February 5, 2025 • 57 mins
Ever wondered why some behaviors are mistaken for attention-seeking when they're really cries for connection? Join us on a heartfelt exploration of the thin line between these two often-confused concepts. Real Talk with Tina and Ann uncovers the hidden motivations behind seemingly disruptive actions, emphasizing the importance of understanding and fulfilling the innate human need for connection. By sharing intimate stories and professional insights, we shed light on how past traumas can manifest in harmful ways and offer practical strategies to foster healthier relationships with those seeking genuine emotional bonds.
Throughout this episode, we dive deep into the challenges and joys of parenting, particularly when raising children with unique needs. We highlight the crucial role of making children feel valued and understood. Listen in as we explore tailored learning approaches and the significance of nurturing environments, sharing how these elements contribute to children's thriving and secure attachments.
As we journey through the complex terrain of childhood trauma and loss, we share a poignant personal story of grappling with grief and maintaining normalcy amidst chaos. This narrative reminds us of the importance of recognizing the hidden struggles children may face and the necessity of adult attentiveness to these silent cries for help. Finally, we explore the courage it takes to seek assistance on the healing journey, reinforced by inspiring quotes from figures like Mariska Hargitay, Robert Kiyosaki and Barack Obama. Together, we reassure you that there is no set timeline for healing and that seeking help is a powerful step towards personal growth and resilience.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
This is part two of attentionseeking versus connection
seeking.
As we said in part one andyou'll hear in part two,
connection is a basic need andyou should not feel guilty for
not having that fulfilled.
It is not your fault.
It is not shameful for you tohave needs that were not
fulfilled, but how we go aboutgetting those needs fulfilled is
(00:31):
important.
I remember holding hands withwomen who murdered and had
friends who were prostitutes,having worked in the jail, and I
can tell you that sellingyourself to those pains and
hurts and reliving the pain overand over again is not the way.
Seeking connections in waysthat are harmful will never
fulfill those basic needs.
They will only take you on theroad of shame and self-harm.
(00:54):
Reliving trauma is a sign thatyour basic needs were not met
and the only way you know how toget that love is in the wrong
way and you deserve better.
You know how to get that loveis in the wrong way and you
deserve better.
You deserve to be loved.
Some people act out indifferent ways or stay away from
commitment or allow hurts todefine who they are.
(01:14):
The pains of the past are notwho you are.
Remember that Definitions ofothers are not who you are, and
you were made for better.
You deserve better.
God loves you too.
And if you are someone whodoesn't believe in God, I'm were
made for better.
You deserve better.
God loves you too.
And if you are someone whodoesn't believe in God, I'm not
here to preach, but when I wrotemy book the Sinful Woman, it
was about a woman who had laidbefore Christ at his feet and he
(01:35):
saw her heart, while those whowere church leaders saw only her
actions.
I know what that is like.
I know what it is like forpeople to judge me because of my
actions, because of actionsthat I took when I was in pain
and hurting, when I was at atime in my life that I acted out
and was seeking connections inall the wrong ways, when I was
(01:56):
numbing and when I dideverything not to feel because
my inner child that had gonethrough so much was not healed.
Seek help, knowing that thereis nothing wrong with who you
are.
Right now in your life, it istime to rid of the shame and
enter into healthy relationshipsand know that you, too, deserve
love, and you just need tolearn how to receive positive,
(02:17):
true, loving love.
Thank you so much for listeningto part two of attention
seeking versus connectionseeking.
Here is part two.
Good job, thank you.
It is critical.
Yeah, attachment is formed as achild and I do know people that
(02:37):
continually seek and seek andyou know, for that connection I
really feel for anybody who hasnever had those.
When I worked in the group homefor abused kids, I had one.
I had one of them when he agedout.
He aged out.
(02:58):
What are you going to do?
You got nowhere to go.
You literally have your stuffon the front porch and it's bye.
Yeah, there was nobody on theother side to pick him up.
He ended up on my door because Ihad had him and a couple of the
other kids that were in theshelter at my house for
(03:20):
Christmas before, and it was,you know, approved and
everything.
We were allowed to do that, infact, other staff.
We took some of the kids homebecause they had nowhere to go,
and so he knew where I lived.
Apparently.
He remembered and I opened thedoor and there he was.
So he's 18.
(03:47):
He has nowhere else to live andhe's sleeping on my couch, you
know, for a couple months, andso we helped figure it out for
him.
But you know, I mean, it's justso critical.
What do you do with these kidsthat are like this, that become
adults, and it doesn't end justbecause you turn 18.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
We have to understand the motivation behind behaviors
, and there's a website, safes.
Safes blogs states thatconnection-seeking behaviors are
all about a genuine need foremotional closeness and
meaningful interaction.
These behaviors requireparents' precise attention and
(04:31):
conversations about feelings.
Validating their emotions,setting aside quality time and
teaching problem-solving skillsare just a few of the strategies
that can strengthen theparent-child bond while
promoting healthy development.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, they also say.
Children with attention-seekingbehaviors may act out, seek
constant praise or approval, orengage in disruptive behavior to
draw attention to themselves,Unlike connection-seeking, which
focuses on building meaningfulrelationships.
Unlike connection seeking,which focuses on building
(05:13):
meaningful relationships,attention seeking behavior is
often driven by a need forimmediate gratification or
validation from others.
While attention seekingbehavior may temporarily fulfill
the child's desire forattention, it may not address
the underlying emotional needsto contribute to the development
of secure attachment withparents.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Based on an article by Wendy and I think it might be
Wisner what to Know AboutAttention Seeking Behavior.
Children's attention seekingbehaviors are usually normal and
not necessarily bad.
Young children especially tryto figure out what's appropriate
and what's not by testingboundaries.
(05:48):
We all know that one oh yeah.
When kids misbehave, it can be asign of their need for help.
To recognize attention-seekingbehavior in your children, you
need to be attentive to certainsigns and patterns, and it says
that here are some commonindicators.
And it says that here are somecommon indicators Constant
interruptions.
Children seeking attention mayinterrupt conversations or
(06:09):
activities frequently and I knowsome kids that do this.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
This way they intend to divert attention to
themselves.
Exaggerated behaviors they mayexaggerate or engage in
exaggerated or dramaticbehaviors to capture attention,
such as loud outbursts orover-the-top gestures or making
a scene in public.
I think a lot of kids do thattoo.
I do.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I think so.
Yeah, you know, some of thisstuff is somewhat normal, just
normal for being a kid Demandingbehavior, attention-seeking
children often show demandingbehavior, insisting on immediate
responses to their needs ordesires.
I mean, I know some adults thatstill do that.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, yeah, seeking approval that's another thing,
too, that adults can seek.
They may constantly look forpraise or validation for even
minor accomplishments.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
You know, and I think that that is that little little
kid that just never gotfulfilled inside them.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
You know, look at this mommy, look at this mommy,
you know, and it just was neverfulfilled.
So it continues as they getolder, Competing for attention.
They may compete with siblingsor peers for attention, feeling
threatened by others receivingmore focus.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Oh man, I can, I can.
There was in high school acoach one of my coaches which
I'm friends with now, and therewas a competition between
another.
We all wanted her attention,but there was another girl who
who?
We had an unhealthy competitionfor attention from our coach.
(08:00):
It was like we were seeking this, you know, and any like it was
a back and forth you know, soyeah, I can say, I can say for
sure that, competing for thatattention to an attention
seeking language, they may usephrases like look at me or watch
this to draw attention to theiractions or achievements and
(08:22):
again, like that, sometimes it'snormal Kids will do that, but
not always.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
This website says that if we ignore a child's
attention-seeking behavior, itcan develop unhealthy actions
and feelings impacting theirrelationships in the future.
Initially, the child mightintensify their
attention-seeking attempts inresponse to being ignored, so
there's a high risk of harmingthemselves, causing irreversible
damage.
(08:49):
Moreover, emotionallyunavailable parents can provoke
feelings of frustration andresentment, causing the child to
interpret the lack ofresponsiveness as rejection.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's you know, and I'll be
vulnerable here.
I have a lot of that whereyou're seeking somebody to.
You know I have what is itcalled I'm constantly afraid of
when you have the attachment soyou're feeling like you're going
(09:23):
to be abandoned, right?
So I definitely have.
I struggle with abandonmentissues from, say, friends, or I
have this cousin who I'd gottenclose with I haven't talked to
in quite some bit, and I have totalk about that in therapy
because you automatically assumethat you're being abandoned.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Because it was unfulfilled.
Correct, because you would nothave that if it was.
I know for sure, because itreally does lead to children
feeling unworthy and turninginto attention-seeking behavior
yeah, behavior.
Furthermore, the article saysconsistent disregard for a
(10:07):
child's attempts at connectionmay interrupt their learning
process or effectivecommunication skills and
emotional regulation Check,check, check, check, check,
check.
Every single one of those.
Yeah, I that you know?
Effective communication skills?
(10:28):
Not at all.
Emotional regulation Never, andmy learning process was like
out the door.
I mean it.
Just, it was horrible.
I mean all of those horrible.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I mean, all of those Did you feel like?
So I felt like as I grew and Ididn't have, you know, all that,
you almost put this guard up.
You know we always talk aboutputting up the wall and
protecting yourself.
It's almost like as an adult,like I felt like I was in this
cocoon.
So it wasn't.
You know, I wasn't able tocommunicate these things.
I didn't have that regulationof the emotions and the things,
(11:10):
so I tried to keep myselfbarricaded where I didn't let
people in.
And when you don't do that, youdon't have that healthy
relationship and healthyunderstanding of what a
relationship especially in theconnections of what we'll go
parent, because I have to speakon that.
My personal thing is, you know,you've kept people at a
(11:31):
distance because you didn't know, like I didn't know how to act.
I was so used to acting in thatdefensiveness.
One of the fears was like Idon't know how to be.
I don't know how to make aconnection like this.
I'm afraid this type of whenyou grow up without it, you now
become afraid of the connection.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
As an autistic individual, I think that we
naturally do that.
I think neurotypical people doit too.
