August 13, 2025 • 59 mins
Sculptor Jon Hair’s life is a masterclass in perseverance and purpose. Abandoned by his mother and raised in poverty and an orphanage called The Home for the Friendless, Jon’s journey from hardship to hope is nothing short of extraordinary. In this episode, he shares how he transformed pain into passion, starting a music career as a child and eventually pursuing his dream of becoming a sculptor at age 49. With over 170 public art pieces—including the prestigious Olympic Monument—John's story is proof that it's never too late to rise.
Whether you're chasing your dream, recovering from trauma, or wondering if your time has passed, this conversation will remind you:
It’s not about where you start. It’s about what you do with your 24 hours.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
world changers aren't pleasing everybody, they're
just not my artwork that'saround, that people see it.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
They, they're, they're, uh, they're motivated
by it.
You know they, they, they getenjoyment out of seeing it.
They, uh, it touches a part ofthem that maybe they didn't even
know it existed.
Because who goes and looks atart and goes, oh man, I look at
all art, I love, I love, I likeall art.
(00:48):
Uh, to me, if you're an artistand you can make a living in
this environment, more power toyou.
I always challenge myself to.
Even when I was a drummer, Itried not to play the same lick
twice in a night.
Everything clean, different.
And I tried to do that with myart too, that's so amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
How did you go from that kid that just got up there
on that stage and startedplaying to get the people in the
room to hear you and give youthe gig to who you became?
How did you get from that tothat?
Just keep doing that.
You just kept showing up.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
You just kept going up.
Be persistent.
Uh one what.
I've been married twice.
My first wife ran away with amotorcycle mechanic and my
second wife.
Now we're getting ready tocelebrate our 48th wedding
anniversary.
Oh, congratulations.
She's been with me all thattime.
She's helped me a lot.
She really has.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Having someone genuinely care and be in your
corner, because she came from areal family.
She came from a real family.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
You know, her uncle and aunt got killed in a car
wreck so her dad took in her twonieces, Okay, right, so five
kids in a two-bedroom apartmentraised them up, that kind of a
thing and they, you know theywere.
They were, uh, proud catholicsand very religious and, you know
, principled.
(02:19):
And her father, uh, was a greatguy.
He had a saying and I stillstick with it Always do what's
right and you can't go wrong.
Right, that's it.
I just keep that under my beltand whenever I'm in a situation
I think of that.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, you had a lot of wrong done to you with five
kids living in a basement.
As you start Six, oh, six kidsliving in a basement, you know I
mean you— A one-roomschoolhouse.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
That's not a big basement.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Who was living upstairs.
Can I ask, because I'm reallywondering.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
My dad was working three jobs.
One of those jobs was acarpenter and he was trying to
finish the upstairs so that wecould live upstairs.
But my mom ran around on him.
He never knew it.
Her and her boyfriend said hey,we got to get Archie that's my
dad's name, archie.
He's passed away now.
(03:19):
So she, we got to get Archieout of town.
So we can you know we can, wecan be free to party.
Let's get him a job overseas.
So they looked through thenewspaper.
They found a job for acarpenter in Thule, greenland,
building an Air Force base onthe Arctic Circle, for a year.
Sign up for a year.
(03:41):
You get twelve hundred dollarsa month, which in 1955 was a lot
of money.
It's three or four times whathe could make working three jobs
in Iowa.
So he went off for a year andwhen he got back, mom was gone,
the money was gone and the kidswere in the basement by
themselves.
Now what are we going to dowith them?
(04:01):
So that was the situation.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So that's how you ended up in the orphanage.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
That's how we ended up in the orphanage, because my
grandma took the baby, my oneaunt took the two girls and
nobody wanted the three boys.
So the three of you In the LynnCounty Iowa children's home,
formerly known as the home forthe friendless.
Oh my goodness, and that wasbad.
(04:28):
But you know what?
I broke the bank twice inMonopoly when I was at that
orphanage and they made us workoutside and do yard work and
stuff like that.
That place was the best lookingplace.
After I got done with it, do Ibelieve my thing is, my god, my
mother hated us.
(04:49):
Uh, when I was a drummer at 14,playing miami beach, I dragged
my drums into the house at twoin the morning and with all of
it there'd be a double sink withdishes piled up as far as you
could see, with a note on therethat said john, do these, or
else because nobody else woulddo it.
My older brother was a goldbrick.
(05:10):
He never did a damn thing.
I was on that did everything.
Because I, I was, I was superobedient.
I didn't want to get beaten.
I did whatever I had to do tonot get beaten.
But when I got in there Istarted doing those dishes.
I cleaned that whole kitchenspotless.
I was up like for two hours andI said, if I'm going to do it,
(05:32):
it's going to be the best thatcan be done, and that's just
kind of my attitude, whetherit's cleaning the floor,
painting a house or doing art orplaying music.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
You can't teach that.
I don't think, because thereare so many kids and people
today that really want thingsdone for them and they don't.
They want to get things forfree.
So you know, and what I reallylike about and I was exactly the
same way, I mean I was ascrapper, I mean I did
everything I could to make itand nobody.
(06:03):
I just go after the hustlebecause I learned really young
that I couldn't rely on anybodyIf I was going to do something,
be something, create something,I had to rely on myself and you
learned that really really youngas well.
So you were that little littlekid.
How old were you in thebasement when you were looking
(06:24):
at those world bookencyclopedias, would you say
Well, by then I was probably.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Well, let's see Catholic school, first grade six
.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Six years old, and you knew then that you wanted to
get in that book.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, I knew then Because I admired the artwork
that was in there so much that Iwanted to be with that group of
people.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
So you didn't start sculpting.
Until what year?
Was it 2000 or something likethat?
Speaker 2 (06:55):
I was 49 years old, I had my editing, so it was doing
really well.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Right, but I was just bored.
But I was just bored.
So I mean you held on to thoseimages in your head all those
years and it still was inside ofyou and you just wanted to
start creating that.
I mean, that's an absolutebeautiful story, it's just kind
of.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
You know the way I was born, I think I got the art
G.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
That's what I think Now you did say to me in a
conversation that unless youhave this absolute burning
desire inside of you to do this,don't even bother.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Well, yeah, because a lot of parents will ask me oh,
my son or my daughter, they wantto major in art, and you know,
at the University of so-and-so.
What do you think?
I think I tell them don't do it, because the art world, uh, and
the music world, you have tocreate your own clients.
Unless you've got this thing,like I like I've had my whole
(07:54):
life is burning inside.
You remember that movie alien,where that thing popped up out
of that guy?
Yeah, I've had that my wholelife, right in here, kind of
like pushing me.
You know, john, do something,get up, don't sit.
Make something, draw something,paint something, uh, build
something, uh.
When I was a kid I took thelawnmower in Iowa and I drove
(08:16):
the lawnmower around all thebushes out in the back by the
woods and I took scraps of uhsiding and made yield signs and
stop signs and I had my littlecar that I would drive around in
there.
I'm like six years old, sothat's kind of been in me all
this time.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I'm glad it is, because it's the only thing
that's helped me to survive, andyou know one of the other
things that I've heard you saythrough this whole entire thing
is that you want to create joyin other people.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yes, and the heaviness isn't that our purpose
for being here?
I say that all the time.
Isn't that our purpose?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
it absolutely is my purpose, yeah, and I feel, and I
had felt very young, that thatwas my purpose as well, and I
was silenced and silenced andtold many different ways that I
didn't matter or whatever.
And so you know, here I amdoing this podcast and I've done
different art and I've been ajournalist and different things,
(09:18):
and I really do believe thatwhen you come from those kind of
beginnings that we've got somuch pain within us to offer to
other people, which will turn itinto joy, you know, I mean, we
just offer such a differentperspective in life and we want
to show people the joy inside ofus instead of the pain that we
(09:42):
went through.
One of the things that Iwondered was do you take the
pain from your beginnings andput them into your art?
Put it into your art?
No, no, not at all.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
The artwork really isn't.
I don't view the artwork as anextension of myself.
I'm creating that specificthing.
It has its own life.
That's the art.
Once I create that one piece,it stands on its own.
And I just visited somerelatives in South Carolina
(10:16):
yesterday and took twosculptures that I had in my
warehouse to give to family asgifts.
Those people really appreciatedit.
A little sculpture of CliffordBrown, the trumpet player I left
with my nephew because he wasfrom a mixed family and he's the
(10:44):
only guy I ever knew that had aClifford Brown album because
his dad listened to CliffordBrown.
I said this guy needs thelittle maquette that won the
commission in Wilmington,delaware, my eight foot statue
of Clifford Brown.
But there you know, cliffordBrown, great musician, right up
my alley.
I'd love to.
I want to do a Hendrix.
That guy was fantastic.
Oh my gosh, you have to do that.
Want to do a Hendrix that guywas fantastic.
(11:08):
Oh my gosh, I want to do that.
You know I did a great Obamafor the Mecklenburg Democratic
Party.
Those people really inspire me.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
How in the world did you see, I don't know, did you
do other busts of people otherthan Dick Van Dyke, because I
found that picture of youstanding with him with his bust?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I was in the foundry in LA working on the Olympic
monument and Dick's kind of anartistic guy.
He knew the guy that owned thefoundry.
And the guy that owned thefoundry told him that hey, the
sculptor that's doing theOlympic thing is here.
So Dick Van Dyke actually camedown to meet me.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
That's amazing, and then that was it.
I mean, he asked you to do thatwhen he walked in.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I said oh my God, it's Dick Van Dyke.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
What's he doing here, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
First thing I said I'm going to tell everybody that
I just met Dick Van Dyke.
I'm going to tell everybody Ijust met the sculptor for the US
Olympic team.
That's how cool he was.
He's asked me if I didportraits.
I said yeah.
So I did that little portrait ofhim.
I took it to his and then I hadto before I did the casting.
(12:21):
I want to make sure that heliked the sculpture right, so
you can take pictures ofsculpture, but it doesn't really
.
You don't get the sense and thefeel of what it really is like.
So I thought you know what Igot, to put this thing on an
airplane and go out there andget his look out before I have
it cast.
I took that thing on anairplane, flew it out there,
went to his house.
(12:41):
He loved it and then we did thecasting and I delivered it to
his house in Malibu.
He invited me up there andshowed me around his little tiny
bungalow he lives in.
His wife was there.
When I got to his house he wasout on the street talking to
these little kids in the back ofa station wagon.
Hey, kids, what's going on?
(13:03):
Little Bobby, or whatever theirnames are, he's the nicest.
He's another person that I'vejust been honored just to meet.
I've admired that guy my wholelife.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Well, and I have as well, and he's in his 90s, you
know, and I mean he's just stillmoving and doing things.
And one of the best quotes thatI ever heard him say when they
asked him you know, why can youstill dance and do these things?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
You know, he's like you just got to keep moving and
man, I tell all my friends youknow I'm going to be 75 in a
month and all my friends, mostof them, are retired I go, what
are you retired for?
You got to keep moving.
Get off the couch.
One of my friends oh my God,I've aged so much since I saw
you two years ago.
I'm this and I'm that.
What are you doing with yourtime?
(13:52):
What do you do with your time?
Get a job.
I told them Get a job.
You got to stay busy or you'regoing to vegetate and just fade
away.
You want to do that, not me.
I'm not fading away, I'm goingout with a boom.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Well, the older we get, the more we know, the more
that we can give back to theworld.
And you know, it's really sadthat some people feel that
they've reached a certain ageand they're done.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah Well, when you've worked a job that you
really never liked.
I mean, I came in the 40-yearperiod where nobody ever really
got a raise.
That's the time that I grew up.
40 years you really did not gethardly much of a raise.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
The last ad agency I worked in before I started my
own ad agency.
We had nine art directors inthere and three of them got
fired.
And then there was a salaryfreeze.
Nobody was going to get a raisefor at least a year.
When they told me that, Iwalked into my boss's office and
I said I want a raise today orI will not be back tomorrow.
(15:00):
Okay, we just fired three guysand you're coming in here asking
for a raise.
I said yeah, who's your numberone producer?
Me.
Who's going to be doing alltheir work?
Me.
