September 10, 2025 • 59 mins
Ron Souers joins us to explore how ADHD minds can transform perceived weaknesses into remarkable strengths through self-discovery, mindfulness, and acceptance. We examine the experience of navigating a neurotypical world with a neurodivergent brain and uncover practical strategies for harnessing ADHD's unique capabilities.
• ADHD is not a disorder to fix but a different way of processing that offers unique strengths
• Traditional workplace systems often fail neurodivergent individuals by forcing conformity rather than accommodating different thinking styles
• Masking ADHD symptoms requires double the energy, leading to burnout and mental health challenges
• Mindfulness-based strength practice helps identify and leverage your natural character strengths
• The connection between ADHD, depression and addiction stems from impulsivity and emotional dysregulation
• Movement breaks, journaling, grounding techniques and visual goal-setting provide practical ADHD management strategies
• Workplace accommodations like headphones and additional breaks are reasonable requests protected by law
• Self-acceptance and understanding the root causes of behaviors reduces shame and builds confidence
Visit youradhdguy.com to get a free e-copy of Ron's Self-Discovery Journal for Adults with ADHD or learn about his coaching program, the Connection Blueprint.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
Today's episode is one I'vebeen itching to do.
As someone who lives with ADHD,I know what it's like walking
through a world built withrulers and straight lines when
your brain is a kaleidoscope.
But what if the very thingsthat make us feel broken are
actually the things that make usbrilliant?
My guest today is someone whogets it on every level.
(00:31):
Ron Sowers is an ADHD advocate.
The voice behind Don't Mind Me,I Just have ADHD dives into the
experience of living with ADHD,addiction and depression, and
he's the author of theSelf-Discovery Journal which I
have right here because Iordered it for adults with ADHD.
Yeah, he's a consultant whohelps businesses create
(00:54):
neurodiverse, friendlyenvironments and he supports
employees navigating ADHD withtools, compassion and real-world
solution.
And he helps ADHD individualswho struggle with depression and
addiction and help discoverpurpose on the other side.
And he just might be a rappertoo, from what I understand.
So Ron is proof that us ADHDersmight have a hard time with our
(01:18):
to-do list, but we can haveexecutive dysfunction and still
execute our purpose.
So thank you so much, ron, forbeing here today.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well, thank you, that was very flattering and you
know it's an honor to be hereand share this space with you.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And you've clearly turned your ADHD into a mission
and a passion for helping others, but I'd love to go back to the
beginning.
And a passion for helpingothers, but I'd love to go back
to the beginning.
What was life like beforepre-diagnosis and what led you
to understand that your brainwas different and that you
needed help navigating the world?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, it was quite the journey.
The first time that I realizedthat I may have ADHD was like I
was about to get fired from myjob and, you know, I was like
running into stuff, I couldn'tslow down.
I um was damaging companyproperty, injuring myself, and I
(02:16):
was, you know, unfortunately, Ihad people in my life that were
telling me that you know, maybeyou need to seek help about
this, like they were alreadytelling me you need to slow down
my whole life and I justthought they just didn't know
what they were talking about.
And so this finally, I finallystarted to listen.
Out of fear of losing my job, Iwent and saw my primary care.
(02:40):
In that instance, you know, Iwas like I'm desperate for help,
like I need, I can't slow down,I've tried everything, I'm not
trying to lose my job, I wasjust just everything on the
table and she kind of didn't,but she still gave me a list of
(03:06):
psychologists and therapists.
So I went through that list andI was like just calling and
calling and just wanting thathelp, like, and I finally was
able to meet the therapist thatI'm working with today and, um,
yeah, in that journey, like oneof the first things that he said
to me was like yeah, you haveADHD, but this can be used as a
(03:29):
strength.
And in that moment I was like Ifelt broken.
I felt like.
I spent my whole life thinking Iwas normal, that I was
intelligent, that I was smartand you know.
But there was like so muchevidence, you know, for the ADHD
.
So it was like this middleground of somewhat accepting it
and somewhat denying it.
And, you know, because there'dbe days where I just didn't feel
(03:52):
like I had it and was beginningwhich was to write down your
thoughts Because I had troubleat work just standing around,
you know, because I felt likeyou need to be productive, I
would get bored really easilyand like I would get upset when
(04:14):
other people were talking, whenwe could be doing work, and this
wasn't the place for that, likefor this conversation, and,
like you know, so I would getlike angry about not being able
to work and, frustrated, I wouldget a lot of anxiety.
So what he said is like justbring in a journal into work and
like write out your thoughts ordraw your thoughts or draw like
(04:38):
or draw pictures and like youknow, that really helped because
it was like it helped me tounderstand that you know these
thoughts need to come out andthere it's better for them to
come out on paper than for me tolike actually say them.
You know so.
And one of the other thingsthat he taught you know, told me
was like if you drive, likewhen you're going to work, like
(05:02):
you're going to be taken thelong way, like when you're going
to work, like you're going tobe taken the long way.
So I actually took thatliterally and went the long way
to work, which ended up beingvery therapeutic, you know, and
helped me to gradually slow down, like yeah, I do, you know, it
still pops up from now and again.
But one of the biggest thingsthat has really helped me was
(05:22):
further along, when he was likesaying question the thoughts or
put like something in.
There is like if I'm in a rush,I usually ask myself what's the
hurry?
What's you left early Like whyare you rushing to work still?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, that's a really great question.
I think that I do that too.
I mean, I know that I do.
Every single thing that I do islike I have to be busy, I have
to be doing 10 things at once,and I don't understand when
other people say that they'rebored or you know they are
standing around.
I'm the exact same way, so it'sjust, I guess, a part of who we
(05:59):
are, but I don't know.
You use the word.
You know that you weren'tnormal.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Is that the way you really see it Is that we's not
going to just tell me like nope,you have to stay, you're not
good.
Like he's just going to allow meto do what I need to do.
You know, that's that's what,you know, I find really about
him is like he's like more aboutlistening to the patient and
not prescribing medication.
(07:02):
You know, even though when I,when I went back because I had
taken on a new role and I wasdriving a forklift and and
moving, transporting dangerouschemicals around, and I had
ended up, you know, doing thesame pattern and like going too
fast, hitting, I hit, like Itook out a reinforcement pole, a
(07:24):
concrete reinforcement pole,and like punctured drums with
the fork tips and like withchemicals in it, and like it was
just, it was a mess and it wasa lot of stress, um added stress
onto what I was doing and andso I went back to see him in the
middle of that process sayinglike yeah, how can I slow down,
(07:45):
like I really need this, likeI'm taking this ADHD seriously,
I haven't fixed it.
Like it's not something thatyou know that.
I've done.
I've looked at it like in morelong term.
I need to invest in this.
Above me while I was pullingthe forks back down, and even
(08:07):
though it wasn't like thatsignificant to me, it was a sign
.
It was like that straw thatbroke the camel's back, because
I was really trying my best toslow down and pay attention.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
And.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I was just and it still happened.
So I was so mad at myself, sofrustrated, scared, that I was
going to lose my job because,like the situation that it came
with it, you know, I decidedthat in that, pretty much that
day, that I needed to step downfrom that role and go back to my
previous role with the companywhich they were open to, role
(08:47):
with the company which they wereopen to.
And you know that took a lot ofstrength and humility and to do
that and I definitely had itwas rough those first couple of
weeks because my mind's like didyou do the right thing?
And what are other people goingto think?
And it's not about those otherpeople, it's about, like me,
keeping my job or me keeping mysanity and, honestly, it was one
(09:07):
of the best things that's everhappened to me Because if that
didn't happen, who knows where Iwould be?
I don't really want to know, butI know I wouldn't be here on
your podcast, I wouldn't havewritten that book, I wouldn't
have found this calling that.
You know I feel like so manymen and women are in the same
(09:28):
boat.
You know that they're trying todo their best and they don't
even know what's wrong with themand don't even think that
there's something wrong withthem, because that's hard.
That's a hard pill to swallow.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I think that ADHD is a term that people throw around
a lot of times when they'retalking about kids who have a
lot of energy, or you know,because, like me, I felt when I
(10:09):
first found out about it, likethis was something that I grew
out of or can grow out of.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It's the way that your brain is developed early on
in childhood, so it's and itcomes from stress Like I feel
like all people which areneurodivergent are actually just
sensitive people you know, morehighly sensitive people that
just had a lot of stress ortrauma during that time and it
(10:36):
affected the way that theirbrains developed.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
So with ADHD it presents in adults a little
differently than childrenbecause like children it's more
physical, it's a more like.
You can see the symptoms muchmore.
With adults the symptoms arestill kind of the same, but the
adaptations have taken place,have taken place.
(11:07):
So it's like because of theshame and the guilt and and
whatever you know the system ortheir parents have given them
and they've received, they,they've decided to mask and
become more of a, you know,socially acceptable person
because they don't want to, theydon't want to go through that
humiliation or that pain thatwhen they they did show who they
were, were emotionally, orthey're running around, you know
(11:31):
, pitching a fit.
You know, like I used to runaround in like department stores
and pitch a fit.
And you know, because, like I,had all these emotions going on,
I'm a kid, my kids are supposedto be running around and free
and enjoying life and especiallyin today's society, it's like
we're pushing kids, we'reputting so much pressure on kids
(11:54):
to perform and to be successfulat earlier and earlier ages.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
And there's no time to enjoy the life of that with
the lack of responsibilities,like you're never going to go
back, to be able to go back tothat, and once, once you cross
it, cross this threshold, youknow, and sometimes it's just
like, yeah, I'm glad that I havethese responsibilities, but
there's days where I wish I justdidn't have anything to do.
(12:21):
You know where I could justunwind, listen to the birds, you
know, go on a trip or whatever,you know, and that's something
that I'm working towards.
But, like with with adults withADHD it's it shows up like you
might see more fidgeting or youknow somebody interrupting you
while you're talking because,like for them and for me in my
(12:45):
experience was I wanted to getthat out before I forgot it
absolutely like it was important.
Yeah, like I can't.
I'm sorry if you're talking,but like, but I don't.
I don't see it as rude, I justsee it as like no, not
everybody's like this.
That's that really made a hugechange is like everyone's brain.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
We think differently and that's a great thing, you
know.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
So like especially when we're driving, it's like
why is that person doing that?
Well, maybe they just theirthought process is totally
different.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
It helps me deal with like other people and
understand that.
You know, even if they haveADHD, they're all there.
There's still a spectrum of it.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Oh my gosh, that is the key word, isn't it?
Yeah it really is.
And I don't think peopleunderstand that same thing with
autism.
I mean, people just have apicture of what autism is, but
they don't.
They miss the spectrum of it,and it's just because, I have
autism too.
(13:46):
So I mean I'm constantly tryingto explain that to people, what
the word spectrum means For ADHD, for me.
I mean I normally have like 37tabs open, you know, and it's
kind of a superpower I think.
But I do bounce from thingslike I'll be writing and then
I'll go clean and then I'll readand then I'll create, and it
keeps me energized for the mostpart, but some might find that
(14:07):
it's distracting, I think, buthonestly it really does help my
brain focus.
Now, I'm not going to lie,there's times I get derailed,
but most days it really doeswork for me and I really I don't
know.
