April 2, 2025 • 58 mins
Zoe Smith's transformation from policy-maker to holistic healer represents a journey many secretly yearn for but few dare to undertake. After years shaping national healthcare policy in the UK, including work on the groundbreaking "Caring for Our Future" white paper, Zoe found herself trapped in the familiar cycle of 70-hour workweeks and diminishing returns on her wellbeing.
The turning point came dramatically – sitting under her desk, overwhelmed with tears, Googling symptoms of depression. Rather than simply medicating her way through, Zoe chose a different path, taking a courageous five-month pause to reconnect with herself through walking, meditation, yoga, and counseling. What began as a seemingly career-disrupting break became the foundation for an entirely new direction.
Her subsequent professional choices reflect a profound shift in priorities – moving from systemic change to individual impact as a mental capacity advocate, rescuing a failing home care service, and eventually taking the bold leap to teach in China with just two suitcases and an open heart. This decision, made long before the pandemic would reshape global perspectives on health, exposed her to traditional Chinese medicine, acupuncture, and energy-based healing approaches that deeply resonated with her emerging understanding of holistic wellbeing.
Throughout our conversation, Zoe reveals how Eastern approaches to health – from public parks filled with all generations practicing tai chi to efficient healthcare systems integrating traditional and modern medicine – contrast sharply with Western models. She shares practical wisdom about everyday healing tools like essential oils, sound therapy tuned to 432 hertz (the healing frequency), and the transformative power of simply connecting with nature.
Now as founder of Your Vitality Coaching, Zoe offers a unique blend of yoga, reiki, sound therapy, hypnotherapy, and life coaching – all informed by her remarkable journey across professional domains and cultural traditions. Her story reminds us that sometimes our greatest breakdowns lead to our most meaningful breakthroughs, and that courage often means acknowledging fear while refusing to be immobilized by it.
Curious about incorporating traditional healing practices into your life? Explore this episode to discover how small, intentional rituals might transform your wellbeing in ways conventional medicine alone cannot address.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne, and today's guesthas lived a life full of
powerful pivots and purpose.
Zoe Smith's story is one ofreinvention from classroom to
government halls to deep healingand now into a life that helps
(00:20):
others heal too.
Helps others heal too.
Born in Yorkshire, uk, whereshe currently lives, zoe has
traveled across the world andthrough some truly
transformative chapters.
She started out as a religiousteacher, then moved into adult
social care, rising quickly tohelp shape national policies,
(00:42):
including the UK's Caring forOur Future white paper aimed at
reforming the entire care system.
She later took on a major rolewith NHS England, which is
national health services forthose of us who don't know
focused on mental health policy.
But after years ofhigh-pressure work, zoe did
(01:04):
something rare she pressed pause.
She walked away from the systemto reconnect with herself, and
that's where everything changed.
Through walking, yoga,meditation and counseling, zoe
began her own healing journey.
And it didn't stop there.
She became a mental capacityadvocate, helped rescue a
(01:25):
failing home care service andthen fully stepped into the
world of wellness.
She spent two years living andteaching in China, traveled
across Southeast Asia and fellin love with traditional healing
practices along the way Now asthe founder of your Vitality
Coaching.
Zoe brings together everythingshe's learned, offering a blend
(01:48):
of yoga, reiki, sound therapy,qhht, personal training,
hypnotherapy and life coachingto help people heal and thrive
mind, body and soul.
Zoe, welcome to the podcast.
We are so thrilled to have youhere to dive into your
incredible story.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, this is a first for us.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
We've never had someone from the UK.
Our systems and policies arevery different here, but there
is one thing in common acrossthe globe and that is mind, body
and soul transformation.
You know there were many thingsthat shaped you to become the
master, teacher and coach thatyou are today, but you've worked
(02:34):
in government, studied religionand now run your vitality
coaching.
From your time working in adultsocial care, what did you learn
about the challenges in thesystem and how has that shaped
the way you see healing andwellbeing today?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I think when I was working in workforce development
for adult social care, that wasmy role in local government.
And when I moved into anational role, and I think at
that time I had a really goodoverview of what good practice
looked like in that sector and Ithink I was quite up to date on
(03:13):
all of the best practices bothin England and some of the other
countries around the world.
We were able to, for example,look at Christchurch in New
Zealand.
After the earthquake,christchurch did an extensive
remodel of their health andsocial care system and they were
able to really integrate it.
So it was amazing to see thingslike that.
And then when I dropped down toa grassroots level, I very
(03:36):
quickly realised that everythingthat I'd seen at a national
level that was considered goodpractice although there were
pockets of that, it was actuallyquite dependent upon postcode
as to where that good practicewas available.
It wasn't available right acrossthe national offering.
So I think I had a veryaspirational and optimistic view
(03:59):
of what could be achieved fromthe sector to support people's
health and wellbeing.
And then, as I started to workon the frontline, I realised
that actually in a lot of casesthat wasn't happening.
It was hugely dependent onfunding and different areas of
the country, and then, over time, as funding has dwindled and
(04:21):
the economic situation haschanged, that decline has just
got worse.
So, more than ever now, peopleare turning towards alternative
options.
In the past, I think peopleweren't aware of alternatives so
much, and I think now, becausethey're so desperate to improve
the health and so frustrated atwaiting times and availability,
(04:46):
they are much more open totrying different approaches, and
so that's been interesting and,I suppose, for myself.
I was able to use differentapproaches at different points
in my life and they've alwaysworked for me, and so I've been
able to share that and bringthat understanding to the people
that I'm working with in yourvitality coaching.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I think it's amazing.
Your knowledge is so vast, andyou have really taken everything
along the way and just taken itwith you on this journey.
I think that that is sobeautiful.
I think that that is sobeautiful.
One of the things that happenedto you, though, is that you
spent a time like a lot of us dowhere you were just working in
(05:32):
the corporate world.
You were working up to 70 hoursa week.
I mean, what was going on withyou back then?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I am quite an ambitious and determined person,
I would say, and sometimes,when channeled in the right
direction, that can be amazing.
And other times I think,especially when I was younger I
couldn't find the off switch.
I didn't think about myself, Ididn't think about my own
personal needs and self-care,and I was just so focused on
(06:06):
achieving what I wanted to outof my career and making sure
that the projects that I wasmanaging were achieving their
goals.
And, of course, whenever you'remanaging a project in the
corporate world, there's alwaysdeadlines to meet, and they're
never they're always tightdeadlines, you know, you don't
have the luxury of hangingaround.
So I think I got really caughtup in that and there have been
(06:29):
cycles where that's repeateditself in my life.
So when I was working back incorporate, that was the case.
I was working a lot of hours aweek, and then, of course, you
learn from it, you move on, youthink, right, I'm not going to
do that again.
And then suddenly you findyourself doing it again.
So when I came back intoteaching much more recently,
(06:50):
only in the last few years whenI came back into teaching in the
UK, when I came back to the UKthere, I found myself again
working 70 hours a week oh, wow,okay teaching.
However, when you've done itonce and you know it doesn't
work, you you're much more ableto step up and hang on a minute
self-care.
Where have my boundaries gone?
This, this isn't working, andum, and I was able to step out
(07:13):
of that again.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
It teaches you lessons, for sure, um, but only
if you listen to them yeah, Imean you have to listen to your
body and your soul and your mindand everything that encompasses
us and figure out what worksfor us.
And when you were at the heightof your career, you know you
made a bold choice and taking afive month pause and that's a
(07:37):
lesson for all of us, I think toknow that it's OK to take care
of ourselves.
What did you learn aboutyourself during that time of
pause?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
It was a really interesting time in my life
actually, and it shaped who verymuch, who I am today, reshaped
the direction that life went.
I ended up.
I used to work from home a fewdays a week when I was in that
job, and I remember one dayfinding myself sitting
underneath my desk crying andsuddenly thought to myself hang
(08:11):
on a minute.
You're sitting under your deskand you're crying, there's
something not right.
Zoe and I crawled out fromunder the desk and Googled
symptoms of depression and as Ilooked down the list I could
tick pretty much all of them.
So that was sort of whatkickstarted it, because I wasn't
listening to my body fully andI wasn't listening to what was
(08:35):
going on.
And so my body went right,you're going to stop.
And the universe made me stop.
So I did so.
It was an, an enforced stop,and then I was able to take a
step back.
Um, I had counseling and I wasadamant that I didn't want to go
on to antidepressants.
Um, I wanted to find other ways.
(08:56):
So even back then, I reallywanted that self understanding
and the ability to work throughthings, and it was through
through doing that, um, throughthe counselling, I was able to
understand what was going onwith me and at the time I
thought it was a job that I wasin, that just I wasn't happy in
(09:19):
my job, wasn't happy in the team.
Um, I blamed that.
But actually through thecounselling, as I dug a lot
deeper, I uncovered all sortsthings going back to childhood,
all sorts of different things,and when I unpicked it all I
realised that actually not onlywas I not happy in my job at the
time, I wasn't happy in mymarriage and various other
(09:43):
aspects of life.
So the counselling helped mework through all of that and
understand myself on differentlevels that I'd never considered
before.
It's allowed me to free myselfof a lot of the ideas that I had
about myself and to actuallysift through and think about who
(10:03):
I am, and to actually siftthrough and think about who I am
.
But also, alongside that, I wasable to get back to nature and
get out walking every daybecause I'd taken time out of
work so I was able to get out,go walking.
I discovered meditation.
I had discovered yoga quite afew years before, but I didn't
(10:26):
have a regular yoga practice.
It was just something I knewabout and sort of dipped in and
out of every now and then.
But whilst I was off withdepression, I was really able to
explore yoga and I discoveredAshtanga yoga at the time and I
got really into it and I reallyfound that the combination of
the yoga, the meditation,getting out in nature and
(10:49):
walking really helped me throughthe period of depression and
anxiety I was facing.
So I was able to come throughthat and through that whole
process.
That was when I decided actuallyI don't want to be working at a
national level anymore.
I think I felt like I'd learnedand done as much as I wanted to
(11:14):
at that level and I wanted tomove much more into a grassroots
, local kind of level where Iwas actually working with people
and making a difference, and sothat's what I did.
I went back to work.
I retrained as an independentmental capacity advocate, which
in England is someone who workswith people who have been
assessed as lacking mentalcapacity and we help them to
(11:37):
make decisions about health careand where they're living and
those kind of things.
And for people who are in care,who don't have family or whose
family can't visit, then we'reable to go in and check on them,
make sure all their needs arebeing met and that they're being
cared for well, and I reallyenjoyed that role.
(11:57):
It was really nice to be ableto give back and do something
for people.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, I would think that that was a real blessing,
because I've always found whenyou are in roles like that, you
actually get back more.
You do.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, and again, it makes you because you're giving.
It makes you focus on theenergy exchange.
So if you're giving too much ofyourself, you can't do it for
long, so you burn yourself out.
You can't pour from that emptycup.
So it really makes youconstantly aware of what you're
(12:37):
doing and making sure thatyou're looking after yourself as
well.
