April 16, 2025 • 59 mins
Do you like where your thoughts are taking you? Our minds are powerful instruments, capable of leading us toward hope or trapping us in cycles of fear and doubt. When facing situations we can't change – like caring for a loved one with a debilitating condition or confronting triggering circumstances from our past – our thoughts can either become our prison or our pathway forward.
Fear manifests in countless ways: constant anxiety about worst-case scenarios, the belief that we aren't good enough, reluctance to trust others after being hurt, or isolation when connection is what we desperately need. As we explore in this deeply personal conversation, many of us live our lives believing doors are locked when they actually aren't – held captive by perceptions that have become our reality.
Drawing wisdom from Craig Groeschel's "Winning the War in Your Mind" and our own experiences, we unpack the powerful truth that a lie believed affects your life as if it were true. The negative messages we've internalized – often from childhood – can follow us for decades if we don't confront them. Yet even in our most challenging moments, we retain control over how we respond, who we trust, and which thoughts we allow to take residence in our minds.
This episode offers a raw look at navigating chronic difficult situations, building trust when you've been hurt, finding strength in vulnerability, and creating respite within storms you can't escape. Whether you're struggling with "stinking thinking," feeling paralyzed by fear, or battling feelings of unworthiness, remember this: you are not who others say you are – you are who God says you are. And sometimes, the bravest thing we can do is to keep moving forward, one step at a time.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Tina.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I am Anne.
I have a question for you, tina, and for everybody.
Do you like where your thoughtsare taking you?
Solomon in the Bible said as hethinks in his heart, so he is.
You have to change your mind,to change, and you know I have
(00:34):
to be honest right here.
Old thoughts have come into myhead and it is not a good place
to live right now.
And it is not a good place tolive right now.
I'm not loving it.
I wish I could say that I'm justnot going to do this, but I
honestly think that it has to dowith how strong a person is at
(00:55):
the time or how weak you feel,because I'm not feeling that
strong right now.
I'm still getting up and moving.
You know that, fake it till youmake it.
But I'm having this where myold problems are my now problems
, and my head is having a hardtime getting past this.
I'm telling myself don't dothis, don't allow hard times to
(01:19):
lie to you about who you are orthat you can't move forward.
What do you do when you're in abad situation that can't be
changed?
You can't do anything about it.
For instance, tina, you knowyour mom is in a really tough
spot and she's going through areally hard time and that is a
(01:40):
chronic situation.
And what do you do when you'rein that kind of a situation and
you can't do anything about it?
It's a chronic state and youhave to constantly talk to
yourself about how you are goingto move forward in this.
Another instance is and I wantto talk about this, but I want
(02:04):
to talk about it very carefullyyou know, I had a situation that
drained me to my core back inthe day and I didn't know what
to do.
Well, it was a different time,but different.
But not all things arechangeable, you know, and we can
just leave in some situations,but we have to figure out how to
(02:28):
live in certain things andwithout believing the lies that
might infiltrate our thoughtsalong with it.
I'm reading this book Winningthe War in your Mind by Craig
Groeschel maybe his name and oneof the first things I see which
I swear this wasn't by mistakeor, you know, it's kind of like
a God thing I can let God'sthoughts become mine.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
That was a lot to digest and I think it was so
powerful.
And the book by Craig Groeschel, I feel like, is something I
should be reading too.
I read something this week,ironically, that made me ponder
the very things that you'retalking about.
This is from Adam Grant and itsaid a sign of wisdom is
choosing not to believeeverything you think.
(03:15):
A mark of emotionalintelligence is choosing not to
internalize everything you feel.
Thoughts and emotions arepossibilities to ponder, not
facts to accept.
We always have to invite themin, but we do decide whether
they deserve to stay.
Amen, sister, friend, and Ithought that was so powerful.
(03:38):
It's had me kind of thinkingall week and I feel like
whatever issue you're talkingabout has triggered your past,
and that's okay.
I don't like it for you, butthat's okay.
And I think that you're right.
You just have to walk with it.
And in reference to my mom,that's sort of how I feel.
In a few ways, I am thankfulfor how I've been changed
(04:02):
internally, meaning I reallyhave the patience of a saint,
and I never thought I would saythat I'm so proud of how I treat
my mom and how I love herunconditionally, even when it's
hard.
So seeing that about me andseeing how it has impacted our
(04:23):
children, particularly ouryoungest son, has been a
beautiful, heartbreakinglybeautiful thing to see.
I wish he knew her the way Iknew her, but he loves her just
as she is.
That's powerful.
There are times where you'rejust going to have to embrace
(04:48):
where you are, whether you likeit or not, and just have to keep
moving, because moving ismotion.
Motion keeps us going and itwill eventually take us to where
we want to be.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, I mean, our lives move in the direction of
our thoughts, and that's just afact move in the direction of
our thoughts and that's just afact.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
And it's okay that you have those thoughts where
you need to pause and processthem to be able to keep moving
forward.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, I actually I had some meetings with some
people in the last couple weeksthat I don't and I'll talk more
about this later in the podcastbut I really don't like to bring
people outside of my circleinto my life.
I don't like to, and unless Ichoose them and I trust them,
(05:35):
you know, and in both situations, when we were talking about
what's going on, talking aboutwhat's going on, they said wow,
this has got to be so triggeringfor you, how are you?
(05:57):
And that instantly shuts medown.
When somebody asks me thatquestion, you know, like Tina,
if you would say, oh my gosh,ann, that's so horrible, how are
you?
I'd be fine with that questionbecause it's you.
But with somebody that I don'treally know, it brings up this
oh, I'm fine them.
(06:28):
Honestly, I am for counseling.
I don't want this to appear asif I'm not for people on the
outside coming in and helping,but I have to be honest, I have
a wall with certain people andit just instantly goes up when
they say, well, and how are you?
And it's just like, oh my gosh,well, and how are you, you know
(06:48):
, and it's just like, oh my gosh, I'm good, and that's the only
thing that you're gonna get.
So it's being able to let otherpeople and it does.
It's a trigger.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
I can tell I'm sorry, I wish I, I wish it wasn't.
But hopefully you can moveforward and be able to put the
wall down a little bit so maybeinstead of a door it becomes a
window, and then maybe you canopen the window a little bit so
that you can eventually be ableto communicate and see that as
just a friendly.
You know, that person maybedoesn't need to know all the
(07:17):
things about you, but maybe youcould say boy, you know, I'm
okay, just, you know, strugglinga little bit right now with A,
B or C, or I'm okay, I'm juststruggling, or I'm just in a
season of hard, and then seewhat happens from there.
But I mean at the end of theday because I do this too, if I
don't feel comfortable with you,you're not going to get
(07:38):
anything out of me.
See, it's true, but I think Imean in a way I would say I
think we need to listen to thattoo.
There are different levels offriendship and trust with
different people.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
There just are, and that's why you have the inner
circle and then the next circleand then the next circle.
Sure, yeah, I mean, when I wasin college we had that target.
You know the little circle andthen each one and what they were
, and you know letting peopleinto your inner circle and how
important that is and boundariesand everything.
(08:12):
So, yeah, I mean, you know, inAA it was a thing called
stinking thinking and that'swhat I'm, and when it gets a
hold of your brain it's not agood thing.
And normally in AA or intreatment that's when you call a
sponsor.
You know it's like, okay, I'vegot some stinking thinking going
on here, I'm going to call, ormy friend and you know I have
(08:37):
lots of friends and sometimes itjust gets to the point where in
a situation like right nowthat's going on in my life, it's
so much.
It's like you've been stabbed,like you're breathless, laying
on the floor and you don't haveanybody that you really feel
like you want to talk to andreally the only one that you
(08:59):
trust is God.
In my case, the only one is God.
In the book Winning the War inyour Mind, he quoted from 2
Timothy 1.7, exactly what aspirit of fear is, because I'm
(09:23):
not myself and I really didn'tthink about what that this could
actually be a fear in me that'shappening.
So when I looked it up, thefirst thing that came up was
(09:48):
constant anxiety or worry,feeling overwhelmed by what-ifs
and worst-case scenarios, atendency to anticipate danger
even when it isn't present.
And I can say that I probablyam there right now.
My thoughts are not in a goodplace.
Like I said earlier, you and Ihave talked about how our nights
can be, you know, sometimes inthe middle of the night, and
that's kind of where I'm at,even during the day.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I hate that.
I'm so sorry.
I know, though, you'll be ableto work through it, and I can
relate to this and I know somany people can too of that
feeling of being consumed byanxiety, the what ifs.
It's like your mind is playingout a thousand worst case
scenarios all at once, and then,when night hits, it feels like
everything amplifies.
(10:28):
Right, I don't understand whyit does that, but it does.
But here's something I'velearned Fear thrives in the dark
, and when we can start to bringlight to those thoughts and to
just name them for what they arejust thoughts they can lose
their power over us.
I think you know, I will say,in the journey of walking
(10:51):
alongside my mom with her earlyonset Alzheimer's, it has opened
up Pandora's box for me.
I, you know, I take anxietymedication.
I've taken it for almost twoyears now because of how deeply
this has just opened up thespirit of fear, if you will.
And then other, just sadness,extreme sadness.
(11:13):
I mean my mother's not even 65and we're in the late stage of
it.
Things you know when you're alittle girl.
You just assume, and as, evenas you grow up, and even as of
just a few years ago, I wouldjust assume that I would have my
parents until they're 80, andthat's not going to be the case
for my mom.
And so I feel sometimes that Iam alone, not in the physical
(11:39):
sense, like, yes, I have afamily, a husband, kids and my
mom and dad, if you will, andfriends, of course, but
sometimes I still feel alone inthat nobody understands what I'm
going through.
And it's interesting becausewhen someone dies, you typically
(12:00):
have that support around you.
It's usually for a period oftime and then people's lives go
back to normal.
But what about those of uswho've been caregiving for five
years, any amount of time, andyou don't have, per se, that
support?
Now, that's not to say I don'twant any friends listening, who
I have that ask about my mom orwho send a card every couple of
(12:23):
months.
That's what I mean, that iswhat I need, and I'm just saying
in general.
If you don't have the supportsystem, at times it can really
feel like you are so alone, andI felt that.
And then the thoughts start togo down that rabbit hole, kind
(12:44):
of like what you were talkingabout, and it's really hard to
get a grip on them because Ifeel like they go down so fast.
They're spiraling, you spiral,it's spiraling so fast.
And that's why, if we can bringto light, bring light to those
thoughts, just name them forwhat they are.
Okay, they're thoughts.