I mean people all the time areasking me how are you getting
all this done?
Now, some days I get done lessthan others, but I do think my
(14:31):
ADHD is like a superpower thathelps motivate me and get all
this stuff done, and I'm notreally sure how much I see it as
a flaw.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, and nowadays I'm happy with who I am.
I understand myself on a deeperlevel.
I have a direction to look, youknow, and I have boundaries.
You know that I try my best tolike maintain inside, but it's
okay to go outside the lines,the lines, the thing that you're
(15:05):
talking about with thesuperpower, is like yeah, it's
like we have strengths, we allhave strengths.
Certain, you know, being moresensitive is a strength, because
we're able to empathize on adeeper level, we're able to have
compassion, and I believealmost every neurodivergent
person is more justice sensitive.
So they like when there'sinjustice in the world, we feel
(15:27):
more for it and we're morelikely to speak up and say
something about it, especiallyif we know how to do it.
That's why I'm huge on what Icoach, which is being more
pro-social, because, like, ifyou can't like, we normally
don't speak up for ourselveswhen there's an opportunity to
(15:48):
do that.
You know, it's like explainingthe situation and like how we
feel and expressing that, how wefeel in that moment, because
feelings are important.
They tell us a lot of things,but a lot of us don't know how
to read those feelings or, evenworse, we just ignore them and
push them down.
(16:08):
We're a being that was designedto feel, so it's like if a guy
feels sad or scared, it's like,oh, we're not supposed to talk
about that because that's justnot something that we're
supposed to feel, but yet we'refeeling it you know.
(16:29):
So, like it's like now I feelbad about myself because I feel
this way, because I shouldn't be, but yet I am, you know.
So it's like the only way toreally comprehend that without
going insane is to say well, I'ma problem, this is a problem,
I'm the problem.
So the only way I can fix thatproblem is to is to not do that.
(16:53):
That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, it does.
But I do think that people withADHD, with a lot of our, you
know, with feelings and thingslike that, I think that we feel
so much and we can see so muchand we can see patterns and we
can see, you know, we can solveproblems that maybe other people
can't.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, Especially with what I'm understanding from
autism is like you're able tosee patterns very easily that
other people can't.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
And.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I think so too, with ADHD and a lot of neurodivergent
people.
I mean, we can catch things, wecan scan the room, we can see
things that a lot of peoplecan't see.
And we also are very empatheticpeople, and I don't care what
anybody says.
Lots of times I thinkneurodivergent people aren't
empathetic, but I think that weare more so neurodivergent.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
People aren't empathetic, but I think that we
are more so.
Yeah, and I, and I believethat's true, but it's just.
You have to be able to be intouch with that and have that
growth and and and thatacceptance of who you are.
First, because if you're you'rein a constant state of being
broken, you still have thatempathy, but it's not as like,
it's not as powerful as it canbe and with, you know, ADHD,
(18:06):
there's a lot of creativity inthere, there's a lot of that
emotional, like you're able tothink outside the box and see
things in a different wayespecially when it comes to
problem solving.
So it's like focusing on thosethings.
There's a there's a drawback tothat.
Creativity is like you have tobe able to rein it in, because
(18:28):
if you, yeah, you can do allthese things, but finishing it
and follow through are going toburn you out.
So it's like you can't sign upfor a thousand things, even
though it's all creative and itall can be done and it's all
great.
You've got to be able to.
You know, for your own sanityand for your own health, you've
(18:48):
got to be able to, like,prioritize those things and say,
well, is this good, is thisgetting me towards my goal, or
is this something that I can putaway for later.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Yeah, I walk around with a checklist.
I have to figure that outsometimes.
Why do you think mosttraditional systems just don't
work well for ADHD brains?
Because you know, most systemsand institutions are designed to
operate one way and weinterpret and process another
way.
So how does this work?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Well, I think most systems are designed to, you
know, repress us and conform us.
You know, especially in theUnited States, and that is not.
That is such a weak system.
So it doesn't really work foranybody.
It only works.
It's only easier for otherpeople to do because they don't
have these large emotions todeal with the part of their
(19:42):
brain that is developed.
More developed is that thatconnects better with that brain.
But that doesn't mean that thosesystems are good.
I feel like open systems thatgive you movement and, you know,
allow for questioning back andforth between, between, like a
teacher, or between a boss and aworker.
(20:04):
You know, to understand, likehow can we work together to
create a better environment?
That, you know, feels moresupportive, feels more inclusive
, feels like you can come to thetable too, no matter if you got
the experience or not, becausewe, you know, like it may not,
(20:25):
that idea may not be accepted,but the fact is like you're
missing out on so many greatideas that could be implemented
and they don't have to be reallybig.
Right, If you open up that doorand like people feel like they
can come to you.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
That is so important to open up that dialogue in any
kind of system that we're in.
And I had an experience onetime and I mean not just one
time, but this is one example-of it where I think that the
service industry actually needsto be trained everywhere.
If you're dealing with people,you need to be trained in
neurodivergence, because I wasin LA at a coffee shop and I
(21:08):
just ordered my coffee and, asan autistic individual who
doesn't oftentimes look atpeople, because when I'm in a
very closed space or whatever, Ican't hear you and talk to you
at the same time and look at youat the same time, it's kind of
a thing so I just I guess I waslooking somewhere else and I
ordered and she said, excuse me,are you talking to me?
(21:31):
And I went, yeah, and she said,well, I didn't know that
because you sure weren't lookingat me and I just thought, wow,
I mean, is that where we are?
That people are just going tojudge, because there are so many
people with invisibledifferences or disabilities and
there's you don't know who'sstanding across from you.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So it's about meeting people where they are instead
of meeting them in judgment.
I think that they should betrained in that.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
No, and that's huge.
I mean everyone really shouldbe trained in neurodivergent
behavior or you know mentalhealth on a deeper level.
You know, especially in theworkplace, any type of workplace
.
I feel like supervisorsespecially need that training
the most, because that's itusually trickles down from the
(22:25):
top down, you know, and it can,like leaders that lead by
example with empathy are some ofthe best leaders out there.
Yeah, it's going to be difficultto have these private companies
to adopt this, but I believethere needs to be something done
.
There are businesses out therethat provide that and do an
(22:48):
excellent job at teaching thosethings, but I believe that some
of their systems are a bitcomplex and it just feels like
overwhelming.
If you could do that in like amore simplistic way, you know,
especially, you know, for thosecompanies that want to do it.
And then for me, like Ipersonally am leaning more
(23:11):
towards this is like there needsto be some like accountability
for these companies that arejust being neglectful of other
people and and theseneurodivergent workers that are
working, coming like like, sayme, getting on that fork truck,
like they should have at leasthad a screening or a
(23:32):
questionnaire that said do youhave ADHD?
And like where are you at onthat spectrum, so that at least
they did their part in doingthat, because, like to me,
that's mental health negligence,like you're putting someone in
a position to do somethingdangerous that could not only
(23:55):
hurt them or hurt other people.
You know especially drivingheavy machinery.
You know how many accidentshappen in America on the
highways.
People may have aneurodivergency, especially ADHD
, and they're just trying torush because they don't have,
like, this ability to slow down.
These companies need to be ableto do that, you know, like part
(24:18):
of their screening process.
It just needs to get better.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I was wondering about , because you said that there
was a cost to ignoringneurodivergence in the workplace
.
Is that what you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, because you're looking at now you're taking
these people that you see areburdens, that you see are like
outliers or they're justproblematic you know.
So you don't wanna.
The best thing you can do is doyour best to deal with them,
that's it.
You're not trying to understandthem, you're not trying to talk
to them, you're not trying tosee them as human beings that
(24:54):
need that have help.
And when, when you start tounderstand them like if you give
somebody, like you're at thetime of day, and you work with
them and you work through theirissues?
and your understanding and youdo do that to the best of your
ability that worker will staywith your company.
They'll do so much more foryour company especially when you
(25:17):
allow them to be themselves.
There's a cost there, like whenit comes to like competing and
having that competitive edge.
You need people that thinkoutside the box, need people
that are creative, that come,and we are those people and you
(25:48):
probably have everybody that youneed already on your workforce.
You just need to my.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, I think that kids, not just teachers, need
more training, but peers.
If they had like a one on one,you know, you take a typical and
you match them up with aneurotypical and you have to be
friends with them and you haveto figure it out, and you have
classes where you learn aboutneurodivergence when they're
that young, I mean I just thinkthat it's really important to do
(26:18):
that.
I did have another questionabout the workplace.
If you are at an interview andI've always wondered this do you
tell people your futureemployer from the beginning that
you have ADHD?
Or do you think that you shouldlike slay the interview, go a
couple months, you know, justrock it and then gradually start
(26:42):
telling them?
You know what, I have ADHD andI might need some accommodations
.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Depends on the individual and you know where
they're at because.
But for me I would say it fromthe beginning Like I want them
to know upfront that you know Idon't see it as a problem.
But these are some of thethings, some of these issues
that I can, because by law,companies are required to give
(27:07):
you reasonable accommodations.
They don't have to like build aquiet room for you or whatever,
but they can allow you to haveheadphones and allow you to have
extra breaks if you need thosethings, you know, especially
when it comes to burnout youknow other things like that.
You know that are reasonableaccommodations.
(27:27):
The only caveat is some somecompanies will do require a
medical, a doctor, saying thatyou do have whatever you have.
Um, and you can even do thatwithout having adhd.
Like say, if you don't want tolike disclose that you have adhd
(27:48):
, say that you just talk aboutthe symptoms to say, well, I
struggle with this and get adoctor's note if you need to,
because, like they're going tofind out later on down the line.
Anyways, that's where a lot ofthe burnout comes from.
Is like masking who you are islike you got to do the same job
that everyone else is doing andthen you got to add on that that
(28:10):
behavior.
You have to do the same amountof work but double the amount of
energy, because you're sittingthere masking all day long and
pretending that you know andtrying to figure out a problem.
You know that most people orother people don't have a
problem with you know what I'msaying.
So it's.
And then you feel, then you'vegot to overcome that feeling of
(28:32):
guilt of like, oh, I'm not smartenough or I'm not as good as
them, because you're allautomatically going to compare
yourself to other people.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I mask all day when I'm out in the world.
That's what I do, and it isexhausting.
And it's hard to let people seewhat, who you really are.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
No, I totally get that, but it's like it's so
freeing for me just to not careif, like you know, especially,
but it comes from myself andthat acceptance is like you know
, um, you know, I beat myself alot up, a lot because I forgot
something that I normallyremember.
Like how could you forget?
You're an idiot?
But now it's like I've come tothat acceptance, like well, you
(29:10):
forgot that happened, right, youknow that's supposed to.
I'm surprised it doesn't happenmore often, like you're
actually doing good.
So when you like switch, switchthat mindset of like okay, this
is who I am, this is how mybrain is, there's nothing wrong
with that.
These are the things that I dowell, that you know other people
(29:33):
wish they had you know, likethat you know other people wish
they had.
You know, like, like I can, Ican make my own business.
I'm creative, like I've justgot to work on the follow
through.
Like that, justice, sensitivityfor me is like such a passion
and a drive that it's like Iwant to spend the rest of my
life trying to do somethingabout that.
