Hot Flashes, Cold Takes, And Why Trucker Hats Are Ageless: Aging OutLOUD with Angela Burk

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_07 (00:00):
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne, and today we'rediving into something that hits
pretty close to home for me, andhonestly, for a lot of women in
midlife.
The moment that I heard aboutyou, Angela, I knew that I just
had to have you on the show.
This stage of life, it's full ofpivots.
It's about claiming orreclaiming who we are and who we

(00:22):
want to be.
I really see it as an excitingchapter.
It's not a crisis chapter, it'snot the end chapter, it's a
comeback chapter.
And you, Angela, are leading afull-blown midlife revolution,
which I love.
You're the writer and founder ofReal Girls Guide and RGG 55 on
Substack, and you're changingthe narrative for women in their

(00:45):
40s, 50s, and beyond.
We're going to talk all the goodstuff.
I mean all of it.
Hormones, humor, identity, andwhy growing older doesn't mean
fading out.
It means turning up the volume.
So let's age out loud.
Angela, I am so glad to have youon the show.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07):
Well, I am so very glad to be here, Anne, and
really thrilled that you invitedme.
So thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_07 (01:14):
We just had National Healthy Aging Month, and the
this is Menopause AwarenessMonth.
This is the perfect time to talkabout this.
Angela, we all age.
I mean, it's inevitable.
We can't not do it.
So, what made now the right timeto launch Real Girls Guide in
RG55?
What inspired you to do this?

SPEAKER_02 (01:35):
Yeah, it's it's a really good question.
And um, the truth is that Iactually had the idea for a book
um when I was 35.
So two decades ago, and the bookwas going to be The Real Girls
Guide to Over 35.
And I had built um chapteroutlines and I had notes and I
had a lot of these big questionsthat I felt I was facing at that

(01:57):
time.
I was newly married, I had acouple kids then.
I was sort of at this pivotpoint in my one of many, but at
a pivot point in my career.
And and I didn't know it then,but even my body was changing.
Um, the appearance of my bodywas changing, the function of my
body was changing.
I was starting to enter again.
Back then I didn't have a wordfor it, but I was starting to

(02:19):
enter perimenopause and I justhad all these questions.
And so I started a folder and Ithought, I, you know what?
I'm gonna write this book.
I I've got questions.
Other women, I'm sure, havestories and examples of ways
that they've navigated throughthis.
And I think it's what I needright now.
And uh life got busy, and thefolder literally got buried, um,

(02:42):
buried under a lot of things,kind of literally literally and
figuratively.
And if I fast forward, I had thegood fortune of retiring in
December and I was cleaning upmy desk and I found a folder.
I found a folder.

SPEAKER_07 (02:56):
Yeah, it was just the perfect time.

SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
It was the perfect time, and I opened the folder
and I was like, you know, therewere so many things that were
happening to me.
So, you know, like I had my ownjourney with menopause.
It I kind of fully entered, Iguess, that, you know, let's not
have a period for 12-month phaseand all of a sudden you're in
menopause.
That happened to me at the endof my 47th year.
Yet there were still things thatwere changing for me.

(03:19):
They were, you know, I waschanging as a woman.
Um, my marital status changed.
I met a new man.
I was kind of rediscoveringmyself on a lot of different
vectors.
But again, I didn't really havea label for what was happening.
I just knew things werehappening.
So finding the folder andopening it, I was like, man,
questions are different, but thethemes were almost exactly the

(03:40):
same.
And I was like, you know what?
I need to do this now.
And so that's what I did.

SPEAKER_07 (03:44):
That's amazing.
Right on time.
And I say that all the time.
It was just supposed to happenright now.
It's really exciting that you'redoing that right now.
I think that women in generalare changing.
Do you think that women our agefeel less than?
Where does that message comefrom and how do we unlearn it?

SPEAKER_02 (04:06):
Yeah, it's a really good question.
Um, you know, I think that themessage comes from from a lot of
different sources, right?
You know, for me, I grew up umwith very strong, strong women
around me, but there werecertain roles that these women
played.
Um, so I sort of had kind of therole models in my life um that I
watched.
I think the media has a lot todo with it too, right?

(04:27):
Um, I love Diane Keaton, who, mygoodness, like God bless her,
and you know, really um such asad passing for me.
But you know, the mediatraditionally has not
necessarily uh portrayed womenof our age in a particularly
exciting and powerful way.
Um and then I think I love a lotof the stories um that I

(04:49):
probably developed when I was akid, you know, my role to not
cause waves, um, to to bepeaceful, yes, to not cause
grief, to just to shrink and toplay small, all for the sake of
keeping everything calm aroundme.
I personally let a lot of thosethings impact how I saw myself,

(05:12):
how I saw myself in in my rolein a lot of different facets of
my life.
And it wasn't like this, youknow, this depressed state, I
wouldn't say, but it just becameingrained.
And I finally started realizing,you know, kind of as I entered
50 and in my early 50s, it waslike, you know what?
I'm done.

(05:33):
I'm tired.
I am out of F's.
I don't know if we we cursehere, but I'm a cursor.
So I'm out of Fs to give, andI'm tired.
And so my voice got louder.
My voice got louder first withmyself.
You know, I don't have to umshrink, I don't have to play
small, I don't have to say sayno with an essay.

(05:54):
I don't need to to allow thestories that other people wrote
about me to be the ones I tellabout myself.
I just was a light bulb.

SPEAKER_07 (06:04):
I say this all the time.
Oh my gosh, you just defined ourpodcast.
Well, I think that we wereraised in the time when it was
sit up straight, tuck your shirtin, you have to look nice.
Appearance is more importantthan anything else.
Um, not really what's happeningin real life, it's about
appearance.
And you have to um listen and bea peacemaker.

(06:28):
And that's how I was trained.
I think that a lot of ourgeneration was trained that way,
and allowing other people todefine us.
That was who we were.
Yes, and and the same thinghappened for me, where I got to
the point where I was like, nomore, no more.
I'm gonna speak up and I'm gonnahave a voice, and I'm gonna

(06:49):
define who I am.

SPEAKER_02 (06:50):
Well, and I'm gonna define who I am, and I'm gonna
do it with zero apologies.
I don't owe the world comfort, Idon't owe the world peace, I
don't owe the world their joy.
I I I just don't.
I have to do this stuff formyself.
And I I think what was sointeresting about the book I
idea I had 20 years ago and thebook that I've I've written now

(07:14):
is the fact that it's it's not aguide, although I I do like the
the word guide.
It's really not meant to belike, you know, the blueprint,
right?
But it is a companion, it is astart to how do we reframe this
time?
And it and it kind of startswith us, right?
And I I found that that to betrue for myself.

(07:36):
It didn't start with anybodyelse sitting me down and going,
hey, you know, you're at thispoint.
I think you should kind of makesome changes.
I just got to a place and it waslike this slow burn.
It wasn't this big ignited fire.
It was a slow burn of me justlooking and stopping and going,
wait a minute, this thing ishappening to me.
Why?

(07:56):
Do I like it?
Do I not?
If I don't, I'm not gonna standfor it.
This this opportunity ispresenting itself to me.
Why am I not taking it?
Am I afraid?
What's the worst that canhappen?
You know, and and it's it itkind of evolved into so many
different facets of me as aperson in the way I parented.
I was going through thesetransitions where my kids, my

(08:17):
two of my uh between my partnerand I, we have a staggering
number of children.
We have seven.
I have three boys myself, andthey were trans, two of them are
transitioning to adults.
I was finding like I was the themy role as a parent was
changing.
And I'm like, look, I can letall these things happen to me,
or I can take control.
And I'm done letting otherpeople define who I am, how I

(08:39):
think, what I want, the thingsI'm gonna do, the things I'm not
gonna do.
That whole saying no without anessay, man, that's like
life-changing for me.
Life-changing.

SPEAKER_07 (08:50):
You know, I just love you.
You are just speakingeverything.
Uh I can tell you that I knowwomen who are in their 80s and
90s.
One is 85, and she is runningthis agency for youth, and she
is affecting so many kids everysingle day.

(09:10):
And she never misses work andshe exercises all the time.
And I know a woman who's in her90s, and she just wrote a book
about and she's her life.
She's writing a book about herlife, and she's going around
speaking.
I happen to be at Hoda Cotpe'sbirthday party in New York City
when I in it was an amazingbirthday party.

(09:32):
We had VIP tickets, we werefront, you know, right up front
and everything.
And it was, it was, it was sogood.
And she came out of turning 60saying, This is the best decade
of my life.
She left the Today Show andshe's rewriting it.
You know, I mean, these are allwomen who are living on purpose.

(09:53):
And I love that saying, can youtalk more about what it means to
live on purpose?

SPEAKER_02 (10:00):
I love that.
Um, and I frame it, um, it it'sthe very same sentiment, but
I've called it this kind ofradical midlife self-possession.
And I think where it starts,right?
When you live on purpose, youlive with intention, right?
And for me, for me, what thatmeans is I don't just let things
happen.
I'm very inquisitive, I'm verydirected.

(10:21):
And if things are, if I'mnoticing a shift, if I'm
noticing an opportunity, if I'mseeing something that I want to
do, I am very intentional.
Like, what is happening?
Why?
And is this something I want todo?
Is this something I want toexperience?
And if the answer to that isyes, then I'm gonna do it.
And I think for me, this idea ofliving on purpose is living with
intention.