And remember what I'd saidearlier just because you feel
(13:04):
something doesn't mean you haveto keep it inside of you,
doesn't mean it's um, it's realor it's not.
Do you know what I mean?
You, you get to decide, and soI I think that maybe if we could
just say, okay, these are just,this is just a thought, and
it's going to pass, then it'lllose the power over us yeah, I
mean, I I really do do believethat our thoughts are just some
(13:29):
of the most strongest.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
They are the strongest things and they are
really what I said earlier.
They're just in control andthey can create what is one of
the next ones, a paralysis or aninaction, and you know, I have
felt this at times.
But this is when action andstrength just has to take over
(13:55):
and no matter what, like yousaid, I mean it is a keep moving
.
We've talked about this beforeon the podcast, but I can
literally feel myself tellingmyself one more step, one more
step.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Absolutely.
Oh, I've been there.
I've been there.
When I was on my hikingadventure on the Kalalau Trail,
this is what I felt I wasparalyzed by my fear of falling
off the side of the cliffbecause our day to hike in was
during a tropical storm and so Ifelt I literally froze on the
side of a cliff until my brainlike shifted into gear.
(14:35):
It was like get out of neutral,you have to keep going so that
you do not fall off of here.
It was like Tina, keep goingnow.
I mean, I was literally thatintense with myself and I
experienced that too when my momwas first diagnosed Completely
froze me, it paralyzed me, itconsumed me, and then I had to
(15:00):
pick myself back up and say youhave to start doing something so
that you don't stay in thishard, messy place for too long.
I believe the longer you stay,the harder it is to get out.
You have to feel it, yes, butyou can't stay there too long.
It gets harder and harder toget out.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
And that's where it comes down to.
What I brought up earlier isthat you know what do you do
when you're living in it.
You know it's not a situationwhere it's in your mind only, it
is a.
You are living in thissituation and you can't get out
of it.
There's, I mean, the only timethat you can get out of it is
(15:43):
when you create your own respite.
You know, maybe it's prayer orjust getting away for short
periods of time, going inanother room or just doing
whatever you need to just tofeel a little, maybe a bath.
You know those are the types ofsituations where you really can
only get out of what'sconsuming you, and so it's more
(16:08):
than just your mind.
You know, as soon as you leavethe bath, as soon as you leave
whatever, whatever it is, you'rewalking right back into what's
creating the stress.
So you know it's there's notmuch of a respite time and it't
give you and your body your mindisn't really made for that to
(16:32):
live in a constant, chronicstate of fear.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
You're absolutely right.
I don't know that there's oneright answer for how to deal
with that.
I think you listen to your body, you give it the respite you
can, what it needs when you can,and just know that and trust
you are going to be equipped tohandle it.
And I also think, along the way, be open to learn something
through it or from it, because Ithink there's always, at least
(17:08):
I really, truly believe.
I try to always look at thelesson.
I tend to ask why left and whatdo I need to learn?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
more.
I have this thing where.
And the lady yesterday in themeeting first time meeting and
she's saying you know how isthis affecting you?
I told her the truth in that Ikind of bragged about myself a
little bit, in that I feelsometimes like I'm a superwoman.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
That's because you are, I think that, often about
you.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Because I have this really cool thing about me that
I can just keep moving and itdoesn't really I don't know like
I can start every single daybrand new.
It's a clean slate.
(18:25):
Just start over, move on andsomething might take me back for
a little while, but then I canjust wash it off and continue on
and the resilience and thestrength in me is so strong.
I've had some really bigconversations with God lately
some of those why?
Questions and I guess I have toalso realize that he's given me
strength like no other for meto be able to do it.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
And he knew that I could do this.
It's like the.
I think it's like a tree You'rein the pruning season, but what
happens after you get pruned?
You bloom.
So you're getting trimmed rightnow, you're getting tested
right now, and I think that thisis a big period of growth for
you personally.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
That's going to happen from this, and lots of
times these kinds of things dohappen when there is a lot of
success going on around and goodthings going on around at the
same time.
So it's not allowing thosethings, because there is a lot
of really great things going onin my life, so it's allowing
those really hard times not tostop me from being able to grow
(19:23):
and be happy and joyful aboutthose really great things.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
And at the same time, be okay and not beat yourself
up that there are these greatthings, but there's also a hard
thing too, and they both have tolive together.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Well, we kind of talked about that in our last
episode that we taped together,you know.
And another one that theytalked about for fear is
self-doubt, believing you're notgood enough, not smart enough,
not strong enough, and constantsecond-guessing ourselves and
having a lack of confidence.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Absolutely.
But here is the truthSelf-doubt is just fear in
disguise, and fear only haspower when we believe it.
So I would say you are enough.
To anyone listening.
You are capable, and every timeyou show up, even when you're
doubting yourself, you areproving that inner critic wrong.
Confidence isn't about neversecond-guessing, it is about
(20:24):
pushing forward anyway, and Ithink that we all have what it
takes, even if we can't see ityet.
But we have to keep movingforward.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Another one is fear of judgment or rejection.
Is another one Holding backyour true self out of fear
either of what others mightthink or avoiding vulnerable
situations or meaningfulconnections, and I just kind of
explained how I kind of do that.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
I can really relate to this one too.
The fear of judgment orrejection, I think, is so deeply
ingrained in so many of us thatit does hold us back a lot of
times from showing up as ourtrue selves.
And I know how it feels to hideparts of yourself or to shrink
back because you're worriedabout what others might think.
(21:15):
But here's the thingVulnerability is actually where
we find real connection.
So the more we allow ourselvesto be open and authentic, the
more I think we can create spacefor others to do the same.
I'm not saying it's easy, I'msaying it's something that I
work often at, and I'm gettingmore confident with little by
little, and I think it comeswith age too, to be honest.
(21:37):
But I do think it's possible.
We can choose courage over fear.
So trusting the right peoplewill see us for who we really
are.
It's kind of about that circle.
You know that being vulnerableisn't a weakness, it's a
strength.
Love yourself and others willtoo.
At least the right people will.
(21:58):
There's only one you.
There's no one you-er than you,isn't that, dr Hoots?
And I just I love that.
So if I ever hear my kids say,oh, I want to be you know, I
want to be LeBron James.
I think that's great, to aspireto be like him in many ways the
way he takes care of himself,the way he takes care of his
(22:19):
family, the way he acts as aperson.
He's never been in the news foranything awful, so, yes, but
you are who you are.
Let's just say your name is Joe, you are Joe, be Joe.
Yes, you can be like LeBronJames, but there's only one you,
so no one you are than you, andI hate to see when anybody
(22:41):
holds someone back or gets heldback.
When anybody holds someone backor gets held back, I like to
think that I'm a safe place anda place that's warm for anyone
to just be who they are.
We don't have to agree, but Ican still love without
understanding, and I think ifmore people understood that, the
world would be such a happier,more peaceful place.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, I mean, there's a reason that I went into
counseling for a degree I have amaster's in it and I think that
one of the reasons why I wentthat direction was because I
have this where people want tocome talk to me, you know, and I
have always had this heart forwanting to help people.
(23:23):
I've always had this heart forwanting to help people and I
have that openness towards otherpeople, I mean in a lack of
judgment.
You know, I genuinely feel forthe person and where they are
and want to help them whereverthey are, and but I have a real
(23:43):
problem with reversing that andbeing the one on the other end,
and you know it's I keep peopleat an arm's length and that's
just where I feel comfortable.
And I know too, I'm autistic,and so that absolutely can have
something to do with it.
That absolutely can havesomething to do with it.
(24:05):
Like I said earlier, Tina, yousaid about yourself, it's true,
because you would be somebodythat I would go to and I
wouldn't even hesitate to callyou if I felt like I needed to
talk to somebody, or.
But you know, I really don'tlike this about myself and I
find that interesting that Idon't like it about myself.
(24:26):
Why do I do it then?
You know, that's reallyinteresting to me, I find others
.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I think this is the area where you will probably be
growing.
Maybe or it is okay to keepsome people you need to keep at
arm's length.
Maybe it's about reevaluatingwho is someone new that you
could let in because they mightbecome an important part of your
life and help you through thisnext chapter.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
This might.
This is a wall.
It is a wall for me to talk topeople about my I don't even
want to call them problems mysituations and to let somebody
in.
I really in some ways envypeople that can just sit across
(25:28):
from somebody in a 50-minutehour, you know, for counseling
and just say you know, this iswhere I'm at.
I don't mind being vulnerable,like I said, I don't mind being
vulnerable in writing.
That's what I do.
I'll write or talk to God outloud, I'll walk around the house
talking to him for an hour, youknow, which, by the way, really
does help me.
It honestly does so.
(25:48):
But to sit across from somebodyelse that I don't really know
that well it's.
I think maybe it's somethingthat I need to work through
because you know it's reallyfunny.
It's like I had a really hardtime with adults, authority
people, you know, like that as akid.
Okay, school in general.
(26:09):
Then I had my older two and Ihad to keep getting called to
the principal's office againkind of funny and deal with that
.
So second round here I am againdealing with all the schools
and everything.
Now I adopted my grandkids, whoyou know I don't even like to
say that because they're my kids.
But I'm in my third round ofchildhood, you know, raising
(26:33):
kids.
And now here I am again,constantly in the school system,
having to sit across fromauthority figures, from people
that are making decisions aboutmy kids, and I just find it so
funny that the thing that Ididn't like the most as a kid
(26:54):
has revisited me more and moreall the way through my adulthood
, like I'm talking about withthis counseling thing.
And now here I am.
It is really pushing me outsideof my comfort zone.
So I guess that this is whatI'm supposed to be working on.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah, I would say this is where you're supposed to
be growing, but I don't thinkthat it is easy and I would
imagine that perhaps somethingyou know from your past is
obviously stirred up and maybeyou feel judged it's legit.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
It is just trust I don't trust.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I'm sure it's because people have broken your trust
over the years and so that wallhas been built so high and
that's been your safeguard forso much of your life.
It is hard to start letting itdown, but I think that this is a
season where you're going tolearn how to do that, at least
in some capacity.
(27:54):
It sounds like Well topiggyback off of that in 2018,
through a sad experience, Ilearned something so important
and it became really invaluableto me.
Sometimes truth strength comesfrom letting go, so trusting
that not everything needs to becontrolled and it's okay to
surrender to the flow of life.
(28:14):
I think it can be about findingpeace in what we can control
our mindset and our actions andthen just releasing the rest,
because I learned that year,there's so much we actually do
not have control over, and whenyou let go of control, it really
does make you feel more free.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah, it really does, and it's probably control is so
being able to let go of that isprobably, I think, one of the
hardest things that we do Trustand control, letting go.
