August 6, 2025 • 59 mins
John Hair's journey from a one-room schoolhouse basement to becoming the official Olympic sculptor exemplifies resilience and determination against overwhelming odds. His inspiring story shows how talent combined with extraordinary persistence can overcome childhood trauma, family abandonment, and the skepticism of the art world establishment.
• Living with six siblings in a basement with only sheet dividers for rooms during early childhood
• Finding inspiration in World Book Encyclopedia, dreaming of becoming a great artist
• Experiencing orphanage life after his father had to work overseas and mother abandoned the family
• Playing drums professionally from age 14, including jamming with Jimi Hendrix in New York
• Working multiple jobs including cleaning toilets, driving trucks, and running an ad agency
• Beginning his sculpting career at age 49 after two decades as an art director
• Securing his first major commission by waiting five days to meet with a tribal chairman
• Creating over 150 public sculptures including monuments for the Olympics, universities, and historic figures
• Believing figurative art should uplift and inspire rather than follow trendy art world movements
• Continuing to work at nearly 75 years old, refusing to retire or slow down
Don't give up, no matter what the consequences are. Don't give in and have everybody tell you what you should be doing when you know what you should be doing. You just haven't found a way to do it yet.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne and Tina will be backsoon.
John, I recently met you at theMansfield Reformatory for the
30th reunion of the movieShawshank Redemption.
I first walked past you and itwas just a real brief
interaction I don't even know ifyou remember the first time and
then the second time I meanthis was hours later I walked
(00:30):
past you and you were stillsitting there and you're just
sitting there drinking a cup ofcoffee and I'm like, were you in
the movie?
You looked so interesting to me.
I knew that there was somethingabout you and I felt an
immediate connection with youand I wasn't sure why.
So I said, you know, were youin the movie?
And you said, ah, I've been anextra in other movies, but you
(00:52):
know nothing major.
And I was like, so you're kindof famous.
And you're like, oh, I don'tknow.
I said, well, what are youdoing?
Is this?
Do you have a job?
And you said yeah, to watchthis sculpture.
And I was like, uh, I mean thisis a beautiful statue from the
movie and you're watching it.
And you said, yeah, because Imade it.
(01:13):
I mean that's how humble andgracious you really are.
I mean, you just were sononchalant about it.
So long story short, I leftthere and I was just like what
in the world?
Why didn't I ask him to be onthe podcast?
(01:34):
We had such a greatconversation.
I was genuinely in awe of whoyou were.
I came around the corneroutside and I came around the
(02:00):
corner outside.
There was this huge banner thatsaid you could win a $25,000
sculpture from John Hare.
I said his name's John Hare.
I know I have a name now, andso I immediately started
Googling you, even before I gothome, and there you were.
I emailed you, you called meand here we are.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yes, well, thank you so much for doing this, because
I know that you are very, verybusy.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I am pretty busy right now, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Well, I just wanted to give our listeners a brief
introduction to who you are.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
You are the official Olympic sculptor.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
You have created sculptures for even some stars,
because I found some Okay USOlympic Committee, the US Air
Force Academy, computer SciencesCorporation, cities from around
the world like Beijing andShanghai, and the Emmys Hall of
(02:51):
Fame, and over 50 colleges,universities and schools.
I've looked at your sculptures.
All of them are stunning andjust take on the essence of what
you are trying to convey yourOlympic strength.
I mean, it exemplifies strength.
Your historical figures, fromMother Teresa to Abraham Lincoln
(03:14):
, martin Luther King, gandhi,frederick Douglass, george
Washington, to name just ahandful of them, seriously
demonstrate their personalities.
You have over 150 public artcommissions.
(03:35):
That's correct.
I am not kidding when I saythat they are stunning and
everyone listening.
Please go to johnhaircom andcheck out his work.
But before we get into yourbeginnings and check out his
work, but before we get intoyour beginnings, can I ask you
if you could share about theprocess of sculpting and now how
long it takes to make one ofthose really large pieces?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Well, you know, the first thing you have to do is
win the commission because, theyput out a call for artists and
you submit your qualificationsand some samples of your work
and if you make the short listthere can be usually five or ten
other sculptors that are alsoselected.
And then we sculpt a smallerversion of it called the
(04:18):
maquette, and you send that in.
And if they like your maquette,if they like your idea, they
think they, they think they canget the best product from you
then you win the commission.
So almost all the over 150commissions that I've had I've
won like 95% of them.
I've been very fortunate, verylucky really, because in the art
(04:43):
world I'm really a nobody.
Very lucky really Because youknow in the art world.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I'm really a nobody, Because the kind of work I do in
the art world is not considereda valid art form.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Well, I saw your work and I would say that it is a
valid art form.
I don't understand why they was.
Is sculpting not considered?
You know we're in the art worldof Campbell's Soup Can Labels
getting $60 million, the BunnyRabbit Balloon Guy you know it's
just gimmicky junk like that.
And since I was born I've hadthis thing inside me I want to
(05:19):
be a great artist, right, right.
I sat in the basement of a oneroom schoolhouse in Iowa where I
was born, with my five brothersand sisters and my mom and dad.
We had no walls in the basement, just clotheslines with sheets
hung up with clothespins.
That kind of divided it intorooms.
(05:40):
But the one thing we did havewas we had a bookcase and in the
bookcase was the World BookEncyclopedia.
And while my dad was workingand my mom was out running
around, if John would be thegood guy and take care of all
the kids and make sure that thedishes were done and the diapers
(06:01):
were changed and everybody wasin bed, well then, when mom came
home with her boyfriend, well,he'd play me a game of chess,
which he never did, but I'd sitthere waiting for them after I
cleaned the house and put allthe kids to bed and I'd look
through the World BookEncyclopedia.
I saw these fantasticsculptures and beautiful
(06:21):
illustrations of Spanish stepsand just gorgeous artwork.
And I one night I was sittingthere and I looked at it at the
bookcase and I said that's thevolume H.
I wonder if there's anybody inthere with my last name.
I looked through and I said no,there isn't.
You know, maybe I'll be the guythat can get my name in an
encyclopedia.
(06:42):
Maybe I'll be the guy that cando that.
Of course, now everybody has aWikipedia page, so that's not a
goal.
My goal right now is just tostay alive and stay in business
and support my family.
I've got three kids.
I've paid for three master'sdegrees.
My kids never had to get acollege loan.
(07:05):
I sent them through college totry to get them prepared for
being successful in life andthat's like my whole thing.
And when I went to art school Ididn't like the art that was
being done.
The Campbell's Soup Can Labeland Abrillo Box is in the art
history book and some guy takesa camper and parks it in front
(07:25):
of a government building andtakes a photograph of it.
Then he takes a camper andparks it in front of a grocery
store and so he parks this thingwhere it doesn't belong and
he's in the art history book.
You know, the same guy thatsaid a urinal was a piece of art
, that kind of stuff.
So when I got to art school Iwas very disappointed in what
(07:48):
the art world really was and Ithought you know what, if I've
got to do this kind of stuff tomake a living, I'm just not
going to do it.
I'll go drive a truck, whichI'd done before.
I had plenty of jobs.
I drove a laundry truck.
I worked in factories.
I cleaned toilets at night.
I truck.
I worked in factories.
I cleaned toilets at night.
I did my first freelance art jobwhen I was nine years old,
(08:10):
because we had no money and Iwanted to rent a room that was
in the music store window.
I didn't have it.
So I got my own jobs and Ifigured early in life I realized
that nobody was going to helpme.
There was no adult that was onmy side.
There was no adult that caredabout me.
There was no adult that becauseit was all just you know,
(08:32):
turmoil and drama from all thethings that happened.
So we went from the basement toan orphanage for a while, got
the treatment there.
You know I'm sorry, poor whitekid, you know.
Then we got shipped from theredown to my grandma's house in
Florida because nobody can trustmy mom and my dad had to go
(08:53):
work overseas to make up all themoney that she went through
when he was there the first timeand same thing there.
I just found out recently afriend of mine in St Petersburg,
florida.
I told him that the elementaryschool I went to in St
(09:14):
Petersburg back in the 1950syeah, told me, awesome, a kid's
school, oh, wow, okay, my mom,for years your parasites, your
parasites beatings all the time.
And finally, you know, when youget to a point where you know
you're going to get a beatingfor nothing.
So now I'm going to getsomething out of it.
You know I'm going to, I'mgoing to stick at this one of
her boyfriends or somebody, if Iget the chance.
(09:36):
So my thing in life is I'vejust been trying to survive,
that's it, and I've done apretty good job at it so far.
Of course I've been through alot, you know.
Personally, really, you knowthings that I don't know kind of
tear you up but you have tobuild, tear you down but you
have to build yourself back up.
(09:56):
You know you have to.
You realize that you have to doit yourself.
You know, especially if you'rean art like me, an artist and a
musician, people don't call homeand say honey, on the way home,
could you stop by the store andpick up a sculpture?
You don't do that, you know.
So you've got to stand yourground, you've got to not take.
(10:17):
My thing is this Don't give up,no matter what the consequences
are.
Don't give up.
You'll get through it.
Give in and have everybody tellyou what you should be doing
when you know what you should bedoing.
You just haven't found a way todo it yet.
But don't give out, justtotally just forget it.
And you know, go be a drugaddict or something, cause
(10:37):
that's what a lot of people do,I think, and I just worked hard
to.
You know, the one thing Iwanted to do when I grew up was
have a normal family and raisesome kids that were normal and
had an opportunity to succeed inlife and know that they're
loved and cherished.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
You didn't want anything like how you were
raised or not raised.
Nobody even raised you.
Nothing Didn't write that Well,you know.
You kind of touched onsomething that I think I also
have, that we were beat down andbeat down and beat down as
young kids, but for some reasonwe didn't let it take hold of us
(11:17):
and we still stayed on a path,no matter how hard it was, and
we didn't give up.
It kind of like that ThomasEdison thing where he tried
10,000 ways to make the lightbulb and he finally figured it
out.
I mean, lots of people don'thave that and they quit way
before you know they finally getover that hurdle and they get
to where they're wanting to go.
(11:38):
But for some reason you didn'tlet all those beatings and that
living in the basement and theorphanage and everything else
take you down to a point whereyou didn't even want to function
and be your best self well, Ihad moments like that.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
okay, it's like that, but, um, I pick myself up and
just keep on going.
You know, my thing in life isput your head down and go, and
one of my favorite quotes isabout I think Cecil B DeMille
asked his brother how come hewas so successful, and he said
well, because he bit off morethan he could chew, and then he
chewed it.
(12:14):
Right, I think I'm going tostick my head in the noose to
try to get ahead, and if I hang,that's fine, but I'm going to
give it my shot.
So I've kind of always beenthat way.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Because what are you going to do when you're in the
situation that you're in?
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So has your family ever looked at your career, the
family, your mom and dad andsaid look what he did without us
or in spite of us?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
No, not really my mom .
You know, I got on a plane withher.
She was, you know, losing alittle bit of her mental
faculties when she got reallyolder and she told people on the
airplane that I was anexecutive at Bank of America.
Oh, okay, so, she, okay so.
And you know, basically,basically, before I got into the
(13:05):
sculpture thing, I was an artdirector.
You know, when I was a kid Iwatched that show Bewitched.
Yeah, I did too, and I evenworked at an ad agency.
He was an artist, but that'd bethe coolest job I could do art
and still be creative, come upwith ideas for ad campaigns.
So when I was in art school anddiscussed what was really going
(13:26):
on in the art world which isreally not anything to do with
art I wish people would realizethat it's all about money.
It's all about money and thesegroups of gallerists who have
millions of dollars, who willfind an artist that they can
promote.
They buy his stuff, they sendit to Sotheby's, they auction it
(13:52):
off and they stick it in awarehouse for a year.
Then they bring it back toSotheby's and auction it off
again and if nobody buys it,they rebuy it themselves to keep
the value of that going up.
So that's what people look atin art today.
It's billionaires andmillionaires making money off of
some artists that probablycouldn't make it on his own.
(14:14):
Guggenheim, the woman that waswith Hemingway and all those
people she's kind of the onethat started all that.
That art doesn't really havehave to be good.
Art doesn't have to besomething that people look at
and get joy.
That's what I love aboutsculpture.
I can go to a university and aperson will be.
I get calls huh, mr hair, Iwalk out of my way just to go
(14:38):
buy your sculpture in themorning because it makes me feel
good, that's I love.