(10:42):
And it's yeah, you could feelthe fear because I gotta tell
you, I spent 30 years inhigh-tech marketing writing a
book.
Um I've never done it.
Right, launching a Substack,I've never done it.
And so for me, there's a lot offear in that, but I'm feeling
the fear and doing it anyway.
And I think the this idea ofthis, you know, what I've called
this radical midlifeself-possession is for the first

(11:04):
time in my life, and I'm seeingthis through friends and women
that I've had the opportunity tomeet, we are starting to live
for ourselves.
We are starting to reclaim umand reframe the role that we
have as individuals and what wewant the next phase of our life
to look like.
And, you know, and so I thinkthat that living on purpose,

(11:25):
there's a lot of intentionbehind it, there's a lot of
self-awareness, but there's alsothis radical embracing of hey,
this phase is about me.
And it's not to be um, you know,rude and it's not to be
dismissive of of other people,but it is to put ourselves
first.
And this is a shift.

(11:46):
I mean, for me, you know, whenyou're raised as uh a woman, you
become a wife, you become a mom.
Um, for those of us who've gonedown that path, we're kind of
intrinsically like shaped tojust give to everybody.
That's what you give, you giveyou, give.
And then finally, at this, yeah,I think because I have so few
things left to give, I'm finallylooking at it and going, no, no,

(12:08):
no.
It starts here and it has tostart here.

SPEAKER_07 (12:12):
Yeah, normally we're the last people that we think
of.

SPEAKER_02 (12:14):
Totally, totally.

unknown (12:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (12:16):
So I do think that living on purpose is you know,
the the acceptance of and theembrace of ourselves.
It is this feeling, this vibe,uh, and intention of reclaiming
um either parts of ourselvesthat maybe we ignored or kind of
l let let get dusty.
I know for me, that's how I feltfor a lot of times.

(12:39):
Like a lot of the things that Iloved about myself and that I
knew made me a great person, Ikind of let go.
I I I let I left them in theshadows and and I'm done doing
that.
Yeah, so that that's kind of myview.
It's it's it's kind of beingintentional, but also being a

(12:59):
little bit self-possessive, andand that's not a bad thing.

SPEAKER_07 (13:03):
No, it's not.
And you know, and that we haveto give ourselves permission to
do that.
I mean, yes, I I am living mybest life, and I am not slowing
down at all.
I'm actually doing things thatI've always wanted to, and
that's with adopting three youngkids in my 50s.
That's what I did.

(13:24):
So I am homeschooling one ofthem right now, and he just
brings me so much joy.
I mean, I'm really happy doingthis, and I'm also running this
podcast and meeting people allover the country like you.
And I am so blessed in so manyways, and I feel like I'm just
getting started.
How can women tap into theirpassions when they are older?
How can they rebuild themselvesafter some people think they are

(13:48):
washed up?

SPEAKER_02 (13:50):
I think a lot of it, and and again, I'm I'll kind of
reframe it from my perspective,but a lot of the the how-tos, I
think, come from talking toother women.
I mean, honestly, that was oneof the premises of this book,
right?
So 30 or 20 years ago when I was35, I was really struggling
because I was having all thesefeelings and none of my friends

(14:12):
were talking about it.
Um, you know, my mom and I are19 years apart, and in some
ways, I love it.
My mom is one of my best friendsright now, and I love it.
But there were things that werehappening to her when I was in
my 30s that I just associatedwith that's old.
She's old because she's my mom.
But in reality, we were 19 yearsapart.
But I think part of it for mewas the struggle that nobody was

(14:34):
talking about it.
And so what I found that'shappening now, which I think is
so great, is that there are somany more voices talking.
And I think it starts with, hey,you've got to tune into the the
volume of act of noise around usbecause there's something to it.
I am seeing more and more, Imean, you're this podcast, um,
authors who are writing, womenon Substack, um celebrities,

(14:58):
right?
Who are writing books and we'rehaving these open conversations
about the things that arehappening to us.
Um, we're talking abouthormones, we're talking about
menopause, we're talking aboutlibido changes, we're just
having these conversations.
So I think part of it for mewas, you know, the I couldn't
ignore the noise.
And then when I had this idea,so found the folder in December,

(15:19):
in April, I was like, okay, I'mgonna do this, I'm gonna write a
book.
And so that's what I starteddoing.
And as I started talking to moreof my friends, what I found was
that created a groundswell.
And I think that where we forme, and that gave me almost it
gave me validation a little bit,and it gave me this sense of,
you know, spoiler alert, Ieverything that I was feeling,

(15:41):
it wasn't just me.
There is something to this.
And so I think it starts with,hey, what's happening in your
circle?
What's happening around you?
Listen to that.
Then it's what's happening forme?
What am I feeling right now?
Do I feel restless?
Do I feel dissatisfied?
Do I feel like I have somethingin me that I want to go do, a

(16:02):
passion that I want to go try?
Am I fearful about it?
Okay, cool.
But what's stopping me?
And then, like, okay, let's workthrough the things that are
stopping me.
And then giving us permission togo, okay, it's okay to feel the
fear, but do something.
Just start.
And for me, it was just startwriting.
And that's what I did.
Like, I didn't know, I didn'tknow any, like, I've never

(16:24):
written, you know, for my job,I've written, but I think that
that's how we work through it.
It's what's happening around us,talk to people, talk to people
around us and people that wetrust, and figure out what it is
you want to do and just begin.

SPEAKER_07 (16:38):
I think that we lose ourselves in all these decades
of giving and being all theseother roles, that it's really
difficult to figure out what wewant.
So it's even more than justgiving ourselves permission.
I mean, that's the start, ofcourse.
But then I think that talkingand writing, I think that that
is so important for us to beable to find ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 (17:04):
A hundred percent.
And that's why the podcast thatyou and Tina run, the
conversations that you have areso important.
And I think as women, it'salmost like in some ways,
there's so much information,right?
If you just take menopause, likeso much information that's
happening, and it's sometimeshard to read through it, but the
fact that we're noticing, I'mnoticing a dramatic increase of

(17:26):
women talking, yeah, womentalking to other women, women
sharing their stories, gettingvulnerable and really honest.
And that's hard, right?
Um, but it's happening aroundus.
And when you find the ability toto kind of tap into that and
then give yourself a minute tojust go, what are the things I
want right now?

SPEAKER_07 (17:45):
Yeah.
I I would say that when we firstdo it did this podcast, and my
generation, I'm older than Tina,but you know, I almost felt like
with some of the things that Iwas saying, like I was like, Oh,
did P did I say that out loud?
Are people can people hear me?
You know, I mean, I felt prettybad for doing that, but then I'm

(18:05):
like, no, no, speak it, say it,you know, say how you feel.

SPEAKER_02 (18:11):
It's so true.
So there's two things I want toI want to comment on that
because it's absolutely a yesand, you know, um, as I started
writing, so I started writingthe book in April, I launched my
newsletter, The Real Girl'sGuide to Over 55 on Substack in
June, maybe the middle of June.
And I write probably three timesa week.
And I do write a lot abouttopics that are sensitive.

(18:32):
I write a lot about sex, um,libido.
I write a lot about kind ofdiscovering things about myself
that to be totally honest, Ididn't know until I was in my
40s and 50s.
And somebody had asked me, afriend had asked me, aren't you
embarrassed that your boys mightread this stuff?
And I'm like, you know what?
I'm not, actually.
Um, you know, there's there's achapter in the book where I do

(18:53):
write a lot about my umrelationship now and some
amazing experiences that haveallowed me to tap into things
that I didn't even know aboutmyself.
And through the chapter, I havethree warnings to all seven of
our children.
Like, okay, kids, you know,warning, this is about to get
real.
You might want to put the bookdown, middle of the chapter.
Like, are you still here?

(19:14):
And then the end of the chapter.
It's like, if you're here, likeGodspeed to you.
But um, so I I'm notembarrassed, actually.
And then the second um examplethat this uh just brings to my
mind is through the writing ofthe book, I had a great um the
great pleasure of meeting awoman who um is an 82-year-old
author, and she was incredible.

(19:36):
So she and I did an interviewfor the book.
I ended up doing a blog QA withher, and she um actually wrote
her first book when she was inher late 70s, early 80s about
grief.
She had lost her husband and shewas struggling.
And she then went on to findlove at 82.
So the last question I asked herwas something like, you know,
um, what's been the mostsurprising thing about finding

(19:58):
love at this stage?
And she said that the partsstill work and I like it.
And I was like, here's this82-year-old, amazing woman, and
and this is what we're talkingabout.

SPEAKER_07 (20:10):
Yeah, I think that when my mom and her friends, you
know, she's my my mom's beengone since 2008, but she had a
group of women that all tell youwhat, they were spitfires, and
they would bowl and they calledthemselves the happy hookers,
and and they, you know, theywould look at the guys bowling

(20:32):
and things like that.
And I even said something to oneof the women that my mom would
hang out with, and she'dsay, 'I'm not dead,' you know,
and I'm just like, 'Yes,' Imean, I loved it.
That's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_02 (20:44):
It really is, and that's reminding me of a story.
So I was really close to both ofmy grandmothers, but my maternal
grandmother in particular.
And I remember being in my 20s,and I, you know, I didn't have
an active like social life in my20s.
I was, you know, I went toschool, I started working.
So I spent a lot of Fridaynights with my grandma, and we
would watch things like MurderShe Wrote for those who uh
remember those shows.