So I want a raise, and I want araise today or I'm not going to
come back tomorrow.
You'll have to find somebodyelse.
And Well, at the end of the dayhe came back and he goes.
(15:23):
I can't believe it.
The old man said okay.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
You are absolutely amazing.
I love your spirit.
How in the world did you landthe Olympic job?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
It was a senator from North Carolina that was the
biggest Olympic individualsponsor, I guess you know giving
them money, because he was atrack star at UNC Chapel Hill
before the Blacks were allowedin the college.
Okay, when Blacks were finallyallowed to come in, all those
(16:01):
records went by the wayside.
Yeah.
For finally allowed to come in,all those records went by the
wayside.
Yeah.
But he loved the amateur sportsand he wanted to.
He was a supporter of theOlympic Committee.
So they asked him to build anew strength training center out
there in Colorado Springs attheir training center.
And he called me up and he saidJohn, I want you to come out.
(16:22):
We're going to build a strengthtraining center.
I want you to do a sculpturefor the front of it.
I went out there.
This was a trip.
This guy's name is Erwin Belt.
I don't know if you ever heardof Belt Department Stores, but
there's mostly a southern store.
They have 300 and somedepartment stores.
Huge outfit, huge outfit.
(16:43):
I went out there.
We went over the building andwhat they wanted, and then they
said they wanted a sculpturewith the theme of spring.
So then they all took us todinner at the Broadmoor, which
is a historic, old, big money,old money hotel.
Now they're saying, okay, well,what can we come up with?
(17:04):
Here's what we thought about.
Would you like one guy on abench with a towel around his
neck because he just lifted aweight and another guy lifting a
weight?
Okay, well, that's okay.
I said you know what, though?
What do you think of when?
What's the one visual thatcomes to mind when you think
about strength?
To me, it's Atlas.
Right, hold up the universe.
(17:25):
How about we have an Atlasfigure instead of an Atlas?
We have four Olympic athletes,and we can have a female for the
Pan American games.
We can have a, anAfrican-American guy for the U S
Olympic team, we can have anancient Greek, which was the
original, and we can have theParalympics.
That's, that's it, that'sics,and they could be holding up the
(17:48):
world, holding the world up ontheir shoulders.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
That's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Is there anything you could do with the Olympic
federations?
I said, well, how many arethere?
45?
Yeah, I'll sculpt their logosand relief and run them around
the base of the sculpture.
I sculpted it out on a napkinand showed them that.
And so then the donor says well, john, how much do you think
that's going to cost?
(18:14):
Do you want to do it life-size?
I said life-size, that's MickeyMouse.
You can't do this life-size.
It has to be at least twicelife-size and it's probably
going to run you a little over amillion dollars.
So you know what the guy goes.
Let's do it.
Oh my gosh, everybody was allexcited here.
We had the thing and, uh, wehad our dinner and drinks.
(18:36):
And after the dinner and drinkshis oldest son came up to me
and he said um, you're spendingour inheritance.
I said what?
Yeah, you're spending ourinheritance.
Our dad's giving you all theseprojects.
You're spending our inheritance.
I said what's an inheritance?
He said, well, it's what youget left when your relative dies
(18:59):
.
I said, well, is your fatherstill alive?
Yeah, so then he goes.
He got.
When I said that, he got reallymad and he goes.
I could go out right now andget a dozen guys that do what
you do, right, just like that,oh my gosh.
And I said well, you know,you're probably right, you could
find a lot of guys out therethat could do what I'm doing.
(19:20):
Can I?
Can I ask you a question?
Okay, have you ever been torome?
Yeah, I.
Have you ever been to thevatican?
Yeah, I've been to the vatican.
Have you ever been to theVatican?
Yeah, I've been to the Vatican.
Have you ever been to theSistine Chapel and seen that
beautiful ceiling in there?
Oh, yeah, I've been there.
I said who painted that?
He goes, well, everybody knowsthat Michelangelo.
(19:41):
I said, okay, now, who put upthe money for the painting?
Which pope?
Really, what I've learned isI've actually saved that family
millions because this guy washiring all these top level,
world-renowned sculptors just todo mediocre stuff.
But hire the best, yeah, yeahso.
(20:05):
But you know, the thing is, Isaved them millions of dollars
Because I didn't care aboutmaking a fortune.
I told my wife I think my onemistake was that my goal in life
was not to become rich.
I don't care about money.
We were so poor.
My dad got his suit that hewore on Sunday at the rescue
(20:31):
mission in Mansfield, ohio.
I don't care about my kind ofserial things, they don't mean a
thing to me.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
And did you get that $2 drum that you wanted?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah, well here's what happened that $2 drum.
I used to walk by there all thetime because my grandma's guest
house was right in downtown StPetersburg.
We lived in grandma's guesthouse for a couple of months and
then mom kicked grandma hairdown the steps, kicked an
80-year-old woman down theflight of steps that went up to
the garage apartment.
So grandma's hair threw us outof there.
(21:03):
We went out to the boondocks ofSt Petersburg where the streets
were just sand and the opensewer was running right in front
of your house, out where nobodylived.
And my next door neighbor had asandwich shop and it was going
to be the 4th of July parade andhe said, john, if you come down
and sell sandwiches out thereon the sidewalk, well, I'll pay
(21:26):
you $2.
You can get your grum.
I said, okay, I'll do that.
So there I was.
Sandwiches, hot Cubansandwiches.
Ladies and gentlemen, get themwhile they're hot, 25 cents
right here, hot Cuban sandwiches.
So after the parade was over andI saw those drummers march by,
he gave me the money.
I ran down to the music storeand I said I'm ready to get the
drum.
I dumped all the change out onthe counter and the guy counted
(21:52):
and he goes you're like 35 centsshort.
I said that guy stiffed me andI looked around when I noticed,
when I came in the door, on hiswindow it said St Pete music, I
think.
But it was that gold leaflettering it was peeling.
I said you know what?
I don't have the money, but I'man artist and I could repaint
your sign for you and you keepthe money.
I'll repaint your sign and justlet me have the drum for the
(22:12):
summer.
He goes okay, deal.
So I got that and I thought, no,how do I do that?
So I found a little sign shopand the guy in there was nice
enough to take thisnine-year-old kid.
Give him a brush that was aproper brush for sign painting.
Give him a brush that was theproper brush for sign painting.
(22:33):
Tell me how to prepare theglass.
Gave me the.
Gave me the, the metallic paint.
Uh, so that guy helped me andthat was my first freelance job.
And then, um, when I got to ohio, there was a dairy queen down
the street.
I did all their posters withthe big ice cream going and a
bananas, and I said I don't wantany money.
Just, you know, give me a tab,as I did my friends from junior
(22:53):
high school.
Hey, let's go get some icecream.
I don't have any money, it's onme.
Come on, banana split, it's onme.
You know, I'd take my friendsout there.
We'd get a free ice cream.
And even while I was in college, I hardly ever paid for a meal,
because I always ate at placeswhere I'd say, hey, you need a
new menu, I'll design it for you.
Hey, you need posters?
Up there, one guy was doing hisown condiments.
(23:16):
I'll do your label for yourproduct.
I'll do your logo, I'll put iton the window.
So anything.
Just like my first two years incollege, I don't think I ever
paid for a meal.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
So that's amazing.
I mean, you just always werethinking outside of the box.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
And you know, when I was in Columbus Ohio, I didn't
really have anything, didn'tknow anybody, and I just drive
around and hey, there's a brickwall over there that had a thing
painted on it and it's all gonebad.
I'm going to go in and tellthat guy let's repaint that, if
you don't like that one, we'llput a different one up there.
That's what I did Freelanceprojects, because nobody's going
(23:55):
to come and knock on your doorwhen they don't know who you are
and you don't have a door.
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
So you got to go out there and hustle.
What did the no's do for you?
Because I know that noteverybody said yes.
I mean there had to be no'salong the way.
I got a lot of those, and didthey ever beat you down?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
No, not really.
I just I didn't take it.
I'm not going to stand for that.
If you're going to put me downand do that kind of stuff, I'm
not going to deal with youeither professionally or get a
job working for you.
I'm not going to do it.
You're more important to methan I am to you.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
There you go, I mean.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I was just going to say you believed in yourself.
Well, I had to.
That's all I got Right.
You come to the realizationthat you basically are totally
on your own.
What are you going to do?
That's all you got on your own.
What are you going to do?
That's all you got.
You can only work with what youhave or what you're going to
develop in yourself.
That's going to make you moremarketable.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Right and, if I remember right, you told me you
were like 16 years old when yourealized.
That's it I have to do thislife by myself.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, I was playing my drums all over Miami and
going to high school and my momcame up, was going to hit me
with a baseball bat and I saidyou know what?
That is the end of thepunishment.
You will never hit me again,you will never strike me again.
I grabbed that bat, threw itout.
(25:28):
After that she never botheredme.
Just the way it is.
You know, you got to make itbetter for yourself and you want
to make it better for yourselfby doing good, good things, not
bad things.
You know, don't go out andsteal the worst thing in my life
a thief.
I have been robbed at gunpoint.
I have been robbed at gunpoint.
(25:49):
I have been robbed at knifepoint.
I sat in the back of a car witha carpet knife and a
switchblade on my neck, likethat in San Francisco, where I
went for an audition with DaveMason, a famous musician.
I thought I was going to die inthat freight yard down there.
But here I am.
I recognize, you know what.
I'm in the backseat of a carlike this with a knife on my
(26:11):
neck.
I realize I only had one weaponthis.
And then we're black.
I'm a junkie man.
I need a fix.
You got money.
We're junkies, we gotta have afix.
All I had was $2 on me.
I was going for an audition.
I on me, I was going for anaudition.
(26:31):
I didn't drive my van, I washitchhiking because the clutch
was going out.
I was like in San Francisco,trying to go up these hills with
no clutch.
So I just started talking.
You know, this was my weapon.
I talked about Jimi Hendrix,the Isley brothers, little
Richard.
I played with them, everyperson of color that I knew.
And finally the one guy goeshey, man, you know he didn't
have anything, let's let him go.
The guy goes okay, man, we'regoing to let you go, but you
(26:54):
turn your head as much as oneinch, I'm going to come back and
cut you, cut you.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
My gosh.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So they drove me to a freight yard in San Francisco.
But now it's like one or two inthe morning, we let you go,
francisco.
But now it's like one or two inthe morning, we let you go and
the guys.
So finally the other guy goes.
I think he's still holding outon us.
He pulls out his carpet knifeagain and then that switchblade
again.
I thought, okay, this and youknow, they say that your life
flashes before your eyes.
Right, yeah, that did thatactually happened, just like
(27:26):
that in a second.
Everything.
You really thought you weregonna die.
This is the end of john hair,down here in this freight yard
and that's, that's just going tobe the end of it.
But uh, I said, okay, there'snothing I can do.
I don't have any money.
I'll take you to berkeley ifyou want.
I'll stay with my friend overthere, see if we can get you
some heroin.
There's nothing I can do, so dowhat you're gonna do.
(27:47):
So I told them you're gonnakill me.
Kill me, if not, just let me go.
So they let me go.
And uh, it was one of those oldcars where the two the seat up
in front pull forward.
Then you could step out of theback seat.
Just a two right right, there'smy foot, hit the ground, bam in
the back of my head with a winebottle and I went like red
(28:08):
black, red black, red black andI was out.
I woke up.
I don't know how much later itwas, it was still dark and I had
to laugh because the irony ofit was the only way I could get
back to Berkeley was hitchhike,and that's how I got in this
mess.
So I had to find my way fromthis freight yard down over to
(28:31):
the book, the Bay Bridge,oakland Bay Bridge.
I finally got on the bridge.
It's like four in the morning,dark.
All these cars are whizzing by.
I'm dressed like Jimi Hendrix.
I got all this flashy clotheson.
My drumsticks are sticking inmy boot.
You know I got blood.
My hair's all matted with bloodrunning down my face and on my
shirt.
I'm out there hitchhiking.
(28:52):
Nobody's stopping.
Finally this black Mercedespulls in.
Hey, where are you going?
I said Berkeley.
Okay, hop in, we'll give you aride.
So I hopped in and this couplehad been doing all night cocaine
thing.
