February 26, 2025 • 60 mins
Can a children's book change a life? In this inspiring episode, author Sasha Saidman reveals how stories about adoption, differences, and self-acceptance meet kids exactly where they are—sparking empathy, imagination, and confidence. From celebrating adoptive families to embracing learning differences like dyslexia, Sasha’s books empower young readers to see their unique stories reflected on every page.
🎧 Listen now and discover why her books belong on every child's shelf!
Join us as we welcome cherished children's author Sasha Saidman, who opens up about the heartfelt inspiration behind her impactful children's book, "First Day, an adoption story." Sasha's inclusive approach avoids specific details, allowing every family to see their unique adoption journey reflected in her narrative. With personal stories woven throughout, Sasha gives us a glimpse into the special moments that define chosen families, making this episode a must-listen for anyone touched by adoption.
Sasha dives into the intricacies of open adoption, recounting tender stories that highlight the selflessness of birth parents and the deep connections formed through openness. We share intimate experiences about the ongoing supportive relationships that can provide adoptees with a sense of belonging and security. The conversation does not shy away from the emotional complexities of adoption, addressing everything from DNA tests and unanswered questions to the beauty of creating a safe environment for children to explore their identities.
In a heartfelt exploration of family dynamics, we discuss the emotional journey of reconnecting with biological relatives and how each adoption story is unique. From navigating the expectations of biological ties to understanding the richness of extended family networks, we emphasize the diverse experiences of adoptees and their families. Through personal anecdotes and reflections, we celebrate the profound bonds formed through love and chosen family, underscoring the specialness of adopted children and the shared experiences of adoptive families.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne and we have anamazing guest today.
Sasha Sedman has written quitea few books.
Sasha is a cherished voice inchildren's literature.
She lives in Washington DC withher husband and two kids.
I am so thrilled to have you ontoday.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Thank you so much for having me, and I absolutely
loved your story and I'mthrilled that we were able to
connect on your platform andchat about everything, including
adoption.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Oh, this is going to be amazing.
Even though you do have severalbooks out, I would like to
focus on one particular.
Now we're going to talk aboutall of them, but First Day, an
adoption story, because it doeshit so close to home for me.
I've adopted all five of mykids, definitely yes, and every
one of our stories is sodifferent.
(00:57):
You say First Day depicts thejourney adoptive parents take to
become a family with theirchild, and this is so
beautifully written andillustrated.
I have to tell you, I openedyour book and the first thing
that I saw was the words born inmy heart forever.
You will stay when I calledmyself your parent that very
first day.
That is a beautiful way tostart your book.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, I had a really good friend who is working in
social working and when Iinitially wrote this book it was
very much inspired by my ownadoption story, which was from
infancy at a hospital with a momand dad, and I shared it with
some friends and I realized thatno one else I knew who was
adopted had the exact same storyas me, and so we scratched it
(01:42):
and we started all over againand my friend in social working
said this would be amazing ifyou could relate to older
children as well.
And so we made a reallyconscious decision as I was
writing this book, to not nameparents, to not name ages, races
, situations and to really justallow for an analogy where
parents could really fill in theblanks to their own child's
story, fill in the blanks totheir own child's story and then
(02:06):
at the end also write in theirchild's story, because it is so
special.
And I've talked to my mom aboutit many times and she said she
wished she had something likethis where she could have
written down little memories andhad even my birth family write
notes in it and given it to meas a gift and read it to me as a
baby and child, and I lovereading it to my kids and
they're biological but I lovetelling them the story about how
mommy became you know, howgrandma became a mommy to their
(02:27):
mom, and I think it's justreally fun and it's a great way
to talk about it and open upthose conversations.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I love how the book is written because it is, you
know, adoption story, but it'salso so unique I mean, it's for
everybody, but unique at thesame time, and that was really
cool that you did that.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It was definitely difficult, because I know that
everyone's adoption stories areso different.
I have friends, who were adoptedby single parents, I have
interracial families, I havesame-sex families, and it's
beautiful, and I see so manybooks out there.
I personally was read Tell MeAgain About the Night you Were
Born, which was the book myparents read to me.
I loved it and it depicted mystory, but it didn't depict
(03:10):
anyone else's that I knew, so Iwanted to make sure that it did,
and I do have a few Easter eggsin there that resonate with me.
I have in the children'sbedroom.
I haven't told anyone this, butso you're going to get a sneak
peek.
In the child's bedroom there'sa Raggedy Ann on the shelf and
there's an elephant on the shelf, and the Raggedy Ann is
something that my birth mothergifted to me.
(03:30):
And now she also gifted them tomy children.
So that's my little Easter eggfor me.
And I had a really dear friendwho passed but he was adopted
and when I was pregnant with myson, his parents gifted me with
his little elephant.
So I wanted to make sure thatthose little pieces of my story
were in the book.
But it allowed for otherchildren to enjoy and see those
(03:54):
images and that maybe they couldpick out little things about
their story, like the first timethey did their handprints with
their parents or theirfootprints or finger painting,
and those are just such littlecore memories that parents have
when they're becoming thatfamily unit.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
All the firsts are so important.
You know, one of the thingsthat I love about your book is
the calendar, and you askfamilies to circle their first
day together.
So can I just say that I'vebeen on.
You know, as I've said, I'vebeen on both sides of this.
I'm adopted and I've adopted on.
You know, as I've said, I'vebeen on both sides of this.
I'm adopted and I've adoptedall of my kids.
25 years ago I adopted my firsttwo and then I've adopted my
(04:35):
three littles, which it wasofficial in 22, but we I've had
them like eight years.
So you know, it took a while, itwasn't fun, but it took a while
.
And I can remember the day thatI met my kids for the first
time, my older two especially.
They were four and three and wemet them at a McDonald's
(04:58):
Playland.
They were playing and you know,we met them briefly and then
one of them started screamingdad, dad.
And Steve was like you know,look who is calling for their
dad and they're not, you know,responding and we're both
looking around for this dad.
That was him.
(05:18):
He didn't realize that it washim because that was the first
time any of us had beenaddressed as parents.
We laughed so hard about that.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Oh, I love that story and it's such like it happens
in the most random places.
I mean, I used to have likethis ideal, as I became a mother
, of like what it would be likeand what you think, but
sometimes those little momentsin a McDonald's are those big
moments.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, I mean, we still laugh about that because
it was just you know, we had noidea.
It's the first time that wewere ever called parents, and
those firsts are just so youknow.
They really are a lifelongmemory.
So you had an open adoption andI find that so interesting to
me.
I did not have an open adoption.
(06:09):
None of my kids have had openadoptions, so maybe you could
tell me a little bit about yourstory.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yeah, well, my parents were in their 40s and so
they went to an agency and theywere told they were a little
bit old, so they had a lawyerwho told them hey, reach out to
everyone you know, reach out tofriends, family, extended family
, just everyone.
Let them know that you're opento adopting and see what happens
(06:36):
.
And they reached out to mymom's aunt and she said well, I
have a friend who's seven monthspregnant down in Florida
looking for an open adoption.
Said, well, I have a friendwho's seven months pregnant down
in Florida looking for an openadoption.
And so my parents flew downfrom DC to Florida and met my
birth mother and my birth sister, who was 16 at the time, at an
Olive Garden.
And my mom said that she wentback to the hotel room with my
(06:59):
dad and said I want that babyand she just fell in love.
They flew home and then I wasborn in late August and she
spent about the whole month ofAugust with my birth mother
connecting with her, connectingwith her belly and she.
One of my favorite stories isshe was in the delivery room
with my birth mother and when Iwas born they swaddled me and
(07:21):
handed her to my birth motherand my understanding is my birth
mother pushed me away and saidgive her to her mom and my mom
was the first one to hold me.
And it just the selflessness,the connection that they had.
And I actually recently heardmy mom is currently visiting me
right now and she told me onthis trip we had gone to Vegas
(07:44):
for my sister's wedding and wewere all sitting at this big
table with all of her weddingparty and a guest had come up to
my mom and said so who are you?
Because we don't hang around,we're not from the area and my
birth mother looked at her andshe said we are their mothers
and they are our daughters.
We are their mothers and theyare our daughters.
(08:08):
And my mom just said it was soclassy, it was so beautiful.
I felt so warm because my birthsister was not adopted.
My birth sister was raised bymy birth mother and we have
different fathers and then I wasraised by my mom and dad.
But I just I remember that andI always remember sitting in the
kitchen with my mom calling mybirth mother on Mother's Day and
my mom talking about me andsaying our daughter is so
beautiful, our daughter, and itwas.
(08:29):
I never felt fearful of talkingabout that and she's never met
my children.
She's never met my husband butwe text, we talk.
She sent them birthday gifts.
We have a really beautifulrelationship and I'm really
lucky to have it.
I have a thyroid issue that Iwas able to text her about and
say hey, do you have issues withyour thyroid?
(08:49):
My birth father has an allergyto amoxicillin, which my
children and me both have.
If I had abandonment problemsbecause of my adoption, if I
felt abandoned or I felt angryat my birth parents and I have
(09:10):
to say that has to be furtherfrom the truth I know that every
situation is different andevery child will have their own
emotions about it and I thinkthat that is so valid and it
needs to be said.
But for me and my experience,it was so beautiful and so open
and I was able to ask thequestions and they were able to
answer and I think that that wasa really important part of my
(09:30):
story and I think other peoplehave more questions that maybe
don't get answered.
My husband was adopted by hisfather oh my goodness.
And even though his mothertries to answer those questions,
I know if they're not answeredfrom that person, sometimes that
wound just never feels fullyclosed and fully healed, and
(09:51):
I've seen that firsthand withhim and his experience.
And I also have friends whowere adopted by single parents
and who just found out abouttheir birth family recently and
ended up finding siblings andflying to meet them and it was
wonderful, but they went.
You know, we're in our 30s now.
They went most of theiradolescence and early adulthood
(10:12):
without having that connectionand they're now having those
answers.
So they're working throughthose things now.
But every story is different andthat's really what I wanted to
depict in First Day, becauseevery story is is so different
and every child's experience,every family's experience is so
different and diverse andbeautiful and complicated, just
like every other family'sjourney.
(10:33):
It's not just adoption, it'severyone's family is different,
and so being able to put thatout there so that people can
connect with that, children cansee themselves on the cover, I
think is just really importantto allow for that conversation
and to just start it and allowkids to feel all the feelings,
have all the emotions, you know,feel safe in their environment,
(10:55):
feel safe with their mom, feelsafe with their dad and, you
know, call the mom and dad forthe first time in a McDonald's.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, and it is.
There's so many mixed emotionswith adoption.
It's very, it can be verycomplicated, but I think that
that gift that your parents gaveyou all of them collectively
together to make that decision,to keep it open is it's so
beautiful and that, you know,for your birth mom I would think
(11:27):
, and I don't know, that mighthave made her feel better and
more of a relief, knowing youknow I'm giving my child to
these people to raise and havethem be her parents for her life
.
And I don't know that's such ahard decision, I'm sure, for
your birth mom and what a reliefthat must have been for her to
(11:50):
have such a great relationshipwith your adoptive parents.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, I definitely think it was the ideal.
My mom actually, after adoptingme, became an adoption agent
for most of my life and is nowretired, so we really had a lot
of adoption around us, and thestories that I heard of
different adoption situationswhere it was supposed to be open
and it became closed, or if Idid not to give children you
(12:18):
know all of the information, orany information you know I
really felt lucky to have thatsituation.
I did, however, have a momentwhen I was 18 where my birth
father confronted me saying thathe wasn't sure I was his.
That's why his family was neverforward with me and we did a
DNA test.
It came back.
I had texted my birth mothersaying, and she said nope, I
(12:41):
know it, you're good, if youwant to do it, go for it, but I
can tell you and he wanted tomeet me immediately.