(21:05):
But one night I was helping mygrandma put laundry away and I
went into a drawer and I saw aleopard, kind of leopard print
of something, and I pulled itout and I held it out in front
of my arms, and I accusinglylooked at her and I said, What
are these?
And she said, Well, we may beold.
She was referring to my grandpa,but we're not dead.

(21:27):
And she said, And remember, loveis where you find it, like in
the kitchen, on the dining roomtable, in the bathroom, in the
living room.
And I was like, Well, that'sjust says it all.
Like, you know, and she was inher, gosh, she was in her 70s at
that point.

SPEAKER_03 (21:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (21:44):
So, you know, they these conversations happen, but
I think, I think they'rehappening more now.
And I I could not be happier,could not be happier.
That finally, finally, we'rehaving these conversations.

SPEAKER_07 (21:58):
Yeah.
I mean, I think that they kindof started to pave the way for
us.
You know, I mean, I can remembermy aunts, and they were the next
generation up above my mom.
And I mean, the dresses and thehair was up, and they cooked in
their dresses, and you alwayshad to come to the table.
And but I was surrounded bystrong women.

(22:19):
And I think that that reallyhelped me.
Their strength showed up in thehome, I think that more outside
as change makers in the world.
But now women are redefiningwhat's possible at every single
age.
How do you think that we gothere?
What shifted in our culture andin ourselves to open that door?

SPEAKER_02 (22:38):
Well, I think, okay, so I have a few points of view,
but you know, just from a dataperspective, I was reading a
statistic that said somethinglike by the year 2030, women
over 55 will represent likenearly one-third of the US
female population.
Okay.
So there's something that'shappening just in our numbers.
I also think that what'shappening is a lot of um, a lot

(23:02):
of our economic system istapping into the fact that we
women uh above the age of 40have a lot of spending power.
So all of a sudden, we arebecoming a very attractive and
irrelevant demographic.
So that's number one.
Um, and and so you can look atthat and go, gosh, you know, is
that really what it takes?
Like everything's about dollarsand cents.
But you know, we can we candebate that for sure.

(23:24):
But let's just like the datadoesn't lie.
Um, so so there's that.
And I so I think that part of itis there are more of us, right?
In this, in this midlife, andyou know, even again, midlife is
a little bit of an arbitraryphrase, but you know, when you
look at our demographic, um,late 40s, 50s, 60s, and beyond
beyond, there's just a lot ofus.

(23:46):
We have a lot of power.
And I think we're starting tosee more of us in positions that
are very visible, personally.
And I think so.
That's one thing.
I also wonder if part of thisis, you know, the fact that in
the course of you know, thisinfluencer culture, right?
You see a lot more women justgetting very vocal and

(24:09):
comfortable sharing parts oftheir lives.
So I can't say that becausebefore June, when I launched my
newsletter, I had I had zerosocial media presence.
I hadn't posted on Facebooksince like 2018.
So I wasn't a social person, butyou can't escape what you're
seeing.
So you're seeing a lot more ofus.
We're recognizing that we have alot of spending power, and we're

(24:31):
starting to see this generationof women who might be younger
than us who are just out therein the world.
And they're talking and they'resharing and they're they're
putting themselves inuncomfortable positions, and yet
they're they're persevering.
And so I think I think it's kindof a combination of these
things.
And then I just think that theconversation that we're having,

(24:53):
these conversations areshifting, right?
Like I would never have imaginedeven being 35 and talking to my
girlfriends about my libido orabout you know my sexual
experiences or what I wasfeeling or why I was feeling it.
So there's a shift in thecontent of the things that we're
talking about that I think isprobably contributing to a lot

(25:14):
of this kind of culture ofacceptance and appreciation for
what we bring to the party.

SPEAKER_07 (25:25):
Um I'm a TikTok person, you know, and and I
think that there's a lot ofolder people that come in my
algorithm who uh show up andthey're talking about
everything.
And I absolutely love it.
And I stay on those, you know,and I think it's because I'm
older and it really doesresonate with me.

(25:45):
But I just love that the youngerpeople are listening to them
too.
And what I love about that isthat at some point maybe they
realize we might have somewisdom.
I don't know.
You know, we've we've earned it.
Um, but there are a couple womenon there that that's what they
do.
They just get up there and theythey tell their wives, you know,
what they're thinking for theday.

(26:07):
And uh, I just really love thatwe've been given platforms.

SPEAKER_02 (26:12):
I think so.
And I think we've been givingthem, I think the conversations
are changing.
And what I love probably themost is that more women are
taking advantage of it.
More of us are standing up andkind of getting out of the
shadows and going, you knowwhat?
I have something to say.
I'm feeling something, I'mstruggling with something.
And chances are if it'shappening for me to me, it's

(26:33):
happening for a lot of otherpeople.
So what's the worst that canhappen?
Right.
So I I recently had lunch with agroup of girlfriends that I've
known since I was in anelementary school.
And man, that the the the tenorand the content of that lunch, I
think part and parcel to whatI've been writing about and how
incredibly supportive they'vebeen was totally different.

(26:54):
Totally different.
And I we all walked away feelinglike like just to your point,
like strand standing straighterand feeling stronger.
And like, you know what?
We don't owe the world, we don'towe our kids, we don't owe our
partners anything, but coming toour the the collective party as

(27:15):
who we are.
And you don't need and we don'tneed to ask for permission for
that.
And we knew that at that lunchwe all had each other's back.
So whatever subject matter wasdiscussed, me, when I brought up
mine, it was like I knew I hadsix other women who were like,
absolutely, you go and don'tlook back.
And it was there's somethingvery empowered empowering, I

(27:37):
think, when you know you've gota collective, whether it's women
that you know or women thatyou're engaging with or women
that you're meeting who arestanding alongside you, who
you're not alone.
Right and and that whetherthey're directly or indirectly,
we're all kind of rooting forone another.
And that's the thing that Ithink is super powerful.

SPEAKER_07 (27:55):
See, that's good too, because you know, women can
be so competitive.
And I think that that's greatthat that has shifted.
But you talk about the in theheart of your message, you do
talk about radicalself-possession.
What does that mean in plainlanguage and how can women
practice it daily?

SPEAKER_02 (28:16):
Yep.
So here's here's what it meansfor me.
It means you get to say nowithout having to write an
essay.

SPEAKER_07 (28:23):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (28:24):
Because I'm I'm super guilty of that.
You know, if if if somebody asksme to do something, whether it's
associated with my kids orsomething else, it's like, oh
man, no.
And and here's the 17 reasonswhy I can't do it.
Well, I don't know.
It's just no.
Or here are the things I can do.
I don't owe anybody an essay.
So that's one way that I'veembraced this.

(28:44):
Um I think that it's also I'verealized that you know, in my
career in particular, there werecertain opportunities that
either I didn't pursue or Iwasn't invited to.
And in this new phase ofretirement, I'm not waiting for
somebody to invite me to you toyour table.
If I don't like your table, andif I want to be at a table like

(29:05):
yours, I'm gonna make my own.
So I'm not waiting for somebodyto invite me.
So that's another way that it'sum manifesting itself.
I think in some ways it's alsojust doing um, booking a trip if
you want to take a trip.
Um, you know, breaking a patternif you want to break a pattern,
share something that you want toshare, but just taking action

(29:25):
and doing something, beginning.
Just begin.
I certainly, when I set out todo this book, I didn't have a
roadmap.
I've never done this before.
And I am figuring it out as Igo.
But it started for me because Ijust began it.
Um, I think I think the otherthing that the way it shows has
shown up for me is this ideathat I'm not responsible for the

(29:46):
peace of other people.
And that peace doesn't come byme being soft and being calm and
being easy and being small andbeing, you know, just.
Even it just does so, and I'mnot responsible for everybody
else's comfort and peace andhappiness.
And I also think I am wholly,wholly embracing this idea of

(30:11):
being uncomfortable andunbothered myself, but also I
have to let other people sit intheir own discomfort.
I cannot be responsible forthat.
And I don't have to perform tomake other people feel
comfortable.

SPEAKER_07 (30:29):
Yeah.
You know, you touched onsomething that I think that we
uh so often do, and that's ownother people's stuff.
We really do.
I mean, we we just pick upeverybody else's baggage and we
carry it around instead of layit down and and just deal with
what we have, you know.
And I think that that's part ofthe reason why we haven't really

(30:53):
worked on ourselves for so long,because we're working on
everybody else.

SPEAKER_02 (30:57):
I think you're absolutely right.
I think we're working oneverybody else.
And there's if I look back atthat time as well, for me, I I
had very legitimate reasons, Ithought, for what I was doing.
I was doing things for my kids,my partner, I was doing things
for stabil stability.
I was doing maybe because eitherdirectly or indirectly, some of

(31:18):
this stuff was modeled for me.
And in some cases, it was justsurvival, right?
Like I, you know, in in someways it was like, oh, if I just
am silent about this thing, I'llpower through it, I'll get
through it, everything will befine.
But you know, this idea thatlike survival just became for me
in some ways silence.
And I just realized that none ofthose things are true.