I think he had a sports coach,he had a fox, stole one, and
they never said one word to meafter that, just where you know,
where do you want us to dropyou off?
(29:13):
It was like oh, did you hearwhat John said to Bill?
I couldn't believe that.
And did you see that dressSusan was wearing strictly last
season?
Let me out of here.
I got back to Berkeley.
I threw my drums in the van.
The guy goes well, what aboutyour audition?
I go.
I wouldn't live in SanFrancisco if you paid me a
million dollars.
(29:34):
I'm out of here.
Yeah, back to Vegas, which iswhere I was working, waiting for
the band Sugarloaf to come.
I was their drummer for thesummer and they had some kind of
complications with being inrehab or something like that.
So I never got that gig.
And when I got back to Vegas, mywife and the baby were gone and
(29:56):
there was a note there John momwanted me to bring the baby
back for Christmas.
I'll see you in a few weeks.
And a few weeks went by and amonth went by and weeks more
went by and I called my buddy inMansfield Ohio and I said hey,
can you just go down and seewhat's going on?
Uh, my wife's living down thereand her parents of uh with her
parents, with our, with our baby.
He called me back and he goes.
(30:18):
Well, her parents don't livethere anymore.
She's like that, shacked upwith some bike.
A biker guy oh my gosh.
Oh, now, uh, now I gotta driveback to ohio and take care of
all this, which I had a coupleof jobs I was doing.
I was doing like light shows forclubs while I was trying to
make money and stay alive inVegas I was waiting for this
(30:39):
other band and so I dropped back53 hours straight to Ohio and
we had this front doors and allthe Ohio style door with a
window in the front, with thecurtain.
She comes like this wait aminute, comes out and hands me
an envelope Manila envelope andI said what's this?
She goes, we're divorced.
(30:59):
I said we can't be divorced inOhio.
You have to wait a year.
Well, I told the judge that youabandoned me.
Wow, okay.
And then he, so he gave you adivorce.
Well, I've been sleeping withthe guy.
And the judge was a friend of awas.
It was a father of a goodfriend of mine from high school.
(31:21):
So that's that.
I said, okay, I left that place.
Uh, as I left, I I kicked a bigHarley motorcycle off the porch
through the railing, into theconcrete driveway, and I never
saw her again after that.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
You have really been through it.
What made you?
I'm still seeing that kid washolding the grabbing the
baseball bat and saying you arenever going to hurt me again.
I mean that really took a lotto be able to do that and for
your mom to listen to you.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Well her?
Her answer was oh yeah, well,you can.
Just, you're going to startpaying rent.
You're going to start payingrent because you're playing in
the band.
You're making pretty good moneyfor a high school kid.
I said, you know what?
I'll go live with my bassplayer before I'll pay you rent.
So she didn't.
I stayed there, but you know,after that I couldn't take it
(32:18):
anymore.
I left there and went to Ohioand moved in with my dad and
studied fine art at Ohio Stateand then dropped out of there
during the Vietnam thing andjust, I worked at, I was an art
director at a local Columbuscable TV station and I played my
music at night while I wasstill going to art school and
(32:39):
I'd be in the basement of theseclubs with three cartons of beer
stacked up with a light bulb ona chain, with my art history
book, doing my studies downthere.
So I just you know, here's thething.
There's only one way thathumans are equal.
Okay, you have 24 hours in yourday.
(33:02):
What are you doing with your 24hours?
When I first started sculpting,people said you're john, you're
50, you're 50 years old, you'regonna start a new career, are
you gonna?
Are you gonna compete with.
These guys have been doing ittheir whole lives.
I said you know what?
I got 24 hours in my?
I get eight hours to sleep and16 hours to work, and the first
(33:26):
nine years that I was inbusiness I never took one day
off.
I worked 12 to 16 hours everyday and that's how I built up
that tremendous body of work.
That's how I did it.
So that's what I tell people.
People go man, I could havebeen a great artist.
What are you doing with your 24hours?
I encourage them.
If you want to do art, do art.
(33:46):
I know you have a job.
You probably had to raise afamily and all that.
But here's what you do get aspot in your house.
That's going to be your littlestudio.
Just think it's a desk, allright in the garage, it's in the
spare room, wherever.
Get yourself, set up all yourart supplies there and then,
like on Saturday morning, fromnine to noon, you're going to do
(34:07):
your art.
Get started doing your art andafter you do that, you're going
to start seeing results.
You're going to start seeingthat you're producing stuff.
You're going to start feelinggood about it.
You're going to start feelinggood about yourself and putting
more time into that where,gradually, if you totally
(34:28):
embrace that thing, then that'llbe your career.
What do you do in your 24 hours.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I love that because I have the same philosophy and I
too.
I see so many people sittingaround on their phones or doing,
you know, all the things thataren't productive when we can
put down our phones, and wecould be so much more productive
in our days, but I think somany things have robbed us today
(34:55):
from being able to do that yourdays and your nights.
Yeah, before we go, you saidthat you played also with Little
Richard.
Could you talk about that?
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Yeah, Richard, he was a trip.
My band played with him at theWhiskey A.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Go-Go in LA.
I've been there, I know thatplace.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
And they left there and came back to Miami.
And it was several years laterand Richard came to Miami and
called us up hey man, come downand see me.
So we went down to his hotel.
He had a big suite and hiscousin Candy opened the door.
Who was the head of hisentourage?
There was about 12 people inthis suite and Richard says I
(35:42):
want to play you all my new song.
I think it was Good Gosh,almighty or something like that.
And he picked up a guitar.
I didn't know Richard evenplayed guitar, I thought he was
just a piano player.
So he goes into the bedroom,lays out with his feet out
straight on the bed, he's gothis guitar and he's playing this
song and they're all around thebed like this, kneeled on the
(36:03):
floor, you know, and whenRichard spoke, nobody spoke.
He's like the Inca or the AztecI speak, you do not speak, okay
.
So he's in there playing a songand all these people are
kneeling around the bed andJimmy and I are just standing
over, kind of in the doorwaylistening to the song and the
(36:26):
phone rings goes John, john,john, get the phone.
He always went like that getthe phone, get the phone.
So I went over.
I go.
This is Paul McCartney he'srich.
Paul McCartney.
Oh my god, yeah, let me, let meget him for you, so I run out
of your Richard.
Richard Paul McCartney's on thephone, wants to talk to you.
He goes, tell him to wait aminute.
I'm playing my song.
I said okay, so me and Jimmywe'll talk to Paul McCartney for
(36:51):
five minutes or so.
So we were just chatting withPaul and he goes, could you ask
him again?
I said okay, so I went in.
Richard Paul McCartney's beenon the phone for five minutes.
I said tell him to wait aminute.
I made the.
I made the Beatles.
I made the Beatles, which hedid because they hit it big when
they were touring with him inGermany.
Okay, so anyway, this guy madePaul McCartney wait on the phone
(37:14):
and this was a transatlanticphone call Back then it was a
lot of money Made him wait 15minutes.
And finally I went in and Isaid Richard, paul McCartney has
been waiting on the phone for15 minutes.
Are you going to talk to him?
He goes, tell him I'll call himback.
Wow, yeah, there's a guy whocan make one of the Beatles wait
(37:40):
on the phone for 15 minutes andthen not even talk to him.
So then he asked me to be hisgroomer.
I thought, no man, I can't doit because he's too flighty, you
know, and at that time he hadlike a $500 a day cocaine habit
and I've never been in cocainebecause it was just way too
expensive for me man what astory.
(38:01):
I mean, you have so many stories?
Oh, I have a lot of stories,that's true.
I'm doing a book.
Okay, all right, talk aboutthat.
I've got.
I've done a hundred and I'mcoming up on 170 public art
commissions.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Okay, and.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
I'm sitting at out at my son's house with my grandson
, who's six years old, and hepoints me.
He goes old, old, old and Ithought you know what I'm going
to do?
A book, because I want mygrandkids and my great grandkids
and everybody else in thisfamily what your grandpa did.
(38:38):
Right, I've got and I'm alreadyover 200 pages and I'm not even
through half of my stuff yet,because I'm going to show big,
beautiful color pictures now areyou doing the drumming too?
Speaker 1 (38:50):
I went to, I went to an audition.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I was just some guys called me.
I said, hey, I'm on yourwebsite.
See you play with jimmyhendrickson.
You're in north carolina now.
Yeah, uh, would you want tocome and play with us?
Uh, we're in huntersville andthere's a studio and we'd like
you to come and play just for acouple hours.
I said, well, I, I was close, Ilived pretty close.
I said, okay, I'll do that.
So I went down there and thefirst thing I said was okay, you
(39:13):
know what?
I haven't sat down in a set ofdrums in about five years.
So just, can we start off easy?
Why do they start off with ledzeppelin?
I thought I was gonna have aheart attack.
I was like you didn't like that, but I, I, I got on top of it.
I played it just fantastic.
And when that song was done andthey were good, they were good
(39:34):
players the guitar player goesman, we got us a real drummer.
Now we got us a real drummer.
So I did that for two hours.
I felt so good when I walked outof there my whole body was
vibrating because I got to justbeat those drums for two hours.
I just loved it.
And then I'm driving home and Ithought I used to be able to
(39:58):
listen to a drum lick one timeand then I could play it Just
another drummer.
I didn't do that this time.
There was a couple of songsthat I couldn't get the part and
what I realized was it wasn'tthat I couldn't hear it or
understand how to do it, Icouldn't remember it a minute
later.
That happened to me about threetimes and I thought you know
(40:20):
what, you must be losing yourshort-term memory.
And that's kind of when I gotdown and said they asked me to
come back and play again and Isaid no, I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
I think you're being a little hard on yourself too,
though I mean, I don't know, I'msure it still sounded amazing.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
No, matter what.
Oh man, we played for two hours.
I just, I just laid it down,man, I felt so good.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
I mean, even when you were done, they said that they
found a real drummer.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah they liked me, I could have gone
back there.
I could have gone back andgotten that band, but I don't
know, kind of busy doing thisother stuff right now, maybe
when I'm 80, I'll do that.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
You still are now.
You're playing it into your 80s, so that's fantastic.
I hope I'm here.
I think that you do more in oneday than a lot of people do in
a week.
Well, you know what?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
My wife is a movie lover.
She sits around the living roomall night.
Let's watch a movie, let'swatch a movie, let's watch.
I said you know what?
I don't want to spend the restof my life watching movies.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
I want to go out and do stuff that people make movies
about Exactly.
Let's do that with our time.
You know, I said movies aboutother people.
Other people have told me bywatching my life that they are
tired.
You know, because we were in 16states this summer and we just
go and do and I want toexperience and I want to have my
kids be exposed to as manythings as they possibly can, and
(41:48):
I want to get up and I want tobe creative and I want to go to
bed and I'm just thinking andI'm just what can I write down?
What can I do next?
And that's what inspires me.
That's what moves me forwardevery single day.
That's what gets me.
That's what moves me forwardevery single day.
That's what gets me up in themorning, and if other people are
tired, then let them go to bed.
That's it.
That's it, yeah, yeah.
(42:08):
Well, you know, I am so blessedand grateful that I walked past
you that day, and then I walkedpast you again that day and
started the conversation withyou.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
I'm honored that I even know you.
What you've done with your lifeis nothing.
I can't compare to that.
Oh my gosh, john, I mean Iadmire you.
As far as I'm concerned, I'mjust you know, this little guy
over here.
What you've done is totallyamazing Taught yourself, because
nobody would teach you.
(42:40):
Wow, I'm just proud to be yourfriend.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
I hope we are friends .
We are friends and I reallythank you for that because you
know, when I was that little kidagain, just like you, I mean, I
was battered down and here Iwas this kid that wasn't able to
really learn and I had allthese disabilities and things,
and so I was this kid thatwasn't able to really learn and
I had all these disabilities andthings, and so I did.
They even said that I probablywouldn't even graduate high
(43:08):
school and then I ended up justgetting a hold of a tape
recorder, because you know, I'mold and I got a hold of a tape
recorder and then I would talkinto it, I would read into it
and the words were even messedup, but I would do my best
reading into this tape recorder.