His family did, and it took meuntil I was 23 to go down and
meet them because it was just alot to digest and I needed to
process that information andprocess it with my parents, and
you know they told me that hehad wanted that when I was
little and they had said, no,I'd been poked and prodded
(13:03):
enough, and if I became of age,that's a decision I could make
and that's, I think, somethingthat was really helpful, not
just in that scenario, butgiving me the reins in a very
controlled, safe way, I think ingeneral, is good parenting.
I mean, you should never letyour kid drive a car when
they're five.
But, you know, turn the car off, let them sit in the seat,
(13:26):
touch the wheel.
It, you know, negates a tantrumwhen sitting waiting for, you
know, chick-fil-a.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
But you don't know what you know.
You're opening up like a youknow your box of memories and
your box of what ifs and couldbe's and all these different
things, and you don't knowwhat's in that box.
I mean it's so uncertain andnot everybody's story.
When they go and open that boxis a great story and you know
(13:54):
you, it's funny because whenyou're little and you think
especially and I did know that Iwas adopted but you think, oh
well, my mom's, this princessand she's you know all these
wonderful things, and thensometimes it just doesn't work
out that way and it can beheartbreaking in some respects.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Oh, 100 percent.
And I think managing thoseexpectations if a child does
want to pursue that is important.
I think managing thoseexpectations if a child does
want to pursue that is important, and being able to tell them
that they're allowed to feelwhatever they feel.
But that also means that theirbiological family is going to
feel how they want to feel andthat they might not feel the
same and they might wantdifferent outcomes.
And, just like any relationship, it does take two and we can
(14:43):
want things really, really badly.
And if they don't want it too,then we can work through it on
our own and all we can controlis our own thing.
So if we choose to leave thatdoor open, we can, but they
might not always do the same, orthey might want that door open
and we might not feel ready todo that just yet.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, we had to find mine.
I mean, we kind of knew bitsand pieces because you know you
get this file, they got thisfile with me and we found out
some things and we knew that itprobably wasn't a great
situation.
But then my adopted dad hadpassed away when he was 11, when
(15:18):
I was 11.
Sorry.
And so, yeah, it and he was myperson, and so then life kind of
, you know, just blew up afterthat.
Nothing was great, and then Iwent a really bad path and so
then, and I think, a lot of thethings that had happened to me
before I was adopted, and thenhere's my dad gone and
(15:41):
everything, it just kind of allcame together and I wasn't able
to handle it very well and I'malso autistic on top of it, so
it just kind of hit me reallyhard.
And so then we did go on thissearch for my parents and I
don't think she was very happythat we found her, but we did
(16:01):
through an investigator and Idid have a very brief
relationship with her and it wasnot that great.
I'm glad that I did it.
It was something that I neededto do and I think that a lot of
people do, because it reallycloses those.
You know, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I don't know.
There's a whole chapter withinourselves that belongs to that
part that we need to address andhave maybe some closure on
honeymoon idea of the princessesand the castle kind of go away
and it gives you a little bit ofa reality check where you're
like, okay, like there's,there's a reason I was adopted.
There was a reason.
You know that my parents are myparents now and you know I
(16:56):
couldn't believe that more.
My mom and dad were meant to bemy mom and dad and that's who
were meant to adopt me and raiseme and give me all these skills
and right, and that's how itwas meant to happen.
But I do think finding birth,family or information, their
story, I think helps figure outwho we are, because that is like
(17:27):
a puzzle piece that we feellike is either missing or just a
little bit out of place.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
And all of my kids have, even though one's 30,
one's 29, and then these threeare 11, 9, and 8.
And every single one of themhas addressed this issue with
the biological parents verydifferently.
And my older one, she reallyneeded that, she had to have
that connection, that connection.
(18:00):
And my 29-year-old, she stillhas yet to want that.
She just doesn't want anythingto do with that.
We talk all the time.
She's just, you know, I'm hermom and she's good with that and
she doesn't need that.
And my younger three aresiblings, and so they all.
They ask a lot of questions andI answer them because I think
that that's important, ageappropriate.
And we've gotten more and more,you know, direct with the
(18:23):
answers, the older that they get.
But that's something as wellthat they're going to have to
figure out as life goes on.
So, and you're right, beingable to just say, hey, you know,
this is on your decision as youget older and what you want to
do.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, and I think that that like the age
appropriate honesty, I think,like I've talked to some of my
friends who are biologicalchildren and they have
biological children themselvesand I ask them and I say, well,
with your mom, do you have acloser relationship with her
about things that you guys cantalk about?
Or does it create kind of aweird gap if there's things that
(19:00):
she just won't talk about, andit's always well, yeah, if
there's stuff we can't talkabout, it always kind of creates
a bit of a gif or a gap, and soit's like, you know, it's the
same with adoption.
So my dad is a little bit moreclosed about me talking about my
birth family.
He feels a little bit morethreatened about any
relationship that I have with mybirth father.
He sees himself as my dad.
You know, he just that's whathe wants.
(19:22):
He doesn't.
He kind of wants to forget thebiological side of it, and so
it's hard because I can't reallytalk to him.
I have to, you know, kind ofsecretly text my birth father
happy father's day, or, you know, if he does contact me, I can't
really talk about it with him,which is sad and that's a loss,
but I feel lucky to be able toask my mom questions and talk to
her and you know, just havethat.
(19:57):
That's biological cousin andit's cool.
It's really interesting to havesuch a mixed kind of fun family
.
You know there's more branches,more people to love, more
places to go If my kids want totravel.
There's more people, I trust,around the country.
You know that's awesome.
You know, just be a call away,a little bit closer, so it's
nice, it's a really niceconnection.
(20:19):
But everyone's is different andso, like you were saying, with
your children having thosequestions and then your daughter
not really wanting that andjust feeling like, nope, that's
my mom, I'm good, that's great,that's perfectly normal.
I feel like everyone'sexperienced how they want to
handle it.
Yeah, like awesome, like I lovethe.
(20:39):
I love when kids and evenadults just advocate for
themselves, like this is what Ineed and I'm good, like that's
just, it's so important.
And when you're in an adoptionsetting for children to just be
like, hey, mom, can I ask aboutmy birth mom?
It's like sure, honey, what doyou need to ask?
Like advocate for what youwould like to know.
(21:04):
You know we will be as open aswe feel is appropriate, but we
will always be honest about theinformation.
You know, and it's just, it'sgreat, it's so awesome because
it's raising those independentthinkers where they can just say
what they need.
You know, be out, there, be thesqueaky wheel.
You know, when callinginsurance companies, it's just,
it gives them strength and a lotof like defensive stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Oh, absolutely oh.
And my older two have noproblem advocating yeah, but you
know there's another side to ittoo, because it wasn't about
being threatened so much as amom.
There was some of that there ifthey wanted to connect with
their birth mom, but the otherpart of it was in their
(21:40):
situation.
It was not good, it was justnot good.
I knew what was on the otherside of that door and I wanted
to.
You know, as their mom, I wantto protect them.
I don't.
You have to be so careful inhow you address those types of
(22:01):
things and when it's okay tolike open that door a crack and
then to the point where you'reready to say, okay, you can go
through and this is what's onthe other side and I'll be there
for you as you go through this,but it's scary.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
When she got remarried, his dad was like I'm
going to adopt this baby boy andhe's just a phenomenal person.
But when I actually got engagedto my husband, his mom pulled
me aside and told me some reallygruesome details about his
biological father and said don'ttell him.
And I said oh no, no, no, no.
I said you need to tell him.
He holds so much guilt, thinkingthat he was why his dad didn't
(22:57):
want him, and he's been holdingthat.
He's 39 years old and he's beenholding it his whole life
wondering why his dad didn'twant him.
You need to open up.
And I went home with him and Isaid, mike, your mom told me
some things would you like herto tell you or would you like me
to tell you, because I knowshe's okay about it?
Okay, this is your informationand I've been given it and I
(23:20):
don't want it.
I don't want to hold it fromyou because I feel like, as
someone who's adopted, the worstthing that happened was when
people kept secrets and knewthey were secrets.
Oh right.
So I'm like you know, if you donot want this information to
come from your fiance and youwant it to come from mom, that
is completely your right.
I right, I am letting you knowthere is information that you
deserve to know.
I'm open to telling you what Iam aware of at this point, but
(23:44):
you and your mom need to have asit down conversation.
He asked to tell me and wespent probably until 3 am just
talking, crying, coping, just,and I could physically see it
coming off of his chest of justunaware of the situations, of
what his mother went through, ofwhat he went through, his
family went through, and it wasjust like.
Like it brings tears to my eyesnow because just thinking about
(24:06):
it where it really is and it'slike when is the right time?
Is it when they're in theirlate 30s?
Is it when they're 10 or 11?
Is it when they're out of highschool?
They're out of high school,like it's really.
It's so hard as a parent to knowwhen to stop protecting them
from information that you knowwill be hurtful and you know
will be hard for them to hearand it's scary and it's unknown.
(24:27):
And each child, I know, isdifferent and has different
emotions and different feelings.
You know big feelings, littlefeelings, and it's like when do
I, like you said, open the doorand let them walk in and let
them know that I will be here?
It's like when is that righttime?
Is there a too late?
Is there a too soon?
You know all these questions and, again, it's not just adoption,
(24:48):
it's life, it's raisingchildren.
When do you tell them about thethings going on in the world?
When do you tell them aboutpolitics?
When do you introduce all ofthese things that are so scary?
And what if they find out ontheir own?
What if they find out on socialmedia?
What if they do a 23andMe andfind out things from a person
that I know is not safe?
(25:10):
But I couldn't control thatcommunication?
You know, there's so manywhat-ifs, there's so many
thoughts of what could happen,what should happen, and, as
their moms, all we want to do isprotect them and we want to be
there.
And I had someone recently tellme she has a 31 year old and she
said I just want to go back towhen a hug would fix everything.
And I just feel that becauseright now my kids are at the age
(25:33):
where a hug fixes everythingand it just one day that's not
going to fix everything, one daythat's not going to help them
with grades and it's not goingto help them with college
tuition.
You know they're going to needmore and we're going to figure
out how to walk the pathtogether and you know, one day
they're going to walk throughthese doors that are scary and
I'm going to hold their hand andI'm going to be there and I'm
(25:54):
going to try and get themprepared and give them enough
skills in life to be able tohandle those situations, but
really it's an unknown, yeah andthat's really all that we can
do as parents, and it's harderthe older they get to be able to
let go of those reins and letthem All.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Three of my kids are special needs.
They have autism and ADHD,dyslexia.
They have all the things Ithink like from A to Z, and
there was a lot of trauma.
There was a lot of trauma.
So you know, it's just such acomplex situation and every day
(26:31):
we have to ask how are we goingto handle this?
And you know, honestly, I couldbe doing it wrong there.
There could be days where Ishould have told them something
or I should have, and.
But I'm doing my best and Ithink that we all and I think
(26:52):
you know adoption is can be in avery selfless self.
It's.
It's not a selfish thing whereyou're trying to, like, bring in
these kids and take over thissituation from this other family
, and you know, and I'm and it'snot like that and we could be
really messing up along the way,but I think that we're really
(27:14):
trying to do our best.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah.
So I think that's all that wecan ask of ourselves and of our
kids is just do our best.
And then tomorrow we're goingto do our best and maybe it'll
be a little better, and my momtells me she goes you're going
to try your best not to make themistakes I made, and then your
children are going to try not tomake the mistakes that you made
, and then it's just a cyclewhere we're trying not to do
those things.
You know my mom was never greatabout holidays and I'm now
(27:40):
going overkill.
And for all I know my kidscould be like whoa mom too much.
Right after Thanksgiving, thetrees going up like absolutely
not.
When I grow up, I'm putting thetree up the day before
Christmas.
You know something that theydeal with.
But you know we're just, we'redoing our best and we're being
honest as much as we can.
(28:00):
And my parents oh, go ahead,sorry.
Yeah, no, that's what myparents did.
They tried their best and theywere honest, and that's all I
could ask, because that's allthey could do you know I can't
ask for people to do more.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
As an adoptive parent , one of the best gifts that
anybody can give me my kids cangive me is just to call me mom.