Right, I would agree with thatother one that they talk about
(28:57):
is isolation, and I'm not goodin isolation.
That brings up fear in me.
That's another one.
Well, for one thing, you know,my life is so full of people I
really can't get away frompeople and I don't have a choice
about that.
But on the other side of it, Ido like my time alone, but in
(29:20):
short periods of time.
But in general in living Idon't like being alone and I
thrive around others, and beingalone for too long can create
more of a fear.
I mean, it's okay to be aloneat times because, like I said,
we all need that.
I think it's healthy for us tobe alone and that's my time,
(29:43):
that I can kind of process andwork through things, talk to God
, kind of be quiet for a while.
But yeah, no, I don't like theisolation thing.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah, I think there's a difference between quiet time
and then isolation.
You know, quiet time briefperiod of time, isolation, more
lengthy Some of us really do, Iwould say the majority of us
come alive around others.
We're all hardwired forconnection, and extended
isolation it does make you feelheavy and even a little scary
(30:14):
because your thoughts can reallystart to take over.
I had a conversation just acouple days ago with a neighbor
friend who was talking aboutthat very thing.
Both of the kids were gone forthe weekend.
Her husband was too.
She said, boy, that lonelinessor isolation, she said her mind
started to get to a rough placeand she had to pull herself back
up pretty quick.
(30:35):
And that's what I mean.
I think that alone time can behealthy, but too much of it does
make your mind wander into somehard places and it's important
to know what fills you back up.
And for you it sounds likeconnection is a big part of that
and it's really beautiful thatyou have such self-awareness.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
You know I was.
I don't know if you know thisabout me, but I was born well,
not born this way.
But you know, as an infant,shortly after birth, I was
diagnosed failure to thrive.
I was a failure to thrive babyand when you are a failure to
thrive baby it is oftentimes dueto not being nurtured, loved on
(31:21):
and so that isolation feeling.
And actually what's interestingis when you take somebody that
was a failure to thrive as ababy and then you get in
isolated times, it is that samekind of a feeling.
(31:41):
It brings up that failure tothrive kind of a feeling and
it's almost like the life isbeing sucked out of you.
So it's kind of interestingthat feeling, and it's a feeling
that I know, even though youknow it's kind of like a body
memory, yeah, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Well, you know, I know that you have talked about
feeling like you can't havesomeone to turn to or feel, you
know, alone isolation, as we'retalking about, and you know,
I've felt that way too, andnobody wants to feel or be
lonely, like the weight is allon your shoulders.
You have to do it all alone.
(32:20):
The truth is, we're not meantto go through life alone or do
hard things by ourselves.
So maybe if even just openingup to one safe person can make a
difference, I think that's soimportant.
And just to know you're not aburden, I'm talking to you, I'm
talking to me, I'm talking toall of our listeners.
You're not a burden.
(32:40):
You're human and you're allowedto lean on others.
For me, it is a real honor towalk alongside my friends and
family during the good andduring the hard times.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, no, I really believe that, because I prefer
being on that side and I enjoybeing with somebody, not that
they're hurting, of course, butbeing a person that they trust,
because I know how hard it is totrust, to be that person who
doesn't trust.
And when somebody trusts youwith their hardest times, then
(33:17):
you know that's really an honor.
You know we've all been hurt,We've all felt that fear and
know that that's really an honor.
You know we've all been hurt.
We've all felt that fear andknow that others might have to
come into our world which iswhat I'm kind of going through
now and it become it does becomea scary thing, for instance,
with your mom, caregivers,doctors.
You know these are all peoplethat you really don't, but
(33:40):
you're forced to have them inyour world and trust them.
That's so.
I don't know.
It's just it's really difficultand weird.
It's strange.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
It's scary, and my dad and I talked about that
aspect before of him not beingready to have strangers, if you
will, in his home.
But we are to that point wherewe're going to need help, and so
my mom is getting an in-homeevaluation in just a few days
and that he has talked about.
(34:10):
I think that more so, perhaps,than it being a stranger in the
home.
I think the deeper underlyingthing for him is that it makes
it more real where she is in herjourney and how hard things are
(34:31):
for him too.
So I think it makes it more.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
I think it makes it more real and that, and that is
difficult to deal with you haveto make these decisions and when
it was hospice in the hospital,hospice at home, and even
hearing that with me being theonly one taking care of her, you
know, I mean, it scared me todeath.
And even though it was a harddecision, we chose the hospital
(35:13):
and I'm glad that I did, becauseof the end, how awful it was
and how much assistance weneeded.
And you know, you just, and itis giving up control and
allowing others that you don'teven know to come into the room
and to help you with things thatare way bigger than you.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah, it's hard to trust when you don't have a
relationship with someone.
I think that's really hard forme, and I think that's why I've
had such issues with doctorsover the years is I don't wanna
just be the lunch meat line next, next, next.
I wanna actually build thatrelationship together.
(35:53):
I want you to know me so thatyou can better understand where
I'm coming from and the reasonfor the decisions I want to make
or not.
So I think it's important thatwe build those relationships,
and it makes it hard when youhave to be forced into it.
But that's kind of like what Iwas talking about earlier Some
things you just have to embraceand then you have to trust that
(36:13):
it will work out.
And if it doesn't, then you haveto move on and get the next
person in to help, for example,or do the next best thing and
get the next person in to help,for example, or do the next best
thing.
That's hard.
It is hard to let go of control.
It is hard to just accept whatyou don't want to accept.
It really truly is.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Nothing easy about it .
Well, I think part of whatwe're saying here is that the
problems that we're dealing withare just really big and the
fear is equal to that.
You know, the bigger theproblem, the bigger the fear.
The spirit of fear can cause aspiritual disconnect, and losing
trust is something bigger thanourselves.
But it's also feeling distantfrom God, sometimes, I think, or
(36:58):
questioning or even having aspiritual peace.
And I can remember when I was intreatment and we were to say
you know who's your higher power?
And people would.
I can remember being in thiscircle it was really interesting
people's higher powers andthere were some that I would
(37:19):
never have even thought aboutbefore and some said you know a
rock star, or somebody even saida tree, and I have never
forgotten that because I foundit interesting that they steered
away from the word Godcompletely, completely, and it
(37:43):
made me wonder where they werein their life that brought them
to feeling that, the only thingthat they could feel or trust in
the brokenest time of theirlife.
Because here they arecompletely broken, completely
vulnerable, and they're sayingwho do you look up to for a
higher power that you trust morethan anything else?
And they say a tree for ahigher power that you trust more
(38:03):
than anything else.
And they say a tree.
And it just made me wonder.
You know, I felt really bad forthem, but I didn't know if they
even felt bad for themselves.
I don't even know, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Oh, that is really interesting.
I mean, I can see wanting to belike a tree with strong roots.
You grow, you bear fruit, forexample.
I could see wanting to be likethat.
But for that to be your higherpower is really interesting.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
What I get out of 2 Timothy 1.7 is that the fear
that I'm feeling is not from God, because God didn't do this and
I know people can say that attimes but he didn't do this and
this still doesn't mean it's notthere.
You know, I didn't know what Iwas feeling was fear, like I
(38:51):
said earlier, but it does makesense that that's probably
what's going on, and I mean.
Another thing that the bookpoints out is that perception is
reality and it asks thisquestion have you considered and
I underlined it, have youconsidered that you might be
(39:12):
trapped in a self-made prison?
And because that's kind of howI'm feeling at the moment.
So now I have to figure out youknow why, how and all the
things I can't change what'shappening.
So I have to figure out what Ihave control over.
(39:32):
Right, I have control over how Ihandle things.
I have control over how I allowthis to affect me.
I have control over if I let itshut me down.
I have control over who I allowin and who I do talk to.
I do have control over that,ian, and not to just listen to
(39:55):
my own thoughts, because our ownthoughts sometimes can take us
down the wrong paths and to dothings like read this book.
I don't think it fell into myhands by accident, because I
don't believe in those kinds ofthings so I can get down on my
knees more, pray more.
You know I have control overthose things.
(40:17):
What about you and your mom orany other situations that you
might be in or have been in?
That fits this.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Well, before I dive into that, I want to say I'm in
the middle of reading LisaTurkist's book.
I Want to Trust you but I Don't, and it's really good, and I
think that that should be thenext one that you put on your
list, because it's reallyhelping me kind of untangle some
of these issues you know, and Ithink, for you especially, it
will help you get to maybe theroot cause of why it is hard for
(40:48):
you to trust new people, so Ithink that would be a really
good book for you.
As for me, I feel like that'swhat we've been talking about a
lot through this.
Just with my mom, I've been insituations like this, and I had
to do because the situation Iwas referencing earlier in 2018
(41:11):
was when we had our stillbornbaby, and no, I wouldn't want to
relive that, but I alsowouldn't want to give up what I
learned from that, and that isthat I don't have a whole lot of
control over a lot of things.
I have control over how I actand how I respond, like you were
saying, but it is times likethat that have taught me.
I just need to ask then what doI need to learn from this,
(41:33):
instead of asking the whyquestion.
So, with my mom and otherdifficult situations that I
faced, and one that I'm justkind of in with one of my kiddos
right now and it's not like asuper big deal or anything, but
it is trying to figure out whatis the next best step, what is
really going on with him, and dowe need to get a stranger
(41:57):
essentially, you know, involvesomeone that he could talk to?
And I don't know, I don't knowall of those answers just yet,
but I do know that it at leastis in my mind where we're
thinking about it.
We're trying to figure out thenext best step.
We're trying to like OK, we cancontrol this, but we can't
control that.
How do we?
(42:18):
How do we move forward?
And I think that's probably theoverall feeling of our podcast
episode is you can feel all ofthese things, but you still have
to move forward.
You need respite, you stillhave to move forward and handle
it.
You can't control so manythings, but yet you can control
how you act or react to what ishappening in your life.
(42:40):
And I think maybe just takingthe time to sit and process all
of that is really, you know, andjust working through all of
those layers like an onion.
Okay, if I don't trust you know,if this brought up, if this
triggered me, why did it triggerme?
Okay, now I have all these newpeople.
Why don't I want to trust them?
Oh, it's because at this pointin my life, I did and I got
(43:01):
burned.
Oh, and it happened again atthis point in my life.
Okay, well, you know, tracethose steps back to find out
where it came from.
Remind yourself.
Okay, these are either truethings that happened or these
are just a thought.
And okay, well, I'm older nowand that's not going to happen
again.
I'm older and wiser now and Ican work through all of this.
