Navy SEAL to Social Warrior: Tom LaGrave's Mission for Youth

Tom LaGrave shares his remarkable journey from Navy SEAL to licensed clinical social worker, revealing how personal struggle and recovery led him to create Honor Bound Academy, a transformative program for youth transitioning to adulthood. Through his 35 years of experience working with adolescents, Tom has developed a powerful approach that teaches resilience, accountability, and personal responsibility while helping young people discover their purpose.

• Navy SEAL training taught Tom to "never quit" – a principle he's applied throughout life's challenges
• Hitting rock bottom with addiction after military discharge forced him to rebuild his life through recovery
• Working with youth in recovery settings showed Tom how young people could help him reconnect with emotions
• The Honor Bound Academy creates a modern rite of passage for 18-20 year olds through a 365-day live-in program
• Deliberately creating opportunities for failure teaches participants how to overcome challenges
• Building brotherhood and accountability through team experiences modeled after special forces training
• Using nature's elements (fire, earth, air, water) as healing tools and teachers
• Forgiveness, especially self-forgiveness, is essential to moving forward
• Today's societal division requires sacrifice from older generations to support youth
• Finding purpose through helping others creates healing for both parties

Visit thehonorboundacademy.org to learn more about Tom's program and his book "Special Welfare Social Warfare."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne.
Today we're joined by TomLaGrave, a former Navy SEAL
turned licensed clinical socialworker with over 35 years of
experience in biological,psychological and social
assessment.
After overcoming personalstruggles and completing a
recovery program, thomasdedicated his life to helping

(00:31):
others in the social workprofession.
He helped many populations, buthis experience with adolescence
led him to his personal mission, as he helps and advocates for
youth transitioning to adulthood.
He is the author of SpecialWelfare Social Warfare, a
powerful book addressing thefear and anxiety gripping our

(00:52):
nation.
In it, thomas speaks to youngpeople, offering a program to
inspire resilience and hopeduring challenging times.
I am so glad to explore yourincredible journey and vision
for empowering the nextgeneration.
This is very interesting to me.
Having worked in the helpingprofession as well and having
degrees in the field, I verymuch appreciate what you are

(01:15):
doing.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Thank you very much, it's a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, I'm very excited to have you on, but
first of all let's talk moreabout your title because that

(01:58):
was different for me.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Why?

Speaker 1 (02:00):
special welfare, social warfare, if we do not
create a rebalancing of thedynamic of those that have and
have not.
We're were embedded in theSpecial Operations Command,
working alongside Navy SEALs,army Rangers and other elite
forces.
You had so many chapters inyour life, is what I like to say

(02:24):
.
What a purposeful road you havetraveled.
What lessons did you learnalong the way that brought you
to writing this much needed bookand wanting to create this
program Honor Bound Society tohelp today's youth transition
into adulthood?

Speaker 2 (02:40):
You know what?
What I learned from my militarycareer is that you never quit,
you never give up.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
The origin of basic underwater demolition.
Seal training is a programwhere you're being challenged to
the umpteenth degree, and theeasiest thing that you can do in
training is quit.
The opportunity is in the formof a bell and if, at any time,

(03:09):
at any moment, you wish to quit,you go up to that bell, you
ring it, you take a helmet thatyou wear everywhere, put it down
on the ground and you're gone.
And it was that that I tookfrom that moment to where I sit
today in understanding.
Life is challenging, life isdifficult, but you, just you, do

(03:31):
not give up, you do not quit,you persevere.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
You know I've always taken life that way.
I have been hit over the head,knocked down, laid on the ground
, not feeling like I can't getup, and I just never saw that
option.
I figured it out every singletime.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, the thing with it is is if you do not have that
internal nexus or you were notraised in an environment that
that was supported was supported, it's a really difficult thing
to have missing in a tool beltthat in life is going to

(04:11):
challenge us at every turn.
So that component is criticalto my work with youth and
actually anybody that I interactwith from my private practice.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yeah, I was going to ask you how it has driven you
forward in your life and in yourwork.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
My military career started magnificently and ended
horribly.
Nine years after my completion,I ended up being discharged for
drug use, and it was at a timewhere I was discharged and sent
out into the civilian world thatI had never experienced,
because I entered the militaryat 19.
And I was lost, confused andincredibly addicted to alcohol

(04:54):
and drugs and did not know whereI was going to find a way to
survive.
And what I came down to was youalways go home.
I went home.
My parents said you know what?
You can't come here unlessyou're going to address your
issue with drugs and alcohol.
So I entered into a recoveryfacility and life started anew.

(05:19):
Life-changing experience where,instead of not giving up, not
quitting, I had to learn how toreverse it and say that I can no
longer use drugs or alcohol.
I have to quit using them.
So it was I had that insightand I just reversed the polarity

(05:39):
of understanding.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
You know you spent your life switching gears all
the time.
You know you had many pivottimes in your life and at 40,
you know, you got your degree.
Is that correct?
Yes, and then you were close to50, I think, or around 50, when
you got your social worklicense and you went for the
master's degree and everything.

(06:01):
I mean, you went a completelydifferent direction and I think
that that's really an importantlesson for many of us, because
we think that this is the waywe're supposed to go.
You know, and you know God orwho you call a power greater
than yourself.
Sometimes it's just they'releading us in a different
direction and we have to bewilling to go that route.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
It's called my will and the will of power greater
than myself, and which are yougoing to follow.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
It might not go well if you just keep saying no, I'm
going my way.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
All of it came about because of my inability to
understand how to live life.
I did a 90-day recovery facilityand that broke the physical
addiction, but I didn't know howto live life and what I came up
with is I needed to put myselfin the environment where I could
see what was in my youth that Ino longer could see or feel to

(06:58):
better understand.
So I started working with youth.
I took a job at an adolescentrecovery facility and I followed
up with a boys and girls cluband because of what those young
people did for me at that time,I committed myself to giving
back to that generation not thatthose individuals, but that