You know, I mean from the firsttime I've ever heard it, and it
never gets old, it is just themost precious word.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I know my mom had a moment when I was, I think, two
or three, where my birth motherwrote them they were writing
back and forth for the first twoyears of my life and said I'd
really like to meet Sasha.
And my mom said, oh, all right,let's fly.
And I asked her recently andshe said I can't remember if it
was to Florida or to Maine, butshe said the whole flight her
heart was racing because she hadthis idea that I was going to
(28:53):
have a cosmic connection to mybirth mother and I hadn't seen
her since I was 30 days old.
But she was like she's going torun to this woman open-armed.
I mean, she's going to knowit's her mom, she's going to
smell her.
Like she had all these thoughtsrunning.
And she said they got to theairport and my birth mother was
there and she said I walkedbehind her and I stuck my head
out from between her legs, justlike I did with every other
(29:13):
stranger I met and she goes thatentire trip.
I was just hanging on to herleg.
You know I'd laugh with mybirth mother.
I was a two and a half year oldI.
You know I loved everybody.
But she said more than ever.
On that trip I was just reallyattached to my mom and she said
that just really.
I was your mom.
I was the one who stayed upwith you late at night.
I was the one who knew yourfood preferences.
(29:34):
I was the one who knew how youliked your juice, how you liked
putting your shoes on.
It's the littlest things, butto a child that's mom.
That's my mom, the woman whobirthed me.
I'm grateful.
I have love for her.
I refer to her as she's adistant aunt who I have love for
.
She messaged me.
I send her pictures of the kidsever so often.
(29:56):
I love seeing them and lovegetting updates.
But you know she's a distantaunt.
My kids wouldn't recognize herin a crowd and my mom is granny
or didi and that's their grandmaand my mom walks into the house
and my son goes Grandma, thisis my home and he's just, he
adores my mom.
You know we dropped off thetrain station before station
(30:16):
before and he's just likewhere's my Deedee?
Speaker 1 (30:20):
And it's like that's grandma.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
That's mom.
That's our person.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
You know you use a word and you've used it here on
the podcast and I think it'sother than the word mom.
It's one of the biggest wordswhen it comes to adopted kids
and that's chosen, that word.
Chosen is.
It's such a special word to bechosen.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
It is and we needed that right at the beginning of
the book that our children arechosen and they are ours.
You know you're their parentsand again, I didn't want mom or
dad to be there just fordifferent types of family
dynamics.
They needed to be able to fillthat in and have that for
themselves and that they're bornin our hearts and that you
(31:10):
really become a parent when youmeet that child and have that
special moment.
And that's something I reallywant to bunny hop with this book
is when I was pregnant with mychildren.
I had pregnancy books and Ihaven't really been able to find
one for adoption and foradoptive families, and so my
goal is to make kind of asibling to this book.
(31:30):
That allows for it tocompletely be a fill in the
blank where it has everythingfrom.
You know, did you have socialworkers?
Did you have foster siblings?
What were you wearing when yourparents met you for the first
time?
You know all of these detailsthat are specific to adoption,
because my kids were biological.
They were naked, but you knowwhat were other children wearing
(31:51):
?
Were you wearing a tie?
Did they put you in yourfavorite shirt?
Did you have a favorite stuffedanimal or a blanket, or did you
hang on to a pillow that youhad for the longest time with a
special pillowcase?
And so I really want to createsomething like that for birth
families to have these promptsto fill out that are also very
specific to every child, whereyou can just fill in what fits
(32:12):
for their situation.
And it's beautiful.
They can have it just like abiological child has their
pregnancy books with theirultrasounds.
They have the pictures and thelittle memories of those little
things that it's so hard to holdon to.
Every single thing.
You know the first outfit, thefirst time we went to get ice
cream, the first time you had acheeseburger, the first time we
(32:32):
ate at this dining table, whatdid we eat?
All those things you know, andit's hard to hang on to all
those things.
So having a place for it, youknow, within your folder of
their adoption, it's, I thinkit's special.
It's something I would havereally cherished to know about
those details, you know, I knowI lived in a long stay Marriott
when I was born and so it's like, oh, would there have been a
place for, like the ticket stubwhich I just could have hung on
(32:55):
to as such a cool littlescrapbook thing, or, you know,
did you take me on the train,because I love trains.
And so the first day we weretogether you said, okay, we're
going to go on the train and wewent on a ride around the city
and just everyone's story is sobeautiful and there is a place
for it.
So it's just about finding wherewe can put it, and so if I can
(33:16):
help make a space for thosestories to be told and cherished
and hung on to, then that'swhat I want to do as an adoptee
and it is hard because I'm notan adoptive parent.
So my mom actually wrote theback of First Day.
So if you look at the very backof it, my mom was the one who
wrote that I had asked her to bea part of it and my dad helped
edit it as well and I sent acopy to my birth mother and she
(33:40):
actually shared it with thelawyer who helped with my
adoption and she wrote me andshe said it brought a tear to my
eye.
It's like one of those momentswhere a puzzle piece kind of
falls into place, where you'relike they're proud, they know
that this was our story, youknow, and it just it was really
(34:00):
special.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
We are so much alike.
I mean every single memory.
I like to clip and have allthese different things and I
like I.
We went to the Wicked movie theother day, and so I have that
ticket stub and I like to createthese memories.
I have these boxes, you know,and it's just so crazy because I
(34:25):
just want to hold on toeverything.
Everything is just so important.
Like you said, I want them to be, and my one son was just
looking at one of my books fromwhen I was a lot younger and he
just pulled it out and he'slooking at it.
And that's why, you know,because you want to be able to
open those books and feel thosesame feels and, you know,
(34:49):
remember and pass it down.
And I've even gone around andstarted taking pictures of the
things in her house thatbelonged to generations before
me, because I want to make abook of those, with what they
are and what they meant, becauseI want them to understand look,
my dad made this right beforehe passed away.
(35:10):
That's why it's so important,and this was my mom's, whatever
you know.
And I want them to be able toopen that book and know, know,
and then their kids and theirkids know what these things are.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
And so when they're older, you know, some people
might not be in their lives,some people might pass, they
(35:46):
might have friends that theydon't stay connected with, but
they'll have these little notesfrom their birthdays of like wow
, like that's so much fun, likeI wonder where they are now or I
remember them, or oh, I lovedthis person and I remember they
passed.
So it's special that I havethese handwritten notes from
these people that were justformed.
I just it's so special to havethose little things and I keep
all of their cards.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I have shoe boxes my husband makes oh my gosh, you're
so much like me.
Oh my gosh, I'm the same way oh, it's so bad.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
I have so much and even like for my books I have
like the sketches and thedrawings and how we need it to
be and everything, and just it'shanging on to those little
things.
So, like, I loved having like apregnancy book, so I'm like, oh
, like, obviously there needs tobe more for like adoption.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
There isn't very much out there.
You know, we weren't talkingabout the things that we keep.
My mom had this in her houseand I have it in my house.
It was a saying that reallymeans a lot to me and it goes
something like not flesh of myflesh nor bone of my bone, but
still miraculously my own.
I didn't forget for a singleminute.
(36:52):
You didn't grow under my heart,but in it, you know, and it's
just such beautiful words.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah, I love that, I think the line from the book
where you don't have my ankles,my feet or my toes, but yes,
that was so good when our lovegrows and it's.
I remember I initially hadsomething about your smile and I
had contacted some people thatmy mom used to work with in
adoption and she's an adoptedmom and she wrote, and she goes
(37:22):
well, children often mimic theirmom's smile, so our smiles are
actually like our mom's, whetheradopted or not.
So we ended up changing thatline because I realized I do
kind of have my mom's smile,even though I'm adopted.
I see her and that's what Igrew up with the smile in my
face and the smile, and so I Isee her smile in mine, and so we
(37:44):
made sure that that was becausethey do, they do have our smile
and I really like that idea oflike I did get things from her
and I did inherit things likehow I do my hair and what type
of skin I use and you know, ohsure, those we get those, yeah,
yeah, because we did side byside with them, we did life with
(38:04):
them.
Exactly, and it's that natureversus nurture, where, like, I
maybe don't have a baby toenailbecause that was a biological
thing from one of mygrandparents.
But that's such a smallfraction of who I am as a person
and I feel that the majority ofme is nurture.
It's what I was around, how Iwas raised, the skills I was
(38:26):
given for how to handle life.
You know my education, thepeople that my parents put me
around, my friends.
You know that's really whatshaped me, because if you think
about the type of person youcould have been if you weren't
in that situation and howdifferent you would be, it
really opens your eyes to like,wow, like I am because I was
raised by these people, becauseI was raised by my mom and dad,
(38:51):
I am this way.
I'm living in this house.
I had the experiences I did, Itraveled, you know.
I met my husband because myparents hated motorcycles and I
needed to do a little bit ofrebelling.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Yeah, that's awesome.
You know some of the mostbeautiful stories I hear because
I'm really into American Idoland when the Olympics were on
and those stories were and theyalways go into these backstories
of adoptions and I owe my lifeto this person who took me in
(39:24):
and, you know, raised me astheir own and they really are
the most beautiful stories.
So and I really connect withthem.
And you know, talk about thesmile my dad and I have.
We had a picture of me and apicture of him and we had the
exact same smile.
We both had like this, you know, one-sided smile and it was
(39:49):
both on the same side.
So I still keep them togetherbecause it just means so much to
me that, even though he wasgone when I was 11 years old, so
much of him still lives insideof me.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Oh, definitely, yeah, that's so special and I love
that.
Like you said, like hearingadoption stories, hearing
success, family stories,creating bigger families.
I follow these people thatfoster to adopt on social media
and I'm just like, so like, I'mlike'm like, oh my gosh, like
it's so beautiful.
They have like three differentSantas to make sure that each of
(40:21):
their children's races arerepresented within.
Oh, that's so cool.
And I'm just like, oh my gosh,like they're just thinking so
deeply about what their childrenneed and want, and even if
their children aren't asking forit, they're just they're
thinking so deeply about like,what can I do to connect with my
child so that they feelconnected with my family?
And I'm like, oh, yes, like-that's so awesome it is, it's
(40:48):
beautiful and it's just.
You know, how do we?
How do we do that like it's andwe're all trying to figure it
out.
Like you said, we could bedoing it all wrong, but it's
like we're trying our best, youknow, and that's all we can do
and I absolutely love that andseeing it and having that, even
just like on social media withmy books, like just being out in
the world, putting thatpositivity, putting those
(41:08):
stories out there, justreinforce that and just help so
much, because I know people havetraumatic stories and hard
stories and there's adoptees outthere sharing their stories,
saying that adoption is theseterrible things and it is
terrible what these people gothrough.
And there is a light and a dark, there is a bad and a good.
(41:29):
There's always bad people inthe world, there's always bad
things happening, but there'salso good and that can't be
forgotten and that can't beovershadowed by Absolutely.
Adoption is a good intent, it'sa good love, it's good to make
families and I see stories of 16, 17-year-olds about to age out
(41:54):
and your heart just breaksbecause you're like who are they
going to go home to, like whoare what's going to happen?
Like you just start having allthese thoughts, like as an
adoptee, I'm like, well, whatwould have happened?
Speaker 1 (42:04):
I used to work at a shelter for kids who were a, b,
didn't have any parents and theywere all older.
So you know, I ended up havingsome at my house for Christmas
and things like that.
I mean it was a really greatexperience, but I felt really
bad for them and one of themshowed up on my doorstep when he
(42:25):
did age out I mean he was 18.
He had nowhere to go.
I mean, lots of times back thenand it might be different now,
I'm not really sure, but youknow, the shelter door opens,
you're 18.
Bye, and they still don't haveanywhere to go.
So there were a lot of gapsback then and I hope that they
have more services now for kidsthat because they have no skills
(42:49):
a lot of them and most peoplerely on their parents to help
them to that next step.
You know we all do.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Oh yeah, college tuition jobs, helping even write
a resume, getting a resume,planning for that, you know,
having internships, you know Iworked at my mom's job over the
summer I'd help, you know, filepaperwork at my dad's.