But I go into a room and I'mwatching everybody, their house
and I watched how they didsomething, or they all sat
around the table and this iswhat they did, and then they got
up and they all put the dishesand then they swept the the
floor after and they all youknow and I would like take all
this in- yeah and I'd be like,okay, this is what we do you
(12:39):
know yeah so I mean it's, it'sreally good, in a way, that we
were able to take thosescenarios in our lives, or the
people that made differences inour lives, and be able to
channel the things that theytaught us in order for us to be
better parents that's.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I mean, that's my whole entire book, and what I
speak about is that these thingsthat you would naturally get at
home, that you would form,these understandings that you
would get from a parent, from amom, I wasn't getting that and,
you know, ended up getting thesethings from these teachers up,
things you kind of watch.
You watch as like, oh, should Ibe this way, should I act this
way?
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I didn't know how to cook, I had never cooked a meal,
oh yeah, I had never donelaundry, I had never done any of
those things, the normaleveryday things for me, and I
wasn't allowed, I had no depthperception, wasn't a lot.
I had no depth perception.
And even if I was in thekitchen and I poured something
(13:47):
at that time of my life becauseI really hadn't learned where
things really were in a glass orsomething now I do know, yeah,
but back then I still don't havethe depth perception but back
then, you know, I just wouldpour and go all over the place
or whatever, and she would justsay you know, get out of here,
you're making a mess.
And I was never.
(14:07):
Just come on, I'm gonna do itwith you, let's yeah together.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
So did you have um with those things?
This is curiosity.
Um, I felt that I learned umwhen you were observing other
people and you were watching howthey did it.
I always say I was watchingfrom the outside of the window,
looking in, and always to be theperson on the inside.
(14:33):
So I felt like, as I watchedthe outside, I had to do those
things and I felt in my mind itwas around me.
I told myself, if I just dowhat they're doing and that's so
, we'll call it normal or that'swhat you're supposed to do,
then I'm going to havesomebody's going to want to have
that connection with me.
Do you know what I mean?
(14:54):
Well, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
In that sense, I like have this visual of.
There was a family that I feltreally connected to, and I was
older at the time and I rememberthem getting a family portrait
and I was so jealous that theycould not be in it.
Now did I know I wasn't a partof their family?
(15:16):
Yes, yeah, but on the inside Iwas living this thing with.
You know that they fulfilled alot for me yeah and I don't know
.
I guess I wanted them torecognize me but as that, but
not I.
(15:37):
I think it's kind of weird tosay that I wanted them to
recognize me as a family memberbecause I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
But there's part of you that wanted that right, that
little kid in me yes thatlittle kid in me wanted that.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
But again, I grew out of that.
I'm so thankful.
I'm just not that person.
You know, I adopted all five ofmy kids and they have all
handled their adoptionsdifferently and I was adopted.
So you know, I adopted all fiveof my kids and they have all
handled their adoptionsdifferently and I was adopted.
So you know my experience too.
So I kind of have six well,seven really, including my
(16:16):
sister, but my youngest oldest,if that's how I can say it,
child Out of five.
She would be my second, okay,and she's 29 now, but she was an
amazing kid, you know, anamazing child, and she always
(16:37):
wanted connection with me.
I mean she would lay her headon me.
I mean she still does whenwe're together and just sends me
texts that she loves me.
But and she has my handwritingtattooed right here on her and I
have hers tattooed right here.
It's in her handwriting.
(16:58):
And she drew a sun and a moonand I think I told you maybe
about this in another episode,but it was, um, you know, it's
the sun and the moon.
You are my sunshine and I loveyou to the moon and back.
And she drew this little thingand it just says Morse.
I love you, morse, because wehave this thing about most and
more.
I love you more and most.
(17:18):
And we just would still to thisday.
Whenever we talk to each other,we say Morse.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
So yeah, it's a really cool thing, but she I
mean she went through a lot andthat's who she is.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
We always had a really deep connection.
Now my oldest out of thelittles he is 11, and he has a
lot of disabilities, so I thinkthat that might have something
to do with it, but he just loveseverybody and he wants
attention all the time.
I mean all the time.
(17:57):
So it gets a lot and it is hardwhen he acts out and I'm
constantly, even as his mom,reminding myself he just needs
me to listen, he just needs meto be there for him, to sing to
him, because he loves that.
You know you are my sunshine atnight and he smiles over the
smallest interactions and all hewants is love and connection
(18:19):
and to feel important.
And that's so important thatour kids feel important.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, it's so interesting because you had said
that you, you know you're in adifferent place.
I thought I was for a long timetoo, and again I'll share like
cause.
I believe in mental health.
I believe that it's okay to askfor help and to go for help,
and I did.
I started therapy because Iwanted to understand the I guess
(18:48):
what in essence?
Needing to heal the inner child, that child that needs the
connection.
But understanding now, as anadult, how to channel that in
your connection with yourchildren, because I have a great
relationship with my kids.
I have a son who has autism andyou know there's that boundary
that they like you know and I'msure that you have.
(19:11):
Where you know, there's certainthings where this is the
connection is here.
There's still the connection,but it's not like with my
daughter, who's constantly likeover top of me and wants to hear
that I love you and wants tohear all that, because that's
the connection that she needs,that's the connection that she
wants, and I want to do better.
I do that, you know I'm therefor her, but I know that I could
(19:33):
be better, as long as you knowif you're healing those parts of
you that you know that you wereseeking.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
You know, I have two more, my two littles, yeah, and
one is nine and one is eight,and they are as different as
different can be.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I met them.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, my daughter, who is in the middle.
I guess she has the middlesyndrome, I'm not sure, but she
went through so much as a babythat she genuinely needs a lot
of love.
She is the one that in the room, no matter what will be the
(20:17):
loudest, will get the mostattention, will make sure that
she gets the most attention,will make sure that she gets the
most attention.
So, yes, she is an attentionseeker if we go by the
definitions that we just readearlier and the examples.
But honestly, she is thatbecause she didn't get what she
needed as a child.
(20:39):
I can tell you she is the onethat if I lay with her, I tell
you she is the one that if I laywith her, she will just lay all
over me.
She doesn't want me to leave,she wants to be with me.
She really wants the connectionand she wants it from me.
Yeah, will she seek other whatyou know in other areas?
(21:01):
Yes, but she really does wantit for me and if I say let's go
do this or spend time with me, Imean she's on it like that.
She won't even hesitate.
She wants her mom.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
So I mean that really makes me feel good, but it also
makes me feel bad, because Iwasn't there for her the first
18 months and there was so muchdamage already done by the time
I got her and so we'reconstantly trying to fill those
holes that just I have it fulland it's gone.
I have it full and it's gone,you know.
(21:36):
So it's that constant, but sheknows that I really love her,
genuinely love her, and there'sa lot of people in her circle
her teachers, her horsetherapist, her you know all the
people that activities that wedo outside of school.
They really genuinely love herand so I think that she's
(21:59):
constantly getting filled.
So I hope that that helps herlater.
And my eight-year-old he isactually being homeschooled now
Because he just even though Igot him when he was two months,
he had already gone through somuch and he's also very autistic
(22:23):
.
Out of my three autistic kidshe actually is the higher
functioning.
One has the most needs.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
And he wants mom and he just needs one-on-one.
He can't handle a lot.
It's attachment Partly, partly,but it really now that I've
been doing this with him.
(22:53):
He genuinely cannot handle alot of noise and a lot of
whatever's going on in theclassroom yeah, and so it turns
into fight or flight, likereally fast, yeah, and so you
can't learn like that.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
No.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
So he is a genius.
Yeah, he reads it, he knows it.
He's doing math right now, waybeyond the other two, and that
could have been part of it.
Yeah, you know, he's in secondgrade.
Maybe he was bored, I'm notsure.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah, but he, he, he loves his mom.
I am everything.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I know, I see, I see that.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
You know, I fulfilled it through my kids, what I did
with my parents and I had yeah,I did with them.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I have to, but I think, as a there's there's
still something missing, butit's something.
That's why I go to therapy, sothat I can I don't want to say
accept it, but understand whereI am today and maybe more
appreciate the connections thatI have with certain people and
and the connections that I have.
Like I said, I have all thesewonderful people in my life and
(24:03):
I am very appreciative of them,and I think that's where it's
like I have to understand that alot of people don't get that.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, I mean I needed two things to happen.
I needed one to have the kidsthat I have, including, I'm
going to say, both of my olderkids yeah because I genuinely
love both of them.
Um, but you know I needed that,yeah, also needed for my mom to
(24:31):
pass away my adopted mom topass away and I know that that
sounds horrible, but I wasn'table to really become fully who
I am until that happened.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
So you know, it allowed me to live and I was no
longer that person looking forattention seeking behavior.
Yeah, and there was absolutely100% reasons why I was that
person.
Yeah, I lived in fear and Iwould say that was the my
biggest.
That was who I was, was fear.
(25:03):
I was looking everywhere.
I was looking everywhere tofeel safe.
I was looking for a person tobe safe and the second I'm not
kidding you, the second that shewas gone and that fear was gone
, I was okay.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Isn't that crazy?
That's so crazy.
But I can understand that whenI started speaking is when I
started to realize that fear isstarting to go away, because I
can use my voice now and I'm notafraid to use my voice.
I think that something thatalso helps me is that I've
(25:43):
gotten so much feedback from theschools, from the teachers,
about how much they need to hearfrom someone who has a lived
experience, and that fulfills me.
That really gives me that youstart like you.
You said you start to live andI'm starting.
I'm starting.
(26:03):
So I'm not, I mean, I'mstarting on my journey now, so
I'm a little bit delayed, butit's okay because, um, yeah, you
, you start to.
Um, I see that I'm fulfillingthese gaps in different areas by
different things, and I thinkthat that's the most interesting
thing too.
(26:25):
So, yeah, I think I'm gettingit in the different areas, and I
love this area.
I love being able to talk, Ilove being able to share my
story.
It releases that weight thatyou live with right, that weight
of fear.
It releases it and allows youto become who you've always been
(26:46):
.
You've just been like hiddenand trapped inside.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Very true, you know, when you're a child and you
don't feel safe or feel that itis okay or that it might not
ever be okay, I mean, what ahorrible feeling yeah, that it
might feel like it might notever be okay.