(31:43):
And they don't, and and andmaybe they were true for me
then.
And I'm not gonna go back andlike rehash and you know, like
beat us, beat myself up with astick about all that stuff.
But what am what am I doing now?
I am changing.
I I don't need to follow thosepatterns anymore.

SPEAKER_07 (31:57):
And I'm not right, yeah.
We don't need to be silenced, wedon't need to be quiet.
No, and I absolutely love that.
Another thing that you point outis hormones and emotions
intersect with power andconfidence.
Yes, I love that.
Yeah, can you explain that?

SPEAKER_02 (32:14):
Yeah, so and again, I'll relate it to my own
experience, but um, I think so.
I was reading this article aboutthe power of estrogen, some of
these hormones, right?
These female hormones for a lotof years as we're we're
developing, and again, I'm not adoctor, I'm just you know, kind
of a real girl trying to figureall this stuff out, right?
Um, because the the changes comedaily and they don't stop, I'm

(32:37):
finding.
But, you know, there's thisprotective layer that like some
of these female hormones giveus, right?
Um, as we're kind of coming upin age.
And they um in in in myexperience, I think what they
did was they also helped me tojust be softer.
I was uh probably a little bitmore agreeable, I was a little
bit softer, but I also did nothave a lot of labels and names

(33:00):
to put on the things that werehappening in my body.
Um, you know, if I look back inmy mid-30s to late 30s, I was
absolutely in full-blownperimenopause.
I only know that now.
I had no idea at the time.
None.

SPEAKER_03 (33:12):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (33:12):
And then I get through having my last son at
40, and then things are startingto shift at 41, 42, 43, 44.
And I was like, what is actuallyhappening to me?
And and I was also going througha divorce at that time.
I was trying to settle andstabilize myself and my three
boys.
They needed me to be a steadybreast.
My words were off the rocker,but I didn't have a name for it.

(33:37):
And so I think what happens wasfor me, looking back at that
time, I am so much kindler andgentler about who I was at that
period because I I now know whatwas happening to me.
And I think, in a lot of ways, alot of the changes that I made,
I did it took a lot ofconfidence, but it wasn't

(34:00):
anything that I was able to tapinto because I I didn't even
know I was just like, hey, thesethings are happening, I'm
shifting all over the place, I'mnot sure why, but I just have to
do.
And so for me, a lot of thisintersection um has come through
the acknowledgement that the thethings that I was feeling at
that time were absolutelyhormonal.

(34:21):
They were not in my head.
Number one, I was not crazy,number two, and I still feel
that way.
And I think number three is thefact that as I've tried kind of
progressed through thismenopause journey, um, I have
become a much more powerfulforce for me.
I'm taking better care ofmyself.

(34:42):
I'm starting to question thethings that are happening to me
and why.
I'm not taking no for an answerwhen my doctor's shoulder shrugs
and like, you know, yeah, you'vebeen in menopause since 47.
And yeah, it sucks that you havehot flashes again.
I don't know what to tell you.
Like that's unacceptable to me.

SPEAKER_05 (34:59):
Right.
Self-advocating.

SPEAKER_02 (35:01):
Yeah, totally, totally.
And I'm taking control and I'mtaking back my power to go, you
know what?
I'm not satisfied with that.
And it's not all in my head.
And this myth that I wasprobably given that menopause,
like, I really thought once youkind of get through that magic
12 months, you tick a box andgo, wow, I can turn in my card
now.
I'm done.
That's not been my experience.
And so I'm tapping into allthese things and I'm feeling

(35:23):
confident to go, no, no, no,doctor who I've seen for 25
years, I am un that answer isunacceptable to me.
And I am not going to stop untilI find somebody who is going to
listen to what is happening tome right now.
And that takes a level of power,like I'm reclaiming my power.
It takes a level of the youknow, acknowledgement that I am

(35:45):
not crazy.

unknown (35:46):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (35:46):
These hormone things are shifting for me.
And it's, and I'm I am becomingdissatisfied with answers that
are not progressing me forward.
So I think that thatintersection, I'm not sure if I
answered your question directly,but it's that intersection of,
you know, we're becoming moreeducated, we're becoming
dissatisfied with even just ourthe physical changes that are

(36:07):
happening inside of our body.
We're starting to now labelthese things because we
understand them more.
And we're starting to go, youknow what?
I am not going to sit back andjust let these things happen.
I'm going to get help.
And that's what we're doing.
Right.

SPEAKER_07 (36:20):
I had a vision of when you were talking about the
doctor, of you know, and I'veseen this happen to myself, and
it's a different scenario, butit's the same thing where, like,
we a woman goes to buy a car,and their experience is so
different.
The price that they're offered,the way that they, you know, the

(36:41):
whole entire experience of how asalesman deals with a woman
versus how a salesman deals witha man.
Or if your car needs fixed, youknow, they tell you all these
things are wrong with it and allthis stuff, and then you end up
paying thousands of dollars anda man goes.
And I mean, it's really true howwe are treated.

(37:02):
And uh I mean, I I still seethat today.

SPEAKER_02 (37:06):
Oh, absolutely.
So there's a couple of examplesI'll give you for this.
Um I I was having thisconversation with a friend.
I was, I was having some bladderproblems.
Okay.
And it was, you know, I went tomy doctor and she's like, well,
you know, yeah, this is justwhat happened.
She've had three kids, blah,blah, blah.
And I'm like, you know what?
I'm unsatisfied because all I dois talk about P pads with my
friends.

(37:26):
That's a big topic ofconversation.
Like, well, what pad are youwearing?
And is it working?
Is it not?
So she sent me to um a urologistwho did an ultrasound.
So I go back and I do theultrasound.
And we just want to make surethat there's nothing
structurally wrong with thebladder.
And I mentioned to theultrasound tech, like, man,
these used to be a lot more funwhen I was coming in to see the
baby when I was pregnant.

(37:47):
You know, when the baby's like,Do you want me to take a picture
of it?
You know, I could send you homewith a picture.
And I'm like, no.
Well, she did.
And I realized one of my I wecan only find one ovary in my um
in my uterus.
And so I go to have dinner witha girlfriend that night.
And I'm like, like, did youknow?
And I pulled out my older soundpicture, which I have right here
on my desk.
I said, look at my one ovary.

(38:08):
Like, how big are our ovariessupposed to be at this age?
And here we are in our mid-50s.
She's like, I'm not sure.
I said, are they supposed to belike walnut size or pear size?
She's like, I don't know.
So A, we don't know.
And then I said, How come I onlyhave one?
And she's like, I don't know.
So then I went on to kind ofresearch and realized that,
yeah, like sometimes whathappens with your body is when

(38:30):
you have organs that aren'tused, they kind of just
disappear.
So I said to my girlfriend, Icalled her back and I said, So
imagine this.
What if we told men that intheir mid-50s, one of their
testicles was gonna shrivel upand just fall off?
Yeah, you better believe wewould have a national vaccine.

(38:51):
So that's one example.
Another example is so this pastsummer I was reading a book uh
by Miranda July.
It's called All Fours.
It's a fictional book, a littlesmuddy, but it was a really good
book.
But in that book, she wrote sheum uh created a hormone chart
for men and women, estradiol andtestosterone over um decades.

(39:13):
And basically this chart showsthe dramatic, not a cute little
stroll down a hill, but adramatic fall for women on
estrogen and how littletestosterone we have, and even
the little amount we have, howhow starkly it it decreases
versus men who their decline issmaller.

(39:36):
And I'm thinking to myself, I amin my mid-50s.
How did I never know that?
Because all the things that Iwas feeling from a libido
standpoint, I got answered.
Like that chart made sense tome.
And my partner was reading thesame book, would maybe like to
read the same books.
He had to get on a flight toLondon.
He gets off the flight, he callsme, he said, Did you get to the
chart?

(39:56):
And I said, Well, I'm past thechart.
He said, Babe, I am so sorry.

SPEAKER_04 (40:00):
Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 (40:06):
And I I never understood that that is what was
happening inside my body.
And I believe that if if it wereabout men, every 10th grader in
the US would have learned aboutthat in health class.
And it would be printed on, youknow how you go to the pharmacy
and you get a bag and they printlike cute little reminders, you
know, get your flu shot, dothis.

(40:27):
It would be printed as a warningon a pharmacy bag.
Like I'm quite positive.
But I think I think that that'sit, it's the for me personally,
it was how absolutelyundereducated I was, but I
didn't even know that I shouldbe asking these questions.
I just knew that stuff washappening for me.
Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_07 (40:48):
Yes, it does.
And we aren't really, we don'tget a book for this.
And so we aren't we we aren'ttold how to age as women and
what's really happening with ourbodies.
No.
So it would be really nice ifphysicians were more forthcoming
in some of this information.