I would read into it and thewords were even messed up, but I
would do my best reading intothis tape recorder, I would
listen to it, I would write itdown, I would take notes, I
would remember enough to retainenough to take a test to get a C
(43:29):
maybe, and I just did that allthe way to a master's degree,
you know, and I just decidedthat young, that nobody was
going to define me and tell methat I wasn't able to do
something, so you can relatewith that.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I can, I can.
They're still telling me thatand I'm still doing my stuff.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Well, please keep me informed with what's going on in
your life.
And also, you know I want toread that book.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Okay, well, if I can ever get it done.
I met a guy named Paul Sorvino.
He's a movie actor.
He played in Goodfellas.
You know that guy, I do and hewas a sculptor and he called me
asking for help.
So we kind of became friends.
He asked me if I wanted to bein this movie he was doing in
New York and I said, yeah, Idon't have to learn any lines,
(44:16):
do I?
He said no, just like, do awalk across.
I said what's that?
And he goes.
You know, when they open ascene, somebody kind of walks
across and the camera zooms inon the action.
Yeah, yeah, I'll do that.
So I went up there.
We were filming at this old,abandoned hospital.
It was during the middle of thenight and we went back to his
(44:36):
house after the shoot.
He wanted me to see his littlesculpture studio that he had
just built.
He told me his life stories.
We're sitting around hiskitchen table at four in the
morning drinking coffee.
I told him about my life story.
He goes oh my God, john, that'sa movie, that's at least a
documentary or something.
He said you've got to write ascreenplay.
(44:57):
He says write a book.
He says no, don't write a book,write a screenplay.
I said why do I write a?
Write a script.
He says write a book.
I says no, don't write a book,write a screenplay.
I said why?
Why do I write a screenplay?
Just take that little scriptthat you've been carrying around
in your pocket, that I gave you, use that for your model and
then write your, write yourstory.
So I started, and at this timewe were taking care of my wife's
father who was bedridden, so Ihad, I, I just started writing
(45:41):
these little chapters.
You know a little piece of mylife here.
And then this happened.
That happened and I wrote itall and I, by the time I got
through a lot of it.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
I was so depressed that I just I didn't want to
finish it.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
And I said well, Paul , what's going to happen to you
in the movie?
I got to die, but there's somuch hope in your story.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
It never happened, but I still got those stories
and I don't know if I want torelive those.
But you know, some of thethings that we've done on the
podcast is talk about some ofthose hurtful things and we go
and we, we, yeah, we revisit andit is very difficult to revisit
those times, but I do thinkthat they it gives other people
hope and it gives them you know,the people that are actually
living in it or they feel as ifthey can't move forward from
whatever moment in time thatthey're in.
(46:16):
It shows them that they can sureso I don't know, maybe you will
still have a movie about yourlife someday.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Well, if they do, nobody's going to know all the
people in the movie they'regoing to go.
Who's Jimi Hendrix?
They're still saying that now.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Oh well, there's still enough of us around that
know who he is.
I think, and I don't know.
I mean, he forged a path for alot of people, so I hope that we
don't forget about him.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Oh, I don't think we'll ever.
If we do, it's a sad moment forthe whole planet.
Oh, absolutely Fantastic, andyou, you're a moment for the
planet.
Seriously, thank you for whatyou're doing.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
I'm sure you're helping a lot of people with
these podcasts and you know it'sthat burning that you talked
about and I've always had thatburning to be able to tell
stories of other people and beable to get it out either by
writing or broadcasting.
And my first classes in collegewere in broadcasting and I,
just like we said you know youand I had a conversation before
(47:38):
where sometimes our roads don'talways go.
It's not a straight road andyou never know where you're
going to end up, but you have tobe open to wherever those roads
lead.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
Yeah, and you can't sit around waiting for
opportunities.
You have to go out and makeyour own.
You do.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Absolutely yeah.
I've spent the last few weeksjust showing up at places and
making things happen, and thatis proof of what your life, what
you have done.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Tom Petty had a song where he said I have just one
light.
That's the way most peopleshould be, in my opinion.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Well, our lights, kind of, you know, passed and so
I'm very thankful that I'mtelling you.
When you were there, and at onepoint I saw you just walking
around with a cup of coffee andI'm just like he's interesting,
I'm going to talk to him.
So I'm glad that I did, I'mvery thankful.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
You know I don't know what it is, but I get that a
lot.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Yeah, but you kind of put out this energy.
You know, I don't think thatyou realize.
I just read this thing about,and basically it's positive
energy and negative energy, andyou put out a positive energy.
Yeah, I picked up on it rightaway.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
So I tell you, at the Shawshank thing I actually
crashed their party.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Oh, you did.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
I didn't get invited to the party.
I didn't get invited to theparty.
I didn't get invited to thedinner.
But you know what?
I just went in there and wentto this huge restaurant where,
after their show, they all went.
It was a couple hundred peoplein there and the people from the
film were in a little privateroom but the whole restaurant
was all the big wigs in the town, you know, they're all getting
(49:24):
a free dinner and drinks.
And I just walked in and I saidI want to talk to the director,
frank.
I heard he wants to talk to meand she goes.
Well, I don't see your name onthe list right here.
I said, look, I just want totalk to Frank.
He asked me to talk with him.
I'm not on the list.
Okay, I just want to talk toFrank and then I'll be out of
here.
So I just walked.
(49:45):
I just walked in there to Frank.
Frank tapped him on theshoulder Heard, you wanted to
talk to me.
I left him my, my, myinformation.
I walked out and then before Ileft, there was, everybody was
at tables and there was, therewas a long bar and there was
nobody at the bar.
So I thought, you know what.
I haven't anything to eat.
I'll probably just, you know,I'll get a beer.
I get a beer and then I'll gosomewhere and eat.
(50:08):
So I ordered a beer and I gohow much is it?
And the guy goes.
Well, it's an open bar and anopen menu.
You can not only have all youwant to drink, but whatever you
want to eat.
So and the cool thing about itwas he was a neat guy and he was
kind of, he was an artisticperson.
I sat there talking to him andall of a sudden somebody taps me
(50:29):
on the shoulder.
Look around.
Well, it's, it's the mayor.
Hi, I wanted to meet you.
Oh, my goodness.
Oh nice meeting you, mayor.
Thanks for coming over.
I'm sitting there drinking mybeer and then I ordered a little
shrimp appetizer.
He goes, can have the filet.
It's 60 dollars.
I go, I'm not, I'm not going totake advantage, I just have a
(50:49):
little.
I had a rare disease for sevenyears where I couldn't eat
hardly anything called cosmeaand I lived basically, uh, for
seven years on cottage cheeseand red grapes.
I could not eat or drink orsmell anything else because I
(51:10):
had this parosmia disease andthat was a time I contemplated
ending it.
Because you know, you sit inyour chair and everything tastes
or smells like one of threethings Burning fire.
So you're sitting in yourliving room hey, somebody leave
the stove on.
You know you're smelling a fire.
(51:32):
The other thing, burning flesh.
That's the second smell, andthen human feces, the three
things that you smell and taste.
I couldn't drive down thestreet where the restaurants
were.
I couldn't go into a grocerystore and when I was having a
(51:53):
dedication of a piece, like at auniversity or something, that
I'll be having a steak dinner,and they'd bring me out a plate
of cottage cheese and red grapes.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
Oh my gosh, I've never even heard of this.
Seven years I had that.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
And it just went away .
Speaker 1 (52:07):
I had to work through .
Speaker 2 (52:09):
It just went away Well here's what You've got
these smell sensors up herebetween your brain and your
sinus.
They look like little stamens ona flower, like that Okay, and
somehow that Okay, and somehowthat gets corrupted.
They don't know what happens ifa virus comes in and kills it,
(52:29):
or but it totally makes yourentire sense of taste and smell
corrupt.
You deal with that every minuteof every day and it's just.
I got to the point where I justwanted to end it, but I had too
much going on.
I couldn't do that.
But I finally had they saidwell, we can send you to this
(52:53):
one guy up in Nebraska.
He's the one guy in the countrythat does this operation.
He said but there's a 50-50chance that while they're in
there stripping out your smellsensors, that they're going to
puncture the membrane that'sbetween your sinuses and your
brain.
50-50 chance.
Oh my gosh, I can't do that.
(53:15):
And he goes.
The only other chance you haveis you may get nerve
regeneration.
It doesn't happen very often,but if you did, it would take
about seven years for thosenerves to regenerate, and it did
take seven years.
Now I can eat and drinkanything I want, so I'm happy
about that.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Well, I'm really glad that you are still here, I'm
really glad that you did not gowith those thoughts that you had
, and you know we can end ithere in a minute, but I just
wanted to say it sounds like,when you forced your way
basically, you found a way in togo into the Shawshank
(53:55):
Redemption dinner and youweren't invited that you have
spent your entire life goinginto places where you should
have belonged to begin with.
You know you found a way to getinto those places, but you were
meant to be there.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
Well, I don't know if I was meant to, but I was there
.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
Well, you know that is such a big message to
everybody, and I just wantanybody that's listening to take
this as a you know you can doit too.
You've got that 24 hours in theday and you can do it too.
You can show up and go toplaces and figure out how to
work your way in to be able tobe whatever you want to be in
life.
That's it.
(54:36):
But I just want to thank you somuch for being on Real Talk with
Tina and Ann.
I'm very thankful to have youon today.
Speaker 2 (54:44):
Thank you for being yourself and helping all the
people that you're helping Godbless you and thank you for also
your art really touches people.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
It touched me the moment I turned around and I saw
that piece that was in front ofme from Shawshank Redemption.
And I was just it wasmesmerizing.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
I think that's probably one of my best pieces.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
Wow, and I'm so glad I got to be in the presence of
that piece.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
And some guy in Oklahoma won that Really.
Yeah, some guy named Jason.
Oh okay, but he won thatsculpture.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
That's crazy that it went to somebody instead of it
being, like you know, somewherein a movie, museum or something.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Yeah, and then what happened was the director that I
went in Frank to see at theirdinner that I crashed their
party.
He said I want one of those forSpielberg.
Are you going to do that?
Well, we'll cast another one,let's see.
But the only reason I did thatin Mansfield was because I lived
(56:22):
there Seventh grade, sixthgrade, high school, okay.
And every industry that thattown was built on just shoved it
to the people there.
They did General Motors.
You drive out in Mansfieldthere's one area that's so
(56:43):
expansive you can't even see theend of it.
What is it?
Concrete slabs where they werebuilding cars.
And now the greedy, just likethe art world, the greedy need
more.
How about living for otherpeople?
How about living for yourfamily?
How about just living the lifeof a normal human being?
Speaker 1 (57:06):
That's why you're so successful, I believe and
success is defined differentlyby everybody, but I mean your
success is based on what?
Did you say?
That you want to be a great, beknown for being a great father
and grandfather and greatgrandfather.
I mean, that's where you liveand that's what's most important
to you.
Speaker 2 (57:25):
I didn't do it for myself.
I did it for my family.
My wife would sometimes say oh,you care about your career.
I don't even view myself ashaving a career.
Speaker 1 (57:34):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
I got one job to raise kids that make the right
decisions.
I never beat my kids.
I got beat to death because itdoesn't work.
You have to communicate withthem.
I'm just telling them you knowwhat?
I have one job as a father.
That's so that when you grow upyou can make right decisions
for yourself.
Speaker 1 (57:58):
And.
But you did give your kids andtheir kids more opportunities
than you had before.
You were able to create it foryourself.
I mean, you've really created agreat life for them.
Speaker 2 (58:10):
Isn't that what parents do?
Speaker 1 (58:13):
That's what you try to do.
Yeah, that's what we try to do,and I mean I adopted my two
kids when they were four andthree and my older two kids
they're in their 20s, one's justturned 30.
But then you know, I mean youdo everything that you can to
give them the best opportunities.
And you know, when they're fourand three, when you first meet
(58:37):
them, there's been a lot alreadyhappened in their life.
So you do the best that you canin our situation.
And then I didn't end up withmy one daughter's three kids,
which I'm and one was two monthswhen I got him and 18 months
was my daughter.