I mean these are little thingsbut they prepared me for the
workforce, they prepared me,boosted my resume.
You know, spell check All thoselittle things home and create
(43:26):
families.
And when a child doesn't havethat and they age out, it's an
unimaginable loss for people whodo not have the family to come
home to the mom to call, whenthey're having a hard day, the
dad to lean on.
That's it.
That's it.
Yeah, I mean I know they haveeach other and I know I've seen
a lot of these children who doage out.
(43:47):
They really stay connected totheir foster siblings and to
other children and they justthey band together and that is
their family and I mean they'vecreated that what they do their
own family or they deserve thatmother, father figure, that mom
figure, dad, aunt, uncles.
I mean every child deserves that.
(44:08):
They deserve to be tucked in atnight, they deserve to know
where home is.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
I say all the time family is not blood.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
It's not.
Oh my gosh, if it was, thenoops.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
You know, I want to talk a little bit about my kids
just for a couple minutes.
I mean, I knew, the moment thatI held my youngest son, that he
was mine Before he was mine.
You know, no matter how oldthey are really, and I don't
(44:54):
think that you can explain it ifyou've never experienced it.
I say that because I say all ofthis, because he was born and
handed to me.
I didn't get him until he wastwo months.
I still really just knew thatthis was going to happen.
That bond was just establishedlike right there.
(45:18):
Now my older ones they tooktime because four and three and
then my other one was 18 monthsand my other one was a
non-verbal, almost four-year-old, and it just it takes more time
for that to happen.
Did I know and did I love themjust as much?
(45:40):
Yes, but on their end, I knewthat there was a lot coming in
and you have to be a lot morecautious in how you handle the
child that is being adopted andcoming into your home.
I can remember and this isreally funny my now 29-year-old,
the one that I'm mom and that'sit.
(46:00):
She was so funny.
We had just gotten her and shewas playing in the other room
and I was in the kitchen.
She runs up to me and she saysyou took me without saying
please.
And I said well, will youplease live with us, will you
(46:23):
please let me be your mom?
And she just went, yep, andthen she ran off and played.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
It was so funny.
I love that.
Have you seen the movie InstantFamily with Mark Wahlberg?
No, I have not.
Okay, this is something thatI'm going to recommend to any
adoptee, adopter, adoptivefamily connect.
It is a true story about acouple who adopted three
children out of foster care, ateenager and two younger
(46:53):
children, and it you know, youhad this mom moment I remember
you were saying with your dadand they had that depicted in
the movie, where the little girlwalks up to her, her foster
father, and says can you help mewith my dolly?
My dolly needs help.
And he helped her and she saysthanks, daddy, and both parents
looked at each other and the momfollowed her and said I want
some of that.
(47:13):
Do you need any of it?
And it's just, it's so real.
I showed my mom and my mom'slike eyes were watering the
whole movie where she's likeit's so real, the issues you
have, like you know, an olderchild wanting to paint their
room black.
It's like, okay, not what Iwould have thought, but that's
you Like, whatever works.
(47:34):
It's like the first timedisciplining your child,
especially when they're a littleolder.
It's like I don't want them tohate me, but also I need to
discipline them because that'smy job as their parent is to
teach them right and wrong.
And I have to do these thingsand it's hard and you have
self-doubt.
And my mom told me one timethat parents of a child came in
and he was 13 and they said ourchild hates us.
(47:56):
He says he wished he was neveradopted.
What do we do?
And she said I was not adoptedand I always told my parents
that I wish I was.
That's awesome.
She said some days yourteenager is not going to like
you and that's okay it's true,that's normal parenting.
He's like I did not like myparents and my parents were not
(48:16):
my adoptive parents, becausethat's normal.
It's normal for your child tohave questions and to use
buttons that they have, and hisbutton is the adoption button,
so that's going to be used.
Some days when he's really madbecause he doesn't want to do
his homework or clean his roomor he's grounded from playing
video games, it's okay.
And it's like it's validatingthat feeling of it's okay to be
(48:37):
scared and you're his mom anddad, it's okay.
Like this is, you have a verynormal mother-son relationship
and some days it's really hard.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Yeah, I mean, I've heard the words from one of my
kids, older kids.
Well, you know, you're not mymom, you know, and those are
words that really sting.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Oh it's.
I'm guilty of saying thosewords as an adolescent and I've
apologized profusely to my momfor those as an adult and she
would say well, I knew I was, sothat was a me thing that I had
to work out and I had to besecure enough to really, you
know, take it, because therewere going to be days that were
(49:23):
hard for you and you were youngand you had big emotions and big
words and I, to this day, I'mstill in awe that she took those
because they were such blows, Iknow, to her and to my dad.
And I had a lot of issues likeyou were saying, like, similarly
, where I dropped out of highschool, I took random paths that
(49:45):
weren't safe.
I did bad things.
I did all the stuff.
I lived a very full young lifeand I'm very grateful that I
came out of the other sidesafely and healthy without a rap
sheet.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
I say that too, and I did all the twists and turns
and went on a lot of roads Ishould not have and I don't know
, do you?
This is an interestingconversation, actually, because
I know a lot of adoptive.
It doesn't matter when you'vebeen adopted.
I wonder if there is like thislittle thing that we feel that
(50:20):
disconnect, connection, thatlittle gap that happened in our
life that takes us down thatavenue.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure.
I have friends who are adoptedwho've definitely done very
straight narrow what the kind ofexpectation of adolescence was.
But I've also seen a lot ofindividuals who really are
eccentric with their choices ofyoung life and I don't know.
(50:50):
I'm kind of I don't know whatto expect with my own children.
I'm assuming they're going tokind of run wild, similarly to
my husband and I, and I don'tknow if that's biological or if
they're just being nurtured bypeople who did that.
But I think that, no matter what, when you're being raised,
whether it's your biologicalparents or your adoptive parents
(51:13):
, I think there's always thisfeeling of have I been doing
what they want me to do or am Idoing what I would have been?
I wonder what would havehappened.
I need to find myself a littlebit more and go off the deep end
occasionally.
(51:34):
But again, having those parentswho are in your corner, having
your mom, having your dad inyour corner, unlike those
children that age out to bethere as your safety net, and
almost knowing that it's like Ican only explain it as like
you're just testing boundarieswhere you're like do you still
love me if I do this?
Will you still be my parents ifI do that and having that
(51:57):
almost reassurance, and thengetting through it, you're like
okay, I can literally do justabout anything and I can still
come home because you're mom anddad, and so maybe it's that.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
It's another level of finding ourselves, I think, and
I think with the adoptionprocess, you know, we are trying
to find ourselves and there isan identity and all those things
that come with it and who am I?
But yeah, I think that thatadds a different, a more complex
level, I guess you can say ontrying to find ourselves.
(52:29):
And it also depends on tryingto find ourselves.
And it also depends on when youwere adopted.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
Yeah, so the experience you had before your
adoption, Absolutely the baggageyou bring with you, the stories
, the connections.
I know people who were adopteda little bit older and they have
foster siblings that they stillare connected with today and
they're adults and they wereadopted by different families.
They had different situationsbut they stayed pen pals, video
chats, I mean they were for lackof a better word siblings their
(52:58):
entire life, just raised bydifferent parents at that point,
because they had such a strongconnection as young children in
foster care.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
So when you said that , I mean what made you just say
you know what?
I am going to write this bookfor the masses with your such.
You have such a beautifuladoption story.
So what made you want to dothat and spread this for all?
Because one of my favoriteparts is that you do get to
write your own story.
(53:28):
In fact, I think I'm going todo that with my kids.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Actually we've added 10 more pages to that, so it's
much longer, because I didn't.
Once I got the first copy, I'mlike, oh, we need to add like at
least 10 more.
So it's much longer now.
I my first book I wrote wasFirst Night and it was about my
connection to my biologicalchildren and that was really
special to me and it was aconnection that I had with my
daughter while she was sleepingon my chest and my mom was
(53:55):
actually here and my daughterwould not settle for her and I
was trying to do dishes oranything else not baby related,
because I was burnt out.
And I remember walking in theroom, picking her up from my mom
and she immediately settled andmy mom said oh, she knows your
heartbeat, she just that's whatshe knows.
She knows you, your mom.
And I remember thinking tomyself did my mom have that
(54:16):
experience?
Or you know, because she wasmom from day one, but did I?
Was that a fear that she hadthat she wouldn't be enough even
for the infant, the infant,that the smell wouldn't be the
same that the heartbeat?
You know, were those thoughtsthat she had.
So when I wrote First Night, Iknew that I wanted to write
another book that depicted mystory, but I was an adopted
(54:39):
parent so I sent this out.
It probably took me.
Over this whole year I've beendoing research and connecting
with people and figuring out theart and originally the cover
was going to be three hands ofdifferent races making the
adoption symbol.
And I was talking to my artistabout it and actually the front
cover was on the internal pages,and when we came up with the
(55:03):
sketches and she sent me thefirst copy of everything, I said
, oh, this needs to be the cover, that's the cover.
And so we completely changed itbecause I said I want children
to see this book and say that'sme, that's me, that's my sister,
that's my brother, that's what,mommy looks like.
That's what daddy looks like andI really wanted that to
encompass every child, not justthree different skin tones or
(55:23):
three different age groups.
So we really tried hard becauseI wanted to share it with all
of my friends and family who areadopted and I had to figure out
a way.
How do I do this?
How do I make?
They had a very short journeybut they were trying to adopt
from Asia at the time and theyhad said there was a five-year
(55:54):
waiting list, so they wereprepared for that.
And so I remember I'm dyslexic,so I'm very visual and so I
remember visualizing this pathwhere the forest is just full of
clocks because you have no idea.
And you're kind of going downthis path where you have no idea
(56:15):
where it's going to take you,it maybe feels a little bit
scary and it's just there's noamount of time, you never know.
Like you said, you held yourbaby and then it was two months
and then it took eight years andit's hard and it's this path
that's traveled and soeverything really allowed for
analogies where there's a boatand a plane and hiking and a
train and it's like you knowsome people it's just flying
(56:36):
down to Florida to meet an olivegarden, other people, it's
flying around the world andtaking buses through unknown
areas that they've never been tomeet their children.
And so allowing for thosestories and to create those
analogies and I remember thehandprint one was really
difficult for me because I saidhow do I create an imagery that
(56:57):
is, you know, a more perfectlaugh, like, how do I visualize
a laugh?
And it's like what do you dowith your kids about laughing?
You're doing art with them,you're playing with them, them
you're getting dirty and muddyand getting fingerprints
everywhere.
And so we had that page of kidscan see their hands and it again
allows just for any child ofany age, because every parent I
(57:18):
know has taken their kidshandprints, has done their
footprints, have done fingerthing, and it's just, it's as
universal as we could do, um, ona paperback book from Amazon.
But I have so Very beautifullyillustrated.
Yeah, I absolutely love myartist.
I've used her for five out ofmy six books and we're
continuing to work together onother books and she's just, we
(57:42):
visualize each other so well andwe can just really bounce off
of each other.
And she has a specialconnection to adoption and so it
really has a special connectionto adoption.
Speaker 1 (57:53):
And so it really was a special book for both of us.
Well, it is very specialbecause I think adopted kids are
very special and I mean, comeon, we're chosen.
Yeah, yeah, and you know this isreally funny a little bit about
choosing, because ourcaseworker sat down with us and
(58:15):
painted this absolute worst casescenario.
You know, we're sitting infront for the first time,
wanting to be parents, and theyhave you go to parenting classes
and all these things, and italmost feels like they're trying
to talk you out of it in a way,because they're like, well, you
could end up with kids who are,you know, and just the worst,
(58:37):
and they could have alcoholismin their background and all
these different things.
And I'm just sitting there andI'm okay, okay, all right.
And then she says are you stillsure that you want to do this?
And I'm like, well, if theywere born for me, they would
have the same background.
(58:58):
So what's the difference?