It really reinforced boundariesfor me.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
You know, that's really important because I've
worked in fields where I was adirector of a battered woman's
shelter and things like that,and it's always really important
to check back with yourself andwe used to have like meetings
at the end of our shifts andjust asking each other you know
how are you, and things likethat, because that was really
important to be able to leavethe job where we needed to leave
(13:09):
it and be okay internallybefore we ended up leaving to go
home, to our families orwhatever, because some of those
things don't leave you and ifyou just continue to have that
build up and build up and younot process it and work through
it, it can really become aproblem.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yes, absolutely yeah.
Having that support in placefor each other as workers, it's
really important.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, now you also.
You have a love for religiousstudies, so I was really curious
to find out how that happenedand the journey that you took
there.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I think I've always been really curious about people
and what shapes how we think,what shapes what we believe,
those kinds of things.
And it just so happened atschool that RE religious
education was one of myfavourite lessons and I was
interested in it.
And so, as I was sort ofworking through school and you
(14:11):
get to choose what you'd like todo for your GCSEs and then you
get to choose what you like todo for your A-levels, that was
always a subject that I reallyenjoyed being nosy about
cultures, traditions and thenunderstanding what shaped them.
Nosy about cultures, traditionsand and then understanding what
shaped them.
So I decided that I wanted tostudy that at university and I
(14:32):
wanted to teach it because it'sas I had a passion for it.
But a lot of young people don'thave an interest in it.
They see it as boring, they seeit maybe as being forced to
become religious, and it's notabout that.
It's not about following areligious route.
It's about looking at religionsfrom a sort of sociological
perspective or a philosophicalperspective, um.
(14:56):
So I studied it for my degreeand I was really fortunate to,
whilst I was studying, to beable to go to india, um in in my
second year and to be able togo to India in my second year
and to be able to travel andstudy out there, and that gave
me a real thirst for more.
I just loved my time in India.
It was amazing and to be ableto experience the Indian culture
(15:17):
and India opened my eyes to somany things, because there isn't
just one particular religion um, that's grown there over time.
There's there's a lot ofdifferent religions and
traditions and how that hasshaped Indian life and society
was just fascinating to me.
It was like nothing I'dexperienced at the time before.
So yeah, that that led me to toteach religious studies for a
(15:43):
few years.
But that interest I think theinterest in people and cultures
and the opportunity to travelhas influenced where I took that
later in life.
But it's also meant that I havea real keen interest in people
and I still have that interest.
(16:03):
I'm a bit nosy.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I like to know about the people and I still have that
interest.
I'm a bit nosy.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I like to know know about the people that I meet and
build relationships, and then,sure, and what in what I'm doing
now, that really helps me, lookat how I can help them, if I
can help them, or, um, how wecan work together.
So it's been really interestingto do that.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
What was it like to actually live in Asia for you?
I mean, that would have beensuch a different culture, and to
be able to just pick up and gothere and live in a different
culture.
What was that like?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I think I know for a fact my family think thought I
was absolutely crazy to evenconsider living in a different
country, and it was somethingI'd really wanted to do After
I'd graduated.
I had applied to go out toChina and teach English with the
British Council and I'd got aplace to do it, but
unfortunately they were unableto organize my placement in time
(17:02):
, so I ended up not doing thatand I don't know, know, maybe
there was a seed in the back ofmy mind, um, that never went
away, and so it just so happened.
In 2019, I was able to go andfulfill a dream and, um, yes, it
was a a massive difference.
Um, and at first it was a bigculture shock.
(17:25):
Oh, I bet, and it was probablymy problem solving skills.
Um was so sharp by the end ofit.
Um, it taught me such a lotabout life, and not only did I
learn a lot about China and theChinese traditions.
I learned a lot about Asia.
I was able to travel indifferent countries whilst I was
(17:47):
out there, but also meetingwith other expats from all
around the world.
I have a few friends from SouthAfrica, america, canada, russia
all over the world.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I would have never had that if I hadn't done it.
So not only did I learn aboutChina, I got to learn about all
sorts of other people'straditions and languages, and it
was amazing.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Oh, that's just so beautiful.
And how did their cultureinfluence your understanding of
healing and human experience?
Your understanding of healingand human experience?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
When I went out to China just before I'd gone, I'd
had two car crashes in the UK.
Neither were my fault.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
One in 2017, someone had run into the back of my car
in 2017.
And I've always been very intomy fitness, so at the time I'd
been training hard in the gymand I just thought that the pain
that I was getting in my neckand shoulders after that was
down to training really hard,because, by coincidence, I'd
been doing back and shoulders inthe gym that morning and then
(18:55):
the pain hadn't gone away, andabout six months later I was
finally diagnosed with whiplashbut by that point it had.
I'd carried on training in thegym through it.
I was in agony, it was awful.
So I ended up withphysiotherapy and before that
had healed somebody else raninto the back of my car and so
that then made the whiplashworse really before it had even
(19:19):
had a chance to get better.
So on the NHS we have longwaiting lists in England so I'd
needed an MRI scan and I'd beenon the waiting list for that,
Eventually got an MRI scan a fewmonths before I went to China
and that had come back okay.
They'd identified it waswhiplash and there was some
(19:42):
damage to my neck, but nobodyhad really mentioned exactly
what that was.
So I'd had more physio right upto go into China and it sort of
evened out.
It was doing all right and Igot to China and the mattresses
in China are quite firm comparedto what I was used to from the
UK.
So I'd been out there a fewweeks and I lost feeling in my
(20:03):
right thumb and my right hand.
So I ended up having to use theChinese health system and I was,
I remember, going in to see thedoctor and the doctor said to
me you had, as a foreigner, Ihad to take my passport.
So I'd gone in, sat down givinghim my passport and he looked
at it and he and he sat up andhe was like I'm so sorry.
And I was like oh oh, and in myhead I'm thinking oh no, have I
(20:28):
come to the wrong place?
Can't he treat me because I'mBritish?
And he went, you, you fromEngland, and I was like yes, and
he said I'm so sorry, and I wasthinking oh, no, what what?
He said, right, and he said youhave the amazing NHS.
Our health system is not sogood.
(20:48):
And I said oh, oh, it's fine.
And in my head I was thinkingour NHS isn't so good anymore
either.
So whatever, just let's seewhere we go.
Anyway, let's say that I went inat half past eight in the
morning.
About two and a half threehours later I walked out of that
hospital having had x-rays, adiagnosis, I'd seen an
(21:11):
orthopedic consultant, I'd had aphysiotherapy session and I had
the next eight physiotherapysessions booked in all in three
hours.
Now in England that doesn'thappen.
I had to wait months for an MRI.
The waiting time to see a GP istwo or three weeks sometimes.
Quite often you don't even getto see a doctor, you see the
(21:33):
nurse practitioner.
So I was blown away by theirhealthcare system.
And then after that, as I livedin China longer and got to
grips with how things work and Imade Chinese friends and some
of them said to me oh, you needto have you considered going to
see the bone setter.
(21:53):
Well, the very term bone setterterrified me.
It doesn't sound like somebodywho was going to help me, but
off I went to see the bonesetter and he was amazing and
basically it's sort of thetraditional Chinese version of a
chiropractor.
But, he was able to really bringrelief to my back chiropractor,
(22:18):
so he was able to really bringrelief to my back um, and then I
discovered acupuncture anddifferent herbal treatments and
I started to understand how thechinese um view energy and the
meridians within the body.
Um, and I started to seesimilarities because at the same
time I was practicing yoga outthere and I practiced two types
of yoga.
I did hot yoga with a Chinesestudio and I did hatha yoga with
(22:41):
an Indian instructor.
So it was really interestingbecause I was getting the
understanding from traditionalChinese medicine about meridians
and energy flow and I knew thatthat linked with tai chi.
And then I was getting theknowledge of hatha yoga and how
that works with nadis, which isthe indian energy channels
(23:04):
that's referred to in yoga andayurveda, and I could see the
similarities between the two andit started to come to life for
me.
I started to see energy ratherthan just the physical body, so
that it was fascinating this is.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
This is very fascinating to me just to even
listen to it.
I mean, it would just beamazing to, because, you know,
in our society we don't have allthose things integrated into
(23:45):
our everyday.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
so I mean it's really interesting to see how they do
channels and you know, pressingdifferent parts of your body in.
In ayurvedic tradition they'vegot marma points, um, and you
see, when people are meditating,often you'll see them using
different hand positions and sotouching thumb to index finger
or thumb to ring finger orthey're pressing marma points
(24:08):
and each one of those doesdifferent things within the
energy channels and just it justfascinated me.
I used to see grandparentscoming to pick the children up
from school in China and they'dbe sitting there whilst they
were waiting, sort of movingenergy in their bodies and it
was just a whole different worldto me because, as you say, in
(24:32):
the West we're not taught thatas children.
If, as an adult, you have aninterest in it, you can find out
about it, but it isn't taughtto children.
I really believe it should be.
Children connect much morenaturally with energy up to the
age of seven.
If we were to teach childrensome of the practices of using
(24:53):
their breath, working withenergy, from a really young age,
I think we'd solve a lot of themental health issues that we
have over in the West.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yeah, I really believe that as well, because
you know there's so manyunhealthy things that our kids
take in every day and you becomewho you are as an adult, as a
child.
I mean those things are thosebasic things that we take in,
and if it becomes something thatyou just did every day as a kid
, of course you would do that,and I think that that also has
(25:25):
something to do with, of course,what you just said the mental
health, but also the physicalhealth as well.
I mean a lot of them in China,in Asia.
You know they live a lot longerthan we do, and I think that
that has a lot to do with it.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
And they live a lot longer with a lot less long-term
conditions.
The diet and the exercise outthere.
It has historically been somuch better we eat a lot of
processed foods in the West beenso much better.
We eat a lot of processed foodsin the west, absolutely.
Of course they're availableover in asia, and more so now
than ever.
So whether that's somethingthat will change um time will
(26:05):
tell.
But sort of historically theyhave eaten a lot healthier diet
than than we have in the westand their approach to exercise.
Like Like in China there'smassive parks everywhere.
Even though you might be in themiddle of a huge city, you
don't have to walk far to get toanother park and as you walk on
an evening or in an afternoonthere'll be massive dance
(26:29):
classes going on Tai Chi classes, all different types of martial
arts and you'll see all thegrandmas there dancing and um
young people doing sport.
And it's just like we don'thave that in england.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
There's always complaints in the town I live in
that there's nothing for thechildren to do, and yet in china
, there they had it right andand our kids have gone to being
inside playing video games,watching TV, doing a lot of
unhealthy things, eating theprocessed foods that you said.
Really it becomes becauseeverybody's doing it and that's
(27:05):
just kind of like a cliche kindof thing, but everybody's doing
it and so it's kind of hard totake your kids from everything
else that's going on around themand try to teach them a lot of
these healthy things.