SPEAKER_02 (41:06):
A hundred percent, a hundred percent.
And I think, you know, I thinkwe're starting to see a lot more
conversation about it.
Now the challenge that I havetoo is man, how do I weed
through?
And you know, how do I decipherall this?
I'm not a doctor, I didn't go tomedical school, but you know, I
think for me, the way I'm justkind of uh addressing all this
is I'm being much more attentiveto the things that are happening
to me, the changes that I feel,the emotional changes, the

(41:29):
physical changes, thereproductive changes, whatever
it is.
And when these things arehappening, I'm asking questions.
I am demanding answers from mydoctor.
I'm talking to my girlfriends.
Like, hey, are like, is this areyou sane?
Am I like, am I crazy?
Am I the only one?
And the answer is no, you'renot.
So I'm just starting to key intosome of those things.
And I think with that abilityand interest in focusing on

(41:52):
myself, I am taking back powerand I feel a lot more confident,
whether it's stepping into adoctor's office and not
accepting that shoulder shrug oryou know, looking at, hey, yeah,
my libido's changed.
It does not have to feel likethis.

SPEAKER_07 (42:06):
Right.
One of the things that I'venoticed about you, though, in
your writing and in yourspeaking, when we're even
talking here, one of the thingsthat you do is you go to humor.
And, you know, humor can be areal tool when we're dealing
with hot flashes and um we'reand we're feeling so hot and
life stresses is even hotter.

(42:28):
I mean, how how do you deal anduse this as a tool?

SPEAKER_02 (42:33):
Yeah, I think, you know, it's really funny because
I think in a lot of ways, I amexactly the same person, whether
I'm in front of my kids.
I do try to moderate my cursewords in front of the kids, but
I I think even now I'm like, I'mjust too tired um to be that.
But I'm pretty much the sameperson, um, you know, wherever I

(42:55):
am.
And I've just found that theonly way I know how to be when
I'm talking about all this stuffis just honest.
And the stuff that happens tome, I love it, it's
embarrassing, but it's justhonest.
And it is kind of funny.
You know, the fact that I I Iliterally wrote a whole blog
about P pads and the dribblebecause it's all I talk about

(43:15):
right now.
Right.
And I feel like there's no shamein that game.
I just I think, and so I thinkit's I'm exactly the same person
that I am in front of my kids,um, in front of amazing women
like you, in front of my bosses,in front of my partner, in front
of my parents, whatever.
Um, I think it's just being veryhonest and open because I kind

(43:35):
of have felt like if I'mstruggling with this stuff, I
cannot be the only one.
And then I think it's removingthe shame.
Somebody doesn't like it orsomebody is offended.
My answer to that is that'sthat's you.
And and I invite you to not readwhat I write.
Um, I invite you to not engagein the conversation then.
And and that's that's a choice,right?

(43:56):
But I think I I have removedthere's no shame in it.
And I think that a lot of us fora long time, me included, I felt
embarrassed and shameful to kindof talk about the fact that,
hey, maybe I didn't know thekinds of things that brought me
pleasure in the bedroom.
Maybe I didn't spend enough timereally analyzing what it is that
I like and what what do I need?

(44:18):
Yeah, that's embarrassing.
But you know what?
If I'm struggling with this,chances are a lot of other women
are as well.
And why can't we just normalizeit and talk about it?
And it can be funny.

SPEAKER_07 (44:29):
Yeah, it really can.

SPEAKER_02 (44:31):
It can be, I mean, it's and it's not to like poke
fun at us, but some of the stuffthat I've written about that
have happened, you know, thathappened to me at the time,
maybe I didn't find it so funny.
But looking back now, and youknow, I have two um younger
sisters, they're in their 30s.
And in a lot of ways, I like tosay that I'm like their crash
test dummy.
So for them, they're like, oh myGod, write about everything and

(44:54):
tell me everything, and please,please, please warn me about
everything.
Uh so at least I have a captiveaudience of some of my lovelies
who are in their 30s and 40sgoing, this is like a this is
like a a warning book.
Like, and and and you knowwhat's funny about that too, and
what I love about what we'redoing is I really hope we are

(45:15):
reaching these younger womenbecause there's so many things
that we're talking about thatyou and Tina talk about that had
I known in my 30s and 40s, Imight have, I might have
dismissed, who knows?
I might have created even aneven bigger distance between
myself and like midlife or 50s,and oof, that's like old lady
stuff, that's not me.

(45:35):
But I think that there wouldhave been shreds of things I
listen to, and certainly aboutthe changes in my hormones and
my body, and if nothing else, togo wait, if I'm in my mid-30s
and I'm noticing a cycle change,I need to go talk to somebody
about that.

SPEAKER_07 (45:49):
Right.
Yeah, you really bring up a lotof great questions.
I think that that's one of thethings that you are making the
younger generations think.
I hope that they pay attentionto this because we didn't.
So, you know, I I it's almostlike I think there should be a
big caution sign, you know,saying pay attention, be this is

(46:10):
a warning.

SPEAKER_01 (46:11):
So this is a warning, and you'll thank us
later.
You really will thank us later.

SPEAKER_07 (46:16):
You know, we are constantly rewriting ourselves,
and I think becoming betterversions of ourselves as we
grow.
And, you know, we don't I I dohave some youngers here still,
but most kids, most adults myage do not have the youngers,
and our careers change, weevolve, and I find that
everything has been a steppingstone to where we are now in

(46:38):
life.
I can't even tell you how manyidentity shifts that I have had.
Can you talk more aboutrewriting ourselves?

SPEAKER_02 (46:48):
Yeah.
Um, so the identity shifts Ithink start with, you know, for
me, you know, when you'retransitioning from a college
student to maybe a career personand then getting married and
then becoming a mom and then youknow, divorcing.
And I had to kind of adapt andsort of figure out like, who who
am I in the world?

SPEAKER_03 (47:04):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (47:05):
Who do I?
And I don't even think I everstarted with the question, who
do I want to be in the world?
It was almost like, who do Ihave to be in the world right
now?
And who do I have to be today?
And who do I have to be for mykids, and who do I have to be
for my partner, and who do Ihave to be for my boss?
And and so those things arehappening to us.
And I think the subtle shiftthough for me was I stopped

(47:27):
asking, who do I have to be for?
And started asking, who do Iwant to be right now?
Um, and that impacted, I think,a lot of the decisions I made,
probably in relationships.
It certainly impacted in mylater years from a career
standpoint, how I viewed mycareer.
I stopped going, well, you know,who do I have to be to survive

(47:48):
here?
To who do I want to be?
And then reclaiming that andgoing, Yeah, I'm gonna stay at
this job.
I know why I'm staying, I have avery clear intentional reason.
And I'm staying because I wantto be this.
Cool.
And it there was a level offreedom, honestly, that came
when I started shifting thequestion that I didn't feel
before.
Like, if you would have asked melast year at this time, would I

(48:10):
be an author a year later?
I would have been like, You'renuts.
But then I tapped into that andit's like, what, why not?
So I kind of think I stoppedasking, you know, who do I want
to be for?
And started asking, who do Iwant to be?
And then started, I stoppedasking or or or thinking this
can't be me.
And started going, why not?

(48:31):
Yeah, why not?
If I want to write a book, whynot?

SPEAKER_07 (48:34):
Right.
And I love that because we arebetter than we were a year ago
or five years ago or 10 yearsago.
And why not?

SPEAKER_02 (48:45):
Yeah, and I think we I think a lot of it too, though,
is us recognizing, like, I and Ilook back at that time and I I
was a strong woman.
I got through a lot of stuff,you know.
I was, but also there werethings about myself I was
critical about.
You know, I could look at mybody in the mirror and go, man,
there's 17 things I don't Idon't like, or I've got a
problem with my legs orwhatever.

(49:06):
But what I've realized is thisis the body that got me through
a lot of stuff.
This is the body that gave me mythree boys.
This is the body that walkedinto jobs, and this is the body
that, you know, brokeredcontentious work meetings.
This is the body that walked meto a mediator's office when I
realized that my ex-husband andI needed to make a change.

(49:28):
I did that.
And now I'm not criticizing her.
I'm looking at her going, man,you know, you're pretty, you're
pretty good.

SPEAKER_07 (49:37):
Yeah.
It's it's like a tree trunkwhere our bodies show all the
rings and everything that we'vegone through, and there's like a
scar here, and it's somethingyou know, and it like shows our
entire life as you know we age.

SPEAKER_02 (49:52):
I am embracing that.
I appreciate it.
And I don't, yeah, I don't haveregrets.
Um, that's good necessarily.
I mean, I do wish I would haveeducated myself more on some of
the hormonal stuff, but that'syou know, I don't have a lot of
regrets, and now it's it's notwhat am I doing or I can't do
this.
It's why not?
Why can't I?

SPEAKER_07 (50:12):
I always say trust the process and and some of the
things that we have in life thathave really affected me, I know,
and uh a lot of women are ourfailures, if that's how you want
to say it, along the way, and umbeing able to flip it and turn
our failures into blessings andend up right where we're

(50:32):
supposed to be and use them asstepping stones.
Uh, what what do you think aboutthat?

SPEAKER_02 (50:38):
I could not agree more.
I mean, and I I think I I spenda lot of time even reminding my
kids of this, right?
Um, I feel myself, I feel like Ilearned the most things from
these either self-labeled or youknow perceived failures in my
life.
And I don't, you know, were theypainful at the time?
Sure.