(43:22):
Something and you know, I knowyou wanted to talk about writing
, and that was one of the otherthings I was going to say is
that can really be so helpfuland therapeutic and also provide
clarity.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Yes, oh my gosh, when I write and I have a completely
different perspective by thetime I get to the end of the
page.
It happens every time.
So you know we're also talkingabout what I said earlier.
Our perceptions are reality,and when it's a lie and you have
(43:57):
to find a way to replace thelie, it becomes a battle in your
mind.
I mean, it's a real thing?
Yeah, it sure is.
You can't change what you can'tconfront, and that is a big one
, because the mind is fightingthings that we can't see.
(44:19):
Fighting things that we can'tsee and things that are tangible
, are easy to fight or walk awayfrom.
But our minds are so powerfuland when we are dealing with
life's hurts and pains, ourbrains are leading us and it's
something that we are.
We're fighting something thatwe can't see.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Gosh, that's so good.
You cannot change what youcannot confront.
I think that really sets intoperspective for me some things
of the past that I wish weredifferent.
But I don't want to confrontthem, not because I'm afraid to,
but because I want to move pastthem and I don't, you know, I
don't want certain people in mylife anymore because when
sometimes I see the true colors,it's like, yeah, I can still be
(45:08):
civil, absolutely, but I'm notgoing to go back to trusting and
wanting to form a closer bondagain.
But I really love that.
That'll give me something elseto think about.
You cannot change what youcannot confront.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
I think that's so powerful That'll give me
something else to think about.
You cannot change what youcannot confront.
I think that's so powerful.
When I had first read that, youknow it really hit me right
where I'm living right nowBecause I think that some of
these things are right.
Part of the problem is becausethey're a hard thing for me to
confront, and so the walls go up.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Yeah, I do it too.
I do it too, I do it too, thereare lies.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
the book said that people have believed and lived
by, you know, and it meant thatthey believed the lie and it
affected their behavior becausethey believed it.
For instance, the world wasflat.
People believed it.
Some people still do, that'strue.
But they wouldn't even go outinto the ocean because they
believed that they would falloff the edge, you know.
Or if you swallow gum or awatermelon, how about if you
(46:17):
swallow a watermelon seed thatyou're going to grow one in your
stomach?
Speaker 1 (46:21):
swallow a watermelon seed that you're going to grow
one in your stomach.
Yes, yes, hey.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
at this point I feel like that might be something we
wish could happen.
Yeah, here's one.
How about if you sit too closeto the TV and you'll go blind?
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Or if you drink coffee too young, it'll stunt
your growth.
My parents would say that Inever heard that one.
But anyway, I mean those areall kinds of you know where we
really believe a lie, justbecause, just because Because we
were told from trusted peopleand that's how we live, yeah, so
(46:57):
we make decisions based on thethings that we know and the
reality and the perception thatwe have about that reality.
So I mean it's kind ofinteresting.
But now you know, let's go backto reality.
Well, I guess the reality as wenow know it, the book asked was
(47:24):
what if you buy into the liethat you were telling yourself?
And then they say in the book,a lie believed as truth will
affect your life, as if it weretrue?
So if we believe a lie that'stelling us you know in our head
that we are no good or we can't,is that doubting God?
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Is that doubting God?
That's a good question.
I think just because of ourhuman nature we do these things.
I don't know if I can say thatwhen I have believed a lie about
myself never maybe I shouldn'tsay never I often I've not,
(48:03):
often not even anything I couldremember had anything to do with
doubting God.
It had everything to do withdoubting myself.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Okay, but if we do doubt ourselves, I guess that's
saying to that we don't trusthim to.
You know, overpower our owndoubts about who we are.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Yeah, I guess that would be.
I just never looked at it thatway.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
I didn't either, not until I saw that In real bold
letters in the book it said youare not who others say you are.
You are who I say you are fromGod.
So I really needed to hear that.
As soon as I read that, I satin it because I'm getting
(48:55):
messages around me that I'm notvery worthy and I am not
appreciated.
You know those are hard lessons, hard messages to hear.
Can I ask you, Tina, whatnegative messages have you taken
(49:16):
away from your childhood thathave actually maybe infiltrated
your life now and might replayin your head?
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Well, I wanted to say some of the things that you
were just talking about are it'sjust, it's powerful, and I can.
I wanted to talk about how myvery first restorative yoga
class I took after we had ourstillborn son, several weeks,
possibly even months, after thathad happened, and why I took
the class was I really needed toeither get control of my
(49:44):
thoughts or shut my brain off?
And I thought that would be agood way to try to start and see
, well, could I do it?
Could I relax enough that Icould actually think about just
being in the moment in yogaclass?
And the truth is it took me along time, but I absolutely can,
and restorative yoga has becomea part of my regular routine
and self-care for years now.
But I say that because I willnever forget my very first
(50:08):
restorative yoga class and therewas a song on from.
I can't think if it's India,irie or I can't think of the
artist right now but it said youare not the choices other
people made.
Is that how the lyric goes?
(50:29):
Something like that.
In other words, it freed mefrom it right there and I sobbed
In my very first yoga class.
I was lying there sobbingbecause it instantly freed me of
something I guess I had beencarrying regarding my brother,
(50:49):
to be honest.
And so, right then, and there,you are not the things you know
your family did, you are not thethings your family did, and you
know, don't listen to thevoices in your head, and things
like that and I thought, oh mygosh, I was carrying because he
did it.
That meant I did it and thatwhen people looked at him one
way, they looked at me that waytoo.
(51:10):
And that's it freed me, rightthen and there, to not feel that
way and to release that,because that's not the truth.
His actions have nothing to dowith me and that's not who I am.
You know, go ahead, becausewhoever he is is him, but I am
(51:31):
not that way.
And it really did.
It freed me.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
That's really powerful and I think I just
needed to hear that just nowbecause you know I have carried
with me since my mom did whatshe did letting my sister go.
She put her back into thesystem after my dad died and we
really never saw her again untilI was an adult, and I made that
(51:57):
happen.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
India Irie, I Am Light.
In case anyone wants to lookthat song up, it was India, irie
.
It's called I Am Light and it'sbeautiful and you should
absolutely listen to it.
I will.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
Those lyrics come from.
But I just want to say you knowthat that's really powerful to
me because when I went throughthose few things, really rough
times as a kid, and then youtake it to your adulthood and
you're still owning it, like youjust talked about, you know
you're still owning it eventhough it wasn't yours to own.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And to answer the question infinality that you had asked me
what negative messages did Itake away from my childhood that
I might replay in my head?
I don't know that I've evertalked about this before on the
(53:06):
podcast, but there is someonewho really hurt me deeply from a
young age until my mid-20s whenI feel like God was saying okay
, you can handle this.
Now You're going to have todeal with something hard.
And I told this person I didn'tunderstand his decisions when I
was younger to give me up.
Okay, if you will.
So I'm talking about mybiological dad and our
(53:27):
relationship is repaired as bestas it will be at this point and
I don't want him to listen tothis and be discouraged.
I mean, I would just say thatfor the longest time I just
replayed over and over and overin my head when he told me he
(53:47):
laughed at me when I asked himthat question and said maybe if
you were younger asking me this,I would actually care, but you
need to just be over it and Ithought, wow, I thought that was
not at all the answer that Iwas hoping for.
I was hoping for a little bitof closure, to just ask it like
(54:09):
where were you at at that timeto make that decision and you
know, to let me be adopted,which ended up in my favor.
It wasn't that I was upsetabout it, I just had the
question of why, right?
Why did you?
do that Right, and I never didget the answer.
That was the answer I got, butthat was something that played
(54:31):
around in my head that was like,oh well, you're not good enough
.
Oh well, how stupid that you'rethis old and that you cared
about this and you know.
So that kind of thing thatmessed with me for a while.
But again, I know when to andwhere to go and get the help and
counseling that I need to workthrough I'm sorry, for I have to
accept an apology I'll neverget and I'm really proud of me
(55:06):
for being able to do that.
So those were some of thethings.
You know, I often fight thelonely here and there.
I fight that I'm not goodenough.
I fight the perfectionism,which isn't something we talked
about in this, but it'ssomething that goes around in my
(55:26):
head quite a bit.
So I think we all havesomething we really do and I
think really truly, I like toalways go back to some sort of
kindness when we talk in ourpodcasts and I think if we could
just be extra kind to thepeople around us, it would make
a world of difference, even ifthat just means smiling or
holding a door or saying hi or akind gesture.
(55:47):
You just don't know what peopleare going through.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
You know, I thought about the answer to that
question but all I could come upwith was negative.
I came up with, you know,you're no good, not smart, not
worthy, never good enough tomake it, and even though I have,
which is interesting, and thosetypes of words you know how
(56:14):
visual both of us are told thisstory in this book that I found
really interesting because hetricked his friend during a game
and they were adults when thishappened that you know they were
playing this game and the guywas hiding in the closet and he
went up and he pretended helocked it and he told his friend
(56:37):
that he locked the closet.
Well, what ended up happeningis his friend never tried to
even open it because he believedthe lie.
And how powerful is that?
He said living your life by.
Speaker 1 (56:52):
It's funny.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cutyou off, but that is so
interesting because I took awaya positive from that.
I didn't think of believing thelie.
I thought how trustworthy thatrelationship was Interesting.
That was my very first thoughtwas how trusting.
Speaker 2 (57:14):
Well, he says.
You know, living your life by alie is like believing the door
is locked when it isn't.
Speaker 1 (57:25):
So good it's, so good .
I feel like we've left so muchmeat to chew on in this podcast,
and I hope that that's going toresonate with you too.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm talking about.
When I was looking over thispodcast, I really started in a
different spot.
But you know and I'm glad thatwe have as many end of it an
hour later.
I feel like I've grown, I feellike I've gotten something out
(58:07):
of it.
Speaker 1 (58:08):
Yeah, I do too, and that's always our hope and goal.
So feel free to reach out toeither or both of us and let us
know what our podcast had meantto you.
We'd love to hear from you,anne.
If you want to drop our emailaddress, that'd be great, you
can reach us atrealtalkwithtinaandannecom.
Speaker 2 (58:27):
You can fill out the form that pops up and it will
immediately notify us with youremail and then we can put you in
our contact information for allof our newsletters and mailings
and things like that.
Speaker 1 (58:42):
You can find us on Facebook too.
Information for all of ournewsletters and mailings and
things like that you can find uson Facebook too.
So if you go to Real Talk, Tinaand Anne, you will find us
there.
You'll see our picture that yousee in the background right
here.
So it'll help you identify that.
Yes, you have reached the rightpage.