(29:54):
So I've already got my purposeyou know a lot of people's
purpose in life is like thething that they look for and
they think it's money, becauseit's like society tells them
that they got to be rich, theygot to have a position of power,
they got to have a wife and Xamount of kids and this amount
of cars and like you get allthose things and even studies
(30:17):
say those things.
Like that people aren't anyhappier.
The amount that you're likerelatively happy is like around
seventy five, eighty thousanddollars.
Anything above that doesn'treally affect, doesn't move the
needle.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Like you're saying.
I mean purpose is the reasonwhy I do this and this is what
makes me happy.
And ADHDers have the mostnonlinear way of thinking.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yeah, empath.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And nothing is in a straight line which allows us to
have this intuitive way ofthinking.
And you've tapped into thecreative minds that we have.
How would you help someone withADHD tap into that creativity
to be able to take their life tothe next level?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, just thinking about where you would like to be
in the next five years.
What would that dream look likefor you?
This is something that helpedme in the beginning was, like
you know.
So, really visualize what, whatyou would let, what that life
would look like, what, whatyou'd be able to do and then
create, like you know, um andthis is something that, um, I
(31:24):
got from this book it's like patflynn, will it fly you?
You take a piece of paper likethis and blank piece of paper
and you divide it into quadrantsand then you put in the four
quadrants that like of your lifethat you care the most about.
Like one is like mental health,you know.
The other is like physicalhealth and family and and, and,
(31:48):
like you know, finances.
You really write out what, whatthat would look like in each,
each quadrant, you know.
So you really write out whatthat would look like in each
quadrant, you know.
So you really define yourfuture and you kind of like you
work backwards to figure out howare you going to get to that
goal.
Like, is each step that I'mtaking now leading me towards
(32:09):
that goal?
It doesn't have to be astraight, straight away, but am
I getting better, you know, andfigure out which coagulants the
best.
The most important for me thatwas the mental health that was.
I was like ADHD and you knowthat developed into a podcast,
uh, about ADHD in the workplace.
So it's like really finding outlike what you want in life,
(32:33):
where you would, where yourdream would be, because, like
you can, you can build your lifearound that dream.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
I was going to ask you about dream making.
You know, because sometimes wecan feel so beat down and you
talk about that with depressionand things like that and so many
times and I know this for afact that there are people out
there that really would not havethought that I would have been
successful at all and I reallyalways I've created vision
(33:05):
boards.
I've pictured, like you said,it's very visual for us.
I think we need that visual andI think it's really important
that we just stay focused andnot hear those outside things,
because so many people can beour worst enemies Our own
definitions of ourselves can beour own worst enemy and not
allow those things to infiltratewho we really are and be able
(33:27):
to allow our creativity tobecome this amazing person that
I know that we were destined tobe.
So you know, how do people withADHD stay on that track, stay
focused on it with all thatnoise around them and be able to
reach the dreams that they want?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, I feel like one of the most important is the
people in your life Like eitherhave somebody that's aligned
with your goals and you can worktogether or hire a coach, like
an ADHD coach or whatever coachthat you feel is going to put
you in that spotlight, becauseno one's going to motivate you
(34:10):
the way somebody else that isbeing paid to motivate you
Because you can't motivateyourself like that way you.
Then there's going to be thosedoubts.
You know you've lived yourwhole life persevering through
those doubts.
Those doubts just don't don'tdisappear.
You know, if you've had a fewdays, or you know a couple
(34:30):
months, of like, good vibes andyour mindset shifts, it's, it's
going.
You know your brain's thoughtthis way for so long and you've
got to work through that.
And you know it's, it's justpart of that, that mechanism
that protects you.
So you've got to have somethingthat that can pull you up when
you're down, when you get down,because life is going to happen
(34:53):
and those doubts are going tocome.
You know I still get doubts tothis day.
You know they show up, usuallyin the morning and they're like
I don't know if you should bedoing this.
This is a lot of work and likeyou're not seeing like immediate
success or like something thatyou know we define as success in
the moment, whether that's likemaking a lot of money or
(35:15):
getting a lot of clients orwhatever that looks like.
No, the success is like you didbetter than yesterday, like you
got to look at what you did doversus what you're not doing,
and coaches can really help youbring that, bring that part,
that bring that side of you out,that you can have more
confidence in yourself.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I just want to go here for a second because this
is really interesting.
You know, we both have ourpodcasts, we're both ADHD and
we're having a regularconversation.
And you know, I mean, how do wedo this, how do people do this
and stay in the conversationinstead of get our minds mixed
up with everything that aregoing on in the room?
(35:57):
But you and I are having aconversation, we're able to do
it.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, it's about active listening, you know.
So it's something that you knowtakes practice and takes time,
but like the best way that youcan do that is well, there's two
different ways, but like theeasier way would be if I want to
engage in that conversation andwhat you're saying is like I
need to pay attention to it.
(36:22):
So I can like, so you can givean active loop of feedback, so
like, if you said something andlike I need to verify it by
saying, okay, let me let me likestate a couple points and then
ask of what they said and thenask, okay, am I getting that
(36:42):
right?
You know so they'll, they'llexplain it back to you if, like,
you got it right or you knowwhat you missed.
So you get kind of like even abetter explanation and even be
honest, like say lookexplanation.
And even be honest, like say,look, my brain was somewhere
else.
You know it does that I haveADHD.
Could you please repeat whatyou just said?
(37:03):
Like I'm sorry, I wasn't tryingto ignore you, because people
aren't going to get mad that youdidn't hear them if you tell
them why.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Yeah, we're constantly trying to figure out
workarounds in everything thatwe do in this world.
So I mean that's really goodand because we have no choice
but to figure out ways tofunction in systems that were
never made for us to begin with,honestly.
So we're always trying to kickin that creativity and try to
(37:31):
figure it out and use thatintuitive nature that I think
that we have.
Let's be honest, the typicalworld is not going to bend, it's
just not going to.
Oh yeah, I want to take amoment and talk about your book,
because I think that your bookreally is bringing out some of
that stuff.
It's getting into thatunderlying piece of who we are
(37:53):
as ADHD individuals.
The Self-Discovery Journal forAdults with ADHD because, you
know, it looks at the tools forthose of us who want to uncover
who we really are.
And what I love most is howit's designed for us to go at
our own pace.
That's perfect and no pressureand honest self-reflection.
(38:16):
And you've created prompts thatdon't just scratch the surface.
They invite us to go where weprobably normally wouldn't even
go.
One thing that really stood outto me is how you flipped the
script and you kind of touchedon this earlier in your way of
thinking, which I like.
Instead of asking what's wrongwith me, you take the blame off
(38:38):
of yourself and you place it onwhere did this come from?
And I think that that's genius,because it removes the blame
and invites curiosity instead ofshame.
So can you talk more about thatthought process and designing
this journal and why you thinkself-talk is such a huge and
it's underrated?
Speaker 2 (38:57):
and we all have it.
It's just so hidden, it'sburied by the system that we're
in.
So it was like really openingthat up and you know, the
thought process behind it waslike I started to see these
details of me that were, youknow, emotionally, traumatically
(39:21):
based.
You know I wanted to to to givepeople an opportunity to be
able to, you know, explore thatin a way it didn't require you
to just read a book.
It was like here's, here'ssomewhere where you can write it
down, take your time with it,come back to it if you need to.
You know so that they becauseonce I started doing that with
(39:42):
myself, like it unlocked so manythings that I thought were true
about myself, that wereactually something that were
just stories that I was tellingto myself.
It's understanding thatnarrative and breaking that
narrative to a degree that youcan start to be like, start to
question, like some of thethings that you do, and start to
see value in other things, likeit's not me being broken, the
(40:05):
blame's not on me, it's justwhere, where do you think this
started?
It's about getting to the rootcause of every problem, like
every, and a lot of us don'tlook at the emotional aspect of
it and the fact that it happenedin childhood, like how could
that affect me today, Like thatwas so long ago and, honestly,
like there's so many things thatstill affect me today and if I
(40:29):
don't, if I'm not've neverreally thought about that, I
mean, I know, my brain was bornthis way.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I know my brain was wired this way for as long as I
can remember, but I had a lot oftrauma too, so and I mean it
did affect me.
And one of the questions inyour book that really hit me
right where I live, I guess, iswhen I feel intense guilt, is it
about a current moment or anold wound?
(41:12):
And I, just as soon as I readthat, I went ouch, I was like,
yeah, I mean that's what you'retalking about here.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Yeah, it's about that , because all of us experience
trauma in one way or another,and trauma a lot.
Most people, including myself,they thought that trauma was
physical, was it was like, or anextreme loss, like a death,
sudden death.
And yes, those are traumatic,but that's not the only traumas
(41:45):
that are out there and some ofthem are smaller and they just
don't register.
Neglect is a trauma.
Neglect can actually be moretraumatic than a physical blow
or whatever.
You know, I dealt with a lot ofneglect growing up from my dad
and that really affected me andmy relationships moving forward
(42:07):
and the person that I became soand there was like, even still
like cause I could.
I was always trying to make mydad proud of me.
He would never notice, um, Idon't know if he he just didn't
have the capability of sayingsomething or didn't think that
he could because of hisupbringing.
There was always a resentmentthere because of that.
(42:28):
But even now it's like anybodythat talks down to me or says
things about me that you knoware negative, like I really took
to heart and it angered me tothat point and like because it
went back to that me not beinggood enough for my dad, you know
, and so I was able to see thatas like wow, that's what, why it
(42:52):
triggers me, not that itshouldn't, but it shouldn't have
that like profound effect on meit sounds like it fueled you to
want to be different than yourdad yeah, and and even even
changing the dynamic with mylike, I love my dad and you know
um, it's just we can'tcommunicate a lot.
So one thing that I did was Itold my mom about it, because
(43:16):
that that was that was affectingme to a degree Cause, like I
want, I still want to have thatconnection with my dad.
But I understand like he's soisolated Like dad.
But I understand like he's soisolated like he rarely answers
the phone, like only when I texthim will he answer and it's
usually me initiating it theywere.
They gave me the suggestion toto send this text.
(43:38):
That said, I haven't heard fromyou in a while.
It'd be nice to hear from youyou know so and then I put like
a a little smiley face emoji onthe end To make it light, and he
ended up, you know, saying thathe'd call and he did call and
we had a good conversation.
So it was like being even beingopen for myself, if I want that
(44:00):
and here's an opportunity.
You know there was still somefear there that you know he
wouldn't respond to that, but atleast I'm doing everything that
I can to pull him in to thisrelationship because you know
he's part of my family.
You know I'll accept himwherever he's at, but I would
(44:21):
like for him, you know us to tryto repair that in some way plus
I feel, like he's got answersfor me that you know I can ask
about his childhood once, oncehe's once I've gotten to a place
so I can figure more more aboutme and him, you know, and and
hopefully maybe that'll open thedoor for him to do some
(44:43):
exploring, but when he's's ready, I'm not going to.
Just I wanted to ask that.
In that case I was like no,this is too soon.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
You know, I think that we own so much that isn't
ours.
And you know, shame is such abig thing and how we internalize
things like that.