So if I'm making people feelgood with my art, and then I see
the way that figurative art hasbeen condemned.
And these guys were all hacks.
Michelangelo and Rembrandt,these guys were all hacks.
If you look at American artmagazines, they're just a bunch
(15:01):
of idiots who are just trying tomake money off of art.
Uh, that have no real soul forart, no feeling for art art can
uplift.
When I have these, uh, here's aninteresting story.
There was a.
There was a guy that was aprofessor, a black guy.
He was the first professor atthe university of south carolina
(15:22):
after the War.
Right, okay, so they want tocommemorate this guy now.
So they put out a call forartists.
Okay, I was selected.
I want to do a sculpture of theman.
Okay, everybody loved the idea.
But guess who?
The art department.
Oh, that's not a valid art form, that's all passe, that's all
(15:46):
junk.
What we really need is a laserlight show, right, oh, my gosh,
that's where their heads are at.
And?
But when I see pictures on theinternet of people standing in
front of Richard T Greener, ninefeet tall black man, on the
campus of the University ofSouth Carolina, they always have
(16:08):
the biggest smiles because theylove the guy.
Now he's inspiring you.
Now you can be like him Exactly.
He was just a person like you,he's not some kind of
supernatural being.
And then Frederick Douglasspeople sit beside him kind of
supernatural being.
And then Frederick Douglasspeople sit beside him.
All these people that reallymade a difference in their lives
(16:31):
can make a difference in ourlives if we let people know who
they were and what they did.
And that person sitting thereon the bench, frederick Douglass
, is one of my favorites.
People want to sit down next tohim.
Be like him.
I love that.
People want to sit down next tohim.
Be like him.
I love that.
So take your light show and hitthe exit.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
It's a shame that that's where art has gone,
because when I look at yoursculptures, they take you to a
moment in time.
I mean, you can actually feelthe presence of this person.
That's how I felt when I sawthe sculpture from the movie.
Even when I'm standing in frontof it, it felt like I was right
(17:12):
there.
Well.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I appreciate that I did.
Mr Rogers for his hometown inPennsylvania and his sister was
there for the unveiling and shesat down on the bench next to
him and kissed him on the cheekand said it is my brother.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Oh, my goodness See, you get the details and the
lines and all the things.
I mean.
You really do capture theperson.
I mean, what in you is able todo that?
Maybe it's just the artist, I'mnot sure.
But you take it even further.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Well, I think, for example, a historic person like
George Washington.
Okay, if I get commissioned toGeorge Washington, the first
thing that I'm going to do is goon the internet and find as
many pictures of him as I can.
Now, there wouldn't be anyphotographs, but there'll be
paintings and drawings, and afew sculptures maybe.
And if you look at him in eachphase of his life, he doesn't
(18:08):
look like the same person.
So which one do you do?
For me, it's how does he appearin the public mind?
That's what I want to capture.
When people think of GeorgeWashington, which one of these
faces do they see in their head?
So that's where I go with theportraiture, and I think
probably that's why it connectswith so many people, because
(18:31):
it's kind of what's in thepublic mentality.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Now, I don't know anything about sculpting and you
really brought this thing in methat I want to know more about
it.
So I mean, what is the process?
You get the commission, you getthe job and then you go into
your workshop.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Well, you know what?
I really had no idea.
I was going to be a sculptor.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
What did you see yourself doing that young John?
What did you see him doing?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I just wanted to create art that made people feel
good.
That's it.
I wanted to get the samefeeling that I got when I was
looking through the World Bookencyclopedia Wow, look at that,
that is beautiful.
Wow, look at that, that is socool.
Wow, look at that, that'sartistry.
It took someone with technicalabilities and talent and skill
(19:22):
and vision to do that.
That's unlike most people.
I had an ad agency.
I was very successful.
I was an art director for 20some years and, oh, I was 49
years old and, uh, I was bored.
Yeah, I told my wife, let's gointo some art shows because
(19:44):
maybe I got some real art inhere, besides the advertising
stuff, besides her logo at theairport, uh, besides the uh, all
the uh artwork that I've donefor general electric and big
clients like that over the 20years that I was an art director
.
Um, I just wanted to dosomething different.
So I told my wife, let's go seesome shows.
Well, we went to seven showsthat year.
(20:06):
The last show was was in NewYork city at the Javits center,
and I saw a guy I saw drawingand painting, which that's what
I did as an art director for 25years.
I sat at my table with my 300marker set and did renderings on
uh, on paper for foradvertising campaigns and
television spots and things likethat.
Uh, but I saw a guy doing asculpture and I said that's it,
(20:28):
right there, man, that's cool,I'm going to do that.
I went back to Charlotte, whichwas my ad agency was I rented a
studio across the hall and atnight when the kids were all
tucked in and their prayers weresaid and their homework was
done and well, dad would go overand work until like one or two
in the morning sculpting.
That was the hard part because,uh, my studio and my agency are
(20:50):
on the second floor of theshopping center in Charlotte and
right out the window, while I'msculpting at one o'clock in the
morning, is a place called theIrish Q bar, a rock and roll bar
, and I thought, man, we'redoing over here, I should be
over there playing my drums,right, yes?
But I, I kept it up and afterabout a month or two we had
(21:12):
enough sculptures to get in theshow.
And then the advertisingbusiness in January is really
dead because everybody spent alltheir money for the year and
they haven't really decided whatthey're going to do for the
coming year and I found thismagazine called Sunshine Artists
where I could see that inFlorida during the wintertime
there was an art show everyweekend in some city in Florida.
So I told my wife.
(21:37):
I said you know what, let's dothose shows.
So I signed up.
They accepted me right awaybecause as an art director I had
beautiful printed material ofall my sculptures.
First show was in Naples,florida.
I drove down there.
It was cold as hell, raining,oh man.
It was cold as hell, raining,oh man.
It was miserable.
And my wife, after three daysof that, said, okay, I'm right
in the car taking the kids backto charlotte.
(21:59):
We'll see you in three weeks,oh wow.
My next show was in fortlauderdale.
So I had to drive through theeverglades, which I was familiar
with because I grew up in northmiami beach.
I my music all over Miami.
That's when Miami Beach waslike the strip in Vegas Bright
lights, beautiful hotels, allthe biggest talent in the world
(22:20):
coming there.
I played all those hotels.
I did that and so I knew my wayaround Florida and through the
Everglades and I finally getthrough the Everglades to the
Miami city limits and there'sthis big casino going up,
miccosukee Resort.
Okay, I said these guys, theyneed a warrior in front of that
(22:41):
place.
So I pulled in there and I saidwho do I want to talk to about
a sculpture?
They said, well, you're goingto have to go back about 40
miles to the village and talk tothe tribal chairman.
So I backtracked.
I went in I said hey, I'm Johnhere.
I'm a sculptor in the area.
I see you're building thisbeautiful new casino.
I'd like to do a sculpture foryour entrance.
(23:02):
Can I talk to the chairmanabout that today?
Oh, no, man, the chairman's avery important person.
He won't be able to see you.
Okay, he's booked up for twomonths.
I said well, would you mind if Ijust sit here?
Maybe he's got five minutes.
You know, I just want to givehim my brochure and introduce
myself.
Sit there all day if you want,but he won't be able to see you.
(23:22):
So I did.
I sat there all day and fiveo'clock came.
So I drove out of there and Ithought you know what?
I don't have an art show untilSaturday.
I got the whole week.
So I pulled over and I got aroom in this little one down
motel.
Next morning I was back there.
Hi, I'm John here, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah.
Sit there all day if you want,but you won't be able to talk to
(23:47):
him.
So I sat there all day Tuesday,all day Wednesday, all day
Thursday.
By Thursday, these tribalelders that were walking in back
and forth out of this guy'soffice kept looking at me and
say we're not going to talk toyou.
White man, what are you stupid?
And I just smiled at him and Ithink to myself I'm here till
five o'clock on Friday.
Well, at 4.45 on Friday, guesswho came out of her office?
(24:09):
His secretary.
Okay, chairman, we'll see younow.
I thought you know.
So I got in, I showed him mybrochure.
He had a couple of NativeAmerican pieces that I had done
which he really liked, and Isaid well, I thought you'd like
to sculpt her for your beautifulnew casino.
And he says well, we wanted tosculpt her, but we couldn't find
one.
(24:29):
I said well, I've been sittingin your waiting room for five
days now.
He says, yes, and you're themost.
He stuck his finger right in myface yes, you're the most
persistent person I've ever met.
We sat down and talked forabout 10, 15 minutes.
I told him I'd get back to himwith a proposal.
So I went to Fort Lauderdale,did my show Friday night,
(24:53):
saturday night, sunday night Iwas at Kinko's place putting
together these 12-page fullyillustrated and detailed
proposals eight copies for eachone for one of the tribal
council members.
And when morning came, guesswho's sitting there?
When he walked in I was thelast person he saw on Friday,
first for it, and he did adouble take, kind of irritated,
and he goes what are you doinghere now?
I said well, I told you, I dida double take, kind of irritated
, and he goes what are you doinghere now?
(25:13):
I said well, I told you I'd getback to you with a proposal.
He said already.
I said let me tell yousomething.
My friend, I'm not the harethat lost the race.
Oh, wow, that's good.
He got a chuckle, because I'vegot a pretty good sense of humor
.
He got a chuckle out of that.
We sat down and I walked out ofthere with a check for $115,000
(25:40):
and my first monumentalcommission.
I was on cloud nine for about ahalf an hour until I realized,
oh my God, I don't know how todo those big things.
I'm doing little stuff likethis, you know.
Yeah, I got through it, itworked out and that kind of an
attitude has really helped me alot.
When I was in art school inColumbus I had a part-time job,
worked at a hotel at night, putmyself through art school
(26:01):
playing my drums.
I get a call from the union hey, this big RCA recording group's
coming into Columbus for twoweeks and they're looking for a
drummer.
So back then you had to be inthe union.
Okay, I have a union card formiami, new york and in vegas
because I played all over and Iwas very well known because I'm
a great drummer.
(26:21):
When I play people get up anddance.
I got you know it's in me.
It's, uh, same as the art thing.
I just my mom said I knew youwere going to be a drummer
because you used to sit on thesand pileile and beat on the
oatmeal box.
That's amazing.
I went in there, I got in line.
There were eight drummers inline.
I was number six and I wasthere for over an hour while the
(26:43):
other guys auditioned.
They were auditioning, they hada huge orchestra with an
orchestra leader.
So after drummer number fivegot down, the orchestra leader
came over to the three of us andsaid well, thanks for coming,
guys.
But we got the guy we want.
I said you got the guy you want.
What do you mean?
You got the guy that you want.
There's three of us here.
We could blow that guy away.
You don't know that you shouldlet us play.
(27:05):
I got to hear here's my letterfrom the union.
You're going to audition.
He goes.
I'm sorry that this is overaudition.
He goes.
I'm sorry that this is over.
This audition is over.
And he walked away from me and Ilooked at his as he walked away
from me.
It really got me irritated.
Here's another guy treating melike I'm nothing.
I looked at him walking thatway and I looked up on the stage
and saw those drums and I madea beeline for that drum set on
(27:29):
there.
I started playing.
I did like a two minute drumsolo.
I could see the guy.
His face just got red.
It just went up like that andhe came raging over and one of
the singers put his hand on hisshoulder.
He goes hey, wait a minute, man.
This guy said, pretty good,what fun to play.
So I played, I, I, and then Igot back down and I went back.
I got in line, I stood thereand I saw him over there in
(27:50):
their little huddle and the guycomes over and he says well, you
were right, we didn't have theguy we want, we want you.
So that's one of the reasonsthat I've been able to survive,
because I don't let people putme down and I don't put other
people down.
You know people get a thingabout I'm going to put that guy
(28:11):
in his place.
I don't have that With me.
You don't have a place.
Your place is you.
I just treat you as anindividual, like I'd like you to
treat me with respect.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Well, your drums took you places, because I also
heard that you played with JimiHendrix.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, that was absolutely the kindest, nicest,
most generous, soft-spokenperson I've ever met in my
entire life.
I love that guy.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
What a wonderful experience.
Well, it kind of was and wasn't.
I was playing my drums in Miami.
I was a well-known drummer downthere for a long time and I was
17 years old and I got a callfrom this band in Miami.
They had sold a.
Miami was a huge rock and rollmarket.
There were clubs everywhereback in the 60s.