(07:19):
generation of youth that madelife for me livable again.
So that was the origin of howthat all came about and I found
that I had a talent.
Kids responded to me and theyshared things with me, and the
reason that I went to get theeducation was I did not want to

(07:40):
have a youth ask me a questionthat I didn't have an answer or
didn't know how to find theanswer.
So I went and bachelor's,master's license and board
certification, all because Idon't want to have not have an
answer for an individual thatcomes to me in a moment of
crisis.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
And I think that that's really an amazing trait
for you to be that open.
And, if I can say this, youknow, when I was getting ready
to do this podcast with you, Ireally felt like I was going to
come across this really toughcharacter.
That was like, you know, hey,you know, and be intimidating in

(08:21):
a way, but you are sosoft-spoken and you have the
kind of spirit that is veryattractive to, I would say,
youth.
You would be very welcoming totalk to.
Whereas you know, I watch ashow called Special Forces.
Sometimes I don't know ifyou've seen that show where

(08:42):
they're in your face to get youto change.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
And you don't seem that way at all.
You know what?
That goes back to the job thatI did within Special Forces.
I was a hospital corpsman, sothere was a medical aspect.
That that's what my job was.
Within the context and from thatperspective, you cannot come

(09:13):
across harshly, especially whensomebody is wounded and on the
ground and you are what makesthe difference between life and
death.
I'm here to look at and bringthe tools and talents that I
have to offer in a moment ofcrisis that others are
experiencing.
So, yeah, to come across asbold and in your face I have
that capacity.
I can do that, but I preferthis that you know what?
There's a humility to it.

(09:35):
I was a Navy SEAL who ended updestroying his career and then
was able to put life backtogether again, looking at from
the physical and understandingthat the change came from
understanding emotion andspirituality, and that was a

(09:55):
very difficult task for me, butin the end, it was my humility
of saying I don't know, help me.
That actually made thedifference of how my life now is
.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
That's so.
I've been in treatment myself,yeah, and it's that humbling
piece, that brokenness piece,that being willing to lay it all
out on the table and say I needhelp, and not think that you
know all the answers.
I used to be in the jails whereI was one of the chaplains with
the women, the women that werereally willing to change and put

(10:32):
it all out.
There were the ones that werecrying and willing to be broken
and willing to be as honest aspossible, and you even talk
about that and we'll get to thatmore later but you talk about
how important it is to betruthful and that is one of the
biggest ways to move forward.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Absolutely the humility of truth.
I don't have all the answersand I came to find in the
spiritual domain if you bring innegative, the world's going to
bring back to you that samenegative, and so the saying is
that a lie changes all the timeand the truth never does.

(11:16):
And I don't have to figure outwhat I said if I spoke the truth
.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Right.
It takes a lot less energy tobe able to just tell the truth
from the very beginning and,honestly, you can't have true
relationships with people onlies.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Especially with kids.
Kid catches you on a lie,you're done.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Now, where was the turning point in your life where
you said you know what, frombeing the person that's in
recovery to being the person whowants to help others and help,
you know help change people'slives, especially the
adolescents that have helpedchange you.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, see, the thing with it is my military career
required shutting down ofemotion because you're required
to do a job, and that is in war,to take life and to be able to
pull a trigger and take the lifeof another human being.
You have to.
The military is really good atat tamping down that so that you

(12:17):
do not hesitate.
And the issue with recovery andliving life in a society it
requires you to feel.
And from a male perspective,the last thing I want to do is I
don't want to feel.
Emotions are something that Iprefer not experiencing.

(12:39):
Cold and calculating works forme.
Hold and calculating works forme.
But if you're going to enterinto the world and you find
yourself an addict, alcoholic,you're going to have to get in
touch with those emotions and myinability to do that and in
recovery, saying that you haveto go back to your youth, that

(13:04):
the problems that you see, thatyou make choices by, began in
your youth, and so not beingable to feel, not being able to
remember, put me into anenvironment that I was going to
use again because I couldn'tfigure it out.
So, again, I decided to putmyself in the environment of
youth that were experiencingwhat I experienced at that age
that I could not remember.
And so adolescent recovery was13 to 17.

(13:28):
And I saw these kids be sopowerful in their ability to get
real, to share the damage, toexpress and be vulnerable.
I'm working there as anovernight counselor, I'm
watching and, in recovery, I amnot doing what I'm watching

(13:50):
these kids do and I'm feelingashamed and I'm feeling like a
fake because I'm watching kidscome to terms with it and I
can't do that.
And so that grace that theygave me made all the difference
in how I see life.
I am taking care of myintelligence, my ability to work

(14:10):
, to put a roof over my head,all those things I have the
ability to do.
What else is it that I have thatI can share, because in sharing
it it comes back in dividends.
I don't look to have you tellme how great I was because I
helped you.
As a matter of fact, I don'teven want to know that.

(14:31):
I want to do what I do and thenmove on and leave you to see
that you had that talent andability in you and all that I
did was help you see it withinyourself.
So that's answering thequestion in a long way around as

(14:52):
to why I went working withyouth, and then what I got from
them, and then what I havedecided to have my life mean in
giving back.
That's the circle there.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
One of the best things I was ever told when I
was living in my selfdestructive behaviors was to get
outside of myself and helpothers, and I can tell you that
was the best advice I've everreceived, because it worked and
I went into the helpingprofession and my behaviors that
I was in the middle of theygradually just went away because

(15:23):
I was surrounding myself moreand more with the positive and
my purpose was different, myoutlook was different and I just
wanted to help other peoplethat were getting ready or were
in the same life that I had beenin, and I wanted to keep them
from making the same mistakesthat I had done.
It's a scary world out thereand I think that we can always

(15:46):
use the things that we have beenthrough in order to help other
people, and I think that is ourpurpose.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
It again is a choice, and it was a choice that I
didn't have any trouble makingEverything you just explained
ditto, I see, as you said saidso that is really the driving
factor is to help another humanbeing in distress.
Does something for both humanbeings.
They get something and I guess,and regardless of how I'm

(16:17):
treated, I'm still going totreat you with dignity, because
all that I know is, if I matchyou, then I'm no better than you
.
If I offer you a counter of whatyou are.
It's going to hopefully giveyou pause to think about it, and
for me it comes back in havinga good day.

