ADHD in Women with Dr. Jennifer Dall: Diagnosed at 53

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What happens when a neurodivergent specialist discovers she's been living with undiagnosed ADHD for over five decades? Dr. Jennifer Dall takes us through her extraordinary journey from confusion to clarity after receiving her ADHD diagnosis at age 53.

Despite her doctorate in educational psychology and 25 years as an educator, Dr. Dall's ADHD remained hidden beneath societal misconceptions and outdated diagnostic approaches that failed to recognize how ADHD manifests differently in women. She candidly reveals the emotional toll of being gaslit by healthcare providers who saw only her achievements while missing her internal struggles.

This conversation shatters stereotypes about what ADHD "should" look like, especially in accomplished women. Dr. Dall unpacks invisible symptoms that society misinterprets as character flaws—time blindness that makes you perpetually early or late, proprioception issues that have you constantly bumping into doorways, and rejection sensitivity that turns minor comments into deep wounds.

You'll discover practical, holistic approaches that work with your neurodivergent brain rather than fighting against it. From the Pomodoro technique and body doubling to three-day project sprints, Dr. Dall shares the strategies that helped her reclaim her life. She explores how grief and trauma compound ADHD challenges, drawing from her personal experience after losing her husband to suicide three years ago.

For anyone questioning whether they might have ADHD—particularly women who've been dismissed with depression or anxiety diagnoses—Dr. Dall offers validation and a roadmap forward. Whether pursuing formal diagnosis or embracing self-discovery, she emphasizes that understanding your unique brain wiring is the first step toward authentic living.

Connect with Dr. Jennifer Dall at ADHDholistically.com and grab her free guide featuring quick, practical hacks for thriving with ADHD. If this conversation resonates with you or someone you love, share it and join a growing community redefining what it means to live successfully with neurodivergence.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne.
Today we're diving into thebeautiful chaos of ADHD,
resilience and the power ofself-discovery with someone who
truly understands the journey.
Our guest is Dr Jennifer Dahl,founder of ADHD Holistically.
She's a grief-informedneurodivergence specialist with

(00:32):
over 25 years of experience asan educator, adhd coach, yoga
instructor and grief educator.
Dr Jennifer brings a deeplypersonal, compassionate and
holistic approach to helpingneurodivergent individuals not
just survive but truly thrive.

(00:52):
She helps women reframe theirADHD narratives and unlock their
full potential.
Her work also extends totherapists, life coaches and HR
professionals, offeringcomprehensive training to better
support neurodivergent clientsand employees.
And I cannot tell you howneeded this is.

(01:12):
Get ready for real tools,honest insights and a
conversation that might justshift how you see yourself or
someone you love.
Thank you so much for beinghere today, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited about talkingwith you.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, I have to tell you, as someone with autism and
ADHD, I very much am lookingforward to this conversation.
You were diagnosed with ADHD atthe age of 53 and have
developed quite the practicalholistic tool belt.
It says, for one thing, so muchabout who you are that you

(01:48):
developed your own way of copingthroughout your life, but it
must have been so frustratingfor you to have a reason for
what was going on for you for solong.
There are so many people thathave walked this journey.
We all want validation and adiagnosis so we know how to
treat what is going on with us.
Talk about that emotional toll.

(02:08):
You went through living withundiagnosed or misdiagnosed ADHD
for so long.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, you're exactly right.
It has been very emotional andI know so many people, so many
women, understand this.
Being in the age group I'm at,even with being in education and
being a social educationteacher and having a doctorate
in educational psychology,there's just so much information
that nobody had and nobody knew, and so it has been really hard

(02:38):
.
I, in my journey, I have begunto suspect things just because I
have this knowledge and thisexperience.
Some of my suspecting came frommy students.
I taught high school a lot.
I really liked high school.
When I first started.
Most of my kids were boys.
Gradually we'd get more and moregirls and I would look at some

(02:59):
of those girls who came in withan ADHD diagnosis and I'd be
like huh girls who came in withan ADHD diagnosis and I'd be
like huh, that's reallyinteresting.
And so I think about it.
But I would ask people I knewin education or whatever, people
who knew things about ADHD doyou think?
Or I think?
And they'd say, oh no, youcan't.
Possibly you have done all ofthese things.

(03:20):
You, you know they.
Even people within it stillthink of ADHD as like this
eight-year-old boy who'sbouncing all over the place,
right, right, and so, oh no, youcan't possibly, and I would
learn more and I would see morethings that I would do or about
me.
I was like huh, and I'd asksomebody, and sometimes I didn't

(03:42):
want to ask because maybe Ididn't really want to know, but
it was just a long time of that,and so then, kind of, I guess,
being gaslit even by myself, bypeople who cared about me, by
doctors, by therapists, college,and I know you just recently
had a show about like empty nestand oh yeah, your kids living,

(04:11):
and that one really really spoketo me.
But it was hard and I went tomy healthcare providers and it
was okay, you're depressed.
Here's some antidepressantswhich I am now.
She's in law school now I amnow trying to go off of and if
anyone who's been on those knows, it is a very, very difficult
thing to do so.
But back to that, when I wentin, there was never any look at.

(04:35):
Could it be these other things?
It was just here.
Here's a medication, take this,go on.
Like I say, like with manypeople, it's just this ongoing
process of learning things.
You know, we all came to thepandemic and we all slowed down
and quieted down and startedgetting more information and

(04:55):
just the number of times wherejust little little checks kept
going off until it was.
We need to talk about this.
I think part of it also is whenI was young.
You know, in overtime there'sjust not been a lot of research
and knowledge about women andgirls.
So much has been focused onboys, so much has been focused
on the type of ADHD that is veryimpulsive outward as opposed to

(05:19):
other kinds, especially withmany girls, where you're quiet
or you're inside.
It doesn't mean my mind's notimpulsive, it doesn't mean my
mind is not going all over theplace, but more information has
come about.
I started hearing more, Istarted really internalizing it
and looking at what was going onwith my students and then I

(05:40):
started advocating and pushingfor myself.
And there's still people whothey may not believe me.
It's still.
They just don't have theinformation, and that's true.
And one of the reasons I alsolike working with professionals
is I also deal with grief.
My husband died suddenly justover three years ago from

(06:01):
suicide and I have a reallygreat therapist who knows trauma
, who knows all of that.
But there's also been manytimes when I've been teaching
her and she knows that and sheappreciates that and so
understanding that there arepeople that you come across who
don't understand what ADHD is,the connection between ADHD or

(06:21):
autism or any of these thingsand other things depression and
grief, and how often peoplewomen may be diagnosed with
depression or anxiety instead ofADHD or autism, when it could
be both, or it could be both,and those whole roads of not
then finding solutions thatreally work for you.

(06:42):
I know I just really went downa rabbit hole there.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Well, I mean, you touched on something, I think,
because you know we wouldn'ttreat cancer with heart disease
protocol.
So why do you think it's sohard for women to get diagnosed?
How can clinicians do better, Ithink, for?