But when you're in a countrywhere everybody's doing that
kind of healthy living, then itwould be passed on from
(27:26):
generation to generation and Ilove that they are doing it from
generation to generation andthey get to do it all together
doing it from generation togeneration and they get to do it
all together Exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
And you'd see, like you'd see maybe grandma and
granddad at a dance class, andthen you'd see mom and dad with
the children, and the childrenwould be there riding bikes and
on their scooters flying kites,whatever they were doing.
And I know like in my job in theUK I work in a gym alongside
what I do with your VitalityCoaching, and a lot of the
clients that I see will bemiddle-aged through to elderly
(28:01):
who have been sedentary foryears and a lot of the issues
they're experiencing health-wisenow are a direct result of that
.
And a lot of them say, oh, Idon't think the gym's for me, I
don't for me, I don't think Iwant to come to the gym.
And then they get there andthey realize what the
environment is and how it worksand they say they wish they'd
(28:22):
done it years ago, whereas inChina it's just a natural part.
The grandchildren see thegrandparents dancing or doing
Tai Chi, mum and dad might gooff for a swim or a run and it's
just normal.
Everybody's active and theylive in big cities, but it's
still normal that work-lifebalance is much better out there
as well, I think.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, our balance is really off here.
The work environment people arejust expected to work way more
many hours than they are to takecare of themselves or their
family or to reconnect withtheir family, so the whole
system needs changed.
When they talk about going to afour-day work week here, I
think that would really beamazing, and especially for kids
(29:04):
with school too, for them tohave less busy and more focus on
self and taking care of self.
I think that that's reallyimportant.
I think it's a beautiful thingthat you have again taken
everything that you've learnedand now you're trying to help
other people.
During one of your chapters inyour life, you helped fix a
(29:29):
failing home care service andturned it around in under five
months.
By the way, I mean, you don'tdo anything halfway.
What was that experience likefor you, and how did it help you
realize your purpose and yourmission?
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Managing the home care service for me was a hugely
immersive experience.
I had to come out of workingnationally, I had my overview of
what I thought good practicewas and I went into to manage
this home care service that hadbeen inspected by the care
quality commission, the CQC, asand it had been identified as
(30:07):
failing.
There were there were hugeconcerns, and so we'd been sort
of given targets to reach andclear plan in place of what
needed improving.
We worked very closely with thelocal authority safeguarding
service and the police.
So my first thing was to getthe staff trained up how I
(30:28):
believed they should be trained.
So within the management teamwe began with the management
team, made sure that everybodywas on the same page with their
training, and then I deliveredthe training to the staff and I
made sure that every member ofstaff went through the training
program so that at the end of iteverybody knew what was
expected and nobody could say Ididn't know that.
(30:52):
And at the same time I putmyself out out on care.
I went out with the team.
They saw me delivering care tothe standard that I'd trained
them to deliver.
So they knew that I knew what Iwas doing and I wasn't just
telling them to do it, um, Ichecked their note sheets to
make sure they were recordingnotes and if anybody wasn't, I
(31:12):
was bringing them back into theoffice to go through what was
going wrong and why and and gavethem that support.
They all had regular supervisionmeetings, um, the type of
meetings that you mentionedearlier where you sit down with
your team and talk about anytough cases or how you're
feeling.
They had very regular chance todo that, so I ensured that they
(31:33):
were all on the same page.
There was a lot of paperwork toput in place, but we got there
and CQC came back in to inspectus after about four and a half
five months and we went fromhaving serious concerns up to
being inspected as good,considered good, and the local
authority was satisfied that wewere a good service and started
(31:57):
to refer more clients to us andthe police stepped down.
Yeah, it was amazing.
And it was amazing to see thestaff grow in confidence.
They lacked confidence.
They hadn't had the propertraining.
So they were sort of doing whatthey thought was right and, in
some cases, were making poordecisions.
So they felt empowered thatthey were doing the right things
(32:18):
.
They were bringing problems tous instead of us looking for
them.
Um, I met with all the serviceusers and I made sure that they
all had a good quality care planin place that looked at what
their needs were and what theirwishes were because sometimes
those two things are differentand I involved the family in
those discussions as well sothat we were making sure
(32:42):
everybody was everybody's wisheswere covered.
Um, and I remember meeting withservice users the first time.
I'd go to each individualservice users house and people
would say we're not very happybecause this didn't happen and
that didn't happen, and we don'tlike this and we don't like
that.
And then the second or thirdvisits, a few months apart, I
(33:04):
was getting oh yeah, we reallylike such a body.
We'd like her all the time andwe like this and we like, and
they would ring us up in theoffice and and give good
feedback instead of ringing upto complain.
We were getting good feedbackand it just felt so nice.
It was tough, it was veryintense.
It taught me a lot aboutleadership, I learned a lot
about myself.
(33:24):
Sure, it was very worth it.
I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
While I was listening to you talk, the word that kept
going through my head wasleadership.
And I was like that's what aleader does you listen.
You listen to their wants andtheir needs and you really pay
attention and let them know thatthey're heard.
And that's really important.
I mean, if they don't feelheard or validated, you're not
(33:49):
going to get much back.
And the fact that then theywere coming to you and they were
telling you what their problemswere because they knew that
they would be heard, you know, Imean, I think that that's huge.
So I'm sure right then, andthere you're like, hey, I'm a
good leader.
Where you probably already knewthis before this job, that you
(34:11):
were a great leader and that youknew what your purpose was.
And that was now the nextstepping stone to where you were
going.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I think I'd always doubted myself as a leader.
I didn't.
When I was working nationally.
It was sort of based aroundproject management, if you like.
My roles were very projectbased and so I knew that I was
good at project management andorganization, but I think I
didn't see in that theleadership side of it that I was
doing as well.
(34:43):
Um, and it was there and I wasdoing it in just the same way
that I did when I managed thecare service.
But it was that managing thatcare service that really brought
home to me what leadership was.
And some of the staff thatworked for me whilst I was
running that service are stillin touch with me now, um years
later, and I consider themfriends now and they still come
(35:06):
to me every now and then, someof them with questions and like
and, and that's really nice.
I feel really privileged forthat.
But then thinking about I'verecently been thinking quite a
bit about leadership and Istarted to think about, when I
moved over to the deputy headrole, the primary years program
coordinator role that I had inChina, and again I look at how I
(35:29):
turned that team around becauseagain when I got there, they'd
been without a coordinator forsome time.
Staff morale was low.
They felt like they weren'tsupported and again it was
putting that support in place.
But whilst I was doing that job, I was also teaching a class
full time, so they could seethat what I was asking them to
(35:50):
do I was doing.
So they couldn't say to me, Idon't have time for this and I
don't have time for that,because I was doing it.
And not only was I doing it, Iwas managing them.
So again we had a really strongteam by the end of it, and I
just remember a conversationwith one member of staff and she
had skipped two grade teammeetings and I was coordinating
(36:13):
the grade team meetings and Iwas coordinating the grade team
meetings and I used to do ameeting with each grade.
She hadn't been to two.
So I bumped into her on thestaircase one morning before
school and I said oh, you didn'tmake it to our meeting the
other day.
I was really disappointed.
I hoped you'd be there.
I take it you had somethingreally important to do.
So she sort of doubled back andshe said oh yeah, I was
(36:35):
preparing a display for the kids.
Kids work in the classroom and Iwas like, oh, that's really
important.
I'm glad you were doing thatnext week.
Please can you find a differenttime to do that and please
could you make sure you come tothe grade meeting, because we'd
really value your input and it'svery important that you're
there.
Left it at that off, I went,and the following week she came
to the meeting and from there onin she was an integral member
(36:57):
of that team and she was.
Her work was already amazing,but she was a brilliant member
of staff.
And then we had a night out afew months after and she took me
to one side and she said misszoe, you absolutely busted my
that day.
And she said I totally respect.
And I was like she said it wasjust the way that you did it
yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Yeah, you did it in a very respectful way.
You let her know that she wasimportant and you just wanted
her to be a part, because shehad a lot to offer and you
really wanted to hear herthoughts.
And also another part of theleadership thing that I'm
hearing when you're talking isthat you know you were hands-on
and you led by example.
(37:39):
You know you weren't justtalking and telling people this
is what you need to do, and thenyou were gone, you disappeared.
You were out there in the field.
You were doing the things thatyou were asking them to do, and
so they knew, for one thing,that you were experienced and
you did know how to do it, butalso that you were invested and
(37:59):
you really meant what you weresaying yeah, and I and I did
used to check on them.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Um, I didn't tell them that I was checking on them
, but I was just constantlyaround and about, sure, and I
was checking on them.
But, um, I knew what was goingon in my team and I think you
really have to do that as aleader, because if you don, I
knew what was going on in myteam and I think you really have
to do that as a leader, becauseif you don't know what's going
on, that's when standards dropand things start to change.
People cut corners because, ashuman beings, we're always
(38:26):
looking for the easy options,we're always looking for the
easier route and, um, and if noone's reminding us that that
route is there for a reason, andif you're not following it,
you're cutting corners andcertain elements of it are
dropping away, then, yeah, itjust stops the service standards
dropping.
I think.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Well, I think that you demonstrate great leadership
skills, so I hope you neverdoubt yourself as a leader again
, because you are definitelygreat at it.
I want to ask you a questionbecause while you were, I
believe, in Asia, did COVID hitwhen you were over there and it
(39:07):
shifted for us here, but I can'timagine what it did for you
there.
I know my entire life changedafter that.
So how did it change your lifeand did the pandemic play a role
in reshaping your path oraccelerating your pivot toward
holistic healing?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
It was a crazy time for all ofus, all around the world, and
the way that it happened.
Nothing like that had everhappened in any of our lifetimes
before not on a global scalelike that and the way that it
unfolded.
Obviously, I was living inChina at the time and it started
(39:48):
in China and what I really.
There were so many things Ilearned and so many things that
I saw, and so it started inChina, and, being a foreigner in
China at the time, I couldn'tunderstand fully from Chinese
media how it was being presentedand what was going on, so I was
relying on translations andfrom expat news out there.
(40:13):
I knew enough to get the gistof what was happening and we had
.
Almost immediately, we werewearing masks and things started
to change.
However, it was coming uptowards Chinese New Year, when
the first few cases had brokenout, but at that point no one
really knew what was unfolding,so they still allowed everyone
(40:35):
to travel at Chinese New Year,which we all did.
I went to Cambodia and I had acouple of weeks in Cambodia, and
as I was out there, I was thenable to look at the English
speaking news around the worldand I started to realize what
was unfolding and then I startedto think am I going to get back
(40:55):
into China, Because theystarted talking about shutting
borders and things like that?
Anyway, I did get back intoChina, literally just before
they shut the border, and fromthat moment we were into
lockdown.
Now, lockdown out there was abit different to what I
understand lockdown over herehad been, but at that point the
(41:18):
UK wasn't locked down, so weweren't encouraged to go out.
We could go out on our own, andif you lived in a household
where there was more than oneperson, then only one person
could go out, either at a timeor per day.