It's a scary place to live.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
To feel like you can't even go to sleep because
you are afraid.
When I had my sister stillliving with us that she was
going to die because she wasbeing abused next door to me in
the bedroom, and I was scaredtoo for my own safety.
But also I had these dreams ofmy deceased dad in my window
(27:34):
every night, after he died forwell, I know it was at least a
year died for well, I know itwas at least a year.
But the same exact dream andafter I fell asleep and the same
thoughts.
Before I would fall asleep, Ibelieved with all of my heart
that he was still alive underthe ground and he was trying, he
(27:56):
was coming back and he wasgoing to kill me.
Oh, gosh was trying, he wascoming back and he was going to
kill me.
Oh gosh, and nobody.
I couldn't tell anybody, Ididn't have anybody to talk to
about this.
Yeah, and nobody really seemedto care.
I don't know, but I'm not sure.
But if a child acts like theyare okay, yeah, after a lot of
(28:17):
trauma or loss, that does notmean that they are.
They are just putting on a mask.
Alert, alert, you know, come onred flags.
I just want to say that at mydad's funeral I stared at his
chest.
Well, actually the callinghours, or viewing however you
want to say it.
I sat there in this one chairand actually I mean, here was
(28:42):
the room.
And then right outside of theroom there was a set of chairs
and I sat right where I couldsee him.
Nobody was sitting with me, Iwas by myself and I just kept
staring at him, watching hischest go up and down.
I was certain that it was and Iwent around.
(29:05):
I went to my mom and I'm likecan't you see that he's
breathing?
It was like, oh no, he's notDismissed me, I believe.
I went to one or two otherpeople.
Everybody dismissed me and kindof laughed it, laughed it off,
you know, like, yeah, right, no,he's not.
(29:25):
But I believed that we buriedhim alive and it was all my
fault, and he found himself outof the grave.
He figured out how to get outof the grave and he really was
coming to get me because I lethim die, yeah, under that ground
.
So I was petrified after that.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
That would scare me.
That would scare me.
That's a big trauma to gothrough.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
It is that whole time .
And then imagine trying to goto school right after that or
while that's happening.
All this stuff is going on inmy world and I'm trying to
maintain this sense of normalcy.
Nothing was normal and I wastrying to be the normal in the
(30:12):
room.
I mean now my, you know, theday of Thanksgiving.
The day of Thanksgiving becausehe died November 25th, two days
before Thanksgiving.
It day of Thanksgiving becausehe died November 25th, two days
before Thanksgiving.
It was a Tuesday, and I'llnever forget it.
And then here we are on aThanksgiving, and while they're
making Thanksgiving dinner andI'm downstairs watching the
(30:34):
parade, I could hear themplanning the funeral.
Nobody's talking to me again.
Come on, let's have dinner.
Come on, let's do this.
We just had a normalThanksgiving.
It was so strange.
I remember he died on a Tuesday.
We had one more day of schoolbefore Thanksgiving.
It would have been a Wednesday.
(30:56):
I got up on my own, I gotdressed as if I was going to
school.
I go down, there's my mom andmy aunts are standing there and
they said to me, kind of in alaughing way what are you doing?
And I said I'm going to school.
And they just all looked at meand said your dad just died.
(31:20):
No, you're not right.
I mean no.
It just doesn't even make senseto me how this was handled yeah
, that you were talking about,um, having the mask on.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
When you go through trauma you wear.
It's something that one of thethings that I really try to when
I'm speaking at schools.
I share my story and you'veread the book, you know my story
and one of the things like I dotry to help teachers understand
(32:04):
is that a lot of times, kidswho are going through trauma
sometimes will portray that theyhave this wonderful thing at
home.
They're not they.
They're wearing this pretend,we'll say a pretend um persona.
It's like you know I I go intothe thing where, um, when kids
are counting down the days, mostkids are counting down the days
till they have vacation.
Well, the kid who's countingdown the days most kids are
counting down the days till theyhave vacation.
Well, the kid who's countingdown the days who has vacation,
that's going through trauma,lying to you.
(32:25):
They're counting down becausethey're about to go through
something themselves.
You know traumas of not, youknow, and it's something to
recognize, I mean, if you haveany, you know hints of somebody
going through something, um, youknow, kind of recognize that
and maybe ask those questionslike how are you?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
that simple question you yeah, I would, I, yeah, I
would count the days until, um,it was time to go back to school
during a break yeah, so that'sthe same thing.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
that's the same thing because they're for for me.
There's the connections.
Those connections were onlythere and maybe, you know, with
the attention seeking I don'tyou know, it's kind of funny
because when you think about itit's like, do you need the
attention to get the connection?
(33:18):
Like I need your attention,first come get me and then, once
I'm with you, now let's havethe connection.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Right, yeah.
Well, I mean, there were peoplethat I kept trying to have
connection with and I canremember talking about the
funeral.
Again I looked up to thiscousin of mine and I really
liked her, and again it was thatsame feeling that I had with
that teacher, where I'm tryingto say I like you, yeah, it, it
(33:47):
I didn't do that, but I was justreally.
I said to her will you, um,stay at the funeral?
She, she showed up.
Yeah, she is not quite 20 yearsolder than me, but you know
Close enough, yeah, and here Iwas 11, and I really looked up
(34:08):
to her and I said will you stay?
And she said oh, I have to goto so-and-so and go do this and
that, and I'm just like yeah,and that like, and I'm just like
(34:35):
yeah.
So you know those things.
I tried, I did you, or that canyou stay.
You know those were my ways ofsaying.
Can I connect with you?
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Because I couldn't figure out how to put it in
paragraphs.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I, you know it's funny, I had um, and this is
just comes to my mind.
So, uh, obviously I don't havecommunication with my family, Um
, but when I did, I had um, anaunt who's no longer married to
an uncle of mine.
Um, but I had the same thingyou were.
I was looking so hard for thatconnection from her that, like I
remember vividly um sitting ona couch and just trying to
(35:18):
snuggle up to her, just becauseI felt like that, would you know
, you were just looking for thatkind of a connection.
Like I didn't think that thatwas right or wrong, I didn't
know how to, like you said, youdon't know how to say it, you
don't know how, any other way.
So you do things thinking thatthat's the way you gain that
(35:38):
connection, things thinking thatthat's the way you gain that
connection.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Right, great, yeah, I did that too.
You know, I had a math teacherin ninth grade.
This was not really small.
She came to my house and sheate with us and she just cared,
and she made it a point to letme know that she cared.
You know what's really weird?
This is really weird.
You want to talk about weird Me?
(36:07):
Me, I was trying to connectwith her.
Yeah, I'm fucking embarrassed.
What I did was I came dressed asher I did.
I was wearing the same hair,because I have eyes that don't
(36:32):
converge, and so the eye doctorhad said that I could try
eyeglasses.
So here I was trying eyeglasses, so I got the same kind that
she had.
And here was mini her, yeah,sitting in her classroom.
I'm not kidding you, and it wasjust because she liked me.
Yeah, and I thought, okay, I'llbe like her.
(36:54):
Yeah, no, because we're tryingto figure out who we are, and I
didn't have all these people athome that I could figure out and
I didn't want to be like any ofthem.
Right, I was, and that's partof it too.
You're trying to connectbecause we're trying to grow,
we're trying to find ouridentities.
Yes, so you know we're in, andso I just thought oh OK, I'll be
like her no-transcript exactly.
(37:53):
And so um.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
I borrowed her, like I think I borrowed her jacket,
her soccer jacket, I don't knowwhat it was, but I, it was my
point to do that and it was likeyou know, yeah, you're kind of
like hey, I just yeah, so Iunderstand.
I mean it was only Halloween,but the mind I understand child.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
So there is that.
Yeah, I mean we're.
Facebook friends and shelistens to my the podcast
sometimes.
And I did reach out to theteacher who I ran away to her
house before and you know, itmight not have been anything,
but if for any reason that thereis a kid, if for any reason
that there is a kid, because she, let me say this, I did message
(38:44):
the teacher who I ran away toher house.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
And she said ignored it.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I have somebody like that too.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
She will not.
I'm still that needy kid.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
In seventh grade that ran away to her house.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
And that's how she sees me.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
I think I have somebody just like that and it
doesn't.
It kills you because you'relike no, see me now.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yeah, I mean the point that I think that I would
reach out to her maybe makes itseem like I might still be that
person, right, but the point ofit was because, well, I mean, I
am Facebook friends with some ofmy teachers, but it's just, I'm
so proud of who I am today,yeah, and I'm so proud of my
(39:32):
kids and where we are and Ibought my own house and all
these things.
I'm just, you know, and I don'tknow, there was a teacher in my
past who knew I was drinking andshe did nothing.
She just kind of still everyday, would sit with me in high
school and not do very anythingabout it.
(39:52):
Really, she knew I was drinkingand she wasn't really helping
me and, um, I think, I don'tknow, should she have done
something?
Probably maybe she thought thatshe was doing something by
allowing me to continue thosebehaviors but still remain
friendly with me.
Yeah, I don't know, maybe, um,that was what she was doing.
(40:14):
But I just want to address that.
If there is somebody from yourpast and you are a teacher, an
educator, an adult, in any formof relationship that you had
with somebody, and they'retrying to reach out to you, it
might just be a friend request.
Give them a chance.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
You know, because they might just be that
different person and maybe theywant to tell you how special you
were to them and what adifference you made in their
life, and that's all that theywant to do.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
That's exactly what I've set out to do and that was
my point too is to, like you, Iwant to share my successes, like
, hey, I just want you to knowthose little things I got from
you.
I'm here now.
I'm not.
I've written a different storyfor my life.
I, you know.
Like you said, I quite often,and I see the area I was in, I
(41:15):
know that there are differentroutes.
I could have gone down, but Ididn't.
And you do you want to say,like, I just want you to know
that, hey, I've got a family,I'm doing this.
I, you know exactly like youjust want them to see your
accomplishments and I have to behonest, I I'm pretty fortunate.
Um, there are, like I have, allthese women in the book um to I
(41:41):
have not been able to find, toconnect with, to be able to say,
hey, um, you know, thank youfor those little moments that
you didn't you had, butinfluenced me in so many ways.