Speaker 2 (59:01):
I know that's like the craziest thing is like I've
asked people where I'm like.
Are you what your parentswanted you to be?
And you're biological Like Iknow.
Are you what your parentswanted you to be and you're
biological Like I know?
I know plenty of people who arebiological children and they
are not at all.
You know, dad's a lawyer andnow child is an artist and dad
doesn't approve.
And it's like you don't know.
You never know what you'regoing to get.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
This is the end of part one with Sasha Sedman and
join us next time as we continuethe discussion on her books of
adoption, and one of the onesthat she wrote was Melanade, and
that's an awesome book thatwe're going to talk about
dyslexia and many of her otherchildren's books and if you know
(59:44):
anybody who has dyslexia or anyother disability they might
want to tune into.
Thank you so much for listening.
We will see you next time.
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne and we have anamazing guest today.
Sasha Sedman has written quitea few books.
Sasha is a cherished voice inchildren's literature.
She lives in Washington DC withher husband and two kids.
I am so thrilled to have you ontoday.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Thank you so much for having me, and I absolutely
loved your story and I'mthrilled that we were able to
connect on your platform andchat about everything, including
adoption.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Oh, this is going to be amazing.
Even though you do have severalbooks out, I would like to
focus on one particular.
Now we're going to talk aboutall of them, but First Day, an
adoption story, because it doeshit so close to home for me.
I've adopted all five of mykids, definitely yes, and every
one of our stories is sodifferent.
(00:57):
You say First Day depicts thejourney adoptive parents take to
become a family with theirchild, and this is so
beautifully written andillustrated.
I have to tell you, I openedyour book and the first thing
that I saw was the words born inmy heart forever.
You will stay when I calledmyself your parent that very
first day.
That is a beautiful way tostart your book.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, I had a really good friend who is working in
social working and when Iinitially wrote this book it was
very much inspired by my ownadoption story, which was from
infancy at a hospital with a momand dad, and I shared it with
some friends and I realized thatno one else I knew who was
adopted had the exact same storyas me, and so we scratched it
(01:42):
and we started all over againand my friend in social working
said this would be amazing ifyou could relate to older
children as well.
And so we made a reallyconscious decision as I was
writing this book, to not nameparents, to not name ages, races
, situations and to really justallow for an analogy where
parents could really fill in theblanks to their own child's
story, fill in the blanks totheir own child's story and then
(02:06):
at the end also write in theirchild's story, because it is so
special.
And I've talked to my mom aboutit many times and she said she
wished she had something likethis where she could have
written down little memories andhad even my birth family write
notes in it and given it to meas a gift and read it to me as a
baby and child, and I lovereading it to my kids and
they're biological but I lovetelling them the story about how
mommy became you know, howgrandma became a mommy to their
(02:27):
mom, and I think it's justreally fun and it's a great way
to talk about it and open upthose conversations.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I love how the book is written because it is, you
know, adoption story, but it'salso so unique I mean, it's for
everybody, but unique at thesame time, and that was really
cool that you did that.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It was definitely difficult, because I know that
everyone's adoption stories areso different.
I have friends, who were adoptedby single parents, I have
interracial families, I havesame-sex families, and it's
beautiful, and I see so manybooks out there.
I personally was read Tell MeAgain About the Night you Were
Born, which was the book myparents read to me.
I loved it and it depicted mystory, but it didn't depict
(03:10):
anyone else's that I knew, so Iwanted to make sure that it did,
and I do have a few Easter eggsin there that resonate with me.
I have in the children'sbedroom.
I haven't told anyone this, butso you're going to get a sneak
peek.
In the child's bedroom there'sa Raggedy Ann on the shelf and
there's an elephant on the shelf, and the Raggedy Ann is
something that my birth mothergifted to me.
(03:30):
And now she also gifted them tomy children.
So that's my little Easter eggfor me.
And I had a really dear friendwho passed but he was adopted
and when I was pregnant with myson, his parents gifted me with
his little elephant.
So I wanted to make sure thatthose little pieces of my story
were in the book.
But it allowed for otherchildren to enjoy and see those
(03:54):
images and that maybe they couldpick out little things about
their story, like the first timethey did their handprints with
their parents or theirfootprints or finger painting,
and those are just such littlecore memories that parents have
when they're becoming thatfamily unit.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
All the firsts are so important.
You know, one of the thingsthat I love about your book is
the calendar, and you askfamilies to circle their first
day together.
So can I just say that I'vebeen on.
You know, as I've said, I'vebeen on both sides of this.
I'm adopted and I've adopted on.
You know, as I've said, I'vebeen on both sides of this.
I'm adopted and I've adoptedall of my kids.
25 years ago I adopted my firsttwo and then I've adopted my
(04:35):
three littles, which it wasofficial in 22, but we I've had
them like eight years.
So you know, it took a while, itwasn't fun, but it took a while
.
And I can remember the day thatI met my kids for the first
time, my older two especially.
They were four and three and wemet them at a McDonald's
(04:58):
Playland.
They were playing and you know,we met them briefly and then
one of them started screamingdad, dad.
And Steve was like you know,look who is calling for their
dad and they're not, you know,responding and we're both
looking around for this dad.
That was him.
(05:18):
He didn't realize that it washim because that was the first
time any of us had beenaddressed as parents.
We laughed so hard about that.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Oh, I love that story and it's such like it happens
in the most random places.
I mean, I used to have likethis ideal, as I became a mother
, of like what it would be likeand what you think, but
sometimes those little momentsin a McDonald's are those big
moments.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, I mean, we still laugh about that because
it was just you know, we had noidea.
It's the first time that wewere ever called parents, and
those firsts are just so youknow.
They really are a lifelongmemory.
So you had an open adoption andI find that so interesting to
me.
I did not have an open adoption.
(06:09):
None of my kids have had openadoptions, so maybe you could
tell me a little bit about yourstory.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yeah, well, my parents were in their 40s and so
they went to an agency and theywere told they were a little
bit old, so they had a lawyerwho told them hey, reach out to
everyone you know, reach out tofriends, family, extended family
, just everyone.
Let them know that you're opento adopting and see what happens
(06:36):
.
And they reached out to mymom's aunt and she said well, I
have a friend who's seven monthspregnant down in Florida
looking for an open adoption.
Said, well, I have a friendwho's seven months pregnant down
in Florida looking for an openadoption.
And so my parents flew downfrom DC to Florida and met my
birth mother and my birth sister, who was 16 at the time, at an
Olive Garden.
And my mom said that she wentback to the hotel room with my
(06:59):
dad and said I want that babyand she just fell in love.
They flew home and then I wasborn in late August and she
spent about the whole month ofAugust with my birth mother
connecting with her, connectingwith her belly and she.
One of my favorite stories isshe was in the delivery room
with my birth mother and when Iwas born they swaddled me and
(07:21):
handed her to my birth motherand my understanding is my birth
mother pushed me away and saidgive her to her mom and my mom
was the first one to hold me.
And it just the selflessness,the connection that they had.
And I actually recently heardmy mom is currently visiting me
right now and she told me onthis trip we had gone to Vegas
(07:44):
for my sister's wedding and wewere all sitting at this big
table with all of her weddingparty and a guest had come up to
my mom and said so who are you?
Because we don't hang around,we're not from the area and my
birth mother looked at her andshe said we are their mothers
and they are our daughters.
We are their mothers and theyare our daughters.
(08:08):
And my mom just said it was soclassy, it was so beautiful.
I felt so warm because my birthsister was not adopted.
My birth sister was raised bymy birth mother and we have
different fathers and then I wasraised by my mom and dad.
But I just I remember that andI always remember sitting in the
kitchen with my mom calling mybirth mother on Mother's Day and
my mom talking about me andsaying our daughter is so
beautiful, our daughter, and itwas.
(08:29):
I never felt fearful of talkingabout that and she's never met
my children.
She's never met my husband butwe text, we talk.
She sent them birthday gifts.
We have a really beautifulrelationship and I'm really
lucky to have it.
I have a thyroid issue that Iwas able to text her about and
say hey, do you have issues withyour thyroid?
(08:49):
My birth father has an allergyto amoxicillin, which my
children and me both have.
If I had abandonment problemsbecause of my adoption, if I
felt abandoned or I felt angryat my birth parents and I have
(09:10):
to say that has to be furtherfrom the truth I know that every
situation is different andevery child will have their own
emotions about it and I thinkthat that is so valid and it
needs to be said.
But for me and my experience,it was so beautiful and so open
and I was able to ask thequestions and they were able to
answer and I think that that wasa really important part of my
(09:30):
story and I think other peoplehave more questions that maybe
don't get answered.
My husband was adopted by hisfather oh my goodness.
And even though his mothertries to answer those questions,
I know if they're not answeredfrom that person, sometimes that
wound just never feels fullyclosed and fully healed, and
(09:51):
I've seen that firsthand withhim and his experience.
And I also have friends whowere adopted by single parents
and who just found out abouttheir birth family recently and
ended up finding siblings andflying to meet them and it was
wonderful, but they went.
You know, we're in our 30s now.
They went most of theiradolescence and early adulthood
(10:12):
without having that connectionand they're now having those
answers.
So they're working throughthose things now.
But every story is different andthat's really what I wanted to
depict in First Day, becauseevery story is is so different
and every child's experience,every family's experience is so
different and diverse andbeautiful and complicated, just
like every other family'sjourney.
(10:33):
It's not just adoption, it'severyone's family is different,
and so being able to put thatout there so that people can
connect with that, children cansee themselves on the cover, I
think is just really importantto allow for that conversation
and to just start it and allowkids to feel all the feelings,
have all the emotions, you know,feel safe in their environment,
(10:55):
feel safe with their mom, feelsafe with their dad and, you
know, call the mom and dad forthe first time in a McDonald's.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, and it is.
There's so many mixed emotionswith adoption.
It's very, it can be verycomplicated, but I think that
that gift that your parents gaveyou all of them collectively
together to make that decision,to keep it open is it's so
beautiful and that, you know,for your birth mom I would think
(11:27):
, and I don't know, that mighthave made her feel better and
more of a relief, knowing youknow I'm giving my child to
these people to raise and havethem be her parents for her life
.
And I don't know that's such ahard decision, I'm sure, for
your birth mom and what a reliefthat must have been for her to
(11:50):
have such a great relationshipwith your adoptive parents.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, I definitely think it was the ideal.
My mom actually, after adoptingme, became an adoption agent
for most of my life and is nowretired, so we really had a lot
of adoption around us, and thestories that I heard of
different adoption situationswhere it was supposed to be open
and it became closed, or if Idid not to give children you
(12:18):
know all of the information, orany information you know I
really felt lucky to have thatsituation.
I did, however, have a momentwhen I was 18 where my birth
father confronted me saying thathe wasn't sure I was his.
That's why his family was neverforward with me and we did a
DNA test.
It came back.
I had texted my birth mothersaying, and she said nope, I
(12:41):
know it, you're good, if youwant to do it, go for it, but I
can tell you and he wanted tomeet me immediately.
His family did, and it took meuntil I was 23 to go down and
meet them because it was just alot to digest and I needed to
process that information andprocess it with my parents, and
you know they told me that hehad wanted that when I was
little and they had said, no,I'd been poked and prodded
(13:03):
enough, and if I became of age,that's a decision I could make
and that's, I think, somethingthat was really helpful, not
just in that scenario, butgiving me the reins in a very
controlled, safe way, I think ingeneral, is good parenting.
I mean, you should never letyour kid drive a car when
they're five.
But, you know, turn the car off, let them sit in the seat,
(13:26):
touch the wheel.
It, you know, negates a tantrumwhen sitting waiting for, you
know, chick-fil-a.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
But you don't know what you know.
You're opening up like a youknow your box of memories and
your box of what ifs and couldbe's and all these different
things, and you don't knowwhat's in that box.
I mean it's so uncertain andnot everybody's story.