I can't remember now.
I know it was one at a time.
I can't remember whether it wasone per day, but I lived on my
(41:40):
own so I could go out once everyday.
We could still go to thesupermarket.
A lot of the smaller shops andservices were closed.
Gyms and things like that wereclosed.
The school that I worked in wasclosed.
So, yeah, we and we very quicklywent to online teaching in my
school and I think I was thefirst teacher for our
organization to go online andthat was interesting.
Everything in China was readyto go pretty quick.
They've got the technology inplace.
(42:01):
I think they plan morecarefully for stuff like this
because they'd obviously hadSARS out there previously, so
they were ready to go quitequick and we were out of that
tight lockdown by the end ofMarch.
Because on my phone the otherday it pops up with memories on
my photos and it popped up withme and two friends at a
(42:22):
restaurant in China in 2020 atthis particular time and I
thought, oh, and then I thoughtto myself, gosh, actually we
were out of lockdown prettyquick in China and then
gradually opened up a bit moreand I think by April we were
allowed to come and go.
By June, gyms and stuff wereback open and by June we were
(42:44):
back into school.
Everyone was still wearingmasks, but we were up and
running and then I didn'texperience lockdown again.
However, during that month whenwe were locked down, it really
gave me a lot of time and space.
We were still teaching online,but not as many hours a week as
we would have been when we werein school.
So there was loads of time eachday for me to exercise, to go
(43:09):
out for a walk, to meditate, toread, and it was whilst I was
doing that that I firstdiscovered Dolores Cannon and
the quantum healing hypnosistechnique, and that was
fascinating and it really openedmy eyes to a whole new world
and I discovered in more.
(43:29):
I was doing yoga out there, soI was reading a lot more about
Chinese medicine and Ayurvedaand energy, and so it did that.
That time was probably arefocus of my mind for when I
left China and I stayed in Chinauntil June 2021.
(43:52):
Stayed in China until June 2021.
So, right through Covid and as Icame back to England in June 21
, things in England werestarting to reopen and they were
coming out of lockdown andthings were starting to get back
to normal.
So that was a real opportunityfor me.
I didn't stay in China becausethey were mandating the Covid
vaccine and I didn't want tohave it.
(44:14):
I knew it hadn't had longenough to have been tested and I
didn't want to put chemicals inmy body that I wasn't, that I
didn't have faith in and Ididn't have faith in it.
It was a kind of an intuitivething at the time, but it's a
bit deeper than that now and Icame back to England and so it
was an opportunity again toreinvent myself again because
(44:34):
I'd come back to England, and soit was an opportunity again to
reinvent myself again, becauseI'd come back to England with no
job, no plans, and so that wassort of then when I started to
really work on.
I'd started to train to become aQHHT practitioner whilst I was
in China, and I was able tofinish that training and one
thing led to another, and thedeeper you delve, the more
(44:56):
things present themselves, andso your vitality coaching was
launched in September 2021 andit's continued to evolve as time
has gone on.
So, yeah, it really did set meon a new path, and for me, I
guess, it was a bit differentbecause I was out there on my
own, living on my own.
I didn't have anyone out thereto be thinking about.
(45:17):
In terms of family, I had a lotof close friends and we
supported each other throughlockdown and what was going on,
but it was a little bitdifferent to if I would have
been at home and had familyclose by, and so, yeah, it did
shape the way forward.
It was a challenging time foreverybody, I think.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yeah, it stopped life as we knew it for sure.
It did.
Now let's talk more about yourhealing journey, especially your
shifts that you did, I mean,with yoga, and also you seem to
steer towards natural remedies,as you said earlier.
(45:58):
You know you didn't want totake the traditional routes and
the medicines and things likethat.
What role did they play withbreath, work, mindfulness,
gratitude and connecting withnature, and how did all that
play out in your personalrecovery?
Speaker 2 (46:16):
so these things have become my toolkit for coping
with life.
Um, and they all work, butdifferent, different tools at
different times.
I've found um.
So when the pace of modern lifebecomes overwhelming which it
frequently does, you know we'veall got responsibilities,
commitments, um, and and they'reoften very demanding time
(46:42):
scales are short, um, it canbecome really overwhelming for a
lot of us and, um, thingsalways happen at once.
So these are the tools that Iuse to sort of help me ground
myself and clear and focus mymind and then be able to
continue with coping with life.
The breath work I find reallyhelps me to come back to the
moment you can be really focusedon oh my God, I've got this to
(47:05):
do, I've got that to do.
This needs doing first, becausesometimes we can't cut to that.
So that helps me when I'mfeeling stressed or overwhelmed.
(47:29):
Every day I practice gratitudebecause there's always something
to be grateful for.
It doesn't matter what's goingon in life, there's always
something to be grateful forabsolutely and it's powerful,
isn't it practicing gratitude?
it really is powerful it reallyis.
Yeah, it shifts your mindsetcompletely yeah, and it's such a
(47:52):
small thing it really is twominutes of your time to just go
hang on a minute.
What am I grateful for today?
And and it can, just like that,flick your mind back into the
positive.
I use essential oils now as adaily, daily part of my life,
for different things.
I don't.
I use lemon oil sometimes whenI'm cleaning the house.
(48:13):
If I burn myself, I'm a bitclumsy, so I'm often burning
myself on either the iron or theoven, and peppermint oil is
great for that on lavender.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
You know, oh, talk about lavender.
We use it in the bath often andI have kids three kids with
autism, and they can beabsolutely crazy and I'm like,
well, it's time to get a bathand honestly, it really does
help.
I mean, as soon as I smell it,I feel that calm.
(48:45):
So I mean, that's, it reallyworks, it does doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (48:50):
It's so powerful?
And again, it's nature it does,doesn't it?
(49:14):
It's so powerful?
And again, it's nature.
We were given these things bythe universe to use everything
that we need We've got.
We don't need all thesepharmaceutical drugs and potions
and lotions.
Yeah, okay, they help sometimes, but do we really want to
commit ourselves to 20 years oncertain medication when actually
, if we bother to take the timeand understand it, we've got
herbs, plants, oils that canserve us better and yeah,
lavender is an amazingrelaxation um tool and so many
others.
My essential oil collection hasgone from about six oils to
about 56 now.
It's been an expensive fewyears, wow, okay, I do use them
(49:35):
in my work as well, with myReiki clients and um, and they
are really powerful.
Frankincense is amazing.
It's called the power oilbecause it magnifies the power
of whatever oil you you blend itwith just so many.
So I use oils for differentthings all the time and they're
sort of my medicine cabinet now,if you like, along with some
(49:56):
herbs and spices that are sopowerful.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
I love using thinking outside of the box and not just
going to a prescriptionmedication, you know, instead of
being able to do some of theseother things to help calm I mean
, nature is one of my biggesthealers when you talk about
nature, and I spent a lot oftime in the woods as a kid and
(50:25):
in a tree, but you know, I lovedclimbing the trees and still
today, when I go into the woodsor even to a beach and I just
soak up the wind and the waves,I really feel an instant calm
and some of these things thatyou're doing, you know how does
it help deepen our ownself-awareness and create real
(50:48):
change in our confidence,motivation and help us feel that
emotional balance that we'reall looking for.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
I think it gives a point of focus.
Sometimes, and if we can,sometimes all we need is a
single point of focus and thatcan put us into a calm state.
If we can get ourselves into adeep state of relaxation, that's
when the body can heal itself.
And there's there's lots ofdifferent ways of doing that, um
(51:19):
, but they all require makingthe time to do it.
And when life's busy, that'salways the first thing that goes
, and I'm guilty of that.
When I'm, when my life is busy,my yoga practice on an evening
probably won't happen, and Idon't meditate as often, and
they are the they're the timeswhen I need to be doing that
(51:40):
more than ever.
Um and like I was listening toyou saying about the sounds of
the sea and I um, over the lastsort of year, 18 months, I've
discovered sound therapy and oneof my favorite instruments that
I've got is my ocean drum andit just sounds.
When you're playing it justsounds like the ocean and I
always start my sound therapysessions with the ocean drum
(52:03):
because it does bring you backdown back into your body, back
to nature, and it's got thatcalming, grounding effect my son
, my one son who's autistic.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
He's eight and he started to play pan the pan drum
and you know he it has thatsame really calming sound and it
really does that for him andI'm so proud of him for wanting
to go and grab it and play it,because it's actually a tool
(52:39):
that he uses yeah, and then it'sgiving him that point.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
He's focusing on playing, he's focusing on the
sound and the music yeah, andit's clearing his mind of
whatever was causing anxiety,overwhelm what, whatever he was
feeling.
Yeah, it's amazing, and all ofmy sound instruments are set to
the frequency of 432 hertz,which is the healing frequency.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
You know, I've heard that, I've heard megahertz
really make a difference and Ididn't even know about this.
But recently somebody had saidthat to me.
So I started looking updifferent frequencies and I'm
like, oh my gosh, I mean, thisis like a real thing yeah,
absolutely 70% of our body iswater.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Sound travels through water faster than it travels
through air.
So when you're, when you'relistening to sound, or when
sound is around your body andit's vibrating through your body
and it resonates with differentparts of the body at different
frequencies.
So, and those differentfrequencies do different things
(53:42):
for our bodies because, if youthink about it, our cells are
largely made up of water throughplasma, and so if, if our cells
are at dis-ease, if they're notwell, then they're not
vibrating at the frequency theyshould, so the sound frequencies
can help bring them back to thecorrect frequency.
(54:03):
It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
That is just so interesting to me.
We have so many things that areavailable for us, that are just
right there in front of us, andwe don't even really realize.
It's just so beautiful.
You know, I've reinventedmyself many, many times and I
(54:26):
really believe in constantlyevolving.
You are the poster person forreinventing yourself.
I think, um, and I think wehave to give ourselves
permission many times in orderto do that.
What have you learned abouttransformation and what gives
you the courage to keep evolvinginto new, into new versions of
(54:50):
yourself?
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Yeah, I have transformed many times, not
intentionally, but I think it'spart of life's journey and I
think George Adair's quotefamous quote is everything that
you want is on the other side offear, and my boss translated
that to and he uses it in hisfitness classes sometimes to
(55:13):
motivate people and he'll say um, the magic happens on the other
side of the stuff that youdon't want to do.
Well, actually, both of both ofthose are absolutely spot on,
because the stuff that we finddifficult, the stuff we're
scared of, the stuff that wedon't want to do, we have to
overcome that in order to move,in order to transform and
(55:36):
develop.
And when I think back, likemoving from England to China, I
remember I packed my house up, Igave most of my belongings away
, or I sold them and I headedoff to China with two suitcases
and no real plan.
I knew that I wanted to livethere, I knew I wanted to work
and I headed off to China withtwo suitcases and no real plan.
I knew that I wanted to livethere, I knew I wanted to work
(55:57):
and I knew I wanted to travel.
That was my plan.
