God, it's a busy modern
(20:49):
world, but you're important tome and I'm going to put all of
that aside because you are themost important thing on this
planet that matters and I'mgoing to spend time with you.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Stephen, your response was both practical and
rich and just kind of boiling itdown like discipleship you said
it best like it hasn't reallychanged, like the message hasn't
changed Maybe some of themethods have.
But kind of summing it up with,discipleship of today is you
know, you need to be followingJesus, you need to be pointing
people to Jesus and then, as youjust said, you need to be being
(21:21):
with Jesus.
Kind of remind me of Mary.
She had a lot to do.
Both Mary and Martha had a lotto do, but Mary chose the good
part, and that was just spendingtime at the feet of Jesus.
And on that note, steve, I wantyou just to think about the
person that may be just having atough season in their walk with
the Lord.
Maybe they just feel a littlestagnant.
(21:42):
What encouragement would yougive to that person, as well as
what encouragement would yougive to the person that may be
starting out their walk with theLord?
So just give the listener someencouragement.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
I've been there.
I've been there where I havefelt like my faith walk is
stagnant.
It's like I'm going through themotions, I'm reading the Bible,
I'm going through the motions,I'm reading the Bible, I'm going
to church, but but somethingfeels off to that person, Um,
and I'll get to the new believerin just a second.
But yeah, to that person Iwould say, um, I actually might
(22:14):
say something that might be alittle bit against the grain in
some sense, but, uh, you know, Iwould say, keep going through
the motions.
You know, it is good that yougo to church, it is good that
you are reading your Bible.
I love this example that, youknow, my pastor gives sometimes.
He says you know, yourrelationship with God in some
(22:34):
sense is like being married.
Right, we're called the brideof Christ.
You're not always going to feellovey-dovey feelings toward
your wife all the time.
You know, when you've beenmarried five, 10, 15, 20 years,
um, you know you, it's not.
It's not going to feel like thefirst date, right, it's not.
It's not always going to feelthat way.
When, when things are feelingoff with their marriage, Do you
(22:55):
stop going on coffee dates?
Do you kind of like, do youstop spending time with your
spouse.
Do you like take a break fromyour spouse?
No, you don't do that right.
You know that's a good way todeteriorate your relationship
really, really fast.
What you do is you still keepdoing those things and you know
you communicate.
I think about where there wasthe man who had a son who was
(23:16):
demon possessed, and Jesus goesand the man's really frustrated
and he's like you know, yourdisciples tried to heal my son
but they couldn't do it.
But if you know if you can doit, you know, please heal my son
.
And Jesus is just like if I can, anything is possible for those
who believe.
And then the man immediatelysays this very, very beautiful
(23:41):
thing that can be say, said as aprayer, almost.
He says Lord, I do believe,help me to overcome my belief.
The man recognized his heartwasn't in it, he was frustrated,
he was mad.
He's like my son is here, he'sdemon possessed.
These disciples were supposedto do it.
They haven't done it.
Here comes Jesus.
Can he do it?
Like that was his feeling.
He couldn't control his feeling, but what he could control is
(24:04):
he could say how am I going torespond to the feeling I have?
So I said a lot.
But to the person who's beingstagnant, I would recommend
reading the Psalms, particularlythe Psalms where this sounds a
little bit blasphemous, but Ipromise it isn't.
Listen to the Psalms, where thereader is kind of mad at God.
Right, it is not a sin to bemad at God.
(24:28):
You know, life is the way it is.
Sometimes, when you serve anall-powerful, all-knowing God,
you might be thinking God,you're perfect, you're
all-powerful.
Why can't you just fix myproblems?
Why am I even having problems?
It is okay to feel that way.
It is okay to be frustratedwith God.
(24:50):
It is okay to be angry with God.
What's not okay is to take thatfrustration and go and excuse
sin.
When you're feeling frustrated,when you're feeling angry, go to
God and say Lord, I'mfrustrated, I'm angry, I'm
feeling stagnant, I don't feellike you're there, I don't feel
like I don't feel the joy I wantto feel.