(16:39):
As simple as that.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
It changes the whole dynamics of the relationship too
, because I think that peopleyou know I have a friend of mine
that a lot of the people arenot treating her very well and
we've talked about how to handlethat and I think lots of times
when people do that, thatthey're just waiting for this
fight.
But if you come back to themwith kindness, it kind of like

(17:04):
throws them off and it's justlike wait a second, I was
waiting for you to be mean back.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah, and that's the part that gives pause, because I
am not going to respond to youin kind, and it took a long time
to be able to get that.
Again, we go back to thoseemotions.
As a male, I I don't want to.
I have come to understand thatthey are a saving grace because

(17:31):
I, if I go to anger andresentment, I end up um in a
place that I could do more harmto myself, let alone an
individual.
So I continually, over and overthe years, embrace the emotions
to today, where they are not asdifficult as they once were.

(17:54):
They're still a pain, but life,as I know it, is what it is,
because of my choice to pursue,what it is that emotions
represent and how they are thereto serve us.
And that was a lesson of alifetime.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
You have a way about you that I really think that you
can reach a lot of young people.
You've lived it and you're alsowilling to listen to them and
meet them where they are, whichI think is extremely important,
and I always say that we saythat all the time on the podcast
that we need to meet peoplewhere they are, because you
can't help them grow if youdon't do that.

(18:39):
You know we all had a difficulttime transitioning from
adolescence to adulthood.
I, too, found myself in a worldthat was much bigger than
myself, and it got me in a lotof trouble.
I always say that I'm blessedto be alive, but with you, it
brought you into the helpingprofession as we're talking
about, as I did as well, and Icommend you for transforming

(19:05):
your pain into healing and usingit to make a positive impact on
others.
Tell us more about this 365-daylive-in program designed to
push participants to theirlimits while guiding them toward
self-discovery and purpose.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
This is Honorbound Academy.
This is the nonprofit that Icreated.
Over the years of working withyouth, I came to understand the
component that was missing.
I wrote in the book Adolescentto Adulthood a guidebook, and I
told the story of my adolescenceto adulthood, and I've been
working with youth now for thepast 35 years.

(19:42):
I have seen three generationstransition from adolescence to
adulthood and I'm seeing thingsthat I had in my youth that are
no longer here, oh sure.
So what it came down to isHonorbound Academy is a rite of
passage, and that is ancient.

(20:03):
We all have had those in placethrough the eons, through the
millennia.
It's how it, you know, when wewere hunter gatherers, you took.
Youth at that time, were takenfrom their mother, if and this
is male, um, and then they wereput with the elders, and the

(20:25):
elders didn't tell them whatthey wanted them to do.
The elders showed them throughaction what was required of them
, and it's that rite of passagethat I'm not seeing today,
having an opportunity for ouryouth to be challenged, to see
that it's not easy to understandthat you are responsible for

(20:48):
your own self.
An excuse as to why you did athing is an excuse, and Honor
Bound Academy teaches to behonorable, to be honorable men,
not only with your peers, butwith your family and with anyone
that you come across.
You're taught the reason whyyou should be honorable, and in

(21:13):
a year there's a curriculum,there's phases, there's nature.
There's one component that ismissing more than any and that
is failure, the opportunity tolearn from your failures.
You look at my resume all thosesuccesses that's meaningless to

(21:34):
me.
What means something to me isthe negative things that I had
to overcome to create that.
I am a product of my failures,not my success.
Giving a youth that and in thatyou create the scenarios where
they're put into a situation andthey're going to fail.

(21:56):
Because I'm going to make surethey're going to fail and it's
not because I want them to, I'mgetting off on their failure.
I need them to see, in failing,how you overcome that, how you
pick yourself back up, how youmove on, how you understand that
is a right that you have andunderstand that anybody that

(22:18):
you're looking at, every humanbeing, fails, so it's okay when
you do it, and that educationalcomponent is.
The underlying critical pieceis to show them from failure how
to be successful.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
That is so beautiful.
You probably couldn't tell, butI actually even teared up when
you said that, because it hit meright where I have lived and I
cannot tell you how many lessonsI have learned along the way
from my failures.
And you know successes are,they're a moment, they're like a

(23:00):
blip, they're like, yay, I won.
And then you move on and it'slike not even that big of a deal
compared to having to workthrough things.
And it's the, it's the journey,the struggle, the getting over
those hurdles, it's the.
You know, and I don't likethings handed to me either.
I want to be able to earn it.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
And, and that's what you're talking about it's not
that you know you win a prizebecause you're breathing Yay,
you know you're doing great.
Everybody wins, and that's notthe way it should be.
Everybody needs to earn it, yes, and it's not enough Now.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
From birth, especially the first couple of
years, from birth, especiallythe first couple of years, a
baby is not talking, doesn'tunderstand that, but maybe is
watching and they are seeing.
And if you think that thoseyears don't matter, if something
goes wrong in those years,you're going to spend a lifetime

(24:00):
in distress.
That's why childhood is soimportant, at the very beginning
.
And I would offer too, when yougo, when your kids go from
adolescence to, or they go frompreteen to teen and adolescence,
that huge thing, right there isthe kids that I've worked with

(24:24):
all they don't want me to tellthem they're watching me, to
have them.
Show them that they watch andyes, you can say, until you're
blue in the face, do this dothat.
They're watching you.
Cause when you say, do this, dothat, doing this and doing that
, then the kids know and thatwas the household I grew up in

(24:46):
my father was do as I say, notas I do.
You know that contradiction was.
Well, why should I have to dothat when you don't?
And there's your conflict builtin.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, and our generation, we definitely grew
up like that, you know, we werethe quiet ones in the room grew
up like that, you know, we werethe quiet ones in the room.
The kids had to do what theirparents told them to do.
We had to, you know, cater toour parents and they really
could do whatever.
You know.
I mean, I also grew up in ahouse where there was a lot of