Um one that, just like you, it's, it's, it's no response back,
like nothing.
And I know she got the bookbecause she responded.
(42:03):
I got the book but I've never.
I don't know how she took itand I think I'm the same way as
where.
You know.
I might've pressed it so muchthat it looks like I'm that
needy kid again.
But for all the other women itwas really nice to be able to
say that the connections I madewith them that they didn't know
I made, but those connectionshelped me to become the person
(42:25):
that I am today, that successfulperson, the person who you know
has has.
I was not supposed to be any ofthe things that I was supposed
that I am today.
I was labeled when I was a kid.
That's what they labeled metrash.
I'm not trash.
I just want you to know thatright, right, you know two
things.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
First of all, right after my dad died, there was a
teacher named Mr Belcher he's nolonger alive A giant of a man
and everybody used to say thathe would paddle everybody and
there were holes in the paddle,and you know, to make sure it
went faster.
(43:06):
And you know, he was thebiggest, scariest man, yeah, he,
right after Thanksgiving break,first day back, he had been my
fifth grade teacher.
Now I'm in sixth grade.
He went from the fifth gradehallway all the way to the sixth
grade hallway, asked for me tocome out of the classroom, got
(43:29):
down on my level from like sixeight down to me and was looking
me eye to eye from on his kneeand said I am so sorry that that
happened and if there'sanything that you need, I am
here.
And do you know, I never tookhim up on it because I was just
(43:53):
quiet.
If he would have kept coming tome and making sure that we had,
but he left it in my court tocome to him, right, and you know
, that's another thing is asbeautiful of a soul as he was.
It would have been awesome ifhe would have tried to continue
that with me.
Yeah, tried to continue thatwith me.
(44:17):
Yeah, because I wasn't that kidthat was going to go to them
and know the words and know howto ask and say what I needed and
wanted to talk.
So it just never happened.
But I ran into him several timesas an adult and he always asked
me how I was, how my mom was.
And you know, it was really.
He was just a really great manand I'll never forget him
(44:38):
because of that.
But the other side of it is Iused to feel guilty for being
that kid Guilty and I wasashamed of who I was.
But now that I've got degreesand all of this stuff and I've
worked in battered women'sshelters and women and with
(44:58):
women who have been raped andwith abused kids and shelters
and worked in the jail, you knowa lot about being on.
That other side has taught mehow people like that like me,
tick, who have been denied theirbasic need of being loved, you
know needed and made to feelimportant and a part of and part
(45:22):
of a family, you know thatsense of belonging is what we
just are looking for.
It's a sense of belonging.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
It's just so important.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Yeah, oh, belonging is such a perfect thing.
Yeah, absolutely, because youdon't know where you fall when
you're.
You know in the you know lifeof trauma.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
How in the world could we have gone through what
we did as a kid and then comeout of it at the same time that
I know me and you probably didtoo felt guilty for having those
needs?
Oh, guilty for it yeah,absolutely I still.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
I still struggle with that too, like I still struggle
with that.
I don't know right.
You are so much more ahead ofme than where I am, but I'm
getting older.
Yeah, I know, but am, but I'mgetting there.
Yeah, I know, but I'm still.
I'm getting there, I'm going toget there.
Since our friendship, I couldsay that I've grown so much more
too.
By being able to see you, know,listening to you and seeing
(46:27):
where you were and seeing howthese different things have
changed, you helped open my mindto a lot of different things
where I I'm like God, I really,you know, have come this all
this way.
But, yeah, that belonging, Ithink sometimes that's gosh.
That really is one of thosethings that I remember going
through school trying to figureout where I belonged and the
(46:51):
guilt of it's almost a shamefulthing.
I don't even know if I wouldcall it guilty, but I felt
ashamed and embarrassed that Ihad these needs.
There was embarrassment.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
I think for me that was probably the biggest thing.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
I think I can look back even now, parents who you
know, I didn't see thedysfunction in their families,
which I'm sure that maybe theydid.
But back then it was different.
People really didn't come outwith their dysfunction like they
do now.
Yeah, and everybody hasdysfunction, but back then
(47:32):
everybody was made to feel likethey had the perfect family.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
And that's where our guard goes up.
Right that mask.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Sure, and you genuinely were made to feel as
if there was something wrongwith you because you had these
basic needs.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
But you know, I don't feel ashamed like I used to.
No, I don't feel ashamed like Iused to.
You know the first 30 years ofhorrible decision making because
I eventually I figured it outand I understand that those who
are in those same situations.
I look and I understand them.
(48:10):
I really do, I get it.
I look at two of my youngersand especially look at their
acting out behaviors and I knowthat all they need is some extra
love 24 hours a day.
They just need some extra loveright now because they just do.
They just need it, and that'snot a bad thing.
(48:35):
That is how we're wired.
Like I said at the verybeginning, that that's how God
made us and I really believethat that's.
You know, that's just who weare and what we need.
I don't feel ashamed anymorebecause there is no one who
would have been healthier.
I mean, if you look ateverything I went through, what
(48:59):
you went through, and me also asan autistic individual who
lacked communication skills, andthen you add the layer of
adoption, you add the layer oftrauma, you add the layer of my
sister, of my mom, of thewhatever.
I mean there was so much morethat I haven't even mentioned,
but layers and layers and layersand the lying and the deceit
(49:21):
and you know, honestly, all itshows is how strong I really was
.
We are strong and we're notweak to need connection with
people outside of our immediatefamily if all we're doing is
just trying to seek a basic need.
Speaker 2 (49:43):
Yeah, you know what?
I constantly remind myself thatit wasn't my fault that I
needed those things.
You know, I tell myselfconstantly's it's not your fault
just because you needed those.
Because, you know, in highschool I put up this thing where
and I remember high school,I'll say high school, I mean
cause people understood a littlebit more.
(50:05):
But I used to, you know, nobodyknew about my whole life
because I was embarrassed aboutit.
Nobody knew this, this need forthe connection, um, but yeah,
when you go into the, you feelguilty about it, that you had it
.
It's not my fault and I do.
I have to tell myself sometimes, because that helps relieve
that embarrassment and shamethat I've lived with for so long
(50:29):
, and to tell yourself, like youknow, it's not your fault and
look at, yeah, look where we'vecome.
I mean to think about all thosemissed opportunities or missed
connections that now, today, wecan say you know where we're at
now.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I listen,I'm still going to constantly
(50:53):
work on myself.
I do believe that, I think youknow it's a learning and growth
thing.
I mean, I listen, I'm stillgoing to constantly work on
myself.
I do believe that I think youknow it's a learning and growth
thing.
I'm not where I want to be, butI'm definitely not where I used
to be.
And and it does, it goes, likeyou know, I I can't be
embarrassed because of theconnections that I wanted or
that I needed, I think, cause,like you said, that I wanted or
(51:16):
that I needed, I think, because,like you said, it's basic.
It's a basic thing that we needas just human beings, right?
So, yeah, I definitely feelmyself saying, you know,
reminding myself that it's notyour fault the things that
happened to you.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
It's not your fault.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
You give yourself yourself, you know, you give
yourself permission tounderstand that we gave
ourselves permission, but Ithink if we know somebody who
needs to hear it, yeah it's notyour fault, and it takes me
always back to that scene inGood Will Hunting.
(51:53):
Oh, yes, yes, and Robin Williamsis just.
You know, it's not your fault.
Right, it's not your fault.
It's not your fault, you know,because he finally broke.
Yeah, he realized that itwasn't his fault and we really
do own so much of what happensto us as kids yeah, yeah, yeah,
(52:21):
it's.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
It's like I said.
For me it's been the you know.
You do you feel likeembarrassed that you had those
needs, but it wasn't your faultthat you had them yeah, well, I
want to thank you, denise, forbeing why.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
You know, sit down with them and maybe you are
(53:00):
having your heartstrings tuggedand if you are there, there
might be a reason that you're infront of them and maybe you
just might be that person.
So I'll tell you, it doesn'ttake a lot.
It might seem like a child is alot, but it doesn't take a lot
to fulfill what they need.
I mean, yes, it does, but notnot it, but in the moment, just
(53:24):
be in the moment.
Be in the moment, and it's not.
Some might need more and moreand more, but that might mean
that there is just a lot of hurt.
And once that stability isthere, and once they feel loved
and important, some of thosebehaviors might subside.
And you know, I have heard aword keep coming up with me and
(53:47):
that was the word important.
And I think it's becauserecently my son said to me he's
doing something with drums andhe's amazing at drums and he's
not.
He struggles with everything inlife.
And he said it makes me feelimportant.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Isn't that awesome.
That is awesome Because we wantto feel important.
We want to do it.
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
I mean, he has everything against him, but
drums make him feel important.
So, no matter what, we figureout how to get to drums, because
I want him, I want him topursue that.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
I want to thank you, denise, for being on, and I want
to thank everybody out therefor listening, because these
topics are real and they're hard, and that's what we do at Real
Talk is we get raw, and I reallyappreciate each and every one
of you for listening and I hopethat you can take it with you
and you can share it withsomebody else.
So thank you for listening andwe will see you next time.
(54:54):
I'm going to add this littlebit of information at the end.
Here's a quote by MariskaHargitay, which is one of my
very favorite people in thewhole universe because of what
she does with SVU to help peoplewho have been victims or
survivors of crime, and she sayshealing takes time and asking
(55:15):
for help is a courageous step.
Let's say that one more timeHealing takes time.
So I want to tell you right nowdon't be down on yourself,
don't compare yourself, don'ttry to be like somebody else
when it comes to healing, andthere is no wrong amount of time
that it takes you, and askingfor help is a courageous step.
(55:36):
It takes courage to talk topeople, to go on that journey of
becoming a better person, to bea better you, to reveal what
has happened to you, to behonest to yourself in what has
happened to you and to seek thehelp that you need, to find the
(56:00):
right person that you need.
And if it isn't the rightperson, there's nothing wrong
with realizing that and movingon.
One of the biggest defects inlife is the inability to ask for
help, and that's by RobertKiyosaki.
Don't be afraid to askquestions.
Don't be afraid to ask for helpwhen you need it.
(56:20):
I do that every single day.
Asking for help isn't a sign ofweakness.