Speaker 2 (58:55):
Yes, Well, thank you for joining us this week and, as
usual, there's purpose in thepain and there's hope in the
journey, and we are doing thisone step at a time with you,
because this is a journey andwe're not doing it alone, we're
not doing it in isolation andwe're trying to all grow
together because there's areason why that we're supposed
(59:19):
to be in relationship.
Absolutely, we're hardwired forit.
I think we talked a to be inrelationship.
Absolutely, we're hardwired forit.
I think we talked a lot aboutthat on here today and being
open to new things and growthand not putting up walls and
allowing them to come down alittle bit when we need to.
So let's try to break thosewalls together.
So, thank you for joining usthis week and, as usual, we will
(59:42):
see you next time.
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Tina.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I am Anne.
I have a question for you, tina, and for everybody.
Do you like where your thoughtsare taking you?
Solomon in the Bible said as hethinks in his heart, so he is.
You have to change your mind,to change, and you know I have
(00:34):
to be honest right here.
Old thoughts have come into myhead and it is not a good place
to live right now.
And it is not a good place tolive right now.
I'm not loving it.
I wish I could say that I'm justnot going to do this, but I
honestly think that it has to dowith how strong a person is at
(00:55):
the time or how weak you feel,because I'm not feeling that
strong right now.
I'm still getting up and moving.
You know that, fake it till youmake it.
But I'm having this where myold problems are my now problems
, and my head is having a hardtime getting past this.
I'm telling myself don't dothis, don't allow hard times to
(01:19):
lie to you about who you are orthat you can't move forward.
What do you do when you're in abad situation that can't be
changed?
You can't do anything about it.
For instance, tina, you knowyour mom is in a really tough
spot and she's going through areally hard time and that is a
(01:40):
chronic situation.
And what do you do when you'rein that kind of a situation and
you can't do anything about it?
It's a chronic state and youhave to constantly talk to
yourself about how you are goingto move forward in this.
Another instance is and I wantto talk about this, but I want
(02:04):
to talk about it very carefullyyou know, I had a situation that
drained me to my core back inthe day and I didn't know what
to do.
Well, it was a different time,but different.
But not all things arechangeable, you know, and we can
just leave in some situations,but we have to figure out how to
(02:28):
live in certain things andwithout believing the lies that
might infiltrate our thoughtsalong with it.
I'm reading this book Winningthe War in your Mind by Craig
Groeschel maybe his name and oneof the first things I see which
I swear this wasn't by mistakeor, you know, it's kind of like
a God thing I can let God'sthoughts become mine.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
That was a lot to digest and I think it was so
powerful.
And the book by Craig Groeschel, I feel like, is something I
should be reading too.
I read something this week,ironically, that made me ponder
the very things that you'retalking about.
This is from Adam Grant and itsaid a sign of wisdom is
choosing not to believeeverything you think.
(03:15):
A mark of emotionalintelligence is choosing not to
internalize everything you feel.
Thoughts and emotions arepossibilities to ponder, not
facts to accept.
We always have to invite themin, but we do decide whether
they deserve to stay.
Amen, sister, friend, and Ithought that was so powerful.
(03:38):
It's had me kind of thinkingall week and I feel like
whatever issue you're talkingabout has triggered your past,
and that's okay.
I don't like it for you, butthat's okay.
And I think that you're right.
You just have to walk with it.
And in reference to my mom,that's sort of how I feel.
In a few ways, I am thankfulfor how I've been changed
(04:02):
internally, meaning I reallyhave the patience of a saint,
and I never thought I would saythat I'm so proud of how I treat
my mom and how I love herunconditionally, even when it's
hard.
So seeing that about me andseeing how it has impacted our
(04:23):
children, particularly ouryoungest son, has been a
beautiful, heartbreakinglybeautiful thing to see.
I wish he knew her the way Iknew her, but he loves her just
as she is.
That's powerful.
There are times where you'rejust going to have to embrace
(04:48):
where you are, whether you likeit or not, and just have to keep
moving, because moving ismotion.
Motion keeps us going and itwill eventually take us to where
we want to be.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, I mean, our lives move in the direction of
our thoughts, and that's just afact move in the direction of
our thoughts and that's just afact.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
And it's okay that you have those thoughts where
you need to pause and processthem to be able to keep moving
forward.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, I actually I had some meetings with some
people in the last couple weeksthat I don't and I'll talk more
about this later in the podcastbut I really don't like to bring
people outside of my circleinto my life.
I don't like to, and unless Ichoose them and I trust them,
(05:35):
you know, and in both situations, when we were talking about
what's going on, talking aboutwhat's going on, they said wow,
this has got to be so triggeringfor you, how are you?
(05:57):
And that instantly shuts medown.
When somebody asks me thatquestion, you know, like Tina,
if you would say, oh my gosh,ann, that's so horrible, how are
you?
I'd be fine with that questionbecause it's you.
But with somebody that I don'treally know, it brings up this
oh, I'm fine them.
(06:28):
Honestly, I am for counseling.
I don't want this to appear asif I'm not for people on the
outside coming in and helping,but I have to be honest, I have
a wall with certain people andit just instantly goes up when
they say, well, and how are you?
And it's just like, oh my gosh,well, and how are you, you know
(06:48):
, and it's just like, oh my gosh, I'm good, and that's the only
thing that you're gonna get.
So it's being able to let otherpeople and it does.
It's a trigger.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
I can tell I'm sorry, I wish I, I wish it wasn't.
But hopefully you can moveforward and be able to put the
wall down a little bit so maybeinstead of a door it becomes a
window, and then maybe you canopen the window a little bit so
that you can eventually be ableto communicate and see that as
just a friendly.
You know, that person maybedoesn't need to know all the
(07:17):
things about you, but maybe youcould say boy, you know, I'm
okay, just, you know, strugglinga little bit right now with A,
B or C, or I'm okay, I'm juststruggling, or I'm just in a
season of hard, and then seewhat happens from there.
But I mean at the end of theday because I do this too, if I
don't feel comfortable with you,you're not going to get
(07:38):
anything out of me.
See, it's true, but I think Imean in a way I would say I
think we need to listen to thattoo.
There are different levels offriendship and trust with
different people.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
There just are, and that's why you have the inner
circle and then the next circleand then the next circle.
Sure, yeah, I mean, when I wasin college we had that target.
You know the little circle andthen each one and what they were
, and you know letting peopleinto your inner circle and how
important that is and boundariesand everything.
(08:12):
So, yeah, I mean, you know, inAA it was a thing called
stinking thinking and that'swhat I'm, and when it gets a
hold of your brain it's not agood thing.
And normally in AA or intreatment that's when you call a
sponsor.
You know it's like, okay, I'vegot some stinking thinking going
on here, I'm going to call, ormy friend and you know I have
(08:37):
lots of friends and sometimes itjust gets to the point where in
a situation like right nowthat's going on in my life, it's
so much.
It's like you've been stabbed,like you're breathless, laying
on the floor and you don't haveanybody that you really feel
like you want to talk to andreally the only one that you
(08:59):
trust is God.
In my case, the only one is God.
In the book Winning the War inyour Mind, he quoted from 2
Timothy 1.7, exactly what aspirit of fear is, because I'm
(09:23):
not myself and I really didn'tthink about what that this could
actually be a fear in me that'shappening.
So when I looked it up, thefirst thing that came up was
(09:48):
constant anxiety or worry,feeling overwhelmed by what-ifs
and worst-case scenarios, atendency to anticipate danger
even when it isn't present.
And I can say that I probablyam there right now.
My thoughts are not in a goodplace.
Like I said earlier, you and Ihave talked about how our nights
can be, you know, sometimes inthe middle of the night, and
that's kind of where I'm at,even during the day.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I hate that.
I'm so sorry.
I know, though, you'll be ableto work through it, and I can
relate to this and I know somany people can too of that
feeling of being consumed byanxiety, the what ifs.
It's like your mind is playingout a thousand worst case
scenarios all at once, and then,when night hits, it feels like
everything amplifies.
(10:28):
Right, I don't understand whyit does that, but it does.
But here's something I'velearned Fear thrives in the dark
, and when we can start to bringlight to those thoughts and to
just name them for what they arejust thoughts they can lose
their power over us.
I think you know, I will say,in the journey of walking
(10:51):
alongside my mom with her earlyonset Alzheimer's, it has opened
up Pandora's box for me.
I, you know, I take anxietymedication.
I've taken it for almost twoyears now because of how deeply
this has just opened up thespirit of fear, if you will.
And then other, just sadness,extreme sadness.
(11:13):
I mean my mother's not even 65and we're in the late stage of
it.
Things you know when you're alittle girl.
You just assume, and as, evenas you grow up, and even as of
just a few years ago, I wouldjust assume that I would have my
parents until they're 80, andthat's not going to be the case
for my mom.
And so I feel sometimes that Iam alone, not in the physical
(11:39):
sense, like, yes, I have afamily, a husband, kids and my
mom and dad, if you will, andfriends, of course, but
sometimes I still feel alone inthat nobody understands what I'm
going through.
And it's interesting becausewhen someone dies, you typically
(12:00):
have that support around you.
It's usually for a period oftime and then people's lives go
back to normal.
But what about those of uswho've been caregiving for five
years, any amount of time, andyou don't have, per se, that
support?
Now, that's not to say I don'twant any friends listening, who
I have that ask about my mom orwho send a card every couple of
(12:23):
months.
That's what I mean, that iswhat I need, and I'm just saying
in general.
If you don't have the supportsystem, at times it can really
feel like you are so alone, andI felt that.
And then the thoughts start togo down that rabbit hole, kind
(12:44):
of like what you were talkingabout, and it's really hard to
get a grip on them because Ifeel like they go down so fast.
They're spiraling, you spiral,it's spiraling so fast.
And that's why, if we can bringto light, bring light to those
thoughts, just name them forwhat they are.
Okay, they're thoughts.
And remember what I'd saidearlier just because you feel
(13:04):
something doesn't mean you haveto keep it inside of you,
doesn't mean it's um, it's realor it's not.
Do you know what I mean?
You, you get to decide, and soI I think that maybe if we could
just say, okay, these are just,this is just a thought, and
it's going to pass, then it'lllose the power over us yeah, I
mean, I I really do do believethat our thoughts are just some
(13:29):
of the most strongest.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
They are the strongest things and they are
really what I said earlier.
They're just in control andthey can create what is one of
the next ones, a paralysis or aninaction, and you know, I have
felt this at times.
But this is when action andstrength just has to take over
(13:55):
and no matter what, like yousaid, I mean it is a keep moving
.