Now they're my kids because Iadopted them, and one was a
nonverbal four-year-old and allof them had autism and a lot of
(59:00):
disabilities.
But you know, they are mybiggest blessings and that's why
I do everything that I do.
God bless you and your kids.
Well, thank you so much, johnagain, and thank you for being
on Real Talk with Tina and Ann,and I will see you next time.
Okay, great.
world changers aren't pleasing everybody, they're
just not my artwork that'saround, that people see it.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
They, they're, they're, uh, they're motivated
by it.
You know they, they, they getenjoyment out of seeing it.
They, uh, it touches a part ofthem that maybe they didn't even
know it existed.
Because who goes and looks atart and goes, oh man, I look at
all art, I love, I love, I likeall art.
(00:48):
Uh, to me, if you're an artistand you can make a living in
this environment, more power toyou.
I always challenge myself to.
Even when I was a drummer, Itried not to play the same lick
twice in a night.
Everything clean, different.
And I tried to do that with myart too, that's so amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
How did you go from that kid that just got up there
on that stage and startedplaying to get the people in the
room to hear you and give youthe gig to who you became?
How did you get from that tothat?
Just keep doing that.
You just kept showing up.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
You just kept going up.
Be persistent.
Uh one what.
I've been married twice.
My first wife ran away with amotorcycle mechanic and my
second wife.
Now we're getting ready tocelebrate our 48th wedding
anniversary.
Oh, congratulations.
She's been with me all thattime.
She's helped me a lot.
She really has.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Having someone genuinely care and be in your
corner, because she came from areal family.
She came from a real family.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
You know, her uncle and aunt got killed in a car
wreck so her dad took in her twonieces, Okay, right, so five
kids in a two-bedroom apartmentraised them up, that kind of a
thing and they, you know theywere.
They were, uh, proud catholicsand very religious and, you know
, principled.
(02:19):
And her father, uh, was a greatguy.
He had a saying and I stillstick with it Always do what's
right and you can't go wrong.
Right, that's it.
I just keep that under my beltand whenever I'm in a situation
I think of that.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, you had a lot of wrong done to you with five
kids living in a basement.
As you start Six, oh, six kidsliving in a basement, you know I
mean you— A one-roomschoolhouse.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
That's not a big basement.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Who was living upstairs.
Can I ask, because I'm reallywondering.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
My dad was working three jobs.
One of those jobs was acarpenter and he was trying to
finish the upstairs so that wecould live upstairs.
But my mom ran around on him.
He never knew it.
Her and her boyfriend said hey,we got to get Archie that's my
dad's name, archie.
He's passed away now.
(03:19):
So she, we got to get Archieout of town.
So we can you know we can, wecan be free to party.
Let's get him a job overseas.
So they looked through thenewspaper.
They found a job for acarpenter in Thule, greenland,
building an Air Force base onthe Arctic Circle, for a year.
Sign up for a year.
(03:41):
You get twelve hundred dollarsa month, which in 1955 was a lot
of money.
It's three or four times whathe could make working three jobs
in Iowa.
So he went off for a year andwhen he got back, mom was gone,
the money was gone and the kidswere in the basement by
themselves.
Now what are we going to dowith them?
(04:01):
So that was the situation.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So that's how you ended up in the orphanage.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
That's how we ended up in the orphanage, because my
grandma took the baby, my oneaunt took the two girls and
nobody wanted the three boys.
So the three of you In the LynnCounty Iowa children's home,
formerly known as the home forthe friendless.
Oh my goodness, and that wasbad.
(04:28):
But you know what?
I broke the bank twice inMonopoly when I was at that
orphanage and they made us workoutside and do yard work and
stuff like that.
That place was the best lookingplace.
After I got done with it, do Ibelieve my thing is, my god, my
mother hated us.
(04:49):
Uh, when I was a drummer at 14,playing miami beach, I dragged
my drums into the house at twoin the morning and with all of
it there'd be a double sink withdishes piled up as far as you
could see, with a note on therethat said john, do these, or
else because nobody else woulddo it.
My older brother was a goldbrick.
(05:10):
He never did a damn thing.
I was on that did everything.
Because I, I was, I was superobedient.
I didn't want to get beaten.
I did whatever I had to do tonot get beaten.
But when I got in there Istarted doing those dishes.
I cleaned that whole kitchenspotless.
I was up like for two hours andI said, if I'm going to do it,
(05:32):
it's going to be the best thatcan be done, and that's just
kind of my attitude, whetherit's cleaning the floor,
painting a house or doing art orplaying music.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
You can't teach that.
I don't think, because thereare so many kids and people
today that really want thingsdone for them and they don't.
They want to get things forfree.
So you know, and what I reallylike about and I was exactly the
same way, I mean I was ascrapper, I mean I did
everything I could to make itand nobody.
(06:03):
I just go after the hustlebecause I learned really young
that I couldn't rely on anybodyIf I was going to do something,
be something, create something,I had to rely on myself and you
learned that really really youngas well.
So you were that little littlekid.
How old were you in thebasement when you were looking
(06:24):
at those world bookencyclopedias, would you say
Well, by then I was probably.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Well, let's see Catholic school, first grade six
.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Six years old, and you knew then that you wanted to
get in that book.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, I knew then Because I admired the artwork
that was in there so much that Iwanted to be with that group of
people.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
So you didn't start sculpting.
Until what year?
Was it 2000 or something likethat?
Speaker 2 (06:55):
I was 49 years old, I had my editing, so it was doing
really well.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Right, but I was just bored.
But I was just bored.
So I mean you held on to thoseimages in your head all those
years and it still was inside ofyou and you just wanted to
start creating that.
I mean, that's an absolutebeautiful story, it's just kind
of.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
You know the way I was born, I think I got the art
G.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
That's what I think Now you did say to me in a
conversation that unless youhave this absolute burning
desire inside of you to do this,don't even bother.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Well, yeah, because a lot of parents will ask me oh,
my son or my daughter, they wantto major in art, and you know,
at the University of so-and-so.
What do you think?
I think I tell them don't do it, because the art world, uh, and
the music world, you have tocreate your own clients.
Unless you've got this thing,like I like I've had my whole
(07:54):
life is burning inside.
You remember that movie alien,where that thing popped up out
of that guy?
Yeah, I've had that my wholelife, right in here, kind of
like pushing me.
You know, john, do something,get up, don't sit.
Make something, draw something,paint something, uh, build
something, uh.
When I was a kid I took thelawnmower in Iowa and I drove
(08:16):
the lawnmower around all thebushes out in the back by the
woods and I took scraps of uhsiding and made yield signs and
stop signs and I had my littlecar that I would drive around in
there.
I'm like six years old, sothat's kind of been in me all
this time.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I'm glad it is, because it's the only thing
that's helped me to survive, andyou know one of the other
things that I've heard you saythrough this whole entire thing
is that you want to create joyin other people.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yes, and the heaviness isn't that our purpose
for being here?
I say that all the time.
Isn't that our purpose?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
it absolutely is my purpose, yeah, and I feel, and I
had felt very young, that thatwas my purpose as well, and I
was silenced and silenced andtold many different ways that I
didn't matter or whatever.
And so you know, here I amdoing this podcast and I've done
different art and I've been ajournalist and different things,
(09:18):
and I really do believe thatwhen you come from those kind of
beginnings that we've got somuch pain within us to offer to
other people, which will turn itinto joy, you know, I mean, we
just offer such a differentperspective in life and we want
to show people the joy inside ofus instead of the pain that we
(09:42):
went through.
One of the things that Iwondered was do you take the
pain from your beginnings andput them into your art?
Put it into your art?
No, no, not at all.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
The artwork really isn't.
I don't view the artwork as anextension of myself.
I'm creating that specificthing.
It has its own life.
That's the art.
Once I create that one piece,it stands on its own.
And I just visited somerelatives in South Carolina
(10:16):
yesterday and took twosculptures that I had in my
warehouse to give to family asgifts.
Those people really appreciatedit.
A little sculpture of CliffordBrown, the trumpet player I left
with my nephew because he wasfrom a mixed family and he's the
(10:44):
only guy I ever knew that had aClifford Brown album because
his dad listened to CliffordBrown.
I said this guy needs thelittle maquette that won the
commission in Wilmington,delaware, my eight foot statue
of Clifford Brown.
But there you know, cliffordBrown, great musician, right up
my alley.
I'd love to.
I want to do a Hendrix.
That guy was fantastic.
Oh my gosh, you have to do that.
Want to do a Hendrix that guywas fantastic.
(11:08):
Oh my gosh, I want to do that.
You know I did a great Obamafor the Mecklenburg Democratic
Party.
Those people really inspire me.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
How in the world did you see, I don't know, did you
do other busts of people otherthan Dick Van Dyke, because I
found that picture of youstanding with him with his bust?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I was in the foundry in LA working on the Olympic
monument and Dick's kind of anartistic guy.
He knew the guy that owned thefoundry.
And the guy that owned thefoundry told him that hey, the
sculptor that's doing theOlympic thing is here.
So Dick Van Dyke actually camedown to meet me.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
That's amazing, and then that was it.
I mean, he asked you to do thatwhen he walked in.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I said oh my God, it's Dick Van Dyke.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
What's he doing here, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
First thing I said I'm going to tell everybody that
I just met Dick Van Dyke.
I'm going to tell everybody Ijust met the sculptor for the US
Olympic team.
That's how cool he was.
He's asked me if I didportraits.
I said yeah.
So I did that little portrait ofhim.
I took it to his and then I hadto before I did the casting.
(12:21):
I want to make sure that heliked the sculpture right, so
you can take pictures ofsculpture, but it doesn't really
.
You don't get the sense and thefeel of what it really is like.
So I thought you know what Igot, to put this thing on an
airplane and go out there andget his look out before I have
it cast.
I took that thing on anairplane, flew it out there,
went to his house.
(12:41):
He loved it and then we did thecasting and I delivered it to
his house in Malibu.
He invited me up there andshowed me around his little tiny
bungalow he lives in.
His wife was there.
When I got to his house he wasout on the street talking to
these little kids in the back ofa station wagon.
Hey, kids, what's going on?
(13:03):
Little Bobby, or whatever theirnames are, he's the nicest.
He's another person that I'vejust been honored just to meet.
I've admired that guy my wholelife.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Well, and I have as well, and he's in his 90s, you
know, and I mean he's just stillmoving and doing things.
And one of the best quotes thatI ever heard him say when they
asked him you know, why can youstill dance and do these things?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
You know, he's like you just got to keep moving and
man, I tell all my friends youknow I'm going to be 75 in a
month and all my friends, mostof them, are retired I go, what
are you retired for?
You got to keep moving.
Get off the couch.
One of my friends oh my God,I've aged so much since I saw
you two years ago.
I'm this and I'm that.
What are you doing with yourtime?
(13:52):
What do you do with your time?
Get a job.
I told them Get a job.
You got to stay busy or you'regoing to vegetate and just fade
away.
You want to do that, not me.
I'm not fading away, I'm goingout with a boom.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Well, the older we get, the more we know, the more
that we can give back to theworld.
And you know, it's really sadthat some people feel that
they've reached a certain ageand they're done.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah Well, when you've worked a job that you
really never liked.
I mean, I came in the 40-yearperiod where nobody ever really
got a raise.
That's the time that I grew up.
40 years you really did not gethardly much of a raise.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
The last ad agency I worked in before I started my
own ad agency.
We had nine art directors inthere and three of them got
fired.
And then there was a salaryfreeze.
Nobody was going to get a raisefor at least a year.
When they told me that, Iwalked into my boss's office and
I said I want a raise today orI will not be back tomorrow.
(15:00):
Okay, we just fired three guysand you're coming in here asking
for a raise.
I said yeah, who's your numberone producer?
Me.
Who's going to be doing alltheir work?
Me.
So I want a raise, and I want araise today or I'm not going to
come back tomorrow.
You'll have to find somebodyelse.
And Well, at the end of the dayhe came back and he goes.
(15:23):
I can't believe it.
The old man said okay.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
You are absolutely amazing.
I love your spirit.