(29:04):
There were hundreds of bandsand you could sell 100,000
records in Miami that's how manypeople were there and there
were 50 clubs everywhere.
You can always go and get a gig.
Um, so I, I did that for a longtime.
Uh, so that this big bandcalled me and said well, we're
going to new york for the summerto cut an album we got signed
(29:26):
at cbs and we'd like you to beour drummer.
So I said, went with them.
Well, the girl in the band waslike probably 19 or 20 and she
kind of had a thing for me.
I think that's why they pickedme out as the drummer.
Besides, I was the best drummerin Miami period.
And so we went to New York.
(29:47):
Cbs got us engaged.
We worked in the East Village.
We did Columbia Pictures afterparty for a big movie.
We worked at CBS in the daytimeand played our music around New
York at night.
And one night we're in the cluband the guy our guy from CBS
(30:09):
comes sits at a table.
And here's the singer.
Her mom, from Miami, is therewith some big, chunky looking
guy.
Okay, right.
So I went over to the table andhe says oh, you know, uh, the
CBS, yeah, we're, we're going to, we're going to take you guys
out to dinner after the, afterthe show.
And we got a little when Italked to you about the, you
(30:29):
know, about the album and allthat.
So they took us to dinner andbasically just fired me and the
bass player because the motherwanted me out of the band.
She called me a pennilesssleepwalker.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
So somebody else now putting you down, yeah always,
always.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
So I kind of okay, I, I get it.
So we got fired and a coupledays later I'm, uh, I'm sitting
by the phone and the bass player, who was from CBS you know an
older black guy who's beenaround New York a long time he
goes.
Uh, hey, john, this guy, jimiHendrix, is in town.
You want to go meet him?
I said never heard of him.
He goes, nobody has.
(31:12):
But everybody's going to.
So we find out the hotel he was.
We went up and knocked on hisdoor in his room.
And who answers the door?
Two of the Isley brothers.
Oh my gosh, hey, you guys areworking an album at CVS, you
guys are playing down in thevillage.
Yeah, we know all the talentthat comes into town.
They told us Okay, what are youdoing now?
(31:33):
I said, well, you know, the bandbroke up and I'm going to spend
August in New York and then I'mprobably going to go back to
Miami and finish high school.
And you know what the guy saidto me what Did you consider
staying in New York and beingour drummer?
I thought, well, isley Brothers, I didn't know much about them.
I knew my mom listened to them.
So, anyway, jimmy came up, hewas the nicest and he was very
(32:01):
soft-spoken.
And I asked one of the IsleyBrothers I said why is Jimmy so
soft-spoken?
He said well, if you were ayoung black kid growing up in
Seattle back in the 40s and 50s,you did not speak unless you
were spoken to and he carriedthat through his adult life.
Okay, but what a sweet, just akind man.
(32:22):
So we went out, we partied.
There was more drugs in thatthing that you could even count
Right.
So that was a part of it.
When they say if you said youlived in the 60s but you can't
remember and you remember it,you really don't, cause I I
don't remember a lot of that.
I remember Jamel.
With Jimmy we went up to a bigskyscraper where the rascals had
a practice spot.
(32:43):
There was all kinds of greatmusicians from all over New York
, people that you never heard of, and we just went around New
York city and went from club toclub and jam to jam all night
and we just had the greatest,the greatest time.
And I saw the guy came toCleveland because I, after that
summer in New York I decided tojust leave Miami, get rid of the
(33:07):
music business.
Okay, go move in with my dad,who lived in Ohio, and go to
Ohio state and follow my art.
So that's what I did, uh, butwhile in while in Ohio, I got uh
a lot of gigs from a lot ofother musicians that were
traveling through the state, soI'm fairly well known.
Even right now I can go to SanFrancisco at a place called the
(33:28):
saloon.
Uh, my buddy, dave Workman,plays out there all the time,
and last time I came out thereand sat in with him he said just
call me the next time you'recoming into town.
I'll book you as my drummer forthe night.
So that's what I'm lookingforward to.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
You know, I always have this thing and you've been
touching on it the entire timeis, 90% of success is showing up
and you just keep showing upand showing up.
And even well, when you satthere for five days and waited
for him to come out, I mean thatis persistence.
But I mean that's what you'redescribing here and you were in
(34:02):
the right place at the righttime with Simon and Garfunkel.
Yeah, I was?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Well, we were.
We had the same A&R man, whichis arrangements and repertoire.
Same A&R man, which isArrangements and Repertoire.
We came in to do a session andthey were still in there.
They were taking up our timeslot.
So I wasn't crazy about that.
I really never liked ArtGarfunkel.
I'd never seen the guy smile.
(34:26):
There's always some kind ofproblem with that guy.
Now, paul Simon was pretty nicebut they were going over a song
for their Bookends album andthey didn't like what the studio
drummers at CBS did and theycouldn't figure out.
It was a very unusual song withdifferent tempos and rhythms in
it.
And Paul Simon just looked atme and goes you're a drummer,
(34:47):
give us some ideas.
I said, okay, they had a littletape player.
I said they had a little tapeplayer.
I said you know, run the tapefor me a couple of times.
And then I laid down all thestuff for that song and it's on
the album.
But I never got a credit.
I doubt if folks ever evenremember me, because who was I?
Some nobody drummer for a groupfrom Miami that never really
made it.
So that's okay.
(35:08):
I had those experiences and Icherish them and there's more to
come, hopefully.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
You keep referring to yourself as, like this, nobody
and like you know, people haveput you down all your life, but
I think that, even though yousometimes hear other people's
definitions of you, you stillhave created your own
definitions of yourself, wouldyou say.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, I think so.
I never really thought about itthat way, but I've kind of come
through this with you know myown picture of me, and what is
that compared to how?
What other people's voices?
Speaker 1 (35:48):
have been in your head.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
I want people to say when I'm gone he was a great dad
, okay, he was a great grandpa.
He's a great, great, greatgrandpa, which I am a great
grandpa.
Okay, he did something with hislife that benefits other people
.
My artwork, that's around, that.
(36:16):
People see it.
They, they're, they're, uh,they're motivated by it.
You know, they, they, they getenjoyment out of seeing it.
They, uh, it touches a part ofthem that maybe they didn't even
know it existed.
Because who goes and looks atart and goes oh man, I look at
all art, I love, I love, I likeall art.
Uh, to me, if you're an artistand you can make a living in
(36:37):
this environment, more power toyou.
And if you're doing the bunnyrabbit balloon, that's your
thing, but that's all you got.
I'm not interested in seeingmore balloon animals.
You know what I'm saying, right?
I always challenge myself to.
Even when I was a drummer, Itried not to play the same lick
twice in a night, everythingplaying different.
And I tried to do that with myart too, that's so amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
How did you go from that kid that just got up there
on that stage and startedplaying to get the people in the
room to hear you and give youthe gig, to how who you became.
How did you get from that tothat?
Just keep doing that.
You just kept showing up.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
You just kept going up, be persistent One.
I've been married twice.
My first wife ran away with amotorcycle mechanic, and my
second wife Now we're gettingready to celebrate our 48th
wedding anniversary.
Oh, congratulations.
She's been with me all thattime.
She's helped me a lot.
She really has.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Having someone genuinely care and be in your
care, because she came from areal family.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
She came from a real family, you know.
Her uncle and aunt got killedin a car wreck so her dad took
in her two nieces Okay, right,so five kids in a two-bedroom
apartment raised them up, thatkind of a thing and they were
(38:10):
proud Catholics and veryreligious and, you know,
principled.
And her father was a great guy.
He had a saying and I stillstick with it Always do what's
right and you can't go wrong.
Right, that's it.
I just keep that under my beltand whenever I'm in a situation
(38:32):
I think of that.
That's it.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
I just keep that under my belt and whenever I'm
in a situation, I think of that.
Yeah, you had a lot of wrongdone to you with five kids
living in a basement as youstart Six.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Oh, six kids living in a basement.
You know I mean you A one-roomschoolhouse.
That's not a big basement.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Who was living upstairs?
Can I, because I don't know my-dad was.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
My dad was working three jobs, one of those jobs as
a carpenter, and he was tryingto finish the upstairs, uh, so
that we could live upstairs.
But, um, my mom ran around onhim.
He never knew it.
Uh, her and her boyfriend said,hey, we got to get Archie
that's my dad's name, archiehe's passed away now.
(39:15):
So, she, we got to get Archieout of town.
So we can you know we can, wecan be free to party.
Let's get him a job overseas.
So they looked through thenewspaper.
They found a job for acarpenter in Thule, greenland,
building an Air Force base onthe Arctic Circle, for a year.
Sign up for a year.
(39:37):
You get $1,200 a month, whichin 1955 was a lot of money.
It's three or four times whathe could make working three jobs
in Iowa.
So he went off for a year andwhen he got back, mom was gone,
the money was gone and the kidswere in the basement by
themselves.
Now what are we going to dowith them?
(39:57):
So that was the situation.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
So that's how you ended up in the orphanage.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
That's how we ended up in the orphanage, because my
grandma took the baby, my oneaunt took the two girls and
nobody wanted the three boys, sothe three of you.
In the Linn County Iowachildren's home, formerly known
as the home for the friendless.
Oh my goodness, and that wasbad.
(40:24):
But you know what?
I broke the bank twice inMonopoly when I was at that
orphanage and they made us workoutside and do yard work and
stuff like that.
That place was the best lookingplace after I got done with it.
Why do I believe that?
My thing is my mother hated us.
Why do I believe that my thingis my mother hated us.
(40:46):
When I was a drummer at 14,playing Miami Beach, I'd drive
my drums into the house at twoin the morning and there'd be a
double sink with dishes piled upas far as you could see, with a
note on there that said John,do these or else, because nobody
else would do it.
My older brother was a goldbrick.
(41:06):
He never did a damn thing.
I was the one that dideverything because I was super
obedient.
I didn't want to get beaten.
I did whatever I had to do tonot get beaten.
But when I got in there Istarted doing those dishes.
I cleaned that whole kitchenspotless.
I was up like for two hours.
I said if I'm going to do it,it's going to be the best that
(41:29):
can be done and that's just kindof my attitude, whether it's
cleaning the floor, painting ahouse or doing art or playing.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
You can't teach that?
I don't think, because thereare so many kids and people
today that really want thingsdone for them and they don't.
They want to get things forfree.
So you know and and what Ireally like about what and and I
was exactly the same way.
I mean I was a scrapper, I meanI did everything I could to
make it and nobody I just I justgo after the hustle because I
(42:04):
learned really young that Icouldn't rely on anybody.
If I was going to do something,be something, create something,
I had to rely on myself.
And you learned that really,really young as well.
So you were that little littlekid how old were you in the
basement when you were lookingat those world book
encyclopedias, would you say?
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Well, by then I was probably.
Uh well, let's see.
Catholic school, first gradesix six years old and you knew
then that you wanted to get inthat book yeah, I knew then,
because I I I admired the, theartwork that was in there so
much that I wanted to be withthat group of people so you
(42:45):
didn't start sculpting.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Until what year?
Was it 2000 or something?
Speaker 2 (42:51):
like that.
I was 49 years old.
I had my head in and see it wasdoing really well, right, but I
was just bored, right.
People go well.
How come you're not in thesculpture Boredom?
Speaker 1 (43:02):
So I mean, you held on to those images in your head
all those years and it still wasinside of you and you just
wanted to start creating that.
I mean, that's an absolutebeautiful story.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Well, it's just kind of.
You know the way I was born.
I think I got the art G.
That's what I think Now.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
you did say to me in a conversation that unless you
have this absolute burningdesire inside of you to do this,
don't even bother.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Well, yeah, because a lot of parents will ask me oh,
my son or my daughter, they wantto major in art, and you know,
at the university of so-and-so.
What do you?
What do you think?
I tell them don't do it,because the art world, uh, and
the music world, you have tocreate your own clients.
There's nobody out therewaiting for you to come on the
(43:55):
scene.
Right, you gotta go for it, yougotta go, you have to make.
Yeah, so unless you've got thisthing, like I like I've had my
whole life is burning inside.
Remember that movie, alien,where that thing popped up out
of that guy yeah, I've had thatmy whole life, right in here,
kind of like pushing me.
You know, john, do something,get up, don't sit.
(44:15):
Make something, draw something,paint something, build
something.
When I was a kid, I took thelawnmower and I, when I drove
the lawnmower around all thebushes out in the back by the
woods and I took scraps ofsiding and made yield signs and
stop signs and I had my littlecar that I would drive around in
there, like five, six years old.