We've talked about this beforeon the podcast, but I can
literally feel myself tellingmyself one more step, one more
step.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Absolutely.
Oh, I've been there.
I've been there.
When I was on my hikingadventure on the Kalalau Trail,
this is what I felt I wasparalyzed by my fear of falling
off the side of the cliffbecause our day to hike in was
during a tropical storm and so Ifelt I literally froze on the
side of a cliff until my brainlike shifted into gear.
(14:35):
It was like get out of neutral,you have to keep going so that
you do not fall off of here.
It was like Tina, keep goingnow.
I mean, I was literally thatintense with myself and I
experienced that too when my momwas first diagnosed Completely
froze me, it paralyzed me, itconsumed me, and then I had to
(15:00):
pick myself back up and say youhave to start doing something so
that you don't stay in thishard, messy place for too long.
I believe the longer you stay,the harder it is to get out.
You have to feel it, yes, butyou can't stay there too long.
It gets harder and harder toget out.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
And that's where it comes down to.
What I brought up earlier isthat you know what do you do
when you're living in it.
You know it's not a situationwhere it's in your mind only, it
is a.
You are living in thissituation and you can't get out
of it.
There's, I mean, the only timethat you can get out of it is
(15:43):
when you create your own respite.
You know, maybe it's prayer orjust getting away for short
periods of time, going inanother room or just doing
whatever you need to just tofeel a little, maybe a bath.
You know those are the types ofsituations where you really can
only get out of what'sconsuming you, and so it's more
(16:08):
than just your mind.
You know, as soon as you leavethe bath, as soon as you leave
whatever, whatever it is, you'rewalking right back into what's
creating the stress.
So you know it's there's notmuch of a respite time and it't
give you and your body your mindisn't really made for that to
(16:32):
live in a constant, chronicstate of fear.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
You're absolutely right.
I don't know that there's oneright answer for how to deal
with that.
I think you listen to your body, you give it the respite you
can, what it needs when you can,and just know that and trust
you are going to be equipped tohandle it.
And I also think, along the way, be open to learn something
through it or from it, because Ithink there's always, at least
(17:08):
I really, truly believe.
I try to always look at thelesson.
I tend to ask why left and whatdo I need to learn?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
more.
I have this thing where.
And the lady yesterday in themeeting first time meeting and
she's saying you know how isthis affecting you?
I told her the truth in that Ikind of bragged about myself a
little bit, in that I feelsometimes like I'm a superwoman.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
That's because you are, I think that, often about
you.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Because I have this really cool thing about me that
I can just keep moving and itdoesn't really I don't know like
I can start every single daybrand new.
It's a clean slate.
(18:25):
Just start over, move on andsomething might take me back for
a little while, but then I canjust wash it off and continue on
and the resilience and thestrength in me is so strong.
I've had some really bigconversations with God lately
some of those why?
Questions and I guess I have toalso realize that he's given me
strength like no other for meto be able to do it.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
And he knew that I could do this.
It's like the.
I think it's like a tree You'rein the pruning season, but what
happens after you get pruned?
You bloom.
So you're getting trimmed rightnow, you're getting tested
right now, and I think that thisis a big period of growth for
you personally.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
That's going to happen from this, and lots of
times these kinds of things dohappen when there is a lot of
success going on around and goodthings going on around at the
same time.
So it's not allowing thosethings, because there is a lot
of really great things going onin my life, so it's allowing
those really hard times not tostop me from being able to grow
(19:23):
and be happy and joyful aboutthose really great things.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
And at the same time, be okay and not beat yourself
up that there are these greatthings, but there's also a hard
thing too, and they both have tolive together.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Well, we kind of talked about that in our last
episode that we taped together,you know.
And another one that theytalked about for fear is
self-doubt, believing you're notgood enough, not smart enough,
not strong enough, and constantsecond-guessing ourselves and
having a lack of confidence.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Absolutely.
But here is the truthSelf-doubt is just fear in
disguise, and fear only haspower when we believe it.
So I would say you are enough.
To anyone listening.
You are capable, and every timeyou show up, even when you're
doubting yourself, you areproving that inner critic wrong.
Confidence isn't about neversecond-guessing, it is about
(20:24):
pushing forward anyway, and Ithink that we all have what it
takes, even if we can't see ityet.
But we have to keep movingforward.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Another one is fear of judgment or rejection.
Is another one Holding backyour true self out of fear
either of what others mightthink or avoiding vulnerable
situations or meaningfulconnections, and I just kind of
explained how I kind of do that.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
I can really relate to this one too.
The fear of judgment orrejection, I think, is so deeply
ingrained in so many of us thatit does hold us back a lot of
times from showing up as ourtrue selves.
And I know how it feels to hideparts of yourself or to shrink
back because you're worriedabout what others might think.
(21:15):
But here's the thingVulnerability is actually where
we find real connection.
So the more we allow ourselvesto be open and authentic, the
more I think we can create spacefor others to do the same.
I'm not saying it's easy, I'msaying it's something that I
work often at, and I'm gettingmore confident with little by
little, and I think it comeswith age too, to be honest.
(21:37):
But I do think it's possible.
We can choose courage over fear.
So trusting the right peoplewill see us for who we really
are.
It's kind of about that circle.
You know that being vulnerableisn't a weakness, it's a
strength.
Love yourself and others willtoo.
At least the right people will.
(21:58):
There's only one you.
There's no one you-er than you,isn't that, dr Hoots?
And I just I love that.
So if I ever hear my kids say,oh, I want to be you know, I
want to be LeBron James.
I think that's great, to aspireto be like him in many ways the
way he takes care of himself,the way he takes care of his
(22:19):
family, the way he acts as aperson.
He's never been in the news foranything awful, so, yes, but
you are who you are.
Let's just say your name is Joe, you are Joe, be Joe.
Yes, you can be like LeBronJames, but there's only one you,
so no one you are than you, andI hate to see when anybody
(22:41):
holds someone back or gets heldback.
When anybody holds someone backor gets held back, I like to
think that I'm a safe place anda place that's warm for anyone
to just be who they are.
We don't have to agree, but Ican still love without
understanding, and I think ifmore people understood that, the
world would be such a happier,more peaceful place.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, I mean, there's a reason that I went into
counseling for a degree I have amaster's in it and I think that
one of the reasons why I wentthat direction was because I
have this where people want tocome talk to me, you know, and I
have always had this heart forwanting to help people.
(23:23):
I've always had this heart forwanting to help people and I
have that openness towards otherpeople, I mean in a lack of
judgment.
You know, I genuinely feel forthe person and where they are
and want to help them whereverthey are, and but I have a real
(23:43):
problem with reversing that andbeing the one on the other end,
and you know it's I keep peopleat an arm's length and that's
just where I feel comfortable.
And I know too, I'm autistic,and so that absolutely can have
something to do with it.
That absolutely can havesomething to do with it.
(24:05):
Like I said earlier, Tina, yousaid about yourself, it's true,
because you would be somebodythat I would go to and I
wouldn't even hesitate to callyou if I felt like I needed to
talk to somebody, or.
But you know, I really don'tlike this about myself and I
find that interesting that Idon't like it about myself.
(24:26):
Why do I do it then?
You know, that's reallyinteresting to me, I find others
.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I think this is the area where you will probably be
growing.
Maybe or it is okay to keepsome people you need to keep at
arm's length.
Maybe it's about reevaluatingwho is someone new that you
could let in because they mightbecome an important part of your
life and help you through thisnext chapter.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
This might.
This is a wall.
It is a wall for me to talk topeople about my I don't even
want to call them problems mysituations and to let somebody
in.
I really in some ways envypeople that can just sit across
(25:28):
from somebody in a 50-minutehour, you know, for counseling
and just say you know, this iswhere I'm at.
I don't mind being vulnerable,like I said, I don't mind being
vulnerable in writing.
That's what I do.
I'll write or talk to God outloud, I'll walk around the house
talking to him for an hour, youknow, which, by the way, really
does help me.
It honestly does so.
(25:48):
But to sit across from somebodyelse that I don't really know
that well it's.
I think maybe it's somethingthat I need to work through
because you know it's reallyfunny.
It's like I had a really hardtime with adults, authority
people, you know, like that as akid.
Okay, school in general.
(26:09):
Then I had my older two and Ihad to keep getting called to
the principal's office againkind of funny and deal with that
.
So second round here I am againdealing with all the schools
and everything.
Now I adopted my grandkids, whoyou know I don't even like to
say that because they're my kids.
But I'm in my third round ofchildhood, you know, raising
(26:33):
kids.
And now here I am again,constantly in the school system,
having to sit across fromauthority figures, from people
that are making decisions aboutmy kids, and I just find it so
funny that the thing that Ididn't like the most as a kid
(26:54):
has revisited me more and moreall the way through my adulthood
, like I'm talking about withthis counseling thing.
And now here I am.
It is really pushing me outsideof my comfort zone.
So I guess that this is whatI'm supposed to be working on.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah, I would say this is where you're supposed to
be growing, but I don't thinkthat it is easy and I would
imagine that perhaps somethingyou know from your past is
obviously stirred up and maybeyou feel judged it's legit.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
It is just trust I don't trust.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I'm sure it's because people have broken your trust
over the years and so that wallhas been built so high and
that's been your safeguard forso much of your life.
It is hard to start letting itdown, but I think that this is a
season where you're going tolearn how to do that, at least
in some capacity.
(27:54):
It sounds like Well topiggyback off of that in 2018,
through a sad experience, Ilearned something so important
and it became really invaluableto me.
Sometimes truth strength comesfrom letting go, so trusting
that not everything needs to becontrolled and it's okay to
surrender to the flow of life.
(28:14):
I think it can be about findingpeace in what we can control
our mindset and our actions andthen just releasing the rest,
because I learned that year,there's so much we actually do
not have control over, and whenyou let go of control, it really
does make you feel more free.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah, it really does, and it's probably control is so
being able to let go of that isprobably, I think, one of the
hardest things that we do Trustand control, letting go.
Right, I would agree with thatother one that they talk about
(28:57):
is isolation, and I'm not goodin isolation.
That brings up fear in me.
That's another one.
Well, for one thing, you know,my life is so full of people I
really can't get away frompeople and I don't have a choice
about that.
But on the other side of it, Ido like my time alone, but in
(29:20):
short periods of time.
But in general in living Idon't like being alone and I
thrive around others, and beingalone for too long can create
more of a fear.
I mean, it's okay to be aloneat times because, like I said,
we all need that.
I think it's healthy for us tobe alone and that's my time,
(29:43):
that I can kind of process andwork through things, talk to God
, kind of be quiet for a while.