(25:21):
dysfunction, a lot, and I wasadopted as well.
So you know, you want to talkabout those critical years where
, in the very beginning, I wasthis baby in the foster system
and then you know there is somuch that happens to a person
when in their very young agesand I have three of my grandkids

(25:42):
that I've adopted and all threeof them went through so much
trauma, very, very young it isjust critical that we help these
kids and give them this toughlove and that's what you're
talking about.
I mean, it's a tough love andreally believing in them but at
the same time, expecting them tobe better and that's just it.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
And you do that by showing them what that means.
It's in your behaviors, in youractions, and so it is again the
reason I went with the agegroup 18, 19, and 20, at 17,.
parents are involved and thatjust doesn't work.
I can't have parents telling mewhich they have every right to
what I should do with their kidsat 18.
You can tell me I'll listen,I'll be respectful, but I'm not

(26:31):
going to do what you say.
And then, 21,.
You've begun your process.
So I had to start somewhere andI picked 18, 19, and 20.
Because of the education that Ihave, because of the experiences
from the education I have, Ican pretty much see how I can
use a one-year program toaddress issues that were

(26:54):
contrary in your youth.
I recognize when there wasabuse, I recognize all those
things and I understand how toadapt and give you ways to adapt
and overcome.
So that is the ideal age 18, 19, and 20.
And it's because I have fullability to understand what I'm

(27:16):
looking at and to counterregardless of what your baggage
you're bringing.
And there's always hope.
And there's always hope.
And that program, if nothingelse, leaves you feeling being
part of something that wasunique, a binding of a group of
individuals that will be friendsfor a lifetime.

(27:38):
And your internal was testedday in, day out, for 365 days
and you can now trust yourinstincts.
They're there.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
That is amazing.
You know, to be able to reachthe youth today and to be able
to change their path in life byexample, by leading by example,
is really it's just a greatconcept.
You talk about the walls thatwe build and the barriers that
often prevent us from reachingour goals, which I have done

(28:12):
many times in the past, but inyour program, Honor Bound
Academy, you emphasize the powerof choice and personal
responsibility in overcomingthese barriers.
You say choice is an absolute.
How do you help young peoplebreak through and make
meaningful choices and put thatinto action?

Speaker 2 (28:34):
The simple answer is that accountability.
There is accountability forevery one of your actions.
And remember, for my Bud'scareer I was in class 106.
I graduated in 1980, february29th, and the transition through
first phase, second phase,third phase in first phase the

(28:56):
instructors were your enemy.
In second phase they wereteaching you because this was
dive phase and you had to listenand understand that your life,
dive phase, was underwater.
And then third phase was landwarfare and the progression of
of student and instructor.

(29:17):
It changed as you progressedand you were never their friends
.
But you saw that once yougraduated and you became a SEAL
and you went to a command ofSEAL teams, that you all were
bound by an experience and sawthat it taught you how to

(29:39):
overcome and that you didn'tquit.
And it comes down to that inunderstanding how to implement
that into my program, where atthe beginning I'm not their
friends, where at the beginningI'm not their friends and at the
end I'm not their friends.
When they go out and becomeadults and they've begun their
life and they find themselves indifficulties, they get to come

(30:00):
back and the relationship isdifferent.
I'm no longer the director ofthe program, I'm Tom.
I'm the one Tell me what'sgoing on, let's figure it out.
And so when you go in a one-yearprogram, I have the ability to
do so many things because Iwatched what was done to me
through a program that is calledBasic Underwater Demolition,

(30:22):
seal training and all the waysin which the nuances have to
occur so that trust is built inthe end and you see that if you
do something wrong you should bedisappointing yourself, but you
will know from a year thatyou're disappointing the staff
because we're giving youeverything that we have.

(30:44):
We want you to succeed.
And if you're giving it halfmeasures that availed to nothing
and there will be feelings ofthat, I don't do guilt, but I
hold you accountable and I'm notgoing to say it's okay until
you prove otherwise.
And again, 365 days is a longtime and a lot of stuff you get

(31:08):
to do, and especially when youknow what you're doing.
So you're here.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
That's amazing.
I think that there's a lot oflack of accountability these
days and a lot of sweeping underthe rug and it's okay, baby,
you know and catering to kids.
There is so much going on inthe world these days you know
COVID-19, social media, changingsocietal norms that is going on

(31:33):
.
What do you see as the biggestchallenges that these youth face
and how does your programaddress these challenges?
Besides accountability, I mean,what else can you do in that
program to meet?
I mean, I've got three kidsthat are COVID kids, you know,
and the social media is almostimpossible.

(31:54):
So what are the things that youdo in your program?
Do you like strip their phones?
Do you like strip their socialmedia?
Do you like?
What do you do?

Speaker 2 (32:02):
It's it's here.
There's nothing you can do, solet's use it in a beneficial way
.
Anything and everything thatcomes out of my mouth is
researched, so this thing thatcomes to you in the form of that
, this is a wonderful tool to beat your disposal, to have

(32:23):
somebody say something and youcan find out if it's the truth
in a very short period of time.
So to answer the question isI'm not going to take it away.
That's a losing battle.
Okay, what I'm going to do isshow you how to use it in a
productive way, and it also canaid.

(32:45):
You know, you can go on to Siriand tell this thing what you
want it to do.
But languages to understand anindividual, you understand their
culture.
To understand a culture, youhave to understand the language,
and this is a tool that I'veused, that I can use.
I can speak into it in Englishand it'll come out in Spanish or

(33:06):
it'll come out in Russian.
It allows you to be there toaid others.
Remember, are you a taker orare you a giver?
These are things that need tobe taught.
Again.
In a program, all of that'saddressed while you get to keep
your phone.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
How do you teach them to be givers?