(44:37):
So that's kind of been in meall this time.
I'm glad it is, because it'sthe only thing that's helped me
to survive.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
And you know, one of the other things that I've heard
you say through this wholeentire thing is that you want to
create joy in other people.
Yes, and the heaviness.
Isn't that our purpose forbeing here?
Speaker 2 (44:58):
I say that all the time.
Isn't that our purpose?
Speaker 1 (45:03):
It absolutely is.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
My purpose.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Isn't that our purpose?
It absolutely is my purpose,yeah, and I feel, and I had felt
very young, that that was mypurpose as well, and I was
silenced and silenced and toldmany different ways that I
didn't matter or whatever.
And so you know, here I amdoing this podcast and I've done
different art and I've been ajournalist and different things,
(45:26):
and I really do believe thatwhen you come from those kind of
beginnings that we've got somuch pain within us to offer to
other people, which will turn itinto joy, you know, I mean, we
just offer such a differentperspective in life and we want
to show people the joy inside ofus instead of the pain that we
(45:50):
went through.
One of the things that Iwondered was do you take the
pain from your beginnings andput them into your art?
Put it into your art?
No, no, not at all.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
The artwork really isn't.
I don't view the artwork as anextension of myself.
I'm creating.
I'm creating that specificthing.
It has its own life.
Okay, that's.
The art has really not much todo with me and my painting.
Once I create that one, itstands on its own.
(46:25):
You know, and I just visitedsome relatives in South Carolina
yesterday and took twosculptures that I had in my
warehouse to give to family asgifts.
Those people really appreciatedit.
You know, A little sculpture ofClifford Brown the trumpet
player.
Clifford Brown, the trumpetplayer.
(46:45):
I left with my nephew becausehe was from a mixed family and
he's the only guy I ever knewthat had a Clifford Brown album
because his dad listened toClifford Brown.
I said this guy needs thelittle muck pack that won the
commission in Wilmington,Delaware, my eight foot statue
(47:05):
of Clifford Brown.
But there are, you know,Clifford Brown, great musician,
right up my alley.
I love to.
I want to do a Hendrix.
That guy was fantastic.
Oh my gosh, I want to do that.
You know, I did a great Obamafor the Mecklenburg Democratic
Party.
Those people really inspire me,you know.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Have you ever gone to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
in Cleveland or said to them youknow, I want to do a sculpture
for you guys.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
No, when I left Miami and went to Ohio to go to Ohio
State and live with my dad.
I was at home one day and I gota call from a girl in Cleveland
.
She goes, john, your picture'sin the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame.
I said, really, she goes, yeah,jimi Hendrix concert.
And I remembered when I cameback from New York he was in
(48:02):
Cleveland a few months later anda bunch of my friend, my
brother's friends actually Ididn't have a car.
I wanted to go see him, so wedrove, we drove up to Cleveland
to see the guy and I got out ofmy seat and went, kind of went
up to the to the stage, kind oftowards the end of the concert,
and he saw me.
(48:22):
He said, hey man, hey man, youknow you don't remember my name,
but you remember my face so atthe end of that concert uh he.
He said uh, you know, can I giveyou something, because he's
always giving things away.
When I was in his hotel room, aphotographer came to the door
and admired his moccasins thathe was wearing, those hippie
kind of things went off.
(48:42):
He goes here, you want them?
He's to give it to the guy asmoccasins.
He's given cars.
He's bought new cars forstrangers, people that he never
met.
The guy's got just a generoussoul.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
That's amazing, but you didn't want to create
anything for the Rock and RollHall of Fame.
Have you ever thought of it?
You?
Speaker 2 (49:02):
know what?
It's such a huge, you't getinto that place.
You know, and as far as I'mconcerned, I'm just they're
concerned, I'm not.
I'm not anybody in rock androll well, yeah, but you're a
drummer and a sculptor, so Ijust wondered well, uh, I never
really thought about, thoughtabout approaching that, you know
(49:23):
, because really in the artworld, man I'm a nobody, you
want another nobody, art versusartist, drummer in the thing.
So I really haven't.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
But yeah, that's a thought.
Like Jimi Hendrix, you could doone I've seen.
I've gone into the Rock andRoll Hall of Fame and I've seen
the Jimi Hendrix exhibit andit's amazing Wow.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Yeah, I need to go up there, I guess.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Yeah, Now how in the world did you see, I don't know,
did you do other busts ofpeople other than Dick Van Dyke,
because I found that picture ofyou standing with him with his
bust?
Speaker 2 (50:05):
Dick Van Dyke, because I found that picture of
you standing with him with hisbust.
I was in the foundry in LAworking on the Olympic monument
and Dick's kind of an artisticguy.
He knew the guy that owned thefoundry and the guy that owned
the foundry told him that hey,the sculptor that's doing the
Olympic thing is here.
So Dick Van Dyke actually camedown to meet me.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
That's amazing, and then that was it.
I mean, he asked you to do that.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
When he walked in I said, oh my God, it's Dick Van
Dyke.
What's he doing here?
You know?
First thing I said I'm going totell everybody that I just met
Dick Van Dyke.
You know what he said?
I'm going to tell everybody, Ijust met the sculptor for the U?
S Olympic team.
That's how cool he was.
So I was going to be.
He's asked me if I did portraits.
I said yeah.
So I I did that little portraitof him.
I took it to his uh and then Ihad to uh before I did the
(51:00):
casting.
I want to make sure he surethat he liked the sculpture.
Right.
So you can take pictures ofsculpture but it doesn't really.
You don't get the sense and thefeel of what it really is like.
So I thought, you know, I gotto put this thing on an airplane
and go out there and get hisokay out before I have it cast.
I took that thing on anairplane, flew it out there,
(51:20):
went to his house.
He loved it and then we did thecasting and I delivered it to
his house in Malibu.
He invited me up there andshowed me around his little tiny
bungalow he lives in.
His wife was there.
When I got to his house.
He was out on the streettalking to these little kids in
the back of a station wagon heykids, what's going on?
(51:42):
Little Bobby, you're one oftheir names.
This is the nicest.
He's another person that I'vejust been honored just to meet.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
I've admired that guy my whole life, Well, and I have
as well, and he's in his 90s,you know, and I mean he's just
still moving and doing things.
And one of the best quotes thatI ever heard him say when they
asked him you know, why can youstill dance and do these things?
Speaker 2 (52:10):
You know, he's like you, just got to keep moving and
man, I tell all my friends youknow I'm going to be 75 in a
month.
All my friends, most of them,are retired.
I go what are you retired for?
You got to keep moving.
Get off the couch.
One of my friends oh my God,I've aged so much since I saw
you two years ago.
I'm this and I'm that.
What are you doing with yourtime?
(52:32):
What do you do with your time?
Get a job.
I told him Get a job.
You've got to stay busy oryou're going to vegetate and
just fade away.
You want to do that, not me.
I'm not fade away.
You want to do that, Not me.
I'm not fading away, I'm goingout with a boom.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
Well, the older we get, the more we know, the more
that we can give back to theworld.
And you know, it's really sadthat some people feel that
they've reached a certain ageand they're done.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Yeah, Well, when you've worked a job that you
really never liked.
I mean, I came in a 40-yearperiod where nobody ever really
got a raise.
That's the time that I grew up.
40 years you really did not gethardly much of a raise.
Yeah, the last ad agency Iworked in before I started my
(53:18):
own ad agency, we had nine artdirectors in there and three of
them got fired.
And then there was a salary a,a salary freeze.
Nobody was going to get a raisefor at least a year.
When they told me that, I walkedinto my boss's office and I
said I want a raise today or Iwill not be back tomorrow.
(53:39):
Okay, we just fired three guysand you're coming in here asking
for a raise.
I said, yeah, who's your numberone producer?
Me.
Who's going to be doing alltheir work?
Me.
So I want to raise, and I wantto raise today or I'm not going
to come back tomorrow.
You'll have to find somebodyelse.
And Well, at the end of the dayhe came back and he goes.
(54:02):
I can't believe it.
The old man said OK.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
You are absolutely amazing.
I love your spirit.
How in the world did you?
Speaker 2 (54:18):
land the Olympic job.
Well, it was a senator fromNorth Carolina that was the
biggest Olympic individualsponsor, I guess you know,
giving them money.
He was a track star at UNC,chapel Hill before the blacks
were allowed in the college.
(54:39):
Ok, when, when, when blackswere finally allowed to come in,
all those records went by thewayside.
Yeah, but he loved the amateursports and he was a supporter of
the Olympic Committee.
So they asked him to build anew strength training center out
there in Colorado Springs attheir training center.
(55:01):
And he called me up and he saidJohn, I want you to come out.
We're going to build a strengthtraining center.
I want you to do a sculpturefor the front of it.
So I went out there.
This was a trip.
This guy's name is Erwin Belt.
I don't know if you ever heardof Belt department stores, but
there's mostly a Southern store.
They have 300 and somedepartment stores.
(55:23):
Huge outfit, huge outfit.
So I went out there.
Um, uh, we went over the, overthe building and what they
wanted, and then they said theywanted us, uh, a sculpture with
the theme of strength.
So then they all took us todinner at the Broadmoor, which
is a, you know, historic, uh,old, big money, old money hotel.
(55:44):
And uh, we sat around, uh haddinner and after the dinner, uh,
one of the sponsor's sons stoodup and he goes my dad has given
you a million dollars to buildthis building and now he's going
to give you more money to put asculpture in front of it and
you're serving us this cheapwine.
I want the good stuff, stuff.
(56:06):
So they started bringing inthis three and four hundred
dollar bottle of wine stuff andeverybody started uh drinking.
Now I don't drink wine, I'm abeer drinker, and that's another
way you get put down at allthese big places.
So to keep from beingdiscriminated against as a beer
drink, a lowly beer drinker, Icame up at one of those
gatherings.
I went to the bartender.
(56:26):
I said take a martini glass,fill it with beer and put three
of them, huge olives, in thereon a stick.
I'm walking around.
Hey, what's that?
That's a beer, teeny, so I'mnot crap anymore after that.
That's uh.
So his son said that.
So now they're saying okay, well, what, what, what, what can we
come up with?
Here's what we thought aboutWould you like one guy on a
(56:48):
bench with a towel around hisneck because he just lifted a
weight and another guy lifting aweight.
Okay, well, that's okay.
I said you know what?
Though, what do you think ofwhen?
What's the one visual thatcomes to mind when you think
about strength?
To me, it's Atlas, right tomind.
When you think about strength,to me, it's Atlas, right, it
held up the universe.
How about we have an Atlasfigure Instead of an Atlas?
(57:13):
We have four Olympic athletesand we can have a female for the
Pan American Games.
We can have an African-Americanguy for the US Olympic team.
We can have an ancient Greek,which was the original, and we
can have the Paralympics, theoriginal and we can have the
paralympics.
That's, that's it, and theycould be holding up the world,
holding the world up on theirshoulders oh, that's a great
(57:33):
idea.
Uh, is there anything you coulddo with the, the olympic
federations?
I said, well, how many arethere?
45?
Yeah, I'll sculpt their logosand relief and run them around
the base of the sculpture.
I sculpted it out on a napkinand showed them that.
And so then the donor says well, John, how much do you think
(57:54):
that's going to cost?
You want to do it life-size?
I said life-size, that's MickeyMouse.
You can't do this life-size.
It has to be at least twicelife-size and it's probably
going to run you a little over amillion dollars.
So you know where the guy goes.
Let's do it.
Oh, my gosh, Everybody was allexcited here.
We had the thing and we had ourdinner and drinks.
(58:18):
And after the dinner and drinkshis oldest son came up to me
and he said you're spending ourinheritance.
I said what said you'respending our inheritance?
I said what?
Yeah, you're spending ourinheritance.
Our dad's giving you all theseprojects.
You're spending our inheritance.
I said what's an inheritance?
He said well, it's the way youget left when your relative dies
(58:41):
.
I said, well, is your fatherstill alive?
Yeah, so then he got.
When I said that he got reallymad and he goes, I could go out
right now and get a dozen guysthat do what you do, Right, Just
like that.
And I said, well, you know,you're probably right, you could
find a lot of guys out therethat could do what I'm doing.
(59:01):
Can I?
Can I ask you a question?
Okay, have you ever been toRome?
Yeah, have you ever been to theVatican?
Yeah, I've been to the Vatican.