But yeah, no, I don't like theisolation thing.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah, I think there's a difference between quiet time
and then isolation.
You know, quiet time briefperiod of time, isolation, more
lengthy Some of us really do, Iwould say the majority of us
come alive around others.
We're all hardwired forconnection, and extended
isolation it does make you feelheavy and even a little scary
(30:14):
because your thoughts can reallystart to take over.
I had a conversation just acouple days ago with a neighbor
friend who was talking aboutthat very thing.
Both of the kids were gone forthe weekend.
Her husband was too.
She said, boy, that lonelinessor isolation, she said her mind
started to get to a rough placeand she had to pull herself back
up pretty quick.
(30:35):
And that's what I mean.
I think that alone time can behealthy, but too much of it does
make your mind wander into somehard places and it's important
to know what fills you back up.
And for you it sounds likeconnection is a big part of that
and it's really beautiful thatyou have such self-awareness.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
You know I was.
I don't know if you know thisabout me, but I was born well,
not born this way.
But you know, as an infant,shortly after birth, I was
diagnosed failure to thrive.
I was a failure to thrive babyand when you are a failure to
thrive baby it is oftentimes dueto not being nurtured, loved on
(31:21):
and so that isolation feeling.
And actually what's interestingis when you take somebody that
was a failure to thrive as ababy and then you get in
isolated times, it is that samekind of a feeling.
(31:41):
It brings up that failure tothrive kind of a feeling and
it's almost like the life isbeing sucked out of you.
So it's kind of interestingthat feeling, and it's a feeling
that I know, even though youknow it's kind of like a body
memory, yeah, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Well, you know, I know that you have talked about
feeling like you can't havesomeone to turn to or feel, you
know, alone isolation, as we'retalking about, and you know,
I've felt that way too, andnobody wants to feel or be
lonely, like the weight is allon your shoulders.
You have to do it all alone.
(32:20):
The truth is, we're not meantto go through life alone or do
hard things by ourselves.
So maybe if even just openingup to one safe person can make a
difference, I think that's soimportant.
And just to know you're not aburden, I'm talking to you, I'm
talking to me, I'm talking toall of our listeners.
You're not a burden.
(32:40):
You're human and you're allowedto lean on others.
For me, it is a real honor towalk alongside my friends and
family during the good andduring the hard times.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, no, I really believe that, because I prefer
being on that side and I enjoybeing with somebody, not that
they're hurting, of course, butbeing a person that they trust,
because I know how hard it is totrust, to be that person who
doesn't trust.
And when somebody trusts youwith their hardest times, then
(33:17):
you know that's really an honor.
You know we've all been hurt,We've all felt that fear and
know that that's really an honor.
You know we've all been hurt.
We've all felt that fear andknow that others might have to
come into our world which iswhat I'm kind of going through
now and it become it does becomea scary thing, for instance,
with your mom, caregivers,doctors.
You know these are all peoplethat you really don't, but
(33:40):
you're forced to have them inyour world and trust them.
That's so.
I don't know.
It's just it's really difficultand weird.
It's strange.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
It's scary, and my dad and I talked about that
aspect before of him not beingready to have strangers, if you
will, in his home.
But we are to that point wherewe're going to need help, and so
my mom is getting an in-homeevaluation in just a few days
and that he has talked about.
(34:10):
I think that more so, perhaps,than it being a stranger in the
home.
I think the deeper underlyingthing for him is that it makes
it more real where she is in herjourney and how hard things are
(34:31):
for him too.
So I think it makes it more.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
I think it makes it more real and that, and that is
difficult to deal with you haveto make these decisions and when
it was hospice in the hospital,hospice at home, and even
hearing that with me being theonly one taking care of her, you
know, I mean, it scared me todeath.
And even though it was a harddecision, we chose the hospital
(35:13):
and I'm glad that I did, becauseof the end, how awful it was
and how much assistance weneeded.
And you know, you just, and itis giving up control and
allowing others that you don'teven know to come into the room
and to help you with things thatare way bigger than you.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah, it's hard to trust when you don't have a
relationship with someone.
I think that's really hard forme, and I think that's why I've
had such issues with doctorsover the years is I don't wanna
just be the lunch meat line next, next, next.
I wanna actually build thatrelationship together.
(35:53):
I want you to know me so thatyou can better understand where
I'm coming from and the reasonfor the decisions I want to make
or not.
So I think it's important thatwe build those relationships,
and it makes it hard when youhave to be forced into it.
But that's kind of like what Iwas talking about earlier Some
things you just have to embraceand then you have to trust that
(36:13):
it will work out.
And if it doesn't, then you haveto move on and get the next
person in to help, for example,or do the next best thing and
get the next person in to help,for example, or do the next best
thing.
That's hard.
It is hard to let go of control.
It is hard to just accept whatyou don't want to accept.
It really truly is.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Nothing easy about it .
Well, I think part of whatwe're saying here is that the
problems that we're dealing withare just really big and the
fear is equal to that.
You know, the bigger theproblem, the bigger the fear.
The spirit of fear can cause aspiritual disconnect, and losing
trust is something bigger thanourselves.
But it's also feeling distantfrom God, sometimes, I think, or
(36:58):
questioning or even having aspiritual peace.
And I can remember when I was intreatment and we were to say
you know who's your higher power?
And people would.
I can remember being in thiscircle it was really interesting
people's higher powers andthere were some that I would
(37:19):
never have even thought aboutbefore and some said you know a
rock star, or somebody even saida tree, and I have never
forgotten that because I foundit interesting that they steered
away from the word Godcompletely, completely, and it
(37:43):
made me wonder where they werein their life that brought them
to feeling that, the only thingthat they could feel or trust in
the brokenest time of theirlife.
Because here they arecompletely broken, completely
vulnerable, and they're sayingwho do you look up to for a
higher power that you trust morethan anything else?
And they say a tree for ahigher power that you trust more
(38:03):
than anything else.
And they say a tree.
And it just made me wonder.
You know, I felt really bad forthem, but I didn't know if they
even felt bad for themselves.
I don't even know, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Oh, that is really interesting.
I mean, I can see wanting to belike a tree with strong roots.
You grow, you bear fruit, forexample.
I could see wanting to be likethat.
But for that to be your higherpower is really interesting.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
What I get out of 2 Timothy 1.7 is that the fear
that I'm feeling is not from God, because God didn't do this and
I know people can say that attimes but he didn't do this and
this still doesn't mean it's notthere.
You know, I didn't know what Iwas feeling was fear, like I
(38:51):
said earlier, but it does makesense that that's probably
what's going on, and I mean.
Another thing that the bookpoints out is that perception is
reality and it asks thisquestion have you considered and
I underlined it, have youconsidered that you might be
(39:12):
trapped in a self-made prison?
And because that's kind of howI'm feeling at the moment.
So now I have to figure out youknow why, how and all the
things I can't change what'shappening.
So I have to figure out what Ihave control over.
(39:32):
Right, I have control over how Ihandle things.
I have control over how I allowthis to affect me.
I have control over if I let itshut me down.
I have control over who I allowin and who I do talk to.
I do have control over that,ian, and not to just listen to
(39:55):
my own thoughts, because our ownthoughts sometimes can take us
down the wrong paths and to dothings like read this book.
I don't think it fell into myhands by accident, because I
don't believe in those kinds ofthings so I can get down on my
knees more, pray more.
You know I have control overthose things.
(40:17):
What about you and your mom orany other situations that you
might be in or have been in?
That fits this.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Well, before I dive into that, I want to say I'm in
the middle of reading LisaTurkist's book.
I Want to Trust you but I Don't, and it's really good, and I
think that that should be thenext one that you put on your
list, because it's reallyhelping me kind of untangle some
of these issues you know, and Ithink, for you especially, it
will help you get to maybe theroot cause of why it is hard for
(40:48):
you to trust new people, so Ithink that would be a really
good book for you.
As for me, I feel like that'swhat we've been talking about a
lot through this.
Just with my mom, I've been insituations like this, and I had
to do because the situation Iwas referencing earlier in 2018
(41:11):
was when we had our stillbornbaby, and no, I wouldn't want to
relive that, but I alsowouldn't want to give up what I
learned from that, and that isthat I don't have a whole lot of
control over a lot of things.
I have control over how I actand how I respond, like you were
saying, but it is times likethat that have taught me.
I just need to ask then what doI need to learn from this,
(41:33):
instead of asking the whyquestion.
So, with my mom and otherdifficult situations that I
faced, and one that I'm justkind of in with one of my kiddos
right now and it's not like asuper big deal or anything, but
it is trying to figure out whatis the next best step, what is
really going on with him, and dowe need to get a stranger
(41:57):
essentially, you know, involvesomeone that he could talk to?
And I don't know, I don't knowall of those answers just yet,
but I do know that it at leastis in my mind where we're
thinking about it.
We're trying to figure out thenext best step.
We're trying to like OK, we cancontrol this, but we can't
control that.
How do we?
(42:18):
How do we move forward?
And I think that's probably theoverall feeling of our podcast
episode is you can feel all ofthese things, but you still have
to move forward.
You need respite, you stillhave to move forward and handle
it.
You can't control so manythings, but yet you can control
how you act or react to what ishappening in your life.
(42:40):
And I think maybe just takingthe time to sit and process all
of that is really, you know, andjust working through all of
those layers like an onion.
Okay, if I don't trust you know,if this brought up, if this
triggered me, why did it triggerme?
Okay, now I have all these newpeople.
Why don't I want to trust them?
Oh, it's because at this pointin my life, I did and I got
(43:01):
burned.
Oh, and it happened again atthis point in my life.
Okay, well, you know, tracethose steps back to find out
where it came from.
Remind yourself.
Okay, these are either truethings that happened or these
are just a thought.
And okay, well, I'm older nowand that's not going to happen
again.
I'm older and wiser now and Ican work through all of this.
(43:22):
Something and you know, I knowyou wanted to talk about writing
, and that was one of the otherthings I was going to say is
that can really be so helpfuland therapeutic and also provide
clarity.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Yes, oh my gosh, when I write and I have a completely
different perspective by thetime I get to the end of the
page.
It happens every time.
So you know we're also talkingabout what I said earlier.
Our perceptions are reality,and when it's a lie and you have
(43:57):
to find a way to replace thelie, it becomes a battle in your
mind.
I mean, it's a real thing?
Yeah, it sure is.
You can't change what you can'tconfront, and that is a big one
, because the mind is fightingthings that we can't see.
(44:19):
Fighting things that we can'tsee and things that are tangible
, are easy to fight or walk awayfrom.