It's a sign of strength.
It shows you have the courageto admit when you don't know
something and to learn somethingnew.
That's Barack Obama, and I wantto add to that that, when it
comes down to you, to your ownpersonal what you need in order
(56:44):
to be your best self, there isnothing wrong at all for asking
for help.
And if somebody is making youfeel shame or embarrassment or
like there is something wrongwith you asking for help, then
it's time to just move on.
Les Brown said ask for help notbecause you are weak, but
(57:07):
because you want to remainstrong.
I'll leave you with that.
Thank you for listening.
Again to Real Talk.
We got you.
We again to Real Talk.
We got you.
We can do this together.
There's purpose in the pain andhope in the journey.
This is Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
This is part two of attentionseeking versus connection
seeking.
As we said in part one andyou'll hear in part two,
connection is a basic need andyou should not feel guilty for
not having that fulfilled.
It is not your fault.
It is not shameful for you tohave needs that were not
fulfilled, but how we go aboutgetting those needs fulfilled is
(00:31):
important.
I remember holding hands withwomen who murdered and had
friends who were prostitutes,having worked in the jail, and I
can tell you that sellingyourself to those pains and
hurts and reliving the pain overand over again is not the way.
Seeking connections in waysthat are harmful will never
fulfill those basic needs.
They will only take you on theroad of shame and self-harm.
(00:54):
Reliving trauma is a sign thatyour basic needs were not met
and the only way you know how toget that love is in the wrong
way and you deserve better.
You know how to get that loveis in the wrong way and you
deserve better.
You deserve to be loved.
Some people act out indifferent ways or stay away from
commitment or allow hurts todefine who they are.
(01:14):
The pains of the past are notwho you are.
Remember that Definitions ofothers are not who you are, and
you were made for better.
You deserve better.
God loves you too.
And if you are someone whodoesn't believe in God, I'm were
made for better.
You deserve better.
God loves you too.
And if you are someone whodoesn't believe in God, I'm not
here to preach, but when I wrotemy book the Sinful Woman, it
was about a woman who had laidbefore Christ at his feet and he
(01:35):
saw her heart, while those whowere church leaders saw only her
actions.
I know what that is like.
I know what it is like forpeople to judge me because of my
actions, because of actionsthat I took when I was in pain
and hurting, when I was at atime in my life that I acted out
and was seeking connections inall the wrong ways, when I was
(01:56):
numbing and when I dideverything not to feel because
my inner child that had gonethrough so much was not healed.
Seek help, knowing that thereis nothing wrong with who you
are.
Right now in your life, it istime to rid of the shame and
enter into healthy relationshipsand know that you, too, deserve
love, and you just need tolearn how to receive positive,
(02:17):
true, loving love.
Thank you so much for listeningto part two of attention
seeking versus connectionseeking.
Here is part two.
Good job, thank you.
It is critical.
Yeah, attachment is formed as achild and I do know people that
(02:37):
continually seek and seek andyou know, for that connection I
really feel for anybody who hasnever had those.
When I worked in the group homefor abused kids, I had one.
I had one of them when he agedout.
He aged out.
(02:58):
What are you going to do?
You got nowhere to go.
You literally have your stuffon the front porch and it's bye.
Yeah, there was nobody on theother side to pick him up.
He ended up on my door because Ihad had him and a couple of the
other kids that were in theshelter at my house for
(03:20):
Christmas before, and it was,you know, approved and
everything.
We were allowed to do that, infact, other staff.
We took some of the kids homebecause they had nowhere to go,
and so he knew where I lived.
Apparently.
He remembered and I opened thedoor and there he was.
So he's 18.
(03:47):
He has nowhere else to live andhe's sleeping on my couch, you
know, for a couple months, andso we helped figure it out for
him.
But you know, I mean, it's justso critical.
What do you do with these kidsthat are like this, that become
adults, and it doesn't end justbecause you turn 18.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
We have to understand the motivation behind behaviors
, and there's a website, safes.
Safes blogs states thatconnection-seeking behaviors are
all about a genuine need foremotional closeness and
meaningful interaction.
These behaviors requireparents' precise attention and
(04:31):
conversations about feelings.
Validating their emotions,setting aside quality time and
teaching problem-solving skillsare just a few of the strategies
that can strengthen theparent-child bond while
promoting healthy development.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, they also say.
Children with attention-seekingbehaviors may act out, seek
constant praise or approval, orengage in disruptive behavior to
draw attention to themselves,Unlike connection-seeking, which
focuses on building meaningfulrelationships.
Unlike connection seeking,which focuses on building
(05:13):
meaningful relationships,attention seeking behavior is
often driven by a need forimmediate gratification or
validation from others.
While attention seekingbehavior may temporarily fulfill
the child's desire forattention, it may not address
the underlying emotional needsto contribute to the development
of secure attachment withparents.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Based on an article by Wendy and I think it might be
Wisner what to Know AboutAttention Seeking Behavior.
Children's attention seekingbehaviors are usually normal and
not necessarily bad.
Young children especially tryto figure out what's appropriate
and what's not by testingboundaries.
(05:48):
We all know that one oh yeah.
When kids misbehave, it can be asign of their need for help.
To recognize attention-seekingbehavior in your children, you
need to be attentive to certainsigns and patterns, and it says
that here are some commonindicators.
And it says that here are somecommon indicators Constant
interruptions.
Children seeking attention mayinterrupt conversations or
(06:09):
activities frequently and I knowsome kids that do this.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
This way they intend to divert attention to
themselves.
Exaggerated behaviors they mayexaggerate or engage in
exaggerated or dramaticbehaviors to capture attention,
such as loud outbursts orover-the-top gestures or making
a scene in public.
I think a lot of kids do thattoo.
I do.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I think so.
Yeah, you know, some of thisstuff is somewhat normal, just
normal for being a kid Demandingbehavior, attention-seeking
children often show demandingbehavior, insisting on immediate
responses to their needs ordesires.
I mean, I know some adults thatstill do that.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, yeah, seeking approval that's another thing,
too, that adults can seek.
They may constantly look forpraise or validation for even
minor accomplishments.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
You know, and I think that that is that little little
kid that just never gotfulfilled inside them.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
You know, look at this mommy, look at this mommy,
you know, and it just was neverfulfilled.
So it continues as they getolder, Competing for attention.
They may compete with siblingsor peers for attention, feeling
threatened by others receivingmore focus.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Oh man, I can, I can.
There was in high school acoach one of my coaches which
I'm friends with now, and therewas a competition between
another.
We all wanted her attention,but there was another girl who
who?
We had an unhealthy competitionfor attention from our coach.
(08:00):
It was like we were seeking this, you know, and any like it was
a back and forth you know, soyeah, I can say, I can say for
sure that, competing for thatattention to an attention
seeking language, they may usephrases like look at me or watch
this to draw attention to theiractions or achievements and
(08:22):
again, like that, sometimes it'snormal Kids will do that, but
not always.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
This website says that if we ignore a child's
attention-seeking behavior, itcan develop unhealthy actions
and feelings impacting theirrelationships in the future.
Initially, the child mightintensify their
attention-seeking attempts inresponse to being ignored, so
there's a high risk of harmingthemselves, causing irreversible
damage.
(08:49):
Moreover, emotionallyunavailable parents can provoke
feelings of frustration andresentment, causing the child to
interpret the lack ofresponsiveness as rejection.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's you know, and I'll be
vulnerable here.
I have a lot of that whereyou're seeking somebody to.
You know I have what is itcalled I'm constantly afraid of
when you have the attachment soyou're feeling like you're going
(09:23):
to be abandoned, right?
So I definitely have.
I struggle with abandonmentissues from, say, friends, or I
have this cousin who I'd gottenclose with I haven't talked to
in quite some bit, and I have totalk about that in therapy
because you automatically assumethat you're being abandoned.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Because it was unfulfilled.
Correct, because you would nothave that if it was.
I know for sure, because itreally does lead to children
feeling unworthy and turninginto attention-seeking behavior
yeah, behavior.
Furthermore, the article saysconsistent disregard for a
(10:07):
child's attempts at connectionmay interrupt their learning
process or effectivecommunication skills and
emotional regulation Check,check, check, check, check,
check.
Every single one of those.
Yeah, I that you know?
Effective communication skills?
(10:28):
Not at all.
Emotional regulation Never, andmy learning process was like
out the door.
I mean it.
Just, it was horrible.
I mean all of those horrible.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I mean, all of those Did you feel like?
So I felt like as I grew and Ididn't have, you know, all that,
you almost put this guard up.
You know we always talk aboutputting up the wall and
protecting yourself.
It's almost like as an adult,like I felt like I was in this
cocoon.
So it wasn't.
You know, I wasn't able tocommunicate these things.
I didn't have that regulationof the emotions and the things,
(11:10):
so I tried to keep myselfbarricaded where I didn't let
people in.
And when you don't do that, youdon't have that healthy
relationship and healthyunderstanding of what a
relationship especially in theconnections of what we'll go
parent, because I have to speakon that.
My personal thing is, you know,you've kept people at a
(11:31):
distance because you didn't know, like I didn't know how to act.
I was so used to acting in thatdefensiveness.
One of the fears was like Idon't know how to be.
I don't know how to make aconnection like this.
I'm afraid this type of whenyou grow up without it, you now
become afraid of the connection.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
As an autistic individual, I think that we
naturally do that.
I think neurotypical people doit too.
But I go into a room and I'mwatching everybody, their house
and I watched how they didsomething, or they all sat
around the table and this iswhat they did, and then they got
up and they all put the dishesand then they swept the the
floor after and they all youknow and I would like take all
this in- yeah and I'd be like,okay, this is what we do you
(12:39):
know yeah so I mean it's, it'sreally good, in a way, that we
were able to take thosescenarios in our lives, or the
people that made differences inour lives, and be able to
channel the things that theytaught us in order for us to be
better parents that's.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I mean, that's my whole entire book, and what I
speak about is that these thingsthat you would naturally get at
home, that you would form,these understandings that you
would get from a parent, from amom, I wasn't getting that and,
you know, ended up getting thesethings from these teachers up,
things you kind of watch.
You watch as like, oh, should Ibe this way, should I act this
way?