Have you ever been to theSistine Chapel and seen that
beautiful ceiling in there?
Oh, yeah, I've been there.
I said who painted that?
He goes, well, everybody knowsthat Michelangelo.
(59:22):
I said, okay, now, who put upthe money for the painting?
Speaker 1 (59:33):
This is the end of part one of John Hare from
Orphanage to Sculptor.
The story will continue in parttwo and you will not want to
miss a word.
This is so inspiring and itproves that life is not over in
your 70s and you can do anythingyou put your mind to, with hard
work, persistence and a burninginside to succeed.
Tune in next week to hear parttwo of John Hare's story.
We will see you next week.
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne and Tina will be backsoon.
John, I recently met you at theMansfield Reformatory for the
30th reunion of the movieShawshank Redemption.
I first walked past you and itwas just a real brief
interaction I don't even know ifyou remember the first time and
then the second time I meanthis was hours later I walked
(00:30):
past you and you were stillsitting there and you're just
sitting there drinking a cup ofcoffee and I'm like, were you in
the movie?
You looked so interesting to me.
I knew that there was somethingabout you and I felt an
immediate connection with youand I wasn't sure why.
So I said, you know, were youin the movie?
And you said, ah, I've been anextra in other movies, but you
(00:52):
know nothing major.
And I was like, so you're kindof famous.
And you're like, oh, I don'tknow.
I said, well, what are youdoing?
Is this?
Do you have a job?
And you said yeah, to watchthis sculpture.
And I was like, uh, I mean thisis a beautiful statue from the
movie and you're watching it.
And you said, yeah, because Imade it.
(01:13):
I mean that's how humble andgracious you really are.
I mean, you just were sononchalant about it.
So long story short, I leftthere and I was just like what
in the world?
Why didn't I ask him to be onthe podcast?
(01:34):
We had such a greatconversation.
I was genuinely in awe of whoyou were.
I came around the corneroutside and I came around the
(02:00):
corner outside.
There was this huge banner thatsaid you could win a $25,000
sculpture from John Hare.
I said his name's John Hare.
I know I have a name now, andso I immediately started
Googling you, even before I gothome, and there you were.
I emailed you, you called meand here we are.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yes, well, thank you so much for doing this, because
I know that you are very, verybusy.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I am pretty busy right now, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Well, I just wanted to give our listeners a brief
introduction to who you are.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
You are the official Olympic sculptor.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
You have created sculptures for even some stars,
because I found some Okay USOlympic Committee, the US Air
Force Academy, computer SciencesCorporation, cities from around
the world like Beijing andShanghai, and the Emmys Hall of
(02:51):
Fame, and over 50 colleges,universities and schools.
I've looked at your sculptures.
All of them are stunning andjust take on the essence of what
you are trying to convey yourOlympic strength.
I mean, it exemplifies strength.
Your historical figures, fromMother Teresa to Abraham Lincoln
(03:14):
, martin Luther King, gandhi,frederick Douglass, george
Washington, to name just ahandful of them, seriously
demonstrate their personalities.
You have over 150 public artcommissions.
(03:35):
That's correct.
I am not kidding when I saythat they are stunning and
everyone listening.
Please go to johnhaircom andcheck out his work.
But before we get into yourbeginnings and check out his
work, but before we get intoyour beginnings, can I ask you
if you could share about theprocess of sculpting and now how
long it takes to make one ofthose really large pieces?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Well, you know, the first thing you have to do is
win the commission because, theyput out a call for artists and
you submit your qualificationsand some samples of your work
and if you make the short listthere can be usually five or ten
other sculptors that are alsoselected.
And then we sculpt a smallerversion of it called the
(04:18):
maquette, and you send that in.
And if they like your maquette,if they like your idea, they
think they, they think they canget the best product from you
then you win the commission.
So almost all the over 150commissions that I've had I've
won like 95% of them.
I've been very fortunate, verylucky really, because in the art
(04:43):
world I'm really a nobody.
Very lucky really Because youknow in the art world.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I'm really a nobody, Because the kind of work I do in
the art world is not considereda valid art form.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Well, I saw your work and I would say that it is a
valid art form.
I don't understand why they was.
Is sculpting not considered?
You know we're in the art worldof Campbell's Soup Can Labels
getting $60 million, the BunnyRabbit Balloon Guy you know it's
just gimmicky junk like that.
And since I was born I've hadthis thing inside me I want to
(05:19):
be a great artist, right, right.
I sat in the basement of a oneroom schoolhouse in Iowa where I
was born, with my five brothersand sisters and my mom and dad.
We had no walls in the basement, just clotheslines with sheets
hung up with clothespins.
That kind of divided it intorooms.
(05:40):
But the one thing we did havewas we had a bookcase and in the
bookcase was the World BookEncyclopedia.
And while my dad was workingand my mom was out running
around, if John would be thegood guy and take care of all
the kids and make sure that thedishes were done and the diapers
(06:01):
were changed and everybody wasin bed, well then, when mom came
home with her boyfriend, well,he'd play me a game of chess,
which he never did, but I'd sitthere waiting for them after I
cleaned the house and put allthe kids to bed and I'd look
through the World BookEncyclopedia.
I saw these fantasticsculptures and beautiful
(06:21):
illustrations of Spanish stepsand just gorgeous artwork.
And I one night I was sittingthere and I looked at it at the
bookcase and I said that's thevolume H.
I wonder if there's anybody inthere with my last name.
I looked through and I said no,there isn't.
You know, maybe I'll be the guythat can get my name in an
encyclopedia.
(06:42):
Maybe I'll be the guy that cando that.
Of course, now everybody has aWikipedia page, so that's not a
goal.
My goal right now is just tostay alive and stay in business
and support my family.
I've got three kids.
I've paid for three master'sdegrees.
My kids never had to get acollege loan.
(07:05):
I sent them through college totry to get them prepared for
being successful in life andthat's like my whole thing.
And when I went to art school Ididn't like the art that was
being done.
The Campbell's Soup Can Labeland Abrillo Box is in the art
history book and some guy takesa camper and parks it in front
(07:25):
of a government building andtakes a photograph of it.
Then he takes a camper andparks it in front of a grocery
store and so he parks this thingwhere it doesn't belong and
he's in the art history book.
You know, the same guy thatsaid a urinal was a piece of art
, that kind of stuff.
So when I got to art school Iwas very disappointed in what
(07:48):
the art world really was and Ithought you know what, if I've
got to do this kind of stuff tomake a living, I'm just not
going to do it.
I'll go drive a truck, whichI'd done before.
I had plenty of jobs.
I drove a laundry truck.
I worked in factories.
I cleaned toilets at night.
I truck.
I worked in factories.
I cleaned toilets at night.
I did my first freelance art jobwhen I was nine years old,
(08:10):
because we had no money and Iwanted to rent a room that was
in the music store window.
I didn't have it.
So I got my own jobs and Ifigured early in life I realized
that nobody was going to helpme.
There was no adult that was onmy side.
There was no adult that caredabout me.
There was no adult that becauseit was all just you know,
(08:32):
turmoil and drama from all thethings that happened.
So we went from the basement toan orphanage for a while, got
the treatment there.
You know I'm sorry, poor whitekid, you know.
Then we got shipped from theredown to my grandma's house in
Florida because nobody can trustmy mom and my dad had to go
(08:53):
work overseas to make up all themoney that she went through
when he was there the first timeand same thing there.
I just found out recently afriend of mine in St Petersburg,
florida.
I told him that the elementaryschool I went to in St
(09:14):
Petersburg back in the 1950syeah, told me, awesome, a kid's
school, oh, wow, okay, my mom,for years your parasites, your
parasites beatings all the time.
And finally, you know, when youget to a point where you know
you're going to get a beatingfor nothing.
So now I'm going to getsomething out of it.
You know I'm going to, I'mgoing to stick at this one of
her boyfriends or somebody, if Iget the chance.
(09:36):
So my thing in life is I'vejust been trying to survive,
that's it, and I've done apretty good job at it so far.
Of course I've been through alot, you know.
Personally, really, you knowthings that I don't know kind of
tear you up but you have tobuild, tear you down but you
have to build yourself back up.
(09:56):
You know you have to.
You realize that you have to doit yourself.
You know, especially if you'rean art like me, an artist and a
musician, people don't call homeand say honey, on the way home,
could you stop by the store andpick up a sculpture?
You don't do that, you know.
So you've got to stand yourground, you've got to not take.
(10:17):
My thing is this Don't give up,no matter what the consequences
are.
Don't give up.
You'll get through it.
Give in and have everybody tellyou what you should be doing
when you know what you should bedoing.
You just haven't found a way todo it yet.
But don't give out, justtotally just forget it.
And you know, go be a drugaddict or something, cause
(10:37):
that's what a lot of people do,I think, and I just worked hard
to.
You know, the one thing Iwanted to do when I grew up was
have a normal family and raisesome kids that were normal and
had an opportunity to succeed inlife and know that they're
loved and cherished.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
You didn't want anything like how you were
raised or not raised.
Nobody even raised you.
Nothing Didn't write that Well,you know.
You kind of touched onsomething that I think I also
have, that we were beat down andbeat down and beat down as
young kids, but for some reasonwe didn't let it take hold of us
(11:17):
and we still stayed on a path,no matter how hard it was, and
we didn't give up.
It kind of like that ThomasEdison thing where he tried
10,000 ways to make the lightbulb and he finally figured it
out.
I mean, lots of people don'thave that and they quit way
before you know they finally getover that hurdle and they get
to where they're wanting to go.
(11:38):
But for some reason you didn'tlet all those beatings and that
living in the basement and theorphanage and everything else
take you down to a point whereyou didn't even want to function
and be your best self well, Ihad moments like that.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
okay, it's like that, but, um, I pick myself up and
just keep on going.
You know, my thing in life isput your head down and go, and
one of my favorite quotes isabout I think Cecil B DeMille
asked his brother how come hewas so successful, and he said
well, because he bit off morethan he could chew, and then he
chewed it.
(12:14):
Right, I think I'm going tostick my head in the noose to
try to get ahead, and if I hang,that's fine, but I'm going to
give it my shot.
So I've kind of always beenthat way.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Because what are you going to do when you're in the
situation that you're in?
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So has your family ever looked at your career, the
family, your mom and dad andsaid look what he did without us
or in spite of us?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
No, not really my mom .
You know, I got on a plane withher.
She was, you know, losing alittle bit of her mental
faculties when she got reallyolder and she told people on the
airplane that I was anexecutive at Bank of America.
Oh, okay, so, she, okay so.
And you know, basically,basically, before I got into the
(13:05):
sculpture thing, I was an artdirector.
You know, when I was a kid Iwatched that show Bewitched.
Yeah, I did too, and I evenworked at an ad agency.
He was an artist, but that'd bethe coolest job I could do art
and still be creative, come upwith ideas for ad campaigns.
So when I was in art school anddiscussed what was really going
(13:26):
on in the art world which isreally not anything to do with
art I wish people would realizethat it's all about money.
It's all about money and thesegroups of gallerists who have
millions of dollars, who willfind an artist that they can
promote.
They buy his stuff, they sendit to Sotheby's, they auction it
(13:52):
off and they stick it in awarehouse for a year.
Then they bring it back toSotheby's and auction it off
again and if nobody buys it,they rebuy it themselves to keep
the value of that going up.
So that's what people look atin art today.
It's billionaires andmillionaires making money off of
some artists that probablycouldn't make it on his own.
(14:14):
Guggenheim, the woman that waswith Hemingway and all those
people she's kind of the onethat started all that.
That art doesn't really havehave to be good.
Art doesn't have to besomething that people look at
and get joy.
That's what I love aboutsculpture.
I can go to a university and aperson will be.
I get calls huh, mr hair, Iwalk out of my way just to go
(14:38):
buy your sculpture in themorning because it makes me feel
good, that's I love.
So if I'm making people feelgood with my art, and then I see
the way that figurative art hasbeen condemned.
And these guys were all hacks.
Michelangelo and Rembrandt,these guys were all hacks.
If you look at American artmagazines, they're just a bunch
(15:01):
of idiots who are just trying tomake money off of art.
Uh, that have no real soul forart, no feeling for art art can
uplift.
When I have these, uh, here's aninteresting story.
There was a.
There was a guy that was aprofessor, a black guy.
He was the first professor atthe university of south carolina
(15:22):
after the War.
Right, okay, so they want tocommemorate this guy now.
So they put out a call forartists.
Okay, I was selected.