Speaker 2 (33:29):
You put it into a scenario that the way a SEAL is
created, we're not individuals,we're teams and there are
platoons.
That's 14 people.
Now.
Rangers are different as GreenBeret are different.
All of the special forces aredifferent in their accumulation.
But you take groups of three,five, seven, 14, 25, and you

(33:54):
mold them together and you seethat in my operational years in
the real world I am not going tolet my fellow brother seal die,
I'm going to catch the bullet.
And okay, everybody feels thesame way.
So we're literally knockingeach other out of the way to

(34:16):
catch the bullet because I don'thave to go home.
You do.
That's that was instilled in mefrom that military career that
you know what the team comesfirst.
And how do I implement that?
It's a bonding.
There are rites of passage inthere.

(34:37):
There are various phases thatinstill how you come to
understand your place in theworld, your place with your
fellow friends, family and theworld at large what you owe it.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
So you create a brotherhood in a sense, where
you know you have to worktogether and it's not well, I
mean the cliche or whatever youwant.
There's not an I in team.
I mean where you have to worktogether and come out stronger,
because here's the thing is,it's family.
It's not an I in team.
I mean where you have to worktogether and come out stronger.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Because here's the thing, it's family, it's not
family, the Alpha and the Omega.
I ran a boys and girls club.
I was the big brother, I wasn'tthe father, they got fathers,
they got mothers.
So I'm looking at, I'm creating.
In that four-year took over umParadise Valley, south San

(35:31):
Francisco Boys and Girls Club.
I had 59 youth.
Four years later I had 440.
That's amazing, because it wasa place to come, that you were
treated like family and I'mgoing to expect you to act like
a family member, okay, and holdyou accountable.
And so I learned that that isdoable.
When kids know that you'reauthentic, that your word is

(35:55):
your bond, they respond, and soit's not rocket science.
The whole thing is I'm creatingbrother, brother, sister,
sister, family relationshipsthat you'll have for a lifetime.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
So it's showing people how to react and respond.
Within a family, I mean there'sgoing to be dysfunction and so
that's where there's growth.
So I mean that's where youlearn how to get through those
dysfunctional times and how tocome out on the other end closer
.
Yes, because I mean we live ina world of dysfunction there's

(36:32):
no doubt about it, and there'sso much division right now and
it's being able to figure outhow to come closer together with
dysfunction.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, see, now the book is introduced in, because
I'm telling a story and I'mlooking at the generations.
I you know, swat, yes, you dothat Weakness, opportunity,
threat, and I looked at eachgeneration, from the greatest
generation to the silentgenerations, to my generation,

(37:02):
boomer, to X, y, z, and inlooking at that, there is the
understanding that somebody'sgoing to have to give Bottom
line.
And as I'm sitting here at theend of my journey, I'm nearing
the end of my work world.
I, like so many, will have towork until it's all said and

(37:24):
done because I didn't investcorrectly and there's so many
others like that.
But the thing with it is iswho's going to make the
sacrifices for our youth?
Right now, the country's in no,has no idea what's coming and it
scares people and it angerspeople and once it actually
occurs, the nation is going tobe really angry and that second

(37:48):
portion of class warfare, socialwarfare if that occurs, then we
have lost, because the fact ofthe matter is, everything that
we need is here, if there arethose who are willing to
sacrifice.
So I looked at the greatestgeneration and what they could
offer the silent generation andwhat they could offer the

(38:09):
boomers, and what we can offer,and I'm seeing these three end
ones, or these three oldest ones.
We owe this generation, we havecreated a debt, and that's
where I said the disparity inwealth is going to create civil
war, is going to create civilwar, and if we don't get a hold
of that and what it requires toget a hold of is sacrifice the

(38:34):
generations right now, nogeneration is making the
sacrifice, nobody wants to giveit up and we're going to leave a
world of what to our youth?
A world that is becoming awarming world, a world where
there is now fires that rage andhurricanes.

(38:55):
And who's going to stop andgive?
And at this stage, that's me.
I'm doing this.
I wrote this book so that Ican't guilt you and I'm not
going to guilt you, but I knowthe dirty secrets of the
greatest generation, the silentgeneration, and my generation.
I know the lies we've lived byand I'm just going to share

(39:18):
those truths and let our kidsknow what we really are.
And in doing so, in giving asI'm going to give, I hope others
will see that there's a reasonthat we're doing it.
We're not doing it to be nicepeople.
We're doing it because ouryouth need us to do it.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
Yeah, you do mention where it's a country that's on
the verge of collapse.
Yep, and it is very scary timescollapse, and it is very scary
times.
I mean there's times where Ijust have to turn off the TV
because I just feel so muchdivision within our country.
And there was somebody who saidto me, and it was pretty

(39:59):
powerful, that you know ourgovernments, they lead us with
anger and fear and it needs tobe led with information and
empowerment, and those are verydifferent things in how we can
even handle our youth.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
Whoever shared that with you is incredibly
insightful.
So the fact of the matter is, asociety to work requires a
certain degree of fear.
That fear brings human beingstogether.
Sure, what we have today isfear run amok, and beyond all

(40:40):
that we see, follow the money.
You know what that's a chapter.
You know what that's a chapter.

(41:11):
I shared that the money isincorrect and that money being
unbalanced is benefiting a veryfew, and those very few love
every minute of this societythat we're in, because they have
their walls created, they havetheir abilities to withstand.
As long as we allow this fearto be percolated and not look at
what's really going on andasking that question what is
this all about?
Then we are condemned to bedriven into war.
As simple as that.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Yeah, there needs to be a lot more transparency going
on.
And I know, within my ownhousehold, you know, if we can,
just, you know, make it on amore micro level where, within
my own household, fear and angerthere is.
You know, we used to be afraidof our parents.
This generation is not afraidof us, they're just not.