How in the world did you landthe Olympic job?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
It was a senator from North Carolina that was the
biggest Olympic individualsponsor, I guess you know giving
them money, because he was atrack star at UNC Chapel Hill
before the Blacks were allowedin the college.
Okay, when Blacks were finallyallowed to come in, all those
(16:01):
records went by the wayside.
Yeah.
For finally allowed to come in,all those records went by the
wayside.
Yeah.
But he loved the amateur sportsand he wanted to.
He was a supporter of theOlympic Committee.
So they asked him to build anew strength training center out
there in Colorado Springs attheir training center.
And he called me up and he saidJohn, I want you to come out.
(16:22):
We're going to build a strengthtraining center.
I want you to do a sculpturefor the front of it.
I went out there.
This was a trip.
This guy's name is Erwin Belt.
I don't know if you ever heardof Belt Department Stores, but
there's mostly a southern store.
They have 300 and somedepartment stores.
Huge outfit, huge outfit.
(16:43):
I went out there.
We went over the building andwhat they wanted, and then they
said they wanted a sculpturewith the theme of spring.
So then they all took us todinner at the Broadmoor, which
is a historic, old, big money,old money hotel.
Now they're saying, okay, well,what can we come up with?
(17:04):
Here's what we thought about.
Would you like one guy on abench with a towel around his
neck because he just lifted aweight and another guy lifting a
weight?
Okay, well, that's okay.
I said you know what, though?
What do you think of when?
What's the one visual thatcomes to mind when you think
about strength?
To me, it's Atlas.
Right, hold up the universe.
(17:25):
How about we have an Atlasfigure instead of an Atlas?
We have four Olympic athletes,and we can have a female for the
Pan American games.
We can have a, anAfrican-American guy for the U S
Olympic team, we can have anancient Greek, which was the
original, and we can have theParalympics.
That's, that's it, that'sics,and they could be holding up the
(17:48):
world, holding the world up ontheir shoulders.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
That's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Is there anything you could do with the Olympic
federations?
I said, well, how many arethere?
45?
Yeah, I'll sculpt their logosand relief and run them around
the base of the sculpture.
I sculpted it out on a napkinand showed them that.
And so then the donor says well, john, how much do you think
that's going to cost?
(18:14):
Do you want to do it life-size?
I said life-size, that's MickeyMouse.
You can't do this life-size.
It has to be at least twicelife-size and it's probably
going to run you a little over amillion dollars.
So you know what the guy goes.
Let's do it.
Oh my gosh, everybody was allexcited here.
We had the thing and, uh, wehad our dinner and drinks.
(18:36):
And after the dinner and drinkshis oldest son came up to me
and he said um, you're spendingour inheritance.
I said what?
Yeah, you're spending ourinheritance.
Our dad's giving you all theseprojects.
You're spending our inheritance.
I said what's an inheritance?
He said, well, it's what youget left when your relative dies
(18:59):
.
I said, well, is your fatherstill alive?
Yeah, so then he goes.
He got.
When I said that, he got reallymad and he goes.
I could go out right now andget a dozen guys that do what
you do, right, just like that,oh my gosh.
And I said well, you know,you're probably right, you could
find a lot of guys out therethat could do what I'm doing.
(19:20):
Can I?
Can I ask you a question?
Okay, have you ever been torome?
Yeah, I.
Have you ever been to thevatican?
Yeah, I've been to the vatican.
Have you ever been to theVatican?
Yeah, I've been to the Vatican.
Have you ever been to theSistine Chapel and seen that
beautiful ceiling in there?
Oh, yeah, I've been there.
I said who painted that?
He goes, well, everybody knowsthat Michelangelo.
(19:41):
I said, okay, now, who put upthe money for the painting?
Which pope?
Really, what I've learned isI've actually saved that family
millions because this guy washiring all these top level,
world-renowned sculptors just todo mediocre stuff.
But hire the best, yeah, yeahso.
(20:05):
But you know, the thing is, Isaved them millions of dollars
Because I didn't care aboutmaking a fortune.
I told my wife I think my onemistake was that my goal in life
was not to become rich.
I don't care about money.
We were so poor.
My dad got his suit that hewore on Sunday at the rescue
(20:31):
mission in Mansfield, ohio.
I don't care about my kind ofserial things, they don't mean a
thing to me.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
And did you get that $2 drum that you wanted?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah, well here's what happened that $2 drum.
I used to walk by there all thetime because my grandma's guest
house was right in downtown StPetersburg.
We lived in grandma's guesthouse for a couple of months and
then mom kicked grandma hairdown the steps, kicked an
80-year-old woman down theflight of steps that went up to
the garage apartment.
So grandma's hair threw us outof there.
(21:03):
We went out to the boondocks ofSt Petersburg where the streets
were just sand and the opensewer was running right in front
of your house, out where nobodylived.
And my next door neighbor had asandwich shop and it was going
to be the 4th of July parade andhe said, john, if you come down
and sell sandwiches out thereon the sidewalk, well, I'll pay
(21:26):
you $2.
You can get your grum.
I said, okay, I'll do that.
So there I was.
Sandwiches, hot Cubansandwiches.
Ladies and gentlemen, get themwhile they're hot, 25 cents
right here, hot Cuban sandwiches.
So after the parade was over andI saw those drummers march by,
he gave me the money.
I ran down to the music storeand I said I'm ready to get the
drum.
I dumped all the change out onthe counter and the guy counted
(21:52):
and he goes you're like 35 centsshort.
I said that guy stiffed me andI looked around when I noticed,
when I came in the door, on hiswindow it said St Pete music, I
think.
But it was that gold leaflettering it was peeling.
I said you know what?
I don't have the money, but I'man artist and I could repaint
your sign for you and you keepthe money.
I'll repaint your sign and justlet me have the drum for the
(22:12):
summer.
He goes okay, deal.
So I got that and I thought, no,how do I do that?
So I found a little sign shopand the guy in there was nice
enough to take thisnine-year-old kid.
Give him a brush that was aproper brush for sign painting.
Give him a brush that was theproper brush for sign painting.
(22:33):
Tell me how to prepare theglass.
Gave me the.
Gave me the, the metallic paint.
Uh, so that guy helped me andthat was my first freelance job.
And then, um, when I got to ohio, there was a dairy queen down
the street.
I did all their posters withthe big ice cream going and a
bananas, and I said I don't wantany money.
Just, you know, give me a tab,as I did my friends from junior
(22:53):
high school.
Hey, let's go get some icecream.
I don't have any money, it's onme.
Come on, banana split, it's onme.
You know, I'd take my friendsout there.
We'd get a free ice cream.
And even while I was in college, I hardly ever paid for a meal,
because I always ate at placeswhere I'd say, hey, you need a
new menu, I'll design it for you.
Hey, you need posters?
Up there, one guy was doing hisown condiments.
(23:16):
I'll do your label for yourproduct.
I'll do your logo, I'll put iton the window.
So anything.
Just like my first two years incollege, I don't think I ever
paid for a meal.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
So that's amazing.
I mean, you just always werethinking outside of the box.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
And you know, when I was in Columbus Ohio, I didn't
really have anything, didn'tknow anybody, and I just drive
around and hey, there's a brickwall over there that had a thing
painted on it and it's all gonebad.
I'm going to go in and tellthat guy let's repaint that, if
you don't like that one, we'llput a different one up there.
That's what I did Freelanceprojects, because nobody's going
(23:55):
to come and knock on your doorwhen they don't know who you are
and you don't have a door.
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
So you got to go out there and hustle.
What did the no's do for you?
Because I know that noteverybody said yes.
I mean there had to be no'salong the way.
I got a lot of those, and didthey ever beat you down?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
No, not really.
I just I didn't take it.
I'm not going to stand for that.
If you're going to put me downand do that kind of stuff, I'm
not going to deal with youeither professionally or get a
job working for you.
I'm not going to do it.
You're more important to methan I am to you.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
There you go, I mean.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I was just going to say you believed in yourself.
Well, I had to.
That's all I got Right.
You come to the realizationthat you basically are totally
on your own.
What are you going to do?
That's all you got on your own.
What are you going to do?
That's all you got.
You can only work with what youhave or what you're going to
develop in yourself.
That's going to make you moremarketable.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Right and, if I remember right, you told me you
were like 16 years old when yourealized.
That's it I have to do thislife by myself.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, I was playing my drums all over Miami and
going to high school and my momcame up, was going to hit me
with a baseball bat and I saidyou know what?
That is the end of thepunishment.
You will never hit me again,you will never strike me again.
I grabbed that bat, threw itout.
(25:28):
After that she never botheredme.
Just the way it is.
You know, you got to make itbetter for yourself and you want
to make it better for yourselfby doing good, good things, not
bad things.
You know, don't go out andsteal the worst thing in my life
a thief.
I have been robbed at gunpoint.
I have been robbed at gunpoint.
(25:49):
I have been robbed at knifepoint.
I sat in the back of a car witha carpet knife and a
switchblade on my neck, likethat in San Francisco, where I
went for an audition with DaveMason, a famous musician.
I thought I was going to die inthat freight yard down there.
But here I am.
I recognize, you know what.
I'm in the backseat of a carlike this with a knife on my
(26:11):
neck.
I realize I only had one weaponthis.
And then we're black.
I'm a junkie man.
I need a fix.
You got money.
We're junkies, we gotta have afix.
All I had was $2 on me.
I was going for an audition.
I on me, I was going for anaudition.
(26:31):
I didn't drive my van, I washitchhiking because the clutch
was going out.
I was like in San Francisco,trying to go up these hills with
no clutch.
So I just started talking.
You know, this was my weapon.
I talked about Jimi Hendrix,the Isley brothers, little
Richard.
I played with them, everyperson of color that I knew.
And finally the one guy goeshey, man, you know he didn't
have anything, let's let him go.
The guy goes okay, man, we'regoing to let you go, but you
(26:54):
turn your head as much as oneinch, I'm going to come back and
cut you, cut you.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
My gosh.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So they drove me to a freight yard in San Francisco.
But now it's like one or two inthe morning, we let you go,
francisco.
But now it's like one or two inthe morning, we let you go and
the guys.
So finally the other guy goes.
I think he's still holding outon us.
He pulls out his carpet knifeagain and then that switchblade
again.
I thought, okay, this and youknow, they say that your life
flashes before your eyes.
Right, yeah, that did thatactually happened, just like
(27:26):
that in a second.
Everything.
You really thought you weregonna die.
This is the end of john hair,down here in this freight yard
and that's, that's just going tobe the end of it.
But uh, I said, okay, there'snothing I can do.
I don't have any money.
I'll take you to berkeley ifyou want.
I'll stay with my friend overthere, see if we can get you
some heroin.
There's nothing I can do, so dowhat you're gonna do.
(27:47):
So I told them you're gonnakill me.
Kill me, if not, just let me go.
So they let me go.
And uh, it was one of those oldcars where the two the seat up
in front pull forward.
Then you could step out of theback seat.
Just a two right right, there'smy foot, hit the ground, bam in
the back of my head with a winebottle and I went like red
(28:08):
black, red black, red black andI was out.
I woke up.
I don't know how much later itwas, it was still dark and I had
to laugh because the irony ofit was the only way I could get
back to Berkeley was hitchhike,and that's how I got in this
mess.
So I had to find my way fromthis freight yard down over to
(28:31):
the book, the Bay Bridge,oakland Bay Bridge.
I finally got on the bridge.
It's like four in the morning,dark.
All these cars are whizzing by.
I'm dressed like Jimi Hendrix.
I got all this flashy clotheson.
My drumsticks are sticking inmy boot.
You know I got blood.
My hair's all matted with bloodrunning down my face and on my
shirt.
I'm out there hitchhiking.
(28:52):
Nobody's stopping.
Finally this black Mercedespulls in.
Hey, where are you going?
I said Berkeley.
Okay, hop in, we'll give you aride.
So I hopped in and this couplehad been doing all night cocaine
thing.
I think he had a sports coach,he had a fox, stole one, and
they never said one word to meafter that, just where you know,
where do you want us to dropyou off?
(29:13):
It was like oh, did you hearwhat John said to Bill?
I couldn't believe that.
And did you see that dressSusan was wearing strictly last
season?
Let me out of here.