I want to do a sculpture of theman.
Okay, everybody loved the idea.
But guess who?
The art department.
Oh, that's not a valid art form, that's all passe, that's all
(15:46):
junk.
What we really need is a laserlight show, right, oh, my gosh,
that's where their heads are at.
And?
But when I see pictures on theinternet of people standing in
front of Richard T Greener, ninefeet tall black man, on the
campus of the University ofSouth Carolina, they always have
(16:08):
the biggest smiles because theylove the guy.
Now he's inspiring you.
Now you can be like him Exactly.
He was just a person like you,he's not some kind of
supernatural being.
And then Frederick Douglasspeople sit beside him kind of
supernatural being.
And then Frederick Douglasspeople sit beside him.
All these people that reallymade a difference in their lives
(16:31):
can make a difference in ourlives if we let people know who
they were and what they did.
And that person sitting thereon the bench, frederick Douglass
, is one of my favorites.
People want to sit down next tohim.
Be like him.
I love that.
People want to sit down next tohim.
Be like him.
I love that.
So take your light show and hitthe exit.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
It's a shame that that's where art has gone,
because when I look at yoursculptures, they take you to a
moment in time.
I mean, you can actually feelthe presence of this person.
That's how I felt when I sawthe sculpture from the movie.
Even when I'm standing in frontof it, it felt like I was right
(17:12):
there.
Well.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I appreciate that I did.
Mr Rogers for his hometown inPennsylvania and his sister was
there for the unveiling and shesat down on the bench next to
him and kissed him on the cheekand said it is my brother.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Oh, my goodness See, you get the details and the
lines and all the things.
I mean.
You really do capture theperson.
I mean, what in you is able todo that?
Maybe it's just the artist, I'mnot sure.
But you take it even further.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Well, I think, for example, a historic person like
George Washington.
Okay, if I get commissioned toGeorge Washington, the first
thing that I'm going to do is goon the internet and find as
many pictures of him as I can.
Now, there wouldn't be anyphotographs, but there'll be
paintings and drawings, and afew sculptures maybe.
And if you look at him in eachphase of his life, he doesn't
(18:08):
look like the same person.
So which one do you do?
For me, it's how does he appearin the public mind?
That's what I want to capture.
When people think of GeorgeWashington, which one of these
faces do they see in their head?
So that's where I go with theportraiture, and I think
probably that's why it connectswith so many people, because
(18:31):
it's kind of what's in thepublic mentality.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Now, I don't know anything about sculpting and you
really brought this thing in methat I want to know more about
it.
So I mean, what is the process?
You get the commission, you getthe job and then you go into
your workshop.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Well, you know what?
I really had no idea.
I was going to be a sculptor.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
What did you see yourself doing that young John?
What did you see him doing?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I just wanted to create art that made people feel
good.
That's it.
I wanted to get the samefeeling that I got when I was
looking through the World Bookencyclopedia Wow, look at that,
that is beautiful.
Wow, look at that, that is socool.
Wow, look at that, that'sartistry.
It took someone with technicalabilities and talent and skill
(19:22):
and vision to do that.
That's unlike most people.
I had an ad agency.
I was very successful.
I was an art director for 20some years and, oh, I was 49
years old and, uh, I was bored.
Yeah, I told my wife, let's gointo some art shows because
(19:44):
maybe I got some real art inhere, besides the advertising
stuff, besides her logo at theairport, uh, besides the uh, all
the uh artwork that I've donefor general electric and big
clients like that over the 20years that I was an art director
.
Um, I just wanted to dosomething different.
So I told my wife, let's go seesome shows.
Well, we went to seven showsthat year.
(20:06):
The last show was was in NewYork city at the Javits center,
and I saw a guy I saw drawingand painting, which that's what
I did as an art director for 25years.
I sat at my table with my 300marker set and did renderings on
uh, on paper for foradvertising campaigns and
television spots and things likethat.
Uh, but I saw a guy doing asculpture and I said that's it,
(20:28):
right there, man, that's cool,I'm going to do that.
I went back to Charlotte, whichwas my ad agency was I rented a
studio across the hall and atnight when the kids were all
tucked in and their prayers weresaid and their homework was
done and well, dad would go overand work until like one or two
in the morning sculpting.
That was the hard part because,uh, my studio and my agency are
(20:50):
on the second floor of theshopping center in Charlotte and
right out the window, while I'msculpting at one o'clock in the
morning, is a place called theIrish Q bar, a rock and roll bar
, and I thought, man, we'redoing over here, I should be
over there playing my drums,right, yes?
But I, I kept it up and afterabout a month or two we had
(21:12):
enough sculptures to get in theshow.
And then the advertisingbusiness in January is really
dead because everybody spent alltheir money for the year and
they haven't really decided whatthey're going to do for the
coming year and I found thismagazine called Sunshine Artists
where I could see that inFlorida during the wintertime
there was an art show everyweekend in some city in Florida.
So I told my wife.
(21:37):
I said you know what, let's dothose shows.
So I signed up.
They accepted me right awaybecause as an art director I had
beautiful printed material ofall my sculptures.
First show was in Naples,florida.
I drove down there.
It was cold as hell, raining,oh man.
It was cold as hell, raining,oh man.
It was miserable.
And my wife, after three daysof that, said, okay, I'm right
in the car taking the kids backto charlotte.
(21:59):
We'll see you in three weeks,oh wow.
My next show was in fortlauderdale.
So I had to drive through theeverglades, which I was familiar
with because I grew up in northmiami beach.
I my music all over Miami.
That's when Miami Beach waslike the strip in Vegas Bright
lights, beautiful hotels, allthe biggest talent in the world
(22:20):
coming there.
I played all those hotels.
I did that and so I knew my wayaround Florida and through the
Everglades and I finally getthrough the Everglades to the
Miami city limits and there'sthis big casino going up,
miccosukee Resort.
Okay, I said these guys, theyneed a warrior in front of that
(22:41):
place.
So I pulled in there and I saidwho do I want to talk to about
a sculpture?
They said, well, you're goingto have to go back about 40
miles to the village and talk tothe tribal chairman.
So I backtracked.
I went in I said hey, I'm Johnhere.
I'm a sculptor in the area.
I see you're building thisbeautiful new casino.
I'd like to do a sculpture foryour entrance.
(23:02):
Can I talk to the chairmanabout that today?
Oh, no, man, the chairman's avery important person.
He won't be able to see you.
Okay, he's booked up for twomonths.
I said well, would you mind if Ijust sit here?
Maybe he's got five minutes.
You know, I just want to givehim my brochure and introduce
myself.
Sit there all day if you want,but he won't be able to see you.
(23:22):
So I did.
I sat there all day and fiveo'clock came.
So I drove out of there and Ithought you know what?
I don't have an art show untilSaturday.
I got the whole week.
So I pulled over and I got aroom in this little one down
motel.
Next morning I was back there.
Hi, I'm John here, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah.
Sit there all day if you want,but you won't be able to talk to
(23:47):
him.
So I sat there all day Tuesday,all day Wednesday, all day
Thursday.
By Thursday, these tribalelders that were walking in back
and forth out of this guy'soffice kept looking at me and
say we're not going to talk toyou.
White man, what are you stupid?
And I just smiled at him and Ithink to myself I'm here till
five o'clock on Friday.
Well, at 4.45 on Friday, guesswho came out of her office?
(24:09):
His secretary.
Okay, chairman, we'll see younow.
I thought you know.
So I got in, I showed him mybrochure.
He had a couple of NativeAmerican pieces that I had done
which he really liked, and Isaid well, I thought you'd like
to sculpt her for your beautifulnew casino.
And he says well, we wanted tosculpt her, but we couldn't find
one.
(24:29):
I said well, I've been sittingin your waiting room for five
days now.
He says, yes, and you're themost.
He stuck his finger right in myface yes, you're the most
persistent person I've ever met.
We sat down and talked forabout 10, 15 minutes.
I told him I'd get back to himwith a proposal.
So I went to Fort Lauderdale,did my show Friday night,
(24:53):
saturday night, sunday night Iwas at Kinko's place putting
together these 12-page fullyillustrated and detailed
proposals eight copies for eachone for one of the tribal
council members.
And when morning came, guesswho's sitting there?
When he walked in I was thelast person he saw on Friday,
first for it, and he did adouble take, kind of irritated,
and he goes what are you doinghere now?
I said well, I told you, I dida double take, kind of irritated
, and he goes what are you doinghere now?
(25:13):
I said well, I told you I'd getback to you with a proposal.
He said already.
I said let me tell yousomething.
My friend, I'm not the harethat lost the race.
Oh, wow, that's good.
He got a chuckle, because I'vegot a pretty good sense of humor
.
He got a chuckle out of that.
We sat down and I walked out ofthere with a check for $115,000
(25:40):
and my first monumentalcommission.
I was on cloud nine for about ahalf an hour until I realized,
oh my God, I don't know how todo those big things.
I'm doing little stuff likethis, you know.
Yeah, I got through it, itworked out and that kind of an
attitude has really helped me alot.
When I was in art school inColumbus I had a part-time job,
worked at a hotel at night, putmyself through art school
(26:01):
playing my drums.
I get a call from the union hey, this big RCA recording group's
coming into Columbus for twoweeks and they're looking for a
drummer.
So back then you had to be inthe union.
Okay, I have a union card formiami, new york and in vegas
because I played all over and Iwas very well known because I'm
a great drummer.
(26:21):
When I play people get up anddance.
I got you know it's in me.
It's, uh, same as the art thing.
I just my mom said I knew youwere going to be a drummer
because you used to sit on thesand pileile and beat on the
oatmeal box.
That's amazing.
I went in there, I got in line.
There were eight drummers inline.
I was number six and I wasthere for over an hour while the
(26:43):
other guys auditioned.
They were auditioning, they hada huge orchestra with an
orchestra leader.
So after drummer number fivegot down, the orchestra leader
came over to the three of us andsaid well, thanks for coming,
guys.
But we got the guy we want.
I said you got the guy you want.
What do you mean?
You got the guy that you want.
There's three of us here.
We could blow that guy away.
You don't know that you shouldlet us play.
(27:05):
I got to hear here's my letterfrom the union.
You're going to audition.
He goes.
I'm sorry that this is overaudition.
He goes.
I'm sorry that this is over.
This audition is over.
And he walked away from me and Ilooked at his as he walked away
from me.
It really got me irritated.
Here's another guy treating melike I'm nothing.
I looked at him walking thatway and I looked up on the stage
and saw those drums and I madea beeline for that drum set on
(27:29):
there.
I started playing.
I did like a two minute drumsolo.
I could see the guy.
His face just got red.
It just went up like that andhe came raging over and one of
the singers put his hand on hisshoulder.
He goes hey, wait a minute, man.
This guy said, pretty good,what fun to play.
So I played, I, I, and then Igot back down and I went back.
I got in line, I stood thereand I saw him over there in
(27:50):
their little huddle and the guycomes over and he says well, you
were right, we didn't have theguy we want, we want you.
So that's one of the reasonsthat I've been able to survive,
because I don't let people putme down and I don't put other
people down.
You know people get a thingabout I'm going to put that guy
(28:11):
in his place.
I don't have that With me.
You don't have a place.
Your place is you.
I just treat you as anindividual, like I'd like you to
treat me with respect.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Well, your drums took you places, because I also
heard that you played with JimiHendrix.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, that was absolutely the kindest, nicest,
most generous, soft-spokenperson I've ever met in my
entire life.
I love that guy.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
What a wonderful experience.
Well, it kind of was and wasn't.
I was playing my drums in Miami.
I was a well-known drummer downthere for a long time and I was
17 years old and I got a callfrom this band in Miami.
They had sold a.
Miami was a huge rock and rollmarket.
There were clubs everywhereback in the 60s.
(29:04):
There were hundreds of bandsand you could sell 100,000
records in Miami that's how manypeople were there and there
were 50 clubs everywhere.
You can always go and get a gig.
Um, so I, I did that for a longtime.
Uh, so that this big bandcalled me and said well, we're
going to new york for the summerto cut an album we got signed
(29:26):
at cbs and we'd like you to beour drummer.
So I said, went with them.
Well, the girl in the band waslike probably 19 or 20 and she
kind of had a thing for me.
I think that's why they pickedme out as the drummer.
Besides, I was the best drummerin Miami period.
And so we went to New York.
(29:47):
Cbs got us engaged.
We worked in the East Village.