Speaker 2 (07:02):
one thing they don't have a lot of knowledge.
Clinicians do better, I think.
For one thing, they don't havea lot of knowledge.
Clinicians, teachers, the worldout there, whether you yourself
may or may not have ADHD or youhave a child that has ADHD, but
there's just not a lot ofknowledge.
With any kind of researchthere's a lag.
The research happens and thenit has to be verified and then
published or go out.
So there's this huge lag and Ithink people just don't know and

(07:28):
they don't know what they don'tknow, which happens a lot.
Right, you know, I've heard inmiddle school the frightening
small portion of their time thatis spent on things like this,
as well as other healthconditions, especially with
menopause, things like that.
So I think it's just not outthere and until it starts to

(07:48):
impact you or someone you knowor someone really comes forward
and tells you about it, I thinkit's probably just not even on
their minds, to be honest, youknow, before I or you know other
people that I know have goneinto health professionals to be
diagnosed and they're going tobe making that decision whether
we have ADHD or not.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
They have us either sit in the lobby or at home
before we get there, filling outpages and pages of questions
and it's like describe yourselffrom one to five or extremely to
not at all questions.
And you know, I found myselftrying hard not to really read
too much into them, because justanswering the question is

(08:30):
difficult, because sometimes itdepends on the day, depends on
the scenario, depends on if Ihad enough sleep that night.
You know, not everything isblack and white and when you go
in there, oftentimes, and if youdo something that you don't
even know that you did, they'relike oh no, you don't have it, I

(08:51):
just saw you do this, sothere's no way you could have it
.
And you know it can be sofrustrating in the hands of some
being in the hands of somebodyelse that is making huge
decision about our life.
Can you speak on this at all?
Because you know, I think thisis a huge reason why so many of
us are not diagnosed.

(09:11):
Should there be separate formsfor like men and women.
I mean what needs to bedifferent?

Speaker 2 (09:17):
I think the whole process needs to be looked at.
Like you said, you can go in andyou can fill out this form and,
depending on so many thingsthat day, yeah, you fill out
differently.
And so, thinking about that,you may, before you even go in
and you can fill out this formand, depending on so many things
that day, yeah, you fill outdifferently.
And so, thinking about that,you may, before you even go in
there, think about other timeswhen, whether it was just a
simple personality quiz orsomething, or at work, you were
given something and you wentthrough that same process.
That's very hard.

(09:38):
I think a lot of it, not justboys and girls, but also getting
into the different types ofADHD and the different ages.
Some of the assessment toolsseem like they're really geared
towards children.
I'll give an example.
I have a really good friend whohas ADHD.
She's also wondering, she hasautism.

(09:58):
So she went through the process, through one of the companies
that will assess you, and sheput me down as someone for them
to reach out to and they sent mea survey and, having been in
education, I've seen thesesurveys for kids and it seemed
like so many of the things thatthey asked about her I felt
weren't appropriate.
And I told her this.
I said I don't know what yourresults are going to say,

(10:19):
because I see you as this person, as this woman who's in her 50s
, who's successful, who's donethese things, who's masked, who
has education, who knows allthese things.
She knows she's supposed toshower and she then will.
You know, the pandemic may havechanged all of our
relationships with that a littlebit, but it's like when you're

(10:39):
looking at whether or not a kiddoes something or makes eye
contact, she knows she'ssupposed to make eye contact.
She knows she's supposed tomake eye contact.
She knows she's supposed to dothese things.
And so that assessment, and thenalso back to the ADHD.
You know they want to know.
Well, what did your teacher say?
I was in school in the 70s and80s, you know either said I
needed to talk more or I neededto stop passing notes and

(11:02):
talking to my friends all thetime.
You know you need to study forcalculus and not just the
classes you like.
You know they wouldn't.
Even if I knew where thoserecords were, I don't know that
they're going to be that helpfulfor a large number of people.
And so that whole process, likeyou said filling out those forms
, getting the information, maybegetting relatives or people you

(11:24):
knew to remember and be honestabout it.
These are all really bigfactors.
So, yes, back to male, female,but also I would say, age group,
because trying to diagnosepeople who are a little bit
older versus teenagers and kids,especially given the way our
world is so different, our liveswere different I think it needs

(11:47):
to be a much more holisticapproach, and I know that then
some people just don't want togo through it.
You know there's a lot ofgatekeeping, there can be long
lists to get assessed, it cancost money, it can be scary, and
you can go through all this andstill be told, like you said no
, you have a doctorate, you knowyou have your own business, you

(12:07):
can't possibly have this.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
So then, where are you left?
How about?
Women are naturally highachievers.
We work really hard, we arepleasers.
You know we go around beingeverybody's person that we have
to do things for.
You know, whether it's our kidsor our parents or whatever our
partner, you know we're justthat person and we can multitask

(12:33):
.
I mean, that's what we do.
So you know that in itself canappear like well, you can do all
of these things.
What's going on on the inside,though?

Speaker 2 (12:44):
You know the self-talk, the stories, the
exhaustion.
I mean, can we be honest thatdoing that at that level is
exhausting?

Speaker 1 (12:54):
It really is.
How about can you get to sleepat night because you can't turn
your brain off after you've doneall of these things?
How about you can't findanything that you just put
someplace, because that's me?
And how come there't findanything that you just put
someplace because that's me?

Speaker 2 (13:07):
And how come?
There's the things that you doand the things that you don't do
, based on interest and all ofthat and other people not
understanding Like, why haven'tyou?
You know you have boxes ofstuff to donate in the car why
haven't you taken them in?
Don't you see them?
I see them, but then I forget.
And you know, and some peopleyou know partners, friends,

(13:30):
bosses sometimes they don'tunderstand and they take it in a
different way and then thestory should tell yourself about
that right, well, maybe havingmore questions about masking on
those, because I think thatwe're pretty much talking about
masking here.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, so if they had a whole section on masking, that
would be great, because I thinkmore people would be diagnosed.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
And perhaps you know different kinds of scenarios
like do you do something likethis?
Has anyone ever said that youdo this?
Do you ever find yourself doingthis?
Different kinds of things whereyou're masking, you know, right
, even explaining how you goabout certain things.
One thing that people say to methat irritates me is oh, just
do it, it's so easy.
And yeah, whatever we'retalking about is so easy.

(14:19):
The laundry is not hard, but ittakes many more steps than
someone who just does do itknows.
So even like we ask questionsabout masks and questions about
if you had to do this, how wouldyou do it?
And listening to, is it I wouldjust do it or is it?
Oh, okay.
And then there's all thesesteps that you realize you have

(14:40):
to do and backtracking.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, Somebody just said to me something that was
just so simple.
Well, why don't you just dothat?
And I said, well, that justadds a whole nother layer to my
morning.
You know, and it's true.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
And as back to as women you're expected to.
You're supposed to write all ofthese things and yeah, and some
of the things I've learned todo and I understand it's a
little bit of a privilege, butespecially since I've been empty
nest and single is orderingfrom some meal kits, sometimes
having my groceries delivered.

(15:17):
If I do that, then at least I'meating.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Right, it does make it simpler, it does.
So what happens when we walkaway and we get that?
No, what should we do?

Speaker 2 (15:29):
I would first of all take a deep breath, think about
it.
Maybe they've given you reasonswhy no, and think about it, and
perhaps whether it's atherapist who actually knows
things, or a friend or somebodyin your life that you could then
sit down with and talk itthrough, because, in a way, it's

(15:49):
this person's opinion.
It is not like a COVID testwhere you are positive, or a
pregnancy test where you are oryou are not.
Okay, maybe you don't have ADHD, but these are still things
that are going on, that areimpacting your life, and so the
most important thing, I think,is then seeing that and working
with that and and finding waysto make your life better, not

(16:12):
not to be able to be moreproductive we don't need to be
more productive, we need to rest.
But okay, whether this doctorsays yes or no that I have ADHD,
these are the things that mademe think I did and this is how
they're impacting my life andlike, one by one, what is
something I can do?