I got back to Berkeley.
I threw my drums in the van.
The guy goes well, what aboutyour audition?
I go.
I wouldn't live in SanFrancisco if you paid me a
million dollars.
(29:34):
I'm out of here.
Yeah, back to Vegas, which iswhere I was working, waiting for
the band Sugarloaf to come.
I was their drummer for thesummer and they had some kind of
complications with being inrehab or something like that.
So I never got that gig.
And when I got back to Vegas, mywife and the baby were gone and
(29:56):
there was a note there John momwanted me to bring the baby
back for Christmas.
I'll see you in a few weeks.
And a few weeks went by and amonth went by and weeks more
went by and I called my buddy inMansfield Ohio and I said hey,
can you just go down and seewhat's going on?
Uh, my wife's living down thereand her parents of uh with her
parents, with our, with our baby.
He called me back and he goes.
(30:18):
Well, her parents don't livethere anymore.
She's like that, shacked upwith some bike.
A biker guy oh my gosh.
Oh, now, uh, now I gotta driveback to ohio and take care of
all this, which I had a coupleof jobs I was doing.
I was doing like light shows forclubs while I was trying to
make money and stay alive inVegas I was waiting for this
(30:39):
other band and so I dropped back53 hours straight to Ohio and
we had this front doors and allthe Ohio style door with a
window in the front, with thecurtain.
She comes like this wait aminute, comes out and hands me
an envelope Manila envelope andI said what's this?
She goes, we're divorced.
(30:59):
I said we can't be divorced inOhio.
You have to wait a year.
Well, I told the judge that youabandoned me.
Wow, okay.
And then he, so he gave you adivorce.
Well, I've been sleeping withthe guy.
And the judge was a friend of awas.
It was a father of a goodfriend of mine from high school.
(31:21):
So that's that.
I said, okay, I left that place.
Uh, as I left, I I kicked a bigHarley motorcycle off the porch
through the railing, into theconcrete driveway, and I never
saw her again after that.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
You have really been through it.
What made you?
I'm still seeing that kid washolding the grabbing the
baseball bat and saying you arenever going to hurt me again.
I mean that really took a lotto be able to do that and for
your mom to listen to you.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Well her?
Her answer was oh yeah, well,you can.
Just, you're going to startpaying rent.
You're going to start payingrent because you're playing in
the band.
You're making pretty good moneyfor a high school kid.
I said, you know what?
I'll go live with my bassplayer before I'll pay you rent.
So she didn't.
I stayed there, but you know,after that I couldn't take it
(32:18):
anymore.
I left there and went to Ohioand moved in with my dad and
studied fine art at Ohio Stateand then dropped out of there
during the Vietnam thing andjust, I worked at, I was an art
director at a local Columbuscable TV station and I played my
music at night while I wasstill going to art school and
(32:39):
I'd be in the basement of theseclubs with three cartons of beer
stacked up with a light bulb ona chain, with my art history
book, doing my studies downthere.
So I just you know, here's thething.
There's only one way thathumans are equal.
Okay, you have 24 hours in yourday.
(33:02):
What are you doing with your 24hours?
When I first started sculpting,people said you're john, you're
50, you're 50 years old, you'regonna start a new career, are
you gonna?
Are you gonna compete with.
These guys have been doing ittheir whole lives.
I said you know what?
I got 24 hours in my?
I get eight hours to sleep and16 hours to work, and the first
(33:26):
nine years that I was inbusiness I never took one day
off.
I worked 12 to 16 hours everyday and that's how I built up
that tremendous body of work.
That's how I did it.
So that's what I tell people.
People go man, I could havebeen a great artist.
What are you doing with your 24hours?
I encourage them.
If you want to do art, do art.
(33:46):
I know you have a job.
You probably had to raise afamily and all that.
But here's what you do get aspot in your house.
That's going to be your littlestudio.
Just think it's a desk, allright in the garage, it's in the
spare room, wherever.
Get yourself, set up all yourart supplies there and then,
like on Saturday morning, fromnine to noon, you're going to do
(34:07):
your art.
Get started doing your art andafter you do that, you're going
to start seeing results.
You're going to start seeingthat you're producing stuff.
You're going to start feelinggood about it.
You're going to start feelinggood about yourself and putting
more time into that where,gradually, if you totally
(34:28):
embrace that thing, then that'llbe your career.
What do you do in your 24 hours.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I love that because I have the same philosophy and I
too.
I see so many people sittingaround on their phones or doing,
you know, all the things thataren't productive when we can
put down our phones, and wecould be so much more productive
in our days, but I think somany things have robbed us today
(34:55):
from being able to do that yourdays and your nights.
Yeah, before we go, you saidthat you played also with Little
Richard.
Could you talk about that?
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Yeah, Richard, he was a trip.
My band played with him at theWhiskey A.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Go-Go in LA.
I've been there, I know thatplace.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
And they left there and came back to Miami.
And it was several years laterand Richard came to Miami and
called us up hey man, come downand see me.
So we went down to his hotel.
He had a big suite and hiscousin Candy opened the door.
Who was the head of hisentourage?
There was about 12 people inthis suite and Richard says I
(35:42):
want to play you all my new song.
I think it was Good Gosh,almighty or something like that.
And he picked up a guitar.
I didn't know Richard evenplayed guitar, I thought he was
just a piano player.
So he goes into the bedroom,lays out with his feet out
straight on the bed, he's gothis guitar and he's playing this
song and they're all around thebed like this, kneeled on the
(36:03):
floor, you know, and whenRichard spoke, nobody spoke.
He's like the Inca or the AztecI speak, you do not speak, okay
.
So he's in there playing a songand all these people are
kneeling around the bed andJimmy and I are just standing
over, kind of in the doorwaylistening to the song and the
(36:26):
phone rings goes John, john,john, get the phone.
He always went like that getthe phone, get the phone.
So I went over.
I go.
This is Paul McCartney he'srich.
Paul McCartney.
Oh my god, yeah, let me, let meget him for you, so I run out
of your Richard.
Richard Paul McCartney's on thephone, wants to talk to you.
He goes, tell him to wait aminute.
I'm playing my song.
I said okay, so me and Jimmywe'll talk to Paul McCartney for
(36:51):
five minutes or so.
So we were just chatting withPaul and he goes, could you ask
him again?
I said okay, so I went in.
Richard Paul McCartney's beenon the phone for five minutes.
I said tell him to wait aminute.
I made the.
I made the Beatles.
I made the Beatles, which hedid because they hit it big when
they were touring with him inGermany.
Okay, so anyway, this guy madePaul McCartney wait on the phone
(37:14):
and this was a transatlanticphone call Back then it was a
lot of money Made him wait 15minutes.
And finally I went in and Isaid Richard, paul McCartney has
been waiting on the phone for15 minutes.
Are you going to talk to him?
He goes, tell him I'll call himback.
Wow, yeah, there's a guy whocan make one of the Beatles wait
(37:40):
on the phone for 15 minutes andthen not even talk to him.
So then he asked me to be hisgroomer.
I thought, no man, I can't doit because he's too flighty, you
know, and at that time he hadlike a $500 a day cocaine habit
and I've never been in cocainebecause it was just way too
expensive for me man what astory.
(38:01):
I mean, you have so many stories?
Oh, I have a lot of stories,that's true.
I'm doing a book.
Okay, all right, talk aboutthat.
I've got.
I've done a hundred and I'mcoming up on 170 public art
commissions.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Okay, and.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
I'm sitting at out at my son's house with my grandson
, who's six years old, and hepoints me.
He goes old, old, old and Ithought you know what I'm going
to do?
A book, because I want mygrandkids and my great grandkids
and everybody else in thisfamily what your grandpa did.
(38:38):
Right, I've got and I'm alreadyover 200 pages and I'm not even
through half of my stuff yet,because I'm going to show big,
beautiful color pictures now areyou doing the drumming too?
Speaker 1 (38:50):
I went to, I went to an audition.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I was just some guys called me.
I said, hey, I'm on yourwebsite.
See you play with jimmyhendrickson.
You're in north carolina now.
Yeah, uh, would you want tocome and play with us?
Uh, we're in huntersville andthere's a studio and we'd like
you to come and play just for acouple hours.
I said, well, I, I was close, Ilived pretty close.
I said, okay, I'll do that.
So I went down there and thefirst thing I said was okay, you
(39:13):
know what?
I haven't sat down in a set ofdrums in about five years.
So just, can we start off easy?
Why do they start off with ledzeppelin?
I thought I was gonna have aheart attack.
I was like you didn't like that, but I, I, I got on top of it.
I played it just fantastic.
And when that song was done andthey were good, they were good
(39:34):
players the guitar player goesman, we got us a real drummer.
Now we got us a real drummer.
So I did that for two hours.
I felt so good when I walked outof there my whole body was
vibrating because I got to justbeat those drums for two hours.
I just loved it.
And then I'm driving home and Ithought I used to be able to
(39:58):
listen to a drum lick one timeand then I could play it Just
another drummer.
I didn't do that this time.
There was a couple of songsthat I couldn't get the part and
what I realized was it wasn'tthat I couldn't hear it or
understand how to do it, Icouldn't remember it a minute
later.
That happened to me about threetimes and I thought you know
(40:20):
what, you must be losing yourshort-term memory.
And that's kind of when I gotdown and said they asked me to
come back and play again and Isaid no, I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
I think you're being a little hard on yourself too,
though I mean, I don't know, I'msure it still sounded amazing.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
No, matter what.
Oh man, we played for two hours.
I just, I just laid it down,man, I felt so good.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
I mean, even when you were done, they said that they
found a real drummer.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah they liked me, I could have gone
back there.
I could have gone back andgotten that band, but I don't
know, kind of busy doing thisother stuff right now, maybe
when I'm 80, I'll do that.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
You still are now.
You're playing it into your 80s, so that's fantastic.
I hope I'm here.
I think that you do more in oneday than a lot of people do in
a week.
Well, you know what?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
My wife is a movie lover.
She sits around the living roomall night.
Let's watch a movie, let'swatch a movie, let's watch.
I said you know what?
I don't want to spend the restof my life watching movies.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
I want to go out and do stuff that people make movies
about Exactly.
Let's do that with our time.
You know, I said movies aboutother people.
Other people have told me bywatching my life that they are
tired.
You know, because we were in 16states this summer and we just
go and do and I want toexperience and I want to have my
kids be exposed to as manythings as they possibly can, and
(41:48):
I want to get up and I want tobe creative and I want to go to
bed and I'm just thinking andI'm just what can I write down?
What can I do next?
And that's what inspires me.
That's what moves me forwardevery single day.
That's what gets me.
That's what moves me forwardevery single day.
That's what gets me up in themorning, and if other people are
tired, then let them go to bed.
That's it.
That's it, yeah, yeah.
(42:08):
Well, you know, I am so blessedand grateful that I walked past
you that day, and then I walkedpast you again that day and
started the conversation withyou.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
I'm honored that I even know you.
What you've done with your lifeis nothing.
I can't compare to that.
Oh my gosh, john, I mean Iadmire you.
As far as I'm concerned, I'mjust you know, this little guy
over here.
What you've done is totallyamazing Taught yourself, because
nobody would teach you.
(42:40):
Wow, I'm just proud to be yourfriend.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
I hope we are friends .
We are friends and I reallythank you for that because you
know, when I was that little kidagain, just like you, I mean, I
was battered down and here Iwas this kid that wasn't able to
really learn and I had allthese disabilities and things,
and so I was this kid thatwasn't able to really learn and
I had all these disabilities andthings, and so I did.
They even said that I probablywouldn't even graduate high
(43:08):
school and then I ended up justgetting a hold of a tape
recorder, because you know, I'mold and I got a hold of a tape
recorder and then I would talkinto it, I would read into it
and the words were even messedup, but I would do my best
reading into this tape recorder.
I would read into it and thewords were even messed up, but I
would do my best reading intothis tape recorder, I would
listen to it, I would write itdown, I would take notes, I
would remember enough to retainenough to take a test to get a C
(43:29):
maybe, and I just did that allthe way to a master's degree,
you know, and I just decidedthat young, that nobody was
going to define me and tell methat I wasn't able to do
something, so you can relatewith that.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I can, I can.