(41:50):
It doesn't matter what you do,they're just not.
So there is a healthy fear.
There is nothing wrong withhaving a healthy fear, but
there's too much fear going onand I can feel it.
Yeah, it really is.
Now you have a quote fromTheodore Roosevelt that really

(42:11):
resonated with me.
I like that one.
Yes, me too.
It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how
the strong man stumbles orwhere the doer of deeds could
have done them better.
The credit belongs to the manwho is actually in the arena,
whose face is marred by dust andsweat and blood, who strives

(42:33):
valiantly, who errs, who comesshort again and again because
there is no effort without errorin shortcoming, but who does
actually strive to do the deeds,who knows great enthusiasms,
the great devotions, who spendshimself in a worthy cause, who,
at the best, knows, in the end,the triumph of high achievement

(42:57):
and who, at the worst, if hefails, at least fails while
daring greatly, so that hisplace shall never be with those
cold and timid souls who neitherknows victory nor defeat.
This is beautiful to me.
How does this quote speak toyou and your life, and with the
youth who you want to reach?

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yeah, it's as simple as that.
The whole saying is you knowwhat?
We're put into a world for acertain amount of time.
Live life, live it to itsfullest, make mistakes, do
foolishness, go and be insane.
These are all the things thatright now, everybody is pulling

(43:45):
back at a time where we shouldmove into this.
The issues with fear and angerthey are dangerous, but the fact
of the matter is it's a humanbeing that is angry and fearful
and on the other side of theshoulder, you know the good
angel, the bad angel.
If you respond in kind, angerbecomes more anger.

(44:10):
But if you alter it and seethat maybe the person's having a
bad day and are you okay andyou know what, there's a safety
factor.
I don't want you to get shot,stabbed or punched, but also
take a step back and say do wereally need to go here?
And that human being is inthere.

(44:31):
And I have faith in humanitythat we will find just that, our
humanity, and the book issharing that.
These are where I think theproblems are.
This is the issues with ouryouth.
This is my suggestion, what wecould do with our youth.
This is what I'm looking at,that I'm willing to give, and

(44:53):
these generations, each of youcan do this too.
What?

Speaker 1 (44:58):
do you say?
I also like how it's like getin the rain.
You know, don't live outside ofthe rain, get in the rain.
If you fail, you fail andthat's fine.
Like you said at the beginningof the show, it's your failures
that you've learned from, morethan your successes, and there

(45:18):
is nothing wrong with being onthat ground and figuring out how
to get back up Exactly.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
All that it is is that's just it.
The getting up and brushingyourself off is the lesson that
we can share, you and I, aswe're saying, and anybody
listening we've been on theground.
You've got to know that.
We've been on the ground.
You're looking at us nowbecause we stood back up and I'm

(45:47):
saying I'm going to get knockeddown again, but I also will get
up again.
So these words are powerfulbecause of they're looking at us
, understanding the truth.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
So you know, I do have a kind of a different
question about this part of itbecause you know, I learned
young, as an adopted, abused kid, that if I was going to make it
in this world I had to rely onmyself.
I had to figure it out.
It was like I'm getting up.
I was also.

(46:21):
I'm autistic, I have otherdisabilities, and I was told I
probably wouldn't graduate highschool the traditional route,
and I ended up getting amaster's degree by teaching
myself how to learn.
Now what I did was along theway, from the very beginning.
There was no option for me notto fight and keep getting up.

(46:41):
That just was the way it wasgoing to be.
But I think that maybe there aresome people you know they have
a lot of handouts.
A lot of things are very easyfor them and it's very difficult
for them to understand that.
You know you can do thisyourself.
You don't have to have somebodyhelp you up.
You need to figure it out andhow to get up on your own.

(47:02):
So I mean, for some of theseyouth that you might be coming
across that have not really hadto have that fight within
themselves, how do you teachthat?
Can you teach it, or do youthink that it's just something
that's within us?

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Now I do come across that, as a matter of fact, last
night I had a session with anindividual and they are—every
time I offered a suggestion, Iwas given an excuse and the
thing with it is.
I don't get to you know, get youangry.

(47:38):
I don't get to tell you whatI'm thinking.
I'm a clinician.
I need to find a way to getthrough that and have you hear
me.
And it's challenging.
There are going to be the youthtoday that there's just nothing
I'm going to be able to do,there's nothing anybody's going
to be able to do.
They're just not going tofigure it out.

(47:59):
There are those that you know Iwill never give up on a kid,
but I will also say when you'reready to give me something other
than an excuse, come back then.
Right now I need to leave youto go back out into the world to
learn a few more lessons, thatwhat you're doing is what is

(48:23):
creating this problem.
And for you to get a differentresult, you have to change and
those suggestions at some point.
Hopefully, the individual willlearn.
But to your point, no, I can'tsave the world.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
Well, I always say to my own kids if you want better,
you have to do better.
You know, if you do bad, youget bad.
If you do good, you get good.
And that really is very true.
I mean, if you said change, ifyou want different, you got to
change.

(49:01):
It's that simple, you know.
You also had another quote thatI loved in your book from
Joseph Campbell about followingyour bliss and the doors will
open, and I wish that I wouldhave learned this a lot younger.
So I think that it's a reallygreat gift that you're giving
these young people to be able toto know this here's.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
the thing is that joseph campbell became a hero
because, uh, he passed away inin 89, 90, something like that,
but he left, uh, a body of workin books, but in in videos he.
Bill maher did an interviewwith him and he was amazing

(49:44):
Because, look, the very essenceof human is we're bound in myth.
In myth, in ancient times,where there were no religions,
there were magical, mythicalmoments, and Joseph Campbell
embodied that in a way that hesaid that term.