When they go and open that boxis a great story and you know
(13:54):
you, it's funny because whenyou're little and you think
especially and I did know that Iwas adopted but you think, oh
well, my mom's, this princessand she's you know all these
wonderful things, and thensometimes it just doesn't work
out that way and it can beheartbreaking in some respects.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Oh, 100 percent.
And I think managing thoseexpectations if a child does
want to pursue that is important.
I think managing thoseexpectations if a child does
want to pursue that is important, and being able to tell them
that they're allowed to feelwhatever they feel.
But that also means that theirbiological family is going to
feel how they want to feel andthat they might not feel the
same and they might wantdifferent outcomes.
And, just like any relationship, it does take two and we can
(14:43):
want things really, really badly.
And if they don't want it too,then we can work through it on
our own and all we can controlis our own thing.
So if we choose to leave thatdoor open, we can, but they
might not always do the same, orthey might want that door open
and we might not feel ready todo that just yet.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, we had to find mine.
I mean, we kind of knew bitsand pieces because you know you
get this file, they got thisfile with me and we found out
some things and we knew that itprobably wasn't a great
situation.
But then my adopted dad hadpassed away when he was 11, when
(15:18):
I was 11.
Sorry.
And so, yeah, it and he was myperson, and so then life kind of
, you know, just blew up afterthat.
Nothing was great, and then Iwent a really bad path and so
then, and I think, a lot of thethings that had happened to me
before I was adopted, and thenhere's my dad gone and
(15:41):
everything, it just kind of allcame together and I wasn't able
to handle it very well and I'malso autistic on top of it, so
it just kind of hit me reallyhard.
And so then we did go on thissearch for my parents and I
don't think she was very happythat we found her, but we did
(16:01):
through an investigator and Idid have a very brief
relationship with her and it wasnot that great.
I'm glad that I did it.
It was something that I neededto do and I think that a lot of
people do, because it reallycloses those.
You know, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I don't know.
There's a whole chapter withinourselves that belongs to that
part that we need to address andhave maybe some closure on
honeymoon idea of the princessesand the castle kind of go away
and it gives you a little bit ofa reality check where you're
like, okay, like there's,there's a reason I was adopted.
There was a reason.
You know that my parents are myparents now and you know I
(16:56):
couldn't believe that more.
My mom and dad were meant to bemy mom and dad and that's who
were meant to adopt me and raiseme and give me all these skills
and right, and that's how itwas meant to happen.
But I do think finding birth,family or information, their
story, I think helps figure outwho we are, because that is like
(17:27):
a puzzle piece that we feellike is either missing or just a
little bit out of place.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
And all of my kids have, even though one's 30,
one's 29, and then these threeare 11, 9, and 8.
And every single one of themhas addressed this issue with
the biological parents verydifferently.
And my older one, she reallyneeded that, she had to have
that connection, that connection.
(18:00):
And my 29-year-old, she stillhas yet to want that.
She just doesn't want anythingto do with that.
We talk all the time.
She's just, you know, I'm hermom and she's good with that and
she doesn't need that.
And my younger three aresiblings, and so they all.
They ask a lot of questions andI answer them because I think
that that's important, ageappropriate.
And we've gotten more and more,you know, direct with the
(18:23):
answers, the older that they get.
But that's something as wellthat they're going to have to
figure out as life goes on.
So, and you're right, beingable to just say, hey, you know,
this is on your decision as youget older and what you want to
do.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, and I think that that like the age
appropriate honesty, I think,like I've talked to some of my
friends who are biologicalchildren and they have
biological children themselvesand I ask them and I say, well,
with your mom, do you have acloser relationship with her
about things that you guys cantalk about?
Or does it create kind of aweird gap if there's things that
(19:00):
she just won't talk about, andit's always well, yeah, if
there's stuff we can't talkabout, it always kind of creates
a bit of a gif or a gap, and soit's like, you know, it's the
same with adoption.
So my dad is a little bit moreclosed about me talking about my
birth family.
He feels a little bit morethreatened about any
relationship that I have with mybirth father.
He sees himself as my dad.
You know, he just that's whathe wants.
(19:22):
He doesn't.
He kind of wants to forget thebiological side of it, and so
it's hard because I can't reallytalk to him.
I have to, you know, kind ofsecretly text my birth father
happy father's day, or, you know, if he does contact me, I can't
really talk about it with him,which is sad and that's a loss,
but I feel lucky to be able toask my mom questions and talk to
her and you know, just havethat.
(19:57):
That's biological cousin andit's cool.
It's really interesting to havesuch a mixed kind of fun family
.
You know there's more branches,more people to love, more
places to go If my kids want totravel.
There's more people, I trust,around the country.
You know that's awesome.
You know, just be a call away,a little bit closer, so it's
nice, it's a really niceconnection.
(20:19):
But everyone's is different andso, like you were saying, with
your children having thosequestions and then your daughter
not really wanting that andjust feeling like, nope, that's
my mom, I'm good, that's great,that's perfectly normal.
I feel like everyone'sexperienced how they want to
handle it.
Yeah, like awesome, like I lovethe.
(20:39):
I love when kids and evenadults just advocate for
themselves, like this is what Ineed and I'm good, like that's
just, it's so important.
And when you're in an adoptionsetting for children to just be
like, hey, mom, can I ask aboutmy birth mom?
It's like sure, honey, what doyou need to ask?
Like advocate for what youwould like to know.
(21:04):
You know we will be as open aswe feel is appropriate, but we
will always be honest about theinformation.
You know, and it's just, it'sgreat, it's so awesome because
it's raising those independentthinkers where they can just say
what they need.
You know, be out, there, be thesqueaky wheel.
You know, when callinginsurance companies, it's just,
it gives them strength and a lotof like defensive stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Oh, absolutely oh.
And my older two have noproblem advocating yeah, but you
know there's another side to ittoo, because it wasn't about
being threatened so much as amom.
There was some of that there ifthey wanted to connect with
their birth mom, but the otherpart of it was in their
(21:40):
situation.
It was not good, it was justnot good.
I knew what was on the otherside of that door and I wanted
to.
You know, as their mom, I wantto protect them.
I don't.
You have to be so careful inhow you address those types of
(22:01):
things and when it's okay tolike open that door a crack and
then to the point where you'reready to say, okay, you can go
through and this is what's onthe other side and I'll be there
for you as you go through this,but it's scary.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
When she got remarried, his dad was like I'm
going to adopt this baby boy andhe's just a phenomenal person.
But when I actually got engagedto my husband, his mom pulled
me aside and told me some reallygruesome details about his
biological father and said don'ttell him.
And I said oh no, no, no, no.
I said you need to tell him.
He holds so much guilt, thinkingthat he was why his dad didn't
(22:57):
want him, and he's been holdingthat.
He's 39 years old and he's beenholding it his whole life
wondering why his dad didn'twant him.
You need to open up.
And I went home with him and Isaid, mike, your mom told me
some things would you like herto tell you or would you like me
to tell you, because I knowshe's okay about it?
Okay, this is your informationand I've been given it and I
(23:20):
don't want it.
I don't want to hold it fromyou because I feel like, as
someone who's adopted, the worstthing that happened was when
people kept secrets and knewthey were secrets.
Oh right.
So I'm like you know, if you donot want this information to
come from your fiance and youwant it to come from mom, that
is completely your right.
I right, I am letting you knowthere is information that you
deserve to know.
I'm open to telling you what Iam aware of at this point, but
(23:44):
you and your mom need to have asit down conversation.
He asked to tell me and wespent probably until 3 am just
talking, crying, coping, just,and I could physically see it
coming off of his chest of justunaware of the situations, of
what his mother went through, ofwhat he went through, his
family went through, and it wasjust like.
Like it brings tears to my eyesnow because just thinking about
(24:06):
it where it really is and it'slike when is the right time?
Is it when they're in theirlate 30s?
Is it when they're 10 or 11?
Is it when they're out of highschool?
They're out of high school,like it's really.
It's so hard as a parent to knowwhen to stop protecting them
from information that you knowwill be hurtful and you know
will be hard for them to hearand it's scary and it's unknown.
(24:27):
And each child, I know, isdifferent and has different
emotions and different feelings.
You know big feelings, littlefeelings, and it's like when do
I, like you said, open the doorand let them walk in and let
them know that I will be here?
It's like when is that righttime?
Is there a too late?
Is there a too soon?
You know all these questions and, again, it's not just adoption,
(24:48):
it's life, it's raisingchildren.
When do you tell them about thethings going on in the world?
When do you tell them aboutpolitics?
When do you introduce all ofthese things that are so scary?
And what if they find out ontheir own?
What if they find out on socialmedia?
What if they do a 23andMe andfind out things from a person
that I know is not safe?
(25:10):
But I couldn't control thatcommunication?
You know, there's so manywhat-ifs, there's so many
thoughts of what could happen,what should happen, and, as
their moms, all we want to do isprotect them and we want to be
there.
And I had someone recently tellme she has a 31 year old and she
said I just want to go back towhen a hug would fix everything.
And I just feel that becauseright now my kids are at the age
(25:33):
where a hug fixes everythingand it just one day that's not
going to fix everything, one daythat's not going to help them
with grades and it's not goingto help them with college
tuition.
You know they're going to needmore and we're going to figure
out how to walk the pathtogether and you know, one day
they're going to walk throughthese doors that are scary and
I'm going to hold their hand andI'm going to be there and I'm
(25:54):
going to try and get themprepared and give them enough
skills in life to be able tohandle those situations, but
really it's an unknown, yeah andthat's really all that we can
do as parents, and it's harderthe older they get to be able to
let go of those reins and letthem All.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Three of my kids are special needs.
They have autism and ADHD,dyslexia.
They have all the things Ithink like from A to Z, and
there was a lot of trauma.
There was a lot of trauma.
So you know, it's just such acomplex situation and every day
(26:31):
we have to ask how are we goingto handle this?
And you know, honestly, I couldbe doing it wrong there.
There could be days where Ishould have told them something
or I should have, and.
But I'm doing my best and Ithink that we all and I think
(26:52):
you know adoption is can be in avery selfless self.
It's.
It's not a selfish thing whereyou're trying to, like, bring in
these kids and take over thissituation from this other family
, and you know, and I'm and it'snot like that and we could be
really messing up along the way,but I think that we're really
(27:14):
trying to do our best.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah.
So I think that's all that wecan ask of ourselves and of our
kids is just do our best.
And then tomorrow we're goingto do our best and maybe it'll
be a little better, and my momtells me she goes you're going
to try your best not to make themistakes I made, and then your
children are going to try not tomake the mistakes that you made
, and then it's just a cyclewhere we're trying not to do
those things.
You know my mom was never greatabout holidays and I'm now
(27:40):
going overkill.
And for all I know my kidscould be like whoa mom too much.
Right after Thanksgiving, thetrees going up like absolutely
not.
When I grow up, I'm putting thetree up the day before
Christmas.
You know something that theydeal with.
But you know we're just, we'redoing our best and we're being
honest as much as we can.
(28:00):
And my parents oh, go ahead,sorry.
Yeah, no, that's what myparents did.
They tried their best and theywere honest, and that's all I
could ask, because that's allthey could do you know I can't
ask for people to do more.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
As an adoptive parent , one of the best gifts that
anybody can give me my kids cangive me is just to call me mom.
You know, I mean from the firsttime I've ever heard it, and it
never gets old, it is just themost precious word.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I know my mom had a moment when I was, I think, two
or three, where my birth motherwrote them they were writing
back and forth for the first twoyears of my life and said I'd
really like to meet Sasha.
And my mom said, oh, all right,let's fly.
And I asked her recently andshe said I can't remember if it
was to Florida or to Maine, butshe said the whole flight her
heart was racing because she hadthis idea that I was going to
(28:53):
have a cosmic connection to mybirth mother and I hadn't seen
her since I was 30 days old.
But she was like she's going torun to this woman open-armed.
I mean, she's going to knowit's her mom, she's going to
smell her.
Like she had all these thoughtsrunning.