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I didn't know how to cook, I had never cooked a meal,
oh yeah, I had never donelaundry, I had never done any of
those things, the normaleveryday things for me, and I
wasn't allowed, I had no depthperception, wasn't a lot.
I had no depth perception.
And even if I was in thekitchen and I poured something
(13:47):
at that time of my life becauseI really hadn't learned where
things really were in a glass orsomething now I do know, yeah,
but back then I still don't havethe depth perception but back
then, you know, I just wouldpour and go all over the place
or whatever, and she would justsay you know, get out of here,
you're making a mess.
And I was never.
(14:07):
Just come on, I'm gonna do itwith you, let's yeah together.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
So did you have um with those things?
This is curiosity.
Um, I felt that I learned umwhen you were observing other
people and you were watching howthey did it.
I always say I was watchingfrom the outside of the window,
looking in, and always to be theperson on the inside.
(14:33):
So I felt like, as I watchedthe outside, I had to do those
things and I felt in my mind itwas around me.
I told myself, if I just dowhat they're doing and that's so
, we'll call it normal or that'swhat you're supposed to do,
then I'm going to havesomebody's going to want to have
that connection with me.
Do you know what I mean?
(14:54):
Well, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
In that sense, I like have this visual of.
There was a family that I feltreally connected to, and I was
older at the time and I rememberthem getting a family portrait
and I was so jealous that theycould not be in it.
Now did I know I wasn't a partof their family?
(15:16):
Yes, yeah, but on the inside Iwas living this thing with.
You know that they fulfilled alot for me yeah and I don't know
.
I guess I wanted them torecognize me but as that, but
not I.
(15:37):
I think it's kind of weird tosay that I wanted them to
recognize me as a family memberbecause I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
But there's part of you that wanted that right, that
little kid in me yes thatlittle kid in me wanted that.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
But again, I grew out of that.
I'm so thankful.
I'm just not that person.
You know, I adopted all five ofmy kids and they have all
handled their adoptionsdifferently and I was adopted.
So you know, I adopted all fiveof my kids and they have all
handled their adoptionsdifferently and I was adopted.
So you know my experience too.
So I kind of have six well,seven really, including my
(16:16):
sister, but my youngest oldest,if that's how I can say it,
child Out of five.
She would be my second, okay,and she's 29 now, but she was an
amazing kid, you know, anamazing child, and she always
(16:37):
wanted connection with me.
I mean she would lay her headon me.
I mean she still does whenwe're together and just sends me
texts that she loves me.
But and she has my handwritingtattooed right here on her and I
have hers tattooed right here.
It's in her handwriting.
(16:58):
And she drew a sun and a moonand I think I told you maybe
about this in another episode,but it was, um, you know, it's
the sun and the moon.
You are my sunshine and I loveyou to the moon and back.
And she drew this little thingand it just says Morse.
I love you, morse, because wehave this thing about most and
more.
I love you more and most.
(17:18):
And we just would still to thisday.
Whenever we talk to each other,we say Morse.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
So yeah, it's a really cool thing, but she I
mean she went through a lot andthat's who she is.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
We always had a really deep connection.
Now my oldest out of thelittles he is 11, and he has a
lot of disabilities, so I thinkthat that might have something
to do with it, but he just loveseverybody and he wants
attention all the time.
I mean all the time.
(17:57):
So it gets a lot and it is hardwhen he acts out and I'm
constantly, even as his mom,reminding myself he just needs
me to listen, he just needs meto be there for him, to sing to
him, because he loves that.
You know you are my sunshine atnight and he smiles over the
smallest interactions and all hewants is love and connection
(18:19):
and to feel important.
And that's so important thatour kids feel important.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, it's so interesting because you had said
that you, you know you're in adifferent place.
I thought I was for a long timetoo, and again I'll share like
cause.
I believe in mental health.
I believe that it's okay to askfor help and to go for help,
and I did.
I started therapy because Iwanted to understand the I guess
(18:48):
what in essence?
Needing to heal the inner child, that child that needs the
connection.
But understanding now, as anadult, how to channel that in
your connection with yourchildren, because I have a great
relationship with my kids.
I have a son who has autism andyou know there's that boundary
that they like you know and I'msure that you have.
(19:11):
Where you know, there's certainthings where this is the
connection is here.
There's still the connection,but it's not like with my
daughter, who's constantly likeover top of me and wants to hear
that I love you and wants tohear all that, because that's
the connection that she needs,that's the connection that she
wants, and I want to do better.
I do that, you know I'm therefor her, but I know that I could
(19:33):
be better, as long as you knowif you're healing those parts of
you that you know that you wereseeking.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
You know, I have two more, my two littles, yeah, and
one is nine and one is eight,and they are as different as
different can be.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I met them.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, my daughter, who is in the middle.
I guess she has the middlesyndrome, I'm not sure, but she
went through so much as a babythat she genuinely needs a lot
of love.
She is the one that in the room, no matter what will be the
(20:17):
loudest, will get the mostattention, will make sure that
she gets the most attention,will make sure that she gets the
most attention.
So, yes, she is an attentionseeker if we go by the
definitions that we just readearlier and the examples.
But honestly, she is thatbecause she didn't get what she
needed as a child.
(20:39):
I can tell you she is the onethat if I lay with her, I tell
you she is the one that if I laywith her, she will just lay all
over me.
She doesn't want me to leave,she wants to be with me.
She really wants the connectionand she wants it from me.
Yeah, will she seek other whatyou know in other areas?
(21:01):
Yes, but she really does wantit for me and if I say let's go
do this or spend time with me, Imean she's on it like that.
She won't even hesitate.
She wants her mom.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
So I mean that really makes me feel good, but it also
makes me feel bad, because Iwasn't there for her the first
18 months and there was so muchdamage already done by the time
I got her and so we'reconstantly trying to fill those
holes that just I have it fulland it's gone.
I have it full and it's gone,you know.
(21:36):
So it's that constant, but sheknows that I really love her,
genuinely love her, and there'sa lot of people in her circle
her teachers, her horsetherapist, her you know all the
people that activities that wedo outside of school.
They really genuinely love herand so I think that she's
(21:59):
constantly getting filled.
So I hope that that helps herlater.
And my eight-year-old he isactually being homeschooled now
Because he just even though Igot him when he was two months,
he had already gone through somuch and he's also very autistic
(22:23):
.
Out of my three autistic kidshe actually is the higher
functioning.
One has the most needs.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
And he wants mom and he just needs one-on-one.
He can't handle a lot.
It's attachment Partly, partly,but it really now that I've
been doing this with him.
(22:53):
He genuinely cannot handle alot of noise and a lot of
whatever's going on in theclassroom yeah, and so it turns
into fight or flight, likereally fast, yeah, and so you
can't learn like that.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
No.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
So he is a genius.
Yeah, he reads it, he knows it.
He's doing math right now, waybeyond the other two, and that
could have been part of it.
Yeah, you know, he's in secondgrade.
Maybe he was bored, I'm notsure.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah, but he, he, he loves his mom.
I am everything.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I know, I see, I see that.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
You know, I fulfilled it through my kids, what I did
with my parents and I had yeah,I did with them.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I have to, but I think, as a there's there's
still something missing, butit's something.
That's why I go to therapy, sothat I can I don't want to say
accept it, but understand whereI am today and maybe more
appreciate the connections thatI have with certain people and
and the connections that I have.
Like I said, I have all thesewonderful people in my life and
(24:03):
I am very appreciative of them,and I think that's where it's
like I have to understand that alot of people don't get that.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, I mean I needed two things to happen.
I needed one to have the kidsthat I have, including, I'm
going to say, both of my olderkids yeah because I genuinely
love both of them.
Um, but you know I needed that,yeah, also needed for my mom to
(24:31):
pass away my adopted mom topass away and I know that that
sounds horrible, but I wasn'table to really become fully who
I am until that happened.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
So you know, it allowed me to live and I was no
longer that person looking forattention seeking behavior.
Yeah, and there was absolutely100% reasons why I was that
person.
Yeah, I lived in fear and Iwould say that was the my
biggest.
That was who I was, was fear.
(25:03):
I was looking everywhere.
I was looking everywhere tofeel safe.
I was looking for a person tobe safe and the second I'm not
kidding you, the second that shewas gone and that fear was gone
, I was okay.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Isn't that crazy?
That's so crazy.
But I can understand that whenI started speaking is when I
started to realize that fear isstarting to go away, because I
can use my voice now and I'm notafraid to use my voice.
I think that something thatalso helps me is that I've
(25:43):
gotten so much feedback from theschools, from the teachers,
about how much they need to hearfrom someone who has a lived
experience, and that fulfills me.
That really gives me that youstart like you.
You said you start to live andI'm starting.
I'm starting.
(26:03):
So I'm not, I mean, I'mstarting on my journey now, so
I'm a little bit delayed, butit's okay because, um, yeah, you
, you start to.
Um, I see that I'm fulfillingthese gaps in different areas by
different things, and I thinkthat that's the most interesting
thing too.
(26:25):
So, yeah, I think I'm gettingit in the different areas, and I
love this area.
I love being able to talk, Ilove being able to share my
story.
It releases that weight thatyou live with right, that weight
of fear.
It releases it and allows youto become who you've always been
(26:46):
.
You've just been like hiddenand trapped inside.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Very true, you know, when you're a child and you
don't feel safe or feel that itis okay or that it might not
ever be okay, I mean, what ahorrible feeling yeah, that it
might feel like it might notever be okay.
It's a scary place to live.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
To feel like you can't even go to sleep because
you are afraid.
When I had my sister stillliving with us that she was
going to die because she wasbeing abused next door to me in
the bedroom, and I was scaredtoo for my own safety.
But also I had these dreams ofmy deceased dad in my window
(27:34):
every night, after he died forwell, I know it was at least a
year died for well, I know itwas at least a year.
But the same exact dream andafter I fell asleep and the same
thoughts.
Before I would fall asleep, Ibelieved with all of my heart
that he was still alive underthe ground and he was trying, he
(27:56):
was coming back and he wasgoing to kill me.
Oh, gosh was trying, he wascoming back and he was going to
kill me.
Oh gosh, and nobody.