They're still telling me thatand I'm still doing my stuff.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Well, please keep me informed with what's going on in
your life.
And also, you know I want toread that book.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Okay, well, if I can ever get it done.
I met a guy named Paul Sorvino.
He's a movie actor.
He played in Goodfellas.
You know that guy, I do and hewas a sculptor and he called me
asking for help.
So we kind of became friends.
He asked me if I wanted to bein this movie he was doing in
New York and I said, yeah, Idon't have to learn any lines,
(44:16):
do I?
He said no, just like, do awalk across.
I said what's that?
And he goes.
You know, when they open ascene, somebody kind of walks
across and the camera zooms inon the action.
Yeah, yeah, I'll do that.
So I went up there.
We were filming at this old,abandoned hospital.
It was during the middle of thenight and we went back to his
(44:36):
house after the shoot.
He wanted me to see his littlesculpture studio that he had
just built.
He told me his life stories.
We're sitting around hiskitchen table at four in the
morning drinking coffee.
I told him about my life story.
He goes oh my God, john, that'sa movie, that's at least a
documentary or something.
He said you've got to write ascreenplay.
(44:57):
He says write a book.
He says no, don't write a book,write a screenplay.
I said why do I write a?
Write a script.
He says write a book.
I says no, don't write a book,write a screenplay.
I said why?
Why do I write a screenplay?
Just take that little scriptthat you've been carrying around
in your pocket, that I gave you, use that for your model and
then write your, write yourstory.
So I started, and at this timewe were taking care of my wife's
father who was bedridden, so Ihad, I, I just started writing
(45:41):
these little chapters.
You know a little piece of mylife here.
And then this happened.
That happened and I wrote itall and I, by the time I got
through a lot of it.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
I was so depressed that I just I didn't want to
finish it.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
And I said well, Paul , what's going to happen to you
in the movie?
I got to die, but there's somuch hope in your story.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
It never happened, but I still got those stories
and I don't know if I want torelive those.
But you know, some of thethings that we've done on the
podcast is talk about some ofthose hurtful things and we go
and we, we, yeah, we revisit andit is very difficult to revisit
those times, but I do thinkthat they it gives other people
hope and it gives them you know,the people that are actually
living in it or they feel as ifthey can't move forward from
whatever moment in time thatthey're in.
(46:16):
It shows them that they can sureso I don't know, maybe you will
still have a movie about yourlife someday.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Well, if they do, nobody's going to know all the
people in the movie they'regoing to go.
Who's Jimi Hendrix?
They're still saying that now.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Oh well, there's still enough of us around that
know who he is.
I think, and I don't know.
I mean, he forged a path for alot of people, so I hope that we
don't forget about him.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Oh, I don't think we'll ever.
If we do, it's a sad moment forthe whole planet.
Oh, absolutely Fantastic, andyou, you're a moment for the
planet.
Seriously, thank you for whatyou're doing.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
I'm sure you're helping a lot of people with
these podcasts and you know it'sthat burning that you talked
about and I've always had thatburning to be able to tell
stories of other people and beable to get it out either by
writing or broadcasting.
And my first classes in collegewere in broadcasting and I,
just like we said you know youand I had a conversation before
(47:38):
where sometimes our roads don'talways go.
It's not a straight road andyou never know where you're
going to end up, but you have tobe open to wherever those roads
lead.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
Yeah, and you can't sit around waiting for
opportunities.
You have to go out and makeyour own.
You do.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Absolutely yeah.
I've spent the last few weeksjust showing up at places and
making things happen, and thatis proof of what your life, what
you have done.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Tom Petty had a song where he said I have just one
light.
That's the way most peopleshould be, in my opinion.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Well, our lights, kind of, you know, passed and so
I'm very thankful that I'mtelling you.
When you were there, and at onepoint I saw you just walking
around with a cup of coffee andI'm just like he's interesting,
I'm going to talk to him.
So I'm glad that I did, I'mvery thankful.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
You know I don't know what it is, but I get that a
lot.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Yeah, but you kind of put out this energy.
You know, I don't think thatyou realize.
I just read this thing about,and basically it's positive
energy and negative energy, andyou put out a positive energy.
Yeah, I picked up on it rightaway.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
So I tell you, at the Shawshank thing I actually
crashed their party.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Oh, you did.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
I didn't get invited to the party.
I didn't get invited to theparty.
I didn't get invited to thedinner.
But you know what?
I just went in there and wentto this huge restaurant where,
after their show, they all went.
It was a couple hundred peoplein there and the people from the
film were in a little privateroom but the whole restaurant
was all the big wigs in the town, you know, they're all getting
(49:24):
a free dinner and drinks.
And I just walked in and I saidI want to talk to the director,
frank.
I heard he wants to talk to meand she goes.
Well, I don't see your name onthe list right here.
I said, look, I just want totalk to Frank.
He asked me to talk with him.
I'm not on the list.
Okay, I just want to talk toFrank and then I'll be out of
here.
So I just walked.
(49:45):
I just walked in there to Frank.
Frank tapped him on theshoulder Heard, you wanted to
talk to me.
I left him my, my, myinformation.
I walked out and then before Ileft, there was, everybody was
at tables and there was, therewas a long bar and there was
nobody at the bar.
So I thought, you know what.
I haven't anything to eat.
I'll probably just, you know,I'll get a beer.
I get a beer and then I'll gosomewhere and eat.
(50:08):
So I ordered a beer and I gohow much is it?
And the guy goes.
Well, it's an open bar and anopen menu.
You can not only have all youwant to drink, but whatever you
want to eat.
So and the cool thing about itwas he was a neat guy and he was
kind of, he was an artisticperson.
I sat there talking to him andall of a sudden somebody taps me
(50:29):
on the shoulder.
Look around.
Well, it's, it's the mayor.
Hi, I wanted to meet you.
Oh, my goodness.
Oh nice meeting you, mayor.
Thanks for coming over.
I'm sitting there drinking mybeer and then I ordered a little
shrimp appetizer.
He goes, can have the filet.
It's 60 dollars.
I go, I'm not, I'm not going totake advantage, I just have a
(50:49):
little.
I had a rare disease for sevenyears where I couldn't eat
hardly anything called cosmeaand I lived basically, uh, for
seven years on cottage cheeseand red grapes.
I could not eat or drink orsmell anything else because I
(51:10):
had this parosmia disease andthat was a time I contemplated
ending it.
Because you know, you sit inyour chair and everything tastes
or smells like one of threethings Burning fire.
So you're sitting in yourliving room hey, somebody leave
the stove on.
You know you're smelling a fire.
(51:32):
The other thing, burning flesh.
That's the second smell, andthen human feces, the three
things that you smell and taste.
I couldn't drive down thestreet where the restaurants
were.
I couldn't go into a grocerystore and when I was having a
(51:53):
dedication of a piece, like at auniversity or something, that
I'll be having a steak dinner,and they'd bring me out a plate
of cottage cheese and red grapes.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
Oh my gosh, I've never even heard of this.
Seven years I had that.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
And it just went away .
Speaker 1 (52:07):
I had to work through .
Speaker 2 (52:09):
It just went away Well here's what You've got
these smell sensors up herebetween your brain and your
sinus.
They look like little stamens ona flower, like that Okay, and
somehow that Okay, and somehowthat gets corrupted.
They don't know what happens ifa virus comes in and kills it,
(52:29):
or but it totally makes yourentire sense of taste and smell
corrupt.
You deal with that every minuteof every day and it's just.
I got to the point where I justwanted to end it, but I had too
much going on.
I couldn't do that.
But I finally had they saidwell, we can send you to this
(52:53):
one guy up in Nebraska.
He's the one guy in the countrythat does this operation.
He said but there's a 50-50chance that while they're in
there stripping out your smellsensors, that they're going to
puncture the membrane that'sbetween your sinuses and your
brain.
50-50 chance.
Oh my gosh, I can't do that.
(53:15):
And he goes.
The only other chance you haveis you may get nerve
regeneration.
It doesn't happen very often,but if you did, it would take
about seven years for thosenerves to regenerate, and it did
take seven years.
Now I can eat and drinkanything I want, so I'm happy
about that.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Well, I'm really glad that you are still here, I'm
really glad that you did not gowith those thoughts that you had
, and you know we can end ithere in a minute, but I just
wanted to say it sounds like,when you forced your way
basically, you found a way in togo into the Shawshank
(53:55):
Redemption dinner and youweren't invited that you have
spent your entire life goinginto places where you should
have belonged to begin with.
You know you found a way to getinto those places, but you were
meant to be there.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
Well, I don't know if I was meant to, but I was there
.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
Well, you know that is such a big message to
everybody, and I just wantanybody that's listening to take
this as a you know you can doit too.
You've got that 24 hours in theday and you can do it too.
You can show up and go toplaces and figure out how to
work your way in to be able tobe whatever you want to be in
life.
That's it.
(54:36):
But I just want to thank you somuch for being on Real Talk with
Tina and Ann.
I'm very thankful to have youon today.
Speaker 2 (54:44):
Thank you for being yourself and helping all the
people that you're helping Godbless you and thank you for also
your art really touches people.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
It touched me the moment I turned around and I saw
that piece that was in front ofme from Shawshank Redemption.
And I was just it wasmesmerizing.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
I think that's probably one of my best pieces.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
Wow, and I'm so glad I got to be in the presence of
that piece.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
And some guy in Oklahoma won that Really.
Yeah, some guy named Jason.
Oh okay, but he won thatsculpture.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
That's crazy that it went to somebody instead of it
being, like you know, somewherein a movie, museum or something.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Yeah, and then what happened was the director that I
went in Frank to see at theirdinner that I crashed their
party.
He said I want one of those forSpielberg.
Are you going to do that?
Well, we'll cast another one,let's see.
But the only reason I did thatin Mansfield was because I lived
(56:22):
there Seventh grade, sixthgrade, high school, okay.
And every industry that thattown was built on just shoved it
to the people there.
They did General Motors.
You drive out in Mansfieldthere's one area that's so
(56:43):
expansive you can't even see theend of it.
What is it?
Concrete slabs where they werebuilding cars.
And now the greedy, just likethe art world, the greedy need
more.
How about living for otherpeople?
How about living for yourfamily?
How about just living the lifeof a normal human being?
Speaker 1 (57:06):
That's why you're so successful, I believe and
success is defined differentlyby everybody, but I mean your
success is based on what?
Did you say?
That you want to be a great, beknown for being a great father
and grandfather and greatgrandfather.
I mean, that's where you liveand that's what's most important
to you.
Speaker 2 (57:25):
I didn't do it for myself.
I did it for my family.
My wife would sometimes say oh,you care about your career.
I don't even view myself ashaving a career.
Speaker 1 (57:34):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
I got one job to raise kids that make the right
decisions.
I never beat my kids.
I got beat to death because itdoesn't work.
You have to communicate withthem.
I'm just telling them you knowwhat?
I have one job as a father.
That's so that when you grow upyou can make right decisions
for yourself.
Speaker 1 (57:58):
And.
But you did give your kids andtheir kids more opportunities
than you had before.
You were able to create it foryourself.
I mean, you've really created agreat life for them.
Speaker 2 (58:10):
Isn't that what parents do?
Speaker 1 (58:13):
That's what you try to do.
Yeah, that's what we try to do,and I mean I adopted my two
kids when they were four andthree and my older two kids
they're in their 20s, one's justturned 30.
But then you know, I mean youdo everything that you can to
give them the best opportunities.
And you know, when they're fourand three, when you first meet
(58:37):
them, there's been a lot alreadyhappened in their life.
So you do the best that you canin our situation.
And then I didn't end up withmy one daughter's three kids,
which I'm and one was two monthswhen I got him and 18 months
was my daughter.
Now they're my kids because Iadopted them, and one was a
nonverbal four-year-old and allof them had autism and a lot of
(59:00):
disabilities.
But you know, they are mybiggest blessings and that's why
I do everything that I do.
God bless you and your kids.
Well, thank you so much, johnagain, and thank you for being
on Real Talk with Tina and Ann,and I will see you next time.
Okay, great.
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