And it's this balancing act ofnot trusting ourselves but
allowing others to have powerover us too when we're trying to
navigate the world, and we needthat at times.
(45:11):
So, trying to get a coach whileyou're trying to figure out hey
, I didn't trust my dad, how amI going to trust this person in
front of me?
But I need somebody to help menavigate the world.
I mean, I think that that'ssomething that I think that we
all have to deal with too.
I have external brains that'swhat I call them and there is so
(45:31):
much of my past that affects menot being able to trust people
to allow them to help menavigate the world.
But I do need that.
I mean, have you ever gonethere in your life, like you
know, with the trust and notbeing able to really go to
people and advocate because ofthe past?
Speaker 2 (45:51):
I mean it does have a slight effect, but like I just,
I just got to trust the processand that's my phrase.
Yes, and go through through itwith.
You know, no matter whathappened.
It's this thing called benefitof the doubt, you know.
So giving people the benefit ofthe doubt until they prove
otherwise, it's like a trust.
(46:18):
That's more that peoplegenerally want to be good, they
generally want to be happy andthey generally want to be free.
And that's where I see morepeople is like they're just
carrying around this trauma.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
There are a lot of strategies out there for us to
be able to cope better in theworld.
I talked a little bit about themovement breaks that I would
have, where I would clean, goand write and then get up, maybe
get on the treadmill, then I'dgo read, you know, and those
movement breaks really did helpme stay fresh with my brain.
(46:48):
So are there other strategiesthat people can use?
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Yeah, it's just, you know like getting up and moving
around is an amazing one If youcan like go on a walk, or you
know like, especially in themorning, you know when you get
up, because getting out innature is totally like,
especially if you can getoutside your head and try to be
in the moment where you're likeI'm not going to think about
(47:14):
what I have to do, I'm not goingto think about what I didn't do
, I'm going to try to be righthere listening to the birds and
like feeling the wind and likethat's kind of you know weird
how like the wind just touchesyou and like we don't even
notice it.
And but when we we come backbecause there's so much in the
present moment, especially whenyou go around nature it's like
(47:35):
so refreshing.
It's no matter where I'm at.
I got always like breathing inthe air and knowing like I've
got everything that I need righthere with me like that I will
ever need to have.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Well, you're touched on grounding techniques.
I mean grounding techniques areamazing, Like I.
I forget exactly how it is, butit's something like I see five
things, I smell four things, Iwhatever.
And you like you know you feltthe wind on you.
It's something that's bringingyou back to center.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Yeah, I, whatever, and you, like you know you felt
the wind on you.
It's something that's bringingyou back to center.
Yeah, definitely, and with thebreathing too, it's it's.
There's such a power to thebreath, you know.
Or, or, if you need, take abreak and like, give yourself
like a snack.
You'll be able to scroll onTikToks for five minutes.
You know, set a timer for that,you know.
But don't like start out withthat because you might get
(48:30):
distracted.
But give that to yourself as agift.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
I personally, I take notes all day and have reminders
, because if I don't, I can havethe most amazing thought, but
then I can have another thoughtwhich makes me lose the amazing,
amazing thought that I just had.
So I really do, I carry myphone and I'm like I take notes
(48:56):
whenever I think of something.
I'll even do that at nightsometimes and have those
reminders too, and it couldappear that we have a bad memory
.
I think at times because I'mlike OK, now where did I put
that?
But it's because I'm not eventhinking about where I put that
when I was putting that there.
You know, I'm thinking of 50other things and I'm not really
(49:20):
in the present.
So I like you constantlytalking about being in the
present.
I think that that's reallyimportant.
I actually have a friend thattook medicine to slow down her
brain, to quiet her brain, andshe's very ADHD and she went off
of it because she liked thenoise in her brain.
(49:40):
And she just she couldn't standhow quiet that really was.
So I found that interesting.
But I think that having thatmany tabs open, like I did talk
about, even though it can appearlike I'm forgetful, it does
really help me function and keepmyself fresh and my creative
juices flowing all the time.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
I believe it's just the sheer volume of thoughts and
we just don't have the capacityfor the amount of creativity
that our brain creates.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Well, what is mindfulness-based strength
practice and what is that inaction?
Speaker 2 (50:19):
So, yeah, that's something that's like one of the
core tenets of what I coach,and mindfulness-based strengths
practice is mindfulness withcharacter strengths.
So we all have this idea ofcharacter strengths.
That could be forgiveness, thatcould be creativity, social
intelligence there's 24, in thisparticular practice, there's 24
(50:41):
character strengths you knowand you have some that are
signature strengths, so they'relike the top five or the ones
that you easily access.
So for me, that would becreativity, critical thinking,
love of learning and forgivenessand honesty.
So like that shows up in me asa person.
(51:02):
That kind of defines who I am.
Like you can, you can start tosee that and and other people,
um, like you, you're, you'recreative, like I can see that,
and it's about strength spottingand other people you know and
you persevere as well.
So that's one of you, one ofthe strengths that comes, comes
to life.
It's being able to spot thosethings in a mindful way.
(51:24):
So if you're just focused onstrengths, you might tend to
overuse them.
A lot of people just eitheroveruse or underuse their
strengths.
So you can kind of see thestrengths in other people.
That person shows a goodleadership.
Well, they're showingleadership, but they're very
overusing it because they'rebossing people around and think
(51:46):
they need to control things.
So they have that strengththere.
It's just rubbing people thewrong way.
So if they added moremindfulness into that, you know
they'd be able to adjust thatand it's also bringing that into
the mindfulness as well.
So it's like bringing thatcuriosity into mindfulness,
which is almost a core tenant ofit.
(52:06):
But you can also bringforgiveness in there.
How can I forgive myself foracting that way?
You know, how can I be forgiveothers?
You know that guy that cut meoff in traffic.
Maybe you know just thinking ofmyself and like people make
mistakes all the time.
Maybe he's got somewhere to go,maybe he got up late.
You know it's like you knowhe's, he's just trying to get to
(52:26):
where he needs.
Maybe he's got somewhere to go.
Maybe he got up late.
You know, it's like you knowhe's just trying to get to where
he needs.
Maybe he's got ADHD and he justcan't help himself.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
It sounds to me, because I didn't know about this
, but it sounds to me like it'sabout meeting people right where
they are instead of meetingwanting people to know where you
are and you know, butunderstanding where you both are
, and without judgment.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
It's about developing arelationship with yourself and
then that relationship, becausewhen you put out strengths into
any environment, you know ittends to grow and radiate out
into the other people.
Because when you start tocompliment people on their
strengths, people love to hearcompliments, especially when how
(53:11):
they're showing up as, like man, you're doing a really good job
, or it took a lot of courage tosay the things that you said,
or you're man, you just showedreal leadership there and I got
wanted to let you know.
It means a lot to me thatyou've showed up as a team
player as well, because that's areal leader, so important.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
People just want to be validated.
They want to be recognized.
It's so simple.
I do want to make this a littlebit more personal right now,
because you do talk about ADHD,individuals with addiction and
depression.
So I was wondering if you couldtalk more about that with your
own story.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Yeah, depression has been something that's been with
me my whole life.
You know, I really thought fora long time that depression was
just like a fear and it is, butit was.
It minimizes, you know, a lotof these words we minimize like
I'm just, I'm feeling anxious orI'm feeling stressed out, you
know when, when there's actuallysomething going on there deeper
.
So with the depression, like Ifeel like it came from that same
(54:12):
place of like neglect and likenot being worthy of love.
So I would always seek out lovein in different ways, like that
weren't really love, it wasjust either lust or
self-gratification.
So it would be, you know, likeI would have to have a
relationship, an intimaterelationship, in order to feel
(54:33):
like I was being loved, like Iwas you know and I.
But it was never enough becauseit wasn't an actual the love
that I actually needed.
Through mindfulness I was ableto.
So I was getting.
I got pretty depressed becausepeople weren't calling me and
checking up on me or texting meto see how I am.
It really affected me because Iwas reaching out and it just
(54:56):
seemed like I wasn't gettingthat in return.
So it just felt like, oh,that's my value there People
don't really care because I'mnot worthy of being cared about.
Well, I'm practicingmindfulness right now.
You know I am worthy that I am,so that I do self-love and I do
care about myself because I'mcontinuing this practice and I'm
(55:16):
trying to get better with itand with me.
Depression is about, or anyfeeling really is like, not
trying to stop it, not trying toavoid it, not trying to push it
down, but just sitting thereand exploring that emotion and
where it's come from, or justpushing through and doing the
activity or the thing that Idon't want to do when I'm
(55:39):
depressed.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
Is that what you do when you coach people is help
them try to find the root?
Speaker 2 (55:43):
Yeah, try to, you know, and not all the time it's
going to be, there's going to bean answer, but sometimes there
will be.
But it's about that exploration.
It's about sitting in thatemotion and being okay and not
giving it the power.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
That's good.
Yeah, Not giving it the powerwhich, by the way, with
addiction.
What about addiction?
Is there a connection betweenADHD and addiction?
Is there a connection?
Speaker 2 (56:05):
between ADHD and addiction.
Yeah, I feel like they're very,very closely linked.
There's a lot of overlyingattributes, so like one is like
the impulsivity.
There's a lot of impulsivebehavior with a lot of addicts
and that comes from and that'salso with ADHD, because we want,
we have these strong emotionsand we want to have this
(56:28):
something to get us out of there, and we don't have that, that
um prefrontal cortex that'sdeveloped.
So when a thought pops in, wejust we just act.
You know there's no like okay,you need to think about this and
like maybe this isn't, you know, run this by somebody.
Yeah, that's kind of what theyteach you in recovery is to like
(56:49):
just run this by somebody,especially if it's an emotional
decision.
And that inward unmanageability, which they call that in
(57:09):
recovery, is also that emotionaldysregulation.
So it's like my emotions can goanywhere and that makes me
unmanageable because like Icould react in a negative way
just based on the way somebodytalked to me.
So it's like understanding thatwhen I made that connection I
was like, wow, so I'm not, likeyou know, a screwed up person
that's just got bad morals.
I just it's just the way mybrain's's just it's a lot of,
(57:33):
you know, work relatedstrategies, whether that's
working from home or going toyour job, and like kind of the
(57:54):
life around that, and like howdo you navigate these things?
I also have special guests onthere that talk about a wide
variety of things.
Speaker 1 (58:04):
Okay, well, I really hope that our listeners will
check that out.
How do people get a hold of you?
What's your website?
Speaker 2 (58:10):
Yeah, my website is youradhdcom adhdguycom, and I'm
also put to get giving away thatfree discovery journal, so you
can get an e-copy of that atyouradhdguycom.
It's a simple way to reflectand reset and get to know
yourself better on a deeperlevel.
(58:30):
Like we talked about, and foranyone ready to take things
deeper, I've got a five sessioncoaching program called the
Connection Blueprint, designedto help men over 40 move out of
isolation, build confidence andcreate real connection in their
lives, and you can also findthat at youradhdguycom.
It's been grateful to connectwith you and anyone listening.
Speaker 1 (58:53):
Well, Ron, thank you for coming on here and speaking
my language.
Thank you for showing up for themisunderstood and the
misdiagnosed.