And then do what the guy saidSay help me to overcome my
(25:10):
unbelief.
Be honest with God.
God already knows everything inyour life.
Feel free to be honest with him.
Feel free to tell him thatyou're mad at him, that you're
frustrated with him.
And again, I know that soundslike a little bit blasphemous,
but God can take it right.
He loves you.
You're his child and you'reallowed to vent your
frustrations with him at times.
So that would be my firstpractical tip.
Psalms has a lot of good stuffwith that the book of Job if you
(25:34):
read Job, there's a lot offrustrations that are expressed
in that book.
Lamentations Lamentations isalso another great book of the
Bible that you can read.
So if you're feeling stagnantin your faith or if you're
feeling frustrated, I would say,hey, those are some great books
to go to.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
See, I'm so glad that you took the time to kind of
divide up that question and howyou just spoke to the person
that's stagnant in their walkwith the Lord, because what you
said is so important, becauseyou know, a lot of times I think
we need to go to church.
You know, wear our Sunday best,act like you know.
Nothing is wrong with this,this cookie cutter Christianity.
But life can get messy and lifecan be hard, and I, walk with
(26:10):
the Lord can be hard.
Not that God is hard, but ourlife can be hard.
I'm so glad that you spoke tothat.
This makes the same that God isbig enough to handle our doubt.
God is big enough to handle allof our mess and we shouldn't
allow our doubt.
We shouldn't allow our mess.
We shouldn't allow thecircumstances of life to draw us
away from the Lord and just touse it as an excuse to sin.
(26:31):
But that should be somethingthat should draw us to the Lord.
So I'm so glad because maybethere's a person listening right
now, maybe just going through atough time, and that
encouragement was for you.
You may feel like you're faraway from God, but you want to
be close to him.
That's a good thing that youwant to be close to him.
The dangerous thing is when youfeel far away from God and you
just don't care.
And so the fact that you wantto be close to him and you feel
(26:52):
like it's a dry season and, likeI say once again, you want to
be close to him, you're in agood place to be.
So, stephen, I'm so glad thatyou took time to break that down
that God is big enough tohandle all of our frustrations.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
So for the new believer, this is an exciting
time.
I remember when I first becamea Christian, just life felt so
light and freeing and I just wasreally, really overwhelmed with
joy about who Jesus was, whathe had done for me on the cross,
how he had resurrected from thedead, and I just kind of had
(27:27):
butterflies just thinking aboutwow, the Lord of the universe
loves me.
That's amazing.
Here's the encouragement I'mgoing to give to the new
believer, and this isn't tohamper your joy.
This isn't to say you know thatyou need to get all serious and
you know, sullen all of asudden, but life is going to
happen and life is going tohappen very fast.
(27:49):
You know, whether you become aChristian as a child or whether
you become a Christian at,whether you become a Christian
at 50 or 60, life's going tohappen.
You know we can't foresee allthe things, things in life.
But you know, sometimes youlose that job or you don't get
that job you really, really wantit.
Uh, sometimes you start to havemarital problems with your
spouse.
You know, uh, you get marriedand you're like, wow, things are
(28:11):
going to be great and amazing.
And then, um, you know, asthings happen, you know,
conflict happens.
You guys might not see eye toeye on things with their
families, things with finances,things with where should you
live, what kind of people areyou associating with?
And all of a sudden, that joyyou first had in the Lord, all
of a sudden, you know, you mightstart to get nervous and hurt
(28:32):
and doubt again.
And so I would say you are notalone.
But you need discipleshipbecause you know, nobody knows
how to deal with those things.
Right, uh, you know.
Uh, god forbid if some of this,some of these things will
happen.
But, like you know, how do yoube a Christian when you've lost
your job?
How do you be a Christian whenyou were in a relationship where
(28:56):
you thought you were going toget married to that person, but
now the relationship's ended?
Or you know, hey, sometimesthis happens too You're married
to the person and then divorcehappens.