I had no idea how long I wasgoing for um, if I would have
known that Covid was going tobreak out, I think I'd have gone
five years sooner.
But anyway, what was that scary?
Yes, but I didn't focus on thefear.
I focused on what I reallywanted to achieve, and if I
(56:19):
would have been frozen in thefear, I would have never done it
.
So we have to put that fear outof the way, accept it,
acknowledge it.
But we still have to keep going, don't we?
We?
Otherwise we remain stuck, andthat is a choice.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
That's something else it is a choice it's a choice.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
None of us are rooted to the spot.
We've all got choice.
That choice might not be niceand it might not be a welcome
choice, and yeah, and soevolving and I don't think a lot
of us realize or feel see thatchoice.
Speaker 1 (56:54):
We don't.
You know, a lot of peoplereally don't see themselves
being able to go through thefear, get to the other side,
because success or whatever youreally want is really on the
other side and fear is a lie.
You know most of the thingsthat are standing in between us
and whatever we want to achieveisn't really even going to
(57:16):
happen.
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne, and today's guesthas lived a life full of
powerful pivots and purpose.
Zoe Smith's story is one ofreinvention from classroom to
government halls to deep healingand now into a life that helps
(00:20):
others heal too.
Helps others heal too.
Born in Yorkshire, uk, whereshe currently lives, zoe has
traveled across the world andthrough some truly
transformative chapters.
She started out as a religiousteacher, then moved into adult
social care, rising quickly tohelp shape national policies,
(00:42):
including the UK's Caring forOur Future white paper aimed at
reforming the entire care system.
She later took on a major rolewith NHS England, which is
national health services forthose of us who don't know
focused on mental health policy.
But after years ofhigh-pressure work, zoe did
(01:04):
something rare she pressed pause.
She walked away from the systemto reconnect with herself, and
that's where everything changed.
Through walking, yoga,meditation and counseling, zoe
began her own healing journey.
And it didn't stop there.
She became a mental capacityadvocate, helped rescue a
(01:25):
failing home care service andthen fully stepped into the
world of wellness.
She spent two years living andteaching in China, traveled
across Southeast Asia and fellin love with traditional healing
practices along the way Now asthe founder of your Vitality
Coaching.
Zoe brings together everythingshe's learned, offering a blend
(01:48):
of yoga, reiki, sound therapy,qhht, personal training,
hypnotherapy and life coachingto help people heal and thrive
mind, body and soul.
Zoe, welcome to the podcast.
We are so thrilled to have youhere to dive into your
incredible story.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, this is a first for us.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
We've never had someone from the UK.
Our systems and policies arevery different here, but there
is one thing in common acrossthe globe and that is mind, body
and soul transformation.
You know there were many thingsthat shaped you to become the
master, teacher and coach thatyou are today, but you've worked
(02:34):
in government, studied religionand now run your vitality
coaching.
From your time working in adultsocial care, what did you learn
about the challenges in thesystem and how has that shaped
the way you see healing andwellbeing today?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I think when I was working in workforce development
for adult social care, that wasmy role in local government.
And when I moved into anational role, and I think at
that time I had a really goodoverview of what good practice
looked like in that sector and Ithink I was quite up to date on
(03:13):
all of the best practices bothin England and some of the other
countries around the world.
We were able to, for example,look at Christchurch in New
Zealand.
After the earthquake,christchurch did an extensive
remodel of their health andsocial care system and they were
able to really integrate it.
So it was amazing to see thingslike that.
And then when I dropped down toa grassroots level, I very
(03:36):
quickly realised that everythingthat I'd seen at a national
level that was considered goodpractice although there were
pockets of that, it was actuallyquite dependent upon postcode
as to where that good practicewas available.
It wasn't available right acrossthe national offering.
So I think I had a veryaspirational and optimistic view
(03:59):
of what could be achieved fromthe sector to support people's
health and wellbeing.
And then, as I started to workon the frontline, I realised
that actually in a lot of casesthat wasn't happening.
It was hugely dependent onfunding and different areas of
the country, and then, over time, as funding has dwindled and
(04:21):
the economic situation haschanged, that decline has just
got worse.
So, more than ever now, peopleare turning towards alternative
options.
In the past, I think peopleweren't aware of alternatives so
much, and I think now, becausethey're so desperate to improve
the health and so frustrated atwaiting times and availability,
(04:46):
they are much more open totrying different approaches, and
so that's been interesting and,I suppose, for myself.
I was able to use differentapproaches at different points
in my life and they've alwaysworked for me, and so I've been
able to share that and bringthat understanding to the people
that I'm working with in yourvitality coaching.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I think it's amazing.
Your knowledge is so vast, andyou have really taken everything
along the way and just taken itwith you on this journey.
I think that that is sobeautiful.
I think that that is sobeautiful.
One of the things that happenedto you, though, is that you
spent a time like a lot of us dowhere you were just working in
(05:32):
the corporate world.
You were working up to 70 hoursa week.
I mean, what was going on withyou back then?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I am quite an ambitious and determined person,
I would say, and sometimes,when channeled in the right
direction, that can be amazing.
And other times I think,especially when I was younger I
couldn't find the off switch.
I didn't think about myself, Ididn't think about my own
personal needs and self-care,and I was just so focused on
(06:06):
achieving what I wanted to outof my career and making sure
that the projects that I wasmanaging were achieving their
goals.
And, of course, whenever you'remanaging a project in the
corporate world, there's alwaysdeadlines to meet, and they're
never they're always tightdeadlines, you know, you don't
have the luxury of hangingaround.
So I think I got really caughtup in that and there have been
(06:29):
cycles where that's repeateditself in my life.
So when I was working back incorporate, that was the case.
I was working a lot of hours aweek, and then, of course, you
learn from it, you move on, youthink, right, I'm not going to
do that again.
And then suddenly you findyourself doing it again.
So when I came back intoteaching much more recently,
(06:50):
only in the last few years whenI came back into teaching in the
UK, when I came back to the UKthere, I found myself again
working 70 hours a week oh, wow,okay teaching.
However, when you've done itonce and you know it doesn't
work, you you're much more ableto step up and hang on a minute
self-care.
Where have my boundaries gone?
This, this isn't working, andum, and I was able to step out
(07:13):
of that again.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
It teaches you lessons, for sure, um, but only
if you listen to them yeah, Imean you have to listen to your
body and your soul and your mindand everything that encompasses
us and figure out what worksfor us.
And when you were at the heightof your career, you know you
made a bold choice and taking afive month pause and that's a
(07:37):
lesson for all of us, I think toknow that it's OK to take care
of ourselves.
What did you learn aboutyourself during that time of
pause?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
It was a really interesting time in my life
actually, and it shaped who verymuch, who I am today, reshaped
the direction that life went.
I ended up.
I used to work from home a fewdays a week when I was in that
job, and I remember one dayfinding myself sitting
underneath my desk crying andsuddenly thought to myself hang
(08:11):
on a minute.
You're sitting under your deskand you're crying, there's
something not right.
Zoe and I crawled out fromunder the desk and Googled
symptoms of depression and as Ilooked down the list I could
tick pretty much all of them.
So that was sort of whatkickstarted it, because I wasn't
listening to my body fully andI wasn't listening to what was
(08:35):
going on.
And so my body went right,you're going to stop.
And the universe made me stop.
So I did so.
It was an, an enforced stop,and then I was able to take a
step back.
Um, I had counseling and I wasadamant that I didn't want to go
on to antidepressants.
Um, I wanted to find other ways.
(08:56):
So even back then, I reallywanted that self understanding
and the ability to work throughthings, and it was through
through doing that, um, throughthe counselling, I was able to
understand what was going onwith me and at the time I
thought it was a job that I wasin, that just I wasn't happy in
(09:19):
my job, wasn't happy in the team.
Um, I blamed that.
But actually through thecounselling, as I dug a lot
deeper, I uncovered all sortsthings going back to childhood,
all sorts of different things,and when I unpicked it all I
realised that actually not onlywas I not happy in my job at the
time, I wasn't happy in mymarriage and various other
(09:43):
aspects of life.
So the counselling helped mework through all of that and
understand myself on differentlevels that I'd never considered
before.
It's allowed me to free myselfof a lot of the ideas that I had
about myself and to actuallysift through and think about who
(10:03):
I am, and to actually siftthrough and think about who I am
.
But also, alongside that, I wasable to get back to nature and
get out walking every daybecause I'd taken time out of
work so I was able to get out,go walking.
I discovered meditation.
I had discovered yoga quite afew years before, but I didn't
(10:26):
have a regular yoga practice.
It was just something I knewabout and sort of dipped in and
out of every now and then.
But whilst I was off withdepression, I was really able to
explore yoga and I discoveredAshtanga yoga at the time and I
got really into it and I reallyfound that the combination of
the yoga, the meditation,getting out in nature and
(10:49):
walking really helped me throughthe period of depression and
anxiety I was facing.
So I was able to come throughthat and through that whole
process.
That was when I decided actuallyI don't want to be working at a
national level anymore.
I think I felt like I'd learnedand done as much as I wanted to
(11:14):
at that level and I wanted tomove much more into a grassroots
, local kind of level where Iwas actually working with people
and making a difference, and sothat's what I did.
I went back to work.
I retrained as an independentmental capacity advocate, which
in England is someone who workswith people who have been
assessed as lacking mentalcapacity and we help them to
(11:37):
make decisions about health careand where they're living and
those kind of things.
And for people who are in care,who don't have family or whose
family can't visit, then we'reable to go in and check on them,
make sure all their needs arebeing met and that they're being
cared for well, and I reallyenjoyed that role.
(11:57):
It was really nice to be ableto give back and do something
for people.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, I would think that that was a real blessing,
because I've always found whenyou are in roles like that, you
actually get back more.
You do.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, and again, it makes you because you're giving.
It makes you focus on theenergy exchange.
So if you're giving too much ofyourself, you can't do it for
long, so you burn yourself out.
You can't pour from that emptycup.
So it really makes youconstantly aware of what you're
(12:37):
doing and making sure thatyou're looking after yourself as
well.
It really reinforced boundariesfor me.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
You know, that's really important because I've
worked in fields where I was adirector of a battered woman's
shelter and things like that,and it's always really important
to check back with yourself andwe used to have like meetings
at the end of our shifts andjust asking each other you know
how are you, and things likethat, because that was really
important to be able to leavethe job where we needed to leave
(13:09):
it and be okay internallybefore we ended up leaving to go
home, to our families orwhatever, because some of those
things don't leave you and ifyou just continue to have that
build up and build up and younot process it and work through
it, it can really become aproblem.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yes, absolutely yeah.
Having that support in placefor each other as workers, it's
really important.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, now you also.
You have a love for religiousstudies, so I was really curious
to find out how that happenedand the journey that you took
there.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I think I've always been really curious about people
and what shapes how we think,what shapes what we believe,
those kinds of things.
And it just so happened atschool that RE religious
education was one of myfavourite lessons and I was
interested in it.