If you're listening and you'veever felt like your brain didn't
fit the mold, I want you toknow there is no mold.
You are not too much.
You're not broken, you are notlazy.
You are wired for depth anddiscovery, that curiosity that
(59:16):
we talked about.
Make sure to reach out to Ronif you need help navigating this
world with a neurodivergentmind, and if you love what
you've heard, hit subscribe,leave us a review and share this
episode with someone who mightneed to hear that they are
enough exactly as they are.
So until next time, be kind toyour brain and bold with your
(59:37):
voice.
Remember there is purpose inthe pain and hope in the journey
, and we will see you next time.
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
Today's episode is one I'vebeen itching to do.
As someone who lives with ADHD,I know what it's like walking
through a world built withrulers and straight lines when
your brain is a kaleidoscope.
But what if the very thingsthat make us feel broken are
actually the things that make usbrilliant?
My guest today is someone whogets it on every level.
(00:31):
Ron Sowers is an ADHD advocate.
The voice behind Don't Mind Me,I Just have ADHD dives into the
experience of living with ADHD,addiction and depression, and
he's the author of theSelf-Discovery Journal which I
have right here because Iordered it for adults with ADHD.
Yeah, he's a consultant whohelps businesses create
(00:54):
neurodiverse, friendlyenvironments and he supports
employees navigating ADHD withtools, compassion and real-world
solution.
And he helps ADHD individualswho struggle with depression and
addiction and help discoverpurpose on the other side.
And he just might be a rappertoo, from what I understand.
So Ron is proof that us ADHDersmight have a hard time with our
(01:18):
to-do list, but we can haveexecutive dysfunction and still
execute our purpose.
So thank you so much, ron, forbeing here today.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well, thank you, that was very flattering and you
know it's an honor to be hereand share this space with you.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And you've clearly turned your ADHD into a mission
and a passion for helping others, but I'd love to go back to the
beginning.
And a passion for helpingothers, but I'd love to go back
to the beginning.
What was life like beforepre-diagnosis and what led you
to understand that your brainwas different and that you
needed help navigating the world?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, it was quite the journey.
The first time that I realizedthat I may have ADHD was like I
was about to get fired from myjob and, you know, I was like
running into stuff, I couldn'tslow down.
I um was damaging companyproperty, injuring myself, and I
(02:16):
was, you know, unfortunately, Ihad people in my life that were
telling me that you know, maybeyou need to seek help about
this, like they were alreadytelling me you need to slow down
my whole life and I justthought they just didn't know
what they were talking about.
And so this finally, I finallystarted to listen.
Out of fear of losing my job, Iwent and saw my primary care.
(02:40):
In that instance, you know, Iwas like I'm desperate for help,
like I need, I can't slow down,I've tried everything, I'm not
trying to lose my job, I wasjust just everything on the
table and she kind of didn't,but she still gave me a list of
(03:06):
psychologists and therapists.
So I went through that list andI was like just calling and
calling and just wanting thathelp, like, and I finally was
able to meet the therapist thatI'm working with today and, um,
yeah, in that journey, like oneof the first things that he said
to me was like yeah, you haveADHD, but this can be used as a
(03:29):
strength.
And in that moment I was like Ifelt broken.
I felt like.
I spent my whole life thinking Iwas normal, that I was
intelligent, that I was smartand you know.
But there was like so muchevidence, you know, for the ADHD
.
So it was like this middleground of somewhat accepting it
and somewhat denying it.
And, you know, because there'dbe days where I just didn't feel
(03:52):
like I had it and was beginningwhich was to write down your
thoughts Because I had troubleat work just standing around,
you know, because I felt likeyou need to be productive, I
would get bored really easilyand like I would get upset when
(04:14):
other people were talking, whenwe could be doing work, and this
wasn't the place for that, likefor this conversation, and,
like you know, so I would getlike angry about not being able
to work and, frustrated, I wouldget a lot of anxiety.
So what he said is like justbring in a journal into work and
like write out your thoughts ordraw your thoughts or draw like
(04:38):
or draw pictures and like youknow, that really helped because
it was like it helped me tounderstand that you know these
thoughts need to come out andthere it's better for them to
come out on paper than for me tolike actually say them.
You know so.
And one of the other thingsthat he taught you know, told me
was like if you drive, likewhen you're going to work, like
(05:02):
you're going to be taken thelong way, like when you're going
to work, like you're going tobe taken the long way.
So I actually took thatliterally and went the long way
to work, which ended up beingvery therapeutic, you know, and
helped me to gradually slow down, like yeah, I do, you know, it
still pops up from now and again.
But one of the biggest thingsthat has really helped me was
(05:22):
further along, when he was likesaying question the thoughts or
put like something in.
There is like if I'm in a rush,I usually ask myself what's the
hurry?
What's you left early Like whyare you rushing to work still?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, that's a really great question.
I think that I do that too.
I mean, I know that I do.
Every single thing that I do islike I have to be busy, I have
to be doing 10 things at once,and I don't understand when
other people say that they'rebored or you know they are
standing around.
I'm the exact same way, so it'sjust, I guess, a part of who we
(05:59):
are, but I don't know.
You use the word.
You know that you weren'tnormal.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Is that the way you really see it Is that we's not
going to just tell me like nope,you have to stay, you're not
good.
Like he's just going to allow meto do what I need to do.
You know, that's that's what,you know, I find really about
him is like he's like more aboutlistening to the patient and
not prescribing medication.
(07:02):
You know, even though when I,when I went back because I had
taken on a new role and I wasdriving a forklift and and
moving, transporting dangerouschemicals around, and I had
ended up, you know, doing thesame pattern and like going too
fast, hitting, I hit, like Itook out a reinforcement pole, a
(07:24):
concrete reinforcement pole,and like punctured drums with
the fork tips and like withchemicals in it, and like it was
just, it was a mess and it wasa lot of stress, um added stress
onto what I was doing and andso I went back to see him in the
middle of that process sayinglike yeah, how can I slow down,
(07:45):
like I really need this, likeI'm taking this ADHD seriously,
I haven't fixed it.
Like it's not something thatyou know that.
I've done.
I've looked at it like in morelong term.
I need to invest in this.
Above me while I was pullingthe forks back down, and even
(08:07):
though it wasn't like thatsignificant to me, it was a sign
.
It was like that straw thatbroke the camel's back, because
I was really trying my best toslow down and pay attention.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
And.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I was just and it still happened.
So I was so mad at myself, sofrustrated, scared, that I was
going to lose my job because,like the situation that it came
with it, you know, I decidedthat in that, pretty much that
day, that I needed to step downfrom that role and go back to my
previous role with the companywhich they were open to, role
(08:47):
with the company which they wereopen to.
And you know that took a lot ofstrength and humility and to do
that and I definitely had itwas rough those first couple of
weeks because my mind's like didyou do the right thing?
And what are other people goingto think?
And it's not about those otherpeople, it's about, like me,
keeping my job or me keeping mysanity and, honestly, it was one
(09:07):
of the best things that's everhappened to me Because if that
didn't happen, who knows where Iwould be?
I don't really want to know, butI know I wouldn't be here on
your podcast, I wouldn't havewritten that book, I wouldn't
have found this calling that.
You know I feel like so manymen and women are in the same
(09:28):
boat.
You know that they're trying todo their best and they don't
even know what's wrong with themand don't even think that
there's something wrong withthem, because that's hard.
That's a hard pill to swallow.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I think that ADHD is a term that people throw around
a lot of times when they'retalking about kids who have a
lot of energy, or you know,because, like me, I felt when I
(10:09):
first found out about it, likethis was something that I grew
out of or can grow out of.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It's the way that your brain is developed early on
in childhood, so it's and itcomes from stress Like I feel
like all people which areneurodivergent are actually just
sensitive people you know, morehighly sensitive people that
just had a lot of stress ortrauma during that time and it
(10:36):
affected the way that theirbrains developed.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
So with ADHD it presents in adults a little
differently than childrenbecause like children it's more
physical, it's a more like.
You can see the symptoms muchmore.
With adults the symptoms arestill kind of the same, but the
adaptations have taken place,have taken place.
(11:07):
So it's like because of theshame and the guilt and and
whatever you know the system ortheir parents have given them
and they've received, they,they've decided to mask and
become more of a, you know,socially acceptable person
because they don't want to, theydon't want to go through that
humiliation or that pain thatwhen they they did show who they
were, were emotionally, orthey're running around, you know
(11:31):
, pitching a fit.
You know, like I used to runaround in like department stores
and pitch a fit.
And you know, because, like I,had all these emotions going on,
I'm a kid, my kids are supposedto be running around and free
and enjoying life and especiallyin today's society, it's like
we're pushing kids, we'reputting so much pressure on kids
(11:54):
to perform and to be successfulat earlier and earlier ages.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
And there's no time to enjoy the life of that with
the lack of responsibilities,like you're never going to go
back, to be able to go back tothat, and once, once you cross
it, cross this threshold, youknow, and sometimes it's just
like, yeah, I'm glad that I havethese responsibilities, but
there's days where I wish I justdidn't have anything to do.
(12:21):
You know where I could justunwind, listen to the birds, you
know, go on a trip or whatever,you know, and that's something
that I'm working towards.
But, like with with adults withADHD it's it shows up like you
might see more fidgeting or youknow somebody interrupting you
while you're talking because,like for them and for me in my
(12:45):
experience was I wanted to getthat out before I forgot it
absolutely like it was important.
Yeah, like I can't.
I'm sorry if you're talking,but like, but I don't.
I don't see it as rude, I justsee it as like no, not
everybody's like this.
That's that really made a hugechange is like everyone's brain.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
We think differently and that's a great thing, you
know.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
So like especially when we're driving, it's like
why is that person doing that?
Well, maybe they just theirthought process is totally
different.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
It helps me deal with like other people and
understand that.
You know, even if they haveADHD, they're all there.
There's still a spectrum of it.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Oh my gosh, that is the key word, isn't it?
Yeah it really is.
And I don't think peopleunderstand that same thing with
autism.
I mean, people just have apicture of what autism is, but
they don't.
They miss the spectrum of it,and it's just because, I have
autism too.
(13:46):
So I mean I'm constantly tryingto explain that to people, what
the word spectrum means For ADHD, for me.
I mean I normally have like 37tabs open, you know, and it's
kind of a superpower I think.
But I do bounce from thingslike I'll be writing and then
I'll go clean and then I'll readand then I'll create, and it
keeps me energized for the mostpart, but some might find that
(14:07):
it's distracting, I think, buthonestly it really does help my
brain focus.
Now, I'm not going to lie,there's times I get derailed,
but most days it really doeswork for me and I really I don't
know.
I mean people all the time areasking me how are you getting
all this done?
Now, some days I get done lessthan others, but I do think my
(14:31):
ADHD is like a superpower thathelps motivate me and get all
this stuff done, and I'm notreally sure how much I see it as
a flaw.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, and nowadays I'm happy with who I am.
I understand myself on a deeperlevel.
I have a direction to look, youknow, and I have boundaries.
You know that I try my best tolike maintain inside, but it's
okay to go outside the lines,the lines, the thing that you're
(15:05):
talking about with thesuperpower, is like yeah, it's
like we have strengths, we allhave strengths.