(50:59):
Um, but they brought me to whereI am today.
They allowed me to uncover andre and reacquaint myself with a
lot of the things I actuallyreally like about myself.
They allowed me to develop newmuscle and new competence and
new skills that maybe I didn'thave before.
And so do I look back at any ofthose and go, man, I don't.

(51:22):
I actually don't.
Um, I look back at those and I'mgrateful because they made me
who I am today.

SPEAKER_07 (51:29):
Yes.
I mean, imagine if we neverfailed.
I mean, we wouldn't evenrecognize when we did do well or
when we did earn something.

SPEAKER_02 (51:37):
And wouldn't it just be so boring?
It'd be like living in theTruman show or, you know, some
of those.
It would just be so boring.
And I don't want, I don't wantboring.
I don't want cookie cutter.
I don't want, you know, I don'twant somebody telling me, oh,
this is how you have to do yourbook, or this is how you have to
do your blog, or this is how youhave to show up at in this, you

(51:58):
know, consulting engagement, orthis is how you have to be to
your kids right now.
No, no, I get to decide.

SPEAKER_07 (52:04):
You know, when I started this podcast, I didn't
know I was a journalist yearsago.
I mean, I knew how to do thejournalism part, I knew how to
do the mental health stuff, Iknew how, but I didn't know how
to do a podcast.
And so, you know, it's not, itwasn't perfect or whatever.
I mean, sometimes, just like youwith writing a book, I mean, we
just have to jump.

SPEAKER_05 (52:24):
Yes.

SPEAKER_07 (52:25):
And and, you know, if if the parachute doesn't
open, maybe halfway down, youknow, I mean, we made it.
Um, but that's what it's allabout.
When when did you realize thatyou had a greater purpose to
help people?

SPEAKER_02 (52:39):
Well, you know, it's a really good question.
I mean, I do think if I go back,um, if I go back to, you know,
just finding that folder, oryou're starting that folder at
35, and I think it was born outof the maybe a little bit of a
selfish need because I wasstruggling.
I cannot be the only onestruggling here.
And I need help.

(52:59):
And how do I go about trying tofind out and find that help?
So I think maybe some of it wasmaybe born out of my own need
and my own struggles for justneeding comfort, needing
answers, needed needing to knowthat I wasn't alone in all the
things that I was feeling andall the things that I was
experiencing.
And I think I need I needed to alittle bit of affirmation and

(53:22):
and validation for myself that Iwasn't crazy, that all of these
things that I was feeling andexperiencing were normal, and
that I wasn't alone.
And I think that that same setof principles applied when I
found the folder.
And I started thinking about allthe subjects that were feeling
overwhelming to me, or changing,or shifting, or that were

(53:44):
bubbling up to the surface in areally exciting way, or that I
was afraid of.
And I was like, you know, Icannot be the only one here.
And I want more people talkingto me.
I want, apparently, I wantedmore help.
I wanted more help from otherpeople.
I wanted to hear what otherwomen were going through.
I wanted to hear what otherexperts had to say about this

(54:04):
stuff because I wanted to helpme.
So maybe it was a little bit ofthat.
I kind of needed to help myselfa little bit.
And I recognized in the processof me helping me, I could maybe
help other people.
Right.
Um, so I think it's that kindof, you know, I I fly a lot.
Um, my partner uh lives inAustralia, so we have a long

(54:25):
distance um relationship.

SPEAKER_05 (54:28):
Oh, that's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 (54:29):
It's so my um, but I fly a lot, and you know the
announcement that the flightattendants will make about the
oxygen mass dropping.
Like if it drops, what are yousupposed to do?

SPEAKER_07 (54:39):
You have to take care of yourself first.

SPEAKER_02 (54:41):
Yeah, yeah.
And I think I think I probablysubconsciously always felt like
that was that was a cute idea.
Like, oh, but when you're a momand you're all these other
things, like I didn't thatthat's not real.
People don't do that.
And now I'm realizing, yeah,they do.
You have to.

SPEAKER_07 (54:59):
Right.
Yeah, you just kind of touchedon something else with um
boundaries and things that arereally important.
What boundaries would you sayare non-negotiables when we're
reinventing ourselves?
Or how do we stop apologizingfor honoring them?

SPEAKER_02 (55:17):
Yeah.
I think the one, I think, Ithink a big one is you sort of
have to write a promise toyourself that whatever it is
that you want to do, right?
Whatever it is, and and I kindof did this when I started
writing the book.
I I wrote down that um kind of aparagraph, and basically that
paragraph said things like, thisis gonna feel very overwhelming.

(55:38):
You don't have a playbook here,you don't know what steps you're
gonna have to take, but this isimportant.
You started this, you had thisidea 20 years ago, you found it
now, you're just going to do it.
And it also was a way to remindmyself that I am very
resourceful and I know thisabout myself.
If I don't know something, Iknow, I trust myself enough to

(56:01):
know I will figure it out.
That has been, I've I've donethat in most aspects of my life.
I'll feel afraid, I won't have aplaybook, I won't have a
guidebook, but I know enoughabout me to go, you will figure
it out.
And and I wrote that down.
You won't know a lot of thingsto do, you won't know the next
five things.
And I like a good plan.

(56:22):
I like a good plan.
And man, you are jumping intothe deep end with some of this
stuff, and I don't know what'scoming at me next, but I know
me.
And I know that I'm resourceful,and I know that I will figure it
out.
And so I had to write that downand just and and every once in a
while I open the red folder andI look at that paragraph and I
go, okay, it feels overwhelmingtoday, but I will figure it out.

(56:46):
I will figure it out.

SPEAKER_07 (56:48):
I think that you just defined most women, yeah,
and and that we are soresilient, yeah.
And I think that familybasically is because of women.
And you think, and we it doesn'tmatter what problem hits our
family or our kids or us, wedon't know the next step in

(57:12):
front of us.
Sometimes we can't even see, letalone five steps ahead of us,
but maybe the one right in frontof us.
But we always figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 (57:21):
We just do, we just do, and I think and I can tell
you every woman that I know,every woman that I've met
through this process, I can tellyou that they have that same
trait.
Everyone and it's it's like youhave to tap into it, you have to
you have to remind yourself ofit, and you have to trust

(57:45):
yourself.
That's right, that you've doneit before and you can keep doing
it.
That's what I think.
Um and I think for me too, itwas changing the question.
It was I'm not starting anythingnew with you know, what about
this?
And oh gosh, it can't be this,and you know, I don't know these

(58:05):
things, and what if I what ifthis and what if that?
It was the question became whynot?
Why can't I?
Why can't I write a book?

SPEAKER_07 (58:12):
Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 (58:14):
Why can't I start a substack?

SPEAKER_07 (58:16):
When you when you were talking about when we were
talking about women and men, Iuh it made me think about how
that's I can see God saying, youknow, oh I made Adam, oh shoot.
I really I really I really haveto have somebody help navigate
the world and this guy and orhelp or else it's not going

(58:37):
anywhere.
So I'm gonna have to send awoman.
I just have to, in order for afamily to be able to make it.

SPEAKER_02 (58:46):
So true.
You could almost just imagine,like, oops, there could be a
fatal flaw on my plan.
I better fix this.

SPEAKER_07 (58:54):
Yes.
So one of the things that I loveabout your uh community is that
you have you're building acommunity through RGG55 or 55.
Yeah, and I think that that's soimportant.
How do you think midlifefriendships are?
I mean, I'm I they are sodifferent.

(59:15):
My older friends are still, forone thing, they're working into
their 60s and 70s now.
It's it's not the way it used tobe.
And I'm also because my youngershave I'm friends with some of
the younger generations, but inthis stage of my life, I like
the real, more authenticrelationships.
That's just where I am.

(59:36):
I don't want to do fake.
Don't even bother me with thefake because I'm not going
there.
I just want, I want real.

SPEAKER_02 (59:44):
You've hit it.
And I did a um a blog article onmidlife friendships, and I think
you hit it.
It's this isn't a volume play.
This isn't a quantity play, it'sa quality play.
And I've, you know, who are thewomen or the men?
Like, who are the friends thatare adding stuff?
Something to my life where Ifeel like I cannot talk to them
for two or three months and thenwe reconnect and it's like no

(01:00:06):
time has passed.
Or the friends who know that I'mdoing something big or I'm I'm
you know staring down the faceof a big problem and who will
drop me a text and go, Hey, I'mjust thinking about you today.
It's it's it's not fake, it'snot performative, it's not
competitive, it's just real.

(01:00:26):
And it's it's the friends whoget honest with me about what's
going on for them.
It's the friends that I trustthat I can be honest with.
And it's it's removing the shameand the the this need to one up
each other or this need toappear perfect.
Like I am not.
And those are the friendshipsthat I keep gravitating toward.

(01:00:49):
And it's some of them are newerfriends that I've met through
work or through friends of mykids or um, you know, friends of
friends, even.
It's the realness, the authenticrelationships.
It's the people that I don'tneed to perform for or I'm not
competing with.
It's the people that I can gethonest with and get honest with

(01:01:10):
me, and the people that want tosee me succeed and be successful
and build me up and remind methat I can do anything I put my
mind to on the days where I feelshaky.