But our minds are so powerfuland when we are dealing with
life's hurts and pains, ourbrains are leading us and it's
something that we are.
We're fighting something thatwe can't see.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Gosh, that's so good.
You cannot change what youcannot confront.
I think that really sets intoperspective for me some things
of the past that I wish weredifferent.
But I don't want to confrontthem, not because I'm afraid to,
but because I want to move pastthem and I don't, you know, I
don't want certain people in mylife anymore because when
sometimes I see the true colors,it's like, yeah, I can still be
(45:08):
civil, absolutely, but I'm notgoing to go back to trusting and
wanting to form a closer bondagain.
But I really love that.
That'll give me something elseto think about.
You cannot change what youcannot confront.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
I think that's so powerful That'll give me
something else to think about.
You cannot change what youcannot confront.
I think that's so powerful.
When I had first read that, youknow it really hit me right
where I'm living right nowBecause I think that some of
these things are right.
Part of the problem is becausethey're a hard thing for me to
confront, and so the walls go up.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Yeah, I do it too.
I do it too, I do it too, thereare lies.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
the book said that people have believed and lived
by, you know, and it meant thatthey believed the lie and it
affected their behavior becausethey believed it.
For instance, the world wasflat.
People believed it.
Some people still do, that'strue.
But they wouldn't even go outinto the ocean because they
believed that they would falloff the edge, you know.
Or if you swallow gum or awatermelon, how about if you
(46:17):
swallow a watermelon seed thatyou're going to grow one in your
stomach?
Speaker 1 (46:21):
swallow a watermelon seed that you're going to grow
one in your stomach.
Yes, yes, hey.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
at this point I feel like that might be something we
wish could happen.
Yeah, here's one.
How about if you sit too closeto the TV and you'll go blind?
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Or if you drink coffee too young, it'll stunt
your growth.
My parents would say that Inever heard that one.
But anyway, I mean those areall kinds of you know where we
really believe a lie, justbecause, just because Because we
were told from trusted peopleand that's how we live, yeah, so
(46:57):
we make decisions based on thethings that we know and the
reality and the perception thatwe have about that reality.
So I mean it's kind ofinteresting.
But now you know, let's go backto reality.
Well, I guess the reality as wenow know it, the book asked was
(47:24):
what if you buy into the liethat you were telling yourself?
And then they say in the book,a lie believed as truth will
affect your life, as if it weretrue?
So if we believe a lie that'stelling us you know in our head
that we are no good or we can't,is that doubting God?
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Is that doubting God?
That's a good question.
I think just because of ourhuman nature we do these things.
I don't know if I can say thatwhen I have believed a lie about
myself never maybe I shouldn'tsay never I often I've not,
(48:03):
often not even anything I couldremember had anything to do with
doubting God.
It had everything to do withdoubting myself.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Okay, but if we do doubt ourselves, I guess that's
saying to that we don't trusthim to.
You know, overpower our owndoubts about who we are.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Yeah, I guess that would be.
I just never looked at it thatway.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
I didn't either, not until I saw that In real bold
letters in the book it said youare not who others say you are.
You are who I say you are fromGod.
So I really needed to hear that.
As soon as I read that, I satin it because I'm getting
(48:55):
messages around me that I'm notvery worthy and I am not
appreciated.
You know those are hard lessons, hard messages to hear.
Can I ask you, Tina, whatnegative messages have you taken
(49:16):
away from your childhood thathave actually maybe infiltrated
your life now and might replayin your head?
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Well, I wanted to say some of the things that you
were just talking about are it'sjust, it's powerful, and I can.
I wanted to talk about how myvery first restorative yoga
class I took after we had ourstillborn son, several weeks,
possibly even months, after thathad happened, and why I took
the class was I really needed toeither get control of my
(49:44):
thoughts or shut my brain off?
And I thought that would be agood way to try to start and see
, well, could I do it?
Could I relax enough that Icould actually think about just
being in the moment in yogaclass?
And the truth is it took me along time, but I absolutely can,
and restorative yoga has becomea part of my regular routine
and self-care for years now.
But I say that because I willnever forget my very first
(50:08):
restorative yoga class and therewas a song on from.
I can't think if it's India,irie or I can't think of the
artist right now but it said youare not the choices other
people made.
Is that how the lyric goes?
(50:29):
Something like that.
In other words, it freed mefrom it right there and I sobbed
In my very first yoga class.
I was lying there sobbingbecause it instantly freed me of
something I guess I had beencarrying regarding my brother,
(50:49):
to be honest.
And so, right then, and there,you are not the things you know
your family did, you are not thethings your family did, and you
know, don't listen to thevoices in your head, and things
like that and I thought, oh mygosh, I was carrying because he
did it.
That meant I did it and thatwhen people looked at him one
way, they looked at me that waytoo.
(51:10):
And that's it freed me, rightthen and there, to not feel that
way and to release that,because that's not the truth.
His actions have nothing to dowith me and that's not who I am.
You know, go ahead, becausewhoever he is is him, but I am
(51:31):
not that way.
And it really did.
It freed me.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
That's really powerful and I think I just
needed to hear that just nowbecause you know I have carried
with me since my mom did whatshe did letting my sister go.
She put her back into thesystem after my dad died and we
really never saw her again untilI was an adult, and I made that
(51:57):
happen.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
India Irie, I Am Light.
In case anyone wants to lookthat song up, it was India, irie
.
It's called I Am Light and it'sbeautiful and you should
absolutely listen to it.
I will.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
Those lyrics come from.
But I just want to say you knowthat that's really powerful to
me because when I went throughthose few things, really rough
times as a kid, and then youtake it to your adulthood and
you're still owning it, like youjust talked about, you know
you're still owning it eventhough it wasn't yours to own.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And to answer the question infinality that you had asked me
what negative messages did Itake away from my childhood that
I might replay in my head?
I don't know that I've evertalked about this before on the
(53:06):
podcast, but there is someonewho really hurt me deeply from a
young age until my mid-20s whenI feel like God was saying okay
, you can handle this.
Now You're going to have todeal with something hard.
And I told this person I didn'tunderstand his decisions when I
was younger to give me up.
Okay, if you will.
So I'm talking about mybiological dad and our
(53:27):
relationship is repaired as bestas it will be at this point and
I don't want him to listen tothis and be discouraged.
I mean, I would just say thatfor the longest time I just
replayed over and over and overin my head when he told me he
(53:47):
laughed at me when I asked himthat question and said maybe if
you were younger asking me this,I would actually care, but you
need to just be over it and Ithought, wow, I thought that was
not at all the answer that Iwas hoping for.
I was hoping for a little bitof closure, to just ask it like
(54:09):
where were you at at that timeto make that decision and you
know, to let me be adopted,which ended up in my favor.
It wasn't that I was upsetabout it, I just had the
question of why, right?
Why did you?
do that Right, and I never didget the answer.
That was the answer I got, butthat was something that played
(54:31):
around in my head that was like,oh well, you're not good enough
.
Oh well, how stupid that you'rethis old and that you cared
about this and you know.
So that kind of thing thatmessed with me for a while.
But again, I know when to andwhere to go and get the help and
counseling that I need to workthrough I'm sorry, for I have to
accept an apology I'll neverget and I'm really proud of me
(55:06):
for being able to do that.
So those were some of thethings.
You know, I often fight thelonely here and there.
I fight that I'm not goodenough.
I fight the perfectionism,which isn't something we talked
about in this, but it'ssomething that goes around in my
(55:26):
head quite a bit.
So I think we all havesomething we really do and I
think really truly, I like toalways go back to some sort of
kindness when we talk in ourpodcasts and I think if we could
just be extra kind to thepeople around us, it would make
a world of difference, even ifthat just means smiling or
holding a door or saying hi or akind gesture.
(55:47):
You just don't know what peopleare going through.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
You know, I thought about the answer to that
question but all I could come upwith was negative.
I came up with, you know,you're no good, not smart, not
worthy, never good enough tomake it, and even though I have,
which is interesting, and thosetypes of words you know how
(56:14):
visual both of us are told thisstory in this book that I found
really interesting because hetricked his friend during a game
and they were adults when thishappened that you know they were
playing this game and the guywas hiding in the closet and he
went up and he pretended helocked it and he told his friend
(56:37):
that he locked the closet.
Well, what ended up happeningis his friend never tried to
even open it because he believedthe lie.
And how powerful is that?
He said living your life by.
Speaker 1 (56:52):
It's funny.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cutyou off, but that is so
interesting because I took awaya positive from that.
I didn't think of believing thelie.
I thought how trustworthy thatrelationship was Interesting.
That was my very first thoughtwas how trusting.
Speaker 2 (57:14):
Well, he says.
You know, living your life by alie is like believing the door
is locked when it isn't.
Speaker 1 (57:25):
So good it's, so good .
I feel like we've left so muchmeat to chew on in this podcast,
and I hope that that's going toresonate with you too.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm talking about.
When I was looking over thispodcast, I really started in a
different spot.
But you know and I'm glad thatwe have as many end of it an
hour later.
I feel like I've grown, I feellike I've gotten something out
(58:07):
of it.
Speaker 1 (58:08):
Yeah, I do too, and that's always our hope and goal.
So feel free to reach out toeither or both of us and let us
know what our podcast had meantto you.
We'd love to hear from you,anne.
If you want to drop our emailaddress, that'd be great, you
can reach us atrealtalkwithtinaandannecom.
Speaker 2 (58:27):
You can fill out the form that pops up and it will
immediately notify us with youremail and then we can put you in
our contact information for allof our newsletters and mailings
and things like that.
Speaker 1 (58:42):
You can find us on Facebook too.
Information for all of ournewsletters and mailings and
things like that you can find uson Facebook too.
So if you go to Real Talk, Tinaand Anne, you will find us
there.
You'll see our picture that yousee in the background right
here.
So it'll help you identify that.
Yes, you have reached the rightpage.
Speaker 2 (58:55):
Yes, Well, thank you for joining us this week and, as
usual, there's purpose in thepain and there's hope in the
journey, and we are doing thisone step at a time with you,
because this is a journey andwe're not doing it alone, we're
not doing it in isolation andwe're trying to all grow
together because there's areason why that we're supposed
(59:19):
to be in relationship.
Absolutely, we're hardwired forit.
I think we talked a to be inrelationship.
Absolutely, we're hardwired forit.
I think we talked a lot aboutthat on here today and being
open to new things and growthand not putting up walls and
allowing them to come down alittle bit when we need to.
So let's try to break thosewalls together.
So, thank you for joining usthis week and, as usual, we will
(59:42):
see you next time.
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