(16:32):
Is my boss saying something?
So this is impacting my work?
Is this impacting myrelationships?
Is this impacting my ability to, you know, eat healthy or
whatever is important to me?
And so believing yourself youcould go to another doctor you
know in a second and then alsodecide how much that piece of

(16:56):
paper means to you really.
Because whether you'reself-diagnosed or you're
diagnosed, if you see thesethings in your life and you see
that they're struggles, thenlet's work on finding ways to
make a little bit better,whether it's the low-hanging
fruit or whether it's more likethis is really impacting my job
and I might get fired and I needa job.

(17:17):
And doing that Because if youget into this where, well, I
have to have the diagnosis andthe doctor said no, well, in all
kinds of health issues, we allknow stories of people who were
told something that was then nottrue.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Yeah, second opinions are really good and I really
don't like sometimes the feelingthat they have.
The diagnostic person hasfeeling like they are over God,
over us, in a way where I'mmaking this decision about you
and, nope, you don't have it.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
Agreed Because, whether we're talking about ADHD
characteristics or somephysical health characteristic,
in a trait you know, a coughlosing weight whatever these are
actually happening to you, it'syour story.
It's your existence Right.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
You know yourself better than anybody.
You know yourself.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
So let's try to find some support from somebody who
believes you and supports you.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yes, Did you feel differently after you were
diagnosed officially when youwere 53?
Did it change your perspectiveabout yourself?

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, I felt a little more validated in a way.
But also then I think and youmay have gone through this, I
think with a lot of peoplethere's kind of a grieving
period, a loss period, wondering, wow, what if we had known this
five years ago, 10 years ago,20 years ago?
You know what would my life andwhat would this decision have

(18:47):
been?
I mentioned that I'm titratingoff an antidepressant that is
very, very challenging to comeoff of, like what if that hadn't
happened?
That's a solid thing right nowin my mind, but that's not what
happened.
So this is the path I'm on andthis, I know, allows me to help
people and talk to people andunderstand other people who go

(19:09):
through this.
It felt a little validated, butif they had been like no, I
think that it would have hurtand still I would hope that I
would then say but I still seethis and I still know this, and
I think it's a little bit easiernow.
I think there's more of adiscussion about you don't have

(19:29):
to be, you can self-diagnose Ifyou see this is what's going on,
own it and do something aboutit.
I also know that a lot of women, a lot of adults, find out when
their kids end up beingassessed somebody at school.
I've heard that yes Is there anhereditary component and they're
like oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah, you're right, because they just didn't
diagnose very much back then.
I was like that as a kid.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
What's the problem?
Oh right, Well, this is theproblem.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it wasn't even a thing.
I mean, when I was growing up,there were there was not very
many people who had autism orADHD.
We just didn't even talk aboutthose things.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
So we didn't talk about it, it wasn't labeled.
Often it was marked off as,like a personality thing.
You're just lazy, you'reargumentative, you're
disagreeable.
Right, you're just lazy, you'reargumentative, you're
disagreeable.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Right, you're the bouncy kid in the class or
whatever.
Yeah, you don't pay attention,right.
Right, we did touch on masking,so can you define what masking
is for people that might notunderstand and just kind of?

Speaker 2 (20:43):
maybe say what it looks like in women and just
kind of maybe say what it lookslike in women.
Okay, so masking is like, well,basically putting on a mask and
so it's pretending it's beingsomething you're not.
People with ADHD and autism Ithink are really good at,
especially women who havelearned to do this.
I can see what you want out ofme and I can put that face on.
So it's almost like putting ona different face.

(21:05):
It's talking a certain way,acting a certain way, covering
up things.
So with certain people is onelook.
And then maybe when you have afriend who has ADHD or autism or
is just very open and you're atotally different person because
you can relax the mask off andyou're actually yourself.

(21:26):
And so masking is hiding yourdistraction or hiding your
disorganization, or hiding andnot asking for help or telling
people, because you feel likethat gives you safety, because
it's not safe to put it outthere in the world and that is
tiring and it's not really aneffective.

(21:47):
I mean, we do it, it's astrategy we learned.
But maybe think about somebodywho, if you think you mask
somebody, a situation where youkind of think you're masking and
a situation where you are aperson you know you don't have
to mask with and then sit thereand think about that Like, wow,
which do I prefer?
Which is actually better, andkind of not get mad at yourself,

(22:11):
but just like realize what'sbeen going on and how you've
been trained to mask.
So, just like you're wearing amask for illness or anybody's
wearing a mask for any reasonHalloween, you wear a mask and
you're a different person in away.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Right, it's a performance.
Yes, In a way I mean when I goin A performance guessing what I
think you want.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
It's not.
I'm an actor and I'm playingOthello and this is the role
it's.
I don't know you, so I'mguessing what I think you want
and I'm giving that or like inschool.
You know, this is what you have, this is school me.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
Right, and that's when, lots of times, when you
get home, you just let it allout and you really are exhausted
.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, and then you might not know why and you might
get down on yourself.
All I did is go to an event foran hour, but it was a bunch of
people.
I don't know.
I tend to be shy, but I had tobe a certain way.
It was before I talked to a fewpeople and you could just pass
out or stare at the TV orwhatever you do.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, you know, before I have to go to an event
like that, I oftentimes will goearly.
I'll look around, I'll see whoI have to.
You know what my expectationsare, where I'm going to be
sitting and that kind of thing.
And it really does help meprepare because you know I am
scared to death.

(23:41):
Really on the inside I mightappear like I'm not, but you
know these type of situations,like with you on Zoom, and that
you know those are a lot easierbecause you know we're not
together and that kind of thing,but you put me in a situation
where I'm not comfortable.
I'm going to act completelydifferent.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yes, and that completely different for me
could be not saying a peep, justshrinking up, shutting down,
shutting down, or if I thenconnect with you, that
oversharing, nonstop talking.
I don't know if you find thatwhen you click with me, who's
like that?
I've done that.
Yeah, and not a lot of room inbetween, unless it's a very I

(24:26):
don't want to say scriptured,but structured kind of setting.
Right, you are here for a thing, like if I go and I volunteer
at something and this is aspecific thing I'm ushering at
this theater, I know the rules,but if somebody has a call out
for we need volunteers to cometo this thing and you don't know

(24:49):
what you're doing, it can feelvery unsettling, it can be very
hard.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, I have a lot of scripts in my head as I go into
situations and I know, likethis is what I'm going to say,
and then I'm good.
And then if it goes beyond that, I'm like, oh shoot, what do I
say beyond that?

Speaker 2 (25:08):
I'm like oh shoot, what do I say?
Yeah, yeah.
So random small talk is hard.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
It is very much so, because it goes outside of the
script.
Yeah, yeah, you know, withwomen and understanding and
being able to spot ADHD, thereare a lot of invisible and
misunderstood symptoms.
Could you talk about some ofthose?

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Sure.
So it's going to vary.
Like everything, it varies withthe person, where they are,
what they've learned, how theydo.
I would say and I talk aboutthis with kids and with adults
it can be that you're reallyreally good at some things and
some things it's not that you'renot good at them, you just
don't do them.
And so it can show up withpeople not understanding.