(50:06):
You know, when you have noanswers for the individual, you
will still always have one thatyou will offer in saying goodbye
, and that is follow your bliss.
That.
What does that mean?
Whatever it is in life thattrips your trigger, that sets

(50:27):
you in desire, that makes yourblood boil, the hairs on your
back stand up, that's it.
Follow that, go after that.
There is your.
That's what will bring meaningto your life.
And he said it.
And, as I've shared, there arethose that I can't get to and

(50:47):
I'm not going to be able to,that I leave with them in the
end.
Then, well, you know what?
I want you to follow your bliss.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
And we're not really great at everything.
You know we are, and that'sjust the way it is.
But if we follow what ourpassion is, the doors will open.
But you have to be.
I have a vision board and Ilike kind of like you know, I
have it for me because I reallydo want to accomplish these
things and I try really hard tomanifest things, and you know,

(51:18):
but it also comes with a lot ofhard work.
It just isn't like I want this,I want this Okay, it's just
going to fall in my lap.
You know it's, it's an action.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Yeah, but you know what?
I'm taking you back to yourkids.
Your kids are watching you andthey you're leaving them the

(51:48):
greatest gift you can give themthose words.
Words are powerful.
They can help heal wounds.
Words are amazing, but youractions and how you've lived
your life, that your kids arewatching.
You're setting an example inaction, not in words.
The words are important, don'tget me wrong, but what is most
important is what you do and, inyour case, what you've done

(52:09):
your kids, I don't doubt theylove you.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Well, we have our moments, yeah, yeah, but they're
all free, autistic and have alot of disabilities and trauma
and different things, and sowhat I do give them is I don't
allow them to use those asexcuses.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Ah, there you go too.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
So that's what we really try to instill in our
family is trying to really thinkoutside of the box and try to
figure it out anyway.
Now, you, you know talkingabout this.
We all have different sets oftools, and when I was in
treatment, you know they tellyou to change people, places and
things and get a new tool beltbasically and so you know you
refer to that having a differentset of tools.
So could you talk more aboutyour tools and what you will be

(53:07):
using, those kinds of tools thatyou'll be using in the program?

Speaker 2 (53:11):
There's several types of tool belts.
My own personal ones are truthand never giving up, never
giving in.
When I don't have an answer,asking for help, when I need
therapy, I go to therapy.
Yeah, so sorry that you feelthat way and see that way,

(53:45):
because the tool that therapyoffers me and that I offer in
therapy are ways to see life,because every one of us has
talents and abilities.
I don't have all the talentsand I don't have all the
abilities.
So when that happens, I'velearned that the emotions say
you're not going to figure thisone out, and then the
requirement is to do somethingabout it because I'm not going

(54:07):
to quit.
That means I got to go ask forhelp and that's my tool belt.
And right now, uh, I learned asa clinician working with the
military, that seven-year periodas a military family life
consultant, I saw the my way ofdoing therapy is cognitive
behavioral therapy.

(54:29):
It's ground, it's works, it'swonderful, but I'm looking at
service members coming back fromwar who have seen death and
their PTSD is off the charts,and I saw a clinician do this
thing called eye movementdesensitization reprocessing and
I was like, wow, I want to dothat.
And the individual told me thatif you need to be taught how to

(54:54):
do it, you need to go to schoolfor it, and the reason that's
that is because if you do itwrong you can do damage.
So I have gone back to schooland am now a certified eye
movement desensitizationreprocessing.

(55:14):
But the other ones that are onthe horizon are right now we
have the ketamine, we have theMDMA and we have the psilocybin.
We have the MDMA and we havethe psilocybin.
Now, as a clinician that issanctioned by the Board of
Sciences in the state ofCalifornia, I can't go there.
I can't do that because they'renot legal.
But tools are incredible formales and females who are

(55:44):
experiencing PTSD and it's evenenlightening, beyond what you
would have got, what you will goand use it for.
They're truly eye-opening.
So the belts, the tools mypersonal ones are that I'm
truthful, honest, I am bound bythat the clinical CBT, emdr.

(56:11):
But these others are on thehorizon and when they come,
they're going to make such adifference to women who've been
raped, men who've been raped,soldiers, sailors, airmen,
marines.
That is what I have mosthopeful for, because there are

(56:31):
such problems with the mentalhealth of so many people in our
society, but especially ourformer veterans.
Suicide rate is there's 19veterans that are going to kill
themselves today and between 13and 23,.

(56:55):
Nobody wants to know thatsuicidal statistic.
So you know what?
Because society hides it,because they don't want to look
at it.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
They're suffering in silence.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
They're suffering in silence.
They're suffering in silence.
And if I have affinity, I wentin the military in 1979.
That's four years after Vietnam, and everything that taught me,
all the instructors, everythingthat went into creating my
military career, was Vietnam eraveterans.
And the Vietnam era veteran isstill.
You know, they're survivors.

(57:22):
You want somebody that willtruly be awe-inspiring.
The Vietnam era veterans thathave made it and still are alive
, they are to be told bravo Zulu, job well done.
And so the majority of veteransare hurting in silence and

(57:47):
deserve everything that theyhave given to us and our country
.
And the rare few are alwaysgoing to be there and they
matter too.
But it's the numbers that rightnow of suicide are just
staggering.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
That is so absolutely sad and devastating to our
country and we need to do better.
I don't know.
Do you know what we could do asa country in order to be better
in this situation?

Speaker 2 (58:22):
Yeah, figure out where the money is and put it
where it belongs.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
Because the veterans need more money.
No, their mental health.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Everybody needs more money.
The thing with the matter isthe VA is doing everything in
their power to be there for theveteran and you know they are
trying.
They're noble and honorable intheir attempt.
The hardships that we'reexperiencing.
If you were to rebalance themonetary equation, so many of

(58:57):
the issues fall away.
And in the book I take it fromA, b, c.
I can't do it alone, but Iunderstand what needs to be done
and I'm here sharing with youthat.
In the book are offers ofsuggestions and if nothing else,

(59:18):
I'm here and I'm never going togive up and I am advocating for
youth at every turn.
That's the end of my journey.
Role is to advocate for youngAmerica.
We're at a critical time.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
Yes, we are In your program.
I noticed that you have itdivided into elements fire,
earth, air and water and Iwanted to know the significance
of these and how they guideparticipants through the journey

(59:55):
of self-discovery.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
They're all nature and as a clinician, I'm very
good at what I do.
The greatest clinician I'veever met is nature itself.
So for me, being a former NavySEAL, the ocean, water, is my
domain.
Water speaks to me, water iswhen I'm having the difficulties

(01:00:22):
.
I emerge myself in waterbecause in that way I find the
gifts that nature provides.
And there are differences.
You know what Deserts there are, mountains, you know, know all
of these things?
Air I haven't in years, butjumping out of an airplane at 10

(01:00:49):
000 feet is, uh truly aspiritual event, because there
comes a point where you canchoose do you want to pull the
cord or do you not?
Wow, and that is arepresentation of the air.
The water Fire is, firecleanses.