Certain, you know, being moresensitive is a strength, because
we're able to empathize on adeeper level, we're able to have
compassion, and I believealmost every neurodivergent
person is more justice sensitive.
So they like when there'sinjustice in the world, we feel
(15:27):
more for it and we're morelikely to speak up and say
something about it, especiallyif we know how to do it.
That's why I'm huge on what Icoach, which is being more
pro-social, because, like, ifyou can't like, we normally
don't speak up for ourselveswhen there's an opportunity to
(15:48):
do that.
You know, it's like explainingthe situation and like how we
feel and expressing that, how wefeel in that moment, because
feelings are important.
They tell us a lot of things,but a lot of us don't know how
to read those feelings or, evenworse, we just ignore them and
push them down.
(16:08):
We're a being that was designedto feel, so it's like if a guy
feels sad or scared, it's like,oh, we're not supposed to talk
about that because that's justnot something that we're
supposed to feel, but yet we'refeeling it you know.
(16:29):
So, like it's like now I feelbad about myself because I feel
this way, because I shouldn't be, but yet I am, you know.
So it's like the only way toreally comprehend that without
going insane is to say well, I'ma problem, this is a problem,
I'm the problem.
So the only way I can fix thatproblem is to is to not do that.
(16:53):
That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, it does.
But I do think that people withADHD, with a lot of our, you
know, with feelings and thingslike that, I think that we feel
so much and we can see so muchand we can see patterns and we
can see, you know, we can solveproblems that maybe other people
can't.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, Especially with what I'm understanding from
autism is like you're able tosee patterns very easily that
other people can't.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
And.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I think so too, with ADHD and a lot of neurodivergent
people.
I mean, we can catch things, wecan scan the room, we can see
things that a lot of peoplecan't see.
And we also are very empatheticpeople, and I don't care what
anybody says.
Lots of times I thinkneurodivergent people aren't
empathetic, but I think that weare more so neurodivergent.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
People aren't empathetic, but I think that we
are more so.
Yeah, and I, and I believethat's true, but it's just.
You have to be able to be intouch with that and have that
growth and and and thatacceptance of who you are.
First, because if you're you'rein a constant state of being
broken, you still have thatempathy, but it's not as like,
it's not as powerful as it canbe and with, you know, ADHD,
(18:06):
there's a lot of creativity inthere, there's a lot of that
emotional, like you're able tothink outside the box and see
things in a different wayespecially when it comes to
problem solving.
So it's like focusing on thosethings.
There's a there's a drawback tothat.
Creativity is like you have tobe able to rein it in, because
(18:28):
if you, yeah, you can do allthese things, but finishing it
and follow through are going toburn you out.
So it's like you can't sign upfor a thousand things, even
though it's all creative and itall can be done and it's all
great.
You've got to be able to.
You know, for your own sanityand for your own health, you've
(18:48):
got to be able to, like,prioritize those things and say,
well, is this good, is thisgetting me towards my goal, or
is this something that I can putaway for later.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Yeah, I walk around with a checklist.
I have to figure that outsometimes.
Why do you think mosttraditional systems just don't
work well for ADHD brains?
Because you know, most systemsand institutions are designed to
operate one way and weinterpret and process another
way.
So how does this work?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Well, I think most systems are designed to, you
know, repress us and conform us.
You know, especially in theUnited States, and that is not.
That is such a weak system.
So it doesn't really work foranybody.
It only works.
It's only easier for otherpeople to do because they don't
have these large emotions todeal with the part of their
(19:42):
brain that is developed.
More developed is that thatconnects better with that brain.
But that doesn't mean that thosesystems are good.
I feel like open systems thatgive you movement and, you know,
allow for questioning back andforth between, between, like a
teacher, or between a boss and aworker.
(20:04):
You know, to understand, likehow can we work together to
create a better environment?
That, you know, feels moresupportive, feels more inclusive
, feels like you can come to thetable too, no matter if you got
the experience or not, becausewe, you know, like it may not,
(20:25):
that idea may not be accepted,but the fact is like you're
missing out on so many greatideas that could be implemented
and they don't have to be reallybig.
Right, If you open up that doorand like people feel like they
can come to you.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
That is so important to open up that dialogue in any
kind of system that we're in.
And I had an experience onetime and I mean not just one
time, but this is one example-of it where I think that the
service industry actually needsto be trained everywhere.
If you're dealing with people,you need to be trained in
neurodivergence, because I wasin LA at a coffee shop and I
(21:08):
just ordered my coffee and, asan autistic individual who
doesn't oftentimes look atpeople, because when I'm in a
very closed space or whatever, Ican't hear you and talk to you
at the same time and look at youat the same time, it's kind of
a thing so I just I guess I waslooking somewhere else and I
ordered and she said, excuse me,are you talking to me?
(21:31):
And I went, yeah, and she said,well, I didn't know that
because you sure weren't lookingat me and I just thought, wow,
I mean, is that where we are?
That people are just going tojudge, because there are so many
people with invisibledifferences or disabilities and
there's you don't know who'sstanding across from you.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So it's about meeting people where they are instead
of meeting them in judgment.
I think that they should betrained in that.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
No, and that's huge.
I mean everyone really shouldbe trained in neurodivergent
behavior or you know mentalhealth on a deeper level.
You know, especially in theworkplace, any type of workplace
.
I feel like supervisorsespecially need that training
the most, because that's itusually trickles down from the
(22:25):
top down, you know, and it can,like leaders that lead by
example with empathy are some ofthe best leaders out there.
Yeah, it's going to be difficultto have these private companies
to adopt this, but I believethere needs to be something done
.
There are businesses out therethat provide that and do an
(22:48):
excellent job at teaching thosethings, but I believe that some
of their systems are a bitcomplex and it just feels like
overwhelming.
If you could do that in like amore simplistic way, you know,
especially, you know, for thosecompanies that want to do it.
And then for me, like Ipersonally am leaning more
(23:11):
towards this is like there needsto be some like accountability
for these companies that arejust being neglectful of other
people and and theseneurodivergent workers that are
working, coming like like, sayme, getting on that fork truck,
like they should have at leasthad a screening or a
(23:32):
questionnaire that said do youhave ADHD?
And like where are you at onthat spectrum, so that at least
they did their part in doingthat, because, like to me,
that's mental health negligence,like you're putting someone in
a position to do somethingdangerous that could not only
(23:55):
hurt them or hurt other people.
You know especially drivingheavy machinery.
You know how many accidentshappen in America on the
highways.
People may have aneurodivergency, especially ADHD
, and they're just trying torush because they don't have,
like, this ability to slow down.
These companies need to be ableto do that, you know, like part
(24:18):
of their screening process.
It just needs to get better.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I was wondering about , because you said that there
was a cost to ignoringneurodivergence in the workplace
.
Is that what you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, because you're looking at now you're taking
these people that you see areburdens, that you see are like
outliers or they're justproblematic you know.
So you don't wanna.
The best thing you can do is doyour best to deal with them,
that's it.
You're not trying to understandthem, you're not trying to talk
to them, you're not trying tosee them as human beings that
(24:54):
need that have help.
And when, when you start tounderstand them like if you give
somebody, like you're at thetime of day, and you work with
them and you work through theirissues?
and your understanding and youdo do that to the best of your
ability that worker will staywith your company.
They'll do so much more foryour company especially when you
(25:17):
allow them to be themselves.
There's a cost there, like whenit comes to like competing and
having that competitive edge.
You need people that thinkoutside the box, need people
that are creative, that come,and we are those people and you
(25:48):
probably have everybody that youneed already on your workforce.
You just need to my.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, I think that kids, not just teachers, need
more training, but peers.
If they had like a one on one,you know, you take a typical and
you match them up with aneurotypical and you have to be
friends with them and you haveto figure it out, and you have
classes where you learn aboutneurodivergence when they're
that young, I mean I just thinkthat it's really important to do
(26:18):
that.
I did have another questionabout the workplace.
If you are at an interview andI've always wondered this do you
tell people your futureemployer from the beginning that
you have ADHD?
Or do you think that you shouldlike slay the interview, go a
couple months, you know, justrock it and then gradually start
(26:42):
telling them?
You know what, I have ADHD andI might need some accommodations
.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Depends on the individual and you know where
they're at because.
But for me I would say it fromthe beginning Like I want them
to know upfront that you know Idon't see it as a problem.
But these are some of thethings, some of these issues
that I can, because by law,companies are required to give
(27:07):
you reasonable accommodations.
They don't have to like build aquiet room for you or whatever,
but they can allow you to haveheadphones and allow you to have
extra breaks if you need thosethings, you know, especially
when it comes to burnout youknow other things like that.
You know that are reasonableaccommodations.
(27:27):
The only caveat is some somecompanies will do require a
medical, a doctor, saying thatyou do have whatever you have.
Um, and you can even do thatwithout having adhd.
Like say, if you don't want tolike disclose that you have adhd
(27:48):
, say that you just talk aboutthe symptoms to say, well, I
struggle with this and get adoctor's note if you need to,
because, like they're going tofind out later on down the line.
Anyways, that's where a lot ofthe burnout comes from.
Is like masking who you are islike you got to do the same job
that everyone else is doing andthen you got to add on that that
(28:10):
behavior.
You have to do the same amountof work but double the amount of
energy, because you're sittingthere masking all day long and
pretending that you know andtrying to figure out a problem.
You know that most people orother people don't have a
problem with you know what I'msaying.
So it's.
And then you feel, then you'vegot to overcome that feeling of
(28:32):
guilt of like, oh, I'm not smartenough or I'm not as good as
them, because you're allautomatically going to compare
yourself to other people.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I mask all day when I'm out in the world.
That's what I do, and it isexhausting.
And it's hard to let people seewhat, who you really are.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
No, I totally get that, but it's like it's so
freeing for me just to not careif, like you know, especially,
but it comes from myself andthat acceptance is like you know
, um, you know, I beat myself alot up, a lot because I forgot
something that I normallyremember.
Like how could you forget?
You're an idiot?
But now it's like I've come tothat acceptance, like well, you
(29:10):
forgot that happened, right, youknow that's supposed to.
I'm surprised it doesn't happenmore often, like you're
actually doing good.
So when you like switch, switchthat mindset of like okay, this
is who I am, this is how mybrain is, there's nothing wrong
with that.
These are the things that I dowell, that you know other people
(29:33):
wish they had you know, likethat you know other people wish
they had.
You know, like, like I can, Ican make my own business.
I'm creative, like I've justgot to work on the follow
through.
Like that, justice, sensitivityfor me is like such a passion
and a drive that it's like Iwant to spend the rest of my
life trying to do somethingabout that.
(29:54):
So I've already got my purposeyou know a lot of people's
purpose in life is like thething that they look for and
they think it's money, becauseit's like society tells them
that they got to be rich, theygot to have a position of power,
they got to have a wife and Xamount of kids and this amount
of cars and like you get allthose things and even studies
(30:17):
say those things.
Like that people aren't anyhappier.
The amount that you're likerelatively happy is like around
seventy five, eighty thousanddollars.
Anything above that doesn'treally affect, doesn't move the
needle.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Like you're saying.