(25:59):
When you're into something, youtotally go all out, you deep
dive, you hyper focus on it.
But when I ask you to dosomething else that you don't
want to, it's like youphysically can't do it.
But when I ask you to dosomething else that you don't
want to, it's like youphysically can't do it.
It's not that you're beingstubborn or defiant, it's just
there you go.
There's like this, youphysically can't do it, and

(26:20):
people who don't understand thatdon't understand that they take
it all kinds of ways.
There's the saying that peoplewith ADHD are also always late,
and and some of them are, but Iwas always really early and it's
not like some people are earlybecause they don't want to be
late.
I'm early or I'm late, but ifI'm early it's because I can't I

(26:42):
know I can't adequately figureout the amount of time to get
there, even with, like a mapsprogram, okay, it's 30 minutes,
okay, and then I need to parkOkay, 40,.
But then I'm probably gettingthere an hour and a half early,
cause I just there's.
This time.
That time is different and I'vebeen trained to.

(27:03):
Yeah, so you know it's.
It can be like you're alwaysreally early and you cover that,
you mask.
Oh, I always have a book or Ihave a podcast or, depending
where it is, I go for a walk orI get a coffee.
You know, like I planned this,like no, this was my plan, but
it wasn't really a plan, it wasjust a mask to cover that up,

(27:27):
right, yes, you know.
Oh, I know.
Oh, I have to be there at eight.
Okay, no problem.
And then all of a sudden it'sfive to eight, and it's not that
I didn't value or anything.
So then I go back to.
I'm much more okay, I'm leavingvery early, not because I'm one
of those people that has to beearly, but because time is just

(27:48):
a little iffy, you aredescribing my life.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
I mean, you hit it Just the other day.
I had to be somewhere and Ilike over and over again, and I
was talking with somebody okay,well, we have to be somewhere
here at this time and it takesus 30 minutes to get there, so
then I have to do this and thattakes me about 20 minutes, and
so then, and, and then, like anhour later, I had to do it again

(28:14):
because I couldn't remember youknow really what I had just
said.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
And, like you know, another joke or meme is like oh,
if you make an appointment atthree o'clock, your day's gone,
like you can't do anything, yes,before that.
And how do you explain that?
Oh, my god, I'll go to worktill 12, I'll take lunch and
then I'll like.
But but this if we needpreparation time and we need

(28:42):
recovery time, recovery time isreally important too and I've
learned that I still strugglewith it because I think I
shouldn't, but even like takinga trip or anything like that, I
really need to block out acouple of days afterwards.
But then I told myself aboutthat, like, why are you on
vacation?
You don't need to come back,you haven't been doing things.

(29:04):
Those are some things.
A lot of it has to do with timeand organization and emotional
reaction.
Um, emotional like uh,rejection, sensitivity, just
getting really upset aboutsomething that other people
think isn't that important.
At least for me, and I know alot of other people like it is

(29:27):
this deep wound and other peopledon't see that or understand
that.
You know you're being toosensitive and so to the extent
that you can like sit with it,journal through it or write with
it and then get to the otherside of it, it's better.
But emotional regulation can behard.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Absolutely.
Yeah, you're hitting everysingle one.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Personally one of my best friends, the one I was
talking about with ADHD and theautism.
You know I have learned andthis has taken me a really long
time to say the texts are likeRSD is real.
Are you mad at me?
And she'll say no, but a lot ofpeople you can't say that to,
so I'll be like why, what?

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah, I can be oversensitive too at times.
You know I know who I can't askthat and I know who I can.
And you know I do have oneparticular friend and she has
autism too, and we'll go backand forth.
Oh, I haven't heard from you ina week.
Are you mad at me?
You know that kind of thing.

(30:36):
Or I messaged you and youdidn't you didn't text me back.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
What's wrong?
You know that kind of thing,but I try to not do that to
people.
I know I can't do that too.
Yeah, and there's, there's justso many things and and I think
one of the interesting things is, you know, reading those
surveys or listening to people,or you know, whether on social
media or whatever, and thelittle ones where they talk
about one little trait that theydidn't realize.
And then, if you realizebecause I mean I continue to
learn things you know, likewalking into things, you know

(30:58):
the proprioception, the body inspace thing.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Oh my gosh, you have that too, you do.
Oh my gosh, mine is so bad.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
Because I haven't run a lot lately but I used to run
like I could run a marathon andmaybe get a blister.
But I can't walk through adoorway or past a table without
smacking into it, oh my gosh.
Oh, it totally is.
It's a proprioception, an areain space.
I had trouble with stairs.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
If you have trouble with stairs, and that was one of
the things I always hated toask somebody, because I was
afraid something like more like,do I have a tumor?
You know those ways you go?
Yeah Well, my spatial is offeverywhere I go, especially if I
walk into a very open space, Ican actually feel like I have to
hold on to something.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
That's ADHD.
You may be afraid to say to adoctor because they're not going
to believe you or you're dyingRight.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
Oh my gosh, that is so.
Not that I'm glad that you havethat, but I'm glad to find
somebody else that truly getsthat, because I have that all
the time and I also knock overeverything.
Um, and there could be.
It could be a huge room, butI'm gonna walk into that table
oh, I'm gonna spell it.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
There was an apple store in town that had glass.
I don't know if they were glassor plastic, whatever, but they
were clear, see-through stairsto the second story.
Yeah, it dizzy like, likealmost sick to my stomach, gosh,
trying to walk up or stairs Ihad when I worked in an office
and like, usually stairs arelike this, but like this part

(32:39):
was open.
So there was stairs, stairs,stair, but it was open.
Yes, oh, I hated that staircase.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
I can't do things like that either, and my mom, my
mom never let me pour anything,because I always spilled
everything.
So all my spatial, no depthperception, you know all that
kind of stuff, yeah, very, veryoff.
I mean, you are speaking mylanguage?

(33:06):
Oh my gosh, this is sointeresting to me.
You are speaking my language?
Oh my gosh, this is sointeresting to me.
So you know, though, you'vebecome successful in spite of
all of this.
What was your career path like?
I mean, what kind of things?

Speaker 2 (33:21):
did you encounter along the way?
So I ended up in teaching and Iwas teaching and I was teaching
mostly like special ed andgeneral ed and English.
That fit me, I think, in lotsof ways, because there's so much
structure Like we don't likestructure.
Don't tell me what to do, but Ialso have to have structure.
Teaching in a high school.

(33:42):
You have bells, you havecalendars, you have and that's
one of the things since I left Ihave really really struggled
with is time.
I have some structures in placethat work really well, so it
allowed some of that.
When I then moved into more ofan administrative role, it was

(34:02):
not good because the rules, allof that was just not good for me
.
And so realization, especiallywith the pandemic, I wanted to
be able to go out.
The rules, all of that was justnot good for me.
And so realization, especiallywith the pandemic, I wanted to
be able to go out and help otherpeople and talk to other people
and also realize the thingsthat have happened to me, how
they impacted, and I always feelgood when I listen to a podcast

(34:24):
or I read something and I hearsomebody talking and they're
talking to me.
That can make such a differencein that day, like oh, here's
somebody who responds, I'm notalone.
I know there's a lot of peoplewith ADHD who are entrepreneurs,
but it's also hard that outthere bit you know.