SPEAKER_07 (01:01:19):
Yeah, I I can pick up on it right away.
I mean, if somebody's fake, it'slike, okay, hi, bye.
Nice to know you, you know, andmove on.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:29):
It's our radar, and I think part of that too is this
again, kind of trusting inourselves.
Like our radar is really good.
And we've got to trust it.
And when the when the spideysenses are going, this isn't
feeling right, you gotta go withthat.
And then feeling confident thatI can trust my intuition.
Nine times out of ten, honestly,when I get a gut feeling, it I

(01:01:51):
usually find myself in troublewhen I don't trust it.

SPEAKER_07 (01:01:54):
Exactly.
Yes, if I second guessed, and itand so I've learned to just, and
I'm always, and it's reallyfunny.
I don't really mean to brag, butI'm normally right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:07):
You should well, and brag.
And it's okay, you've earned theright because your track record
proves it.

SPEAKER_07 (01:02:13):
Like, right, yeah, yeah.
I I think it is maybe thatwisdom.
I'm not really sure, but we Ithink have earned the right to
be able to go with our gut.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:24):
100%.
We more than earned the right,like we've lived through the the
storms, we've persevered throughthe issues, we've built and have
always been resilient.
Like that, those are those areour rights.
That that more than anything,um, we need to lean on that.

SPEAKER_07 (01:02:43):
When I was younger, I looked at my aunt Hazel, who I
thought was always old, shealways looked old.
Um, but she lived a lot longerthan I I you know, I always
thought she was on death's door,I guess, but she really wasn't.
Um, but that's how we look atolder people when we're younger.
And but what I loved the most,and I can specifically remember

(01:03:07):
this, is that no matter where Iwent with her, I was a little
embarrassed sometimes, but shewas always herself.
Always.
She never apologized, she wasjust really just who she was.
And I said to myself, when I gota little older and I really
looked up to that, I was like,oh my gosh, that's what I want

(01:03:27):
to be when I'm older.
I want to be just like my AuntHazel.
I don't want to make apologiesfor who I am, I just want to be.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:36):
You know, I I have a similar story.
It um, and for me, it was myAunt Joe.
She was my great-great aunt,believe it or not.
So she was alive when I was ateenager, and I used to spend a
lot of time one-on-one time withher because she actually just
had a connection.
And she would take me toamusement parks, she would bring
me to her house, we'd dosleepovers.
And what I loved about her wasnot only was she not apologetic,
but she was not afraid to askfor what she wanted.

(01:03:58):
And if she wanted something, shewas gonna go out and get it.
And she didn't sacrifice, shedidn't try to placate other
people, she wanted the thingsthat she wanted and she she made
them happen for herself.
And I very prim and proper,always with the hair done,
always just looked immaculatewith the purse and the outfit,
and the car was clean, the housewas clean, always perfect.

(01:04:20):
Always, but she never um shenever wavered on what it is she
wanted.
Yes, and I love that about myaunt Joe.
I'm glad we share that.
I love that.

SPEAKER_07 (01:04:29):
Yeah, she was my actually my great aunt too.
My dad was older, she he was anolder generation when I was
adopted by him.
So his sister, who was actually20 years older than her, him,
even, you know.
I mean, it so she was mucholder, but um, she really taught
me a lot, and that's why.
This is why people need to payattention to our generation

(01:04:53):
because we really can pass downthese things.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:57):
We can pass them down from things that we've
learned.
They're they're like livedexperiences.
Like, honestly, pay attention tous.
We we have lived it, and if wedidn't live it, we know somebody
who who've lived who has, andalso I think that we pay we pay
great attention.
We are stewards of this stuff,and we are attentive, we are um,

(01:05:20):
we've lived it, we haveexperiences, and now we are
shaping those into helpfulguides, helpful pitfalls to
avoid, empowering messages thatman, if I were in my 30s and 40s
right now, I'd be soaking thisup all the time, all the time.

SPEAKER_07 (01:05:40):
I think though, the younger generation, and I think
that I was guilty of this too.
You know, I mean, we think weknow it all.
So it's it's kind of gettingpast that to be able to listen.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:51):
Yeah, I think it's that, or for me, a lot of it was
that's never gonna happen to me.
Yeah, that's never gonna happento me.
I don't have to worry aboutthat.
It's like, well, I just wish Iwould have.
I I really think, and I say thisto my sisters all the time, who
are super gracious, right?
My younger sisters in their 30s.
I'm like the crash test dummy,but they're always super
appreciative, like, oh my gosh,Ang, thank you.

(01:06:13):
Thank you for telling us allthis stuff.
Thank you for being so open andreal.
And, you know, like, yeah, arethey gonna do anything different
with the information?
But at least they're aware.
Um, and at least like somewherein the back of their brains,
like maybe it's not today, butmaybe in five or 10 years when
their cycles are changing or thehot flashes begin, they'll go,
wait a second, she talked to meabout this.

(01:06:33):
I remember this.
Like, I gotta go do somethingabout this.

SPEAKER_07 (01:06:36):
With our age, one of the things that happens is that
uh, you know, we've been hitwith curveball after curveball.
We've just had life.
We have had life.
So, what do you think um peoplecan take with them from us the
most?
I mean, when we are the mostdown and out, unable to really

(01:06:58):
even feel like that we can getup, when we're at our lowest
moments, what advice would yougive?

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:05):
I think the advice I'd give is like, you know,
acknowledge where you're at anddon't dismiss your feelings,
don't try to justify yourfeelings, but you know, feel the
things you need to feel and youknow begin.
Take a step.
Maybe that first step is callinga friend and going, hey, I don't
I don't know what's happening,but something's happening for

(01:07:27):
me.
Or, you know, reach out forhelp, pick up a book, um, listen
to a podcast, um, just begin.
And but I think the first thingis acknowledging how you feel,
acknowledging where you'resitting and being like don't try
to minimize that, don't try torationalize it.
Just embrace where you're at,embrace how you're feeling and

(01:07:51):
begin.
Take a small step, ask for help,reach out to a friend, send a
text, listen to a podcast, pickup a book, just begin.

SPEAKER_07 (01:08:01):
Yeah, keep moving, keep moving.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:03):
And I think it'll it a lot of this stuff, you know,
depending on the thing thatwe're facing, some of these
things can feel so overwhelming,they can feel so destabilizing,
they can feel crushing.
Um, but I think the one thing toremember is chances are you've
been through something likethat, worse, or that made you

(01:08:24):
feel the way you're feeling.
And how did you get through it?
Because you you probably did.

SPEAKER_07 (01:08:29):
Right.
You made it through those,you'll make it through this.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:32):
Yeah.
And and it and there's no shamein asking for help.
There's no shame in reaching outgoing, I am struggling today.
Or can you can you can you throwa little extra positive juju my
way today?
Because here's this thing thatI'm facing.
Um, yeah.
And I I think, and then, andthen I think you just begin.

SPEAKER_07 (01:08:49):
I love that you've created a movement basically,
and you actually have anupcoming book that you've been
talking about.
I would like to hear more aboutit and interviewing 100 plus
women.
I mean, I just can't evenimagine the amount of wisdom
that you've been hearing.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:06):
It is incredible.
So, yeah, I mean, you know, theway I kind of think about the
difference between, you know,the Substack, Real Um Real Girls
Guide to Over 55 is ourcommunity.
It's the place where we can justdive in, real time, chat, share.
And the book is really thecompanion.
And it is this um, you know,reframing of all the things that

(01:09:28):
are happening us through mystory, through the stories of
other women, through the storiesof uh experts to remind us that
we're not alone.
And it's not gonna give you theprescription to deal with
everything perfectly, but it'scertainly gonna open up your
eyes to A, you're not alone, B,other women, other experts can

(01:09:48):
help you and C, there is a pathforward.
You can move through thesethings and be better for them.
And so um the interviewing, um,it was about 120 women and about
25 experts.
Um, and it was the most humblingexperience.
And again, you know, I kind ofsat down on this path and I had

(01:10:09):
an idea of the structure for thebook that I wanted, and I wanted
it to be some of my stories, butmore importantly, more
importantly, I wanted it to bethe stories of other women and
experts who have a perspectivethat maybe I didn't know or that
could help me navigate what washappening to me.
Might not solve my problem, butman, it could give me something
that I didn't know before Istarted.

(01:10:29):
And um, you know, I was, I kindof went down the path and I was
like, well, you know, it wouldbe great.
Like I have some friends I cantalk to for sure.
I can talk to my mom, but theabsolute outpouring of women who
were so brave and so open and sogiving and gracious with their
stories and the experts who gavetheir time and their wisdom and

(01:10:53):
their advice, like I I wascompletely humbled.
And again, I don't I don't I'venever done this before.
So I was floored and soincredibly grateful.
And I mean, I took something,and I can honestly say this I
took something away from everysingle person who shared
something for me for this book.

(01:11:13):
And and the way I look at it,the book is not my book.
The book is our book, thecommunity RGG55 is not mine,
it's ours.
It's it belongs to all of us whoare just in this messy middle,
um, getting through thesetransitions, dealing with all
the curveballs that man, theyjust keep coming.
Um, and it's not mine, it'sours.

(01:11:35):
And I I just and it will alwaysbe that way for me.