We did Columbia Pictures afterparty for a big movie.
We worked at CBS in the daytimeand played our music around New
York at night.
And one night we're in the cluband the guy our guy from CBS
(30:09):
comes sits at a table.
And here's the singer.
Her mom, from Miami, is therewith some big, chunky looking
guy.
Okay, right.
So I went over to the table andhe says oh, you know, uh, the
CBS, yeah, we're, we're going to, we're going to take you guys
out to dinner after the, afterthe show.
And we got a little when Italked to you about the, you
(30:29):
know, about the album and allthat.
So they took us to dinner andbasically just fired me and the
bass player because the motherwanted me out of the band.
She called me a pennilesssleepwalker.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
So somebody else now putting you down, yeah always,
always.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
So I kind of okay, I, I get it.
So we got fired and a coupledays later I'm, uh, I'm sitting
by the phone and the bass player, who was from CBS you know an
older black guy who's beenaround New York a long time he
goes.
Uh, hey, john, this guy, jimiHendrix, is in town.
You want to go meet him?
I said never heard of him.
He goes, nobody has.
(31:12):
But everybody's going to.
So we find out the hotel he was.
We went up and knocked on hisdoor in his room.
And who answers the door?
Two of the Isley brothers.
Oh my gosh, hey, you guys areworking an album at CVS, you
guys are playing down in thevillage.
Yeah, we know all the talentthat comes into town.
They told us Okay, what are youdoing now?
(31:33):
I said, well, you know, the bandbroke up and I'm going to spend
August in New York and then I'mprobably going to go back to
Miami and finish high school.
And you know what the guy saidto me what Did you consider
staying in New York and beingour drummer?
I thought, well, isley Brothers, I didn't know much about them.
I knew my mom listened to them.
So, anyway, jimmy came up, hewas the nicest and he was very
(32:01):
soft-spoken.
And I asked one of the IsleyBrothers I said why is Jimmy so
soft-spoken?
He said well, if you were ayoung black kid growing up in
Seattle back in the 40s and 50s,you did not speak unless you
were spoken to and he carriedthat through his adult life.
Okay, but what a sweet, just akind man.
(32:22):
So we went out, we partied.
There was more drugs in thatthing that you could even count
Right.
So that was a part of it.
When they say if you said youlived in the 60s but you can't
remember and you remember it,you really don't, cause I I
don't remember a lot of that.
I remember Jamel.
With Jimmy we went up to a bigskyscraper where the rascals had
a practice spot.
(32:43):
There was all kinds of greatmusicians from all over New York
, people that you never heard of, and we just went around New
York city and went from club toclub and jam to jam all night
and we just had the greatest,the greatest time.
And I saw the guy came toCleveland because I, after that
summer in New York I decided tojust leave Miami, get rid of the
(33:07):
music business.
Okay, go move in with my dad,who lived in Ohio, and go to
Ohio state and follow my art.
So that's what I did, uh, butwhile in while in Ohio, I got uh
a lot of gigs from a lot ofother musicians that were
traveling through the state, soI'm fairly well known.
Even right now I can go to SanFrancisco at a place called the
(33:28):
saloon.
Uh, my buddy, dave Workman,plays out there all the time,
and last time I came out thereand sat in with him he said just
call me the next time you'recoming into town.
I'll book you as my drummer forthe night.
So that's what I'm lookingforward to.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
You know, I always have this thing and you've been
touching on it the entire timeis, 90% of success is showing up
and you just keep showing upand showing up.
And even well, when you satthere for five days and waited
for him to come out, I mean thatis persistence.
But I mean that's what you'redescribing here and you were in
(34:02):
the right place at the righttime with Simon and Garfunkel.
Yeah, I was?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Well, we were.
We had the same A&R man, whichis arrangements and repertoire.
Same A&R man, which isArrangements and Repertoire.
We came in to do a session andthey were still in there.
They were taking up our timeslot.
So I wasn't crazy about that.
I really never liked ArtGarfunkel.
I'd never seen the guy smile.
(34:26):
There's always some kind ofproblem with that guy.
Now, paul Simon was pretty nicebut they were going over a song
for their Bookends album andthey didn't like what the studio
drummers at CBS did and theycouldn't figure out.
It was a very unusual song withdifferent tempos and rhythms in
it.
And Paul Simon just looked atme and goes you're a drummer,
(34:47):
give us some ideas.
I said, okay, they had a littletape player.
I said they had a little tapeplayer.
I said you know, run the tapefor me a couple of times.
And then I laid down all thestuff for that song and it's on
the album.
But I never got a credit.
I doubt if folks ever evenremember me, because who was I?
Some nobody drummer for a groupfrom Miami that never really
made it.
So that's okay.
(35:08):
I had those experiences and Icherish them and there's more to
come, hopefully.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
You keep referring to yourself as, like this, nobody
and like you know, people haveput you down all your life, but
I think that, even though yousometimes hear other people's
definitions of you, you stillhave created your own
definitions of yourself, wouldyou say.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, I think so.
I never really thought about itthat way, but I've kind of come
through this with you know myown picture of me, and what is
that compared to how?
What other people's voices?
Speaker 1 (35:48):
have been in your head.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
I want people to say when I'm gone he was a great dad
, okay, he was a great grandpa.
He's a great, great, greatgrandpa, which I am a great
grandpa.
Okay, he did something with hislife that benefits other people
.
My artwork, that's around, that.
(36:16):
People see it.
They, they're, they're, uh,they're motivated by it.
You know, they, they, they getenjoyment out of seeing it.
They, uh, it touches a part ofthem that maybe they didn't even
know it existed.
Because who goes and looks atart and goes oh man, I look at
all art, I love, I love, I likeall art.
Uh, to me, if you're an artistand you can make a living in
(36:37):
this environment, more power toyou.
And if you're doing the bunnyrabbit balloon, that's your
thing, but that's all you got.
I'm not interested in seeingmore balloon animals.
You know what I'm saying, right?
I always challenge myself to.
Even when I was a drummer, Itried not to play the same lick
twice in a night, everythingplaying different.
And I tried to do that with myart too, that's so amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
How did you go from that kid that just got up there
on that stage and startedplaying to get the people in the
room to hear you and give youthe gig, to how who you became.
How did you get from that tothat?
Just keep doing that.
You just kept showing up.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
You just kept going up, be persistent One.
I've been married twice.
My first wife ran away with amotorcycle mechanic, and my
second wife Now we're gettingready to celebrate our 48th
wedding anniversary.
Oh, congratulations.
She's been with me all thattime.
She's helped me a lot.
She really has.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Having someone genuinely care and be in your
care, because she came from areal family.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
She came from a real family, you know.
Her uncle and aunt got killedin a car wreck so her dad took
in her two nieces Okay, right,so five kids in a two-bedroom
apartment raised them up, thatkind of a thing and they were
(38:10):
proud Catholics and veryreligious and, you know,
principled.
And her father was a great guy.
He had a saying and I stillstick with it Always do what's
right and you can't go wrong.
Right, that's it.
I just keep that under my beltand whenever I'm in a situation
(38:32):
I think of that.
That's it.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
I just keep that under my belt and whenever I'm
in a situation, I think of that.
Yeah, you had a lot of wrongdone to you with five kids
living in a basement as youstart Six.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Oh, six kids living in a basement.
You know I mean you A one-roomschoolhouse.
That's not a big basement.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Who was living upstairs?
Can I, because I don't know my-dad was.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
My dad was working three jobs, one of those jobs as
a carpenter, and he was tryingto finish the upstairs, uh, so
that we could live upstairs.
But, um, my mom ran around onhim.
He never knew it.
Uh, her and her boyfriend said,hey, we got to get Archie
that's my dad's name, archiehe's passed away now.
(39:15):
So, she, we got to get Archieout of town.
So we can you know we can, wecan be free to party.
Let's get him a job overseas.
So they looked through thenewspaper.
They found a job for acarpenter in Thule, greenland,
building an Air Force base onthe Arctic Circle, for a year.
Sign up for a year.
(39:37):
You get $1,200 a month, whichin 1955 was a lot of money.
It's three or four times whathe could make working three jobs
in Iowa.
So he went off for a year andwhen he got back, mom was gone,
the money was gone and the kidswere in the basement by
themselves.
Now what are we going to dowith them?
(39:57):
So that was the situation.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
So that's how you ended up in the orphanage.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
That's how we ended up in the orphanage, because my
grandma took the baby, my oneaunt took the two girls and
nobody wanted the three boys, sothe three of you.
In the Linn County Iowachildren's home, formerly known
as the home for the friendless.
Oh my goodness, and that wasbad.
(40:24):
But you know what?
I broke the bank twice inMonopoly when I was at that
orphanage and they made us workoutside and do yard work and
stuff like that.
That place was the best lookingplace after I got done with it.
Why do I believe that?
My thing is my mother hated us.
Why do I believe that my thingis my mother hated us.
(40:46):
When I was a drummer at 14,playing Miami Beach, I'd drive
my drums into the house at twoin the morning and there'd be a
double sink with dishes piled upas far as you could see, with a
note on there that said John,do these or else, because nobody
else would do it.
My older brother was a goldbrick.
(41:06):
He never did a damn thing.
I was the one that dideverything because I was super
obedient.
I didn't want to get beaten.
I did whatever I had to do tonot get beaten.
But when I got in there Istarted doing those dishes.
I cleaned that whole kitchenspotless.
I was up like for two hours.
I said if I'm going to do it,it's going to be the best that
(41:29):
can be done and that's just kindof my attitude, whether it's
cleaning the floor, painting ahouse or doing art or playing.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
You can't teach that?
I don't think, because thereare so many kids and people
today that really want thingsdone for them and they don't.
They want to get things forfree.
So you know and and what Ireally like about what and and I
was exactly the same way.
I mean I was a scrapper, I meanI did everything I could to
make it and nobody I just I justgo after the hustle because I
(42:04):
learned really young that Icouldn't rely on anybody.
If I was going to do something,be something, create something,
I had to rely on myself.
And you learned that really,really young as well.
So you were that little littlekid how old were you in the
basement when you were lookingat those world book
encyclopedias, would you say?
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Well, by then I was probably.
Uh well, let's see.
Catholic school, first gradesix six years old and you knew
then that you wanted to get inthat book yeah, I knew then,
because I I I admired the, theartwork that was in there so
much that I wanted to be withthat group of people so you
(42:45):
didn't start sculpting.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Until what year?
Was it 2000 or something?
Speaker 2 (42:51):
like that.
I was 49 years old.
I had my head in and see it wasdoing really well, right, but I
was just bored, right.
People go well.
How come you're not in thesculpture Boredom?
Speaker 1 (43:02):
So I mean, you held on to those images in your head
all those years and it still wasinside of you and you just
wanted to start creating that.
I mean, that's an absolutebeautiful story.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Well, it's just kind of.
You know the way I was born.
I think I got the art G.
That's what I think Now.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
you did say to me in a conversation that unless you
have this absolute burningdesire inside of you to do this,
don't even bother.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Well, yeah, because a lot of parents will ask me oh,
my son or my daughter, they wantto major in art, and you know,
at the university of so-and-so.
What do you?
What do you think?
I tell them don't do it,because the art world, uh, and
the music world, you have tocreate your own clients.
There's nobody out therewaiting for you to come on the
(43:55):
scene.
Right, you gotta go for it, yougotta go, you have to make.
Yeah, so unless you've got thisthing, like I like I've had my
whole life is burning inside.
Remember that movie, alien,where that thing popped up out
of that guy yeah, I've had thatmy whole life, right in here,
kind of like pushing me.
You know, john, do something,get up, don't sit.
(44:15):
Make something, draw something,paint something, build
something.
When I was a kid, I took thelawnmower and I, when I drove
the lawnmower around all thebushes out in the back by the
woods and I took scraps ofsiding and made yield signs and
stop signs and I had my littlecar that I would drive around in
there, like five, six years old.
(44:37):
So that's kind of been in meall this time.
I'm glad it is, because it'sthe only thing that's helped me
to survive.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
And you know, one of the other things that I've heard
you say through this wholeentire thing is that you want to
create joy in other people.
Yes, and the heaviness.
Isn't that our purpose forbeing here?
Speaker 2 (44:58):
I say that all the time.
Isn't that our purpose?
Speaker 1 (45:03):
It absolutely is.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
My purpose.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Isn't that our purpose?