I mean purpose is the reasonwhy I do this and this is what
makes me happy.
And ADHDers have the mostnonlinear way of thinking.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yeah, empath.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And nothing is in a straight line which allows us to
have this intuitive way ofthinking.
And you've tapped into thecreative minds that we have.
How would you help someone withADHD tap into that creativity
to be able to take their life tothe next level?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, just thinking about where you would like to be
in the next five years.
What would that dream look likefor you?
This is something that helpedme in the beginning was, like
you know.
So, really visualize what, whatyou would let, what that life
would look like, what, whatyou'd be able to do and then
create, like you know, um andthis is something that, um, I
(31:24):
got from this book it's like patflynn, will it fly you?
You take a piece of paper likethis and blank piece of paper
and you divide it into quadrantsand then you put in the four
quadrants that like of your lifethat you care the most about.
Like one is like mental health,you know.
The other is like physicalhealth and family and and, and,
(31:48):
like you know, finances.
You really write out what, whatthat would look like in each,
each quadrant, you know.
So you really write out whatthat would look like in each
quadrant, you know.
So you really define yourfuture and you kind of like you
work backwards to figure out howare you going to get to that
goal.
Like, is each step that I'mtaking now leading me towards
(32:09):
that goal?
It doesn't have to be astraight, straight away, but am
I getting better, you know, andfigure out which coagulants the
best.
The most important for me thatwas the mental health that was.
I was like ADHD and you knowthat developed into a podcast,
uh, about ADHD in the workplace.
So it's like really finding outlike what you want in life,
(32:33):
where you would, where yourdream would be, because, like
you can, you can build your lifearound that dream.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
I was going to ask you about dream making.
You know, because sometimes wecan feel so beat down and you
talk about that with depressionand things like that and so many
times and I know this for afact that there are people out
there that really would not havethought that I would have been
successful at all and I reallyalways I've created vision
(33:05):
boards.
I've pictured, like you said,it's very visual for us.
I think we need that visual andI think it's really important
that we just stay focused andnot hear those outside things,
because so many people can beour worst enemies Our own
definitions of ourselves can beour own worst enemy and not
allow those things to infiltratewho we really are and be able
(33:27):
to allow our creativity tobecome this amazing person that
I know that we were destined tobe.
So you know, how do people withADHD stay on that track, stay
focused on it with all thatnoise around them and be able to
reach the dreams that they want?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, I feel like one of the most important is the
people in your life Like eitherhave somebody that's aligned
with your goals and you can worktogether or hire a coach, like
an ADHD coach or whatever coachthat you feel is going to put
you in that spotlight, becauseno one's going to motivate you
(34:10):
the way somebody else that isbeing paid to motivate you
Because you can't motivateyourself like that way you.
Then there's going to be thosedoubts.
You know you've lived yourwhole life persevering through
those doubts.
Those doubts just don't don'tdisappear.
You know, if you've had a fewdays, or you know a couple
(34:30):
months, of like, good vibes andyour mindset shifts, it's, it's
going.
You know your brain's thoughtthis way for so long and you've
got to work through that.
And you know it's, it's justpart of that, that mechanism
that protects you.
So you've got to have somethingthat that can pull you up when
you're down, when you get down,because life is going to happen
(34:53):
and those doubts are going tocome.
You know I still get doubts tothis day.
You know they show up, usuallyin the morning and they're like
I don't know if you should bedoing this.
This is a lot of work and likeyou're not seeing like immediate
success or like something thatyou know we define as success in
the moment, whether that's likemaking a lot of money or
(35:15):
getting a lot of clients orwhatever that looks like.
No, the success is like you didbetter than yesterday, like you
got to look at what you did doversus what you're not doing,
and coaches can really help youbring that, bring that part,
that bring that side of you out,that you can have more
confidence in yourself.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I just want to go here for a second because this
is really interesting.
You know, we both have ourpodcasts, we're both ADHD and
we're having a regularconversation.
And you know, I mean, how do wedo this, how do people do this
and stay in the conversationinstead of get our minds mixed
up with everything that aregoing on in the room?
(35:57):
But you and I are having aconversation, we're able to do
it.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, it's about active listening, you know.
So it's something that you knowtakes practice and takes time,
but like the best way that youcan do that is well, there's two
different ways, but like theeasier way would be if I want to
engage in that conversation andwhat you're saying is like I
need to pay attention to it.
(36:22):
So I can like, so you can givean active loop of feedback, so
like, if you said something andlike I need to verify it by
saying, okay, let me let me likestate a couple points and then
ask of what they said and thenask, okay, am I getting that
(36:42):
right?
You know so they'll, they'llexplain it back to you if, like,
you got it right or you knowwhat you missed.
So you get kind of like even abetter explanation and even be
honest, like say lookexplanation.
And even be honest, like say,look, my brain was somewhere
else.
You know it does that I haveADHD.
Could you please repeat whatyou just said?
(37:03):
Like I'm sorry, I wasn't tryingto ignore you, because people
aren't going to get mad that youdidn't hear them if you tell
them why.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Yeah, we're constantly trying to figure out
workarounds in everything thatwe do in this world.
So I mean that's really goodand because we have no choice
but to figure out ways tofunction in systems that were
never made for us to begin with,honestly.
So we're always trying to kickin that creativity and try to
(37:31):
figure it out and use thatintuitive nature that I think
that we have.
Let's be honest, the typicalworld is not going to bend, it's
just not going to.
Oh yeah, I want to take amoment and talk about your book,
because I think that your bookreally is bringing out some of
that stuff.
It's getting into thatunderlying piece of who we are
(37:53):
as ADHD individuals.
The Self-Discovery Journal forAdults with ADHD because, you
know, it looks at the tools forthose of us who want to uncover
who we really are.
And what I love most is howit's designed for us to go at
our own pace.
That's perfect and no pressureand honest self-reflection.
(38:16):
And you've created prompts thatdon't just scratch the surface.
They invite us to go where weprobably normally wouldn't even
go.
One thing that really stood outto me is how you flipped the
script and you kind of touchedon this earlier in your way of
thinking, which I like.
Instead of asking what's wrongwith me, you take the blame off
(38:38):
of yourself and you place it onwhere did this come from?
And I think that that's genius,because it removes the blame
and invites curiosity instead ofshame.
So can you talk more about thatthought process and designing
this journal and why you thinkself-talk is such a huge and
it's underrated?
Speaker 2 (38:57):
and we all have it.
It's just so hidden, it'sburied by the system that we're
in.
So it was like really openingthat up and you know, the
thought process behind it waslike I started to see these
details of me that were, youknow, emotionally, traumatically
(39:21):
based.
You know I wanted to to to givepeople an opportunity to be
able to, you know, explore thatin a way it didn't require you
to just read a book.
It was like here's, here'ssomewhere where you can write it
down, take your time with it,come back to it if you need to.
You know so that they becauseonce I started doing that with
(39:42):
myself, like it unlocked so manythings that I thought were true
about myself, that wereactually something that were
just stories that I was tellingto myself.
It's understanding thatnarrative and breaking that
narrative to a degree that youcan start to be like, start to
question, like some of thethings that you do, and start to
see value in other things, likeit's not me being broken, the
(40:05):
blame's not on me, it's justwhere, where do you think this
started?
It's about getting to the rootcause of every problem, like
every, and a lot of us don'tlook at the emotional aspect of
it and the fact that it happenedin childhood, like how could
that affect me today, Like thatwas so long ago and, honestly,
like there's so many things thatstill affect me today and if I
(40:29):
don't, if I'm not've neverreally thought about that, I
mean, I know, my brain was bornthis way.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I know my brain was wired this way for as long as I
can remember, but I had a lot oftrauma too, so and I mean it
did affect me.
And one of the questions inyour book that really hit me
right where I live, I guess, iswhen I feel intense guilt, is it
about a current moment or anold wound?
(41:12):
And I, just as soon as I readthat, I went ouch, I was like,
yeah, I mean that's what you'retalking about here.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Yeah, it's about that , because all of us experience
trauma in one way or another,and trauma a lot.
Most people, including myself,they thought that trauma was
physical, was it was like, or anextreme loss, like a death,
sudden death.
And yes, those are traumatic,but that's not the only traumas
(41:45):
that are out there and some ofthem are smaller and they just
don't register.
Neglect is a trauma.
Neglect can actually be moretraumatic than a physical blow
or whatever.
You know, I dealt with a lot ofneglect growing up from my dad
and that really affected me andmy relationships moving forward
(42:07):
and the person that I became soand there was like, even still
like cause I could.
I was always trying to make mydad proud of me.
He would never notice, um, Idon't know if he he just didn't
have the capability of sayingsomething or didn't think that
he could because of hisupbringing.
There was always a resentmentthere because of that.
(42:28):
But even now it's like anybodythat talks down to me or says
things about me that you knoware negative, like I really took
to heart and it angered me tothat point and like because it
went back to that me not beinggood enough for my dad, you know
, and so I was able to see thatas like wow, that's what, why it
(42:52):
triggers me, not that itshouldn't, but it shouldn't have
that like profound effect on meit sounds like it fueled you to
want to be different than yourdad yeah, and and even even
changing the dynamic with mylike, I love my dad and you know
um, it's just we can'tcommunicate a lot.
So one thing that I did was Itold my mom about it, because
(43:16):
that that was that was affectingme to a degree Cause, like I
want, I still want to have thatconnection with my dad.
But I understand like he's soisolated Like dad.
But I understand like he's soisolated like he rarely answers
the phone, like only when I texthim will he answer and it's
usually me initiating it theywere.
They gave me the suggestion toto send this text.
(43:38):
That said, I haven't heard fromyou in a while.
It'd be nice to hear from youyou know so and then I put like
a a little smiley face emoji onthe end To make it light, and he
ended up, you know, saying thathe'd call and he did call and
we had a good conversation.
So it was like being even beingopen for myself, if I want that
(44:00):
and here's an opportunity.
You know there was still somefear there that you know he
wouldn't respond to that, but atleast I'm doing everything that
I can to pull him in to thisrelationship because you know
he's part of my family.
You know I'll accept himwherever he's at, but I would
(44:21):
like for him, you know us to tryto repair that in some way plus
I feel, like he's got answersfor me that you know I can ask
about his childhood once, oncehe's once I've gotten to a place
so I can figure more more aboutme and him, you know, and and
hopefully maybe that'll open thedoor for him to do some
(44:43):
exploring, but when he's's ready, I'm not going to.
Just I wanted to ask that.
In that case I was like no,this is too soon.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
You know, I think that we own so much that isn't
ours.
And you know, shame is such abig thing and how we internalize
things like that.
And it's this balancing act ofnot trusting ourselves but
allowing others to have powerover us too when we're trying to
navigate the world, and we needthat at times.
(45:11):
So, trying to get a coach whileyou're trying to figure out hey
, I didn't trust my dad, how amI going to trust this person in
front of me?
But I need somebody to help menavigate the world.
I mean, I think that that'ssomething that I think that we
all have to deal with too.
I have external brains that'swhat I call them and there is so
(45:31):
much of my past that affects menot being able to trust people
to allow them to help menavigate the world.
But I do need that.
I mean, have you ever gonethere in your life, like you
know, with the trust and notbeing able to really go to
people and advocate because ofthe past?