SPEAKER_07 (01:11:40):
I love it because I always say that everybody has a
story.
And I always wanted to just sitat a rest stop and interview
people on their travel and theirstory because everybody's going
somewhere and everybody has astory to tell.
So I'm love I love that you'retelling yours and 120 other

(01:12:00):
women's stories.
I mean, oh my gosh, the amountof wisdom that you took away
from that, I can't wait to readit, honestly.
I think that that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:10):
Thank you so much.
I'm super excited, and um, thebook will be coming out in
December.
We're gonna do a little coverreveal coming up here soon, and
that's been a fun process.
And yeah, and RGG55 continueson.
I I write about three, threeposts a week.
Um, some of them are funny andwe do polls, we do little
reframes of the month.

(01:12:30):
Some of them are hard and alittle bit more serious.
Uh, you know, there's still afew blogs that I go back to um
that really kind of create a lotof emotion in me.
Um, but it's very real and it'svery raw and it's just human.

SPEAKER_07 (01:12:49):
What do you think the future of midlife revolution
is and how this can spark thefuture for other generations?

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:57):
I I mean, I think that I think we are gonna see a
complete and utter shift inthings like women's healthcare,
um in the kinds of conversationsthat women are having, and quite
honestly, the the conversationsthat men are picking up on and
becoming participants in.
Um and I think that this shiftis gonna continue.

(01:13:20):
You know, if I if I go back tosort of where we started, you
can't ignore the numbers, right?
Um, you can't ignore the factthat women over 50 represent
such a huge part of the femalepopulation.
You can't ignore the spendingpower that women have and will
continue to have.
And I think we're starting tosee shifts, right?
We as women and men areeducating ourselves.

(01:13:43):
We are participating in theseconversations and we are
demanding the kind of care thatwe feel like we deserve.
And if we're not getting it,we're not gonna be dismissed.
We're not, we're not gonna begaslit.
If I'm not getting the support Ineed, I don't have to struggle.
I don't have to sit back and youknow start crocheting because

(01:14:04):
I'm retired.
I don't have to stop wearingtrucker hats.
I wrote a blog about truckerhats because I loved a good
trucker hat.
And somebody that I know, I woreone, and she said, I can't
believe you still wear those.
I said, What do you mean?
She's like, Well, those are forteenagers.
You need a full brim situation.
I'm like, the heck I do.
What?
Try again.

(01:14:24):
Try that again.
And so now I make it a point.
Every time I see her, I wear atrucker hat.
Um, so I think we're starting tosee this, you know, we're not
we're not standing behind theshadows and you know, in
cardigans and house dresses andslippers, and you can't ignore
it.
Like even my kids, now granted,I talk a lot about stuff here,

(01:14:46):
but even my boys, you know,they're getting exposed to words
like menopause, libido, um, youknow, perimenopause, hot
flashes, uh, you know, they'vethey've watched me, they've
watched me grind hard at acareer for 30 years.
They've seen me pick up a folderfor something that I had the

(01:15:08):
idea to do 20 years ago.
They've seen me take a risk andjust do the thing.
They're seeing all that.
And that's I I think that thesekinds of things are gonna carry
us forward and they're gonnacarry our the generation after
us forward because our kids,those of us who are around

(01:15:28):
people who are younger, they areseeing the motion, they are
hearing the words, they'refeeling the vibration changing,
the frequency changing.
And you can't tell but notabsorb that.

SPEAKER_07 (01:15:40):
Right.
I bet your kids um really enjoythose conversations.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:45):
They do.
You can you can imagine.
Sometimes uh, you know, I'llI'll just randomly walk through
the house and drop a word liketampon, and you know, just
because I like to hear areaction, or I don't care.

SPEAKER_07 (01:15:58):
Hey, you know what?
They're going to be so informedfor their partners later.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:02):
That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_07 (01:16:03):
That's great.
I think that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:06):
Well, I do always tell my kids, you know, I have a
lot of mantras.
My boys call them mantras, butum, one of them is, you know, if
you're gonna take a risk inlife, always bet on yourself.
And for me, I can't, and thething that I try to remember
with my kids in particular, Ican't just tell them the thing.
I have to show them the thing.
You know, you want to have theseconversations with your partners

(01:16:27):
and you want to be reallyexplicit and really clear, and
you know, consent is everything,and you want to not, you know,
all these things.
I can't just tell them that.
I have to show them.
So I have to be comfortable inthese things.
And man, for better or forworse, these boys are getting an
education.

SPEAKER_07 (01:16:43):
Yeah, it's the same thing with me and my kids.
I mean, I'm just not gonna tellthem to go out and work hard.
And I mean, I'm gonna grind, I'mgonna show you how to do it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:54):
So I'm gonna show you how to, yeah, and you're
gonna trust that I did it when Iwas in my 20s, you're gonna
trust I did it when I was in my30s, you saw that I did it in my
40s, and now you're gonna see mekeep going.
And it's not gonna stop until Idecide it stops.

SPEAKER_07 (01:17:09):
I have one last question.
If you could host a dream roundtable with three women who
inspire you, alive or not, whowould they be?
And what would you want to know?

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:22):
Okay, well, first I would um invite Jamie Lee Curtis
because that woman is the mostincredible example of um just
embracing life with zeroapologies, full throttle, arms
wide open, and the energy thatsays, I don't give an F about
anything.
Um, and she's a great mother,she's a great human, she cares

(01:17:47):
about humanity and she's got allthese causes, and she just walks
into a room and owns it.
So that would be one.
Um, I think the other one wouldbe my grandma Gemma, if I'm
honest with you, because while Ihad her in my life until I was
in my 30s, um and actually untilI was 40, she died just before I
uh like four days before I hadmy last son.

(01:18:09):
Um I did not appreciate herenough.
I don't think I asked her theright questions.
And I wish I wish I would havehad more conversations with her
about things that were veryspecific.
Um, so I I think that that wouldbe one.
Um, and then the third one, I'mcompletely right now enamored

(01:18:29):
with um Bozama St.
John.
She is the former CMO of placeslike Apple, uh Beats by Dre.
She worked at Netflix, PepsiCo.
And she is, I mean, the energythat she brings to not only her
and and the um the pride thatshe brings to the career that

(01:18:52):
she built, the personaladversities that she lived
through, the raising of herdaughter, and the work that
she's doing now.
Um, I think it's pretty badassif I say so.
Um, and I think she would be anamazing person to just sit and
talk to.
So it'd be Jamie Lee Curtis, um,my grandma Gemma, and uh Bozama

(01:19:15):
St.
John.
I think it'd be a prettyimpactful um uh sit-down.

SPEAKER_07 (01:19:21):
Wouldn't that be awesome to be able to?
Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_02 (01:19:25):
So good.
Like I have all the questions,and I just it's almost like you
want to absorb that energy andthose vibes just by osmosis.
Like just sit here and just likegive me all your juju.
Just I want to take it all andI've got all these questions for
you too.

SPEAKER_07 (01:19:39):
I would love to sit across from people that I really
admire and just soak ineverything.

SPEAKER_02 (01:19:45):
Everything, just a lot of the energy that I just
want to absorb and I want tocarry forward for my boys, for
my kids, um, for my sisters, um,for all my friends like you and
all the people that I've met.
Um, I just want to carry thatenergy forward for all of us.

SPEAKER_07 (01:20:02):
How can people get a hold of you and visit your
website?

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:06):
Yes.
Well, um, come toRealGirlsguide55.com, which is
on Substack.
Um, it's where I do all mywriting.
Um, I'm on Instagram, so realReal Girls Guide55.
Um, that's a fun place um tofind me.
Um, I have a website calledRealGirlsguide.com.
And um I'll be sharing moreabout the book as we get closer

(01:20:27):
to launching that on my socials.
And the other exciting thingthat we've got running now until
the end of October is a giveawayfor Menopause Awareness Month.
Um so if you subscribe to theSubstack and um follow me on the
socials and share and repost andtag, you'll be entered in for a
chance to win one of three glowup kits with some of my very

(01:20:49):
favorite favorite items.
There's no sponsorship, nobody'spaid me to do it, but it's just
I love um sharing things thatwork for me.

SPEAKER_07 (01:20:57):
That's so awesome.
And this has been amazing.
I just want to thank you so muchfor being on.
Well, Angela, thank you so verymuch for being here today.
This has been so much fun.
I'm going to read your Substackand your book that's coming out.
Thank you for reminding us thatmidlife is not a negative, but a

(01:21:19):
revolution.
It's the moment that we stopasking for permission and start
taking up space.
This is a different way to seeaging.
We are not like our parents'generations.
We are just not.
I mean, women are growing andevolving into powerful change
makers with purpose.
This is much greater than weever imagined.

(01:21:39):
For our listeners, if you are amidlife power woman, or if you
know one, please check outAngela's Substack, RG55, in her
community Real Girls Guide.
You will find powerful women,real stories, and women who are
rewriting their script on whatit means to thrive after 40.
Subscribe to Real Talk with Tinaand and by the way, share this

(01:22:01):
episode with someone who needsto be a part of this community.
We are not alone.
We are not invisible.
We are just getting started.
Midlife isn't the end of thestory.
It's the chapter where theheroine finally writes her own
plot.
Remember, there is alwayspurpose in the pain and hope in
the journey.
Thank you for joining Real Talkwith Tina and Anne, and we will

(01:22:23):
see you next time.

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:24):
Thank you for having me.

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