And she said they got to theairport and my birth mother was
there and she said I walkedbehind her and I stuck my head
out from between her legs, justlike I did with every other
(29:13):
stranger I met and she goes thatentire trip.
I was just hanging on to herleg.
You know I'd laugh with mybirth mother.
I was a two and a half year oldI.
You know I loved everybody.
But she said more than ever.
On that trip I was just reallyattached to my mom and she said
that just really.
I was your mom.
I was the one who stayed upwith you late at night.
I was the one who knew yourfood preferences.
(29:34):
I was the one who knew how youliked your juice, how you liked
putting your shoes on.
It's the littlest things, butto a child that's mom.
That's my mom, the woman whobirthed me.
I'm grateful.
I have love for her.
I refer to her as she's adistant aunt who I have love for
.
She messaged me.
I send her pictures of the kidsever so often.
(29:56):
I love seeing them and lovegetting updates.
But you know she's a distantaunt.
My kids wouldn't recognize herin a crowd and my mom is granny
or didi and that's their grandmaand my mom walks into the house
and my son goes Grandma, thisis my home and he's just, he
adores my mom.
You know we dropped off thetrain station before station
(30:16):
before and he's just likewhere's my Deedee?
Speaker 1 (30:20):
And it's like that's grandma.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
That's mom.
That's our person.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
You know you use a word and you've used it here on
the podcast and I think it'sother than the word mom.
It's one of the biggest wordswhen it comes to adopted kids
and that's chosen, that word.
Chosen is.
It's such a special word to bechosen.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
It is and we needed that right at the beginning of
the book that our children arechosen and they are ours.
You know you're their parentsand again, I didn't want mom or
dad to be there just fordifferent types of family
dynamics.
They needed to be able to fillthat in and have that for
themselves and that they're bornin our hearts and that you
(31:10):
really become a parent when youmeet that child and have that
special moment.
And that's something I reallywant to bunny hop with this book
is when I was pregnant with mychildren.
I had pregnancy books and Ihaven't really been able to find
one for adoption and foradoptive families, and so my
goal is to make kind of asibling to this book.
(31:30):
That allows for it tocompletely be a fill in the
blank where it has everythingfrom.
You know, did you have socialworkers?
Did you have foster siblings?
What were you wearing when yourparents met you for the first
time?
You know all of these detailsthat are specific to adoption,
because my kids were biological.
They were naked, but you knowwhat were other children wearing
(31:51):
?
Were you wearing a tie?
Did they put you in yourfavorite shirt?
Did you have a favorite stuffedanimal or a blanket, or did you
hang on to a pillow that youhad for the longest time with a
special pillowcase?
And so I really want to createsomething like that for birth
families to have these promptsto fill out that are also very
specific to every child, whereyou can just fill in what fits
(32:12):
for their situation.
And it's beautiful.
They can have it just like abiological child has their
pregnancy books with theirultrasounds.
They have the pictures and thelittle memories of those little
things that it's so hard to holdon to.
Every single thing.
You know the first outfit, thefirst time we went to get ice
cream, the first time you had acheeseburger, the first time we
(32:32):
ate at this dining table, whatdid we eat?
All those things you know, andit's hard to hang on to all
those things.
So having a place for it, youknow, within your folder of
their adoption, it's, I thinkit's special.
It's something I would havereally cherished to know about
those details, you know, I knowI lived in a long stay Marriott
when I was born and so it's like, oh, would there have been a
place for, like the ticket stubwhich I just could have hung on
(32:55):
to as such a cool littlescrapbook thing, or, you know,
did you take me on the train,because I love trains.
And so the first day we weretogether you said, okay, we're
going to go on the train and wewent on a ride around the city
and just everyone's story is sobeautiful and there is a place
for it.
So it's just about finding wherewe can put it, and so if I can
(33:16):
help make a space for thosestories to be told and cherished
and hung on to, then that'swhat I want to do as an adoptee
and it is hard because I'm notan adoptive parent.
So my mom actually wrote theback of First Day.
So if you look at the very backof it, my mom was the one who
wrote that I had asked her to bea part of it and my dad helped
edit it as well and I sent acopy to my birth mother and she
(33:40):
actually shared it with thelawyer who helped with my
adoption and she wrote me andshe said it brought a tear to my
eye.
It's like one of those momentswhere a puzzle piece kind of
falls into place, where you'relike they're proud, they know
that this was our story, youknow, and it just it was really
(34:00):
special.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
We are so much alike.
I mean every single memory.
I like to clip and have allthese different things and I
like I.
We went to the Wicked movie theother day, and so I have that
ticket stub and I like to createthese memories.
I have these boxes, you know,and it's just so crazy because I
(34:25):
just want to hold on toeverything.
Everything is just so important.
Like you said, I want them to be, and my one son was just
looking at one of my books fromwhen I was a lot younger and he
just pulled it out and he'slooking at it.
And that's why, you know,because you want to be able to
open those books and feel thosesame feels and, you know,
(34:49):
remember and pass it down.
And I've even gone around andstarted taking pictures of the
things in her house thatbelonged to generations before
me, because I want to make abook of those, with what they
are and what they meant, becauseI want them to understand look,
my dad made this right beforehe passed away.
(35:10):
That's why it's so important,and this was my mom's, whatever
you know.
And I want them to be able toopen that book and know, know,
and then their kids and theirkids know what these things are.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
And so when they're older, you know, some people
might not be in their lives,some people might pass, they
(35:46):
might have friends that theydon't stay connected with, but
they'll have these little notesfrom their birthdays of like wow
, like that's so much fun, likeI wonder where they are now or I
remember them, or oh, I lovedthis person and I remember they
passed.
So it's special that I havethese handwritten notes from
these people that were justformed.
I just it's so special to havethose little things and I keep
all of their cards.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I have shoe boxes my husband makes oh my gosh, you're
so much like me.
Oh my gosh, I'm the same way oh, it's so bad.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
I have so much and even like for my books I have
like the sketches and thedrawings and how we need it to
be and everything, and just it'shanging on to those little
things.
So, like, I loved having like apregnancy book, so I'm like, oh
, like, obviously there needs tobe more for like adoption.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
There isn't very much out there.
You know, we weren't talkingabout the things that we keep.
My mom had this in her houseand I have it in my house.
It was a saying that reallymeans a lot to me and it goes
something like not flesh of myflesh nor bone of my bone, but
still miraculously my own.
I didn't forget for a singleminute.
(36:52):
You didn't grow under my heart,but in it, you know, and it's
just such beautiful words.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah, I love that, I think the line from the book
where you don't have my ankles,my feet or my toes, but yes,
that was so good when our lovegrows and it's.
I remember I initially hadsomething about your smile and I
had contacted some people thatmy mom used to work with in
adoption and she's an adoptedmom and she wrote, and she goes
(37:22):
well, children often mimic theirmom's smile, so our smiles are
actually like our mom's, whetheradopted or not.
So we ended up changing thatline because I realized I do
kind of have my mom's smile,even though I'm adopted.
I see her and that's what Igrew up with the smile in my
face and the smile, and so I Isee her smile in mine, and so we
(37:44):
made sure that that was becausethey do, they do have our smile
and I really like that idea oflike I did get things from her
and I did inherit things likehow I do my hair and what type
of skin I use and you know, ohsure, those we get those, yeah,
yeah, because we did side byside with them, we did life with
(38:04):
them.
Exactly, and it's that natureversus nurture, where, like, I
maybe don't have a baby toenailbecause that was a biological
thing from one of mygrandparents.
But that's such a smallfraction of who I am as a person
and I feel that the majority ofme is nurture.
It's what I was around, how Iwas raised, the skills I was
(38:26):
given for how to handle life.
You know my education, thepeople that my parents put me
around, my friends.
You know that's really whatshaped me, because if you think
about the type of person youcould have been if you weren't
in that situation and howdifferent you would be, it
really opens your eyes to like,wow, like I am because I was
raised by these people, becauseI was raised by my mom and dad,
(38:51):
I am this way.
I'm living in this house.
I had the experiences I did, Itraveled, you know.
I met my husband because myparents hated motorcycles and I
needed to do a little bit ofrebelling.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Yeah, that's awesome.
You know some of the mostbeautiful stories I hear because
I'm really into American Idoland when the Olympics were on
and those stories were and theyalways go into these backstories
of adoptions and I owe my lifeto this person who took me in
(39:24):
and, you know, raised me astheir own and they really are
the most beautiful stories.
So and I really connect withthem.
And you know, talk about thesmile my dad and I have.
We had a picture of me and apicture of him and we had the
exact same smile.
We both had like this, you know, one-sided smile and it was
(39:49):
both on the same side.
So I still keep them togetherbecause it just means so much to
me that, even though he wasgone when I was 11 years old, so
much of him still lives insideof me.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Oh, definitely, yeah, that's so special and I love
that.
Like you said, like hearingadoption stories, hearing
success, family stories,creating bigger families.
I follow these people thatfoster to adopt on social media
and I'm just like, so like, I'mlike'm like, oh my gosh, like
it's so beautiful.
They have like three differentSantas to make sure that each of
(40:21):
their children's races arerepresented within.
Oh, that's so cool.
And I'm just like, oh my gosh,like they're just thinking so
deeply about what their childrenneed and want, and even if
their children aren't asking forit, they're just they're
thinking so deeply about like,what can I do to connect with my
child so that they feelconnected with my family?
And I'm like, oh, yes, like-that's so awesome it is, it's
(40:48):
beautiful and it's just.
You know, how do we?
How do we do that like it's andwe're all trying to figure it
out.
Like you said, we could bedoing it all wrong, but it's
like we're trying our best, youknow, and that's all we can do
and I absolutely love that andseeing it and having that, even
just like on social media withmy books, like just being out in
the world, putting thatpositivity, putting those
(41:08):
stories out there, justreinforce that and just help so
much, because I know people havetraumatic stories and hard
stories and there's adoptees outthere sharing their stories,
saying that adoption is theseterrible things and it is
terrible what these people gothrough.
And there is a light and a dark, there is a bad and a good.
(41:29):
There's always bad people inthe world, there's always bad
things happening, but there'salso good and that can't be
forgotten and that can't beovershadowed by Absolutely.
Adoption is a good intent, it'sa good love, it's good to make
families and I see stories of 16, 17-year-olds about to age out
(41:54):
and your heart just breaksbecause you're like who are they
going to go home to, like whoare what's going to happen?
Like you just start having allthese thoughts, like as an
adoptee, I'm like, well, whatwould have happened?
Speaker 1 (42:04):
I used to work at a shelter for kids who were a, b,
didn't have any parents and theywere all older.
So you know, I ended up havingsome at my house for Christmas
and things like that.
I mean it was a really greatexperience, but I felt really
bad for them and one of themshowed up on my doorstep when he
(42:25):
did age out I mean he was 18.
He had nowhere to go.
I mean, lots of times back thenand it might be different now,
I'm not really sure, but youknow, the shelter door opens,
you're 18.
Bye, and they still don't haveanywhere to go.
So there were a lot of gapsback then and I hope that they
have more services now for kidsthat because they have no skills
(42:49):
a lot of them and most peoplerely on their parents to help
them to that next step.
You know we all do.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Oh yeah, college tuition jobs, helping even write
a resume, getting a resume,planning for that, you know,
having internships, you know Iworked at my mom's job over the
summer I'd help, you know, filepaperwork at my dad's.
I mean these are little thingsbut they prepared me for the
workforce, they prepared me,boosted my resume.
You know, spell check All thoselittle things home and create
(43:26):
families.
And when a child doesn't havethat and they age out, it's an
unimaginable loss for people whodo not have the family to come
home to the mom to call, whenthey're having a hard day, the
dad to lean on.
That's it.
That's it.
Yeah, I mean I know they haveeach other and I know I've seen
a lot of these children who doage out.
(43:47):
They really stay connected totheir foster siblings and to
other children and they justthey band together and that is
their family and I mean they'vecreated that what they do their
own family or they deserve thatmother, father figure, that mom
figure, dad, aunt, uncles.
I mean every child deserves that.