And so, as I was sort ofworking through school and you
(14:11):
get to choose what you'd like todo for your GCSEs and then you
get to choose what you like todo for your A-levels, that was
always a subject that I reallyenjoyed being nosy about
cultures, traditions and thenunderstanding what shaped them.
Nosy about cultures, traditionsand and then understanding what
shaped them.
So I decided that I wanted tostudy that at university and I
(14:32):
wanted to teach it because it'sas I had a passion for it.
But a lot of young people don'thave an interest in it.
They see it as boring, they seeit maybe as being forced to
become religious, and it's notabout that.
It's not about following areligious route.
It's about looking at religionsfrom a sort of sociological
perspective or a philosophicalperspective, um.
(14:56):
So I studied it for my degreeand I was really fortunate to,
whilst I was studying, to beable to go to india, um in in my
second year and to be able togo to India in my second year
and to be able to travel andstudy out there, and that gave
me a real thirst for more.
I just loved my time in India.
It was amazing and to be ableto experience the Indian culture
(15:17):
and India opened my eyes to somany things, because there isn't
just one particular religion um, that's grown there over time.
There's there's a lot ofdifferent religions and
traditions and how that hasshaped Indian life and society
was just fascinating to me.
It was like nothing I'dexperienced at the time before.
So yeah, that that led me to toteach religious studies for a
(15:43):
few years.
But that interest I think theinterest in people and cultures
and the opportunity to travelhas influenced where I took that
later in life.
But it's also meant that I havea real keen interest in people
and I still have that interest.
(16:03):
I'm a bit nosy.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I like to know about the people and I still have that
interest.
I'm a bit nosy.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I like to know know about the people that I meet and
build relationships, and then,sure, and what in what I'm doing
now, that really helps me, lookat how I can help them, if I
can help them, or, um, how wecan work together.
So it's been really interestingto do that.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
What was it like to actually live in Asia for you?
I mean, that would have beensuch a different culture, and to
be able to just pick up and gothere and live in a different
culture.
What was that like?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I think I know for a fact my family think thought I
was absolutely crazy to evenconsider living in a different
country, and it was somethingI'd really wanted to do After
I'd graduated.
I had applied to go out toChina and teach English with the
British Council and I'd got aplace to do it, but
unfortunately they were unableto organize my placement in time
(17:02):
, so I ended up not doing thatand I don't know, know, maybe
there was a seed in the back ofmy mind, um, that never went
away, and so it just so happened.
In 2019, I was able to go andfulfill a dream and, um, yes, it
was a a massive difference.
Um, and at first it was a bigculture shock.
(17:25):
Oh, I bet, and it was probablymy problem solving skills.
Um was so sharp by the end ofit.
Um, it taught me such a lotabout life, and not only did I
learn a lot about China and theChinese traditions.
I learned a lot about Asia.
I was able to travel indifferent countries whilst I was
(17:47):
out there, but also meetingwith other expats from all
around the world.
I have a few friends from SouthAfrica, america, canada, russia
all over the world.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I would have never had that if I hadn't done it.
So not only did I learn aboutChina, I got to learn about all
sorts of other people'straditions and languages, and it
was amazing.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Oh, that's just so beautiful.
And how did their cultureinfluence your understanding of
healing and human experience?
Your understanding of healingand human experience?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
When I went out to China just before I'd gone, I'd
had two car crashes in the UK.
Neither were my fault.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
One in 2017, someone had run into the back of my car
in 2017.
And I've always been very intomy fitness, so at the time I'd
been training hard in the gymand I just thought that the pain
that I was getting in my neckand shoulders after that was
down to training really hard,because, by coincidence, I'd
been doing back and shoulders inthe gym that morning and then
(18:55):
the pain hadn't gone away, andabout six months later I was
finally diagnosed with whiplashbut by that point it had.
I'd carried on training in thegym through it.
I was in agony, it was awful.
So I ended up withphysiotherapy and before that
had healed somebody else raninto the back of my car and so
that then made the whiplashworse really before it had even
(19:19):
had a chance to get better.
So on the NHS we have longwaiting lists in England so I'd
needed an MRI scan and I'd beenon the waiting list for that,
Eventually got an MRI scan a fewmonths before I went to China
and that had come back okay.
They'd identified it waswhiplash and there was some
(19:42):
damage to my neck, but nobodyhad really mentioned exactly
what that was.
So I'd had more physio right upto go into China and it sort of
evened out.
It was doing all right and Igot to China and the mattresses
in China are quite firm comparedto what I was used to from the
UK.
So I'd been out there a fewweeks and I lost feeling in my
(20:03):
right thumb and my right hand.
So I ended up having to use theChinese health system and I was,
I remember, going in to see thedoctor and the doctor said to
me you had, as a foreigner, Ihad to take my passport.
So I'd gone in, sat down givinghim my passport and he looked
at it and he and he sat up andhe was like I'm so sorry.
And I was like oh oh, and in myhead I'm thinking oh no, have I
(20:28):
come to the wrong place?
Can't he treat me because I'mBritish?
And he went, you, you fromEngland, and I was like yes, and
he said I'm so sorry, and I wasthinking oh, no, what what?
He said, right, and he said youhave the amazing NHS.
Our health system is not sogood.
(20:48):
And I said oh, oh, it's fine.
And in my head I was thinkingour NHS isn't so good anymore
either.
So whatever, just let's seewhere we go.
Anyway, let's say that I went inat half past eight in the
morning.
About two and a half threehours later I walked out of that
hospital having had x-rays, adiagnosis, I'd seen an
(21:11):
orthopedic consultant, I'd had aphysiotherapy session and I had
the next eight physiotherapysessions booked in all in three
hours.
Now in England that doesn'thappen.
I had to wait months for an MRI.
The waiting time to see a GP istwo or three weeks sometimes.
Quite often you don't even getto see a doctor, you see the
(21:33):
nurse practitioner.
So I was blown away by theirhealthcare system.
And then after that, as I livedin China longer and got to
grips with how things work and Imade Chinese friends and some
of them said to me oh, you needto have you considered going to
see the bone setter.
(21:53):
Well, the very term bone setterterrified me.
It doesn't sound like somebodywho was going to help me, but
off I went to see the bonesetter and he was amazing and
basically it's sort of thetraditional Chinese version of a
chiropractor.
But, he was able to really bringrelief to my back chiropractor,
(22:18):
so he was able to really bringrelief to my back um, and then I
discovered acupuncture anddifferent herbal treatments and
I started to understand how thechinese um view energy and the
meridians within the body.
Um, and I started to seesimilarities because at the same
time I was practicing yoga outthere and I practiced two types
of yoga.
I did hot yoga with a Chinesestudio and I did hatha yoga with
(22:41):
an Indian instructor.
So it was really interestingbecause I was getting the
understanding from traditionalChinese medicine about meridians
and energy flow and I knew thatthat linked with tai chi.
And then I was getting theknowledge of hatha yoga and how
that works with nadis, which isthe indian energy channels
(23:04):
that's referred to in yoga andayurveda, and I could see the
similarities between the two andit started to come to life for
me.
I started to see energy ratherthan just the physical body, so
that it was fascinating this is.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
This is very fascinating to me just to even
listen to it.
I mean, it would just beamazing to, because, you know,
in our society we don't have allthose things integrated into
(23:45):
our everyday.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
so I mean it's really interesting to see how they do
channels and you know, pressingdifferent parts of your body in.
In ayurvedic tradition they'vegot marma points, um, and you
see, when people are meditating,often you'll see them using
different hand positions and sotouching thumb to index finger
or thumb to ring finger orthey're pressing marma points
(24:08):
and each one of those doesdifferent things within the
energy channels and just it justfascinated me.
I used to see grandparentscoming to pick the children up
from school in China and they'dbe sitting there whilst they
were waiting, sort of movingenergy in their bodies and it
was just a whole different worldto me because, as you say, in
(24:32):
the West we're not taught thatas children.
If, as an adult, you have aninterest in it, you can find out
about it, but it isn't taughtto children.
I really believe it should be.
Children connect much morenaturally with energy up to the
age of seven.
If we were to teach childrensome of the practices of using
(24:53):
their breath, working withenergy, from a really young age,
I think we'd solve a lot of themental health issues that we
have over in the West.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yeah, I really believe that as well, because
you know there's so manyunhealthy things that our kids
take in every day and you becomewho you are as an adult, as a
child.
I mean those things are thosebasic things that we take in,
and if it becomes something thatyou just did every day as a kid
, of course you would do that,and I think that that also has
(25:25):
something to do with, of course,what you just said the mental
health, but also the physicalhealth as well.
I mean a lot of them in China,in Asia.
You know they live a lot longerthan we do, and I think that
that has a lot to do with it.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
And they live a lot longer with a lot less long-term
conditions.
The diet and the exercise outthere.
It has historically been somuch better we eat a lot of
processed foods in the West beenso much better.
We eat a lot of processed foodsin the west, absolutely.
Of course they're availableover in asia, and more so now
than ever.
So whether that's somethingthat will change um time will
(26:05):
tell.
But sort of historically theyhave eaten a lot healthier diet
than than we have in the westand their approach to exercise.
Like Like in China there'smassive parks everywhere.
Even though you might be in themiddle of a huge city, you
don't have to walk far to get toanother park and as you walk on
an evening or in an afternoonthere'll be massive dance
(26:29):
classes going on Tai Chi classes, all different types of martial
arts and you'll see all thegrandmas there dancing and um
young people doing sport.
And it's just like we don'thave that in england.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
There's always complaints in the town I live in
that there's nothing for thechildren to do, and yet in china
, there they had it right andand our kids have gone to being
inside playing video games,watching TV, doing a lot of
unhealthy things, eating theprocessed foods that you said.
Really it becomes becauseeverybody's doing it and that's
(27:05):
just kind of like a cliche kindof thing, but everybody's doing
it and so it's kind of hard totake your kids from everything
else that's going on around themand try to teach them a lot of
these healthy things.
But when you're in a countrywhere everybody's doing that
kind of healthy living, then itwould be passed on from
(27:26):
generation to generation and Ilove that they are doing it from
generation to generation andthey get to do it all together
doing it from generation togeneration and they get to do it
all together Exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
And you'd see, like you'd see maybe grandma and
granddad at a dance class, andthen you'd see mom and dad with
the children, and the childrenwould be there riding bikes and
on their scooters flying kites,whatever they were doing.
And I know like in my job in theUK I work in a gym alongside
what I do with your VitalityCoaching, and a lot of the
clients that I see will bemiddle-aged through to elderly
(28:01):
who have been sedentary foryears and a lot of the issues
they're experiencing health-wisenow are a direct result of that
.
And a lot of them say, oh, Idon't think the gym's for me, I
don't for me, I don't think Iwant to come to the gym.
And then they get there andthey realize what the
environment is and how it worksand they say they wish they'd
(28:22):
done it years ago, whereas inChina it's just a natural part.