(34:45):
But I just feel like at thispoint in my life, at this stage
of my life, just wanting to makecontact with people and connect
with people and just helpsomebody in some way, because
that's what means so much to me,when I hear something from
somebody, or just you knowtalking to you and you validate
what I've said yes, you know,yes.

(35:06):
And if anybody listening islike, yes, these two women
they're talking about this.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yes, yeah, you know, one of the things that you
touched was about time, and ifall of a sudden I have time, I
am lost, like I don't know whatto do.
Something accountable do?
It is structured, if it'splanned, if I I mean when I wake
up I have boom, boom, boom,boom.

(35:32):
I am good.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
But all of a sudden, if I've got time, it's like I
don't know what to do, Eventhough I have like 10 things to
do.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
I go from thing to thing to thing and it wasn't
structured for me, so I'm reallynot getting anything done
because it's just not structured.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
When I just say outside of the classroom, like
there was a meeting and then itwas canceled, right, other
people would be, oh great, Ihave an hour.
And I would feel like, oh mygosh, no what.
I'm in an office space, I go toa co-working place because, yes
, I could be at home, yeah, butI'm not doing work, so I have to

(36:13):
get up and go to someplace elseand train my brain.
Okay, I'm working here.
My calendar and journal museumthat I call it.
You know, always buying a newone.
This one's going to do, and Ifinally let go of some of the
guilt about that.
And if I buy a calendar and Iuse it for three months and then
I get bored with it and I findanother one, who cares?

(36:36):
You know there's a lot of guiltin the ADHD world about buying
these and then you don't usethem or you don't use them for
very long.
Okay, I used for three months.
It kept my life together, yeah,oh, here's another pretty one
who cares.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
You know the ADHD brain is so interesting to me.
Can?

Speaker 2 (37:04):
you share some of your go-to strategies that help
calm the chaos that's going onin our brains.
So things that really help meare sometimes just shutting down
, letting myself just gosomewhere quiet Okay, with my
dog or outside.
I live somewhere where it'seasy to go outside a lot of the
time.
Just kind of getting outsidecan really help.
Some of the things that reallyhelp me to get things done that

(37:27):
I really rely on are thePomodoro method and body
doubling.
Okay, what's that?
Okay, which one?
Both of them, yeah, okay.
So Pomodoro, it's this ideathat you work for a certain
amount of time and then you takea break, and the traditional is
like 25 minutes, and there'sapps where you just set a timer.
Okay, so I work for 25 minutesand then I take a break, and

(37:51):
I'll probably do that like twice, and then the third time I take
a longer break.
Okay, really try to make myselfget up, go to the bathroom,
drink some water, get somethingto eat, move away, and so I find
it helpful in many ways.
It can be okay.
I'm working on this project andI'm going to break it down into
these little chunks.

(38:11):
It can be.
I don't want to do this thingand it's going to take me more
than 10 minutes, but I willspend all day staring at it.
So I'm going to do it in onecombo and if I get done early,
I've got extra time.
Um, I may find you have a lotof unread emails.

(38:32):
Yes, I'm like, yeah, I'm justgoing to spend 25 minutes.
I'm not going to go through allof them.
I'm going to spend 25 minutesand I'm going to go through
emails and I'm done.
There's a reverse Pomodorowhere you really, really don't
want to do it and so I say, for25 minutes I'm going to go do
what I want and then for fiveminutes I'm just going to do
this thing.
And then sometimes you find youcan do more and, if you like, I

(38:52):
looked at emails for fiveminutes.
Okay, that's it.
I find it really helpful for meand I know there's other people
and you can vary the time.
Maybe you're really intosomething.
It's longer, maybe I'm justdoing 10 minute chunks.
My brain is somewhere else.
10 minutes break, 10 minutes abreak.
Body double is like co-workingit's working with somebody else

(39:17):
but you're doing differentthings.
So it's kind of like withlittle kids um, parallel play
where, and, and it's reallygreat on zoom.
That's one of the good thingsabout Zoom is we can meet and it
works good with Pomodoro, and Ihave bills to pay and you have
I don't know a party to plan, Idon't know a chapter to write,

(39:39):
whatever.
And we take a minute and we sayhey, and this is what I'm going
to do, and you tell me what youwant to do, and then for 25
minutes we don't talk to eachother, we go on mute and we do
our little thing.
Our brains see that each other'sworking and we do it, and then
we take a little break and youcan do it in person.
You could do it on zoom.

(39:59):
You can even just go to a.
In a way, if you go to a coffeeshop and you're able to, you
know, funnel out the backgroundnoise it's there too is then
okay, your brain is like, oh,it's time to work, okay, and so
then that's why I like mixing itin with the Pomodoro, so it's

(40:20):
like 25 minutes and then, okay,I can watch people or I can get
on my phone and set the timer.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
Right, yeah, because we would lose track of time.
For sure, yes.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yes.
So those are some ways and youcan use them at home, you can
use them at work.
You know, finally, I'm going togo take a walk for 25 minutes.
I'm just 25 minutes.
I'm just going to take a walk,or whatever it is you want to do
.
Those are some things that Ifind really helpful.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
You touch on how long coaching programs can be
overwhelming, but sometimes it'sthat quick win that builds
momentum.
Can you break down smallchanges that make a big
difference in a client or inyourself?

Speaker 2 (41:02):
I think that sometimes we have a tendency to
make really big projects, reallygrand ideas, and so if we can
start narrowing them down intoone thing, one task, one little
goal for the next hour, the nextweek, whatever, then it's
easier to get that done and notget lost in all the other

(41:25):
details that you're trying to doOkay, that's helpful.
Breaking things down andgetting out of this big picture
thing is, I think, helpful.
So the way I've learned tomanage my time is, as I

(41:45):
mentioned that it was hard sinceI had stopped teaching and
being in an office is I do whatI call a three-day sprint.
So each week, what's my littlegoal?
And I spend three days, usuallyMonday, tuesday, wednesday,
working on that and I figure outwith everything else how much
time do I actually have thosedays?
And then I throw in a CEO Icall it CEO adult.

(42:08):
The last.
Then I throw in a CEO I call itCEO adult day because I hate
that and then a relax andevaluate day.
And so it's.
If I'm working on, this is good,something I'm creating, okay,
and it takes practice, right,figuring out how long something
takes.
But one of the things it's notto be hard on yourself If I say,
okay, I'm going to write achapter, say Monday, tuesday,

(42:31):
wednesday.
I have four hours each day, myfocus, my sprint, I'm doing a
sprint, I'm writing this chapter.
Now things may come up and I'mnot going to be hard on myself,
or I may get two chapterswritten, but at the end of the
week I can look back and say,okay, yeah, okay, but then the
dog got sick Tuesday and I lostsome time, but that's okay.

(42:52):
So then next week, this Becausetelling, because ADHD, you can
have this tendency to say I'mgoing to do it all now.
I'm going to do this every dayfor the next month, and for me
this is a life.
So really learning to break itdown, yeah, that's one way that

(43:13):
I have found.
I had based it on something I'dheard about where some people
were doing like three weekssprint and then one week off,
and I'm like that that is notgoing to happen.
Three days, you know I can dosomething for three days.
Yeah, you're talking, I think,about executive functioning and

(43:50):
you know I have these reallygrand ideas, but to be able to
execute them, it's two differentthings, and you know even just
getting from A to B sometimes isbig yeah, so I want to make a
company that just comes up withideas, like sometimes I'll throw
them on social media.
Here's a great idea.
I'm not doing it.
Somebody thinks it's free, it'syours.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
I come up with ideas all the time.
It even happens in my kitchenbecause, like I'll watch really
great recipes and I'm like I cando this, and I mean you could.
The execution isn't the same.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
No.
And then if you bought thegroceries, then they all go bad,
yes, no.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Oh my gosh, this is crazy.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Okay, it's like I wish the me that signed up for
this or went shopping or agreedto do this is the me that's here
today, because they're twodifferent people.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Right, oh my gosh, yes, okay.
Another thing that you say ishow do you manage ADHD from the
inside out?
So what does that mean to you?