I couldn't tell anybody, Ididn't have anybody to talk to
about this.
Yeah, and nobody really seemedto care.
I don't know, but I'm not sure.
But if a child acts like theyare okay, yeah, after a lot of
(28:17):
trauma or loss, that does notmean that they are.
They are just putting on a mask.
Alert, alert, you know, come onred flags.
I just want to say that at mydad's funeral I stared at his
chest.
Well, actually the callinghours, or viewing however you
want to say it.
I sat there in this one chairand actually I mean, here was
(28:42):
the room.
And then right outside of theroom there was a set of chairs
and I sat right where I couldsee him.
Nobody was sitting with me, Iwas by myself and I just kept
staring at him, watching hischest go up and down.
I was certain that it was and Iwent around.
(29:05):
I went to my mom and I'm likecan't you see that he's
breathing?
It was like, oh no, he's notDismissed me, I believe.
I went to one or two otherpeople.
Everybody dismissed me and kindof laughed it, laughed it off,
you know, like, yeah, right, no,he's not.
(29:25):
But I believed that we buriedhim alive and it was all my
fault, and he found himself outof the grave.
He figured out how to get outof the grave and he really was
coming to get me because I lethim die, yeah, under that ground
.
So I was petrified after that.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
That would scare me.
That would scare me.
That's a big trauma to gothrough.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
It is that whole time .
And then imagine trying to goto school right after that or
while that's happening.
All this stuff is going on inmy world and I'm trying to
maintain this sense of normalcy.
Nothing was normal and I wastrying to be the normal in the
(30:12):
room.
I mean now my, you know, theday of Thanksgiving.
The day of Thanksgiving becausehe died November 25th, two days
before Thanksgiving.
It day of Thanksgiving becausehe died November 25th, two days
before Thanksgiving.
It was a Tuesday, and I'llnever forget it.
And then here we are on aThanksgiving, and while they're
making Thanksgiving dinner andI'm downstairs watching the
(30:34):
parade, I could hear themplanning the funeral.
Nobody's talking to me again.
Come on, let's have dinner.
Come on, let's do this.
We just had a normalThanksgiving.
It was so strange.
I remember he died on a Tuesday.
We had one more day of schoolbefore Thanksgiving.
It would have been a Wednesday.
(30:56):
I got up on my own, I gotdressed as if I was going to
school.
I go down, there's my mom andmy aunts are standing there and
they said to me, kind of in alaughing way what are you doing?
And I said I'm going to school.
And they just all looked at meand said your dad just died.
(31:20):
No, you're not right.
I mean no.
It just doesn't even make senseto me how this was handled yeah
, that you were talking about,um, having the mask on.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
When you go through trauma you wear.
It's something that one of thethings that I really try to when
I'm speaking at schools.
I share my story and you'veread the book, you know my story
and one of the things like I dotry to help teachers understand
(32:04):
is that a lot of times, kidswho are going through trauma
sometimes will portray that theyhave this wonderful thing at
home.
They're not they.
They're wearing this pretend,we'll say a pretend um persona.
It's like you know I I go intothe thing where, um, when kids
are counting down the days, mostkids are counting down the days
till they have vacation.
Well, the kid who's countingdown the days most kids are
counting down the days till theyhave vacation.
Well, the kid who's countingdown the days who has vacation,
that's going through trauma,lying to you.
(32:25):
They're counting down becausethey're about to go through
something themselves.
You know traumas of not, youknow, and it's something to
recognize, I mean, if you haveany, you know hints of somebody
going through something, um, youknow, kind of recognize that
and maybe ask those questionslike how are you?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
that simple question you yeah, I would, I, yeah, I
would count the days until, um,it was time to go back to school
during a break yeah, so that'sthe same thing.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
that's the same thing because they're for for me.
There's the connections.
Those connections were onlythere and maybe, you know, with
the attention seeking I don'tyou know, it's kind of funny
because when you think about itit's like, do you need the
attention to get the connection?
(33:18):
Like I need your attention,first come get me and then, once
I'm with you, now let's havethe connection.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Right, yeah.
Well, I mean, there were peoplethat I kept trying to have
connection with and I canremember talking about the
funeral.
Again I looked up to thiscousin of mine and I really
liked her, and again it was thatsame feeling that I had with
that teacher, where I'm tryingto say I like you, yeah, it, it
(33:47):
I didn't do that, but I was justreally.
I said to her will you, um,stay at the funeral?
She, she showed up.
Yeah, she is not quite 20 yearsolder than me, but you know
Close enough, yeah, and here Iwas 11, and I really looked up
(34:08):
to her and I said will you stay?
And she said oh, I have to goto so-and-so and go do this and
that, and I'm just like yeah,and that like, and I'm just like
(34:35):
yeah.
So you know those things.
I tried, I did you, or that canyou stay.
You know those were my ways ofsaying.
Can I connect with you?
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Because I couldn't figure out how to put it in
paragraphs.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I, you know it's funny, I had um, and this is
just comes to my mind.
So, uh, obviously I don't havecommunication with my family, Um
, but when I did, I had um, anaunt who's no longer married to
an uncle of mine.
Um, but I had the same thingyou were.
I was looking so hard for thatconnection from her that, like I
remember vividly um sitting ona couch and just trying to
(35:18):
snuggle up to her, just becauseI felt like that, would you know
, you were just looking for thatkind of a connection.
Like I didn't think that thatwas right or wrong, I didn't
know how to, like you said, youdon't know how to say it, you
don't know how, any other way.
So you do things thinking thatthat's the way you gain that
(35:38):
connection, things thinking thatthat's the way you gain that
connection.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Right, great, yeah, I did that too.
You know, I had a math teacherin ninth grade.
This was not really small.
She came to my house and sheate with us and she just cared,
and she made it a point to letme know that she cared.
You know what's really weird?
This is really weird.
You want to talk about weird Me?
(36:07):
Me, I was trying to connectwith her.
Yeah, I'm fucking embarrassed.
What I did was I came dressed asher I did.
I was wearing the same hair,because I have eyes that don't
(36:32):
converge, and so the eye doctorhad said that I could try
eyeglasses.
So here I was trying eyeglasses, so I got the same kind that
she had.
And here was mini her, yeah,sitting in her classroom.
I'm not kidding you, and it wasjust because she liked me.
Yeah, and I thought, okay, I'llbe like her.
(36:54):
Yeah, no, because we're tryingto figure out who we are, and I
didn't have all these people athome that I could figure out and
I didn't want to be like any ofthem.
Right, I was, and that's partof it too.
You're trying to connectbecause we're trying to grow,
we're trying to find ouridentities.
Yes, so you know we're in, andso I just thought oh OK, I'll be
like her no-transcript exactly.
(37:53):
And so um.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
I borrowed her, like I think I borrowed her jacket,
her soccer jacket, I don't knowwhat it was, but I, it was my
point to do that and it was likeyou know, yeah, you're kind of
like hey, I just yeah, so Iunderstand.
I mean it was only Halloween,but the mind I understand child.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
So there is that.
Yeah, I mean we're.
Facebook friends and shelistens to my the podcast
sometimes.
And I did reach out to theteacher who I ran away to her
house before and you know, itmight not have been anything,
but if for any reason that thereis a kid, if for any reason
that there is a kid, because she, let me say this, I did message
(38:44):
the teacher who I ran away toher house.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
And she said ignored it.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I have somebody like that too.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
She will not.
I'm still that needy kid.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
In seventh grade that ran away to her house.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
And that's how she sees me.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
I think I have somebody just like that and it
doesn't.
It kills you because you'relike no, see me now.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yeah, I mean the point that I think that I would
reach out to her maybe makes itseem like I might still be that
person, right, but the point ofit was because, well, I mean, I
am Facebook friends with some ofmy teachers, but it's just, I'm
so proud of who I am today,yeah, and I'm so proud of my
(39:32):
kids and where we are and Ibought my own house and all
these things.
I'm just, you know, and I don'tknow, there was a teacher in my
past who knew I was drinking andshe did nothing.
She just kind of still everyday, would sit with me in high
school and not do very anythingabout it.
(39:52):
Really, she knew I was drinkingand she wasn't really helping
me and, um, I think, I don'tknow, should she have done
something?
Probably maybe she thought thatshe was doing something by
allowing me to continue thosebehaviors but still remain
friendly with me.
Yeah, I don't know, maybe, um,that was what she was doing.
(40:14):
But I just want to address that.
If there is somebody from yourpast and you are a teacher, an
educator, an adult, in any formof relationship that you had
with somebody, and they'retrying to reach out to you, it
might just be a friend request.
Give them a chance.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
You know, because they might just be that
different person and maybe theywant to tell you how special you
were to them and what adifference you made in their
life, and that's all that theywant to do.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
That's exactly what I've set out to do and that was
my point too is to, like you, Iwant to share my successes, like
, hey, I just want you to knowthose little things I got from
you.
I'm here now.
I'm not.
I've written a different storyfor my life.
I, you know.
Like you said, I quite often,and I see the area I was in, I
(41:15):
know that there are differentroutes.
I could have gone down, but Ididn't.
And you do you want to say,like, I just want you to know
that, hey, I've got a family,I'm doing this.
I, you know exactly like youjust want them to see your
accomplishments and I have to behonest, I I'm pretty fortunate.
Um, there are, like I have, allthese women in the book um to I
(41:41):
have not been able to find, toconnect with, to be able to say,
hey, um, you know, thank youfor those little moments that
you didn't you had, butinfluenced me in so many ways.
Um one that, just like you, it's, it's, it's no response back,
like nothing.
And I know she got the bookbecause she responded.
(42:03):
I got the book but I've never.
I don't know how she took itand I think I'm the same way as
where.
You know.
I might've pressed it so muchthat it looks like I'm that
needy kid again.
But for all the other women itwas really nice to be able to
say that the connections I madewith them that they didn't know
I made, but those connectionshelped me to become the person
(42:25):
that I am today, that successfulperson, the person who you know
has has.
I was not supposed to be any ofthe things that I was supposed
that I am today.
I was labeled when I was a kid.
That's what they labeled metrash.
I'm not trash.