The grandchildren see thegrandparents dancing or doing
Tai Chi, mum and dad might gooff for a swim or a run and it's
just normal.
Everybody's active and theylive in big cities, but it's
still normal that work-lifebalance is much better out there
as well, I think.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, our balance is really off here.
The work environment people arejust expected to work way more
many hours than they are to takecare of themselves or their
family or to reconnect withtheir family, so the whole
system needs changed.
When they talk about going to afour-day work week here, I
think that would really beamazing, and especially for kids
(29:04):
with school too, for them tohave less busy and more focus on
self and taking care of self.
I think that that's reallyimportant.
I think it's a beautiful thingthat you have again taken
everything that you've learnedand now you're trying to help
other people.
During one of your chapters inyour life, you helped fix a
(29:29):
failing home care service andturned it around in under five
months.
By the way, I mean, you don'tdo anything halfway.
What was that experience likefor you, and how did it help you
realize your purpose and yourmission?
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Managing the home care service for me was a hugely
immersive experience.
I had to come out of workingnationally, I had my overview of
what I thought good practicewas and I went into to manage
this home care service that hadbeen inspected by the care
quality commission, the CQC, asand it had been identified as
(30:07):
failing.
There were there were hugeconcerns, and so we'd been sort
of given targets to reach andclear plan in place of what
needed improving.
We worked very closely with thelocal authority safeguarding
service and the police.
So my first thing was to getthe staff trained up how I
(30:28):
believed they should be trained.
So within the management teamwe began with the management
team, made sure that everybodywas on the same page with their
training, and then I deliveredthe training to the staff and I
made sure that every member ofstaff went through the training
program so that at the end of iteverybody knew what was
expected and nobody could say Ididn't know that.
(30:52):
And at the same time I putmyself out out on care.
I went out with the team.
They saw me delivering care tothe standard that I'd trained
them to deliver.
So they knew that I knew what Iwas doing and I wasn't just
telling them to do it, um, Ichecked their note sheets to
make sure they were recordingnotes and if anybody wasn't, I
(31:12):
was bringing them back into theoffice to go through what was
going wrong and why and and gavethem that support.
They all had regular supervisionmeetings, um, the type of
meetings that you mentionedearlier where you sit down with
your team and talk about anytough cases or how you're
feeling.
They had very regular chance todo that, so I ensured that they
(31:33):
were all on the same page.
There was a lot of paperwork toput in place, but we got there
and CQC came back in to inspectus after about four and a half
five months and we went fromhaving serious concerns up to
being inspected as good,considered good, and the local
authority was satisfied that wewere a good service and started
(31:57):
to refer more clients to us andthe police stepped down.
Yeah, it was amazing.
And it was amazing to see thestaff grow in confidence.
They lacked confidence.
They hadn't had the propertraining.
So they were sort of doing whatthey thought was right and, in
some cases, were making poordecisions.
So they felt empowered thatthey were doing the right things
(32:18):
.
They were bringing problems tous instead of us looking for
them.
Um, I met with all the serviceusers and I made sure that they
all had a good quality care planin place that looked at what
their needs were and what theirwishes were because sometimes
those two things are differentand I involved the family in
those discussions as well sothat we were making sure
(32:42):
everybody was everybody's wisheswere covered.
Um, and I remember meeting withservice users the first time.
I'd go to each individualservice users house and people
would say we're not very happybecause this didn't happen and
that didn't happen, and we don'tlike this and we don't like
that.
And then the second or thirdvisits, a few months apart, I
(33:04):
was getting oh yeah, we reallylike such a body.
We'd like her all the time andwe like this and we like, and
they would ring us up in theoffice and and give good
feedback instead of ringing upto complain.
We were getting good feedbackand it just felt so nice.
It was tough, it was veryintense.
It taught me a lot aboutleadership, I learned a lot
about myself.
(33:24):
Sure, it was very worth it.
I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
While I was listening to you talk, the word that kept
going through my head wasleadership.
And I was like that's what aleader does you listen.
You listen to their wants andtheir needs and you really pay
attention and let them know thatthey're heard.
And that's really important.
I mean, if they don't feelheard or validated, you're not
(33:49):
going to get much back.
And the fact that then theywere coming to you and they were
telling you what their problemswere because they knew that
they would be heard, you know, Imean, I think that that's huge.
So I'm sure right then, andthere you're like, hey, I'm a
good leader.
Where you probably already knewthis before this job, that you
(34:11):
were a great leader and that youknew what your purpose was.
And that was now the nextstepping stone to where you were
going.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I think I'd always doubted myself as a leader.
I didn't.
When I was working nationally.
It was sort of based aroundproject management, if you like.
My roles were very projectbased and so I knew that I was
good at project management andorganization, but I think I
didn't see in that theleadership side of it that I was
doing as well.
(34:43):
Um, and it was there and I wasdoing it in just the same way
that I did when I managed thecare service.
But it was that managing thatcare service that really brought
home to me what leadership was.
And some of the staff thatworked for me whilst I was
running that service are stillin touch with me now, um years
later, and I consider themfriends now and they still come
(35:06):
to me every now and then, someof them with questions and like
and, and that's really nice.
I feel really privileged forthat.
But then thinking about I'verecently been thinking quite a
bit about leadership and Istarted to think about, when I
moved over to the deputy headrole, the primary years program
coordinator role that I had inChina, and again I look at how I
(35:29):
turned that team around becauseagain when I got there, they'd
been without a coordinator forsome time.
Staff morale was low.
They felt like they weren'tsupported and again it was
putting that support in place.
But whilst I was doing that job, I was also teaching a class
full time, so they could seethat what I was asking them to
(35:50):
do I was doing.
So they couldn't say to me, Idon't have time for this and I
don't have time for that,because I was doing it.
And not only was I doing it, Iwas managing them.
So again we had a really strongteam by the end of it, and I
just remember a conversationwith one member of staff and she
had skipped two grade teammeetings and I was coordinating
(36:13):
the grade team meetings and Iwas coordinating the grade team
meetings and I used to do ameeting with each grade.
She hadn't been to two.
So I bumped into her on thestaircase one morning before
school and I said oh, you didn'tmake it to our meeting the
other day.
I was really disappointed.
I hoped you'd be there.
I take it you had somethingreally important to do.
So she sort of doubled back andshe said oh yeah, I was
(36:35):
preparing a display for the kids.
Kids work in the classroom and Iwas like, oh, that's really
important.
I'm glad you were doing thatnext week.
Please can you find a differenttime to do that and please
could you make sure you come tothe grade meeting, because we'd
really value your input and it'svery important that you're
there.
Left it at that off, I went,and the following week she came
to the meeting and from there onin she was an integral member
(36:57):
of that team and she was.
Her work was already amazing,but she was a brilliant member
of staff.
And then we had a night out afew months after and she took me
to one side and she said misszoe, you absolutely busted my
that day.
And she said I totally respect.
And I was like she said it wasjust the way that you did it
yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Yeah, you did it in a very respectful way.
You let her know that she wasimportant and you just wanted
her to be a part, because shehad a lot to offer and you
really wanted to hear herthoughts.
And also another part of theleadership thing that I'm
hearing when you're talking isthat you know you were hands-on
and you led by example.
(37:39):
You know you weren't justtalking and telling people this
is what you need to do, and thenyou were gone, you disappeared.
You were out there in the field.
You were doing the things thatyou were asking them to do, and
so they knew, for one thing,that you were experienced and
you did know how to do it, butalso that you were invested and
(37:59):
you really meant what you weresaying yeah, and I and I did
used to check on them.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Um, I didn't tell them that I was checking on them
, but I was just constantlyaround and about, sure, and I
was checking on them.
But, um, I knew what was goingon in my team and I think you
really have to do that as aleader, because if you don, I
knew what was going on in myteam and I think you really have
to do that as a leader, becauseif you don't know what's going
on, that's when standards dropand things start to change.
People cut corners because, ashuman beings, we're always
(38:26):
looking for the easy options,we're always looking for the
easier route and, um, and if noone's reminding us that that
route is there for a reason, andif you're not following it,
you're cutting corners andcertain elements of it are
dropping away, then, yeah, itjust stops the service standards
dropping.
I think.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Well, I think that you demonstrate great leadership
skills, so I hope you neverdoubt yourself as a leader again
, because you are definitelygreat at it.
I want to ask you a questionbecause while you were, I
believe, in Asia, did COVID hitwhen you were over there and it
(39:07):
shifted for us here, but I can'timagine what it did for you
there.
I know my entire life changedafter that.
So how did it change your lifeand did the pandemic play a role
in reshaping your path oraccelerating your pivot toward
holistic healing?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
It was a crazy time for all ofus, all around the world, and
the way that it happened.
Nothing like that had everhappened in any of our lifetimes
before not on a global scalelike that and the way that it
unfolded.
Obviously, I was living inChina at the time and it started
(39:48):
in China and what I really.
There were so many things Ilearned and so many things that
I saw, and so it started inChina, and, being a foreigner in
China at the time, I couldn'tunderstand fully from Chinese
media how it was being presentedand what was going on, so I was
relying on translations andfrom expat news out there.
(40:13):
I knew enough to get the gistof what was happening and we had
.
Almost immediately, we werewearing masks and things started
to change.
However, it was coming uptowards Chinese New Year, when
the first few cases had brokenout, but at that point no one
really knew what was unfolding,so they still allowed everyone
(40:35):
to travel at Chinese New Year,which we all did.
I went to Cambodia and I had acouple of weeks in Cambodia, and
as I was out there, I was thenable to look at the English
speaking news around the worldand I started to realize what
was unfolding and then I startedto think am I going to get back
(40:55):
into China, Because theystarted talking about shutting
borders and things like that?
Anyway, I did get back intoChina, literally just before
they shut the border, and fromthat moment we were into
lockdown.
Now, lockdown out there was abit different to what I
understand lockdown over herehad been, but at that point the
(41:18):
UK wasn't locked down, so weweren't encouraged to go out.
We could go out on our own, andif you lived in a household
where there was more than oneperson, then only one person
could go out, either at a timeor per day.
I can't remember now.
I know it was one at a time.
I can't remember whether it wasone per day, but I lived on my
(41:40):
own so I could go out once everyday.
We could still go to thesupermarket.
A lot of the smaller shops andservices were closed.
Gyms and things like that wereclosed.
The school that I worked in wasclosed.
So, yeah, we and we very quicklywent to online teaching in my
school and I think I was thefirst teacher for our
organization to go online andthat was interesting.
Everything in China was readyto go pretty quick.
They've got the technology inplace.
(42:01):
I think they plan morecarefully for stuff like this
because they'd obviously hadSARS out there previously, so
they were ready to go quitequick and we were out of that
tight lockdown by the end ofMarch.
Because on my phone the otherday it pops up with memories on
my photos and it popped up withme and two friends at a
(42:22):
restaurant in China in 2020 atthis particular time and I
thought, oh, and then I thoughtto myself, gosh, actually we
were out of lockdown prettyquick in China and then
gradually opened up a bit moreand I think by April we were
allowed to come and go.