(44:08):
They deserve to be tucked in atnight, they deserve to know
where home is.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
I say all the time family is not blood.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
It's not.
Oh my gosh, if it was, thenoops.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
You know, I want to talk a little bit about my kids
just for a couple minutes.
I mean, I knew, the moment thatI held my youngest son, that he
was mine Before he was mine.
You know, no matter how oldthey are really, and I don't
(44:54):
think that you can explain it ifyou've never experienced it.
I say that because I say all ofthis, because he was born and
handed to me.
I didn't get him until he wastwo months.
I still really just knew thatthis was going to happen.
That bond was just establishedlike right there.
(45:18):
Now my older ones they tooktime because four and three and
then my other one was 18 monthsand my other one was a
non-verbal, almost four-year-old, and it just it takes more time
for that to happen.
Did I know and did I love themjust as much?
(45:40):
Yes, but on their end, I knewthat there was a lot coming in
and you have to be a lot morecautious in how you handle the
child that is being adopted andcoming into your home.
I can remember and this isreally funny my now 29-year-old,
the one that I'm mom and that'sit.
(46:00):
She was so funny.
We had just gotten her and shewas playing in the other room
and I was in the kitchen.
She runs up to me and she saysyou took me without saying
please.
And I said well, will youplease live with us, will you
(46:23):
please let me be your mom?
And she just went, yep, andthen she ran off and played.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
It was so funny.
I love that.
Have you seen the movie InstantFamily with Mark Wahlberg?
No, I have not.
Okay, this is something thatI'm going to recommend to any
adoptee, adopter, adoptivefamily connect.
It is a true story about acouple who adopted three
children out of foster care, ateenager and two younger
(46:53):
children, and it you know, youhad this mom moment I remember
you were saying with your dadand they had that depicted in
the movie, where the little girlwalks up to her, her foster
father, and says can you help mewith my dolly?
My dolly needs help.
And he helped her and she saysthanks, daddy, and both parents
looked at each other and the momfollowed her and said I want
some of that.
(47:13):
Do you need any of it?
And it's just, it's so real.
I showed my mom and my mom'slike eyes were watering the
whole movie where she's likeit's so real, the issues you
have, like you know, an olderchild wanting to paint their
room black.
It's like, okay, not what Iwould have thought, but that's
you Like, whatever works.
(47:34):
It's like the first timedisciplining your child,
especially when they're a littleolder.
It's like I don't want them tohate me, but also I need to
discipline them because that'smy job as their parent is to
teach them right and wrong.
And I have to do these thingsand it's hard and you have
self-doubt.
And my mom told me one timethat parents of a child came in
and he was 13 and they said ourchild hates us.
(47:56):
He says he wished he was neveradopted.
What do we do?
And she said I was not adoptedand I always told my parents
that I wish I was.
That's awesome.
She said some days yourteenager is not going to like
you and that's okay it's true,that's normal parenting.
He's like I did not like myparents and my parents were not
(48:16):
my adoptive parents, becausethat's normal.
It's normal for your child tohave questions and to use
buttons that they have, and hisbutton is the adoption button,
so that's going to be used.
Some days when he's really madbecause he doesn't want to do
his homework or clean his roomor he's grounded from playing
video games, it's okay.
And it's like it's validatingthat feeling of it's okay to be
(48:37):
scared and you're his mom anddad, it's okay.
Like this is, you have a verynormal mother-son relationship
and some days it's really hard.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Yeah, I mean, I've heard the words from one of my
kids, older kids.
Well, you know, you're not mymom, you know, and those are
words that really sting.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Oh it's.
I'm guilty of saying thosewords as an adolescent and I've
apologized profusely to my momfor those as an adult and she
would say well, I knew I was, sothat was a me thing that I had
to work out and I had to besecure enough to really, you
know, take it, because therewere going to be days that were
(49:23):
hard for you and you were youngand you had big emotions and big
words and I, to this day, I'mstill in awe that she took those
because they were such blows, Iknow, to her and to my dad.
And I had a lot of issues likeyou were saying, like, similarly
, where I dropped out of highschool, I took random paths that
(49:45):
weren't safe.
I did bad things.
I did all the stuff.
I lived a very full young lifeand I'm very grateful that I
came out of the other sidesafely and healthy without a rap
sheet.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
I say that too, and I did all the twists and turns
and went on a lot of roads Ishould not have and I don't know
, do you?
This is an interestingconversation, actually, because
I know a lot of adoptive.
It doesn't matter when you'vebeen adopted.
I wonder if there is like thislittle thing that we feel that
(50:20):
disconnect, connection, thatlittle gap that happened in our
life that takes us down thatavenue.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure.
I have friends who are adoptedwho've definitely done very
straight narrow what the kind ofexpectation of adolescence was.
But I've also seen a lot ofindividuals who really are
eccentric with their choices ofyoung life and I don't know.
(50:50):
I'm kind of I don't know whatto expect with my own children.
I'm assuming they're going tokind of run wild, similarly to
my husband and I, and I don'tknow if that's biological or if
they're just being nurtured bypeople who did that.
But I think that, no matter what, when you're being raised,
whether it's your biologicalparents or your adoptive parents
(51:13):
, I think there's always thisfeeling of have I been doing
what they want me to do or am Idoing what I would have been?
I wonder what would havehappened.
I need to find myself a littlebit more and go off the deep end
occasionally.
(51:34):
But again, having those parentswho are in your corner, having
your mom, having your dad inyour corner, unlike those
children that age out to bethere as your safety net, and
almost knowing that it's like Ican only explain it as like
you're just testing boundarieswhere you're like do you still
love me if I do this?
Will you still be my parents ifI do that and having that
(51:57):
almost reassurance, and thengetting through it, you're like
okay, I can literally do justabout anything and I can still
come home because you're mom anddad, and so maybe it's that.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
It's another level of finding ourselves, I think, and
I think with the adoptionprocess, you know, we are trying
to find ourselves and there isan identity and all those things
that come with it and who am I?
But yeah, I think that thatadds a different, a more complex
level, I guess you can say ontrying to find ourselves.
(52:29):
And it also depends on tryingto find ourselves.
And it also depends on when youwere adopted.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
Yeah, so the experience you had before your
adoption, Absolutely the baggageyou bring with you, the stories
, the connections.
I know people who were adopteda little bit older and they have
foster siblings that they stillare connected with today and
they're adults and they wereadopted by different families.
They had different situationsbut they stayed pen pals, video
chats, I mean they were for lackof a better word siblings their
(52:58):
entire life, just raised bydifferent parents at that point,
because they had such a strongconnection as young children in
foster care.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
So when you said that , I mean what made you just say
you know what?
I am going to write this bookfor the masses with your such.
You have such a beautifuladoption story.
So what made you want to dothat and spread this for all?
Because one of my favoriteparts is that you do get to
write your own story.
(53:28):
In fact, I think I'm going todo that with my kids.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Actually we've added 10 more pages to that, so it's
much longer, because I didn't.
Once I got the first copy, I'mlike, oh, we need to add like at
least 10 more.
So it's much longer now.
I my first book I wrote wasFirst Night and it was about my
connection to my biologicalchildren and that was really
special to me and it was aconnection that I had with my
daughter while she was sleepingon my chest and my mom was
(53:55):
actually here and my daughterwould not settle for her and I
was trying to do dishes oranything else not baby related,
because I was burnt out.
And I remember walking in theroom, picking her up from my mom
and she immediately settled andmy mom said oh, she knows your
heartbeat, she just that's whatshe knows.
She knows you, your mom.
And I remember thinking tomyself did my mom have that
(54:16):
experience?
Or you know, because she wasmom from day one, but did I?
Was that a fear that she hadthat she wouldn't be enough even
for the infant, the infant,that the smell wouldn't be the
same that the heartbeat?
You know, were those thoughtsthat she had.
So when I wrote First Night, Iknew that I wanted to write
another book that depicted mystory, but I was an adopted
(54:39):
parent so I sent this out.
It probably took me.
Over this whole year I've beendoing research and connecting
with people and figuring out theart and originally the cover
was going to be three hands ofdifferent races making the
adoption symbol.
And I was talking to my artistabout it and actually the front
cover was on the internal pages,and when we came up with the
(55:03):
sketches and she sent me thefirst copy of everything, I said
, oh, this needs to be the cover, that's the cover.
And so we completely changed itbecause I said I want children
to see this book and say that'sme, that's me, that's my sister,
that's my brother, that's what,mommy looks like.
That's what daddy looks like andI really wanted that to
encompass every child, not justthree different skin tones or
(55:23):
three different age groups.
So we really tried hard becauseI wanted to share it with all
of my friends and family who areadopted and I had to figure out
a way.
How do I do this?
How do I make?
They had a very short journeybut they were trying to adopt
from Asia at the time and theyhad said there was a five-year
(55:54):
waiting list, so they wereprepared for that.
And so I remember I'm dyslexic,so I'm very visual and so I
remember visualizing this pathwhere the forest is just full of
clocks because you have no idea.
And you're kind of going downthis path where you have no idea
(56:15):
where it's going to take you,it maybe feels a little bit
scary and it's just there's noamount of time, you never know.
Like you said, you held yourbaby and then it was two months
and then it took eight years andit's hard and it's this path
that's traveled and soeverything really allowed for
analogies where there's a boatand a plane and hiking and a
train and it's like you knowsome people it's just flying
(56:36):
down to Florida to meet an olivegarden, other people, it's
flying around the world andtaking buses through unknown
areas that they've never been tomeet their children.
And so allowing for thosestories and to create those
analogies and I remember thehandprint one was really
difficult for me because I saidhow do I create an imagery that
(56:57):
is, you know, a more perfectlaugh, like, how do I visualize
a laugh?
And it's like what do you dowith your kids about laughing?
You're doing art with them,you're playing with them, them
you're getting dirty and muddyand getting fingerprints
everywhere.
And so we had that page of kidscan see their hands and it again
allows just for any child ofany age, because every parent I
(57:18):
know has taken their kidshandprints, has done their
footprints, have done fingerthing, and it's just, it's as
universal as we could do, um, ona paperback book from Amazon.
But I have so Very beautifullyillustrated.
Yeah, I absolutely love myartist.
I've used her for five out ofmy six books and we're
continuing to work together onother books and she's just, we
(57:42):
visualize each other so well andwe can just really bounce off
of each other.
And she has a specialconnection to adoption and so it
really has a special connectionto adoption.
Speaker 1 (57:53):
And so it really was a special book for both of us.
Well, it is very specialbecause I think adopted kids are
very special and I mean, comeon, we're chosen.
Yeah, yeah, and you know this isreally funny a little bit about
choosing, because ourcaseworker sat down with us and
(58:15):
painted this absolute worst casescenario.
You know, we're sitting infront for the first time,
wanting to be parents, and theyhave you go to parenting classes
and all these things, and italmost feels like they're trying
to talk you out of it in a way,because they're like, well, you
could end up with kids who are,you know, and just the worst,
(58:37):
and they could have alcoholismin their background and all
these different things.
And I'm just sitting there andI'm okay, okay, all right.
And then she says are you stillsure that you want to do this?
And I'm like, well, if theywere born for me, they would
have the same background.
(58:58):
So what's the difference?
Speaker 2 (59:01):
I know that's like the craziest thing is like I've
asked people where I'm like.
Are you what your parentswanted you to be?
And you're biological Like Iknow.
Are you what your parentswanted you to be and you're
biological Like I know?
I know plenty of people who arebiological children and they
are not at all.
You know, dad's a lawyer andnow child is an artist and dad
doesn't approve.
And it's like you don't know.
You never know what you'regoing to get.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
This is the end of part one with Sasha Sedman and
join us next time as we continuethe discussion on her books of
adoption, and one of the onesthat she wrote was Melanade, and
that's an awesome book thatwe're going to talk about
dyslexia and many of her otherchildren's books and if you know
(59:44):
anybody who has dyslexia or anyother disability they might
want to tune into.
Thank you so much for listening.
We will see you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!