Speaker 2 (45:04):
moving away from experts we talked about.
You go to the doctor and thenthey say no, you don't have it.
I've mentioned a few things thatare not ADHD medicines, but
depression medicines and outsidethings, whereas for me and it's
hard, I don't have all theanswers, but it's eating,
remembering to eat and drinkwater and move my and breathe
and be nice to myself, be social, have connections, doing these

(45:28):
things inside and accepting thatmy ADHD brain works different.
But this is a lifetime ofunlearning and learning and
trying.
Another word I've been using alot lately is experiments
instead of goals or things likethat.
I'm going to do this as anexperiment.
I'm going to try to go to a newindependent bookstore once a

(45:52):
week to see what that's like,and this is an experiment, and
so it takes some of the pressureoff.
Not getting mad at myself ifit's an experiment I guess it
didn't work but the more we cankind of move away from outside
people to not that they don'thave information and sources and
all kinds of things, but alsogetting into yourself and

(46:13):
relying on yourself and reallybeing there for yourself.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah, I think that that's really, really important,
because we put ourselves on theback burner lots of times.
We're one of the last ones thatwe think of.
You know, I went to yourwebsite and you were all about
holistic and I started jottingdown the foods and different
things like that that you werehaving on your website.

(46:39):
You know, I would like to knowmore about this the foods versus
medication.
Do you think the foods we eatmake a difference in our ability
to focus?

Speaker 2 (46:50):
I mean, I think they do.
I mean, I noticed for myselffor so many things it depends
how you're eating.
You know I'm vegetarian, butyou don't have to be.
But when I'm remembering to eat, when I'm being more mindful of
my choices, it helps.
Something I've started doing isdeciding that, you know we can

(47:14):
play all these diet games, allthese.
I should be eating this.
I need 17 servings ofvegetables a day.
But what I've decided, and I'mmostly keeping to it, is I'm
eating three what I call meals aday, and for me, a meal is a
protein, a carb, some fat andsome fruit or vegetable, and it
can be a huge.
It can be like a little if I'mnot hungry, like it's an easy

(47:37):
way to get and this is just mein my mind to get.
Oh okay, I did eat three.
You know, maybe it was yogurtand granola and berries and
whatever, or maybe it wasactually.
You know your little foodgroups, but I feel like that has
given me a little freedom andI'm much more likely to do that

(47:59):
instead of these rules that atother times I might put on, you
know.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
I just think that so many times the go-to is medicine
.
Yes, and I don't know.
I have three littles withautism and ADHD and they're on a
lot of medications and I wouldlove to get them off.
And you know food dyes anddifferent things like that.

(48:25):
I mean, I know that a lot ofthe things that we ingest
contribute to our inability todo to change some of these
behaviors.
Some of these things, thisfocus.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
And just to be healthy.
Yeah, I think that there'sprobably times when medication
is appropriate.
There may be there may be notShortages of medication.
I think that there's probablytimes when medication is
appropriate there may be theremay be shortages of medication.
Was it a couple years ago now?
Yeah, okay, maybe you need that.
Maybe you need glasses.
Don't take my glasses from me,it's not going to be good when
I'm driving.
But also, what are other things?

(49:07):
Do you find that when you getexercise, when you do these
things or stay away from alcoholor sugar or red dye, you feel
better?
And that's so much individualand it can be hard to get
information because so manydoctors are just here.
Take this.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
Right, and sometimes it's after a very brief visit.
It's just like okay.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
And I think there's not enough discussion about what
else it does to you, you know,while you're taking it.
Or I know we're not talkingabout like antidepressants right
now, but what going off, theprocess of going off, what it
does to you is not for the weakat heart.
What it does to you is not forthe weak at heart.

(49:45):
Yeah, and I don't think theytalk about that and with
everything okay.
So there's good and there's bad, and maybe this medicine does
the good, does override the bad.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
Right Now.
I mean, let's talk about griefand traumas.
You know these things areinevitable and you touched on it
regarding your husband and I amso sorry that that happened.
You know you are agrief-informed neurodivergence
specialist.
Can you talk more about howthese things in our life affect

(50:20):
women with ADHD?
Sure.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
So we know that with ADHD we could be more emotional.
We have emotional regulation,cognitive functioning, the
executive functioning all ofthose are a challenge.
And then, when you really lookat it, with grief and loss and
anything from death, losing yourjob, maybe how you feel about
what's going on in the world orsomething that's happened in

(50:44):
your community, if you separatethose out, those also impact how
you feel emotionally and howyou assess things.
And you know things like grief,brain is, you know, not
remembering things Right, all ofthat, and so you push it
together and everything kind ofgets so much more.
You know, explaining to mytherapist and explaining to

(51:07):
other people that, well, I havetrouble remembering things
because of the ADHD.
Now I have all this other stuffand I have even more trouble
remembering things.
Adhd means managing life takesthis much out of me.
But oh, now there's a death orany kind of big thing.
Whether you've lost your job,whatever, there are external
things going on.
Right, you have to find a newjob or you have to make

(51:29):
arrangements or you have to dothis.
So you've got all of thosethings you have to do and you've
got all of life things that youhave to do, and the ADHD makes
that hard and the grief makesthat hard.
And so giving yourself moresupport and finding people who
can just give you grace and belike, yeah, that's a lot,

(51:49):
because back to, as women, Ishould have this, I should have
this.
And then the mask gets evenbigger.
Right, it falls apart.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
Right, it does.
Yeah, and we try really hard tohold it together.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
But it's yeah and we try really hard to hold it
together.
But it's yeah and, like Imentioned briefly, like even
finding out you have ADHD orautism can be bring on grief.
This is a huge life view change.
That's not the word I'm lookingfor, but you know like
something has dramaticallychanged now, just like I would
imagine if you get a cancerdiagnosis.
Just like I would imagine ifyou get a cancer diagnosis or

(52:25):
something is happening in yourtown, you know you've lost your
job.
These are big, life-alteringthings that impact you and you
have the ADHD that impacts you.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
Yeah, I think that we internalize things pretty
deeply and we get stuck.
It's hard to move on sometimesI know that I make myself move
on.
My dad died when I was 11.
And you know, our life justpicked up and moved on the next

(52:58):
day.
You know, not that we were inthe grief, but I'm just saying
you know, my mom was a reallygood example of okay, now I got
to get a job, now I got to dothis.
We just got to keep going, andI think that that really helped
me realize in the middle ofgrief or whatever, you know,
there is a minute to sit in itor whatever we need to do.
But we also need to figure itout.