By June, gyms and stuff wereback open and by June we were
(42:44):
back into school.
Everyone was still wearingmasks, but we were up and
running and then I didn'texperience lockdown again.
However, during that month whenwe were locked down, it really
gave me a lot of time and space.
We were still teaching online,but not as many hours a week as
we would have been when we werein school.
So there was loads of time eachday for me to exercise, to go
(43:09):
out for a walk, to meditate, toread, and it was whilst I was
doing that that I firstdiscovered Dolores Cannon and
the quantum healing hypnosistechnique, and that was
fascinating and it really openedmy eyes to a whole new world
and I discovered in more.
(43:29):
I was doing yoga out there, soI was reading a lot more about
Chinese medicine and Ayurvedaand energy, and so it did that.
That time was probably arefocus of my mind for when I
left China and I stayed in Chinauntil June 2021.
(43:52):
Stayed in China until June 2021.
So, right through Covid and as Icame back to England in June 21
, things in England werestarting to reopen and they were
coming out of lockdown andthings were starting to get back
to normal.
So that was a real opportunityfor me.
I didn't stay in China becausethey were mandating the Covid
vaccine and I didn't want tohave it.
(44:14):
I knew it hadn't had longenough to have been tested and I
didn't want to put chemicals inmy body that I wasn't, that I
didn't have faith in and Ididn't have faith in it.
It was a kind of an intuitivething at the time, but it's a
bit deeper than that now and Icame back to England and so it
was an opportunity again toreinvent myself again because
(44:34):
I'd come back to England, and soit was an opportunity again to
reinvent myself again, becauseI'd come back to England with no
job, no plans, and so that wassort of then when I started to
really work on.
I'd started to train to become aQHHT practitioner whilst I was
in China, and I was able tofinish that training and one
thing led to another, and thedeeper you delve, the more
(44:56):
things present themselves, andso your vitality coaching was
launched in September 2021 andit's continued to evolve as time
has gone on.
So, yeah, it really did set meon a new path, and for me, I
guess, it was a bit differentbecause I was out there on my
own, living on my own.
I didn't have anyone out thereto be thinking about.
(45:17):
In terms of family, I had a lotof close friends and we
supported each other throughlockdown and what was going on,
but it was a little bitdifferent to if I would have
been at home and had familyclose by, and so, yeah, it did
shape the way forward.
It was a challenging time foreverybody, I think.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yeah, it stopped life as we knew it for sure.
It did.
Now let's talk more about yourhealing journey, especially your
shifts that you did, I mean,with yoga, and also you seem to
steer towards natural remedies,as you said earlier.
(45:58):
You know you didn't want totake the traditional routes and
the medicines and things likethat.
What role did they play withbreath, work, mindfulness,
gratitude and connecting withnature, and how did all that
play out in your personalrecovery?
Speaker 2 (46:16):
so these things have become my toolkit for coping
with life.
Um, and they all work, butdifferent, different tools at
different times.
I've found um.
So when the pace of modern lifebecomes overwhelming which it
frequently does, you know we'veall got responsibilities,
commitments, um, and and they'reoften very demanding time
(46:42):
scales are short, um, it canbecome really overwhelming for a
lot of us and, um, thingsalways happen at once.
So these are the tools that Iuse to sort of help me ground
myself and clear and focus mymind and then be able to
continue with coping with life.
The breath work I find reallyhelps me to come back to the
moment you can be really focusedon oh my God, I've got this to
(47:05):
do, I've got that to do.
This needs doing first, becausesometimes we can't cut to that.
So that helps me when I'mfeeling stressed or overwhelmed.
(47:29):
Every day I practice gratitudebecause there's always something
to be grateful for.
It doesn't matter what's goingon in life, there's always
something to be grateful forabsolutely and it's powerful,
isn't it practicing gratitude?
it really is powerful it reallyis.
Yeah, it shifts your mindsetcompletely yeah, and it's such a
(47:52):
small thing it really is twominutes of your time to just go
hang on a minute.
What am I grateful for today?
And and it can, just like that,flick your mind back into the
positive.
I use essential oils now as adaily, daily part of my life,
for different things.
I don't.
I use lemon oil sometimes whenI'm cleaning the house.
(48:13):
If I burn myself, I'm a bitclumsy, so I'm often burning
myself on either the iron or theoven, and peppermint oil is
great for that on lavender.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
You know, oh, talk about lavender.
We use it in the bath often andI have kids three kids with
autism, and they can beabsolutely crazy and I'm like,
well, it's time to get a bathand honestly, it really does
help.
I mean, as soon as I smell it,I feel that calm.
(48:45):
So I mean, that's, it reallyworks, it does doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (48:50):
It's so powerful?
And again, it's nature it does,doesn't it?
(49:14):
It's so powerful?
And again, it's nature.
We were given these things bythe universe to use everything
that we need We've got.
We don't need all thesepharmaceutical drugs and potions
and lotions.
Yeah, okay, they help sometimes, but do we really want to
commit ourselves to 20 years oncertain medication when actually
, if we bother to take the timeand understand it, we've got
herbs, plants, oils that canserve us better and yeah,
lavender is an amazingrelaxation um tool and so many
others.
My essential oil collection hasgone from about six oils to
about 56 now.
It's been an expensive fewyears, wow, okay, I do use them
(49:35):
in my work as well, with myReiki clients and um, and they
are really powerful.
Frankincense is amazing.
It's called the power oilbecause it magnifies the power
of whatever oil you you blend itwith just so many.
So I use oils for differentthings all the time and they're
sort of my medicine cabinet now,if you like, along with some
(49:56):
herbs and spices that are sopowerful.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
I love using thinking outside of the box and not just
going to a prescriptionmedication, you know, instead of
being able to do some of theseother things to help calm I mean
, nature is one of my biggesthealers when you talk about
nature, and I spent a lot oftime in the woods as a kid and
(50:25):
in a tree, but you know, I lovedclimbing the trees and still
today, when I go into the woodsor even to a beach and I just
soak up the wind and the waves,I really feel an instant calm
and some of these things thatyou're doing, you know how does
it help deepen our ownself-awareness and create real
(50:48):
change in our confidence,motivation and help us feel that
emotional balance that we'reall looking for.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
I think it gives a point of focus.
Sometimes, and if we can,sometimes all we need is a
single point of focus and thatcan put us into a calm state.
If we can get ourselves into adeep state of relaxation, that's
when the body can heal itself.
And there's there's lots ofdifferent ways of doing that, um
(51:19):
, but they all require makingthe time to do it.
And when life's busy, that'salways the first thing that goes
, and I'm guilty of that.
When I'm, when my life is busy,my yoga practice on an evening
probably won't happen, and Idon't meditate as often, and
they are the they're the timeswhen I need to be doing that
(51:40):
more than ever.
Um and like I was listening toyou saying about the sounds of
the sea and I um, over the lastsort of year, 18 months, I've
discovered sound therapy and oneof my favorite instruments that
I've got is my ocean drum andit just sounds.
When you're playing it justsounds like the ocean and I
always start my sound therapysessions with the ocean drum
(52:03):
because it does bring you backdown back into your body, back
to nature, and it's got thatcalming, grounding effect my son
, my one son who's autistic.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
He's eight and he started to play pan the pan drum
and you know he it has thatsame really calming sound and it
really does that for him andI'm so proud of him for wanting
to go and grab it and play it,because it's actually a tool
(52:39):
that he uses yeah, and then it'sgiving him that point.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
He's focusing on playing, he's focusing on the
sound and the music yeah, andit's clearing his mind of
whatever was causing anxiety,overwhelm what, whatever he was
feeling.
Yeah, it's amazing, and all ofmy sound instruments are set to
the frequency of 432 hertz,which is the healing frequency.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
You know, I've heard that, I've heard megahertz
really make a difference and Ididn't even know about this.
But recently somebody had saidthat to me.
So I started looking updifferent frequencies and I'm
like, oh my gosh, I mean, thisis like a real thing yeah,
absolutely 70% of our body iswater.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Sound travels through water faster than it travels
through air.
So when you're, when you'relistening to sound, or when
sound is around your body andit's vibrating through your body
and it resonates with differentparts of the body at different
frequencies.
So, and those differentfrequencies do different things
(53:42):
for our bodies because, if youthink about it, our cells are
largely made up of water throughplasma, and so if, if our cells
are at dis-ease, if they're notwell, then they're not
vibrating at the frequency theyshould, so the sound frequencies
can help bring them back to thecorrect frequency.
(54:03):
It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
That is just so interesting to me.
We have so many things that areavailable for us, that are just
right there in front of us, andwe don't even really realize.
It's just so beautiful.
You know, I've reinventedmyself many, many times and I
(54:26):
really believe in constantlyevolving.
You are the poster person forreinventing yourself.
I think, um, and I think wehave to give ourselves
permission many times in orderto do that.
What have you learned abouttransformation and what gives
you the courage to keep evolvinginto new, into new versions of
(54:50):
yourself?
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Yeah, I have transformed many times, not
intentionally, but I think it'spart of life's journey and I
think George Adair's quotefamous quote is everything that
you want is on the other side offear, and my boss translated
that to and he uses it in hisfitness classes sometimes to
(55:13):
motivate people and he'll say um, the magic happens on the other
side of the stuff that youdon't want to do.
Well, actually, both of both ofthose are absolutely spot on,
because the stuff that we finddifficult, the stuff we're
scared of, the stuff that wedon't want to do, we have to
overcome that in order to move,in order to transform and
(55:36):
develop.
And when I think back, likemoving from England to China, I
remember I packed my house up, Igave most of my belongings away
, or I sold them and I headedoff to China with two suitcases
and no real plan.
I knew that I wanted to livethere, I knew I wanted to work
and I headed off to China withtwo suitcases and no real plan.
I knew that I wanted to livethere, I knew I wanted to work
(55:57):
and I knew I wanted to travel.
That was my plan.
I had no idea how long I wasgoing for um, if I would have
known that Covid was going tobreak out, I think I'd have gone
five years sooner.
But anyway, what was that scary?
Yes, but I didn't focus on thefear.
I focused on what I reallywanted to achieve, and if I
(56:19):
would have been frozen in thefear, I would have never done it
.
So we have to put that fear outof the way, accept it,
acknowledge it.
But we still have to keep going, don't we?
We?
Otherwise we remain stuck, andthat is a choice.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
That's something else it is a choice it's a choice.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
None of us are rooted to the spot.
We've all got choice.
That choice might not be niceand it might not be a welcome
choice, and yeah, and soevolving and I don't think a lot
of us realize or feel see thatchoice.
Speaker 1 (56:54):
We don't.
You know, a lot of peoplereally don't see themselves
being able to go through thefear, get to the other side,
because success or whatever youreally want is really on the
other side and fear is a lie.
You know most of the thingsthat are standing in between us
and whatever we want to achieveisn't really even going to
(57:16):
happen.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!