Speaker 2 (45:51):
I mean it does have a slight effect, but like I just,
I just got to trust the processand that's my phrase.
Yes, and go through through itwith.
You know, no matter whathappened.
It's this thing called benefitof the doubt, you know.
So giving people the benefit ofthe doubt until they prove
otherwise, it's like a trust.
(46:18):
That's more that peoplegenerally want to be good, they
generally want to be happy andthey generally want to be free.
And that's where I see morepeople is like they're just
carrying around this trauma.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
There are a lot of strategies out there for us to
be able to cope better in theworld.
I talked a little bit about themovement breaks that I would
have, where I would clean, goand write and then get up, maybe
get on the treadmill, then I'dgo read, you know, and those
movement breaks really did helpme stay fresh with my brain.
(46:48):
So are there other strategiesthat people can use?
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Yeah, it's just, you know like getting up and moving
around is an amazing one If youcan like go on a walk, or you
know like, especially in themorning, you know when you get
up, because getting out innature is totally like,
especially if you can getoutside your head and try to be
in the moment where you're likeI'm not going to think about
(47:14):
what I have to do, I'm not goingto think about what I didn't do
, I'm going to try to be righthere listening to the birds and
like feeling the wind and likethat's kind of you know weird
how like the wind just touchesyou and like we don't even
notice it.
And but when we we come backbecause there's so much in the
present moment, especially whenyou go around nature it's like
(47:35):
so refreshing.
It's no matter where I'm at.
I got always like breathing inthe air and knowing like I've
got everything that I need righthere with me like that I will
ever need to have.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Well, you're touched on grounding techniques.
I mean grounding techniques areamazing, Like I.
I forget exactly how it is, butit's something like I see five
things, I smell four things, Iwhatever.
And you like you know you feltthe wind on you.
It's something that's bringingyou back to center.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Yeah, I, whatever, and you, like you know you felt
the wind on you.
It's something that's bringingyou back to center.
Yeah, definitely, and with thebreathing too, it's it's.
There's such a power to thebreath, you know.
Or, or, if you need, take abreak and like, give yourself
like a snack.
You'll be able to scroll onTikToks for five minutes.
You know, set a timer for that,you know.
But don't like start out withthat because you might get
(48:30):
distracted.
But give that to yourself as agift.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
I personally, I take notes all day and have reminders
, because if I don't, I can havethe most amazing thought, but
then I can have another thoughtwhich makes me lose the amazing,
amazing thought that I just had.
So I really do, I carry myphone and I'm like I take notes
(48:56):
whenever I think of something.
I'll even do that at nightsometimes and have those
reminders too, and it couldappear that we have a bad memory
.
I think at times because I'mlike OK, now where did I put
that?
But it's because I'm not eventhinking about where I put that
when I was putting that there.
You know, I'm thinking of 50other things and I'm not really
(49:20):
in the present.
So I like you constantlytalking about being in the
present.
I think that that's reallyimportant.
I actually have a friend thattook medicine to slow down her
brain, to quiet her brain, andshe's very ADHD and she went off
of it because she liked thenoise in her brain.
(49:40):
And she just she couldn't standhow quiet that really was.
So I found that interesting.
But I think that having thatmany tabs open, like I did talk
about, even though it can appearlike I'm forgetful, it does
really help me function and keepmyself fresh and my creative
juices flowing all the time.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
I believe it's just the sheer volume of thoughts and
we just don't have the capacityfor the amount of creativity
that our brain creates.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Well, what is mindfulness-based strength
practice and what is that inaction?
Speaker 2 (50:19):
So, yeah, that's something that's like one of the
core tenets of what I coach,and mindfulness-based strengths
practice is mindfulness withcharacter strengths.
So we all have this idea ofcharacter strengths.
That could be forgiveness, thatcould be creativity, social
intelligence there's 24, in thisparticular practice, there's 24
(50:41):
character strengths you knowand you have some that are
signature strengths, so they'relike the top five or the ones
that you easily access.
So for me, that would becreativity, critical thinking,
love of learning and forgivenessand honesty.
So like that shows up in me asa person.
(51:02):
That kind of defines who I am.
Like you can, you can start tosee that and and other people,
um, like you, you're, you'recreative, like I can see that,
and it's about strength spottingand other people you know and
you persevere as well.
So that's one of you, one ofthe strengths that comes, comes
to life.
It's being able to spot thosethings in a mindful way.
(51:24):
So if you're just focused onstrengths, you might tend to
overuse them.
A lot of people just eitheroveruse or underuse their
strengths.
So you can kind of see thestrengths in other people.
That person shows a goodleadership.
Well, they're showingleadership, but they're very
overusing it because they'rebossing people around and think
(51:46):
they need to control things.
So they have that strengththere.
It's just rubbing people thewrong way.
So if they added moremindfulness into that, you know
they'd be able to adjust thatand it's also bringing that into
the mindfulness as well.
So it's like bringing thatcuriosity into mindfulness,
which is almost a core tenant ofit.
(52:06):
But you can also bringforgiveness in there.
How can I forgive myself foracting that way?
You know, how can I be forgiveothers?
You know that guy that cut meoff in traffic.
Maybe you know just thinking ofmyself and like people make
mistakes all the time.
Maybe he's got somewhere to go,maybe he got up late.
You know it's like you knowhe's, he's just trying to get to
(52:26):
where he needs.
Maybe he's got somewhere to go.
Maybe he got up late.
You know, it's like you knowhe's just trying to get to where
he needs.
Maybe he's got ADHD and he justcan't help himself.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
It sounds to me, because I didn't know about this
, but it sounds to me like it'sabout meeting people right where
they are instead of meetingwanting people to know where you
are and you know, butunderstanding where you both are
, and without judgment.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
It's about developing arelationship with yourself and
then that relationship, becausewhen you put out strengths into
any environment, you know ittends to grow and radiate out
into the other people.
Because when you start tocompliment people on their
strengths, people love to hearcompliments, especially when how
(53:11):
they're showing up as, like man, you're doing a really good job
, or it took a lot of courage tosay the things that you said,
or you're man, you just showedreal leadership there and I got
wanted to let you know.
It means a lot to me thatyou've showed up as a team
player as well, because that's areal leader, so important.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
People just want to be validated.
They want to be recognized.
It's so simple.
I do want to make this a littlebit more personal right now,
because you do talk about ADHD,individuals with addiction and
depression.
So I was wondering if you couldtalk more about that with your
own story.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Yeah, depression has been something that's been with
me my whole life.
You know, I really thought fora long time that depression was
just like a fear and it is, butit was.
It minimizes, you know, a lotof these words we minimize like
I'm just, I'm feeling anxious orI'm feeling stressed out, you
know when, when there's actuallysomething going on there deeper
.
So with the depression, like Ifeel like it came from that same
(54:12):
place of like neglect and likenot being worthy of love.
So I would always seek out lovein in different ways, like that
weren't really love, it wasjust either lust or
self-gratification.
So it would be, you know, likeI would have to have a
relationship, an intimaterelationship, in order to feel
(54:33):
like I was being loved, like Iwas you know and I.
But it was never enough becauseit wasn't an actual the love
that I actually needed.
Through mindfulness I was ableto.
So I was getting.
I got pretty depressed becausepeople weren't calling me and
checking up on me or texting meto see how I am.
It really affected me because Iwas reaching out and it just
(54:56):
seemed like I wasn't gettingthat in return.
So it just felt like, oh,that's my value there People
don't really care because I'mnot worthy of being cared about.
Well, I'm practicingmindfulness right now.
You know I am worthy that I am,so that I do self-love and I do
care about myself because I'mcontinuing this practice and I'm
(55:16):
trying to get better with itand with me.
Depression is about, or anyfeeling really is like, not
trying to stop it, not trying toavoid it, not trying to push it
down, but just sitting thereand exploring that emotion and
where it's come from, or justpushing through and doing the
activity or the thing that Idon't want to do when I'm
(55:39):
depressed.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
Is that what you do when you coach people is help
them try to find the root?
Speaker 2 (55:43):
Yeah, try to, you know, and not all the time it's
going to be, there's going to bean answer, but sometimes there
will be.
But it's about that exploration.
It's about sitting in thatemotion and being okay and not
giving it the power.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
That's good.
Yeah, Not giving it the powerwhich, by the way, with
addiction.
What about addiction?
Is there a connection betweenADHD and addiction?
Is there a connection?
Speaker 2 (56:05):
between ADHD and addiction.
Yeah, I feel like they're very,very closely linked.
There's a lot of overlyingattributes, so like one is like
the impulsivity.
There's a lot of impulsivebehavior with a lot of addicts
and that comes from and that'salso with ADHD, because we want,
we have these strong emotionsand we want to have this
(56:28):
something to get us out of there, and we don't have that, that
um prefrontal cortex that'sdeveloped.
So when a thought pops in, wejust we just act.
You know there's no like okay,you need to think about this and
like maybe this isn't, you know, run this by somebody.
Yeah, that's kind of what theyteach you in recovery is to like
(56:49):
just run this by somebody,especially if it's an emotional
decision.
And that inward unmanageability, which they call that in
(57:09):
recovery, is also that emotionaldysregulation.
So it's like my emotions can goanywhere and that makes me
unmanageable because like Icould react in a negative way
just based on the way somebodytalked to me.
So it's like understanding thatwhen I made that connection I
was like, wow, so I'm not, likeyou know, a screwed up person
that's just got bad morals.
I just it's just the way mybrain's's just it's a lot of,
(57:33):
you know, work relatedstrategies, whether that's
working from home or going toyour job, and like kind of the
(57:54):
life around that, and like howdo you navigate these things?
I also have special guests onthere that talk about a wide
variety of things.
Speaker 1 (58:04):
Okay, well, I really hope that our listeners will
check that out.
How do people get a hold of you?
What's your website?
Speaker 2 (58:10):
Yeah, my website is youradhdcom adhdguycom, and I'm
also put to get giving away thatfree discovery journal, so you
can get an e-copy of that atyouradhdguycom.
It's a simple way to reflectand reset and get to know
yourself better on a deeperlevel.
(58:30):
Like we talked about, and foranyone ready to take things
deeper, I've got a five sessioncoaching program called the
Connection Blueprint, designedto help men over 40 move out of
isolation, build confidence andcreate real connection in their
lives, and you can also findthat at youradhdguycom.
It's been grateful to connectwith you and anyone listening.
Speaker 1 (58:53):
Well, Ron, thank you for coming on here and speaking
my language.
Thank you for showing up for themisunderstood and the
misdiagnosed.
If you're listening and you'veever felt like your brain didn't
fit the mold, I want you toknow there is no mold.
You are not too much.
You're not broken, you are notlazy.
You are wired for depth anddiscovery, that curiosity that
(59:16):
we talked about.
Make sure to reach out to Ronif you need help navigating this
world with a neurodivergentmind, and if you love what
you've heard, hit subscribe,leave us a review and share this
episode with someone who mightneed to hear that they are
enough exactly as they are.
So until next time, be kind toyour brain and bold with your
(59:37):
voice.
Remember there is purpose inthe pain and hope in the journey
, and we will see you next time.
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