I just want you to know thatright, right, you know two
things.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
First of all, right after my dad died, there was a
teacher named Mr Belcher he's nolonger alive A giant of a man
and everybody used to say thathe would paddle everybody and
there were holes in the paddle,and you know, to make sure it
went faster.
(43:06):
And you know, he was thebiggest, scariest man, yeah, he,
right after Thanksgiving break,first day back, he had been my
fifth grade teacher.
Now I'm in sixth grade.
He went from the fifth gradehallway all the way to the sixth
grade hallway, asked for me tocome out of the classroom, got
(43:29):
down on my level from like sixeight down to me and was looking
me eye to eye from on his kneeand said I am so sorry that that
happened and if there'sanything that you need, I am
here.
And do you know, I never tookhim up on it because I was just
(43:53):
quiet.
If he would have kept coming tome and making sure that we had,
but he left it in my court tocome to him, right, and you know
, that's another thing is asbeautiful of a soul as he was.
It would have been awesome ifhe would have tried to continue
that with me.
Yeah, tried to continue thatwith me.
(44:17):
Yeah, because I wasn't that kidthat was going to go to them
and know the words and know howto ask and say what I needed and
wanted to talk.
So it just never happened.
But I ran into him several timesas an adult and he always asked
me how I was, how my mom was.
And you know, it was really.
He was just a really great manand I'll never forget him
(44:38):
because of that.
But the other side of it is Iused to feel guilty for being
that kid Guilty and I wasashamed of who I was.
But now that I've got degreesand all of this stuff and I've
worked in battered women'sshelters and women and with
(44:58):
women who have been raped andwith abused kids and shelters
and worked in the jail, you knowa lot about being on.
That other side has taught mehow people like that like me,
tick, who have been denied theirbasic need of being loved, you
know needed and made to feelimportant and a part of and part
(45:22):
of a family, you know thatsense of belonging is what we
just are looking for.
It's a sense of belonging.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
It's just so important.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Yeah, oh, belonging is such a perfect thing.
Yeah, absolutely, because youdon't know where you fall when
you're.
You know in the you know lifeof trauma.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
How in the world could we have gone through what
we did as a kid and then comeout of it at the same time that
I know me and you probably didtoo felt guilty for having those
needs?
Oh, guilty for it yeah,absolutely I still.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
I still struggle with that too, like I still struggle
with that.
I don't know right.
You are so much more ahead ofme than where I am, but I'm
getting older.
Yeah, I know, but am, but I'mgetting there.
Yeah, I know, but I'm still.
I'm getting there, I'm going toget there.
Since our friendship, I couldsay that I've grown so much more
too.
By being able to see you, know,listening to you and seeing
(46:27):
where you were and seeing howthese different things have
changed, you helped open my mindto a lot of different things
where I I'm like God, I really,you know, have come this all
this way.
But, yeah, that belonging, Ithink sometimes that's gosh.
That really is one of thosethings that I remember going
through school trying to figureout where I belonged and the
(46:51):
guilt of it's almost a shamefulthing.
I don't even know if I wouldcall it guilty, but I felt
ashamed and embarrassed that Ihad these needs.
There was embarrassment.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
I think for me that was probably the biggest thing.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
I think I can look back even now, parents who you
know, I didn't see thedysfunction in their families,
which I'm sure that maybe theydid.
But back then it was different.
People really didn't come outwith their dysfunction like they
do now.
Yeah, and everybody hasdysfunction, but back then
(47:32):
everybody was made to feel likethey had the perfect family.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
And that's where our guard goes up.
Right that mask.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Sure, and you genuinely were made to feel as
if there was something wrongwith you because you had these
basic needs.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
But you know, I don't feel ashamed like I used to.
No, I don't feel ashamed like Iused to.
You know the first 30 years ofhorrible decision making because
I eventually I figured it outand I understand that those who
are in those same situations.
I look and I understand them.
(48:10):
I really do, I get it.
I look at two of my youngersand especially look at their
acting out behaviors and I knowthat all they need is some extra
love 24 hours a day.
They just need some extra loveright now because they just do.
They just need it, and that'snot a bad thing.
(48:35):
That is how we're wired.
Like I said at the verybeginning, that that's how God
made us and I really believethat that's.
You know, that's just who weare and what we need.
I don't feel ashamed anymorebecause there is no one who
would have been healthier.
I mean, if you look ateverything I went through, what
(48:59):
you went through, and me also asan autistic individual who
lacked communication skills, andthen you add the layer of
adoption, you add the layer oftrauma, you add the layer of my
sister, of my mom, of thewhatever.
I mean there was so much morethat I haven't even mentioned,
but layers and layers and layersand the lying and the deceit
(49:21):
and you know, honestly, all itshows is how strong I really was
.
We are strong and we're notweak to need connection with
people outside of our immediatefamily if all we're doing is
just trying to seek a basic need.
Speaker 2 (49:43):
Yeah, you know what?
I constantly remind myself thatit wasn't my fault that I
needed those things.
You know, I tell myselfconstantly's it's not your fault
just because you needed those.
Because, you know, in highschool I put up this thing where
and I remember high school,I'll say high school, I mean
cause people understood a littlebit more.
(50:05):
But I used to, you know, nobodyknew about my whole life
because I was embarrassed aboutit.
Nobody knew this, this need forthe connection, um, but yeah,
when you go into the, you feelguilty about it, that you had it
.
It's not my fault and I do.
I have to tell myself sometimes, because that helps relieve
that embarrassment and shamethat I've lived with for so long
(50:29):
, and to tell yourself, like youknow, it's not your fault and
look at, yeah, look where we'vecome.
I mean to think about all thosemissed opportunities or missed
connections that now, today, wecan say you know where we're at
now.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I listen,I'm still going to constantly
(50:53):
work on myself.
I do believe that, I think youknow it's a learning and growth
thing.
I mean, I listen, I'm stillgoing to constantly work on
myself.
I do believe that I think youknow it's a learning and growth
thing.
I'm not where I want to be, butI'm definitely not where I used
to be.
And and it does, it goes, likeyou know, I I can't be
embarrassed because of theconnections that I wanted or
that I needed, I think, cause,like you said, that I wanted or
(51:16):
that I needed, I think, because,like you said, it's basic.
It's a basic thing that we needas just human beings, right?
So, yeah, I definitely feelmyself saying, you know,
reminding myself that it's notyour fault the things that
happened to you.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
It's not your fault.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
You give yourself yourself, you know, you give
yourself permission tounderstand that we gave
ourselves permission, but Ithink if we know somebody who
needs to hear it, yeah it's notyour fault, and it takes me
always back to that scene inGood Will Hunting.
(51:53):
Oh, yes, yes, and Robin Williamsis just.
You know, it's not your fault.
Right, it's not your fault.
It's not your fault, you know,because he finally broke.
Yeah, he realized that itwasn't his fault and we really
do own so much of what happensto us as kids yeah, yeah, yeah,
(52:21):
it's.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
It's like I said.
For me it's been the you know.
You do you feel likeembarrassed that you had those
needs, but it wasn't your faultthat you had them yeah, well, I
want to thank you, denise, forbeing why.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
You know, sit down with them and maybe you are
(53:00):
having your heartstrings tuggedand if you are there, there
might be a reason that you're infront of them and maybe you
just might be that person.
So I'll tell you, it doesn'ttake a lot.
It might seem like a child is alot, but it doesn't take a lot
to fulfill what they need.
I mean, yes, it does, but notnot it, but in the moment, just
(53:24):
be in the moment.
Be in the moment, and it's not.
Some might need more and moreand more, but that might mean
that there is just a lot of hurt.
And once that stability isthere, and once they feel loved
and important, some of thosebehaviors might subside.
And you know, I have heard aword keep coming up with me and
(53:47):
that was the word important.
And I think it's becauserecently my son said to me he's
doing something with drums andhe's amazing at drums and he's
not.
He struggles with everything inlife.
And he said it makes me feelimportant.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Isn't that awesome.
That is awesome Because we wantto feel important.
We want to do it.
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
I mean, he has everything against him, but
drums make him feel important.
So, no matter what, we figureout how to get to drums, because
I want him, I want him topursue that.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
I want to thank you, denise, for being on, and I want
to thank everybody out therefor listening, because these
topics are real and they're hard, and that's what we do at Real
Talk is we get raw, and I reallyappreciate each and every one
of you for listening and I hopethat you can take it with you
and you can share it withsomebody else.
So thank you for listening andwe will see you next time.
(54:54):
I'm going to add this littlebit of information at the end.
Here's a quote by MariskaHargitay, which is one of my
very favorite people in thewhole universe because of what
she does with SVU to help peoplewho have been victims or
survivors of crime, and she sayshealing takes time and asking
(55:15):
for help is a courageous step.
Let's say that one more timeHealing takes time.
So I want to tell you right nowdon't be down on yourself,
don't compare yourself, don'ttry to be like somebody else
when it comes to healing, andthere is no wrong amount of time
that it takes you, and askingfor help is a courageous step.
(55:36):
It takes courage to talk topeople, to go on that journey of
becoming a better person, to bea better you, to reveal what
has happened to you, to behonest to yourself in what has
happened to you and to seek thehelp that you need, to find the
(56:00):
right person that you need.
And if it isn't the rightperson, there's nothing wrong
with realizing that and movingon.
One of the biggest defects inlife is the inability to ask for
help, and that's by RobertKiyosaki.
Don't be afraid to askquestions.
Don't be afraid to ask for helpwhen you need it.
(56:20):
I do that every single day.
Asking for help isn't a sign ofweakness.
It's a sign of strength.
It shows you have the courageto admit when you don't know
something and to learn somethingnew.
That's Barack Obama, and I wantto add to that that, when it
comes down to you, to your ownpersonal what you need in order
(56:44):
to be your best self, there isnothing wrong at all for asking
for help.
And if somebody is making youfeel shame or embarrassment or
like there is something wrongwith you asking for help, then
it's time to just move on.
Les Brown said ask for help notbecause you are weak, but
(57:07):
because you want to remainstrong.
I'll leave you with that.
Thank you for listening.
Again to Real Talk.
We got you.
We again to Real Talk.
We got you.
We can do this together.
There's purpose in the pain andhope in the journey.
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