(53:20):
We have to figure it out, itout, we have to figure it out.
But I've always been thisperson with autism and ADHD,
where I'm hurting a lot morethan I'm showing, and I think
that we can help ourselves byfinding ways to let that out.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
You know you said we deal with it.
We could feel it in the moment,but then we need to move on.
But, like you probably know,it's not gone, it's still there.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
But like you probably know it's not gone, it's still
there.
There's obvious reasons,anniversaries, things like that.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
There's just I don't know what happened today, but
need to be understood and thathits me where I live.
So can you unpack thatstatement, your life events, and
you don't need to be fixed andmade neurotypical or a robot or
an unborn person?
Yeah, I feel best when I feellike somebody sees me and

(54:36):
they're like, yeah, eitherwhether they've been through
that or something like that ornothing, but they have some
empathy and they're like, okay,I see that that's hard, not.
Oh, why aren't you over it yet?
Oh, just do it.
Oh, why don't you just go geton some beds?
Do you have a therapist?
You know, like those are allmagical things that are going to
fix it like that.
So I don't know that I need tobe fixed.

(54:59):
I would like to work with mebetter and I would like people
to work with me better and Iwould like to work with me
better and I would like peopleto work with me better and I
would like to work with otherpeople better and have more
compassion, for which, if yousaid I mean, we're all going
through something, I'd not.
You're alive right now withoutfeeling grief about something in
your life and so just, I seeyou because it's me.

(55:20):
I don't want you to tell mewhat to do, unless I'm asking.
You know Right.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
See me Right.
Yeah, that's really good advice.
So what advice do you have forworkplaces?

Speaker 2 (55:43):
educators or even families who want to better
support someone with ADHD.
One of the things I've beensaying lately is just education,
learn, read books or articlesor listen to podcasts.
Just get some generalinformation, open your mind and
get some general information andthen also be open to talking to
that person.
Because, just like cancer hitsor the flu hits people

(56:06):
differently, adhd autism it hitsyou differently at different
points in your life.
So talk to me, tell me what'sgoing on with you, what's hard
on you.
I read that some people withADHD have time, have trouble
with emotion, emotionalregulation.
Talk to me about that and so beopen and talk to them.

(56:27):
And what do you struggle withand what makes that easier?
You know, I've talked to, Ithink, if you have kids and
you're struggling, or evenwithin your relationship, maybe
re-looking at the chores or thejobs or at work, the
requirements.
So these are the things thatneed to be done.
And right now you're doing A, band C and I'm doing D, e and F.

(56:48):
I had to stop for a minute butmaybe like we switched, like I
really hate A but I would do F.
I'm like, okay, you know we cando that.
Is there something at work.
Do you just need a quieterspace?
Do you need instructions?
Do you need to be reminded tobring a notebook so that when

(57:09):
somebody's telling you somethings to do, you can write them
down, because otherwise, justlike names, they're in and it's
out and listening and you know,for doctors, for everybody, you
probably really don't know thatmuch about it.
And also asking, like, what doyou want me to know?
Oh, anne, what would you likeme to know about you and your

(57:30):
autism and how that's goingright now?
What would you like me to know?

Speaker 1 (57:33):
And so I think things like that and just learning
more, you know, if it's even asmall organization or workplace
environment, I guess you couldput it out there.
You know, I was just thinkingof this while you were talking
because our conversation hasreally helped me even understand
myself better and be validated.
So just you know, hey, is thereother people out there that are

(57:58):
neurodivergent and maybe we canall come together, people that
are typical and neurodivergent,and be able to sit and talk
together within the workplace,maybe just you know, one hour,
and get to know each other andsee how we can help you and how
you can help us and you know,maybe something like that, and

(58:19):
just really be open.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Yeah, I've worked with people.
They have come to me they havenot come through their employer,
but who have been strugglingwith things at work and we've
worked through what is your bosssaying and what are you saying
and how is this a struggle andwhat can you do.
But also some workplaces.
May I know they hire executivecoaches for people they may be
interested in.

(58:41):
Oh yeah, you've either told meyou have ADHD or this seems to
be a thing, and we're willing toinvest a little bit of money in
having some coaching sessionsto help them figure out better
ways to be successful, given theway you are.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
Right what you need.
You know, as some I've wonderedthis for having autism and ADHD
and everybody's different maybein how they're going to handle
this.
But I was just curious do yougo into a job interview letting
them know, or do you slay theinterview because you practiced

(59:18):
and practiced, like I often do,going into something like that
and then slay the initial jobrequirement and then slowly let
them know?

Speaker 2 (59:26):
So that's going to be a personal decision.
I think it's going to have todo probably with where you are,
the place you're at, how muchthey're following IDEA and you
know some of the laws.
I mean it can go both ways.
You could bring it up in waysless of saying I mean you can

(59:48):
say you have ADHD, that'sperfectly fine, and then be able
to talk about it.
These are the things that I dowell, but that's a hard one.
That really is, and I thinkthat's really individualized and
I wouldn't want to tellsomebody just what to do.
I know some of that then wouldprobably go through HR If you're
really asking foraccommodations.

(01:00:10):
Another way is reallyconsidering what you need and
where you work well and makingsure in that interview and
asking questions.
That would give you thenanswers that say yes, this is
the kind of place that operatesin this way and I might be
successful here, or no.
I walk around and everyone's inthis open area and it's really

(01:00:32):
noisy and I know that's just notgoing to work.
That's good.
You know kind of thatself-inquiry like what do I do
well, what do I need help withand what are questions I could
ask and little spidey senses Icould come up with to see if,
hmm, is this really the fit,instead of because what you're
talking about and I do it too isputting on that mask, going

(01:00:56):
into the interview presentinghow you think they want you to
be and then having to show uplike that versus this is who I
am and I want a job that fitsthat.
Now, that means you have to beable to be picky with a job and
those sorts of things.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
You know you had a really good point in that.
It's also an interview foryourself with them and knowing
if this is a good fit right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
I want to make you like me or friend.
I want to make you like mewithout Wait do I like you?

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
Well, yeah, I mean that's.
That's an interesting point,because I'm always so busy
trying to impress, to get themto like me, that you know it's
interesting to go into it,looking around and saying, does
this fit who I am?
Yeah, what would you say to awoman that might be listening

(01:01:49):
right now who's undiagnosedoverwhelmed?
Maybe she's gone to places andshe's getting that?
No, I mean, but she's sittingthere saying you know what,
maybe this is me, like you didwhen you started relating with
your students.
You know, what do you say tosomebody who is listening right
now?

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
I'd say believe in yourself.
I would say start doing somelooking and figuring out what
you do well and keep working onthat, figuring out things that
you need some help with.
Think about right now doeshaving this diagnosis really
matter to me right now?
Because you can say right nowI'm not ready to do it, to fight

(01:02:28):
for this, and you can open yourmind and do it later.
But kind of figuring out whatyou're hoping to get out of it,
how important that piece ofpaper, that official diagnosis,
is for you.
And in the meantime, or instead, what are ways you can start
learning and doing some things?
Maybe just coaching, maybelistening to other people, maybe

(01:02:51):
reading some books or listeningto some podcasts and just
getting some information, maybetabling it for a little while.
Or what's one thing you strugglewith, what's really hard right
now that you think is related tothe ADHD, and how can you get
some help to work on that,either flat out asking someone

(01:03:13):
to do something for you, ifgoing grocery shopping is
overwhelming and too much hiring, or finding or trading with
somebody else to do it, orlearning a skill, or learning
more about yourself and whatreally works for you, because
people will say my sister hasADHD and she does this.
Well, that doesn't necessarilywork for you.
You can try it, but it mightnot.
So if you're really havingtrouble getting through to

(01:03:37):
doctors and deciding howimportant that is for you, you
offer a lot of services too.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
That is for you.
You offer a lot of services too, and you have a free guide for
people with ADHD who are readyto reclaim their life.
You have on your website.
Can you talk about what'sinside and how it can help?