(01:01:11):
So as the youth come to me, Ilearned from the Boys and Girls
Club that no two kids are alikebut they're all the same club,
that no two kids are alike butthey're all the same.
And where they're all the sameis they want to believe in magic
and they want to be challengedand they want the excitement and
they want to be heard.
And so funneling it throughnatural environments is a way to

(01:01:38):
bring a calm, because you canteach survival in each of those,
and they are everything thatany human being needs.
We always.
If you ask somebody what's yourfavorite environment to be in,
what's your favorite naturalenvironment, everybody has an

(01:01:59):
answer what's yours?

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Well, I like the beach, but I also like the
forest.
I grew up with woods behind me,and one of my favorite things
to do was climb the trees and bein the trees.
It felt like.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
I was one with nature .
Oh, thank you, you just toldwhat I'm trying to share.
Yeah, you nailed it Because'mtrying to share, yeah, that one,
you nailed it Because that'sexactly what it is Nature
rejuvenates, it does, and so,from my perspective, six years
ago, I gave my TV away.

(01:02:36):
I don't have a TV.
I don't.
I need to be up on certainthings.
So I I'm aware, but I don'twatch TV.
I go out, I live in a verynatural environment with trees
and, um, it balances me, it'swhat I use.
That we spoke of tool belts,that's that's one of my tools on

(01:03:01):
the tool belt is nature,forests, when I am nature, and
it's beauty and you can get backoutside you know, that really

(01:03:26):
helps depression.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
It really helps lift the spirit and you become one
with God.
And it is.
It is.
It's an amazing thing, becauseyou know why?
Well, partly is because natureis much bigger than us, and it's
that connection with somethingthat is much bigger than us and
our problems.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
Yes, it is.
So, you see, as difficult as itis, as troubling as it is, as
angry and dangerous as it is,there's still hope.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Yeah, there really is .
Now you also.
You talk about believing inyourself, trusting yourself and
forgiving yourself in your book.
Would you say that forgiveness,both for yourself and others,
was a critical step in your ownpersonal journey?

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Yeah, I was able to forgive others and ask others
for forgiveness.
That's the beginning ofrecovery.
Working with youth, seeing howthey responded to me, I came to
determine years into my sobrietythat I had asked for

(01:04:38):
forgiveness from everyone and Ihad forgiven everyone except for
me, and the most profound thingthat me, as a human being, can
give myself is the forgiveness.
I was discharged from SEAL Team1 and it destroyed me.

(01:05:00):
It was my identity In my mind.
I had betrayed sacred trust andthere was no going back and
there was no way to fix that,and so I began my sobriety, and
so I began my sobriety and Ibegan working with youth and by

(01:05:23):
their actions I saw the healingof forgiving and came to
understand at some point thatI've done it all except for I
got to forgive me, and in doingthat, the circle came around
Life again right now is worthliving and because of the youth

(01:05:47):
that provided, that was part ofthat, it is my gratitude and
giving back for the rest of mylife.
That comes from just what Ishared.
Comes from just what I shared.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
That just shows how powerful forgiveness is.
It is so powerful, I mean, it'sso much easier to wear the
badge of shame than to wear thebadge of forgiveness, because
you know other people can lookand say, well, you did this, and
so it's hard to forgiveourselves sometimes, I think,

(01:06:22):
because other people arereminding us also or maybe you
know the consequences of whathappened also remind us of what
happened.
But I think when I worked inthe jails, I think one of the
biggest things also there wasthe forgiveness you know I mean,
many of them had really createda pretty difficult shadow

(01:06:47):
behind them that you know thatthere was not a good rippling
and that's really hard toforgive yourself, but it's not
productive and it will not.
It'll keep you from movingforward.
So I think that one of theplaces that we all need to begin
when we're going through someof these things is at a place of

(01:07:09):
forgiveness for ourselves.
I think that that's beautiful,no matter how hard it is.
I mean, yeah, we've all donethings that we could say, well,
that's just, I'll never forgivemyself for that, and I've
actually said that to myself.
And how productive is that?
Yeah, well, I really want tothank you, tom, for being on.

(01:07:29):
Can I ask can you share with ushow people can help you with
this program, how people can geta hold of you?

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
This is the book Special Welfare, social Warfare,
adolescence to Adulthood, aguidebook, a story of each
generation's transition, whatwas and what is and what's
missing, along withredistributing the wealth,
otherwise social catastrophe.
And I have a nonprofit that'scalled Honor Bound Academy that

(01:08:01):
you can reach atthehonorboundacademyorg.
Again, that'sthehonorboundacademyorg, where
you can find all that we'vetalked about the book, along
with blogs and all the variouswhat is it?
My social media platforms where, in one stop at

(01:08:24):
thehonorboundagenturyorg, youcan go into my entire life and
purpose.

Speaker 1 (01:08:32):
Well, it's amazing because you have completely
dedicated your life to purposeand I think that that is so
important.
And you know, as we get older,I think that some people think,
well, you know what's my purpose?
I don't, you know.
And you know there is no endinguntil we take our last breath,

(01:08:56):
and even then some, hopefully,our shadow still continues in a
positive way.
But I mean, you know, I reallybelieve that we always have a
purpose on this earth and thatwe are to use everything that
we've gone through as steppingstools that have gotten us here,
that help us get you know, passthat on to other people so that

(01:09:19):
they can help in their journey.
So, because we are doing thisjourney together.
So thank you so much forsharing your journey and
insights with us, tom, your workis inspiring to me and I know
it will be with our listeners.
It's been a pleasure having youon Real Talk today.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
It's been great.
Thank you for all theopportunities you've offered.
So to everybody else, followyour bliss.