This is like whoa, how do Icontinue to follow the Lord when
something like really, reallytragic like that happens?
And that's where discipleshipis so important, when you have
an older Christian that can walkalongside you and has either
(29:18):
experienced some of those thingsthemselves or at least has
talked to and counseled peoplethrough, has either experienced
some of those things themselves,or at least has talked to and
counseled people through thathave encountered some of those
things.
What happens is, when thosestorms in life hit, there's
already someone that's beenwalking with you for days, weeks
, months, years and even decadesand it's like, okay, I'm not
alone, I have somebody that Ican run to because they've been
(29:41):
walking with me for all thistime.
Uh, but two, um, they canprepare you for some of those
things, right?
Uh, you know, I remember 18year old me, you know, uh, I was
like, oh, I'm handsome, I'myoung, I'm confident, I'm going
to, I'm going to be a greathusband.
One day I did not know the firstsingle thing about being a good
godly man, pursuing women oranything like that.
(30:03):
As I started to read thescripture and I would read
things like Jesus saying hey,even look at a woman with lust,
you've committed adultery inyour heart.
You know, 18 year old me waslike oh, I do that a lot.
I need to stop doing that,right.
So it's one of those thingswhere when you're a new believer
you're going to read things inscripture, you're going to
(30:24):
encounter things where you'relike I didn't know that was a
sin, but now I know it.
But if you're not beingdiscipled you might continue to
do a lot of sins and you don'teven realize you're doing it
because you're not gettingproper discipleship.
So I know I've said a lot ofthings, no, but really just if I
could summarize that in twoseconds One, find someone to
disciple you so that you knowwhat God requires and how to
(30:47):
live the obedient Christian life.
But two, also, new believer,get someone to disciple you so
that when not if when the stormsof life come, you have somebody
that already has been therewith you consistently and they
can help walk and love youthrough some of those very
difficult things in life.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
We're going to drop the mic right there, stephen.
Thank you so much for joiningthe show and just offering the
honesty, the practicality andjust offering insights.
I really appreciate you andyour time.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Absolutely, thank you .
Thank you so much, paul.
I really appreciate being onthis show and keep up the good
work.
I know you are blessing so, somany people with this podcast
and just administering yourpersonal life, so keep doing
what you're doing, brother.
You are blessing so, so manyand the work you're doing
glorifies our Lord Jesus Christvery, very tremendously.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Amen, and I appreciate that.
I love doing this.
This is another way of doingministry.
It also gives me aquote-unquote excuse to rekindle
friendships and to go back intime, if you will, like I say as
we met on that mission trip.
And same thing to you just whatyou're doing with social media
and just using that platform topoint people to Christ.
Kudos to you.
Remind me of the Apostle Paul.
(32:04):
He did so much ministry withthe paper and pen.
And here we are.
We got the internet, we gotsocial media, but that's another
story for another day.
Speaking of social media,Stephen, tell the people how can
they connect with you.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Yeah, my username on TikTok andInstagram is Sahil the Disciple
.
That's spelled S-A-H-I-L andthen the disciple.
So, yeah, you can follow me onthose platforms.
I'm also on.
I know it used to be calledTwitter, it's now X.
I'm also on X, so if you wantedto follow me on there as well
(32:36):
same username you can just typein Sahil the Disciple so you can
find me there.
And yeah, I talk about theology, I talk about relationships, I
talk about Christian living.
I also make memes because, youknow, life can be very, very
serious sometimes.
So sometimes, you know, I thinkwe just need a good laugh, so I
also make memes.
So if you are into any of thosethings I just talked about,
feel free to find me on thoseplatforms so I'm going to leave
(33:00):
that link in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
I recommend that you connect with him on social media
.
Great guy to follow and,speaking of you, thank you so
much for tuning in today andlistening.
I really pray that this episodewill spur you on to good works
and that it will inspire you tokeep following Jesus, no matter
the cost.
So until next time, go, be allthat God has called you to be
(33:40):
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