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Sure.
So one of the first things issome 30 quick and easy hacks and
it just spells out some thingsthat you could do that you know
sometimes when we're overwhelmedwe have a hard time thinking
about it.
You know whether it's takingfive minutes to just do a task,
whether it's deleting fiveemails that are just in your way

(01:04:14):
, but breaking things down intosomething small that you can do
and feel some success, a lot ofit can be just these really
little, small, subtle shiftsthat you can make in your
thinking, or taking five minutesto do something that, if you
allow yourself it, can buildsuccess.
We're not going to take oneverything and change everything

(01:04:35):
over and over, and we don'teven need to change a lot of it.
Maybe we need to change how welook at it a little bit, what we
do, how we relate to peopleabout it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
It really can be about those small wins.
I really think, because we canget overwhelmed with big.
That's how I operate.
What can I do today?
And I try actually not to evenlook further than that, because
then it just gets too big.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
I get it.
I plan out the whole rest ofthe year of all this stuff and
that's kind of its own activity.
Is just planning.
Following through is adifferent story.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
Let's talk about your upcoming book, if you can.
I mean, you do have an upcomingbook.
What inspired you to write thisbook and what can readers
expect?

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
So the book that I'm working on that is about ADHD
holistic hacks for women withADHD and looking at women in
ADHD ways that you can manage it, ways that you can work on it
with yourself you can expectbeing able to walk through some
steps, learn more about yourselfand really kind of go into

(01:05:39):
yourself and figuring out whatyour goals are, your needs are,
hearing about how some otherwomen have done it, getting some
, basically, support andcommunity in doing that.
I also have a card deck I'vecreated that's something that
you can carry with you.
So a book is bigger, somethingsmall and has some little

(01:06:00):
scenarios and just real quickwins that you can use.
I love that.
Yes, so that's going to be onthe website and the big book is
a great thing.
It's a big project, but I'malso looking at that and like
smaller things, realizing that,at least for me.
I know Bookshelf have big ADHDbooks and I read some of it.

(01:06:20):
Here's something smaller on astruggle you're having right now
.
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
I like the social stories aspect of it too,
because you know I'll even go toa store and I'll be in the
checkout.
You know, and I'll have thescenario through my head, what
I'm supposed to do, how I'msupposed to act, what I'm
supposed to say.
So I mean, those kinds ofsocial stories are really
important to be successful.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
So the card deck is.
Here's the little social story,a little bit about what's going
on, so you understand.
And then here here's a coupleof real quick things you could
do right now.
You know you're at work and youthought you did this project
right and your boss is now upsetwith you.
So, adhd-wise, this is what'sgoing on, and here's a couple of
things.
Here's something now upset withyou.
So, adhd wise, this is what'sgoing on and here's a couple of
things.
Here's something now I can do.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
Right, and you're holding on to it.
I mean, you can visually see it, so you can just go ahead and
do exactly what it says.
I think that's perfect.
Yeah, there's room foreverything.
So can you talk about the otherservices that you offer,
because you speak and some other?

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
things Coaching and I'm moving much more towards
shorter blocks.
Again, like I talked aboutworking on specific goals,
specific this is what I reallywant to work on, and then we can
continue.
We want to keep working on it.
I find that that helps becauseyou've either picked something

(01:07:45):
very important, like my boss issaying this or my partner is
saying this, or some littlething that you want to change
and you're seeing success indoing that.
So I like to do coaching withthat.
I'm going to start offering andI haven't figured out the
logistics.
But, like I was talking about,the three, three day sprint for
me is so powerful, figuringdifferent ways to offer that, to

(01:08:07):
support people in that.
Okay, I also do some consulting, trying to figure out.
I can do some teaching for HR,doctors, therapists, that kind
of stuff going in, and here issome up-to-date information and
how to use it with your patients.
If you're a therapist, what doyou need to know about the ADHD

(01:08:30):
brain, the female ADHD brain, togo with what?
You've got this great knowledgehere, but there's a little hole
, so let's see if we can fill itlike that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
You really offer so much.
How can people get a hold ofyou?
What's your website?

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
It's ADHDholisticallycom.
I'm also on Instagram andthreads and I'm starting up I'm
not sure when this is coming outbut on Substack, really being
able to write and just share,share, share, share little
subtle things.
So you can reach out to me onthe website, dm me on those

(01:09:08):
platforms.
There's an email link on thewebsite and if there's something
that you need you know, let'stalk.
You know, one of the thingswith ADHD is I like to have all
these different ideas and I'mfinding this is allowing me to
do different creative projectsthat are creative for me.
Maybe you want somethingpresented at your meeting or

(01:09:28):
anything that you have like that, and also starting to go out
then with the card deck and thelittle books to bookshops and
just little community things,because I like little community
talking.

Speaker 1 (01:09:40):
I like those kind of events.
You know, connection is reallyhard for people like us, and so
that's really great to havethese kind of things, because we
meet so many different peoplethat we wouldn't have met any
other way and like we wouldn'thave met, and I think that
that's so important.
And having conversations andgetting to know other people

(01:10:02):
that are neurodivergent andthings like that, I mean it
really builds a community.
I think this is so important.
I agree we don't have to do italone.

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
No, no, not at all, and we have been.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
Yeah, we really do think that we have to,
especially women.
So I love that you've builtthis because you really are
building a community.
So I love that you've builtthis because you really are
building a community.
Now, just for fun this is thelast question, but what's one?
Because you know what ADHD andautism, any kind of
neurodivergence, can also be apositive.

(01:10:36):
You know, I love who I am and Ireally wouldn't change me.
But what superpower would yousay that you have, that you
wouldn't trade for anything?

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
My creative brain, the way that when I get off on
something I can just come upwith so many ideas.
And then if I'm with somebodywho is accepting of that, you
know it's fun just getting inthere, exploring, coming up with
all the ideas.
Like I said, I want to have abusiness where I just give
people ideas.

Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
Well, you know, there's a lot going on up here.
There's a lot going on up therethere really is, and so that's
so interesting because it doescome out in a lot of creative
ways, and if we can tap intothat, I mean that is so
important.
And, you know, sometimes justdoing things like this and

(01:11:30):
somebody can ask a question, andthat is the landing place that
I needed for me to execute.
The next spot, you know sothat's really important too is
just being able to have thatconversation and it really can
lead you to the next point inthe map.
Yeah, completely Well, thankyou so much.

(01:11:52):
Thank you, Dr Jennifer.
Thank you so much for joiningus and sharing your insight and
your story, your proof that it'snever too late to understand
your brain and unlock your life.
Remember, there is alwayspurpose in the pain and hope in
the journey.
Here.
We always turn pain intopurpose, and that's exactly what

(01:12:13):
we did today.
Go to Dr Jennifer's website andshare this with anyone who
might need her guidance.
Grab her free guide.
Check out ADHD holistically andremember there is no normal,
only what works for you.
Take care of you, take care ofyour brain and, as usual, we
will see you next time.