It absolutely is my purpose,yeah, and I feel, and I had felt
very young, that that was mypurpose as well, and I was
silenced and silenced and toldmany different ways that I
didn't matter or whatever.
And so you know, here I amdoing this podcast and I've done
different art and I've been ajournalist and different things,
(45:26):
and I really do believe thatwhen you come from those kind of
beginnings that we've got somuch pain within us to offer to
other people, which will turn itinto joy, you know, I mean, we
just offer such a differentperspective in life and we want
to show people the joy inside ofus instead of the pain that we
(45:50):
went through.
One of the things that Iwondered was do you take the
pain from your beginnings andput them into your art?
Put it into your art?
No, no, not at all.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
The artwork really isn't.
I don't view the artwork as anextension of myself.
I'm creating.
I'm creating that specificthing.
It has its own life.
Okay, that's.
The art has really not much todo with me and my painting.
Once I create that one, itstands on its own.
(46:25):
You know, and I just visitedsome relatives in South Carolina
yesterday and took twosculptures that I had in my
warehouse to give to family asgifts.
Those people really appreciatedit.
You know, A little sculpture ofClifford Brown the trumpet
player.
Clifford Brown, the trumpetplayer.
(46:45):
I left with my nephew becausehe was from a mixed family and
he's the only guy I ever knewthat had a Clifford Brown album
because his dad listened toClifford Brown.
I said this guy needs thelittle muck pack that won the
commission in Wilmington,Delaware, my eight foot statue
(47:05):
of Clifford Brown.
But there are, you know,Clifford Brown, great musician,
right up my alley.
I love to.
I want to do a Hendrix.
That guy was fantastic.
Oh my gosh, I want to do that.
You know, I did a great Obamafor the Mecklenburg Democratic
Party.
Those people really inspire me,you know.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Have you ever gone to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
in Cleveland or said to them youknow, I want to do a sculpture
for you guys.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
No, when I left Miami and went to Ohio to go to Ohio
State and live with my dad.
I was at home one day and I gota call from a girl in Cleveland
.
She goes, john, your picture'sin the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame.
I said, really, she goes, yeah,jimi Hendrix concert.
And I remembered when I cameback from New York he was in
(48:02):
Cleveland a few months later anda bunch of my friend, my
brother's friends actually Ididn't have a car.
I wanted to go see him, so wedrove, we drove up to Cleveland
to see the guy and I got out ofmy seat and went, kind of went
up to the to the stage, kind oftowards the end of the concert,
and he saw me.
(48:22):
He said, hey man, hey man, youknow you don't remember my name,
but you remember my face so atthe end of that concert uh he.
He said uh, you know, can I giveyou something, because he's
always giving things away.
When I was in his hotel room, aphotographer came to the door
and admired his moccasins thathe was wearing, those hippie
kind of things went off.
(48:42):
He goes here, you want them?
He's to give it to the guy asmoccasins.
He's given cars.
He's bought new cars forstrangers, people that he never
met.
The guy's got just a generoussoul.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
That's amazing, but you didn't want to create
anything for the Rock and RollHall of Fame.
Have you ever thought of it?
You?
Speaker 2 (49:02):
know what?
It's such a huge, you't getinto that place.
You know, and as far as I'mconcerned, I'm just they're
concerned, I'm not.
I'm not anybody in rock androll well, yeah, but you're a
drummer and a sculptor, so Ijust wondered well, uh, I never
really thought about, thoughtabout approaching that, you know
(49:23):
, because really in the artworld, man I'm a nobody, you
want another nobody, art versusartist, drummer in the thing.
So I really haven't.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
But yeah, that's a thought.
Like Jimi Hendrix, you could doone I've seen.
I've gone into the Rock andRoll Hall of Fame and I've seen
the Jimi Hendrix exhibit andit's amazing Wow.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Yeah, I need to go up there, I guess.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Yeah, Now how in the world did you see, I don't know,
did you do other busts ofpeople other than Dick Van Dyke,
because I found that picture ofyou standing with him with his
bust?
Speaker 2 (50:05):
Dick Van Dyke, because I found that picture of
you standing with him with hisbust.
I was in the foundry in LAworking on the Olympic monument
and Dick's kind of an artisticguy.
He knew the guy that owned thefoundry and the guy that owned
the foundry told him that hey,the sculptor that's doing the
Olympic thing is here.
So Dick Van Dyke actually camedown to meet me.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
That's amazing, and then that was it.
I mean, he asked you to do that.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
When he walked in I said, oh my God, it's Dick Van
Dyke.
What's he doing here?
You know?
First thing I said I'm going totell everybody that I just met
Dick Van Dyke.
You know what he said?
I'm going to tell everybody, Ijust met the sculptor for the U?
S Olympic team.
That's how cool he was.
So I was going to be.
He's asked me if I did portraits.
I said yeah.
So I I did that little portraitof him.
I took it to his uh and then Ihad to uh before I did the
(51:00):
casting.
I want to make sure he surethat he liked the sculpture.
Right.
So you can take pictures ofsculpture but it doesn't really.
You don't get the sense and thefeel of what it really is like.
So I thought, you know, I gotto put this thing on an airplane
and go out there and get hisokay out before I have it cast.
I took that thing on anairplane, flew it out there,
(51:20):
went to his house.
He loved it and then we did thecasting and I delivered it to
his house in Malibu.
He invited me up there andshowed me around his little tiny
bungalow he lives in.
His wife was there.
When I got to his house.
He was out on the streettalking to these little kids in
the back of a station wagon heykids, what's going on?
(51:42):
Little Bobby, you're one oftheir names.
This is the nicest.
He's another person that I'vejust been honored just to meet.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
I've admired that guy my whole life, Well, and I have
as well, and he's in his 90s,you know, and I mean he's just
still moving and doing things.
And one of the best quotes thatI ever heard him say when they
asked him you know, why can youstill dance and do these things?
Speaker 2 (52:10):
You know, he's like you, just got to keep moving and
man, I tell all my friends youknow I'm going to be 75 in a
month.
All my friends, most of them,are retired.
I go what are you retired for?
You got to keep moving.
Get off the couch.
One of my friends oh my God,I've aged so much since I saw
you two years ago.
I'm this and I'm that.
What are you doing with yourtime?
(52:32):
What do you do with your time?
Get a job.
I told him Get a job.
You've got to stay busy oryou're going to vegetate and
just fade away.
You want to do that, not me.
I'm not fade away.
You want to do that, Not me.
I'm not fading away, I'm goingout with a boom.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
Well, the older we get, the more we know, the more
that we can give back to theworld.
And you know, it's really sadthat some people feel that
they've reached a certain ageand they're done.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Yeah, Well, when you've worked a job that you
really never liked.
I mean, I came in a 40-yearperiod where nobody ever really
got a raise.
That's the time that I grew up.
40 years you really did not gethardly much of a raise.
Yeah, the last ad agency Iworked in before I started my
(53:18):
own ad agency, we had nine artdirectors in there and three of
them got fired.
And then there was a salary a,a salary freeze.
Nobody was going to get a raisefor at least a year.
When they told me that, I walkedinto my boss's office and I
said I want a raise today or Iwill not be back tomorrow.
(53:39):
Okay, we just fired three guysand you're coming in here asking
for a raise.
I said, yeah, who's your numberone producer?
Me.
Who's going to be doing alltheir work?
Me.
So I want to raise, and I wantto raise today or I'm not going
to come back tomorrow.
You'll have to find somebodyelse.
And Well, at the end of the dayhe came back and he goes.
(54:02):
I can't believe it.
The old man said OK.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
You are absolutely amazing.
I love your spirit.
How in the world did you?
Speaker 2 (54:18):
land the Olympic job.
Well, it was a senator fromNorth Carolina that was the
biggest Olympic individualsponsor, I guess you know,
giving them money.
He was a track star at UNC,chapel Hill before the blacks
were allowed in the college.
(54:39):
Ok, when, when, when blackswere finally allowed to come in,
all those records went by thewayside.
Yeah, but he loved the amateursports and he was a supporter of
the Olympic Committee.
So they asked him to build anew strength training center out
there in Colorado Springs attheir training center.
(55:01):
And he called me up and he saidJohn, I want you to come out.
We're going to build a strengthtraining center.
I want you to do a sculpturefor the front of it.
So I went out there.
This was a trip.
This guy's name is Erwin Belt.
I don't know if you ever heardof Belt department stores, but
there's mostly a Southern store.
They have 300 and somedepartment stores.
(55:23):
Huge outfit, huge outfit.
So I went out there.
Um, uh, we went over the, overthe building and what they
wanted, and then they said theywanted us, uh, a sculpture with
the theme of strength.
So then they all took us todinner at the Broadmoor, which
is a, you know, historic, uh,old, big money, old money hotel.
(55:44):
And uh, we sat around, uh haddinner and after the dinner, uh,
one of the sponsor's sons stoodup and he goes my dad has given
you a million dollars to buildthis building and now he's going
to give you more money to put asculpture in front of it and
you're serving us this cheapwine.
I want the good stuff, stuff.
(56:06):
So they started bringing inthis three and four hundred
dollar bottle of wine stuff andeverybody started uh drinking.
Now I don't drink wine, I'm abeer drinker, and that's another
way you get put down at allthese big places.
So to keep from beingdiscriminated against as a beer
drink, a lowly beer drinker, Icame up at one of those
gatherings.
I went to the bartender.
(56:26):
I said take a martini glass,fill it with beer and put three
of them, huge olives, in thereon a stick.
I'm walking around.
Hey, what's that?
That's a beer, teeny, so I'mnot crap anymore after that.
That's uh.
So his son said that.
So now they're saying okay, well, what, what, what, what can we
come up with?
Here's what we thought aboutWould you like one guy on a
(56:48):
bench with a towel around hisneck because he just lifted a
weight and another guy lifting aweight.
Okay, well, that's okay.
I said you know what?
Though, what do you think ofwhen?
What's the one visual thatcomes to mind when you think
about strength?
To me, it's Atlas, right tomind.
When you think about strength,to me, it's Atlas, right, it
held up the universe.
How about we have an Atlasfigure Instead of an Atlas?
(57:13):
We have four Olympic athletesand we can have a female for the
Pan American Games.
We can have an African-Americanguy for the US Olympic team.
We can have an ancient Greek,which was the original, and we
can have the Paralympics, theoriginal and we can have the
paralympics.
That's, that's it, and theycould be holding up the world,
holding the world up on theirshoulders oh, that's a great
(57:33):
idea.
Uh, is there anything you coulddo with the, the olympic
federations?
I said, well, how many arethere?
45?
Yeah, I'll sculpt their logosand relief and run them around
the base of the sculpture.
I sculpted it out on a napkinand showed them that.
And so then the donor says well, John, how much do you think
(57:54):
that's going to cost?
You want to do it life-size?
I said life-size, that's MickeyMouse.
You can't do this life-size.
It has to be at least twicelife-size and it's probably
going to run you a little over amillion dollars.
So you know where the guy goes.
Let's do it.
Oh, my gosh, Everybody was allexcited here.
We had the thing and we had ourdinner and drinks.
(58:18):
And after the dinner and drinkshis oldest son came up to me
and he said you're spending ourinheritance.
I said what said you'respending our inheritance?
I said what?
Yeah, you're spending ourinheritance.
Our dad's giving you all theseprojects.
You're spending our inheritance.
I said what's an inheritance?
He said well, it's the way youget left when your relative dies
(58:41):
.
I said, well, is your fatherstill alive?
Yeah, so then he got.
When I said that he got reallymad and he goes, I could go out
right now and get a dozen guysthat do what you do, Right, Just
like that.
And I said, well, you know,you're probably right, you could
find a lot of guys out therethat could do what I'm doing.
(59:01):
Can I?
Can I ask you a question?
Okay, have you ever been toRome?
Yeah, have you ever been to theVatican?
Yeah, I've been to the Vatican.
Have you ever been to theSistine Chapel and seen that
beautiful ceiling in there?
Oh, yeah, I've been there.
I said who painted that?
He goes, well, everybody knowsthat Michelangelo.
(59:22):
I said, okay, now, who put upthe money for the painting?
Speaker 1 (59:33):
This is the end of part one of John Hare from
Orphanage to Sculptor.
The story will continue in parttwo and you will not want to
miss a word.
This is so inspiring and itproves that life is not over in
your 70s and you can do anythingyou put your mind to, with hard
work, persistence and a burninginside to succeed.
Tune in next week to hear parttwo of John Hare's story.
We will see you next week.
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